January 18, 2026 • 10 mins
Jason Pine of Newstalk ZB looks at what happens next regarding the All Blacks' coaching saga.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to the Muster on Hakanui. Jason Pine, host
of Weekend Sport on Newstalk ZEB, joins us after rather
hectic week in the New Zealand sporting landscape. Piny, good
afternoon and welcome to the Muster.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thanks and a year nothing like a nothing like a
slow start to the sporting year. We're not getting We're
not getting that this year. Biggest sports story in terms
of reaction, not only on our show, but across social media,
across the news sites, across the entire sporting landscape. Biggest
one I can remember for at least a decade, the
(00:40):
departing aways with Scott Robertson on Thursday. So yeah, lots
to lots of dissect and still probably a lot to
come as we as we try to work out what's next.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So what, Yeah, what's actually the problem here? Is this
a problem though just for New Zealand rugby stemming from
the coaching person our right through to the hierarchy.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's hard to really know for sure without being inside
the environment. But look, put it this way, Andy, it's
beyond the scoreboard, right because seven losses in twenty seven
test matches, that's a winning percentage of around seventy five
percent across Scott Robertson's time as All Black Sea coach.
Only Rassi Erasmus of South Africa has a better winning
(01:23):
percentage among international coaches. So I think a lot of
people are saying, hey, well, how can you get rid
of a guy who's got effectively a seventy five percent
winning record? So it has to go digger than that.
And I listened carefully to David Kirk's press conference on
Thursday when he was answering questions about this decision, and
a couple of words stood out. One was trajectory. They
(01:44):
don't believe they're on the right three. And then one
was a phrase when he said, this team is not
on track, so clearly within the high performance environment and
certainly within the playing group. Off the end of what
I understand was a pretty scathing review at the end
of the year, end of view tour, or the end
of the interview tour, they've decided change is needed if
(02:05):
they are to get back on track and to and
to send the trajectory in the in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Do you think player power has something to do with us?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I think that's the wrong phrase. I think the players
certainly have something to do with. But you talk about
player power often you get the negative connotation of of,
you know, the lunatics running the asylum. If you like,
you know that the players are there to play. They're
not the one to select the coach. They do what
the coach sets out for them. But these are high
(02:37):
performing all blacks Andy who have been in and around
this team, many of them for close to a decade,
and they know when things are not right, and that
clearly is is the message that's come through. Depending on
who you who you believe, and who you listen to.
I heard our colleague at tv ANDS, Andrew Savill, say
(02:57):
today that he understood that ninety percent of the playing
group we're not in favor of Scott Robertson continuing not
in favor of the way he was running the team. Look,
when you've lost ninety percent of your dressing room, there
really isn't a way forward. So look, play of power,
I think has been a fairly convenient phrase to be
(03:19):
thrown around for those who want to see something sinister
and all of this. Those players have a limited window
to be successful in their rugby careers and the last
thing they want is for that ambition to be in
any way stymied by the coaching that they are receiving.
So yeah, I think certainly the player feedback formed a
(03:40):
large part of this decision. But to say that that
somehow the players pushed their coach out is factually incorrect
because you know, if the board had wanted to, if
David Kirk had wanted to, they could have you know,
said okay, well look we take your feedback on board
that we're going to stick with our man. They didn't
do that. So yeah, it formed a part of it.
(04:01):
But I don't like the phrase player power.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, you think there was there was only three
losses last year, but the concern seems to be the
manner of the losses. Would that be fair?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeap, very fair. Look, I think the hiding in Wellington
and that's you know, the only way you can describe
it to South Africa was you know, that really laid
bare a lot of problems within that side. And also
really the almost afterwards that was almost as concerning, when
you know, coach and captain in front of the media
(04:33):
were just completely unable to explain what had happened. And
then you know, the lost to England at the back
end of the year. I think that was almost like
the last straw, if you like. Look, if they won
that game and completed a Grand Slam, would would raise
to still be there. I guess you could say maybe,
but I think by that stage things have got to
(04:56):
a point where, you know where there were serious question marks.
So yes, the other loss, of course, was a way
in Argentina. Look, this team had some very good wins
under Razor, the first Test against South Africa up in Ackland,
a terrific performance, you know, twos over Ireland, including a
really really good performance in Dublin in twenty twenty four.
(05:17):
But I think what we've seen, Andy is that the
results have papered over some pretty large cracks in that
All Blacks kingdom. And when those cracks appear, it's often
the man at the top of the tree who has
to part to allow them to be fixed. And that's
exactly what's happened here.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Now we start the merry go around regarding the next
coaching person. Now, Ponty, I mean Jamie Joseph is the
name you're hearing bandied around there trying to get Tony
Brown involved with him. Though he sounds like he's locked
down in South Africa. He got very kind of Joe Schmid.
I mean, there's a lot of good coaches out there,
and I don't know where you really start to go
through this process.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, it's a very good point because there'll be a
hands up for it. There'll be others whose names have
been thrown into the conversation who I'm sure don't have
any real desire to get involved. Just on the Jamie
Joseph one, he appears to be the front runner, But
I feel as though Jamie Joseph without Tony Brown is
a very different proposition from Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown.
(06:20):
They worked, They worked very well, you know, in harmony
with one another. Yeah, I've seen all of the stuff
out of South Africa. I haven't seen anything official from
Tony Brown himself to say I'm definitely staying until twenty
twenty seven and log contracts as we know, and can
get out of them if you want to. In a
(06:40):
funny old way. I think if Tony Brown went to
rasci Erasmus and said, hey, I've got this opportunity to
coach the All Blacks, rasci Erasmus would probably let him go.
You know. He knows Tony Brown, and he knows how
deep Tony Brown's desire is to one day coach the
All Blacks. I've been trying to get inside Tony Brown's
head ever since this happened, and Jamie Joseph's name has
(07:02):
been in and around the conversation, and I really don't
know what he would be thinking. A huge part of him,
I'm sure would think, Okay, well, if I throw my
lot and with Jamie, we're likely to be in the
next Doll Blacks coaching group, something I've always wanted, you know.
That's one way I could go. Or I could stay
with South Africa this juggern ordered world Rugby, try and
(07:22):
win another World Cup in two years and then that
role back at the All Blacks will still be there
for me. So yeah, if it's not Jamie, I quite
like the idea of Dave Rennie being involved. A guy
with international experience at Australia treated dreadfully by Rugby Australia
when he was let go for them to get Eddie
Jones back, and we know what a dumps to fire
that into. So I like the idea of Dave Rennie
(07:44):
being involved. Joe Schmidt clearly has a lot of you know,
a lot of rugby IQ, whether he's the head coach
or just in an around the team. You know, it
won't just be one guy, and it'll be a team
of coaches who who have to work in harmony to
make sure that the playing group are getting clear messaging,
(08:04):
honest communication and to be fair, the buck has to
stop at their head coach and I'm not sure that
was always the case internally anyway, when conversations were to
be had at the All Blacks underscore Robertson just to.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wrap up Piney, the Black Caps securing the first ever
ODI Series win in India donated attempts. We can underestimate
how big this is for the cricketing landscape.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Amazing news to wake up to this morning that the
New Zealand side had done this. And you know, winning
a One Day Series in India is hard enough anyway,
you know, no New Zealand team's ever done it in
the previous seven attempts. But to do it with a
severely undermanned side, a hugely inexperienced side rarely you know,
(08:48):
against a pretty decent Indian outfit on Indian tracks is remarkable. Really,
It's a massive feather in their caps. When a lot
of those players as well, and you must remember have
Half and I on the T twenty World Cup. The
one day series was almost a bit of an inconvenience really,
but they went over there and look, you have to
make mention of Darrell Mitchell and what he has done
(09:10):
in the series. Two big hundreds and another score of
eighty four, a strike rate of over one hundred. You know,
a complete all purpose cricketer for New Zealand, Daryl Mitchell.
So yeah, massive feather in the cap of those who
are involved. Now we turn our attention to the five
match T twenty series against India and the T twenty
(09:30):
World Cup to come. But this has to be a
huge confidence boost for the black Caps, those who are
staying and the coaching stuff as well as they look
look ahead to the World Cup in a month or so.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Jason Pine of News Talks Be Weekend Sports Hosts. We
can hear you amusing tonight as well from seven pm.
Always appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, love it, Andy, You look forward to catching up
again soon.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Laugh out loud with.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Ad Proud because life on the land can be a
laughing matter. Brought to us by sheerwell Danta working to
help the livest farmer.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I normally knock on the fridge door before I open it,
just in case I see a salad dressing. Here's a
dad joke. My name's Andy Mue. You've been listening to
the Muster one Hakannui. We're all over and done with
for the afternoon, of course, that Peter's Genetics. Enjoy the
afternoon podcast going up shortly. See you tomorrow one o'clock, sir,
Welcome back to the Muster on Hakanui. Jason Pine, host
of Weekend Sport on Newstalk ZEB, joins us after rather
hectic week in the New Zealand sporting landscape. Piny, good
afternoon and welcome to the Muster.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thanks and a year nothing like a nothing like a
slow start to the sporting year. We're not getting We're
not getting that this year. Biggest sports story in terms
of reaction, not only on our show, but across social media,
across the news sites, across the entire sporting landscape. Biggest
one I can remember for at least a decade, the
(00:40):
departing aways with Scott Robertson on Thursday. So yeah, lots
to lots of dissect and still probably a lot to
come as we as we try to work out what's next.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So what, Yeah, what's actually the problem here? Is this
a problem though just for New Zealand rugby stemming from
the coaching person our right through to the hierarchy.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's hard to really know for sure without being inside
the environment. But look, put it this way, Andy, it's
beyond the scoreboard, right because seven losses in twenty seven
test matches, that's a winning percentage of around seventy five
percent across Scott Robertson's time as All Black Sea coach.
Only Rassi Erasmus of South Africa has a better winning
(01:23):
percentage among international coaches. So I think a lot of
people are saying, hey, well, how can you get rid
of a guy who's got effectively a seventy five percent
winning record? So it has to go digger than that.
And I listened carefully to David Kirk's press conference on
Thursday when he was answering questions about this decision, and
a couple of words stood out. One was trajectory. They
(01:44):
don't believe they're on the right three. And then one
was a phrase when he said, this team is not
on track, so clearly within the high performance environment and
certainly within the playing group. Off the end of what
I understand was a pretty scathing review at the end
of the year, end of view tour, or the end
of the interview tour, they've decided change is needed if
(02:05):
they are to get back on track and to and
to send the trajectory in the in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Do you think player power has something to do with us?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I think that's the wrong phrase. I think the players
certainly have something to do with. But you talk about
player power often you get the negative connotation of of,
you know, the lunatics running the asylum. If you like,
you know that the players are there to play. They're
not the one to select the coach. They do what
the coach sets out for them. But these are high
(02:37):
performing all blacks Andy who have been in and around
this team, many of them for close to a decade,
and they know when things are not right, and that
clearly is is the message that's come through. Depending on
who you who you believe, and who you listen to.
I heard our colleague at tv ANDS, Andrew Savill, say
(02:57):
today that he understood that ninety percent of the playing
group we're not in favor of Scott Robertson continuing not
in favor of the way he was running the team. Look,
when you've lost ninety percent of your dressing room, there
really isn't a way forward. So look, play of power,
I think has been a fairly convenient phrase to be
(03:19):
thrown around for those who want to see something sinister
and all of this. Those players have a limited window
to be successful in their rugby careers and the last
thing they want is for that ambition to be in
any way stymied by the coaching that they are receiving.
So yeah, I think certainly the player feedback formed a
(03:40):
large part of this decision. But to say that that
somehow the players pushed their coach out is factually incorrect
because you know, if the board had wanted to, if
David Kirk had wanted to, they could have you know,
said okay, well look we take your feedback on board
that we're going to stick with our man. They didn't
do that. So yeah, it formed a part of it.
(04:01):
But I don't like the phrase player power.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, you think there was there was only three
losses last year, but the concern seems to be the
manner of the losses. Would that be fair?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeap, very fair. Look, I think the hiding in Wellington
and that's you know, the only way you can describe
it to South Africa was you know, that really laid
bare a lot of problems within that side. And also
really the almost afterwards that was almost as concerning, when
you know, coach and captain in front of the media
(04:33):
were just completely unable to explain what had happened. And
then you know, the lost to England at the back
end of the year. I think that was almost like
the last straw, if you like. Look, if they won
that game and completed a Grand Slam, would would raise
to still be there. I guess you could say maybe,
but I think by that stage things have got to
(04:56):
a point where, you know where there were serious question marks.
So yes, the other loss, of course, was a way
in Argentina. Look, this team had some very good wins
under Razor, the first Test against South Africa up in Ackland,
a terrific performance, you know, twos over Ireland, including a
really really good performance in Dublin in twenty twenty four.
(05:17):
But I think what we've seen, Andy is that the
results have papered over some pretty large cracks in that
All Blacks kingdom. And when those cracks appear, it's often
the man at the top of the tree who has
to part to allow them to be fixed. And that's
exactly what's happened here.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Now we start the merry go around regarding the next
coaching person. Now, Ponty, I mean Jamie Joseph is the
name you're hearing bandied around there trying to get Tony
Brown involved with him. Though he sounds like he's locked
down in South Africa. He got very kind of Joe Schmid.
I mean, there's a lot of good coaches out there,
and I don't know where you really start to go
through this process.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, it's a very good point because there'll be a
hands up for it. There'll be others whose names have
been thrown into the conversation who I'm sure don't have
any real desire to get involved. Just on the Jamie
Joseph one, he appears to be the front runner, But
I feel as though Jamie Joseph without Tony Brown is
a very different proposition from Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown.
(06:20):
They worked, They worked very well, you know, in harmony
with one another. Yeah, I've seen all of the stuff
out of South Africa. I haven't seen anything official from
Tony Brown himself to say I'm definitely staying until twenty
twenty seven and log contracts as we know, and can
get out of them if you want to. In a
(06:40):
funny old way. I think if Tony Brown went to
rasci Erasmus and said, hey, I've got this opportunity to
coach the All Blacks, rasci Erasmus would probably let him go.
You know. He knows Tony Brown, and he knows how
deep Tony Brown's desire is to one day coach the
All Blacks. I've been trying to get inside Tony Brown's
head ever since this happened, and Jamie Joseph's name has
(07:02):
been in and around the conversation, and I really don't
know what he would be thinking. A huge part of him,
I'm sure would think, Okay, well, if I throw my
lot and with Jamie, we're likely to be in the
next Doll Blacks coaching group, something I've always wanted, you know.
That's one way I could go. Or I could stay
with South Africa this juggern ordered world Rugby, try and
(07:22):
win another World Cup in two years and then that
role back at the All Blacks will still be there
for me. So yeah, if it's not Jamie, I quite
like the idea of Dave Rennie being involved. A guy
with international experience at Australia treated dreadfully by Rugby Australia
when he was let go for them to get Eddie
Jones back, and we know what a dumps to fire
that into. So I like the idea of Dave Rennie
(07:44):
being involved. Joe Schmidt clearly has a lot of you know,
a lot of rugby IQ, whether he's the head coach
or just in an around the team. You know, it
won't just be one guy, and it'll be a team
of coaches who who have to work in harmony to
make sure that the playing group are getting clear messaging,
(08:04):
honest communication and to be fair, the buck has to
stop at their head coach and I'm not sure that
was always the case internally anyway, when conversations were to
be had at the All Blacks underscore Robertson just to.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wrap up Piney, the Black Caps securing the first ever
ODI Series win in India donated attempts. We can underestimate
how big this is for the cricketing landscape.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Amazing news to wake up to this morning that the
New Zealand side had done this. And you know, winning
a One Day Series in India is hard enough anyway,
you know, no New Zealand team's ever done it in
the previous seven attempts. But to do it with a
severely undermanned side, a hugely inexperienced side rarely you know,
(08:48):
against a pretty decent Indian outfit on Indian tracks is remarkable. Really,
It's a massive feather in their caps. When a lot
of those players as well, and you must remember have
Half and I on the T twenty World Cup. The
one day series was almost a bit of an inconvenience really,
but they went over there and look, you have to
make mention of Darrell Mitchell and what he has done
(09:10):
in the series. Two big hundreds and another score of
eighty four, a strike rate of over one hundred. You know,
a complete all purpose cricketer for New Zealand, Daryl Mitchell.
So yeah, massive feather in the cap of those who
are involved. Now we turn our attention to the five
match T twenty series against India and the T twenty
(09:30):
World Cup to come. But this has to be a
huge confidence boost for the black Caps, those who are
staying and the coaching stuff as well as they look
look ahead to the World Cup in a month or so.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Jason Pine of News Talks Be Weekend Sports Hosts. We
can hear you amusing tonight as well from seven pm.
Always appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, love it, Andy, You look forward to catching up
again soon.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Laugh out loud with.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Ad Proud because life on the land can be a
laughing matter. Brought to us by sheerwell Danta working to
help the livest farmer.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I normally knock on the fridge door before I open it,
just in case I see a salad dressing. Here's a
dad joke. My name's Andy Mue. You've been listening to
the Muster one Hakannui. We're all over and done with
for the afternoon, of course, that Peter's Genetics. Enjoy the
afternoon podcast going up shortly. See you tomorrow one o'clock, sir,
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