August 11, 2026 • 8 mins
Former MP Jeff Grant looks at what the current happenings in the National Party could mean for the upcoming election.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
I've been walking these streets. Jeff Grant is a former
National EMPA and joins us this afternoon with everything happening
up at the Bee Hive for the wrong reasons for
the National Party. Jeff, Good, afternoon. We've recorded this probably
about twelve thirty, so we're just waiting for an announcement
which is imminent. Look, you've been there and done that.
(00:28):
What is this doing to the National Party brand?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh? This is not useful. You know, eighty nine days
out from an election. If you look at the history
of local parties and change leadership, I've been through a captains.
I think that's been successful. Notice there have been a
lot of dead bodies otherwise, So for that reason, I
(00:53):
think that'll be why the course is taking so long.
Because this is really, in comparison to four weeks ago,
this is much more dangerous territory in terms of surviving
through the election, and it won't be just a matter
whether you keep the current leader and change or more
importantly is how do you deal with the next eighty
nine days?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And that's the thing I suppose. I mean, these voices
of discontent within the party continue to be heard considering
the coalition government looks odds on to continue. So all
can't be well.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
No, I you know, when you think about the reality
of probably the events of the last three weeks. Look,
we all make mistakes, and I don't think any of
them were material. Yes, they went good sort of situations
suddenly decide we're going to have an MP, butte that
(01:47):
we're going to introduce detectives and courts process. This, you know,
makes you question sort of the leadership style. This, this
has been building for us some time, and so whatever
they choose to do is still going to make it
very difficult.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
And that's the issue I suppose with fill this discontent
going on. I mean, if Luxing continues on, he's got
to be assertive of his action regarding those who are
showing all this frustration. I suppose.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah. Look, I think the little Body seems to struggle
on is the difference between governance and being a chief executive,
and not all chief executives transition into a governance role
particularly well. Governance requires leadership that it requires you having
all your team on your side, and when you've got
(02:38):
half your team not on your so it doesn't matter
what you do, you're never going to pull it together.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Now as far as the rural lends. One thing about
Christopher Luction Christopher Luxon is he has been good for
the rural sector. Should we be concerned of say Eric
Stanford and Chris Bishop perhaps guess the top job? What
does that mean? For real?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Without any doubt, the MP has been, you know, putting
quite a focus not just in the National Party but
across all the political parties around the rural scene. And
that's because it's an important part of the economy and
its shine through since Covid onwards. I think that the
PM has in my view, been quite passionate about the
(03:22):
rural sector, which you haven't always seen in the leader
of a political party. And if you shifted to an
urban drift sort of mentality with somebody else then it
does put some resk. But I think without any any
doubt at all, the current PM has been a strong
support of the head culture sector.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I suppose a concerned anything though from an outside of
looking at was Christopher Luxen's comment last week on ZB
talking at reform regarding MP when he hadn't consulted as
caucus saw his party. That's pretty that's pretty disturbing. Well,
concerning would be a better word, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That that couns you somebody operating in a CEO on
a governance leadership role, because if you had, if you
had really good understanding around that whole governance leadership role,
you would know that whenever you say something publicly that
you have your team fully supportive. And the only way
to find out your teams fully supportive is to have
(04:21):
discussed it through a caucus or kidnet process prior to announcing.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Joseph Mooney. Now, when approached by reporters earlier on, you
see'd rather be in this electric electorate where a major
central local government deal is expected to be signed with
today that he's had a lot of skin in the
game with didn't actually give a support behind the Prime minister.
Do we read much under that?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh? Look, asking MPs as they're walking through an airport
concourse where they where they sit between on a particular
issu or a leadership role. I mean, you ain't ever
going to get the perfect answer. I love. I think
Joseph said only two days ago that he was supportive
of the Prime Minister, so I wouldn't read too much
(05:06):
in it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
This won't affect the coalition government though, and the lead
up to the election as such, I mean they can
carry on the way they are currently.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, Yeah, absolutely. The coalition agreements are actually between the parties,
not between the leaders. So if you had to change
the leadership and one of the coalition part parties, that
doesn't change the coalition agreement. They still stand through to
an election day and unless a party decides to pull
it out.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Now you're a national party chief whip for a term
in the nineties just described the role and like the
pressure that the whips will be under today.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, I had a challenge around the typical leagues between
count riches and without any doubt you always go through
this bit of a process. The chief whip requirement is
the primary part of his role is always to keep
the of the party informed, you know, every twenty four hours.
(06:04):
In terms of these processes, the chief whip wouldn't take
a position. The chief whip should just be the communicator
or the messenger on behalf of the caucus to the
Prime Minister or the leader of the party and just
making sure factually you're providing the right information and that
(06:24):
the leader is well aware of the positional situation that
it is. When it comes to numbers, it tends to
be driven and in my time it was we removed
Winston Peters from the party and that started by a
range of MPs writing Leader to the Chief Whip and
that started a process. And so that's usually the communication
(06:44):
line is for these sort of material matters is via
the Chief Whip.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Chris Hepkez hasn't really released a lot of policy, but
when you see what's going on on the other side
of the beehive, if he probably doesn't have to at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
No. Look, you know, there's an old saying in politics.
You know, elections are about governments losing rather than oppositions winning,
and we look to a certain extent, we look like
we're on track for one of those. So in an
opposition you just hold your fire until you get a
bit of clear air, and no point in releasing stuff
(07:22):
while the other side's in a bit of turm or
let that banner away. You will see it in the polls.
The polls won't look good for the next four weeks,
no matter what the outcomers. You know, there's always this
belief you change the leader and you get a bump
of the polls that you might get a bump on
the poles that it will be very short term. People
will come back to realization around things like their income,
(07:44):
their ability to feed the family, all those things. Business
you don't go away, and they have become the focus
as you get towards the lection.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Get on you deaf to leave it there. Thanks for
your time and short notice. Yes, Jeff Brad there are
recorded there, probably about twenty minutes ago, and of course
we found out since that Christopher Luxon has indeed held
on to the leadership of the National Party and remains
Prime Minister. Tom Shallon's up next
I've been walking these streets. Jeff Grant is a former
National EMPA and joins us this afternoon with everything happening
up at the Bee Hive for the wrong reasons for
the National Party. Jeff, Good, afternoon. We've recorded this probably
about twelve thirty, so we're just waiting for an announcement
which is imminent. Look, you've been there and done that.
(00:28):
What is this doing to the National Party brand?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh? This is not useful. You know, eighty nine days
out from an election. If you look at the history
of local parties and change leadership, I've been through a captains.
I think that's been successful. Notice there have been a
lot of dead bodies otherwise, So for that reason, I
(00:53):
think that'll be why the course is taking so long.
Because this is really, in comparison to four weeks ago,
this is much more dangerous territory in terms of surviving
through the election, and it won't be just a matter
whether you keep the current leader and change or more
importantly is how do you deal with the next eighty
nine days?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And that's the thing I suppose. I mean, these voices
of discontent within the party continue to be heard considering
the coalition government looks odds on to continue. So all
can't be well.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
No, I you know, when you think about the reality
of probably the events of the last three weeks. Look,
we all make mistakes, and I don't think any of
them were material. Yes, they went good sort of situations
suddenly decide we're going to have an MP, butte that
(01:47):
we're going to introduce detectives and courts process. This, you know,
makes you question sort of the leadership style. This, this
has been building for us some time, and so whatever
they choose to do is still going to make it
very difficult.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
And that's the issue I suppose with fill this discontent
going on. I mean, if Luxing continues on, he's got
to be assertive of his action regarding those who are
showing all this frustration. I suppose.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah. Look, I think the little Body seems to struggle
on is the difference between governance and being a chief executive,
and not all chief executives transition into a governance role
particularly well. Governance requires leadership that it requires you having
all your team on your side, and when you've got
(02:38):
half your team not on your so it doesn't matter
what you do, you're never going to pull it together.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Now as far as the rural lends. One thing about
Christopher Luction Christopher Luxon is he has been good for
the rural sector. Should we be concerned of say Eric
Stanford and Chris Bishop perhaps guess the top job? What
does that mean? For real?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Without any doubt, the MP has been, you know, putting
quite a focus not just in the National Party but
across all the political parties around the rural scene. And
that's because it's an important part of the economy and
its shine through since Covid onwards. I think that the
PM has in my view, been quite passionate about the
(03:22):
rural sector, which you haven't always seen in the leader
of a political party. And if you shifted to an
urban drift sort of mentality with somebody else then it
does put some resk. But I think without any any
doubt at all, the current PM has been a strong
support of the head culture sector.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I suppose a concerned anything though from an outside of
looking at was Christopher Luxen's comment last week on ZB
talking at reform regarding MP when he hadn't consulted as
caucus saw his party. That's pretty that's pretty disturbing. Well,
concerning would be a better word, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That that couns you somebody operating in a CEO on
a governance leadership role, because if you had, if you
had really good understanding around that whole governance leadership role,
you would know that whenever you say something publicly that
you have your team fully supportive. And the only way
to find out your teams fully supportive is to have
(04:21):
discussed it through a caucus or kidnet process prior to announcing.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Joseph Mooney. Now, when approached by reporters earlier on, you
see'd rather be in this electric electorate where a major
central local government deal is expected to be signed with
today that he's had a lot of skin in the
game with didn't actually give a support behind the Prime minister.
Do we read much under that?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh? Look, asking MPs as they're walking through an airport
concourse where they where they sit between on a particular
issu or a leadership role. I mean, you ain't ever
going to get the perfect answer. I love. I think
Joseph said only two days ago that he was supportive
of the Prime Minister, so I wouldn't read too much
(05:06):
in it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
This won't affect the coalition government though, and the lead
up to the election as such, I mean they can
carry on the way they are currently.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, Yeah, absolutely. The coalition agreements are actually between the parties,
not between the leaders. So if you had to change
the leadership and one of the coalition part parties, that
doesn't change the coalition agreement. They still stand through to
an election day and unless a party decides to pull
it out.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Now you're a national party chief whip for a term
in the nineties just described the role and like the
pressure that the whips will be under today.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, I had a challenge around the typical leagues between
count riches and without any doubt you always go through
this bit of a process. The chief whip requirement is
the primary part of his role is always to keep
the of the party informed, you know, every twenty four hours.
(06:04):
In terms of these processes, the chief whip wouldn't take
a position. The chief whip should just be the communicator
or the messenger on behalf of the caucus to the
Prime Minister or the leader of the party and just
making sure factually you're providing the right information and that
(06:24):
the leader is well aware of the positional situation that
it is. When it comes to numbers, it tends to
be driven and in my time it was we removed
Winston Peters from the party and that started by a
range of MPs writing Leader to the Chief Whip and
that started a process. And so that's usually the communication
(06:44):
line is for these sort of material matters is via
the Chief Whip.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Chris Hepkez hasn't really released a lot of policy, but
when you see what's going on on the other side
of the beehive, if he probably doesn't have to at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
No. Look, you know, there's an old saying in politics.
You know, elections are about governments losing rather than oppositions winning,
and we look to a certain extent, we look like
we're on track for one of those. So in an
opposition you just hold your fire until you get a
bit of clear air, and no point in releasing stuff
(07:22):
while the other side's in a bit of turm or
let that banner away. You will see it in the polls.
The polls won't look good for the next four weeks,
no matter what the outcomers. You know, there's always this
belief you change the leader and you get a bump
of the polls that you might get a bump on
the poles that it will be very short term. People
will come back to realization around things like their income,
(07:44):
their ability to feed the family, all those things. Business
you don't go away, and they have become the focus
as you get towards the lection.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Get on you deaf to leave it there. Thanks for
your time and short notice. Yes, Jeff Brad there are
recorded there, probably about twenty minutes ago, and of course
we found out since that Christopher Luxon has indeed held
on to the leadership of the National Party and remains
Prime Minister. Tom Shallon's up next
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