April 11, 2025 • 58 mins
Jess and Seth continue with their NFL draft positional previews, this time combining three groups. They talk about some safeties in the draft. They go over the key inside linebackers to know and also break down the cornerbacks.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hellowers are the Cardinals fans, and Welcome to the latest
edition of the Rise Up Sea Red Podcast, the best
star of Cardinals Talk on the Web. I'm your host
Jess Root from cardswire dot com, the USA Today, NFL
wireside that covers ears and a Cardinals recording with my
co host Seth Cox from Revenge of the Birds dot
com esb Nations Arizona Cardinals site.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
As we as we continue.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Through our Draft preview series, episode six hundred and fifty four,
this is as as Seth.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
You and I were kind of planning the episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
When I came to gave you the outline of the
cow I completely missed the defensive backs. Uh so we
have to We've got two positional shows left. We've got
this one, We've got next week our early show, the
late show. We'll talk about seven round plans for the
Cardinals and the draft, and then we'll have our mock
draft and then and then we'll be going crazy that
(01:19):
weekend writing all sorts of content set defensive backs.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We're going to talk defensive backs and linebackers.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And you were telling me earlier that you know, I
guess it's good that we have all the positions to
do because the safety class is highly unimpressive except for
two or three names, is it not?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:39):
And this is you know obviously, I think first off,
we have to acknowledge what it's not really a position
of need barring a trade. So right, unless they make
a trade and move on from Jalen Thompson, unlikely to
move on from Buddha Baker with the new contract, I mean,
(02:01):
I can't see. And we like Rabbit, we like Dadrian
Taylor Demerson quite a bit, but I can't see a
team like trading assets for him.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
No, No, And that's a position.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So it's one of the positions that while there are
a couple of very good safety prospects, the Cardinals are
not in the market for a first round safety and
likely not a second round safety.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
And so we'll talk about those guys.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
There are two guys at the who are the more.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Or less considered the first round guys.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Can you talk about Malachi Starks first because he's lost
value relatively to the draft world because his combine, like
he's got the tape, he's got the build, the combine
was just so blah. There was nothing impressive about it.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
You know who? He kind of reminds me of a lot.
And and.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
I mean this as a compliment, I don't I don't
mean this as a as a shot. But who was
the kid out of Bama that went to the Bears
a couple of years ago, had a couple really good,
like all pro level seasons and then kind of just
fell off the face of the earth. I don't know
who he's with now, if I'm being completely honest, but
(03:24):
a couple of seasons ago he was a And that's
who this guy reminds me of. I'm trying to remember
off the top of my head, but it's obviously not working.
But yeah, I mean, that's the thing when you look
at uh Jackson, Eddie Jackson.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
You know, that's the thing when you look at at
guys like this right there there, they come across from
an athletics standpoint, as you know, just guys, we saw
a guy that was fantastic or the Arizona Cardinals that
didn't get drafted, because a lot of times that's what happens. Right,
(04:02):
These these six foot two hundred pounds safeties are a
dime a dozen. And so when you look at a
guy like Malachi Starks, he comes in at six foot
just under six to one, just under two hundred pounds,
and you know everything, but his broad jump is is.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Average.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
His ten yard split wasn't bad, four or five forty
fifty six percentile, vertical jumps sixtieth percentile, so slightly above average.
You know, broad jump was really really good. I don't
want to take anything away from him. And and we've
just seen that those guys, you know, they're very diamond
dozen in terms of of athleticism. So then all of
(04:45):
a sudden you're having to you're literally having to say,
like how much football does this guy know? Because he
doesn't check the athlete boxes. And again, you know, when
we talk about this, we're talking relative right, Like he's
not a great athlete relative to his peers, doesn't mean he's.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Done right, right, right right athlete he has, he has
average athleticism for his position as opposed to these guys
that know well and Frankly, the other guy who might
maka I startd was it wasn't he for like a
year and a half a consensus safety one, only.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
To have only to have what's his name, nick Emminwori one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
He's ginormous six three two twenty Like remember Isaiah Simmons,
He's built almost like Isaiah Simmons. He's not quite as
as heavy, but he's as athletic as as Isaiah Simmons
was coming out of college. He's six three two twenty
four three eight forty twenty twenty reps of the forty
(05:56):
three inch vertical leap at six foot three and and
uh and then eleven foot six.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I guess what does that come to? One hundred and
thirty eight games broad Yeah, those are that's absurd.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
They're video game numbers, man, and it's just not something
that you see very often. And that's what you know.
So and then you have two things from that, right,
So you have Okay, is he Obi Melifonwu, you know,
the freak athlete out of Yukon back in twenty seventeen,
(06:30):
never really made anything of his career, was out of
the league in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Second round pick. By the way, I mean, to be.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Fair, he was on the Patriots super Bowl team, but
you know, out of league after two seasons? Or is
he you know, Jeremy chen Is he one of these
guys that have turned out to be these just completely dominant.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Really good players.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
And so that's that's again the thing you're having to
go is, like, are we gonna get Eddie jack and
Javon Holland out of Malachi Starks or are we gonna
get Lewis Scene. Remember Lewis Scene was a Georgia safety
drafted in the first round. Uh, and he's he's started
zero games in his career, played in seven or sorry,
(07:16):
played in eleven games and a first round pick. Guys like,
it's just one of those situations that you look at
and that's that's what you have to go with. And
so for the Cardinals, it's great that they don't have
to worry about either of these guys. They're very you know,
I think both of them are gonna be good players. Starks,
I see, really he can fill that Javon Hall in
Eddie Jackson role. Like he's not a superior athlete, but
(07:39):
he has superior instincts on tape and it shows up
Amana Warr is more of a gamble to me, like
he's a freak athlete. Uh you know, you put him
in that in like I said that Jeremy chen Derwin
James category.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
But are you going like obviously those are the high end.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
That's the best case scenario out of those guys is
are you gonna end up getting him or are you
gonna end up getting you know, the the litany, the
you know, the minefield of Obi milafan Wu going even
back further, uh tj McDonald, Josh Jones, like all these
(08:17):
guys that everybody drooled over but never really made it
in the league. I mean Josh Jones remember coming out
of uh North Carolina State second round pick to the Packers.
Everybody's like, oh, it's I mean the Packers with that
secondary right, they're gonna and ended up playing for four teams,
(08:41):
got a little bit of run with the with the
uh uh sorry five teams, and got a little run
with the Seattle Seahawks. But I mean in six years
he started twenty nine games. Like that's that's the thing
within Manawari that you're gonna have to look at and decipher,
you know, and then from there it's really interesting because
(09:03):
there's not much in this class. Xavier Watts, the talented safety.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Out of Notre Dame.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Uh he he came in extremely average in his in
his numbers, I mean, came in under six feet, came
in just over two hundred pounds, uh with with really
really small hands, something you don't see too often from
defensive backs.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Right.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Uh So, you know, and again he's he's been looked
at as a late second, early third. From there you
have Andrew Macouba, who I think didn't he just have
his pro day the other day with with the rest
of Texas, and I don't think he tested very well
if I remember, right, and and you know, you look
(09:52):
at him, he's a little undersized, right, five five eleven
six real short arms, had a good four at four
four five, but nothing like that you're gonna write home
about where you're like, oh, this is a guy. I mean,
he's very again kind of just a guy and that's
why you're seeing him go from an early day two
(10:12):
pick to you know, I've seen him all the way
in late round three.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
To day three.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
I do think we need to mention a local guy
that that tested really well, and local as in high
school Laythan Ransom out of Ohio State. Uh, you know,
came in checks a lot of the boxes in terms
of the size, right that we we just talked about
(10:41):
over six feet over. He came in over two hundred pounds. Again,
these guys have really small hands. But I think at
his pro day Ransom ran a sub four five and
he might have even been faster than that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I'm double checking. You know, he's a guy out of
South Point down in two on.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
And and you you look at him, Yeah, he came
in right at four or five, So you know, you
look at him as a guy that he's going to
go on day three, Like I would be really surprised
if you went on the second day of the draft.
But a local guy, great teammate, really really good special
(11:25):
teams guy. Uh, you know, checks all of those boxes.
So you know, it's one of those situations where you
look at and you say, okay, Like he's a guy
that based on how safeties get drafted. And this is
something we talk about every year, right you If you
can be a special teams guy immediately and potentially turn
(11:47):
into a starter, that's great. But if you're just a
special teams guy forever.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Nobody really cares, right, No, if you make a career
out of special teams.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
While you might wish.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
You could do more as a player, if you have
a ten year career specialty. Let's think about this. Justin
Bethel just retired. What was it like a year ago,
maybe it was this offseason. He was drafted in twenty
twelve is out of the sixth round, wasn't it some
tiny school?
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, and he was.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Great on special teams and like the Cardinals paid him
like a potential good corner, didn't work out and then
just stuck around the NFL and never made another Pro
Bowl as a special teamer after he left the Cardinals,
but played for another decade.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Right, I mean you think about it, just like twelve
years in the NFL is absurd, I mean just absurd.
Three time Pro bowler, Like you said, six round pick
out of Presbyterian, you know, so like that's what that's
kind of what you're looking at when you're when you're
talking about safeties, right, and this class, it's really just
the other guy that that I've seen ranked highly that
(13:02):
we should mention Billy Bowman, the safety out of out
of Oklahoma. But he's a little bit different five ten
one nineties, so he's kind of a more compactly built guy.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
She's a Buddha. Jalen Thompson and Rabbit. All those guys
are smaller than your typical safeties.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Yeah, and and super super short arms, and it shows
up on film like a guy that is a is
a very aggressive downhill player but misses a lot of
tackles and you go, you know, how do we fix that?
And it's like, I don't know if you can. Like
you're talking about a guy that's literally in the zero
(13:41):
percentile for arm length twenty eight and a half inches
is is?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I mean?
Speaker 5 (13:46):
And everything else is is above average, but like arm
length that short, it's really really hard because you can't.
You have to be insanely in stinctual, like insanely instinctual.
And there have been a guy that got drafted I
(14:06):
think in the fourth round. Uh that's I think he
was even a pro bowler. I'm double checking. No, never
a pro bowler, but had a has had a good career. Yes,
he was drafted in the fourth round. Jordan Whitehead. He
has very very similar uh measurables. So he's like one
of the few outliers that you can find that works out. Uh,
(14:28):
you know that sub five eleven, uh, you know, in
that midnight one ninety range. But and even even Whitehead's arms,
and I know it might seem nitpicky, but even Whitehead's
armed for an inch and a quarter longer than Bowman's.
Like Bowman's arms, I've never seen this bo like I've
never like when you look at the percentiles on like
(14:49):
mock draftable and stuff like that, I've never seen a
guy come in in the zero percentile for arm length
and and so like he is and so and so
that that's the thing. It's an outlier pick. And and
that's if you look at any profile on Bowman, it's
always going to say like he he you know, can
be overly aggressive and mistackles or inconsistent tackler or something
(15:12):
to that nature. Well, I think a lot of it
is he's got really short arms, and so it's hard
for him to wrap, especially when you're that you know,
undersized at five ten one ninety so. And then you
get into the the freaks you know, and the special
athletes and that stuff. And that's that's kind of how
(15:34):
that goes in the draft, right, Just like the seventh
round you just start throwing. You just kind of start
throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Right, Right, A guy like Jonah Sanker, right, I know,
he's a guy that mel Kuyper has mentioned a few times.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Where is is he going to be a Day two
or Day three guy?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
He'll be a day he's got production. Yeah, he'll be
a Day three guy. I mean he is.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
He's a little bigger at six foot two oh six,
had good numbers, you know, four four eight forty really
good and above out.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Very good tackling. He's led the he led the ACC
two years in a row, and solo tackles. If you.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
In terms of the type of the Cardinals have a
safety like that in Buddha Baker, who's incredibly tackle productive.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
And Sanker was that he did have. He did break
up eleven.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Passes for Virginia in twenty twenty three, but has two
career interceptions. But he's a guy that you can he's more.
He's definitely a box guy, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Yeah, And that's what you have to look at. It's
like you you have that in spades and signed you know.
And but the one thing about Sanker is he's a phenomenal,
phenomenal special teams player.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That's that's where he looks that that that would be
something if the Cardinals. If the Cardinals draft the safety,
they're gonna have special teams upside.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And let's not.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Forget now, granted Buddha Baker, they traded up in the
sacred round for him.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
What did he do with his first year?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
He was a special teamer and a probe special team
or until the safety he got hurt. It was a
pretty good safety was having a pretty good.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Year here and Johnson.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
No, it wasn't ra Shad. Johnson was a guy that
brought it in free safety. They brought in as a
free agent that year. And I'm it it was his
only year. He broke his arm or something. I think
that was the last year he played. I'm gonna have
to look that up. Twenty seven Cardinals and I'm gonna
pick myself.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
But yeah, I mean, so that's the thing is you
look at you look at it overall. Uh, you know
this is a it's a position where there they are loaded,
which is you know, great, They've got a lot of talent.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Time on branch by the way, Uh, that was the
one Tithon branch.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
But there are a couple of guys that you can
you know, you look at you. You mentioned uh Sanker.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Another one, R J. Mickens out of Clemson.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
Uh, the guy that like kind of blew up the
combine and you're like, I don't know where he's gonna
fit with this whole thing. But Marquis Single out of
Kansas State, I mean Single came in at five eleven,
two hundred pounds and then ran a four to three
seven and jumped out of the building.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So like, you go, he's a.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Guy that can play special teams. He was a team captain.
You know, those are the guys that you're, yeah, taking
the sixth, seventh round. And by the way, it's Single,
not Single, I apologize, but yeah, I mean those and
you know, those are the guys that end up getting
drafted there because that's where that's where you take safeties
(18:36):
like him. And one more guy, Kitten Crawford out of
Nevada five eleven, two h two and he ran a
four to four one but then jump forty one and
a half inches, So like, again, a guy that's probably
never going to be an every down player, but he's
going to be in the NFL for you know, seven
(18:58):
eight nine years as a special teams contributor.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And with that, those are names to know about the
safeties coming to next on the Rise of Secret Podcasts,
I be start Cardinals talking moment. Let's talk about another
position that doesn't have a lot of depth, but we
could see a guy drafted early that's inside linebacker that's
coming to next rise ups he read, We're back on
the Rise of Secret podcast best are Cardinals talk on
the web. We're jumping from safety to inside linebacker safety
(19:23):
because it's kind of an over we're kind of overlooking
at the position, but inside linebacker is legitimately a position
of need. However, this class is would you say it's
extremely top heavy with probably the first two or three
and then after that it's just those are just Day
three guys that you get.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, there's I want to I wanna go over five.
So there's I think there's two Day one guys with
the bullet Uh, it'll be interesting to see what and
how they kind of grade those guys. And again just
depends on what you're looking at. We're gonna go off
(20:06):
the consensus big board. But then the problem with the
consensus big board in this instance is the number one
guy is not on there, and that's Jalen Walker out
of Georgia.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
So Walker as an edge guy.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
But yeah, so so Walker is getting looked at as
as you know, if you go to Lance Airlines rankings,
he's a linebacker. If you go to other rankings, he's
an edge. So he's a tough guy, but you know,
he's the guy. And in our community mock draft through
through ESBI Nation, that's who I picked at sixteen because
(20:40):
I was like, dude, if and by the way, I
don't think there's any chance Jayleen Walker's on the board,
so that who I think they're going to pick. But
in that scenario, in that way, Jalen Walker at sixteen
would be a slam dunk because he's a guy that
can play will linebacker in this defense and then he
can he's a guy that you can start to utilize
(21:02):
off the edge in packages and stuff like that. So
he's a guy that never comes off the field the
kind of consensus number one. But again you're kind of like,
all right, where we where do we grade him? Where
do we use him? Jihat Campbell out of out of Alabama, Campbell,
you know, is the kind of prototype build six three
(21:23):
two thirty five ran a four or five two forty
at the at the combine. I mean, there's not a
lot of negatives to combine with Camble.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
He he's really good sidelined to sideline, he can move
and he can.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Rush off the edge as well. So yeah, and that's
the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So you know what, what the Cardinals like what they
have in mac Wilson, say, say they want mac Wilson
to be the MIC this year. Joh Hot Campbell's kind
of the perfect guy to have next to him, wouldn't
it be.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
And the one thing with Campbell, and it's a conversation
we have all the time about linebackers in general, is
I do worry about his instincts. He looks a little
slow in recognition, but he's such a superior athlete that
he makes up for it. But he's a guy that
can play like you said that that that will linebacker position.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
He can move down on the edge.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
And he's got to continue to build that that anticipatory stuff.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
However, he has things that you can't teach. One. He's
fantastic in coverage, just absolutely electrical and coverage so from there,
you're like, well, let's you know, I take that, and
he does.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Then that's the biggest question is his surgery was after
the combine. So he did the combine, which is super admirable.
Nobody's gonna but nobody can get a follow up in
terms of how healthy he is during the top thirty visits.
(22:59):
And that's a thing that I mean, if you're drafting
sixteenth overall, aren't you going, I gotta see if this
guy's gonna be healthy for this season, right like? And
so that's the thing. So so we can say, and
we can say with assurance that you know, maybe there's
a reason they brought in a guy like a Keen
Davis Gater, right like, they look at it and they go, hey,
(23:21):
if Campbell's there, we snatch him up, and we worry
about the health in year two because we don't feel
like we have to get him on the field immediately.
He can heal up and play the next guy that
I love. You know, if there was a pick to
be made at forty seven, this is this is who
(23:43):
I would take, depending on how run one goes. But
that's that's Carson Swessinger. He's a Day two guy. How
do U c l a a guy that they haven't interviewed,
but they've interviewed his team. He made Otafonway and I
talked about him on the site the other day. Atafahnway
(24:06):
was kind of a guy that was basically DOA in
terms of draft stock, and now he's being talked about
in the third I haven't even seen second round when
he moved outside as pass rusher. To coincide with that,
you got a guy in Swesssenger who came in and
(24:32):
and became a Day two with a bullet linebacker prospect.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
The biggest thing with Swssenger is you kind of looked
at him and you're like, ah, he looks a little
light in the pants, right like, and and then this
year he becomes a first team All Pro. He finished
with one hundred and thirty six tackles.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Odd country and solo tackles with ninety.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Now he did like his His college stuff is sports
Wress of the College Football Data Base had almost at
six two two ten.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
He's clearly bulked up as he came in at the combine.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
At two forty two, so he has added some size
to him. The question is how much what what do
you think with his actual playing weight was was it
in the two thirties, probably as opposed to what was
listed before before.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
I would I think he played in the two twenties
and he's continuing to get bigger. The thing you have
to remember what Swesssnger is. One, he was a walk on.
Two he was a special teamer, so he felt like
he needed to be athletic enough to move and run.
But you know he came into the combine at two
forty two and then he tested out of this world.
(25:44):
I mean just jumped out of the building thirty nine
and a half inches at six two two forty two.
And so this is you know, this is where you
have to have to make a call. Right Sweestnger instinctually
is way and I mean way above Jihah Campbell right
(26:05):
now as a linebacker. He just understands and reads it
to an extent that is insanely difficult to teach and
prepare a.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Guy for.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
All that being said, is is he a guy that
you feel like can play in the two you know,
the two thirties or two forties? And is he a
guy that can hold up if he has to play
in the two thirties or two twenties. Those are questions
(26:41):
that you and I can't answer, right. But this dude,
this dude looks the part. He instinctually gets it, and
he is the best at diagnosing and making tackles out
of any of the linebackers in this class in my opinion,
(27:02):
and that's why I would take him at forty seven
without hesitation. If Walker and Campbell aren't the picks in
round one, A couple more guys that we should mention
that could go on on Day two, So round two,
Round three. Demetrius Knight out of South Carolina. Night is
older he was at and he's been around the block
(27:25):
a little bit. Was that Georgia Tech in twenty nineteen,
Georgia Tech in twenty twenty, Georgia Tech in twenty twenty one,
and then Georgia Tech in twenty twenty two, but only
played in four games in red shirted. Then he went
to Charlotte, So Charlotte is a is that No, that's
(27:45):
a FBS school now right anyways, and finally started and
was fantastic and then ended up going to South Carolina
and really blooming into this guy that that is going
to be a Day two pick he is he you know,
the problem is he's a six year player, so he's
(28:06):
going to be twenty five this year.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
That's that's always tough. Uh.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
So you're looking at it and something we talk about
and I don't remember if we talked about on this show,
but I think I've mentioned it before. Linebackers are kind
of like running backs, right Like, if you get him
in the third round and you get four years out
of him, or maybe even a fifth year or six year,
you're happy. But like they kind of you know, you
kind of use them and lose them, right Like, they
(28:30):
get banged up because they're on the field for usually
ninety eight to one plays and and in today's game,
these guys are playing at six two, two thirty five,
but they're running sub for six forties, so they're freak
athletes having to run into three hundred pound linemen all
the time, uh to try to make these plays. So
they just they just go really quick. That's my concern
(28:54):
about Night. You know, if he's there at that and
in that seventy six range, I don't think that's a
that's an issue. Obviously, having not drafted one in round
one or two, but before that, I would steer clear.
I like him as a player, so I don't want
anybody to think I don't like him, but those are
those are my concerns about him. And then the last
(29:15):
guy is the other Georgia linebacker, but he is he's
light six two twenty four smell Malden or Mandan excuse me.
UH tested really well four five eight forty, really explosive
broad jump ten foot ten inch broad jump, and then
(29:35):
was a top thirty overall recruit and then started UH
for three seasons. Now there's two things. He's missed some
games with some lower body injuries, which is always a
concern for me with an undersized guy. But he is
an insanely instinctive and physical player.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
For his size.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
And I know people are saying two twenty four that's
not small, but for a linebacker, it's small. And he
might be the best coverage linebacker in the draft. And
so if you're talking about you mentioned you know Mac earlier.
If you're talking about Mac and you go, you go,
oh man with Mac, he's the Mic Mandon. He's the
(30:23):
will like I don't have it. There's like he's the guy,
and he is explosive, he can run, He tackles. Well,
he's just like I just he's been banged up, missed
time in twenty two, miss time in twenty three, missed
a lot of time in twenty four. And the way
(30:44):
he plays, the physicality he plays, I mean, it's a
lot like Buddha, And you know, Buddha I think has
done a really really nice job of being able to avoid,
you know, the big hits and being run over and
things like that. But man, he That's the thing about
Mandan that concerns me the most is that he's going
(31:06):
to be a guy that just can't hold up. But again,
in the seventies, I'm willing to take that risk because
you're talking about a guy that you're like, all right,
if I get, if I get four years out of them,
and if I can get you know, fifteen plus games
this season for four years, that's a win. But I
(31:28):
just don't know, with the concerning injury history, if you're
going to even get.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
That who names that, I'm imagining you're probably gonna be
solid Day three options. But they were the headliners on
the defenses in the National Championship game. Jack Tizer for
a Notre Dame, Cody Simon for Ohio State. Do they
have a future in the NFL in terms of what
they can do?
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
I mean Simon's Simon's a big guy. Again, he falls
into the like, I think he's been around since the
first Obama administration if I remember right, No, I mean
he's been around for five years. I think he was
a red shirt two, so I think six years even.
But like, this is a dude that is instinctual, understands
(32:15):
the game and makes plays on the ball six two thirty.
But he's not athletic. So like you're taking you're you're
taking a shot, and and to your point, that's why
you're gonna draft him on day three. You're gonna take
a guy that is gonna end up being undersigh or
(32:35):
you know, a little undersized in the two thirties too,
you know, high two twenties, doesn't have incredibly long arms,
and isn't the best athlete. Like so you're basically like,
all right, I trust your instincts to the moon. And
that's you know, we've seen those guys who's the kid
(32:56):
out of how shucks out of you of a that
did a little stint with the Cardinals too, but got
drafted by the Browns.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Anyways, I I just play and he's still playing like
in the ufluh I.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
But you know, people will know who I'm talking about
and scream at us for not remembering. But but yeah,
that's who he reminds me of. I mean, his high
end comp that I've seen that that I don't mind
is like Blake Martinez, who's had a really nice career.
But I mean Blake Martinez has been on like four
teams in that time in the NFL, and he's a Again,
(33:34):
if that's what you get in the in the fourth
or fifth round, that's a that's a hell of a pick.
That's a I mean, Blake Martinez been around and and
I think last year was his last year fourth round
pick and he play he started seventy nine yeah, and
so you know, and and Martinez started.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Like eighty gaytons in his career.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
So again you're not You're not looking at it and
going this is a negative like you're saying, oh, this
is a really this is a positive thing about Simon,
Like that would be the high end. And but that's
the problem with guys like that is and Kiger's kind
of in that same bag, right, Like Kaiser is not
the best athlete.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
He is for sure older. He's been around the block.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
He started, He started in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, so he's been around forever. You know.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Again, same same type of thing, six two, two thirty linebacker,
like nothing bad.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
He's on his third NFL contract by now, right.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Right will be twenty five years old in September. Very
average athlete, but super super instinctual, super instinctual, and it
has been a special team's captain for years. So like,
so again, you're talking about a guy that you're probably taking.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
In round five six that is going to.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Be around forever in the league, you know, five, six, seven,
eight years, But not a guy that you're you're drafting early.
A couple other guys we should mention Chris Paul Junior.
I don't think he's related to Chris Paul, but you know,
he's a he's a really intriguing guy. I've seen some
people mock him in the second round. I disagree wholeheartedly.
(35:29):
He's undersized the first thing, you know, under thirty terms,
and and again, if he's six two and two forty
two and he runs a four to sixty three, you're fine
with that. But everything else, like you said, but he
is a guy that is really instinctual, and he's physical
(35:56):
for a size, and he's a downhill guy. If you
got him in round four or like you you had
a trade back and you ended up with an extra
third round pick, I think that's the perfect utilization for
Paul right in that area. And he's a guy that
I can see being successful and playing in the league.
It's just gonna have to be in a defense that
(36:17):
that is able to utilize his talents. The guys you
know that I've seen are kind of matched up with him.
Diane Hinley, the kid that came out of Washington State
by way of Nevada that went late in the third
round to the to the Chargers.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
I like that, Like that's the same.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
Type of player I see and and I think he
would be, you know again, in that range, I think
he'd be a good fit. Danny Stutsman out of Oklahoma,
a little bit bigger, six three two thirty three, really
good times at four five to two. Not super explosive
in the in the jump switch. Not shocking to see
(36:59):
that based on his film. But he is a really
really good run defender, extremely physical, but he's not, like
I said, he's not explosive, So, like you're the question
becomes where does he fit and and how how much
(37:21):
can you get out of him? A guy I've seen
him comp too, that's been a good player in the NFL.
I wouldn't say he's been, you know, great, he's had
he's had really good seasons.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
But like Pete Werner out of Ohio State and he
went in the second round. I don't see any way
that uh Stutsman goes in the second round. But I've
been shocked before. But he's a.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Guy, you know, I've seen, you know, Jermaine Pratt another
you know comp that I've seen. Jermaine Pratt's been fine
right in in Sincy and for all those years. But again,
not a guy that you are like, you're like, oh man,
I wish the Cardinals had a Jermaine Pratt type player,
right like?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And so no, not really And but this basically is
the linebacker position philosophically, is it?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
What makes sense at least.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
What the Cardinals are are likely doing is you do
with good enough until you find someone special.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
Yeah, And that's I think what they keep doing. And
that's the whole like, you know, continue to throw things
at the Wall type thing. And I know people are like, well,
you got to go get one, but it's like, look,
the best linebackers in the NFL, the the best ones.
You either take a guy that is insanely instinctual, that
(38:44):
has been phenomenal, like a Roquan Smith right like that
you took in the top ten and he became an
All pro type, or you get lucky and you get
a Fred Warner. I mean that's that's the thing that
gets me is like everybody's like, oh, you need to
(39:06):
find Fred Warner. It's like, well, Fred Warner was drafted
in the third round. Like nobody wanted Fred Warner. You know,
the Cardinals could I mean the forty nine ers could
have taken Fred Warner four different times. You know, Zach
Bond was on his second team, like he was basically
an afterthought. I mean, Zach Bond started fourteen games in
(39:31):
his career for the Saints. They spent a third round
pick on it. So a lot of it's just.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
Luck, you know. I know people don't love to hear that,
but a lot of it's luck.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
And the luck doesn't mean you do have good scouting,
but it's it's like the Brock purty thing. They were
lucky because seventh round quarterbacks rarely turn out to be
anything in the NFL, and they were lucky because they
completely whipped on the Tree Lance one.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
But yeah, let's move on from that.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Coming Ax on the Rice of here podcast been Best
car Cardinals talking, Well, let's dive into the cornerback position,
a position the Cardinals love to draft. That's coming next,
and he read back on the right of secret podcast
Best are Cardinals. The Cardinals love cornerbacks. They have drafted
five in the last two seasons, three last year, and
over the last two years, three picks in the top
(40:29):
ninety have been to the cornerback position. And yet that
doesn't mean they're not going to take a cornerback.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
In round one.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
As you know, Will Johnson is getting mocked more and
more often to the Cardinals, the guy that was probably
viewed as a top ten pick, not you know, in
thee in the months before, but now could see a
little bit of a fall because well, he doesn't have
the great speed, but he's got the playmaking. He's a
great cornerback. Travis Hunter. Yes, he's he's special. He's going
(41:01):
to be in the top three of He's gonna be picked.
He's gonna be pick number two overall. So that's great.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Daniel Jeremiah has has six, I think six or seven
cornerbacks in his top fifty, and one of them is
Gravis Hunter. But Will Johnson comes in at number two.
What is really good about him? And is the long
speed really a concern that we should have?
Speaker 5 (41:30):
No, And that's just based on how the Cardinals use
their corner deploy their corners. And you know, I wrote
about this when I wrote about Will Johnson, and I
think some people took it as a negative and I
really didn't mean it that way. But you know, what
do I know? But Will Johnson's like high end comp
to me is all pro James Bradberry. Remember Bradbury was
(41:55):
an All Pro in his one season with with Jonathan Gannon. Now,
I'm not gonna saying that Will Johnson's gonna be an
all Pro if he.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Comes to the arison the Cardinals.
Speaker 5 (42:07):
That's an outlandish statement to make, but I could see
that being kind of who he is as a player
is a guy that has an insane amount of success
because he fits into the scheme so well similar size.
(42:29):
I mean, obviously Bradberry's a little thicker as he's gotten older.
But when he came out of wherever he came out of,
I know it was a small school Sandford. You know,
he was he was about two ten.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
You know.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
Will Johnson's a little taller, a little bit leaner at
one ninety five. But remember Bradbury ran a four to five,
didn't have great jumps, three cone and short shuttle just okay,
and he's had a great career. That's the guy that
I see in the player. I see Will Johnson having
(43:08):
the chance to be And again it's you know, I
know people will be like, well, you're saying like a
small stretch of Bradbury's career, and it's like, yeah, but
that's that's what Will Johnson could be potentially every year.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I mean, that's how good he was.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
And that's what you hope that he could be like
that consistently.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
Right, And so yeah, I mean the long speed isn't
a concern to me because of that. I mean, I
know everybody is excited and gets excited about these these burners,
and you know, but the guy was a freak. In
twenty twenty two, as a freshman, he was the one
(43:47):
of the best, if not the best corner in the
country in twenty twenty three as a sophomore, and he
won MVP of the defensive MVP of.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
The National Championship game. I mean, how good he was.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
And and then obviously was an ap AL American thirteen
this year despite not I mean six games, and that's
how good he was. But that goes to the concerns.
I mean, this is a guy that's been nicked up
two years in a row. You know, he's he's coming
off a hamstring that has prevented him from even being
(44:26):
able to work out. Those are concerns, man. I mean,
I I don't know any other way to say that.
And so like if you if you get the medicals
and you say the medicals are great, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
You know, it's all it's all go. If you say I.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
Don't know, I mean, this is a guy that that
is nicked up all the time, couldn't do X, Y
or z I, then I don't think you could pull
the trigger.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
And that's just that's just the reality of it. Uh,
you know. And and here's the thing. From what I'm
he's gonna go.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
He's gonna go to Las Vegas at what six or
something like that, So it may be a moot point
at this point, so that I means.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
So then so then we moved to Johnny barn. We've
talked a little bit about him in one of our
mock draft shows where we broke down.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
A mock draft.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But the more they talk about Johnny Barn, you know
who he kind of reminds me of in terms of
what they think he can do at the next level.
It's a guy I actually personally disliked for a number
of years on the cars that inentrol role because he
failed as a boundary corner. But when he found it,
(45:38):
when they put him in a playmaker role, playing nickel
playing safety, he ended up with a really nice NFL career.
Is Johnny Baron kind of that guy because the people
seem to be more talking about him as playmaker and
less as boundary cover guy.
Speaker 5 (45:55):
Yeah, And That's where I'm at with him. I really
like the player, but you know, I see a guy
and Baron who is like a big nickel safety. I
don't know how much you want to use him outside consistently.
And that's that's where my question is with Baron, right,
you know.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
So he with with Baron, if you take him, you
have to believe that you can put Garrett Williams and
play him on the boundary full time, right.
Speaker 5 (46:23):
Yeah, And and that's that's the question. And but here's this.
You know, with the Cardinals zone heavy scheme, he's a
guy that can play and he's a play maker, so
I don't mind it. But again, I think he's gonna go.
I think he'll probably end up getting drafted by the
(46:46):
forty nine ers, so I don't I don't think he'll
even be on the board when the Cardinals go up.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
So if if that's the case, if Baron's off the board,
Johnson's on the board. Is there any other cornerback worth
looking at number sixteen or only looking back? Any trade
back scenario?
Speaker 4 (47:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (47:05):
I think trade back scenario. I don't think there's another
one that you would want to take two guys that
are getting like in a round one mentioned though, so
we can at least mention it. I don't know if
the Cardinals have met with Maxwell harriston the Kentucky corner
five eleven three Blaze the four forty. But you know
the thing with him is he's got good, good arm length,
(47:28):
He's lean, but I mean, not overlyly, not like the
kid out of Mississippi State a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
Right, But he's a guy.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
This is more like DRC. He's more like DRC build.
Speaker 5 (47:42):
Yeah, yeah, and plays a lot like DRC, who ended
up being you know, fantastic, right, and the Cardinals traded
him away or whatever.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
I'm not gonna talk about it, so.
Speaker 5 (47:53):
Yeah, right exactly, so you know, you look at him,
he's a guy. The question I have with him is again,
and he had a good he had a good season
last year in twenty three, but smaller like we just
talked about, or leaner like we just talked about, and
miss five games with the shoulder injury this year. Again,
(48:15):
I'm just like, that's I don't know, not my jam
because he is actually physical for a size, and that's
my concern is, this is a guy that likes to
be physical, likes to mix it up, and he's he's
lean and already had a shoulder issue just and and
he's a freak athlete. So you know, those are always
(48:37):
concerns a guy they have met with I know, and
he is a tall, long, really talented guy who made
the jump from the Sunbelt to the sec and so
you know, that's what you like to see. And then
and then transferred from Bama over to Ole Miss this year,
and that's Trey Amos.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (48:58):
You know, Amos is a guy that you look at
and he is he's a good athlete, but he has
really good instincts and he likes to be physical and
he's a little more built for that physicality. Now, he's
not huge by any means. I don't want anybody to
(49:19):
think I'm saying that, but you know, coming in at
six foot one one ninety five with a really good
long wingspan, that's a guy that you look at and
you go, Okay, I like I like his I like
his cut, for how he likes to play and what
he does. I've seen some comps like AJ Terrell. Obviously,
(49:41):
we talked about that the other night. I'm not a
huge fan of comping guys to all pros, but you know,
AJ Terrell went in sixteenth overall, so he's a guy
that you know, if he went in the back in
the first round, it would make a lot of sense.
The one thing I'll say that that kind of scarce
me about Amos is he's a little bit of a gambler,
(50:04):
and we know that that can backfire on guys. So that's,
you know, something to keep in mind with Amos from there.
I think Chavon Ravell, who will talk about in a second,
would have been but coming off the knee injury, I
think he ends up going on Day two.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Another guy that probably would have been a first round
pick is Benjamin Morrison, on a Notre Dame who has
apparently a connection to the team that his dad's a
team chaplain here, although I thought it was with Washington,
I thought I saw Adam Schefter mentioning that Bett Morrison's
dad is a team chaplain with the Cardinals. So and
he's from Phoenix, he went high school. But you know, Benjamino,
(50:40):
Ben Morrison, like you'd be mentioned, he'd be more of
a cause he's got that hip injury that he's coming
off of. They could they could the Cardinals pull off
a Garrett Williams type scenario, getting him in round three
and then red shirting him essentially and building him for
the future.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
If you get a guy like that.
Speaker 5 (50:57):
Yeah, and and he's, like you said, the local connection,
multiple local connections, and then you know, just the talent.
I mean, he was a guy that was going to
be a Day one pick, like you said, and then
just was injured. He was a very good corner in
his time at Notre Dame, really good, strong ties to
the community.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
The biggest thing with him again is he's a little
bit of.
Speaker 5 (51:18):
A he's a little bit of a gambler and things
of that nature. But I mean, freshman All American had
ten pass breakups and three interceptions last year and then
only played in six games that had four PBUs. So
it was really you know, on the rise to be
to be a you know, a first round type of
(51:41):
guy before the injuries. So you know, I like Morrison.
Another guy, Shavon Ravel, He's another interesting one, right just
because he's the he's the long guy in the draft,
six almost thirty three inch arms played at Louisbourg before
(52:01):
making the move over to East Carolina and then was
really really good at East Carolina. But the question is
what's his athleticism, right, So you got.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
To and he's coming off the ACL tier too, right,
so you.
Speaker 4 (52:15):
Can't even test him. You're not going to know.
Speaker 5 (52:17):
You're gonna have to really rely on your scouts and
your medical staff to have this guy, you know, in
the right spot. But I think if he would have
been able to test and tested, you know, in that
sub four or five range, he probably would have been
a guy that you were talking about with Amos and
and Harston.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Other guys stood that the one guy that stood out
in terms of athletically. If you look at Ohio States
to hen Porter six three five thirty three thirty three
inch arms or three forty uh six seven to win
three cone thirty six and a half burnt one hundred
and thirty one inch broad jump. Where does he fall
(52:56):
in terms of that? Obviously he's a freak, but where
does he fall in terms of where he might fall
in the draft?
Speaker 4 (53:03):
I like him a lot, man, I really do.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
And and a guy that's been good, not great in
the NFL that he kind of probably comps out to
pretty well, but again win the fifth round. So we're
talking hugely different here. Zion McCollum. You remember Zion McCollum
out of sam Houston State three years y.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yes, and then Porter's older because he did he's been
he'd been at Iowa State since twenty nineteen, so he's
pre pandemic.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
So he is older, but.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
Yeah, and he's he's a really productive player.
Speaker 5 (53:41):
But this is this is what the issue is with Porter,
the biggest issue and you you mentioned the age. He
didn't play a whole lot chess. So he played in
twelve games as a reserve last year, So twenty three,
played in twelve games as a reserve the year before
(54:02):
in twenty two, played in thirteen games as a reserve
in twenty one, and then played in twelve games as
a reserve in twenty twenty. That's a like, if you're
that big of a freak of nature, why did it
take you six years to get a start. And I'm
not going to try to throw shade, but like at
Iowa State, it's not like you were at Bama, not
(54:24):
like you were at Georgia.
Speaker 4 (54:26):
It's not like they're producing these these day one draft
pick guys, right, or you're getting five star recruits.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
You're at But he does have he was really good
on special teams.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
He had he blocked four punts in college, really good gunner.
So at least there's that sight, Like so that makes
him a day three guy, right that you could find
him probably round five likely, I think he's.
Speaker 5 (54:53):
Going to go on day two just because you don't
find that size and speed.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
Ever, I'm just stin Well, then that's that's fun.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Uh, a guy that that If you want a guy
who can make plays on the ball, how about Noel
Williams out of out of cal who had a kind
of nation leading seven interceptions last season.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
Yeah, and Williams is a guy that a lot of production,
but he didn't test exactly well. And and he's a
guy that while he's played a ton, he is a
guy that I think gets away with being more instinctual
than he is elite athletically six ft two hundred pounds,
(55:41):
some thirty one inch arms, four or five forty just
average jumps, but second team ap All American. When you're
talking about a guy that you know he had nine
pass breakup sixteen passes defense and and you talked about
seven iron t's led college football this year, that's going
(56:02):
to be the question mark. Is he is he a
gambler that got away with it playing at you know,
bad schools against bad competition, or is he a guy
that you can you can win with consistently. Kobe Bryant
out of Kansas is another one that's you know, been
around the block for a while. He's had some good
games he's had some good film and you watch.
Speaker 4 (56:24):
Him play.
Speaker 5 (56:28):
And you see what he can do, and you know
I would I wouldn't hate him on day three either.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Just all right, anybody else before we wrap this up,
because I know you got to get out of here.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
Any other names to throw out there for day three?
Speaker 5 (56:43):
I mean Denzel Burke, another local kid, been at Ohio
State what feels like forever. He's a guy that you know,
has good movement skills, been productive, but had really big
ups and down. I think he would make sense on
day three. And that's really it. I mean, there's the
problem is with these corners and just like safeties, like now,
(57:05):
you're kind of taking stabs at guys right based on athleticism.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
And the right things right.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
And with that, we will wrap up this edition of
the Rest of Here podcast, Best Our Cardinals Talk the Way.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
We'll be back for.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
One more positional preview show where we will talk about quarterbacks,
running backs, and tight ends next next week, as well
as our kind of our seven round hopes for the Cardinals.
That's seth Cox, I'm just Ruth. Thanks for listening. As always,
we will be back again soon. Thanks for listening to
the latest edition of the Rise Up See Red podcast,
(57:38):
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(58:01):
course Rise Up s Red.
Speaker 1 (58:23):
Z z
Speaker 2 (58:28):
Z z
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hellowers are the Cardinals fans, and Welcome to the latest
edition of the Rise Up Sea Red Podcast, the best
star of Cardinals Talk on the Web. I'm your host
Jess Root from cardswire dot com, the USA Today, NFL
wireside that covers ears and a Cardinals recording with my
co host Seth Cox from Revenge of the Birds dot
com esb Nations Arizona Cardinals site.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
As we as we continue.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Through our Draft preview series, episode six hundred and fifty four,
this is as as Seth.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
You and I were kind of planning the episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
When I came to gave you the outline of the
cow I completely missed the defensive backs. Uh so we
have to We've got two positional shows left. We've got
this one, We've got next week our early show, the
late show. We'll talk about seven round plans for the
Cardinals and the draft, and then we'll have our mock
draft and then and then we'll be going crazy that
(01:19):
weekend writing all sorts of content set defensive backs.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We're going to talk defensive backs and linebackers.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And you were telling me earlier that you know, I
guess it's good that we have all the positions to
do because the safety class is highly unimpressive except for
two or three names, is it not?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:39):
And this is you know obviously, I think first off,
we have to acknowledge what it's not really a position
of need barring a trade. So right, unless they make
a trade and move on from Jalen Thompson, unlikely to
move on from Buddha Baker with the new contract, I mean,
(02:01):
I can't see. And we like Rabbit, we like Dadrian
Taylor Demerson quite a bit, but I can't see a
team like trading assets for him.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
No, No, And that's a position.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So it's one of the positions that while there are
a couple of very good safety prospects, the Cardinals are
not in the market for a first round safety and
likely not a second round safety.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
And so we'll talk about those guys.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
There are two guys at the who are the more.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Or less considered the first round guys.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Can you talk about Malachi Starks first because he's lost
value relatively to the draft world because his combine, like
he's got the tape, he's got the build, the combine
was just so blah. There was nothing impressive about it.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
You know who? He kind of reminds me of a lot.
And and.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
I mean this as a compliment, I don't I don't
mean this as a as a shot. But who was
the kid out of Bama that went to the Bears
a couple of years ago, had a couple really good,
like all pro level seasons and then kind of just
fell off the face of the earth. I don't know
who he's with now, if I'm being completely honest, but
(03:24):
a couple of seasons ago he was a And that's
who this guy reminds me of. I'm trying to remember
off the top of my head, but it's obviously not working.
But yeah, I mean, that's the thing when you look
at uh Jackson, Eddie Jackson.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
You know, that's the thing when you look at at
guys like this right there there, they come across from
an athletics standpoint, as you know, just guys, we saw
a guy that was fantastic or the Arizona Cardinals that
didn't get drafted, because a lot of times that's what happens. Right,
(04:02):
These these six foot two hundred pounds safeties are a
dime a dozen. And so when you look at a
guy like Malachi Starks, he comes in at six foot
just under six to one, just under two hundred pounds,
and you know everything, but his broad jump is is.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Average.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
His ten yard split wasn't bad, four or five forty
fifty six percentile, vertical jumps sixtieth percentile, so slightly above average.
You know, broad jump was really really good. I don't
want to take anything away from him. And and we've
just seen that those guys, you know, they're very diamond
dozen in terms of of athleticism. So then all of
(04:45):
a sudden you're having to you're literally having to say,
like how much football does this guy know? Because he
doesn't check the athlete boxes. And again, you know, when
we talk about this, we're talking relative right, Like he's
not a great athlete relative to his peers, doesn't mean he's.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Done right, right, right right athlete he has, he has
average athleticism for his position as opposed to these guys
that know well and Frankly, the other guy who might
maka I startd was it wasn't he for like a
year and a half a consensus safety one, only.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
To have only to have what's his name, nick Emminwori one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
He's ginormous six three two twenty Like remember Isaiah Simmons,
He's built almost like Isaiah Simmons. He's not quite as
as heavy, but he's as athletic as as Isaiah Simmons
was coming out of college. He's six three two twenty
four three eight forty twenty twenty reps of the forty
(05:56):
three inch vertical leap at six foot three and and
uh and then eleven foot six.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I guess what does that come to? One hundred and
thirty eight games broad Yeah, those are that's absurd.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
They're video game numbers, man, and it's just not something
that you see very often. And that's what you know.
So and then you have two things from that, right,
So you have Okay, is he Obi Melifonwu, you know,
the freak athlete out of Yukon back in twenty seventeen,
(06:30):
never really made anything of his career, was out of
the league in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Second round pick. By the way, I mean, to be.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Fair, he was on the Patriots super Bowl team, but
you know, out of league after two seasons? Or is
he you know, Jeremy chen Is he one of these
guys that have turned out to be these just completely dominant.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Really good players.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
And so that's that's again the thing you're having to
go is, like, are we gonna get Eddie jack and
Javon Holland out of Malachi Starks or are we gonna
get Lewis Scene. Remember Lewis Scene was a Georgia safety
drafted in the first round. Uh, and he's he's started
zero games in his career, played in seven or sorry,
(07:16):
played in eleven games and a first round pick. Guys like,
it's just one of those situations that you look at
and that's that's what you have to go with. And
so for the Cardinals, it's great that they don't have
to worry about either of these guys. They're very you know,
I think both of them are gonna be good players. Starks,
I see, really he can fill that Javon Hall in
Eddie Jackson role. Like he's not a superior athlete, but
(07:39):
he has superior instincts on tape and it shows up
Amana Warr is more of a gamble to me, like
he's a freak athlete. Uh you know, you put him
in that in like I said that Jeremy chen Derwin
James category.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
But are you going like obviously those are the high end.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
That's the best case scenario out of those guys is
are you gonna end up getting him or are you
gonna end up getting you know, the the litany, the
you know, the minefield of Obi milafan Wu going even
back further, uh tj McDonald, Josh Jones, like all these
(08:17):
guys that everybody drooled over but never really made it
in the league. I mean Josh Jones remember coming out
of uh North Carolina State second round pick to the Packers.
Everybody's like, oh, it's I mean the Packers with that
secondary right, they're gonna and ended up playing for four teams,
(08:41):
got a little bit of run with the with the
uh uh sorry five teams, and got a little run
with the Seattle Seahawks. But I mean in six years
he started twenty nine games. Like that's that's the thing
within Manawari that you're gonna have to look at and decipher,
you know, and then from there it's really interesting because
(09:03):
there's not much in this class. Xavier Watts, the talented safety.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Out of Notre Dame.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Uh he he came in extremely average in his in
his numbers, I mean, came in under six feet, came
in just over two hundred pounds, uh with with really
really small hands, something you don't see too often from
defensive backs.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Right.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Uh So, you know, and again he's he's been looked
at as a late second, early third. From there you
have Andrew Macouba, who I think didn't he just have
his pro day the other day with with the rest
of Texas, and I don't think he tested very well
if I remember, right, and and you know, you look
(09:52):
at him, he's a little undersized, right, five five eleven
six real short arms, had a good four at four
four five, but nothing like that you're gonna write home
about where you're like, oh, this is a guy. I mean,
he's very again kind of just a guy and that's
why you're seeing him go from an early day two
(10:12):
pick to you know, I've seen him all the way
in late round three.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
To day three.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
I do think we need to mention a local guy
that that tested really well, and local as in high
school Laythan Ransom out of Ohio State. Uh, you know,
came in checks a lot of the boxes in terms
of the size, right that we we just talked about
(10:41):
over six feet over. He came in over two hundred pounds. Again,
these guys have really small hands. But I think at
his pro day Ransom ran a sub four five and
he might have even been faster than that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I'm double checking. You know, he's a guy out of
South Point down in two on.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
And and you you look at him, Yeah, he came
in right at four or five, So you know, you
look at him as a guy that he's going to
go on day three, Like I would be really surprised
if you went on the second day of the draft.
But a local guy, great teammate, really really good special
(11:25):
teams guy. Uh, you know, checks all of those boxes.
So you know, it's one of those situations where you
look at and you say, okay, Like he's a guy
that based on how safeties get drafted. And this is
something we talk about every year, right you If you
can be a special teams guy immediately and potentially turn
(11:47):
into a starter, that's great. But if you're just a
special teams guy forever.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Nobody really cares, right, No, if you make a career
out of special teams.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
While you might wish.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
You could do more as a player, if you have
a ten year career specialty. Let's think about this. Justin
Bethel just retired. What was it like a year ago,
maybe it was this offseason. He was drafted in twenty
twelve is out of the sixth round, wasn't it some
tiny school?
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, and he was.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Great on special teams and like the Cardinals paid him
like a potential good corner, didn't work out and then
just stuck around the NFL and never made another Pro
Bowl as a special teamer after he left the Cardinals,
but played for another decade.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Right, I mean you think about it, just like twelve
years in the NFL is absurd, I mean just absurd.
Three time Pro bowler, Like you said, six round pick
out of Presbyterian, you know, so like that's what that's
kind of what you're looking at when you're when you're
talking about safeties, right, and this class, it's really just
the other guy that that I've seen ranked highly that
(13:02):
we should mention Billy Bowman, the safety out of out
of Oklahoma. But he's a little bit different five ten
one nineties, so he's kind of a more compactly built guy.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
She's a Buddha. Jalen Thompson and Rabbit. All those guys
are smaller than your typical safeties.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Yeah, and and super super short arms, and it shows
up on film like a guy that is a is
a very aggressive downhill player but misses a lot of
tackles and you go, you know, how do we fix that?
And it's like, I don't know if you can. Like
you're talking about a guy that's literally in the zero
(13:41):
percentile for arm length twenty eight and a half inches
is is?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I mean?
Speaker 5 (13:46):
And everything else is is above average, but like arm
length that short, it's really really hard because you can't.
You have to be insanely in stinctual, like insanely instinctual.
And there have been a guy that got drafted I
(14:06):
think in the fourth round. Uh that's I think he
was even a pro bowler. I'm double checking. No, never
a pro bowler, but had a has had a good career. Yes,
he was drafted in the fourth round. Jordan Whitehead. He
has very very similar uh measurables. So he's like one
of the few outliers that you can find that works out. Uh,
(14:28):
you know that sub five eleven, uh, you know, in
that midnight one ninety range. But and even even Whitehead's arms,
and I know it might seem nitpicky, but even Whitehead's
armed for an inch and a quarter longer than Bowman's.
Like Bowman's arms, I've never seen this bo like I've
never like when you look at the percentiles on like
(14:49):
mock draftable and stuff like that, I've never seen a
guy come in in the zero percentile for arm length
and and so like he is and so and so
that that's the thing. It's an outlier pick. And and
that's if you look at any profile on Bowman, it's
always going to say like he he you know, can
be overly aggressive and mistackles or inconsistent tackler or something
(15:12):
to that nature. Well, I think a lot of it
is he's got really short arms, and so it's hard
for him to wrap, especially when you're that you know,
undersized at five ten one ninety so. And then you
get into the the freaks you know, and the special
athletes and that stuff. And that's that's kind of how
(15:34):
that goes in the draft, right, Just like the seventh
round you just start throwing. You just kind of start
throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Right, Right, A guy like Jonah Sanker, right, I know,
he's a guy that mel Kuyper has mentioned a few times.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Where is is he going to be a Day two
or Day three guy?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
He'll be a day he's got production. Yeah, he'll be
a Day three guy. I mean he is.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
He's a little bigger at six foot two oh six,
had good numbers, you know, four four eight forty really
good and above out.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Very good tackling. He's led the he led the ACC
two years in a row, and solo tackles. If you.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
In terms of the type of the Cardinals have a
safety like that in Buddha Baker, who's incredibly tackle productive.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
And Sanker was that he did have. He did break
up eleven.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Passes for Virginia in twenty twenty three, but has two
career interceptions. But he's a guy that you can he's more.
He's definitely a box guy, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Yeah, And that's what you have to look at. It's
like you you have that in spades and signed you know.
And but the one thing about Sanker is he's a phenomenal,
phenomenal special teams player.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That's that's where he looks that that that would be
something if the Cardinals. If the Cardinals draft the safety,
they're gonna have special teams upside.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And let's not.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Forget now, granted Buddha Baker, they traded up in the
sacred round for him.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
What did he do with his first year?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
He was a special teamer and a probe special team
or until the safety he got hurt. It was a
pretty good safety was having a pretty good.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Year here and Johnson.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
No, it wasn't ra Shad. Johnson was a guy that
brought it in free safety. They brought in as a
free agent that year. And I'm it it was his
only year. He broke his arm or something. I think
that was the last year he played. I'm gonna have
to look that up. Twenty seven Cardinals and I'm gonna
pick myself.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
But yeah, I mean, so that's the thing is you
look at you look at it overall. Uh, you know
this is a it's a position where there they are loaded,
which is you know, great, They've got a lot of talent.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Time on branch by the way, Uh, that was the
one Tithon branch.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
But there are a couple of guys that you can
you know, you look at you. You mentioned uh Sanker.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Another one, R J. Mickens out of Clemson.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
Uh, the guy that like kind of blew up the
combine and you're like, I don't know where he's gonna
fit with this whole thing. But Marquis Single out of
Kansas State, I mean Single came in at five eleven,
two hundred pounds and then ran a four to three
seven and jumped out of the building.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So like, you go, he's a.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Guy that can play special teams. He was a team captain.
You know, those are the guys that you're, yeah, taking
the sixth, seventh round. And by the way, it's Single,
not Single, I apologize, but yeah, I mean those and
you know, those are the guys that end up getting
drafted there because that's where that's where you take safeties
(18:36):
like him. And one more guy, Kitten Crawford out of
Nevada five eleven, two h two and he ran a
four to four one but then jump forty one and
a half inches, So like, again, a guy that's probably
never going to be an every down player, but he's
going to be in the NFL for you know, seven
(18:58):
eight nine years as a special teams contributor.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And with that, those are names to know about the
safeties coming to next on the Rise of Secret Podcasts,
I be start Cardinals talking moment. Let's talk about another
position that doesn't have a lot of depth, but we
could see a guy drafted early that's inside linebacker that's
coming to next rise ups he read, We're back on
the Rise of Secret podcast best are Cardinals talk on
the web. We're jumping from safety to inside linebacker safety
(19:23):
because it's kind of an over we're kind of overlooking
at the position, but inside linebacker is legitimately a position
of need. However, this class is would you say it's
extremely top heavy with probably the first two or three
and then after that it's just those are just Day
three guys that you get.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, there's I want to I wanna go over five.
So there's I think there's two Day one guys with
the bullet Uh, it'll be interesting to see what and
how they kind of grade those guys. And again just
depends on what you're looking at. We're gonna go off
(20:06):
the consensus big board. But then the problem with the
consensus big board in this instance is the number one
guy is not on there, and that's Jalen Walker out
of Georgia.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
So Walker as an edge guy.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
But yeah, so so Walker is getting looked at as
as you know, if you go to Lance Airlines rankings,
he's a linebacker. If you go to other rankings, he's
an edge. So he's a tough guy, but you know,
he's the guy. And in our community mock draft through
through ESBI Nation, that's who I picked at sixteen because
(20:40):
I was like, dude, if and by the way, I
don't think there's any chance Jayleen Walker's on the board,
so that who I think they're going to pick. But
in that scenario, in that way, Jalen Walker at sixteen
would be a slam dunk because he's a guy that
can play will linebacker in this defense and then he
can he's a guy that you can start to utilize
(21:02):
off the edge in packages and stuff like that. So
he's a guy that never comes off the field the
kind of consensus number one. But again you're kind of like,
all right, where we where do we grade him? Where
do we use him? Jihat Campbell out of out of Alabama, Campbell,
you know, is the kind of prototype build six three
(21:23):
two thirty five ran a four or five two forty
at the at the combine. I mean, there's not a
lot of negatives to combine with Camble.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
He he's really good sidelined to sideline, he can move
and he can.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Rush off the edge as well. So yeah, and that's
the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So you know what, what the Cardinals like what they
have in mac Wilson, say, say they want mac Wilson
to be the MIC this year. Joh Hot Campbell's kind
of the perfect guy to have next to him, wouldn't
it be.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
And the one thing with Campbell, and it's a conversation
we have all the time about linebackers in general, is
I do worry about his instincts. He looks a little
slow in recognition, but he's such a superior athlete that
he makes up for it. But he's a guy that
can play like you said that that that will linebacker position.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
He can move down on the edge.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
And he's got to continue to build that that anticipatory stuff.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
However, he has things that you can't teach. One. He's
fantastic in coverage, just absolutely electrical and coverage so from there,
you're like, well, let's you know, I take that, and
he does.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Then that's the biggest question is his surgery was after
the combine. So he did the combine, which is super admirable.
Nobody's gonna but nobody can get a follow up in
terms of how healthy he is during the top thirty visits.
(22:59):
And that's a thing that I mean, if you're drafting
sixteenth overall, aren't you going, I gotta see if this
guy's gonna be healthy for this season, right like? And
so that's the thing. So so we can say, and
we can say with assurance that you know, maybe there's
a reason they brought in a guy like a Keen
Davis Gater, right like, they look at it and they go, hey,
(23:21):
if Campbell's there, we snatch him up, and we worry
about the health in year two because we don't feel
like we have to get him on the field immediately.
He can heal up and play the next guy that
I love. You know, if there was a pick to
be made at forty seven, this is this is who
(23:43):
I would take, depending on how run one goes. But
that's that's Carson Swessinger. He's a Day two guy. How
do U c l a a guy that they haven't interviewed,
but they've interviewed his team. He made Otafonway and I
talked about him on the site the other day. Atafahnway
(24:06):
was kind of a guy that was basically DOA in
terms of draft stock, and now he's being talked about
in the third I haven't even seen second round when
he moved outside as pass rusher. To coincide with that,
you got a guy in Swesssenger who came in and
(24:32):
and became a Day two with a bullet linebacker prospect.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
The biggest thing with Swssenger is you kind of looked
at him and you're like, ah, he looks a little
light in the pants, right like, and and then this
year he becomes a first team All Pro. He finished
with one hundred and thirty six tackles.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Odd country and solo tackles with ninety.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Now he did like his His college stuff is sports
Wress of the College Football Data Base had almost at
six two two ten.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
He's clearly bulked up as he came in at the combine.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
At two forty two, so he has added some size
to him. The question is how much what what do
you think with his actual playing weight was was it
in the two thirties, probably as opposed to what was
listed before before.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
I would I think he played in the two twenties
and he's continuing to get bigger. The thing you have
to remember what Swesssnger is. One, he was a walk on.
Two he was a special teamer, so he felt like
he needed to be athletic enough to move and run.
But you know he came into the combine at two
forty two and then he tested out of this world.
(25:44):
I mean just jumped out of the building thirty nine
and a half inches at six two two forty two.
And so this is you know, this is where you
have to have to make a call. Right Sweestnger instinctually
is way and I mean way above Jihah Campbell right
(26:05):
now as a linebacker. He just understands and reads it
to an extent that is insanely difficult to teach and
prepare a.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Guy for.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
All that being said, is is he a guy that
you feel like can play in the two you know,
the two thirties or two forties? And is he a
guy that can hold up if he has to play
in the two thirties or two twenties. Those are questions
(26:41):
that you and I can't answer, right. But this dude,
this dude looks the part. He instinctually gets it, and
he is the best at diagnosing and making tackles out
of any of the linebackers in this class in my opinion,
(27:02):
and that's why I would take him at forty seven
without hesitation. If Walker and Campbell aren't the picks in
round one, A couple more guys that we should mention
that could go on on Day two, So round two,
Round three. Demetrius Knight out of South Carolina. Night is
older he was at and he's been around the block
(27:25):
a little bit. Was that Georgia Tech in twenty nineteen,
Georgia Tech in twenty twenty, Georgia Tech in twenty twenty one,
and then Georgia Tech in twenty twenty two, but only
played in four games in red shirted. Then he went
to Charlotte, So Charlotte is a is that No, that's
(27:45):
a FBS school now right anyways, and finally started and
was fantastic and then ended up going to South Carolina
and really blooming into this guy that that is going
to be a Day two pick he is he you know,
the problem is he's a six year player, so he's
(28:06):
going to be twenty five this year.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
That's that's always tough. Uh.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
So you're looking at it and something we talk about
and I don't remember if we talked about on this show,
but I think I've mentioned it before. Linebackers are kind
of like running backs, right Like, if you get him
in the third round and you get four years out
of him, or maybe even a fifth year or six year,
you're happy. But like they kind of you know, you
kind of use them and lose them, right Like, they
(28:30):
get banged up because they're on the field for usually
ninety eight to one plays and and in today's game,
these guys are playing at six two, two thirty five,
but they're running sub for six forties, so they're freak
athletes having to run into three hundred pound linemen all
the time, uh to try to make these plays. So
they just they just go really quick. That's my concern
(28:54):
about Night. You know, if he's there at that and
in that seventy six range, I don't think that's a
that's an issue. Obviously, having not drafted one in round
one or two, but before that, I would steer clear.
I like him as a player, so I don't want
anybody to think I don't like him, but those are
those are my concerns about him. And then the last
(29:15):
guy is the other Georgia linebacker, but he is he's
light six two twenty four smell Malden or Mandan excuse me.
UH tested really well four five eight forty, really explosive
broad jump ten foot ten inch broad jump, and then
(29:35):
was a top thirty overall recruit and then started UH
for three seasons. Now there's two things. He's missed some
games with some lower body injuries, which is always a
concern for me with an undersized guy. But he is
an insanely instinctive and physical player.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
For his size.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
And I know people are saying two twenty four that's
not small, but for a linebacker, it's small. And he
might be the best coverage linebacker in the draft. And
so if you're talking about you mentioned you know Mac earlier.
If you're talking about Mac and you go, you go,
oh man with Mac, he's the Mic Mandon. He's the
(30:23):
will like I don't have it. There's like he's the guy,
and he is explosive, he can run, He tackles. Well,
he's just like I just he's been banged up, missed
time in twenty two, miss time in twenty three, missed
a lot of time in twenty four. And the way
(30:44):
he plays, the physicality he plays, I mean, it's a
lot like Buddha, And you know, Buddha I think has
done a really really nice job of being able to avoid,
you know, the big hits and being run over and
things like that. But man, he That's the thing about
Mandan that concerns me the most is that he's going
(31:06):
to be a guy that just can't hold up. But again,
in the seventies, I'm willing to take that risk because
you're talking about a guy that you're like, all right,
if I get, if I get four years out of them,
and if I can get you know, fifteen plus games
this season for four years, that's a win. But I
(31:28):
just don't know, with the concerning injury history, if you're
going to even get.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
That who names that, I'm imagining you're probably gonna be
solid Day three options. But they were the headliners on
the defenses in the National Championship game. Jack Tizer for
a Notre Dame, Cody Simon for Ohio State. Do they
have a future in the NFL in terms of what
they can do?
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
I mean Simon's Simon's a big guy. Again, he falls
into the like, I think he's been around since the
first Obama administration if I remember right, No, I mean
he's been around for five years. I think he was
a red shirt two, so I think six years even.
But like, this is a dude that is instinctual, understands
(32:15):
the game and makes plays on the ball six two thirty.
But he's not athletic. So like you're taking you're you're
taking a shot, and and to your point, that's why
you're gonna draft him on day three. You're gonna take
a guy that is gonna end up being undersigh or
(32:35):
you know, a little undersized in the two thirties too,
you know, high two twenties, doesn't have incredibly long arms,
and isn't the best athlete. Like so you're basically like,
all right, I trust your instincts to the moon. And
that's you know, we've seen those guys who's the kid
(32:56):
out of how shucks out of you of a that
did a little stint with the Cardinals too, but got
drafted by the Browns.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Anyways, I I just play and he's still playing like
in the ufluh I.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
But you know, people will know who I'm talking about
and scream at us for not remembering. But but yeah,
that's who he reminds me of. I mean, his high
end comp that I've seen that that I don't mind
is like Blake Martinez, who's had a really nice career.
But I mean Blake Martinez has been on like four
teams in that time in the NFL, and he's a Again,
(33:34):
if that's what you get in the in the fourth
or fifth round, that's a that's a hell of a pick.
That's a I mean, Blake Martinez been around and and
I think last year was his last year fourth round
pick and he play he started seventy nine yeah, and
so you know, and and Martinez started.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Like eighty gaytons in his career.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
So again you're not You're not looking at it and
going this is a negative like you're saying, oh, this
is a really this is a positive thing about Simon,
Like that would be the high end. And but that's
the problem with guys like that is and Kiger's kind
of in that same bag, right, Like Kaiser is not
the best athlete.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
He is for sure older. He's been around the block.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
He started, He started in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, so he's been around forever. You know.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Again, same same type of thing, six two, two thirty linebacker,
like nothing bad.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
He's on his third NFL contract by now, right.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Right will be twenty five years old in September. Very
average athlete, but super super instinctual, super instinctual, and it
has been a special team's captain for years. So like,
so again, you're talking about a guy that you're probably taking.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
In round five six that is going to.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Be around forever in the league, you know, five, six, seven,
eight years, But not a guy that you're you're drafting early.
A couple other guys we should mention Chris Paul Junior.
I don't think he's related to Chris Paul, but you know,
he's a he's a really intriguing guy. I've seen some
people mock him in the second round. I disagree wholeheartedly.
(35:29):
He's undersized the first thing, you know, under thirty terms,
and and again, if he's six two and two forty
two and he runs a four to sixty three, you're fine
with that. But everything else, like you said, but he
is a guy that is really instinctual, and he's physical
(35:56):
for a size, and he's a downhill guy. If you
got him in round four or like you you had
a trade back and you ended up with an extra
third round pick, I think that's the perfect utilization for
Paul right in that area. And he's a guy that
I can see being successful and playing in the league.
It's just gonna have to be in a defense that
(36:17):
that is able to utilize his talents. The guys you
know that I've seen are kind of matched up with him.
Diane Hinley, the kid that came out of Washington State
by way of Nevada that went late in the third
round to the to the Chargers.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
I like that, Like that's the same.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
Type of player I see and and I think he
would be, you know again, in that range, I think
he'd be a good fit. Danny Stutsman out of Oklahoma,
a little bit bigger, six three two thirty three, really
good times at four five to two. Not super explosive
in the in the jump switch. Not shocking to see
(36:59):
that based on his film. But he is a really
really good run defender, extremely physical, but he's not, like
I said, he's not explosive, So, like you're the question
becomes where does he fit and and how how much
(37:21):
can you get out of him? A guy I've seen
him comp too, that's been a good player in the NFL.
I wouldn't say he's been, you know, great, he's had
he's had really good seasons.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
But like Pete Werner out of Ohio State and he
went in the second round. I don't see any way
that uh Stutsman goes in the second round. But I've
been shocked before. But he's a.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Guy, you know, I've seen, you know, Jermaine Pratt another
you know comp that I've seen. Jermaine Pratt's been fine
right in in Sincy and for all those years. But again,
not a guy that you are like, you're like, oh man,
I wish the Cardinals had a Jermaine Pratt type player,
right like?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And so no, not really And but this basically is
the linebacker position philosophically, is it?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
What makes sense at least.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
What the Cardinals are are likely doing is you do
with good enough until you find someone special.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
Yeah, And that's I think what they keep doing. And
that's the whole like, you know, continue to throw things
at the Wall type thing. And I know people are like, well,
you got to go get one, but it's like, look,
the best linebackers in the NFL, the the best ones.
You either take a guy that is insanely instinctual, that
(38:44):
has been phenomenal, like a Roquan Smith right like that
you took in the top ten and he became an
All pro type, or you get lucky and you get
a Fred Warner. I mean that's that's the thing that
gets me is like everybody's like, oh, you need to
(39:06):
find Fred Warner. It's like, well, Fred Warner was drafted
in the third round. Like nobody wanted Fred Warner. You know,
the Cardinals could I mean the forty nine ers could
have taken Fred Warner four different times. You know, Zach
Bond was on his second team, like he was basically
an afterthought. I mean, Zach Bond started fourteen games in
(39:31):
his career for the Saints. They spent a third round
pick on it. So a lot of it's just.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
Luck, you know. I know people don't love to hear that,
but a lot of it's luck.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
And the luck doesn't mean you do have good scouting,
but it's it's like the Brock purty thing. They were
lucky because seventh round quarterbacks rarely turn out to be
anything in the NFL, and they were lucky because they
completely whipped on the Tree Lance one.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
But yeah, let's move on from that.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Coming Ax on the Rice of here podcast been Best
car Cardinals talking, Well, let's dive into the cornerback position,
a position the Cardinals love to draft. That's coming next,
and he read back on the right of secret podcast
Best are Cardinals. The Cardinals love cornerbacks. They have drafted
five in the last two seasons, three last year, and
over the last two years, three picks in the top
(40:29):
ninety have been to the cornerback position. And yet that
doesn't mean they're not going to take a cornerback.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
In round one.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
As you know, Will Johnson is getting mocked more and
more often to the Cardinals, the guy that was probably
viewed as a top ten pick, not you know, in
thee in the months before, but now could see a
little bit of a fall because well, he doesn't have
the great speed, but he's got the playmaking. He's a
great cornerback. Travis Hunter. Yes, he's he's special. He's going
(41:01):
to be in the top three of He's gonna be picked.
He's gonna be pick number two overall. So that's great.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Daniel Jeremiah has has six, I think six or seven
cornerbacks in his top fifty, and one of them is
Gravis Hunter. But Will Johnson comes in at number two.
What is really good about him? And is the long
speed really a concern that we should have?
Speaker 5 (41:30):
No, And that's just based on how the Cardinals use
their corner deploy their corners. And you know, I wrote
about this when I wrote about Will Johnson, and I
think some people took it as a negative and I
really didn't mean it that way. But you know, what
do I know? But Will Johnson's like high end comp
to me is all pro James Bradberry. Remember Bradbury was
(41:55):
an All Pro in his one season with with Jonathan Gannon. Now,
I'm not gonna saying that Will Johnson's gonna be an
all Pro if he.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Comes to the arison the Cardinals.
Speaker 5 (42:07):
That's an outlandish statement to make, but I could see
that being kind of who he is as a player
is a guy that has an insane amount of success
because he fits into the scheme so well similar size.
(42:29):
I mean, obviously Bradberry's a little thicker as he's gotten older.
But when he came out of wherever he came out of,
I know it was a small school Sandford. You know,
he was he was about two ten.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
You know.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
Will Johnson's a little taller, a little bit leaner at
one ninety five. But remember Bradbury ran a four to five,
didn't have great jumps, three cone and short shuttle just okay,
and he's had a great career. That's the guy that
I see in the player. I see Will Johnson having
(43:08):
the chance to be And again it's you know, I
know people will be like, well, you're saying like a
small stretch of Bradbury's career, and it's like, yeah, but
that's that's what Will Johnson could be potentially every year.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I mean, that's how good he was.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
And that's what you hope that he could be like
that consistently.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
Right, And so yeah, I mean the long speed isn't
a concern to me because of that. I mean, I
know everybody is excited and gets excited about these these burners,
and you know, but the guy was a freak. In
twenty twenty two, as a freshman, he was the one
(43:47):
of the best, if not the best corner in the
country in twenty twenty three as a sophomore, and he
won MVP of the defensive MVP of.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
The National Championship game. I mean, how good he was.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
And and then obviously was an ap AL American thirteen
this year despite not I mean six games, and that's
how good he was. But that goes to the concerns.
I mean, this is a guy that's been nicked up
two years in a row. You know, he's he's coming
off a hamstring that has prevented him from even being
(44:26):
able to work out. Those are concerns, man. I mean,
I I don't know any other way to say that.
And so like if you if you get the medicals
and you say the medicals are great, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
You know, it's all it's all go. If you say I.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
Don't know, I mean, this is a guy that that
is nicked up all the time, couldn't do X, Y
or z I, then I don't think you could pull
the trigger.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
And that's just that's just the reality of it. Uh,
you know. And and here's the thing. From what I'm
he's gonna go.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
He's gonna go to Las Vegas at what six or
something like that, So it may be a moot point
at this point, so that I means.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
So then so then we moved to Johnny barn. We've
talked a little bit about him in one of our
mock draft shows where we broke down.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
A mock draft.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But the more they talk about Johnny Barn, you know
who he kind of reminds me of in terms of
what they think he can do at the next level.
It's a guy I actually personally disliked for a number
of years on the cars that inentrol role because he
failed as a boundary corner. But when he found it,
(45:38):
when they put him in a playmaker role, playing nickel
playing safety, he ended up with a really nice NFL career.
Is Johnny Baron kind of that guy because the people
seem to be more talking about him as playmaker and
less as boundary cover guy.
Speaker 5 (45:55):
Yeah, And That's where I'm at with him. I really
like the player, but you know, I see a guy
and Baron who is like a big nickel safety. I
don't know how much you want to use him outside consistently.
And that's that's where my question is with Baron, right,
you know.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
So he with with Baron, if you take him, you
have to believe that you can put Garrett Williams and
play him on the boundary full time, right.
Speaker 5 (46:23):
Yeah, And and that's that's the question. And but here's this.
You know, with the Cardinals zone heavy scheme, he's a
guy that can play and he's a play maker, so
I don't mind it. But again, I think he's gonna go.
I think he'll probably end up getting drafted by the
(46:46):
forty nine ers, so I don't I don't think he'll
even be on the board when the Cardinals go up.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
So if if that's the case, if Baron's off the board,
Johnson's on the board. Is there any other cornerback worth
looking at number sixteen or only looking back? Any trade
back scenario?
Speaker 4 (47:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (47:05):
I think trade back scenario. I don't think there's another
one that you would want to take two guys that
are getting like in a round one mentioned though, so
we can at least mention it. I don't know if
the Cardinals have met with Maxwell harriston the Kentucky corner
five eleven three Blaze the four forty. But you know
the thing with him is he's got good, good arm length,
(47:28):
He's lean, but I mean, not overlyly, not like the
kid out of Mississippi State a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
Right, But he's a guy.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
This is more like DRC. He's more like DRC build.
Speaker 5 (47:42):
Yeah, yeah, and plays a lot like DRC, who ended
up being you know, fantastic, right, and the Cardinals traded
him away or whatever.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
I'm not gonna talk about it, so.
Speaker 5 (47:53):
Yeah, right exactly, so you know, you look at him,
he's a guy. The question I have with him is again,
and he had a good he had a good season
last year in twenty three, but smaller like we just
talked about, or leaner like we just talked about, and
miss five games with the shoulder injury this year. Again,
(48:15):
I'm just like, that's I don't know, not my jam
because he is actually physical for a size, and that's
my concern is, this is a guy that likes to
be physical, likes to mix it up, and he's he's
lean and already had a shoulder issue just and and
he's a freak athlete. So you know, those are always
(48:37):
concerns a guy they have met with I know, and
he is a tall, long, really talented guy who made
the jump from the Sunbelt to the sec and so
you know, that's what you like to see. And then
and then transferred from Bama over to Ole Miss this year,
and that's Trey Amos.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (48:58):
You know, Amos is a guy that you look at
and he is he's a good athlete, but he has
really good instincts and he likes to be physical and
he's a little more built for that physicality. Now, he's
not huge by any means. I don't want anybody to
(49:19):
think I'm saying that, but you know, coming in at
six foot one one ninety five with a really good
long wingspan, that's a guy that you look at and
you go, Okay, I like I like his I like
his cut, for how he likes to play and what
he does. I've seen some comps like AJ Terrell. Obviously,
(49:41):
we talked about that the other night. I'm not a
huge fan of comping guys to all pros, but you know,
AJ Terrell went in sixteenth overall, so he's a guy
that you know, if he went in the back in
the first round, it would make a lot of sense.
The one thing I'll say that that kind of scarce
me about Amos is he's a little bit of a gambler,
(50:04):
and we know that that can backfire on guys. So that's,
you know, something to keep in mind with Amos from there.
I think Chavon Ravell, who will talk about in a second,
would have been but coming off the knee injury, I
think he ends up going on Day two.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Another guy that probably would have been a first round
pick is Benjamin Morrison, on a Notre Dame who has
apparently a connection to the team that his dad's a
team chaplain here, although I thought it was with Washington,
I thought I saw Adam Schefter mentioning that Bett Morrison's
dad is a team chaplain with the Cardinals. So and
he's from Phoenix, he went high school. But you know, Benjamino,
(50:40):
Ben Morrison, like you'd be mentioned, he'd be more of
a cause he's got that hip injury that he's coming
off of. They could they could the Cardinals pull off
a Garrett Williams type scenario, getting him in round three
and then red shirting him essentially and building him for
the future.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
If you get a guy like that.
Speaker 5 (50:57):
Yeah, and and he's, like you said, the local connection,
multiple local connections, and then you know, just the talent.
I mean, he was a guy that was going to
be a Day one pick, like you said, and then
just was injured. He was a very good corner in
his time at Notre Dame, really good, strong ties to
the community.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
The biggest thing with him again is he's a little
bit of.
Speaker 5 (51:18):
A he's a little bit of a gambler and things
of that nature. But I mean, freshman All American had
ten pass breakups and three interceptions last year and then
only played in six games that had four PBUs. So
it was really you know, on the rise to be
to be a you know, a first round type of
(51:41):
guy before the injuries. So you know, I like Morrison.
Another guy, Shavon Ravel, He's another interesting one, right just
because he's the he's the long guy in the draft,
six almost thirty three inch arms played at Louisbourg before
(52:01):
making the move over to East Carolina and then was
really really good at East Carolina. But the question is
what's his athleticism, right, So you got.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
To and he's coming off the ACL tier too, right,
so you.
Speaker 4 (52:15):
Can't even test him. You're not going to know.
Speaker 5 (52:17):
You're gonna have to really rely on your scouts and
your medical staff to have this guy, you know, in
the right spot. But I think if he would have
been able to test and tested, you know, in that
sub four or five range, he probably would have been
a guy that you were talking about with Amos and
and Harston.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Other guys stood that the one guy that stood out
in terms of athletically. If you look at Ohio States
to hen Porter six three five thirty three thirty three
inch arms or three forty uh six seven to win
three cone thirty six and a half burnt one hundred
and thirty one inch broad jump. Where does he fall
(52:56):
in terms of that? Obviously he's a freak, but where
does he fall in terms of where he might fall
in the draft?
Speaker 4 (53:03):
I like him a lot, man, I really do.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
And and a guy that's been good, not great in
the NFL that he kind of probably comps out to
pretty well, but again win the fifth round. So we're
talking hugely different here. Zion McCollum. You remember Zion McCollum
out of sam Houston State three years y.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yes, and then Porter's older because he did he's been
he'd been at Iowa State since twenty nineteen, so he's
pre pandemic.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
So he is older, but.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
Yeah, and he's he's a really productive player.
Speaker 5 (53:41):
But this is this is what the issue is with Porter,
the biggest issue and you you mentioned the age. He
didn't play a whole lot chess. So he played in
twelve games as a reserve last year, So twenty three,
played in twelve games as a reserve the year before
(54:02):
in twenty two, played in thirteen games as a reserve
in twenty one, and then played in twelve games as
a reserve in twenty twenty. That's a like, if you're
that big of a freak of nature, why did it
take you six years to get a start. And I'm
not going to try to throw shade, but like at
Iowa State, it's not like you were at Bama, not
(54:24):
like you were at Georgia.
Speaker 4 (54:26):
It's not like they're producing these these day one draft
pick guys, right, or you're getting five star recruits.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
You're at But he does have he was really good
on special teams.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
He had he blocked four punts in college, really good gunner.
So at least there's that sight, Like so that makes
him a day three guy, right that you could find
him probably round five likely, I think he's.
Speaker 5 (54:53):
Going to go on day two just because you don't
find that size and speed.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
Ever, I'm just stin Well, then that's that's fun.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Uh, a guy that that If you want a guy
who can make plays on the ball, how about Noel
Williams out of out of cal who had a kind
of nation leading seven interceptions last season.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
Yeah, and Williams is a guy that a lot of production,
but he didn't test exactly well. And and he's a
guy that while he's played a ton, he is a
guy that I think gets away with being more instinctual
than he is elite athletically six ft two hundred pounds,
(55:41):
some thirty one inch arms, four or five forty just
average jumps, but second team ap All American. When you're
talking about a guy that you know he had nine
pass breakup sixteen passes defense and and you talked about
seven iron t's led college football this year, that's going
(56:02):
to be the question mark. Is he is he a
gambler that got away with it playing at you know,
bad schools against bad competition, or is he a guy
that you can you can win with consistently. Kobe Bryant
out of Kansas is another one that's you know, been
around the block for a while. He's had some good
games he's had some good film and you watch.
Speaker 4 (56:24):
Him play.
Speaker 5 (56:28):
And you see what he can do, and you know
I would I wouldn't hate him on day three either.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Just all right, anybody else before we wrap this up,
because I know you got to get out of here.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
Any other names to throw out there for day three?
Speaker 5 (56:43):
I mean Denzel Burke, another local kid, been at Ohio
State what feels like forever. He's a guy that you know,
has good movement skills, been productive, but had really big
ups and down. I think he would make sense on
day three. And that's really it. I mean, there's the
problem is with these corners and just like safeties, like now,
(57:05):
you're kind of taking stabs at guys right based on athleticism.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
And the right things right.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
And with that, we will wrap up this edition of
the Rest of Here podcast, Best Our Cardinals Talk the Way.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
We'll be back for.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
One more positional preview show where we will talk about quarterbacks,
running backs, and tight ends next next week, as well
as our kind of our seven round hopes for the Cardinals.
That's seth Cox, I'm just Ruth. Thanks for listening. As always,
we will be back again soon. Thanks for listening to
the latest edition of the Rise Up See Red podcast,
(57:38):
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