Are Christians Dead To Self? Pt 2

Are christians truly dead to self?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is
the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good morning everyone.
It is Tuesday, April fifteenth, twenty twenty five. It is
currently eleven seventeen am Central Time, and I'm coming to

(00:23):
you live from the Theology Central studio located right here
in Abilene, Texas. Now, sometimes I get really upset with myself,
right because it's almost like I build the trap and
I walk into it as far as broadcasting is concerned,
because a lot of times I'll start thinking about something

(00:46):
and then I'll be like, Okay, well, this is kind
of an interesting idea. Maybe I'll do a broadcast about
this or about that, and then the next thing you know,
I've walked into this trap of well, you're here, and
there's no easy way to get out of this. You're
just gonna have to keep doing episode after episode after
episode until you can bring this to some kind of
conclusion or it's just going to be kind of left

(01:07):
there now. And to be honest, most of the time,
I think people are not really worried if I bring
it to a conclusion and don't bring it to a conclusion.
I think people just like, oh, it's content. I'll either listen,
don't listen, like it, don't like it, and they just
move on because they've got a million other things to
choose from. But in my mind, I'm like, man, did
I want to be stuck talking about this for six weeks?

(01:30):
Is this what I want to be focused on? But
in in other ways it'll be like, well, no, I
do want to be talking about this. But then I'll
get frustrated because I'm like, well, am I really getting
the point across? Does anyone else really care? Because we've
been talking about something over a number of different broadcasts
that I think is important. I just don't know if

(01:52):
anyone else sees the importance of it. And I know
I'm going against the vast majority of Christianity, but I
seek there The way Christians think about things I think
is so broken, and to challenge that always puts me
at odds with everyone. So then I think that's why
Sometimes then you don't hear anything because people are like,

(02:13):
that's just ridiculous. I just don't agree with that, and
they just move on. But here we are, so we've
got to talk about this, all right. So we have
been discussing things like how Christianity speaks on the subject
of fear, anxiety, worry, and I think they approach the
subject of fear, anxiety and worry from a law based perspective.

(02:38):
So I challenge that critique that and offered a gospel
based perspective, not a law based perspective. Right. I think
we did pretty good on that. It wasn't perfect, it
was okay, but all right, check did it finished it?
All right? Then we talked about how Christianity handles the
subject of pornography, once again from a law based perspective. Completely.

(03:03):
I think, miss, they really don't understand the deeper issues
surrounding something like pornography, So I challenge that critique it.
I think we did a pretty good job. Check. We're
onto something. Okay, we're kind of doing practical theology. We're
really okay. I think we're doing a pretty good job.
But because of the episodes about pornography, we got into

(03:27):
this deeper thing, this deeper thing about how human beings
are made, and because of the way we are made,
if we truly understand that, it gives us a better
understanding of sin. All right, So let me just kind
of summarize where we have been We've talked about Maslow's

(03:47):
hierarchy of needs, We've talked about physiological needs, psychological needs,
We've talked about a lot of these very important things.
And here's just some kind of basic things we've come
up with. All right, are you ready, here's some basic
This is somewhat of a review of what we did
in the last episode, but this hopefully will all make sense.
So we did three episodes on basically our Christians satisfied,

(04:11):
because Christians like to put forth this concept that if
you have Jesus, that's all you need, you should be
perfectly satisfied. You don't need anything else, You shouldn't be
longing for anything else, which, then, I mean, if we
were truly completely satisfied with Jesus, if it was even
remotely even plausible, possible, or true, well then Christians shouldn't

(04:32):
be sinning, because why would you be sinning? You don't
need anything. You've got Jesus. You should be perfectly content.
You should never be grumbling, complaining, you should never be
fighting or arguing because you've got Jesus. You literally don't
need anything else. We preach that, but the reality is
Christians are not truly satisfied why because this goes to
this deeper issue. And we did three parts on this.

(04:55):
There's an unshakable, undeniable reality about human being, and that
is you and I. We are built with deep needs.
They are inside of us. And this is where psychologists
and other areas of study have developed these what this
hierarchy of needs? We all have these needs, all right?

(05:18):
So we and we really have to drive this point home.
We you and I, we are creatures of design and dependence.
We need love, we need safety, we need intimacy, we
need belonging, we need purpose, we need pleasure, we need connection,
we need identity. These are some of the needs we are.

(05:40):
It's so deep inside of us. These in and of
themselves are not necessarily selfish. They're part of the created
human experience. And guess what when these needs go unmet,
you just name any of these needs. You can build
the hierarchy of needs. You take any of them, and
if that need is not met, if that need it
is not satisfied, it impacts you psychologically, It impacts you emotionally,

(06:07):
it impacts you physically, and most importantly, it impacts you spiritually.
And this is so many times when Christians talk about
behavior or problems or sin. They don't understand, they never
take it. When it's not that they don't understand, maybe
they do understand. They never address this deeper issue. Sin

(06:28):
in many cases is simply the external proof that some
need is not being met and they have attempted to
satisfy that need. Christianity just says sin is don't do it,
don't do it, don't do it, law law, law, law, law.
Where you can give someone nine hundred laws, you're not

(06:50):
going to get rid of these internal needs and desires.
They're there, and we're not even getting to the sinful
nature part yet. Let me give you some example. A
child who does not experience love doesn't just feel lonely.
They almost always develop some form of behavioral disorder, the

(07:11):
behavioral disorder who everyone will want to address the behavioral disorder,
but it may go down that it may be the
result of something deeper that nobody ever wants to address.
This is the Church handles the same way. We just
address the outward symptom. We never go to the deeper issue.
An adult who doesn't appear to have any sense of

(07:31):
meaning or connection will in many cases, turn to addiction,
will turn to escapism, or return to or turned to
spiritual despair. These are just the outward symptom of something deeper.
You've got to diagnose the deeper issue. So this is
where Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the theory of self determination,

(07:52):
some of these issues come in. And when you look
at these deeper issues, when you look at the deeper issues,
you can be like, WHOA, Okay, so this is the
result of this. There's a need. We're built with the
Remember you didn't ask to be built with these needs.
You didn't ask to be created with these needs and desires.
You didn't say, hey, I want this desire, I want
this need, I want this one. You know, they're just there.

(08:14):
And sometimes we don't even understand what where this desire
comes from? Why do we like this? Why do we
have fine pleasure in this? Other people may not have
the same needs and the same desires, but we have
some that are similar to everyone across the board. So
then this means how do we understand sin? Sin is

(08:37):
the desperate attempt to meet real needs the wrong way.
Sin isn't just random rebellion. It's often a shortcut to satisfaction.
For example, lust equals desire for connection, and intimacy. Greed
equals a desire for security, Rage equals a desire for
justice or power. Gluttony equals a desire for pleasure and comfort.

(08:57):
Sin is a misdirection of legitimate longing. Sin is a
misdirection of legitimate longing, at least to one level. All right,
I'm not saying that that's all sin is, but to
a certain level, it is true. You've got needs, you
got desires, you want them fulfilled. So what do you

(09:19):
sometimes do? Will you sin to fulfill them? So sin
is the misdirection of a legitimate longing. Now, sometimes the
Church will go so far as to condemn the legitimate
longing in some way, shape or form, which becomes very problematic.
See the purity culture. You know, you can't even have
that desire. You can't even I'm born with the desire

(09:41):
in need. What do you mean? Now? I know the
Church doesn't always intend to say that, but that's sometimes
what is communicated, even if it's not what's specifically being said,
it's communicator or that's how it's heard. Our sinful nature
are sinful nature just doesn't let me stay it this way.

(10:03):
Our sinful nature doesn't just desire wrongly. It distorts everything
because see here's what happens. Not only do we have
these needs and desires, now we have a sinful nature.
And now that sinful nature, it doesn't just desire wrong things,
it distorts everything. See when you take this need and
desire concept right, which is a reality, and then you

(10:26):
mix into that a sinful nature, well, now you have
a nature that doesn't just desire the wrong things, it's
gonna distort everything, even your right desires, even desires that
are okay. We're born not just with needs, because we
are born with these needs and desires, they're a part
of who we are, but we are also born with

(10:49):
a will that wants to meet them apart from God's word,
design and timing. See, we have not only do we
have these needs, and if we these needs are not met,
we're gonna get find a way to get a met
And that's where sin is. It's an attempt to meet
these needs and in many cases, in any by any
means possible. But then you have the sinful nature, and

(11:09):
the sinful nature will say, hey, not only do you
have these needs, you should not not only should you
have them fulfilled, you should actually fulfill them apart from
God's word, because it's a sinful nature. So the church's
response in many cases is, on one hand, hey, you
have Jesus. That's all you ever need. You should be

(11:31):
completely satisfied, so don't worry about all these other desires.
Should go away because you've got Jesus. And once you
get Jesus, then you don't care about desiring this or
needing this or wanting this, because you're completely satisfied in Jesus.
And we talked about all the problems with that and
just how utterly untrue that is, because Christians demonstrate in
their lives that they want this and they need this,

(11:52):
and they desire this far more than just Jesus, and
they get unhappy with they don't get this, and there's
grumbling and complaining and divorce and fighting and arguing and
all the things that happen, showing Christians are never truly satisfied,
even though we want to preach it that way. So
that's one answer the church gives. Another answer the church

(12:13):
gives is the never ending will just die to yourself,
if you'll just take up your cross, die to yourself,
deny self and stop following self, all these problems will
go away. See, you may have these needs. You just
need to die to those needs. You just need to
die to those desires. If you'll just die to them,

(12:35):
then everything will work. And we talked about and the
last one, are Christians truly dead to themselves? Are they
truly dead? And we emphatically declared they are not. And
this whole concept kind of falls in on itself, and
we talked about it. I'm not going to go back
and review everything we said. There was a lot, please

(12:58):
go back, but here's what was company as I'm sitting
here thinking about and again, we know the passage of Scripture.
It's Matthew chapter sixteen, verse twenty four. Jesus said, unto
his disciples, if any man will come after me, let
him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
This is where the concept comes from, and it's constantly
put forth. Hey, hey, you got all these needs, you

(13:19):
got all these desires. Die, die to self, deny self,
follow Christ. Then then all everything will be Okay. Well
you can say that, but it's not going to take
away those desires. And I wish it would, but it's not. So.
As I've been thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking
about this. I started having a lengthy, probably three now

(13:40):
it's probably gone on four hour conversation with artificial intelligence
about this entire subject. And we've gone back and forth,
you know, three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning, talking
to artificial intelligence about this and my own struggles. So
you heard a lot of the conversation in the last episode.
I'm not going to go back and review all of
that to review the first part just to set this

(14:02):
all up, all right, But I'm not gonna go review
everything we've talked, but I'm gonna pick up where me
and artificial intelligence were in our conversation. So I'm gonna
put this together and we're gonna walk through this as
you're hearing the conversation, because I think it gives you
the ability to hear an honest, open struggle with this

(14:24):
entire concept. And I will tell you, Matthew sixteen twenty
four through twenty eight, one of the most philologically challenging
passages and maybe all the Bible hermenetically so confusing, and
Church history is littered with crazy different attempts than try
to handling this section. I mean, we could get into

(14:46):
some crazy stuff that's gone on in church history about this.
So we will work through Matthew sixteen twenty four through
twenty eight in a much more exegetical way at some point.
But I want you to just kind of jump into
this conversation with me. Here's like, you know, four o'clock
in the morning, me and artificial intelligence. And I'm like
this die to self thing. Now, I want to make

(15:07):
it very clear. I want to make a couple of
things very clear, because this is all about being open
and honest. This is not about arguing. This is about
being open and honest. This is about Christians need to
be open and honest about things. And I think that
sometimes we just all we can do is put on
which what does my theology say, what does my spiritual
team say? And then we just repeat it, what does
my favorite commentary say? And I hate that we have

(15:30):
to struggle. So when it comes to just being satisfied,
I've tried to blow that up. But I'm going to
be honest with you, am my Christian life man. This
die to self, denies self and follow stop following self
and following Christ. This kind of philosophy, this kind of
you know, almost anthem, this almost kind of like here's

(15:54):
the spiritual cliche, the spiritual saying that I would just
repeat over and over and over. I really thought for
a good portion of my Christian life, this is the
answer to everything. All I gotta do is just die
to myself, deny myself. But I am so challenging and
questioning all of it because I think so much of

(16:16):
it was just fraudulent. I just think so much of
it was fraudulent. And yeah, just tomorrow I have to
go to the VA hospital. I'm gonna have to have
some things done tomorrow. And I'm not And so this
comes to the satisfaction, and this comes to the dying
to self, denying self. I'm not happy with how things

(16:39):
are possibly going to go tomorrow. I don't even know
how I'm going to be feeling. There's just a whole
lot of things about it that I'm not happy about
that I'm not excited about. So I'm not satisfied. But
shouldn't I just die to self denyself. Shouldn't I just
be content? I can say I can place law on
all of it. I just I don't think it ever

(17:00):
truly works the way we want to. But let's dive
into this conversation and we'll we'll talk more about all
of that here we go. So I basically me and
Ai were talking, and Ai said, if Christians actually lived
out the common teaching about dying to self, denying self,

(17:22):
and not following self, what would that really look like
in every day life? So Ais like, okay, let's let's
take this concept now, because Ai has already said Christians
don't do it. They just they never do it. They
can lie to themselves, but they don't do it all right.
So then AI's like, okay, let's say if Christians actually

(17:42):
live this out, if they actually lived out the way
this is commonly taught about dying to self, denying self,
and not following self, what would that really look like
in everyday life if it was really happening. Oh, we
make it a cliche. We may make it a poster.
We may make it out our anthem. We may make
it our mission statement, we may make it our new

(18:03):
year's goal. We may talk a big game. But what
would it really look like in your life, in my life,
if it really happened? So Ai said, okay, A I said,
let me strip this away, and we're gonna I'm gonna
remove all the soft metaphors. I'm gonna remove all the
spiritual cliches and I'm gonna translate this teaching and to

(18:26):
practical daily realities. And I'm like, woh okay Ai. So
AI's like, okay, we've been talking about this for like
two hours, let me just strip it away. Let's stop pretending,
let's stop. Let's just really strip this to what would
it actually look like if this actually was occurring? Right?
So then Ai goes on to say, if if the

(18:51):
average Christian actually lived according to the standard interpretation of data, self,
deny self, and stop following self, their life life would
begin to resemble something radically ascetic, even dehumanizing. And I'm like, whoa,

(19:12):
that's pretty an asceticism. Okay, we could get into asceticism
used in monasteries in the early Church, but it would
be something radical. It would be like a radical form
of asceticism. It would be even dehumanizing. And I'm like, whoa. Ai.
Ai is going all in here, right, AI is really

(19:32):
tearing this concept apart. Now what some people say, well,
it's artificial intelligence. So I understand you. Look, I'm communicating
with it. We're going back and forth. You can agree
or disagree but I think we need to at least
strip away all of the pretend. So this is what
AI says, what the standard teaching would demand if taken seriously.

(19:58):
If it's not just a sermon, I'm sorry, I'm hitting
the microphone. If it's not just a sermon, if it's
just not a slogan, if it's just not a poster,
if it's just not some some mission statement, if we
really take it serious, here's what it would be. Number one,
a complete renunciation of personal desires. It would be a

(20:22):
complete renunciation of personal desires because you die to yourself.
If you're truly dead to yourself, you don't have any
personal desires. You're dead. You've died to them self. Desire
would no longer exist because it would be gone. So
for example, I've got to go do this tomorrow at
the VA hospital. Well, I have desires about how I

(20:45):
want it to work, and it wouldn't matter. It would
my desires would be irrelevant. I have to deal. Why
do I go to the VIA hospital because I'm one
hundred percent disabled? Why because of what happened to me
in the military. It impacts my life. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
There's not a day, there's not an hour that I'm
not being impacted for what happened to me. It's not

(21:08):
going to get better, it's not going to go away.
Charismatics will say, well, if you just have enough faith,
it'll go away. Others will say, well, you've got Jesus,
you should be perfectly content. Easy for you to say
since you don't have the same problem. But okay, all right,
So the church never does a lot of good or
just says, hey, die to yourself. So just renunciate all

(21:28):
of your personal desires. Well that sounds good, but does
it really happen? So a I said, so, you would
basically stop pursuing your dreams. You wouldn't have any dreams,
you wouldn't have any expectations. Your only dream, your only expectation,
our only desires would be well, I'm just going to

(21:51):
serve God. I'm just going to serve God. That sounds
so good. But yeah, career ambitions. Why are you trying
to get a career ambition. Some people say, well, it's
your vocation, so you should have career ambitions to glorify God.
But do you really pursue your career ambitions to glorify God.
I mean, you can talk, you can talk a big game,

(22:11):
but it's kind of weird that you your career ambitions
kind of also work with getting more money, a nicer house,
a boat, vacation, this, this, it's a it's it's oh no, no, no,
I'm only doing it for God. I'm only doing it
for God. Right. It's like it's like many ministers will say,
I only serve, I do this only for God, and

(22:34):
I'm like, and it's kind of interesting that you know
you're now worth you know, five million dollars, or you
have three homes or whatever the case may be. You see,
it's it's very difficult for us to try to just
to separate, Oh, I'm doing this for God or I'm
doing it for self, just demonstrating that we're not really
dead to self, because self is always right there, Hey

(22:59):
do it for me. Oh but say Christians, but I'm
doing it for God. Sure we are sure, we are sure. Sure,
that's that's come on. But if we really were dead
to self, we wouldn't have dreams. When we'd have ambitions,
we would have would we have creative goals? Would you

(23:20):
have a preference in how life should go. You won't
have any preference in how your life should go. Why
would you have a preference. You're dead to self. Self
is completely dead. You wouldn't have a preference to anything.
How could you have a self preference if you're truly
dead to self. There would be no preference. There would
be zero, none. You would I don't care if it
what happens, I'm dead sounds so good. But there would

(23:44):
be no divorce. There would be no church splits. There
would be no arguing, there would be no fighting, there
would be no grumbling, complaining, gossiping, slash. It would basically
we would be in heaven. If people were truly dead
to self, you would have You would never make a
decision based on what you want, because you would be

(24:04):
dead to self. You wouldn't choose a job, a relationship,
a hobby, or even daily routines based on if it
makes you happy or your desire, because you wouldn't have
any because you're dead to self. So it would be
a complete renunciation of personal desires now, and not only that,
Ai goes on to say, it would be a rejection

(24:26):
of comfort and pleasure, all physical pleasure, eating what you like, sleeping,
in soft clothes, warm showers would be suspect because that
would seem to be like, wait a minute, am I
truly dead to self? Am I truly dead to self?
You would likely adopt minimalism or voluntary discomfort as a virtue.

(24:46):
Your living conditions you would be would be very very
very minimal, very very spo You'd have very few things,
fasting often, saying no to vacation, entertainment, and hobbies. You
would be rejecting all comfort and pleasure because you're dead
to self. I think there would be some suspicion towards relationships. Right,

(25:11):
Romantic desire might be treated as selfish or carnal. Right,
I mean, come on, why do you want romantic desires?
Why do you have romantic desires? Why do you love?
Because again I say it all the time, we love
because we get something. We want romantic desires because we
want pleasure. Well, that doesn't sound like we're very dad

(25:34):
to it sounds like we're very very much alive. Emotional
needs like intimacy, affection, and validation would be labeled as
self centered or even idolatrous. Do you have emotional needs?
Do you desire intimacy? Do you like intimacy. Do you
like affection? Do you like validation? You? Self centered, narcissistic idolatr.

(26:00):
You're not dead to yourself? Die stop wanting these things.
You would feel compelled to possibly avoid or suppress human
longings unless it can be strictly justified as God glorifying.
But even that would be difficult because am I doing
it to glorify God? You can tell yourself all day
you're doing it to glorify God, But give me a break.
You know you're doing it because you're getting something from it. It

(26:20):
makes you feel good, It gives you pleasure, it gives
you satisfaction. Oh but I'm dying to self. I'm dying.
Are you either dead to self? Dying to self? And
people say, well, I may not get there, but I'm trying.
What does it even mean? You're like, I'm dying to
self because I did not get Starbucks this morning. Oh man,

(26:44):
poor you. And we've already talked about how the insta,
how the injustice in this because some people have all
of these things and them dying to themselves is like
giving up Starbucks and someone else doesn't even have the
Maslow's hierarchy of needs that they're missing eighty percent of it,
and so them dying to self means giving up eighty
percent of their needs and desire. The whole thing becomes

(27:06):
very convoluted, and we talked about that in the last
broadcast in greater detail. AI goes on to say a
fourth So number one, it would be a renunciation of
personal desires. Number two would be a rejection of comfort
and pleasure. Number three it would be suspicion towards relationships.
Number four it would be constant psychological scrutiny. You would

(27:26):
be examining every thought, feeling, or motive to make sure
is this about me? Am I doing this for me?
And why am I thinking about? What if I'm doing
it for me? Because I'm supposed to be dead some
if I'm supposed to be dead, I've taken up my cross,
I've been crucified with Christ. I no longer live. Wait
if I'm truly dead, well, then why am I doing
these things for me? How would I even know? I mean,

(27:48):
you would be constantly having to scrutinize yourself. Guilt would follow.
I think this is fair to say guilt would follow
any decision that involves your own well being. Joy or
satisfaction in anything other than prayer, scripture, or church might
be seen as a sign your following self. Hey, why
are you getting excited about this? And why do you
find pleasure in this? You should all look Jesus is

(28:11):
all you need your dad to self. All you should
find joy in is the Word of God and prayer
and church and meditating on scripture. That's all you should
care about. Why do you do all this? Why do
you have all of these other things that do all
of these other things? So it would be constant psychological
scrutiny number five. It would be a denial of identity

(28:34):
and individuality, your personal taste, your personal strengths, your personal
calling would be downplayed, are discarded as fleshly, stop worrying
about yourself, Stop worrying, stop thinking about yourself. The goal
would be complete disappearance of you because you must decrease,
you must die, you must deny, and he must increase.
That's how it's typically preached. Right, die to self, die

(28:57):
to self, die to self. If we truly take that
to mean what we think the way we sell, And
it's really weird because on one set, and I say,
Christians do this all the time, we speak out of
both sides of our mouth. On one side, we're saying, hey,
die to self, die to self, deny self. You must decrease,
he must increase. Come on, die, die die. But on

(29:17):
the other hand, we make a lot of allowances and
justifications for a lot of these other things that AI
is saying. Well, if you really believe in dying to self,
you wouldn't even be thinking of pursuing these things. Church
wouldn't be about pot lugs and get togethers and small
groups that you can build friends and hold hands and
seeing kumbaya and everybody talking about themselves. You wouldn't be

(29:39):
worried about yourself because it'd be a room full of
all people who have died to themselves. So the only
thing you would care about, the only thing you'd be
thinking about, is either other people or God himself. The
church is filled with a lot of self centered people.
And you know, if you're a pastor, you know how
self centered people are. Because as long as it's that
soon as that you church doesn't do things their way,

(30:01):
they get mad. They call you, I didn't like this sermon.
We sing too much, we don't sing enough, we don't
pray enough. We pray too much. This me me, me, me, me,
me me. The church is filled with some of the
most selfish people in the history of the world. And
if you don't give them what they want, they leave
and go somewhere else. Oh but we talk about we've
died to self. Nobody has died to south. Self is

(30:23):
ruling the whole thing. We drugged Jesus off the throne
and moved him to Zimbabwe, and now we're sitting on
the throne ruling the kingdom. But no, no, no, no, no,
no no. I can't see these things because we've died

(30:46):
to self. The point is, nobody does it. Nobody's even
come close to it. Ai goes On gives number six this,
if we truly have died to self, it would be
a life of relentless religious performance, reading scripture, praying, witnessing,

(31:11):
church attendance, All spiritual disciplines would be done to suppress
the self, not out of desire. You'd be doing these
things not because you desire them. You'd be doing these
things because you're trying to kill self, so you'd really
be doing this. You would be doing these things because
you know you don't want to do these things, so
you're doing these things in order to kill self. But wait,
so does self ever die or is it an ever?

(31:32):
Even a tip trying to kill self, Christianity becomes basically
an act of white knuckled obedience, not a life of
joy or freedom. You wouldn't rest, you'd grind, and if
you would enjoy anything, you'd question it. It's like the
daily grind. I gotta do this, I gotta do this,
I gotta do this. I got to And that's why
it's typically preached every day you have to die to yourself.

(31:54):
Every day you've got to do every days a battle
to kill yourself. Every day is a battle to die
to self. You got to die to your needs. You
gotta die to your emotions. You gotta die to your desires,
you gotta die to your wants. You gotta die. You
gotta die, You gotta die. You gotta die every single day.
And that is the way it's preached. Well, well, everything says,
give me a break. So are we understanding this correctly?

(32:18):
So AI says, let me make it simple. It would
look like monasticism, where self denial becomes the central mode
of life. We would all be at monasteries. Pietism where
self examination and mortification are constant religious legalism, where obedience
is pursued with no room for joy, desire, or rest.

(32:39):
And not just externally, it would be fully internal suppression
of your very humanity. Who Ai went in, You want
all of those again, You want all of those again,
Ai says, if we really took this serious, if we

(33:01):
even try to believe, if we really read this as hey,
take up your cross, that means to die, deny yourself,
follow Christ, that means no longer following yourself. If we
really took this seriously, Ai says, it would be a
complete renunciation of personal desires. It would be a rejection
of comfort and pleasure. It would be a suspicion towards
any kind of relationship or desire for intimacy. It would

(33:24):
be constant psychological scrutiny. It would be a denial of
identity and individuality. And it would be a life of
relentless religious performance. In other words, it would be monasticism, pietism,
and legalism. And what would it produce. This is what
Ai says, all of it would produce. It would produce
burnout and spiritual exhaustion. You'd be drained, not because you

(33:46):
love God. But because you're terrified of yourself, it would
produce guilt and shame. You'd feel guilty for wanting good things, love, intimacy, pleasure, rest,
because desire is seen as selfish. It would lead to
being inauthentic. You would live with a false spiritual persona
while hiding your actual longings, fears, and humanity. Everybody would

(34:09):
be inauthentic. There wouldn't be authenticity. There would be inauthenticity. Okay,
you wouldn't be authentic. There wouldn't be authenticity because everybody
would have to basically create a character. Right, here's my
and wrestling. You create a character, here's my Christian character.
And he goes to church and he's Oh, he's so pious,

(34:31):
and he's died to self, and all he cares is
about God and sounds and looks so good. It's all
such fraud, it's all such a game. It would lead
to pride or despair. If you succeed, you become proud
look at me, look at me, I'm doing it, or

(34:59):
you're gonna fall into the of despair because you realize
have I ever truly died to myself? Have I ever
truly am I truly denying myself? Am I truly not
following self in any way, shape or form. Do I
ever come close to accomplishing this? I think ultimately this

(35:20):
will lead to Christ just becomes your judge, not your savior.
So I asked AI, well, why does all of this matter?
And AI says, because no one actually lives this way.
That's what AI says. Most Christians claim to die to self,
but choose the spouse they want, work the job they like,
and enjoy food, music, comfort, sex, technology makes decisions daily

(35:44):
that prioritizes their needs and desires, and when they don't
get their needs and desires met, it manifests itself and
their frustration, grumbling, irritated, aggravated, of snapping at someone, arguing, fighting, bickering, griping, complaint.
It shows up in a million ways. And so all

(36:04):
of this means either number one, they're all failing to
do what Jesus commanded or the command has been misunderstood
and misapplied. And sermon after sermon after sermon after sermon
after sermon after sermon, and maybe dying to self, denying

(36:27):
self and not following self is not really the answer
to this deeper issue that we have all of these needs,
and if these needs aren't met, it leads to sin.
And so it's not just get Jesus and you're perfectly satisfied. Well,
if you get Jesus and you're perfectly satisfied, you don't
even need to die to self because self will be
perfectly satisfied in Christ. So this already contradicts the other. No,

(36:50):
I would have to die to self because even with Jesus,
I'm not satisfied. So I now I have to die
to the things leading to my dissatisfaction. All right, but
then do we truly died? Well, then, man, that would
be nobody's ever going to pull that off. So AI said, hey,
you need to remember the proper law gospel distinction. And

(37:11):
I'm like, whoa AI? And AI constantly with me at
least goes to the law gospel distinction. And now we've done.
We had five hundred hours and that's hyperbole of talking
about law gospel. So it definitely knows I'd lean that direction.
But Ai also has been told countless times, don't just
give me what I want. Challenge you may tell me

(37:33):
I'm wrong, tell me I'm an idiot, because I don't
ever I want to have. I want to be challenged.
I don't want someone thing to just agree with me.
But Ai says, hey, in this particular case, you may
have to return to the law Gospel. And this is
how Ai breaks it down. Law, die to yourself, deny yourself,
follow Christ. This is a demand that no one fulfills perfectly.

(37:57):
It's law. Yeah, yeah, what does the law tell you
to do? You keep sinning? What does the law tell
you to do? Stop it? Die to yourself, deny self,
follow Christ. Those are commands, there are imperatives. Do it.
And whenever I see in scripture and imperative a command,
it's a law. And so what is the law going

(38:18):
to do? What's going to show me I can't do it?
And that I'm failing. Now the Gospel comes in. You
don't need to die to self. You're already dead. You've
been crucified with Christ. You now live by faith. Yes,
the law says you have to die. Okay, I'll die.

(38:41):
How do I die by putting my faith in Christ?
By putting my faith in Christ, then I am what
crucified with Him, buried with him, or crucified, die, buried,
and then resurrected spiritually speaking spirit positionally, speaking in Christ,

(39:03):
I am dead. The law says you must die in Christ.
I have died. That's the only way to understand this,
you said, we know it's something we have to try
to do. You can't do it, Ai says, Jesus doesn't

(39:23):
teach self erasure or a human repression. He teaches union
with him, death and resurrection. You don't follow him by
suppressing your humanity. You follow him because your old self
is already dead in him. So the Christian life isn't
about denying your humanity. It's about letting your true self
live through the one who died and rose for you. Now,

(39:45):
I know Christians don't like that, but we have to die.
We have to keep trying. We have to keep trying
to die. We have to keep trying to die. I
gotta die to self. I gotta die to self. Well,
if you even take that remotely, if you try, then
then then man, I don't know what it's supposed to
look like. Because we we want to we want to
say that we're supposed to die to self. And it's

(40:06):
the most it's the most ridiculous things that we come
up with. Well, you know, I'm just not gonna, you know,
I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go to Starbucks.
As much Wow, Wow, you're you're you're really dying to self.
We we then minimize it to like some something vague
and manageable. So AI says, Hey, the diet to self

(40:31):
thing has to be understood in a law gospel way.
It has to be and we talked about that in
the last episode, and I'm going to keep driving that
point home. So our conversation continued and Ai says, much
of Christianity tries to soft soften the radical call to
deny self, take up your cross and follow Christ. So

(40:52):
AI is like, hey, here's the thing. Most of Christianity.
Sometimes they will preach it like man, you have to
do it, and then sometimes they'll kind of back off
and kind of minimize it, or they soften it to
some level, so they will say something like this God
gives us all things to enjoy, so just don't sin

(41:14):
with them. Hey, hey, you can go enjoy things, you
can pursue pleasure, just don't sin. So dying to self
just means you can get all of these things just
don't sin. Well that sounds good, but is that really
dying to self. AI says this sounds comforting and may
even sound balanced at first, but it doesn't hold up logically,

(41:37):
textually or theologically when held next to the dominant way
that deny your self command is taught. So it's this
kind of confusing thing. On one end, it's taught this way,
it sounds this way, but then we got to make
all of these exceptions. Well, if you make these exceptions,
that basically all it means is, well, don't sin. Even
if you just remove it that you can go pursue

(41:59):
all the pleasures, you get, everything you can from life,
just don't sin. Well, even that's ridiculous because you're still
going to sin. Nobody's perfect. So even that you can't
obey because everyone's still going to sin. But AI's like,
this doesn't work logically. Number one, it directly can contradicts
the literal reading of the text. If deny yourself and

(42:19):
die to yourself means don't follow your own desires, reject
your preferences, crucify your longings, renounce your life, then how
can you at the very same time enjoy love, sex, beauty, pleasure, food, comfort, purpose,
and hobbies. That's not denial, that's indulgence with spiritual permission.
So either the command isn't being taken literally or the

(42:40):
enjoyment is being inconsistently justified. So which is it? And
I bet you many of you enjoy love. I bet
you many of you enjoy physical pleasure. Oh, I bet
I bet you do. You may not want to talk
about it, but you do. I bet you you enjoy beauty.
I bet you enjoy pleasure. I bet you enjoy food.

(43:03):
I bet you enjoy comfort. I bet you enjoy having
a purpose in life. And I bet you have about
a bazillion hobbies you enjoy. So that doesn't sound like denial.
That doesn't sound like you're dead to yourself. Oh but
God wants me to enjoy these things. Well, then you've
reduced dying and denying to something so well, it just

(43:24):
means I don't sin. Well again, even that, okay, Well,
then stop sinning. Well you keep sinning, well, then you've
not dead to self and you're not denying self. And
we talked about last time that even in monasteries, the
monks go to confession sometimes daily at least once a week,
and they do general confession at the beginning a mass.

(43:45):
So they even are confessing, well, they're living the most
self denial that you could possibly live, and even they know,
they continue to sin. So number one, it directly contradicts
the literal reading. Number two, it turns to upleship into
a lifestyle of moderation, not death. Their original call was
not enjoy everything moderately, just don't sin. It was lose

(44:10):
your life, hate your life in this world. Take up
your cross for sake, awe, love me more than mother
than father, love me more than your own life. This
is what you must do. I'm in a whole lot
of trouble. If the meaning is now reduced to well,
just enjoy good things, just don't go too far, then

(44:32):
the entire radical edge of discipleship, the entire radical edge
of these commands, has been dulled, and the cross becomes
a symbol of balance, not death. Take up your cross
just means well, enjoy everything you know, just don't go
too far. It's at that point we're just playing some

(44:52):
We're just playing some game. Number three, it makes self
the judge of sin and enjoyment. When people say it's
fine to enjoy as long as it's not sin, they're
quietly made their own comfort zone. The standard of what's acceptable.
Can I enjoy wealth, yes, just don't love money. Can
I have physical relationship, yeah, just in marriage and with

(45:13):
someone of the opposite sex. Can I enjoy food, rest,
and travel? Of course? Just don't idolize them? Well, I
mean I love them, but I don't idolize them. Okay,
So what counts a sin becomes a moving personal line,
not an objective, consistent rule. This reintroduces subjectivity self guided morality,
which is the very thing that don't follow your self

(45:34):
crowd says you must crucify number four. It creates a
deep philological inconsistency if following self equal sin. But then
also God gives you desires and it's okay to fulfill
them as long as you don't sin. Then which is it?
Because that sounds like I can do a whole bunch
of stuff. You're saying both. You're saying yourself must die,

(45:57):
and then you're saying self is a vessel for God's
good gifts. It can't be both, not without a major
theological clarification, which most preaching doesn't attempt. So let me
read that again. AI believe that there's a deep theological
inconsistency if following self equal sin. But then at the
same time, God gives you desires and it's okay to

(46:18):
fulfill them as long as you don't sin. Well, that
sounds like, then I can. I am following self. I
am following these desires. You're saying it on one hand,
you must die, but at the same time you're saying,
but myself is a vessel for God's good gifts. Well,
either you die to yourself. So therefore you don't have
a need for these good gifts because you don't desire them,

(46:39):
because you're dead. AI once again says. And it's funny
because AI is like, uh, hey, law gospel, because law
gospel fixes this. And here's how it works. This is
what AI says. Here's how it works. Law. Deny yourself,

(47:01):
take up your cross, Follow Christ. This kills you. It
says you cannot be trusted. It exposes how every part
of you wants comfort, pleasure, pride, and self glory. The
law exposes this. When you read deny yourself, take up
your cross, Follow Christ, it's going to kill you because
immediately you're going to be like, wait a minute, wait
a minute, wait a minute, oh man, every part of

(47:22):
me wants comfort, every part of me wants pleasure. Ever,
part of me wants my own pride to be elevated
and taken care of. I want self glory. And the
Gospels like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey hey, Jesus
did deny himself perfectly. He took up the cross, literally,
he lost everything for you. Now, by faith, you're united

(47:47):
to him and death and resurrection. So guess what. Now,
I'm free to enjoy God's good gifts, not because not
because I balance well, but because I'm not under the law.
I'm free to suffer, not to earn, not to earn favor,
but because I'm already secure in Christ. I'm free to

(48:07):
follow Christ, not to prove devotion or prove my salvation,
because He carries me even when I fall on my face.
So if we try to take the the die to
self and reduce it to some like well, just and
you can. You can enjoy, you can pursue, just don't sin.

(48:31):
Ai says this doesn't work unless number one, you abandon
the literal total interpretation of deny yourself. Are you reinterpret
the Gospel as grace for needy, craving, dependent people, not
just rules for self control without a law. Gospel distinction,
the logic collapses under its own contradictions. With it everything,
with it, everything makes sense. So AI goes on to say,

(49:00):
if someone truly fully and consistently died to self, denied self,
no longer followed self, but followed Christ perfectly, that truly,
indeed would be perfection. It would be sinless obedience, a
life of unbroken alignment with God's will, without rebellion, without selfishness,

(49:23):
without distraction, and without divided desire. If we truly could,
truly could die to self, truly deny self, truly no
longer followed self, but followed Christ, it would be It
would be perfection. It would be sinless obedience, a life
of unbroken alignment with God's will, without rebellion, without selfishness,
without distraction, and without divided desire. In other words, it
would be glorification. It would be the end goal for

(49:47):
the Christian life, not its ongoing struggle. Most Christian teaching
treats die to self as an ongoing lifestyle or daily command,
but then fails to acknowledge what's actually demanding. It's demanding
a total rejection of every end pulse, motive, thought, or
action rooted in your own will, that's not discipleship growth,

(50:08):
that's perfect holiness. So what we would actually be describing
is no more sinful desires because you're dead to self.
No more self centered thoughts because you're dead to self
and you're denying self. No more resistance to God's will
because you're dead to self and you deny self and
you're following Christ. No more attachment to comfort, ego or

(50:29):
personal ambition because you're dead to self, denying self and
you're following Christ. No more choosing your own way because
you're dead to self, denying self and falling Christ. This
would be moral perfection. Now here's where Christian teaching begins
to break down. It says, die to self, deny self,

(50:50):
stop following and following Christ. But at the same time,
if we're even going to be remotely honest with ourself,
we have to admit we all still sin twenty four
hours day, seven days a week. How do I know that?
Because the Bible says be holy as God is holy,
and no one has ever been that, no one ever
will be that. To love God with all your heart, mind, body,
and so nobody does that. Love your neighbor as yourself,

(51:11):
love your enemy, turn the other cheek on and on,
and we were in perpetual state of sin. So on
one hand, hey die toself. On the other hand, well
we send twenty four to seven. Something is wrong. You
can't have both of these truths unless you recognize that
the call to die, deny, and follow is law, and

(51:35):
you cannot fulfill it in practice. This is why Paul says,
I do not do the good I want, but I
do the very thing I hate. Roman seven nineteen. Wretched
man that I am, who will deliver me? Thanks be
to God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Roman seven twenty
fourth through twenty five. Law says, if you truly followed

(51:59):
Christ and denies yourself fully, you'd be holy. And that's true,
but it condemns you because you haven't and you can't.
The Gospel says Jesus denied himself perfectly. He died the
death you couldn't. He followed the Father perfectly, and by
faith His obedience is yours. So now you have died

(52:22):
Roman sixty six, you have been raised Colossus three to one.
You are already seated with Christ in heavenly places Ephesians
two six. Your life is hidden in Him, positionally perfect
practically an absolute piece of trash. Okay, that's my words. Okay,
I didn't say you're actually practically a piece of trust,

(52:43):
And he just says, practically you are a sinner. So
true self denial, true death to self with equal perfection,
which means no one but Jesus has ever done it.
We are all to it, but we are crushed by
it unless we understand it as law, and it drives

(53:04):
us to Christ. And in Christ we now walk not
to achieve that perfection, but those as someone who's already
covered by that perfection. Now I'll stop there, because what
I'm going to do next and the next broadcast, we're
going to go back to the eighteen hundreds, and we're
going to go from the eighteen hundreds to twenty twenty

(53:25):
five and see how the Church has understood die to self,
deny self, and follow self since the eighteen hundreds, all
the different ways it's tried to interpret that. Then what
we're going to do at some point, we're going to
go to the famous text Matthew sixteen twenty four to
twenty eight, and we're going to really get into the
exegetical arguments here and try to figure this out because

(53:47):
this thing is a mess to figure out. It really
is convoluted and complicated. In fact, some people have used
start part of this section is basically an argument from martyrdom.
You want to be saved, well you have to die.
If you try to save your life, you go to hell.
If you die for your faith, you go to heaven.
So almost an argument to go be a martyr and
that's how you get to heaven. Well, that's frightening. Nobody

(54:10):
accepts that interpretation anymore, but we still do weird things
with it. But Christianity's answer to just die to yourself
it falls apart for countless reasons. All right, there we go.

(54:32):
We'll continue to advance this conversation. We'll see. I don't
know if we'll get anything else done, but I know this.
Here's what I know. I'm a human being created with
needs and desires. When those needs and desires are not met,
problems begin because sin is the misdirection of those longings
looking to be fulfilled apart from what how God tells

(54:53):
them to be fulfilled. All right, but then I have
a sinful nature who tells me to not only does
that desire wrong things, it doesn't even care about how
you get him fulfilled. So I've got a sinful nature
and I've got desires built inside of me. Telling me
that Jesus satisfies everything doesn't work because well, it doesn't
work that way. Jesus satisfies everything I need spiritually. In

(55:16):
other words, he satisfies the law on my behalf. He
satisfies my sins needing to be paid for because He
paid for them. He satisfies me with the need of
needing righteousness because he provides me perfect righteousness. He satisfies
me that I am now and sealed by the Holy
Spirit until the day of redemption. He satisfies everything I

(55:37):
need for salvation perfectly. I never have to hunger and
thirst for righteousness because I have perfect righteousness. I never
have to hunger and thirst for salvation because He gave
it to me. He's given me perfect salvation from a
positional salviafic standpoint, Jesus satisfies everything practically. You know, he
doesn't satisfy everything. Because you have longing needs and desire

(56:00):
is that he doesn't satisfy, and simply having Jesus doesn't
make those needs and desires go away. That's why we
continue to send because we continue to have needs and
desires that are not satisfied. And so then if you
turn around and say, but okay, okay, Jesus may not
satisfy just die to self, deny self. Well you can
say that if we really, if if it was even really,

(56:20):
if we really did what it said, then yeah, we
would be sinless. But that's never going to happen because
giving us something we cannot do. But Jesus did all
three of those things perfectly. He followed the Father perfectly.
He denied his not my will, he denied himself, not
my will, but your will be died. And he literally

(56:42):
took up the cross and literally died, and then in him.
That is my positional reality. Well, practically, I don't die,
I'm not dead to myself. I don't deny self, and
I spend more time following self than following Christ. And
anybody and any church with any honest church members will
admit the exact same thing. All right, that should make

(57:05):
me all super popular. No, I'm joking. All right, we'll
stop there for now, there we go. I'll get this uploaded.
It doesn't show that we've had any disconnects. That's good,
and then we'll see because tomorrow, I'm gonna be put
in a situation that I'm not gonna like. So I'm
not gonna be satisfied, possibly not gonna be very happy,

(57:27):
gonna be filled with worry and anxiety. So from a
practical standpoint, yeah, you can get. You can send me
five hundred scriptures telling me what I'm supposed to do.
The good thing is Christ has already done it for me.
That's the proper law gospel distinction. All right, everyone, have
a great day. God bless