Ep.248 Who They Are: And What They're Up To (Throwback)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll be away five seventeen. Do you want to report
a UFO hanging in? We don't want.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
To report every thirty one.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Do you wish to report a.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
UFO over hey, we want to one of.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Those areas thirty one?

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Do you wish to find a report of any kind
of it?

Speaker 4 (00:18):
I wouldn't know what kind of reports clouds time.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Areas thirty one? Me neither there. See if it was
anybody a U above us to pass us, like thirty
seconds ago, we.

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Were sending one top of golf negative, okay, OFFI the UFO.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
Yeah, it's murder two nine o'clock.

Speaker 6 (00:39):
Yes, I'll passed over.

Speaker 7 (00:42):
God.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I don't know what it was, but it's from at
least to three thousand feet above us.

Speaker 6 (00:47):
See, I passed out over.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
The top of us.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
Ninety one one.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
You just called both to be be four. They're after
staying the airplanes.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
And is.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
I sere to God?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
More calm on an unidentified object every liberty four call
or calm on an unidentified flying object.

Speaker 8 (01:13):
A Welcome to UFO Chronicles a place where people share
their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had
an encounter, I would like to be on the show,
you can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are you
all doing. I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO
Chronicles podcast, firsthand witness accounts of the strange and unexplained.
Tonight's guests are Leslie and Stephen Shaw from southern California,
and they will be sharing their UFO and alien encounters

(02:08):
as well as their personal encounters. They told a plunge
and co authored a book. Leslie and Stephen up next.

Speaker 6 (02:15):
But first, if you enjoy the show and you would
like to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can
do this for as little as one dollar a month.
Head on over to www dot patreon dot com forward
slash UFO Chronicles Podcast. You can also find a link
in a description of this episode below. Any help is

(02:37):
very much appreciated. Now on with the show.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
Hello, Leslie, Hello Stephen, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Hi Nick, thank you for much.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Thank you both for joining us today. And you're calling
from California.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, Sonny, Southern California.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Sunny seven California.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Wonderful.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Now, you both have some UFO science to share. Would
you like to stand the beginning? Please, well.

Speaker 5 (03:16):
The first one we shared, which was my first UFO ever,
was in two thousand and five in January. We were
driving home from an art club meeting at night on
Highway sixty two going west, and we saw a bright
white light in front of us that just kept getting
brighter and brighter, although it looked like it was just hovering,

(03:38):
but it must have been traveling towards us because it
got larger and brighter or we to it, and then
it took off north over and gone over the northern
horizon in less than a quarter of a second. I've
never seen anything like that in my life. It moved
had to been thousands of miles per hour right stee.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
As a footnote. We were coming back from Joshua Tree
going towards Chucka Valley.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yes, and.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
It was like, Wow, it's real, and I believed my husband.
I believed him when he was telling me that he'd
had these experiences, but there's something about actually seeing it
that just solidifies it in your psyche. And then the
second UFO experience I had was twenty twenty late October,
and we just looked up in the sky at our
home in Desert Hot Springs and saw a white light

(04:29):
in the sky. Again, just a white light, no air
you know those little red and green lights on either
side of an airplane, Nothing like that, just the white ball.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
But it was moving in such a way that it
couldn't have been in one of our aircraft.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
It was making sharp turns at speed and not even
just angular turns like a V turn at full speed,
and then shot away again at this ludicrous speed I
call it like thousands of miles per hour.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'd like to add on to that that it was
bigger than the first one that we saw. And again
it was silent, and it was almost a little bit
oblong shaped to me the way it looked, and it
was again once again very silent, and it was you know,
first to your do you try and think, well, maybe
it's a drone, or it's or whatnot, But it was

(05:25):
absolutely to me that was for me, that was the
most astonishing one that I that I have seen.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
Personally, displaying those characteristics that only a UFO can, you know,
the hypersonic speeds and angular turns that that would we
can't do anytime we turn any one of our aircraft
has to sort of bank around in a U turn.
It can't turn in to be at speed, and it

(05:52):
has to slow down a little too to make these turns.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
So let alone the the inertia effect on a physical
body and even the machinery in our current technology, it's
just impossible.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
And that when we saw in two thousand and five,
it didn't slowly get up to that speed.

Speaker 5 (06:10):
It instantaneously went at that speed, which had to been
over ten thousand miles an hour.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Okay, So the first experience I had was when I
was about ten years old in the Woodland Hills area
of southern California, which is purely close to let's say
Encino if people have like an idea.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Of what that is, it's near Los Angeles as a
San Fernando Valley.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Anyways, the first one I ever saw was again it
was a nighttime and it was a large orange orb
that was i'd say art to say, maybe ten twenty
miles away, but very large, and it was moving in
a direction from south to north, and it was so

(06:56):
amazing to me that I saw it was no blinking lights,
and I even Grippas Park Observatory the next day and
asked them they had seen anything, but said, you know,
a we have our our telescope's focused towards the heavens,
and so now we weren't looking in your direction, you know,
per se. The second one that I saw was when

(07:17):
I was at the chart House, which is near Malibu.
I was coming back from working as an acupuncturist. I
was a doctor of acupuncture back in those days, and
I stopped for some dinner and as I was going
out and getting my car, the valet and I we
looked out towards the ocean. This again was at nighttime,

(07:40):
and this was I would say about, Oh man, this
must have been about again about two thousand and five,
two thousand and six, and we saw again this bright
white light that was making wild angular turns and then stopping,
and I believe it went into the ocean. We both
looked at each other because we're both seeing the same
thing at the same time. So that was quite amazing.

(08:03):
And then a couple of years after that, when I
was driving from our home at the time that was
in Yucca Valley, California, I was driving down this pass
and saw this silvery silver object that was just hovering
in the sky. And I happened to be tuned into
the radio station in one, seven seven and Gary Danielle
the host is saying, hey, are you guys seeing this

(08:24):
UFO in the sky. So that was a that was
a mass siding and it was it was not a bland,
but wasn't an airplane. So that was interesting to be
involved in a in a mass siding. And the other
two Leslie already spoke about. So those are the five
that I have seen and she's seen too. Now as

(08:45):
far as my experiences from a family standpoint, my family
has As I grew up with a kid, a lot
of this stuff for me was considered to be okay.
We have a family spirit guide. His name is o'glegg,
supposed to be a tall black man who wearing a
tunists from Tunisia that we've been seeing off and on

(09:09):
for about three generations. My parents grew up in Oldham
and Manchester. They grew up as kids during World War Two,
being born in nineteen thirty two and nineteen thirty three,
so they saw a lot of stuff. My grandmother was
a spiritualist at one point that did automatic writing and

(09:30):
table levitations and things such as that. And my mom
I remember my mom doing a lot of automatic writing
and this writing stuff down that there's no way that
she should have had any access to that knowledge. So
I grew up knowing that there's a family spirit guide,
and there was a lot of weird things that would happen.
When I was three years of age, my first knowledge

(09:52):
or memory was waking up on several different occasions in
my bed and there'd be this little creature that be
jumping on my stomach and my chest just cannot playfully
having fun with me.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
But it was invisible.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
But it was invisible. Now, as far as experiences with
like the fourth kind, I have one that I haven't
had explained to me. This happened to me when I
was eighteen years of age, still living in Woodland Hills, California.
I was working as a cabinet maker with my dad,
and my sister was living with us. She was a

(10:29):
born again Christian at the time. Now, I just like
to go into detail as a monologue because it might
help to put some clarity as far as what was
going on in my life. I was beginning to study
taichi and I was working as a cabinet maker. Anyway.
This was January of nineteen seventy nine. I had gone

(10:51):
to sleep in my work clothes from the day before,
and I woke up about five five point thirty in
the morning. It was pitch black. It was on the sofa,
and then I was on Yes, I was on the
sofa in the living room, and I looked at my
piano to the right. Because I'm a pianist and an accordionist,
I'm very musically good in that way. And I was
thinking about what I was wanting to compose that day.

(11:12):
And then I listened to the fountain that was in
the other room, and I was awake. I wasn't you know,
in a dream state. And from behind me, from the
front door, which is about thirty feet away, is a
being of blue white light about six to seven feet tall.
Came through or from the front door upright, and it

(11:36):
moved very quickly, as if it was floating upright instead
of walking, and the whole room behind me was filled
with intense blue white light. When it got to me
in about a second second and a half, it's stopped
by my right side. The right side of my body
became neutralized, or I call paralyzed. It's basically like taking

(12:00):
a knife down from my head down to my toes.
The right side of my body. I could not move. Now,
it wasn't painful, and I didn't necessarily feel it being ominous.
This being a blue white lights bent down towards my
right ear and set in a whisper heisty, and I
was thinking, being as a kid, I was thinking this was, Oh,

(12:22):
I'm going to meet the family spirit title Gleglely, and
I was full fifty to fifty. I was scared because
I couldn't move, but I was excited and I just
stayed there. I couldn't move, and I don't know whether
it lasted for fifteen seconds or a minute, but it
eventually went back the same direction that came went out

(12:45):
the front door. I got up and I told my
dad about it, who had also been having strange things
happened to him, and we thought about it, had our breakfast,
went out to work. Lunchtime comes around. I'm getting hungry.
This is about six hours later after the event, and
I decided to, you know, I'll get some money out
of my out of my pocket. So I reached into

(13:06):
my right hand side pocket, pulled out a bunch of coins,
and all the coins are magnetized. All the coins are
I could pick up the coins for the coins and
things such as that there's which is just impossible. US
coins are designed not to be magnetic. And my dad
and I looked at you. Jo says, well, you know what,

(13:27):
what the heck is this? The only mistake I made
was I was eighteen years of age and I didn't
think to get a camera and to record this stuff.
But we told my sister and and that was. That
was one event. The night before that I forgot. I
was sleeping in my bunk bed and I was awakened
by a sound that went and yeah, weird whizz whizzing sound.

(13:52):
And I looked down the hallway my door. My door
was opened to my room. I looked down the hallway.
The kitchen light was was on, so I could down
the hallway a little bit, and I couldn't see anything.
So I rolled over on my left side to go
back to sleep, and then the bed started moving from
the foot of the bed. It felt like somebody had

(14:13):
pushed it twice. I thought, well, maybe it's like a
mini earthquake like we get, you know, in southern California.
So I decided to try to go back to sleep again,
and it pushed a little harder always as if somebody
was pushing with the palms of their hands from the
base of the bed. And then it happened the third time,
even more, even with more force. And then the fourth

(14:36):
time I got a tap on my right shoulder three times,
just as if a human being or a being with
an index finger would tap you three times on the shoulder.
And at this point I was getting really annoyed, and
I rolled over really quickly and said, what you know,
And again I couldn't see anything, but that doesn't necessarily

(14:56):
mean anything per se. During that same time, my dad
was awakened about two or three o'clock in the morning,
and he always kept his bedroom door open, as did I,
and he awoke and saw this wall of blue white
light outside of my of my bedroom and going into

(15:17):
my bedroom, and he was going to get up, and
he heard a voice and they said, say, go back
to sleep, Jeffrey. Everything's fine, He'll be okay, just go
back to sleep. By the way, my Jeffrey is the
British spelling of Jeffrey the geo f frui that might
be of interest to some people. And the other one

(15:37):
which my sister, my father, and myself all experienced together
happened at nine point thirty at night around the same
time period. My dad heard it first. He heard the
silver bell being rung inside the inside the wall by
the by our fireplace, and he came into my room said, Steven,
am I hearing things coming. I want you to listen

(15:59):
to this. And I came in and sure enough, it
was in a in a two by four wall. It
sounded exactly like a silver bell being wrung. And then
we got my sister again, who was born again Christian
at the time, didn't want to have anything to do
with this stuff. She came in and she heard exactly
the same thing. It kept on going on. We banged

(16:19):
on the wall and tried to make reasoning or excuses
like it's an animal or something like that, but it
was absolutely a silver bell. And these are all things
that There are many many other things I can go
on about about being contacted at different times, and it's.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Very common in his family. His brother Philip, his younger
brother Philip, related several.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
Experiences to me, and a lot of this sounds like
it is a haunting instead of an alien experience, except
that one time Philip did see a gray alien in
his room and then he blacked out and had a
large chunk of missing time afterwards. There's a lot of
missing time incidents in Stephen's history as well. Tell him

(17:07):
about that time you were walking down the hallway.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yes, I was about eight years old and I was
sleeping on the top of the bunk bed at the time.
I just we had just recently gotten the bunk bed.
My brother was on the bottom, and I heard noises
in the house that didn't sound right, and I got
out of the bunk bed and I was walking down
the hallway and I know, always waked because I could
feel my heart pounding, and I was really nervous because

(17:33):
it was for me. It was scary because it wasn't
my parents. I didn't know what it was. And I
got about halfway down the hallway and then I just
blank out. And the next thing I remember, a few
hours later, I'm back in my bunk bed on top sleeping,
and I have no memory at all of you know,

(17:54):
what was at the bottom of the hallway, what was
at the end of the hallway, and my getting back
into bed, and I know I wasn't sleepwalking.

Speaker 5 (18:02):
And we tried to have him do hypnotic regression to
remember what happened walking down that hallway and what happened next,
But we haven't been able to break through the block
in his psyche.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
And I personally believe in angels and protectors, especially because
what happened to me when I was thirty one years
old on April Fool's Day of all things, when I
was swimming in the Pacific Ocean Nicholas Canyon Beach, I
decided to go bodysurfing, and I foolishly went out too

(18:37):
far with a bunch of guys, and you know, the
Pacific Ocean is pretty darn cold, and I got kind
of out there and the guy started coming in and said, well,
I better come into And I was swimming into a
riptide that I didn't realize. And I hadn't been swimming
for quite a while, so even though I had been
a good swimmer, I wasn't in shape. So I'm swimming

(19:00):
and I'm not getting anywhere, and all of a sudden,
my arms become feeling like they're lead You're cold, and
I just can't move them anymore. And I said, oh no,
I'm in real trouble. So I spot a lifeguard one
of the lifeguard towers he was flirting with three girls.
And I yelled, you know once and I yelled twice,

(19:21):
and the third time I yelled as hard as I
could and was able to raise one arm above my head.
And then I went down and I knew I was
dead because I was at least about one hundred feet
out and he was on the beach by the tower.
And I started to see the lights, you know, the
white light, and I started getting this warm feeling coming

(19:42):
over myself, like, oh, this isn't going to be too bad.
I'm going to I'm going to die. There's no way
this guy and in two seconds can make that distance.
And sure enough, even with the tide, even with the
tide moving, this hand reached down and grabbed me. I
was about six feet five s feet under and grabbed
my right arm and pulled me up. He put me

(20:03):
in the position where they brother rescue people, where they
put you on your back and put their arm around
your neck and they said, just relax, I got you.
And he pulled me back onto the beach and my
arm still could barely move, and my wife at the
time was less than sympathetic, and he said, are you okay?

(20:24):
But you was not happy that I went body surfing
and I turned to look to thank the lifeguard, and
the lifeguard wasn't there. They said, what lifeguard? You know,
it was one of these things like you know who.
So it was quite strange. But I absolutely know from
first hand experience that unusual things do occur, especially those

(20:47):
coins being magnetized. I have tried, I have tried and
tried to magnetize points since that thing that since that experience,
and for me that that's direct evidence, especially being it
as it being manifesting as a blue white being. Now
there's one other experience that I did not put in

(21:08):
our book, but it happened when I was twenty three
and at the time I was studying and practicing tai
Chi twan all the time. I taught up for twenty
three years in addition to that, but I was reading
a book on Para Mahan's and Yogananda's autobiography over Yogi.
And this was Christmas December twenty sixth of nineteen eighty

(21:35):
nineteen eighty two. I went, I was sleeping on my
back on the floor at that time in my life.
So I went to sleep around about eleven thirty and
I woke up about four forty five in the morning.
I know it was four forty five because I looked
at the VCR clock and I thought my body felt extremely,
extremely relaxed, not sleep paralysis, because I was fully awake,

(21:59):
but I felt almost like glued to the floor, but awake.
And I thought about God's love, and I have no
idea why I did, but I just thought about God's
love one single thought, and it was as if my
heart and my brain smiled at the same time. I
felt this smile come over me, and as if two

(22:20):
points came together from my heart to my head and
from what seemed like a billion miles away. In an instant,
an inverted pyramid of blue white light hit me right
in my third eye, and my body was in case
in this cocoon of blue white light energy. I was
cocooned in this blue white light, and it was the

(22:43):
most incredible feeling of perfection I've ever had in my life.
I felt in an instant, I knew why the Yogis
sit in their lotus stances for eight to ten hours
a day with smiles on their faces, because they talked
about experiencing the universal love and universal energy. And I
just enjoyed it for the time that at last I

(23:06):
told my parents about it. And at that point I
was thinking, well, maybe I should move to Tibet, or
should I help my family, my brother and my sister
get through school. And I chose to help that. Plus
I also still had military duty obligations, So I know
these things exist. I've had direct experience, and that's why
one of the reasons why we wanted to write the

(23:27):
book and share what we know as being truth.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
And poor Philip, he Stephen's brother, he grew up affected
by this. In our opinion, he did not grow up
a normal human being. He became a hermit like he
became a miser, and later in life he seemed to

(23:53):
back away from humanity altogether and never almost never left
the house. And he he built a house out in
the forest with a large deck on it, and he
was pestered by an orb.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
This round white orb.

Speaker 5 (24:12):
About eight inches in diameter would float up and down
his deck. And then one night he went outside and
was looking at it, and it rushed him. It rushed
towards him and passed through his body at his neckline
and went out the back of his body about there.

(24:34):
And then I was talking to him the very next day,
and he told me about this experience, and I looked
on his back, and sure enough there was a bruise
at the top of his back, at the bottom of
his neck, right where the thing had gone through him.
And poor Philip was deeply affected by this for his
whole life, culminating in a horror at the end of

(24:57):
his life where he shot his mother and his two
cats and then himself and ended his life that way.
Quite the tragedy happened in the twenty seventeen and so,
unfortunately Philip can't speak for himself anymore.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
We have to speak for him.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
My brother would. When he was young, I'd say, probably
between the age of eight and thirteen. For a good
portion of that time, he was so scared of what
he called the little men that would show up in
our room that he started to sleep in the closet.
And so for at least a couple of years he
was sleeping in the closet. And my brother was a

(25:38):
brilliant man. He taught calculus for fun at at a
college level, and he was also a draftsman and an engineer,
and he was quite good in that area, quite quite gifted,
and so but I would.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
Say emotionally he was. It's like the emotional side of
his personality had was atrophy or damaged.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
I don't know how else to put it exactly.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
So that's the nuts and bolts, but I think we
could share that's pertinent at this point.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
Yes, a lot of Stephen and his family all have
these missing time experiences. In our research, we find that
that is the signature stamp for alien abduction. There's big
chunks of missing time where you're wide awake in the
evening and the next thing you know, it's ten in

(26:32):
the morning.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
The next morning, you know, you often find when people
DevD these these UFO experiences, these aiding encounters you do
find very very often in my guess where there's paranormal
activity and these other things which are going on, which
would suggest that they are connected in some way.

Speaker 5 (26:50):
Yes, if Philip hadn't seen the gray alien in his room,
I don't know if I would have attributed all this
to an alien presence. I would have said, maybe it's
a haunting or something like that. But once he spotted the.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Gray alien in the room, that told us who is
doing this? What's going on?

Speaker 1 (27:08):
As a side note, my uncle on my Okay. My
uncle was married to my mother's older sister, so not
direct bloodline at all. But he was in the RAF
just after the Big War WW two and he was
stationed in Salon at the time, and he was awakened

(27:29):
about midnight, one o'clock in the morning by this tall being,
this tall man again looked like a tall black man
dressed in a fez, and he told him. He woke
my uncle Douglas up and said, you need to get
out now. And he didn't know what to think, but
he'd heard about these family spirit guide old Glegly and

(27:51):
he did what he was supposed to do. So he
got up, got out of his cot and got went
to the galley or whatever it was. And a raid
came through of some of the of the force that
they were fighting against, and several of the people that
were in their cots were killed. And so my uncle
Douglas has had and he studied things like Uri Geller

(28:12):
And I was very close with my uncle, and he
just recently died, but he was again he grew up
in Great Britain and very very uh, he's very accomplished
when it came to things like banking and real estate
and things like that he was a great great man
and very very down to earth, very no nonsense like
you know, like the Brits.

Speaker 5 (28:33):
Oh I wanted to tell them too about Stephen broke
his shoulder.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
What year was that?

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Oh, that was twenty thirteen September twenty sixth Yeah, he had.

Speaker 5 (28:43):
A terrible fall and broke his shoulder and scapula in
seven places. And they went in for an X ray,
of course, and then sure enough on the X ray
we spotted a tiny little looked like a hunkhum a
little elliptical piece of metal inside his shoulder. And then

(29:03):
the doctor performed the surgery to repair his shoulder, and
the X rays after that show it has gone. So
we think that the doctor, I don't know, while he
was doing the surgery, pulled it out and so what
the heck is this and tossed.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Head the piece of metal. It was oblong, and the
radiologist didn't know what to make of it because it
was in my deltoid. It was nowhere close to where
the fracturing had happened. It was the worst part of
my fall, which happened on the twenty nine Palms Military
base in twenty nine Palms, the marine base was that
I ripped all four of my rotator cuffs and dislocated

(29:40):
and did some fracturing. Was quite the bad fall of
the glenoid cavity of the shoulder. But this one single
piece that was in an area that had nothing to
do with where the fracturing occurred. The radiologists didn't know
what to think of it, and at that time we
weren't involved in writing a book.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
Right, we didn't.

Speaker 5 (29:59):
And then it was later that we realized that this
is probably one of these little tracking devices that they're
putting in people.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, almost every time that I've been approached by these beings,
they always approached me from my right side, and especially
when I got tapped three times on my right side
when I was again I was eighteen. It's just interesting
that it's you know, as far as my memory is
that it was a very very short term experience, but
I can't really tell you how long it was, but
it's always my right side. And that was interestingly where

(30:28):
that metal piece of metal that was about an inch
below the skin was seen in the deltoid region by
the radiologists.

Speaker 5 (30:38):
And Stephen is still experiencing stuff like this. It tends
to be in his dreams more, but also in that
waking state, halfway in between fully awake and asleep. He'll
wake up and look around the room and see a
being in the room, a dark being with golden eyes,
or it seems like that. It's just an over It's

(31:00):
still going on.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Wherever we remove, they follow us. So it's not just
the haunting of a certain place or a certain building.
This has been following me around matter whether I'm in Sonora, California,
or a palm desert or bomb Springs or wood the hills.
This has just been following me.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yep. And I'll testify to that. And I wonder have
I been taken?

Speaker 5 (31:23):
I don't think so, but I've read many many in
an account where abduction victims are taken in out of
the bed right next to their sleeping spouse, who never
wake up and are never aware of it.

Speaker 7 (31:43):
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(32:03):
including the network you're listening to right now, the Paranormal
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Speaker 4 (32:17):
And Leslie, before you and Stephen got together, how did
you feel about the subject beforehand.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
I had an opinion until I became an adult and
started catching the news about it. And when I met Steven,
he was a fan of the Ancient Aliens program, and
I started watching that with him, and that's a real
eye opener that program. You start to realize there's a
lot going on behind the scenes that the average human

(32:44):
just doesn't know about.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
We actually met in nineteen ninety three, so we've been
together for quite a while, way before Ancient Aliens was
even a program. But we didn't you know, I was
well into my career and Wellsie was into her career
to so we didn't talk about it too much, but
we did talk about it. And at that time, Leslie,
you know, didn't really know whether she believed me, of course,

(33:08):
because she loves me, but she wasn't, you know, one
hundred percent sure until she saw her first you know, UFO,
and also started to have some strange things happened to
her too. We we took some classes for about two
years and a call a called Gnosis, and we did
a lot of specific chanting, different type of chanting techniques

(33:31):
that were designed to open up the seven different chakras.
And then she started to experience clare audience and a
lot of these things with the aliens started to come
back to me and very kind of a negative and saying, oh,
don't want to go down this path, kind of menacing
for her. She learned how to asktro project and she
was having fun. For me, it was it was very

(33:53):
it was very menacing and scary.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yes they were.

Speaker 5 (33:56):
It's like they were just on the other side of
the curtain waiting for him. And every time he would
ask to project, he would be plagued by trouble from
beings that were harassing him. And it's in a terrible imposition, really,
I mean, he's it interferes with his spiritual development and.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
His happiness.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
People I call the abduction phenomenon, I call it victimized.
They're being victimized by this phenomenon.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
And some people say, well, why do you call it that,
And I said, they're kidnapping you. They kidnap you, take
you and then take samples they're the samples they want
from you. This is a terrible violation and.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
People are psychologically damaged for many, many years. I don't
know if Philip would still have killed his mother and
himself if this hadn't been happening to him, but I'm
sure it didn't help.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
And what we found with our research, which I found
to be kind of interesting, is the correlation between the
alien abduction phenomenon and vampirism.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
Yes, when you think about it, I think this is
where the vampire legends come from, because we think that
these beings have been victimizing the human race for thousands
of years. But you think about it, what can the
vampire do. He can paralyze you, and he comes for
a sample DNA sample in the form of blood.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
He could also change shape. He's very powerful and very
long lived.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Oh yeah, immortal. And they all always come at night,
never during the day.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
And their eyes are large, and of course our eyes
are the way that they paralyze.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
And there's a sexual component too. Vampires are sexy, at
least the way we portray them in Hollywood, and the
succubus and incubus myths as well. We think these may
also be part of it because one of the things
we know about the abduction phenomenon is there this strange
breeding program that they're doing. They're taking fetuses. First, they

(36:00):
pregnate the woman with some hybrid creature, then four months
later they take the fetus.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
We also find it very interesting about the phenomena of colmutilations.
They also xanguinite the cow. They take all the blood,
and they take only certain organs and certain parts of
the body and the sky facing eye, and it's always
always the sky facing eye and the genitals and reproductive

(36:26):
tissue and the tongue. We talk about it in our book.
We think it's a necessity. You're doing it not for
research and development, it's for a specific need.

Speaker 5 (36:35):
That's one thing we discovered in our research is that
the UFO theories we're not lining up with what little
facts we had. The theory say that, oh, the aliens
are abducting us because they're curious about us. It's just
scientific curiosity. But when you look at the actual phenomenon,
that isn't what what's happening. They're not taking samples from

(36:57):
a bunch of different people. They frequently take the person
again and again and again through their lives. And then
they'll start taking their children and their grandchildren. It's like
they find a particular strain of DNA that interests them
and they keep taking it again and again and again.
The analogy I make in the book is that it's
like a cow out, a farmer's cow out in the field.

(37:18):
He takes it into the barn, removes the milk, and
then puts it back out into the field to generate
more milk. And I think that is what's going on
with the alien abduction phenomenon. They want this material, they
need genetic material. And also the phenomenon the abduction phenomenon
is ninety five or about ninety.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Five percent Caucasian.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
They're particularly interested in Caucasian DNA again, and we only
make up eighteen percent of the population, So what's this
particular interest in specifically Caucasian DNA? And they take a
smattering of everybody else And maybe that is the scientific curiosity,
But this taking of Caucasians again and again and again

(38:04):
through their whole lives, to me, it sounds more like
they're harvesting a product.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
I was going to ask Nick.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
In our research, it seems like families with psychic abilities
are also targeted more. Have you found that to be
the case in your research.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
It is something that is very common going over all.
You know, all the guests I have had on this
show and all the people I've worked with over the years.
It's a very wide spectrum. I have people which have
very positive experiences, they enjoy it, they welcome it, they
want to make this connection. And then at the very
end of that spectrum, I've got people which have very
traumatic experiences, very difficult, troublesome which can have a very

(38:42):
deep emotional impact on the individual.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
I can only imagine it must be terribly scarring.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Absolutely absolutely, And you often do find that people have
these experiences. They do have this in their family history.
You know, they do have occasions of psychicbility or or
some kind of spiritual connection.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
It's definitely the case in Steven's family, right, honey. The
automatic writing.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
And well, yes, just two months ago I was decided
I want to try and confront these beings. So I
practice a technique when as if like when when you're
in your dream. I dream every night, and my dreams
are are very very vivid. They have you know, all
the touch, the sense, the audio, the talking and whatever

(39:27):
interacting with different beings, and I go to different places,
and if I'm doing something, if I'm alert enough in
my dream, I will force myself to look at my
palms in my hand. I'll say, this is a dream,
and so what I'll do, I will or I'm aster projecting,
I'll look at my palms and then I can make
the dream disappear. Just two months ago, I did that

(39:48):
and I was I was back in my room where
I sleep, and there was this being there once again,
this one tall and kind of heavy set with the
golden eyes. And I said, what what do you want
from me? What do you want from me? And it
grabbed my arm and it kind of pushed on me
and I couldn't get an answer out of it. But

(40:08):
I did confront confronted. As of a couple of months ago,
I've had other things happened to were fact one that
happened that again. I was like twenty three or twenty four,
and this was remember that little triangular being Leslie I
told you about. Yes, I say again, I was still
in the military, and I liked sleeping on the floor.

(40:28):
I was very good shape and very skinny, and I
just liked sleeping on the floor and I woke up
about five six o'clock in the morning, and the light
was on in the room, a little light, and I
looked to my right and up by the ceiling beam
was this little triangular headed being about maybe a foot

(40:48):
and a half in height, kind of squarish, and it
was kind of shimmery, and it noticed that I noticed it,
and it floated down to my right side and it
said to me in a very deep tone voice, he said,
do you want me to help you get out of
your body? And I looked at it, and I knew
intuitively that I couldn't show any fear. So I felt

(41:11):
this little tinkling of anxiety in my below my belly,
and I said to it, you can help me, but
you cannot possess me. And again, I don't know, it
was just instinctual, and he grabbed my arm and it
started to go back up into up into the air,
and it kind of let out the scream, like like
a stream of frustration, and then it left. And then

(41:33):
I got up after that, and my dad said, no,
who were you talking to? You know?

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Oh, the triangular.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
It was again, it's like you say, my mom told
told me about things that have happened to her that
were similar to that, And like I said, I just
really didn't think that much of it, you know, especially
growing up so interesting.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
I mean, on on here, we have all different accounts,
all different experiences. I'll bet UFOs of all shapes and sizes,
and I have a lot of accounts on here which
are very peculiar, very pecuted, to say the least. It's
important for people to, you know, when they share their experiences,
no matter how strange and excused upon an alien it

(42:18):
feels to them. You know, it's important to share these
accounts because it's a very difficult subject. You know, it
can be a very confused and subject. There's so many
different angles to it, so many different pieces which you're
all intertwined.

Speaker 5 (42:29):
Yeah, sometimes this is one and a half foot tall
little being, and then but the blue white being is
seven feet tall, and sometimes you see them as gray aliens.
Sometimes there are these.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Blue white light beings. Is this all something that.

Speaker 8 (42:48):
We know?

Speaker 5 (42:48):
That they twist the memories of the people they abduct,
And I think that's what's going on with Stephen's. He
doesn't remember being on a cold lab with a bunch
of aliens around him. But I think if he ever
were able to regress and break through that mental block
that they've placed in him, that that's exactly what he

(43:10):
would see.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Oh, I neglected to mention another one that happened to me.
I was thirty one. I was an acupuncturs at the
time with my ex wife, and she's some one of
these type of people I'd have to get up at
five thirty in the morning to get herself ready to
go to school as a school teacher. And I was
still in bed and we had a round the second
story of a of a condo and I was going

(43:34):
back to sleep, and I heard the exact sound of
somebody starting up a Harley Davidson. And the court that
was just outside of our window, down by the court
by the pool was all cement, and it was this
was an enclosed, you know, typical enclosed condominium complex. And
I said to myself, who the heck at you? Now,

(43:57):
five point thirty six o'clock in the morning is revving
up a Harley Davidson. And I got out of bed
to look through the window and the sound stopped that
there was nothing there. So I went back to bed.
I was going back to sleep, and it started up
again the same sound of a Harley Davidson, and I
was definitely awake because I was going to get out
of bed. And then it sounds crazy, but then all

(44:21):
these weird looking beings came into the room, all different
I can't even Some of were clown shaped looking, some
were just animals, and they were like pressing on me,
and they were like dancing around, and I thought, oh
my god, I'm being attacked or I'm going insane. And
my wife was in the kitchen and she was completely

(44:44):
unaware of this, and I in other words, it wasn't
sleep paralysis or you know, people say, oh, it's a
sleep paralysis. To me, it was almost like the veil
between my conscious and subconscious mind got pulled open, the
curtain got pulled open. A lot of the visions whatever
that maybe in my subconscious came forward, or there literally

(45:07):
was a being in the room. But the sound of
that Harley Davidson was extremely distinct. You can't make you
can't a mistake what a Harley Davidson sounds like. And
I got out of bed and I was completely awake.
So again, it wasn't a dream, It wasn't the wasn't
sleep paralysis. What happened after they came, well, I was,

(45:29):
I was physically drained, and I kind of told Gail
about it, but she was getting ready and she just
for school and she just you know, didn't want to
hear about it. But yeah, I was. I was literally
shaken for the next few days, and I went to
go see afterwards. I went to go see a psychic
to talk about it, and she really wasn't very much help.
But I was legitimately worried because I was actually afraid

(45:52):
to go to sleep for the next few days because
it was. It was emotionally and physically draining, quite frankly, and.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
Serians are so isolating as far as there's no help, No,
there's no one we can go to for help.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
How can you help us stop this or you know,
break through the barrier?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
I would I would rather just sit down and talk
to these guys and say, hey, what do you want
from me? You know, can I help? Just you know,
don't scare me. All the time I've had I've had
trouble sleeping now for twenty years. I'm lucky if I
get three to four hours of sleep a night for
at least twenty years, and that's not healthy for anybody.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
This bizarre dream landscape he wakes from. And I don't dream.

Speaker 5 (46:40):
I have fibromyleogen, and we don't frequently, we don't dream.
So every morning we wake up and he relates these
incredibly bizarre.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Dreams to me.

Speaker 5 (46:51):
And I can only assume that it has something to
do with this phenomenon that his dreams are so strange, and.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
My dreams are extremely vivid, and the frequently I'll go
back to the same place and sometimes meet the same people.
And if I if I were to just sit down
and relate my dreams, that would be a whole show
in and of itself. But my dreams are right to
tell other people about them, and they just think, like
they look at me, says that's no way, it's no

(47:20):
way that you did that or saw that. It's you know,
I'm a very creative person myself. I'm a musician, and
I was like a practitioner of Chinese medicine for twenty
years state license here in California and taught taichi for
twenty three years. And you know, I've worn you know,
military hats, and I weren't worn the white collar hats,

(47:41):
so I've you know, I've seen things and done different things,
and it's it's still an unanswered question for me.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
In the theories that we developed doing our research. We
started our research when I saw my first UFO, and
we actually began researching the phenomenon. So I guess about
eighteen years ago. We say twenty, but really I guess
it was about eighteen, and we started researching the phenomenon.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
More and more.

Speaker 5 (48:10):
And what I'm discovering in my research, in our research,
is that these UFOs they're moving in our air space
because I think it's because they live here. I don't
think they're coming from a different star system. I think,
you know, I heard just account after account after account

(48:31):
of they come up out of the ocean, they come
up out of lakes, they come out of mountains, they
come out of volcanoes, they come out of a window
all open on the side of a mesa, and UFOs
will fly in and out of it. It seems to
me that they are here in our airspace traveling horizon,

(48:55):
and frequently the UFOs are seen just traveling horizontally in
our airspace like they're going from one place of our
planet to another place on our pa.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
And also to the indigenous Indians such as the Hope
and the Payout and the Navajos, they call the aliens
quote unquote, and it's gone. They're star brothers frequently and
oh yeah, we've been seeing these for thousands of years.
There's even stories about how the Calm, the ant people
or the Anazazi led a group of Indians underground to

(49:24):
help them to survive a cataclysm.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
So and then we've you know, the research extended into
the like the experiences of Philip Schneider at the Dulce
Air Force Base, the underground base supposed to be a
part alien, part military base. The Dulcat papers also came
out of that region showing basically that they're here and

(49:48):
that are you. Our government is cooperating with them, in
league with them.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Yeah, it's very difficult in that respect. When it comes
to all of these encounters, it would seem that it's
not being oak straight, it's by an outside force. It
definitely does look like there is certainly cooperation in one form.
And I don't believe every single account I hear are
always alien abduction. I do think that there is definitely

(50:15):
cause to believe that some of these experiences are deliberately done.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yes, that's what our research is showing.

Speaker 5 (50:22):
Basically from the Project Blue Book days, it looks like
they made some sort of a deal with them. Okay,
go ahead, you can take the abduction victims you need,
as long as you keep feeding us your technology in
dribs and drabs.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
There is a quite a funny movie called Sneakers. I
don't know, you may have seen it or not, with
Robert Redford and dan Ackroyd, but dan Ackroyd plays the
one that believes like every conspiracy theory out there, and
they're sitting around the table and it says, so I
says to the aliens that hey, take all the cow
lips you want, just give us your technology. And I

(51:01):
always found that to be kind of funny. Is because
there were accounts where where Ike went down to Palm
Springs and had there was definitely chrunk of time that
was missing from when he came down the Palm Springs
in the fifties.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
He was supposed to be having some medical procedure which
there was no evidence of later in his life, and.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
There's of course the famous accounts of the UFOs.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
He was supposed to have gone to Air Force Edwards
Air Force BA.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yes, yes, the idea. They're the you know the famous
accounts in the newspapers at the time of two weekends
in a row where UFOs were just covering over the
over the capitol during the time of Ike.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Yes, nineteen fifty two.

Speaker 5 (51:41):
It's like they were definitely trying to get our attention,
and it was right after that that it stopped. So
we think that they they got their attention, they made
contact and met and.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
You looked at the leaps and bounds we've made since
World War Two as far as how how quickly technology
has has progressed, and how far we've come in such
a short period of time. And yeah, sure we gained
some technology from the Germans, and then we got the
operation the paper Clip where we took the majority of

(52:11):
the of the good scientists like bomb Braun and a
few others. And sure there's there's that too, But we
have come a long way in a short period of time.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
Supposedly, the microchip is some of the reverse engineering that
was done in the private sector.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
That was another thing they did.

Speaker 5 (52:27):
They they approached the private sector to reverse engineer some
of this alien technology because the private sector doesn't have
to report, it doesn't have the obligation to report.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
That's all from general course, or isn't it that the microchip?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
And I think the Teflon and Helcrow, Well, I've I've
got I've got one that would be fairly interesting for you. Nick.
I went to one of the seminars that Linda Moultenhal
did for us that contact in the desert and from
some of the few pieces of the outside of the
alien spacecrafts that they've actually been able to recover that

(53:06):
they've vacually done electron microscope examinations of. And this stuff
cannot be made by humans. It's it's amazing. The outer
shield is between two and four hundred microns, which is
about the thickness of a human hair if you're lucky,
and it's made out of pure zinc and magnesium. The

(53:26):
second layer is bismuth pure bismuth about two to four microns,
which is much thinner than a human hair pure bismuth.
Then the inner layer is made out of pure aluminum
with little nanodots of iridium, which only comes from asteroids.
And they have the samples of this and it looks
like like plywood, but you know, but the plywood that

(53:49):
it's like layers, but layer it's just something that we
don't even have with our technology. We can't even touch that,
especially getting pure aluminum and pure bismuth and things such
as that. So we're coming closer and closer to saying, yes,
these things do exist and they're beyond our technology. And
this was disclosed just at contact in the Desert Bond,

(54:11):
I think was June third of this year.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Certainly the twenty seventeen public opinion has definitely changed somewhat.
There's a lot of people which have now found interest
in the subjects, you know, when they didn't really before.

Speaker 5 (54:24):
Yeah, the twenty seventeen event that I think has really
made an enormous change is the release of the three
videos on the story to the New York Times by
Luis Alezando, the head of AGYPT. The go Fast, the
gimbal and the tic tac videos very compelling and are

(54:46):
everywhere on YouTube, so anybody can see them anytime they want.
And it was right after that the DoD the Department
of Defense, you know, for eighty years they just stonewalled
us ufologists. There is this is not happening. It's swamp gas,
it's not real, it's mass hysteria.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
It's anything except what it is.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
And then in twenty seventeen, Luis Alisanda releases those videos
and then the DoD, to our astonishment, confirmed that they
were real. This is really happening, they're saying now, after
eighty years of stole awalling us, they're finally coming clean.
In that one way, they're still saying that they don't

(55:27):
know what it is, which of course is a lie.
Since they have crashed spaceships and dead aliens and possibly
some live ones in their possession, we know that they're
still lying to us. But the change in the policy
of being willing to admit this is real is an
enormous difference.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
And also changing the name to the conveniently change now
they call them UAPs, right of course, you know, So
that's that's another thing too, to kind of change the subject.
In fact, Congress over here in this country, just about
a month ago they had hearings on the UFO and
the UAP phenomena, and of course the Department of Defense

(56:06):
still wasn't forthcoming with any with any information. But you know,
the congressman and people are are starting to get a
lot more open about saying now we want to know
and the president doesn't have high enough clearance to get information.
President Clinton tried and tried, said, listen, I tried, but
apparently I don't have the high enough clearance. And it's true.

(56:27):
The president doesn't have high enough clearance, so you can't
get the answers either.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
A new package now, they said, People which weren't interested
in the subject beforehand are now mostly because they have
governmental people telling them. You know, this is definitely real.
But why the turnaround all of a sudden.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
I think it's because everyone has a video camera in
their pocket now. It's harder to hide when there's there's
a camera on every hip.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Yeah, that is true. I mean I wouldn't one hundred
percent put faith in everything that comes out the time.
You'll find that when things are put in a press
conference and they're told they're not always one hundreds inaccurate,
and it makes you wonder the reasons behind it whenever
anyone comes out. You know, I'm always a little bit cynical,
especially if it's from yeah, and from that side.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, I grew up in a very no nonsense family
from wartime England, and you know, always taking things, you know,
with a grain of salt and just okay, if it
happens to me, and I have direct experience and I
have more trust in it. But hearing somebody tell me
some stories I heard from people, I can just say, oh, well,
what this goes dong to me? Instead of ding.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
In our book, we concentrated on, well, the first chapter
of a book is it's a kind of a crash
course on UFO activity in the USA over the last
eighty years. Because if we wanted to discuss our UFO
theories with people, we had to make sure they had
at least a basic knowledge of what's been going on.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
So that was the start of the book.

Speaker 5 (57:59):
But we concentrated on mass sightings. You know, when when
it's one person, maybe it's a lie, or maybe they're
crazy or whatever, or they're mis misunderstanding what they're seeing.
But if three hundred people call into the police saying
there's a UFO just flew through their backyard, then we're
pretty sure it's a real phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
I like to call it, like referring back to Nick
what you said earlier about not believing everything that comes out,
you know, especially with the government. Is it a truth
sandwich or is it a lie sandwich? Is it a
lie hidden between two slices of truth, or truth hidden
between two slices of a lie. So what type of

(58:42):
a sandwich are they feeding us?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
You know?

Speaker 4 (58:44):
So I'm not I'm not saying people, you know, shouldn't
get excited, you know, by everything that's been going on
over the last few years, to talk about the government side,
But always have a little bit of caution because this
is coming from agencies and governments which I have lie.

Speaker 5 (59:00):
They have lied for decades, yep, through their teeth, bold
face to our faces exactly.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
So you've got to kind of absorb all the information
and then decide that way.

Speaker 5 (59:11):
But since that twenty seventeen release of those videos by Alizondo,
there's been two more reports issued by the DoD and
I've read them, and they're actually admitting to people getting
radiation burns from being.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Too close to the UFOs.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
They're admitting that weird pregnancies are occurring from the abduction phenomenon.
They're literally admitting some of the craziest stuff right in
these reports, and so a few people are reading them
that nobody knows about it except us, us in the
little upology community.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
You know, they've said, you know, we don't you know,
we don't investigate this, we haven't done in the past.
You know, we have no interest. But you know the
truth is they've always had an interest. Yes, yeah, you know,
say back in the night, for instance, I used to
give lectures and I would find that there'd be people
in the audience, which you know, they didn't belong there.
They weren't the usual crowd that you get that would
come to the meetings and the talks and stuff. Really

(01:00:06):
there's oh, absolutely, yeah. And you could probably talk to
one hundred different other researchers if they've had to contact
with say agency's.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
We use men in black here.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Men in black. There's been several occasions, I guess that
we've had, we've had that, but there's always been an interest.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
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Speaker 5 (01:01:03):
In our research, we kept seeing reports about, you know,
there'd be a mass sighting in a town in Middle America, somewhere.
These men in black would show up and they would
without any identification, they would grill every single witness, making
sure they had all of the pertinent data for themselves,

(01:01:26):
and then they would start their campaign.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
They start with ridicule.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
They start by ridiculing the witnesses to make them feel stupid.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
And laugh at them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:37):
They would laugh at them, and if that didn't work,
they would threaten them, threaten their families if they didn't
keep quiet, and if that didn't work, they would retaliate
in ways like they would get you fired or some
other pressure of some kind. And then we think in
the fourth case, they would just kill people.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Silence you that way. And this was government We believe
it was government policy. We have this, do you know
about that?

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
The Project Blue Book manual that was leaked to a
journalist a long time ago, I forget what year, showing
that their actual this was their plan, show up, get
the information, all the pertinent data for themselves, and then
step by step ridicule, harassment, just you know a blueprint

(01:02:29):
for how to handle UFO sightings in a small town.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
What really surprises me, Nick, especially when you when you
hear about the stories of the men in Black showing
up on navy ships like battleships and like an event
had just happened, written witnessed by many many sailors and
had taken pictures and whatever and written stuff down. These
guys to show up just within the day, and they'll

(01:02:56):
talk to the captain. The captain turns over all responsible
to these guys, and then they go and they they
take all all the all the film, all the documentation,
and frequently have people sign non disclosure agreements sometimes. But
it's amazing the response time. It's if it's as if
there's like a monitoring that goes on all the time,

(01:03:19):
or the UFO itself. As these guys saw us, you
need to respond. But there's this interaction that I just
find fascinating, how quickly they respond to anything that has
been seen, especially by multiple people.

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
So they care a great deal, and they cared a
great deal, but then they would have to laugh the
incident off. So this this ridicule program, that's the reason
that people laugh about it today. They're still influenced by it,
turning the whole phenomenon into some big joke when when
it's nothing but it's deadly serious.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
And also, of course, you know, you look at you know,
nineteen thirty eight with War the Worlds, with that whole
program that showed just how xenophobic, especially Americans are. I mean,
people actually tuned in a little bit late to the
show and they believed that some people killed themselves. They
certainly reacted in a very xenophobic manner, So.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
That may have given them a clue that we just
can't handle this kind And you can just.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Look at what would happen to the world economies of
all of a sudden we announced that, hey, these people
have been living underneath our floorboards for x amount of
thousands of years and they're more technologically advanced. It would
certainly upset the stock markets and the flow of money
and goods, and it would it would cause chaos. So
I think your reasons the other was just basically financial reasons.

(01:04:44):
Why why they're still saying, oh, no, we there's something
going on, but ogallige g. We don't know what they
are or who they are, but they don't seem to
be a threat. But yeah, something's going on. But yeah, certainly,
I think a lot of it is too financial.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Yes, I call it gosh gee, we admit these things
are real, but we don't know what they are policy.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
Indeed, I was actually thinking about it that the awesome
Welles program the other day, and you know, if that
came out today, would people react the same. I like
to believe that people would be interested and wouldn't act
in a crazy way if all this information was just
just dumped out to us.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
I think we've been sort of Yeah, maybe desensitized is
the right word. By movies, you know, about aliens and
shows about aliens. I think it's making I think it
would be quite a different reaction now that people would have.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
It's a difficult one. I mean, the last few years,
you know, people have been doing some, you know, some
pretty crazy stuff, you know. I'm not too too sure.
A lot of this information has come out now and
people have been very blase about it. For what reason,
I'm not sure. Even though the governments have come out
and said this, it's not the talk of the town.
It is obviously within the community and people which have
been pulled across of interest to it. But you'd think

(01:05:59):
it would be everywhere for everyone to be talking about it,
but they're simply are not. And I think because there's
so much stuff going on in the world at the minute,
it's kind of everything is overshadowing the subject.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
And I think I also I went to like to
marketing back to Linda Moulton how her hour and a
half talk on disclosure, and Leslie has it right from
the standpoint that I think things are being leaked for
the sake of humanity. You know, we all want to think,

(01:06:31):
especially Leslie and I being big Star Trek fans, that
you know that in the future we're part of the
Federation and where we've gotten away from money being important
and self development and you know, meeting new races.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
And we're traveling the galaxy now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
One of the things that were disclosed by Linda multenhow
she said she met this guy. They went on this
boat so they couldn't be heard, and they talked for
seven hours and he was saying his information that we
America have been involved since two thousand and three and
we are we are actively flying around to twenty six

(01:07:08):
different solar systems with the tall White Aliens and the
Nordics who are our friends. And two of these spaceships
happened to be named after two of the guys who
run the original Majestic twelve. And we're in league with
these people, and we've gone to the planet's pission and
Rigel four and RGIL four is inhabited by the reptiloids.

(01:07:29):
And she's saying this with a straight face to about
five or six hundred people and showing these little graphs
of where pission is, how many light years away it is,
and really so there are feline beings or reptiloids or
insectoids or humanoids, and some of them like as some
of us, some of them don't. And but mixed in
with that which she was showing that piece of those

(01:07:51):
two pieces of metal that we're obviously not man made.
So there's this BS I call it, mixed in with
the truth, which is this metal that we can't make.
And just some guy comes forward and talks to you,
Linda for seven hours and saying that, oh, yeah, we
already are on starship since two thousand and three. To me,
that stretches prejewelry, you know, to the breaking point.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
The way I see it is, it is what we
want to hearisms. Yes, this is exactly what we want
to hear, that we're part of a federation, that we're
already traveling the galaxy. Nobody would love it to be
true more than Stephen and I. But we don't think
that's what's happening. We think that these creatures reside here
on the planet underground and are playing space aliens. They

(01:08:40):
want it right, They want us to look looking up
for answers instead of down where the answers really are.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
In my opinion, that's what's going on. Do you remember
the incident with the Valiant thor nick I do, indeed. Yeah,
the Pentagon, Yes, the alien at the Pentagon.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
Yeah, strange, Yeah, stranger the Pentagon.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
That's it, Yeah, the stranger, that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
He lands in a spaceship in a field in Virginia
and wants to be taken to the President or ends
up getting taken to the Pentagon and supposedly resided with
us for three years, and supposedly he said he came
from Venus and it looked just like a Caucasian, red

(01:09:23):
haired Caucasian man and claim to have come from Venus. Well,
now we know that you can't come from Venus. Nothing
is alive on Venus probably.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
So that's a lie. He lied to us. So why
would he lie to us.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
One of the reasons, we think is that because they
are here already, they live under our feet in underground bases.
That's why you keep hearing a that's where the UFOs
are coming from. They're coming out of lakes, out of mountains,
out of the ocean. They're not coming from above and down.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
And it also explains their interest in our in our
military bases, and how the the ability to turn off
our news whenever they want to. This is all documented.

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
Yes, I think the nuclear you know, the US's use
of nuclear bombs on Japan, I think that frightened them.
I think they didn't want US messing with nuclear power,
and so they started UFOs started showing up at all

(01:10:29):
of our nuclear bases, and actually, in the Malmstrom incident,
they shut down all our the ten warheads.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Were taken off line, taken off one.

Speaker 5 (01:10:40):
Yeah, the ten acbms were taken offline, one after another
after another. And these are all separate systems. And of
course it's UFO is flying over, hovering over the base.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Same kind of things have been reported in great Britain too.

Speaker 5 (01:10:52):
So if they were a distant star system, coming from
a distant star system, and we were on the verge
are destroying ourselves with nuclear power weapons, they might care
enough to worry for us. But the reaction they had
was like more like they were worried about themselves. I
think that they were terrified by our use of nuclear weapons.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think they probably look at
us like children with matches.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
So when I was a doctor, I used to use
this analogy about the human brain, where we have this
fantastic device that's been developed through probably nature and probably
a little bit of help. And it's like we're given
this Ferrari that has a thousand horsepower engine and we
aren't given an instruction manual, accept the show, how you

(01:11:39):
can turn it, turn it on, how you can accelerate,
And we're going down through life on this one lane
road that is barely lit with this Ferrari that has
a thousand horse power, and we don't know there's going
to be a turn coming up or not. Where we
just have they have this fantastic computer in our head

(01:12:00):
heads that we barely use, and all we know how
to do is basically, you know, accelerate and turn it
on and maybe turn on the headlights. And as for that,
anything else is basically just either luck or just yes.
You know, we just don't really know where the more
and more we learn about the human brain is, you know,
even the neocortex. You know, some of the scientists are

(01:12:23):
saying that to just one very small part of the
of the human neocortex at about three hundred thousand years ago,
was all of a sudden we gained the ability to speak.
Jason Martell was talking about that, and when they do dissections,
it looks like that part of the neocortex it was
a patch job where that part that gives us ability

(01:12:44):
to speak was actually was actually added in on the
chromosomal DNA level. So it's it's interesting to see that,
you know, finally we're starting to catch up through through
science to go to even prove some of these achievements.
We didn't have the ability to speak up until a
relatively short period.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Of time ago, about fifty thousand years.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
Yeah, so it certainly makes you wander, doesn't it. And
Leslie Stephen, you also briefly mentioned your book earlier. Can
you tell us what it's called?

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Please?

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
It's who they are and what they're up to. We
tried to answer the big questions in the book.

Speaker 5 (01:13:23):
So many UFO books, and believe me, we've read a
pile of them, talk about the phenomenon in general or
sometimes a specific incident. They'll go into it in great detail,
but we're looking at the subject as a whole, trying
to look at the umbrella over it and explained who
are flying these machines, what they want from us, why

(01:13:46):
they're here, where they come from, etc.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
Trying to answer Like I say.

Speaker 5 (01:13:51):
As we were doing our research, I kept seeing interviews
with people and they'd be terrified, lost no idea what
they saw, grasping for any explanation as to what they're seeing.
And we had theories, and so I thought, let's impart
our theories. Maybe it'll help these people.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
So we also tied that in with ancient history and
what has been seen and documented through the thousands and
thousands of years, and WHO is basically a learning experience
for us, but also it helped to explain. And also
we're basically giving people answers and whys, who, why, how
in the book instead of just a dry just explanation

(01:14:33):
this event happened. We you know, we're trying to find
the answers for people. That is, in other words, we
were looking for the horses and not the zebras. We
see a lot of people chasing zebras these days, like
now it's very popular where people talk about interdimensionals from
the fourth and fifth dimension and time travel.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
These are creatures from.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
The future Einstein, rosenbridges, wormholes and you know, just you know,
zebra type stuff. But you know, we we're basically more
no nonsense as to be you know, if it's you know,
look for the horse to be he hear hoof beats,
unless if you're in certain parts of Kenya, then you
might actually be hoof beats. They might be zebras.

Speaker 5 (01:15:11):
We've seen their evidence of their habitation on this planet
for thousands of years. So again it points more to
a species that is here living with us, rather than
something that's traveling here from vast distances. That was another
thing that didn't add up, right, Oh, they're supposed to
be coming here from another star system. How come we're

(01:15:31):
seeing them ten thousand times a year. There's ten thousand
reported sightings per year every year for one hundred years
that we've been tracking it. And probably thousands of years
before that. So we see them definitely as cohabitants of
this world.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
So our book strives to give people answers to what
looks to be the most reasonable explanation from what's going on.
I call it necessity, and hear out of necessity, and
need is because of necessity.

Speaker 5 (01:15:59):
And so many of the these creatures, these beings, they're humanoid.
Almost all of them are humanoid. And I see them
as much closer relatives to us than aliens. For instance,
our closest relative on the planet is a variety of chimpanzee.
If you look at the human next to the chimpanzee,
we look nothing alike, and this is our absolute closest

(01:16:21):
relative on the planet. But you look at a gray alien.
We have a lot more in common with them than
we do with the chimpanzee. They walk upright, they are
proportions are the same as ours. Their eyes are in
the right place, the nose is in the right place,
the mouth is in the right place, the ear holes
are in the right place. The elbows bend the correct way,
the knees bend the correct way. The pelvis is the

(01:16:41):
same shape as ours. They're the only other creature that
we know of that walks perfectly upright like we do,
except you know, possibly Bigfoot and us and that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
And I think we have a lot more in common
with these creatures than we do with the chimpanzee.

Speaker 4 (01:16:57):
Interesting. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you that for stuff
who they are and what they're up to by Leslie
and Stephen Shaw.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
It's available on Amazon and ingram Perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:17:08):
What I do is I'll leave links in the description
of this episode and on our website.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
Super thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:17:15):
Good stuff, Okay, Leslie Stephen, I really appreciate you both
coming on sharing that for our listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
You're welcome.

Speaker 4 (01:17:21):
It was my pleasure. It's lovely to having you on. Okay,
keep in contact and I will talk to you soon. Bye.
For now, that's all for this week. Keep updated and
connected with the show on x Facebook and Instagram. And
if you have an encounter that you'd like to share
on the podcast, you can email me at UFO Chronicles
at gmail dot com, or you can reach out to

(01:17:43):
me via the contact page on my website at UFO
Chronicles podcast dot com. A big thank you to Leslie
and Stephen for sharing tonight and thank you all for listening.
I will be back next week. Till then, stay safe
and keep watching the skies. Goodbye,

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Ep.248 Who They Are: And What They're Up To (Throwback)

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