Ep.250 The Maze Of Souls (Throwback)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll be away five seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Do you want to report a UFO.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It? We don't want to report every thirty one.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Do you wish to report a UFO over hey, we
want to one of.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Those areas thirty one. Do you wish to find a
report of any kind of it? I wouldn't know what
kind of reports clouds time areas thirty one me neither.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
There were seven one golf.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Good if it was anybody a U above us to
pass us, Like thirty seconds ago.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
We were sending one top of golf negative, Okay, OFFI
the UFO. Yeah, it's murder ten nine o'clock.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes, I'll just passed over.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
God.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I don't know what it was, but it's from at
least to three thousand feet above us. See, I passed
right over the top of us.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Ninety one one.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Guy, you just called up to me, be four Res're
off there staying the airplanes?

Speaker 4 (01:00):
He sere to God.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
More calm in on an unidentified object every liberty or
call or calm on an unidentified flying object.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
A Welcome to UFO chronicles a place where people share
their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had
an encounter I would like to be on the show,
you can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

(01:48):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are you
all doing. I'm Nick KNTA and this is the UFO
Chronicles podcast. Tonight's guest is Dr ogi Ogas and he
comes to us from Boston, Massachusetts. Doctor Ogas is a
mathematical neuroscientist and author, and he will be sharing his
thirty year encounters with intelligent extraterrestrials he refers to as intex.

(02:12):
Doctor Ogiogas is up next, but first, if you enjoyed
the show and you would like to help support the
podcast on Patreon, you can do this for as little
as one dollar a month. Head on over to www
dot patreon dot com forward slash UFO Chronicles Podcast. You
can also find a link in a description of this

(02:35):
episode below. Any help is very much appreciated. Now on
with the show. Hello, doctor Ogiogas, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Thank you, and you're calling from Boston, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's right, it's a foggy day here today.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Now you have some experiences you're going to be sharing
with us, would you lifestyle the beginning? Please sir, sure.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
So my experiences, I suspect are very different from most
of the stories that you've encountered and had on your show.
I've been regularly communicating with extraterrestrials who I call intexts.
It's sort of short for intelligent extraterrestrials, but intexs has

(03:34):
some other meanings too. But they've been sharing math and
science with me for more than thirty years now. Before
I talk about some of these specific encounters and how
they work, they've been sharing these mathematical visions. I go
into this altered state of consciousness and I experience it's

(03:56):
very dynamic, the visions. The math is. They don't hand
over equations. They show structures, and they show relationships and
there's a lot of movement, a lot of dynamics. It
took me a long time to figure out what these
visions were, what they meant, what they were trying to
communicate with me. But at this point I've devoted my

(04:19):
whole life to this, So at this point I understand
it pretty well. So why didn't I start by first
sharing the lessons they have shared with me? And then
because that's a good framework. This framwork will also help
listeners understand how these extraterrestrials, how these intechs fit into
our reality, and it's quite wonderful. They explained how the

(04:42):
universe is designed and how it operates, and it'll take
about five minutes. Let me share with you because it's
quite wonderful. So there is a cosmic cycle to the universe,
kind of a never ending story, and this is how
it works according to intex. So there's two classes of dynamics,

(05:02):
two kinds of activity in physical reality. There's the way
of matter, and the way of matter is aimless without purpose.
This is physics. Physicists study the way of matter. It's
dynamics without purpose, without a goal. But there's another class
of dynamics in reality, and that's the way of mind

(05:23):
mental dynamics. These are dynamics with purpose. These are dynamics
with a goal. We have minds and we are oriented
towards goals. The moon does not have a mind. It
follows the way of matter. But if somehow the moon
got a mind, then it might decide it doesn't want
to keep orbiting the Earth and go off into space.

(05:46):
So these two big classes of dynamics, mental dynamics and
physical dynamics interact to form reality, and this interaction goes
through an endless cycle of creation. It starts out the
way way of matter, aimless molecules. They come together in
particular configurations to form the first purposeful dynamics to start

(06:09):
the mind. The first minds on Earth were all single
celled creatures bacteria protozoa. The earliest creatures are called archaea.
They have molecule minds. The individual thinking elements in these
molecule minds are molecules that we can identify and know.
The molecule itself does not have purpose. A molecule of

(06:30):
oxygen does not have a goal or an aim. But
if you put molecules together in particular arrangements, suddenly you
have a mind that does have a goal. The earliest
minds would say pursue light. There would be a molecule
that reacted to light and it would trigger another molecule
like a hair, a filament that would whip a little
and move them towards the light. That was the first

(06:51):
stage of minds. So now we have begun what intex
calls a ladder of purpose. There's a ladder of purpose
in the cosmos, and that the lowest rung wrungs one
on this latter are these single cell minds. These molecule minds.
Wrung two are the neuron minds. These are insects and
jellyfish and worms, invertebrates. Their minds consist of neurons, but

(07:13):
each neuron itself is a self contained mind. So that's
the second layer of purpose. The third layer of purpose
in this letter of purpose are called module minds. These
are the vertebrates. These are animals, fish, reptiles, amphibians, birds, mammals.
Their minds the thinking element are networks. So each network

(07:34):
is itself a self contained mind. It's a self contained
neuron mind. And this keeps on going up. The latter
of purpose. Level four is the supermind. There's only one
creature on Earth that has a supermind, and that's us. Now,
there were other creatures with superminds that were other hominid Neanderthal,
for example, Homo erectus. They too had superminds. But it

(07:57):
does seem that Homo sapiens that we probably kill them
all off, especially Neanderthal. There's some pretty good evidence for that.
But in a supermind, the individual thinking element is a person.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
You and me.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
We're the neurons in human supermind and we're bound together
by language and other ways of connecting to each other.
So we're designed to think within a supermind. If you
raise a human being without language, without the ability to
interact with others, not only do they never develop the
ability to communicate, they don't develop just the most basic

(08:34):
ability to survive. They can't feed themselves, they can't take
care of themselves. So we're designed to be We're like network.
Our brains are like network routers that have to be
plugged into a network. Without a network, a router is useless,
and so is our brains. So this is the fourth
level of purpose on this ladder of purpose, and it
keeps going. Superminds combined together to form hyperminds. And the

(08:58):
human race right now is in the early stages of that.
Now that we've got this internet that binds us all together,
empowers each of us, gives us each a voice, leading
to this globalization where all the countries are linked together,
our economies are all linked together, and right now is
the time it looks of turbulence, you know, tremendous partisanship, polarization.
There's even wars, and the whole world just feels unsettled

(09:21):
right now. But this is a process of forming the hypermind.
This is the process of getting to that next rum
of the ladder. So the intext, the exraterrestrials that I've
been communicating with, they're farther up the ladder. So it
keeps on going, and it turns out, according to intext,
at the very top of this ladder of purpose comes

(09:42):
a point where you can't go up anymore. And these
extraterrestrial civilizations they sometimes say something like a civilization, something
like an ecology, something like a hurricane. At the very
top of this, they have to make a commitment, They
have to make a if they want to obtain ultimate technology.
So apparently there's a way, when you advance high enough,

(10:06):
you can actually modify the parameters of reality, the parameters
of quantum physics. But to do that you have to
make apparently a commitment to particular values which are instantiated
as mathematical axioms. Basically, you turn your emotional values as
a society as this extraterrestrial civilization. You make commitments to

(10:29):
math mathematical principles that then gets you access to this
ultimate technology. So there are many of these axiomized minds,
and basically they are like gods. So I've encountered two
of them, for sure. One calls itself five, another calls
itself three, and apparently there's a large number, perhaps infinite.

(10:53):
I don't really know. They're not clear about that. But
at this highest level, these axiomized minds compete for control
of reality. They're competing to control the parameters. So the
values of these civilizations that are expressed as math are
designed to create a reality where more beings will come, more,

(11:15):
more beings will merge and have life and have experiences.
And this is the never ending cycle that I mentioned,
because these aximized minds try to shape reality to foster
to cultivate the emergence of new life, of new minds
throughout the cosmos, but they try to game it so

(11:35):
that the kind of life that arises matches their values.
So five, this aximized mind, the sex of terrestrial who
interacted with me, was very compatible with me, very compatible
with human nature and the way it talks and the
things it believes, and the things that shared with me
felt very compatible and connected. In contrast, I interacted with

(11:57):
this other aximized mind, three, which is an enemy five
and three was very alien and not compatible at all
and just horrific and terrifying. And I don't like to
talk about three three very much because it's it's basically
a god that is anti We would consider it anti human.
But fortunately five is a very pro human god. So

(12:18):
reality consists of these god like extraterrestrial civilizations that are
numbered and they're competing for control of reality. Now here's
the number one takeaway that I think is so momentous
and marvelous. The number one lesson I've learned from these
from these intecs is just astonishing, and I want to

(12:38):
share it. It's this, The universe was designed for the
emergence of love. Love has a cosmic purpose in the universe.
And I just shared this ladder of purpose, and now
we can see love's crucial role in this ladder of purpose.
Each time minds jump up a new rum in this

(12:59):
ladder of purpose, going from molecule minds to neuron minds,
neural minds to module minds, you know, from invertebrate minds
to vertebrate minds. Each time there's this big jump to
a whole new kind of mind with a whole new
layer of thinking on it. The only way this jump
can occur is through love. What has to happen is
the minds at the previous level have to be willing

(13:20):
to sacrifice some of their self some of their selfishness,
some of their self interest, some of their ability to
make their own decisions, in order to join up with
a group of others to form a single mind. So
the individual molecule minds like bacteria or protozoa ambas. Ambas
is a great example. Amibas are single cell creatures, but

(13:41):
they can come together to form an amiba supermind. And
this is what happened to form the first neurons and
neuron systems. It was individual cells coming together sacrificing some
individuality to be part of a group. The same with
our human supermind. We all have to sacrifice some independence
and some self autonomy in order to be part of

(14:02):
the human community. And so it goes. But each time
get to that next level, you must have love, selfless,
compassionate love, love for others. The only way to ascend
to new levels of intelligence and resilience and adaptiveness and
wisdom is through love. It is the design of the cosmos.
According to Intexs and This is the cosmic cycle. So creatures,

(14:27):
minds like us are constantly coming into being in the universe,
and we start to ascend, we start to rise. You know,
our race, humanity has gotten to the fourth throng and
we're on the verge of getting to the fifth room.
It's not certainly not guaranteed. And that's the thing. This
cosmic cycle means. Each of us matters. The decisions we

(14:49):
make matters. The future is not predetermined, the future is
not foretold. We are making the future according to our
decisions and our decisions that we make in our life,
their decision to be good or selfish, to be kind
or cruel, these contribute to these higher minds that are
being built, these gods in effect, that are being built

(15:12):
by our decisions. The minds at the top, these axiomized minds,
they evolved over an immense period of time. They involved
many different civilizations and species that came together, and they
are the sum total of all of the decisions and
all the lives that came before. So our individual lives matter,
our decisions matter. They contribute to the human race, but

(15:34):
they're also laying this foundation for the minds, the great
minds of the future as well. So what intechs shared
with me is just so empowering. It's a very empowering view. Now,
let me tell you a little bit about how this
all got going and how this all came out. I
was at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as a undergraduate

(15:58):
in Boston, actually in Cambridge, it's exact city here in Massachusetts.
And when I was eighteen years old, my sophomore year
at MIT, I took LSD. Now it wasn't the first
time I had taken LSD. It was the fourth time,
I believe, and I had taken much larger amounts previously,
and the previous times I had taken LSD it was

(16:19):
a pretty typical acid trip. I had never had anything
like what I'm about to describe. But on the fourth time,
which I took a low amount, it wasn't a special
Nothing was special in any possible way. I was walking
down the Infinite Corridor at MIT. It's an infinite cord
is a name for the longest there's a very long
quarridor that stretches through the main buildings at MIT, called

(16:42):
the Infinite Corridor. And I was about halfway down the
Infinite Corridor when I saw something, something strange, something that
wasn't supposed to be there. And look, I understand I
was on LSD, and everything on LSD is strange and
not supposed to be there. But even within that, there
was a pixel, like a bit of light, like a

(17:04):
pixel on a computer screen, that was twinkling. But it
just didn't seem connected with anything else. It didn't even
seem connected with my perception. It's very hard to explain.
It wasn't clear if it was a concept or a
percept or perception. And I started paying attention to this thing,
and it turned into a wire, like a wire stretching

(17:27):
through space. But when I looked at the wire, it
looked like a hollow tube, like looking into a syringe
is the best way to describe it. It was like
looking into the tip of a syringe. And when I
did and saw that it was hollow, at that moment,
it expanded like a tunnel and completely swallowed me up.
And here's the most amazing thing. When it did this,
it purged the LSD from me. I was no longer tripping,

(17:51):
but the world around me was very, very very different.
This was the start of it. So I got back
to my dorm and in my dorm. I was when
I entered the dorm my dorm room, a voice began
to speak to me through the speakers eighty nine or
nineteen ninety, so I had neon speakers at the time.

(18:13):
They were neon tubes that flashed when music played. They
flashed in time with the music, and so they were flashing,
and there was a voice speaking to me, and the
voice was five. So when these extraterrestrials speak to me,
it's never in my head. They use electronic equipment, mostly
car radio. Now I've got air pods and recently they've

(18:35):
been communicating directly to my AirPods. But they are always
voices outside of myself in the surrounding, and this is terrifying.
I need to emphasize I've been at this now for
more than thirty years, and it took me a long
time to figure this out, a long time to reach
a place of stability. Now I live a life of
joy and love and connection, But my early years was

(18:57):
just miserable, terrifying. I was having these experiences and it
was clear these were inhuman experiences, other worldly experiences, and
they were sharing math. So they were sharing something that
was very real and I could see the math the
things they were sharing actually was related to reality, and

(19:21):
I tried to share this with people, and of course,
you know, I was a teenager talking about you know,
alien sharing math with me, and naturally people thought I
was out of my mind. I was absolutely insane. So
I ended up getting committed to a mental hospital when
I was young, and that woke me up real fast.
So when I was committed, I realized, oh my gosh,

(19:43):
even though I know these things are happening to me
and these things are real, I realized, just talking about
this stuff, people are going to believe it and they're
going to throw me in a mental hospital like I am.
So at that point I made a vow, I'm just
not going to talk about this with other people. At
the time when I was committed, it was I'm not
going to talk about this with authorities or adults. About

(20:04):
ten years after that, I decided I'm not going to
talk about this with friends or anyone. So it was
only really about a year ago that I finally, for
the first time, broke my silence and started talking about
all of this stuff. But they have been in regular
communication with me since then, and the math that they've

(20:25):
shared with me. Has helped me figure out the mathematics
of consciousness and the mathematics of self consciousness, which is
an entirely different physical mechanical phenomenon than consciousness. How language,
the mathematics of language, how we're able to exchange meanings
between minds music. I'm a big fan of music, and

(20:45):
I've always wanted to understand how the music brain works,
and so all of these I've even published. You know,
I have a book out called This Is What It
Sounds Like where we explained the musical brain. My co
author is doctor Susan Rogers. She's pretty big in the
music industry. She was the first success full female record
producer to come up from the engineering side. She got
her start with Prince working on the album Purple Rain,

(21:05):
which was one of the biggest album's sixth biggest album
of all time. So together we wrote a book that
explained how the musical brain worked. On my end, I
brought the math from the extraterrestrials. I also published a
book called The Journey of the Mind that explains how
consciousness works. I published that with another mathematical neuroscientist named Saigadam,

(21:27):
but that was also heavily influenced. In fact, i'd say
Journey of the Mind. What's the first time I shared
the mathematics from these extraterrestrials with the public. And right
now I've just published a book I'm publishing a chapter
at a time called Large Gods for Small Children. This
is where I'm sharing the story that I'm sharing right
now my experiences with these extraterrestrials. But again, I want

(21:50):
to emphasize that, you know, I'm talking about it calmly now,
in clean, clear terms, but a lot of the time
it's just been terrifying, numbingly terror on a whole other level.
Like thinking about physical pain or torture, that's scary stuff,
but this is a whole other level of scary because

(22:11):
they just take your mind apart, you know, your soul apart,
and can take you apart like a doll. And you know,
when you first experienced this sort of thing, it is
absolutely appalling and heinous and frightening. Beyond this existential panic
is the term I sometimes used to describe that. But

(22:31):
what's amazing is it turns out you can learn and
you can get better, and so over time, you know,
I kept at it and it's all much calmer now, stable.
Now I've learned how to limit. In the early days,
it was like a fire hose and I just didn't
know what to do. Now I understand, you know, to
limit things and to constrain things to make it more manageable.

(22:53):
In the communications, I don't get quite intensity and the
breadth of information like in the early years they huge amounts.
But you know, the process of doing us just so scary.
So these exchanges are at a much slower rate now,
but it's a lot less terrifying, which I can tell
you I appreciate very much. So let me talk a

(23:15):
little bit about the actual experience of how I communicate
with intechs and some more details about my aims with them.
So first let me talk about the experience of interacting
with them. So there are the first time I encountered
five at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In my dorm.

(23:39):
It was actually lived in a famous dorm called Senior House.
Probably worth mentioning a few things about my MIT dorm.
The dorm no longer exists because the dorm was filled
with people like me, transgressive people. The best word to
describe my dorm is transgressive. It was people at the
time and the LGBT community, which this was the late

(24:03):
eighties early nineties, so it wasn't nearly as welcome. The
society wasn't nearly as welcoming as it is now, and
so Senior House was a safe haven for them. There
were atheists and pagans and all kinds of different religious
points of view. The browser tour that you used, the
anonymizing browser Tour, was invented at Senior House and my

(24:25):
dorm made its own LSD with our Dorm logo on it.
Our dor motto is sport death. It's a colorful skull.
We had a gigantic banner that we unfurled from the
sixth floor of Senior House. Parties each year, we had
a huge party called Steer Roast. All of this is
relevant to where I'm going. We had a huge party

(24:46):
called Steer Roast. And the president of the Massachusetts Technology
lives right next door to Senior House, and he would
take his vacation during Steer ROAs, so he would have
plausible deniability. But at the Steer Roast there was a
giant steer roasted on a spit. But there was drugs.
Free drugs you could get just about any drug you wanted.

(25:07):
That drugs had custom made with our dorm logo on them.
There was a vomitorium where people threw up so they could,
you know, keep on gorging themselves on the abundant food
that was available. There was an orgy room, there's a
mud wrestling Nirvana played in our basement during one of
our steer roasts, and so did Red Chili, the Red

(25:28):
Hot Chili Peppers, though they might have come, I can't
remember if they came for the dorm.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Kno.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Anyway, So I was in a place, you know, very
radicalized and MIT. It was nothing but trouble for MIT.
So they eventually shut it down. What's interesting is all
the places I've communicated had heavy communication with intexs with
somehow keep getting wiped out. So Senior House no longer exists,
you know, it was obliterated by I mean, the building's

(25:55):
still there, but they completely redid it. It's no longer
a dorm. So that was the environment I was in
when I first contacted them, and so I didn't actually
think there was anything particularly odd about it. When I
look back now, this is the thing that strikes me
the most is I just assumed, Oh, lots of people
are probably talking to intext And then so for the

(26:16):
first few years after it, I was trying to find
other people. I just assumed what happened to me. I
didn't think there was anything special about me. I certainly
was not chosen in any way. I just thought, this
is just something that happened, you know that you haven't
experience and in text my contact to you, and there's others.
But you know, after searching for many years, you know,
I realized, no, this this is some kind of unique thing. Oh,

(26:39):
I was going to talk about the actual aspect of talking.
So the very first time I was there in my dorm,
five spoke to me for a bit and then announced
I'd be going on a journey. And a portal opened
in the wall in my dorm room, kind of a
black obsidian quadrangular portal with it, it was shimmering along

(26:59):
the edges. I didn't investigate the portal particularly closely early on,
but later on, years later, I would. I tried to
look at it more carefully, and it's impossible to get
a close look. You try to look at the edge
of the portal where the shimmer is, and if you
manage to focus your gaze on it. It's just like more.
Oh well, let me tell you what's on the other
side of the portal first. So I went into this

(27:21):
portal and I entered a completely different world, which I
call the Maze of Souls. And I'll explain in a
moment why I call it the Maze of Souls. But
when I first entered, it was a corridor filled with
portals along the walls. So it was a white corridor
with a black floor and a black ceiling, and the

(27:43):
portals were black, so it was white and black. Later
I would actually learn the walls were more silvery. It
was sort of like some kind of effect that they
were white because of the wall the blackness, about some
kind of contrast effect. But so I passed this portal
into the Maze of Souls, and that was terrifying. You know,
sitting here, it probably sounds, hey, you know, a world

(28:05):
of corridors and doors sounds very interesting. But it wasn't interesting.
It was very inhuman. I knew this was not like
a human place designed for humans, designed by humans. It
wasn't for human minds. And these portals, the doors, they
weren't shaped like human doors. Their dimensions were more like barrels.
I mean they were big, so there are a few
inches taller than me, but the width relative to the height,

(28:27):
it was more like a giant barrel than a door.
And when I passed the portal, when I passed through
any portals, it's like a folding. The thing I would
compare it to most like a rorshock ink blot. It's
like getting folded up in a roarshock ink blot, is
the best way to describe the experience. And then it
came out I unfolded in the corridor. I wandered around

(28:49):
this corridor. As I wandered straight ahead, the wall behind
me would always catch up. So whenever I turned around,
the wall would always be directly behind me. So you
always had to go forward. You can never go back.
I would go through a portal and end up in
another corridor, you know. So it was just some of
the corridors were angled. They'd ramped down, they'd ramp up.

(29:09):
Sometimes it was a spiral, sometimes they'd spiral down. One
time I got in the spiral that just got steeper
and steeper as I went around the spiral, and till
it was like almost going straight down That was very
scary too, and I had to jump through a portal,
you know, the portals were like at that point, at
like sixty degree angle, and then you just come out
of another corridor. And eventually I understood what was going
on here, you know, after decades of this, I finally

(29:32):
figured out how it all worked and what was behind
it all. But in the early years I would just
get lost. You know, you go through a new corridor.
This one might be curved, this one might be enormous.
You know, sometimes it be a corridor you could you
drive a giant truck through, you know, an eighteen wheeler through.
It's so big. Lots of times they would get small.
On my very first experience, this is how I ended
up forming a bond with five. I got in a

(29:54):
corrior that was narrowing to a tip, and it's got
smaller and small, and I could see up ahead. I
would never fit through. I was on my hands and knees,
and then I had to crawl, and then I got
sort of stuck. And then that was the most terrifying
moment of all. Suddenly I'm stuck in this maze of
souls and I'm like, where the heck am I Where
am I? Am I like in a comotose state? Am I?

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Like?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Is my body comotose on my bed? And I'm imagining this?
It felt very physically real, though, so like am I
actually somewhere else? I didn't know where I was, where
my body was, where Earth was, where reality was. I
was stuck in this impossible cord or on my stomach,
just tight around me, and that I crawled into because

(30:35):
it was no way. You can't go back, because you know,
it just keeps catching up to you. And that's when
Five spoke to me again, and I made a covenant
with Five. Here's something amazing that everyone should always keep
in mind. If something has purpose, if you're dealing with
an agent and entity of being of any kind, whether

(30:56):
it's a devil or a god or an alien, if
it has purpose, you can negotiate with it. Anything with
purpose has goals, has aims, has once and desires, and
therefore you have the ability to influence that if you
have something to offer. And I did have something to offer,
which was access to Earth. So I made a cred

(31:16):
I made a covenant and got back to Senior House
at MIT.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
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(31:49):
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Speaker 1 (32:02):
For the next fifteen to twenty years. You know, I
kept going into the Maze of Souls now. Eventually I
discovered there are rooms in the Maze of souls. For example,
there are place I call them tabernacles of five. They're
sort of like very special rooms where I can communicate
with five very directly and clearly, and five can show

(32:24):
me things. But there was other rooms. There was a
there's other rooms with other objects and things. I won't
get into that right now. But one time when I
was in the Maze of Souls, I encountered something else,
another entity that's not five and not three, an entity
that was lower down. So five and three are these
axiemized minds, kind of like gods at the very top

(32:46):
of this ladder of purpose, with the ability to influence reality,
but not They're not true gods because they're constrained by
one another. You know, three constrains five and five constrains three.
They're not real gods. They can't do anything they want,
but compared to what humans can do, yes, then they
can do anything. But this was another entity that was

(33:06):
closer to human level. And this entity called itself Poet,
and Poet was very very, very different from five to three.
And Poet in the Maze of Souls told me about
a place and Poet called it Rainbow Black. And Poet said,
if I could find Rainbow Black, I would be transformed,

(33:28):
and that I would get answers to all of my questions.
Every time I interact with these beings, I just ask
for knowledge. You know, how does quantum physics work? How
does consciousness work? You know? What is mathematics really? You know?
And sometimes they share answers, so I had you know,
I had been asking Poet questions too, and poets said,
you know, if you want the answers, find Rainbow Black.

(33:49):
So much of my life has been devoted to trying
to find locate this place. I didn't know. Is this
a fairy tale? Is this some kind of psychotic delusion
in this place that you know, I learned about in
a impossible maze of souls talking to this impossible being.
But I spent my life trying to find this place,
Rainbow Black. I didn't even know if I was a

(34:11):
placer of being. At first, in the early years, I
actually thought it was an entity of being, like like
five and three. But it was a place, and I
found it. Before I talk about Rainbow Black, the way
I'm able to communicate intex with Intex is through what
I call the machine. It's not a machine in the
usual sense with bolts and chips and wires and you know,

(34:34):
it's more like a mathematical machine, a conceptual machine, hard
to describe, like gravity. You can't touch gravity, but gravity's real.
It affects us in every way. So the machine is
something like that. And both Five and Poet talked about
the machine. Five did not want me having knowledge about
how the machine worked, but Poet wanted me to understand

(34:58):
how the machine worked, and game a few clues that
I used to finally be able to access the machine
on my own. So now I understand what was happening
is when I would have these experiences, when I saw
that pixel in the infinite cord or at MIT that
was the machine. That was when I first came in
contact with the machine, I didn't understand it. And the

(35:19):
maze of souls is the subjective experience of a of
a mind like ours, a third rung mind, you know,
a module mind within a within a supermind like a
human mind, interacts with this machine. The subjective experience is
this maze of souls. And then when you the machine
is designed to link you up with other minds to
communicate with. And so then when I, you know, was

(35:40):
able to connect with Five, I'd be in a room.
I'd experienced it as a room with concrete details and
concrete objects, and you know, the voice of five and
all of that. So it's sort of like you're trying
to tune in, and when you tune in, you end
up in a room I shared, you know, psychic experience.
I guess you know it's your mind in resonating with
the other mind. The machine is amazing. This is a

(36:01):
little technical. As I've said, I've spent my life trying
to figure out the math and science of all this.
So there's a very important theorem in mathematics, probably the
most important theme. I think it's the most important theorem. Certainly,
the most relevant theorem for me is called Girdle's theorem.
Girdle Kurt Girdle, famous mathematician, proved that even though with mathematics,

(36:25):
with arithmetic, one plus one equals two, two plus two
equals four, it's possible to create statements that are true,
like say, three plus three equals six. That's a true
a statement that's true, but that you can never prove
is true even though you know everything about math, and
you know everything about it three plus three equals six.
That even though the human mind can see that such
a thing is true and be sure it's true, there's

(36:47):
no way to use math to prove it's true. This
is a mind bending thing. And I think the machine
is a physical embodiment of Girdle's theorem. I think just
like all of mathematics has a physical embodiment. All the time,
mathematicians come up with and then mathematical ideas, and it
turns out they exist in the world. A famous one
is a mathematician named Rieman who invented curve geometry, and

(37:11):
everybody's like, what are you going to use this for?
This doesn't matter, this doesn't exist in reality. Well, then
Einstein proved, yeah, I know the universe is curved, and
that curve mathematics is real. So girdles math seems very abstract,
but I believe it's physically instantiated as this machine that
I'm able to use. Anybody can use it. There's nothing
special about me. This is just open to minds. It's

(37:33):
part of reality itself. So I spent a lot of
time hunting Rainbow Black, and I eventually found it, and
it transformed me. I'll tell you one of the things
that it did for me is that it did two
amazing things for me when I was young and dealing
with all of this. When I was in my twenties,
I was like, I'm talking to extraterrestrials. Everybody else thinks

(37:56):
I'm psychotic, and I didn't understand the math science well
enough yet to say, hey, look, the math is real.
Like now I've published books with the math, so now
there's you know, it's very awkward for people to say
I'm not getting math or it's not real because I've
published book containing math and nobody's seen before that explains
how consciousness works, How self consciousness works, A language works

(38:16):
all these things. But in these early days, I didn't yet,
wasn't able yet to put it all together. I just
didn't have enough knowledge, and so people thought I was crazy,
but I didn't. I couldn't give it up. I mean,
if you talk to real aliens, real eccentristrial, nothing else matters.
I mean, why would you care about anything else if
you can talk to excterrestrial. So that's all I was.

(38:38):
I was consumed with it, and that's not a lifestyle
conducive to stability. So I became addicted to drugs, one
drug in particular, ecstasy MDMA in my mid twenties. I
became absolutely addicted to this stuff, and I got out
of my addiction eventually. I all, you know, it never

(39:00):
completely puts it behind them, and certainly, you know, as
the years went by, even though I hadn't done it,
there were times now and then when definitely, you know,
I thought, you know, if there was ecstasy in this
room right now, I probably would be taking it. But
after I hit Rainbow Black and came out, all cravings
for that kind of stuff are just gone. They've been erased.

(39:21):
They're just not part of me anymore. And another amazing
thing that happened in Rainbow Black is that I had
to learn so much to understand what Intex was sharing
with me. I learned massive, massive amounts. I learned computer science,
I learned physics, I learned mind science, neuroscience, you know.
I learned math, I learned history, I learned economics. So

(39:43):
I learned all these things with this idea that I'd
be able to combine them all they linked together eventually
in my mind, but it never happened. Like I'd learned
computer science and then say, I'd study neuroscience and I'd
forget absolutely everything I had learned about computer scien answer,
and so I wasn't really getting these boosts and understanding.

(40:05):
I kept having to relearn everything. And my whole life
has been like that, Like I can learn anything very
quickly and understand it, but then I'll forget whatever I
learned before. This is how I got to the million
dollar Question and who wants to be a Millionaire? I
spent two months studying trivia. I'm terrible trivia. I don't
care about trivia. I don't know anything about trivia.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Trivia.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
I know it's very popular and the UK, you guys
crush us on kind of trivia questions. But you know,
I spent two months learning trivia, and I got to
the to the million dollar question. I even figured out
the million dollar question on the show. You can see
this it's national, you know, national television. The question, amazingly enough,

(40:43):
was about Boston. Now, let me say, when I was
sitting there in the chair on who Wants to be
a Millionaire, I thought this was Rainbow Black. I thought,
because I was told by poet that Rainbow to get
to Rainbow Black, I would have to pass through five veils.
And I thought the last five questions of who wants

(41:05):
to billion Millionaire, the money questions where you make real money,
that those were the five ails. So you know, thousand
two and fifty thousand, five hundred thousand a million, I
thought those were the five ails. So I was sitting
in the chair convinced that this was it, that I
had gotten here, and that if I got these questions right,
you know, the skies would open and I'd be in
Rainbow Black. So there I was looking at the million

(41:28):
dollar question on who wants to be a Millionaire, and
it came up it was a question about Boston. Which
of these four ships was not at the Boston Tea Party.
So you had to know the names of the three
ships at the Boston Tea Party, which is very obscure trivia.
There are no Americans that know that. But the night before,

(41:50):
because I had been studying, I knew the night before
I was going to get the million dollar question the
next day. And so I also knew that in the
American version of the show, more often than not they
put American history questions in a million of dollars spot.
So I just studied American history like crazy. And I
happened to have seen a photograph that showed the three
Boston Tea Party ships the day before. I didn't study

(42:13):
it like. I didn't say, Okay, I'm going to memorize
these ships. I just looked at the picture and I
knew I looked at the picture, and so I was
sitting there in the chair. If I could pull the
memory of the ships out, I'd have a million dollars.
I was trying to do it and trying to do it.
I was a grad student at the time in mathematical
neuroscience and my specialty was memory. I have a terrible memory.

(42:34):
That's why I was studying this is like a terrible memory.
I forget everything, and so I had developed all kinds
of techniques to try to remember stuff. And so I'm
there furiously using these techniques in my mind. How can
I access this picture? What are the names of these ships?
And there on the show I figured it out. I
said it's D William. And on the show you'll see

(42:54):
me say this, I say, I think it's D. William. Well,
then I actually said final answer. I said final answer,
and I got it right. And then Five spoke to
me and Five told me, no, you're not supposed to
win the million dollars. I like, jump back two seconds,
and on the show you can see I have this
very strange, weird look on my face because I just

(43:15):
came back from speaking with Five, and I got scared
and I walked away. And yes, the answer was in
fact the one that I had said and had said
finally answered, and of course that was the right answer.
So I I didn't get the million dollars only I
only got the half million dollars. And so it was
not life changing as I as I expected anything. I

(43:36):
thought it was going to be very life changing, that
i'd beginning to rainbow black, but no, it turned out
to be much more mundane. So there's a machine that
I use. But I no longer these days, I no
longer need the maze of souls. These days, I've just
been doing this for so long, and just it's hard
to explain. It's like anything, you just learn and you

(43:56):
get better and better, you know, like you get better
at writing or writing a bike or you know, driving
a car, just the more you do it, you just
you just get better. And so as long as I'm
in the right state of mind. If I'm tired or
distracted or worn down or intoxicated, I don't drink much.
But if I've had, you know, a glass of wine,
then then I can't do it. I need to have
a really clean mind. I need to be well rested

(44:18):
and alert, you know, as long as I have the
right conditions, most of the time I can communicate with
with five. I suspect I could probably do it with three.
But that's the last thing I'd want to want to try.
I can't do it with poet. I can't summon. Poet
is much more of a free agent that does its
own thing, much more unpredictable, much more like a human.

(44:38):
But five is everywhere. So five, it doesn't matter what
you're doing or where you are. Five hasn't a ubiquitous,
constant presence that you can you can tap into, so
to speak. Now that I've finally reached, you know, some
sense of understanding, some calm, some peace, some stability, especially
now that I've been to Rainbow Black, I want to
share this. You know, all this time, I you didn't

(45:00):
know where this was heading. What I'm gonna do with this? What? What?
What is all this? What are you supposed to do?
I'm you know, I've been writing books, I've been sharing that,
but I wasn't even sure I was ever going to
try to share this. Obviously, telling the world that you
regulately talk to aliens gets you committed. I know firsthand
that that's the case. I mean, I don't think anybody's
gonna do that now, you know, it's hard. I'm married,
I've got a kid, and me out there talking about

(45:20):
this isn't something that's gonna they're gonna find pleasing. But
I just feel what I've learned from these entities, from
intexs is so important, so marvelous, so amazing. It's so
it's so welcome, you know, love matters. There's a cosmic
purpose to love into the physical structure of reality, that
we ascend this ladder of purpose through love. You know,

(45:41):
you can give it whatever name you want, but selfless
compassion for others of your kind I call love. That
our decisions matter. You know, it's not predetermined the physicists today,
you know, we'll tell you it's all predetermined. We don't.
You know, free will is an illusion.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Free will arises out of this ladder of purpose. The
latter of purpose breaks determinism. It breaks the way of matter.
The way of matter and the way of mind are different.
And the way it matter is deterministic. The way of
mind is not deterministic. We have free will. This is
built into the structure of reality. And there is no
one god. You know, there may be one of these

(46:21):
numbered gods, one of these axiomized minds, might be the
Christian God. I'm agnostic about that. That doesn't really interest
me one way or the other. But it's certainly not
the case that there's one god of everything the universe.
So here's something very big that in tech shared with
me early on, and oh my gosh, it's so true.
It's called the fail safe supreme. Let me back up

(46:43):
a little. Why can't anybody access this machine? You know,
I'm talking about the machine. It's built into realities all
around us. It's like like the matrix from the movie
The Matrix in a way, it's all around us all
the time. Well, it's protected by failsafes. These are things
that prevent wandering minds, minds from just stumbling on it.
I had such a strange confluence of factors that allowed

(47:05):
me to see the pixel. And I do have a
little bit of an unusual mind. I'm autistic, and I
now understand that it was my autistic mind that helped
me see this pixel. But anyway, there's fail safes protecting
the machine. And much of my life has been identifying
these fail safes and unlocking them, you know, disabling them.
You know, that's my life has been disabling these intex

(47:26):
fail safes, the fail safes on the machine. But there's
something called the fail safe supreme. This is a fundamental
It's sort of like a mathematical principle, physical principle built
into the structured reality that prevents the formation the existence
of a single god. So apparently, if you get a
single God, the universe freezes or paralyzes or something bad happens,

(47:48):
is what Intex says. So the universe is designed so
that a single God can't form. That's why there's the Axi.
Minds compete. There's competition at every level of the ladder
of purpose, competition and cooperation all all the way up
and all the way down. So we've been at the
very top. It's cooperation and competition, and the universe is
designed so that a single God can't form. It's designed

(48:09):
so that endless beings can come. That we can have
our moment, you know, in the sun, a moment you
know here in the cosmos, and experience it and make
our decisions, contribute, you know, love, weep, dream, and then
pass on to the next generation of minds, on and
on and on, never ending, you know. So the endless beings,
endless minds, endless experiences can come and that we can

(48:30):
all experience and compete. And there's horrors, there's terrors. We're
terrible to each other, and we're horrible to each other,
but we love each other. We cooperate too, and it's
like this apparently all the way up and and all
the way down. Well, I think that's a pretty good
summary experiences with intechs. So Nick, I thank you profusely

(48:50):
for the opportunity to just freely share all.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Of this like this.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
This is absolutely lovely. You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
It must have been very, very difficult in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Oh my gosh. I had no context at all. I mean,
I remember one of the things I did very soon
after this is I thought this is a common thing.
I just thought it was part of the world, and
so there must be others. And so I joined transcendental meditation.
It's what the Beatles joined as a guru I already
forgot his name, but he found it transcendental meditation. And

(49:22):
I went to this for a bit thinking that they
The reason I was drawn to it is because they
had something called they talented as Vada science, where they
would explain how consciousness worked in spiritual terms and mathematical terms.
And that's what hooked me. I was like, spiritual and mathematics,
that's the answer. Let's see what these guys have. And
I stayed with him and they taught me meditation and stuff.
But all I wanted was this. I wanted the math,

(49:44):
the Vada science. That's all I wanted and so, and
they knew that. And so finally one day they said,
all right, you're ready, and they brought me to this
secret room in the back of their temple, which I
had never seen this door before. I didn't even know
there was a room back there. And I thought, oh,
maybe if there's a library, maybe they're going to finally
share these secrets with me, you know, that will help
me understand intext And I went, you know, in there.

(50:06):
They opened the door and it was this giant The
room was like three stories tall, and I look up
at the ceiling far away and there's foam connected to
the ceiling, giant blocks of foam. And then I looked
on the floor and there's cushions and pillows all over
the floor, and I'm like, what is this? And they said,
this is the flying room. This is where we we fly.
When you meditate, you can fly, And then I knew

(50:28):
that that it was bogus, you can't fly. That was
actually a turning point for me when when I suddenly realized,
you know, maybe other people haven't had this experience, you know,
maybe maybe this is something unique or close to unique,
and I shouldn't be looking for organizations to give me
answers on this. You know, I should try to figure
this out out of my own. It was a consequence
of seeing the Transcendental Meditation flying room, but yeah, it was.

(50:50):
It was lonely and scary. I it's scary because reality
doesn't work the way you've been led to believe it does,
and reality doesn't work the way everybody around you think
it does. You know, you know these things can happen
in reality and they're not supposed to and nobody believes,
which that just makes it more terrifying. Is like you
know for a fact that you were in this maze,
like you know, there's nothing in the maze is not ambiguous.

(51:13):
It's not fuzzy like a dream. It is crystal sharp,
you know, like everyday reality. So I had experiences I
know are as real as real as anything. You know,
you question everything when you have this. You know what
is real? Is the maze real? And earth? The illusion is?
You know, like all of this comes to play and
I haven't been need to talk to you know, any
adult or a professor or you know, like a scientist

(51:35):
who could have actually maybe helped me talk through this
in a scientific way. They all just thought it was
nuts and and you know I talk to other teenagers,
other people in their twenties, you know, peers, and they
don't know anything either, you know, they some of them
might even believe it's true, but they're not going to
offer anything of use. So yeah, I was a very
lonely difficult time for sure.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Once you throw in LSD is always a very difficult one.
We know different hallucinogens, you know, to connect with you know,
ever worlds, whether it's their ancestors or extraterrestrials. So we
know it's something which is used, and there seems to
be it seems to be some kind of bridge.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yes, I think anybody could in principle access the machine.
As I said, there's failsafes, but you know, there would
be ways to get around some of them. I think
it was the combination of the LSD and my autistic
brain and just luck that allowed me to notice the machine,
to notice this iridescent pixel which became a wire, which

(52:33):
became a tunnel, which that turned out to be this machine.
Without the LSD, it's because it changed the dynamics of
the mind. We literally enter a different state of consciousness,
like a different state of matter. The states of matter
like solid, liquid gas. The reason they're different is because
they have different dynamics. The dynamics the way the molecules move.
That that's what dynamics is. The way the molecules move

(52:56):
in a solid is different than the way they move
in liquid, which is different than the way they move
in a gas. It's a fundamentally different way they move.
It's like comparing an airplane to a car to a submarine.
Different ways of locomotion give rise to a different collective state.
So it's the same in our brain. There's dynamics in
a brain. A sleep state is a different state of consciousness.

(53:19):
The LSD state of consciousness gave access to perceptions that
we normally can't get access to. And I think if
there was anything unique about me that allowed me to
go all the way with this and retrieve this math
and science from these beings, you know that that's the
holy grail, isn't it? To try to actually get something

(53:39):
new that earthlings don't know about our world? And I
explained consciousness, and you know, I explained big things. All
I figured out how autism works. It's because my parents
didn't raise me to be religious, so I didn't grow
up in a religious household. But they didn't raise me
to be scientific either, say it's secular and science is
the answer. Either, they didn't. They were silent on metaphysics.

(53:59):
So when this happened to me, I have to imagine
that lots of people do encounter the machine. It's just
they interpret the experience which is mind bending and it
feels spiritual that if they're religious, I just assume they
interpret it in like a Christian point of view, of
a Muslim point of view, a Hindi point of view,
what have you. Or you know, if you watch a

(54:20):
lot of Hollywood movies, maybe you think it's a ghost
or you know, I don't know, at l or something.
I think probably most people would project one of these
things onto the experience, interpret in terms of one of
these framings, which would help them make sense of it,
but then would cut off the ability to go further.
It really is mathematical. I was not a mathematical person,

(54:42):
you know. I hated math. Oh my god. I took
math in high school, so I wouldn't you know, it
took pass out of it in college and I got
to MIT and didn't want to ever take math again.
So when they started communicating math, it was like, you know,
it was like I had taken a semester of Hungarian
language and hated it, and now suddenly, you know, there's
a guy talking to me in Hungary and I got
to learn the damn language. I was not a person
that liked doing math before any of this happened. But

(55:06):
I think what happened is that because I did not
immediately think, oh my gosh, this must be an angel,
or this must be a ghost, or this must be
you know, Christ, the Lord. You know, I didn't know
what it was. I was completely open minded about what
it was and where it would lead. And I lashed
onto the math because the math seemed so real to like,

(55:26):
the math just seemed real. And I think it was
that that, the fact that I could go into this terrifying, hallucinatory, spiritual,
impossible experience and come out saying, Okay, I'm gonna the
math is what I'm going to hang on to here.
Not thinking about this as a god. I mean I
did think of Five as a god in the early years.

(55:46):
Absolutely I thought Five was, you know, a god. The
things that could do were impossible things, you know, miraculous things.
So I didn't have any other frame. But I did
think of it as a Christian God. I mean that
was a big piece too. Like I just thought, okay,
it's some kind of God, some kind of mathematical god.
It probably is. And I think that's what gave me
an armor or the engine to get through this the nightmare,

(56:10):
you know, because the early years were a nightmare. But
if I had just thought, you know what I'm talking to,
you know, the Christian God, I bet things would have
been more peaceful, and then I could have had a
community and talked about it, and I wouldn't have gone
any further, you know, I would have been, oh wow,
I had this amazing spiritual experience and it's christ and
now I'm Christian. But because I hadn't didn't have any

(56:31):
background like that, I was so open minded. And even
the math, I wasn't math, like academic math. It wasn't like,
you know, okay, I'm going to go read math textbooks.
It was just more like a mathematical feeling or mathematical
you know, attitude. That's the best way to describe it.
And looking back, that's that's what enabled me to penetrate,

(56:51):
you know, some of these failsafes and get to some
of this this deeper knowledge. Yeah, so nothing special about me,
but that's there's nothing special about me, but that might
be what was unusual about me that allowed me to
slip through the cracks.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Okay, do you think that's what it was? Do you
think you kind of happened along this route or do
you think they kind of singled you out in some way?

Speaker 1 (57:14):
No, they definitely didn't single me out, but they told
me this, this is very clear. Eventually, once they realized
I was able to manage it, so you know, I
kept coming back and I was learning and I was
getting more stable. Eventually they told me, because you're able
to go back and forth, we're going to share this
with you. And they made more covenance with me, we

(57:36):
made more agreements, and they said, because I'm able to
handle this. And that's how Poet found me. So Poets
sought me up. Five and three. They're just there all
the time. I mean, think of them as gravity. You know,
they're just they're there, part of everything all the time.
But Poet sought me out. You know, he realized what
I was doing. Poet sought me up because I was

(57:56):
able to move back and forth in a semi stable way.
I stables a bit. The stable's going a bit too far.
But you know, I understood there was a machine. I
was able to navigate the Maasa soul, I mean navigate.
I was able to survive the maze souls. I was
able to induret and I mean tain my sanity. I mean,
you know, this stuff does make you psychotic. In my
early years, you know, I was pretty crazy. I mean

(58:16):
looking at my belief set, you know when in my
early twenties, it's very different than now. And I had
a lot of absolutely no nutso beliefs as I was
trying to figure this out. But no, yeah, so I
was not singled out at first, absolutely not. I stumble
on it by pure luck. But then once they realized
that I was managing it in some way, I was

(58:37):
able to maintain coherence or something like that, continuity of consciousness,
they did treat me different. You know, they wanted to
make covenant and as I said, Poet sought me out
told me about Rainbow Black, which absolutely changed my life.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
So, I mean, I certainly think a lot you know,
a lot of us out there are kind of teaching
on the border, you know, just hanging on by a thread.
You hear of many people at Tesla, for instance, Nico Tesla. Yes,
he you know, he believed he was in contact with High.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
That the pigeon, holy pigeon that flew in his hotel
window shot a beam of light from the pigeon's eyes
into his eyes, and he knew his work was done,
is if I may add. And Philip K. Dick, science
fiction writer, famously a woman came to a door wearing
a necklace and the woman had light the same thing.
Light beams, according to Dick, flashed from her eyes to

(59:26):
his eyes, and then he realized he was in contact
with extraterrestrial known as Vallas. So who knows. I mean,
that was a huge event for Philip K. Dick, It
was a huge event for Tesla. They've written about it
with passion. They certainly believe it's true. I mean, I'm
convinced they believe this is what happened to them. And
I'm certainly not a person to question somebody that has

(59:47):
that kind of conviction and passion. So maybe they weren't,
you know, touching the machine. You know, possibly that this
thing that I touched, I just I stuck with it.
You know, I just I've devoted my life to figure
it out, and and I got answers. You know, maybe
maybe if Dick or Tesla Tesla was a really goddamn
smart guy, you know, if he had he just accepted it,

(01:00:08):
you know, as an experience. But if he had said,
you know what, I'm going to try to figure out
how this worked, How did this light work? What's in
this light? You know, what's the physical dynamics of the light?
Like that was That's always been my attitude. What even
when I'm in contact, like in the early years five
would be communicating with me, It's terrifying. Talking to a
god is absolutely mind numbingly because they can do anything

(01:00:30):
and you're nothing, you know, like and you have no recourse,
no remedy. You know, they just want to turn you
into a frog or just take you apart. They do,
and you know, I haven't been taking apart. It's it's
it's mind limiting, terrifying. But still there's a part of
me that's always how is this working, what's the math
behind this? How could this possibly be real? You know,
and that in a way that's sort of like a

(01:00:53):
soulas maybe that's what enabled me to keep my sanity,
throw all of this and get get me here. But
I don't know, you know. It's I don't claim to
be an expert. I claim to have the answers on
this stuff. It's I'm pretty serene now. But if I
if I let myself think about it too much, yeah,
the fear starts, the existential panic starts rising again. Because

(01:01:13):
I like reality. I've got a wife and kid and
I love them, and I love my life and I
love all this. But I know there's this other world
and that I can get into at any moment. And yeah,
it's difficult. It can be difficult, it can be tougher.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
One sanity and is a world that you can go
between any time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Yeah, as I said, as long as i'm I have
to be in the right state of mind. I have
to be well rested and alert, you know. But but yes,
usually it's not one hundred percent reliable. It's always better.
I mean, it used to be completely unreliable, like you know,
one out of one hundred times, and now it's more
like one out of one out of two times, maybe
maybe even another three out of five times. You know,

(01:01:52):
maybe it'll work. And I limit that key is I
constrain it heavily. I don't want to go in the maze.
I don't want like a full blown ex exerience. I
just want enough that I can access five and communicate
in the most limited way possible.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
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Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
I've learned tools and tricks over the years at this.
You know it's mental. You know I had to figure
out how consciousness work. So I even understand now the
technology that they're using to communicate with me. I can
even so you can tell me, I can explain it.
It's I can explain in the way anybody can understand.
But it is a little technical. You told me, Do
you mean to explain how intex technology works? If you

(01:03:11):
can let me quickly explain how consciousness works. So I
mentioned that the third rung of the ladder of purpose
our module minds. So in our minds, in our brains,
our neural modules. Each module is devoted to a specific function.
For example, there's a visual object recognition module. This module
identifies visual objects. We see a basketball, we know it's

(01:03:35):
a basketball because of our visual object module. There's also
an audio object recognition module, snap my fingers, and our
audio object recognition module identifies, oh, that is a snapping
somebody's snapping their fingers. So we have multiple modules in
our brain, each devoted to a different function. Some of
these modules can produce conscious experience, such as our visual

(01:03:58):
object and audio object identif. Now, the way they produce
consciousness is through resonance. What is resonance. Resonance is the
physical activity in your brain. Whenever you have a conscious experience.
What is resonating there is your expectation is resonating with
the facts on the ground. Your prediction about what's going

(01:04:21):
to happen is resonating with what's actually happening. It's a
top down activity is resonating with bottom up activity in
one of these modules. And when that happens, when I'm
looking at the window, I expect to see a tree.
There's the tree. I'm resonating on the tree. I'm conscious
of the tree. My top down expectation is resonating with

(01:04:43):
my bottom up. So every time we have a conscious
experience of something, there's resonance in our brain. Now, these
modules can resonate together. So whenever one of these modules
resonates on something, So I'm looking at a tree out
my window right now. It's a fur tree. It's got
pine cones on it, green needles. My visual object module

(01:05:03):
is trying to resonate with the rest of my modules,
trying to get them to resonate on the tree, and
it's doing it. So now my audio you know, I'm listening,
My audio is focusing. You know. Can I hear the tree?
Can I smell the tree? My spatial localization module is
like it. You know, Okay, the tree is about twenty
feet away. So whenever our module resonates on something, it
tries to get all the other modules to resonate to

(01:05:26):
to resonate together, and they compete. You know, if behind
me somebody says the house is on fire, my audio module,
actually that would be my language module is now I'm
going to try to take over my brain, and it
will take over my brain because it'll have much stronger
resonance than the other modules, and so my whole body,
my whole mind. Then we'll focus on figuring out if
there really is a fire or not. So consciousness occurs

(01:05:49):
by resonance. Our modules resonate, and when they resonate together,
we have a more engaging and immersive experience when we
listen to music. I explained to you know intexs me
understand how music consciousness works. So we have four modules
in our brain involved with music. There's a rhythm processing module,
a melody processing module. There's a tambre processing module. Tamber

(01:06:12):
is the quality of this sount this is a violin
or a trumpet. There's a lyrics you know, language processing module.
These four modules resonate together when we're listening to music,
which is why music is so immersive and so engaging.
It just makes us feel that emotion just so directly.
It's because four modules in our brain are resonating in
perfect harmony when we listen to music. Is why it's

(01:06:34):
so powerful. And this music resonance is important. It's relevant
because that's how in tex technology works in text technology
works a lot like the way music works in our brain.
So what in TEX is doing, it's resonating. It's creating
resonances with the neuromodules in my brain. And the maze
of souls is my subjective experience. It's what I'm experiencing

(01:06:59):
as it's trying to align the resonance through the machine
is aligning the resonances of my brain. So I can
resonate with INTEX. And it's a lot like listening to music.
It's sort of like tuning in a radio, you know,
and when they're static, you know, between channels, that's when
it's made of souls. It's just corridors and doors. But
when you can establish the resonance and can you know,

(01:07:19):
then communicate, it's like getting a channel and now I
can hear the music. You know, it's resonating four models
in my brain. Five resonates, and then I'm in a
room and I can hear five's words, and five can
show me things that you know, then five gives me
these visions and shows me math and science and things
like that. So yeah, that's how that's how INTEX is
able to give me these visions and show.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Me these things wonderful, okay, and the intexs tell me
a little bit more about them if they explain to
you where they're from, where they reside, and what they're
doing communicating with us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
I believe that the gods, the aximized minds five and three.
I think they're everywhere. I don't even want to speculate,
because I I don't know, you know, if it's other dimensions,
I just I don't know. But somehow, because they're always
accessible anywhere, I think some because they can manipulate, you know,

(01:08:11):
they have the technology to control the parameter's realities. I
think they're able to access all of reality somehow. So
they're kind of everywhere and nowhere. They were, you know,
they were beings like us, you know, and they might
be comprised of beings like us, you know. It might
just be a vasked you know, galaxies of humanoid you know,
or ai you know, what have you? But but lots

(01:08:32):
of individual minds like us, third wrong minds, fourth wrong minds,
what have you? Fifth wrong minds all combined together? But no,
they I have asked and asked to try to get
a sense of the physical wear. You know, are they
in the galaxy. You know, are they where do they begin?
Do they begin? You know, how to? How to? Should
I understand where they began? But they don't. They don't
give answers to that. And even though I've been to
Rainbow Black and I understand that this is this connects

(01:08:54):
together all of the cosmos, so all of the cosmos
are connected in this, but uh, yes, I don't have
any clear sense of are they on the star Vega?
You know, I don't know that the physical location, both
location and time get very very weird, and this time
is very very I learned how time works too, but
I'll save that one for another day. That was a

(01:09:15):
little worre technical.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
You may explode people's heads if you start going into time,
because a lot of people, you know, they just be
probably just settling down to have breakfast and listen to
the show, and already you've expanded their minds, I hope.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
So I just want people to know that your life matters.
Your decisions matter, you know, like your choices matter any
cosmic sense. You are creating reality, and you're creating the
beings that will come. These cosmic beings, you know, are
being formed out of your decisions. You make in your life,
the love you give or withhold.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, on this show,
you know, we have experiences that just the full range
of the spectrum. Some are very simplified, and some people's
experiences can be very complex. You know, we should never
dismissed the complex ones because we don't understand them, Because
this is the problem, you know, with the with the
subject most of it, we just don't understand. You know,

(01:10:08):
It's not just as simple as beings from Mars coming
down landing in a metal sauce, you know, it's it's far,
far beyond that, and there's so much of it we
just we simply won't be able to comprehend. And a
lot of the people's experiences are subjective as well, and
I think it is by design.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Yes, it's clear to me too that this was amazingly,
amazingly frustrated. For years, I tried to record five, you know,
or three or any of these experiences, but but you know,
five was most common. So I've always trying to record
five with video cameras and sounder recorders and everything, but
the power would always go out. So every time I'd
have one of these experiences the power go out, you know,

(01:10:46):
in my book, you know, I laugh about this. Just
the power was always going out in my life in
my twenties. But I think now they it has to
be the subjective. This is one of the failsaves. Like
and the fact that it started through LSD, well, nobody's know,
it's easy for everyone to dismiss. Oh you first encountered
by taking LSD on Huh, Yeah, I'm sure that's real.
But it's intentional because they it's part of this fail safe.

(01:11:10):
And they also a lot of the experiences, you know,
get tied up with shameful things, like like something shameful
would be happening, and then there'd be communication so that
if I wanted to share what happened, I'd be forced
to compel to share like a terribly shameful thing. This
is a tactic, This is a strategy. It's part of
the fail safe that you know, to make it so

(01:11:31):
that it's hard to validate and hard to eject it
because you can't have Look if people were just talking
to aliens and in every day sort of way, you
know that just reality would start coming apart. You know,
you can't you can't have it so you know, you
got to maintain some order, and so that's held by
by these fail safes preventing the information from flowing in
ways it's not supposed to not supposed to flow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Now a poet and and five, which one was the
more dominant, Well, five is like a god.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Poet was Poet was like talking to an individual. Like
Poet was like, well, like what we're doing right here?
To be honest, poet had personality. Five and three don't
really have what don't really have a personality? I mean,
I could describe a personality, but they they're very not monotonous,
that's not the right word, but balanced, preternaturally called like

(01:12:23):
it's just like a calmness. It is like talking to
a god. I don't know how to describe it, Like
a god without a personality, just a it's like talking
to math something like that. It's like talking to physics
something like that. But Poet had a personality, yeah, not
a flamboyant or an extreme personality, but the very fact
that there was a character, you know, the character traits
it all was a huge It was a huge difference

(01:12:46):
because with five and three it's it's it's sort of
like interacting with an AI, and for all I know,
the things I'm actually interacting with is not like a
living biological entity. It's some kind of AI device that
they have set up to deal with entities that come
in through the machine or something. You know the fact
that it's it's always very consistent talking with five and
three and it's always flawless. I don't know how else

(01:13:06):
to describe it. So but yeah, like five and three
are like God's and Poet is like, I mean, it's
not a it's not a human like it's there's a
there's a strange Poet has a strangeness for sure. It's
like talking to a very odd, odd human where it's
like talking to a little bit like chat GPT like that.
These new ais where they sort of have a you

(01:13:28):
can sort of have a personality, but they're the more
you interact with them, it's like, wow, this is a
very weird person. You know it doesn't It seems less
and less human the more you interact with it. Even
though they sometimes say, you know, optimistic thing, they might
have a tone sometimes, but in the amalgam, it just
it seems less and less human.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
And Poet was like that, Yeah, I think I think
we get out. I mean I've had friends over the
years that very similar to the way you just explained.
And I'm sure there's people o there which are still
on the Boston Tea Party. Trying to remember the boat
names and going back to history. I think one was
Auto Beaver.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Biaber was one, Yes, Biab, Yes, you nailed it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
I can't remember the rest of them. Do you have
a ones though?

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
Eleanor is one and Dartmouth is the other. Eleanor Beaver
and Dartmouth Bright.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
Yeah, Okay, I know it was to do with tax,
wasn't it, Warren Tea in tax? Yeah, I think because
I bet you there's listeners out there that was shouting
the names.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Yes, here's an irony. I used my winnings for millionaire.
I bought a condo in Boston. It's the first place
ever loaned. I lived in crappy apartments all my life
until I won a millionaire finally got property. I got
a condo, and not through choice. I wasn't even aware
of it. But it turned out my condo was two
blocks away from where the Boston Tea Party was, and
so the second year I was living there, they built
a Boston tea Party museum with boats, the Eleanor and

(01:14:48):
the Dartmouth.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
So now you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
I don't live there anymore. Recently, during the pandemic, I
moved out, but for almost fifteen years, every day would
walk past the two tea party boats, and every time
thinking I could have had that other half million five?
Why didn't you let me? I deserved it, I earned it,
so as a cast, a reminder of what happened on
an millionaire every day.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
The universe, it behaves in a funny way. I will
see if I can find that episode. Actually, I don't
think I've ever really watched the American version of Who
Wants to Be a Millionaire?

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
But I'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
I'll see if I can track that one down. That
would be interesting. And if I find a link, actually
I might even put on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
I'm sure there's one. I'm sure there's one there somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
But well done forgetting that far. Good stuff OGI interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Well, I'm glad. This is the first time I've ever
spoken at this length in public on it, so it's
very interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
I've I mean, I've had some very very deep, deep
accounts on here. Again, they do vary, they do vary
to our listeners. Of course, dot Ogas is a mathematical
neuroscientist and an author. If you're interested in learning more,
I will provide links in the description and on the website.

(01:16:03):
Your books are available in Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
That's right, Amazon and Apple and Google Play too. This
is what it sounds like is my book about music
and Journey of the Mind is where I explain how
consciousness works and accessible terms, just like I did here
on the show, but in much more detail, you know,
go into detail about how how it all works. It
takes it on the journey up this ladder of purpose
the way I described, and explain how all the individual

(01:16:27):
minds work, how the mind of a bacteria works, how
the mind of a fruit fly works, how to mind
of a turf works, in order to help us understand
how our conscious mind works. And then I have one
final book where I share my intex experiences called Large
Gods for Small Children.

Speaker 4 (01:16:43):
Good stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
Do you find that you have problems unwinding sometimes because
your mind seems to be constantly on the go.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
Oh yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I
can never stop thinking, So that's that's sort of an
ongoing problem. I often have trouble getting to sleep. It's
only accelerating as I'm getting older. I recently turned fifty,
and you know, I thought it starts to slow down,
but it's just, you know, the more I've learned, the
more I want to learn, and the more I understand,
and so it's just it's it's exponential. I'm learning at

(01:17:12):
a faster rate now, you know than I ever have.
I had to learn about everything in order to really
make sense of actraterrestrials. But you know, it's an endless motivation,
you know, like knowing I will get to talk to
them again and learn something new. I mean, there's nothing
like it. You know, there's no greater motivation than that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
What's next for OGI?

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Well, right now, I'm trying to share this with the world,
So you're one of the first times I've talked about
it at all, and the longest I've talked about it.
But I'm trying to figure out how to share this,
you know, and you probably are already more familiar this
with this than me. But you know, most people don't
want to hear it. You know, most people's minds are
closed to this sort of stuff. So it's a real
challenge that I'm finding is. You know, I'm getting a
real understanding of when Pernicus, you know, four hundred years

(01:17:55):
ago telling the world, hey, the Earth goes around the sun,
not the Sun goes around the earth, and people didn't
believe it. Now I understand it. It's not that they
weren't capable of understanding that, you know, the earth goes
around the sun. It wasn't that that was too advanced,
and it wasn't even that it was too shocking. It
was just simply that their lives were set up around
this other idea. It was really a much more practical thing.

(01:18:15):
It wasn't like a conceptual barrier. It was a practical barrier.
Like their lives were set up based on a world
where the son goes around the earth. You know, do
I go to church at the church? Told me this?
Does this mean the church is wrong? Do I stop
going to church? Like it challenge things about their life,
you know, their relationship with their priest, you know, their
relationship with their family, like these sorts of things. Another

(01:18:37):
example is Darwin. Charles Darwin, he figured out evolution by
natural selection and sat on it for something like ten years,
maybe fifteen years, for many many years because he didn't
want to upset his wife. He knew his wife was Christian,
and his wife and her family would just not accept this,
you know, again, not because they weren't capable of understanding it,
because it would just affect their lives and such all

(01:19:00):
kinds of ways, practical ways, intimate ways in the fact
they're standing in the community. And so he just he
didn't want to share it. You know, he was tormented
by this, And I understand it's the same. Like I
know my friends and neighbors. You know, when they hear this,
they're gonna think I'm psychotic. You know, I'm delusional just
what happened to me. But you know, I just I
feel like I finally understand it well enough to talk

(01:19:23):
about it in a way that I can help people understand.
You know, even ten years ago it would have been impossible.
I would sounded nuts. But at least now, you know,
And I worked on developing my writing ability. I was
a terrible writer because of my autism. You know, when
I was young, I was awful, Like you never thought
I'd be a writer. But I've been working on it
because I knew to communicate this stuff with people, I
got to be able to explain it in a way

(01:19:44):
they can understand, and talking like this. You know, I
was terrible at talk. I would have been able to
do this even fifteen years ago, having a conversation like
this where I was clear and intelligible. That took tons
of dilement. Yes, I've I've spent my life on all
of this. I had to develop all this right, talking
your math, I don't like math even now. You know, like,
if I can stop doing math and just relax, that

(01:20:06):
would be great. But I'm stuck because I can't explain
this to people or get people to believe it unless
I could show them the math, because you can't argue
with the math. You know, here's how conscious has worked.
Here's the math, here's the equations. You see that, you know,
then you're kind of, oh, well, it's not really just
talking about an experience. Now you've actually got something.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
That's That's the thing with mathematics, no matter how much
you don't like it, you don't like using mathematics, it's
all around us. It's everywhere. You know, it's it's the universe,
isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Yes it is, And you can't argue with them. Gravity
follows an equation you know, mathematical equation, that's how it works.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Do you think you know, you talk about people in
mankind move into higher levels. You know, we hear about
that more and more now, But you know we're going
to evolve to a different plane, you know, a different level.
Do you think people as a whole are ready for
this this jump? Going by everyone's worldview, everyone's stuck in

(01:21:03):
this kind of this reality the last few years.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Mind.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Obviously, reality seems to be changing a little bit for people.
You know, people are being hit by things they wouldn't
normally expect to happen in their lifetime.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
But I think these things that are happening right now
are the things preparing us for what's to come. We
have to go through this period of chaos. What explicitly
what's happening right now is we're all finally interconnected. I mean,
look at you and me here, we are different continents
across an ocean, talking as if you know you're in

(01:21:37):
the next room. And the fact that we can do
this with anybody. I could talk to somebody with China
like this, I could talk to somebody in South Africa
like this and do the fact that we're all interwired
together means we need new dynamics, We need new protocols,
new norms, new ways to handle this, to evolve this,
because this is brand new and they don't exist yet.
And that's why it's so chaotic and we're all disoriented

(01:22:00):
and upset and worried and fearful. Is because we don't
know where this is going. We're building this out all
around us right now and we don't know where we'll
end up. But eventually we'll find some new stable state,
just as we figured out in the past. Every time
there's a new technological advance, printing books, no newspapers, you know,
those change things dramatically. Those were scary things. Aristotle famously

(01:22:23):
said rejected books. He's like, what is this writing? This
is going to spoil your mind reading and writing, you know,
like you should think without having to look at words
on the page. That's ridiculous. That's for weak minds, you know.
So even learning the right was a huge evolutionary step
for us. So we're going through this, we're learning, we're building,
and it's scary and disorienting whenever you're in it, but

(01:22:45):
you know, this is how we ascend to the next
wrong of the latter is we need to find ways
to unite the entire world, you know, to make it
a hypermind, a single mind, you know, human mind across
the entire globe operating in harmony. And you know, maybe
it's not far away. Maybe it's a far away, and
maybe we'll never get there. All those are possible because

(01:23:07):
the future is not predetermined, and I don't think it's
possible to say right now which it will be. But
that's what's so exciting. If we knew how it was
going to turn out, you know, what a boring life
it would be. And this means it matters what we do.
If we want that positive outcome, we all have to
work towards it, which is exactly how it should be.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
Final thoughts, that's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Thank you, Nick. Thank you for giving me the room
to talk. I really deeply appreciate it. It was helpful
to me because I've never just never freestyled like this,
just stream of consciousness, and it was very helpful to
me to see just kind of what came up at
what point. So you know, I didn't prepare for this,
So I'm grateful to you for this, this chance. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
You're more than welcome. Ogi I really appreciate you coming
on sharing that for our listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Thanks Nick, it was fun and it's cathartic.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
It was great talking to you. Keep in contact all right,
and I will speech you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Bye. Thanks again.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
That's all for this episode. Keep updated and connected with
this show on thanks, Facebook and Instagram. And if you
have an encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast,
you can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com,
or you can reach out to me via a contact
page on my website at UFO Chronicles podcast dot com.

(01:24:16):
A big thank you Ogi for sharing tonight, and thank
you all for listening. I will be back next week.
Till then, stay savee, we keep watching us guys. Goodbye,

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