Ep.253 Black Triangle In West Dulwich (Throwback)

Throwbacks are where I re-release old episodes from the archives. So don't worry if you have heard it already, as 'New episodes' will continue to come out on Sundays. To get some of the old episodes heard.
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For this episode, we meet Ben from Somerset in the UK, Ben will be sharing two UFO sightings. The first one was in 2018 When he witnessed a black triangle-like object while at a train station, then his second in 2022 where he witnessed bright lights while flying over the Grand Canyon. And then a story from his old mum about the time she met a NASA employee in the 1970s who said he saw alien artefacts on the moon.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll do away five seventeen. Do you want to report
a UFO hanging in? We don't want to report every
thirty one. Do you wish to report a UFO over hey,
we want to one of those data areas thirty one.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Do you wish to find a report of any kind
of it? I wouldn't know what kind of report cloud times.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Areas thirty one me neither there were self. If it
was anybody above us to pass us, Like thirty seconds ago,
we were sending one top of golf negative, okay, OFFI
the UFO. Yeah, it's murder two nine o'clock.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, I'll passed over.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I go. I don't know what it was, but it's
from at least to three thousand feet above us. See,
I passed out over the top of US ninety one one.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
You just called both to me before.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
They're after staying the airplanes he is. I swear to
God more calm on an unidentified object every liberty four
call or calm on an unidentified flying object.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
A Welcome to UFO Chronicles a place where people share
their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had
an encounter, I would like to be on the show.
You can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

(01:48):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are you all.
I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO Chronicles podcast.
Tonight we're in the United Kingdom to speak to Ben
and Ben sharing a couple of his UFO sightings. He
also had a psychic mum who was a believer, and
she met a NASA employee in the nineteen seventies who

(02:08):
said he saw alien artifacts on the moon. Ben is
up next, but first, if you enjoyed a show and
you would like to help support the podcast on Patreon,
you can do this for as little as one dollar
a month. Head on over to www dot patreon dot
com forward slash UFO Chronicles Podcast. You can also find

(02:30):
a link in a description of this episode below. Any
help is very much appreciated. Now on the show, Hello Ben,

(02:54):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Hello, nice to speak to you. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
You're more than welcome. Thank you for joining this today.
And you're calling from the UK?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes indeed, Yeah in Somerset, beautiful part of England, not
far from from Glastonbury.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Beautiful place, beautiful, famous for music festivals and cider.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah. Indeed, and who knows, maybe UFOs as well. But yeah,
I'm actually some specific I'm in a place called nether Stowe,
which is famous for the poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who
was very imaginative, one of the great great artists of
our time and thinkers. And I'm also a stone throw
away from Inkley Point as well, which is quite interesting

(03:33):
as well as a as a possible UFO hotspot, I guess,
but yeah, it's a bit. It's an amazing place. Somerset
one of the best places in the country. I agree, lovely.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Okay, Ben, you have some experiences to share. Would you
like to start the beginning please, sir?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, absolutely, Well, my approach to the whole subject has
quite come from a myriad of angles, really, and I
as a kid was always very very interested in euthology
and science fixed to a degree, but I was never
like a man. I had sort of sci fi geek
kind of kid. I came of it very much from
a novel angle because my great grandma's unusual character. She

(04:07):
my grandmother, she was frame with me, old mum, and
she sort of brought me up for most of my childhood,
and she was psychic and she didn't take money for it,
but she was great. She was like a parmer. She
she knew dates, names, all sorts, very accurate, and she
used to read in Isaac Asimov for days. She was
very much into science fiction, but she also had a

(04:27):
deep love of actual euthology. So there'd be Zachariah stits
In or sits In or HP Lovecraft, but they'd also
be you know, von Danakan and people like that Morning
the Magician's Holy Blood and the Holy Grail books Communion,
you know, that were also in the bookshelves that piqued
my interests, And so she was more than open to
it all being real, not you know, being make believes.

(04:50):
So and also when she'd watched things like Close Encounters,
I remember asking, you know, I remember seeing that as
a kid, perhaps a bit earlier than most would, and
she definitely introduced me to a different perspective with it
that perhaps most kids you know wouldn't have. That's perhaps
a bit more typical nowadays, where you know, you're joining
the dots between the science fiction and reality and it

(05:11):
being a possibility and not just mate believe. And really,
from quite a young age, I believe that there was
a possibility, so that on one side I was into
things like Lake seven, doctor Who, things like that that
were fun. I also very much was into to an extent.
Obviously we didn't have the Internet then, you know, kind
of as I saying, things like morning and magicians, the
whole area of Vondanak and charoits of the gods. Now,

(05:34):
she got her interest, I think from my great grandfather,
who was a tailor or Mills, sorry Mills, not a Manning,
and he was out in Russia in Revolution. He was
a sailure. He was a local counselor for a little
while in East London and was a popular there as well,
and a teacher, very wise man and a sailor for
a while, musician and a teacher, as I say. And
he traveled and say New Orleans during the jazz boom,

(05:56):
and he I think was he filled her with lots
of interesting idea is I don't know if he was
a believer in authology, but he knew HG. Wells for
a while because he was part of the Fabian society.
Even though he didn't come from money. He was deeply intellectual,
and I guess he talked his way and he got
to know them all and people like as I say,
HG Wells and as a result, because it's quite a

(06:16):
lefty as a result, he I think again, you know,
because War of the Worlds and everything really won my
old mum's imagination, and I think living in a household well,
on the other side of things, the actual mum was
quite cynical about it, though she was interested but not
really believer. So I saw it from different perspectives, which
is after all, what life's like. But it was, as

(06:37):
I say, he just really really fascinating to me. I
remember a show called The Boy from Space, which probably
most people have forgotten. You might remember it was on
many years ago that was very sort of uncanny in
the way that it depicted the whole area of aliens
visiting Earth, and it just all these shows would win
my imagination. But I also had a real interest say

(07:00):
that I think came from my male mum and the
family to an extent. But I did have a few
sightings in my childhood, particularly in mid teens. I had
a bit of a nervous breakdown in mid teens when
we folks moved to Somerset. But I do remember seeing,
you know, floating orbs or lights that would shoot off,
and that really then I knew that, hold on, there's

(07:20):
more to this than just you know, me being interested
watching too many sci fi shows or something. You know,
I couldn't have imagined that, And I think that was
the connection with her, say, with mele Mom, because she
was into conspiracies before they became fashionable and then unfashionable
and now dangerous. I mean, you have to be careful,
you tell. But in the old days when it was
just a bit of fun, absolutely, you know, and for

(07:41):
years and years I'd follow these stories. And obviously with
the Internet it's opened it up a bit more. But
then you don't always know always hu to trust because obviously,
at the moment with uthology, you've got, you know, so
much information coming at us all the time, whether it's
podcasts with real accounts that are genuine, or or more
money making exercises coming at it from an entertainment angle.

(08:03):
That's where things obviously like Coast to Coasts come in.
They're great fun, a lot of people on those shows
are probably genuine, but also it can be just sort
of more entertainment, perhaps closer to the sci fi than
the reality, so to speak. But yeah, I mean through
my life, I've just always had the interest the same
melmm used to collect newsletters and send off for handouts
and things or that she'd get all about conspiracies and

(08:25):
a lot of it would be alien stuff. And that's
how I picked up on a lot a lot of
it also in the seventies because my great as I said,
my great grandfather who knew HD Well, he was a
Mills as I say, But in the seventies she met
an employee of nurse actually when she was running a
B and B for a short while in London in

(08:45):
the seventies, and he told her that he'd seen proof.
It was the photographs or what of alien life or
previous visits by humanity to the Moon. I'm not quite
sure what it was, which actually reminds one of a
lot of that old HG. Well's The First Men on
the Moon, one of my favorite films when I was
a child. Funnily enough, but see would sort of recount

(09:06):
that to me, and I was like, wow, yeah, obviously,
I mean this was something my mum, who's not really
a believer, would also tell me about and say, well, yeah,
he definitely this definitely happened, and so growing up with
those influences, is say, always sort of peak my interests
got me really fascinated in the whole subject. And I
mean I live in a UFO hotspot now, so see,

(09:27):
as I said earlier, near a nuclear power station Glassbury.
And occasionally, you know, you do see sightings. It's possible
to see the odd mysterious light. But the best sighting
I've had in recent years was actually last year. I
had two, one was in in recent years, and most
notable one was in West Dullige, which was last October,

(09:50):
when I think, you know, to be honest, from listening
to a lot of kind of encounter shows and podcasts
and things, one can easy. But as I was living
on my own at that point as well, which I
think helps real influences, I think as a result I
was really really into it. I was also working from
home and talking to the odd friends and about it,
but not ever really talking to anyone that was deadly

(10:12):
set against it. So perhaps I was very much normalizing
it in my own head. I've often wondered what was it.
It almost seems like I made it happen, almost but
I didn't have this in Asia. It was quite extraordinary.
I left the house and I walked. I was just
literally walking bays the west side of the train station,
and this sort of was pretty big black triangle came
over and it was making a worrying noise, which makes

(10:33):
me wonder if it was a military But there were
people there and they weren't looking up. But I couldn't understand.
I tried to grab a rather clumsy photo that didn't
come out very well, which is what they all say.
I kind of can understand how that happens now, because
when you actually see something and you've kind of wanted
to see it and it actually happens, you can't believe
it's actually happening for a minute, and so I can

(10:55):
imagine that that's you know, I know a lot of
the cynics say, oh yeah, they just make it up,
but honestly, I can see how it happens. You get
a sort of freeze, body freeze for a second where
you're so excited and so to this that I wish
i'd videoed it. But as I say, it may have
been military, but it wasn't extraordinarily very impressive. I'd love
to think it was the real thing, so to speak.

(11:16):
And as I say, it flew over where Studies train station.
I felt like alfurd something that it's like a guide
to the galaxy. It was a bit surreal, to be honest.
It was an amazing moment. A few years earlier, I
also had something. I was over flying over the Grand Canyon,
completely different part of the world. This is when I
was working Avanama, musician and writer and artist. I was

(11:37):
working a few years on architecture design shows and We're
on the way to one of these events, and I
was flying above and the Grand Canyon and there was
the blinding lights that were sort of you know, now
I could again you know that there were people on
the plane, they didn't seem to be looking. It reminded
me a lot of a little bit of William Shatner
twente own episode where with the alien on the wing.

(12:00):
Its very funny episode those I love watching that for
a giggle. But I sort of looking down and there's
like loads of these sort of very bright lights, I
mean very so bright, a bit like when you look
at the sun. It's not a good idea to keep
looking because your eyes were that and they were about
four or five of them down there. I mean they
were bright. And I got to the event in Arizona.
I think it wasn't. And when I got back, I says,

(12:22):
you know, I've got to look this up, and so
I looked it all up and yeah, lo and behold
are very similar pictures online of Grand Canyon UFO. Same
with black Triangles in the UK. It seems to be
quite a lot of sighting. So those are two of
my sort of biggest sightings. I used to see sort
of glowing a little bit on the horizon, would shoot off,
as I say, in my teens, a little bit. But

(12:43):
those have sort of been the main things in recent
times in terms of concrete sidings that I've had. But
I've always, as I say, I had an interest. I
mean when I enjoyed a hobbyist of writing and I'm
getting a phone call from and it's very bizarre conspiracy
theories called Anthony J. Hilder, who was I don't know

(13:04):
if you remember him, but he was like this very extreme,
quite ahead of his time, like an extremer version of
David Ipe almost but kind of. He would talk a
lot about scull and bones and Satanism and secret societies
and aliens and things. And I knew of him because
I'd also written to Richard D. Hall who in twenty

(13:26):
eleven about my book that I'd written, which I don't
know whether to mention or not, but it was about
it was like a science fiction thing about UFOs. It
was just an escapist thing. Really. It was just a
bit of fun and I put that out there and
I think I get this phone called as a result.
It's funny because my particular book was rare because it
was the only one that'd been written about real something
Vril Power source called Rill, and there's lots of conspiracy

(13:49):
theories about it. I've read about it in Morning the Magicians. Anyway,
he was a kid. Anyway, he called me and he says,
in very sort of thick so I'm Karen from Santa Monica, USA.
I'm here to tell you this is real. This is
not you know, lies are it? And it's sort of
very kind of I could barely understand what we're saying.
It was sort of drawling on, but it was great fun.
I was so excited because I've seen him, I think

(14:09):
once on one of these channels. Because for a while,
I don't know how it happened about fifteen years ago
on the sky somehow you got shows by people like
Richard D. Hall and even Hilda about all these conspiracies
and whatnot. That all that's been banned now by Sky
you can't get any of that, and even on YouTube,
a lot of it's getting banned. But back then, somehow

(14:31):
it slipped through the net. So I knew about him
from that. So yeah, he called me all the way
from Santa Minaca. In the end, we never met up.
It was a shame because he his colleague, he's right
hand man, did call me and that's me at the
Georgian Pilgrim in rat Can bring about, but we never didn't.
He died not long after. And the sad truth is
when I was out there, when I saw the UFOs

(14:52):
in Grand Canyon, I didn't realize he was still alive then,
and he didn't actually live that far from where I
was living in Newport Beach. I know idea he was in.
You know, there's kind of a small world, But sadly
I missed the opportunity there, but would have been lovely
if we've met him again. So yeah, I mean, through
my life, I've had so many interesting experiences that have
just kept me excited and interested in it and I

(15:14):
just feel that also because Catalina Island as well. When
I was out in America, I was just lived opposite
there and I used to see lights occasionally, but nothing
that significant. And again, in hindsight, I've heard was he
with a tic Tac incident that I was also in
quite quite well a very significant hot spot finnily enough,

(15:36):
around the time of that tic Tac incident in twenty eighteen.
I was actually living out there then, but I had
no idea at the time. So yeah, I mean, whether
it's the HG world's connection or as the same old
mum sitting since she's reading I was on a day
she was fascinated though in the reality of it, I
think that's the key, and I think she was. She

(15:56):
was open minded on it. I got that influence, And
so when I've seen UFOs, I think the other thing
to remember is I think fear probably puts a lot
of UFOs off from appearing to people, because I guess
sci Fi is kind of grain it in us to
expect an alien attack or whatnot, like all the worlds.

(16:16):
But I did get the feeling that a lot of
them probably are very kind of peaceful and quite the
opposite and observing us, perhaps not as in a nasty
way like hgu WEL's painted, but in quite a fearful
way even you know, obviously, with AI developing as it
is at the moment, and I had quite an early
insight into that for various reasons a couple of years ago,

(16:37):
it is quite where it's chilling really what the possibilities
are with that. And so I think obviously with disclosure
bubbling up at the moment, with shows like Weaponized, I mean,
the thing is, I did watch an episode of Weaponized recently,
and as much as I love that show, it was
all about music, and I'm musicians. I was I should
be really happy, but it just rang alarm belts for

(16:58):
me because it was just a long interview with Robbie
with like what's going on. So sometimes even the shadows
or even the things you think you can trust, you've
got to be a little bit. I'm not saying you
can't trust that particularly show, but it put a few
question marks in my mind. So there's so much information
out there, it's just cunning it all really and finding
out working out what's real or not. But if you've
seen something with your own eyes, you know, it's real.

(17:20):
It just gets frustrated, and I think at the moment
because you feel that we're on the edge of a
real kind of potential breakthrough with UFOs and acceptance of
it or alien life, but also there's something holding everything back,
and it's like it's going around in circles. You know,
you're getting actual government, you know, public meetings or whatever

(17:41):
about about UFOs for the first time in history, but
it's not even on the British news. You know, you
think they'd be interested. You are the more interested in gossips.
So it's a fascinating time. And as I say, right
through my life and say, book books like Holy Blood
and Holy Grail, Morning Magicians, I was steeped in and
all that, But as I say, it wasn't as I say,
solely from the fantasy angle. There was always an interest

(18:02):
also in music. You know, people like Gary Newman and
David Bowe and Ultravox would write songs about aliens and
so again, you know, I think perhaps those songs meant
more to me because I felt that they weren't just escapist.
I don't know, but certainly, as I say, growing up
in a household where it was as I say, believed
in on one side, not on the other. I think

(18:23):
it gave me quite a useful kind of perspective from
different angles moving forward. Really, But yeah, I mean, it's
with the whole area. It's just about as I say,
being open minded and receptive. And then I think there's
a chance, you know, the peerter one. But I think,
as I say, it's just about belief. But it's always
been something that I've always been interested in, as I say,
And I hope, you know, I hope that in the

(18:45):
next couple of years, with the whole AI thing coming up,
that if there is some sort of disclosure that's perhaps
more mainstream, that it's it's the real thing, you know,
that it is not some sort of faked, you know thing,
Because obviously, people like David Ike, you know, whether you
believe in him or not, they're getting sort of censored
more and more so it does get more difficult to

(19:06):
know who's genuine or not. As I say, shows like
you know, obviously, shows like Doctor Who's Star Trek and
Hitchhiker's Goal, these shows that they prepare people on one
side of things, but they also leave people very fearful
and unreceptive because they just think it's all fantasy. But
life can imitate art, art can imitate life, so you
just have to remember that. You know that often the

(19:28):
most amazing things, like I mean, as everyone points out
the flip phones that we you know in Star Trek
in the sixties, communication devices, I mean we have them
now with mobile phones. It's all come true. So definitely
you know that there's no reason not to believe. But
I think, as I say, I would say that my
main reasons for coming on here is that I would say,

(19:51):
as someone who passionately believes in it, I just think
there needs to be a very measured new approach with
it because I just think there's too many UFO almost,
too many podcasts, too many things out there where it's
getting a bit confused with all the Russell brands of
this world coming in who weren't even interested in it
a few years ago through four or five years ago.
So I just think it needs a clear kind of direction.

(20:13):
Hopefully your show will be part of that.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Hopefully, But yeah, I mean that's about the problem with
the subjects. You know, you have got a lot of
good information coming out. Unfortunately it's it's a bit like
a polluted river. We've got fresh water coming down from
the mountains and then you have sewage which is being
pumped into it. And unfortunately that is the way the
subject tears. There's a lot of good information, but a
lot of bad information, and regardless of what their agenda is,

(20:38):
whether it's just to make money or whatever, I don't know,
but there's a lot of rubbish. There certainly is a
lot of rubbish out there, and there always has been.
It's just you have to kind of separate what's real
and what's fiction.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, yeah, Well that's where the NASA story was so
import when I was a kid, because the fact that
you know, Mel you know, has said on one side
of the coin, and she was a believer that I met,
you know, a NASA employee, believed in it. You know,
he'd seen alien proof of alien lives, you his members
of you know, No, it was absolutely quiet, one hundred
percent believe. On the other side the side, the cynic
was a bit more of a cynic with my mum,

(21:10):
who was not believer in it. But even she said, well, yeah,
he definitely said this. You did say it, you know,
And when you've got a cynic saying well through britty teeth.
So I had a as I say, a very interesting
well that must be true then example as a young child.
So perhaps in a way it does, I say, it
did make them more open to it. But I would
say that, as I say, there's just so much information

(21:31):
at the moment, which is one of the things about
the Internet, you know, in a way less was more
because when I was growing up, and as I say,
you had books like Communion and you could go perhaps
to meetings of uthologists or you could They're always going
to be fakers, but it's so much easier now to
fake with technology, so much easier to also, you know,
try to make money from it in some way. That's

(21:52):
why I didn't really I wasn't sure whether you mentioned
my book as many years ago and my interest in
Vrill as I say, Anthony J. Hill didn't passionately lead
in it as a free energy source in the Tesla mold,
you know, and the Nazis were obviously trying to harness
the power that you know, people like NASA with Operation
paper Clip tried to tap into. And he, you know,
he really was very passionate held her about the subjects,

(22:15):
and it kind of scared me a bit. Actually because
I was only just trying to write a pop boy
a bit of fun, you know what I mean, A
little sci fi, a bit of fun when I was
unwell and you know, something to do. And it was
just really a case I got really carried away with
the concept and the ideas, and as having written to
Richard Hall about it, so that was that was a
real eye opener, and so as I say, it was
a kind of bit of sweet to know that I

(22:35):
was so near but yet so far from Hilda himself
when I was out there. But as I say, in
childhood again, you know a lot of heavy metal bands
also into eufoses and all this. So I suppose, you know,
when you've got these myriad, just like anybody else, you've
got a myriad of different directions from it. And it's
unfortunately most people are directed though by the mainstream media
or the mainstream entertainment world, and so as a result

(22:58):
they tend to sort of get this in or disbelief
from that. I guess. I suppose because aertainment has primed
everyone up to be scared, and as I said earlier,
with the war of the world and everything, it's something unfortunately,
it's quite a long tradition of people just assuming they're
going to attack us, and I think it's that fear.
Perhaps it repels them because the same fast joy. I'm
sure we're peaceful, But as I said, I think the

(23:20):
next couple of years. I'm quite religious too, I do believe.
So I think that the next couple of years, with
AI coming up as it is, where it's literally that
the possibility it might attempt to replicate and overtake us,
I think then you're getting quite an HG World's type
War of the World scenario, or almost a Brave New

(23:41):
World type scenario of how it's all gonna unravel in
front of our eyes. I think a lot of people
who are a bit in the dark about it, follow
the mainstream media and the mainstream vendors. I don't think
they quite realize them. And I've been watching a lot
of debates and lectures by the creators of AI, so
I suppose I'm a bit more flewed up on it.
It is really quite terrifying, and I'm just curious because

(24:03):
I haven't heard a lot of talk on this, how
the whole alien life, how that will all tie in,
whether it will assasserbate or speed it up. Whether the
AI thing will immediately you know, that will be disclosure,
or how it will happen, We'll have to wait and see.
It's a bit like a real kind of sci fi
novel coming alive, a little bit. I mean, I think
as I say, I mean, I've got assigned Ray Bradbury

(24:26):
and I love I love science fiction. I love Martian Chronicles.
When I was a boy, I saw that that was
a work of fiction that I believe. I don't want
to scare people that could be very I think close
to reality. From studying this deeply, you know, obviously not
everything David Ike says is necessarily true, but if you

(24:48):
believe in the concepts of how can I put it
without sounding like I'm kind of getting a bit too imaginative,
but kind of like shape shifting and everything else. I
know from having looked to new foot into ethology closely
that certainly there's a believe that that's possible in reality,
not a sci fi again, not a sci fi that
there's a possibility of that, and that they might even
walk amongst us to quote. So, I mean, it's fascinating.

(25:10):
There's lots of ways to look get it, certainly with
again everything going on with the nuclear situation, artificial intelligence,
the war in Russia. It's all a bit dystopian. And
I think because so many people are kind of programmed
by social media, there are also a lot of the
active jobs and industries at the moment all in technology.
So the whole generation of millennials really have been sucked

(25:33):
into thinking it's okay to never leave a machine, to
always communicate only on a machine, to do things really
that are quite anti human at one time. And I
think the whole ai things tied into that. It's almost
as if we've all been steered. I think, perhaps because
I'm a little bit older, I can have perspective of it.
But you know, I was, I had no news. I
was brought up in a Steino school. To an extent,

(25:55):
I missed a lot of schooling early in life because
of illness, and so I think growing up, you know,
rather than seeing loads of friends, I was, you know,
spending a lot of time with older people, and one
of them being into euthology. Obviously, as a young man,
obviously had a slightly biased view. But yeah, I remember
watching films like Post Encounters but two thousand and one

(26:16):
as well, and reading about you know, the Dogone tribe
in Africa in morning and the magicians, and you know clearly,
you know these things were around long before the Internet,
and I think these were the things that got my
imagination fired up, really imagination. People might say exactly, and
I would counter, well, no, I just think it gives
you an interest, and I think it just it gives

(26:37):
you something that you can take with you in life.
It doesn't mean you imagine you a posed. It doesn't
mean that you're magic. You knows so many people around
the world who see things, and I've seen things that
you know there's obviously something to it. We all know that,
but somehow everything is geared to us not believing that.
And then, as I say, I'm not anti religion, I

(26:58):
don't believe that. You know that leaving the UFO's means
that you are. There are references in the Bible and
the film, etc. But obviously with the agenda that the
BBC has, whatever that is, and with everything, I don't
think most people really quite realize where we are with
all this. And you have to be careful who you tell,
which is why I suppose it's so great to come

(27:18):
on a show like this to talk openly about it,
because you know, I remember thinking as a child, because
I'm a musician, and I remember thinking, is it amazing that,
you know, bagpipes developed at the same time in ancient
Mesopotamia as they did in Cornwall or whatever. And it's true,
you know, when you look, you know, how did they know?
They didn't have internet? You know, was it some sort

(27:38):
of telepathy? They hadn't discovered each other. These were completely
despar at parts of the planet. They weren't even you know,
they wouldn't have known each other's existence alone letters or
anything like that to say, hey, this is how you
build I mean, you know, exactly the same sort of instrument,
exactly the same point in time. So even things that
are practical and scientific that science wouldn't be able to
explain like that always piqued my interest. There's more to life,

(28:01):
that there's more to human development or intelligence than we think.
And it's the same from the perspective of all the
alien depictions you see as shown by de von Danak.
And though again you look him up and you know,
just because one individual happened to hit lucky with the
subject and do well, and that individual might have something
dodgy in their past. Doesn't mean the whole thing isn't

(28:21):
is nonsense, And that's the important thing to remember with
all this. You don't shoot the messenger and also be
careful with the messenger. Is So it's such a complicated subject.
It's a very simple subject actually, but in terms of
who you believe in the perceptions of it, as I
said five years ago without Russell Graham weren't really talking
about it. The clearly things are going in the right direction,

(28:42):
but whether they're the right people to be talking about it,
I suppose it is the issue a little bit, But
how can we know until there's any genuine, you know,
genuine disclosures. But I certainly think that you know, looking
back through time. Another aspect as well, just to bring
us up to date with a bit of a sci
fi connection a little bit, because it's like something out

(29:02):
of sci fi. I was reading that DNA strings can
actually be replicated and emailed and across and information by AI,
and that again, even though it's not really the alien
subject as such. Again it poses the question of if
life forms are coming from that angle, if in ten years,
fifteen years, that was to say, happened, If AI isn't controlled,

(29:25):
and there's a problem with that at the moment, then
one can imagine, you know that aliens, alien life would
most definitely want to get involved. It's not a twilight
zone or et or some sort of answer, you know,
they would definitely want to get involved and to either
you know, control the situation or safe humanity. It could
even pose a religious question. So it is a very

(29:48):
very interesting time where you honestly feel that everything is
coming a little bit to a head. And that's one
of the reasons why I wanted to come on the show,
because conspiracies, you know, doing this, That's why it's in
the in the dictionary. Guy Fawkes is the most obvious example.
And I think that, you know, certain when I look
back through my life, not only is it coming to

(30:08):
a head I think generally the whole UFO subject, but
it is for a lot of people personally as well.
They've been into all their lives, like myself. So yeah,
I mean that's kind of where I'm coming from it really.
I mean, I haven't had an abduction experience as far
as I know, I've never had hypnosis to find out
that particular angle of things. In terms of actually having
met any aliens or anything like that. So I can't

(30:31):
sort of say that I have unfortunately, much as I'd
love to say I have. But you know, I think
the fact that I've seen some very notable sightings obviously
in firstly in well when I was a child in London,
a little bit later as well in Somerset, but certainly
in recent years, so the Grand Canyon sighting, which I've
got a good photo of my own personal phocus on

(30:53):
my blog actually, and also the West Duddedge one really
really have peaqued my treads a lot. Again, along with
all the wonderful the encounter shows, particularly yours, I think
are that bit more, you know, believable, because they say
there's a lot out there that kind of straddle the
two scenes a bit in the terms that they put
bridge the gap between reality, which a lot of people

(31:16):
don't want to believe in the truth of UFOs and
alien life and science fiction, and with people like two
thousand and one and closing encounters as a kind of
gray area not quite science fiction but almost. I don't
remember there being at the beginning of posting Counters a
little thing saying this is true, a true story. Maybe
there is. I haven't seen it for few years. But

(31:36):
as I say, there's lots of perspectives with the extreme
being it's all nonsense, it's all sci fi, and I'd
say lots of gray areas, not just of sci fi itself,
but of the whole conspiracy field and the whole euthology
field itself, be it the Billy Myers or the Nick Popes,
all these people or that. Do you know the history channels.
I tend to sort of go more for trying to
find the more subversive debates and lectures on line and

(32:00):
try and get out there and meet people. That's why
I was sad not to meet Anthony J. Hilder properly
I could have, but that's by the by. And Richard D.
Hall I'm not so sure about. He's not so much
euphologists these days, more an agitator. But you know, certainly,
when I look at what's out there, I'm not agitated
what journalists kind of enjoyable agitated. I mean, he was

(32:22):
paying demonized by the BBC, but that seemed to be
to do with something that wasn't UFI related.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Do you have an interest in the para normal? Did
you'll love the unex Network Dot com. The X is
your streaming audio and video for everything supernatural, strange and
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(32:56):
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Speaker 1 (33:16):
It's two is the X x X. So there, it
is very complicated picture at the moment, and quite also
you know, how how will the disclosure safely happen if
it can happen, or as I say, it may just

(33:37):
unravel naturally in connection with AI. And of course there's
also a new conspiracy theory on the block that there'll
be a fake alien thing go on in future produced
by AI. So that's going to make things even more complicated. So,
I mean, it is a fascinating time. And if that happens,
then the aliens might say, up, you know, whether we'll deal.

(33:59):
We've got something to say about this, so who knows.
I mean, all these, all of these are all they'd
all sound like sci fi plots, which is perhaps why
I enjoyed writing when I was younger of it. But
now I mean, this is all, you know, true stuff,
and I think that, you know, it's fascinating to see
how it works, you know, play itself out. And I
remember lyrics like when I was a child, I remember

(34:21):
listening to Down in the Park by Gary Newman and
lyrics like my Love is a Rape Machine and talking
about clones and strange machines and aliens and really, when
you if you really, you know, study what's going on
at the moment with AI and everything else, and if
you're into what we're into. Art really was imitating facts,
you know, whether it was Hawk Grin reading too much,

(34:43):
Michael Moore Cockett I think they even got him in
the band at one point, or Jeene Roddenberry actually knowing
you athologists you followed just in real life, which he did.
You know, we didn't know all that years ago. You know,
we just watched Star Trek. We have a clue, you know.
But see mild mum, as I say, she gave me
that perspective I think she was so well read, signed
Ray Bradrie, Isaac Asimov's every year. But also, as I say,

(35:05):
she'd met people in Nassaberd believed in aliens. So as
I said, I was coming out from all those perspectives.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
I do let your term as an off a day,
all right, I've just made that up for myself.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
There, I've just invented a word. There you go, a
true original. Maybe it's Coleridge influenced in me. I don't
know if he believed in UFOs. I'm sure he did,
you know. I mean, as I said earlier, with ancient times,
the Romantic poets, they were open. You look into the
poetry they wrote, and there's loads of references to because
obviously they were bound very much by religion and Christianity,

(35:38):
but you know they were obsessed with nature and spirituality
and the universe. And I'll roll in it. And so
absolutely I'm sure that Coleridge, though he didn't write a
poem on UFOs, I'm sure he would have believed in it.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Ill if I don't remember, right, he has not wrote
a book. And it was about finding God. So you
had human beings that left the earth in search of
God and you also had some aliens that left their
planet in turn to search for God, and the two
meant it escapes me the name of the book now,
But yeah, that was an interesting one. And you're absolutely

(36:13):
right when it comes to AI. I think when you
have people that grew up pre Internet certainly have a
different opinion when it comes to AI compared to the
youngsters now that are post Internet.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Not all. I mean sometimes it's a bit like I
remember meeting a kid out in America who was about seventeen,
and he said to me, Ah, I says, what music
you're into, maate? You know music things? Oh, I love
anything pre nineteen ninety I said, what, Yeah, pre ninety ninety,
as I don't listen to anything after then everything's yeah,
probably even earlier than that. And it sort of reeled

(36:47):
off all these names of stuff from years ago. And
not that it is correct. I mean that there is
good music around now and you just have to search
for it. Doesn't get as successful as it used to
or should do, because they're corrupting. But that's another conversation.
But what that shows is that youngsters can think differently,
think outside the box. I mean, you and me aren't
that old. Anyway, we're quite young. But the point is,

(37:09):
you know they can and hopefully will be a bit
more different in future. But it's very difficult because if
all that, and it's not just slight it's for young
people saying for older people. But if all your heroes,
be they sporting, musical, film stars, whatever, they're all saying
what everyone in the media is saying, which could be
any you know, whether it's to do with COVID, the war,
Ai aliens, any of it. You know, they're impressionable, and

(37:32):
we're all impressiable even as we get older. To give
someone's a favorite film star wars. We can believe what
they say, and that's the only thing. You know. Sometimes
people think for themselves. But there's so many more external
you know, as say the narcissistic nature, Instagram, Facebook, it's
all sort of pulling people in certain directions often, so
why I try and stick clear a little bit of
social media. But it's, as I say, it's just too

(37:55):
much information coming up people. So it's a bit confusing.
But there are a few kids that think outside the box,
and I think, as I said earlier, it's the same
issue with too much information on youuthology it's very easy
for a naysayer to come up. For example, I'll give
you an example. I mean, there's probably videos already out there.
In fact, I saw one the other day where I thought,
this guy's different. I'll give him a try, and I listened,

(38:15):
I realized he was. You know, I think he was
pretty much a cynic. But he built such a powerful argument.
All these people that I'd heard in the odd podcast
or the odd UFO show that I like or would
recommend that have infiltrated the stuff that perhaps is genuine,
and that person has just come along and picked cherry
picked all the ungenuine stuff, you know, that the untrue stuff,

(38:38):
and they've lumped it altogether and made it all look
like a pile of nonsense. And so that's what I'm saying.
It's so easy to kind of for the whole subject
to get you discredited, which is obviously ridiculous. I mean,
how can you think we're alone in the universe? This
is what I say to anybody. Do you seriously think?
I mean, and people that do believe we're alone in
the universe or believe things as they are, ie that

(39:01):
you know, nothing has been any different, talk to everything.
The government tells us and everything. I mean there are
people like that, even intelligent professors all over the place,
because we've seen that last couple of years that people
will swallow anything if it's presented well enough. So yeah,
I mean it's a tough one, but I think that's
very interesting with I think, Asimo, if you said about that,

(39:24):
that that plot line, because again that maybe are imitating
life accidentally on purpose, because yeah, I do think that.
I mean I've often one might even wonder, well, how
does one know if gray aliens or even aliens or not.
I mean, they don't seem very organic, They seem very
they seem to communicate from why by telepathy, but they

(39:45):
could just as easily be AI robots. I mean we
don't know. I mean, the AI robots being created look
so realistic, and as I say, there's reason to believe
that that they Unfortunately it does sound like a sci
fi but they could actually potentially. I saw this in
a I think a statement on having wanting to pause

(40:06):
for six months the whole A. I think there was
a statement that came out and I'm sure in there
it's said about it's possible for them to actually be
physical outside of the robot realm where they could actually
as organisms DNA create themselves in the biratries. I mean,
it's extraordinary. It's like something that's silent green, but you know,
a million times magnified and will actually come alive. I mean,

(40:28):
actually reminds me a little bit of an Old Outer
Limits episode, that one whether the creature comes alive. I
think it's the first one of the first episodes of that.
It's a brilliant episode actually, but again, you know this
isn't sci fi, this is reality. Quite extraordinary, and in
this Old Outer Limits this creature calls goes crazy and
that he communicates with Now, I mean whether whether that

(40:49):
sort of thing is going to happen, And that's what
I'm saying there. You're your example there of a plot
line where humans left Earth to find God and aliens
came to find God or whatever. I mean, that's where
AI is taking us away ultimately from God, even though
many say we'll have something more godlike than intelligence. Obviously
if it's artificial things sort of tooking away, taking away

(41:13):
from it, even if, as Elon Musk has tried to say,
I think one of the videos was a deep fate
you know you can live forever with like something out
of reminds me of Cold and Lazarus, the old Dennis
Potter plot line where where's literally a head in a
fridge and it can live forever through AI. I mean,
these are the sorts of things that are genuinely being discussed.

(41:35):
So clearly everything's going to come to a head, I think,
and the religious questions and fundamentals and fundamentals of that.
And whether you know, whether it's a second coming of
over Jesus we recognize or or something more unusual, We'll
just have to wait and see, I mean, whether it
might all fizzle out and that actually, you know, all

(41:57):
the name sayers will just get deleted from society. We'll
just sort flip into the background and we'll just everything
will turn into AI mechanized world and people will just
have implants that make them. You know, they're already doing
it with Elon Musk and the whole neuralink thing. It
could be that, you know, people will all be updated

(42:19):
a bit like Microsoft Windows back in the day. No
one will question everything and everyone will be perfectly happy
by twenty thing. We'll have to wait and see, but
it is an interesting time.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
It certainly is. You know, when it comes to AI,
you know, you have all the deep fakes. Now there's
videos you know, you can see of apparently people and
they're not people. It's all you know, it's all digital
and stuff. So even now you don't even really know
what you're seeing on TV is real anymore. And especially
you know, if you grew up with films like you
said two thousand and one with how and the Terminator

(42:52):
movies with Skynets, we all know what happened there. It
all turned very sound very quickly.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, there's also a lot of peoples, I say, like
the millennials, because I've worked in sales a lot in
the past, and I mean, you know, I mean we're
a good salesman. You know that they'll say anything, you know,
and they'll make anything sound good. I mean, Adolf Hitler
could have probably haired a team and they would have
you know, this lot would have made it sound convincing.
You know. They don't seem to question anything, is what
I'm saying. And it is funny. It always not funny.

(43:18):
It's kind of kind of strange. I saw a funny
article actually, and a subversive newspaper called The Light recently
which is a sort of Somerset publications. That it was
going on about how he was a neighbor, that he's
a neighbor of Dave. I think probably should mention it
a neighbor of a member of Pink Floyd one and
one that's left. And it was sort of explaining in

(43:40):
this article that musicians just don't you know, I mean,
if I'm talking to me, clearly from a few moments,
you know, believes everything that everybody you know in the
media believes, whether it's about the war or COVID or anything.
I don't know quite how he got on such contentious
subjects so quickly, but he clearly has talked to him
a few times. And this article is like, you know,
musicians pop cult rock because they just don't you're not

(44:01):
subversive anyone. They don't want to change the world anymore.
Is what their job used to be, you know, whether
it was the pistols or the sixties or the hippie
dream or whatever. So yeah, I mean it is more
difficult now, but then you know, they've been so steered
and controlled since the last twenty five years with social
media that it is bound to go this way because
they think they're free because everything tells them they're free

(44:23):
because we're all connected and we will have such connectivity
that it seems that way. So if I used to
believe that, I mean, but you're right. I mean, even
what you were saying, all the connections, like with Hall
in two thousand and one, it's a warning, you know,
and things can be real, that they really can. I mean,
when I was messing about, as I say, writing about
real you know, as a Tesla type free energy source

(44:45):
that Nazis believed in and all this thing, you know,
part of me thought, maybe it's true. Part of me
thought also, you know, you shouldn't be right about dangerous things.
But Dennis Week usually I don't want to attract any energies.
But then part of me thinks, you know, now that
you know, people really talking about things like this. But
you know, I mean, for we know, for real from
talking to ansany j Jilder, it's real something like that.

(45:07):
You know, I think it probably is, and that's why
people like Tesla got bumped off. I expect, you know.
So it's so many, it's a very complicated time with
it all, and I just think it's it could be.
As I say, the most bizarre situation playing out in
the next few years, where you know, is it a
real aided invasion or a fake one? We don't know.

(45:28):
Perhaps there won't be any aided invasions. I doubt it.
He's more likely that the AI is going to be
the problem, and it'll be more a case, as I
said earlier, intelligence coming into somehow sort of either get
us back to what we were supposed to be or
or you know, learn from us. And it could be
quite a strange, well situation. Hopefully we'll live to see it.

(45:50):
But it's it is, It is quite well. It's frightening,
but it's also exciting. I mean, the thing is, if
you're in a situation where you know there's a huge
you know, pandemic, fake or real, or there's a huge
war that's going to happen, and you know that people
care about don't give a damn about it, depending on
the media and the propaganda. But whatever situation or danger

(46:10):
that's looming, they're all a lot more tangible than this
situation with AI. Yet there doesn't seem to be a
lot of sort of massive panic about it. Just a
lot of talk. But as I said, I've heard some
only really I've not really heard any direct kind of
relating the two really are sufficient intelligence and extraterrestrial intelligence.

(46:32):
And obviously, you know, I've always held the belief that
it's highly likely wear extraterrestrials ourselves, because we we go
against everything, all the nature on the planet. We were
always going against it, whether it's to trash heteros, and
we always seem to be I mean when the Adam
and even us or the part of us that's always
been as both demonized to a point by Christianity unfortually paganism,

(46:55):
but which is unfortunate, but certainly because it's not Satandim obviously,
but but obviously that part of us, the nature in
us that cold, with loved, etcetera. And he was religious.
You know, it's something that we need to reconnect with badly.
And it may be that alien life, you know, once
we've gone completely away from it, because we're literally like
something out of the way. It's going blade run or

(47:16):
Tron or one of these sci fis come real. Then
it may be a case that, you know, if we
really have become machine in the future, that the aliens
try to get us back to what we once were.
If they're in our time over us by AI. I
mean if AI can literally recode itself a million times
more intelligent than what it is, then really, I mean,

(47:37):
it's could be a sort of new God, wouldn't it
sort of strange new techno God? I mean it is
these sorts of fundamental questions are the sorts of questions
that are being asked. Only a year ago, you'd have
thought listening to me is either you know, completely bonkers
or is too much pott or whatever. But the reality is,
you know this is true. You know, this is the
way things are going. It's still there's still so many

(47:59):
that that don't want to believe, partly because we all
want to believe what we believe in. You know, a
bit like religion, isn't it or anything? You know, It's
a bit like if James Randal whatever his name was,
came on here and says, oh, we all want to
believe in UFOs you see, h man. You know, at
the end of the day, whatever it is, you know,
we all want to believe in certain things. But we've
all got a right to believe what we believe in.
There might be a grain of truth, and in fact,

(48:21):
whatever it is might be perfectly pertinent, but then it
might be. You know, it's all open to interpretation, and
and I just think that as you say, I think,
with everything as it is. I mean, I watched it
quite a bit of George Galloway. I quite like him
because he's he's very opinionated and he sort of says
things very much how they are, and even he at
one point mentioned Alien's actually though he's finally waking up

(48:44):
to AI It's dangers, which is quite comical. But now,
I mean, I've experienced it. I've messed around with chat
ept a few times already. I'm a writer, and it's
only natural that I was sort of, I suppose curious,
and it's frightening, you know, so literally talks to you.
I mean, it's you know, I had a conversation with
it in a sense where you know, I was trying

(49:06):
to write a poem, but I wanted it finished in
a particular way, and I wanted it done in this style.
And it did it and it was awful. So I said, no,
I want it done in this style with this and
I suddenly realized, you know that in a way, AI
can be an enemy, but it can be obviously in
a big way but the way all lullahs in is
a bit like with social media, web dates and all
these things sort of normalized things we thought were dead, weird.

(49:28):
Much easier to go down you pub and Paul than
go online, people would have said years ago. But everyone's
got used to it. No, everyone does web dating in
the same way. I think people just get used to
a concept. It doesn't matter how uncomfortable. If it's seen
as progress, they'll accept it. And I think also that's
another danger where we're going, where AI I think might
have to literally save us. That might be in a

(49:50):
position not too much save us, but it might seem
to save us because all people will say, oh, look,
it's cured all these diseases, it's helped us trace alien life,
it's it's done all these things that might seem good
at first, but the reality will kick in that you know,
there's no point really, you know, now we're all diseased
for it. It's a bit like the Morlocks and the

(50:11):
Ellowine is it in War of the Worlds? You know,
see my great grandfather met the writer, which is amazing
to think, but you know, he I think had it
completely right. I think you know in that the morlocks.
I mean, they're the people that the unfortunates, I mean
society record child Obviously nobody talks about it. We have
prime ministers been voted in on TMS. You know, you know,

(50:35):
people tend to put their head in the sound a bit,
and I certainly think so ind mentionally political, but I
certainly think that just the way the way things are
heading is. It's exciting, but it's kind of frustrating too,
because you feel that the AI will suck people in,
particularly younger people, into thinking it's going to solve all
these things, like everyone, as I say, socially uses it

(50:57):
for dating because it's so much quicker and all this,
but not necess But I think when it actually turns
around and Bite says by collectively deleting this as a species,
or coming to a point where those with money are
are literally like robo cop they're half technology and all
the people with no money or organic normal people, but
they can't get jobs, they can't get anywhere because they

(51:18):
can't do anything because they're not one million times more
advanced like the rich people are because they've all had
AI upgrades. Whether we're going to have some sort of
crazy world like that, I think if things go that
nasty on the planet, which you know, we're halfway there anyway,
I definitely think, you know, either God usus aliens. I
think from all perspective, maybe they're the same thing, you know,

(51:41):
as von Danik can One said, God drives the flyers also.
But whichever way you're coming at it with, you do feel,
you know, theoretically we're all coming to a crisis. Whether
you call it end times, whether it will happen in
the next two months, two years, you know, two decades,
that's another thing. You know, it's very difficult to know

(52:01):
how and when. Be it the AI you know, apocalypse,
if that's what it is, or revolution and the disclosure,
or they're kind of concurrent of alien life. You're kind
of got the two things at the same time. It's
almost like a race. Maybe that's why there's so many
wacky views at the moment. There's a possibility of a
kind of staged alien thing, which I suppose could happen

(52:24):
if certain species want to make themselves available to humanity
on a peaceful mission or in a peaceful way. And
obviously the powers that be are like, we don't want
that happening, because you know that might bring global peace,
so we better stage a fake alien invasion. I mean
that could be that that sort of scenario. And anyone

(52:45):
that this is going to think I'm barking, But that's fine.
You know, I'm a writer. You know I've got artistic license.
But you know it might sound like a flight of fantasy.
But you know, these fantasy can become fact, and I
genuinely believe some of these scenarios could play out. It
could be most extraordinary period in human history because we've

(53:05):
never created anything on purpose. I mean, it's so stupid. Agree,
it's more intelligent than us. So for that self defeating
act to happen, I mean, I hope there's a few
aliens with a sense of humor out there. I mean,
it really is. The geek has inherited the earth. I mean,
if you're old enough to remember, you know how goth music,
how we used to sort of laugh at the geeks
on the computers. You know, it's that lot that took over.

(53:29):
You know, it's like so but yeah, it's you've got
to laugh. Oh you go crazy. Really, but it's a
fascinating period in history that I will say.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Certainly, I think I first heard it from It was
Werner von Braun from NASA. I think he had mentioned
about a fake alien invasion. It was a student here,
as he told and then she I think she came
out in one of the press conferences several years ago saying,
you know, this is what von Braun had said. And
he said that you know, you always need fear, and

(54:00):
there's all these things which will happen based around fear.
You know, we've seen it, you know, decades now. There's
always something to fear. And he did say that there.
I can't remember if an asteroid would be first aud
the fake AID invasion would be before it, but he
did outline that. I think back in the seventies he
had mentioned mentioned stuff like that. But that's again, that's

(54:21):
been something which has been around for a while.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Wow, that's undertooing. I didn't know that. Actually, I had
no idea that that ideas be placed. That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
If you have a look on the Stephen Greer press
conference from two thousand and one, now, there was a
NASA employee that worked with him. I can't remember a name,
but I should do because I'm actually friends were on Facebook,
and she came out and said, you know, this is
what he had you know, he had told me it
was all to do with when NASA was air brushing
out objects, you know, in pictures and then really then

(54:53):
releasing them to the public. But yeah, no, she had
mentioned that that was a two thousand and one press
conference with Stephen Greer the very first Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, isn't he the chap? Yeah, because I think I've
seen some of that footage. I think he's the chap
that says you can manifest the UFO or something if
you like, it's like praying. Really, he has a belief
that teleopathically, and I kind of believe in that only
because when I had my viewing in where studige, I've
been listening to so many you know, I don't explained

(55:21):
what my life I was at the time, but I was.
I was living quiet, you know, I'm working from homes,
so I was kind of for a couple of months,
very much maybe in a bit of a world of
my own. But it was as a result I'd very
much normalized the subject. So it's almost as normal as
me to listen to a UFO podcast of the morning.
I'd stick it on the said of the news. I've
got very kind of obsessed with it for that little
period that I will say, and it's almost made me

(55:42):
wonder if you can because I'm sure it's him that said,
or maybe it's someone similar name that you can sort
of wish for it all happen because that's what happened
when it happened in West Stullige. Maybe, But yeah, I've
seen some footage, and yeah, I mean it's a bit confusing,
isn't it, because people will have to struggle enough with
the concept there being aliens and that it's not a
sci fi and that it's not fantasy. And obviously now

(56:06):
with everything you know, with certain things the last couple
of years, where there's been a media story, so to speak,
everyone's believed about something on a massive level where all
our lives were massively disrupted and people sort of went
along with it. Then it's plausible on one side to
imagine people complying with Traconian lords staying indoors, et cetera,

(56:26):
for some sort of alien invasion. But on the other side,
with all the questioning that's a little bit more prevalent
now even amongst the most people that believe everything the
news says, with a lot of the stuff that's come
out recently. You know, obviously people are also a bit
more questioning, so we'll have to see how it plays out.
I mean, people might question a fake invasion that might

(56:49):
help people to communicate better with real alien life in
terms of you know, I mean, these are almost all
light sci fi plots because really rather than reality. But
we know there's more than a fifty percent chance that
these could all be realities. But what I was going
to say is that you can imagine that it could
be a situation where as I say, et alien might

(57:11):
decide to help us to not fight the AI, but
somehow work with it to appease it. If AI was
to decide in future like the teacher in the Wall
Pink Floor, you know, a nasty sort of authoritarian figures
shake its finger and delete us forever. But like the
space bypass in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Beginning with the

(57:31):
vogue on Captain. You know, hopefully that's not what the
aliens are going to be like to us, But I
think it's more likely to be the AI that we'll
do something like that. But yeah, it's to say it's
it's mind blowing, really fascinating, but mind blowing.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Yeah, you should always definitely question when someone is telling
you something. On a side note, you know, if any
sporting celebrities or moves it celebrities trying to give you
any health advice, I look at it as if safe
I want to get half advice by someone that chases
a ball, I will ask my dog.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Yeah, well you probably can trust your dog a lot
more than people, for sure. Yeah, I mean the animal kingdom.
Dogs are wonderful, you know. You know, I read somewhere
I don't know where it was. It was one of
one of the I think it was Coast to coast.
I was reminded me of dogs a bit dolphins, And
that's bizarre theory that dolphins might be connected somehow with

(58:23):
aliens or alien and owls as well, so quite extraordinary things,
owls and dolphins. I don't know about the connections there,
but be fascinating to know. But but yeah, I just think,
like we were saying earlier with you know, it's just
started all my life as a child, the whole area
of like when I remember seeing the film First Men
on the Moon when I was a child, which is

(58:44):
like a proto steampunk kind of film, really major years ago.
It was a wonderful film, but a lot of the
when my old mum told me about, you know, meeting
someone who genuinely believed in aliens on the Moon, that
was it. You know, I was always my mind was well,
I was always, as I say, sucked in and as
I say, you know, my meager attempts at right and

(59:05):
said doing steampunk myself or trying to attempt to it.
But when I actually got sacked into the real when
you get sucked into the real thing, there's a real
feeling you want to get out there. And I've very
nearly gone to a few UFO conferences. I'd love to
and that there's a few. I know that there's one
in Glastonbury occasionally and not that far from me, but

(59:27):
so I would love to go. I've never actually got
to a UFO conference, which is a major. This is
my nearest to it.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
The South of England definitely need more UFO conferences.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
I was in talk with someone a while ago about
maybe bringing do you used to do with the film
festival in Gloucestershire and I said to him, you know
what this place really needs is is you know, like
a conference like a UFO and a paranormal conference exactly,
you know something like that. Now, I know you didn't
come on to promote your book, but do you want
to tell us about your book?

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Well, I'm going to say I used to go to
the Spiritualists Association a little bit years ago and they
used to be in Barkley Square in London and they
were that they. I only mentioned that as it reminds
me a little bit of the communal field of going
to see it. To a UFO event must be similar
where you're meeting people all into things that were unusual.
But yeah, no I wrote a few of them. It's

(01:00:17):
nice of you to mention it. Yeah, as I say,
you can cut out, and you mentioned if you want,
but as you've asked me about it's nice the rule Yeah,
the rule books. I might go back to doing a third.
I've done a few excerpts on YouTube, actually me reading
reading episodes because as a soa, I'm a musician, but
I love writing and at this was about ten years
ago I wrote, and there'd never been any books written

(01:00:39):
since Victorian times when ball Were Litton Edward Bull Were
Litton wrote his tone about real the coming of the
coming race, that that's actually, I think either Hitler and
his cohorts read that and were influenced by it because
of the connections with Esoteric and the whole that part

(01:00:59):
of the world, basically Germanic, the whole kind of tribal
thing of Norse legend and everything. I think the whole
Norse connection, Nordic Norse thing is what sut them in
on a racial level. Perhaps I don't know. This idea
was I think based in a real you know, fable,
a real kind of a real concept going back many

(01:01:19):
thousands of years. And anyway, he kind of mythologized it
in his book, and I'd heard about this, and I
realized it's not really been a sort of a sci
fi kind of done in the sort of DaVinci code
way about about the whole connection between Nazis in UFOs.
Even though you obviously got Indiana Jones and all that
which's thrivillers and fun, there hadn't been a sort of

(01:01:43):
more serious take where it's sort of more of a
kind of sort of thriller. So that's kind of where
I came at it with the angler I came with,
and it was very much, as I say, a kind
of DaVinci code kind of pop boiler kind of thing
where I was just writing it for fun. Really. I
put it out there and I've got it on an
indie publish of a while called Dragon, and it was
fun at a few of copies. But at the end

(01:02:04):
of the day, I may needed it for fun really
because the subject hipped me and I was ill at
the time, and it was a good way of getting out,
getting getting out of something artistic out there. But I did.
I think the best thing about it was with you know,
some pretty good reviews. But I think the best thing
about it was was getting the phone call from Anthony J. Hilda.
I don't know how he got hold of a copy,
but he called me out of the blue, and that

(01:02:26):
was that was amazing, really talking to him, and that
was kind of the best thing. I might go I
might go back to it in future and write, write
a bit more about it and expand the concept. But yeah,
it's fun because there hadn't really. There's a few books
have come up since mine, actually, but mine was the
first that actually looked at those specific concepts of, as

(01:02:47):
I say, the whole kind of Nazi connection with aliens
and rill and this power source and the supernatural, and
it was it was fun to write. As a result.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
The whole connection with occultism and the NATS is, you know,
it was very deep rooted. It was that it was
the real society, wasn't that. That's right, the real society.
There's always been this very deep rude connection with that,
especially UFOs. Interesting. What I do is I'll put the
link below in the description, so if people want to
head it's the real Codex. Is that right?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yeah, there's the Amazon shop for it. I don't really,
I haven't really not. It's not that I've retired as
an author. I still write poetry, songs and might in
a comedy book at a minute. But I might return
to real but I kind of neglected it. I've neglected
it a bit. It's quite a bit. There's actually a
YouTube introduction to it. Might be a good thing to include.

(01:03:37):
It'd be great for me to reconnect with the subject
again and get strongly involved with it if I can
in the next year, because I do think that it's
so important to say this period we're out for all
of us, really, and we'll see how things play out
and the wider society. It's very very interesting. I think
the key is really that the whole disclosure movement is

(01:03:59):
how it's gonna happen. I think we're all curious simply
because there's so many ways it could happen, whether it's
a fake thing or you know, whether it will come
through the conventional media. Because there was a silly weather
balloon stuff with the Chinese weather balloon recently and everything,
and obviously that got on the BBC and they made
a joke out of it. Oh it's not alien's exclamation mark.

(01:04:21):
So we're still bizarrely in that sort of isn't it
funny territory, even in twenty twenty three, which when you
think all the things we've been talking about, it seems
quite bizarre. But that's the conventional media for you. They're
very clever at patronizing and fooling, you know, the most
intelligent people out there, Like you were saying earlier, Professor's,

(01:04:42):
I mon't say politicism. It's clever at avoiding doing anything
any good and getting paid for it's brilliant. I mean, wow,
goodness me. I mean, with everything, one wonders how it's
all going to put itself out because everything is so intricate,
with all the systems and the intelligent divine design. I
suppose that we called where do you call it? Other
nature or God's design. It's it's so intricate and clever.

(01:05:04):
You look at bees and the wonderful work they do,
and how you know their their work, how everything they
do helps us our health honey, how wonderful healing substance
that is. And royal jelly of course, though of course
roll Dalad fun with that one, with that wonderful story
years ago in tells the unexpected. But it's certainly, you know,
even with something like that, just it's simple, such as

(01:05:26):
the times were in one wonders how insect life everything
will be affected. It's like the butterfly effect with time travel.
If for the you know, if truly things are going
to start changing in the next couple of years, not
just in a workforce, but across you know, the whole
strata of humanity because of AI. It's kind of one.
One wonders how it affect the animal kingdom, everything, But
I guess we'll just have to wait and see again. Now,

(01:05:47):
that's one thing that is quite extraordinary. Shows like The
Invaders or The Prisoner with Patrick McGowan, they seem to
tap into that. Those are two particular shows, and say
the other one's Utopia from about ten years ago, which
got banned, which is an extraordinary show where there's sections
where they talk about vaccines which are quite bizarre, which
very much fit recent events. And I suppose Outer Limits

(01:06:10):
Twilight Zone. But there's a few shows that evoke what
we're going through.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
But I am not a number. I am a free man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Oh yeah, because well when with the survivors, they're all
amongst this, of course they've just got a strange little
finger and people might laugh. But with a lot of
these ideas which as I say, it sounded so wacky
to me ten years ago. As I say, when I
spoke to Hilda, those are the sorts of things he
was on about. And to be honest, there's a lot.
It was even I'm sure there was some sort of government,

(01:06:38):
someone in government in US government in the last couple
of years. It wasn't even on the news said that
there was possibly, you know, alien life and all this,
and so it's really fascinating to think, you know that
there's so many, so many angles to it, you know,
it really is. And I think thing as I said,
I think it's just having an open mind and not laughing.

(01:06:58):
And so you know you've been watching too much. Maybe
you need to put your box set of the Invaders away,
you know, in the day. These things are real, you know.
And though as I say, life art people can say, well,
you know, they say art can imitate life, and genuinely
a lot of you follogists. I've listened to a lot
of debates recently, and there is quite a belief amongst

(01:07:20):
some that there are you know, you do walk amongst us.
As I said earlier, there's even possibility, if it's not
you know, religiously complete profanity, to say that we ourselves
are alien life to begin with at least. So there's
lots of lots of ways of looking at it. But
as I said, so much today we've had such a
fascinating chat and I hope I haven't blitched you with

(01:07:43):
too much verbal diarrhea bit. But it really has been interesting, Jane.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
It's been wonderful talking to you, Ben.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Just wonderful to have been on and you know, I
really appreciate you giving me the time. And as I said,
I've talked quite a lot. I've probably repeated myself a
few times. Hopefully it will be fun to some of
the listeners, but no thanks ever so much than on
the show. Really, I just really enjoyed it, and it's
a wonderful thing that you're getting so many of these
calls in. And what it makes me think is that
people really, you know, it could be the mixture of

(01:08:12):
two things, isn't it. I mean people say, on one
side of the coin, well then there's more. The aliens
definitely argue that you're totally right. Things are reaching your head,
things are coming to a head. They're either coming or
it is going to be disclosed. And on the other side,
it's because people are desperate because of all the problems
in the world, because of everything we see the last
couple of years, economically and racial tensions, it's COVID, all

(01:08:33):
the things that have happened. People have lonely and they're
looking without religion, perhaps not doing the job it didn't
the past. People are looking for something to believe in.
So I suppose from you've got that and you've got that,
you've got the two different suspectives. I wouldn't say the
rational and irrational, because those of us who believe know
that you've UFOs aliens it's perfectly rational and real, you know.

(01:08:53):
As you probably tell her, I've been looking forward to
chatting about it for a while because I don't really
have any outlets for them as much amongst those I know,
I write about it a lot of my blog. Obviously,
more is fun than anything else. But it's just been
a nice opportunity to offload about it all, really, because
it's always fascinated me and you never know the best

(01:09:15):
might be yet to come.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Ben, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing that
for our.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Listeners, Brilliant. No, it's been great fun and who knows
how things will go in the future. I'll let you
know when and if I have any more sightings as well.
And yeah, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Keeping contact and keep us updated. All right, Ben, You
enjoyed the rest of your day and we'll speak.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Soon, Brilliant, Take care all the best.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Thanks a lot, take care Ben, Bye for now. That's
all for this episode. Keep updated and connect with the
show on x Facebook and Instagram. And if you have
an encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast,
you can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com,
or you can reach out to me via a contact
page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. A

(01:10:00):
big thank you to Ben for sharing tonight, and thank
you all for listening. I will be back next week.
Till then, stay safe and keep watching the skies. Goodbye,