Ep.254 A Knock At The Door (Throwback)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It'll do away five seventeen. Do you want to report
a UFO hang it in? We don't want to report
every thirty one? Do you wish to report the UFO old? Hey,
we want to one of those arias?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thirty one? Do you wish to find a report of.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Any kind of it? I wouldn't know what kind of reports.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Areas thirty one me neither there said one golf coct
if it was anybody else, uh above us to pass us?
Like thirty seconds ago you were sending one top of
golf negative, okay, OFFI the UFO. Yeah it's murder two
nine five, Yes, I passed over.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Out. I don't know what it was from at least
two three thousand feet above us.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
See, I passed right over the thought of ninety one
one guy you just called up three or four?

Speaker 1 (00:55):
They're after staying airplanes?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
He is? I where to God in an unidentify object?
Every liberty or call or calm on an unidentified flying object?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share their
experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter,
I would like to be on the show. You can
email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are you
all doing this week? I'm the counter and this is
the UFO Chronicles podcast. This episode we hear from James
from the West Midlands in the UK, and James will
be recounting his UFO sightings, paranormal experiences, and a visit
from the infamous Men in Black. He is also an

(02:08):
investigator for the Birmingham UFO group. James is up next.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
But first, if you enjoy the show and you would
like to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can
do this for as little as one dollar a month,
head on over to www dot patreon dot com forward
slash UFO Chronicles Podcast. You can also find a link
in a description of this episode below. Any help is

(02:34):
very much appreciated. Now on with the show.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Hello, James, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Very much for having me.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's great to have you on today. And you're calling
for West Midlands in the UK.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
That's correct.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Now, James, you have some UFO and paranormal experiences you're
going to be sharing with us. Would you like to
start at the beginning please, sir.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, certainly, well, thank you very much so let's let
us indeed begin. The very first experience I had was
a close encounter of sorts, and this was the fourteenth
November in nineteen ninety two. I was walking the dog
in the middle of Birmingham, so if you're outside of
the UK, Birmingham is the UK's second largest city. It

(03:34):
was a completely clear night, so you could see the
stars in the sky, and as I was walking the dog,
I looked up and I saw what appeared to be
a blue comet that was arching across the sky. Now
what was unusual was that it actually appeared to go
behind something, and as it went behind something, there was

(03:55):
just a brief outline of an object that looked at us,
I suppose in the same shape as as a rugby
ball or an American football. And I looked at that
and I thought, well, that was very strange. Because it
was very clear in the sky. You couldn't actually physically
see the object, but it was a case if you
knew there was something there because he went behind it.
I then chose to walk the dog back home. I'm

(04:20):
a keen astronomer, so when I got home. It's a
three story house we live in. I was on the
second floor. I opened up the windows to look at
the night sky, and when I looked at the night sky,
I could see in the distance there appeared to be
some flashing lights, and as I watched them over about
the next ten minutes, flashing lights became one light and

(04:43):
it began to get closer and closer. I was the
only person in the house at the time, and it
was a case of kept it going closer until the
object to me was hovering above a tree in the garden.
I was looking up at it made a note of
the time as well. There was a slight static charge

(05:05):
in the air as I was looking at this object.
It was silver with a slight orange hue underneath, which
will have been the lighting off the street lights. I
basically spoke out and said, I can't see what you are.
Could you show me something? And the object then responded

(05:26):
and rotated very slowly three hundred and sixty degrees back
to its original starting place, which I was particularly astonished by.
Before the object slowly and it wasn't making any noise.
There wasn't any humming or anything. It was just completely silent,
very very still. But our dog was very agitated and
was trying to get up the get up the stairs.

(05:48):
So as the object went over the house, I was
almost at a shell shocked. To my sister so happened
to be coming home at that time, and she came
running in saying, oh, my goodness, if you see this
object that's just gone over the house. So it was
very nice that basically there's someone else there that actually
saw it as well. So this is in a built

(06:09):
up area, you would expect everybody to have seen it.
So the next day I got three or four local
sort of newspapers and looking for reports, and of course
there was nothing there. Now at the time, I reported
the citing to the Birmingham Birmingham Observatory and they told

(06:29):
me basically that what I had seen was serious and
now was obviously as a keen astronomer, I was a
little bit crestfallen by that, but I didn't really know
how to respond, and so I kind of left it there. Now,
that in itself is an interesting experience, but it's not
necessarily anything that is above anybody else's experience. What happened

(06:53):
twelve years later is what really sparked my interests. So
I'm now in my early thirty I'm living in a
different part of Birmingham, and it's during the day. I
have my girlfriend in the house, who's now my wife,
and I get a knock on the door, and when
I opened the door, there is a man and a
woman in black, just dressed with a black trench coat

(07:15):
in wearing sort of black clothing. The gentleman was around
five eight five foot nine. He was in his late fifties.
He had a very sort of disheveled appearance to him.
And then the lady was immaculate. She was around six
foot She had blonde hair quite severely sort of tied back.

(07:36):
She was quite gaunt looking, but she had what you
suppose you'd call almost sort of Scandinavian sort of features.
That blonde hair, and the blue eyes were absolutely iridescent. Now,
so these two strangers at the door and they say,
mister Brody, we'd like to talk to you about your
UFO experience. And as ridiculous as this sounds, I said, yes, certainly,

(07:58):
coming in, and so vite two complete strangers into the
house and we sat down. Now, the lady had a
black holdall bag with them and she presented a folder.
Now in the folder, she said, right, mister Brodie, the
first thing that you saw, so referring to the comet,
did it look like this? And the first image that

(08:20):
she showed me wasn't just a picture of what I
had seen. It was as if you had actually taken
the picture through my own eyes, So it was it
was literally a psychic snapshot of what I had seen.
And then she showed me a second picture and then
a third picture, the final picture being the picture of

(08:40):
the actual object itself as it rotated, and it was
very much a case of it was again the same
as if the picture had been taken through my own eyes,
so almost like a super HD picture of the object.
And you know, I asked them, well, who are you
and they just nonchalantly said, oh, get to that in
a in a minute. So they asked me whether I'd

(09:01):
had any other experiences. They also were very interested in
whether I had any paranormal experience, and I talked a
little bit about when I was younger, I'd had a
little bit of It wasn't until I've left to university
that pretty much every house I've been in is has
some sort of paranormal elements to it. They also asked

(09:22):
whether I'd had any interference with electrical objects, and a
couple other sort of personal questions. Now, when you tell
this story to somebody, you often said, what, you just
let two strangers in the house, and my wife was
upstairs as well, but she didn't come downstairs. And when
they left, they literally just walked out and just walked

(09:43):
down the road before disappearing out of sights. And then
about five ten minutes later, it was almost as if
I'd had a fog across my brain, because suddenly there
was one hundred and one different questions I was asking,
and I was saying, why on earth did I let
these complete strangers into the house. Why is it they
were asking me this question? Who were they? And after that,

(10:06):
basically there was no sort of follow up conversation. I
haven't had anything since, but I just thought it was
a very very peculiar incident. I mean, typically when you
talk about men in black experience, certainly from you know,
from my sort of research. I mean, I've been researching
UFO and paranormal phenomena for about twenty five years now,
and you know, so you come across usually it's a

(10:27):
short period of time as an attempt to debunk and
all those sort of classic tropes. But this was just
purely just to sort of trying to find out more
about the experience, had I had anything else, and they
and then they left, and so that's what got me
thinking about there actually being a link between the UFO
experience and the paranormal experience. So from a paranormal experience,

(10:52):
there's a probably two instant ins that are worth mentioning.
So the first incident is that the house where we are,
there was another house about which we were renting about
fifteen years from where from where we were, and with
that particular house, it was a case of when we
were there we felt that there had been there was

(11:16):
a certain amount of activity in the house, so for example,
things would move occasionally you'd come in and the TV
would be just on static, very much like that sort
of Poulter sort of the experience. But there were sort
of two incidents from then. So a few years ago

(11:36):
there was a earthquake in Birmingham was actually the epicenter
was two miles from where we were living at the time,
and that it was only a sort of five point
two five point three on the Richter scale, but for
the UK that's very big, and myself and my wife.
We were sat on our bed and in the middle
of the room suddenly a orb appeared. And when I

(11:58):
say an orb, it's as if he had blown a
bubble using that classic sort of piece of plastic into
so Fair liquids, and his bubble just appeared in the
middle of the room and kind of floated around. And
I said to my I, can you actually see this?
And she said, yes, yes I can, and it then
sort of floated out of the out of the window,

(12:20):
and then two hours later we had an earthquake and
then an aftershock. Now I understand that obviously you have
this sort of phenomenon of earth lights, and typically animals
will pick up on a release of sort of energy
prior to a to an earthquake, so that was quite interesting.
In that house, we also had a puppy that was

(12:41):
with us throwingly a couple of months because unfortunately it
had a conchental heart defect and has to be put down,
which was very distressing for us. But for about for
about three weeks afterwards, we actually heard him and indeed
see you know, saw him around the house. So when
you say you saw something, what did you actually see?
The sort of clearest indicate, and I was looking down

(13:04):
the corridor and I saw what could only be described
as a as an outline of our dog. And what
he did was he came in, came into the room,
sat on the bed, and basically where the bed was,
it's sort of depressed. So it was a case if
you could actually see that that basically there was something
sat on the bed. And so there was all these

(13:27):
different activities that were going on, and so I started
to take pictures of the of various things that was
going on, and I had the original incarnation of my
current websites, and by pure fluke, one time fourteen times
actually picks up on the website, and so I went
from getting maybe one or two views a day to

(13:48):
you know, thousands of views in a day. And this
kind of led to the Discovery Channel getting in touch
with us and ask and this was prior to a
time when these sort of programs were prevalent, and I
was asked basically whether we'd like to do something, and
at that time we felt that the stigma was too
big that we didn't want to pursue because they were

(14:10):
offering a considerable amount of money at the time as well,
and we've kind of moved out of that house soon
soon after. Now, the most interesting case from paranormal experiences
is in our previous house. So my wife was heavily
pregnant with our first first show. Our daughter was due
to be born the end of January. It was about

(14:31):
a week before Christmas, and myself and my wife were
sat in our front room. My wife sat down next
to me, and then suddenly around myself. It's a case
of it went very very cold, to the extent that
you could see my breath. Now, I was in a
paranormal research group at the time. I had things like
an EMF meter. I had four or five different meters

(14:54):
around vibration, humidity, things like that. We were looking for
a draft in the house, so I was obviously checking
all the windows, checking the doors. Now, the interesting thing
about this was was that it was actually purely focused
on myself. So wherever I was it was absolutely freezing.
But bomb a wife absolutely normal temperature, So even when

(15:17):
I sat down next to her, it was freezing purely
around myself. My wife was completely untouched. And what then
happened was as we sat down on the sofa, thinking
this is very strange, a small brilliant white light appeared
in the corner of the room, and it started to
get bigger and bigger until it was about the size

(15:40):
of a fifty pence piece, so you know, so like,
you know, a couple of inches in size. Basically, what
happened then was it kind of it disappeared. It kind
of just fizzed out of existence. Now, when it fizzed
out of existence, what happened was every single device with
any four of charge had been zapped. So that meant cameras,

(16:04):
that meant laptops, that meant you know, you know, mobile phones.
Everything lost its charge in the room. And that was obviously,
you know, quite quite a sort of a specific experience there,
and so we said everything lost it lost its charge.
So I was speaking to a couple of colleagues in
the paranormal group and they the first thing they said

(16:25):
to me, James, is is is your wife okay? And
I said, well, yes, why? And I said, well, in
their experience, anything that makes that much effort to try
and get into the atmosphere, typically there's a war the
warning associated with it. But you know, we kind of
brushed it off at the time. And then New Year's Eve,
my wife starts complaining of severe stomach cramps and basically

(16:51):
I take my wife to hospital. She's very distressed, and
basically we had to have an emergency cesarians. It turned
out that my wife and daughter there was a detachmental center,
which was pretty much fatal to both of them. And
it was very much a case of they, you know,
our daughter was born through emergency cesarean, and both my

(17:12):
wife and daughter were then in hospital for about a
month and a half afterwards. I mean, they don't remember
that time, but you know, they were both incredibly poorly. Now,
what you could do on one in one sent you say, well,
that was just coincidence, which absolutely it could be, or
you could also suggest that maybe there was indeed some
sort of link there and there was potentially some sort

(17:33):
of warning. So with that sort of thing, it's a
case of, you know, you try and remain as objective
as possible, but you can't help feel that it's an
interesting coincidence that you know that my wife was pregnant,
you know, she was ill that we're not that we
knew at the time, and there was that sort of
it felt as if that contact was made. So that's

(17:56):
very much the sort of beginning of the journey, which
is those are my sort of personal experiences as to
both the paranormal phenomenon and the UFO phenomenon. And so
I started to research that link between the two, and
over the years it's a case of we've come to
a number of sort of conclusions and number of maybe insights,

(18:20):
and I am now indeed working on a hypothesis that
the two are linked. So when you're looking to research
this sort of thing, I was trying to understand, you know,
the UFO and the paranormal communities are very sort of tribal,
almost disparate groups. So even though there's a lot of
linkage between the two, there are actually very much, very

(18:43):
different areas. And whereas you do get some crossover, by
and large, the UFO community see what they're doing as
far more scientific and the paranormal is seen as far
more wu And that's the term I really don't like
very much, but that is a term that is that
actually use a lot. So I was thinking, ll, what
can I use as a starting point to understand is

(19:04):
there a link between it? And that's when I started
reading about Nicholas Tesla. Nicola Tesla is pretty much the
godfather of modern sort of technology. There is a number
of inventions that he created, but there's also something that
he said which I found very striking, which is to
understand the universe, you need to think of it in
the terms of electricity, sort of vibration and frequency. So sorry,

(19:31):
energy frequency and vibration. And I thought, okay, so energy,
frequency and vibration. That's a that's a great starting point
to understand whether there's any link between that. And then
I was looking at modern physics to try and understand, right, well,
what do we see as what are the building blocks
of the universe. And one of the great starting points

(19:55):
is looking at things like M theory. So M theory
basically said is that when you get down to a
sub atomic level, when you get even smaller than that,
essentially everything comes down to sort of filaments of energy,
and those filaments of energy actually have a frequency to them.

(20:16):
And so again this very much builds on that initial
sort of almost like throwaway comment by Tesla that you know,
everything has energy, everything has frequency to it, and so
it's a case of thinking, right, okay, so we have
so we know that these different building blocks. And then
when I looked into frequency itself. Realize that actually we're

(20:36):
completely governed by frequency. Everything that we see, everything that
we touch, even our brain waves have a specific frequency
to them. So for example, if you're looking at humans,
the human brain works on a frequency between seven and
twelve hertz, and that's basically when you've relaxed, your eyes
are closed. It's the pre and your post sleep. But

(20:59):
you've got things that your brain operates between four and
seven hurts when you're dreaming, you're in a deep meditation set.
But also then when you've got active consciousness, that's between
fifteen twenty four hurts. And then when you've got that
sort of fight or flight, then your brain is operating
between twenty four and thirty five hurts. So that tells
us that our brains all operates a sort of frequency range,

(21:24):
and that's part of what governs us. But also the
human body is they're designed to pick up different sort
of experiences and that's you know, through your different senses.
That's what helps you to They're like your body's sensors
to pick up around the world's around you. And there's
a case of thinking, right, so this is the brain

(21:45):
this order, but the brain doesn't necessarily actually physically see something.
What it does is is it interprets, And it's about, well,
if it interprets, it's a case of what is it interpreting?
Is it something that is is there something else there
that is basically working alongside the brain, And that's when

(22:07):
I had the light bulb moment about consciousness. Now, consciousness
is again it's an area of investigation. A lot of
the time it is in philosophy about consciousness, but there
is also sort of scientific studies into consciousness trying to
have a sort of quantifiable, sort of definition of consciousness.

(22:30):
And it's a case of the consciousness there are a
couple of definitions. So the first definition is about you
know that the experience that is being greater than the
sort of some of its parts, which seems that you know,
to be honest with that seems quite sort of wishy
washy to me. But it's a case of then trying

(22:50):
to think, well, what other sort of definitions can we have,
And you know, you can talk about it in the
terms of a transfer of energy between two systems, and
that's when you start looking at things like the integrated
information theory of consciousness. So what that basically does is

(23:10):
it says that the nature and source of consciousness. So
initially it was proposed by Giolicioni, and what he said
is that it claims that consciousness is identical to a
certain kind of information, the realization of which requires physical,
not merely functional integration, and which can be measured mathematically
according to the pimetric, so Fi spelt pH i and

(23:34):
what the fimetric is. Now, I'm not a scientist. This
is literally just layperson's sort of research. So it may
find that you're that some of your listeners will have
a far better understanding. You may be able to correct me.
But as I said, this is a working hypothesis. So
it's a case of typically at the five scale, what
we have is we have the human brain, because that is,

(23:55):
as far as you know, the most sort of conscious
It's our sort of marker. And for argument's sake, Will
says it has a score one hundred. As you get
lower through different sort of species. So over eam point
you know you're going you're going through two mammals, and
then fish and then insects, et cetera, et cetera. That
score goes lower and lower down the down the scale.

(24:17):
Now what you find is is that when you get
to a sub atomic level, then what we find is
that actually we have a score that is lower than one,
but most importantly it's higher than zero. So well what
does that mean? So what that actually means is and
what that hints is is that actually the sort of

(24:38):
universe as we know it has a form of consciousness
to it. And it's a case, well what do you
mean by that? Well, maybe it's better to say there
is a form of interconnectivity and that there is again
going back to Tesla, he described the ether as that

(24:59):
sort of of almost sort of astral plane. And when
again when using terms of astral plane, these are sort
of terms that are put under wu as it were,
but actually maybe we need to think about this in
different terms that actually we say that there is a
realm of a sort of energy where there is a
constant sort of sharing of information. And so actually what

(25:23):
happens is our consciousness is potentially part of that that
we are constantly sort of experiencing. So our brain is
collecting all of this information, but our consciousness is actually
what makes sense of it and is what actually is
sharing it to potentially a form of Well, everyone likes

(25:45):
using the term the matrix, but it's a sort of
a construct where information is shared. And this is very
much so again, consciousness is something that is this sort
of nebulous term that we use, but it is actually
something that we know is there, you know, and is
there towards the scientific community. There's not a lot of
research into it, but we know it's there as as

(26:08):
as a presence. So it's a case of how do
we measure that, how does how does that interact? How
does that work for us practically? And it's a case
of when you try and explain it, then you look
at the four sort of natural laws of you know, space, time,
and then the nuclear in the large and nuclear in

(26:29):
the small. If you can't explain it within those four
sort of forces of nature, then it's a case of
maybe there is a fifth force of nature that we
don't know about now. When you look at things like
the sort of cern in Switzerland and all the sort
of the experimentation it's doing, there is very much about
they've already said that. They said that they hinting that

(26:51):
maybe there is a fifth or even sixth forces of
nature that at the minute we're not actually aware of.
But then also there's a challenge about with consciousness is
a case of we're all made up of electrons and
you know, and various other subatomic particles. We all know
it's there, but what is it that basically gives one
of those particles consciousness? What is it that gives a

(27:12):
collection of those consciousness? So let's take a step back,
and so I've talked a little bit about consciousness there
and why is it important, and also mentioned frequency. So
let me give you a really good analogy. If you
look on YouTube and look for a experiment about resonance.
What residence is is that you have two tuning forks,

(27:33):
and the second tuning fork has a ping pong ball
attached to it. And what happens is is you hit
the first tuning fork and then the second tuning fork
will ring without you actually hitting it, and then the
pingbong ball will move around, and that represents so I
guess you'd say, the transfer of information. But the reason

(27:54):
why the second tuning fork rings is because it is
resonated with the sound that's been generated from the first one,
and then when the two connect, there is that transfer
of information. And so that's the key point. A transfer
of information between two information systems. So in this analogy,
it's actually consciousness that is constantly hitting that first note,

(28:18):
and then what happens is it basically sees what is
it that resonates with it, and there's that transfer of information.
So that resonance could be the frequency of experience around us,
it could be around physical touch, but there is that
resonance between us and that's what gives you that transfer
of information. Now, then again we ask ourselves what is

(28:39):
the relevance of this. So again, if we're looking at
both the UFO and paranormal experience, then one of the
sort of common themes that's around is that maybe UFOs
especially are actually multi dimensional. So we'm talking about multidimensional.
What does that actually mean. So in our dimension we
are three dimensional beings, and it's a case of, you know,

(29:03):
we have our three levels of coordinates, but in the
fourth dimension, this is something that specifically governs around time,
and it means that basically coordinates as we know them
don't exist. Everything is instantaneous. And when you then compare
that to say a lot of UFO abduction theory, then

(29:25):
it's a case of people often talk about being spoken
to telepathically or the transported from point A to point B. Now,
that is all perfectly normal if you were actually thinking
about things within the fourth dimension, because as we know,
things are basically instantaneous. There are no sound waves, because
there's no sort of start point, there's no end point. Indeed,

(29:47):
if we would look at ourselves in the fourth dimension,
what we would see is so imagine that you were
looking at me now and I'm sat in the seat.
What you would see is every version of myself coexisting
on that chair from birth through to death. That would
be my existence in the fourth dimension. But as a
three dimensional being, we can't actually see that coexistence. So again,

(30:11):
another analogy for you is that imagine that you are
watching somebody on the TV screen. Now, that person that
you're watching, you know that they are three D because
it's a case of you know, you look at the
world around you see in three D. However, when you're
seeing an image, you're actually only seeing a two D
image because that's the medium that you're able to see
that image in. So what this essentially means is is

(30:34):
that actually we are living in a multi dimensional world. However,
we are limited by what we can see because we
are a three dimensional being it's our brain works linear,
and so we're not able to understand, I'm not able
to view potentially what the fourth dimension and what those
upper sort of dimensions look like. So what that means

(30:57):
is to me is that again when we're looking at
how objects are able to move potentially great, great distance
across the universe, because as we know that reality is
that we haven't been able to travel faster than light.
And if you leave in Einstein, he tells you that
basically you can't travel faster than the speed light. So
if you can't travel faster than the speed light, or

(31:20):
how can you how can you get round that? So
one of those would be to be able to fold
space and time or whether you're multi dimensional. Then again,
the idea of coordinates as we as we know it
doesn't actually exist. So it means that everything is instantaneous,
and so you would in theory you would be able
to move great distances in short times. And so from

(31:43):
the UFO perspective, and it would suggests that actually there
is an element of multi dimensionalism there. It means that
we have access to, you know, to technology that basically
is way beyond our comprehension and it's about you know, understanding, well,
what what does out of our comprehension mean?

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Speaker 1 (33:36):
Now, if you also look at the sort of paranormal
elements of things again and look at again looking at
that principle the fourth dimension and looking at a snapshot
of things, then in this case, maybe the paranormal is
actually what we're doing is we're getting an impression of
a fourth dimension image into our world. So maybe it's

(33:56):
a case of there is a perception by some people
of the fourth dimension or a sliver of that of
that fourth dimension. And so it's a case of you
might find that when you get you know, audio sort
of visual phenomena, then it's about basically you are getting
a bleed, as it were, from another dimension. And it's

(34:17):
a case of you are you are seeing something that
is outside of our normal sort of range of vision.
For example, if you may see somebody in a room,
it might be a case of what you have got
is an impression. So remember when we go back to
seeing yourself coexisting one point in time, maybe you are
actually seeing a slither of somebody's coexistence at that particular

(34:39):
point in time. So you are looking at a fourth
dimensional object, or you're looking through that TV screen, and
what you're only able to do is interpret what you
see through the medium that you're able to understand. And
so that's why I believe that basically both the UFO
and the paranormal phenomena are in are in some way linked,

(35:01):
because I believe that actually what we're doing is we're
looking at things outside of our sort of perception, outside
of our range knowledge. And what this means is is
that our consciousness, our brain is trying to make something
that it can recognize. And this is why Also it
means that you are essentially the sum of your experience.

(35:23):
You are the sum of your programming, which means why
two people can look at an object and maybe see
something very different, because it will be how their own perception,
how their own reality, how that sort of represents what
they are seeing. And so again we're looking about reality.
Then that's again is a really interesting time because it's

(35:44):
a case of what you're finding is is that we're
in a period of exploring not both the sort of
world around us, but within our sort of mind and
around physics as well. However, we are very much physics based.
And basically there's a gentleman called Robert Lanza, and he
is an advocate for biocentrism, and what that basically is

(36:06):
is about saying that's place in biology above both physics
and chemistry, because what he argues is is that basically
a lot of what we see, a lot of what
we experience, can't be explained through just through physics. So
for example, there's the slip hole experiment where basically you
are observing a light and it's a case of it's

(36:29):
when it's observed, then it's a case of you know,
you see that light and it switches forms both between
a sort of wave and a light. But the point
is it is the observer that that makes that change.
If you don't look at it, then it's one form,
but the minute you do look at it, it's another form.
And so this is suggesting that there is the term

(36:51):
of the observer is defining reality around us. And really
what it's saying is is that because the human brain
doesn't actually physically see anything, it only interprets. Then you
could argue to a certain degree that actually it is
the human brain and consciousness there is actually creating reality

(37:12):
around it, and without consciousness, then there is no existence.
It's a case of because it is only an interpretation,
everything that we see, everything that we experience, is an interpretation.
And there's basically people like David Chalmers and what he does.
He basically believes that this idea of panpsychism, and what

(37:35):
that is is that he believes that everything has consciousness,
Everything is being processed, everything is being linked so that
space and time are the tools for which the mind
puts reality together. But anytime a wave function deserved, it
collapses and the wave becomes goes back to a particle.
So there are elements of physics there that we don't

(37:57):
actually understand. But if we take away that bias of
physics and start talking about how we are creating reality
around us, then we are actually able to get around
some of these sort of sort of challenges. And so
consciousness for me is something that plays a far bigger

(38:18):
part in our world than we yet understand, certainly outside
of out of physics, but it is very much seen
as being part of the wo which basically gives it
a massive disservice because I think it is something that
needs to be investigated. I think from our own sort
of experience and looking at going back to that Fie model,
we understand that there is some level of interconnectivity. And

(38:43):
whether you decide to interpret that as us being part
of a simulation, that is one possible solution. You could
say that it's proof that there is omnipotence, and that
if you follow a particular religion then you could so actually,
this is a way potentially of kind of explaining it's
using modeling. All of these are interesting points. I mean, personally,

(39:05):
I believe that there is some level of interconnectivity. There
is some sort of infinite mass, as it were, that
is contained within our particular dimension, and maybe we need
to look at our dimensions rather than thinking of it
as this some sort of inanimate object that maybe actually
it's part of some sort of network. The way I

(39:27):
look at it is our level of understanding. It's a
case of currently we know that there's this giant kind
of network, and from our level of understanding, we haven't
even been given basic user access yet. However, there are
more advanced civilizations out there that basically have got the
ADMIN access and so what this essentially means is that
you know that they are able to access all the

(39:48):
information that on their network and they're able to sort
of profit from that information. But again, a lot of
the universe around us is all about that ex experience,
that's sharing of experience. And when you talk to some
of the sort of big names in euthology, especially at

(40:10):
the minutes they talk about when they've spoken to the
sort of ciing government, and this is going to sound
quite out there admittedly, is that one of the thoughts
about the sort of human existence itself is that actually
we are containers for souls. Now, again this sounds incredibly woo.
I don't know my feelings on that, but the saying

(40:31):
that essentially what is happening is that if we are,
if containers for souls, then what consciousness is doing is
basically feeding your soul with experience, with information and that
is in some way shared to a greater, a greater
sort of network. Like I said, personally, I don't know
how I feel about that. I think what I have

(40:52):
found through my years of experience is that some of
the wilder things that was thinking of twenty five years
ago is actually now the norm, and some of what
is now not the norm is sounds even crazier. I
think part of this is going to be down to
the fact that people are going to need to find
their own personal truths. I think that there is an

(41:14):
argument that both euthology and sort of paranormal in some
ways is its own sort of religion, in that we
live in a more secular time and if you do
not follow any particular religion, I mean, I'm an atheist myself,
it's a case of then there is an argument that
you're looking for your own sort of creation story, your

(41:37):
own truth, which then the sort of UFO and paranormal
experience that kind of helps to fill that gap, so
to speak. So from all my experience, from my and
everything I've tried to research and look into, I do
very much feel that both UFO and paranormal experience are
the same thing. I think, from my personal opinion that

(42:00):
there is a strong multi dimensional elements to this. I
think that essentially there is a biome outside of what
we can see at the minute. So I believe that
there is the physical Earth, and then there is possibly
multiple planes of existence on the planets that we only

(42:21):
have small access to, and maybe we'll find through cern
that actually we are able to gain access to these
different biomes and understand things. I mean, a good way
of explaining it is is when you look up at
the night sky. You look up at the sky and
you see that basically it's dark, but basically there are

(42:41):
and there are a few stars there, whereas the reality
is actually the sky should be a blinding light of
stars because there are that many stars out there. However,
as we now know through physics, we have red shift,
which means that we have basically a spectral range of
light that we can see. So actually we're only seeing
a frack of what is out there. And again, if

(43:02):
you use that analogy to the Earth that we stand on,
there is only a fraction of what we can actually
physically see around us, and there is far far more
out there. So I guess that's my sort of downloads
as to sort of my personal experience and sort of
general thoughts.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, James, you have been busy.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yes, Like I said, I'm researching a book for a
book at the minute that I'm actively writing, and I'm
trying to put as much sort of science into it
as possible, because I think there's a lot of interpretation
which doesn't help. And it is very much trying to
look at what is out there as the minute. What

(43:46):
are some of the theories that are out there that
will help to and be very keen say this is
purely a hypothesis. So if somebody says to me, you
haven't understood something correctly, then I warmly welcome that because
it then means great, I can now work on a
slight different hypothesis, you know. And it's about science, isn't it.
You come up with a hypothesis and either it works

(44:06):
or it doesn't work. It doesn't work, you then come
up with the next hypothesis.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
That's exactly what science is. You know, You're forever learning,
absolutely and obviously you've been with the Birmingham UFO group
with Dave Hodrin. Yes, that's correct, wonderful, okay. And to
investigate these cases, it's always a good idea to look
for a link, you know, with the paranormal past experience,
and especially for a lot of my guess is experiences
go hand in hand.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Absolutely. I think in many ways it's almost as if
there is an tunement as it were so you know, again,
I'm a man of many analogies. It's you know, when
we're talking about frequency, we're thinking about radio waves, and
imagine basically that we're essentially a radio that is trying
to tune into a particular channel, and when you tune
into that particular channel, you then get signal. But you

(44:52):
also need to be aware that there are other radio
stations out there as well.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Exactly Okay, your visit from the Men in Black in
your case, the people in Black. Yes, it's not just
the USA have these accounts of the Men in Black.
We do get quite a bit in the UK, and
they always seem to follow the same pattern. Someone has
an experience, a UFO experience, then then they have these visitors.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think the thing when I
spoke to David about this, I think the challenge we've
got is why was there such a long sort of
difference in time. It's a case of why why wait
twelve years? I mean, there was no sort of specific date,
There was nothing sort of unique to the to when
they came out. For me, it was a purely random visit.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Did they identify themselves in the end, No.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
They didn't, and The stupid thing is I didn't ask
to me that. As I've thought about it many times,
it was almost as if I was sort of made compliance.
So when I say made compliant, I didn't feel under
the influence at all at the time. I was just like, oh,
you know, these are these two people I'll trust. I'll
let them into my house, which is ridiculous as it sounds,
sit down and have a and have a conversation.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
It's interesting, when did you say this was? When did
this happen?

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I was around about thirty thirty one, so this would
have been exa, I'm getting on for nineteen years ago.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
And of course we don't have the security cameras you
know that we did then.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Well, exactly exactly, and that's one of my great regrets.
I mean. And also though it was very interesting, is
that normally, if we have visitors in the house, my
wife would be downstairs. But she didn't come downstairs, and
she when I asked her about she said, well, it
just kind of felt it just I just kind of
thought it was something that was a conversation for you,
which was quite a strange thing in itself, because then

(46:34):
you begin to think, solf, well, was she sort of
influenced not to come downstairs because she was aware they
came in, but she didn't see them.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, that is interesting. It's anovery interesting point to it,
you know, regardless of what anyone says. I mean, obviously,
if we move away from the TV movie and staff, Yeah, yeah,
there are visits from these people, and they're obviously from
some kind of government agency. I wouldn't always go as
far as to say that they're aliens themselves, you know,

(47:02):
but they do certainly have some unusual characteristics, whether it's
in their mannerisms or you know what you just explained there,
the whole the whole bubble that surrounded the visit.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Well that's I was at UFO conference actually over the
weekend and I was sort of talking to a couple
of people about it, and I had a They've had
a great analogy for me, So imagine that that maybe
it's a case of, you know, whether you go down
the fact that they're alien roots, which you don't completely
agree with, but it's a case of you imagine that
basically they are bee keepers and we're and we and

(47:33):
we're bees, and what they're doing is they want to
check the hive, so they put in a sort of
a dummy bee, as it were, just to check the
you're going to investigate the hive, so you put something
in that looks and a bit looks like a bee.
You get, well, a look, it's yellow and black. It
looks like an insect. That should be close enough. And
sometimes I think to myself, well, you know when you
get the picture, when you get these you know, you

(47:55):
get these accounts of these strange looking people with strange mannerisms.
Maybe it's a case of they're looking at it and
go ah, that's close enough. They'll never notice the difference.
But obviously we're a lot more sentient than that, and
we're very aware of when something is off or not.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
I don't he a good way of looking at it.
And you know, when a beekeeper wants to take some
honey out from the high if he smokes the place,
and that would explain the fog, you know, the brain
fog near enough that where you both of you were
nice and relaxed. You know, you didn't really question it.
You just went along with everything that was happening.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, yeah, I like that. And again there was like
and when the funny thing is it is like when
they left. There was no sort of big black car
or anything. They're literally just got the bag and walk
down the road and then out of sight. That was it.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
And one thing, whether you've noticed it already, you know,
at the meetings, you'll probably find that you'd have individuals
that turn up there which you've even never seen them before,
or they seem completely out of place. Yes, these conferences,
even the smaller meetings, they do get visited from from
certain individuals.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Absolutely, it's always very very interesting. You know, we look
at and we know that there's various sort of reports
now and we're only aware of we're only aware of
some of them at the minute. You know, there's a
there's a I'm sure there's plenty of sort of groups
out there that we are unaware of. And I just
think it's now it's a case of we've become sort
of hyper aware of it and so we're more likely

(49:13):
to see it. So maybe actually the activity has an increase.
It's just the fact that we have means of being
able to know, to to be able to understand, to
be able to recognize when something isn't quite isn't quite off.
Because I guess one of the questions I'll always get
asked is by by someone who you know, someone who's skeptical.
They say, is right, well, we've got all this, got

(49:33):
all these cameras and stuff, right, why is it we
don't get a proper picture? Why don't we get something?
We say, well, there are some pictures out there. But
have you ever thought about this? Is that if UFOs
are multi dimensional, then if you're in a different dimension,
then it means that light could very much be operating
at a different frequency. So what we're actually seeing is

(49:55):
actually a three D interpretation of what a four D
object it is. However, when we're actually recording with an
object that records it a particular frequency, we are only
getting a sort of an inflection into into our reality.
So it's only seeing part of what it can see
because that's governed by the frequency of light that it
can actually recall from. Actually, maybe it's not actually recording

(50:17):
the actual object. It's only our impression or as you know,
our version of reality of that particular object.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
That's exactly it. We're always going to have a fakery,
you know, We're always going to have the misidentification. I
mean people people don't look up as much. So when
they do catch something, then you know, they record it
and they don't always know what it is, so we
always get that. But there's a lot of good videos
out there which, yeah, are a little bit blurry, so
it's quite easy to question question, you know, what's going on.

(50:45):
But there's it's a science you know, we don't yet understand.
We think we do, and we think we're getting closer,
but there's a lot of things we don't understand.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, absolutely. Now what I found very interesting was in
doing research, it turns out that sort of paranormal investigation
was actually regarded the science in the Victorian times, and
it was actually something that there was a lot of
investigation into it. But as we moved out of the
sort of Victorian era, it became out of vogue there

(51:13):
and it then almost became ridiculed. So if you actually
look back to the sort of Victorian times and just
before then, it was actually treated as a serious science,
and it's a shame we kind of lost that curiosity
as it were.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
You're absolutely right there, it's something which is constan on
going a difference between paranormal and ghost All that is
something which is is ground level, isn't it? You know?
It's something that you can't go to and experience. Where's UFO?
Is it more tends to be by the off chat,
you know, it always catches you off guard, you never
expect it. Really, yes, but the connections are there, you know.
The guess I have on which have had these UFO

(51:47):
and counters and sometimes if they just went off. Other
times they can be something which has happened for for
decades and decades, and then when you start asking questions
about their own life the paranormal, they would say, yeah,
this happened and my mum, my mom was psychic. You
know my dad, you just experienced this find it goes
back several generations.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think part of what we need
to try and do is not use sort of emotive
terms because if so, when I'm looking at a recess,
if somebody says they're psychic, then that immediately gets my
sort of backup in that it's a case of so
when you're saying psychic, what do you actually mean? There's
still different levels of what you can see. I mean,

(52:29):
certainly there's a case of if you are are sensitive
again're looking at taking in this sort of fourth dimensional
space times of element then maybe you're able to see
snippets of events or objects that are essentially out of time,
so you know, for example, there's been time slip events.
In fact, I actually had a well I'm not sure

(52:51):
you'd call it a time slip event, but seven years
ago I was traveling on the six. So the m
six for your sort of non UK viewers, is a
main sort of motor where that goes up from Birmingham
up through well across through the through the country, and
more often than not their accidents on that on that motorway.
And I was coming back from Crewe in the in

(53:13):
the afternoon and there was an accident and it closed
the motorway off for basically on two junctions, and they
all got put through the back roads, and I was
driving through the through the back road, and I had
sat Nav on and I got to a particular point
where basically there had been heavy traffic, and the traffic
sort of petered out and my sat nav basically suddenly

(53:35):
stopped working. And that's not uncommon because it could be
a just in case if you lost GPS signal. But
then what happened was I appeared to drive through some
quite dense fog and when I came through the fog,
what I looked. What I came to was a village
on a single road, but the buildings around were sort

(53:57):
of round stone buildings, so they looked very much like
they were from the sort of industrial revolution, the sort
of potteres. That's sort of because the potteries basically as
it sounds as where a lot of the pots are
made around Stoke, so that you know there's prevalence for
that around that area. And but it's a case of
the houses were very old, and there weren't street lights.

(54:18):
There were really old sort of lanterns across the road.
Didn't see anyone. It was very sort of foggy and
either terrible sense direction at the best of times, and
so I was trying to figure out what to do,
and I just drove down the roads, went through some
fog again and came out and then it was as
if I was back in the sort of the normal

(54:41):
world now when I looked back, so literally it was
like what it's like drove through a wall of fog.
When I looked back, there was no fog. And actually
I told my wife this when I got back, and
my wife loves to explore. I have spent a numerous
amount of weekends trying to drive around there, trying to
see what if find where it was, mainly because of

(55:01):
just interested in the architecture of the buildings, and as
a case of I haven't been able to find it.
Now you look at the rational explanation and what you'd
say is right, well, it was foggy, you were disorientated,
and maybe you're a bit tired. You have come across
an area that you don't recognize, and it's a case
of maybe you know, that's just the normal look for

(55:21):
the village, or you could argue that basically there was
some sort of time slip sort of event, wherefore, for
whatever reason, you were either in a different locations where
you were or whether you're in a different time I
genuinely don't know. Again, it's one of those things that
sounds almost crazy, but I've learned over the last twenty

(55:41):
five years that never did discount anything to look with
an open mind, you know, a very healthy amount of skepticism, obviously,
but that's all I can talk about. A sort of
personal experience I've had like that.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
How very interesting. It reminds me of a story from
nineteen thirty five and it was am I or Cervict Goddard,
and he believed he flew into a parallel universe by mistake.
When he was still a wing commander, Sir Godard was
instructed to inspect an inactive air base located in Drem

(56:14):
near Edinburgh, Scotland. While flying over it, so Godard found
the base to be in a very poor state with
cattle grazing on the wide grass. Found the air base
to be in a very poor state and was in
complete shambles. Later on, while flying his biplane, he got
into some trouble thanks to some very harsh weather conditions,

(56:36):
and to avoid an accident, so Godard decided to fly
back to the air base till the weather cleared a bit.
As he approached the air base, torrential rain oddly and
very abruptly gave way to bright sunshine. If that wasn't
odd enough, he noticed that the air base was in
mint condition and in use. He even spotted mechanics wearing

(56:59):
blue overall and working on yellow planes parked on a runway.
The planes weren't the ones in use by the Air
Force back then, in fact, so Godards even failed to
recognize one of them. It's funny because instant renovation of
the place couldn't have been possible. And more importantly, these
guys weren't wearing the khaki colored uniforms that were the

(57:21):
norm then, and also the air Force painted all their
planes in silver, not yellow. He was completely baffled by
what was going on, and Godard got the shock of
his life. Four years later, Europe was war torn and
he happened to visit Durem again, but this time he
saw everything he saw four years back in nineteen thirty five,

(57:45):
the same people in blue overall service in yellow planes.
A full on dj VU moment. He even actually found
the plane he couldn't recognize before, and I think it
was a Miles magister and the same You know, did
Godard fly four years into the future or quite possibly
simply confused about his location? Who knows?

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah. Yeah, it's such a such a strange thing, isn't it.
You know, it's one of those things it's very difficult
to sort of to try and rationalize beause you think, wow,
that's that can't that can't be right. But again, like
I said, I think sometimes you just have to put
that sort of personal skepticism to one side and go right, well,
it is what it is. I have to see what
I think I've seen.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
You know, maybe you did.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Who knows. I mean, like I said, with that one person,
like I said, you know, I like to take a
healthy amount of skepticism and just say that maybe it
was a case. So I was just disorientated. But like
I said, there was there was just that strange element
to it.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Good stuff, James, you know, I was. I started off
in a paranormal group in Cheltenham. It was the Chatham
psychle Research Group. It was we're all connected to Kensington.
I got into UFOs because there was just simply nothing
around the area. So I was I was doing I
was going out and investigating and doing stuff. And I
did Central News with Ken Goodwin. I don't know if

(59:02):
you're familiar.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
With this, Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely with him.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
So and what what we did was it was more
of a like a promotional thing. So we talk about
a couple of cases and then we went up to
the Cleve Hill just outside of Cheltenham. And this bearing
in mind this was this was Ken's and the report
was the idea that we were going to go up
there and do like a mock SkyWatch, right, So we
were doing this lifing on top of the hill and

(59:25):
we were going to have this this sky watch that night,
but we didn't. So when we've finished recording, we you know,
we all went home and we had reports that there
was hundreds of people all up on Cleve Hill expecting
this sky watch. So we caused absolute chaos in Charltena.
I think it was. I think it was a Wednesday
of a Friday at but this is nineteen ninety four.

(59:46):
I think it was.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Wow. Well, that's sky watches an interesting thing as well,
because we're talking about one of the one of the
the things I'm looking at is that when you get
like minded people together and we talk about that sort
of interconnectivity, and what we find is often we get
a greater sort of range of experience. So I did
a SkyWatch about three months ago in Canic Chase. Now

(01:00:09):
Canic Chase is actually one the UK hotspots for UFO activity.
And what we did was there was research. There was
a SkyWatch with multiple EUFO groups and one of the
things I did was it was actually an experiment and
what I did was I did a I guess the
best way to do it. The best way to describe
it for you if your listeners, is that it was
a meditation circle. So what happened was is I had

(01:00:32):
thirty people in a circle, and what I did was
I took them through a little journey. So basically I
it errated a couple of scenarios for them where they
were creating. So what I asked them to do is
to create a positive image and then what I wanted
them to do was to sort of put it into it.

(01:00:55):
So I put it into a gift box and give
it to the person next. And that again, believe me,
I understand how how go back to that same woo
how that sounds, But it was about what I was
trying to do was trying to create a visualization which
would basically focus the mind on sending out a positive message.
So at the end of the at the end of
the session, what I said is right, each person, what

(01:01:16):
I'd like you to do is to say one positive
thing to sort the sort of world around you to
see whether we get anything back. And then about two
hours later, there was about a fifteen minute period where
we saw multiple objects in the sky. I mean, it was,
it was amazing. It literally we had four or five
objects that basically were there. There was a couple that

(01:01:37):
were responding to flashes and stuff, and then one of
them made this really big flashes. It was going past.
I mean, we had with us, we had all the
apps there to check for you know, you know, for
what was there any air traffic in the area, was
the ISS station around, what's the constellations in the area,
was there any cloud cover? So we know we did
that all sort of measurement stuff, but it was just
that sort of two hours later. It was that sort

(01:01:58):
of fifteen minutes of wow. That was amazing. And because
we've got such a good response, I've been asked to
it again. But what I've been very keen to tell
people is, look, all this is is basically just a
sort of technique. So I don't believe in the seven
Greer C five types sort of approach, because what I'm
saying is is that anybody can do this, Absolutely anybody

(01:02:20):
can do this. Anyone that says nobody that you can't
do it, then you know that's that's an element of
self interest, and it's literally just about being open and
believe it's the sort of power of intent. So you're saying, right, well,
look is you know I have I have good intent.
I just want to see is there anything else out
there sort of thing, and you know, we've got that
really good response. So I'm going to do the same

(01:02:41):
thing on another couple of occasions just to see what
sort of response we get. And then the more information
we collect, you know, we can say, right, well, is
this a Is this a viable form of getting a
sort of response? We don't know, but it's certainly something
we'd like to investigate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Anyone can do it. You can just go out and
you don't have to go into the desert or anything.
You know, you can just do it in your backyard.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Now you are still investigate in for the group.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah, absolutely. And also my own sort of mon sort
of web page as well. And so recently I got
a American lady to she agreed to come on to
just started a YouTube channel and she actually did a
two part video about her experience, which started off with

(01:03:28):
being a nine year old girl and her having a
sort of an amount of missing time, which basically as
she got older, she's obviously now grown up, she decided
to go through hypnotic regression with one of the sort
of one of the main American sort of hypno therapists
that deals with this sort of area, and that was

(01:03:50):
quite an interesting sort of experience.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
So if people want to contact you, you know, maybe
they're in the Birmingham area and they have to report
to you, where can they contact to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
James right then? Okay, so well the website I'll spell
it so it's it's www dot p A r A
L n O I A dot co dot UK, so
it's parilnoise. It's the words paranormal and paranoia. It was
it was at the time of thinking it was because
I was I going crazy or not, so that was

(01:04:21):
the sort of birth of that. But it's a case
if you if you go to the website there, then
you've got access to all the different sort of channels,
the Facebook pages there as well. So I've actually got
a small Facebook group which people are more than welcome
to to go to that Facebook group and add there
and we try and have a good, healthy sort of conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Wonderful. Now for all those dog walkers and people driving
and don't have access to a pen, I will put
James's links below on the website so you can reach
out to James. James, I really appreciate you coming on
and sharing that for our listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
That's great. Thank you very much for having me. Really
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Okay, no problem, James, thanks again, talk to us.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
That is all for today. Keep updated and connected with
this show on x Facebook and Instagram. And if you
have an encounter that'd like to share on the podcast,
you can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com,
or you can reach out to me via the contact
page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. A

(01:05:22):
big fanga to James for sharing tonight, and thank you
all for listening. I will be back next week. Till then,
stay safe and keep watching the skies. Goodbye sp

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