Paul Wallis Exposes The Shocking Biblical Cover-Up in the Book of Genesis: Who Created Humans?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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We're gonna go ahead jump into today's discussion. Tonight's discussion,
I'm joined by my friend Paul Wallace. Friend Paul, What's
up man, Welcome to the podcast. How are you good?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
A true secret? Thanks so much for having me on
your show.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Interesting topic to bring to the table, Very near and
dear to my heart for sure, and ready to dive
into it with you covering your new book Escaping from Eden.
Does Genesis teach that the human race was created by
God or engineered by ets?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Very intriguing, Yeah, I can see that would be close
to your heart. With Jordan Maxwell providing your endorsement on
your book there, that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah. I think he's the one who opened the door
for this talk for me, and it's right up my alley.
I really appreciate his experiences and his his stories really
that he brought to the table, and you know, even
you know, diving into some Assichen's work and for me,
I started with that kind of stuff and then you know,
as you know, there wasn't a lot of Christian Christianity

(02:59):
talk talking about the eloheme or being seated or anything
to do with the angels coming here and and dealing
with mankind. But that kind of opened up the door
for me to look into much later. The Divine Council
theory with doctor Michael Heiser and both of those who
are like headbutting each other sitching is wrong that doctor

(03:23):
Heiser has that website and stuff, they kind of kindterract
one another. I found my truth in the midst of
all the studying to be right in the middle of
Sitchen and doctor Heiser. So they're going to get your
opinion on some of that stuff too.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
So well, it's funny because I when I started out
on the path that led to escaping from Aiden, I
actually hadn't heard of Zechariah Sitschi, or Michael Heiser, wow
and or Jordan Maxwell. I didn't know any of these names.
My way in was really from the Bible. My background

(04:00):
is in Christian ministry. I was a a church planter
for many years and a church doctor for many years.
I worked as a theological educator for Pentecostal churches in
the UK and Australia, served as an archdeacon out here
in Australia, and in all that time I was working

(04:21):
with the Bible. I was training pastors to interpret the Bible.
And it was really out of that work that I
found myself on a journey that really got unlocked by
some translation questions they were That was the doorway down
this rabbit hole that led to escaping from Eden into

(04:42):
these what are controversial conclusions in sort of faith circles.
And as I was doing the research, I started coming
across Zechariacian, Michael Heiser, Marabininho and I thought, oh goodness,
so I'm not the first person, I thought to have
these things thoughts, and what do I do? Should I

(05:02):
quickly read up on all these guys And at that
point I thought, no, I'm not going to do that,
because I'm on a path here of working out for
myself from a theological start point, what's going on in Genesis,
what's going on in the Bible, what is the correct

(05:24):
way to interpret all the language we have here? I
really need to follow the integrity of my own thoughts.
And then once I've sort of drawn some conclusions, then
I can look around and see does anyone else agree
with me? And at that point I found yes, I'm
not the first person to tread this territory. And I

(05:44):
think I'm glad I made that decision because now I
think there's more significance in the overlap. You know, when
you go to Michael Heiser, he made his own journey,
situally made his own journey, and then when you find
an overlap, there's a significance too, And so that that's
why I made that choice. I still got a lot
of reading to catch up on, but it really is

(06:06):
that journey through Genesis and a work of translation that
led me to the conclusion that many of the stories
that our religions have curated as stories about God are
really memories of our ancestors contact with other species colonizing
planet Earth in the distant past.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
What year was this stuff taking place for you where
you started to kind of open up to this broader
understanding and started to do a little bit more research.
What year was it?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, it's I could put a number of different start
points on, but I think a really significant seed was
sown when I was eleven years old, because that's when
I encountered the work of Eric von Danakin. My mum
and dad introduced me to actually at a dinner party.
They were discussing his work. Charits of the Gods was

(06:57):
charting at that time. It had been out for about
ten years by that point, but there'd been a movie
and it was being talked about on the TV, and
so they introduced me to his work, and my ears
pricked up because I already felt dissatisfied with the explanations
I was hearing of where we came from. It seemed

(07:19):
to me there was a real gap in our ability
to explain ourselves as a conscious, intelligent, technological species. I
found that religion was a little bit lazy, and in
the answer, oh, well, God made us with God's special creation,
that fell short, and explaining how come we're animals? Then

(07:40):
how come we're so obviously one of the animals should
how does that work? And all this commonality that we
have with other animal species not quite explained there. And
then the scientific explanation also fell short, because the only
thing that puts us at the top of the tree
on this planet is consciousness, intelligence and technology, and science

(08:03):
couldn't quite say where that came from. There was a gap.
Eric von Danakin said that an external intervention made sense
of that gap. That was his thesis, and that got
me going, so that from the age of eleven that
was in the back of my mind and the question
was there. And then I guess the next really significant

(08:24):
thing that happened in terms of a moment was two
thousand and nine, when the most conservative pope in my lifetime. Now,
I'm not a Catholic, I don't follow the popes, but
I couldn't help noticing that the most conservative pope in
my lifetime had called on the Pontifical Academy of Sciences
to hold a colloquium, which was a symposium of top

(08:47):
theologians and scholars to talk about the theological implications of
contact with other species. And then his spokespeople came out
and met the press, and they to give them credit,
it made a lot of it. There was a year
lead into the event, and then there was a lot
of meeting the press, and they were saying, very loud

(09:07):
and clear, we need to be ready, not just to
embrace the idea of a populated universe, but to be
ready to embrace a brother or sister alia. And they
weren't talking about discovering moss on a moon of Mars.
They were talking about intelligent, technological alien species turning up
and the urgency with which that happened. And this phrase

(09:29):
that kept getting used, we should be ready sooner than
anyone anticipates to embrace a brother or sister alien got
me thinking, what do they know, because it looks like
they're preparing us for some disclosure. It looked like they
were expecting another authority to disclose that we're in contact,
and then they could say, Oh, don't worry, everybody, Remember

(09:50):
we covered this. It doesn't change anything. It just gives
us a bigger picture of God. And that caught my attention,
and a gauntlet was really thrown down by the senior
astronomer of the Vatican Observatory, Reverend doctor Guy Consolmanno. He said,
we shouldn't be surprised to encounter intelligent alien brothers and sisters.

(10:13):
He said, because they're in the Bible. They're in the
Old Testament and the New Testament. And when that happened,
I thought, I've really got to look into that, because
how could I have missed that. You know, I've been
for fifteen years, I've been training passes in how to
interpret the Bible. Could I really have missed something as
glaring as aliens in the Bible. And so from that moment,

(10:33):
I thought, I've got to drill down into this. And
it wasn't until two thousand and seventeen really that that
process of research accelerated and I realized I was in
the process of writing my next book, and I realized
what direction it was going in, and the moment I

(10:55):
sat down and asked the translation questions, why is this
funny word earlier him a plural word? That was the
red pill. The word Lahim often gets translated as God,
but it's a plural word. And so the moment I
addressed that question and said, well, what happens if we
read that in the plural, what happens to the stories? Well,
the change that happens changed my world, and that was

(11:18):
the beginning of the story of escaping from Eden.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Well, I'm gonna save you a lot of time, brother,
because when the word Elohim is used, it means father,
son and holy Spirit. Yes, I'm kidding. You've heard that.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
I know you're kidding. I know you're kidding, And I
have heard that from people. Because, of course, the first
time people are confronted with this information, an initial reaction
from a person of faith can be well, that can't
be right because it disagrees with conclusions I've already drawn.
And yes, they say, well, there's the plural. It must

(11:52):
mean father, son and holy Spirit. The problem with that
is that these Elohim conflict with one another. They go
to war against one another. Some of the Elohim want
human beings upgraded and intelligent and conscious. Others of the
Elohim want the humans so unintelligent that we don't even

(12:14):
know we're naked, and they go to war. The Father
Son and Holy Spirit don't go to war. The Elohim
make mistakes, They make absurd mistakes. They fail to anticipate
things that the reader can see from the get go,
so that it just doesn't have any wheels. The argument

(12:34):
that Elahim is Father Son and Holy Spirit, it means
if you just look at the root, meaning powerful ones.
And the thing that convinced me that that was the
right reading of that word is that the way the
stories changed when you read the God's stories in Genesis
and further into the Bible, as stories are the powerful ones,

(12:55):
they flip and suddenly line up in parallel with the Sumerian, Babylonian, Arcadian,
and Assyrian stories carried on the ancient uniform tablets. It
becomes apparent very quickly that the Bible stories are summary
versions of the stories of the sky people in the

(13:15):
Mesopotamian canon. And once you've seen that parallel, you can't
go back to seeing it the old way. Now We
didn't know this until the eighteen hundreds because we couldn't
translate the Mesopotamian stories until the eighteen hundreds. Eighteen thirty
five was when we found the translation key. And so unfortunately,

(13:37):
the wheels of faith, communities and theological change can grind
very slow, and so there are lots of people in
the churches who are unaware of these parallels, unaware of
these source documents, unaware that the editors of the Bibles
they're reading mostly believe that the Biblical text are based

(13:59):
on stories of sky people in the Mesopotamian.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Stories, which is every creation story almost right, Yes.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
It is, that's right. You can go to almost any
culture around the world and you will find parallels with
these stories. And as I started researching Escaping from Eden,
that was the evidence that for me built up and
up and up that there is a memory of what happened,
of where we came from, who we were in contact with,

(14:30):
and different cultures have found different ways of curating the
same basic story, the same memories, memories of the same
traumas that our ancestors experienced, and memories of some of
the same details about those who came modified our ancestors
and governed over us.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
I got so many questions for you, and I can
we could just keep going, but I want to. I
want to paint the picture for the for the person like,
who's the first time hearing this? And we're well studied
in this stuff, but the person who this is their
first time hearing this? Going back to Genesis in a
Garden of Eden and the actual title of the book
like Escaping Eating Eden? Who were our creators? Then? If

(15:13):
it wasn't God, what are you saying that aliens created us?
Like and put in humans here? What are you actually
saying moving forward?

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, it's a very layered story. There are many places
you could start. But if we start in Genesis one,
what's very interesting that's happening there and it happens in
other mythologies and ancestral narratives around the world, is we've
got something that looks like a creation story and everybody's
familiar with the Let there be light moment, and then

(15:45):
we have the sun and the moon and the stars,
and then the planet gets made and improved and life
on Earth has developed. Just go back and read that again,
because before the first word of creation is spoken, the
planet already exists. So before light, before sun, moon, stars,

(16:09):
planet Earth already exists flooded and shrouded in darkness. And
many of the ancient narratives begin that way, with a
devastated planet Earth and then somebody turning up to rehabilitate it.
So Genesis follows that pattern. Many of the stories begin
with the separation of the waters, the clearing of the sky,

(16:33):
so all of a sudden we can see the sun
again and the moon and the stars, and then the
waters are separated in the salt water fresh water, land
is cleared. You can hear this in Mesoamerican, African Genesis,
Mesopotamian stories. They all have these same themes and these
Zulu as well. That's right, and really interesting details about

(16:58):
the land being cleared by water of wind. Well, that's
in Genesis because what happens is the powerful ones turn
up in a Rua, a word that often gets translated
as spirit, but a bit of translation work reveals that's
a craft. It's a craft that hovers over the waters,

(17:18):
and that's where they begin their work. Rua gets used
further in the Bible. It's in Ezekiel. It's in the
stories of Moses and Ezekiel, gives us great detail on
what a rua looked like, what color it was, It
was silver, it had a glass like canopy, and he
describes the wheels of the rua in such detail that

(17:41):
NASA has a patent on those wheels and uses them
on some of its craft on Mars. So what you've
got is beings arriving in technology who then do work
on the planet. And these memorializations represent the fact that
this is an eyewitness account of our that our ancestors

(18:03):
have curated. So they were already here in some shape
or form, and what those who arrived in these stories
do is not create our ancestors, but modify them, and
that's how the story goes. So where life originated? I
now hold the view that Francis crickheld, the co discoverer
of DNA. He believed that the genetic coding for conscious

(18:27):
intelligent life landed on the planet because it's been seeded
through at least this part of the cosmos. The Zulu
have a wonderful story of that, and that theory is
called panspermia, and a lot of very serious credential scientists
hold that view. The European Space Agency has spent more
than eight billion dollars testing the theory by sending probes

(18:49):
up onto comets, so the genetic coding arrives whenever it
lands on a hospitable planet, it will result ultimately in
the conto life. And then the stories of our mythologies
seemed to cut in when some neighbors appear probably the
result of the same pan spermia, the same seeding, and

(19:12):
then modify what they find here, and the story suggests
that they found something along the lines of a primate
and modified the primates into us. If you read the
meso American version of the story in the Popol Vu,
it's very specific that apes and us share a common ancestor,

(19:36):
and that apes and us were part of the same
experimentation that was performed by these visitors. So that may
be a bit of a paradigm shift. It certainly was
for me reading that, But it caught my attention that
centuries before Darwin, the ancient Mayan culture had made this connection.

(19:56):
Weren't saying that we were descended from apes, but saying
that we both were descended from a shared ancestor. And
that's what science is telling us today. In DNA research, a.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Lot more questions to be clear that there's some people
even in Chat who are saying ANONARCHI, is this the
same thing as the Annaki or the Elohem? Is this
the same thing or is it a little bit different.
I've always thought them a little bit different in my mind.
But would you say that this would be the same thing.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yes, the stories that people know are the Anonarchy stories.
They are the stories from the Sumerian canon. In Escaping
from Eden, I refer to them as sky people because
the glyph that's used, the little kiniform marking that's used
on the tablets to indicate these beings simply indicates the sky,

(20:46):
and the flow of the story tells you that they
are people or beings who've come from the sky. And yes,
those are the Anonarchy narratives.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Most stories of the Anonaki painting to be like some
type of bad guys, like these rulers that created humans
to mine gold is kind of the narrative that comes
along with that word. Would this be similar to the
Elohem in our story?

Speaker 2 (21:15):
I think that is part of the story. And yes,
the mining gold connection is there in Genesis as well.
It's very easy to miss, but if you read the
Eden story in Genesis, we're told for some reason, we're
told the location of Eden where the humans are safe

(21:37):
in this enclosed zone, and then we're also told that
it's conveniently handy for some key mineral deposits. Well, who
on Earth needs to know that Adam and Eve, in
their blissful innocence in the garden of Eden, don't need
to know about key mineral deposits, do they? But there
is another phrase in Genesis that says that the powerful
ones put the humans to work. And you put those

(22:00):
two together, and there's a little hint that that work
wasn't like gardening. And yes, I think there's real evidence
for ancient ancient gold mining in southern Africa that appears
to be a couple of one hundred thousand years old.
Now science says that our ancestors were here at that time,

(22:21):
looking pretty much as we do today, but not quite
as smart. Not smart enough to farm and build cities,
but smart enough to work in someone else's mine. So yes,
those stories do join up. But I think you see
the word an anarchy or sky people, it's interesting because
it doesn't necessarily tell you that we're talking about a

(22:42):
single demographic ad anarchy. Some people have suggested it would
be helpful for us simply to translate that as astronaut,
because that's what we're looking at, people who've come here
from somewhere else, people who've come from the heavens. And
you don't have to get far into the Mesopotamian stories
or into the Genesis story before you realize there are

(23:05):
factions and there's conflict, and you may have a number
of et species bumping up against each other. And by
the time you get to the stories of the Sky
Council or Heavenly Council, which exists in ancestral memory all
around the world, and it's there in the Bible too,
it's very clear you've got very different demographics. You've got

(23:29):
energy based beings, arconic being arconic beings, and then you've
got physical visitors as well, all sitting in council conflicting
with one another over the management of Project Earth and
Project Humanity. And there are other conflicts too around hybridization
in Genesis six that suggest you've got a number of
different populations, some who may be here purely for the gold,

(23:53):
others because of other things to do with the planet.
Others may be for things to do with us, and
that's part of why there is this conflict rolling on
in the background in a distant past and maybe even today.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
As this conversation with would scare some some people. This
is the first time they're hearing some talk like this
about the Bible, about the creation stories, and and and I.
Right when I go to say this, I'm reading the chat,
they say, what about Jesus? I want to interrupt. And
I want to interject because what sets you apart from
most people who talk about the Annaki in Genesis six

(24:31):
in this type of way as someone who vouches for
these stories. Right, You're a Christian. You are a believer,
And that's one of the main reasons why I was
excited to have you on. You weren't someone trying to
debunk the Bible, disprove Jesus never existed and was a
copy and these kind of things. You're actually a born

(24:51):
again believer. So that's I think that's very interesting to note.
And uh, and you know, so people know where you
coming from, that you have a faith in the Bible,
in Christ and in God in those things.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, that's right. My agenda is not to debunk the Bible.
It's to understand the Bible, and I it's funny because
I would agree with a lot of what debunkers might
have to say. But my agenda is not to deconstruct
or destroy, but really to understand and all my life

(25:27):
as a preacher, that was my approach. I want to
know what does the text really say, Where did that
text come from, who wrote that, why does it say that?
And I'm really just trying to get to the bottom
of things. It's an obvious question to ask what about Jesus,
because there's no question that this investigation has refrained my
understanding of God, refrained my understanding of Jesus. I still

(25:53):
am a person who likes Jesus. I find it very credible.
I like his teaching. I seek to live my life
is teaching. But I could see that we have framed
our understanding of Jesus very badly, and it flows from
the translation problems in the Old Testament. Right at the

(26:13):
beginning of Christianity, there is a big debate over whether
Christianity should reindorse the Hebrew scriptures, a big debate over
whether they should be glued on to the teachings of
Jesus to make a Bible of Old Testament plus New Testament,
and there were some really significant church fathers right at
the beginning saying, no, don't do that, because we don't

(26:36):
endorse the sixth century BCE edit of those books that
turned the because there are distortions in it, and the
distortions of these what was happening in that editing, And
there's a very broad scholarly consensus that this editing happened
in the sixth century BCE to harmonize it, to make

(26:59):
it a book that taught a single theology. There is
only one God, there is only one source of all things. Well,
that's great, and I agree with that, but that led
them to try and airbrush out of the old old
stories any other kinds of higher beings, airbrush out what

(27:19):
looked like too many gods, and airbrush out what was
actually the memory of et contact. And they air brushed
it out by translating Elohim in some texts where they're
doing wicked things as or they're on the wrong side,
as demon, false god, chieftain, and then in text where

(27:40):
Elohim is clearly in charge, they're translated as God. The
problem with that is that you end up with God
doing abominable things, and you end up with a God
who cannot be morally questioned. You end up with a
God who who will pronounce the death penalty for eating
an apple, or genocide people because he's decided he doesn't

(28:01):
like them anymore, or bomb the human race back into
an animal state because they've built a building that's too tall,
or tell a man to kill his only son and
then only tell him at the last second not to
do it after all. These are the distortions that arise
when we translate Elohim as God, and it's a total distortion.

(28:21):
These church fathers didn't want to accept that because it
makes God a monster, and then that monster is supposed
to be the God that Jesus reveals. It's a total mismatch.
And I think actually anyone who's got a regard for
the teachings of Jesus will have huge questions already about

(28:43):
these ancient texts, because if Jesus is showing us what
God is like, then he can't be this unforgiving, genociding, unpredictable, punitive,
horrible being that seems to be revealed and the stories
as we have them translated, so for me, Jesus is
actually still a real anchor point for me, because I

(29:03):
love his teaching, but I think we need to reframe him,
get rid of the old framing, of those old stories,
and then also understand how Empire hijack Christianity using that
angry God image to turn Christianity into obedience versus sin,
worship versus idolatry, heaven versus hell. I think these are

(29:29):
all narratives designed to control and minimize human beings, and
the Empire thought we can work with that kind of Christianity,
and indeed they did.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Going back to Genesis in the Old Testament, and we
have the L or the eloheme the elo, and there's
different I guess races, different types of angels in different
rankings and things like that. Where is God in this?
Because a lot of times we read, you know, in
the English, we just get God, and we get God.

(30:03):
For when we're talking about ghosts in some places, we
get God. If we're talking about a zazel in some
cases like Astrooth is a God, like we're getting it
says God did this. Sometimes it's a capital G, sometimes
it's a small G, and you're supposed to know who
it is. But as far as the L and then
what we know to be like the all mighty, all

(30:26):
knowing God. Some would even say that that's not Yahweh,
that it's something even beyond Yahweh, like Yahweh was another
l himself or a creator God that was over, you know,
the land. So where where does like the God fit
in in the midst of smaller gods in the song
and dance of the scriptures?

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Sure well, the Apostle Paul did us a great service
when he defined God in his wonderful sermon that he
preached in Athens, and it's recorded in Acts seventeen. He
described God as the source of the universe. So that's

(31:08):
what I mean when I use the word God, and
I don't use the word God for anything else in
the universe. I mean the source. The Apostle Poor meant
the same. And Maral Billino, who is a very eminent
Bible translator. He worked on Vatican Approved into linear Bibles,

(31:30):
where the translation has to be very, very literal. His
view is that God the Source, doesn't make any appearance
in the Old Testament at all, that it's all stories
about powerful ones, about extraterrestrials. My view is very close

(31:51):
to his view. If you read the Yahweh stories. What
I would say is this that wherever we find Yahweh
appearing as an active character in the texts, we are
looking at an Elahim. We're looking at a powerful one.
Yahweh refers to himself as a powerful one. Yahweh is

(32:12):
referred to as a powerful one in the Ten Commandments.
You shall have no other powerful ones, worship only Yahweh,
Joshua says, reject the powerful ones that Abraham and Sarah
and your ancestors served on the other side of the river,
and serve only Yahweh. Yahweh gets really teed off, apparently

(32:33):
when a king who's broken his back wants to know
if he's going to live, and he sends his servants
to try and get a prognosis from the powerful one
of Ekron. You know a neighboring place with foreigners living
in it, and Yahweh says, is there no Elahim here
that you could talk to, pointing to himself. So there's
a proof text that Yahweh is an Elahim, and in

(32:56):
all the texts where he is an active character, we're
looking at a for one. My view is a little
different to Marvels because I believe by the time you
get to the end of the Old Testament and listen
to some of the prophets, I think you're beginning to
hear a vision of God the Source, like Jesus talked about,
like the apostle Paul talked about the source of only

(33:20):
one God, God the Source. And when they edited the
Old Testament the Hebrew Scriptures, that was the view they
were trying to paste across the old stories. So hats
off for that, but hats on again because they obscured
the extraterrestrial stories that their ancestors had curated for us

(33:43):
to know about.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
So when we read the Psalms and we hear about,
you know, King David and a different psalmists say praise
him with the timbrel, praise him all you people you
know in these different you know how marvelous as are God,
who created the heaven in who you know we read
tough about in job how we created the stars and

(34:05):
it can ban back to you know, oriyan and plads
and things like that. Is that talking about the essence
of God, the spirit of God behind everything or are
they talking about Yahweh and some of the other creator gods.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
That's a great question. I think David and the other
psalmists are talking about both, and I think the ideas
are really fused and confused in those psalms and songs.
It's unmistakable that there is a cosmic vision of God

(34:42):
in some of those psalms, But some of the psalms
are very rooted in the history of warfare between Yahweh
and the other Elahim. So I think you've got both threads.
That's what makes it such a fascinating topic.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Are now Like when you get into like a lot
of the Hindu traditions and stuff like that, you kind
of get this, all of these gods are emanations of
the one, Like they're just different, Like this is a
worrying aspect of a God, this is the loving aspect
of a God. Almost. We kind of have something similar

(35:18):
like that in the Catholic Faith with the different not popes,
but the different saints. This is the Saint of virtue,
this is the Saint of child bearing. Pray to that
saint to kind of touch this part of God. Would
do you think that that there's something like that in
the Old Testament with the different gods who were an
emanation of the One. For me. I think everything in

(35:41):
every one is an emanation of sort, the good, the bad,
the ugly, all of it. Yes, that's how I feel.
But would you because it paint that picture a little bit.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's a good question. I haven't asked that question before.
I absolutely agree with what you're saying, the Truth Seeker.
It's absolutely a foundational view of mine now that everything
in the universe is an emanation, an expression of the source.
And that was the vision of God that the early

(36:13):
Christians had who leant towards Plato because the church fathers
I mentioned before, who were saying let's not glue the
Hebrew scriptures on, were almost saying let's glue Plato on instead,
because he's got a really full understanding of what's going on.
He's pulled together the Eastern understanding that you just referenced
with the Western. He's got this beautiful cosmic understanding of

(36:37):
what God is, where everything came from, and it frames
the story of Jesus beautifully. I agree with them, and
I think by the time we get to Jesus, we
see that Jesus is really unpacking a lot of that thought.
And so that applies, as you rightly say, not just
to us as being expressions of God, but visitors too.

(36:58):
And yes, there are hints that you've got Elahim in
the Hebrew stories who are the healing ones, and then
you've got others that are the hybridizing ones, and others
that are the warfaring ones. So yes, that is really
worth probing. I haven't yet taken the time to really

(37:18):
get into the Vaders and the Sanskrit texts. I would
love to do that because I'm beginning to become aware
of aspects of that wisdom that made its way into Plato,
and that made its way into the writings of not
only the Apostles, but there are hints of it in

(37:40):
some of the later Hebrew and Greek Hebrew writings as well.
There's so much in that melting pot. So ask me
again next time we talk, and I'll know a little
bit more about that.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, you know, with all this, like I, you know,
take a lot of the Bible literal, but I have
a huge which place in my heart for allegory in
the Old Testament, like the deeper meanings of my spiritual
walk played out the hero's journey with each individual with
King David. When I got to face my giants. Will

(38:14):
I sacrifice that thing that's closest to me that I
don't want to let go of, Like will I give
it up only to receive something better? Kind of thing
like in each of these stories, like we see a
mirror as as we're reading this about ourselves. Yes, where
do you stand on the allegory woven within those stories
as well?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
See you have said that beautifully. And this is the
reason why I'd want to say very clearly, I'm not
a deep bunker of the Bible, because there is phenomenal
depth and wisdom in it, and even those editors who
did that reaction were communicating something really important and powerful.

(38:56):
And what you just said about the hero's journey it
it relates to how I wrote Escaping from Eden because
the last sort of prompt telling me, Paul, sit down,
drill down into this work out what's really going on
was when I preached through the stories of beginnings in

(39:17):
Genesis in a church I was working in Victoria, and
I began to think, wait a minute, this is the
hero's journey told over and over and over again. I
started reading the story of Adam and Eve and I thought,
hold on, that's really the same as Abraham's story, that's

(39:38):
really the same as Noah's story, that's David's story, but
that's John the Baptist's story. What's going on here? And
realize that there is this incredible depth of understanding that
has been layered into these stories so that you can
take the story of say Abraham and just read it

(40:01):
in a literal, plain meaning kind of way, and there'll
be information in that. And I love reading it that
way because when I read it that way, there's an
account of close encounters with sky people, a very significant encounter,
but it's been told by a theologian, so there'll be
other theological layers in it as well. And what you

(40:21):
say about the hero's journey, it's so worth probing. It
defines the story of Jesus as well. He's got like
the ultimate hero's journey. So I think that lens is
a really useful one to bring to many many of
our world mythologies, the Bible included.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
And how you kind of mentioned a while ago where
you said that, you know, almost like alluding to if
this world was destroyed and rebuilt, then these stories that
were in our DNA and crafted like they all it
just keeps coming through the lore no matter where. There
are these people who have not you know, physically touched
or represent and it, you know, been close to each

(41:01):
other on the earth, and they all had the same
story they remember as a remembering. And I feel the
same way with the hero's journey, like if this place
was destroyed and comes back, these stories of this dying
and being reborn in the triumph and overcoming obstacles, It's
in every movie, it's in Star Wars, it's in the Bible,
and I just feel like there's something powerful about owning

(41:25):
your story and overcoming your fears and overcoming your enemies
and those things, which is from Genesis, the Revelation as
a whole, and then from each profit, minor prophet, you know,
lay person. You know, they all had their own journey
that they went through, and you know, Jesus is like
beckoning us to take up our cross as well, right
because we have our own hero's journey that we must

(41:47):
die and be reborn and choose love, you know, just
like Luke Skywalker and those guys. There were so many
parallels because during my whole awakening and research and study,
I was watching Star Wars for the first time, and
there's so many parallels to the Scriptures that it's uncanny.
One of the things that you bring to the table

(42:07):
reincarnation and channeling and things like that. Listen, I talk
about all that stuff in my book too, because it's
in the Bible. It's in the Bible and people don't
even know it. And when I found this stuff out,
like it was I seen it in Star Wars, like
they have little things of let me teach you to
commune with your teacher who came before you, and Yoda

(42:30):
takes Luke Skywalker and teaches them how to uh well
obi wan and teaches them how to commune with Qui
gon Jin from behind the grave. And then we read
the scriptures when Jesus was going into deep levels of
prayer upon the mountain, when we kind of got to
follow him at the amount of transfiguration, we got to
see what he was doing, and he had this visitation

(42:52):
where he was meeting with his elders that were teaching
him from beyond the grave, when he would go into
prayer and meditate.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, that's powerful, and you see, George Lucas is a
very interesting case in point, because not only do you
have layers and layers of ancient mythology being retold in
Star Wars. You've also got information like the Death Star.
No one had seen Iapetus or me Mass, which are

(43:26):
the spitting image of the death Star until oh, when
was it the nineteen eighties. I think there's a little
blurry image we had for the first time, and then
two thousand and four was the first time we could
see that the death Star was the spitting image. So
how did George Lucas have that image in nineteen seventy six.

(43:46):
Scriptwriters do sometimes get fed information that has not yet
been released to the public, and George Lucas may have
had some of that. But I believe that George Lucas
has talked about channeled information going into the mix of
Star Wars, and I believe that, and I actually think

(44:10):
that's where the image of the Death Star came from.
Channeling is in the Bible. You're quite right, and it's
one of those little anomalies that believers skip over when
they're reading the Bible because it's outside of the frame
of the Orthodox mainstream. But if you read John's letters
and the New Testament, he's got a little helpful guide

(44:33):
to do with channeling and makes very clear that channeling
was part of the early Christian experience before the Empire
narrowed it all down to this religion of worship and obedience.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I think that the Bible or inspired writing is something
we would call auto you know what I'm saying, automatic
writing or channeled writing, where you're getting inspired by the
Holy Spirit or by God. And so I always say
in my stuff, like I channel the heart of God,
the heart of the Father, Like we're channeling his heart.
What would he say to his people to speak to

(45:07):
them in love and to build them up and things
like that, So you know, it's not that far outside
of the realm of understanding and when you're thinking about
channeling information, I.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Believe in that. I believe that sometimes when we get
into storytelling mode, we are actually beginning to channel without
necessarily realizing that's what we're doing. And sometimes we tell
the truth in fiction very consciously. Sometimes we tell the
truth in fiction without knowing that's what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
I don't think that I feel like there's there's not
anything that you can make up and trying to bring
it to the table in fiction that it did not
already exist. Because with that understanding, man, we've seen some
really interesting stuff. And I've interviewed people who have had
encounters with any type of entity that you can think of,
you know, and I've had so many encounters myself. But

(46:00):
it's a place of having faith or believing that it's true,
and then it shows itself to you. And so that
the channeling, the angels, the demons, if you believe it
to be true, what happens it shows itself to you.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Well, that's right, that's right. You have to have some
kind of a framework to understand what you're seeing or
understand what you're experiencing. And it's why for me, for instance,
when Escaping from Eden came out earlier this year, I
started being contacted weekly and some weeks every single day

(46:35):
by people who had had anomalous experiences, not necessarily of ETS,
but anomalous experiences that they couldn't talk about and they
thought they could talk to me about it. So they
contacted me, and people began asking me, Paul, have you
ever had a close encounter, you know, with an ET?
And early on my answer was no, I haven't. I

(46:58):
know a lot of people who have. But then my
answer started to shift because as I heard more and
more testimony. I realized, wait a minute, there was that
funny thing that happened to me back in nineteen eighty five,
and then that funny thing and that funny thing, and
I began joining the dots and realized that I had

(47:19):
a number of experiences that I had never understood because
I didn't have the framework to understand it. I had
some experiences that I thought, I don't understand it. It
must have been demonic because that was one of my boxes.
Or I had that experience I don't understand. It must
have been angelic because that was one of my boxes,
Or that must have been God. Now I've got more boxes.

(47:41):
I realized there are more kinds of entity and reality
and dimensionality to the universe, and I can look back
and say, wow, actually, those were ety encounters. I just
didn't have the language for it. So the language we
have in our heads really can shape what we think we'reperiencing.
And that's one of the reasons I wrote Escaping for

(48:02):
me and to try and break the taboo, to put
the language of a populated universe back on the table
so people can begin and telling their own stories and
hearing from others. And I think that will shift the
worldview of many if we can talk and listen in
that open minded way.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
My next question, I think the two kind of kind
of tie together a little bit. But what about shamanic
experiences and so like seeing some of the primitive spirituality
of the Bible which is forgotten, you know? And I
think that we can look at the other cultures and
see some similar things that they're doing, whether it's transcendental meditation,

(48:48):
whether it's fasting, Like there's a bunch of like intense
spirituality that was practiced in the Bible that we look
at it now is primitive. Some of it, I feel
like made it over to the charismatic movements and Pentecosta
movements to Quakers and shaking and dancing and shouting but
then getting really still and quiet and allowing God to

(49:08):
speak to you. And there was a lot of like
really deep spirituality that was in the Old Testament that
we look over and forget. Do you have any of
those examples where we would we would call them shamanic
or they would appear to be that way.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Definitely, And it's so interesting how all this joins up.
First of all, because a lot of shamanic traditions have
language for other dimensional beings and extraterrestrial beings. There is
shamanism in the Bible. It's it's in a way, you've
got to go looking for it. But you start reading

(49:45):
the stories of the prophets, start looking at what the
instructions were to priests, and you realize that you've got
a pattern of shamanism there, that there is a use
of plants, of smoke, technology, silence, dance, vibration. It occurs

(50:08):
in shamanism around the world, and it is there in
the Hebrew tradition as well. What made me make the
connection with shamanism was when I read the pop paul Vu,
which is the Mayan story of where we all came from.
And like many of the stories of humanity's evolution, their

(50:29):
story is that we were engineered from a primate ancestor
and an upgraded, upgraded, upgraded, until we were US plus
US plus precognition, telepathy, remote viewing, self healing, and the
engineers as they're called, and the pope or Vu the
visitors said, these humans are a little bit difficult to manage.

(50:54):
I mean, how do you enslave or heard a creature
that's got precognition? I mean you're losing wicket. So they decided,
we've got to downgrade these humans, and so they created
a vapor that, when it was sprayed over human populations,
damaged our neurological connections and brought us back down to

(51:14):
a three D world and our five physical senses. What's
interesting about that how it connects with shamanism, is that
the same culture that curated that story of the final
downgrade has curated all kinds of practices to re upgrade
our experience. And so in the Meso American tradition, you've

(51:35):
got psycho effective teas that are designed to do exactly
that make us more conscious, allow us to see beyond
the physical limitation of our locality, psycho effective teas that
mean we can interact with other kinds of being, that
we can begin to see ourselves as a consciousness that

(51:56):
precedes this life and follows it. That of shamanism is
very connected with this et narrative. My ears pricked up
when I read that, because I already knew about this syndrome,
a neurological syndrome called acquired savant syndrome, which is where
people have an accident, they get a brain injury. There's

(52:18):
a central nervous system event, and it actually releases phenomenal
skills that they didn't have before, mathematical skills, a new
language they couldn't speak before, musical artistic ability they didn't
have before, very very objective shift in the upwards direction.
And it's so strange. How can an injury make a
human being cleverer? And the neurologist to study this, Darryl

(52:43):
Trefford of Marian University, has more than seventy cases of
this that he's tracked. You see, our science baffles at that,
but the mythology of the popol vu says that's perfectly understandable.
We all have those higher capacities, but they've been put
into the opposition. Shamanism mystical traditions are all about turning

(53:03):
the inhibitors off re upgrading us, and so you can
find psycho effective teas, smoke and smoking, ceremonies, use of vibration,
chanting music, dance control, conscious breathing. These are elements of
shamanism in cultures with no contact with each other, apparently
all around the world, and that is what they're aiming at,

(53:23):
getting us more conscious, more intelligent, better able to self heal.
And many people who practice those things, myself included, would
say it does release these abilities. I can say I've
experienced fragments, fragmentary moments of remote viewing, precognition, telepathic connection

(53:46):
through using those mystical and shamanic modalities, and that I
find that really exciting and to begin to honor those
traditions instead of seeing talking about witch doctors and seeing
them as primitive and so on and so forth. No,
they have curated something really really important. If we could
all live more intelligently on this planet, what would that
look like?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
The the evil aliens are wicked rulers or whoever? Why
is this stuff forgotten? Why is this scheduled one substance
that will lock you up forever if they catch you
with any of some of these things that we're talking about,
the plant medicines and shamanic medicines, and and it's forgotten
that their church calls it evil wicked. Who's running the show?

(54:33):
You know? Is there are there? I feel like all
sources say the bad guys are are running this thing
at the at the top levels of schooling, of society,
of government, of the pharmaceutical industries, like that these people
do not have our best interest in mind and want
to you're talking about ruling us. They're definitely the ruling

(54:54):
class of what we have. Who are these people? We
call them our presidents, we call them our dict Who
are they?

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Yes? I think the more you read world mythologies and
ancient ancestral narratives, the boy you start thinking that these
guys writing about twenty twenty, because the themes really are
the same. If you just go to Genesis, for instance,
and you look at what the Sky Council is debating over.

(55:26):
In Genesis, they're debating over how healthy should the human
beings be, what access should they have to medical cures,
how long lived should they be, how intelligent should they be,
how much access to information? How much awareness and access
should they have to us the powerful ones. These are

(55:48):
all the debates they have, and it seems to me
they're the same debates being had in the twenty first century.
Access to clean and safe drinking water, access to safe food,
access to medication, access to education, access to the truth
of what's going on. These are all live issues. Is

(56:09):
it a coincidence that these are the same live issues.
Genesis suggests that there is this cabal of other species
who all have a stakeholding in Project Earth and Project
Humanity and they're conflicting over it. Then is that story
told to tell us why things work the way they
do today? And my suspicion is yes, it's a story

(56:33):
about now just as much as then. And then there's
the question of, well, how does this relate to the
past structures we can see, because there's a very interesting
moment that comes if you follow the stories of the Bible,
where you've got the powerful ones seemingly running the show,
but all of a sudden they're not there anymore. You've

(56:56):
just got the priesthoods, You've just got the technology, you've
got the Ark of the Covenant, you've got the Urim
and Thummin, you've got people going and consulting their totems.
But where actually are the powerful ones? And that story
anyone who's watched the original series of Star Trek knows
that story got told a couple of times where it

(57:17):
turned out things were being rung by the priests but
the gods had disappeared. But it raises a really interesting question,
the one you've just asked, who's in charge? Why are
these the issues and why are they the issues in
twenty twenty, after we've had you know, revolutions, we've got democracy,
we've got the media. Why yeah, clean energy exactly, why

(57:40):
is this still an issue? And you see, clean energy
is a really good illustration of the question because Ed Mitchell,
the sixth man to walk on the moon, as a
NASA alumnus, he would have been bound by layer on
layer of official secrets laws, and yet he was very
spoken in championing the cause of disclosure, and he said

(58:03):
one of the things that motivated him was that the
human race should be benefiting from clean, free energy, which
he believed was available through our technological contact with et species.
And that's what he was allowed to say, So goodness
only knows what he was not allowed to say. Now,
if you listen to him and you come to that conclusion,

(58:26):
then you come back to the question of why is
that technology suppressed and who's suppressing it? Who and by
what authority has made the decision we're not going to
have free energy and we're going to be enslaved to
oil companies and so on and so forth. We see
the conflict over clean energy playing out in our politics,
But is the root of it actually somewhere else you

(58:49):
can see it. Also, I talk about this and the
sequel to Escaping from Eden. There is a conflict on
planet Earth right now between two models of farming. There's
the tradition model of farming, which is rotational, natural, organic, sustainable,
and then you've got an industrial model where you have

(59:09):
infertile soil and you need petrochemicals to grow your food,
and then you have to buy patented foods every year
to grow them. Those are two different models of farming,
and my studies in Escaping from Eden and for its
sequel suggest to me that those conflicts originate off planet
and in cultures that came from somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
It's interesting, I think. I think these these so called
leaders have you know, malicious intent and feeding us things
that our bodies weren't meant to eat, and they're okay
with signing off one stuff. I mean, it's the list
goes on and on and on.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Just just not to make it too bleak. As something
I forgot to say though, is worth remembering. On that council.
There's a spectrum. There's a spectrum of beings. There's some
who have no empathy for humanity at all, and there
are others who I believe are here because they are
concerned for us and they are advocating for us. And

(01:00:09):
there's been this strange kind of stability and a stability
of non disclosure for at least seventy years because there
is a power balance with a little bit of hope,
because I think there is a positive eachy presence that's
involved in the story of humanity right now as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I mean some people with you know, I mean, how
do you choose though? Do we vote these these individuals in?
Surely not the Democratic Republic is one good and one
bad because the Church will definitely tell you that the
Democratic Party is the satanic God hating party and the
Republican is the God fearing you know, keep God in

(01:00:52):
school like traditional like they literally see it like that
for sure. But that's not what we're saying, right we
colect our gods? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
No, we can't. And I think one of the things
that when people get this paradigm shift and they realize
there is an eaty presence. It's been here a long
time and there are layers of government that know about it,
it can be a very deflating moment because you can

(01:01:25):
feel so disempowered by that and as you begin to
absorb the implications of it, you realize how little we're
able to affect through our democratic structures. Democracy, I think
achieved some wonderful things, particularly after democratic reforms in the

(01:01:46):
eighteen hundreds, right up until when I was a young boy.
And since that time, we've seen power shift away from
democratic structures again, and it's becoming depressingly clear that there
is an elite that's stands above democracy, and we see
it reflected in the power of corporations, but we also

(01:02:07):
understand that it's happening at a covert level. The mythologists
tell us this. I've come to conclude that is the case,
and so my questions have had to shift because when
I was younger, I was hopeful that political processes could
really bring reform and positive change, because I'd seen a
little bit of that as a boy. Now I'm not

(01:02:29):
very hopeful. I think our democratic structures have really been hijacked,
and so my question has to shift to how do
I live in this world? How do we live in
this world, this world where there has been this sky
Council present all this time. How do we have the
best most conscious human experience we can? How do we

(01:02:51):
empower ourselves, and I think that peer to peer conversation
and disclosure is really important in this whole process, because
if we simply allow ourselves to be made too busy
by the world of work or syllabus bound in the
world of education, then we won't look above the parapet

(01:03:13):
and see a much bigger picture. This is why I
love what you're doing, Truth Seeker. I think your show
and shows like this are really really important in the
twenty first century because it's how we empower ourselves. Talking, listening,
getting the bigger picture, understanding who we are, and knowing
that our power doesn't come from our superiors, doesn't come

(01:03:36):
from the governments over us. It comes from who we
are and our relationship to the cosmos, our relationship to
consciousness and intelligence. And that's more and more where my
confidence and my hope comes from.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
You know, they've been here the whole time, and all
we had to do was stop and look up or
stop and look within one or the other. But we're
so on you know these things that you've mentioned out here,
and it's very well, it's very much a matrix that
keeps you locked in that you can't literally all you
have to do is just like stargates for just a

(01:04:10):
couple of days or something, go out and the part
is that to say, hey, I'm gonna spend seven hours
outside tonight stargazing, or you spend seven hours doing other things,
working your job, but you know of you know, just
being present in the moment. So I mean all of
the things you've mentioned about, you know, the spirituality and

(01:04:31):
the meditation and breath work and uh, plant ceremonies which
are like booming right now, and it like you know,
knowledge is increasing about there. There are connection with the
plants and how they can help us and serve as
a medicine. And so this stuff is because of these talks,
because of these podcasts and art and music and books
and everything is bringing this stuff back to the table.

(01:04:53):
So kudos to you as well. We're at the top
of the hour. We're gonna go ahead and go to
a quick break and then we'll come back. Got a
bunch more questions for you, Paul. I'm enjoying it so much, man,
We'll be right back. Thank you, guys. Likewise, thanks, and
just so you guys know, we're in the middle of
a hurricane. We're in the middle of a hurricane. Like
there's literally one hundred mile an hour winds back and

(01:05:17):
forth outside. So I'm hearing it outside my window. Sounds
pretty scary. We're going through a hurricane right now. But
we've got the internet, we've got power. We're making it happen. Paul,
we're talking about your book, Escaping from Eden. Enjoying it
man so far, and really excited to dig into your

(01:05:37):
work because it's not a one stop shop, like it's
not just you know, this isn't your song and dance
and you ride off into the wind, like you have
a lot of stuff that you're bringing to the table
when it comes to spirituality, when it comes to what
I would say is true Christianity and returning to the
essence of living from the heart, as someone would say,

(01:05:57):
in many different aspects with that. And so I'm uh,
you know, I, like I said, I went to your
website whenever I got the email from from your publicist
or whatever to check out your work. And and I
do with a quick, quick, you know, two minute glance,
I go and say, okay, that that that okay, that's
a great conversation. I've got questions and literally that's it. Okay,
let's book it, it's gonna be a great talk. And

(01:06:19):
so I had a quick, you know, synopsis of what
you were bringing to the.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Tiger than me. So you must have been learning at
a really rapid rate through real life.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Well I didn't. You know, I didn't do well in school,
and I didn't I never learned how to study in school,
Like I just showed up and didn't. I don't know
if it was a d D or whatever. I couldn't study.
It didn't interest me. And then when I finally got
born again and started reading the scriptures, and then all
of this other material, uh for the first time, like

(01:06:50):
studying became a new world for me. All right, ladies
and gentlemen, we're back. Like I said, we're going through
a hurricane down here in Mobile, Alabama right now, and
there's like over we have wind gusts sustain up to
one hundred miles an hour, so the power is still
on but it's going in and out. So we're gonna
have to make this short. But we got to make

(01:07:12):
it happen again, Paul, because I really have enjoyed this
conversation right up my alley, my research. I love it. Man.
We have to make this happen again for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Definitely. I look forward to it all.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Right, So if people want to get the book, man,
because you go into all of this stuff and more
that we've been talking about. This is the first time
for a lot of people hearing about this stuff. Where's
the best place for them to go to check out
your book and get a copy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Sure, go to Amazon, Kindle, Bonds and Noble. Wherever they
sell books, they'll sell Escaping from Eden. You can go
to my website which is Paulanthony Wallace dot com, Anthony
with an H. Wallace w A L L I S.
Paul Anthony Wallace dot com. Go to the pul Wallace
channel on YouTube or the Fifth Kind TV, and you

(01:07:56):
can keep up with everything I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Sounds good. I was the comments a while ago and
there was a couple of people like like again, it
was the first time hearing this, and I got to
talk to this man, I have to know more. You
got a lot of stuff at your website, right, because
I actually just go to the website.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Definitely, go to Paul Anthony Wallace dot com and you
can reach me through the About Paul and contact page
and we can get into a conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Good stuff, Paul, thanks so much for coming on. Man.
Enjoyed this talk and hopefully we can make it happen
again when there's no hurricane, but you know we can't prepare. Mother.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
I wish you well and I look forward to our
next conversation. Thanks so much for today.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
For sure, Brother, Thank you so much. God bless.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
It is such a relief that people feel and a
boost of confidence to trust your own judgment again, which
I think is you know, if you can't trust your
own judgment, it's so depressing. But the moment you get
someone else affirming you that it changes all that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
I didn't ask you, but did you go through some
type of excommunication or gossip and betrayal and stuff like that.
As you kind of begin to embody your experience and
be vocal about it, you're what you were finding.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Not yet Oh wow, but I'm not. I'm not employed
by religious organizations, so I couldn't I couldn't be de
licensed or default or anything like that. And I'm really
still in the process of finding out what the response
will be. A lot of my colleagues in ministry have

(01:09:31):
just sort of taken a step back, and I sort
of stopped communicating with me because I think they're trying
to work out what on what on earth is going
on there. I have some though, who I've known a
long time who sharing the journey with me, and then

(01:09:52):
pastors coming out of the woodwork all around the world
coming to me via my website and saying, Paul, thank
you so much. It's such a relief bearing a pastor
talking about these things. These are my experiences, and particularly
pastors who've been involved in paranormal ministry are saying, look,

(01:10:13):
I know about this, but I'm not allowed to talk
about it in my diocese. Can we have a conversation.
So I am actually quite I've been quite pleasantly surprised
at how much engagement, support and encouragement has come. It's
awesome from Christian and pastoral quarters.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Was so called awakening. Like I think things are changing
too though. You know, it was like twenty twelve when
I started talking about but I was probably reckless with it,
you know, and everything was brand new. And I'm sharing
articles on UFOs and talking about what I've seen in
the night sky and all kinds of stuff on social media.

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