November 4, 2020 • 46 mins
There’s a whole world in your backyard with multiple layers and symbiotic relationships. While we may take on the role of watering, pruning and planting, there are creatures and plants that have their own responsibilities and roles to play that are seen and unseen. Together they create an entire infrastructure and network. And while some are more helpful than others, ultimately it all works together to create a green oasis brimming with life. Host Mangesh Hattikudur dives into the delicate balance among the many living things with which we share our backyards. In this episode, Mango speaks with comedian, writer and actor Jim Gaffigan about observing all of these interdependent connections in our backyard. We also hear from Michelle Bertelsen, an ecologist at the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center about the science of invasive species.
For more helpful tips on creating a balanced backyard, check out the Miracle-Gro Website and learn tips like, How to Attract Hummingbirds. Your friends at Miracle-Gro are collaboration partners with iHeart Radio for "Humans Growing Stuff."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Maybe it's because I read a lot of archie comics
growing up, or maybe it's because I watched too much
Laguna Beach. But it's hard not to look at all
the flora and fauna in the garden and see it
for what it really is, a whole lot of high
school drama. In the cafeteria of our backyards. You have
the nerdy veggies clustered together and doing their work. I mean,
(00:27):
I was one of those. The vs are clearly running
for student council, desperately visiting every flower and trying to
round up votes. The roses feel like the homecoming court,
tall and good looking and yes, a little prickly. The
ivy leans against the wall, all punk rock, zero regard
for authority. The squirrels made varsity and can't stop running laps.
(00:50):
The worms are in everyone's business. The trees are gossip queens,
throwing so much shade. And the ants have to be
the worst marching band in the state, always out of formation.
Oh and the poor slugs they are never where they're
supposed to be, just total burnouts. Whatever zip code you're in,
(01:13):
it's clearly nine O two one oh in your backyard.
And while yes they look like a rambunctious group of
youngsters gooping off and causing trouble. They look out for
each other more than you might think, participating in a
network that shares resources, foster's growth, and makes for a
healthier backyard and community as a whole. And the day
(01:35):
after prom I'm sure they'll take this all in and
realize they cared about each other more than they ever thought.
Except the slugs, they won't remember any of this. Hey there,
I'm Mongays Articular, a co host of Part Time Genius,
one of the co founders of Mental Floss, and this
is Humans Growing Stuff, a collaboration from My Heart Radio
(01:58):
and your friends at Miracle Grow. My goal is to
make this the most human show about plants you'll ever
listen to. And along the way, we'll share sweet, inspiring stories,
tips and tricks to nurture your planet, addiction, and just
enough science to make you sound like an expert. On
today's episode, we're gonna take you through the bio diverse
(02:18):
world living in your backyard. We'll learn how you can
increase the health of that ecosystem so we can thrive
and become a sanctuary for the community. Not to mention
a cool place for all the wildlife in your neighborhood
to hang out. Chapter seven, The backyard Ecosystem. If you
(02:42):
know your history the way I do, you've read all
about the greatest warring tribes who battled for dominance, the
Lanisters and the Starks, the Rebels and the Empire, the
sharks and the Jets, the English ivys, and the deciduous trees.
Well maybe that last one is less talked about, but
hear me out in your backyard. Part of maintaining order
(03:05):
is keeping the peace between your green friends and their
common foes, and that brings us to the topic of
this segment, Invasive plants. Invasive plants are like your freeloading
cousin sal who slept on your couch for two weeks,
a little tough to get rid of, and evasive plants
can cause a lot of issues. They seed prolifically, so
(03:27):
they can overwhelm an ecosystem with aggressive growth. Some create
dense mats or complex root systems that inhibit growth or
force other plants out. And while they can look quite beautiful,
the species can cause big problems for the food chain.
Insects and animals that thrive on native plants, they don't
stick around when they realize their food supplies dwindling. But
(03:50):
that's where we come in, because our backyards actually provide
sanctuary for all wildlife to sleep, feed and survive. So
what exactly can we do? The answer may be obvious,
but it requires some work. Grow native plants and remove
the invasive ones. And there are some simple choices you
can make based on the ecosystem of where you live. Like,
(04:13):
say you're dying to plant something purple and perrywinkle feels
like you're only option. Maybe opt for the native frog
fruit or ground morning glory instead. If you're craving a
wall covered in ivy, get rid of that English ivy
and plant Virginia creeper. It's far less creepy than it sounds.
Plus it's not harmful to trees the way English ivy is. Oh,
(04:34):
and it's berries are a good food source to bring
in birds and insects. But that's just the tip of
the iceberg. I wanted to learn a little more, so
I decided to call up an expert. Michelle Burtleson is
an ecologist for the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, and
I thought maybe she could point me in the right
direction and Michelle, how's it going good? How are you
(04:57):
doing super well? So I I'm so excited to talk
to you about the ecosystems in our backyard. But first
I'm curious as an ecologist, what are some of the
more exciting aspects of the research and work you're doing
with plant ecosystems. So one of the things that is
most exciting to me, especially about the grassland systems, is
(05:18):
they're often called a forest upside down, so most of
their mass is underground. You can't see it, but it's massive.
There's a wonderful picture that I think the Nature Conservancy
originally did. It's a picture of roots of prairie roots basically,
so they show the top and it's with a scale
um and the underground goes down fifteen ft and the
above ground is only three feet tall. And so it
(05:40):
just shows what's going on under the ground. And then
as I studied that, you've realized that it's an entire
it's an entire community under the ground, just as diverse
as the one above the ground. And so it's this
hidden diversity that's I find very exciting, This incredible invisible
world right that is functioning beneath this is amazing. Yeah,
and a lot of what we're doing in restoring sire
actually trying to restore that that below ground community as
(06:04):
best we can. We only barely understand it. So for
those at home who don't know, can you talk a
little bit about what an invasive species is and and
if they're all bad? So, an invasive species is a
species that comes into a system and takes over. There
are not a lot of laws in ecology, but diversity
being helpful thing is one of them we need. We
(06:25):
want lots of types of species, we want lots of ages,
all of those things. And what an invasive species will
do is it comes in and you go from a
hundred species to one or two. It's still a plant.
It's doing what plants do. So there will be some
function that that is a monoculture. That's not good. Um.
The term gets thrown around a lot and just apply
to all non natives, which is not necessarily the case.
(06:47):
Many of the invasives are non natives. The natural checks
are not here, and we have our own species from
this continent have gotten off of this continent. There we
can havoc elsewhere. How do you how do you rid
yourself of if you find these species in your backyard.
First of all, you have to learn your plants, because
I like to let weeds come up. I kind of
(07:07):
enjoy watching them come up and see what they are.
But you need to know what those volunteers are. Some
of them are great, some of them are not great.
Some some of them you actually have to use herbicide.
There are re sprouters that you have to cut it
off and then spray the stone. Some of you can
just pull out as long as you're aggressive about it,
or you can do things like solarizing. If you're just
like this whole spot is nothing, but in basically um,
(07:29):
you can solarize. So that's just covering the ground in
in plastic for a certain amount of time and then restarting.
That's really interesting. What is a volunteer? So it's just
a plant that comes up without you putting it there,
just volunteered and it's here now. It's a cute term,
which I think it's great because they came up without
(07:50):
me having to do anything. But a lot of them
are not things I want to keep, so you do
have to identify them as they come up. We'll talk
about how you can bring pollinators to a small patch
of this. Pollinators are one of the most fun things
to work for, So I want an entire suite of function.
But the pollinators give you the most bang for the
buck right away. So just take the monarchs. So they
(08:13):
need milk weaves. You need to have the milk weaves
there so the caterpillars can have something to eat. But
then you also need to have nectar plants, so things
like blue missed flour which draws them in and they
eat the nectar off. But and it's just beautiful. And
so that information is very easy to find. There's people
all over the country working on pollinator plants and so
they will be I can guarantee a list for your area.
(08:35):
These are the twenty pollinator species that work, and so
then you just pick a mix of them and put
them in your yard and hopefully your neighbors do the same.
And then you can become these little way points with these,
especially the migrating pollinators who need they need points. They
need ways to get across the cities. And just from
an experience standpoint, so this is one place. It's my
favorite spot in the wild Flower Center. There's just a
(08:57):
little spot, so there's a pathway heading down to the
family garden. On either side of it, they've got planted
blue miss flower, which attracts just clouds of butterflies in
the fall. Because it's on either side of the path.
What happens is they just get covered in them and
then they fly across the path, and so it becomes
this like you're going through a bridge until this natural
area just with the living butterflies, and people just stop.
(09:18):
It's a moment and they stop and they notice and
they think, oh, we're in a natural place now. And
so just that movement helps people feel like you're in
a living system. Yeah, I know that that's beautiful. I
remember my parents took us to San Francisco when I
was a kid and going to like a butterfly garden.
Just the joy of it is incredible. So they're gonna
(09:40):
be a lot of homeowners and and and people who
are working in little gardens listening to this podcast and
and we're wondering what are some small but critical things
that that you can do to help facilitate growth and
make your yard a better place for your plants. Yeah.
I mean, and if you're a gardener, you know this,
But it all starts with the soil. So get your soil,
(10:00):
seeing what condition it's in and what condition it depends
on what you're trying to grow. And one thing that
is pretty much never wrong is adding organic matter to
the soil. So nice finished compost will help pretty much
any soil because it does it does a lot of things.
Having more organic matter in your soil will moderate, it
will help your soil hold onto water better. You will
(10:21):
also help you have better soil structures. You've got better
you know those whole you want holes in your soil
to have air in them. Um. It provides food for
all those microbes and fungi and everything we're trying to
grow in the soil. It's the base of that food chain.
If you do nothing else, add a little bit of
organic matter will help everything. And I'm kind of curious,
(10:43):
aside from the butterflies, what are the other creatures that
you want to see in your back here? Yeah? Well,
I mean you want to see bees. People are afraid
of them, but you don't. As long as you don't
mess with them, they tend to leave you alone. But
they're nice to see. It's nice to have in your
soil as nice if you've got some worms. In my
view of health, the healthy backyard would have a wide
variety of plants, so different types of plants. You want grasses,
(11:06):
and you want flowers, and you want trees, big trees,
little cheese. You want different ages. So if all of
your trees are the same age, that's a problem because
they're all going to die at the same time. So
you need to have some younger ones coming up. So yeah,
that's just high diversity, high cover, not a lot of
spaces between your plants, unless you're in the desert where
you need big spaces. Most places you don't need the
really wide spacing. You need more cover um and healthy soil.
(11:30):
I love uh, you know. I feel like when we
hear the word diversity, we often think of one thing.
But the idea of like so much diversity living in
your garden, living close together and it all helping one
another is such a beautiful idea. It is, and I
love seeing it. I mean, the great thing about working
with natural systems is you really are a partner. You
don't have to do everything. You just have to put
(11:52):
the pieces in place and remove impediments and it will start,
it will click on, and it'll start trying to become
a healthy system, and that's fun to watch. Michelle, thank
you so much for being here. I feel like I've
learned so much and and it's been wonderful to have
you here. Thanks for having me so, guys, I've got
a special treat for you today. I invited my producer, Molly,
(12:15):
who's behind so much of the excellence of the show,
to come in front of the mic and bring me
a quiz, which I'm a little nervous about, but I'm
excited to have you here. Molly. You should be anxious,
you should be nervous. You should be excited too, though
I did intentionally make this pretty difficult. So okay, man,
(12:36):
go here's the game. It's called Friend or Foe. And
what I'm going to do is I'm going to give
you the name of a plant, insect, or animal species.
And what I want you to do is I want
you to tell me if it is a friend or
a foe to your backyard. Are you ready? Yeah, let's
do it all right. The first one is called passion vine.
(12:59):
Passion vine, passion vine. I feel a little bit like
I'm in the script's spelling bee right now. The word
is passion vine. Yeah, I could you use in a
sense for me or tell me that. Um, I'm gonna say,
a friend, you are correct. It is also known as
passion flower or maypop, and it's called maypop because the
(13:19):
fruit is actually hollow, so when you crush the fruit,
it makes this popping sound. But what's really great about
passion vine is it attracts hummingbirds, butterflies, bumble bees, and
they're going to come in and help pollinate all the
flowers and plants in your garden. Oh my god, I
actually just pulled it up on Google and it's beautiful. Yeah,
it's a really pretty flower. Yeah, it's like this very
(13:40):
unusual kind of striking purple flower. Yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely
look for it. Okay. Next one butterfly bush. Butterfly bush.
So we had one of these in my house in Delaware.
I feel like my mom ordered it from like a
catalog or something, but I really hated it. Um, I
(14:00):
don't know, I friend, you know what your childhood instincts were.
Actually right, is a foe. It is an invasive species.
It is a noxious weed, as some might call it.
That's not great, all right. Next one tree of heaven.
I feel like you're tricking me with all these like
(14:22):
beautiful sounding names. It's really deceptive. I told you this
was going to be hard. Tree of heaven. I'm gonna say, friend,
you are incorrect. It is a foe. It is an
invasive species that was brought over to North America in
the seventeen hundreds, and it's actually really known for just
(14:45):
smelling horribly. It might also be known as its common name,
the stinking sumac um. It's also known as the varnish
tree and the stinking tree. But what's even worse is
it actually secretes a chemical into the soil that just
straight up poisons other plants. What what a misleading name?
(15:07):
That's crazy? All right, next one, and I will give
you a hint that this is a bird. It's called
a European starling friend or foe. This one, I feel
like is a famously invasive species like cane toads and
cut zoo or whatever like. I feel like it's it's
always on the list. You are correct. These birds are
(15:29):
actually not supposed to be in the US at all,
but now they have taken over in large flocks. They
compete with other birds for nesting location, and their droppings
are super problematic. Yeah, these aerial attacks, right, but they're
droppings in particular can hinder soil growth because they're droppings
can actually carry seeds of invasive species, and the droppings
(15:52):
transmit disease. Even the National Audubon Society says, it's okay
not to like this bird. Have to like this bird.
This bird's kind of a jerk. Whole goal is to
like make you appreciate birds. That's incredible, right, exactly, Okay,
Next one slugs, Oh my nemesis, friend or foe. Um,
(16:17):
I'm gonna say foe. So they're kind of both friend
and foe. They eat a lot of dead plants, which
is great, but they also eat a lot of your
living plants as well, so that's not so great. Not
to mention that they procreate at what I can only
call an alarming rate. One slug can spawn nearly four
(16:38):
hundred and thirty offspring in a single year. WHOA. But
the other really important thing to know about these is,
while I know a lot of people at home listening
will want to find remedies to get rid of these
slugs and kill them off in your backyards, they are
an important part of the ecosystem. They're a food source
for animals and birds, and like I said, they will
(16:59):
actually help clean out some of this dead stuff on
your backyard floor because they'll eat it. And while they
are going to eat some of your living plants, it's
sort of important to keep them. Is there any way
to just get them to procreate less, like put fewer
candle lights out? Like very like, I don't have that
(17:20):
kind of insight right now. Okay. The last one is
something that I know, like slucks, you've had some personal
experience with, and it's possums. Yeah, I don't. I don't
know what to do about this possum and how to
feel about it because it is so ugly and it's
russell by our door and woken me up at like
three in the morning. I mean, so ugly. It's cute too,
(17:41):
I guess, but but but then I also saw it
like scurry up the stairs, and I got really nervous.
I am gonna say, friend, you are correct. While his
presence may make you feel a little uncomfortable, mango um,
he's actually a friend to your backyard. So possums will
(18:02):
eat snails and slugs and other insects in your backyard,
which is great and but if you're in a place
like Brooklyn or New York, they'll even eat small rodents,
according to the Humane Society, which I'm I'm a big
fan of because I have lived in a couple of
New York apartments where we have had mouse issues, and
I gotta be honest, I would have loved a pet possum.
(18:23):
I loved that. Yeah, this is great. But you know
they'll also come through and they'll kind of eat all
the fallen fruits and vegetables from your backyard floor or
garden floor too, so they'll keep things kind of tidy
as well, which is super helpful. Yeah, so possums are friends. Yeah,
I see it in a completely different light now. Alright, man,
that was friend or foe? How do you feel? I
(18:47):
feel like you showed me a chart of all the
like community helpers and and now I know who to
be a little a are of and and and who
I should be smiling at. I'm glad I could do
that for you. Thanks much for coming to your molley.
I appreciate it. My pleasure anytime. And now for another
(19:11):
trip to poetry corner. This poem is called an Apology
to the Possum in My garden. I'm sorry that when
I saw you, I screamed and shoot you away, But
now that I know you feast on slugs, please help
(19:32):
yourself to the buffet. Thank you humans growing stuff will
be right back after a short break. As much as
(19:55):
we've been at home, isolated for the past few months,
it's strange also feel the strength of our communities. It
makes me smile to think of the people who have
been donating their time, their harvest, bringing groceries to the elderly,
pulling together to create services for kids in need. I
see it all over my neighborhood, all these volunteers, and
(20:17):
it's inspiring. But it's fine to look at the backyard
and think about all the symbiotic relationships out there too,
How the participants in that little ecosystem need one another.
Birds dispersing seeds so wildflowers can grow, geraniums warding off
pest to help the other plants around them, all these
(20:38):
things quietly helping one another out. On days when I'm
overwhelmed by the outside world, it's nice to look at
your garden and see all these things cooperating, realizing it's
natural to help one another thrive, and to take some
comfort in that. Speaking of comfort, someone who makes me
feel better about the world right now is comedian, act
(21:00):
and author Jim Gaffigan. You may know Jim from his
weekly segments on CBS Sunday Morning, or from any of
his numerous stand up specials, including his most recent The
Pale Tourist, which is available for streaming now on Prime Video.
Since March, Jim has really gotten into gardening, and it's impressive.
He's built out a couple of gardens in his backyard
(21:21):
and I want to call him up to ask him
how he views his garden, what sort of natural relationships
he's spotted out there, and what he finds inspiring about
it all. Hey, Jim, how's it going? Who is this? Hey?
How are you? Thank you for answering. I've been so
(21:43):
comforted by some of the stuff you've been doing. I
really love your family dinners that you've been putting on.
I'm a big fan of your work. But I know
you've been gardening in quarantine, and you know, I'm always
curious about childhood memories. And I read somewhere that I
think it's an eighth grader in India and you planted
some corn and had a good experience with that. Can
(22:03):
you can you tell me a little bit about that. Yeah,
it's so interesting. So it was so long ago when
I had done my first gardening experiment. It was summer
after eighth grade, and my mom really enjoyed gardening, and
I remember just thinking she's crazy. She goes out there
(22:24):
for just hours noodling around. But I was kind of
fascinated by the idea of growing something. I thought that
was appealing, and so I was in eighth grade. We
grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan in Indiana.
I decided to just plant some popcorn seeds to see
if they would work. I planted them in sand, essentially,
(22:49):
but they grew and it sparked this fascination and I
eventually had kind of a mini garden. But it was
very much a lazy approach to gardening. Not not not
that my enthusiasm wasn't there, but I didn't really embrace
the research that was necessary. I mean, I planted popcorn
(23:12):
in sand, which is you know, probably a red flag
that I didn't but it was it was so strangely rewarding.
And that doesn't that doesn't even feel like it should
work right, like it feels like a miracle in itself. Yeah,
it's you know, I mean the sand could support uh,
(23:32):
you know, beach grass, so it's and corn is a grass,
so I guess it's It's not the craziest thing, but
um and it was something that, you know, so it
built a bit of a memory that became a little
bit of folklore and my family. I'm the youngest of
six kids, so crazy Jimmy grows growesome corn and sand.
(23:56):
And so I did have this almost this belief that
I wanted to be a farmer. It was something that
I liked, the independence II you know, and that's what
brought me back to it during the pandemic was you know,
there's some some element of gardening that and farming that
(24:18):
seems you have some element of control. It's very similar
to stand up comedy. Like farmers are very similar two comedians.
They have no control. They attempt to control it. It's
an insane pursuit. And uh so there is something about
the gardening exercise that is very solitary that reminds me
(24:42):
of stand up is gardening has it become a habit
for you? Is what is your routine? Like I, you know,
I came upon it uh in a very unplanned way.
We had been in the pandemic in our apartment in
New York City for you know, from March to the
(25:06):
end of May, you know, not leaving our apartments. And
then I decided to rent a house outside of New
York City for my kids because we had to get outside.
And so we rented a place so that they could
run around, and there were garden beds there from the owner.
And so initially it was just this exercise, Well, it
(25:29):
would be fun for I've got you know, kids eight
nine and eleven and fourteen and sixteen, so it'll be
great for some of the kids to see something grow.
And so we got some tomato plants and we planted
some corn, and my eldest planet some watermelon, not realizing
that was too late for the watermelon. But it was
(25:50):
one of those things where I thought maybe I could
bring the kids over and they would be interested. But
my kids had had no interest whatsoever. But what what
I did learn was that and maybe it's a result
of after this really intensive quarantine with my family, the
allure of this time, this solitary time outside tending to
(26:17):
these plants, you know, pouring water on mud and turning
into something was incredibly rewarding. I would wake up. I
found myself waking up early so that I could water
before it would get hot. And um, it was it
was really Yeah, it ended up being such a rewarding thing,
(26:38):
you know, And it was you know, I think my
wife was kind of like, good, he's not here too.
So it was. And I know that, you know, gardening
during the pandemic was was very common. You know, some
people you know baked, some people you know worked out,
but you know, I don't. I don't know how to
make sour dough bread. So I did the garden. I
(27:01):
mean that that is the thing about all this, right,
being outside is a rewarding. But but also this reminder
that like going to a nursery is really fun, and
like forcing my kids to go on that walk, look
at plants and explore it is something I didn't expect
to get joy from. Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's kind
of hard to articulate, right because it is. I mean,
(27:22):
I'm also I should say that I'm a gardener that
does that enjoys growing things that have a functional purpose,
Like when I encounter friends that are like I'm growing
these flowers I'm like, that's weird. I mean, it's not weird.
It's not end garden for you. So next year if
(27:43):
we had this conversation because I tried to do sunflowers
like three times, not realizing that rabbits love sunflowers and dear,
you know, it doesn't matter how large they are. The
deal eat anything and everything. You know, it's so fascinating
because it's doing the garden. Not only was it it
(28:03):
was probably you know, beneficial to my mental well being
and there was a meditative quality to it. But I
think it changed my diet for me because I'm like, well,
I grew this zucchini. I would never eat a zucchini otherwise,
but since I grew it, we gotta figure out how
to eat this. And I think it's there's also something
(28:27):
really social about a garden, like you have this overabundance
of eggplants and zucchini, so and it prompts you to
be generous with those things. In some ways, you're like
just trying to get rid of them. So we rented
this house that they had a long crew. But I
would go out there and I'd be like, do you
(28:47):
guys want these eggplants? And uh, and it's you know,
then they became friends of mine. They're like, well, this
guy offered me food. But I also thought it was
fascinating how the things that were easy to grow, we're
less likely to be something I'd want to consume. Like
(29:07):
the eggplants and the zucchini's were like the FoST things
come out where they were edible, and I was like, what,
I gotta grow some cheeseburgers here. I don't know how
to get some of this stuff. I'm curious. How do
you feel about about all the wild life? Do you
look out there and and you're sort of amazed by it?
(29:28):
Are you just annoyed by it? And what are you
observing in your backyard? Oh, it's it's so fascinating, right,
It's just I mean, we're not that far from New
York City, but it is it's I'm observing, you know,
the you know, the circle of life, you know, stuff
going on where there's there's little critters everywhere, and there's
(29:51):
I don't know that I feel like there's a thousand rabbits,
you know, and in the front there's some I think
it's fast sinating how the rabbits they do that freezing thing.
Where you'll you'll be walking up and my eleven year
old daughter just goes crazy for animals, and the rabbits
will do that pause where they freeze, thinking you won't
(30:14):
see them or something. It's a very strange tactic. You
almost imagine that among rabbits. They're like if you see
a human, just play debt, you know, or they they
have some approach similar to how we react or supposed
to react when we see a bear. But it is
fascinating how truly beautiful the little critters are. And you know,
(30:39):
even a fox. It's I don't know, maybe I'm just
I'm turning into an old man in the pandemic, but
I know it sounds corny or something, but but it's
it's stunning to appreciate all these things and like to
take the time to appreciate them too, even though they're
irritating as well, right, like like you have to be
irritated by the bunnies, yeah, and and but like the
bunnies or the fox there, it's weird because they're living outside,
(31:03):
but they look like they just had their hair done
during me Like it's like that fox, you know, that
box is going to a hairdresser. It's like there's the fox,
like the tail. You're like, come on, you're too effect
me to believe you live in a hole. You live
in a hole in your tail looks like that, you know.
I mean, there's got to be conditioner or something that
(31:24):
you're using. You know. I was wondering, was it just
like muscle memory from eighth grade that you're gardening with?
But clearly you're like investigating YouTube and diving into things
like what are some of the things that you geek
out over? I geeked out over, uh, you know how
my wife would pretend to be impressed or you know,
I would post on social media like what my harvest was.
(31:46):
And sometimes I would post because we're in essentially quarantine,
and I would occasionally go to a carding store, but
I would ask for feedback online from people. I'm like,
is this what do I do wrong? Here? And there's
a there's a resourcefulness and a generosity from other gardeners.
(32:06):
They're like, you know what, put that on a shelf
for a week, It'll be fine, you know. And some
of this stuff I feel like maybe I knew or
I would hear my mom talk about it. But I've
been just thinking of like jokes about being lazy for
the past thirty years, so I haven't remembered it, but
I geek out about how it's all connected. How you know.
(32:26):
It's like if you get ladybugs, they'll deal with the
avids and you know, uh, and some of it I
haven't implemented, but like the you plant things near each
other to help protect them. How people will plant. But
there's there's so much to know, uh that it's it's
(32:49):
really fun. But I'm still at the point where I
will plant things in my herb garden. I'm like, I
don't even know what that is. And someone are coming
to go, you're growing mint, and I'm like, yeah, I
am growing mint. It's like I didn't know or and
it's not like I cook a lot, so people are like, oh,
you're growing basil. I want to make my own pesto,
(33:11):
and I'll be like, I can make pesto from that.
It's really dumb. I actually saw online that you didn't
just stick to those raised beds. You actually expanded and
create a second garden in a corner of the back yard.
And I'm curious, how is gardening They're different from gardening
in those raised beds. Well, it is a dramatic difference
(33:34):
in that the gardening beds that I inherited from the homeowner, uh,
they had those drip coils, they had they were raised
beds that had great soil. So that soil was pretty
crummy soil. So it was there was a process of
(33:59):
trying to fix the soil. And again I'm not an
expert on it, so I would try and do things,
and then I would go off and decide to I
would read about something like all right, I'll put hay
down there or something that will retain some of the
moisture in there. And then so it was totally improvising
(34:19):
the whole way. But it was it was completely different
because I also, um, I had done this clearing, and
so I was growing stuff and then I think someone
said to me, oh, you're growing it near a pine tree,
and I was like yeah, and they're like, well, that's
a pretty that makes the soil acidic. And I was like,
(34:40):
I don't even know what that means, you know. So
there's so many puzzles in the equation, right, There's so many.
So I'm like, I can't chop down that tree, you know.
But well, and then I was like, what grows around
pine trees? Does anything? Yeah? Well what did grow? There
(35:03):
was pumpkins that bloomed but didn't fruit. But I don't
know if that's a result of me starting pumpkins too late,
which is very likely, or pumpkins can grow in acidic
so well. I know that peppers didn't work, and I
know that beans didn't work in the acidic soil. I
(35:25):
mean I was going through this exercise earlier of trying
to figure out like where in the high school hierarchy,
like various things in the backyards set who are the athletes? Yeah,
I would say tomatoes. They're like the stars of all gardens.
And I don't know if it's the functionality of them
(35:47):
that everyone likes them. Everyone likes tomatoes, whether it be
in a salad or in a marine era. But they're
also pretty. But I just feel like there's so much
They get so much attention, where as kale is like
so easy to grow. No one really wants it. It's
just it's like you're You're like, we can mix it
(36:09):
into a salad. It's it's essentially an herb or a
weed like kale, you know, was declassified from weed to
edible it feels like in the last decade. And then
I would say that there's just and then there's the
there's the frequent friends, you know, like that you spent
(36:32):
a lot of time with, which are the beans. And
then there's like I feel as though beats and carrots
are you know, those are the friends that you hung
around with maybe once or twice. Like I feel as
though there's something about the reveal of a beat or
a carrot that is it's very deceptive. I guess it's
(36:54):
you know, it's kind of like that old visual of
a man sees the back of a beautiful with long
flowing hair and then as they get up, the woman
turns and she's, you know, ninety years old. It's a
little bit like that. I mean that probably sounds horrible,
but like where you you see this huge, bushy carrot
(37:15):
plant and you pull it out and it's just this stubby,
tiny carrot or it's deformed. I don't know what I'm
doing with, Like carrots are way too hard, Like carrots
should be much easier to grow. It's like you're just
gonna give us one, you know, whereas peppers or like
an apple tree, you're like, you know, like apples are
(37:37):
It almost feels kind of silly how many apples, and
apple Tree provides like you're just like, that's that's not necessary,
do you know what I mean? It's just we're not
gonna eat this many apples, all right, Mr apple Tree,
Like just settle down. This episode is also a lot
about the relationships that are going on in your backyard
(37:57):
between like the flora and fauna and and and the
eCos them back there, and we're kind of curious what
analogy would you draw to all the layers and relationships
within your own garden. Wow. I think there's something really
fascinating about the fence around the garden because it, you know,
(38:19):
like it's a pretty white fence around these raised beds.
It feels very it's necessary the the animals would eat
the vegetables and stuff like that. But there is part
of me that's like, well that's not fair, right. It's
like it's a little cruel for the rabbits to be
able to look in and go cheese. You know, there's
food right in there, and there's plenty of food everywhere,
(38:40):
so there is I guess I feel a sense of
almost guilt at times because I know that you know,
I'm relieved that this plastic owl will somehow stop a
bird from right when the tomatoes ripe enough, it'll stop
a bird from pecking at the tomato. But there is
(39:01):
part of me it's like, well, yeah, they I could
give them some of them. I mean, yeah, completely. So
I guess one of the questions we're wondering about is
when you look out in the back like, what really
inspires you most in the backyard undergarden. I don't know
if I can even put put to words of what it's.
(39:23):
I think it's the silence or the absence of our world.
How you can get away from the chaos of the world.
And that occurs when I'm noodling around the garden. It's
probably what I imagine people that run long distance and there,
(39:48):
like I look at joggers that aren't listening to anything.
I'm like, that's crazy, you know, But that's what I
experience in that quiet time in the garden. It's it's
I guess peace. Yeah. I like going out to the
garden because then there are these times when there's going
(40:12):
to be a surprise. There's you know that garden. You
know that pepper bloom could have turned into a little
bit of a pepper at this point, or uh, maybe
maybe I can harvest the cucumber this time. Do you
know what I mean? Because you know what there is
(40:32):
also about gardening is that there's something optimistic about a garden.
And we live in this with a certain level of cynicism.
I think the old me before I garden would have
been like, okay, you know, and there is the reality
(40:53):
is is you can go to a farmer's market and
get better vegetables than you're going to attempt to grow,
and the financial resources will be you know, if you
weigh out time value of money, it's there's no comparison.
So there is something creative and optimistic about a garden. Yeah,
(41:15):
I mean I found there's like pure optimism right, like
that you plant these seeds and expect them to grow
and whatever. But but I've also been thinking a lot
about if more people garden, will this be sort of
a more caring world? Just this whole idea of like
if you're constantly paying attention to plants and their needs
and like you make a practice of that, like will
(41:37):
that actually affect a whole generation of people? Yeah? And
you also think of as we've become more and more modern,
have we lost sight of some of these lessons that
we learn by realizing the different elements of how things
work in nature, And that I'm not saying I understand it,
but you're like, oh, you know what, I guess we
(41:58):
do need. Not that I have anything against ladybugs, but
ladybugs get rid of the a fits and and those
birds are actually good because they're protecting the plants, but
they get to eat some of them and so. And
I do also think that the first hand experience with composting,
which again the old man would have been like like
(42:19):
my last year, my wife had a compost on our
roof with my kids, and I remember I never went
up and saw it. I remembering that's great, honey, great
doing the composting, And that first hand experience with composting.
When you witness, you know, quality soil being created, it
(42:43):
changes things, right, you have an understanding and when you're
growing things, you you appreciate the importance of quality soil.
So it all kind of feeds into things. Not that
you know, like if I'm on vacation or like we're
ever going to be able to do that again, but
if I'm in a certain place I'm not looking at
the sho is decent soil, but you're mindful of Oh,
(43:07):
this would be good, a good area to grow something. Well,
thank you so much for being on this program. We
really really appreciate your time. Thanks so much, it was
so fun. Welcome to Pollination Station. So I learned earlier
(43:31):
from Molly that despite the deceptive marketing behind butterfly bushes,
they actually do very little to bring butterflies to your yard.
So I decided I needed a quick lesson on how
to encourage pollinators to come to the garden. Pollinators are
obviously important because they encourage reproduction and plants. Plus, over
(43:51):
the food we consume, it's actually distributed by these helpful friends.
Here are four tricks to bring pollinators to your yard.
Plant native plants. This sounds obvious, but growing more native
plants is a must do. Over time, pollinators have co
evolved alongside native plants, so your job is to continue
(44:13):
that chain and not disruptive. And if you keep native
plants growing, it won't be long before you have bees
and hummingbirds showing up at the party too. Garden a rainbow.
Everyone wants a beautiful, colorful garden. That's full of flowers, right, Well,
it turns out so do pollinators, especially bees. Planting different
(44:34):
colored flowers attracts bees to your garden, and once they're there,
they will get to work. Throw some herbs in there.
Planting a herb garden may seem like a no brainer
to give an herbaceous lift to your dinners, but it's
also an easy way to attract bumble bees. And while
basil and rosemary are helpful in getting more pollinators over,
(44:56):
they're non native, so supplement them with lots of native buddies.
Put in a bird bath. People don't often think about it,
but bird bats are a super helpful way to keep
a water source close by. You can also create a
basin for rain, which will attract butterflies and birds, and
that'll keep your pollination station up and running. That's it
(45:34):
for today's episode. Don't forget whether you're a beginner like me,
a pro trying something new, or someone in between enjoying
your backyard garden, they are incredible resources waiting for you
on the Miracle Grow website. Next time on our show,
we'll be diving into the world of garden fitness, talking
to experts on how to take advantage and burn some calories,
(45:55):
all while tending to your plants. If you like what
you heard, don't forget to rain and review a show
on Apple Podcast. Also, we want to hear from you.
What are your inspiring plant stories, relatable struggles or growing questions.
Tag us in your post or tweet using the hashtag
Humans Growing Stuff, and don't be surprised if you hear
your story featured on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff
(46:18):
is a collaboration from I Heart Radio and your friends
at Miracle Grow. Our show was written and produced by
Molly Sosha and me Mongy Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia,
Daniel Ainsworth, Hayley Ericsson, and Garrett Shannon of Banter Until
Next Time. Thanks so much for listening.
Maybe it's because I read a lot of archie comics
growing up, or maybe it's because I watched too much
Laguna Beach. But it's hard not to look at all
the flora and fauna in the garden and see it
for what it really is, a whole lot of high
school drama. In the cafeteria of our backyards. You have
the nerdy veggies clustered together and doing their work. I mean,
(00:27):
I was one of those. The vs are clearly running
for student council, desperately visiting every flower and trying to
round up votes. The roses feel like the homecoming court,
tall and good looking and yes, a little prickly. The
ivy leans against the wall, all punk rock, zero regard
for authority. The squirrels made varsity and can't stop running laps.
(00:50):
The worms are in everyone's business. The trees are gossip queens,
throwing so much shade. And the ants have to be
the worst marching band in the state, always out of formation.
Oh and the poor slugs they are never where they're
supposed to be, just total burnouts. Whatever zip code you're in,
(01:13):
it's clearly nine O two one oh in your backyard.
And while yes they look like a rambunctious group of
youngsters gooping off and causing trouble. They look out for
each other more than you might think, participating in a
network that shares resources, foster's growth, and makes for a
healthier backyard and community as a whole. And the day
(01:35):
after prom I'm sure they'll take this all in and
realize they cared about each other more than they ever thought.
Except the slugs, they won't remember any of this. Hey there,
I'm Mongays Articular, a co host of Part Time Genius,
one of the co founders of Mental Floss, and this
is Humans Growing Stuff, a collaboration from My Heart Radio
(01:58):
and your friends at Miracle Grow. My goal is to
make this the most human show about plants you'll ever
listen to. And along the way, we'll share sweet, inspiring stories,
tips and tricks to nurture your planet, addiction, and just
enough science to make you sound like an expert. On
today's episode, we're gonna take you through the bio diverse
(02:18):
world living in your backyard. We'll learn how you can
increase the health of that ecosystem so we can thrive
and become a sanctuary for the community. Not to mention
a cool place for all the wildlife in your neighborhood
to hang out. Chapter seven, The backyard Ecosystem. If you
(02:42):
know your history the way I do, you've read all
about the greatest warring tribes who battled for dominance, the
Lanisters and the Starks, the Rebels and the Empire, the
sharks and the Jets, the English ivys, and the deciduous trees.
Well maybe that last one is less talked about, but
hear me out in your backyard. Part of maintaining order
(03:05):
is keeping the peace between your green friends and their
common foes, and that brings us to the topic of
this segment, Invasive plants. Invasive plants are like your freeloading
cousin sal who slept on your couch for two weeks,
a little tough to get rid of, and evasive plants
can cause a lot of issues. They seed prolifically, so
(03:27):
they can overwhelm an ecosystem with aggressive growth. Some create
dense mats or complex root systems that inhibit growth or
force other plants out. And while they can look quite beautiful,
the species can cause big problems for the food chain.
Insects and animals that thrive on native plants, they don't
stick around when they realize their food supplies dwindling. But
(03:50):
that's where we come in, because our backyards actually provide
sanctuary for all wildlife to sleep, feed and survive. So
what exactly can we do? The answer may be obvious,
but it requires some work. Grow native plants and remove
the invasive ones. And there are some simple choices you
can make based on the ecosystem of where you live. Like,
(04:13):
say you're dying to plant something purple and perrywinkle feels
like you're only option. Maybe opt for the native frog
fruit or ground morning glory instead. If you're craving a
wall covered in ivy, get rid of that English ivy
and plant Virginia creeper. It's far less creepy than it sounds.
Plus it's not harmful to trees the way English ivy is. Oh,
(04:34):
and it's berries are a good food source to bring
in birds and insects. But that's just the tip of
the iceberg. I wanted to learn a little more, so
I decided to call up an expert. Michelle Burtleson is
an ecologist for the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, and
I thought maybe she could point me in the right
direction and Michelle, how's it going good? How are you
(04:57):
doing super well? So I I'm so excited to talk
to you about the ecosystems in our backyard. But first
I'm curious as an ecologist, what are some of the
more exciting aspects of the research and work you're doing
with plant ecosystems. So one of the things that is
most exciting to me, especially about the grassland systems, is
(05:18):
they're often called a forest upside down, so most of
their mass is underground. You can't see it, but it's massive.
There's a wonderful picture that I think the Nature Conservancy
originally did. It's a picture of roots of prairie roots basically,
so they show the top and it's with a scale
um and the underground goes down fifteen ft and the
above ground is only three feet tall. And so it
(05:40):
just shows what's going on under the ground. And then
as I studied that, you've realized that it's an entire
it's an entire community under the ground, just as diverse
as the one above the ground. And so it's this
hidden diversity that's I find very exciting, This incredible invisible
world right that is functioning beneath this is amazing. Yeah,
and a lot of what we're doing in restoring sire
actually trying to restore that that below ground community as
(06:04):
best we can. We only barely understand it. So for
those at home who don't know, can you talk a
little bit about what an invasive species is and and
if they're all bad? So, an invasive species is a
species that comes into a system and takes over. There
are not a lot of laws in ecology, but diversity
being helpful thing is one of them we need. We
(06:25):
want lots of types of species, we want lots of ages,
all of those things. And what an invasive species will
do is it comes in and you go from a
hundred species to one or two. It's still a plant.
It's doing what plants do. So there will be some
function that that is a monoculture. That's not good. Um.
The term gets thrown around a lot and just apply
to all non natives, which is not necessarily the case.
(06:47):
Many of the invasives are non natives. The natural checks
are not here, and we have our own species from
this continent have gotten off of this continent. There we
can havoc elsewhere. How do you how do you rid
yourself of if you find these species in your backyard.
First of all, you have to learn your plants, because
I like to let weeds come up. I kind of
(07:07):
enjoy watching them come up and see what they are.
But you need to know what those volunteers are. Some
of them are great, some of them are not great.
Some some of them you actually have to use herbicide.
There are re sprouters that you have to cut it
off and then spray the stone. Some of you can
just pull out as long as you're aggressive about it,
or you can do things like solarizing. If you're just
like this whole spot is nothing, but in basically um,
(07:29):
you can solarize. So that's just covering the ground in
in plastic for a certain amount of time and then restarting.
That's really interesting. What is a volunteer? So it's just
a plant that comes up without you putting it there,
just volunteered and it's here now. It's a cute term,
which I think it's great because they came up without
(07:50):
me having to do anything. But a lot of them
are not things I want to keep, so you do
have to identify them as they come up. We'll talk
about how you can bring pollinators to a small patch
of this. Pollinators are one of the most fun things
to work for, So I want an entire suite of function.
But the pollinators give you the most bang for the
buck right away. So just take the monarchs. So they
(08:13):
need milk weaves. You need to have the milk weaves
there so the caterpillars can have something to eat. But
then you also need to have nectar plants, so things
like blue missed flour which draws them in and they
eat the nectar off. But and it's just beautiful. And
so that information is very easy to find. There's people
all over the country working on pollinator plants and so
they will be I can guarantee a list for your area.
(08:35):
These are the twenty pollinator species that work, and so
then you just pick a mix of them and put
them in your yard and hopefully your neighbors do the same.
And then you can become these little way points with these,
especially the migrating pollinators who need they need points. They
need ways to get across the cities. And just from
an experience standpoint, so this is one place. It's my
favorite spot in the wild Flower Center. There's just a
(08:57):
little spot, so there's a pathway heading down to the
family garden. On either side of it, they've got planted
blue miss flower, which attracts just clouds of butterflies in
the fall. Because it's on either side of the path.
What happens is they just get covered in them and
then they fly across the path, and so it becomes
this like you're going through a bridge until this natural
area just with the living butterflies, and people just stop.
(09:18):
It's a moment and they stop and they notice and
they think, oh, we're in a natural place now. And
so just that movement helps people feel like you're in
a living system. Yeah, I know that that's beautiful. I
remember my parents took us to San Francisco when I
was a kid and going to like a butterfly garden.
Just the joy of it is incredible. So they're gonna
(09:40):
be a lot of homeowners and and and people who
are working in little gardens listening to this podcast and
and we're wondering what are some small but critical things
that that you can do to help facilitate growth and
make your yard a better place for your plants. Yeah.
I mean, and if you're a gardener, you know this,
But it all starts with the soil. So get your soil,
(10:00):
seeing what condition it's in and what condition it depends
on what you're trying to grow. And one thing that
is pretty much never wrong is adding organic matter to
the soil. So nice finished compost will help pretty much
any soil because it does it does a lot of things.
Having more organic matter in your soil will moderate, it
will help your soil hold onto water better. You will
(10:21):
also help you have better soil structures. You've got better
you know those whole you want holes in your soil
to have air in them. Um. It provides food for
all those microbes and fungi and everything we're trying to
grow in the soil. It's the base of that food chain.
If you do nothing else, add a little bit of
organic matter will help everything. And I'm kind of curious,
(10:43):
aside from the butterflies, what are the other creatures that
you want to see in your back here? Yeah? Well,
I mean you want to see bees. People are afraid
of them, but you don't. As long as you don't
mess with them, they tend to leave you alone. But
they're nice to see. It's nice to have in your
soil as nice if you've got some worms. In my
view of health, the healthy backyard would have a wide
variety of plants, so different types of plants. You want grasses,
(11:06):
and you want flowers, and you want trees, big trees,
little cheese. You want different ages. So if all of
your trees are the same age, that's a problem because
they're all going to die at the same time. So
you need to have some younger ones coming up. So yeah,
that's just high diversity, high cover, not a lot of
spaces between your plants, unless you're in the desert where
you need big spaces. Most places you don't need the
really wide spacing. You need more cover um and healthy soil.
(11:30):
I love uh, you know. I feel like when we
hear the word diversity, we often think of one thing.
But the idea of like so much diversity living in
your garden, living close together and it all helping one
another is such a beautiful idea. It is, and I
love seeing it. I mean, the great thing about working
with natural systems is you really are a partner. You
don't have to do everything. You just have to put
(11:52):
the pieces in place and remove impediments and it will start,
it will click on, and it'll start trying to become
a healthy system, and that's fun to watch. Michelle, thank
you so much for being here. I feel like I've
learned so much and and it's been wonderful to have
you here. Thanks for having me so, guys, I've got
a special treat for you today. I invited my producer, Molly,
(12:15):
who's behind so much of the excellence of the show,
to come in front of the mic and bring me
a quiz, which I'm a little nervous about, but I'm
excited to have you here. Molly. You should be anxious,
you should be nervous. You should be excited too, though
I did intentionally make this pretty difficult. So okay, man,
(12:36):
go here's the game. It's called Friend or Foe. And
what I'm going to do is I'm going to give
you the name of a plant, insect, or animal species.
And what I want you to do is I want
you to tell me if it is a friend or
a foe to your backyard. Are you ready? Yeah, let's
do it all right. The first one is called passion vine.
(12:59):
Passion vine, passion vine. I feel a little bit like
I'm in the script's spelling bee right now. The word
is passion vine. Yeah, I could you use in a
sense for me or tell me that. Um, I'm gonna say,
a friend, you are correct. It is also known as
passion flower or maypop, and it's called maypop because the
(13:19):
fruit is actually hollow, so when you crush the fruit,
it makes this popping sound. But what's really great about
passion vine is it attracts hummingbirds, butterflies, bumble bees, and
they're going to come in and help pollinate all the
flowers and plants in your garden. Oh my god, I
actually just pulled it up on Google and it's beautiful. Yeah,
it's a really pretty flower. Yeah, it's like this very
(13:40):
unusual kind of striking purple flower. Yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely
look for it. Okay. Next one butterfly bush. Butterfly bush.
So we had one of these in my house in Delaware.
I feel like my mom ordered it from like a
catalog or something, but I really hated it. Um, I
(14:00):
don't know, I friend, you know what your childhood instincts were.
Actually right, is a foe. It is an invasive species.
It is a noxious weed, as some might call it.
That's not great, all right. Next one tree of heaven.
I feel like you're tricking me with all these like
(14:22):
beautiful sounding names. It's really deceptive. I told you this
was going to be hard. Tree of heaven. I'm gonna say, friend,
you are incorrect. It is a foe. It is an
invasive species that was brought over to North America in
the seventeen hundreds, and it's actually really known for just
(14:45):
smelling horribly. It might also be known as its common name,
the stinking sumac um. It's also known as the varnish
tree and the stinking tree. But what's even worse is
it actually secretes a chemical into the soil that just
straight up poisons other plants. What what a misleading name?
(15:07):
That's crazy? All right, next one, and I will give
you a hint that this is a bird. It's called
a European starling friend or foe. This one, I feel
like is a famously invasive species like cane toads and
cut zoo or whatever like. I feel like it's it's
always on the list. You are correct. These birds are
(15:29):
actually not supposed to be in the US at all,
but now they have taken over in large flocks. They
compete with other birds for nesting location, and their droppings
are super problematic. Yeah, these aerial attacks, right, but they're
droppings in particular can hinder soil growth because they're droppings
can actually carry seeds of invasive species, and the droppings
(15:52):
transmit disease. Even the National Audubon Society says, it's okay
not to like this bird. Have to like this bird.
This bird's kind of a jerk. Whole goal is to
like make you appreciate birds. That's incredible, right, exactly, Okay,
Next one slugs, Oh my nemesis, friend or foe. Um,
(16:17):
I'm gonna say foe. So they're kind of both friend
and foe. They eat a lot of dead plants, which
is great, but they also eat a lot of your
living plants as well, so that's not so great. Not
to mention that they procreate at what I can only
call an alarming rate. One slug can spawn nearly four
(16:38):
hundred and thirty offspring in a single year. WHOA. But
the other really important thing to know about these is,
while I know a lot of people at home listening
will want to find remedies to get rid of these
slugs and kill them off in your backyards, they are
an important part of the ecosystem. They're a food source
for animals and birds, and like I said, they will
(16:59):
actually help clean out some of this dead stuff on
your backyard floor because they'll eat it. And while they
are going to eat some of your living plants, it's
sort of important to keep them. Is there any way
to just get them to procreate less, like put fewer
candle lights out? Like very like, I don't have that
(17:20):
kind of insight right now. Okay. The last one is
something that I know, like slucks, you've had some personal
experience with, and it's possums. Yeah, I don't. I don't
know what to do about this possum and how to
feel about it because it is so ugly and it's
russell by our door and woken me up at like
three in the morning. I mean, so ugly. It's cute too,
(17:41):
I guess, but but but then I also saw it
like scurry up the stairs, and I got really nervous.
I am gonna say, friend, you are correct. While his
presence may make you feel a little uncomfortable, mango um,
he's actually a friend to your backyard. So possums will
(18:02):
eat snails and slugs and other insects in your backyard,
which is great and but if you're in a place
like Brooklyn or New York, they'll even eat small rodents,
according to the Humane Society, which I'm I'm a big
fan of because I have lived in a couple of
New York apartments where we have had mouse issues, and
I gotta be honest, I would have loved a pet possum.
(18:23):
I loved that. Yeah, this is great. But you know
they'll also come through and they'll kind of eat all
the fallen fruits and vegetables from your backyard floor or
garden floor too, so they'll keep things kind of tidy
as well, which is super helpful. Yeah, so possums are friends. Yeah,
I see it in a completely different light now. Alright, man,
that was friend or foe? How do you feel? I
(18:47):
feel like you showed me a chart of all the
like community helpers and and now I know who to
be a little a are of and and and who
I should be smiling at. I'm glad I could do
that for you. Thanks much for coming to your molley.
I appreciate it. My pleasure anytime. And now for another
(19:11):
trip to poetry corner. This poem is called an Apology
to the Possum in My garden. I'm sorry that when
I saw you, I screamed and shoot you away, But
now that I know you feast on slugs, please help
(19:32):
yourself to the buffet. Thank you humans growing stuff will
be right back after a short break. As much as
(19:55):
we've been at home, isolated for the past few months,
it's strange also feel the strength of our communities. It
makes me smile to think of the people who have
been donating their time, their harvest, bringing groceries to the elderly,
pulling together to create services for kids in need. I
see it all over my neighborhood, all these volunteers, and
(20:17):
it's inspiring. But it's fine to look at the backyard
and think about all the symbiotic relationships out there too,
How the participants in that little ecosystem need one another.
Birds dispersing seeds so wildflowers can grow, geraniums warding off
pest to help the other plants around them, all these
(20:38):
things quietly helping one another out. On days when I'm
overwhelmed by the outside world, it's nice to look at
your garden and see all these things cooperating, realizing it's
natural to help one another thrive, and to take some
comfort in that. Speaking of comfort, someone who makes me
feel better about the world right now is comedian, act
(21:00):
and author Jim Gaffigan. You may know Jim from his
weekly segments on CBS Sunday Morning, or from any of
his numerous stand up specials, including his most recent The
Pale Tourist, which is available for streaming now on Prime Video.
Since March, Jim has really gotten into gardening, and it's impressive.
He's built out a couple of gardens in his backyard
(21:21):
and I want to call him up to ask him
how he views his garden, what sort of natural relationships
he's spotted out there, and what he finds inspiring about
it all. Hey, Jim, how's it going? Who is this? Hey?
How are you? Thank you for answering. I've been so
(21:43):
comforted by some of the stuff you've been doing. I
really love your family dinners that you've been putting on.
I'm a big fan of your work. But I know
you've been gardening in quarantine, and you know, I'm always
curious about childhood memories. And I read somewhere that I
think it's an eighth grader in India and you planted
some corn and had a good experience with that. Can
(22:03):
you can you tell me a little bit about that. Yeah,
it's so interesting. So it was so long ago when
I had done my first gardening experiment. It was summer
after eighth grade, and my mom really enjoyed gardening, and
I remember just thinking she's crazy. She goes out there
(22:24):
for just hours noodling around. But I was kind of
fascinated by the idea of growing something. I thought that
was appealing, and so I was in eighth grade. We
grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan in Indiana.
I decided to just plant some popcorn seeds to see
if they would work. I planted them in sand, essentially,
(22:49):
but they grew and it sparked this fascination and I
eventually had kind of a mini garden. But it was
very much a lazy approach to gardening. Not not not
that my enthusiasm wasn't there, but I didn't really embrace
the research that was necessary. I mean, I planted popcorn
(23:12):
in sand, which is you know, probably a red flag
that I didn't but it was it was so strangely rewarding.
And that doesn't that doesn't even feel like it should
work right, like it feels like a miracle in itself. Yeah,
it's you know, I mean the sand could support uh,
(23:32):
you know, beach grass, so it's and corn is a grass,
so I guess it's It's not the craziest thing, but
um and it was something that, you know, so it
built a bit of a memory that became a little
bit of folklore and my family. I'm the youngest of
six kids, so crazy Jimmy grows growesome corn and sand.
(23:56):
And so I did have this almost this belief that
I wanted to be a farmer. It was something that
I liked, the independence II you know, and that's what
brought me back to it during the pandemic was you know,
there's some some element of gardening that and farming that
(24:18):
seems you have some element of control. It's very similar
to stand up comedy. Like farmers are very similar two comedians.
They have no control. They attempt to control it. It's
an insane pursuit. And uh so there is something about
the gardening exercise that is very solitary that reminds me
(24:42):
of stand up is gardening has it become a habit
for you? Is what is your routine? Like I, you know,
I came upon it uh in a very unplanned way.
We had been in the pandemic in our apartment in
New York City for you know, from March to the
(25:06):
end of May, you know, not leaving our apartments. And
then I decided to rent a house outside of New
York City for my kids because we had to get outside.
And so we rented a place so that they could
run around, and there were garden beds there from the owner.
And so initially it was just this exercise, Well, it
(25:29):
would be fun for I've got you know, kids eight
nine and eleven and fourteen and sixteen, so it'll be
great for some of the kids to see something grow.
And so we got some tomato plants and we planted
some corn, and my eldest planet some watermelon, not realizing
that was too late for the watermelon. But it was
(25:50):
one of those things where I thought maybe I could
bring the kids over and they would be interested. But
my kids had had no interest whatsoever. But what what
I did learn was that and maybe it's a result
of after this really intensive quarantine with my family, the
allure of this time, this solitary time outside tending to
(26:17):
these plants, you know, pouring water on mud and turning
into something was incredibly rewarding. I would wake up. I
found myself waking up early so that I could water
before it would get hot. And um, it was it
was really Yeah, it ended up being such a rewarding thing,
(26:38):
you know, And it was you know, I think my
wife was kind of like, good, he's not here too.
So it was. And I know that, you know, gardening
during the pandemic was was very common. You know, some
people you know baked, some people you know worked out,
but you know, I don't. I don't know how to
make sour dough bread. So I did the garden. I
(27:01):
mean that that is the thing about all this, right,
being outside is a rewarding. But but also this reminder
that like going to a nursery is really fun, and
like forcing my kids to go on that walk, look
at plants and explore it is something I didn't expect
to get joy from. Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's kind
of hard to articulate, right because it is. I mean,
(27:22):
I'm also I should say that I'm a gardener that
does that enjoys growing things that have a functional purpose,
Like when I encounter friends that are like I'm growing
these flowers I'm like, that's weird. I mean, it's not weird.
It's not end garden for you. So next year if
(27:43):
we had this conversation because I tried to do sunflowers
like three times, not realizing that rabbits love sunflowers and dear,
you know, it doesn't matter how large they are. The
deal eat anything and everything. You know, it's so fascinating
because it's doing the garden. Not only was it it
(28:03):
was probably you know, beneficial to my mental well being
and there was a meditative quality to it. But I
think it changed my diet for me because I'm like, well,
I grew this zucchini. I would never eat a zucchini otherwise,
but since I grew it, we gotta figure out how
to eat this. And I think it's there's also something
(28:27):
really social about a garden, like you have this overabundance
of eggplants and zucchini, so and it prompts you to
be generous with those things. In some ways, you're like
just trying to get rid of them. So we rented
this house that they had a long crew. But I
would go out there and I'd be like, do you
(28:47):
guys want these eggplants? And uh, and it's you know,
then they became friends of mine. They're like, well, this
guy offered me food. But I also thought it was
fascinating how the things that were easy to grow, we're
less likely to be something I'd want to consume. Like
(29:07):
the eggplants and the zucchini's were like the FoST things
come out where they were edible, and I was like, what,
I gotta grow some cheeseburgers here. I don't know how
to get some of this stuff. I'm curious. How do
you feel about about all the wild life? Do you
look out there and and you're sort of amazed by it?
(29:28):
Are you just annoyed by it? And what are you
observing in your backyard? Oh, it's it's so fascinating, right,
It's just I mean, we're not that far from New
York City, but it is it's I'm observing, you know,
the you know, the circle of life, you know, stuff
going on where there's there's little critters everywhere, and there's
(29:51):
I don't know that I feel like there's a thousand rabbits,
you know, and in the front there's some I think
it's fast sinating how the rabbits they do that freezing thing.
Where you'll you'll be walking up and my eleven year
old daughter just goes crazy for animals, and the rabbits
will do that pause where they freeze, thinking you won't
(30:14):
see them or something. It's a very strange tactic. You
almost imagine that among rabbits. They're like if you see
a human, just play debt, you know, or they they
have some approach similar to how we react or supposed
to react when we see a bear. But it is
fascinating how truly beautiful the little critters are. And you know,
(30:39):
even a fox. It's I don't know, maybe I'm just
I'm turning into an old man in the pandemic, but
I know it sounds corny or something, but but it's
it's stunning to appreciate all these things and like to
take the time to appreciate them too, even though they're
irritating as well, right, like like you have to be
irritated by the bunnies, yeah, and and but like the
bunnies or the fox there, it's weird because they're living outside,
(31:03):
but they look like they just had their hair done
during me Like it's like that fox, you know, that
box is going to a hairdresser. It's like there's the fox,
like the tail. You're like, come on, you're too effect
me to believe you live in a hole. You live
in a hole in your tail looks like that, you know.
I mean, there's got to be conditioner or something that
(31:24):
you're using. You know. I was wondering, was it just
like muscle memory from eighth grade that you're gardening with?
But clearly you're like investigating YouTube and diving into things
like what are some of the things that you geek
out over? I geeked out over, uh, you know how
my wife would pretend to be impressed or you know,
I would post on social media like what my harvest was.
(31:46):
And sometimes I would post because we're in essentially quarantine,
and I would occasionally go to a carding store, but
I would ask for feedback online from people. I'm like,
is this what do I do wrong? Here? And there's
a there's a resourcefulness and a generosity from other gardeners.
(32:06):
They're like, you know what, put that on a shelf
for a week, It'll be fine, you know. And some
of this stuff I feel like maybe I knew or
I would hear my mom talk about it. But I've
been just thinking of like jokes about being lazy for
the past thirty years, so I haven't remembered it, but
I geek out about how it's all connected. How you know.
(32:26):
It's like if you get ladybugs, they'll deal with the
avids and you know, uh, and some of it I
haven't implemented, but like the you plant things near each
other to help protect them. How people will plant. But
there's there's so much to know, uh that it's it's
(32:49):
really fun. But I'm still at the point where I
will plant things in my herb garden. I'm like, I
don't even know what that is. And someone are coming
to go, you're growing mint, and I'm like, yeah, I
am growing mint. It's like I didn't know or and
it's not like I cook a lot, so people are like, oh,
you're growing basil. I want to make my own pesto,
(33:11):
and I'll be like, I can make pesto from that.
It's really dumb. I actually saw online that you didn't
just stick to those raised beds. You actually expanded and
create a second garden in a corner of the back yard.
And I'm curious, how is gardening They're different from gardening
in those raised beds. Well, it is a dramatic difference
(33:34):
in that the gardening beds that I inherited from the homeowner, uh,
they had those drip coils, they had they were raised
beds that had great soil. So that soil was pretty
crummy soil. So it was there was a process of
(33:59):
trying to fix the soil. And again I'm not an
expert on it, so I would try and do things,
and then I would go off and decide to I
would read about something like all right, I'll put hay
down there or something that will retain some of the
moisture in there. And then so it was totally improvising
(34:19):
the whole way. But it was it was completely different
because I also, um, I had done this clearing, and
so I was growing stuff and then I think someone
said to me, oh, you're growing it near a pine tree,
and I was like yeah, and they're like, well, that's
a pretty that makes the soil acidic. And I was like,
(34:40):
I don't even know what that means, you know. So
there's so many puzzles in the equation, right, There's so many.
So I'm like, I can't chop down that tree, you know.
But well, and then I was like, what grows around
pine trees? Does anything? Yeah? Well what did grow? There
(35:03):
was pumpkins that bloomed but didn't fruit. But I don't
know if that's a result of me starting pumpkins too late,
which is very likely, or pumpkins can grow in acidic
so well. I know that peppers didn't work, and I
know that beans didn't work in the acidic soil. I
(35:25):
mean I was going through this exercise earlier of trying
to figure out like where in the high school hierarchy,
like various things in the backyards set who are the athletes? Yeah,
I would say tomatoes. They're like the stars of all gardens.
And I don't know if it's the functionality of them
(35:47):
that everyone likes them. Everyone likes tomatoes, whether it be
in a salad or in a marine era. But they're
also pretty. But I just feel like there's so much
They get so much attention, where as kale is like
so easy to grow. No one really wants it. It's
just it's like you're You're like, we can mix it
(36:09):
into a salad. It's it's essentially an herb or a
weed like kale, you know, was declassified from weed to
edible it feels like in the last decade. And then
I would say that there's just and then there's the
there's the frequent friends, you know, like that you spent
(36:32):
a lot of time with, which are the beans. And
then there's like I feel as though beats and carrots
are you know, those are the friends that you hung
around with maybe once or twice. Like I feel as
though there's something about the reveal of a beat or
a carrot that is it's very deceptive. I guess it's
(36:54):
you know, it's kind of like that old visual of
a man sees the back of a beautiful with long
flowing hair and then as they get up, the woman
turns and she's, you know, ninety years old. It's a
little bit like that. I mean that probably sounds horrible,
but like where you you see this huge, bushy carrot
(37:15):
plant and you pull it out and it's just this stubby,
tiny carrot or it's deformed. I don't know what I'm
doing with, Like carrots are way too hard, Like carrots
should be much easier to grow. It's like you're just
gonna give us one, you know, whereas peppers or like
an apple tree, you're like, you know, like apples are
(37:37):
It almost feels kind of silly how many apples, and
apple Tree provides like you're just like, that's that's not necessary,
do you know what I mean? It's just we're not
gonna eat this many apples, all right, Mr apple Tree,
Like just settle down. This episode is also a lot
about the relationships that are going on in your backyard
(37:57):
between like the flora and fauna and and and the
eCos them back there, and we're kind of curious what
analogy would you draw to all the layers and relationships
within your own garden. Wow. I think there's something really
fascinating about the fence around the garden because it, you know,
(38:19):
like it's a pretty white fence around these raised beds.
It feels very it's necessary the the animals would eat
the vegetables and stuff like that. But there is part
of me that's like, well that's not fair, right. It's
like it's a little cruel for the rabbits to be
able to look in and go cheese. You know, there's
food right in there, and there's plenty of food everywhere,
(38:40):
so there is I guess I feel a sense of
almost guilt at times because I know that you know,
I'm relieved that this plastic owl will somehow stop a
bird from right when the tomatoes ripe enough, it'll stop
a bird from pecking at the tomato. But there is
(39:01):
part of me it's like, well, yeah, they I could
give them some of them. I mean, yeah, completely. So
I guess one of the questions we're wondering about is
when you look out in the back like, what really
inspires you most in the backyard undergarden. I don't know
if I can even put put to words of what it's.
(39:23):
I think it's the silence or the absence of our world.
How you can get away from the chaos of the world.
And that occurs when I'm noodling around the garden. It's
probably what I imagine people that run long distance and there,
(39:48):
like I look at joggers that aren't listening to anything.
I'm like, that's crazy, you know, But that's what I
experience in that quiet time in the garden. It's it's
I guess peace. Yeah. I like going out to the
garden because then there are these times when there's going
(40:12):
to be a surprise. There's you know that garden. You
know that pepper bloom could have turned into a little
bit of a pepper at this point, or uh, maybe
maybe I can harvest the cucumber this time. Do you
know what I mean? Because you know what there is
(40:32):
also about gardening is that there's something optimistic about a garden.
And we live in this with a certain level of cynicism.
I think the old me before I garden would have
been like, okay, you know, and there is the reality
(40:53):
is is you can go to a farmer's market and
get better vegetables than you're going to attempt to grow,
and the financial resources will be you know, if you
weigh out time value of money, it's there's no comparison.
So there is something creative and optimistic about a garden. Yeah,
(41:15):
I mean I found there's like pure optimism right, like
that you plant these seeds and expect them to grow
and whatever. But but I've also been thinking a lot
about if more people garden, will this be sort of
a more caring world? Just this whole idea of like
if you're constantly paying attention to plants and their needs
and like you make a practice of that, like will
(41:37):
that actually affect a whole generation of people? Yeah? And
you also think of as we've become more and more modern,
have we lost sight of some of these lessons that
we learn by realizing the different elements of how things
work in nature, And that I'm not saying I understand it,
but you're like, oh, you know what, I guess we
(41:58):
do need. Not that I have anything against ladybugs, but
ladybugs get rid of the a fits and and those
birds are actually good because they're protecting the plants, but
they get to eat some of them and so. And
I do also think that the first hand experience with composting,
which again the old man would have been like like
(42:19):
my last year, my wife had a compost on our
roof with my kids, and I remember I never went
up and saw it. I remembering that's great, honey, great
doing the composting, And that first hand experience with composting.
When you witness, you know, quality soil being created, it
(42:43):
changes things, right, you have an understanding and when you're
growing things, you you appreciate the importance of quality soil.
So it all kind of feeds into things. Not that
you know, like if I'm on vacation or like we're
ever going to be able to do that again, but
if I'm in a certain place I'm not looking at
the sho is decent soil, but you're mindful of Oh,
(43:07):
this would be good, a good area to grow something. Well,
thank you so much for being on this program. We
really really appreciate your time. Thanks so much, it was
so fun. Welcome to Pollination Station. So I learned earlier
(43:31):
from Molly that despite the deceptive marketing behind butterfly bushes,
they actually do very little to bring butterflies to your yard.
So I decided I needed a quick lesson on how
to encourage pollinators to come to the garden. Pollinators are
obviously important because they encourage reproduction and plants. Plus, over
(43:51):
the food we consume, it's actually distributed by these helpful friends.
Here are four tricks to bring pollinators to your yard.
Plant native plants. This sounds obvious, but growing more native
plants is a must do. Over time, pollinators have co
evolved alongside native plants, so your job is to continue
(44:13):
that chain and not disruptive. And if you keep native
plants growing, it won't be long before you have bees
and hummingbirds showing up at the party too. Garden a rainbow.
Everyone wants a beautiful, colorful garden. That's full of flowers, right, Well,
it turns out so do pollinators, especially bees. Planting different
(44:34):
colored flowers attracts bees to your garden, and once they're there,
they will get to work. Throw some herbs in there.
Planting a herb garden may seem like a no brainer
to give an herbaceous lift to your dinners, but it's
also an easy way to attract bumble bees. And while
basil and rosemary are helpful in getting more pollinators over,
(44:56):
they're non native, so supplement them with lots of native buddies.
Put in a bird bath. People don't often think about it,
but bird bats are a super helpful way to keep
a water source close by. You can also create a
basin for rain, which will attract butterflies and birds, and
that'll keep your pollination station up and running. That's it
(45:34):
for today's episode. Don't forget whether you're a beginner like me,
a pro trying something new, or someone in between enjoying
your backyard garden, they are incredible resources waiting for you
on the Miracle Grow website. Next time on our show,
we'll be diving into the world of garden fitness, talking
to experts on how to take advantage and burn some calories,
(45:55):
all while tending to your plants. If you like what
you heard, don't forget to rain and review a show
on Apple Podcast. Also, we want to hear from you.
What are your inspiring plant stories, relatable struggles or growing questions.
Tag us in your post or tweet using the hashtag
Humans Growing Stuff, and don't be surprised if you hear
your story featured on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff
(46:18):
is a collaboration from I Heart Radio and your friends
at Miracle Grow. Our show was written and produced by
Molly Sosha and me Mongy Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia,
Daniel Ainsworth, Hayley Ericsson, and Garrett Shannon of Banter Until
Next Time. Thanks so much for listening.
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