Gringo's Guide To: Authenticity In Corporate America w/ Carlos Sanchez

Dramos is joined by VP of Groupe Media and Inclusive Buying Solutions at Publicis Groupe Carlos Sanchez to discuss the world of advertising, Latino's being largely ignored by brands and media, remaining authentic while working in corporate America and more!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Let me talk about talk.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Here we go, he said, he live in life pasic
ringo where you questioned where you fit in every time
you mingle, they say you do this with not of that,
this life lingo.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yes, Hello and welcome to another episode of Life as
a Gringo. I am dramas of course and man exciting
show today.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
I recorded this.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Episode a few weeks back. We held it for today's guest,
who I met around the end of last year. So
our guest today is Carlo Sanchez. He's the VP at
a a large agency called Publicist Group.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I believe I'm pronouncing that correctly, Polis Group.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
They do a lot of advertising for very big brands,
and I spoke on a panel for them towards the
end of last year, myself as well as the heads
of the Michael Thuda podcast network. We just spoke on
a panel kind of talking about the diversity of the
Latin audience and you know, sort of some of the
outdated practices that have been put in place as far

(01:19):
as advertising goes and lack thereof advertising right and we
held this conversation. Shout out to Carlos. His mother is
not in great health right now, and I believe that
today is her birthday, so we wanted to celebrate her
and drop it on her birthday. So I recorded this

(01:41):
a few weeks back, maybe been a month ago at
this point, just a little behind the scenes here. I
like to be open and honest with y'all, and I'm
really excited.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
About this conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
To be honest, I wasn't sure what we're going to
get into exactly when when I first sort of met
up with Carlos, virtually after we met in person initially.
And I just think the idea of of advertising is
really interesting. And I know the word advertising sounds incredibly dirty.
Marketing sounds incredibly dirty. But the reality is, you know,
a lot of the commercials we see, a lot of

(02:10):
the marketing we see sort of dictates a lot of
the spending habits.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
We have a lot of the cultural and societal norms.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know, we'll talk about this a bunch of the interview,
but from what is now considered like the standard American breakfast,
that's a result of an advertising campaign, right, And it's
really interesting when we talk about We've talked about Hollywood
and it's sort of lack of representation and not speaking
to a Latin audience, but also advertising, right has really

(02:40):
sort of traditionally not spoken to us or half assed
spoken to us, or sort of thought about the trickle
down effect that you know, we would just sort of
buy what's thrown at us, right. And I think, as
with anything else, when you are not a part of
the conversation, you are often forgotten about, right. And I
think it's important to always be a part part of
the conversation, regardless of if it's you know, in Hollywood

(03:03):
and media and whatever, you know, the arts and advertising
like we're talking about today. It's it's important to be
seen and to be heard and to be spoken to.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's the way we truly get results that we can
be proud of at the end of the day. And listen,
we are spending our hard earned money and we are
one of the largest growing, you know, ethnic groups with
some of the highest spending power collectively, we do deserve
to be spoken to directly. And that's an interesting conversation

(03:34):
to talk to Carlos and hear about some of the norms.
But also I think what the conversation turned into and
you'll hear that as we kind of go about the
interview and just sort of seeing where it goes. It
turned into a really great example of authenticity, but a

(03:56):
bit different than the way that I showcase mine or
speak about mine or live my life, right because I
don't operate within a corporate structure.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I've sort of rebelled.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Against the system and you know, gone down a completely
opposite path. But I was inspired and really excited to
sort of talk to Carlos and and hear his story
and to see him especially.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
We'll get into all this throughout the conversation.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
I don't want to ruin it, but he is somebody
who found a way to work within a corporate environment
and not sacrifice his authenticity but instead show up as
as somebody who you know, grew up in in some
rougher circumstances, right and and you know, and and.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Speaks like maybe people like you've.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Grown up with, or you you you have hung out with,
or like yourself, you know, and and in a way
that's very relatable to much of our culture, but found
a way to not have to sacrifice himself to be
successful in the corporate environment. And I think this is huge,
and it's something that I don't touch on enough, but
I think is incredibly important when you're able to do so, because,

(05:14):
as with anything, I think the greatest change is oftentimes
going to come from inside, right, It's going to come
from the people in those buildings, in those offices at
the executive level, to open their mind or to change
the norms, and that begins to.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Usher in a new era of corporate culture. Right.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
And oftentimes our community, communities of color have been left
out of the conversation of corporate culture, particularly at the
executive level. But somebody like Carlos to have an executive
title and to be able to show up authentically as
himself and to then empower other people from our community
to do the same, you know, under his umbrella, I

(05:55):
think really speaks to you know, just I guess the
progress that's been made in this world, but also understanding
your unique gift and that your otherness really is such
an asset to you, even in an environment where you
don't see yourself normally. And that's kind of what I
want to leave it acause I don't want to ruin

(06:15):
too much of the conversation. But again, I think so
much of this conversation we hear about imposter syndrome or
oftentimes why people hate their jobs because they feel like
they have to hide who they truly are in order
to do that job, because of.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Societal norms, because of corporate norms.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
And I am really inspired to hear somebody like Carlos
and to see somebody like Carlos operating at a high
level and working for a very large, reputable global brand
in his field, but not having to sacrifice himself in
the process, right, and also not only not even having
to sacrifice himself, but also his sort of background being

(06:54):
viewed as not just acceptable but actually as an asset
for the company's growth, which I think is incredible. And again,
it just showcases a whole nother angle to this conversation
around authenticity that I'm so much a proponent of. And
I'm really happy, you know, where the conversation went to

(07:15):
bring it in that sort of full circle kind of
moment of you know, being able to operate within the structured,
you know, walls of maybe corporate America, but finding a
way to create change and not lose yourself in the process.
And I think there's something beautiful about that, right, because
not everybody has to go down my path. This isn't

(07:37):
for everybody, right, Some people do actually like the work
that they do. They do like the corporate structure. They
just wish they were able to maybe show up a
little bit more authentically. And I think that's who somebody
like Carlos is able to speak to and touch that
I can't, Right, So that's why I love sharing these
different perspectives on the show. So I'm excited about that.
I'll stop babbling now. I just kind of wanted this
hit the tone for the conversation that we had no

(07:58):
asking getting go on today's We're just Gonna do well.
Longhent that segment, I think we touched on a lot
of different things here, from advertising norms in the past
to corporate America to you know, cultural buying habits norms,
and and you know where media is going, just technology,

(08:19):
social media, all types of different things, creator economy, like
whatever you're sort of into. I just think it's an
interesting conversation to sort of see what's happening around us
in the current climate, where media is changing, where technology
is advancing at this incredibly rapid pace, and maybe have
an insight into what you know, the future may look

(08:39):
like for.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Us as consumers, us as creators. Whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
That you participated I just think it's interesting. So we'll
get to that. So without further ado, let's get into
today's interview via our Mehente segment.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
My guest today is the VP.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Of Group Media and Inclusive Buying Solutions at Publicists Group.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
My guy, Carlos sad Chance. How you feeling.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
I'm feeling great, brother, I'm feeling great. Great to be
with you, great to be here, and you know, just
really excited and pumped to talk about you know, media
in a different lens and also just my lived experience,
you know, as a multicultural person.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Man, I'm excited to kind of break this down because
I think it's a it's a different topic than I've
had on the podcast before. Obviously, you deal very much
so in the world of like advertising, and I think
people don't sort of realize the impact that advertising has
on our day to day lives, you know, whether it's
in the background, whether it's culturally buying habits, all these

(09:47):
different things that have become norms of communities.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Advertising is very much at the core of a lot
of it.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
So let's kind of start a bit with with what
you do exactly. You know, what exactly is Publicist Group
and what is kind of your role over there.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Sure sure, So Publicis group Is is a media holding company.
Essentially we as it pertains to advertising.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
We represent one of the largest, uh in fact, the
largest UH holding company in the world in terms of media.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Right.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
So we're a global company. Uh. We are headquartered out
of Paris, but are you know? Global footprint is massive,
and particularly here in the US. So the way that
I think about explaining it to people in a very
you know, simple way is whenever you're consuming media of
any kind of TV, radio, print, social, whatever, right, and

(10:41):
you see an ad for a brand, you were to
add up all those dollars in the world, we represent
about a dollar fifty out of every three dollars that
are sold in media in the world, and it's actually
two out of every three in the US. So you know,
if you think about that, right, think about as a
podcast listener, anytime you're hearing any plugs, any you know,

(11:07):
specific advertising moments and segmentation, we're representative of two out
of every three of those dollars here in the US.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
You to contextualize it, right, right, Yeah, that's uh.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
So you're you guys are are behind uh, you know,
majority of these ads that we're hearing running or commercials
or prayer or media things like that that are happening exactly.
So I mean, what what exactly then are you your
role specifically like I obviously okay, so I am let's
say for the sake of example, Starbucks, right, and I
want to reach out to you guys and use your services.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
What do you guys provide? Is that the creative? Is it?
The analytics is it?

Speaker 4 (11:45):
You know?

Speaker 1 (11:45):
All that? What exactly is it?

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Man? We as a holding company are full service shops.
So all those things you mentioned, everything from production to
creative to media strategy and investment right analytics. Uh, you know,
we are a home to one of the largest kind
of data companies in the space, right, which is Epsilon.
We are able to, you know, provide those consultative services

(12:10):
through another element of our businesses called popas's safety it.
So as an organization, man, we encapsulate all of these
different areas that any media client, any big blue chip
client you know, would want to have, right. And you know,
my specific role in that has changed over time, but
currently what I'm responsible for doing is helping to grow

(12:32):
businesses specific three, specifically through in house created inclusive solutions, right.
And I also sit on a team that's designed to
help grow and advance these businesses broadly through our own
products that we've created internally, and I'm responsible for helping
the development and advancement specifically of inclusive products. So I

(12:54):
know that's kind of like a mouthful, but like if
you were to think about it, I'm helping brands expand
their footprint with the fastest growing audience, right. And if
you look at twenty twenty census results, it's indicative of
almost one hundred percent of the growth in this country
is specifically from multicultural audiences, right, And I'm responsible for
helping these brands get a better understanding of how they

(13:17):
can tap in and win with these audiences now, right, right,
because the future tomorrow is really predicated on what we
do today.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Sure, sure, yeah, And this is how you and I
met was there was a panel at the.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Purposes offices in New York.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, and I was speaking on specifically to I guess
like Latin, the Latin audience, and talking about from the
podcasting standpoint, our audience, and you know, how we've been
able to connect with them and success projects with you know,
partnerships and things like that. Sure, and this obviously, like
these are all really fun buzzwords like inclusivity and all

(13:50):
these different things. What exactly does that mean in Layman's
terms for the average person.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Yeah, you know it when you think about words like
inclusivity and these kind of buds words that are thrown
around in our industry. You know, what I'm really helping
brands do is get a better understanding of the consumer
audience and most importantly, helping them create moments of connection.

(14:18):
How do we connect with these audiences and and and consumers?
I'll say, right, like, you think of brands that are
our legacy brands, right, you know what they meant at
one point in time in the fifties, Right, I'll just
pick on you know, Tide for example. Right, Like, what
some of these old traditional brands represented at one point
in time is very different than what they represent.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right now, right.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
And what I'm responsible for doing is helping brands understand
this fast growing, multifaceted, multi generational, multicultural audience and helping
them get a better understanding of what are important to
these audiences, how connection can be created and established, most importantly,
maintained an authentic way with these audiences, right, because you know,

(15:03):
whether it's Pride, whether it's you know, you know Black
History Month, you know, Hispanic Characters Month, Like all of
these anchor moments are are monetizable moments, right, hypothetic. Right,
we see brands all over the country and the globe
try to monetize these moments. I'm responsible for helping them
understand the other eleven months, the other three hundred and

(15:25):
sixty four days, right that aren't you know, Women's History Day,
like these types of things. I'm responsible for helping them
understand how to really win in the sense of speaking authentically,
connecting authentically, and really helping to provide a new perspective
on a product that might have aged out with a
certain demographic, right, like that might have changed over time

(15:46):
with the demographic, and helping them understand, you know, this
is what's important, and this is how we need to
be speaking and doing it in a way that's simple
but connective.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
All right, So much want to get into with Carlos.
I'm gonna pause here, We'll take a quick break, and
then we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
All right, we are back, and.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Let's zoom out a little bit in terms of the
Latin audience.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
This is what I find to be kind of interesting
about the conversation at hand, is because the Latin community
is so incredibly diverse. You mentioned also generationally there's different
habits within generations and it's not just a problem for
brands being able to reach them. And we see it
in politics, right. Politicians have traditionally been terrible at speaking

(16:35):
to the Latin audience and figuring out what exactly is
the touch points for different sectors.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Of it, right, And.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
You guys have the sort of means and time to
actually really get down in the nitty gritty of statistics,
right and really break down things in a way that
you can really kind of figure out what is sort
of the touch points for every sector of the Latin community.
So I think, a what, what do you think companies

(17:06):
and brands have traditionally gotten wrong about the Latin community?
And what now with all the work you're doing, have
been some of the more eye opening things you've noticed
about habits within our community and what's actually moving the
needle man.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Great question. I think one of the things I've seen
brands get wrong is regardless of whatever demographic it is,
I think currently a lot of brands are operating under
false pretense or preconceived notions or stereotypes, and particularly with
the Latin American audience, the US Hispanics, I think what

(17:44):
happens a lot is bias, right, whether it's data bias
or implied stereotypes. A lot of what we're seeing and
this is how we met and how we really connected. Yeah,
thinking about the things that are important to this generation,
right this you know, you know, second and third generation

(18:06):
Hispanic what is important to them is very different than
what was important to their parents or their grandparents. And
what I see a lot of brands doing wrong across
the board, not not necessarily just a bubosys, but in general,
is they're operating under assumptions that are riddled in cultural bias.
Thinking that US Hispanics are all the same. Right, you know,

(18:29):
you and I are are representative of the Caribbean population. Right,
you think that you're gonna, you know, have this big
opportunity with us in soccer. That's probably a miss, Right,
That's probably a miss. You need to be thinking baseball, right,
And so what I see brands doing wrong is operating
from this place of stereotyping, whether it be generational or

(18:50):
cultural stereotyping. And I think that, you know, one of
the things that you said on the panel when we
first met was you listen to bad money as much
as you listen to drakeh right. And some of these
traditional things that have worked in the past are no
longer going to work in the future because of this
multi generational evolution of the modern you know, us Hispanic

(19:12):
or Latin Americans, you know. And I think that as
we are here to help inform brands get that right,
we need to help them reinvestigate, reinquire, reconnect with what
is important. Stop coming from this place of this is
what traditionally works. So this is what we'll do again.
And when you think about big brands in general, right, like,

(19:33):
they don't necessarily move the quickest. That's why we see
so many examples across the board of them getting it wrong.
And what needs to happen is representation in those rooms
and also young voices in those rooms, right, the folks
who are actually representative of this growth. Because without doing that,
you're going to continue to make these these mistakes. So
I'd say, to answer your question in a quick, concise way,

(19:57):
brands need to help themselves understand that the audience they're
trying to connect with is evolving, and that means they
might have to go back to a drawing board and
rethink things. And that's okay, and I welcome that, whether
it's from the products that I create or the solutions
I help inform them. Use is all designed around authenticity

(20:18):
and also designed around connection, right, And if you fail
in either one of those places, those brands are the
ones who won't have the staying power that they once have.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, and it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I like what you said about having those actual voices
in the room, right, not not just speaking on behalf
of them, but actually having members of that community in
there to sort of, you know, be able to facilitate
the ideas and you know, sort of be as authentic
as possible.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
And I think, you know, you could probably speak this
better than I can.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
But I also feel like we're in a generation where
people are a little bit more smarter with their dollar.
They want to know where it's going, they want to
know that the brand they're supporting with their money.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Actually gives a shit and isn't just placating them.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
And that's what I feel like, from you know, just
being a normal personality, I'm assuming if the data if it,
you know, kind of correlates with that.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, I mean, and and one
of the big things that I spend time doing is
helping brands understand don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Right.
A lot of times brands will again because they're moving slow,
trying to have a home run. And sometimes a base

(21:30):
hit is just as good, you know, sometimes sometimes walk
taking a walk at the plate is just as good
as making contact. Right. And in a nonsports world, hey, man,
like being able to to think about contextually relevant things, right,
relevant content, having the ability to support in this three

(21:51):
sixty five approach, those are the key moments, man, because
people pick up on it. Right Again, I use examples earlier.
These communities that are marginalized know that they're also being monetized. Sure, yeah,
so it's not a secret anymore. Right, Like everybody who's
just a random scroller on TikTok knows that there's an

(22:13):
algorithm there, right, Like, it's not a secret anymore. Everybody
understands these things now to some degree. Right. But what
we need to help mitigate is people feeling people feeling
that their identities are being commoditized right being exploited, And

(22:34):
and the way that you do that as a brand
is making sure that you're supporting them throughout the year,
making sure that every day is treated just as important
as you know, Blackstory Month is in February, or you know,
Pride is in June. So like, when you think about
these things, you can help a brand create a legacy

(22:59):
moment by authentically making sure that we're in the space
that we deserve to plan. And when I said not
letting perfect be the enemy of good, sometimes that means
that you have to just start. And sometimes that means
you just have to break inertia, and that means that hey,
like yeah, typically you know, Lunar New Year is something
we put one piece of creative out for, but we

(23:19):
don't really talk to our AAPI community beyond that. Maybe
we just start to incorporate some of the contextually relevant
things that we know that that audience consumes. Maybe we
just start. And that is what I try to help
brands understand is that you can finish with the home run.
But all of that is really starting with how you
show up in practice and how you show up day

(23:40):
to day. You can't just think that your first time
at the plate, you're going to crush it. And I
think that brands have big commitments, big spend, big visibility
and also hesitancy, right like, they don't want to get
it wrong. And that's fair. And that's why again, to
the representation in the room is so important. You need
to empower those within your organization who can help not
necessarily speak on half of the whole community, that helped

(24:01):
contextualize a perspective of that community, right because it's not
fair to ask one person to represent millions of people.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I think I also kind of want to like speak
to the power and importance of advertising because obviously.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
You know, it is about money as well.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
But I think what people don't necessarily also realize is
the advertising has affected our daily life, you know, from
you know, for generations, right since since the booming you
know of advertising right where you have you know, like
even the American breakfast was is the product of an
advertising campaign, right Like, what we know as a normal

(24:41):
American breakfast was a product of a great advertising campaign
that eventually just became normal life for all of us.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Absolutely, And when we.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Talk about inclusion and visibility, The reason why white stories
have been deemed universal is because hollywo What has put
out movies that are the blockbuster movies that are white stories, right,
And we don't question it because that's been the norm.
Those are the majority of the stories we're seeing on
television in commercials. The people we're seeing commercials traditionally we're

(25:12):
white people, so we don't quite like all of this
together has made us even think that white stories are
universal and ours are niche, right, And that's all a
product of media and advertising and who's been in charge
and pulling the strings, and on a larger level, things
like what you work on begin to change that landscape

(25:32):
where it becomes more normal to see a you know,
a couple who identifies as LGBTQ plus at a commercial,
or a Latin family as the you know, centerpiece of
a Coca Cola commercial as opposed to a white family, right,
And that begins to I think also subconsciously change the
mindset of society as a whole. It normalizes all of

(25:55):
us in our differences and doesn't make it feel so
weird to sort of see us out in.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
It's now all just normal, you know, general stories.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
And I think that's what sort of a lot of
people miss about the power of advertising beyond just the
dollars and cents part of it.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It normalized because because
here's the thing, right, if you think about growing buying power, right,
diverse audiences have an increasingly exponential amount of buying power.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Right.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
I mean, we've talked about census growth is represented majority
by diverse audiences, which means obviously their buying power is
directly connected to growth, right. And I think what we're
what we're starting to see is as we have multi
generational Latin communities grow, that means that their consumption from

(26:48):
a consumer standpoint, from a financial, you know, health standpoint,
all these things are also going to change. And I
think that what we also need to account for in
these advertising campaign means is is, yeah, like there is
some historical exclusionary practices, and I think what we're finding

(27:10):
from a creative standpoint, that's starting to change. But what
has it changed is content wise, diverse content creators, whether
it's musicians from back in the day to you know,
the current climate now, it's actually culture is driven by us.
We drive the culture forward. And what we're starting to

(27:30):
see change is having that be the focus of the creative,
having that be the focus of the narrative. And what
I think is beautiful about it, because you talked about
the money behind advertising. What's beautiful about that is the
dollars are now going to help endorse, support and build

(27:51):
those content creators up. So the dollars are moving from
these big conglomerate to conglomerate to empowering the influencer to
empower these other people. And what we try to do
and our organization is making sure that there's equity in
that right, making sure there's equity in the payment turn,
making sure we're bringing equity in how we show up
in the marketplace, and helping brands that understand that there

(28:12):
is intrinsic bias that's in the marketplace that has been
there historically, and how do we help correct that is
by calling it out and moving forward with it right
and being able to help empower these people. So I
think there's multiple things that are happening right, breaking down
the stereotypes and silos of who should be represented, what
does normal look like, and then also understanding with that

(28:36):
change in norms the empowerment that comes with it from
a community standpoint, right, and building and creating more generational
wealth opportunities within a community that's been historically not moving
as quickly as others, right comparatively.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, no, And and even to your point, someone
like yourself having a job, right, like that you are
now employed because of how valuable the information you have
to speak on heavier community. And then it's employing a
team of other people who are multicultural, you know, who
are marginalized people. So like, it's the money is now
going back into the hands of these communities, right, And

(29:15):
the more we sort of make our voices heard with
our spending power and things like that, the more they're
going to reinvest into into our community as well.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
And the more these these sort of programs or the
teams that you have grow, and the more people get
employed and things like that. So I think it's you know,
it's it's easy to sort of write all of this
off as superficial money, capitalism, corporation, blah blah blah, but
I think there are are and obviously there's parts of that,

(29:46):
there's aspects of it, but sure, I think also when
you're seeing more people that look like you and I
in a workforce that traditionally that wasn't the norm.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
That is real change happening.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
You know, when people like yourself are moving up into
executive roles, that is a change happening, right, the correct
the that that just continues to rise and rise until
eventually these aren't really even conversations we necessarily have to
have anymore. But this is great substantial change as a
as a you know, result of of you know, companies
sort of recognizing our buying power, and it does kind

(30:20):
of trickle down now into us being empowered in a way.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
Yeah, and and it trickles down through you know, I
mentioned creators, content creators, but like you know, when we
met at the Ones in for All coalition, like the
whole purpose of that coalition is designed to empower not
just the content creators, but the diverse owned companies, the
diverse targeted companies, the entire ecosystem. Right, And so you know,
working with folks who are diverse but creating new innovative

(30:46):
products and empowering them and and and putting those products
in front of big blue ship brands and impart in
in part supporting and investing in them from our own
you know perspective as an organist. You know, the way
I can think about it is, who as if you
sold widgets, right, and you're a diverse company owner and you,

(31:07):
you know, are trying to sell you as many widgets
as possible, but then a Walmart comes around, right, or
some other big blue chip you know, retailer comes around,
is like, hey, we'll give you a distribution deal. Do
you know how empowering that is for that diverse widget creator? Like,
that's what we do. We help empower these folks and
get into positions like that, right, like that analogy and

(31:28):
help making sure that not only are we empowering them
in a one to one capacity, to make sure their
voice and their visibility is expanded, and that, to your point,
brings more light and visibility into the ecosystem. And you know,
for people like myself to be in an organization where
you know, I can authentically be myself and show up
how I want to show up, and that my voice
is heard, right, the quality of my character is is

(31:49):
not compromised by me being in a corporate environment. In fact,
is welcomed. Right Because one of the things I've heard
you say and one of the things that I have
said myself in a different way is around your uniqueness
and authenticity. Right. So I was with a buddy and
you know, we're we're having a couple couple of cold

(32:11):
ones and weird as you know, he's in the industry
as well, and we were just you know, shooting the
shit and kind of just talking, and I was like, man,
you know what I think is the most important thing
our people need to understand, regardless of what industry they're in,
but particularly in corporate environments, is your uniqueness makes you dope.
That's what makes you dope. So sell that dope. Sell

(32:33):
your dope, you know what I mean, Like, that's your
dope to be sold that no one can replicate, no
one can create. It's your custom chemistry, it's your own
unique formula. It's your Coca cola, it's your pepsi coo,
it's your you. Only you can sell it, only you
can use it. And I find often we minimize that
sometimes for whether it's to acclimate, right, to assimilate any

(32:58):
of these other things, sometimes we tone our uniqueness down.
And I think that you know, you talk about sell
your authenticity and in a certain way and or own it,
or you know, keep that uniqueness to yourself. I'm saying, hey, man,
you're dope. You're a dope person. You have a dope experience,
a lived experience that only you can articulate sell that
dope man, not in the sense of actually like narcotic.

(33:21):
What's dope about you? Is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, No, of course, man, Yeah, I think I think
that's what so many people has That's what has held
so many people back from really doing the things that
they want to do, is because they fear making that
leap and they don't realize that like all that they've
been searching for is literally right there, righty, like within themselves.
You know, they're dude. I mean there's some like especially

(33:44):
with the beauty of the Internet, for all of its faults,
it is allowed you to find your community, whatever the
fuck that looks like for you, right whatever you're unique,
no matter how weird, obscure, off the you know, beaten
path it is, you can find the like minded individuals.
And if you are you know, somebody who is a creator,
you can be the leader of that community. You can

(34:06):
be a person of influence in that community as long
as you take that that step. And that's the beauty
of sort of the modern era, and I think, you
know what I'm excited about when I sort of see,
you know, the current landscape, and there's a lot to
be you know, a little bit sad about when you
think of current social media norms and things like that.

(34:27):
But I do think we're moving away from the traditional
look at me perfect lifestyle bullshit of of old social
media and the sort of current wave is literally people
want real, raw and honest connection and I guess that
is something that is incredible to kind of see that
growth happening now currently, you know, with the younger generation

(34:50):
I think, and just being the new social media norm Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
No, I mean I think I think even in like
I believe it's called like the gen Z shake right
where it's like when they start their content like they
don't have but just like pre SI. Yeah, Like, I
think that's that's their own spin on it, and I
think that's really cool. You know. I think that the
art of staging has taken an incredible like leap to
an unhealthy place in some respects. It removes is just

(35:17):
like it removes the realness, right, as you said. And
one of the things you said, man just really really
relates to me, and it's part of part of my story.
You said something about looking for something in someone else
that's already within you. And you know, our stories are
our authentic tribulations and hurdles that come with with being

(35:41):
members of our community. Being members of people who have
been marginalized. Comes pain, man, it comes hurt, and and
comes tenacity and grit and and and you know, character
and all those things. And one of the things that
you just said on that topic, you know, reminds me of,
you know, my cousin, you know, one of my best friends, Rip,

(36:03):
and he told me, you know, at a young age,
when I was in college, to not look within the
next person for what's already within myself. You know, maybe
a little more colorful language is how he would have
described it, but basically he said, don't look in the
next person for what's already within you. And I was
at this time in my life where I was trying
to figure out my way right and I didn't necessarily

(36:26):
have like this quintessential story of you know, having a
ton of people who could expose me to what I
should be thinking about in college and what I should
be thinking about after college. You know, the narrative was
go to school, go to school, go to school, or
I'll say that get in school, get in school, getting
to me, back to school. Then it's go to school,
go to school, finish, finish, and then the advice runs out.

(36:46):
Then it's like, well, why didn't you figure this out?
And I'm like, well, I did everything you said. I
got in and I went and I finished, and now
what And they're like, well, we don't have any answers
for that. I thought you would have figured that out
by now. And at the time in which this particular
story came to my life, which I was kind of
conflicted with trying to understand how to adapt to a

(37:07):
new version of myself, how to create and lean into
the best version of myself, and without going into too
too much gritty detail, basically, you know, I was used
to being around a different crowd. That crowd might not
be in the spaces and places I am now, right,

(37:27):
not that they couldn't be, not that they weren't capable of,
but maybe just priorities were a little bit different, right,
would you say it that way? And I was trying
to understand how do I balance this more urban version
of myself with this college version of myself. And you

(37:48):
know what my man, Marcellus Treel Bailey told me was, hey, man, like,
don't look for something within someone else that's already within you.
All of the keys to your best self are basically
within you, and you have to figure that out and
be comfortable with that. And you don't have to prove
anything to anyone either way. Right, It's like when keeping
it real goes wrong, Like I feel like we all

(38:08):
struggle with that, you know, keeping it real and what
does that mean? And living by a code or a
creed that means so much in our community but maybe
nothing in another community, and people will live and die
by that creed for better or for worse. And I
feel like at that moment in time, for me, it
was a moment in which I realized what he was saying,
and it didn't fully fully resonate with me until after

(38:29):
he passed, right and his life was taken from him.
So you know, it was a moment for me of
understanding my dope and trying to figure out how to
accelerate my ability to utilize it was my next mission,
but that time was very important for me.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Man, all right, I'm gonna take another quick pause here,
will take a quick break and then we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
All right, we are.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Back, so kind of backtracking to when I was speaking
on that panel. You know, I've done a few different things.
You never really know what to expect when you're going
into into those things. I always expect worst case scenarios,
something like I'm gonna have to convince a bunch of
rich white people why they should care about my community,
you know what I'm saying. And I went in there
and seeing people like yourself showing up authentically, you know,

(39:24):
you got the braids, you know what I'm saying, Like
like you look like somebody I could have grown up
with or that I knew, or a cousin or something
like that. And seeing you in that environment but still
being you. For me, it was inspiring to feel like, man,
like you know, there is some good change actually happening.
Because I'm always of the mindset like just burn everything

(39:45):
down and we're gonna have to rebuild type of thing. Right,
But but I think I think everybody has a different path.
And to see you be able to sort of operate
within the system quote unquote, but not have to off
yourself to do it, I think he's incredibly inspiring. And
I think, you know, for anybody who is not necessarily

(40:08):
you know whatever, Like if you're not a creator, you know,
in the traditional sense, you're not gonna put a camera
front of your face. You have other creative skills and
things like that, Like, there are other pathways for you.
And I think, you know, there's a lot of value
in I think redefining those environments as well.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Right.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
I think as much as I'm always just like fuck them,
there's there is an incredible amount of value in redefining
it in the same way somebody like Virgil did with
Louis Vuitton and now Pharrell, right where it's like, man,
these traditional luxury houses, you know, fashion houses that were
all white. Now who look, who's their creative director and
is making them relevant again?

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Right?

Speaker 2 (40:43):
It's a black man, you know, so like so and
now that changes everything, Right, that that like changes that
entire elitist world that loves Louis Vaton now has to
open their mind to what is cool and what is
acceptable and what is high quality. Right, And That's what
I think somebody like you was doing in your space.
And I'm curious in sort of that transition of not

(41:06):
knowing what the hell you wanted to do? And maybe
even the pull of the old life, like what was
so beyond you know, kind of that that those words
from your your friend, what was kind of the mindset
that kind of got you into gear into like going
down this lane and embracing the traditional route but doing
it in your own way.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
You know it. It was a journey. It was a journey.
And and you know, just like I said earlier, I
had to not let perfect be the enemy a good
And I was trying to figure out how could I
use my non you know, traditional creative creativity in a

(41:48):
unique way. And I've always been a resourceful person, you know,
a self reliant person and always been creative prom solver.
And I was like, I see so much right when
you look at you know, whether it's hustling loose squares
or selling mixtapes back in the day, right, Like the
creativity that it goes into taking these unique entrepreneurial passes

(42:12):
are exhibiting the community, right, They're not traditional, but they're there.
And seeing those types of things spark my mind of
you know, why you're not selling enough mixtapes is because
you're not marketing yourself, right, And I always had this
knack for understanding how to market something and how to
differentiate in a marketplace. And you know, in school, in college,

(42:34):
you know, going to to you know, kind of traditional
comms route and kind of you know, staying in that lane.
I tried my hand at production and it was cool,
but it wasn't me. And then I found, by opportunity,
by happenstance, an opportunity here in Chicago. And and you know,
I'm originally from Floridas, is a long way from home
and getting up here and took a role in one
of the first h AI driven programmatic demand side platforms

(43:01):
or DSPs that had ever even ipo' right, like one
of the first of the first and that's where I
kind of like really got my introduction to corporate America. Now,
if you grow up where I grew up in Florida,
you know, went to college in Miami and all that
good stuff, you know, that is a completely different world.
And what the corporate world looks like there is representative
of that population. You get into different environments in different
places in the country. New York, LA, Chicago is going

(43:23):
to be very different than Miami. And when I came
up here, I felt extremely isolated, like like an abrupt
hard stop. I was like, Wow, everything I knew to
be valued is not valued, and everything I knew to
be not valuable is valued, right, And that was like
this weird paradox where it's like everything is is reversed.

(43:45):
And I had to figure out what that looked like
for me. And I had moments of trying to be
true to the code and seeing how people responded and reacted,
and I realized, you know, I was in I was
a little bit intimidated too, right, Like I went to FIU, right, like,
that's that's that's our Miami, you know, neighborhood University, right,
Like it's it's obviously a full you know, Florida University,

(44:06):
but you know, it's a little different of a school,
and it's very multicultural. You know, there's not a lot
of white people. It's a very different experience. And coming
up here it was polar opposite. And I realized, you know,
how people interpret me is going to be very different
than how I interpret myself. And I was also intimidated
by the fact that, like, man, this guy went to Stanford,

(44:27):
this guy went to Notre Dame. But then I took
a second, and I said, wait, hold on, hold on,
but we're in the same room though. We're in the
same room though, And I was putting myself back, putting
myself you know, not down, but just like thinking about
these own self created barriers or self fulfilling prophecies. And
I went through this process of saying, you know what,

(44:49):
I'm going to course correct, maybe depends on a little
bit too hard to the right. So I was trying
to be overly corporate, and I wasn't recognizing my dope.
I wasn't recognizing how to sell it. And then when
I got into another world, another organization, I realized my
doubt and I was like, wait, my uniqueness, my value,
I can talk that talk. And that's when I realized
I was, you know, trilingual, right, like I speak English, right,

(45:09):
I speak Spanish right. And then coming up in Florida,
you know, we speak our own you know aa e right,
so like it's it's its own, you know, way of
understanding how to speak right. And so I'm like, man,
I can do all these things that these people cannot do.
They cannot do that. And I'm not capitalizing or leveraging
this at all. I need to take that forward, and

(45:30):
that's when I was like, Okay, I could still be
myself right, And I always had the dreads man like,
I never you know, I never cut them my I
was true to myself when I was incorporated and just
kept them and was figuring out how to show up.
But one of the things I tell people that I
mentored is you need to be known for what you do,

(45:51):
not known for only the things you do right. You
need to be known as as somebody outside of just
your role in your desk job, right. And I tell
them all the time, like, hey, you want to be
the best at excel because our parents told us you
need to be the best at whatever you do, whether
it's picking garbage or you know whatever, you need to
be the best at at first it and last out,
you know all that stuff. Our counterparts don't do that.

(46:14):
They don't have to do that, and they're not necessarily
thinking about things to that led Some are, for sure,
but in general they're being they're approaching this game very differently.
They're like, how am I known? What am I known for?
So being known for something is more important than being
known for doing something right. I'm known as someone who
does this and this and that and I'm having this visibility,

(46:35):
then through that comes opportunity. If you're just trying to
be the best at EXCEL, I can guarantee you or
you'll get one thing, and that's more excel, all right, right, right,
And if you want to get an opportunity to be
in these big rooms, you need to be known for
something else, right, And not to be too much into
the sports analogy, but you look at Steph Perry. One
of the things that makes his game so great is
his off the ball movement. He doesn't just sit and

(46:56):
shoot and wait for opportunities. His shot creation and what
he does when he doesn't have the ball it's more
important sometimes than what he does when he gets the ball.
And that's what I try to explain to my counterparts
and in my peers, is that guys, we need to
be empowering people to be doing more than just their
day to day role. We need to get them empowered
to be in visible to using their voice, to empower
them to know that their authenticity is a uniqueness because

(47:18):
it's representative of a populations that is the fastest growing
population in the country. Like brands cannot afford to.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Not listen to you yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, Well I love that idea of wanting to be
known for something. Can you give me like a tangible
example of what that looks like in practice?

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yeah? Absolutely. So. You know, I spent a lot of
time in the digital programmatic space, right, and so I
was on a brand that I was working on here
at Pulicus, and you know, was doing my day to
day work. And when I first got here, I didn't
pledge Greek or anything, so I didn't like have like
that connection to anything. But I saw that they had

(47:57):
these ergs and brgs when I first got to Google SYSM,
and I was just so ecstatic at the idea of
having community with people who look like me in a
space where there aren't many people who look like me.
And I was just craving and desiring that. And I
hit an aliens up, like, hey, I want to join,
How do I join? You know, I saw you in
your information in the pamphlet when I started, and I

(48:18):
want to get down. And I got a bounce back
of this alias no longer exists. That was deflating. Now.
I could have just said, you know what you know,
put on my e R boohoo, poor me, but I decided, well,
if the framework exists for this, that just means someone
needs to resurrect it. So I put this organization that

(48:39):
was called the Mental Color Lines. I put it on
my back and resurrected it and got it going and
became a market lead and then a national lead and
put together programming for seven to nine different markets at
a time and spending you know, dollars to help program
and invest into our community and into the four pillars
that are important to our organization. That's me being known

(49:01):
for something more than what I do on my day
to day. That specific opportunity almost led to a whole
career path for myself. I led. I took that and
flipped it into being the first DNI person at Star
comm Us in twenty five years of history. I wrote
my own job description, I created my own role. I
took that role as the first d and I person

(49:23):
and connected it back to my media world to be
this inclusive product. So that's me taking something that I'm
being known for outside of just my day to day
role of what I do.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, no, I that's beautiful. It resonates a lot with
me because you know, it's like I I became known
and got my sort of big break because I embraced
sort of my authentic thing of being the dude who
feels like he's an outsider in his own community.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And I could have gone the traditional route and tried
to just be a stereotypical Latin personality and really try
to hon that, or gone the other route where I'm
just speaking about hip hop stuff all the time, which
a lot of you know is kind of the norm,
especially in the New York area. But I sort of owned
this otherness and that then it makes me one of

(50:14):
the people that are always thought about when somebody is
trying to speak to that audience or has an opportunity
for or whatever it might be. Right like that, that's
my thing that I'm owning, that I'm known for. And
I think that's the power of authenticity because had I
have not done that, I would have just been another
person within the group, right, I would have been you know,

(50:34):
maybe I would have been good at what I did,
but I wouldn't have been anything that stood out. I
wouldn't have been the person that is thought of as
the first person when there's an opportunity, Right, just like yourself,
you made yourself known. It's like, oh, well, this is
the guy who's like very proactive about communities of color
within our organization. Guess what, Now we have a new initiative,
that should be the guy to lead it. Right, you
come to mind immediately because you're the one person they

(50:57):
think of.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Who's always doing something involving that.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Right, And that's the power of owning your authenticity and
and like, you know, being known for something, as you said,
because now you become top of mind when those opportunities
do eventually present themselves.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Right, being known for something is better than being known
for doing something right, Like you're just doing that thing.
And I like what you said too in terms of
the uniqueness. And again, I think that's one of the
things that you know, we initially connected on, is this
unique experience. You know, my mom is an immigrant, right,
She came here from Dominican Republic, right at sixteen years old.

(51:35):
You know, she joined the military. She did twenty five
years in the military. You know, I'm a military kid.
I moved all over. I wasn't born and raised in
one place, right, And my experience with you know, that
Latin cultural community was very different, right, And you would think, right,
with two grandparents that don't speak English at all. I

(51:56):
would have grown up in the Spanish speaking household and
I did not. English is my first language, right, but
you know, with it being my mom's second language, there
was a lot of times in which, you know, I
would be correcting her. I couldn't have her help me
with my homework on certain instances, right, because it just
wasn't there. And also, you know that uniqueness in being
connected to the United States and and and the culture

(52:19):
here and also being connected to something bigger, right and
and for me, the big profound moment was, you know,
when my mom was actually stationed in Dominican Republic, So
that was my first cultural connection with the with the
dr never been there, didn't know anything. It's like, all right,
now go to school and figure it out, right, And
I was like, whoa, And here's a funny story, right

(52:39):
for those of you who's be Spanish. Right. I came
into my first day of school. My big worry was like,
how am I going to get lunch? Like what am
I going to order at lunch? And I'm like, I
don't speak Eddie Spanish, I don't know what to do.
So dramos here's what I thought was really innovative. This
is back to me being creative in my own way.
I'm like, oh, I got it. The word up is
adiba and the world seven is see at this, So

(53:02):
I'm thinking I'm gonna get a seven up.

Speaker 5 (53:03):
So I asked them, what, bro, what are you asking
me for? But in my mind, dude, I was like, oh,
I got it.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
This is gonna get them over it. And it was
not it that, like you just mean seven up? And
I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't know
you would know that, right of course, you know that
when you think we are right, Yeah, we know that.
And and that was a moment where I got connected
with speaking Spanish. I got connected with, you know, after
a latinida African, you know, Latin identity. Being in a

(53:37):
place like Dr Dude, where you're talking about ninety percent
of that population roughly is either black or mixed, right,
identifying if you were to take that those same identities
and put it here in the US, things like one
drop of all that that's like one hundred percent black,
right and and and growing up in a place like that,
or not growing up, but living in a place like

(53:58):
that was mind changing, profound. I've never been around that
many black people I didn't understand that. You know, I
look at my grandfather. He's a black man, right, unequivocally,
undeniably in this country. Right. I look at my mom
obviously a product of him making her a black woman, right.
And then having this connection to something bigger like Latini Da.
How do these things connect? And then seeing yourself represented
in things like hip hop, but then also having to

(54:21):
dig deep into the to the crates to see Cellia Cruz,
to seal all these other people connected in in the
more traditional forms. It creates this uniqueness, and I think
for us that's how we connected. And being able to say, hey, like,
we're not just following these singular stereotypes of you know,
justice or just that it's and in and in and
and and I think, you know, seeing and recognizing that

(54:45):
is also part of my dope and being able to realize, hey, like,
there's multiple things here, right, It's not just one thing.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Right.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
And when I think about Latin America, we have this
shared cultural and link wuistic component that's derivative of Spain, right,
But the countries themselves and the different geographical regions, right,
whether it be Central South or the Caribbean, are very
very dramatically different ethnographically, culturally, linguistically. Right. I try to

(55:14):
explain to people, like, just because you speak Spanish doesn't
mean it's like like for like it's kind of like English, right,
And I try to explain that to them, They're like,
what do you mean. I'm like, the accents are as
dramatic as like someone from Jamaica and someone from Australia. Like,
it's that tragic sometimes, and we can't always understand each
other as simply as you think, connected to this big

(55:35):
thing that's from colonialism and all that oppressive stuff. But
the identity is, while it's connected, it's also very unique, right,
And and someone from Jamaica is very different from someone
from Australia or Canada or UK.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Right. Yeah. I mean, well that's the difficulty of like.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
It's it's unique to like the United States, right, because
we're in the US.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
We're all blanketed under one umbrella. Right.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, But like you said, there are so many different
cultural differences that exist within our community, and even just
you know, when we were talking about politics earlier, there
are certain things that as a Puerto Rican are don't
affect me, but our dire to uh you know, Mexicans
or Venezuelans, you know, especially we talking about things like immigration,
and that I think is what so many people fail

(56:28):
to realize, you know, who are in these sort of
power positions and are trying to love us all together.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
You know.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
It's you know, we we sort of as Latin Americans
have had no choice but to come together, which is
a beautiful thing. But also we have so many you
there's so much depth and nuance within our our heritage
and our community as well, which makes it so difficult
to be spoken to or to have a voice or
representation as well. You know, But that again, that's why

(56:57):
people like yourself are so important. Who can speak to
that and educate you know, the powers that be and
make them aware of those sort of ideas and nuances
and and kind of you know, speaking to back to
you know, your work and things that I want to
close out on this project. I know you're really excited
about that, the inclusive buying protocols. So break that down

(57:19):
for those of us in layman terms of what exactly
that is and kind of why this is such a
game changer.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
You know, it really started with myself being an amper
stand right, Like I'm an ad right, and I realized
I had a high I took the scientific method approach right, Like,
I just had this this inkling, this hypothesis that we
weren't doing something right in our general market buys right,
and by general market, I mean like not us Hispanic targeted,

(57:46):
not African American targeted, not Asian targeted. Right, these are
just like the broad you know advertising campaigns. Yeah, typically
that broad general market by represents around n ninety percent
of the total media investment from any advertiser. And I
was like, man, we're spending only five percent on our

(58:07):
diverse population, but that population represents forty percent of the country.
My hypothesis was within that big pot of money that
we're spending in general market, my hypothesis is there's data
bias at play here, and I don't think we're hitting
forty percent diverse in this pie that should be representative.

(58:28):
How do I prove that? So I had to take
some research. I had to do some experimentation and really
do some control and exposed to figure out what that
is that true and if it is, then what do
I do about it? And my idea was if it
is not representative, then the only way it will be

(58:50):
is through intentional inclusion. Right. If we aren't intentional, things
don't happen. Right. And I'm not into you know, the
like let's do this, you know, like like like a
charitable donation. I'm telling businesses in the industry, it's like, hey,
like the Census is telling us this data. If we
don't do this, this is not This is bad for business, right,

(59:13):
and this is also bad for a population and bad
for the creators and bad for the ecosystem that we
talked about earlier. So in my hypotheses I found in conclusion,
I was correct. We were missing roughly fifty percent of
our diverse reach that should have been happening in our
general market. Vice fifty percent. That is a huge outage.

(59:34):
I created a solution that course corrects that through intentionality,
through inclusiveness. And it's also in partnership with measurement and validation. Right,
So it's not just take my word for it. We
did it, spend more with us. It's I had a
third party arbitrar look at the work and also make
sure that it was inclusive through a third party lens, right,

(59:55):
which is I'm working with Nielsen. So the work and
of itself was designed to tackle a problem that the
industry should have never had and probably didn't know it has.
And so I'm shedding light on something that people didn't realize.
But I'm not just like, ah, gotcha moment, you didn't
do it right, hahaha. Like no, we figured it out,

(01:00:16):
and we have a solution to correct that right. And
it's our proprietary solution, my brain child that I spent
the last three years creating and hypothesizing and pontificating and
all these things to figure out how to bring it
to the marketplace. And what it does is it positions
brands optimally. It focuses on inclusivity. It from an ecosystem,
helps empowers and compliments diverse owned creators, diverse owned publishers,

(01:00:40):
diverse targeted publishers in a way that had never been
happening before. And we use those voices that are diverse
own and diverse targeted to speak authentically and resonate. But
what we had was a relevance problem. If you're not
relevant and you're only spending this five percent of your
dollars on this community, we're going to miss. The mark

(01:01:01):
is as connective as it may be, your brand relevance
is going to go down, sure, And what I tried
to create was a mechanism that has synergy and is
complementary to what needs to be done for both the
ecosystems and the brands. I try again. I use myself
as an antra stand right, I'm the and symbol. I
try to think of opportunities where there's growth and and symbols, right.

(01:01:22):
I don't like to think of things binarily through just
a or. It's like it could be this and this,
and we can do these together. And everybody on my
team knows my model. It's high tides rise all boats, like,
let's rise together and this can be mutually beneficial.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
All right, one last time here, I'm gonna jump in.
We'll take a quick pause, and then we'll be right back.
All right, we are back. And I wanted to just
pick your brain on something because like my inner nerd
right now is just thinking about the media landscape, yeah,
and the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Future of it all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
And you know, are a obviously like things like television
isn't what it used to be. It's not getting made
as it was. Shows are not getting ring as frequently. Right,
There's there's less being invested there people are far more
ingesting things in small doses.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I've even become a product of that where I'm like,
I feel like I've seen a movie because I've seen
enough TikTok clips of it, Like I'm good, you know
what I mean? And then you know, traditional influencer marketing
from what I've been seeing, is not as effective as
it once was because the algorithms are not rewarding people

(01:02:32):
based on their followers anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
It's based on the quality of the content essentially now. Right,
So it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Like I can have zero followers, I make a video
that is like great and timely TikTok would then flooded
and now gets a million views, and I had I
was somebody who started with zero followers, right, So it's
not as like linear anymore. What does that mean in general?
For I guess the media landscape and then potential opportunity

(01:02:59):
for the every day person to become their own boss
just based upon them being a trusted voice who can
you know, point people in the right direction? Like more
so like I feel like now we read like Amazon
reviews over anything else, Right, I don't give a shit
about the advertising.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
I look at what are the people who say who
bought it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Right, So I'm just curious in general the landscape you're
thinking you're going to see in the future now moving forward, you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Know, one of the things that's really important with my
work is is we've created our own custom algorithm that
helps to prioritize these things that algorithmically would be deprioritized
if you don't have intentionality. Right back to intentionality being
the core solved with this. We have to deliberately and
intentionally put these things into place because the data bias

(01:03:43):
and the engineers and so on and so forth to
help to create the actual mechanisms weren't designed to do
that type of inclusive work. To your point around how
it deprioritizes things or how it changes its prioritization of things,
and so, what I think is important and how we
can change the landscape and understanding the landscape is holding

(01:04:05):
the platforms themselves accountable. Right, we have to think about accountability.
And I want to be clear, a lot of this
stuff isn't necessarily nefariousness, right, It's not like in malice
intended someone in a dark room, Oh I'm going to
mess somebody over and do this, Like a lot of
it is just because it's not back to the right people.
We're not in the right rooms. And that's what I
think generationally, we have to really implore our people to

(01:04:27):
not just think about being the person in front of
the camera all the time. Right, Being the person behind
the camera is just as important. Right. That is the
key to changing the entire ecosystem and of itself. Right,
And I think that in order for us to have
a clear picture of what the future can look like,
we have to change the way that we prioritize our

(01:04:48):
value in it. Right. We can't just always think about
just this one component of it, or else we will
continue to be written out the script as an afterthought.
We have to be the script writers ourselves. Right. We
have to be the editors ourselves. We have to be
in that publishing house ourselves to make sure that it
happens or it won't. Evidence has proved that it won't
organically happen. So I think when I look at the
media landscape in the future, I think what we're starting

(01:05:10):
to see is a more just broad population call out
of algorithms. People are more broadly understanding them. And I
think it's really around education. All this information is googleable,
you can google all of this. It's not like some
hidden secret that you just have to know, Like these
are things machine learning, All this stuff is a topic
of immediate conversation. I empower our folks to get involved

(01:05:31):
in understanding how they can have a hand in tech.
As things continue to automate themselves, some of the mundaneness
of what we can do will be written out. The
way that we correct that is by being the writers
of the algorithms, the engineers themselves. And that is how
we change creation and what creators look like. We're creating systems,
we're creating programs, We're creating opportunities in ways that have

(01:05:55):
never been created before.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great point.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Is like it's easy to be scared by these new things, right,
and to push against them because they're different or or
you know, out of the norm. But the people who
end up having a future for themselves or who can
pivot are the ones who don't bitch and moan about
how it used to be, but they actually try to
become experts on where it's going and what it's becoming.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
Right, correct, correct, absolutely, and that's the key. Right adaptation
is eminent for survival, Right and we have to adapt
and we have to be able to continue to survive
in a never changing environment, right, Like, don't be a
dinosaur waiting on an asteroid. Like be someone who's able to,
you know, impose themselves onto the environment versus being simply

(01:06:40):
a recipient of what the environment gives you. Yeah, and
that's back to selling your dope.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah, no, one percent. And I think in all honestly,
for the betterment of the world. I think it kind
of it keeps the brands a little bit more honest,
right because they can't they can't just sell you bullshit anymore.
Because the people that are responsible from moving the needle
are genuinely real people giving real reviews of things they like.
And that those are the ones that really kind of

(01:07:06):
moving the needle on a large scale, because we can
see an ad from a mile away these days. Right,
So the people that are really going to get you,
I guess their return and investment are the ones who
have a trusted voice and are giving honest and real opinions.
And your product, actually it has to meet their criteria
for an honest opinion.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
Well you know what, man, it gets back. And this
is part of the product that I'm that I created.
Is that the best form of advertising? Exactly what you said,
word of mouth, Right, You can't have word of mouth
if your product isn't relevant. If people don't know you,
no one can speak on you. Right back to also,
like how you be visible and how you're known versus
what you're known for doing. It's all about visibility, right,

(01:07:43):
And so that's one of the things that I built
into what I created. But like the idea of being
able to influence word of mouth in a new and
evolving way has to change, and we have to think
about how we maintain that relevancy, right, And that's exactly
what you just said, right, And there is there's no

(01:08:04):
substitute for impactful connections, no substitute for it. And the
way that we show up, whether you're a content creator,
you're a tech innovator, any of these things, right, Like,
think about a TikTok kind of came out of nowhere
in a certain capacity, right, someone had to create that.
And when I talk to people about the future, you know,
younger generations, I'm like, stop trying to be the best

(01:08:26):
at TikTok. Create the new TikTok. Create something that hasn't
even come about yet. That's the key. That's how you
don't write yourself out of your script, but you create
your own script with new characters in it, right, and
that's the key.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Yeah, I love that. That's a great way to end.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Man. That's that's definitely some some some gems right there,
some jewelsy drop is go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
I was gonna say, you know, all respects and shout
out to my mom. You know. She she she's the
one who helped helped create this, you know, as as
a as a person who came here on her own accord,
ended up being all the way to being a delegate
in the US Congress. Man, So you'll shout out to her.
And she's the one who helped me think about things
creatively and never taking what is in front of me
as an obstacle finding solutions, you know, like finding solutions.

(01:09:11):
Don't tell me you know what the problem is, tell
me how you solved it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. That's definitely my mindset.
I respect that for sure. So man, it's always good
to go. Good to catch up with you. Where can
people follow you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Check out your work? What do you want to push
them to?

Speaker 4 (01:09:25):
Yeah, you know, Honestly, I'm not the big I'm not
the biggest social person as you might think from a
from a social media perspective, I'd say, push them, push
them to my LinkedIn, man, push them to the work,
and I help. I love helping people get connected to
this industry and find out their space and place in it.
So you know, I'll pop my LinkedIn into the show
notes and if you guys want to follow me there,

(01:09:46):
that's the place to connect with me and most importantly,
help us evolve and continue to adapt and change within
this industry so that we aren't the dinosaurs waiting on asteroids,
that we're the ones who are imposing our will on
the environment.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
So I love it, my broll listen, always good catching
up with you, and I'm really, you know, loving the
work that you're doing the messaging bro, So keep it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Up, man, big shot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
To my guest this week, Carlos Sanchez for hopping on
the show. I just love being able to have a
conversation with people, pick their brain on industries that I
find to be interesting. I think conversations that aren't had normally.
And and also again man, that corporate America, well, i'll
summarize it all, but big shots to Carlos for hopping
on here and giving.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Us his story, his perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
I feel like we kind of went around the world
on there, which I was really excited about. So we
will tie everything we talked about today in a neat
little bow and a segondent week called conclusion.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Stew time come.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
All right, So I'll quickly kind of summarize the conversation
or what I took away from it. I know we went,
you know, like we had a nice lengthy conversation, so
I won't take too long on you know, I like
to keep the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
It's about an hour.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
But again kind of reiterating what I was talking about
a I always think it's important to be a part
of the conversation, regardless of whatever conversation is being spoken about. Like,
if I'm spending you know, in the world of advertising,
I want to know that you are actually taking the
time to figure out the best way to speak to

(01:11:20):
me if I'm going to be spending my hard earned
dollars with you, right, And I think that's the beautiful
thing about the modern era that we live in, where
brands are being forced to really try to create an
authentic connection with those spending money with them, and we
the consumer, I think, have far more power and options,

(01:11:40):
you know, options are creating that power where we can
you spend our harder money elsewhere if we don't feel
like a brand is connecting with what we believe, you know,
And I think there's something beautiful about having that sort
of power as a consumer. I think at the same time,
when I look at it from a just flat out
jobs perspective, somebody like Carlos is leading a category that

(01:12:03):
didn't exist, you know what, ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Probably now he's leading entire.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Group of people who look like him, or look like
you or I have similar backgrounds or diverse backgrounds in general,
and they're allowed to use their authentic, unique perspective as
their superpower, as their asset.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
And that's so incredibly beautiful, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
They're literally getting hired for their unique perspective and getting
to show up in that way, like that's their asset,
and it's creating more job opportunity for people from our
community or marginalized communities, you know, historically marginalized community.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
So I think there's something beautiful about that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
And then the last thing I've kind of you know,
really beat this to a bloody pulp. But I think
for me, this is my blind spot right where I
oftentimes am gonna see my own journey, my path what
makes sense for me right, what makes sense for me
personally is completely abandoning the norms and just running one

(01:13:08):
hundred miles an hour against the grain, essentially right, And
that's what makes sense for me. I get a kick
out of that, right. It's exciting for me to have
the chaos of zero structure right as much it also
causes all kinds of mental issues for me, it is
the most interesting way to bring out the creativity and

(01:13:29):
passion in me. Right, I need to just be able
to recklessly be doing different things and not have to
be checking in anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
But there are other people who aren't like that. And
I'm not saying that my way is the best way.
It's what works for me, It works for people with
my mindset. There are gonna be other people who have
different mindsets, and that's beautiful. That works what works for
them might not work for me, vice versa. That's why
I always say, take for me what makes sense and

(01:13:59):
apply it to your life. But it doesn't have to
be like you know, the Bible what I say, or
you can take bits and pieces and sort of reiterate
it or recraft it for what makes sense for you.
And that's why I love having the opportunity to talk
to other people like Carlos, because he's existing in.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
A more corporate structure, traditional structure, but.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Still finding a way to show up authentically, to still
cultivate change and progress and to do work that he's
incredibly passionate about. And I love the opportunity to showcase
that route that avenue because again, what I've done is
not going to be for everybody, right, there are other
people who operate hire in a more structured environment. Again,

(01:14:41):
nothing wrong with it. I'm not putting anybody down for that.
I think knowing yourself is the greatest thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
At the end of the day. If you are the
type of person who wants to have a particular time that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
You get to the office, that you go to the office,
there's an expectation of you being there and you want to,
you know, operate within a more structured environment. Amazing, that's
what brings out the best version of you. Great And now,
how do we operate within the system without sacrificing who
we are without sacrificing our greatest sasset, which is our authenticity, right,

(01:15:13):
And someone like Carlos is putting that on display of
being able to find success while not sacrificing who you are,
right and still being able to operate within the confines
of a corporate structure, which I'm assuming, you know, are
things that are beneficial to the way that his mind
works or or the way that he operates right, And

(01:15:34):
again there's no right or wrong answers whatever works best
for you, and then figuring out a way to be
able to show up authentically in that type of structure.
So I think you get what I'm saying here. I
think I'm really driving that extra home right now. But
I just love these types of conversations. I love the
fact that someone again is able to create a lane

(01:15:55):
for themselves even within the machine, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
And you know, he's helping create.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Opportunity that wasn't there before, you know. And and so
to the Publicist group for being you know, so progress
minded that they are empowering people like him to you know,
do this work and do this research and implement these strategies,
you know, and again, as.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
A result, employing more and more.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Diverse groups of people at their company. So I just
think it's interesting. I love it, and I'm glad we're
able to bring a different type of conversation, different type
of person onto the podcast and maybe I normally do so.
Shout out to Carlo Sanchez again for hopping on the show.
Look him up on LinkedIn. He is again the VP
of group Media and Inclusive Buying Solutions at pooplicits Group.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Really good, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
My thoughts and prayers are with you and and your family,
you know. Big shout out to your your your mom
who you spoke very highly of, and and hopefully you
know we we were able to bring a a little
little joy to you dropping the.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Episode on what I believe is her birthday. So big
shot to you man for hopping on. That's that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Thank y'all so much for tuning into today's show. Of course,
on Thursday, we'll have our Thursday Trends episode.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
Till then, stay safe and I will talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Life as a GREENO is a production of the micro
Tura podcast Network and iHeartRadio