April 25, 2024 • 28 mins
Of course we wouldn't leave you hanging! Listen now for part two of Tori's conversation with Shannen Doherty for the ultimate podcast crossover!
What happened next on that text chain with Brian Austin Green? How do their views on dating differ? And what do they have in common when it comes to bedroom behavior?
This is true girl talk at its finest!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Brian and I you know how close briand and I
are and I tell him everything, like I'll text him
and like we're brother and sister and like best friend's
so close that we can have that connection, Like what
was this the reason? Maybe the you know, your relationship
didn't work because of this? And I'm like no, no, no no.
And I'm able to talk about things that you know
I wouldn't be able to with him years ago. Anyway,
(00:37):
recently we were talking about my situation and being in
love and being crushed and being hurt and moving on
and now being single and the next chapter of my life.
And he's been so great and such a champion, and
you know, at times he gives me such inspiring, you
know words of you can do it professionally and personally.
(01:00):
And we made some commentary and I was saying, like, no,
I was in love. I don't know, maybe I wasn't
in love. I'm not sure. No one's broken in my
heart since you. And there was like pause, pause, and
I was like, oh my god, this is the first
time life said this to him in thirty years. And
I just took a beat, and I said just kidding,
(01:21):
And I was like, I go, you may smile, and
he just put haha, and then we went right back
to talking about shit something else. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Right, So how do you feel because you were with
Dean for eighteen years five kids?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Correct? How? I mean? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Because I feel like I'm still adjusting and going through
I wasn't with somebody for eighteen years. I think we
were married for we were together for I think fourteen
years total.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's a lot, yeah, same, But.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
How is it being single? Like? How was that adjustment
for you? Because I think to be with somebody for
that long and you trust someone to that degree and
then that trust obviously be broken and choose to stay
and sort of fight for the relationship and then for
(02:11):
it to end up not surviving regardless, How are you
adjusting to getting into that single world again? And have
you changed more importantly to our have you changed your
bullet list of what a man has to have? Or
are you still running towards the friggin red flags?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Because I've read more to the red flag.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Every one of our boyfriends probably could stand up to
a certain degree and have a red flag on them.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Red flags, I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Maybe, but we probably also had red flags on us.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Not us why that were enablers.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, I do you think that by the very nature
of our jobs, by the very nature of the immense
amount of pressure that you face at an incredibly young age,
the fact that you're not really having like a normal
social life, a normal social dynamic with people. And then
you know the press, like the stories that would come
(03:15):
out in the newspaper, and yes, you know your friends,
your publicists would say, you know, today's paper is tomorrow's
you know, kitty litter or lighting.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Right, my daddy say, if they're talking about your baby,
it's good. Let them talk bad or good and good press,
bad press good.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, Unfortunately that's not true because that crushes your soul.
When it's bad press, it hurts so bad. So for
I think all of those reasons, we probably had some
red flags because we had a little bit of trauma.
I had a little bit of an ego and trauma there,
you know. But that doesn't mean that now in our fifties,
that we can't change that. So have you changed it?
(03:52):
Are you looking for something different in your life than
you've looked for in the past.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I don't know yet, Like it's also fresh. I'm not
sure what I even want. But one of my biggest fears,
and this perhaps did make me stay longer, is I
feel like in our world, it's very difficult to not
it's difficult to be with a man and have him
not feel emasculated, and not by our doing, but by
(04:22):
who we are. You know, have been labeled in society,
and we're not just women that make money. We're women
that have power or women that have fame, and I
don't know any different. Like I feel guilty, like how
am I ever going to be with a man and
he doesn't feel like less than me just because of
my status.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Because there's men out there who don't care about that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But how can Okay, there.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Are men that don't care, or there are men that
have their own status maybe in a completely different field, right,
maybe a man is a you know, partner at like
one of the top law firms. So everything he did
going to school, graduating, like everything that he did being
an intern working his way up the ladder, has shown
(05:08):
that he's a really hard worker with a ton of
perseverance and believes in himself enough in order to get there.
So you could work at Frontier and work your way up.
It doesn't matter. I think it's for I think it's
anybody that has strong work ethic and who has achieved
success in whatever they choose to do is going to
(05:29):
have their own status. Yes, it's very hard to be with,
you know, a woman who can get a reservation at
any restaurant. Yes, it's hard to be you know, with
a woman as a man where you walk down the
street and you know people are stopping her. But I
also believe that there are men out there who would
take such great pride in being you know, I had
(05:53):
going back to my second ex husband who said to
me how proud he was to be married to me,
and that I think helped me, and it was very recent. Go, well,
that's what I want. I want a man who's proud
of being with me and would do wouldn't she, wouldn't lie,
wouldn't do any of these things because he's so scared
(06:13):
of losing me. But also a man that's really proud
of my success and what I accomplish. And that's kind
of what I want you to be looking for right now.
Not a man that you can dominate, not a man
that puts you down, not a man that has any
red flags.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
At this point in my life. And this is all
I know right now. I disagree with you, and it's
only because I hear everything you are saying and I
agree with that. But sometimes are personal and you know,
we all have our personal stuff that we've carried through life,
through family, and you know, what we've learned, what we've
(06:53):
created nature versus you know, nurture, like who knows. But
I don't know if a man with you status, or
has his own thing, or is proud to be with me,
can still overcome the fact of a woman being I
don't know. I don't know this. That is depression a woman.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I mean, that's depressing to think that that's not possible.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Fear.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Okay, can I give you an example?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yes? Please?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Do you really think Keith Urban worries about Nicole Kidman?
Do you really think Keith Urban is masculated by Nicole Kidman?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
How do you know?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I just don't think so. I think that they both
seem extremely happy and yes, okay, so I'm giving a
you know, superstar rare couple ks right like he's a
ginormous country star and rock star. He's everything, and she's
one of our most talented actresses of all time. But
(07:53):
I went to somebody's seven eighth birthday in Tennessee and
they had Keith play at the party, and he was
so joyous on the stage and there was just so
much confidence that I can't imagine that that guy is
worried or feels less than because he's with Nicole Kidman.
(08:13):
I think they compliment each other and probably support each
other and feel like they're equals. So it is possible
in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I'm I and I really pray that it's possible, because
if it's not possible, then, like I said, that's incredibly depressing,
so incredibly depressing. How long have you been like separated?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Four June, so it'll yeah, it'll be a year in June.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And the divorce is the divorce final?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
No, I just filed recently, that's right. But I don't know.
And this I hate to put in terms of this
and men are gonna hate me up, but like caveman terms,
but it's like the need and a man is still there.
There's you know, obviously there's rarities and maybe Keith Urban,
you know, is the exception not the rule. But I
(09:09):
don't know I feel like it's ingrained in their soul
and they sometimes can't help it because they always have
that inner need that you know, goes to be the protector,
the provider, provider, right, So if you're not the provider,
what is your worth? And I think that's something that
men don't even realize because every guy I've ever been
in a relationship with, I always say, there's a lot
(09:32):
of shit that goes along with me. There's you know,
I'm sorry, there's you know, there's the tory spelling of
it all, and I would like apologize for it. And
I don't know if you want to get involved with this.
And they all say they can handle it, but you
know what it's like with ones that can't, and it
becomes too much like people don't and especially like you're saying,
like a lawyer or something that's way not in this world,
(09:55):
imagine like paparazzi and like jumping out at you and
like you know, stories written every day, makeup shit and
people saying stuff I mean not saying, imagine you live
this life, Like we know, how can a man be
like whoa? I mean, I guess they could be like whoa.
I didn't expect this, but I'm rolling with it.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's hard, yeah, I mean, listen, I don't think it's
not not hard, right I do. I think it's very hard.
But guess what, maybe it's really hard for me to
be with somebody who has a nine to five job
because I want to you know, I don't have nine
to five. I want to do stuff in the middle
of the afternoon. Maybe I feel limited by their career
(10:35):
or whatever. But if I care enough about them, I'm
going to adjust. I'm going to make it work. You know. Again,
Let's take the attorney and I'm using the word attorney
because I still to this day cannot say lawyer without
my Southern accent coming up. So I'm just keep on
using that professions as my example. He could make me
(10:59):
feel inferior because he knows so much more about the
law and everything that you know there are. It's both
sides the things that can trigger the other one. So
I and I get what you're saying, right, because I've
I've had a couple of people try to set me
up on dates recently, not even that, just over the
(11:20):
last six months or so, and I said no at
first because I felt not ready. And then I said no,
because one was a blind date and I was.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Like, no, that's not fair.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You can't set somebody up with me and them not No,
see like that. That is not fas.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's one of those circumstances.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
But my thing is not about who I am. My
thing is about cancer. You can't set me up on
a date without letting that person know because somebody has
just to decide if they want to spend time with
somebody who has a time clock. So I understand what
(12:06):
you're saying because I can kind of look at it
from that standpoint. But I've never felt like I've never
felt like someone couldn't take prior to cancer, couldn't be
couldn't handle being in my life. But the way they
can't get and if they can't handle who I am,
get the fuck out because in that case.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Once you're attached, I know you've better than that.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Not true, yeah, but that's why those relationships end. Because
don't punish me for what I've accomplished. Don't make me
try to be smaller because I've had success because I'm
as you know, I'm the first person to try to
build anyone up. I'm the first person to be like
(12:48):
I want to share my success with you. I want
to make you as successful as me. More so, I
want to get you to avoid all the mistakes that
I made. So I do that with my friends, and
I do that with the men in my life. So
then if they still can't handle it, then then you're like, Okay,
it ended, and it's a good thing that it ended,
because that's what's making them feel emasculated. Then they're just
(13:11):
not seeing the benefit.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I wonder if it wasn't maybe it was me the
whole time. No, no, me, of course it was me, though.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's not just you.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
But because I've always been worried about that, you put
it out there, I'm proactive, and I preemptively make myself
small and plummet myself and sabotage myself.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
You also put the plan in their brain that it's
going to be a problem, Like why are you giving
them Like you're literally planting the seed in their brain
and then you're fertilizing it and putting water on it
as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I miss being fertile.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
If it's not an issue for you, then don't make
it an issue for them.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Okay, I won't, but I'm still and don't ever.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Make yourself small for anyone. That's like I've been telling
you that for thirty freakin years.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You really have? Yeah, I didn't listen, No, maybe this
tie let's hope. Yeah, yeah, we just have to go
over like you need a new list. List a list.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
You need a new list, a list of do's and
don'ts of If they do any of this, you're not
even entertaining them.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
You have to otherwise you're just going to make say
the same mistakes, just like me. I have a list.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
My first glass is if you ever cheated, I'm probably
never going to date you. That's that's like kind of
my you.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
They never cheated, How do you know for a fact
if they've ever cheated on someone, that's the relationship.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
That's true. They also tell you they're not married, so
you know, it's a very, very very dating is tricky. Listen,
I'm I am so happy now. I climb into bed
and the other side is taken, and it's warm, and
it's perfect, and it's miss Bowie my talk.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It's always better that way with animals in the bed.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
She doesn't kick me, she doesn't hog the bed, she
doesn't take the covers. She lays there. The most she
does is like get up and make a circle and
then like lay right back down. She loves sleeping in late.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I hate being in bed with someone and having them
wrapped around you and have to sleep. But I was
so conditioned that that meant he likes me. I'm worthy.
And this isn't just my marriage, this is my whole
past right that you know, as a woman, I'm conditioned,
Like you know, we're in bed, I'm supposed to act
a certain way and supposed to hit like a checklist
(15:39):
in my mind of what a sexy female should do
forgetting about like what about you're really smart, you're really funny.
That stands for something too, that should be at the
top of your fucking list, Like but that comes now.
But I'm like, god, yeah, And then afterwards, you know,
they're like curled up around you and I would just
be laying there for hours and I'd be like suffocating, suffocating,
and I hate it and I hate sleeping with somebody.
(16:01):
But I always like let that define me that. I
was like, oh, you're supposed to so I yeah, welcome
partners that like don't like like being like I cannot
stand cuddling First of all, I get so cutlet at
night that I have the AC and sixty one, I
have a fan blowing directly on my face.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Was this always or I've always run very hot at
night and always needed AC and fans. But my god,
somebody wrapped around me like an octopus. It freaks me
out and I feel claust tophobic. I think that there's
a certain amount of time for cuddling and then you
(16:40):
go to your side of the bed. I'll go to mine,
or better yet, go to the guest bedroom.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I know another room. Yeah, way better my next partner.
I'll never adhere to that. I'm telling you this is
what makes.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Them make them listen to this episode.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Oh my god, that's the new things wore. You date me?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
You have to listen to my entire podcast so that
you can learn all about me.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Great, I'm gonna be single forever now.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
There's nothing wrong with being single, though, I mean, do
you really feel like you feel lonely?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
No?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And people keep.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Saying like, oh, it's because you don't want to be alone.
It's not. I mean, I have five kids at home. Shyeh,
You're never alone. I'm never alone, and I actually it's
not that part. I just feel somewhere ingrained in me.
They have that need that I'm supposed to. I'm not
good enough if I'm not adored by a man or
(17:32):
don't have a man's attention. I hate that. Yeah, I
don't want that to define me.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I think being adored by your friends is way more
important because your friends are, you know, at least the
friends that you should have in your life. Yeah, I'm
probably the ones that you have now, like currently today.
Those are the ones that should be one hundred percent
honest with you. So if your friends adore you, then
that's so much more important than a partner adore you
(18:00):
because there's no sort of messiness there, and your friends
are seeing the real you at all times, and if
they can accept the real you, with your faults, your pluses,
your all of it, then that's so much more important.
I hear you.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Oh am I ever going to be touched again? What
are you talking about? But I see the way like
you Chris, her best friend touch each other, and I'm like,
that's amazing. You guys have that relationship because you're still
able to like have that if you want to.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Like, yeah, I mean he holds my hand and he
puts his arm around me, so sure I have it
feels physical perfection, physical, but I also I also don't
care about like sex is just no longer the most
important thing. And maybe it's because of you know, how
my marriage ended. Maybe it's because of cancer, maybe it's age.
(18:54):
Maybe it's just me saying, well that just really, in
the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean that much. Like
having a best friend in your life, whether you're intimate
with them or not, is so much more important to
me that And yes, there are moments where I'm like,
I wish I had a boyfriend, and then I get
over it very quickly, and I'm like, you know what,
(19:16):
I'm really glad that I don't have a boyfriend and
that I have a lot of affection from, you know,
a couple of my exes also, like I can call
them at any point the day or night and have
conversations and it always ends with like, hey, I love you.
I love that, And that's really I guess I'm getting
(19:37):
whatever I need from the most important people in my
life now, so I don't need it from an outside source.
And I'm thinking that that's probably when I'll have.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My healthiest relationship once that you've let that completely go,
which sounds like you have. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're ready.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I just have to learn a trust again.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Once that's broken, it's hard. Yeah. I mean. Also, we
grew up in a time like I don't know, I
mean nine oh two to zero, Like everything a boy
did on set defined you, like the tension, right, And
I know I'm fifty now, I was eighteen then, but
it still sticks in me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, we also grew up in a time where the
men were always right. The men could basically do no wrong.
The men were the quarterbacks. The men were paid the most,
you know, when when they had an issue with a
line or something on the job, they weren't called difficult
or a bitch, right, They were, you know, a hard
(20:38):
worker who cared about you know, the show.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But meanwhile, we had an issue with something we were
either bullied into, like you with your wardrobe, like nobody
would listen to you and I would have to champion
for you and be like yeah, no, no, no, she
shouldn't be wearing that, or me just being called a
bitch because like this line is really stupid, or this
episode is stupid and like this is Brenda would never
do this, Like why are you making Brenda this? You know,
(21:06):
very dramatic, angsty girl, Like nobody's going to end up
liking her. He's that I hate Brenda newsletter that also
hated Shanna Doherty. You know, like that's the era that
we grew up in, so I of course it trickled
into our personal lives and how we think we're supposed
to be as women. Like you, no wonder why you
(21:35):
feel like you have to have this checklist of here's
how I'm supposed to be in bed, Here's how I'm
supposed to cook food, Here's how I'm supposed to you know,
this is how I'm supposed to mother, so that that
man can look at me and say I have the
perfect It's almost like the mentality of a fifties housewife
while being able to still go out and make money.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah yeah, and you know what the giggle I gave
back then not so cute on a fifty year old woman,
and like, but I not so cute anymore. I'm having
to relearn everything because I fall back on that because
I'm like, oh, you know, the boys used to It'll
be like oh cutes giggle, and I'd be like, I'll
do it. I'd be like, who is that? Yeah, and
(22:15):
then I'm like, oh, this is this is my voice.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Now it's just like, oh, you just swinging all over
the place.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You're like on brand on brand for tour.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But here's what I love hearing from you is that
you recognize it. So that's the first step to adjusting
yourself a little bit, is recognizing that, you know, you've
never really owned your power, and and you've always been insecure,
(22:45):
and you've always had a little bit of fear, and
you've always settled for a lot less than you deserved,
and it's time to change that, and you're on the
right track.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
It might scare a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
If I own my power, I would love to say that.
I think it would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, I'm my own worst th and me. We all are.
We're our toughest critic.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
We are toughest critic. But I mean, without going to specifics,
there are so many situations that you've had to deal
with in your life and even present life, that you
kind of you let it happen to you and you
don't you don't stop it and say, you know, what,
I'm sorry. You can't do this to me, and if
(23:32):
you do do it, here's the response. It's gonna like
this is what's gonna happen. And I get it. It
has never been your personality. Yeah, I would just love
to see you dig a little deeper and find like
you have power in you. You just haven't tapped into
it fully.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Because I apologize for everything, I'm like, oh sorry, And
if I do give my opinion and I am strong,
I'm like, oh sorry afterwards, because that makes it better.
I'm not fucking sorry, like I am not sorry, I
say sorry.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
So why don't let's have that be? The first thing
that you change is that you stop saying sorry. Listen,
you do something horrible, you apologize for it, but giving
your opinion is not horrible. Giving your opinion is your
god given right. So you can give your opinion and
just not say sorry. And you know what, You can
(24:23):
give your opinion and maybe somebody doesn't like it, maybe
your producer doesn't like it, maybe you know your mom
doesn't like it, maybe you're soon to be ex husband
doesn't like it, but it's your opinion, therefore it's valid.
And by you saying I'm sorry. Right afterwards, you literally
are taking away you're taking your own validation away, which
(24:43):
is crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But you learn from what you see. Keep in mind,
thirty years ago, what I saw was someone giving their
opinion and you were shamed for it, no, and ruined
for it. So keep in mind that's a lot of
we look up to the strong females in our lives,
and you were that for me, and seeing that that
(25:06):
was hard. That made it harder to be like, oh,
I got to find a nice way to say it
and still get you know, cert my passion and what
I want in my drive, but in a cute, nice way,
because you can't just be us and be like, here's
how it is.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And you saw me get like literally run over for it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
But you also had a mom who to me seemed
very strong, really strong, like yes and no really.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
She would say sorry to my dad all the time,
really really strong, but when it came to him and
personal stuff, and my parents never fought you probably I never, never,
but it was, you know, my dad would say something,
give his opinion, and I would hear her say sorry,
and I was like, as I got older, I was like,
(25:58):
she can't mean sorry, She's not wrong, you know, and
it was nothing major, but that also got ingrained in me,
Like you know, a man says I'm you're just like,
oh sorry, sorry, I don't have a right to speak,
what of course you do. And my mom was like
my dad's biggest champion. She was always you know, yeah,
she was. They would go places, they were like a
(26:18):
team and you know, he was super creative. But they
would go places and be like, you know, there'd be people,
entertainment people in the room, and in his ear very quickly,
she'd be like, this is so and so this is
what they did. This is like she knew everything going on.
And I would hear those stories and be like, oh,
she's so strong. I would see her at home giving
her opinions, you know, about watching you know, film and
(26:40):
tape on somebody, and she was so smart and so savvy.
And then to hear her say sorry at times, I'd
be like, it was a mixed message. So I think
I get a lot of it from there, But I
know in my head through my marriage, Dean would say
stuff and I'd be like, sorry, I'm sorry, and he's like,
why are you getting like that? You're acting like a
battered woman, right, I've never and he didn't.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
No, he never did know.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And I'd be like, I'd have to think, I don't
know where that's coming from. And then I would be like, oh,
my mom would do that with my dad. My dad
was an abusive with my mom, she'd be like, sorry, sorry,
just to smooth things over, right.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You're a pleaser. You just don't want confrontation. Yeah, you
want everything to be super smooth, which is, by the way,
not life.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Hate confrontation, don't I Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You will do anything to avoid confrontation. But giving your
opinion is not confrontation, right, Like, giving your opinion just
means that you have a brain and of a thought
and means you have an opinion. That that's it. Like
if you don't have an opinion on anything, or if
you're constantly apologizing for your opinion, don't you think people
at some point like you even be like, God, just
(27:52):
s girl have a thought on anything? And I know
you do, so I imagine you want the rest of
the world to know that as well. And it's not
like people don't see how creative you are. You've you've
managed to, you know, stay in the limelight. You've managed
to keep on earning money, take care of your kids,
(28:13):
work constantly while raising five children. Somebody like you has
to have an opinion, so just give it. Stop saying sorry.
I feel like you were about to say okay, sorry,
butting it up here. I could all work around see
it coming out of your mouth, and I was like, yeah, no,
that's not happening.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Hey, Shan, not sorry
Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Brian and I you know how close briand and I
are and I tell him everything, like I'll text him
and like we're brother and sister and like best friend's
so close that we can have that connection, Like what
was this the reason? Maybe the you know, your relationship
didn't work because of this? And I'm like no, no, no no.
And I'm able to talk about things that you know
I wouldn't be able to with him years ago. Anyway,
(00:37):
recently we were talking about my situation and being in
love and being crushed and being hurt and moving on
and now being single and the next chapter of my life.
And he's been so great and such a champion, and
you know, at times he gives me such inspiring, you
know words of you can do it professionally and personally.
(01:00):
And we made some commentary and I was saying, like, no,
I was in love. I don't know, maybe I wasn't
in love. I'm not sure. No one's broken in my
heart since you. And there was like pause, pause, and
I was like, oh my god, this is the first
time life said this to him in thirty years. And
I just took a beat, and I said just kidding,
(01:21):
And I was like, I go, you may smile, and
he just put haha, and then we went right back
to talking about shit something else. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Right, So how do you feel because you were with
Dean for eighteen years five kids?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Correct? How? I mean? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Because I feel like I'm still adjusting and going through
I wasn't with somebody for eighteen years. I think we
were married for we were together for I think fourteen
years total.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's a lot, yeah, same, But.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
How is it being single? Like? How was that adjustment
for you? Because I think to be with somebody for
that long and you trust someone to that degree and
then that trust obviously be broken and choose to stay
and sort of fight for the relationship and then for
(02:11):
it to end up not surviving regardless, How are you
adjusting to getting into that single world again? And have
you changed more importantly to our have you changed your
bullet list of what a man has to have? Or
are you still running towards the friggin red flags?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Because I've read more to the red flag.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Every one of our boyfriends probably could stand up to
a certain degree and have a red flag on them.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Red flags, I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Maybe, but we probably also had red flags on us.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Not us why that were enablers.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, I do you think that by the very nature
of our jobs, by the very nature of the immense
amount of pressure that you face at an incredibly young age,
the fact that you're not really having like a normal
social life, a normal social dynamic with people. And then
you know the press, like the stories that would come
(03:15):
out in the newspaper, and yes, you know your friends,
your publicists would say, you know, today's paper is tomorrow's
you know, kitty litter or lighting.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Right, my daddy say, if they're talking about your baby,
it's good. Let them talk bad or good and good press,
bad press good.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, Unfortunately that's not true because that crushes your soul.
When it's bad press, it hurts so bad. So for
I think all of those reasons, we probably had some
red flags because we had a little bit of trauma.
I had a little bit of an ego and trauma there,
you know. But that doesn't mean that now in our fifties,
that we can't change that. So have you changed it?
(03:52):
Are you looking for something different in your life than
you've looked for in the past.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I don't know yet, Like it's also fresh. I'm not
sure what I even want. But one of my biggest fears,
and this perhaps did make me stay longer, is I
feel like in our world, it's very difficult to not
it's difficult to be with a man and have him
not feel emasculated, and not by our doing, but by
(04:22):
who we are. You know, have been labeled in society,
and we're not just women that make money. We're women
that have power or women that have fame, and I
don't know any different. Like I feel guilty, like how
am I ever going to be with a man and
he doesn't feel like less than me just because of
my status.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Because there's men out there who don't care about that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But how can Okay, there.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Are men that don't care, or there are men that
have their own status maybe in a completely different field, right,
maybe a man is a you know, partner at like
one of the top law firms. So everything he did
going to school, graduating, like everything that he did being
an intern working his way up the ladder, has shown
(05:08):
that he's a really hard worker with a ton of
perseverance and believes in himself enough in order to get there.
So you could work at Frontier and work your way up.
It doesn't matter. I think it's for I think it's
anybody that has strong work ethic and who has achieved
success in whatever they choose to do is going to
(05:29):
have their own status. Yes, it's very hard to be with,
you know, a woman who can get a reservation at
any restaurant. Yes, it's hard to be you know, with
a woman as a man where you walk down the
street and you know people are stopping her. But I
also believe that there are men out there who would
take such great pride in being you know, I had
(05:53):
going back to my second ex husband who said to
me how proud he was to be married to me,
and that I think helped me, and it was very recent. Go, well,
that's what I want. I want a man who's proud
of being with me and would do wouldn't she, wouldn't lie,
wouldn't do any of these things because he's so scared
(06:13):
of losing me. But also a man that's really proud
of my success and what I accomplish. And that's kind
of what I want you to be looking for right now.
Not a man that you can dominate, not a man
that puts you down, not a man that has any
red flags.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
At this point in my life. And this is all
I know right now. I disagree with you, and it's
only because I hear everything you are saying and I
agree with that. But sometimes are personal and you know,
we all have our personal stuff that we've carried through life,
through family, and you know, what we've learned, what we've
(06:53):
created nature versus you know, nurture, like who knows. But
I don't know if a man with you status, or
has his own thing, or is proud to be with me,
can still overcome the fact of a woman being I
don't know. I don't know this. That is depression a woman.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I mean, that's depressing to think that that's not possible.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Fear.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Okay, can I give you an example?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yes? Please?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Do you really think Keith Urban worries about Nicole Kidman?
Do you really think Keith Urban is masculated by Nicole Kidman?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
How do you know?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I just don't think so. I think that they both
seem extremely happy and yes, okay, so I'm giving a
you know, superstar rare couple ks right like he's a
ginormous country star and rock star. He's everything, and she's
one of our most talented actresses of all time. But
(07:53):
I went to somebody's seven eighth birthday in Tennessee and
they had Keith play at the party, and he was
so joyous on the stage and there was just so
much confidence that I can't imagine that that guy is
worried or feels less than because he's with Nicole Kidman.
(08:13):
I think they compliment each other and probably support each
other and feel like they're equals. So it is possible
in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I'm I and I really pray that it's possible, because
if it's not possible, then, like I said, that's incredibly depressing,
so incredibly depressing. How long have you been like separated?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Four June, so it'll yeah, it'll be a year in June.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And the divorce is the divorce final?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
No, I just filed recently, that's right. But I don't know.
And this I hate to put in terms of this
and men are gonna hate me up, but like caveman terms,
but it's like the need and a man is still there.
There's you know, obviously there's rarities and maybe Keith Urban,
you know, is the exception not the rule. But I
(09:09):
don't know I feel like it's ingrained in their soul
and they sometimes can't help it because they always have
that inner need that you know, goes to be the protector,
the provider, provider, right, So if you're not the provider,
what is your worth? And I think that's something that
men don't even realize because every guy I've ever been
in a relationship with, I always say, there's a lot
(09:32):
of shit that goes along with me. There's you know,
I'm sorry, there's you know, there's the tory spelling of
it all, and I would like apologize for it. And
I don't know if you want to get involved with this.
And they all say they can handle it, but you
know what it's like with ones that can't, and it
becomes too much like people don't and especially like you're saying,
like a lawyer or something that's way not in this world,
(09:55):
imagine like paparazzi and like jumping out at you and
like you know, stories written every day, makeup shit and
people saying stuff I mean not saying, imagine you live
this life, Like we know, how can a man be
like whoa? I mean, I guess they could be like whoa.
I didn't expect this, but I'm rolling with it.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's hard, yeah, I mean, listen, I don't think it's
not not hard, right I do. I think it's very hard.
But guess what, maybe it's really hard for me to
be with somebody who has a nine to five job
because I want to you know, I don't have nine
to five. I want to do stuff in the middle
of the afternoon. Maybe I feel limited by their career
(10:35):
or whatever. But if I care enough about them, I'm
going to adjust. I'm going to make it work. You know. Again,
Let's take the attorney and I'm using the word attorney
because I still to this day cannot say lawyer without
my Southern accent coming up. So I'm just keep on
using that professions as my example. He could make me
(10:59):
feel inferior because he knows so much more about the
law and everything that you know there are. It's both
sides the things that can trigger the other one. So
I and I get what you're saying, right, because I've
I've had a couple of people try to set me
up on dates recently, not even that, just over the
(11:20):
last six months or so, and I said no at
first because I felt not ready. And then I said no,
because one was a blind date and I was.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Like, no, that's not fair.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You can't set somebody up with me and them not No,
see like that. That is not fas.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's one of those circumstances.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
But my thing is not about who I am. My
thing is about cancer. You can't set me up on
a date without letting that person know because somebody has
just to decide if they want to spend time with
somebody who has a time clock. So I understand what
(12:06):
you're saying because I can kind of look at it
from that standpoint. But I've never felt like I've never
felt like someone couldn't take prior to cancer, couldn't be
couldn't handle being in my life. But the way they
can't get and if they can't handle who I am,
get the fuck out because in that case.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Once you're attached, I know you've better than that.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Not true, yeah, but that's why those relationships end. Because
don't punish me for what I've accomplished. Don't make me
try to be smaller because I've had success because I'm
as you know, I'm the first person to try to
build anyone up. I'm the first person to be like
(12:48):
I want to share my success with you. I want
to make you as successful as me. More so, I
want to get you to avoid all the mistakes that
I made. So I do that with my friends, and
I do that with the men in my life. So
then if they still can't handle it, then then you're like, Okay,
it ended, and it's a good thing that it ended,
because that's what's making them feel emasculated. Then they're just
(13:11):
not seeing the benefit.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I wonder if it wasn't maybe it was me the
whole time. No, no, me, of course it was me, though.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's not just you.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
But because I've always been worried about that, you put
it out there, I'm proactive, and I preemptively make myself
small and plummet myself and sabotage myself.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
You also put the plan in their brain that it's
going to be a problem, Like why are you giving
them Like you're literally planting the seed in their brain
and then you're fertilizing it and putting water on it
as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I miss being fertile.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
If it's not an issue for you, then don't make
it an issue for them.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Okay, I won't, but I'm still and don't ever.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Make yourself small for anyone. That's like I've been telling
you that for thirty freakin years.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You really have? Yeah, I didn't listen, No, maybe this
tie let's hope. Yeah, yeah, we just have to go
over like you need a new list. List a list.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
You need a new list, a list of do's and
don'ts of If they do any of this, you're not
even entertaining them.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
You have to otherwise you're just going to make say
the same mistakes, just like me. I have a list.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
My first glass is if you ever cheated, I'm probably
never going to date you. That's that's like kind of
my you.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
They never cheated, How do you know for a fact
if they've ever cheated on someone, that's the relationship.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
That's true. They also tell you they're not married, so
you know, it's a very, very very dating is tricky. Listen,
I'm I am so happy now. I climb into bed
and the other side is taken, and it's warm, and
it's perfect, and it's miss Bowie my talk.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It's always better that way with animals in the bed.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
She doesn't kick me, she doesn't hog the bed, she
doesn't take the covers. She lays there. The most she
does is like get up and make a circle and
then like lay right back down. She loves sleeping in late.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I hate being in bed with someone and having them
wrapped around you and have to sleep. But I was
so conditioned that that meant he likes me. I'm worthy.
And this isn't just my marriage, this is my whole
past right that you know, as a woman, I'm conditioned,
Like you know, we're in bed, I'm supposed to act
a certain way and supposed to hit like a checklist
(15:39):
in my mind of what a sexy female should do
forgetting about like what about you're really smart, you're really funny.
That stands for something too, that should be at the
top of your fucking list, Like but that comes now.
But I'm like, god, yeah, And then afterwards, you know,
they're like curled up around you and I would just
be laying there for hours and I'd be like suffocating, suffocating,
and I hate it and I hate sleeping with somebody.
(16:01):
But I always like let that define me that. I
was like, oh, you're supposed to so I yeah, welcome
partners that like don't like like being like I cannot
stand cuddling First of all, I get so cutlet at
night that I have the AC and sixty one, I
have a fan blowing directly on my face.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Was this always or I've always run very hot at
night and always needed AC and fans. But my god,
somebody wrapped around me like an octopus. It freaks me
out and I feel claust tophobic. I think that there's
a certain amount of time for cuddling and then you
(16:40):
go to your side of the bed. I'll go to mine,
or better yet, go to the guest bedroom.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I know another room. Yeah, way better my next partner.
I'll never adhere to that. I'm telling you this is
what makes.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Them make them listen to this episode.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Oh my god, that's the new things wore. You date me?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
You have to listen to my entire podcast so that
you can learn all about me.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Great, I'm gonna be single forever now.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
There's nothing wrong with being single, though, I mean, do
you really feel like you feel lonely?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
No?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And people keep.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Saying like, oh, it's because you don't want to be alone.
It's not. I mean, I have five kids at home. Shyeh,
You're never alone. I'm never alone, and I actually it's
not that part. I just feel somewhere ingrained in me.
They have that need that I'm supposed to. I'm not
good enough if I'm not adored by a man or
(17:32):
don't have a man's attention. I hate that. Yeah, I
don't want that to define me.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I think being adored by your friends is way more
important because your friends are, you know, at least the
friends that you should have in your life. Yeah, I'm
probably the ones that you have now, like currently today.
Those are the ones that should be one hundred percent
honest with you. So if your friends adore you, then
that's so much more important than a partner adore you
(18:00):
because there's no sort of messiness there, and your friends
are seeing the real you at all times, and if
they can accept the real you, with your faults, your pluses,
your all of it, then that's so much more important.
I hear you.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Oh am I ever going to be touched again? What
are you talking about? But I see the way like
you Chris, her best friend touch each other, and I'm like,
that's amazing. You guys have that relationship because you're still
able to like have that if you want to.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Like, yeah, I mean he holds my hand and he
puts his arm around me, so sure I have it
feels physical perfection, physical, but I also I also don't
care about like sex is just no longer the most
important thing. And maybe it's because of you know, how
my marriage ended. Maybe it's because of cancer, maybe it's age.
(18:54):
Maybe it's just me saying, well that just really, in
the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean that much. Like
having a best friend in your life, whether you're intimate
with them or not, is so much more important to
me that And yes, there are moments where I'm like,
I wish I had a boyfriend, and then I get
over it very quickly, and I'm like, you know what,
(19:16):
I'm really glad that I don't have a boyfriend and
that I have a lot of affection from, you know,
a couple of my exes also, like I can call
them at any point the day or night and have
conversations and it always ends with like, hey, I love you.
I love that, And that's really I guess I'm getting
(19:37):
whatever I need from the most important people in my
life now, so I don't need it from an outside source.
And I'm thinking that that's probably when I'll have.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My healthiest relationship once that you've let that completely go,
which sounds like you have. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're ready.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I just have to learn a trust again.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Once that's broken, it's hard. Yeah. I mean. Also, we
grew up in a time like I don't know, I
mean nine oh two to zero, Like everything a boy
did on set defined you, like the tension, right, And
I know I'm fifty now, I was eighteen then, but
it still sticks in me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, we also grew up in a time where the
men were always right. The men could basically do no wrong.
The men were the quarterbacks. The men were paid the most,
you know, when when they had an issue with a
line or something on the job, they weren't called difficult
or a bitch, right, They were, you know, a hard
(20:38):
worker who cared about you know, the show.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But meanwhile, we had an issue with something we were
either bullied into, like you with your wardrobe, like nobody
would listen to you and I would have to champion
for you and be like yeah, no, no, no, she
shouldn't be wearing that, or me just being called a
bitch because like this line is really stupid, or this
episode is stupid and like this is Brenda would never
do this, Like why are you making Brenda this? You know,
(21:06):
very dramatic, angsty girl, Like nobody's going to end up
liking her. He's that I hate Brenda newsletter that also
hated Shanna Doherty. You know, like that's the era that
we grew up in, so I of course it trickled
into our personal lives and how we think we're supposed
to be as women. Like you, no wonder why you
(21:35):
feel like you have to have this checklist of here's
how I'm supposed to be in bed, Here's how I'm
supposed to cook food, Here's how I'm supposed to you know,
this is how I'm supposed to mother, so that that
man can look at me and say I have the
perfect It's almost like the mentality of a fifties housewife
while being able to still go out and make money.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah yeah, and you know what the giggle I gave
back then not so cute on a fifty year old woman,
and like, but I not so cute anymore. I'm having
to relearn everything because I fall back on that because
I'm like, oh, you know, the boys used to It'll
be like oh cutes giggle, and I'd be like, I'll
do it. I'd be like, who is that? Yeah, and
(22:15):
then I'm like, oh, this is this is my voice.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Now it's just like, oh, you just swinging all over
the place.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You're like on brand on brand for tour.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But here's what I love hearing from you is that
you recognize it. So that's the first step to adjusting
yourself a little bit, is recognizing that, you know, you've
never really owned your power, and and you've always been insecure,
(22:45):
and you've always had a little bit of fear, and
you've always settled for a lot less than you deserved,
and it's time to change that, and you're on the
right track.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
It might scare a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
If I own my power, I would love to say that.
I think it would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, I'm my own worst th and me. We all are.
We're our toughest critic.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
We are toughest critic. But I mean, without going to specifics,
there are so many situations that you've had to deal
with in your life and even present life, that you
kind of you let it happen to you and you
don't you don't stop it and say, you know, what,
I'm sorry. You can't do this to me, and if
(23:32):
you do do it, here's the response. It's gonna like
this is what's gonna happen. And I get it. It
has never been your personality. Yeah, I would just love
to see you dig a little deeper and find like
you have power in you. You just haven't tapped into
it fully.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Because I apologize for everything, I'm like, oh sorry, And
if I do give my opinion and I am strong,
I'm like, oh sorry afterwards, because that makes it better.
I'm not fucking sorry, like I am not sorry, I
say sorry.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
So why don't let's have that be? The first thing
that you change is that you stop saying sorry. Listen,
you do something horrible, you apologize for it, but giving
your opinion is not horrible. Giving your opinion is your
god given right. So you can give your opinion and
just not say sorry. And you know what, You can
(24:23):
give your opinion and maybe somebody doesn't like it, maybe
your producer doesn't like it, maybe you know your mom
doesn't like it, maybe you're soon to be ex husband
doesn't like it, but it's your opinion, therefore it's valid.
And by you saying I'm sorry. Right afterwards, you literally
are taking away you're taking your own validation away, which
(24:43):
is crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But you learn from what you see. Keep in mind,
thirty years ago, what I saw was someone giving their
opinion and you were shamed for it, no, and ruined
for it. So keep in mind that's a lot of
we look up to the strong females in our lives,
and you were that for me, and seeing that that
(25:06):
was hard. That made it harder to be like, oh,
I got to find a nice way to say it
and still get you know, cert my passion and what
I want in my drive, but in a cute, nice way,
because you can't just be us and be like, here's
how it is.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And you saw me get like literally run over for it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
But you also had a mom who to me seemed
very strong, really strong, like yes and no really.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
She would say sorry to my dad all the time,
really really strong, but when it came to him and
personal stuff, and my parents never fought you probably I never, never,
but it was, you know, my dad would say something,
give his opinion, and I would hear her say sorry,
and I was like, as I got older, I was like,
(25:58):
she can't mean sorry, She's not wrong, you know, and
it was nothing major, but that also got ingrained in me,
Like you know, a man says I'm you're just like,
oh sorry, sorry, I don't have a right to speak,
what of course you do. And my mom was like
my dad's biggest champion. She was always you know, yeah,
she was. They would go places, they were like a
(26:18):
team and you know, he was super creative. But they
would go places and be like, you know, there'd be people,
entertainment people in the room, and in his ear very quickly,
she'd be like, this is so and so this is
what they did. This is like she knew everything going on.
And I would hear those stories and be like, oh,
she's so strong. I would see her at home giving
her opinions, you know, about watching you know, film and
(26:40):
tape on somebody, and she was so smart and so savvy.
And then to hear her say sorry at times, I'd
be like, it was a mixed message. So I think
I get a lot of it from there, But I
know in my head through my marriage, Dean would say
stuff and I'd be like, sorry, I'm sorry, and he's like,
why are you getting like that? You're acting like a
battered woman, right, I've never and he didn't.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
No, he never did know.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And I'd be like, I'd have to think, I don't
know where that's coming from. And then I would be like, oh,
my mom would do that with my dad. My dad
was an abusive with my mom, she'd be like, sorry, sorry,
just to smooth things over, right.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You're a pleaser. You just don't want confrontation. Yeah, you
want everything to be super smooth, which is, by the way,
not life.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Hate confrontation, don't I Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You will do anything to avoid confrontation. But giving your
opinion is not confrontation, right, Like, giving your opinion just
means that you have a brain and of a thought
and means you have an opinion. That that's it. Like
if you don't have an opinion on anything, or if
you're constantly apologizing for your opinion, don't you think people
at some point like you even be like, God, just
(27:52):
s girl have a thought on anything? And I know
you do, so I imagine you want the rest of
the world to know that as well. And it's not
like people don't see how creative you are. You've you've
managed to, you know, stay in the limelight. You've managed
to keep on earning money, take care of your kids,
(28:13):
work constantly while raising five children. Somebody like you has
to have an opinion, so just give it. Stop saying sorry.
I feel like you were about to say okay, sorry,
butting it up here. I could all work around see
it coming out of your mouth, and I was like, yeah, no,
that's not happening.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Hey, Shan, not sorry
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