Chris Lord-Alge

Mixer extraordinaire!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnuts Podcast. My
guest today is engineer, mixer producer Chris Lord Algae. I
gotta ask, Chris, I remember first seeing your brother's name
on the back of Stevie Winwood's Back in the High Life.
I say, tom Lord Algae. He's an English cat, So explain,

(00:33):
you're a guy from New Jersey. Give us a backstory
on the hyphenated name.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, that's a pretty good story. My mom who got
me started in this business when I was very young.
Her stage name was Vivian Lord. So once she got
me the job, and once I started getting some credits,
I changed my name to Lord Algae as a tip.
Had the hat to her because she got me started.
So I used her stage name and my last name,

(01:01):
and it was actually her sister's real last name was
Gloria Lord, so I combined the two and then Tommy
and Jeff Mark and Lisa we all took over. And yeah,
Back in the High Life was Tommy's fast track introduction
to moving from assistant to engineer on my watch because
at that point I was doing so many things at

(01:23):
once that I needed someone to help, and you know
it worked out great.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I pushed him into the hot seat. He did well.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
When the client came in, I snuck out because he
would be like, Chris, can you come and show me
this thing? I'm like yeah. I wanted to make sure
he won and finished that record because I started it
and I just you know, I wanted this was a
perfect way to get him started, and my mom was
happy that he won the first Grammy.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Okay, just to be clear, growing up going to school,
you were Chris Algree, Yes, oh yes, I was. Okay,
let's switch gears. We were having a conversation about Dolby.
Is there a future for Atmost?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think there's a future for atmost if people can
hear it the way I hear it. As we know.
When Surround came in, it was like, oh, we're we
going to put these other speakers. So if they could
come up with a way where you can have nine
to one four, which is, you know, thirteen speakers in
your room, or a way to hear that or make
it look, you know, not weird with only speakers, I

(02:27):
think there's a future because it gives people a different
way to listen to music, and it matches the theater thing.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, explain, not everybody's that sophisticated. Explain nine to one four.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, nine one four would be uh. I mean that's
just the numbers.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
So it basically needs thirteen speakers and one subwharp ers,
so nine four and one so they can do it
with seven. I mean in my room, I have thirteen speakers,
so I have left center right, Okay, I have upper left, right,
lower left, right, back, left right, bottom left right.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
You know, and then very back is surround.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
So surround was five speakers, so LCR and then left
right surround. Okay, with nine to one four at most,
just add four more speakers, okay, yeah, right, yes, and
no no, you add four more speakers in the middle
to give you upper I'm sorry, eight more speakers in
the middle to get upper and mid. And that surrounds

(03:27):
you in like a sphere of speakers. So it's almost
like the format for movies at most, same same same format.
So we've added more points of origin for the audio.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Okay, So when you can get at most on Apple
Music and you listen on headphones, can you hear all
of that on headphones?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
You get a simulation? So Apple has immersed of audio.
So by manipulating phase. They're able to assimilate, you know,
the atmost experience in headphones, which is convenient, more convenient
nine than all these speakers. Is it the same? No,
When clients sit in my room dead center, it's our

(04:18):
big wow. In the headphones, it's a big hm wow.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Okay, let's go back. We had mono, we moved to
stereo in the sixties. In the seventies, there were two
competing quad formats, both ultimately failed. In the nineties we
had Q sound that failed. Why should this succeed when
all the other ones failed?

Speaker 3 (04:46):
That's a good question.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
I mean, I feel that that this is the biggest
push I've seen in technology towards the you know, in
audio transformation. So really, and and one thing it does
is it makes the labels go into their libraries and
dig out these masters and take another look at them.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
So yeah, we'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I think the major problem is if the listener can
enjoy the experience, okay, then it'll then it'll fail.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Maybe the car maybe that's the best way.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
The best place to put it in a fix because
you're in a fixed position, so that that might be
you know, one of the future ways to have it.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Okay, someone calls you up to mix. Are you doing
an outmost mix? For all the records? A few records.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's now something that is that has to be added.
And the main reason is because Apple is promoting this format.
When your record comes out, it'll show that you have
an atmost version that will put it kind of at
the top of the list like new Spatial. You know,
new Spatial mixes will show up and then there's your record.
So if you don't put it out that most, then

(06:02):
you're not up there. So the labels and the bands
are really pushing to now have this other format added
in addition to just stereo.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, So generally speaking, what are people sending you to mix?
They're sending you a pro Tools file with how many tracks?
What are you getting on the incoming.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I get their session, a pro Tool session. Sometimes it's organized,
sometimes it's a complete disaster. Is it ever right? No,
But it's all they send me. So yeah, I get
the multi track, I get the original recording. We mix
the stereo mixes. Once that's all approved, you know like
with Green Day or bon Jovia. Once that's all approved,

(06:47):
then we create the atmosphixes.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
So you know, it's not the old days of sixteen
and twenty four tracks. How many tracks might somebody might
send you.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
I've had stuff clock in and the high two hundreds,
the high three hundreds, and I no matter how big,
no matter how big, that boat shows up in, I
dock it on forty four feaighters sometimes forty six. If
I have to push, I can get it down the
forty four forty six channels.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
And that's it.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Okay, I come in with two hundred channels. What's the
first thing you do?

Speaker 2 (07:24):
I go through the song and I find out where
all the handoffs are, which means most of the you know,
the things that happen is that everything is separate.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Everything is separate.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
So you'll have the vocal and the verse that's separate,
the b sex or the chorus, they're all separate. If
they don't overlap. It's a handoff. Is it usually the
same sound?

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (07:44):
That can easily fold down. How about won there's like
forty eight tracks of backgrounds. They can easily fold down
to a couple of pairs without even the compromise. So
there's there's three things we focus on. A handoff is
when literally part A and can go to part B
and parts part D on one track and it all works.
And then a comp is when you would take like

(08:05):
a low, a mid and a high harmony and just
make your own blend stereo and that saves a lot,
a lot of faders. And then and then overlap is
when one thing overlaps with another, and then you you
have to make a decision there how you make that work,
and then all of a sudden it folds down pretty quick.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
It is every day, Okay, you say, okaya, forty four faders?
Is the goal to get forty four or many fewer? Now?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Forty four is fine because some things I'll you know,
because for me, I want to have the drums spread
out the most because that's usually the biggest challenges to
get them right. So I don't want to make compromises there.
But I think, Bob, part of it is that I
come from a world of twenty four track, then two
twenty four tracks, then a forty eight digch tape machine,

(08:54):
so one tape, forty eight tracks play rewind. So the
reason the forty four number comes up simple on the
tape on tracks one and two would be their rough
mix that would stay there. Then I would need tracks
three and four for my mix, and then that would
leave me forty four tracks for the rest. So, no
matter what, it would competent. That was the number and

(09:14):
I'm sticking with it. Are there situations where I spread
it out a little bit more, Yeah, it was if
I have to, but I really I want to get
it down to this manageable size and then the mixing
is easy.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Okay, do you do that yourself or do you have
somebody who does that for you before you get involved.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
I do it with my assistant.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
I usually if I get the session at home, I'll
prep it all ready for him and then he'll have
it ready for me to make those decisions. So since
we've been working together for years now, he knows what
decisions I'm going to make, he'll have those ready and
I'll fine tune those comps you know, or or edits,
and then.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Go from there so we can always go back and
redo it.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
That's the great thing about protals is that with two
twenty four tracks, Hey, you got to make a decision.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Okay, you got all forty four tracks up on the board.
What's your next step? Uh?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, we'll find out what this. You know, we'll listen
to the rough mix. We'll put the cues in, which means, okay,
verse one B one, chorus one. Well, look, well, just
look how this song was built. Okay, And I'll put
the faders up and I'll look for where the problems
are and look where the magic is. So most of
the time, if I get the rhythm section to sound
right and the vocals to sound right, everything else falls

(10:34):
in between. So the vocals the most important thing in
the record. So I'll make sure I find all that
stuff and fix that all first.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay, you fix it? Then to what degree do you
add EQ in effects? And when.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
It's constant?

Speaker 2 (10:53):
So I mean EQ and compression is constant, And it's
really the vocals get the most comple I should the
most EQ, the most editing to get what I call
a sound, to get more of an analog sound. If
you look back in the in the early days of recording,
I mean they built the sound in. They didn't have
all these options. Later later it was just let's just

(11:15):
turn some knobs and make it balance. Mixing is really
about getting a great balance and letting the song breathe.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
So yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Vocals will get most of the treatment and the drums
will be like, Okay, do I need to add samples
or not to make it do what I wanted to do,
because the drums are always the holy grail to make
the record work, and a lot of these recordings are
not ideal and you know, and I'm not, I'm not,
I'm not precious about any of it. I'm like, oh,
we better keep their kick drums sound like no, if

(11:44):
it's not working, it's out of here.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
So you will literally replace and add drums.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I always, I always have them ready. I always have
samples ready to go, and I just seasoned to taste.
Sometimes the steak shows up, it's perfect, it's medium, rare,
it's got salt and pepper, a little bit of olive oil.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Boom, great. And then there's times where wow, that's unedible.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
So I'll just start seasoning it with samples to help it,
you know, have the impact and do what I think
needs for the song.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay, let's go back to the vocals. Are you using
the EQ in the board or external EQ?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, I have you know, I have all the colors.
I have the biggest paint box going, so I have
I have EQ compression that starts from the sixties, so
plugins I actually created myself, so I'll use a little
bit of everything to make it work. So there'll be
some plugins in the box getting it started, and then
my traditional analog compression in EQ it's to finish it.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Okay. I think most people know what EQ is. Explain compression.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Compression is just dynamic control. So, uh, you know a
lot vocals are very dynamics, so you want it. You
don't want to eye scraper in a neighborhood a single
story houses, so you want to make sure if the
song is working and everything's like a single story house,
you want to make sure the vocal dynamic range matches
the song and matches the energy. If it's an open song,

(13:13):
you want to have it more dynamic. If it's a
rock song, you only you want it to have one
floor of dynamics, so it so you can understand it
and it has the energy of the track as Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Will you ever use compression on the overall result?

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oh yeah, that then you have on the whole On
the whole mix, it's called the bus. We have a
bus compressor, which means the mix bus. Okay, So whatever
your mix is going through before you know you print it.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
I have a bus compressitors. Uh.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
I have a bus compressor, and I have tube eqs.
I use Pulltech eqs that are tubes literally from the sixties.
That sound to me automatically makes this all work better.
It adds a quality of low end and hind you
can't get out of a new digital eque. So I

(14:07):
used to traditional and it's not much. It's just to
top it off. That's always in. So I start with
that in. I don't change it. It's that's the setting,
and if it feels too much, I pull things back.
But that's the set of them. And when it's done,
mastering doesn't add anymore. It's like, okay, that's fine the
way it is.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Okay. So who do you use usually as a mastering engineer.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
I've been using Ted Jensen since the eighteen hundreds, kidding
Ted Jensen and I go back to nineteen eighty two
when I wandered in with a band demo and had
to master a band demo for me, and then later
on I just you know, started working him and he's

(14:52):
just my partner, but he's my partner in audio. I mean,
he knows what my sound is and he knows what
makes my clients happy.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Now.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
The thing with mastering is that as long as the
client's happy, it's a win for everyone. But he also
understands that I don't want it to really change much.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
When I send it.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Just just top it off, which means if I had a
bright day or a dull day, just just find the
balance where a record will sound the same. That's what
a mastering engineers there. This song needs a little more salt.
Oh this is too salty. Let's let's let's go back
on that.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
So okay, just staying on a big topic, analog versus digital.
What are your thoughts there? Uh?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, analog. Analog is like tinted windows. Okay, you roll
the windows up. It's got a vibe. Digital is like
clear glass. What goes in comes out with no enhancement.
When you record on analog, the transients get held back.
It adds a bit of compression because it can you know,
it's just tape, So it adds a vibe. It actually

(15:56):
fixes things, It makes things better, but it's noisy, and
a good engineer can work with that a log That
format is pretty much dead here.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Someone really have to pay.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Me extra money to go all analog with something could
I do it?

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Of course?

Speaker 2 (16:15):
But I started out analog and I was so happy
when digital came in. For the main reason is that
I could create a first generation copy of everything from
all the slave reels. So digital's really good because you
don't really lose anything when you copy it. And with
that a loog you had to really be careful and
you had your hands tied you really, I mean the

(16:36):
magic you can do now you could never do that.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
It was painful.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Okay, you and me both know there's a lot of
compromises to get music on a vinyl record. Roll loss all.
You know, the Neil starts with the end. Whatever. What
do you think about today's vinyl boom?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
I am so happy that the boom is happening for
want for one reason.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
I'll start with the first reason.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
It gives the listener something to look at and read
and then get a vasion. It feel like he's been
transported into that record. Okay, when you looked at a
Beatles album, all these records santastic, santanic majesties.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
The album covers are so intense, but you're reading it
while you're listening. So let's just start there. It gives
gives guys like me a place to see their name. Ah,
so someone knows who actually did it, because with streaming,
I mean it could be goddamn Captain Kangaroo mixed it.
Nobody knows I did it, and sometimes people take your credit.

(17:42):
I'm so happy that we have something you could hold
in your hand, and whether you played or not, that
you have it, okay. And also I encourage my artists
everyone I work with to get to make great sounding vinyl,
which means if the record's too low, it's gonna be
two discs, okay. If you go over a certain time,

(18:04):
gotta make it two discs or three or four okay,
Dolly was four to get sound quality. If you pack
too much time on a disc, it just sounds like crap.
And have a mastering engineer master it for vinyl, which means, okay,
if you're gonna use a little compression in limiting or
whatever these guys do for rock stuff.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Don't use any of that for the vinyl, okay.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
And they have to eq it and cut an acetate
and do it differently because of like what you said,
the low end can make the needle jump.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
The high end has to have a high le, a
limit or on it.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Use the techniques to use for that. That's what mastering
really was, is the magic disc cutter.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Okay, I fully understand when you have analog tapes and
you ultimately make a vinyl record, it doesn't quite make
sense to me to start with digital and make nyl.
You have a very clear sound. You're actually compromising what
you have.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't think you're actually My opinion on that is
that if you take your ninety six K twenty four
bit wavefile a right which we all make, and you
make an album from it, it makes it sound analogue
because of the limiting, because of what you have to
do to get it on vinyl, because that little bit

(19:28):
of tweaking kind of rounds it off and actually takes
the harshness out of it. So I love listening to
records at home, and there's just something magic about putting
the needle on the record and listening to it. And
I have a giant pa outside, so I mean listening
out there. I mean you listen to Asia on a
first pressing, It's it's magical. There's something in there that

(19:52):
you can't take away.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Ok So you mentioned Asia, any other reference Vinyl.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Amazing.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I mean, look, I put on Doobie Brothers, Okay, I
put on Beatles, I put on the Rolling Stones, and
sometimes with the Stones, Street Fighting Man will sound better
on one album and different on another. To the point
where we're all having dinner. And I emailed them and said, hey,
you know I'm through the past Darkly volume too. It

(20:26):
sounds great on there, but I think on Beaker's banquet
it sounded all the started and screwed up. So check
that out. And he did and said, you are right.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
So okay, let's go into gear. So what kind of
board do you have in your studio.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
I've been driving this bus for a long time. Solid
State SSL four thousand series. I first started on it
in nineteen eighty four and I'm not going anywhere. I'm
staying with it.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Okay. SSL was a breakthrough. Know it was digital, the faders.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Moved, it's analog.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
It is analog, shows what I know. Yes, it was
one of the first where the faders moved right.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, yeah, eventually they came out with Ultimation where the
faders had motors and they moved. Yes, it started out.
I still use one where the faders don't move if
I don't want them to move. If God wanted faders
to move and give them wings, I don't want faders moving.
I move them, then they move where I don't want them.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Okay, a couple of things. Do you think the motors
add something to the sound.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Well, the reason, yeah, the reason they put the motors
in was to eliminate the use of a VCA, a
voltage controlled attenuator, and make it a clear path. Some
people like that song. Some people can hear the difference.
My brother uses ultimation. I don't hear a problem with
the VCA. That's how it started, and that's how I'm

(21:57):
going with it.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
I like it. I like I just like it does.
But it is an improvement.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, that's why they made it was an improvement to
have no audio going through the fader.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Okay. Explain that a little deeper the VCA and how
the audio doesn't go through the fader. Uh.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Well, the first the first console you could that you
could automate, which you could have it remember your moves.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
It's a fault. It's controlled to tell you it's a VCA. Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
So when they moved from that, you could actually switch
from VC mode to motors on. That means the audio
comes out of the chain, okay, and the and the
the audio levels being controlled differently and supposed to sound
a little more open, a little more punchy. But you know,

(22:46):
it's it's apples and oranges. It's it's it's opinion. It's
supposed to be better. I didn't care about it. I
mean pro tools, the faders moved no matter what, you
have no choice.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Okay, this is a nineteen eight or four.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
All this one's eighty six, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Eighty six. Excuse me. In the last forty years, other
than automation, what way have they evolved?

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well, with solid state logic, Yes, the quality has evolved, okay,
and everything about it is evolved. Has it made it better?
Not necessarily in our music business right now, what's evolved
is how cheap the stuff has gotten and how quality
has gone out the window, and a lot of things

(23:32):
and convenience has taken over. Okay, because remember these things
cost a fortune. So and the old needs and the
older consoles from that golden era of the seventies and
eighties is where they really had high quality. Now there's
still the big consoles that have great sound. But this
workflow and this build makes me play it like an
instrument or the newer ones, it's too much that I

(23:55):
don't need to use, Okay, I need for it to
remember my moves, remember my mutes, and take a snapshot
and remember what I did.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
That's all I care about.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
And you know, when SSL came on the market, there
were people who either SSL or Neve people. So what
do you think about Neive, Harris and all the other
boards that compete with SSL.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, for me, I think that the Neve sound is
great to capture to record with. And I've done some
great albums that are recorded on a Neve console. Tina Turner,
you know, and they had that golden area of the
eighty fifty eight, the eighty sixty eight, the eighty seventy eight,
great class a mic praise.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
You know.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
I still use Neve modules to record stuff. They still
have the best sound. But the SSL four thousand console
is a mixing machine. It was built for one purpose,
to give you the ultimate production tool ever, and nothing
is going to ever beat the simplicity of this. When
I started out, it was two twenty four tracks, you know,

(24:56):
being able to automate and save it and save a
picture of your mix so you could recall it and
put it back up. To this day, I can still
recall any mix I've done in twenty years, and it's
going to be really close if not spot up.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Okay, before automation, you know, on certain mixes you'd have
to bring multiple people into the studio to move the faders.
So how do you do it? Uh?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
In back then, let's go back then we'll start with
it back then. Back then you would have pieces of
tape in the faders with little marks. Okay, So back then,
when I mix with no automation, I would mix until
I made a mistake and I'm printing to the half inch,
so I start to mix the half inches rolling. I'm like, oh,
it's going great, all right, stop the half inch when
I made a mistake, back up, start the happench again, backup,

(25:52):
pick up where I was going, and keep stopping and starting,
and then edit the half inch together. We're all you
know where it was correct, So you would you would
make notation say okay, mix good up till the bridge. Okay,
here's the chorus. This is fine. You'd have to remember
the good part edited together, and it's easy to edit
because you're editing this, you're editing what works together.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
So that's how you did mixing. You just make edits.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
That that was your automation, your automations you go to
you make a mistake, then back up and punch it
in fix apart and I tell you Living in America
by James Brown went that way and many others. And
when you have to go back and print like the
instrumental or the TV track, you got to remember all
your moves and do the same exact thing again, and that,

(26:34):
you know what, that builds, That builds integrity.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
That's a great way to learn.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Then when you're able to automate, it's like it's it's
it's like an unbelievable dream coming true that it will
remember what you do. Early systems were bad, but the
SSL became the ultimate mixing machine.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
A Bob Clear Mountain who is my idol and I think.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Probably one of the greatest, the greatest mixers of all
time and a really sweet eye talented guy.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
He's the one that used this.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Tool to turn into a superstar on mixes like Let's
Dance on start Me Up Okay, where they just they
and all the Springsteen stuff.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
They just go beyond.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
How much of that was the machine and how much
was clear mountain.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Obviously it's all the mixer's ears. But the tools enable
him to go beyond what he could pull off. Okay,
so you get better with the tools that you can
go beyond this. Oh I could do this with it.
Now I can make it do that. I hear this
thing in my head. I can actually get it, and
trust me. In the early eighties, you know, it was challenging.
I mean, we're all trying really hard to make these things,

(27:49):
you know, larger than life.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
So the tool was a miracle.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Okay, let's talk about speakers. We had our tones than
nsten M's and then you know they have the big speakers,
the Augsburgers. What do you use?

Speaker 2 (28:05):
And it's tense, the same ones I've had since nineteen
eighty something, eighty seven or eighty eight. And here's a
simple way to put it. I started out it was
oritones in the late seventies, or maybe it was nineteen eighty.
The first pair showed up, Okay, and we all got
into it. The thing about the ns ten like it

(28:26):
or love it. It's the sound of hits. Okay, and
whatever whatever you hear through. If you can make it
work on that, the opposite is what the record is. Okay,
So if you can make it work for you, what
your result is. What records sound like. That's what hit
records are to me. It's the it's a tool, okay,

(28:48):
whatever it sounds like. You get used to it and you.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Live with it.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
It becomes your tool, becomes your reference. And still to
this day, if I use other speakers, the mix sounds different.
Things I don't like pop up and so yeah, I
stay with it. I even created it with avingtone the
CLA tens, which is the best we could do to

(29:11):
make an exact copy.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
The only real difference in mind versus the originals are
mine or new and it's a fatigue, so they get
a little duller like the originals. But we did the
best we could do to make a match. And and
that's the story on that.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay. Back when they hit the market, everybody was putting
a little piece of Kleenex over the tweeter. You still
do that? What do you think about that?

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Well, at this point, I'm so old. I wanted to
be brighter.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Okay, No, I have the cover, I have the covers,
really I don't even have I have the covers on them.
I literally have see the original nsten ms had covers
that want on right, and they look really nice. I
don't want to look at the white cultun anymore. I
had many years with the white colen a tissue. Now
I just put the cover on it and the cover
makes it dark.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Okay, your speaker business, the CLA speaker, Is that a business?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, it's a product.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
I have a CLA ten and a CLA ten Active,
which obviously is popular because people want a powered speaker.
I even have the virtual tissue paper controller.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
And I mean, you know there's a lot of monitors
out there. Can you get them through sweet Water people
buying them? Or is it a very niche product?

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (30:31):
It's the biggest selling passive monitor there is.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Everywhere Sweetwater at where everyone has them.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
And were you do any selling marketing or it just
sells itself?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, I mean it's a I do a little bit.
I mean I did a few ads for it. I
even made a power amp to match it, the CLA
two hundred, because I wanted to have the companion that
went with it, which is a power amp that that
to me gets the closest sound. And we're also coming
out with a subwook first, so it matches that. So
and yes, Sweetwater sells it. Everybody sells it, I mean,

(31:07):
and I sell it at the right price. I mean,
I made it as cheap as possible. I just wanted
engineers to have the tool because I'd get calls like, hey, Chris,
I got these enus tens from eBay and they sound weird.
Can you check them out for me? And they're usually
mismatched or screwed up, and it's not fair that you
spend your hard money and you can't trust it.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
So how much does a pear cost?

Speaker 2 (31:31):
I think they're like eight ninety nine or and the
powers are nine ninety nine.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Okay, and tell me about the amplifier.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's I literally took the amplifier that I use been
using a Yamaha amplifier and said, look, just make a
copy of this. Make something it sounds like this, built
like this, and it worked, and I plugged it in
and said, you know what, this feels really familiar.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
I'm happy with this. Okay, this does what it's supposed
to do.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
To what degree are you a gear hit? Worrying about
the wire and all kinds of other stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Uh, well, I don't care about the wire. I don't
go that far.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Look as long as it as long as it creates
the sound that I'm used to. Yeah, that's it, because
I have so much vintage gear, and yeah, it's all
made out of unobtainium. And when it breaks, it breaks,
and when it stops working, you're bummed out. But I know,
you know, I know what these things say. I know
what they can do for my paint box. You know,
I know what color is supposed to have. But yeah,

(32:29):
we're always tweaking and having fun always.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Okay, So that particular board, how long has that been
with you?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
This board's been in this room since nineteen eighty six,
and it's seen it's had this particular one, which is
a seventy two. I mean Tupacsichord did his records on it.
Before that, it was Stone Tempo Pilot, It's a lot
of rock bands. Before that, it was death Row for
a minute, and then after death Row someone else took over.

(32:56):
Then I bought the place, so about sixteen years ago,
two studios, but this has been here since since new.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Since new, it hasn't.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Moved, Okay, so tell us about your studio complex. What
do you have?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well, now I have three rooms. I have a studio A.
I'm a studio B Studio A I rent out, and
then I have a studio D I call. I don't
really have a C. I have a studio D that
I have with a brand new origin in it. So
I have my partners in there. He's working, so we're
fully functional. But this is like, this is my rooms
and this is whatever is me is in here. Only

(33:33):
nobody else comes in here unless I'm producing it or
I'm involved.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Okay, studio has been closed and left, right and center.
How's your business and how do you stay open? Well,
it's simple, it's got to be owner operator.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
So being in the studio business is challenging unless you
have a lot of loyal clients. But if you think
about it right now, A and M Studios. Okay, Hence
it A and M the last the five or six
big ones, or left our books solid all the time
now because I was working with Dwight, and Dwight couldn't
find a room to finish vocals in and he always

(34:08):
wants to be in A and M. So I mean
all the last of the Mohicans are all busy, but
it's an owner operator thing. You have to be the
work and then you just the studios your place.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from New Jersey.
Where trying to fly in New Jersey and tell people
where that is in New Jersey?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Got some you know, twenty minutes from the city over
in Bergen County, New Jersey. I was born in Englewood,
lived in Tenafly. We moved a bit. My first job
was I got it H and L Studios in Anglewood.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Wait, before you get there, your mother was a singer.
What'd your father do for a living?

Speaker 3 (34:53):
My father was in the jukebox and vending business.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
So really.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yes, so he you know, he would jukebox and cigarettes
and occasionally some pins and some bowlers, but it was
jukeboxes and he had to load them up. And he
had a whole room full of forty fives and it
was top forty, so it was one through forty, and
every week or so he would update their locations and
change them. And I was able to go in there

(35:19):
as like a tot and grab forty fives and play
them and take them home.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Okay, that business historically is controlled by the mob.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, and the mob basically forced them out. The mob said, look,
you either sell to us or we're going to kill
your whole family. He got pushed around by the mob
to the point where he sold his company to a
bigger vendor betson that were a little bit more immune
to the mob influence. But no, he had guys coming

(35:52):
in wanting to hand out.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
He told me the stories about the situations and when
he sold out it.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
That was like the reason why he got out of
the business.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
What did his father do for a living.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
His father was an embroiderer from Switzerland, so he comes
directly from Switzerland. So, uh, my father's parents are from Switzerland.
He was an embroiderer, so he embroided patches and flags
and things like that.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
And then how did your father get into the jukebox business?

Speaker 3 (36:25):
You know, that's a question I don't have the answer for.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
But I think him and his war buddy, you know,
he had a he was in World War Two, and
I think as one of his close friends, you know,
that was an idea for them. That was an idea
to get into that business. It's all cash, and my
father loved music. He's the top forty guy. He was
the one saying he'd hear a song on mind already, goes,
is that one of ours? I'm like, no, Dad, that's

(36:48):
somebody else. Why isn't that yours? That's a good song,
that's a hit. He'd hear Mine goes, you know what,
I don't think it's going to go. I don't think
it's going to do anything.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
And then that.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Stevie winning He goes, Yeah, that stev Went went thing
that's gonna go. That's that that higher love thing, and
that that's a good one.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
That'll go. Watch them it watch it. He's right, it's funny.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
And tell me about your mother's career.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
My mom was, you know, a diehard jazz artist, professor
of music. She taught she you know, she taught music.
She lived it, she breathed it.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
She played every day till the day she died. I
mean she always had the pianos, always played and uh
and I did four records with their jazz records. She
was just hardcore jazz, intelligent, very smart. But you know,
raising five kids, it's a challenging being out in those
little clubs, dinner clubs, playing it's you know, you got
to have a lot of patience and a lot of

(37:41):
a lot of pride to hold on to that.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
So in the five kids, where are you in the hierarchy.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
I'm right in the middle, right in the middle.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
So so what is everybody doing today?

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Ah, I mean, you know, there's five, but it's now
six because before she got married, she had a child
at wedlock, which is my older sister.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
So I have a I have an.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Older sister, an older brother, and another older sister, and uh
my two younger brothers. Obviously Tommy does the same thing
I do. My brother Jeff was younger. He does live
sound in the in the in the Pacific North, in
the well in the West in Wyoming. My older brother
was in the vending business. He's retired. He was he
took over my dad's but he took over doing that.

(38:26):
He basically worked for a mobster. I mean, he worked
for guys that were questionable.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
H he did.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
He was probably the greatest guy who could fix a
jukebox or a pinball, and he knows every single model.
And then my you know, my sister is a complete entrepreneur. So, uh,
the music thing was me and my two brothers. Really,
my two younger brothers. We really went for it.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Okay, So what kind of kid were you? Growing up?
Good or bad? In school? Friend? Sports?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Uh? The school didn't last till it ended in eighth grade,
so uh, I just carried.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Let's start with the school. The lawe is you have
to go to school till you're sixteen. Needles to say
you're not sixteen in eighth grade. So what exactly happened?

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Well, my mom saw that I wasn't really interested in school.
I was more interested in music and recording because I
would take her equipment. She just had like a real toreal,
a few mics in a mixer. I took that into
the basement. I started at eleven, twelve years old, recording
a little band down there, and I would cut school
and we'd hang out make music. And she finally realized, well,

(39:40):
he's not going to go to school, I better get
him a job. So yeah, by eighth grade, I didn't
even finish eighth grade, and I got a job at
a studio at thirteen fourteen, and at thirteen.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
The government never came over and said, this guy's not sixteen,
he's got to go back to school. Nope, okay, and
you did go to school. You have a lot of friends,
you play sports or more of a.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Loaner, total loaner, and mostly into the music. And because
I've had long hair, the greasers would pick on me.
And because I wanted to hang out in the music
room with a few of my other friends or smoke
pop behind the school, all the greasers would come after
me because I was the hippie. And it was you know,
it was always the greasers versus the freaks, right, And

(40:25):
that's how that went.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
So getting out of school was a win.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Okay, do you have any kids.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I have a twenty twenty two year old daughter who's
graduates college next week.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Okay, that's my question. Did you tell her she's got
to go to college? Did you want to go to college?

Speaker 2 (40:44):
I just no, I just said, you do whatever you want.
I mean, I'm gonna I'll whatever. I'll take care of
your schooling as far as you want to go. So
it's I'm not telling you what to do at all.
So no, she she's a great student, has done very well,
and she's gone all the way and she might even
go to you know, a mastering whatever. The next level is,

(41:08):
but I think at this point I like to see
her get some real work experience because I believe that's
part of my success is starting at such an early age,
you actually it becomes part of you.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Then. Okay, many people of our vintage started off playing
instruments being in band, especially after the Beatles hit did
you ever play?

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, I played a little bit of everything. So I
was a piano player, drummer, guitar player. In my band,
I was a guitar player, keyboard player, and then the
drummer was good, but he would speed everything up. And
I love drums, so I picked up drums and I
started playing drums and ended up playing drums with a
lot of records I would produce. And there are even

(41:52):
some mixes that the drums were so bad. I just
replayed them, didn't tell them. I don't get in trouble.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Okay, your father was in the business, you had a
room of Top forty. But when you started listening to
the radio, what is it that caught your ears?

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I mean I listened to am cousin Brucie. I started there.
I mean when I was young. Uh so I was
always listening to the Top forty hits. I was always,
you know, I cared about what was you know, what
was the hit and my dad had the list always,
so I'd look at the Billboard list he had and
I always check out those and have forty fives of that.
Well then, you know, fast forward a few more years.

(42:37):
My brother gives me, my older brother gives me a
joint and a led Zeppelin cassette, and I started listening
to that every night, and then it changed and then
it was like, okay Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and then it
was Genesis and the Prague moved in, and then it
became Genesis.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
So wait, wait till you're a big proger.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Oh yeah, I mean all I listened to was Jenn
It's like I play the Lamb all the time. I mean,
I'm a proger, totally a proger.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
And what about yes, General Giant and all.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
The other totally general Giant, elp all that yes yours
is notis grace all the progue. I mean, to this day,
I'm out anytime I can see Steve Hackett and I've
seen a hundred Hacket shows, so all the Genesis shows
that could go to even the the you know, even
the last round, which is a little disappointing because Phil

(43:31):
was just like not, I you know, not in the best.
So but yeah, Steve Hackett the only one keeping it going.
And then there's also Stephen Wilson. He's great progue guys.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So yeah, come on, what do you think of Wilson's
remixes on the classic albums?

Speaker 2 (43:49):
You know, to be honest with you, I have not
compared them to the originals. And you know, if he's
able to do it great and the band's like it great,
I you know, me and my brother Tommy would bust
his balls when we see him at the show, saying, dude,
you're not a mixer, send your files to us. We'd
much prefer this record if we mixed it. Well, I

(44:10):
like the records. I'd like to mix it myself, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
I guess you know he remixes them, and he's told me,
you know, because the bands want changes that are you know,
the people who are listening are the hardcore fans. They
want him to sound like the originals. So when listening,
it sounds like he took steel wool and scrub stuff
off where it's like Giles Martin, what he did with
the Beatles is a travesty.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yes, I mean I agree that I agree with you
on that completely. When you remix something that's been heard
a million times, make sure that all the elements that
are in there makes make the listener feel like it's
just a cleaned up version. It's clarity. You bring clarity
to it, and wow, this is just sounds so clear.

(44:56):
I mean, for example, Nick Davis remixed the Lamb right,
and I said, up a list of notes of shitt
he missed, Like, dude, you miss these things that I
remember from my youth or not not in the mix?
Now what happened? Did you not listen to the rough?
Did you not check what you were doing? Do you
not know what you're doing? I mean, now, if gild
goes back and changes history, then call it something else,

(45:17):
you know, call you know, reducts.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
You give it a new name.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
But you know, if you're going to remix it and
clean it up, clean it up, make it clear, make
it separate, but don't don't kill it for the listener.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
It's not fair.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I'm just worried those will become the standard as time
goes on. So your first gig is what.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Oh oh?

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Back to the beginning. The first gig. I walked in
on when I was doing getting the job. The first
day of introduction, they're cutting Van McCoy.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Do the hustle really well, let's go a little bit slower.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
How do you get the gig? Well?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I mean, my mom had friend ends and she basically said,
what do I do with this kid? He takes my
gear downstairs, he's always a tickering around with recording and
he won't go to school.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
And her friend says, I know a guy. I know
a guy.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
He's an engineer in the studio. Maybe he needs an assistant.
Maybe he could be there tea boy. So my mom said, hey,
I gotta we have an idea this date. This guy
may want to hire you in a recording studio. I'm like,
oh cool, I want to see a recording studio.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Let's go. So we went up to H and L.
Hugo and Luigi's studio, which.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Had just just got in the twenty four track console
just got a twenty four track tape machine. Twenty four jack,
twenty four track just came out and it had an
MCI console, a pair of ortones and some big reds.
And I went there and they're tracking due to hustle,
and I was just like, this is the place for me.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
I gotta ask they're tracking through the hustle, do you
hear it as a hit?

Speaker 2 (46:55):
I was so enamored with, you know, the hearing a
band play because I only hear I didn't hear the
vocals yet. I only heard the track, you know, I
didn't know what it was. I only heard like the
basic track, you know, I did not hear and it's
kind of an instrumental anyway, but I heard it. I
was so enamored. I didn't even think about that aspect though.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
So where was the studio and who were these two guys?

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Hugo and Luigi are a songwriter's production team that did
a lot of the Philly sound, the stylistics, the soft homes.
They wrote the Lions Sleeps Tonight, They wrote a lot
of a couple of things that actually wrote a song,
a couple of songs for Elvis.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
I think a couple Italian guys, you know that had
the Philly sound.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
They had a little company going on and the engineer
Steve Jerome, he was my mentor, and they were writing
on Angle with Cliffs on Route nine W a quarter
mile down the road.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
From Rudy van.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Gelder studio and what was going on in that studio.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
I never got to go in. He never let anybody
in there.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Okay, so you're there the first day, they're tracking the hustle.
What do they have you doing when you start going there?

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Literally in the beginning, Steve was a very tough teacher,
but he was one hundred percent right, and I thank
him every single day. He taught me to listen and
pay attention and shut up, do not speak, do what
you're told, and watch, watch the ball, watch what we're doing.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Okay, very simple.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
So I started out by wrapping mike cables and helping
with set up and cleaning up.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
I went through the paces. I mean, he'd show me
how to wrap a mic cable. I would do it.
He'd say, no, that's wrong. You throw them all down
and make me do it again.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
He said, you got to pay attention to what I'm
telling and showing you, and that went a long way.
Writing track sheets a track sheet and then sitting there
and running the remote and punching and record. So I
used to run the remote. If they're doing vocals, I'd
I'd watch a hand signal and punch record and watch
another hand signal to punch out. The hand signals got

(49:06):
smaller and the gesterres, the gestures got to the point
what was barely a wink because they knew I was
watching so and then if I missed, he goes, what
do you want vacation over there? He's comment through constant
So No, the embarrassment, the constant ridiculing and embarrassment, it
makes you have a tough skin. But you know what,

(49:28):
I got a lot of respect after a while because
Steve would say, just get over here, Chris. He's the best. No,
he can't rattle him. No matter what you do. He's
on it. He pays attention. And I kept my mouth
shut and he's it's right.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Only speak when you're spoken to, okay, And because you're
you're part of the machine and you got to make
it work, and you know, you get respect. And when
you're told how to do something, do it their way
until it's your place.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Don't don't undermine the boss.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Ever, you're the assistant and I could be an assistant
tomorrow anytime.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
What kind of records were they cutting? Were you gutting?

Speaker 2 (50:09):
It was all? It was all twenty four track. It
was all R and B and soul, you know, Philly soul.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
He cut a song a day.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I mean it was always you know, you'd be tracking
all the time, and then literally it got taken over
by sugar Hill Records.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Before sugar Hill. How do you end up touching the board?

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Oh, I mean I'm sitting I'm sitting to the left
of Steve. Okay, I'm the assistant. And when he would
get up, I said, it the board okay, and I'll
just continue with what he was doing. So if we're
doing vocals, I'm sitting there on the talkback, I'm riding
and faders whatever. When we were when he when he
was mixing, I'd have to pay attention and he'd say, okay,
now you print the TV track in the instrumental. So

(50:52):
I'd have to watch what he did and do it,
and he'd watch me do it and he taught me.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
So he taught me to do it his way and
it was very smart.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
So when did you have your first session alone behind
the board.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Ah, the first weekend I could sneak in. Uh, well,
I had the keys. Once I had the keys, you know,
who knows what happened? I mean, as soon as I
had the keys, it was like the first no storm.
Me and my band are in there sneaking in the record.
We would like cut some tracks in our basement, then
overdub guitars and vocals at the studio because we get

(51:29):
away with it. It didn't really you know a vocal miight,
you know, easy to get you know high from there.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
But uh no. My first session was with my mom.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
He let me have a day free to record my
mom an album with my mom, which was a lot
of fun.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Okay. Usually when you're the low man on the totem
poll at the studio, you're working like ninety hours a week.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, I mean Mom would drop me off and then
picked me up after her gig at night, so a
lot of time as you go up the street for
Chinese you know whatever, nine ten, eleven o'clock late, and yeah,
we worked late. I mean it was basically ten to
ten every day. So if I was lucky, it was less.
But I loved it. I didn't even look at the clock.

(52:12):
When you're that age, you didn't look at the clock.
Who cared I do?

Speaker 1 (52:15):
No?

Speaker 2 (52:16):
I mean, I like ten to seven, I can't go board,
you know the nine hours.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Okay, so how long before sugar Hill takes it off.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
It's a few years, It's like five, six years, and
then they sell to to sugar Hill, and then it
becomes a whole different thing. It's a whole different You're
making different records then, and then yeah, you have two
studios now, And it was great. It was that experience.
At that point I knew, you know, I was an engineer.

(52:48):
I could handle it. And I mean I worked, you know.
I mean they had sugar Hill, they did Rappers Delight
and then that became a big hit. So then after
that we started cutting everything. And one of the big
things we did there was the Message by Grand Master Flash,
which I sat with Steven engineered the whole thing and
printed all a mixes and even ran mixes, and I

(53:10):
became friends with Doug Wimbish and to this day we're
all lifelong friends.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Okay, those are different records. Those are great records. But
is there any genre of music you will say no,
I won't mix that.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
I don't really say no, But at this point, the
rap from that era, okay, those records, I was okay
because I was part of it, you know, it was
part of my upbringing right now, like the rap the
rapper those records. Now, it's like it doesn't really interest
me because I think I had that early in my career.

(53:46):
I need I need melody, I need musicality. Don't don't
get me wrong. There's if it's a hit, it's got
a great melody or a lyric, it's fine, but it's
not gonna be what I'm going to go for. You know,
it's not my wheelhouse. Everything else jazz, rock, country, Western,
I do country and Western.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
It doesn't matter. Good song is a good song.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
I've had Slipknot in the morning and Michael Booble at
night doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Okay, So how long is it sugar Hill? And what
do you do next?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Well, after sugar Hill was only a couple of years.
I literally got fired for using the studio at night
without asking. I walked into Joe Robinson's office with the
invoice and a check from the client, and I said,
I didn't want to wake you up, because you know
we had we were finishing latest client wanted to come

(54:40):
into Look, can I book the room to do vocals
between three am and six am?

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
And I handed them all at and still it was like, well,
you use my room. You know, you did stuff without asking. Okay,
I'm available twenty four hours that you and you're asked,
you're out.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Of here, really okay?

Speaker 2 (54:56):
And and it was probably a blessing because after that
they weren't doing that great. I ended up going to
New York and starting as an assistant. I went right
back to nothing and became an assistant at a unique recording.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
How'd you literally get that job? You'd knock on a
million doors.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
No, some I had, you know, right after sugar Hill,
my friends were doing stuff independently, and you know, some
friends that I had worked with there said had me
do some stuff with them, and they I don't know
who recommended it, but one of the sessions was a unique.
So my first time there is I was working with them.
I met the owners and they were interested in you know,

(55:38):
I told them what I did, and they was interested
in hiring me, so they literally hired me on the spot.
I was happy, but I literally back to being an assistant.
I remember working on a session in the b room
on eight track. They had an eight track in that room,
or they had an eight track machine. They also had
a sixteen track. I remember working on that and on

(56:00):
an older board, and you know you start back at
the beginning.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
So what were the steps of moving back up the ladder?

Speaker 3 (56:08):
It didn't take that long before am I.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
You know, my popularity increased and I was doing more
and more, and literally as years went on with all
the remixes with Arthur Baker and working with all these
you know, other artists, I started, you know, getting some
producers that just wanted to use me.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
A little bit slower. Wait, wait, you're the assistant. How
do you end up becoming a remixer unique?

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Well, okay, you're an assistant. How do you become a
popular engineer? Well by making rough mixes that they really
get excited about. So how you got you know, how
you get a fan base back then? Was Hey, client
comes in to do a vocal overdub or a guitar
or something, right, and you're the assistant or you're the
engineer in a session. Well, you make a kick ass

(56:55):
rough mix on their cassette form, and then they're like, man,
this sounds cure.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
I got to use that guy again.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
And then they and then they tell their friend and
then their friend comes in and you again, you make
a great rough mix.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
On the cassette and then oh I love this, And
then the.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Studio manager and the other engineers working there are all
pissed off at you because you're making these roughs. He goes, well,
you shouldn't be you know, you shouldn't be making a
rough like that. Well, I just want to sound like
a record. So you know, they got well, you're making
it harder for us. I'm like, well, then you need
to work harder. I don't know, I only hear what.
I just want to sell, like a hit record whatever.

(57:32):
So you know, it wasn't about just do a vocal,
make a quick mix and give it to him. No,
do whatever OVERB you're gonna do and make it sound
good for him, because that's what you do.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
I mean, that's like your job.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
So I really enjoyed that aspect of it, and that's
what opened up all the doors because then they all want,
Oh I want Chris.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Chris. Chris is the guy. Oh I need Chris.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
And then all of a sudden, you know, producers are like, yeah,
Chris is the guy. Chris is gonna work on this,
and that that got me to doing more stuff.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah, how long did you work it unique before you
went Independent or where'd you go next?

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Well, yeah, while I was working Unique that I started
also working at other studios, Hit Factory with Troy.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
I really liked Hit.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Factory and and Eddie Jermon owner really wanted me and
my brothers over there. He'd do anything to get us there,
so they whatever I wanted. So I would work a
lot of and a Hit Factory because a lot of
the clients wanted to up They wanted to upgrade. You know,
the clients wanted to go to Hit Factory is beautiful
and uh, all the all the big artists worked at

(58:34):
the Hit Factory, so I did more there. The powder Station,
I mean the power station. We called the powder station
for another reason. I got to really I can't imagine
what that might be exactly, So I still call it
the powder station because you know, Skeletor would be my
uh my duck, my dealer, and he'd always be there
for in the morning when we ran out of blow.

(58:56):
So it beat Skeletor, but Hit a Hit Factory, Electric
Lady was so the only real real rooms that I
got familiar with was the old Media Sound and then
Hit Factory and then Lady and of course Unique. After
a while, i'd you know, after I don't know, late
eighties or mid eighties, I was already out of Unique

(59:16):
and just just a hit factory.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Okay. When you went to Unique, you were on salary yep, okay,
and you were doing stuff at the Hit Factory and
the so called powder station on your own free time.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Right when I started going independent from Unique, I now,
I'm trying to remember my first like manager Stu Silfin,
my first lawyer. He would get me involved in some
of his connections to get different clients. So if I
went to the Hit Factory, I could steal any client,

(59:55):
and people knew I was the ultimate client thief because
once I go in there, they can't go in there
because me and Tommy, well I will first. I always
grabbed the client, and once they work with me, they
don't work with anybody else. So I was getting a
little bit of that reputation for doing that. But because I
had different energy and I was a little bit more experienced,

(01:00:18):
and you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Know, I wanted to be in charge.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
I want it to be my way, So people just
liked my way, like like when you go to I
don't know, the.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Subplace and Mike's Mike's way or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
I just heard it my head a certain way, and
I make everything go that way and people liked it,
so that caught me those gigs.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Was there a specific record that was a breakthrough for you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I would think that Living in America that I did
with Dan was a good door kicker. There was a
lot of the remixes like let the Music Play and
some Shannon stuff. There was some of those one offs
that I did with Carl Sturk and Devin Rodgers. Those
did well well. Some of the remixes that did with

(01:01:03):
Arthur got me visually in there. But yeah, I mean
the Living in America that really started to open the door,
because you know, I'd worked with Dan Hartman, so as
soon as I met Dan Hartman as a producer, I
did everything for Dan and he.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Had a hell of a run.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
And unchained my heart by Joe came out after that,
and then we did Tina Turn a Foreign Affair and
you know, and a few other things that we did.
And then when the Windward thing came in with Russ
and I was there, I was doing it, and that's
how Tommy got involved. So I eventually had tom and

(01:01:41):
Jeff both there. I both my brothers come to Unique
to work with me, and the owner really.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Couldn't do anything about it. I love Bobby and Joey Inn.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
They just went with it because you know what Chris
is doing great for He's bringing great clients and yeah,
whatever he wants to do. So I brought my brothers
in and they fast tracked into working with me, and
they fast tracked it to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
The bigger gigs.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
They didn't go through the channels, they didn't go up
the stairs, they just took the elevator. I went with me,
so you know, that's how Tommy got the gig. And
I'd be producing a band and Tommy's there assisting and
Jeff's they're assisting and we're all screwed around because I
was a bit of a mad scientist. So like when
the Lord Algie's are there, well, they're in charge whatever

(01:02:23):
they want to do, and they're.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Having fun and they're enjoying it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
And it's great fun every day experimenting producing because when
I was producing, it was just a free throw. I
had so much fun. And with Windwood it was like
every day. With Tommy, I'm like, man, because I couldn't
wait for rusting it off the phone and sit there
all day I had I had Dan at the other studio.
I got to work on this other stuff. I didn't

(01:02:49):
have the patience to sit around and wait. But Tommy
learned from me really quick on that, and I pushed it, pushed,
and I walked away from I didn't I didn't care
if it was gonna do well or not. I just
cared that my brother was gonna win, get this gig
and boom. That's because it was for mom. Mom knew
I was doing it. I did it for Mom. I

(01:03:11):
want to make sure that both of us now are equals.
Like one record, he went from from nothing to where
both equals, if not him being bigger because of that record.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Okay, so you're a remixer, how do you end up
producing records?

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Well, I you know I. I was always involved in
the production side of it, and everyone saw it, so
I would have found. I found a band, I got
it signed to Electra, I started producing it. Then Ultra
gave me a couple more bands to produce. So eighty three,
eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, I had a bunch
of records. I produced band called Xavion, an Electra, a band,

(01:03:55):
an artist called Alan Vega. He was the half of
the art band's Suicide. He was the singer. I produced
a record for him. I could even sing. But I
came up with great tracks with Rick Acaystik and did
that broke a band called World of the Glance.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
I got signed to Elektra and we made a record.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
And then I had people in coming and just wanted
me to produce their stuff with them. And you know,
they didn't have a lyric and say, hey, cut a
track to this. Or there was an album called beat
Street that that Arthur was cutting for, you know, for
the movie. And I would just come up with these
songs for b Street with him, you know, and just

(01:04:35):
kept going. So I love that side of it. What's
the key to being a good producer making decisions?

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
It's that simple. But no, it's not just that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Being a good producer is about ninety percent bedside matter.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
So you have to win over the artists and show
them that you're confident and that you know what they want, okay,
and you know what deliver it, and making decisions is everything.
You waffle one second, that's a problem. So whether it's
a vocal that's good or a drum sound or drum
fill or guitar lift. Yes, yes, that's good, No, that's
not good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Do it again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Being able to make those snap decisions and have a
big vision, that's what.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Makes a great producer.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
You could always go back and said, you know what,
let's do those guitars over today.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
I think what we did yesterday, I think we rushed it.
Let's go again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
You got to make a decision, and you got to
you know, you have to drive run the ship. You
have to be in control. Some people work really fast.
Other people work at a glacial past. If I hire you,
what kind of speed are we working at? At light
at lightning, it's like back in the future when it
hits eighty eight miles an hour. You can't work as
fast as possible because think about this, all right, a song,

(01:05:56):
a song can get tiring so fast, okay, it's it
can spoil so quick. So you got to be in
the heat of the action. So when you record a song,
create a song, the quicker you do it, the more
you keep all that energy in there, the more you
labor over it, the more it becomes just like digging
a grave.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
It's just it's a drag and it's it's just human nature.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
The more you hear it, the more you either like
it the way you have it, you have you lose.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
All all all concept of it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
So I would I like to work fast and then
put the song on the side a couple of weeks later,
put it up to mix it, and then you know,
clean it up and go. I mean, look, get that impression,
make that timestamp. But sometimes people will work at a
glacier pace and the song did not improve from the demo.
It actually got worse and more boring. I want to

(01:06:46):
keep the energy, you know, what makes the song interesting,
the story.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
And what about recording live? Everybody there or everybody uh separately.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I mean I think the days, you know, the days
of cutting live, and I've done a bunch of that
and I've seen it work. You get if you get
the A team out there, I mean the A team
you can cut you live, okay. And but mostly what
we do is the drummers out in the room okay,
everybody's in the control room playing and we get the

(01:07:21):
bones of what's going to work for the song okay,
and we just get to we get the drums on it,
and a lot of time we just take. We'll make
the drummer, just play a little drum loop okay of
the pattern, and we'll build the track on that and
it puts drums on.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Last. Most of the records I produced that were built
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Drums are the last thing we put on because everything
was built around good timing okay, almost like a grid,
so it was easier and records.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Now. More of the stuff I make now it's done
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
And because of the technology we have, we could just
send files to a bass player here, guitar player there,
a drummer here. I mean the stuff I news, I
said the guy you know, it'll be like a drum
loop I created with a machine and have him planned
in his house to send me to files whatever it takes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Okay, you talked about your lawyer. To what degree have
you had a manager or have the gigs just come
to you as or somebody in between.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
I've I've always had a manager. I mean I had
a brief run without one. When I first moved to
LA I got a manager named Steve Moyer and that
was his first engineer mixer client, and he was the
first manager of a mixer, an engineer, and we had
a hell of a run because he knew, you know,

(01:08:44):
he worked at labels. He knew these people said hey,
yeah right, Chris set in the files, give me a shot.
So look, you're the new kid in town. Everybody wants
to try you. And that worked out great. And then
I Leah Fahlberg, and then I went back to Bennett
Kaufman who worked for Steve, and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Now I have Stephen Rosen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
And it's about just putting me in positions that that
I don't get into. I mean, most of the clients
text or call me or email me, you know, the
repeat customers, they just come to me direct. But but
you know, with the manager, you get you get clients
that you would not normally get, situations that are different

(01:09:23):
people you don't have a connection with.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Okay, in the old days, the sixties and seventies, a
lot of times the engineer cut the record, mixed it.
So how did that change?

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Bob clear Mountain changed it good. Yeah, it was like
that until Bob Clearmountain or Michael Brower. I mean, I
just say, Bob Clearmount Broward would probably disagree with me.
There was a handful of situations where the mixer didn't
have his credit on the record. And but For me,

(01:10:00):
it was Bob okay, so we just wanted to clear
the mountain. We wanted a shot, so he became the gunslinger. Yes,
most of the engineer mixed the record. That was part
of your job. The mix was the easy part. You'd
make the record and when the last over deebleon on it,
you do your twiddling and that was it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
That was done. That's how I.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Learned that the engineer mixed it after the last over though,
and that's it goes to mastering. But then we move
on to Bob clear mountain, taking a song and mixing it.
And the great thing about that for me and I
think for him, is that you get the file, you
get the tape, you put it up, you get your

(01:10:40):
first impression, and you go with it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
Okay. It's like a first date. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
All the good stuff you ever want happens on that
one day, so you only have to care about it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
You don't have to live with it for months. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
So if you compare it to a first date, you
don't have to meet the family, the brothers and sisters,
the cousins, the Christmases, the thanksgivings. You just it is
have fun that one day it's over. So your first
impression on the song is always the best. So you
have no preconceived notions and you just go with it.
And I think that is the most successful thing a

(01:11:14):
producer can have, is that mixer who only hears it
the first time when he puts it up, and then
that's the great partnership between music creation and music finishing.
Is that first impression mixer that only hears it, and
his impression usually is what makes the song work.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Okay, you know you're gonna mix a record. To what
degree do the producers or the act give you input
or what degree is Chris, we did it here? It
is do your magic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Yeah, well there one hundred percent. There's I have clients
that just Chris, just do your magic. I know what
you do, I know what you're gonna do, I know
what to expect.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Just do it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
And then there's clients and you have artists that took
home a copy of the Roff and you listen to
it two, three, four, five, ten, twenty times. That's the
kiss of death. Then you have that marriage the artist
has with the ruff, and you got to beat the ruff.
You gotta supersize it. Okay, so you're a bit shackled
to that version. Look, once you heard a whole lot

(01:12:18):
of love ten times, do you want to hear it
any differently? So look, the artist gets the first copy
of the finished song, listen to it ten times, and
you go to remix it. Well, if if you change
it too much, you're like, well can you listen to
the ruff? And you know the four words I hate
hearing are let's check the ruff. That means that you

(01:12:42):
know there's something that I remember, and that takes the
fun out of mixing, trust me.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
So the first thing I check is like, are you
guys married to the rouff? How many times have you
heard with it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Just want to know what kind of hell of getting
myself in on because it's really no fun just matching
the ruff and picking up where someone left off, because
that's not mixing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
You know what I'm saying. Mixing is when you have
free reign, do what you want.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Because a lot of times I make a different arrangement
or I turn stuff off that I think is excessive.
You know, sometimes they put frecking three pounds of a
lord in a one pound bag and it sucks, So
I take half of it out and then all of
a sudden the song comes back, or I make eight
arrangements or changes. I have free will, I love free will,
free willie. You know they're not gonna do something different
that can show you what I think it should do,

(01:13:25):
or edits or shortening it. Some of these songs are
five and a half minutes long.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
What are you kidding?

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
No one's gonna care. They're looking at their watch, their bored.
Come on, hurry up and get us to the goddamn
corse before I fall asleep. So I try to bring
that to it, you know, I try to bring that.
Say look, here's what I think for your single three
minutes to fifteen seconds ware bamp, thank you man, want
to hear it again?

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
How often do you finish the mix and the producer
in the ax say, great, we're running with it, as
opposed to, oh can we change this? Change that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
I'd say ninety five percent they're good with it, and
the other five percent or maybe is it eight percent,
we'll have changes. I mean, we live in a world. Now,
I'll do a mix. I'll send that out on MP three.
You know, I just I said that a specific way
for a reference in a common format. Okay, and I'll

(01:14:23):
wait to hear back. Okay. Sometimes it's days. Sometimes it's
weeks before they even comment. My good clients, it's it's
usually within ten minutes, okay. And if the artist here,
obviously we close it right then and there. That's how
it works.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
So do you want the artists there or you definitely
don't want the artists there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
There's certain situations where their ownership is the only way
it gets closed. With green Day, they have to be
here to hear it, and then if there's like a
two percent change later, that's fine, but they have to
be here to approve and check it. And I like that,
and I find that with Dave Matthews. I find that

(01:15:05):
with Look with Dwight Yoakum one hundred percent. He's got
to be here with this little clip, you know, he
has we have a way of doing things, and you know,
it's stuff I work with John Shanks.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
You got to be here. I prefer it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
It goes quicker that way because they're here, they own it.
It's over, okay. And if something comes up later, we
have a recall rally. We just you know, tweak a
couple of songs. So, but there's a situation where I'd
prefer to mix the whole album, have the band come
in for one day, review a couple of songs they
want to change it, and then knock it out.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Okay, So how long does it take to do a mix?

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
A couple hours? It depends on how messy the song is,
how well put together it is. First you have to
untangle it and make it manageable. So yeah, it can
be a couple of hours. It just depends on how
much focus I have. Because we live in a world
where there's so many distractions, you got to shut it
all off and do the job. So if I come

(01:16:06):
in and shut it all off, which is what I
usually do, I just stay focused until it's done. I
don't leave the room until I finish it. Then I
check my phone, then I do that. You know, if
I have distractions, your phone calls, it's slows the process.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Then, and how many can you do in a day
before you just can't do it anymore?

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
You know, if I'm mixing an album where there's similarities
in the recording from song to song two or three,
sometimes four, I mean a cheap trick record, I've done
seven in one day. Because you know, there because the
recording is so similar that it's almost like a live album,
you know, because a lot of it's very the same,

(01:16:44):
So it's just you know, different transitions, so.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
It can happen that way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
How often do you finish it and the act want
changes that you don't agree with? Then what do you say?

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
I mean that, Like I said in the you know
five to seven percent range, there's changes. Do I agree
with them? Well, a lot of times no. Sometimes it's
just personal taste or it's an arrangement thing. But when
there are things I don't agree with, then I know, well,
you know what I If you want that much mayonnaise
on your French fries, okay, here you go. I try

(01:17:22):
to talk them out of it, or I try to,
you know, make the change where I'm happy with it
still for me, you know, the mixer knows how he
can make all these elements works and knows what the
give and take is. That's why you hire me because
I have the experience to know how I can make
all these puzzle pieces coexist.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
And sometimes the minutia from a guitar player or a
drummer or a bass player or whatever, it's always just
their personal interest being boosted or something that really doesn't
help the mix, okay, or maybe something is because they're
hearing impaired or just something they heard in a rough mix.
So I'm looking at the big picture, what makes the

(01:18:01):
song work?

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
Okay? And is this going to help?

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Okay? Let's go back to the producing end. To what
degree do you tell them to change the song, rearrange
the song or you're more just getting it down and
making decisions.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
I mean, we get it down and I take the
file home and I change the arrangement, I change parts,
I'll replay things. Okay, with a young artists that up producing,
I mean I'll take his demo and I'll cut it
up and change the arrangement and we'll replay all the parts.
So yeah, I mean while we're in here working on
it together, we'll work on the arrangement right away. I mean,

(01:18:38):
the most important thing is the arrangement and the key.
Everything else is just minutia. It doesn't matter. A melody,
a tempo, and an arrangement. Those are the first three
building blocks of a song. After that it's all personal
taste or what you want to do to the song,
and then that's what works.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
And what about lyrics.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Lyrics are important and all but lyrics are Lyrics are
very important, but they're also a personal journey because most
of the lyrics are about, uh, something can happen in
your life, Okay. So I try to help them make
sure that the lyrics make sense and we can understand
the lyrics. Okay, And sometimes I change to say will
this be better? Doesn't it mean the same if you

(01:19:22):
say this versus that, because what you're saying there is
a little bit of a tongue tie.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Is this easier? Does this sing better?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
So I'll change it with them if it sings better,
if it gets the point across. And then there's the
problems where if a song has fucking it do you have?
Can you say something else? No? Just beep it, dude. No,
if the song's called fuck the world, can you say
something else? Because that's gonna cause you a problem, no
matter what about judging it?

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Great, fine, whatever you know? That's you know in a mix.
So I always encourage ours. If you're gonna say fuck
or you're gonna swear, come on, let's at least have
an alternate lyric for the Bible belt.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Okay, how often you put up a mix and you
hear a hit and you know it when you hear.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
It A lot, a lot, I mean a lot. I
can tell that these puzzle pieces are working.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
And I call it the fly paper effect.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Okay, If I can walk out of the room, get
on the phone, hear the news, hear another song, and
still remember this one, that's the beginnings of a hit
for me. If I wake up the next morning after
hearing a bunch of other things and still remember that song,
it's a hit. It's like the bottom being song with
Green Day. But no, no, no, no, no, no no no

(01:20:43):
no no no, like no matter what, I can still
hear that melody botta bing botta bing botta boo's.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
It's a stupid part, but it's it's to catch you
as shit. So if I can remember that, then I
feel it it stands a chance.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
How'd you get to work with Green Day?

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
I mean I was working with Rob way back.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
I was working with Rob Canvalla.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
He had this band called Kars Flowers that was the
makings of Maroon five, and we started our friendship there
and we moved through a bunch of different artists and
then this Nimrod album came along and he wanted me
to take a whack at it for him, and and
the rest is history, I mean, and then we worked
on a bunch together. They took a break from me
for a record or two, and then they came back

(01:21:30):
again recently and it's working for them. And I personally
think when a band creates a team that worked, stick
with it, because those other flavors of the week don't
know where the bodies are buried and don't know how
to put those puzzle pieces together. Okay, they just they're
a shinier new hot fudged Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
So how does it feel when someone says we're going
to go another way?

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
I have no issue.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
I don't take it personally, Okay, I'll say, like, look,
let's do this. Give me the song that your guys
gonna do, and at least let me send you in
a mix that my mix, and you guys can blind
you know, blind test it. Just do a blind tasting. Whatever,
pick the winner. That's happened once in a while, and
as long as it's fair, it's a you know, as

(01:22:18):
long as it's fair and everything's the same volume, you
let the artist pick maybe maybe the new guy's better.

Speaker 3 (01:22:24):
You know, I have no I have no personal thing
about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
I like to win, and I could be a real
asshole about it, but I don't like to be discounted,
like at least give me a chance, you know. With
Peter Gabriel, I kept emailing him and by large, give
me a chance to mix a song for free. I'll
even pay you. I just want a mix on the record.
Is it that hard to let me have a file?

(01:22:49):
I just wanted a shot, that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
Don't care. I just like Peter Gabriel.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
What's the state of the remixing business?

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Too? Well, the remixing it's like, what's the state of
the mixing business?

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
Right? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
I mean the mixing business is basically chosen by the
producer and the artist, Okay, or the label or the manager.
But I think it's really producer driven and the artists
they usually pick. Remixing is the problem more in right
now because of that most But no, the mixing is
still it's really it's simple a lot of times. Remember,

(01:23:34):
you know, the artist has your little team, and that's
how it goes. Hiring out a gun slinger like me
and Bob isn't as frequent as it used to be
because they can all mix in their bathrooms at this point.
But still there is the knowledge that your fan base
wants a cla or a clear Mountain or this guy
or it's you know or Serbon Serbon who mixes like

(01:23:57):
all the tale all the big pop stuff because he's good, right,
so you get your run, So it's loyalty. The remixing
problem I see is in the atmost stuff, and it's
getting sorted out. In the beginnings of atmost stereo. You know,
Apple's Atmost I call Apples atmost. They needed content anyway

(01:24:21):
they could get it, so regardless of who did it,
they made some mistakes. And for me, unless the mix
is approved by the artists that originally did it, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
Not fair to put it out. To put it up
on the site.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
So whether it's Rebel Yell, whether it's unless the whole
band is dead and there's nobody around going to improve it,
well whatever, but make sure the artist gets at least
to hear it and say, yeah, that's good, I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
I'll sign off on that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
It's respect that something they created that you manipulate for
a new format, that they get to prove it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
That's simple, and that wasn't happening.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
Okay. You know, the business has evolved like everything else.
And for the last twenty years, labels we're talking about
a major label will invest in a single song, they'll
get additional songwriters, et cetera, and they'll pay a producer
an unbelievable premium and a remixer an unbelievable premium. Is

(01:25:28):
that's something that's in the world that you're in because
in a lot of other worlds, uh, mastering, the prices
have dropped to the floor. Okay, another thing, So what's
the status? What's what's going on in your world?

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
I mean, I don't you know the pop world where
they're you know, they're going through that. I'm not that
much involved because I get the song when it's done. Okay,
when it's all done and they want they want somebody
else to mix it, I do it, okay. So that
world mastering, they usually want my choice.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
Okay. If and if they.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
Don't like what he did, well I'll have him try
to make him better. Okay, the stuff they'll you know,
the uh, that's where my business is. So it's pretty
much straight fan base. People send you stuff to work on,
and they also manage and produce some man so I
like both sides of the coin. I like to produce

(01:26:23):
for a while and then come in knock out some
mixes because it keeps the variety flowing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
So is compensation stayed steady, going down or going up?

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
The mixing compensation is pretty steady, pretty much steady. The
producing compensation it varies because a lot of times you're
doing a lot of pro bono work. So look, you
find a new artist, you're doing it all for free
and hope you strike gold and hopefully you'll get him
out of the road making some money, and or you'll
have a band where you're literally just take a piece

(01:26:54):
of the road. I mean, there is no money for
records as far as I'm concerned, Like I would much
prefer to just have a piece of the merch because
that's real money.

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
That's that's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
If the band plays one hundred shows a year and
they sell x amount of merch, it's a guarantee that
your producer's fee is the merch. So selling records doesn't
really make money. I mean it's just a piece of merch.
So you know, streaming doesn't make money. Songwriter royalties that

(01:27:25):
makes money. I mean, it's it's improving, but it's a
whole different planet.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
So over your career as a mixer, have you gotten
royalty points, flat fees? What's the status in the past?

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
And then today, at a certain point in my career,
everyone start paying a point. So I earned the point
on every mix, and while CDs were still selling twenty
thirty million dollars, that's real money. Okay, those royalties added
up because you're getting a royalty based on the sale

(01:28:01):
of a CD, a hard piece of record. Now they've
actually because they're making a vinyl, you're getting a royalty
on that. The royalty on sound exchange and streaming, well,
I don't know, it's not like it used to be.
So back in Atlantis Morris set when she had Jag
a Little Pill, the CDs are selling thirty million, forty million,

(01:28:23):
twenty million.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
That's the heyday, right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
So if you had royalties back then and it stayed
at that and stayed and kept going at that rate,
it would have been a whole different landscape financially. But
once Napster came in and they were in denial about
you can copy CDs, it was over and then it
all changed. So now it's like, Okay, a lot of

(01:28:48):
times it's better just do the buyout then get a percentage,
but we basically get a percentage a point on everything.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
And how busy are you?

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
I mean, it's six seven days a week, as busy.
It's as busy as I want to be. I'm as
busy as I want to be. And I do enjoy.
Like I said, I'm going between producing and mixing, so
I like not just being the mix just pounding the
mixes out. And the utmost work is very booming right
now because maybe my approach.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
How much outmost work? Are you doing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
A ton every record?

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
And we're going back and right now I'm picking records
I want to do that haven't been done yet, and
I'm preferring to go back to stuff seventies early eighties
when it was two twenty four tracks or one to
twenty four track, you know, the first you know, first
albums by artists that those albums that may be artists okay,

(01:29:51):
that are only twenty four track okay, And that's what
I want. I don't want to be untangling like mid
tow you know, two thousand or the ninety nine two
thousand where pro tools and sessions and figuring out where
the files. I don't want to go through that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
Okay, we were talking that you believe the original engineer
should do the utmost mix.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
If possible, or be involved.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
I mean, I really believe that the only way to
save the past for the future, or to reconnect with
it is to get the original people involved. To first
make sure that the assets of these earlier records are intact.
You have that to begin with, and if they could
have some involvement and come in and shed some light on,

(01:30:39):
you know, their impressions of what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:30:42):
That to me, it's important. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
It shouldn't be just a money grab. Ooh I could
get I could do all these outmost mixes and make money. No,
that's not the concept here. Our job is to serve
the artists and serve the music. If you do anything else,
you're serving yourself and guys that are doing the money grab,
that's just serving your wallet. Do the right thing for
these records. Come on, I don't care if it's more work,
Just do the right thing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Okay. On a remix as opposed to a new record,
is there enough money to do it your way.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
Not really, We're trying to eke out a eke out
a way where you know, because look, to make an
at most mix, you have to recreate the stereo mix first,
because the sonic palette has to be built in. Okay, yes,
you can take an original recording, throw it in your
at most computer, use your plugins, and go that way.

(01:31:35):
But my attitude is like, look, I want to remix
it in stereo. Get all that magic that they had
to create. Okay, match the stereo mix and then break
that out into the pieces you need for at moosts.
This way, I know that when I just put output
those things, it's going to be that record. Now, maybe
I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
Okay, you have the stereo mix now, needless to say
that's the way it was originally mixed. Or two speakers.
Stereo philosophies have changed. You know, used to be certain
things in different speakers. Now everything merge drums in both speakers,
et cetera. You got a stereo mix, what do you
do to create an app most mix?

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:32:18):
Once, but I'm saying once you match.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
Say let's let's, for example, take listen to the music
the first Doobie Brothers record.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
Okay, So the first thing I want to do is
I want to match. I want to match the mix.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
So I want to have their mix on one button
and then my console on another so I can compare. Okay,
what's making make it all? I want to make the
picture match right as close as possible to what they did.

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Once I have that all automated and perfect, I print that, okay,
and then I can do a full capture of every
individual part and then put that in another computer and
all the sonic qualities and all the balances are intact.
You got to match the stereo first. You can't do
that on an atmost rig. You got to do it
in stereo. So there's many ways. That's just the way

(01:33:08):
I do it. I want to match the stereo first
because I know once I match that, the autmost will match.

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
Okay, you say you match the stereo, and then you
go back to the multi track and then break it
out because it's already EQ et cetera compressed the way
you like it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Well, you're yeah, you're you're you're playing the multi track
through your console and it's automated obviously, right, and you
can and once the mixes match then you're playing that
automation and then you're gonna you're gonna literally capture every fader,
all forty four faders and all the rever of it effects.
You're all gonna get captured to like sixty four tracks.

(01:33:45):
Then you're gonna take that new multi track, put it
in atmost and literally if you just output it spatially,
that balance should be very close to the record.

Speaker 3 (01:33:54):
And then you go from there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
But you've you've an act taken the piece of art
and putting all the colors in the right places, okay,
and then then you can go three dimensional with it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
Okay, So what's the philosophy on where to put what sounds?

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
That's where it's the wild wild West for me.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
I want you know, for me, we want to sit
in the in the sound field and just move things
around so it stays cohesive, but you you're able to
get some more definition and give give parts some more placement.
I mean, it's great with a live thing because you
can make it sound like you're sitting in the room, okay,
and you can move things around, so it just gives

(01:34:33):
it a more three dimensionality. And that's really the concept
is like you want to have a new experience with
an old friend. I think atmos is literally a new
experience with an old friend that you know very well,
and all of a sudden things about your old friend. Wow,
I didn't know that about you. I did not know

(01:34:53):
that you did that. You know, I did not know
that you come from the moon. And but you hear
you hear th in the song that that you didn't
hear before, or you hear clarity and like, wow, I
didn't know those backgrounds did that. That's cool? Or I
didn't know that guitar did that. It was like all
met you know, it was all speared together. So it
gives you a different experience, and you can just surround

(01:35:17):
yourself with the song in like a sphere, like a
you know, like a sphere, a round sphere, rather than
just have these two points of light. And don't get
me wrong, almost can be really distracting if if you
do it, and if you do certain things, but you're
trying to make it where you're not like like swinging
your head goes, oh what's that? Where'd that go? What's
that about? No, you want to just make it like

(01:35:37):
your experiences. Wow, this is the greatest stereo ever and
I think that should be what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
Okay, what's a reference track you use that you did
mix and one that you did mix that people can
check out at most?

Speaker 3 (01:35:53):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
Well, I obviously the the El John's Soon. Uh Rocketman
is a great atmospherex because look rocket Man, even the title,
even the lyric, the landscape alone makes you feel about it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Look as far as mine. Just look at.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Current Green Day or Nimrod or or My Jovi or
any of the any of the ones that we've put
up there.

Speaker 3 (01:36:22):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
And these current artists will show you what I've been doing, okay,
and the excitement we've done. I mean, I have a
really cool Steve Hackett when it's not up there yet.
But the law of a live show I kind of
like the live version of aut most stuff because you
can really feel like you're sitting in a venue.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
So why did you move to California?

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Uh? You know this this guy, Tommy Mattola, he lives
on the road, and uh, I was working for him.
He said, I got this girl, I got this artist
I'd like you to work with.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
I'm like, okay, because.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
I was doing a couple of things for Carle and
Hall of Oates and Holly Knight, and she had a
band called Device, but this is now her first solo
album and she had some success.

Speaker 3 (01:37:07):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
The Best was a big single for her, and I did.
I did that record as a mixer an engineer with
Dan and said, you'll be good for it.

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
She needs someone like you to help her make this record.
I'm like, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
So we're working at the Hit Factory and she wanted
to finish the record, do all the vocals and final
overdubs because it was cheaper, and she had a little
studio in her house. So I said, chure, I'll come
out there and we'll work on at your house. And
I worked on it there with her. We became very
close friends and finished the record and I just stayed.
What's not to like. I'm a rag talk man. I

(01:37:42):
can out a convertible and have good weather. And I
just never went I you know, I didn't go back.
I mean, I go back and visit Mom and my family,
but once I was there, I just stayed at eighty eight.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
And what's the difference between the East Coast and the
West Coast for you?

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
The pizza, the bangels to hot dogs, I hear you, right,
the attitude it's you know, hey, you know what out here?
Well it our weather has been kind of it's a
different year now, But it used to be in New
York every weekend from like April to September would rain

(01:38:22):
every weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
Was ship here.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
Every day is perfect, so I could have the top
down like the whole year and if it rained, it
was a novelty. This year opposite, but uh no, just
different lifestyle. Plus it was booming out here. It was
it was more suburbia. It wasn't the city. It wasn't
driving trying to park in Manhattan and you know, and
helping around the city. It was like everything's residential, spread out.

(01:38:45):
Everyone's got a car. You know, there's a lot of
studios at a lot of different clients, a lot of
different action. It was just different fun.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
And what's the difference in the people.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
I mean the East Coast and the orcer. You know,
it's like a jerky boy. Everyone's got a you know comment.
You know, everybody's you know, they got an apigion. You know,
you come here, it's a little bit more easy going,
a little more easy going, and uh back in New York,
it's like, you know, everyone's Brett Weir or Frank Rizzo.

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
You know this accent, there's an attitude, there's an edge.
You know. I love it, like Troy Germano my good buddy.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
So I love going back there and refreshing my my, my, my,
this my vibe or my accent, so it doesn't vanish.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
So you know, this is a business with a lot
of hours. Has your personal life suffered.

Speaker 3 (01:39:39):
Yeah, my whole career, it has totally.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
To this day, it suffers because I don't know, I
have a hunger for this stuff really hard.

Speaker 3 (01:39:51):
I lust after it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
I mean I wake up sometimes six in the morning
I'm editing songs, so I can never seems like I
can never get enough of the music. And I really
have to force myself to, like, Okay, go working in
the backyard, go work on the property, Okay, put all
that effort into the into stuff other things. So my
favorite sport is bike riding with the e bike and

(01:40:12):
the mounts of Switzerland. I mean that's all I like
to do. So I try to have a social life,
but yeah, it's if you're hanging out with me, you
better be into music because that's going to be first
and foremost most of the time. But uh, yeah, it
is it is in eat your life. And I think
the only way to be successful is to have that lust,

(01:40:32):
that that lust for it and uh it's new every
day and have that energy. A lot of people that
work in the music business they seem retired from it emotionally,
and it's like, Okay, you're not excited about this anymore,
or I am like it's like, you know, like a
brand new toy. So I still enjoy it. So it's

(01:40:53):
not it's I'd never take it for granted, not one
single minute.

Speaker 1 (01:40:57):
And to what degree is this life affected your love relationships? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:41:03):
Usual eurek'savocate on just about every single one of them.
But like with anything, you you you put the same
energy you put into music into your love life or
to your life whatever, and then eventually you'll take that
for granted and the music will take over again. And
I don't know, it's it's it's hard. I mean, look,
you know where your priorities are and you'll put them there. So, uh,

(01:41:26):
I have a great situation and I'm happy, you know,
I'm happy with that. So I like to keep my
my personal life private and my family private. But uh,
my music, you know, is is that disease I've caught
from my mother.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
Okay, producers, what's a good producer? I mean, you're mixing
and they're coming in before. What makes a good producer
on the outside? Who are a couple of ones you
like to work with?

Speaker 2 (01:41:53):
I mean, let's go back to at the beginning, uh,
back to you know. The one that I thought was
probably the best I worked with was Dan Hartman. It
was amazing what I learned from him and how he
would just do all the things I said about taking
control of a situation. And I think a great producer
is one that also can play. I mean someone like

(01:42:15):
Rob Cavallo who he knows how to he knows how
to play. That helps him navigate the band and that's
a lot of it. And John Shanks the same way.
He's a great player, so he gets respect from the
artist because he really loves working on the record.

Speaker 3 (01:42:30):
He loves the music.

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
And then there's a friend of mine I've been mixing
for hundreds and hundreds of years, Julian Raymond, who works
with Scott Borchetta. A great producer. He knows exactly what
to do, and he's loyal. He knows that he literally
makes records that are made for me to mix because
he knows that that team effort really works well. And
I've seen I've seen many of the new I mean,

(01:42:53):
Max Martin is an amazing producer because all he cares
about is a song and then he crafts the sonics
to match what's in his head. And but Lang the
same way. It's like he hears the final record done
in his head and the struggle is getting it there.
And that's Mut's thing. He already hears it done and

(01:43:14):
he puts the song together before Like I mean, you
compare Back in Black. It's not even that complicated, but
the build is right, you know. Hysteria is where he
took it as far as it could go for that era.

Speaker 3 (01:43:28):
It made something. It still sounds better than most records
today sonically.

Speaker 1 (01:43:33):
Okay, But Mutt, I'm with you there, Mutt really doesn't
work anymore so in your particular case, where you've been
doing it for forty years, closer to fifty years, you
say you're still hungry. You must have had moments where
you said, man, I'm burned out or it doesn't mean
as much to me, or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
Uh, I do, And that's where I'm selective about what
I work on. If I see if I see one
of those one of those gigs, I know is not
going to interest me. If it's not gonna light my fire,
I'm out of here, you know. So if if it's
something that I feel is going to be work and
not fun, I don't do it. I don't care who
it is. Uh So I'll turn away. And I like

(01:44:17):
to take taking on the bigger challenges. I like to
do the live broadcast too, because that's what I call
a real ball wiggler. That means that separates the men
from the boys. When you're doing an artist at Coachella
or at an award show or Grammys or whatever you know,
CMA's or something where it's a lot of stress, that's
separates the men from the boys. Eric Shilling, that guy

(01:44:38):
is like the iceman. He is cool as a cucumber,
never even raises his voice. Me. I'm a freaking big mouth,
so I'm always yelling. But that guy doesn't get rattled.
And that that's a serious pro doing all those broadcasts.

Speaker 3 (01:44:54):
But you know, I want to get burned.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
I gonna Switzerland for a month and ride a bikes
in the mountains, and I don't listen to music. I
hear cows, and I hear yoldling and alpine horns, and
that makes me happy.

Speaker 1 (01:45:06):
Well, will you go alone or with your wife?

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Or h I start alone? I liked, I need, I
need a week, or I just get up every morning.
I could take my bike going to train, go on
the trail, get out there by myself.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
Where is this in Switzerland?

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
Uh, Lucern or Interlockin? You know, I have a lot
of friends there.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
And just to rejuvenate, you know, I think you got
to get out in nature and just be alone and
uh just you know, be alone with your thoughts and
be alowd nature. Just take all that white noise. We're
so surrounded with white noise from the phones. Well you
have none of that. It's great. The only thing on
the phone is the Strava that tells you where you

(01:45:47):
know that or a map.

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
I just use it for that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
But now it's a nice break from it all, and
then it's all new again when you start back up.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
Okay, you mentioned earlier. Listen to the music, the first
Doobie Brothers hit. You mentioned Jagged Little Pill, you mentioned
led Zeppelin, the cassette and uh back in Black. These
are all iconic records, not only the iconic, they're great records.
What do you think about the music today compared to

(01:46:16):
those eras well?

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
I think right now what's being made? I mean my
concern now is is it going to stand a test
of time? Is in twenty years a new record gonna
you know, still feels like something you're gonna want to hear.
Is it gonna pass through the generations? One of my concerns,
and I think one of the concerns I have with

(01:46:41):
new music versus old is something that I feel that
I'm partially responsible for is compression. Like some of these
pop records are this disposable music is so compressed, so limited,
it's it's unlistenable in a in a you know, in
a teenage way. You know, it's unlistenable on standard listening,
like on a high thigh on a stereo, to sit

(01:47:03):
back with a with a glass of wine and listen
to a record.

Speaker 3 (01:47:07):
It's all made for disposable.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
So I think some of these creations are overly spanked,
overly compressed, and uh, only made to last this very
short journey. We're not seeing these you know, Rolling Stones
albums or these great records. Maybe they'll come back, maybe
they'll be a little bit more open as I'm hoping.
I mean, I know we've you know, we've created a

(01:47:31):
different sound, a more forward, more upfront, less dynamic sound
in songs, which is fine, but uh, I really think
it's about the songs and it's about the artist, and
I think what happened in the past is the limitations
of technology created music that stands at test of time,

(01:47:52):
where all the having all the tools creates a laziness
that makes more disposable music.

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
Do you affect your sound to be current with what's happening?

Speaker 3 (01:48:07):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
The funny thing is that I always hear things the
same way since I started. I always hear it the
same way in my head, and as it a ranger
or a player, I hear certain things in my head.
I never think about, well, let's put this on this
because current. I never think about it that way. I
never think about, let me listen to some sounds for
current record and use those sounds. I'm like, I never

(01:48:28):
think of it that way. I don't know, I don't
I'm not influenced by that. I listened to like the
Lamb or Steve Steve Hackett or I've listened it to
Steven Wilson on my spare time or news radio. I'm
not listening to the ringio going oh, yeah, that that's
pretty cool. Maybe I should do that. Never, I just
I don't know. I just do what I think and
that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
How much do you keep up on new music?

Speaker 3 (01:48:50):
I don't. I mean, yeah, I mean I will keep up.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
I'll look at I'll look and check out some new
artists and people I like and see what they done.

Speaker 3 (01:49:00):
And yeah, I'll do the.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
Radio scrolling, you know, my truck and I'll just be
scrolling through all those channels, like, okay, so here's the
country station, here's the rot Oh there's that. Oh that's cool.
Who's that? Oh that's not bad? What's that lyric? Okay, good,
I'll listen to it. But yeah, I just stay current
as far as hearing new things, but as far as
what I'm going to listen to. Whatever, relaxing I'll put
in the Lamb two albums or Quadraphedia. I mean, Quadraphedia

(01:49:28):
is a win every time.

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
Quadraphenie the original album with a great cover with Vinyl.
It was remixed. John Eden Twistle was involved for the
movie and The mix is better, I feel than the original. Listen.
There's so many versions since then, but I remember buying it.
The lyrics it was less cloudy, it was more defined.

(01:49:52):
But anybody you haven't worked with you want to work with.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
Yeah, I wanted it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
Borkwori McCartney ever got to do that. I wanted to
mix a Stones record. I mean, I've worked with Mick,
but like this deal with that Andrew Watson. I just
wanted to mix a Stones record. I just wanted to
have that. You know, I wanted to mix a real
Who record, but I think that ship is sailed right
my heroes.

Speaker 3 (01:50:13):
I just wanted to work with some of my heros.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
Of course, I wanted to work on some Zeppelin' ac DC,
you know, all those Titans. I wanted to have at
least a chip in that game. And I mean I
got to work with the Elton I did the Dodger
Sati of Live thing, which is great because my friend's
in the band. So I got to work with, you know,
artists I seriously respect, and there's more to come, like Peter.
I loved working with Peter and Dwight. I mean that

(01:50:37):
guy's not easy. But you know, if you can make
him happy. It's important. He's an amazing musician, an amazing player,
and he's I've learned a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:50:49):
About music from him.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
He's a very smart guy and very passionate about his
music and how it sounds. And I've been in charge
of that for a while now. And I would hate
to be his guitar rodeo on stage because he is particular.

Speaker 3 (01:51:05):
But he's right.

Speaker 1 (01:51:05):
You know, how'd you get the gig with Elton?

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
Kim Bullard's keyboard player, A close friend of mine lives
up the street. We've been friends for thirty years and
I've always wanted to work on some outh stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:51:16):
He goes, well, here's your chance.

Speaker 2 (01:51:18):
So so you know, the offer came in and it's like,
just match the fee they wanted to pay, Bob, and
you're in, okay, and do it the short amount of time. Fine.
And when they all went to Emmy and you don't, well,
just suck it up. So maybe I'll get to Emmy,
maybe I won't.

Speaker 3 (01:51:35):
Who knows? Did mix it?

Speaker 1 (01:51:37):
Okay? And you have these classes? What's the story with that?

Speaker 3 (01:51:42):
I like giving back?

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
So Mix with the Masters is a platform that we
teach kids about mixing, about producing you can do it
over a course of a week. We could do it
with online videos. You can do it at four day.
I'm literally leaving tomorrow to do a master class that's
Sweetwater for two days to teach. You know, kids that
are hungry about learning. What would Chris do? It's really

(01:52:06):
what how does Chris do this? So I show them
exactly what I do? Am I worried about? Well, if
I show everyone what I do, then no one's gonna
want me. Well, no one's going to get my head
and copy that. So I like sharing and showing kids,
look kids, showing anybody who wants to do this, Well,
here's here's my experience, and here's what I've done, and

(01:52:28):
here's what might help you. And a lot of it's
just how you run your business and and how you
work with audio and how you deal with it. Just
try to help them in a career that doesn't make money.

Speaker 3 (01:52:39):
It's all. It's all about time.

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
So if you can, if you can, you know, if
you can be good at what you do and do
it efficiently, you can enjoy it, you know, so I
enjoyed the teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:52:52):
Give me two things that you would immediately tell your students.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
Is to take it seriously or get another job that
look at it as a career and a life time thing,
not as a hobby.

Speaker 3 (01:53:05):
Okay, that's the first thing. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
The second thing is take control of it, Okay, and
then you'll have it. You'll have a chance. And it's
not a guarantee that what you hear they're gonna like,
but give it a shot, because that's the whole thing
with anything in the music, Like what you hear in
your head maybe way wrong, and no matter what you do,
they're not gonna like it. So you may end up
being just an engineer for hire to record stuff. But

(01:53:30):
your opinion is really the lucky thing that people if
you have the right ears to hear it a certain
way that you think that they'll like, and they like it.

Speaker 3 (01:53:39):
That's the win.

Speaker 2 (01:53:40):
It's not about eke here, it's not about compression they're
about It's nothing to do with the tools.

Speaker 3 (01:53:45):
Nope, it's a state of mind. That's the win.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
Well, this has been a win, Chris. I want to
thank you so much for taking the time with my audience.
You're a fountain of information. There are many other layers.
I know you're busy, so thanks a lot for doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:54:01):
You are quite welcome, Bob.

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
I love to see you at the next amazing event
there because you're a music lover and you're seem to
be at all the right ones.

Speaker 1 (01:54:11):
That's where I run into you at the Greek Theater
and elsewhere. In any event, this has been Bob Left
sets with Chris Lord Algae. I just want to take
a moment to give credit to Margaret Middleman, who for
the last couple of years has been the coordinator on
this show, the grease who makes this work. She is
moving on, so kudos to Margaret. In any event, Chris,

(01:54:34):
thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob Left
stets