In this episode, Lisa discusses the rise of anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiment on college campuses, the factors contributing to this trend, and the potential legal repercussions for universities with Josh Hammer. They also touch on the ongoing legal cases against Donald Trump in New York City and the potential outcomes. The conversation highlights the role of social media in spreading anti-Semitic propaganda and the need for society to take these issues seriously. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've been discussing the Marxist revolution that has been underway
in this country for a long time, particularly on college campuses.
We're seeing those efforts from the left bear fruit now
as a hostile takeover is happening at universities across the country,
(00:20):
where we see Prohamas students, Marxist students occupy a hall
at Columbia University, videos of these students clashing with police
officers at VCU, or blocking Jewish students from attending class
at UCLA, students physically assaulted. So where is this going?
(00:43):
When does this end? How does it end? I'm going
to have my friend Josh Hammer on this show. He's
been on before. He wears a lot of different hats.
He's a senior editor at large at Newsweek, He's the
host of The Josh Hammer Show and America on Trial
with Josh Hammer on the First TV.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
He's a lawyer, so we're going to get his take.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
On all of what I just talked about about what's
happening at universities across the country. What legal liability do
some of these universities have. We're also going to talk
about the Donald Trump's trial in New York City. What
should you know about that? What's the latest? Where is
that headache? So all of that and more with my
friend Josh Hammer. Stay tuned. Well, Josh, it's good to
(01:29):
have you on, my friend. It's been a while, not
since we talked, but since I've had you on the show.
So glad to have you back list.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
It's always a pleasure my friend. And you know, we
talk a lot offline, but it was great to do
so on the air with you as well.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah. Absolutely, you know, Josh, I mean we've all been
communicating with horror about you know what we're saying on
colleges and university campuses, you know, across the country. I
mean Columbia University, they occupy it a hall on campus.
We've seen videos of police clashing with students at vias.
You Jewish students blocked from attending classes at UCLA, students assaulted,
(02:06):
I think one, you know, according to the video, we
even got taste.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
When does this end?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You know?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Lisa, The way that I opened my most recent episode
of my show, The Josh Hammer Show, was I literally
opened with a monologue basically saying, is this Nazi Germany?
I mean the stuff that we are seeing right now
on American university campuses is so far past the line
(02:32):
of a Zionism versus anti Zionism debate, a debate over
whether we should create a new Palestinian state, or whether
Israel should incorporate all of the West Bank or whatnot.
I mean, we are so far beyond that when you
have people literally waving the flags of US recognized foreign
terrorist organizations Hamas and Hesbala, forming human chains to not
(02:56):
allow someone to set foot on campus because he's wearing
a key pah a yamaka, or is wearing a Maga David,
a Jewish Star of David necklace. I mean, the stuff
that we're seeing, Lisa, it's unfathomable. I mean, I look around,
I pinch myself, like, is this happening in America? Is
this the United States of America? And it is, and
(03:18):
it is the result of such a tragic confluence of factors,
and I guess if I had to pinpoint some of
those factors. On the one hand, this is obviously the
chickens coming home to roost of the cultural Marxist revolution
that swept through the university campus is really beginning in
earnest with the rise of the Frankfurt school. In the
nineteen sixties. Chris Ruffo had a whole book documenting this
(03:38):
rise through the institutions that came out last summer. He
Chris did a great job of that book. So you're
seeing some of those chickens come home to roost. The
folks who are students back then are now the leaders
of departments and universities all across the country. And then
you have this horrific immigration trends, the broad importation of
foreigners who simply do not share anything remotely resembling our values,
(04:00):
and then their promotion through the system via racist gimmick
such as affirmative action programs and emissions. I mean, it's
just this whole toxic brew lease up. But ultimately, and
this is the this is the key point for your audience.
I think you know this, but you know this is
important for It is important for your audience to know
it's ultimately not about the juice. It's ultimately not about Israel.
If you look at what's happening at Harvard Campus and
(04:22):
Harvard Yard, apparently the American flag typically flies over a
statue of John John Winthrop I believe is the founding
father figure there, and they took down the American flag
on Harvard's campus, and they put up the plo flat
the Palestinian flat. And there was a pamphlet on a
similar note that pamphleteers pro Palestinian pamphleteers, you know, these
(04:46):
little mini Jihattist miscreants. They distributed this pamphlet in ann Arbor, Michigan,
where by the way, I was shoudowed down by a
pro Hamas mob back in November when I was trying
to give a speech.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
But hold that aside.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
On that same campus and ann Arbor last week they
were distributing a pamphlet that said, quote freedom for Palestine
means death for America. That's what they actually believe. Israel
is just the canarian the coal mine, just just as
the Jews have always been the canary in the coal mine.
I actually was reading the Hamas Charter. It's not exactly
fun reading, it's fairly grim reading. But I was rereading
(05:18):
it a few weeks ago as part of the book
that I'm that I'm now working on in writing, and
I was struck that they don't just call for the
death of all Jews. They obviously do do that. Hamas
also causes calls explicitly for the death of Christians and
those who else they describe as infidels. So that's ultimately
what's going on here, Lisa, and that's a very important
point to make it well.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And that's what I've been, you know, kind of trying
to wrap my head around, you know, is this just
anti Semitism, which is awful and evil? So I didn't
mean it, you know, it was just but or is it,
you know, Marxism or is it all of it? And
I mean you can go back and even look at
like the Red Guards and how they you know, this
mass student led paramilitary social movement mobilized by Mao, or
(05:59):
you look at back at you know colleges, you know
where they blocked Jews, you know, before the Holocaust, and
so it's like, you know, I mean, I don't know,
like is that where Where is this headache?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I guess?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I mean nowhere good? I mean, the the short answer
is nowhere good. So if you look historically on anti Semitism,
which has existed for essentially as long as humans have existed,
I mean, the Babylonians ransacked Solomon's Temple in the sixth
century BCE, the Romans conquered Judaea with the destruction of
the Second Temple in the or seventy nine. I mean
anti Semitism, hatred Jews goes back essentially to the Jews
(06:36):
forming in the first place, but especially over the past
call it millennium, over the past roughly thousand years or so,
when you look at societies that have seen explosive rises
in anti Semitism, and to be clear, you know, I
think a lot of what we're seeing a campus is
reminiscent of nineteen thirties era Hitler youth. When it comes
to the rhetoric, I am not actually analogizing the United
(06:59):
States to Nazi Germany. I want to be very clear
about that. I'm just saying the rhetoric on campus sometimes
is genuinely by the far extremists, does seem to be
reaching that tone there. But in any event, when you
kind of take a broader view of the let's call
it the past five hundred to one thousand years, and
look at societies that have had explosive growths and anti semitism,
it's always lis out the symptom of a broader societal
(07:21):
malaise or civilizational rock. There is always something more fundamental
that is actually going wrong. You have the youths who
are losing their faith in the country, They're losing their
faith in the institutions, they're losing their faith perhaps ultimately,
and God Almighty himself. They're losing any hope, and naturally
you have to find a scapegoat to blame. And it's
(07:42):
when that scapegoat to blame gets brought in that the
Jews have historically been the chameleon of all scapegoats. For
the capitalists, they were the Jews were the communists. For
the communists, the Jews were the dirty capitalists, the bankers,
the lawyers of the accountants. I mean, We've been something of,
you know, something to be envisioned as the enemy of
whatever ideological cause of the day. And I think that
(08:03):
that's part of what's going on here too. It's those
factors that we were just talking about a few minutes ago.
But it's also there's a lot going wrong in America
right now. You do have declining, declining faith, you have
increasing godlessness, decreasing trust in religious authority, decreasing trust in
institutions in general, much of which I would argue is
probably justified based on the way that many of our
(08:26):
leading institutions have acted over the past fifteen twenty years
with the rise of this toxic, homogeneous ruling class mentality
that wants to subjugate the so called deplorable. So I mean,
there are real, real problems here, and again I think
a lot of this is kind of just taking it
out on the Jews. But I genuinely pray that it
does not get a heck of a lot worse than
it does right now. I do take some solacely, so
(08:48):
you know, you're my fellow Floridian. Of course, things are
pretty good right now in Florida, even from a Jewish
perspective here. I mean I go to school, I go
to Synagad without much fear for my personal safety. I
do carry a firearm and everywhere I go is a
general rule of life. But you know, I go to
shoolaeeda koash restaurants, My wife and I do Jewish things
without much fear. So you know, for now, Flora is
(09:08):
something of a refuge and some safety from the storm.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
At least were with josh Hammer. But first, it's been
over six months since the brutal attack by Hamas and
her brothers and sisters in Israel. Since then, the attacks
in Israel have increased, with Iran and its proxies launching
an attack of hundreds of drones and missiles. The International
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(09:33):
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(09:56):
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support IFCJ dot org. That's one word support, IFCJ dot org.
(10:17):
We saw during COVID just sort of like the lack
of critical thinking and how easy it is to sort
of mobilize the masses against people. What role does social
media have in the sort of this contagion that we're
saying across college and you know, universities.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I think it has a huge role to play. And
TikTok is almost as surely the number one social media
outlet that is partially to blame for this drastic rise
of anti Semitism and anti Israel sentiments. So I don't
have a TikTok account. I've actually it is kind of
a boomer thing to say. I guess I've never even
used TikTok. I literally, I literally would not even know
(10:56):
what you are all to put into my computer if
I want to access it, I guess it's probably just
take talk dot com. But I literally have never been
to the site. But my understanding is that on TikTok,
at least in America, it's probably different in China because ByteDance,
who owns TikTok, the Chinese company, they totally totally use
different algorithms for Western audiences than they do for their
(11:18):
own domestic audiences. But the ratio of pro Palestinian pro
Hamas content to pro Israel content on TikTok, I saw
one estimate that was roughly fifty to one. So it's
just a ton. It's just a ton of propaganda that
is getting algorithmically shoved into searches, and you know, tragically,
TikTok perhaps above all Instagram, I guess will be segment.
(11:40):
It's really TikTok that is where a lot of these
college kids, the high school students, that's where they're getting
their their news.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
These days.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
When you look at the the public polling where people
say where are they getting their news, TikTok for young
millennials and gen Z in particular, oftentimes ranks as the
the number one source of news. And I don't think
that you can possibly underestimate the damage that TikTok is doing.
And it makes sense from a Chinese Communist Party perspective.
(12:07):
I mean, this is really kind of Cold War style
Soviet information operations and information warfare back during the Cold War.
I think back to how the Soviets during the nineteen
sixties when there was a lot of civil unrests during
the Martin Luther King, the civil rights movement, all that
the Soviets were notorious for going into majority black neighborhoods
(12:27):
throughout America and the South, and some of our major
urban areas New York, Chicago and so forth, and putting
in literature trying to stir up violence. This is a
well documented Soviet tactic where they're basically trying to tear
the American people apart and ontimately lead them to violence
against one another, basically just trying to sew discord by
any means necessary. And I think that is a very
(12:49):
similar tactic to what China is doing right now, somewhat indirectly,
but not that indirectly, frankly via TikTok, where they're trying
to sew discord and to make impressionable vulnerable young Americans
and young Westerners ultimately loose.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I'm wondering if as a society we're taking it seriously
enough in the sense of you reference Hitler youth, youth,
I reference red cards used for the Chinese Cultural Revolution,
both led to you know, mass death right, and we're
witnessing right now at campuses across the country of you know,
(13:29):
sort of a revolution happening at these universities where you know,
students are quite literally taking over buildings and calling for
violence and calling for you.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Know, the death of Jews.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So I guess are we at a time when we
have you know, social media and in the easier time
mass mobilizing people. So I mean, you put all that together.
Are we taking this seriously enough? No?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I mean the answer is is clearly no, Lisa, ever
since October seventh started. Let's hold the campuses just aside
for a second. Here the campuses are ground zero of
Lotty insanity. But unfortunately the insanity goes so much broader
than that. I mean, I look at these people marching
over the bridges of London on the Thames River. I
(14:15):
looked at the marches in downtown Chicago, where I used
to live, just a matter of weeks after the Hamas
Holocaust October seventh, you know, at the Sydney Opera House,
all the way down in Sydney, Australia, there were a
lot of radical Muslims gathered on the steps who are
chanting gas the Jews. And I look at a lot
of this and I come to a very simple conclusion,
(14:38):
which is that the West End, America, very much included,
is committing suicide in no small part due to immigration trends.
You know, we have willfully imported this problem to our
shores and part of the problem is home grown, for sure.
That's the education, that's the propaganda, that's the nineteen sixties
(14:59):
cultural radicalism, chickens coming home to roost all that. But
I really genuinely do think a lot of it actually
is is immigration based. You know, I forgot who said it,
but it was someone on social media who said, you know,
back a thousand years ago or so, you know, in
the heart of medieval Europe, you know, Christian families would
(15:20):
sacrifice their lives to prevent radical Muslims from taking over Hungary, Austria, Budapest, Vienna,
cities like that. At this point, you know, through our
own magnanimy and our own misplaced sense of Western guilt
and trying to xpate are not particularly real but only
just imagine sins. We're literally just importing and bringing in
(15:41):
the problem. And I don't think Lisa America has any
plan what so for how to deal with the radically
subversive fifth column that is now operating in our shores
right now. I look at the streets, I look at
the campus as people saying we are Hamas, long live Hamas.
I mean, the next nine to eleven plotters Lisa are
(16:02):
almost assuredly here already. I mean, I'll be shocked if
they're not. I mean, they're literally the Ivy League students
right now. So no, I don't have any trust whatsoever
that our elites have any plan for how to get
us out of this mess, because they're the same people
who tragically got us here in the first place.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Columbia University is on the receiving end of a class
action lawsuit that has now been filed. You know, I
assume other universities are going to face the same fate.
What kind of legal liability is there for these universities
right now?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Well, God willing, there will be a ton of repercussions.
The legal liability will be part of it.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Hopefully we'll have some employers. I've seen a couple of
examples already that will announce you know what, I'm just
not going to hire students from here because I have
no faith that they are going to graduate with a
decent education. And on the contrary, I now have ample
empirical evidence suggesting that they are going to graduate, you know,
surrounded by Vish jew haters, America haters, Christian haters, West
(17:03):
haters in general. So part of it, hopefully will be
employers starting to grow a spy and you've seen some
folks like the bill Ackmans of the world who or
who are starting to talk about that. But hopefully there
are going to be class action lawsuits galore, I mean,
you know these. I'm a lawyer by training, as you know,
I don't really practice a whole lot, but I'm still
barred in Texas. I actually have had some conversations with
some friends, including one friend here in Florida whose name
(17:26):
I will leave out for now because none of this
is public yet. But I've actually already had some conversations,
some some like brainstorming conversations with him about what kind
of lawsuits can be filed. I mean, maybe a Title
six lawsuits. A Title six is basically the part of
the civil rights laws from the nineteen sixties that say
that any institution that receives taxpayer dollars in education, and
(17:46):
most universities take taxpayer dollars unless you're a Hillsdale College,
most taxpayer dollars. In that case, you can't discriminate on
the basis of you know, race, sex, national origin, and religion.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Religion is one of those.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
In fact, one of the big moves of the Trump
administration took in twenty nineteen was to interpret Title six
protections for Jewish students on campus so as to encompass
what's known as the era of the International Holocaust Remembrance
Alliance's definition of anti Semitism, which includes anti Zionism. So
the Trump administration actually interpreted Title six to legally protect
(18:20):
Jewish students against anti Zionist harassment, and the Biden administration
has not necessarily overturned that interpretation, at least they have
not done so publicly. So at least last I checked
that conception of Title six remains the law of the
land today. What that means in concrete terms right now
from a law fair perspective is that there really should
(18:40):
be a lot of Title six suits out there because
a lot of Jewish students, the ones who, as you
said at UCLA, are literally getting barred from setting foot
on campus because they're wearing a Star of David necklace.
These are flagrant, out in the open Title six violations.
I think another possible interesting legal course of action, by
the way, be to try to get to the bottom
(19:01):
of who is funding all of this very clearly coordinated activity.
You're gonna tell me that a campuses all across the country.
They're all going to shopping intent the same tense, the
same tense.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
They're all make it less obvious.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Right, So who is it? I mean, is it? Is
it George Soros?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Is it s JP stunes for Justice in Palestine which
has all sorts of terror and Hamasad Jason connections there.
You know, surely there's got to these some ambitious prosecutors
out there who want to file a material support for
terrorism prosecution. Maybe not in Biden's DJ unfortunately, but maybe
there's a state level equivalent in some red state or something.
(19:37):
So you've got to get creative here. But really, Title six,
when it comes to the sprawling civil rights infringements from
Jewish students, that really should be low hanging fruit for
lawyers across America.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right now, we've got to take a quick commercial break
more with Josh Hammer on the other side. Well, Jewish
Americans fold Joe Biden accountable. You know, we seen him
sort of try to placate the pro Homas crowd. Will
he be held accountable politically?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
God willing?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I say, I mean as an open conservative, I I
I hope. So look, I can say this anecdotally. You know,
Lisa and I are both good friends with Carol Marquis Kay.
Carol and I have similar anecdotal experiences since October seventh,
where we have both personally spoken with a lot of
liberal American Jews who are actually planning on voting for Republicans,
(20:29):
including Donald Trump this fall for the single reason that
they are so disgusted by everything that they're seeing. And
you know, I have people in my family who fit
that description, including some some fairly close people in my family,
So I have some some reason for thinking that the
shift is possibly real. There was one poll out of
New York State that I saw Ryan Gradusky tweeting about.
(20:51):
I trust Ryan a lot when it comes to at
least a polling analysis, and this was maybe like a
month or two ago, and it was it was it
was a small sample sized pole, so I don't want
to put too much weight into it, but that poll
of New York Jews had Trump actually just straight up
beating Biden within the Jewish demographic. Now, I'm not going
to go that far, but I would not be shocked if,
(21:12):
at a bare minimum, the overall Jewish vote this November
is probably could be the highest for a Republican candidate
in the history of modern polling. I think that that
is eminently reasonable. Now, one thing that it's worth pointing
out as well, already over the past few cycles, including
the twenty twenty election, it's religious Jews, Orthodox Jews, traditional
(21:33):
Jews who already overwhelmingly broke break for Republicans. So, for example,
in the twenty twenty election, orthodox Jews voted like eighty
three seventeen for Trump. It's an even higher margin than
like Mormons or Evangelical Christians. It's crazy hot. So we're
really talking here about the less religious, the more secular,
the more you know, the less observant and less traditional Jews.
But again, we're talking here about something that is directly
(21:57):
impacting the literal safety. You can be as secular reform
as you want, living on the Upper West Side him
and hat him, you know, living in San Francisco or
whatnot there, But at some point, I mean, if you
are recognizably Jewish in any way, it seems like these
jihottest thugs are now coming for you. So if that
doesn't wake you up, then I'm not sure what will.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Frankly, well, yeah, and you know, I imagine most normal
sane people who are left in this country are watching
what's happening on campuses and being like, that is not
the future I want for this country, uh, you know,
and hopefully recognizing that that is plaguing the left.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Uh, and that's where it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know, I wanted to switch gears for a minute,
and you know, using that lawyer brain of yours. I mean,
you paid for the education, so let's utilize it. I
wanted to get your take on where do you think
st things stand right now for for Donald Trump?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Uh in New York City.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So you know, it's worth pointing out before we dive
into to the specifics of New York City that increasingly
this really is the only of the four criminal prosecutions
that I think is relevant. So after the oral argument
that we had in Trump's presidential communic case in DC
at the US Supreme Corps this past Thursday, I feel
very confident, you know, I don't want to say very common,
(23:19):
that's probably that's probably a stretch, but I feel pretty
confident that that thing is ultimately going to get kicked
down to a lower court and that that will get appealed.
So that's going to drag out probably at this point
until November. The Fani Willis prosecution in Georgia is almost
surely gonna get pushed until after November. The classified documents
case in Florida is the only one that I think
(23:40):
has any chance of making it to a jury prior
to the November election. But even there, I think it's
a real stretch. You're probably not looking until a start
date until July or August. And one thing that's that's
interesting there is that Trump's actually using the exact same lawyers,
headed by a man by the name of Todd Blanche.
He's using the same lawyers in the New York case
as the Florida case. So, you know, for the very
simple reason that a lawyer cannot be simultaneously in two
(24:02):
places at once. Something's going to have to give there.
From a scheduling perspective as well, I.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Think that's intentional to do that.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Maybe it's an interesting question. I'd never really thought about that.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I thought about that till you mentioned that, and then
I just thought, speaking each other, thank Josh, it's good.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, no, it is good.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
You know, I probably should be as intellstual, honest as
possible at Lisa.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
I'm obviously a conservative.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I'm planning for Donald Trump, planning of voting, excuse me
for Donald Trump this this November. I do think the
Florida case actually is the legally most serious of the
four for Donald Trump. It's not without its its flaws,
including the choice of statute that Jacksmith is using. He's
invoking an absurd World War One era statute, the Espionage Act.
It's ridiculous. But according to the indictment at LISE, it
(24:47):
does look like there was some not particularly kosher activity.
But in any event, let's go back to the New
York case, because that's the one that we're all watching
day in and day out right now. So I think
that Donald Trump is in is in decent shape, and
I think he's in decent shape for at least one reason.
So a lot of people are remarking upon the fact,
and this is correct, that New York City and Manhattan
(25:08):
in particular, where this case is being brought is a
crazy far left jurisdiction. It's an eighty six percent Biden
over Trump voting county. But two things are worth bearing
in minds here. Let's call three things. Actually one is
by definition, all it takes is one all it takes
is one juror, and you have a hung jur you
have a mistrials or we're dealing with twelve. You essentially
(25:29):
only need one two. As has been remarked upon virtually everywhere,
including myself from the moment that this indictment dropped, this
case is just beyond absurd legally speaking, for a million
different reasons. I mean, it involves New York State crimes
going back to the twenty sixteen election, for which there's
a two year statute of limitations. Alvin Bragg is purporting
(25:50):
to get around the statute of limitations problem while simultaneously
upping it from a misdymere to a felony by tacking
on this infurtherance of a federal campaign finance violation law,
which one, by the way, has its own statute of
limitations problem, and two it's a federal law. I mean,
a local prosecutor, it's if he at best, whether he's
even capable, whether he's even well suited to bring forward
(26:13):
a federal charge. So the legal theory of the case
from Alvin Bragg is utterly ludicrous. And the closely related
third reason to that that gives me some hope here
for Donald Trump, Lisa, is that if you look at
the twelve jurors, two of them are lawyers. There is
one corporate lawyer and there's one civil litigator. That's somewhat rare.
(26:34):
Actually to have multiple lawyers on a twelve person jury,
I mean sibody by playing the numbers game, right, it's
somewhat rare. And again it's New York City. So if
that's your only variable, and if that's your only heuristic,
then you're going to guess that they're probably liberal leaning
in their politics. And that may well be the case.
But at a bare minimum, Lisa, if you have gone
to law school and you are working in the legal profession,
(26:56):
you should be asking some very very basic questions the life,
which I just laid out, like these glaring statute of limitations. Problem,
why is this local DA bringing a prosecution that involves
a federal charge? When the US Attorney's office there in
the SD and Y the Southern District of New York,
they looked into bringing this crime, this prosecution and passed
(27:16):
on it because even they thought it was too frivolous.
So these are the very basic kind of questions that
I think someone who is a lawyer serving on the
jury might think, So I'm gonna go ahead and guess
here that at this point, I think it's probably slightly
greater than fifty to fifty that Trump is ultimately off
scott free in the New York case, but he could
(27:38):
be found guilty. I mean, it's definitely a real possibility,
and I guess we'll see what happens if we ultimately
do cross that rub of coon.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
You know, but we've also seen how you know, Trump
derangement syndrome has corrupted the minds of previously normal, insane
human beings. You know, we saw I think more than
half of of the pool of potential jurors that they
had interviewed, so that there's no way that they could
(28:05):
be impartial in this. I mean, how much of a
concern is that for Donald Trump in this scenario, especially
in New York City.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Look, it's a it's a real concern, and you know,
to kind of backtrack on what I just said, I
am hardened by the fact that there are multiple lawyers
on the jury, just given the fact that this particular case,
this theory of the case is such a ridiculous legal stretch.
On the other hand, I think there was only one
juror of the twelve who said that he or she
(28:38):
was a regular or semi regular reader of the New
York Post.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
And you know the New York.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Post is is that's the right leaning newspaper in New York.
I mean, I love the New York Post. I published
many columns there over the years. But you know, if
you're if you're Donald Trump, you would definitely like there
to be more than one New York Post reader on
the jury.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
And oh, there wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
A true social person.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I think there was, right, I think there was someone
who got their news from true.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Social Yes, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Just a newsperson as well. So I feel like there's
you know, and then you mentioned attorney. So I think
there's collectively seemingly some hope for him on the jury.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
There is.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, No, I absolutely think that there is some hope
for him on the jury. I actually feel a little
better now, honestly. So you would if you would asked
me a few weeks ago, before jury selection in New
York City started, whether Donald Trump was going to be
a dead man walking there in New York City, I
probably would have given you a greater than fifty percent
(29:39):
chance that he would be found guilty, and at this
point that I think, at this point, you know, I
would probably switch that and say that I think it's
slightly more likely than not that he will not be
found guilty, but it does remain a real possibility, you know,
including you know, factoring in as well, of course, the
fact that the judge, Juan Mursham absolutely despises Donald Trump.
(29:59):
I mean, he's had down these gag order fines now
left and right, he's threatening incarceration. He barely even allowed
Donald Trump to go attend his son Baron's high school graduation.
You know, in a case like this, the judge's conduct
can absolutely matter because of a normal jurors probably going
to be persuaded by the judges perception of the case.
(30:20):
I mean, I clerked for a federal judge myself six
years ago. I mean judges where the black robes. These
are esteemed people, and you know, normal people in a
jury are probably going to look to the judge with
some degree of deference. There So, when you have a
judge who's presiding over a criminal trial like this, who
has just such dripping disdain and animus for the criminal defendant,
someone whose literal daughter Laura Mershawn, famously, as we now know,
(30:42):
works in democratic fundraising. Something like that definitely could make
a difference at the margin as well.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But again, is that ever to work in the other
direction though, in the sense of maybe the jury from
a perception standpoint, you know, maybe they feel like the
judges biased himself.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Well, if you were dealing with, you know, a jury
pool in the middle of American heartland, maybe right. But
in New York City, you know, dealing here with people
who are oftentimes not always, but a lot they're gonna
be working, and you know, high paying white collar professions
that the truth social and New York Post readers, notwithstanding
(31:19):
a lot of them are getting their news from the
New York Times, the Washington Post. This is again Manhattan
eighty six percent buying over Trump County. So all of
that does not provide me with a lot of hope
when it comes to jurors viewing the judge's conduct skeptically.
But I hope I'm wrongly. So I think it's a
ridiculous case. It's an absurd, absurd case in.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
New York City.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
The one in Florida is borderline justified to bring a
charge again Jack Smith brought the wrong charge, but the
facts maybe could have supported a different statute there. But
this case in New York City is an epic, epic,
epic joke. The federal prosecutor's office, the SDNY dismissed it.
Alvin Bragg's own presessor there in the New York County
New York DA's office side Vance Junior, he looked into this.
(32:05):
He also neglected to bring charges. So if there is
any justice, then Trump's going to get off Scott Freed here,
That's for sure, Josh.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Anything else you'd like to leave us with before we go, now.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
A these It's been a great conversation.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I guess the only point that I would underscore is
I think it's one of the most important points is
what we discussed towards the beginning of our conversation when
it comes to the campus insanity and just the general
kind of pro Islamism, pro Hamas, pro plo insanity that's
sweeping the Western world in general. Here, which is it
really genuinely is ultimately not about the Jews, It's really
(32:38):
ultimately not about Israel. I think this is such an
important point to bear in minds here they increasingly these days,
these protesters, they're saying the quiet part out loud. They
are increasingly chanting for the death of America as well.
They are increasingly supporting those like Hasbalah and the Iranian
regime which have a ton of American blood on their hands.
And the enemy is here again. The fifth column operating
(33:02):
right now on our shores is something that terrifies me
day in and day out, frankly, and I don't think
that we have any plan whatsoever to deal with it.
But again, I do take some solace Lisa, that you, myself,
and many of the folks that we get to call
friends do live here in Fortress, Florida, which for now
is a bashion of sandy, and I take some solace
(33:22):
in them.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
No, we're very lucky to live in Florida. Josh, you
are a smart man and a great friend. I appreciate
you taking the time to come on the show.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
You bet, Lisa, thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
That was Josh Hammer. I appreciate him making the time.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week. Or do you
think John Cassio and my producer for putting the show
together until next time.
We've been discussing the Marxist revolution that has been underway
in this country for a long time, particularly on college campuses.
We're seeing those efforts from the left bear fruit now
as a hostile takeover is happening at universities across the country,
(00:20):
where we see Prohamas students, Marxist students occupy a hall
at Columbia University, videos of these students clashing with police
officers at VCU, or blocking Jewish students from attending class
at UCLA, students physically assaulted. So where is this going?
(00:43):
When does this end? How does it end? I'm going
to have my friend Josh Hammer on this show. He's
been on before. He wears a lot of different hats.
He's a senior editor at large at Newsweek, He's the
host of The Josh Hammer Show and America on Trial
with Josh Hammer on the First TV.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
He's a lawyer, so we're going to get his take.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
On all of what I just talked about about what's
happening at universities across the country. What legal liability do
some of these universities have. We're also going to talk
about the Donald Trump's trial in New York City. What
should you know about that? What's the latest? Where is
that headache? So all of that and more with my
friend Josh Hammer. Stay tuned. Well, Josh, it's good to
(01:29):
have you on, my friend. It's been a while, not
since we talked, but since I've had you on the show.
So glad to have you back list.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
It's always a pleasure my friend. And you know, we
talk a lot offline, but it was great to do
so on the air with you as well.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah. Absolutely, you know, Josh, I mean we've all been
communicating with horror about you know what we're saying on
colleges and university campuses, you know, across the country. I
mean Columbia University, they occupy it a hall on campus.
We've seen videos of police clashing with students at vias.
You Jewish students blocked from attending classes at UCLA, students assaulted,
(02:06):
I think one, you know, according to the video, we
even got taste.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
When does this end?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You know?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Lisa, The way that I opened my most recent episode
of my show, The Josh Hammer Show, was I literally
opened with a monologue basically saying, is this Nazi Germany?
I mean the stuff that we are seeing right now
on American university campuses is so far past the line
(02:32):
of a Zionism versus anti Zionism debate, a debate over
whether we should create a new Palestinian state, or whether
Israel should incorporate all of the West Bank or whatnot.
I mean, we are so far beyond that when you
have people literally waving the flags of US recognized foreign
terrorist organizations Hamas and Hesbala, forming human chains to not
(02:56):
allow someone to set foot on campus because he's wearing
a key pah a yamaka, or is wearing a Maga David,
a Jewish Star of David necklace. I mean, the stuff
that we're seeing, Lisa, it's unfathomable. I mean, I look around,
I pinch myself, like, is this happening in America? Is
this the United States of America? And it is, and
(03:18):
it is the result of such a tragic confluence of factors,
and I guess if I had to pinpoint some of
those factors. On the one hand, this is obviously the
chickens coming home to roost of the cultural Marxist revolution
that swept through the university campus is really beginning in
earnest with the rise of the Frankfurt school. In the
nineteen sixties. Chris Ruffo had a whole book documenting this
(03:38):
rise through the institutions that came out last summer. He
Chris did a great job of that book. So you're
seeing some of those chickens come home to roost. The
folks who are students back then are now the leaders
of departments and universities all across the country. And then
you have this horrific immigration trends, the broad importation of
foreigners who simply do not share anything remotely resembling our values,
(04:00):
and then their promotion through the system via racist gimmick
such as affirmative action programs and emissions. I mean, it's
just this whole toxic brew lease up. But ultimately, and
this is the this is the key point for your audience.
I think you know this, but you know this is
important for It is important for your audience to know
it's ultimately not about the juice. It's ultimately not about Israel.
If you look at what's happening at Harvard Campus and
(04:22):
Harvard Yard, apparently the American flag typically flies over a
statue of John John Winthrop I believe is the founding
father figure there, and they took down the American flag
on Harvard's campus, and they put up the plo flat
the Palestinian flat. And there was a pamphlet on a
similar note that pamphleteers pro Palestinian pamphleteers, you know, these
(04:46):
little mini Jihattist miscreants. They distributed this pamphlet in ann Arbor, Michigan,
where by the way, I was shoudowed down by a
pro Hamas mob back in November when I was trying
to give a speech.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
But hold that aside.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
On that same campus and ann Arbor last week they
were distributing a pamphlet that said, quote freedom for Palestine
means death for America. That's what they actually believe. Israel
is just the canarian the coal mine, just just as
the Jews have always been the canary in the coal mine.
I actually was reading the Hamas Charter. It's not exactly
fun reading, it's fairly grim reading. But I was rereading
(05:18):
it a few weeks ago as part of the book
that I'm that I'm now working on in writing, and
I was struck that they don't just call for the
death of all Jews. They obviously do do that. Hamas
also causes calls explicitly for the death of Christians and
those who else they describe as infidels. So that's ultimately
what's going on here, Lisa, and that's a very important
point to make it well.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And that's what I've been, you know, kind of trying
to wrap my head around, you know, is this just
anti Semitism, which is awful and evil? So I didn't
mean it, you know, it was just but or is it,
you know, Marxism or is it all of it? And
I mean you can go back and even look at
like the Red Guards and how they you know, this
mass student led paramilitary social movement mobilized by Mao, or
(05:59):
you look at back at you know colleges, you know
where they blocked Jews, you know, before the Holocaust, and
so it's like, you know, I mean, I don't know,
like is that where Where is this headache?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I guess?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I mean nowhere good? I mean, the the short answer
is nowhere good. So if you look historically on anti Semitism,
which has existed for essentially as long as humans have existed,
I mean, the Babylonians ransacked Solomon's Temple in the sixth
century BCE, the Romans conquered Judaea with the destruction of
the Second Temple in the or seventy nine. I mean
anti Semitism, hatred Jews goes back essentially to the Jews
(06:36):
forming in the first place, but especially over the past
call it millennium, over the past roughly thousand years or so,
when you look at societies that have seen explosive rises
in anti Semitism, and to be clear, you know, I
think a lot of what we're seeing a campus is
reminiscent of nineteen thirties era Hitler youth. When it comes
to the rhetoric, I am not actually analogizing the United
(06:59):
States to Nazi Germany. I want to be very clear
about that. I'm just saying the rhetoric on campus sometimes
is genuinely by the far extremists, does seem to be
reaching that tone there. But in any event, when you
kind of take a broader view of the let's call
it the past five hundred to one thousand years, and
look at societies that have had explosive growths and anti semitism,
it's always lis out the symptom of a broader societal
(07:21):
malaise or civilizational rock. There is always something more fundamental
that is actually going wrong. You have the youths who
are losing their faith in the country, They're losing their
faith in the institutions, they're losing their faith perhaps ultimately,
and God Almighty himself. They're losing any hope, and naturally
you have to find a scapegoat to blame. And it's
(07:42):
when that scapegoat to blame gets brought in that the
Jews have historically been the chameleon of all scapegoats. For
the capitalists, they were the Jews were the communists. For
the communists, the Jews were the dirty capitalists, the bankers,
the lawyers of the accountants. I mean, We've been something of,
you know, something to be envisioned as the enemy of
whatever ideological cause of the day. And I think that
(08:03):
that's part of what's going on here too. It's those
factors that we were just talking about a few minutes ago.
But it's also there's a lot going wrong in America
right now. You do have declining, declining faith, you have
increasing godlessness, decreasing trust in religious authority, decreasing trust in
institutions in general, much of which I would argue is
probably justified based on the way that many of our
(08:26):
leading institutions have acted over the past fifteen twenty years
with the rise of this toxic, homogeneous ruling class mentality
that wants to subjugate the so called deplorable. So I mean,
there are real, real problems here, and again I think
a lot of this is kind of just taking it
out on the Jews. But I genuinely pray that it
does not get a heck of a lot worse than
it does right now. I do take some solacely, so
(08:48):
you know, you're my fellow Floridian. Of course, things are
pretty good right now in Florida, even from a Jewish
perspective here. I mean I go to school, I go
to Synagad without much fear for my personal safety. I
do carry a firearm and everywhere I go is a
general rule of life. But you know, I go to
shoolaeeda koash restaurants, My wife and I do Jewish things
without much fear. So you know, for now, Flora is
(09:08):
something of a refuge and some safety from the storm.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
At least were with josh Hammer. But first, it's been
over six months since the brutal attack by Hamas and
her brothers and sisters in Israel. Since then, the attacks
in Israel have increased, with Iran and its proxies launching
an attack of hundreds of drones and missiles. The International
Fellowship of Christians and Jews is on the ground now
addressing all urgent needs, and that's why I'm partnering with
(09:33):
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(09:56):
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support IFCJ dot org. That's one word support, IFCJ dot org.
(10:17):
We saw during COVID just sort of like the lack
of critical thinking and how easy it is to sort
of mobilize the masses against people. What role does social
media have in the sort of this contagion that we're
saying across college and you know, universities.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I think it has a huge role to play. And
TikTok is almost as surely the number one social media
outlet that is partially to blame for this drastic rise
of anti Semitism and anti Israel sentiments. So I don't
have a TikTok account. I've actually it is kind of
a boomer thing to say. I guess I've never even
used TikTok. I literally, I literally would not even know
(10:56):
what you are all to put into my computer if
I want to access it, I guess it's probably just
take talk dot com. But I literally have never been
to the site. But my understanding is that on TikTok,
at least in America, it's probably different in China because ByteDance,
who owns TikTok, the Chinese company, they totally totally use
different algorithms for Western audiences than they do for their
(11:18):
own domestic audiences. But the ratio of pro Palestinian pro
Hamas content to pro Israel content on TikTok, I saw
one estimate that was roughly fifty to one. So it's
just a ton. It's just a ton of propaganda that
is getting algorithmically shoved into searches, and you know, tragically,
TikTok perhaps above all Instagram, I guess will be segment.
(11:40):
It's really TikTok that is where a lot of these
college kids, the high school students, that's where they're getting
their their news.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
These days.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
When you look at the the public polling where people
say where are they getting their news, TikTok for young
millennials and gen Z in particular, oftentimes ranks as the
the number one source of news. And I don't think
that you can possibly underestimate the damage that TikTok is doing.
And it makes sense from a Chinese Communist Party perspective.
(12:07):
I mean, this is really kind of Cold War style
Soviet information operations and information warfare back during the Cold War.
I think back to how the Soviets during the nineteen
sixties when there was a lot of civil unrests during
the Martin Luther King, the civil rights movement, all that
the Soviets were notorious for going into majority black neighborhoods
(12:27):
throughout America and the South, and some of our major
urban areas New York, Chicago and so forth, and putting
in literature trying to stir up violence. This is a
well documented Soviet tactic where they're basically trying to tear
the American people apart and ontimately lead them to violence
against one another, basically just trying to sew discord by
any means necessary. And I think that is a very
(12:49):
similar tactic to what China is doing right now, somewhat indirectly,
but not that indirectly, frankly via TikTok, where they're trying
to sew discord and to make impressionable vulnerable young Americans
and young Westerners ultimately loose.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I'm wondering if as a society we're taking it seriously
enough in the sense of you reference Hitler youth, youth,
I reference red cards used for the Chinese Cultural Revolution,
both led to you know, mass death right, and we're
witnessing right now at campuses across the country of you know,
(13:29):
sort of a revolution happening at these universities where you know,
students are quite literally taking over buildings and calling for
violence and calling for you.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Know, the death of Jews.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So I guess are we at a time when we
have you know, social media and in the easier time
mass mobilizing people. So I mean, you put all that together.
Are we taking this seriously enough? No?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I mean the answer is is clearly no, Lisa, ever
since October seventh started. Let's hold the campuses just aside
for a second. Here the campuses are ground zero of
Lotty insanity. But unfortunately the insanity goes so much broader
than that. I mean, I look at these people marching
over the bridges of London on the Thames River. I
(14:15):
looked at the marches in downtown Chicago, where I used
to live, just a matter of weeks after the Hamas
Holocaust October seventh, you know, at the Sydney Opera House,
all the way down in Sydney, Australia, there were a
lot of radical Muslims gathered on the steps who are
chanting gas the Jews. And I look at a lot
of this and I come to a very simple conclusion,
(14:38):
which is that the West End, America, very much included,
is committing suicide in no small part due to immigration trends.
You know, we have willfully imported this problem to our
shores and part of the problem is home grown, for sure.
That's the education, that's the propaganda, that's the nineteen sixties
(14:59):
cultural radicalism, chickens coming home to roost all that. But
I really genuinely do think a lot of it actually
is is immigration based. You know, I forgot who said it,
but it was someone on social media who said, you know,
back a thousand years ago or so, you know, in
the heart of medieval Europe, you know, Christian families would
(15:20):
sacrifice their lives to prevent radical Muslims from taking over Hungary, Austria, Budapest, Vienna,
cities like that. At this point, you know, through our
own magnanimy and our own misplaced sense of Western guilt
and trying to xpate are not particularly real but only
just imagine sins. We're literally just importing and bringing in
(15:41):
the problem. And I don't think Lisa America has any
plan what so for how to deal with the radically
subversive fifth column that is now operating in our shores
right now. I look at the streets, I look at
the campus as people saying we are Hamas, long live Hamas.
I mean, the next nine to eleven plotters Lisa are
(16:02):
almost assuredly here already. I mean, I'll be shocked if
they're not. I mean, they're literally the Ivy League students
right now. So no, I don't have any trust whatsoever
that our elites have any plan for how to get
us out of this mess, because they're the same people
who tragically got us here in the first place.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Columbia University is on the receiving end of a class
action lawsuit that has now been filed. You know, I
assume other universities are going to face the same fate.
What kind of legal liability is there for these universities
right now?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Well, God willing, there will be a ton of repercussions.
The legal liability will be part of it.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Hopefully we'll have some employers. I've seen a couple of
examples already that will announce you know what, I'm just
not going to hire students from here because I have
no faith that they are going to graduate with a
decent education. And on the contrary, I now have ample
empirical evidence suggesting that they are going to graduate, you know,
surrounded by Vish jew haters, America haters, Christian haters, West
(17:03):
haters in general. So part of it, hopefully will be
employers starting to grow a spy and you've seen some
folks like the bill Ackmans of the world who or
who are starting to talk about that. But hopefully there
are going to be class action lawsuits galore, I mean,
you know these. I'm a lawyer by training, as you know,
I don't really practice a whole lot, but I'm still
barred in Texas. I actually have had some conversations with
some friends, including one friend here in Florida whose name
(17:26):
I will leave out for now because none of this
is public yet. But I've actually already had some conversations,
some some like brainstorming conversations with him about what kind
of lawsuits can be filed. I mean, maybe a Title
six lawsuits. A Title six is basically the part of
the civil rights laws from the nineteen sixties that say
that any institution that receives taxpayer dollars in education, and
(17:46):
most universities take taxpayer dollars unless you're a Hillsdale College,
most taxpayer dollars. In that case, you can't discriminate on
the basis of you know, race, sex, national origin, and religion.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Religion is one of those.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
In fact, one of the big moves of the Trump
administration took in twenty nineteen was to interpret Title six
protections for Jewish students on campus so as to encompass
what's known as the era of the International Holocaust Remembrance
Alliance's definition of anti Semitism, which includes anti Zionism. So
the Trump administration actually interpreted Title six to legally protect
(18:20):
Jewish students against anti Zionist harassment, and the Biden administration
has not necessarily overturned that interpretation, at least they have
not done so publicly. So at least last I checked
that conception of Title six remains the law of the
land today. What that means in concrete terms right now
from a law fair perspective is that there really should
(18:40):
be a lot of Title six suits out there because
a lot of Jewish students, the ones who, as you
said at UCLA, are literally getting barred from setting foot
on campus because they're wearing a Star of David necklace.
These are flagrant, out in the open Title six violations.
I think another possible interesting legal course of action, by
the way, be to try to get to the bottom
(19:01):
of who is funding all of this very clearly coordinated activity.
You're gonna tell me that a campuses all across the country.
They're all going to shopping intent the same tense, the
same tense.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
They're all make it less obvious.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Right, So who is it? I mean, is it? Is
it George Soros?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Is it s JP stunes for Justice in Palestine which
has all sorts of terror and Hamasad Jason connections there.
You know, surely there's got to these some ambitious prosecutors
out there who want to file a material support for
terrorism prosecution. Maybe not in Biden's DJ unfortunately, but maybe
there's a state level equivalent in some red state or something.
(19:37):
So you've got to get creative here. But really, Title six,
when it comes to the sprawling civil rights infringements from
Jewish students, that really should be low hanging fruit for
lawyers across America.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right now, we've got to take a quick commercial break
more with Josh Hammer on the other side. Well, Jewish
Americans fold Joe Biden accountable. You know, we seen him
sort of try to placate the pro Homas crowd. Will
he be held accountable politically?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
God willing?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I say, I mean as an open conservative, I I
I hope. So look, I can say this anecdotally. You know,
Lisa and I are both good friends with Carol Marquis Kay.
Carol and I have similar anecdotal experiences since October seventh,
where we have both personally spoken with a lot of
liberal American Jews who are actually planning on voting for Republicans,
(20:29):
including Donald Trump this fall for the single reason that
they are so disgusted by everything that they're seeing. And
you know, I have people in my family who fit
that description, including some some fairly close people in my family,
So I have some some reason for thinking that the
shift is possibly real. There was one poll out of
New York State that I saw Ryan Gradusky tweeting about.
(20:51):
I trust Ryan a lot when it comes to at
least a polling analysis, and this was maybe like a
month or two ago, and it was it was it
was a small sample sized pole, so I don't want
to put too much weight into it, but that poll
of New York Jews had Trump actually just straight up
beating Biden within the Jewish demographic. Now, I'm not going
to go that far, but I would not be shocked if,
(21:12):
at a bare minimum, the overall Jewish vote this November
is probably could be the highest for a Republican candidate
in the history of modern polling. I think that that
is eminently reasonable. Now, one thing that it's worth pointing
out as well, already over the past few cycles, including
the twenty twenty election, it's religious Jews, Orthodox Jews, traditional
(21:33):
Jews who already overwhelmingly broke break for Republicans. So, for example,
in the twenty twenty election, orthodox Jews voted like eighty
three seventeen for Trump. It's an even higher margin than
like Mormons or Evangelical Christians. It's crazy hot. So we're
really talking here about the less religious, the more secular,
the more you know, the less observant and less traditional Jews.
But again, we're talking here about something that is directly
(21:57):
impacting the literal safety. You can be as secular reform
as you want, living on the Upper West Side him
and hat him, you know, living in San Francisco or
whatnot there, But at some point, I mean, if you
are recognizably Jewish in any way, it seems like these
jihottest thugs are now coming for you. So if that
doesn't wake you up, then I'm not sure what will.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Frankly, well, yeah, and you know, I imagine most normal
sane people who are left in this country are watching
what's happening on campuses and being like, that is not
the future I want for this country, uh, you know,
and hopefully recognizing that that is plaguing the left.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Uh, and that's where it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know, I wanted to switch gears for a minute,
and you know, using that lawyer brain of yours. I mean,
you paid for the education, so let's utilize it. I
wanted to get your take on where do you think
st things stand right now for for Donald Trump?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Uh in New York City.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So you know, it's worth pointing out before we dive
into to the specifics of New York City that increasingly
this really is the only of the four criminal prosecutions
that I think is relevant. So after the oral argument
that we had in Trump's presidential communic case in DC
at the US Supreme Corps this past Thursday, I feel
very confident, you know, I don't want to say very common,
(23:19):
that's probably that's probably a stretch, but I feel pretty
confident that that thing is ultimately going to get kicked
down to a lower court and that that will get appealed.
So that's going to drag out probably at this point
until November. The Fani Willis prosecution in Georgia is almost
surely gonna get pushed until after November. The classified documents
case in Florida is the only one that I think
(23:40):
has any chance of making it to a jury prior
to the November election. But even there, I think it's
a real stretch. You're probably not looking until a start
date until July or August. And one thing that's that's
interesting there is that Trump's actually using the exact same lawyers,
headed by a man by the name of Todd Blanche.
He's using the same lawyers in the New York case
as the Florida case. So, you know, for the very
simple reason that a lawyer cannot be simultaneously in two
(24:02):
places at once. Something's going to have to give there.
From a scheduling perspective as well, I.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Think that's intentional to do that.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Maybe it's an interesting question. I'd never really thought about that.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I thought about that till you mentioned that, and then
I just thought, speaking each other, thank Josh, it's good.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, no, it is good.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
You know, I probably should be as intellstual, honest as
possible at Lisa.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
I'm obviously a conservative.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I'm planning for Donald Trump, planning of voting, excuse me
for Donald Trump this this November. I do think the
Florida case actually is the legally most serious of the
four for Donald Trump. It's not without its its flaws,
including the choice of statute that Jacksmith is using. He's
invoking an absurd World War One era statute, the Espionage Act.
It's ridiculous. But according to the indictment at LISE, it
(24:47):
does look like there was some not particularly kosher activity.
But in any event, let's go back to the New
York case, because that's the one that we're all watching
day in and day out right now. So I think
that Donald Trump is in is in decent shape, and
I think he's in decent shape for at least one reason.
So a lot of people are remarking upon the fact,
and this is correct, that New York City and Manhattan
(25:08):
in particular, where this case is being brought is a
crazy far left jurisdiction. It's an eighty six percent Biden
over Trump voting county. But two things are worth bearing
in minds here. Let's call three things. Actually one is
by definition, all it takes is one all it takes
is one juror, and you have a hung jur you
have a mistrials or we're dealing with twelve. You essentially
(25:29):
only need one two. As has been remarked upon virtually everywhere,
including myself from the moment that this indictment dropped, this
case is just beyond absurd legally speaking, for a million
different reasons. I mean, it involves New York State crimes
going back to the twenty sixteen election, for which there's
a two year statute of limitations. Alvin Bragg is purporting
(25:50):
to get around the statute of limitations problem while simultaneously
upping it from a misdymere to a felony by tacking
on this infurtherance of a federal campaign finance violation law,
which one, by the way, has its own statute of
limitations problem, and two it's a federal law. I mean,
a local prosecutor, it's if he at best, whether he's
even capable, whether he's even well suited to bring forward
(26:13):
a federal charge. So the legal theory of the case
from Alvin Bragg is utterly ludicrous. And the closely related
third reason to that that gives me some hope here
for Donald Trump, Lisa, is that if you look at
the twelve jurors, two of them are lawyers. There is
one corporate lawyer and there's one civil litigator. That's somewhat rare.
(26:34):
Actually to have multiple lawyers on a twelve person jury,
I mean sibody by playing the numbers game, right, it's
somewhat rare. And again it's New York City. So if
that's your only variable, and if that's your only heuristic,
then you're going to guess that they're probably liberal leaning
in their politics. And that may well be the case.
But at a bare minimum, Lisa, if you have gone
to law school and you are working in the legal profession,
(26:56):
you should be asking some very very basic questions the life,
which I just laid out, like these glaring statute of limitations. Problem,
why is this local DA bringing a prosecution that involves
a federal charge? When the US Attorney's office there in
the SD and Y the Southern District of New York,
they looked into bringing this crime, this prosecution and passed
(27:16):
on it because even they thought it was too frivolous.
So these are the very basic kind of questions that
I think someone who is a lawyer serving on the
jury might think, So I'm gonna go ahead and guess
here that at this point, I think it's probably slightly
greater than fifty to fifty that Trump is ultimately off
scott free in the New York case, but he could
(27:38):
be found guilty. I mean, it's definitely a real possibility,
and I guess we'll see what happens if we ultimately
do cross that rub of coon.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
You know, but we've also seen how you know, Trump
derangement syndrome has corrupted the minds of previously normal, insane
human beings. You know, we saw I think more than
half of of the pool of potential jurors that they
had interviewed, so that there's no way that they could
(28:05):
be impartial in this. I mean, how much of a
concern is that for Donald Trump in this scenario, especially
in New York City.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Look, it's a it's a real concern, and you know,
to kind of backtrack on what I just said, I
am hardened by the fact that there are multiple lawyers
on the jury, just given the fact that this particular case,
this theory of the case is such a ridiculous legal stretch.
On the other hand, I think there was only one
juror of the twelve who said that he or she
(28:38):
was a regular or semi regular reader of the New
York Post.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
And you know the New York.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Post is is that's the right leaning newspaper in New York.
I mean, I love the New York Post. I published
many columns there over the years. But you know, if
you're if you're Donald Trump, you would definitely like there
to be more than one New York Post reader on
the jury.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
And oh, there wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
A true social person.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I think there was, right, I think there was someone
who got their news from true.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Social Yes, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Just a newsperson as well. So I feel like there's
you know, and then you mentioned attorney. So I think
there's collectively seemingly some hope for him on the jury.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
There is.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, No, I absolutely think that there is some hope
for him on the jury. I actually feel a little
better now, honestly. So you would if you would asked
me a few weeks ago, before jury selection in New
York City started, whether Donald Trump was going to be
a dead man walking there in New York City, I
probably would have given you a greater than fifty percent
(29:39):
chance that he would be found guilty, and at this
point that I think, at this point, you know, I
would probably switch that and say that I think it's
slightly more likely than not that he will not be
found guilty, but it does remain a real possibility, you know,
including you know, factoring in as well, of course, the
fact that the judge, Juan Mursham absolutely despises Donald Trump.
(29:59):
I mean, he's had down these gag order fines now
left and right, he's threatening incarceration. He barely even allowed
Donald Trump to go attend his son Baron's high school graduation.
You know, in a case like this, the judge's conduct
can absolutely matter because of a normal jurors probably going
to be persuaded by the judges perception of the case.
(30:20):
I mean, I clerked for a federal judge myself six
years ago. I mean judges where the black robes. These
are esteemed people, and you know, normal people in a
jury are probably going to look to the judge with
some degree of deference. There So, when you have a
judge who's presiding over a criminal trial like this, who
has just such dripping disdain and animus for the criminal defendant,
someone whose literal daughter Laura Mershawn, famously, as we now know,
(30:42):
works in democratic fundraising. Something like that definitely could make
a difference at the margin as well.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But again, is that ever to work in the other
direction though, in the sense of maybe the jury from
a perception standpoint, you know, maybe they feel like the
judges biased himself.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Well, if you were dealing with, you know, a jury
pool in the middle of American heartland, maybe right. But
in New York City, you know, dealing here with people
who are oftentimes not always, but a lot they're gonna
be working, and you know, high paying white collar professions
that the truth social and New York Post readers, notwithstanding
(31:19):
a lot of them are getting their news from the
New York Times, the Washington Post. This is again Manhattan
eighty six percent buying over Trump County. So all of
that does not provide me with a lot of hope
when it comes to jurors viewing the judge's conduct skeptically.
But I hope I'm wrongly. So I think it's a
ridiculous case. It's an absurd, absurd case in.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
New York City.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
The one in Florida is borderline justified to bring a
charge again Jack Smith brought the wrong charge, but the
facts maybe could have supported a different statute there. But
this case in New York City is an epic, epic,
epic joke. The federal prosecutor's office, the SDNY dismissed it.
Alvin Bragg's own presessor there in the New York County
New York DA's office side Vance Junior, he looked into this.
(32:05):
He also neglected to bring charges. So if there is
any justice, then Trump's going to get off Scott Freed here,
That's for sure, Josh.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Anything else you'd like to leave us with before we go, now.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
A these It's been a great conversation.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I guess the only point that I would underscore is
I think it's one of the most important points is
what we discussed towards the beginning of our conversation when
it comes to the campus insanity and just the general
kind of pro Islamism, pro Hamas, pro plo insanity that's
sweeping the Western world in general. Here, which is it
really genuinely is ultimately not about the Jews, It's really
(32:38):
ultimately not about Israel. I think this is such an
important point to bear in minds here they increasingly these days,
these protesters, they're saying the quiet part out loud. They
are increasingly chanting for the death of America as well.
They are increasingly supporting those like Hasbalah and the Iranian
regime which have a ton of American blood on their hands.
And the enemy is here again. The fifth column operating
(33:02):
right now on our shores is something that terrifies me
day in and day out, frankly, and I don't think
that we have any plan whatsoever to deal with it.
But again, I do take some solace Lisa, that you, myself,
and many of the folks that we get to call
friends do live here in Fortress, Florida, which for now
is a bashion of sandy, and I take some solace
(33:22):
in them.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
No, we're very lucky to live in Florida. Josh, you
are a smart man and a great friend. I appreciate
you taking the time to come on the show.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
You bet, Lisa, thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
That was Josh Hammer. I appreciate him making the time.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week. Or do you
think John Cassio and my producer for putting the show
together until next time.
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