Feeling burnt out? We're here to assure you that you're not alone. In this riveting discussion, our brilliant guest, Mwanawa, joins us to tackle a problem that we've noticed creeping into the lives of cyber security professionals across the spectrum - burnout. From seasoned veterans to eager beginners, everyone seems to be feeling the pressure of pushing their limits. But it's time we understood that slowing down doesn't mean stopping and it's okay to catch your breath.
We unravel the complexities of burnout, particularly in the remote work setting. Here's a thought - what if taking a break didn't make you feel guilty? Trust us, it's possible and we're here to guide you. We'll share some interesting strategies like taking PTO, disconnecting notifications, or even indulging in gardening or camping. All of these can help you escape the 'always on' mindset. Drawing from Mwanawa's personal experiences, we dive into the importance of recognizing when to step away from your work.
Finally, we circle back to how crucial perseverance is - it's about pushing beyond comfort zones but within healthy boundaries. We walk you through our own stories of dealing with burnout, the challenges of maintaining relationships, and even some light-hearted weekend safety brief anecdotes. In the spirit of Memorial Day Weekend, we emphasize the importance of checking in with our veteran brothers and sisters and remind everyone of the need to prioritize mental health. So sit back, tune in, and remember, it's not a crime to ask for help or take a break when you need one.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome everybody.
It is me, it is the cyberwarrior, this is cyber warrior
studios, and I know you are allhere for another amazing episode
of security happy hour And, asalways, we always aim to deliver
.
We, you know it's the fun, theconversation, the beer, we're
all here for it.
So if you, i promise, if youjust hang around for like 10
(00:21):
seconds, we'll be right back Andwe're back again And actually
with that we got there.
It is the official startsecurity happy hour And we're
(00:43):
here with it And I have with memy guests.
At this time, when I wasHarvard, the one and only got it
right.
Please make sure you share thisstream.
Let people know we're here,we're live and we are in at the
win.
(01:03):
Today We were talking a veryimportant topic, that topic
being burnout and perseverance,and I know this is of the utmost
importance to quite a fewpeople right now.
But, seeing as how, when I wasthe one to propose the topic,
please let us know what is itsimportance to you and what are
you dealing with.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Okay, and it might sound, when I thought about this
, like the might sound a littleodd that, as new as I am to this
, I'm talking about burnoutalready, not necessarily that I
burnt out yet, And I say yetbecause I'm, you know, running
into a lot of people.
Everybody I know from you knowpeople who've done this for
(01:44):
decades to people who juststarted a couple months ago are
starting to feel like they'restarting to feel like one arm
paper hangers, they're doing toomuch and they're starting to
feel like they're having to pushthemselves past a point that is
really healthy.
No, no, a few people who are.
I mean, they had their handsfull because that's what they do
(02:06):
, That's their job.
So it's just.
This is one of those fieldsthat, more than any other one
that I've been in and more thanmost of them that I know about,
seems to it lends itself to youknow the possibility of, as I
say, wearing yourself down tothe nub very quickly And just
you know.
(02:26):
I thought it was important totalk about and figure out ways
to avoid that you know, to beable to do your job and to be
able to do everythingeffectively without you know
burning yourself out.
You know, completely,completely, just burn your fuse
down and just gone.
You know, in the perseverancepart that's, the flip side of
that coin is, yeah, you do haveto keep pushing at it, you do
(02:49):
have to keep going, you do haveto have that, never die, never
give up spirit.
But you also have to know whento, when to break, when to take
a break, when to calm down, toslow down a little bit, not quit
, but say you know what?
I'm already at 9.8.
And this is going to, this istaking me, this is going to take
me off the meter and let meslow down a little bit here.
(03:09):
So I probably have morequestions and answers on that.
Like I said, I'm kind of kind ofnew to this, but I just, you
know, kind of want to hear fromyour perspective what you do,
what you think is the best wayto go about that, from other
people.
You know everybody in the, inthe chat.
You know what they have to sayabout what they do keep from
(03:30):
burning out if they never burnout.
I know a couple people I don'tunderstand.
I don't understand how theydon't.
I know a few people is likeOkay, I'm writing three books
and then I'm teaching a class.
Then I'm doing this over here,I'm also doing, you know,
handstands and wind sprints AndI'm like, How are you doing that
?
How so?
but you know, those also aren'tpeople that say they say I
(03:51):
never burn out, and it's notpossible.
There are some people, like Isaid, they're like Oh no, I'm
fine, I'm always fine, That'snot like dangerous territory.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
It is very dangerous because it means they're not
taking a look at themselves andthey're probably neglecting a
lot of other things in our livesand constantly looking for that
next fix of education or cyberor something like that.
And, let's be honest, i feltburnout.
I did.
I literally wanted to quiteverything Because back a few
(04:19):
years ago I was when I firststarted this channel I was doing
five videos a week for five,something like that, plus I was
doing my full time job, plus Iwas a father, plus I'm a husband
, and on top of that I still gotyard work and things around the
house to do.
And then I was still furtheringmy education and doing research
(04:39):
and learning, and CTFs hack thebox, everything like that.
And so very quickly I thought Icould handle it, like I love
this shit, there's no way I canget burnout on something I love.
Like it's impossible, no, youcan't.
And so it got to the point Iwas.
I realized I was neglecting myfamily.
I was neglecting my job becauseI was getting to a point where
(05:02):
I was like I only want to do myjob.
No, and I would like be onsocial media or be doing this as
a way to kind of be like oh,i'm being creative, i'm doing
something, so I don't have toworry about it.
But the reality of it was Istarted pulling away from
everything I love doing And Irealized I got to stop, i got to
slow down, i got to figurethings out And for me it was
(05:24):
cutting back on the amount ofvideos I was doing.
As far as long form.
I got to cut back on, likebeing dedicated to things like
technical, as far as techTuesdays, like my content code,
because my job allows me to betechnical, my job allows me to
do a lot of different things,but as far as content goes,
(05:44):
that's not what I wanted to be.
So me it was more of a chore,and it still is more of a tour.
I'll do it on occasion, butit's more of a tour of me to do
technical content versus thisshow.
And I didn't walk with me andall the motivational stuff that
I do.
So you know, i had toreevaluate who I am, what I want
to do and what's important, andit took a lot of work and I
(06:06):
didn't realize I was burning outtill I was burnt out.
I recognized the signs And sofor me, i literally walk away.
I go, since I.
A big problem in this industry,and a lot of industries, is
you're given unlimited PTO oreven if you're giving PTO like
two, three weeks a year,whatever it would be, people
(06:29):
refuse to take it Like.
I got to be at work.
I got to be at work.
I got to be at work.
Things will fall apart if I'mnot there or I'll have a million
emails to answer when I getback.
And I tell all of my people ifyou go on PTO, i better not see
you sign in the team, i betternot see you sign in to work,
because PTO is for you.
(06:49):
That is who is for you.
Be with your family, be withyour friends, go through, step
away, work when you get back,don't worry about it.
We got you And that way you canrecover and rejuvenate.
That is how I see coming backand avoiding that.
(07:09):
The burnout is taking PTO Andif you haven't limited, take one
week before.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
What do you I'm not trying to flip this into me
interviewing you, but what doyou although I will what do you
think might be some reason, somecause that people just
absolutely cannot I won't saywill not, but absolutely cannot
make themselves not do anythingLike take PTO and actually be
(07:42):
you know the old part of the be,actually be off.
It's not part time on, my parttime, halfway there, it's.
Do not worry about this.
Right now, Reset, rejuvenate,regroup, and there's just a lot
of people and I saidparticularly a lot of people
that I've run across in thisfield.
They just like can't do it,cannot, just can't.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It's not, it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We all make choices in life.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
We choose how we want to live our lives, and I talk
about it.
a lot is the way you feel withway you deal with things is all
a choice.
So for me, what I started doingis, if I take PTO, i cut off
notifications on my phone.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
If.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I don't completely remove an application altogether
.
When I take PTO, i'm there forfamily.
That's the important thing.
Now I may still do content, imay do shorts or something like
that, but it's separate fromwork.
But again, that's because Ihave found a way to separate my
content from the cybersecurityside.
I am now more motivational,more inspirational, do things
(08:40):
more about you know, kind ofthat route, with the exception
of security happy hours, so Ican still do my content and not
feel overwhelmed or get burnedout by it.
But when I cut myself off fromcybersecurity and tech, a lot of
times I disable notificationsand I'm done.
I'll go work in a yard, i'll gocamping, i'll go somewhere
where there's no cell service.
(09:01):
He's like guess what?
Then you don't have an optionGo where there's no cell service
and you ain't got a choice.
I need to get my.
Oh, oh, no, no.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's something that I've just gotten, kind of
gotten not new to, but, you know, reallowing myself to do that,
like I said, i've got this newjob that I work every day.
but I work, you know, most daysand it's usually in the evening
, so I wasn't realizing howtired I was getting.
(09:33):
Like I'd be the end of a classand I'd just be like, oh my God,
what just happened, because itis teaching is a little tiring.
Cyber security is thoughtintensive.
So I'm like why is this goingon?
Turned off my phone today,didn't answer any messages till
about six o'clock.
I feel like a brand new woman.
but it took a second of beinglike no, i don't have to keep
(09:54):
hopping up to see if this emailis sent.
No, i don't have to read aboutthis particular thing today,
it'll still be there tomorrow.
And, just like I said, tryingto switch off, switch off.
that got to be always onmentality, that I guess it.
and it's really easy to get,get swept up into it, because
(10:16):
when you see everybody aroundyou doing all this stuff all the
time, it's like if I don't doall the stuff, all the things
all the time, i'm not going tobe able to keep up.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So one of our good friends posts about burnout and
mental health and taking a break, and he just did so.
Today I saw that J J Davy,straight up, pointed out.
And so here's the thing youwill realize, those that have
actually lived that life andgotten burnout and know it's
(10:47):
possible and have been dealtwith imposter syndrome and have
dealt with everything else arestarting to come out the
woodwork and tell you that youneed to take a break.
And one of the things that I'ma man is coming up here in a
second because, right in linewith hers, one of the things it
took When I was in the military.
If I took leave, i was stillworking.
(11:08):
I was still making phone calls.
I was still doing things.
I was still working 24, seven.
It did not stop Whether I wason leave on duty, if it was a
four day weekend, if it was justat night, i was always working.
I did it all the time.
And then when I retired, it wasthe same way.
I was always working.
I was like I am available,let's talk, let's work, let's do
(11:29):
this, this, this and this.
It wasn't until 2020.
Near the end of 2020.
We actually, probably about midyear, we went to Tennessee.
That was the first time ever inmy life and career.
I cut everything off and said Iam only going to be there with
my family.
It was the most refreshingthing I had ever done.
(11:51):
And so, from then on, what Ihad started doing and I'm going
to put this up is settingboundaries Where, after a
certain time so let's just sayeight to five is your schedule
time to work, which we all knowin this field.
You can work late, you can workearly, there's a bunch of
different things, but let's justsay you have to be there eight
(12:12):
to five.
Fine, if I got to be sitting atmy computer from eight to five,
then at five o'clock, i'm done.
You can't talk to me, i'm out.
I'm not even gonna look at thecomputer.
I might have my notificationson, just in case something
serious happens, because that'sthe type of person I am.
But if it's just, hey, can weget this done?
Yeah, tomorrow when I show backup, or actually, in this case,
(12:35):
tuesday when I'm back at work,sure.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, I'll do it.
Don't let it be a long weekendand you want to throw something
at me at 455 on a Friday?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
precisely So.
That is one of those thingsthat you have to set those
boundaries And and Amanda saysit right here Not in the
industry yet, but generalburnout tactic I have is setting
boundaries not only with othersbut most importantly with
myself, and that is vital youhave to.
When I walk, you know this,especially in the Dealing with
(13:07):
spirituality and things likethat, you have to have that
introspective look at yourselfand know who you are inside And
know when to just be like youknow what I gotta stop.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I'm cuz.
Otherwise, if you're lookingfor, if you're looking for all
of it From outside of you, thenyou're never, you're never gonna
be full.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
No.
I'm gonna be looking, and soyou've got to be able to sit
back, take that look and likeyou know what?
something's not right,something here is not right.
I got a step away.
And that's where yourmeditation, your nature walks,
your, your Calisthenics you'reworking out, whatever the case
may be.
That's where all that comesinto play, because then You can,
(13:46):
however, you meditate, whichisn't just sitting cross-legged
and meditating, no, no, no.
However, you focus That'sthat's what you need to do and
really figure out who you are,what's going on, and re-center
yourself.
Once you're re-centered, onceyou have that balance again,
then okay, then we can go backto figure out.
What do I need to do to movefurther, to do more things, and
(14:10):
And that would be how that worksout, but so many people are
afraid to do that.
They're afraid to look inside.
Everything is about the outside.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's very true, that's very true.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Let's see another one from Amanda.
When I started a business, imade myself get a separate phone
and nothing business relatedwas on my phone.
When I was done working ortaking a day off, i turned that
phone off and leave it at home.
Oh, that's a good one, it's areally good one.
Yeah, i don't have a work phone.
I keep saying I might get one,just so I don't have random
(14:43):
people calling my phone.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
But I haven't done it like my company.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I work for stratus scale.
They'll pay for my now, but Ijust I'm like Work in a hassle
and like wait for it, and then Ihave two phones.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it's, i don't know, exciting.
It's.
It's kind of There was no fineline, things like you know.
Like I said earlier,perseverance being in, and the
flip side of burnout andperseverance is I was going
somewhere with this.
I was going going somewherewith this.
What did you just say aboutbeing accessible but Not being
(15:20):
too accessible?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, like it So.
So here's the way, and this isI'm interviewing people now for
a senior role and and one of thethings I tell people is You
know, i don't necessarily keephours, right, i'm lucky to have
a senior role, right, i'm notgonna sit here and expect you to
be there eight to five, nine tofive, whatever the case may be.
Expect your work to get done.
Your work It's done, great.
However, because of that, andbecause I'm not looking for you
(15:44):
to put in nine, ten, eleven,twelve hours a day, if I need
you late at night becausesomething came up with a client,
i am expecting to be able toget a hold of you because I'm
giving you your time to dowhatever.
So, if you need a lunch breakfor two, three hours because
you've got an appointment andyou got all these other things
to do and you got Familyactivities and everything like
(16:05):
that, great, go do it.
You need to go pick your kidsup and go hang out with them
Great, go do it.
You, you've got you know hockeyand all this other stuff with
your family, great, go do it.
But at the same time, if I gota client that gets breached and
I call you at ten o'clock atnight because I need you to come
in and do some.
I already do some other workfor me.
(16:26):
I don't want to hear, oh, ican't be there, i, oh, i'm just
waking up or done it.
No, no, no, get your coffee.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
There's a trade-off there for that kind of yeah.
And that's something that is notas it's another another kind of
difference in in this fieldfrom any One that I've been in
before.
It was, you know, her officesthat I worked at.
If your lunch break was from 12o'clock to 1 o'clock and you
came strolling in there at 101,you were gonna get caught on the
(16:56):
carpet and it was gonna just bea big ugly mess And I'm just
like, okay, over one minute thatI probably at some point in
time have worked through lunch.
You know, and it's all like Isaid, you know, burnt myself
down to the nub for You know,for you to be, you know at me
about this one minute.
That is one of those things thatseems kind of cool.
(17:17):
There is kind of cool aboutcybersecurity is, if you know in
the right office, in the rightorganization, sure, you might,
they might expect you, you knowto be, you know ready for you
know ready for action at 11o'clock at night Sometimes.
But if you have a doctor'sappointment that runs 30 minutes
over, you're not gonna hearabout that for the next three
(17:38):
months and why you're not,you're responsible, and why you
know this, you're not gonna dealwith that and what you'll find
in a lot of these good companiesAnd I do got a question here
from a Sarnay are, or infiniteand probability AI.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
But what you'll find in a lot of these companies that
are now Understanding moreabout the industry and more
about the field and you have alot of these younger managers
coming up is that look as longas you're at your meetings,
right.
So if you, especially forclient facing, if you attend
your client meetings and clientwork is getting done, i Don't,
i'm not logging your time.
(18:14):
I'm not sitting here looking atwhether or not you're logged in
nine hours a day or ten hours aday.
So it's about as long as thework is getting done and the
company's making money, what doI care?
I don't care what you do withyour day.
But again, that comes down to a.
We don't work in an office,we're all remote and be.
If I call you at 11 o'clock atnight or one o'clock in the
(18:36):
morning or you know whatever,especially if you're on call
because we're working on on oncall schedules and you don't
answer, we got bigger issues onme because now I'm giving you
freedom and then you're notthere when I need you.
Great and that's and that's thebig thing.
But I do have a good questionhere, and when I was Well, this
(18:59):
one might be good for you toanswer.
Even though I might answer Iwill, I will answer it as well.
One of the first steps indealing with burnout is
recognizing the signs.
What do you consider to be thesigns of burning out?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I Was safe.
For me personally, myconcentration isn't quite the
same.
You know, other parts of mylife seem to.
Everything just seems a littlebit a skew.
It's like working quite rightand I'm getting in arguments
with everybody in my family.
I personally get stress,headaches And like, like you
(19:34):
know, like you were saying, it'ssometimes it's hard to know the
signs going into it before youuntil you're into it.
No, it's important to know foryou individually, before you
wind up.
Just, you know, weight in thedepths of you know, screw it all
, burn out.
I'm not doing any of this atall.
See y'all later by, as it is avery you know it's very
(19:55):
individual thing.
But you know for, for, not youknow, as far as your job, you
know not Not feeling like youcare as much about what you care
about what you're doing, butyou're just you're, you're not
as sharp and it's just a wholecombination of things.
It's a very, no, veryindividual, but those are kind
of the.
(20:15):
The big three for me is I cantell you know, i start getting a
headache and one eye.
That means okay, you need toslow down.
I'm real crabby and justsnarking at everybody and I'm
not.
My focus is just, no matter howmuch I try to concentrate, it's
just not.
Things are just bouncing off mybrain.
They're not getting in there,they're just kind of sliding off
(20:36):
.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, you get that ADHD like to an extreme where
it's like nothing's ever nothingis You know you're all over the
place all the time.
Yes, so, like my thing is, i Didnot realize Burnout symptoms
until it was too late, because Ihad never felt it before, or at
least I did.
Maybe I had and not realize itright.
(20:58):
It's one of those things whereI just didn't really click for
me, but I for me it's definitelywhen you know long, when you
start to realize you don't enjoywhat you're doing anymore.
Now, by that time it might be alittle too late.
But that was the biggest thingfor me is I no longer enjoyed
Hacking.
I no longer into well,offensive security.
(21:19):
I no longer enjoyed.
You know, my job is a wholeContent.
As much as I love helpingpeople.
I felt like I was kind of justthere, like I was just, you know
, phoning it in and not reallyme.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
You're not your heart .
Your heart in your, your hands,barely in it.
In your heart's definitely not.
And you're just telling me Whatam I doing this for?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, there was there was so much, and then, on top
of that, i was depressed.
I was extremely depressed.
I was taking it out on myfamily.
I was yelling at my kids when Ishouldn't been, for like the
dumbest shit, like there was noreason for me to be doing it.
And I was, and You know, me andmy wife, we were just having
issues because I was not beingthe husband I should have been,
(22:01):
and so There was a lot that wentinto it.
But it wasn't until I cut thingsoff that I realized, oh shit, i
burn out right like I wasburning the candle at both ends
and probably even a third end inthe middle somewhere.
Like I, literally this thingwas burning hot and burning
quick And I didn't realize itand you think you're.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You think you're fine because, well, some people
don't think they're fine, butyou think you're fine because
you're busy.
It's like, okay, i can't becompletely just tapped out
because, look how much stuff I'mgetting done.
It's like, well, that's kind ofthe burn part of the burnout.
That's that's, you know, theand it's it's knowing, you know,
knowing the difference betweenwhat, for you, is, you know,
(22:45):
some people, some people, justyou know, can get closer, look
closer, to ribbon in the red andthat's there, that's how they,
that's how they operate Andthey're able to do that.
Some people cannot even getright here without being like,
okay, you know what.
This is affecting everythingand I only got, you know, a
(23:05):
little bit fine, finite amountof energy that is quickly
getting sapped.
I need to do something like.
I don't know who said it.
Somebody in chat said somethinglike, something like the
further you, the longer it takesyou to realize, to get at it,
the longer it's gonna take youto get back.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's, that's Griffin, and yeah, it's right
here The longer you wait, thelonger recovery takes, and and
it's so true.
But Amanda put it right here Irealize I'm getting there when I
start to not enjoy what I'mdoing.
If somebody in cybersecurity,somebody like myself, who has
always enjoyed breaking intoshit, always I could sit there
(23:47):
on hack the box and literally upuntil I went for my Gram and
OSCP, i had cleared out everyhack the box machine except for
the two hardest ones.
Every single one was gone.
And After I got done with grim,then I did my OSCP, plus I was
working full-time In a positionof pen testing.
I was just not.
(24:08):
I was spent.
Plus all of my my content,everything else I was doing, i
Was spent.
I was like I can't do thisanymore.
And then, as you get into a roleof a pen tester and then you
realize, well, it's a lot ofpaperwork and then, well, we
didn't have a ton of clientscoming in at the time for the
old company I worked for, so Iwas doing a lot of presale shit.
I wasn't necessarily doing pentesting, but then I was like
(24:30):
learning pen testing, it wasjust, it was a whole head.
I was like I'm done, i quit.
And so that was the year,because that was 2020.
That was the year when I tookvacation.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
It was the first time I realized Clearing my phone,
killing notifications, killingeverything was the best thing I
could do because 2020 was thatyear for a whole lot of people
because we had to scream, sosome of it some of it would be
had to scream to a Hall.
So I think a lot of peoplerealized then that they were
Have been pushing themselves toa point that really wasn't
healthy.
(25:02):
Yes, because we had the sensedeal.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, not just that, but when you, i've been working
remote since 2018.
Right.
So before the pandemic, beforeall that bull should happen, i
was working remotely.
I have not been to an office towork Since that time.
So you're looking at five yearsnow that I've been remote and
not step foot in an office foras a working environment.
(25:28):
The last company I worked forwas we got together for like a
gathering.
They did some marketing shit,we took some headshots and did
some other stuff, but it wasn'tnecessarily for work.
That was the only time I'd goneto that office, besides to pick
up my equipment and a drop offactually, no, i didn't drop off
my equipment, i think I'd mailedit back, so to pick up my
equipment, and so I've not seenoffices.
(25:49):
So, for me, what I do,especially in this field, if you
can avoid being in an officeand working remote and
personally, i will not work atan odd, at a job that requires
me to go to the office at all.
If, if Showing up to an officeis required, i won't take the
job, i'll be up.
No, i'm done, and the reasonfor that is for two reasons.
(26:11):
One, working from home, i getmore work done than I'll ever
get done in an office, becausein an office I'm a walk around,
i'm a bullshit with people, i'ma talk.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You be talking, you'll be outside smoking, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
First off out of the army.
I got yelled at for how much Ismoke.
First up out of the armybecause I was a Manager, slash,
consultant, slash, it was awhole thing and I got paid shit.
I got paid like 60 grand a yearand I'm like you're paying me
this much money to betechnically a manager every hour
.
I was outside smoking andPeople were bitching because
(26:45):
they looked through the windowsee me out at the smoke pit and
then they start complaining likeoh.
He's out there all the time I'veworked this done.
Shut the hell up.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I went through that.
I haven't smoked cigarettes inprobably five years, but I would
get that all the time like,okay, i need to get up for a
second so I can reset my brainRight, so I can come back to
what I'm doing and have it makesense to me and to you.
She's out there smoking again.
You know what.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I did the best in the army the, the and this is what
people don't understand and Andthe reason I'm kind.
One of the reasons I'm kind oflike this is in the army.
That's where work got done wasat the smoke pit, because you'd
go out there you'd smoke, youtalk, you like, hey, i need x, y
and z.
Alright, cool, hey, can you doyou know a, b and c for me?
Yeah, i got you, no worries,and you go back in and get done,
(27:31):
as opposed through thebureaucracy and the red tape and
the paperwork and all the otherBS, smoked pits and bars or
where work is where people tendto What.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's, there's, you know, lot,
like you said less red tape,less All the formality that
people are trying to know.
I'm gonna make sure I do thisright, like, look, this is what
I need, yeah, this is what I cando for you, okay, well, can you
do this like this Absolutely,and it's not all the well.
I've got to send this form toso and so, and that form had
send that, the form to so and so, is that?
(28:08):
that can add to a lot of jobstress.
A lot of burnout too is havingto go through.
I Want to call them extra stepsbecause I'm not gonna say, you
know, for everybody's situation,you know everybody's office.
They might be very, very validreasons that they're doing it
the way that they're doing it,but it just never seems to be as
(28:29):
as smooth and as efficient asit could be Without all that
extra jump.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Oh for sure.
and now, misha, misha, i'm gladyou show up, man you know what.
I'm up in, they show up indroves.
I love it, but Misha got agreat question here, and So when
I walk, you are working at acollege, correct?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Sort of kind of no, actually, more than yes.
I am working for a company thatdoes All kinds of different
boot camps for over.
I'm the minus.
The one I'm doing iscybersecurity teaching and Is it
remote?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
It is remote, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, i'm nowhere near the college that I work at.
I've never even been to thisstate, so okay, so.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So then, all right.
I'm asking, because then thatmeans you're working remotely.
We can both answer thisquestion What do you do for
burnout when you don't have PTOand you don't have a place to
take a break from it all due towork at home jobs?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Somebody actually already Earlier, early up in
this, in this scroll, said whatI, what I always do I get in my
car and I drive and I listen toAmanda, amanda, yeah and I
scream and I sing and you knowif you see me going down the
street, you know, listen toQueen really loud and wave of
arms a lot.
(29:54):
Mind your business, that's whatI do.
I go out and take walks asanother thing that I do.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So me personally.
Now I get PTO.
The last three companies Iworked for had unlimited PTO.
I try to make it a point totake a week off every quarter,
but it doesn't always happen,because I'm one of those people
that if I have meetings I gothomie.
Don't be putting your hand infront of my camera, we'll be
fighting.
I hope you put, i'm sorry, myyoungest son.
(30:24):
I don't know if you saw it, myyoungest son.
I saw his hand or something.
His hand was like you knowright here, I saw it.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter, i'm a whoops, you're right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Ooh, ooh, you got, and you got five of those.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
He's my youngest, oh my goodness.
So so yeah.
So for me you know I go outsidea lot, i take my smoke breaks
and literally I will get up formy computer.
It could be 30 minutes after Ihad a cigarette, it could be an
hour, it could be two hours,depends what I'm doing I don't
feel, because I'm remote, idon't feel the need to like put
(31:05):
a limit on it, like if I'mstressed and I'm just dealing
with a ton of stuff, i'll get upevery 15, 20 minutes, every
five, six, seven minutes If mybrain keeps getting into a knot,
which that's indicative ofsomething.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Usually, you know if I'm getting frustrated that
often.
But if I need to get up, andyou know, until it makes sense
or until that knot gets out ofmy brain, i'm not gonna set
myself the time like, okay, well, i'll work for an hour and then
I can take 30 minutes.
You know, if it's just not, ifit's a day where that's just not
working, if I can work for 10minutes and then take a 20
(31:38):
minute break, if that's one ofthe good things that need.
Things about working from home,you know.
I mean especially if you have,i know, some remote offices
doing now where I don't evenreally understand it, where you
have to be at your keyboard, thepeople always talking about
doing getting mouse jigglers andall this stuff, and I'm just
like, why are you even settingyourself up for that?
(32:00):
Why, even so that I don't knowanything about all that There
are?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
companies and I know this because and I'm not gonna
speak on who I know someone thatif it doesn't show them active
and logged into teams orwhatever they're using for time
or whatever nine hours a dayminus whatever your lunch break
is they get yelled at.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, and I just I don't understand how like I said
, i'm not a manager, but I don'tunderstand how you can have
people that work with you andfor you work efficiently like
that, because, no, i just Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
If anybody, anybody who grew up in office to work,
especially homie, quit trying toget in front of my camera,
especially in the, you know, anytype of like white collar.
I don't even know what you callcybersecurity, i don't know,
but it'd be like blue collar,white collar, it would be more
white collar, but I don't.
A soul.
(32:55):
No, no, no.
Sky blue maybe.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Sky blue collar With white Powder blue collar is it?
No, it's not a collar at all,it's a hoodie.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
There you go, all right.
So if you work in the hoodieindustry, you know, and even
it's been in for a whileunderstand that in an office
work doesn't get done becauseyou've constantly got people at
your door, you've constantly gotpeople coming to your office or
always in meetings there'salways something going on.
So the reality of it is theamount of work people think that
(33:25):
gets done in office doesn'tactually get done because you're
only working while it gets done.
But you're only working likefour hours a day.
You're actually workingprobably half of your day.
The other half to you knowthree quarters is spent talking,
smoking, bsing, whatever eating.
You name it social media, it iswhat it is Whereas at home you
(33:50):
will work past the work timejust because you're like.
You know what?
I realize I've been out likeall day.
I've had appointments.
I got shit that needs to getdone.
I'm just gonna get it done, andbecause you have not had you're
not driving.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
You can get in that zone.
You know you can get in thatzone.
You know everybody knows aboutgetting in the zone where you
kind of just flow and there'snobody coming to your door, not,
not, not.
Well, now, what can you do?
Oh, oh, oh, that's the worst.
It was like oh my.
God, I was doing it and youcame in and stuck your head in
the door.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
When I was in an office I didn't have that issue
because nobody I wasn't.
It was an office shared ofpeople who was.
It wasn't cubicles, it was justdifferent desks.
I'm gonna whoop your ass on me.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Oh, somebody's going to forget it when the show is
over, right?
So?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
it's just one of those things.
So, Misha, to be completelyhonest, to kind of follow up on
this question, you know if youdon't have PTO, you need to work
for a new company, And I knowwhere you're at, Misha.
So if the company you arecurrently with doing
pharmaceutical shit, you need tofind a new one until you can
(35:00):
get into cybersecurity, becauseyou should have PTO.
And when you take PTO you shuteverything off, You don't answer
shit, you don't answer calls.
You should have numbers of worknumbers stored in your phone so
that you know you can hit,ignore and say fuck you.
Like that's the point you needto get to is being able to say
(35:22):
fuck you, I'm not here.
Holy shit, Jack's ass.
I saw that.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
That was funny, he's smiling.
I was like, hey, jack's is inthe house.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I love it.
Jess Bishop's, here I feel blue.
James Giles or Giles.
I don't know how to pronouncehis last name.
Everybody's in the house.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Jay in here.
Jay Stollard, did I see you inhere?
Jeff, Jerry, jerry, jerry,jerry I don't know where Jerry
hold on.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I gotta find him.
Did I see him?
He is here, stollard is hereSpeak up.
Jerry Stollard there he is.
I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
He's like that too.
Nobody calls him Jerry, that'sit.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Jack is also here, in case you're wondering.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, hey, jack, saw you two.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The one who has been dealing with a lot of shit.
We're not gonna get into it.
That's his business, but he'sin the house again, so thank you
, jack, for showing up Amandastarring in AR Griffin, infosec
the Landsharks.
So that's my boy, williamBailey.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Andrea.
I just wanted to saycongratulations to Andrea
personally.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Oh, actually, yeah, So I don't know if she put it
out yet She did, but I didn'tcause I didn't see the post She
did.
All right, so she did.
You saw the post.
Yes, you see the post, allright, i did not see the post.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I did, I did.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
If I, if I, if I did, i did.
okay, i'm sitting here likedon't have me getting beat up.
I saw it.
You're right.
I know I think about it.
I saw it.
Look, it's been a hot minute,All right, it's been a long day.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I know it's fine, but I'm not trying to get beat up
before because of your ownmemory lapses.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
No, you won't, Because Andrea will come after
me and yell at me for notremembering.
So you're okay, But I doremember now.
And yes, for everybody outthere Andrea Myler has, who has
been a huge supporter of thisshow, especially since he's been
on and found us, one of my, oneof my warriors, someone I
promote a little time justrecently today, Pastor Security
(37:12):
Plus.
So kudos, Andrea, I love you.
Thank you for passing that, orelse I would have had to like
find you down in Atlanta orwherever the hell you're at
these days and whoop your assbecause, come on, girl, you you
know your shit.
Like had you failed that, meand you would have been fighting
, Just saying I'm the onlyperson.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
So so That's between y'all.
I'm not getting into thisAndrea.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I love Andrea.
She always yells at me like ifI say something, like if I, if I
ever like, have a bad day.
this is why I love her, becauseshe'll yell at you.
What the hell's your bad dayfor?
because I'm broke up on thewrong side of the bed.
Well, go back in your bed andfind the right side.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That's funny.
At all the times I've heardthat phrase about getting up on
the wrong side of the bed.
I'll think I've ever heardanybody give that answer.
Andrea, andrew's the onlyanswer.
It's like well, when you figureout where the right one is,
then come back and see me.
I love Andrea.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Andrea will always be my sister, one of our warriors.
Of course, within the family, ilove her to death.
But let's talk aboutperseverance a little bit,
because we are about 40 minutesin And that's another big thing
because we're going to finddifferent areas.
So burnout is one of thosethings.
Again, we talked aboutperseverance, a whole different
(38:39):
concept, and this is where Ithink my lovely one now.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I'm sorry I got distracted.
Somebody else passed the cizer,which really meant a lot to me.
Focus I'm focused.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Oh, it's not on AR.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Oh, it's not on AR.
Congratulations buddy, i'm sosorry.
That's my brother from the Army.
Let me focus over here.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
My brother from the Army.
It's OK, But perseverance whatdoes that mean to you And why is
that so important?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
That means to me, that means not giving up at the
times I really want to.
You know, to push past a badday or to push past I don't
understand this one thing To notbe like I don't get this, i'm
done.
You know, to give myself achance to get it.
You know to give myself achance to be good at something.
(39:36):
You know not when somethinggets difficult and just like
it's too hard And just quit,it's pushing myself past, not to
pass A limit, not pass you knowmy absolute limit where I'm not
past the burnout, but pushingmyself a little bit past
comfortable to be able toachieve a goal or All right hold
(40:01):
up Hold up, come here.
Hey Now here we go Let me go.
Oh, my goodness, Love it, loveit.
But yeah, just to push pastcomfortable a little bit, not
give up, but somewhere, like Isaid, that's still that fine
line where I'm not going to pushmyself into, you know, an
(40:25):
aneurysm, but I'm not going togive up.
I'm not going to give upbecause I stub my toe.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, and that's one of those things, right.
So when I think of perseverance, i think about picking yourself
up, being willing to fall downover and over again.
Now, yes, there's going to getto a point where it becomes too
much.
There's going to it's going toget to a point where maybe
eventually you realize it's justnot possible, like there are.
(40:52):
there are going to be obstaclesin our life.
There are going to be thingsthat happen that are just
absolutely impossible toovercome.
And I don't I don't say thatlightly, because I am one of
those people, of course, as youknow that says you can push past
anything with help, with, byyourself, as long as you have
the willpower to do it.
But there are just certainconcepts, certain things,
(41:14):
certain areas of life.
For instance, i could never bea nurse or doctor, and it has
nothing to do with not beingable to learn it.
It's because, from the time mywife got an epidural, i can't
handle the sight of blood, justthat Why, i don't know, it's a
good thing, but it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
So you have to know your limit.
I don't have limitations, butnot limitations.
What's the word?
I'm looking for Your parameters, something like limitations,
Because that doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
You have to know your barriers, thank you, and I mean
true barriers, not the glassceiling, because that glass
ceiling is garbage and that issomething you put on yourself.
I'm talking barriers like brickwall with freaking defenses and
everything else Yeah, that typeof shit.
So I could never do somethinglike that.
(42:05):
But there are things in lifethat you self impose barriers
And that is where perseverancecomes in, because that is when
you can sit there.
You fell down, maybe you didn'tpass the test.
Guess what?
I'm going to get my ass back up, i'm going to learn it and I'm
going to go back.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
And I'm definitely going to pass it that time.
Yeah, that's perseverance.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Maybe you didn't get a job, or 100 jobs or 1,000 jobs
.
But here's the thing If itmeans enough to you and if you
really believe in yourself andyou really believe, I ain't
going to say you believe inyourself because, let's be
honest, if there are about 100,200, 300 failed jobs, job
interviews or whatever the casemay be, you may be lacking that
belief in yourself, But itdoesn't mean you can't do it.
(42:49):
You persevere, you overcome andyou keep going at it, Because
that field itself, thatknowledge you have, is important
.
So you have to be able toovercome.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I applied for and within six months, I want to say
I put out about 250 jobapplications before I got my job
.
So it got real depressing there.
For a minute It was like, OK,this is never going to happen.
Never is a very long time, Andit was definitely not ever going
to happen if I just quit.
(43:22):
So that was kind of what keptme going, is if I stopped doing
this altogether and I gotnothing out of it as just
something else that I'm going tohave to tell myself, well, you
didn't do this, You didn'tcomplete this, And then I'd be
mad at myself because it'ssomething I know I can do.
I just didn't keep at it.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
And that's one of the things.
So me and Amanda talkedyesterday.
One of the things we talkedabout was just the obstacles we
face, the things we go throughand the way we deal with
situations, the way we deal withpeople.
And for me, the way I look atall these things is no matter
(44:03):
what happens in life, you canovercome it, you can deal with
it.
You just have to have the rightmindset.
Now, for some it's faith andspirituality, for some it's just
belief in self.
For some there's all theseother different reasons people
can do it.
(44:25):
Some people just give up onthemselves because they don't
have the support system behindthem to say they can actually
handle it They can do that, youcan overcome that, and I'll be
the first one to tell you Amanda, who I've been talking to for a
while because she's good people, and I'm getting her into
cybersecurity past her firstweek of Google, you know,
(44:46):
cybersecurity boot camp.
Hurrah, amanda, love you girl.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
So that's a huge deal because that first week if you
can get through that first.
some people get scared off inthe first week and they're like
I cannot do this, so don't poopoo the first week.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Well, there's always, there's also a stipulation
between me and her of hergetting through that And it's a
bet Well, not really a bet, butit is.
It's not me and her going onwhere I was like look, you do
this, i got you, but if shequits, say no more.
You out girl, you lost, andit's nothing serious, it's just
(45:34):
a situation.
I know some of the situationsshe's in.
I'm just like I got you, I'lltake care of you.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Could have bought her a jumbo jet.
That's not my business, that'sy'all.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Doesn't matter what it is, she's taken care of.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
As long as she keeps at it, she quits doing it.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
That's when And that's it.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
We got issues.
That seems I do have a questionhere from Jax, and I'm going to
let you handle this one Can youhave perseverance without being
resilient?
Or are they the same, or dothey work synergistically
together?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Y'all going to make me think today.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Oh, you've got to think And I'm going to let you
think because you're going solo.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Oh yeah, ok, Nothing but my face in the screen.
Can you have perseverancewithout being resilient?
I'm going to answer this inparts.
You can, i think, but that'swhen you start running into
possible burnout If you keep atsomething and you keep at
something and you keep atsomething but you're just
(46:33):
wearing yourself down, you'renot building yourself back up or
you're not Teflon tough on theoutside.
That's not going to be good.
I don't think they're the same.
I don't know how to explain.
They're not one.
One is to me more of an actionthan the other one.
It's kind of more of a state ofbeing.
Ideally ideal situation whenyou get most success is when you
(46:57):
persevere and you're resilient.
Hope that made sense.
Like I said, if I've got areally soft head, this is a very
resilient example.
If I've got a really soft headand I want to keep beating my
head into a wall, that's notgoing to end well.
As if I have a really thickhead and I'm doing this, ok yeah
(47:18):
, i'm persevering at it, but myhead's not resilient, so I'm
going to wind up with a big dentin my forehead.
So was that not a perfectexample?
Was that not just that big anexample?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
But that's my opinion , that's my thought.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So the way I see it is like this, and Jax is going
to completely understand where Icome from, because it's from a
military background Where thatclass comes from.
Resiliency and perseverance aretwo completely different things
.
They can work together, butidealistically they're different
.
You see, perseverance is goingto give you that ability to keep
going.
Resilience is going to give youthe ability to continuously
(47:55):
pick yourself up in the righthead space So you could be
persevered and you can keepgoing.
But eventually it's going towear on you.
If you're not resilient, ifyou're not able to reevaluate,
if you're not able to meditate,if you're not able to take
yourself out of this situation,take the time to rebuild,
(48:18):
recharge, regain yourself.
Then I don't care how much youpersevere, eventually you're
just going to give up.
You're not going to keep doingit because you're not resilient
enough to deal with the failure.
Two completely different things.
Perseverance allows you to keepgoing, but eventually you're
going to get beat down.
Resilience allows you to buildyourself back up every single
(48:39):
time you fall.
Are they synergistic?
I would say yes.
I think you need both.
You need resilience andperseverance.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Oh man, sometimes you need to reset to keep going.
And yes, jacks did say love it.
Yes, it makes sense.
This is to you.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I believe you need to work together.
When I started going off intothat soft head analogy, I was
like, oh Lord, here I go, Allright.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Oh man.
But yeah, perseverance is oneof those things that I think a
lot of people lack.
Well, no, let me correct that.
It's the resilience they lackBecause, after so much failure,
they feel like they just can'tdo it, and it's because they
have not practiced anything totruly make them resilient.
They've not looked atthemselves, they've not
(49:32):
reevaluated their situation,they've not tried to change the
way they do things, they've notset goals, they've not really
done things properly.
I think that the resiliencyfactor, and especially how we're
trained in the army and in themilitary in general, i believe
has all the same courses.
I think that resiliency factoris what's missing.
(49:54):
You could persevere, you cancontinue to push and push and
push every time you get knockeddown, but I equate it to
insanity When you try the samething over and over and over
again and you know it's notgoing to work.
That's the definition ofinsanity You're not changing
anything, you're just going tocompletely.
You know you're just going todo the same thing and not change
(50:14):
anything, whereas resiliencyallows you to reevaluate
yourself and reevaluate thesituation and really figure out
how to change things.
So I think resiliency is a bigpart of it, but anyways, because
I think, oh, wait, hold on.
I was about to say I broughtout a question.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, no, I saw a good one in there.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Ben Franklin says persistence conquers all things,
but sometimes it's not worththe effort.
Have you ever conquered throughpersistence, only to realize it
was not worth the cost?
slash benefits.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I'm not inviting y'all next time Making me use my
brain and mind.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
So the reality of it is has there ever been anything
you've done in your life thattook you a while to do, took a
lot of failure?
maybe not a lot, but you'vefailed, you've failed whatever.
You got back up, kept winning,and then you realized this shit
sucks.
I should have done it in thefirst place.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Not really.
I mean, i'm not going to saythere's been things that I
thought was going to be sunshineand lollipops and it wasn't as
much sunshine or as manylollipops as I thought, but just
for me, just the act of justthe process of sticking with
(51:42):
something and knowing that I cando it brought a lot of value to
it for me.
I mean, i can't think ofanything that I've done that was
really difficult and I got itin and was like, well, this is
just stupid.
Nothing off the top of my head.
I'll keep thinking on that one,but I can't really think of
something.
That's just been like super,duper hard And then I finally
(52:04):
got, you know, you got an endgame and I was like this was
pointless.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
My experience Having five boys.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
No, no, not allowed to make all that.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Try for a girl.
got five boys.
That's the problem.
My wife said, yeah, marriage Igot some rough, rough room.
(52:44):
This is one of those things.
So here's the thing And this issomething you know, you know
about me.
Everybody here should knowabout me by now.
It's yes, i will take somethingthat should be a serious topic
burnout, perseverance, you nameit How I did it today on my
LinkedIn post when I gave myweekend safety brief.
You know, i will take a serioustopic and make light of things
(53:06):
solely because one I'm a veteranand that's how we get through
situations.
Dark humor is our shit.
That's that's how we surviveall the bullshit to, because I
honestly do think it's hilarious.
So you can give me a deep topicand I'm still going to make
light of the situation.
Like me, love me, hate me, idon't give a damn.
That's just the way I am.
(53:28):
Yeah, marriage is definitelyone of those things you got to
overcome.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
I can't say that Well , I'm not married anymore, So I
don't really you know, but Ithat.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
I'm not married.
My wife look at it and we askeach other every day Why did I
marry you?
I don't fucking know, wow.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
But there's all the jokes, but those things.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
You look at each other and you go there's a grain
of truth in it.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
You're weird.
Why did?
Speaker 1 (54:03):
I marry you.
I don't fucking know, why didyou know?
Speaker 2 (54:08):
It's a great idea at the time.
I'm not sure what happened.
It's all love.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
It is.
If you can talk shit on eachother, do you really love?
you, you're with the wrongperson.
Let's see Where is itEstablished?
dominance Angie knows what it'sall about.
So you don't know.
The weekend safety brief isthis Do not add to the
(54:35):
population, Do not subtract fromthe population, Do not end up
in the hospital, newspaper orjail.
If you do end up in jail,establish dominance quickly.
And I'm going to add anotherline to that If you cannot
establish dominance, please goup to the biggest person in your
cell, grab their pocket and youare now their bitch.
They will take care of you.
So you don't know thedifference.
It's all over the place.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
Now We can safely brief.
We added the new line We'regood to go.
That's a tactic.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Definitely a tactic.
Look, this is all in fun.
Here's the thing.
It's very funny.
We're at almost the top of thehour, which of course means you
know you're going to be givenyour words of wisdom, your
little lesson but of advice,your information to the
community, information to thecommunity.
Before we do that, I wanna sayone thing.
Those who know me know I'm aveteran.
(55:28):
Those who've been watching fora while knows I've been around
for a little while.
So please do me a favor do notgo up to any veteran, any active
duty service member, and tellthem happy Memorial Day and
thank you for your service.
That is not what it's about.
It is about those who havefallen, Those who did not make
it home, those who maybe made ithome but are no longer with us
(55:49):
because of other reasons.
So, for this Memorial Dayweekend and because of the
issues at hand, talk to any ofyour veteran brothers and
sisters that you know, check inon them, make sure they're okay.
I got lucky.
I have not lost anyone overseas, but there is a lot of people
out there that have.
So before you say happyMemorial Day, please make sure
(56:11):
mentally they're okay andthey're not dealing with the
loss of those that came beforeand dealing with survivor's
guilt.
So that is my spiel on MemorialDay weekend.
It is for those we lost, notthose that are here.
Other than that, please give ussome words of burnout,
perseverance and any otheradvice.
You know the drill for thosetrying to enter the field and
(56:35):
those that may already be in.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
Okay, don't give up.
I know that sounds very cookiecutter.
And when you get to the pointwhere you just you don't think
you can like, you don't know howto ask questions, don't let
that stop you.
But listen to yourself, listento your body, listen to your
(57:02):
mind, your mental health, andpay attention to that.
Don't feel like you have togrind yourself down to a paste
to be successful in this field.
You know like, if everybodytakes breaks from you know way
up here to somebody who startedlast month you know you have to
take care of yourself.
You have to put mask on yourown face first or you're not
(57:23):
gonna be any good to yourself,your company, anybody else.
Know yourself first and knowthat you can do this.
Whatever this is, you fill inthe blank with your this.
Whatever this is, this might besomething else.
This be good to yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Definitely, Definitely, And that's one of
the things I wanna add on to youknow, with burnout and
perseverance there's two verydifferent things is when you
persevere too much, you doeventually burn out, especially
if you don't have resilience,especially if you're not ever
taking time out for yourself.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
You wanna know how to prevent burnout.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
I'm gonna tell you right now cut yourself off from
technology.
Every week At a certain pointin time in the week, cut the
technology out, live your life,get out in nature.
I understand it's hard forpeople.
You don't want your feet totouch grass.
I got you homie.
I know I hate when my feettouch mud, grass, dirt, whatever
(58:25):
, i don't know.
It's a problem with me.
That's so nice though I get it,but get outside.
I don't care if you wear shoes.
Get outside grounds yourself,be there, be in nature, be by
the fire, be in the woods.
Just be on your porch.
I don't care.
Get away from it all and leaveyour phone inside because we
(58:45):
have to get away.
If you don't get away from thetechnology especially for those
of us in cybersecurity it isnever gonna happen.
You are never going to trulyprevent burnout because you're
constantly going to be attached.
Detach yourself fromcybersecurity, detach yourself
from technology.
That is the only way.
Perseverance.
Guess what?
(59:05):
Give me a call, send me amessage.
I don't give a damn.
I will help you persevere.
We will figure it out and youwill make it.
But I'm also gonna tell you totake breaks.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Can I jump in and say one quick thing?
that really is not apropos, butI just realized that a lot of
people are gonna be mad if Idon't mention it.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Do it.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Nobody said anything about my hair.
That's what I mean.
They kept bobbing.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
You know I love your purple hair.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
Purple hair.
And I got the purple hair andnow nobody said anything.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Hey, you sent me the pictures.
I didn't think I needed to.
I knew you had the purple hair.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
I love the purple hair.
It'll be like this for a littlewhile.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
I love the purple hair.
That's my shit.
I told you to bring it back andyou brought it back.
Speaker 2 (59:48):
And I brought it back because you said it.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Amanda said it's purple.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
It's very purple.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
I love it, yes, i love it.
So, anyways, look, hey, thishas been an amazing episode of
Security.
Happier, as always.
Security wow, holy shit, that Ibutchered at Security happy
hour.
And, as always, i am here forall of you And I will be here
every week.
(01:00:17):
I've not missed very many weeks.
I may change the day, but Idon't miss a week, so I'll
always be here.
You can always reach out to meon any of my social media.
If you want to support the show, support any of my content to
include walk with me to thepodcast, this show or any of the
other videos I do.
Please check the descriptiondown below.
(01:00:39):
Guess what?
I don't care what platformyou're on, it is fucking there.
You can find it and you cansupport this show.
Otherwise, okay, y'all have agreat weekend.
Take care of yourselves.
Reach out to some familymembers.
I bet you they all love you andthey're missing you.
Take care and I'll catch youall next week.
而已大的まみ.
Welcome everybody.
It is me, it is the cyberwarrior, this is cyber warrior
studios, and I know you are allhere for another amazing episode
of security happy hour And, asalways, we always aim to deliver
.
We, you know it's the fun, theconversation, the beer, we're
all here for it.
So if you, i promise, if youjust hang around for like 10
(00:21):
seconds, we'll be right back Andwe're back again And actually
with that we got there.
It is the official startsecurity happy hour And we're
(00:43):
here with it And I have with memy guests.
At this time, when I wasHarvard, the one and only got it
right.
Please make sure you share thisstream.
Let people know we're here,we're live and we are in at the
win.
(01:03):
Today We were talking a veryimportant topic, that topic
being burnout and perseverance,and I know this is of the utmost
importance to quite a fewpeople right now.
But, seeing as how, when I wasthe one to propose the topic,
please let us know what is itsimportance to you and what are
you dealing with.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Okay, and it might sound, when I thought about this
, like the might sound a littleodd that, as new as I am to this
, I'm talking about burnoutalready, not necessarily that I
burnt out yet, And I say yetbecause I'm, you know, running
into a lot of people.
Everybody I know from you knowpeople who've done this for
(01:44):
decades to people who juststarted a couple months ago are
starting to feel like they'restarting to feel like one arm
paper hangers, they're doing toomuch and they're starting to
feel like they're having to pushthemselves past a point that is
really healthy.
No, no, a few people who are.
I mean, they had their handsfull because that's what they do
(02:06):
, That's their job.
So it's just.
This is one of those fieldsthat, more than any other one
that I've been in and more thanmost of them that I know about,
seems to it lends itself to youknow the possibility of, as I
say, wearing yourself down tothe nub very quickly And just
you know.
(02:26):
I thought it was important totalk about and figure out ways
to avoid that you know, to beable to do your job and to be
able to do everythingeffectively without you know
burning yourself out.
You know, completely,completely, just burn your fuse
down and just gone.
You know, in the perseverancepart that's, the flip side of
that coin is, yeah, you do haveto keep pushing at it, you do
(02:49):
have to keep going, you do haveto have that, never die, never
give up spirit.
But you also have to know whento, when to break, when to take
a break, when to calm down, toslow down a little bit, not quit
, but say you know what?
I'm already at 9.8.
And this is going to, this istaking me, this is going to take
me off the meter and let meslow down a little bit here.
(03:09):
So I probably have morequestions and answers on that.
Like I said, I'm kind of kind ofnew to this, but I just, you
know, kind of want to hear fromyour perspective what you do,
what you think is the best wayto go about that, from other
people.
You know everybody in the, inthe chat.
You know what they have to sayabout what they do keep from
(03:30):
burning out if they never burnout.
I know a couple people I don'tunderstand.
I don't understand how theydon't.
I know a few people is likeOkay, I'm writing three books
and then I'm teaching a class.
Then I'm doing this over here,I'm also doing, you know,
handstands and wind sprints AndI'm like, How are you doing that
?
How so?
but you know, those also aren'tpeople that say they say I
(03:51):
never burn out, and it's notpossible.
There are some people, like Isaid, they're like Oh no, I'm
fine, I'm always fine, That'snot like dangerous territory.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
It is very dangerous because it means they're not
taking a look at themselves andthey're probably neglecting a
lot of other things in our livesand constantly looking for that
next fix of education or cyberor something like that.
And, let's be honest, i feltburnout.
I did.
I literally wanted to quiteverything Because back a few
(04:19):
years ago I was when I firststarted this channel I was doing
five videos a week for five,something like that, plus I was
doing my full time job, plus Iwas a father, plus I'm a husband
, and on top of that I still gotyard work and things around the
house to do.
And then I was still furtheringmy education and doing research
(04:39):
and learning, and CTFs hack thebox, everything like that.
And so very quickly I thought Icould handle it, like I love
this shit, there's no way I canget burnout on something I love.
Like it's impossible, no, youcan't.
And so it got to the point Iwas.
I realized I was neglecting myfamily.
I was neglecting my job becauseI was getting to a point where
(05:02):
I was like I only want to do myjob.
No, and I would like be onsocial media or be doing this as
a way to kind of be like oh,i'm being creative, i'm doing
something, so I don't have toworry about it.
But the reality of it was Istarted pulling away from
everything I love doing And Irealized I got to stop, i got to
slow down, i got to figurethings out And for me it was
(05:24):
cutting back on the amount ofvideos I was doing.
As far as long form.
I got to cut back on, likebeing dedicated to things like
technical, as far as techTuesdays, like my content code,
because my job allows me to betechnical, my job allows me to
do a lot of different things,but as far as content goes,
(05:44):
that's not what I wanted to be.
So me it was more of a chore,and it still is more of a tour.
I'll do it on occasion, butit's more of a tour of me to do
technical content versus thisshow.
And I didn't walk with me andall the motivational stuff that
I do.
So you know, i had toreevaluate who I am, what I want
to do and what's important, andit took a lot of work and I
(06:06):
didn't realize I was burning outtill I was burnt out.
I recognized the signs And sofor me, i literally walk away.
I go, since I.
A big problem in this industry,and a lot of industries, is
you're given unlimited PTO oreven if you're giving PTO like
two, three weeks a year,whatever it would be, people
(06:29):
refuse to take it Like.
I got to be at work.
I got to be at work.
I got to be at work.
Things will fall apart if I'mnot there or I'll have a million
emails to answer when I getback.
And I tell all of my people ifyou go on PTO, i better not see
you sign in the team, i betternot see you sign in to work,
because PTO is for you.
(06:49):
That is who is for you.
Be with your family, be withyour friends, go through, step
away, work when you get back,don't worry about it.
We got you And that way you canrecover and rejuvenate.
That is how I see coming backand avoiding that.
(07:09):
The burnout is taking PTO Andif you haven't limited, take one
week before.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
What do you I'm not trying to flip this into me
interviewing you, but what doyou although I will what do you
think might be some reason, somecause that people just
absolutely cannot I won't saywill not, but absolutely cannot
make themselves not do anythingLike take PTO and actually be
(07:42):
you know the old part of the be,actually be off.
It's not part time on, my parttime, halfway there, it's.
Do not worry about this.
Right now, Reset, rejuvenate,regroup, and there's just a lot
of people and I saidparticularly a lot of people
that I've run across in thisfield.
They just like can't do it,cannot, just can't.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It's not, it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We all make choices in life.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
We choose how we want to live our lives, and I talk
about it.
a lot is the way you feel withway you deal with things is all
a choice.
So for me, what I started doingis, if I take PTO, i cut off
notifications on my phone.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
If.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I don't completely remove an application altogether
.
When I take PTO, i'm there forfamily.
That's the important thing.
Now I may still do content, imay do shorts or something like
that, but it's separate fromwork.
But again, that's because Ihave found a way to separate my
content from the cybersecurityside.
I am now more motivational,more inspirational, do things
(08:40):
more about you know, kind ofthat route, with the exception
of security happy hours, so Ican still do my content and not
feel overwhelmed or get burnedout by it.
But when I cut myself off fromcybersecurity and tech, a lot of
times I disable notificationsand I'm done.
I'll go work in a yard, i'll gocamping, i'll go somewhere
where there's no cell service.
(09:01):
He's like guess what?
Then you don't have an optionGo where there's no cell service
and you ain't got a choice.
I need to get my.
Oh, oh, no, no.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's something that I've just gotten, kind of
gotten not new to, but, you know, reallowing myself to do that,
like I said, i've got this newjob that I work every day.
but I work, you know, most daysand it's usually in the evening
, so I wasn't realizing howtired I was getting.
(09:33):
Like I'd be the end of a classand I'd just be like, oh my God,
what just happened, because itis teaching is a little tiring.
Cyber security is thoughtintensive.
So I'm like why is this goingon?
Turned off my phone today,didn't answer any messages till
about six o'clock.
I feel like a brand new woman.
but it took a second of beinglike no, i don't have to keep
(09:54):
hopping up to see if this emailis sent.
No, i don't have to read aboutthis particular thing today,
it'll still be there tomorrow.
And, just like I said, tryingto switch off, switch off.
that got to be always onmentality, that I guess it.
and it's really easy to get,get swept up into it, because
(10:16):
when you see everybody aroundyou doing all this stuff all the
time, it's like if I don't doall the stuff, all the things
all the time, i'm not going tobe able to keep up.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So one of our good friends posts about burnout and
mental health and taking a break, and he just did so.
Today I saw that J J Davy,straight up, pointed out.
And so here's the thing youwill realize, those that have
actually lived that life andgotten burnout and know it's
(10:47):
possible and have been dealtwith imposter syndrome and have
dealt with everything else arestarting to come out the
woodwork and tell you that youneed to take a break.
And one of the things that I'ma man is coming up here in a
second because, right in linewith hers, one of the things it
took When I was in the military.
If I took leave, i was stillworking.
(11:08):
I was still making phone calls.
I was still doing things.
I was still working 24, seven.
It did not stop Whether I wason leave on duty, if it was a
four day weekend, if it was justat night, i was always working.
I did it all the time.
And then when I retired, it wasthe same way.
I was always working.
I was like I am available,let's talk, let's work, let's do
(11:29):
this, this, this and this.
It wasn't until 2020.
Near the end of 2020.
We actually, probably about midyear, we went to Tennessee.
That was the first time ever inmy life and career.
I cut everything off and said Iam only going to be there with
my family.
It was the most refreshingthing I had ever done.
(11:51):
And so, from then on, what Ihad started doing and I'm going
to put this up is settingboundaries Where, after a
certain time so let's just sayeight to five is your schedule
time to work, which we all knowin this field.
You can work late, you can workearly, there's a bunch of
different things, but let's justsay you have to be there eight
(12:12):
to five.
Fine, if I got to be sitting atmy computer from eight to five,
then at five o'clock, i'm done.
You can't talk to me, i'm out.
I'm not even gonna look at thecomputer.
I might have my notificationson, just in case something
serious happens, because that'sthe type of person I am.
But if it's just, hey, can weget this done?
Yeah, tomorrow when I show backup, or actually, in this case,
(12:35):
tuesday when I'm back at work,sure.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, I'll do it.
Don't let it be a long weekendand you want to throw something
at me at 455 on a Friday?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
precisely So.
That is one of those thingsthat you have to set those
boundaries And and Amanda saysit right here Not in the
industry yet, but generalburnout tactic I have is setting
boundaries not only with othersbut most importantly with
myself, and that is vital youhave to.
When I walk, you know this,especially in the Dealing with
(13:07):
spirituality and things likethat, you have to have that
introspective look at yourselfand know who you are inside And
know when to just be like youknow what I gotta stop.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I'm cuz.
Otherwise, if you're lookingfor, if you're looking for all
of it From outside of you, thenyou're never, you're never gonna
be full.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
No.
I'm gonna be looking, and soyou've got to be able to sit
back, take that look and likeyou know what?
something's not right,something here is not right.
I got a step away.
And that's where yourmeditation, your nature walks,
your, your Calisthenics you'reworking out, whatever the case
may be.
That's where all that comesinto play, because then You can,
(13:46):
however, you meditate, whichisn't just sitting cross-legged
and meditating, no, no, no.
However, you focus That'sthat's what you need to do and
really figure out who you are,what's going on, and re-center
yourself.
Once you're re-centered, onceyou have that balance again,
then okay, then we can go backto figure out.
What do I need to do to movefurther, to do more things, and
(14:10):
And that would be how that worksout, but so many people are
afraid to do that.
They're afraid to look inside.
Everything is about the outside.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's very true, that's very true.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Let's see another one from Amanda.
When I started a business, imade myself get a separate phone
and nothing business relatedwas on my phone.
When I was done working ortaking a day off, i turned that
phone off and leave it at home.
Oh, that's a good one, it's areally good one.
Yeah, i don't have a work phone.
I keep saying I might get one,just so I don't have random
(14:43):
people calling my phone.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
But I haven't done it like my company.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I work for stratus scale.
They'll pay for my now, but Ijust I'm like Work in a hassle
and like wait for it, and then Ihave two phones.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, it's, i don't know, exciting.
It's.
It's kind of There was no fineline, things like you know.
Like I said earlier,perseverance being in, and the
flip side of burnout andperseverance is I was going
somewhere with this.
I was going going somewherewith this.
What did you just say aboutbeing accessible but Not being
(15:20):
too accessible?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, like it So.
So here's the way, and this isI'm interviewing people now for
a senior role and and one of thethings I tell people is You
know, i don't necessarily keephours, right, i'm lucky to have
a senior role, right, i'm notgonna sit here and expect you to
be there eight to five, nine tofive, whatever the case may be.
Expect your work to get done.
Your work It's done, great.
However, because of that, andbecause I'm not looking for you
(15:44):
to put in nine, ten, eleven,twelve hours a day, if I need
you late at night becausesomething came up with a client,
i am expecting to be able toget a hold of you because I'm
giving you your time to dowhatever.
So, if you need a lunch breakfor two, three hours because
you've got an appointment andyou got all these other things
to do and you got Familyactivities and everything like
(16:05):
that, great, go do it.
You need to go pick your kidsup and go hang out with them
Great, go do it.
You, you've got you know hockeyand all this other stuff with
your family, great, go do it.
But at the same time, if I gota client that gets breached and
I call you at ten o'clock atnight because I need you to come
in and do some.
I already do some other workfor me.
(16:26):
I don't want to hear, oh, ican't be there, i, oh, i'm just
waking up or done it.
No, no, no, get your coffee.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
There's a trade-off there for that kind of yeah.
And that's something that is notas it's another another kind of
difference in in this fieldfrom any One that I've been in
before.
It was, you know, her officesthat I worked at.
If your lunch break was from 12o'clock to 1 o'clock and you
came strolling in there at 101,you were gonna get caught on the
(16:56):
carpet and it was gonna just bea big ugly mess And I'm just
like, okay, over one minute thatI probably at some point in
time have worked through lunch.
You know, and it's all like Isaid, you know, burnt myself
down to the nub for You know,for you to be, you know at me
about this one minute.
That is one of those things thatseems kind of cool.
(17:17):
There is kind of cool aboutcybersecurity is, if you know in
the right office, in the rightorganization, sure, you might,
they might expect you, you knowto be, you know ready for you
know ready for action at 11o'clock at night Sometimes.
But if you have a doctor'sappointment that runs 30 minutes
over, you're not gonna hearabout that for the next three
(17:38):
months and why you're not,you're responsible, and why you
know this, you're not gonna dealwith that and what you'll find
in a lot of these good companiesAnd I do got a question here
from a Sarnay are, or infiniteand probability AI.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
But what you'll find in a lot of these companies that
are now Understanding moreabout the industry and more
about the field and you have alot of these younger managers
coming up is that look as longas you're at your meetings,
right.
So if you, especially forclient facing, if you attend
your client meetings and clientwork is getting done, i Don't,
i'm not logging your time.
(18:14):
I'm not sitting here looking atwhether or not you're logged in
nine hours a day or ten hours aday.
So it's about as long as thework is getting done and the
company's making money, what doI care?
I don't care what you do withyour day.
But again, that comes down to a.
We don't work in an office,we're all remote and be.
If I call you at 11 o'clock atnight or one o'clock in the
(18:36):
morning or you know whatever,especially if you're on call
because we're working on on oncall schedules and you don't
answer, we got bigger issues onme because now I'm giving you
freedom and then you're notthere when I need you.
Great and that's and that's thebig thing.
But I do have a good questionhere, and when I was Well, this
(18:59):
one might be good for you toanswer.
Even though I might answer Iwill, I will answer it as well.
One of the first steps indealing with burnout is
recognizing the signs.
What do you consider to be thesigns of burning out?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I Was safe.
For me personally, myconcentration isn't quite the
same.
You know, other parts of mylife seem to.
Everything just seems a littlebit a skew.
It's like working quite rightand I'm getting in arguments
with everybody in my family.
I personally get stress,headaches And like, like you
(19:34):
know, like you were saying, it'ssometimes it's hard to know the
signs going into it before youuntil you're into it.
No, it's important to know foryou individually, before you
wind up.
Just, you know, weight in thedepths of you know, screw it all
, burn out.
I'm not doing any of this atall.
See y'all later by, as it is avery you know it's very
(19:55):
individual thing.
But you know for, for, not youknow, as far as your job, you
know not Not feeling like youcare as much about what you care
about what you're doing, butyou're just you're, you're not
as sharp and it's just a wholecombination of things.
It's a very, no, veryindividual, but those are kind
of the.
(20:15):
The big three for me is I cantell you know, i start getting a
headache and one eye.
That means okay, you need toslow down.
I'm real crabby and justsnarking at everybody and I'm
not.
My focus is just, no matter howmuch I try to concentrate, it's
just not.
Things are just bouncing off mybrain.
They're not getting in there,they're just kind of sliding off
(20:36):
.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, you get that ADHD like to an extreme where
it's like nothing's ever nothingis You know you're all over the
place all the time.
Yes, so, like my thing is, i Didnot realize Burnout symptoms
until it was too late, because Ihad never felt it before, or at
least I did.
Maybe I had and not realize itright.
(20:58):
It's one of those things whereI just didn't really click for
me, but I for me it's definitelywhen you know long, when you
start to realize you don't enjoywhat you're doing anymore.
Now, by that time it might be alittle too late.
But that was the biggest thingfor me is I no longer enjoyed
Hacking.
I no longer into well,offensive security.
(21:19):
I no longer enjoyed.
You know, my job is a wholeContent.
As much as I love helpingpeople.
I felt like I was kind of justthere, like I was just, you know
, phoning it in and not reallyme.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
You're not your heart .
Your heart in your, your hands,barely in it.
In your heart's definitely not.
And you're just telling me Whatam I doing this for?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, there was there was so much, and then, on top
of that, i was depressed.
I was extremely depressed.
I was taking it out on myfamily.
I was yelling at my kids when Ishouldn't been, for like the
dumbest shit, like there was noreason for me to be doing it.
And I was, and You know, me andmy wife, we were just having
issues because I was not beingthe husband I should have been,
(22:01):
and so There was a lot that wentinto it.
But it wasn't until I cut thingsoff that I realized, oh shit, i
burn out right like I wasburning the candle at both ends
and probably even a third end inthe middle somewhere.
Like I, literally this thingwas burning hot and burning
quick And I didn't realize itand you think you're.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You think you're fine because, well, some people
don't think they're fine, butyou think you're fine because
you're busy.
It's like, okay, i can't becompletely just tapped out
because, look how much stuff I'mgetting done.
It's like, well, that's kind ofthe burn part of the burnout.
That's that's, you know, theand it's it's knowing, you know,
knowing the difference betweenwhat, for you, is, you know,
(22:45):
some people, some people, justyou know, can get closer, look
closer, to ribbon in the red andthat's there, that's how they,
that's how they operate Andthey're able to do that.
Some people cannot even getright here without being like,
okay, you know what.
This is affecting everythingand I only got, you know, a
(23:05):
little bit fine, finite amountof energy that is quickly
getting sapped.
I need to do something like.
I don't know who said it.
Somebody in chat said somethinglike, something like the
further you, the longer it takesyou to realize, to get at it,
the longer it's gonna take youto get back.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's, that's Griffin, and yeah, it's right
here The longer you wait, thelonger recovery takes, and and
it's so true.
But Amanda put it right here Irealize I'm getting there when I
start to not enjoy what I'mdoing.
If somebody in cybersecurity,somebody like myself, who has
always enjoyed breaking intoshit, always I could sit there
(23:47):
on hack the box and literally upuntil I went for my Gram and
OSCP, i had cleared out everyhack the box machine except for
the two hardest ones.
Every single one was gone.
And After I got done with grim,then I did my OSCP, plus I was
working full-time In a positionof pen testing.
I was just not.
(24:08):
I was spent.
Plus all of my my content,everything else I was doing, i
Was spent.
I was like I can't do thisanymore.
And then, as you get into a roleof a pen tester and then you
realize, well, it's a lot ofpaperwork and then, well, we
didn't have a ton of clientscoming in at the time for the
old company I worked for, so Iwas doing a lot of presale shit.
I wasn't necessarily doing pentesting, but then I was like
(24:30):
learning pen testing, it wasjust, it was a whole head.
I was like I'm done, i quit.
And so that was the year,because that was 2020.
That was the year when I tookvacation.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
It was the first time I realized Clearing my phone,
killing notifications, killingeverything was the best thing I
could do because 2020 was thatyear for a whole lot of people
because we had to scream, sosome of it some of it would be
had to scream to a Hall.
So I think a lot of peoplerealized then that they were
Have been pushing themselves toa point that really wasn't
healthy.
(25:02):
Yes, because we had the sensedeal.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, not just that, but when you, i've been working
remote since 2018.
Right.
So before the pandemic, beforeall that bull should happen, i
was working remotely.
I have not been to an office towork Since that time.
So you're looking at five yearsnow that I've been remote and
not step foot in an office foras a working environment.
(25:28):
The last company I worked forwas we got together for like a
gathering.
They did some marketing shit,we took some headshots and did
some other stuff, but it wasn'tnecessarily for work.
That was the only time I'd goneto that office, besides to pick
up my equipment and a drop offactually, no, i didn't drop off
my equipment, i think I'd mailedit back, so to pick up my
equipment, and so I've not seenoffices.
(25:49):
So, for me, what I do,especially in this field, if you
can avoid being in an officeand working remote and
personally, i will not work atan odd, at a job that requires
me to go to the office at all.
If, if Showing up to an officeis required, i won't take the
job, i'll be up.
No, i'm done, and the reasonfor that is for two reasons.
(26:11):
One, working from home, i getmore work done than I'll ever
get done in an office, becausein an office I'm a walk around,
i'm a bullshit with people, i'ma talk.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You be talking, you'll be outside smoking, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
First off out of the army.
I got yelled at for how much Ismoke.
First up out of the armybecause I was a Manager, slash,
consultant, slash, it was awhole thing and I got paid shit.
I got paid like 60 grand a yearand I'm like you're paying me
this much money to betechnically a manager every hour
.
I was outside smoking andPeople were bitching because
(26:45):
they looked through the windowsee me out at the smoke pit and
then they start complaining likeoh.
He's out there all the time I'veworked this done.
Shut the hell up.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I went through that.
I haven't smoked cigarettes inprobably five years, but I would
get that all the time like,okay, i need to get up for a
second so I can reset my brainRight, so I can come back to
what I'm doing and have it makesense to me and to you.
She's out there smoking again.
You know what.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I did the best in the army the, the and this is what
people don't understand and Andthe reason I'm kind.
One of the reasons I'm kind oflike this is in the army.
That's where work got done wasat the smoke pit, because you'd
go out there you'd smoke, youtalk, you like, hey, i need x, y
and z.
Alright, cool, hey, can you doyou know a, b and c for me?
Yeah, i got you, no worries,and you go back in and get done,
(27:31):
as opposed through thebureaucracy and the red tape and
the paperwork and all the otherBS, smoked pits and bars or
where work is where people tendto What.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's, there's, you know, lot,
like you said less red tape,less All the formality that
people are trying to know.
I'm gonna make sure I do thisright, like, look, this is what
I need, yeah, this is what I cando for you, okay, well, can you
do this like this Absolutely,and it's not all the well.
I've got to send this form toso and so, and that form had
send that, the form to so and so, is that?
(28:08):
that can add to a lot of jobstress.
A lot of burnout too is havingto go through.
I Want to call them extra stepsbecause I'm not gonna say, you
know, for everybody's situation,you know everybody's office.
They might be very, very validreasons that they're doing it
the way that they're doing it,but it just never seems to be as
(28:29):
as smooth and as efficient asit could be Without all that
extra jump.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Oh for sure.
and now, misha, misha, i'm gladyou show up, man you know what.
I'm up in, they show up indroves.
I love it, but Misha got agreat question here, and So when
I walk, you are working at acollege, correct?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Sort of kind of no, actually, more than yes.
I am working for a company thatdoes All kinds of different
boot camps for over.
I'm the minus.
The one I'm doing iscybersecurity teaching and Is it
remote?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
It is remote, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, i'm nowhere near the college that I work at.
I've never even been to thisstate, so okay, so.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So then, all right.
I'm asking, because then thatmeans you're working remotely.
We can both answer thisquestion What do you do for
burnout when you don't have PTOand you don't have a place to
take a break from it all due towork at home jobs?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Somebody actually already Earlier, early up in
this, in this scroll, said whatI, what I always do I get in my
car and I drive and I listen toAmanda, amanda, yeah and I
scream and I sing and you knowif you see me going down the
street, you know, listen toQueen really loud and wave of
arms a lot.
(29:54):
Mind your business, that's whatI do.
I go out and take walks asanother thing that I do.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So me personally.
Now I get PTO.
The last three companies Iworked for had unlimited PTO.
I try to make it a point totake a week off every quarter,
but it doesn't always happen,because I'm one of those people
that if I have meetings I gothomie.
Don't be putting your hand infront of my camera, we'll be
fighting.
I hope you put, i'm sorry, myyoungest son.
(30:24):
I don't know if you saw it, myyoungest son.
I saw his hand or something.
His hand was like you knowright here, I saw it.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter, i'm a whoops, you're right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Ooh, ooh, you got, and you got five of those.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
He's my youngest, oh my goodness.
So so yeah.
So for me you know I go outsidea lot, i take my smoke breaks
and literally I will get up formy computer.
It could be 30 minutes after Ihad a cigarette, it could be an
hour, it could be two hours,depends what I'm doing I don't
feel, because I'm remote, idon't feel the need to like put
(31:05):
a limit on it, like if I'mstressed and I'm just dealing
with a ton of stuff, i'll get upevery 15, 20 minutes, every
five, six, seven minutes If mybrain keeps getting into a knot,
which that's indicative ofsomething.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Usually, you know if I'm getting frustrated that
often.
But if I need to get up, andyou know, until it makes sense
or until that knot gets out ofmy brain, i'm not gonna set
myself the time like, okay, well, i'll work for an hour and then
I can take 30 minutes.
You know, if it's just not, ifit's a day where that's just not
working, if I can work for 10minutes and then take a 20
(31:38):
minute break, if that's one ofthe good things that need.
Things about working from home,you know.
I mean especially if you have,i know, some remote offices
doing now where I don't evenreally understand it, where you
have to be at your keyboard, thepeople always talking about
doing getting mouse jigglers andall this stuff, and I'm just
like, why are you even settingyourself up for that?
(32:00):
Why, even so that I don't knowanything about all that There
are?
Speaker 1 (32:04):
companies and I know this because and I'm not gonna
speak on who I know someone thatif it doesn't show them active
and logged into teams orwhatever they're using for time
or whatever nine hours a dayminus whatever your lunch break
is they get yelled at.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, and I just I don't understand how like I said
, i'm not a manager, but I don'tunderstand how you can have
people that work with you andfor you work efficiently like
that, because, no, i just Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
If anybody, anybody who grew up in office to work,
especially homie, quit trying toget in front of my camera,
especially in the, you know, anytype of like white collar.
I don't even know what you callcybersecurity, i don't know,
but it'd be like blue collar,white collar, it would be more
white collar, but I don't.
A soul.
(32:55):
No, no, no.
Sky blue maybe.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Sky blue collar With white Powder blue collar is it?
No, it's not a collar at all,it's a hoodie.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
There you go, all right.
So if you work in the hoodieindustry, you know, and even
it's been in for a whileunderstand that in an office
work doesn't get done becauseyou've constantly got people at
your door, you've constantly gotpeople coming to your office or
always in meetings there'salways something going on.
So the reality of it is theamount of work people think that
(33:25):
gets done in office doesn'tactually get done because you're
only working while it gets done.
But you're only working likefour hours a day.
You're actually workingprobably half of your day.
The other half to you knowthree quarters is spent talking,
smoking, bsing, whatever eating.
You name it social media, it iswhat it is Whereas at home you
(33:50):
will work past the work timejust because you're like.
You know what?
I realize I've been out likeall day.
I've had appointments.
I got shit that needs to getdone.
I'm just gonna get it done, andbecause you have not had you're
not driving.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
You can get in that zone.
You know you can get in thatzone.
You know everybody knows aboutgetting in the zone where you
kind of just flow and there'snobody coming to your door, not,
not, not.
Well, now, what can you do?
Oh, oh, oh, that's the worst.
It was like oh my.
God, I was doing it and youcame in and stuck your head in
the door.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
When I was in an office I didn't have that issue
because nobody I wasn't.
It was an office shared ofpeople who was.
It wasn't cubicles, it was justdifferent desks.
I'm gonna whoop your ass on me.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Oh, somebody's going to forget it when the show is
over, right?
So?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
it's just one of those things.
So, Misha, to be completelyhonest, to kind of follow up on
this question, you know if youdon't have PTO, you need to work
for a new company, And I knowwhere you're at, Misha.
So if the company you arecurrently with doing
pharmaceutical shit, you need tofind a new one until you can
(35:00):
get into cybersecurity, becauseyou should have PTO.
And when you take PTO you shuteverything off, You don't answer
shit, you don't answer calls.
You should have numbers of worknumbers stored in your phone so
that you know you can hit,ignore and say fuck you.
Like that's the point you needto get to is being able to say
(35:22):
fuck you, I'm not here.
Holy shit, Jack's ass.
I saw that.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
That was funny, he's smiling.
I was like, hey, jack's is inthe house.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I love it.
Jess Bishop's, here I feel blue.
James Giles or Giles.
I don't know how to pronouncehis last name.
Everybody's in the house.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Jay in here.
Jay Stollard, did I see you inhere?
Jeff, Jerry, jerry, jerry,jerry I don't know where Jerry
hold on.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I gotta find him.
Did I see him?
He is here, stollard is hereSpeak up.
Jerry Stollard there he is.
I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
He's like that too.
Nobody calls him Jerry, that'sit.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Jack is also here, in case you're wondering.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, hey, jack, saw you two.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The one who has been dealing with a lot of shit.
We're not gonna get into it.
That's his business, but he'sin the house again, so thank you
, jack, for showing up Amandastarring in AR Griffin, infosec
the Landsharks.
So that's my boy, williamBailey.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Andrea.
I just wanted to saycongratulations to Andrea
personally.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Oh, actually, yeah, So I don't know if she put it
out yet She did, but I didn'tcause I didn't see the post She
did.
All right, so she did.
You saw the post.
Yes, you see the post, allright, i did not see the post.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I did, I did.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
If I, if I, if I did, i did.
okay, i'm sitting here likedon't have me getting beat up.
I saw it.
You're right.
I know I think about it.
I saw it.
Look, it's been a hot minute,All right, it's been a long day.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I know it's fine, but I'm not trying to get beat up
before because of your ownmemory lapses.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
No, you won't, Because Andrea will come after
me and yell at me for notremembering.
So you're okay, But I doremember now.
And yes, for everybody outthere Andrea Myler has, who has
been a huge supporter of thisshow, especially since he's been
on and found us, one of my, oneof my warriors, someone I
promote a little time justrecently today, Pastor Security
(37:12):
Plus.
So kudos, Andrea, I love you.
Thank you for passing that, orelse I would have had to like
find you down in Atlanta orwherever the hell you're at
these days and whoop your assbecause, come on, girl, you you
know your shit.
Like had you failed that, meand you would have been fighting
, Just saying I'm the onlyperson.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
So so That's between y'all.
I'm not getting into thisAndrea.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I love Andrea.
She always yells at me like ifI say something, like if I, if I
ever like, have a bad day.
this is why I love her, becauseshe'll yell at you.
What the hell's your bad dayfor?
because I'm broke up on thewrong side of the bed.
Well, go back in your bed andfind the right side.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That's funny.
At all the times I've heardthat phrase about getting up on
the wrong side of the bed.
I'll think I've ever heardanybody give that answer.
Andrea, andrew's the onlyanswer.
It's like well, when you figureout where the right one is,
then come back and see me.
I love Andrea.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Andrea will always be my sister, one of our warriors.
Of course, within the family, ilove her to death.
But let's talk aboutperseverance a little bit,
because we are about 40 minutesin And that's another big thing
because we're going to finddifferent areas.
So burnout is one of thosethings.
Again, we talked aboutperseverance, a whole different
(38:39):
concept, and this is where Ithink my lovely one now.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I'm sorry I got distracted.
Somebody else passed the cizer,which really meant a lot to me.
Focus I'm focused.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Oh, it's not on AR.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Oh, it's not on AR.
Congratulations buddy, i'm sosorry.
That's my brother from the Army.
Let me focus over here.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
My brother from the Army.
It's OK, But perseverance whatdoes that mean to you And why is
that so important?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
That means to me, that means not giving up at the
times I really want to.
You know, to push past a badday or to push past I don't
understand this one thing To notbe like I don't get this, i'm
done.
You know, to give myself achance to get it.
You know to give myself achance to be good at something.
(39:36):
You know not when somethinggets difficult and just like
it's too hard And just quit,it's pushing myself past, not to
pass A limit, not pass you knowmy absolute limit where I'm not
past the burnout, but pushingmyself a little bit past
comfortable to be able toachieve a goal or All right hold
(40:01):
up Hold up, come here.
Hey Now here we go Let me go.
Oh, my goodness, Love it, loveit.
But yeah, just to push pastcomfortable a little bit, not
give up, but somewhere, like Isaid, that's still that fine
line where I'm not going to pushmyself into, you know, an
(40:25):
aneurysm, but I'm not going togive up.
I'm not going to give upbecause I stub my toe.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, and that's one of those things, right.
So when I think of perseverance, i think about picking yourself
up, being willing to fall downover and over again.
Now, yes, there's going to getto a point where it becomes too
much.
There's going to it's going toget to a point where maybe
eventually you realize it's justnot possible, like there are.
(40:52):
there are going to be obstaclesin our life.
There are going to be thingsthat happen that are just
absolutely impossible toovercome.
And I don't I don't say thatlightly, because I am one of
those people, of course, as youknow that says you can push past
anything with help, with, byyourself, as long as you have
the willpower to do it.
But there are just certainconcepts, certain things,
(41:14):
certain areas of life.
For instance, i could never bea nurse or doctor, and it has
nothing to do with not beingable to learn it.
It's because, from the time mywife got an epidural, i can't
handle the sight of blood, justthat Why, i don't know, it's a
good thing, but it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
So you have to know your limit.
I don't have limitations, butnot limitations.
What's the word?
I'm looking for Your parameters, something like limitations,
Because that doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
You have to know your barriers, thank you, and I mean
true barriers, not the glassceiling, because that glass
ceiling is garbage and that issomething you put on yourself.
I'm talking barriers like brickwall with freaking defenses and
everything else Yeah, that typeof shit.
So I could never do somethinglike that.
(42:05):
But there are things in lifethat you self impose barriers
And that is where perseverancecomes in, because that is when
you can sit there.
You fell down, maybe you didn'tpass the test.
Guess what?
I'm going to get my ass back up, i'm going to learn it and I'm
going to go back.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
And I'm definitely going to pass it that time.
Yeah, that's perseverance.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Maybe you didn't get a job, or 100 jobs or 1,000 jobs
.
But here's the thing If itmeans enough to you and if you
really believe in yourself andyou really believe, I ain't
going to say you believe inyourself because, let's be
honest, if there are about 100,200, 300 failed jobs, job
interviews or whatever the casemay be, you may be lacking that
belief in yourself, But itdoesn't mean you can't do it.
(42:49):
You persevere, you overcome andyou keep going at it, Because
that field itself, thatknowledge you have, is important
.
So you have to be able toovercome.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I applied for and within six months, I want to say
I put out about 250 jobapplications before I got my job
.
So it got real depressing there.
For a minute It was like, OK,this is never going to happen.
Never is a very long time, Andit was definitely not ever going
to happen if I just quit.
(43:22):
So that was kind of what keptme going, is if I stopped doing
this altogether and I gotnothing out of it as just
something else that I'm going tohave to tell myself, well, you
didn't do this, You didn'tcomplete this, And then I'd be
mad at myself because it'ssomething I know I can do.
I just didn't keep at it.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
And that's one of the things.
So me and Amanda talkedyesterday.
One of the things we talkedabout was just the obstacles we
face, the things we go throughand the way we deal with
situations, the way we deal withpeople.
And for me, the way I look atall these things is no matter
(44:03):
what happens in life, you canovercome it, you can deal with
it.
You just have to have the rightmindset.
Now, for some it's faith andspirituality, for some it's just
belief in self.
For some there's all theseother different reasons people
can do it.
(44:25):
Some people just give up onthemselves because they don't
have the support system behindthem to say they can actually
handle it They can do that, youcan overcome that, and I'll be
the first one to tell you Amanda, who I've been talking to for a
while because she's good people, and I'm getting her into
cybersecurity past her firstweek of Google, you know,
(44:46):
cybersecurity boot camp.
Hurrah, amanda, love you girl.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
So that's a huge deal because that first week if you
can get through that first.
some people get scared off inthe first week and they're like
I cannot do this, so don't poopoo the first week.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Well, there's always, there's also a stipulation
between me and her of hergetting through that And it's a
bet Well, not really a bet, butit is.
It's not me and her going onwhere I was like look, you do
this, i got you, but if shequits, say no more.
You out girl, you lost, andit's nothing serious, it's just
(45:34):
a situation.
I know some of the situationsshe's in.
I'm just like I got you, I'lltake care of you.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Could have bought her a jumbo jet.
That's not my business, that'sy'all.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Doesn't matter what it is, she's taken care of.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
As long as she keeps at it, she quits doing it.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
That's when And that's it.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
We got issues.
That seems I do have a questionhere from Jax, and I'm going to
let you handle this one Can youhave perseverance without being
resilient?
Or are they the same, or dothey work synergistically
together?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Y'all going to make me think today.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Oh, you've got to think And I'm going to let you
think because you're going solo.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Oh yeah, ok, Nothing but my face in the screen.
Can you have perseverancewithout being resilient?
I'm going to answer this inparts.
You can, i think, but that'swhen you start running into
possible burnout If you keep atsomething and you keep at
something and you keep atsomething but you're just
(46:33):
wearing yourself down, you'renot building yourself back up or
you're not Teflon tough on theoutside.
That's not going to be good.
I don't think they're the same.
I don't know how to explain.
They're not one.
One is to me more of an actionthan the other one.
It's kind of more of a state ofbeing.
Ideally ideal situation whenyou get most success is when you
(46:57):
persevere and you're resilient.
Hope that made sense.
Like I said, if I've got areally soft head, this is a very
resilient example.
If I've got a really soft headand I want to keep beating my
head into a wall, that's notgoing to end well.
As if I have a really thickhead and I'm doing this, ok yeah
(47:18):
, i'm persevering at it, but myhead's not resilient, so I'm
going to wind up with a big dentin my forehead.
So was that not a perfectexample?
Was that not just that big anexample?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
But that's my opinion , that's my thought.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So the way I see it is like this, and Jax is going
to completely understand where Icome from, because it's from a
military background Where thatclass comes from.
Resiliency and perseverance aretwo completely different things
.
They can work together, butidealistically they're different
.
You see, perseverance is goingto give you that ability to keep
going.
Resilience is going to give youthe ability to continuously
(47:55):
pick yourself up in the righthead space So you could be
persevered and you can keepgoing.
But eventually it's going towear on you.
If you're not resilient, ifyou're not able to reevaluate,
if you're not able to meditate,if you're not able to take
yourself out of this situation,take the time to rebuild,
(48:18):
recharge, regain yourself.
Then I don't care how much youpersevere, eventually you're
just going to give up.
You're not going to keep doingit because you're not resilient
enough to deal with the failure.
Two completely different things.
Perseverance allows you to keepgoing, but eventually you're
going to get beat down.
Resilience allows you to buildyourself back up every single
(48:39):
time you fall.
Are they synergistic?
I would say yes.
I think you need both.
You need resilience andperseverance.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Oh man, sometimes you need to reset to keep going.
And yes, jacks did say love it.
Yes, it makes sense.
This is to you.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I believe you need to work together.
When I started going off intothat soft head analogy, I was
like, oh Lord, here I go, Allright.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Oh man.
But yeah, perseverance is oneof those things that I think a
lot of people lack.
Well, no, let me correct that.
It's the resilience they lackBecause, after so much failure,
they feel like they just can'tdo it, and it's because they
have not practiced anything totruly make them resilient.
They've not looked atthemselves, they've not
(49:32):
reevaluated their situation,they've not tried to change the
way they do things, they've notset goals, they've not really
done things properly.
I think that the resiliencyfactor, and especially how we're
trained in the army and in themilitary in general, i believe
has all the same courses.
I think that resiliency factoris what's missing.
(49:54):
You could persevere, you cancontinue to push and push and
push every time you get knockeddown, but I equate it to
insanity When you try the samething over and over and over
again and you know it's notgoing to work.
That's the definition ofinsanity You're not changing
anything, you're just going tocompletely.
You know you're just going todo the same thing and not change
(50:14):
anything, whereas resiliencyallows you to reevaluate
yourself and reevaluate thesituation and really figure out
how to change things.
So I think resiliency is a bigpart of it, but anyways, because
I think, oh, wait, hold on.
I was about to say I broughtout a question.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, no, I saw a good one in there.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Ben Franklin says persistence conquers all things,
but sometimes it's not worththe effort.
Have you ever conquered throughpersistence, only to realize it
was not worth the cost?
slash benefits.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I'm not inviting y'all next time Making me use my
brain and mind.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
So the reality of it is has there ever been anything
you've done in your life thattook you a while to do, took a
lot of failure?
maybe not a lot, but you'vefailed, you've failed whatever.
You got back up, kept winning,and then you realized this shit
sucks.
I should have done it in thefirst place.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Not really.
I mean, i'm not going to saythere's been things that I
thought was going to be sunshineand lollipops and it wasn't as
much sunshine or as manylollipops as I thought, but just
for me, just the act of justthe process of sticking with
(51:42):
something and knowing that I cando it brought a lot of value to
it for me.
I mean, i can't think ofanything that I've done that was
really difficult and I got itin and was like, well, this is
just stupid.
Nothing off the top of my head.
I'll keep thinking on that one,but I can't really think of
something.
That's just been like super,duper hard And then I finally
(52:04):
got, you know, you got an endgame and I was like this was
pointless.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
My experience Having five boys.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
No, no, not allowed to make all that.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Try for a girl.
got five boys.
That's the problem.
My wife said, yeah, marriage Igot some rough, rough room.
(52:44):
This is one of those things.
So here's the thing And this issomething you know, you know
about me.
Everybody here should knowabout me by now.
It's yes, i will take somethingthat should be a serious topic
burnout, perseverance, you nameit How I did it today on my
LinkedIn post when I gave myweekend safety brief.
You know, i will take a serioustopic and make light of things
(53:06):
solely because one I'm a veteranand that's how we get through
situations.
Dark humor is our shit.
That's that's how we surviveall the bullshit to, because I
honestly do think it's hilarious.
So you can give me a deep topicand I'm still going to make
light of the situation.
Like me, love me, hate me, idon't give a damn.
That's just the way I am.
(53:28):
Yeah, marriage is definitelyone of those things you got to
overcome.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
I can't say that Well , I'm not married anymore, So I
don't really you know, but Ithat.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
I'm not married.
My wife look at it and we askeach other every day Why did I
marry you?
I don't fucking know, wow.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
But there's all the jokes, but those things.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
You look at each other and you go there's a grain
of truth in it.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
You're weird.
Why did?
Speaker 1 (54:03):
I marry you.
I don't fucking know, why didyou know?
Speaker 2 (54:08):
It's a great idea at the time.
I'm not sure what happened.
It's all love.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
It is.
If you can talk shit on eachother, do you really love?
you, you're with the wrongperson.
Let's see Where is itEstablished?
dominance Angie knows what it'sall about.
So you don't know.
The weekend safety brief isthis Do not add to the
(54:35):
population, Do not subtract fromthe population, Do not end up
in the hospital, newspaper orjail.
If you do end up in jail,establish dominance quickly.
And I'm going to add anotherline to that If you cannot
establish dominance, please goup to the biggest person in your
cell, grab their pocket and youare now their bitch.
They will take care of you.
So you don't know thedifference.
It's all over the place.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
Now We can safely brief.
We added the new line We'regood to go.
That's a tactic.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Definitely a tactic.
Look, this is all in fun.
Here's the thing.
It's very funny.
We're at almost the top of thehour, which of course means you
know you're going to be givenyour words of wisdom, your
little lesson but of advice,your information to the
community, information to thecommunity.
Before we do that, I wanna sayone thing.
Those who know me know I'm aveteran.
(55:28):
Those who've been watching fora while knows I've been around
for a little while.
So please do me a favor do notgo up to any veteran, any active
duty service member, and tellthem happy Memorial Day and
thank you for your service.
That is not what it's about.
It is about those who havefallen, Those who did not make
it home, those who maybe made ithome but are no longer with us
(55:49):
because of other reasons.
So, for this Memorial Dayweekend and because of the
issues at hand, talk to any ofyour veteran brothers and
sisters that you know, check inon them, make sure they're okay.
I got lucky.
I have not lost anyone overseas, but there is a lot of people
out there that have.
So before you say happyMemorial Day, please make sure
(56:11):
mentally they're okay andthey're not dealing with the
loss of those that came beforeand dealing with survivor's
guilt.
So that is my spiel on MemorialDay weekend.
It is for those we lost, notthose that are here.
Other than that, please give ussome words of burnout,
perseverance and any otheradvice.
You know the drill for thosetrying to enter the field and
(56:35):
those that may already be in.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
Okay, don't give up.
I know that sounds very cookiecutter.
And when you get to the pointwhere you just you don't think
you can like, you don't know howto ask questions, don't let
that stop you.
But listen to yourself, listento your body, listen to your
(57:02):
mind, your mental health, andpay attention to that.
Don't feel like you have togrind yourself down to a paste
to be successful in this field.
You know like, if everybodytakes breaks from you know way
up here to somebody who startedlast month you know you have to
take care of yourself.
You have to put mask on yourown face first or you're not
(57:23):
gonna be any good to yourself,your company, anybody else.
Know yourself first and knowthat you can do this.
Whatever this is, you fill inthe blank with your this.
Whatever this is, this might besomething else.
This be good to yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Definitely, Definitely, And that's one of
the things I wanna add on to youknow, with burnout and
perseverance there's two verydifferent things is when you
persevere too much, you doeventually burn out, especially
if you don't have resilience,especially if you're not ever
taking time out for yourself.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
You wanna know how to prevent burnout.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
I'm gonna tell you right now cut yourself off from
technology.
Every week At a certain pointin time in the week, cut the
technology out, live your life,get out in nature.
I understand it's hard forpeople.
You don't want your feet totouch grass.
I got you homie.
I know I hate when my feettouch mud, grass, dirt, whatever
(58:25):
, i don't know.
It's a problem with me.
That's so nice though I get it,but get outside.
I don't care if you wear shoes.
Get outside grounds yourself,be there, be in nature, be by
the fire, be in the woods.
Just be on your porch.
I don't care.
Get away from it all and leaveyour phone inside because we
(58:45):
have to get away.
If you don't get away from thetechnology especially for those
of us in cybersecurity it isnever gonna happen.
You are never going to trulyprevent burnout because you're
constantly going to be attached.
Detach yourself fromcybersecurity, detach yourself
from technology.
That is the only way.
Perseverance.
Guess what?
(59:05):
Give me a call, send me amessage.
I don't give a damn.
I will help you persevere.
We will figure it out and youwill make it.
But I'm also gonna tell you totake breaks.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Can I jump in and say one quick thing?
that really is not apropos, butI just realized that a lot of
people are gonna be mad if Idon't mention it.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Do it.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Nobody said anything about my hair.
That's what I mean.
They kept bobbing.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
You know I love your purple hair.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
Purple hair.
And I got the purple hair andnow nobody said anything.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Hey, you sent me the pictures.
I didn't think I needed to.
I knew you had the purple hair.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
I love the purple hair.
It'll be like this for a littlewhile.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
I love the purple hair.
That's my shit.
I told you to bring it back andyou brought it back.
Speaker 2 (59:48):
And I brought it back because you said it.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Amanda said it's purple.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
It's very purple.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
I love it, yes, i love it.
So, anyways, look, hey, thishas been an amazing episode of
Security.
Happier, as always.
Security wow, holy shit, that Ibutchered at Security happy
hour.
And, as always, i am here forall of you And I will be here
every week.
(01:00:17):
I've not missed very many weeks.
I may change the day, but Idon't miss a week, so I'll
always be here.
You can always reach out to meon any of my social media.
If you want to support the show, support any of my content to
include walk with me to thepodcast, this show or any of the
other videos I do.
Please check the descriptiondown below.
(01:00:39):
Guess what?
I don't care what platformyou're on, it is fucking there.
You can find it and you cansupport this show.
Otherwise, okay, y'all have agreat weekend.
Take care of yourselves.
Reach out to some familymembers.
I bet you they all love you andthey're missing you.
Take care and I'll catch youall next week.
而已大的まみ.
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