Pension Precision: Navigating Crucial Choices

Maleeah and CJ talk about options for those rare few who still have pensions and how those options might change in the future, even if you have a pension now.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Oh yes, it is money inmotion with Coss Financial right here on thirteen
ten WIBA our phone lines they areopen for you right now. If you
have questions for our retirement planning professionalsfrom Class Financial, CJ. Closs and
Elia Quavis, I gotta just pickup a phone gifts call six oh eight
three two one thirteen ten. That'ssix soh eight three two one thirteen ten

(00:20):
will get you on the air.Dofgate. You can learn more about Coss
Financial their website Coss Financial dot com. That's k l aa S financial dot
com. Not only can you learnmore about Coss Financial or separate divisions,
you can also get to know theteam the folks at Coss Financial. You
can learn also a little bit aboutabout some of the folks that they work
with. Kind of break down bythe numbers and a cool thing. If

(00:41):
you scroll down towards the bottom,you see an envelope it says State Current.
That's where you can subscribe to theweekly Market Pulse newsletter that available to
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That Market Pulse newsletter has got alittle snapshot of what's been going on
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to you at Coss Financial. Speakingof things available to you, also that

(01:03):
phone number six oh eight four fourtwo five six three seven. No charge
for the financial get to know yourappointment tech c Loss Financial. It will
be complimentary to you. Again thenumber six oh eight four four two five
six three seven and then number toget on the air this morning six oh
eight three two one thirteen ten.That's three two one thirteen ten as mentioned,
joined by CJ Closs and Malia Quavis. CJ. How are you doing

(01:23):
this week? I'm doing great.How are you, Sean? I'm doing
really good. Great to talk withyou. Malia, how are you doing?
Staying dry? Very very good?And yes, it's like every other
minute. It's a different type ofseason here, isn't it It is?
It looks like some beautiful days ahead. You got plans from others day,
I know, but I'm sure mykids will find a way to reach out
to me because they're they're great kids, so they always figure it out.

(01:46):
Well, you enjoy the day,and we've got a great We're gonna talk
about some pensions. Those are thoseare a thing? Uh well, not
for you, not for you.We're going to talk about for folks who
do receive pensions in and some ofthe things to understand about, some choices
and some very important decisions to bemade with our retirement planning professionals, Malia

(02:07):
Quavis andj Loss of Class Financially.You know, we have way too much
fun on this show. As mentioned, the phone lines are open six eight
three to two one thirteen ten.That's six o'h eight three to two one
thirteen ten. It's being fun thingswe do on the program. Every week,
the Class Quiz question week a chanceto win a fantastic prize. This
week, no exception, our friendsfrom Class Financial provided a twenty five dollars

(02:28):
gift card to Best Buy for theClass Quiz question of the week. Listen
close to the program most times,just about every time the question and answer
come up. During the program,we'll tell you a little bit about how
you can win that twenty five dollarsgift card to Best Buying a little bit
later on in the program, andbefore we talk about about pensions and some
of the choices around them, let'sactually take a look back at last week's
program and get the question and theanswer from the Class Quiz Question of the

(02:52):
week. Yeah, so last weekwe discussed required minimum distributions. So if
your ears are perking up and youare approaching or have become the age seventy
three, you should probably listen backto that show. So our question followed
suit It was is it okay towithdraw more than the required minimum required minimum

(03:14):
amount from your I raise each year? And the answer was true, you
can always withdraw more than required Alison, and Madison was the first to respond
correctly, so congratulations to her.Listen carefully to today's question. That's a
great, great, great win therefor Allison and you two can be like
alson listen closely. By the way, Also, if you missed any part

(03:34):
of last week's programmer you want tolisten back or share it, of course,
you can always head over to classfinancialdot com sign up and not one
for the weekly market Pulse newsletter,but also subscribe to the podcast right at
clossfinancial dot com. So today we'regonna be talking about so the possible choices
around pensions and if we're entitled toget one of those, what should we
be aware of before making that choice? CJ. Yeah, good questions.

(03:57):
So the landscape on the number ofretire who receive pensions has changed quite a
bit in the last four decades.So here's a little background on retirement plans
for employers. Typically, they're dividedinto two types, defined benefit plans and
define contribution plans. In some cases, employers of private industry workers and state

(04:19):
and local government workers have access toboth defined benefit and define contribution plans.
As a matter of fact, twelvepercent of private industry workers and thirty four
percent of state and local government workershad access to these defined defined benefit plans
in twenty twenty two. Now,a pension is just one of many types

(04:42):
of retirement plans. Define benefit plans, also known as pensions, provide employees
with guaranteed retirement benefits based on aformula. A participant's retirement age, length
of service, and earnings before retirementmay affect the benefits that you receive now.
For example, if your employer promisesto pay you, say three thousand

(05:03):
dollars per month after you reach agesixty five, that would be a defined
benefit pension plan. Your employer madea promise to pay you a certain amount
of income and retirement, which iswhy they call it defined benefit. When
people use the word pension, they'realmost always referring to a defined benefit plan.

(05:24):
Where this can be confusing for peopleis when they say, well,
I thought I had a defined benefitpension, but they also offered me a
lump sum at the end. Sothat doesn't mean you don't have a pension.
It just means that particular pension mightoffer a lump sum instead of instead
of just a monthly income stream.So, according to the Bureau of Labor,

(05:45):
defined benefit plans were more prevalent forstate and local government workers in twenty
twenty two, whereas defined contribution planswere more prevalent for private industry workers.
Only fifteen percent of private industry workershad access us to a pension plan compared
with eighty six percent of state andlocal government workers. So there you go.

(06:06):
There's some there's some background talking thismorning with CJ. Closs and Maliaquavis.
They are our retirement planning professionals fromClass Financial. The website Coss Financial
dot com. That's k LaaS Financialdot com. Fantastic website and resource teleph
number for Class Financial office right herein Madison, sixt' oh eight four four
two five six three seven. Nocharge for that initial gets to know your

(06:26):
appointment tech loss Financial. It willbe complementary to you again their number six
oh eight four four two five,six three seven, and it joined us
this morning. Love to get yourcall six oh eight three two one thirteen
ten. We'll get you right onthe air with CJ. Closs and Malia
Quavis again the station number six oheight three two one thirteen ten. Let's
get a little history, a littlebackground CJ. On on pensions here in

(06:46):
the United States. Yeah, toyour point, Sewan, a little history.
In the nineteen eighties, roughly thirtyeight percent of workers had a pension,
but as of twenty twenty two,only about twenty one percent of Americans
who are retiring have access to apension plan. Now, some of you
are going, wait, I thoughtyou said it was fifteen percent before and
then eighty six per for federal andlocal. It depends what we're talking about.

(07:08):
Are we talking about access as anew employer. We talk about people
retiring with them. So all youreally need to know is the following.
State and local government workers tend tohave access to pension plans, whereas private
employees don't have access to them asmuch. Now, of course, people
say, well, why is thishappening? Why is their trend towards towards

(07:30):
having less access to pension plans inthe private sector, And one of the
biggest reasons is the substantial risk thatthey bring to an employer. For obvious
reasons, making a promise to paya worker a large sum of money after
they retire, which could be thirtyfive years from today, is a very
risky thing to do, especially ifyou are doing that for a promised amount

(07:53):
over an unknown period of time.Right, So think of it in terms
of your four one K. Nota big deal for an employer to say,
hey, we'll put two grand amonth into your four one K plan
for you, and then when youleave goodbye, we'll kick you out the
door and take your money. Kindof a thing. There's not an unknown
risk there. They have a veryclear risk pool. You decide how you
want to invest it. When youleave, it's yours. Conversely, a

(08:16):
pension plan, it's a you're poolingrisk with a bunch of people. They
retire, you're paying them a dollaramount for an unknown period of time.
If they're alive till one hundred andten, you know, I'm sure you're
happy as an employer being like,God, bless you. You lived a
long time, but you're really screwingup our bension here. So you get
the idea. These pension plans arebecoming less common, primarily because they are

(08:37):
such a drag on the employer froma profit profitability standpoint. In the future,
now, pensions will remain relatively commonin the public sector, as most
full time state and local government workersare enrolled in a defined benefit retirement plan.
If your employer offers to put fivethousand into your four one k every

(08:58):
year, again, that would bea defined contribution plan, not a defined
benefit pension plan. And don't forgetabout employers that you may have had a
long time ago where you might stillhave an old pension or an old four
to oh one k plan. It'sa matter of fact. When we meet
with people off this show or referralsor whatever it might be, one of

(09:20):
the most common items we run intois two three, four five old retirement
plans sitting in old accounts where statementsaren't being received, don't know exact values,
don't know if it's pretax or roth, don't know if it's defined benefit
or defined contribution, And I justcan't stress enough. Nobody can help you
if you don't know what you haveright, and so the point being maybe

(09:43):
one of the first steps is tobring together all those statements, sit down
with somebody who can make heads ortails of it all, and then kind
of run a projection for you soyou know what to expect. Really nice
conversation this week. Of course,CJ help us kind of understand a little
bit of the background, define benefitplans and divine contribution plans, a little

(10:03):
bit about the history when it comesto pensions. A lot of great stuff
for the groundwork there we're gonna getinto then some important things to know before
you retire, and of course theimportance when it comes to choosing if you
do have a pension, making thosechoices, and what to understand in some
of the some of the areas thatyou definitely want to investigate. We're and
talk with CJ and Malia about thatin just a moment. Also, if
you've got a question, we wouldlove to have you join us this morning

(10:24):
on the show. All I gotto do is pick up phone call the
station six oh eight three two onethirteen ten. That's six oh eight three
two one thirteen ten. To geton the air with CJ. Coss and
Malia Quavis. Their website at CossFinancial it is Cossfinancial dot com. That's
k l Aasfinancial dot com. Andthe office here in Madison six oh eight
four four two five six three seven. No charge for the initial gets to

(10:46):
know you appointment at co Loss Financial. It will be complimentary to you again
their number six oh eight four fourtwo five six three seven. Take your
call next to continue our conversation withCJ and Malia as. Money in Motion
with Coss Financial continues right here onthirteen ten. Wuib A talking with our
retirement planning professionals from Class Financial,CJ. Closs and Malia Quavis. The

(11:07):
website class Financial dot com. That'sklaas Financial dot com. Fantastic website,
fantastic telephone number six so eight fourfour two five six three seventy. Say
Sean, how can a phone numberbe fantastic? I'll tell you why because
there's no charge that initi'll get toknow you appointment at Loss Financial. It
will be complementary to you again theirnumber six oh eight four four two five
six three seven. If you've gota question right now, we'd love to

(11:30):
have you join us six oh eightthree two one thirteen ten. That's six
oh eight three two one thirteen ten. Talking pensions this week with CJ Closs
and Malia quavisoff Claus Financial. Sowhat should I know then before retire when
it comes to pension choices that maybe offered? Malia, Yeah, this
is a really important question. AndCJ brought up a great point. We

(11:52):
spend a lot of time trying tokind of get into the cobwebs of your
head when we sit down with youto ask, really, did you have
a job in the past that potentiallyproduced a pension when you go to retire
that will produce a pension? Andusually people are pretty sharp on this.
They're like, no, I onlyworked at two places. They had this
plan, they had this plan,It's like all is good. Many times

(12:15):
people had four or five jobs andthey honestly, they know they put money
in, but they don't really knowhow it would come out someday. So
I recently had a client walk inand they said, hey, Malea,
I got this piece of paper inthe mail and I don't quite understand it.
Well. Effectively, the company hadkept track of where the person lived

(12:35):
and saw that they were sixty five, and they actually had a benefit coming
to them in the tune of twothousand dollars per month now that they hit
age sixty five. So this wastwo thousand dollars of income better than a
bill in the mail, right,two thousand dollars of income that we hadn't
accounted for that they now have comingin twenty four thousand a year outside of

(12:56):
Social Security, outside of investments.So is really really important to make sure
you know where you scirrelled away thosedollars. So it's always a blessing when
you find out something like that.So, yes, when you go to
retire and you are vested in apension plan, you're going to have to
usually choose how you want to receivethose pension benefits. So again, the

(13:18):
traditional pension plan is designed to provideyou with what we would call a steady
stream of income once you retire.That's why your pension benefits are normally paid
in the form of lifetime monthly benefits. What we're going to tell you some
choices here in this just a second. But what we're seeing more increasingly happen

(13:39):
is employers, especially if they're tiny, little pension benefits like two hundred bucks
a month or something like that.We're seeing employers making available to their employees
a one time payment for all ora portion of the pension, So you
want to be aware of choices likethat. We call that a lump sum
payout. Option. Might not bethe right choice for you, but it's
important and to be aware that thatmight even exist. Essentially, the companies

(14:03):
want to get these smaller pension requirementsoff their books, so, like I
said, we're seeing more and moreof that. But what you need to
remember is that once you sign thepaperwork, the agreement is usually not always,
but usually irrevocable from that day forward. So be careful studying the numerous
distribution plan choices because you want tomake sure that the one that you choose

(14:24):
actually fits your financial needs. Sogenerally speaking, we see five different options
of pension choices. There could beother ones, but these are the most
important ones we see. First oneis single life. That choice usually has
the highest monthly payout. You're goingto get the highest dollars per month coming

(14:45):
out that you would receive. Butwhat you need to remember is this payout
ends when you pass away, sothere's no residual that's going to go to
a spouse or a state. Soagain, single life usually has the highest
monthly payout. Oftentimes we have clientswho are married, and so essentially you
are excluding that person from eventually maybegetting a portion of your benefit. So

(15:11):
many times there has to be asign off that you've chosen that you can't
just do it independently, but youwant to be very very careful that you
understand the other sources of income thatwill affect your household should you pass away.
The second common choice we see isfifty percent joint and survivor, So
you are taking a lower monthly benefitnow, but upon your death, your

(15:31):
surviving spouse will get fifty percent ofyour current benefit. We often see that's
a very common choice for people becausethey want to make sure their spouse still
has some kind of income coming fromtheir pension that they worked for for many
many years to collect. The thirdone we see is one hundred percent joint

(15:52):
in survivor. So this is usuallya lower amount of benefit now, but
upon your death, your surviving spousewill get the same benefit. So say
you're getting one thousand dollars a monthon one hundred percent joint survivor, they're
going to continue getting the same thingafter you pass away, So again that
gives us predictability what your income isgoing to look like whether you're here or

(16:12):
not. Obviously, that's important ifwe're talking about social Security benefits, because
when one spouse passes, only thehighest amount continues to be paid out with
Social Security benefits, so effectively you'relosing a big portion of income in your
household. And the other choices wouldbe life with ten years certain that payments

(16:36):
guaranteed to be paid out for minimumof ten years will continue as long as
you live, but if you dieprior to the ten years, payments can
continue through the year ten. Andthen again we see lump sums being an
option, not always, but alump some you could take out the entire
amount that's offered and possibly roll thatinto your IRA. So we would say

(16:59):
that offers you the most flexibility oftentimesbecause you get to choose your investments that
your i RA is allocated into,and it also allows you to determine how
much income you'll need on a monthlybasis, and then upon your death,
the remaining amount of the value goesto your beneficiaries. But you want to
make sure you clearly understand every singlepension choice and how it'll affect you.

(17:25):
I also want to mention about inflation. People ask about pensions and inflation,
so your benefits may or may notbe adjusted for inflation from those from those
pensions. The National Association of StateRetirement Administrators they estimate that seventy five percent
of pensions sponsored by state or localgovernments will provide some cost of living increases.

(17:48):
However, private pensions often don't,So you want to be aware that
pension payments generally are fixed, especiallyin the private sector. They're fixed,
meaning that you're you know, inflationcan actually eat away at the value of
those payments going forward. So treadcarefully, make sure you understand what your
choices are, and sit down witha professional to make sure you don't hit

(18:11):
the wrong box. A really nice, really nice feature and a great blessing
to have, but you really wantto make sure that, yeah that you
mentioned, Malia, tread carefully,and these are big time decisions that oftentimes
you mentioned can once made, they'remade. Talking this morning with our retirement
planning professionals Malia Quavis and CJ.Coss. The website colss Financial dot com.
That's coss k l a as Financialdot com. Tel number six so

(18:32):
eight four four two five six threeseven so CJ. So if I'm offered
a lump sum option my pension,should I be considering taking that? Possibly?
So here's here's the concept. Iwant everybody to keep in their brains
as we start talking about taking alump sum or not taking a lump sum.
And again, what we're talking abouthere are these defined benefit pension plans.

(18:56):
Whenever you hear defined benefit, justthink of yourselves, think of it
through the lens of love. Well, the benefit is the monthly income.
It's a defined benefit. Therefore,that's the income stream. That's that's a
synonymous with pension. And then whenyou think defined contribution, think, well,
I know how much I'm putting in, but I don't know how much
I'm getting out. That's a fourto one K, four oh three B,

(19:17):
four to fifty seven plans, soon and so forth. But what
we're talking about here is these definedbenefit, these defined known monthly amount pension
plans. Will sometimes say, hey, do you want us to treat this
more like a four to one Kplan and just give you your money and
leave. And sometimes people will willgo no, no, because you're trying
to get away with something they're actuallynot by the way. They're taking average

(19:38):
life expectancy and creating what's called adiscounted present value of that number and giving
you the total amount. What they'retrying to do is get the future liability
of you living too long off theirlaps. So that's one concept I want
you to keep in your brain.Why is the employer offering this to me
if it wasn't offered before, Becausethey're trying to get the what's called discounted

(20:00):
the present value of all the futureincome streams lump some using your average life
expectancy to get that risk off theirlap. Therefore, it would be normal
to say, if I have alot of longevity in my genes, I
might not want to do that.So that brings a second concept. Whenever
you're evaluating pensions, you need tolook at something called an ir R,

(20:23):
an internal rate of return. Now, anybody who's good with a calculator,
financial calculator, a good financial advisor, a good CFA or CFP should be
able to run a calculation for youon what's called this ir R. And
this is the basis for lump sumpension decisions. The IRR is what we
call a hurdle rate. The ideais, hey, if I'm going to

(20:45):
take this lump sum and I'm goingto generate the same monthly income that the
pension was going to provide to me, how much return do I need to
get in order to run this thingto zero by the time I die,
because that's what they were going todo for me. That makes sense.
So if I was going to gettwo thousand dollars a month, but instead

(21:06):
I take a through four hundred thousanddollars lump sum, how much return do
I need to get between now andmy expected death age in order to run
it to zero at that time becausethat's what the pension was going to do
for me. This is known asthe ir R or the hurdle rate,
and this is how good advisors willmake decisions on this. Sometimes that IRR

(21:29):
will be really large, especially whenthere's like a cost of living adjustment inside
of the pension. Sometimes that IRRwill be quite low, to where you
go, oh, my goodness,my hurdle rate quote unquote unquote is three
percent if I live to average lifeexpectancy like, I'm pretty comfortable that I
can do that investing on my ownover time. So here's the con You

(21:51):
know, these are the concepts,but I would say be aware of the
risks of longevity. What a pensiondoes, really, really well is it
eliminates for you what's called longevity risk, also known as living too long.
If you live too long ninety onehundred, one hundred and five, which
we're seeing people living longer. Ifthat happens to you, you will love

(22:15):
your pension, right, because that'sjust two thousand a month. There's rose
up no matter how long you live. If you live a shorter period of
time in retirement, well, mygoodness, you're going to wish you had
taken the lump sum because now whenyou die, at least there's something left
over for your beneficiaries. Most pensions, if you take it on a single
life basis, or if you andyour spouse die in a common accident,

(22:36):
there's going to be nothing left over. Even if you die five years after
retiring, retiring nothing left over.So let me summarize in the lump sum
decision. It is significantly more complicatedthan the average person believes. However,
a good financial advisor in about atwenty minute conversation with you should be able

(22:57):
to encompass the different variable, giveyou different hurdle rates, talk about your
life expectancy and mortality risk and thencome up with a with a good decision.
Fantastic stuff this week, as alwaysfrom our retirement planning professionals from Class
Financial, CJ. Closs and MaliaQuavis. The website cost financial dot com
that's k l a a S Financialdot com. Telephone number six oh eight

(23:18):
four four two five six three seven. No charge for that initial get to
know you appointment at COSS Financial.It will be complimentary to you again the
number six oh eight four four twofive six three seven. Well, of
course do the Class Quiz clush weekcoming up to the next segment. Also,
you may be wondering what about taxes. We'll get some details from CG
in Malia and do the CLSs quizquestion the week next. As Money in

(23:38):
Motion continues right here on thirteen ten, wib E talking this morning with our
retirement planning professionals CJ. Closs andMalia Quavis. They come to us from
COSS Financial. The website coss Financialdot com that's k l AA s Financial
dot Com at the telephone number sixoh eight four four two five six three

(23:59):
seven charge for that initial gets toknow you appointment tech Loss Financial again their
number six so eight four four totwo five six three seven. Talking this
week about pensions and Malia. Whathappens when I start taking those distributions from
my pensions? Would I have topay taxes? What do we need to
know? So that's an important thing. Sometimes people are surprised they start the

(24:19):
pensions and come January of the nextyear, they don't understand why there's taxes
do and so we'll just point outthat most pension benefits are federally taxable,
So right out of the gate,when you begin taking pension income, you'll
need to determine if you should havetaxes withheld from those pension payments. Many

(24:40):
people think about this for their SocialSecurity, but sometimes they tune out for
their pension payments, which obviously manytimes can be even larger than Social Security.
So it's best that you plan onpaying taxes on any pension income you're
going to receive. Try to dothat when you set up the original original
paperwork, because it's to get itdone on the front end. Then go

(25:02):
back in and adjust it. Butthere may be exceptions. So sometimes after
tax money may have been contributed intothe pension, so a portion may be
tax free. Sometimes with pensions paiddue to a disability, a portion of
that benefit may be tax free.So there's always exceptions, but generally from
a federal level, most are federallytaxable. Now when we stay when we

(25:25):
start discussing state income taxability, itdoes matter where you live. So many
of our listeners in the state ofWisconsin should know that income from retirement accounts,
including pensions or distributions from i rasor four to oh one k's are
fully taxable at rates ranging from threepoint five to seven point sixty five percent.

(25:47):
So that's most pensions. However,income from a government government pension,
for example with the Wisconsin Retirement system, is not taxable, so you have
to understand your specific situation. Youknow, interesting to note, you know
Social Security is not taxed in Wisconsinor Illinois, so you want to understand
what will be taxable for that incomecoming to your door every single year and

(26:11):
what you might need to withhold from. Whereas state of Illinois, income from
pensions and distributions from IRA's and fouroh one ks and TSP plans. Those
are not taxable, so maybe youneed to shift and retire to Illinois,
you know, across the border fordifferent reasons. And there's also states that
if you're getting a pension retirement youmight prefer to live in aside from Illinois,

(26:33):
where pension income is not taxed.So there's about fourteen of those.
Look up to see the city orI should say, the state that you
live and to find out if that'sgoing to be taxed. I did see
Hawaii's on that list. There yougo high cost a living, but you
might save some taxes exactly. Ithink one of the things Malia too,
A lot of folks wonder is cana pension plan be terminated or is that

(26:56):
protected? Or what do we needto know in that area. Yeah,
that's a really great question, andwe do talk about, you know,
a couple shows ago about guarantees andpeople do want to hear about protection.
So if your employer offers a pension, they can decide to terminate it,
and in those situations, you're acrude benefit usually becomes frozen, which means

(27:17):
that you will get it whether you'vewhatever you've earned up to that point,
but you usually can't accumulate any additionalpension income. But with regards to protection,
typically pensions are ensured by the PensionBenefit Guarantee Corporation otherwise known as PBGC
SO. That's a federal agency createdby the Employment Retirement Income Security Act.

(27:40):
Many people referred to it as ARISAthat came out in nineteen seventy four and
that helps protect pension benefits in theprivate sector define benefit plans in the event
your company declares bankruptcy or can't makeits payments. It's a very important program
that exists, and unfortunately we haveseen private pensions many times not pay as

(28:02):
much as they had promised. Buthopefully, with the help of this guarantee,
you will be guaranteed your full benefit. So if you want to find
out guarantee limits, go to PBGCdot gov to check and find out how
your pension plan might be covered.Important website. There another important website coluss
Financial dot com that's coss k laas Financial dot com. Tellph number six

(28:23):
oh eight four four two five sixthree seven No charge for that initial get
to know your appointment at Class Financial. It will be complimentary to you.
Again, their number six o eightfour four two five six three seven.
Go on hold on to that telephonenumber as well, because it's time now
for the class quiz question the week. It works like this is just a
moment, I'll ask you the classquiz question the week. We then have
thirty minus from the today's program tocall the Class Financial office right here in

(28:45):
Madison at six oh eight four fourtwo five six three seven. If you
are the first call correct answering,win this week's prize, which is a
twenty five dollars gift card to bestbuy this week's class quiz questions a week.
Is this which pension option usually providesthe highest monthly payout? Is it
a single life or is it afifty percent joint and survivor option? Telphone

(29:10):
number six oh eight four four twofive six three seven. First got Correctdan,
so one of the twenty five dollarsgift car two best buying again.
That's Class Financial's office right here inMadison, their number six oh eight four
four two five six three seven,and the website COSS financial dot com.
That's COSS k l A A SFinancial dot com. Cjmalia. It's always
great chatting with both of you guysenjoyed this most beautiful days thanks to Sean

(29:33):
Roz White with Tina the Tina TurnerMusical. It's gonna be at the Overture
Center. She'll be joining us nexthere on thirteen ten wib A