April 23, 2024 • 34 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to talk about the Bengals, draft possibilities, Jake Browning's new deal, and a bunch more.
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Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
What's up. Good afternoon, Moleger. This is esp In fifteen thirty.
Thank you for listening. Hopefully you'rehaving a terrific Tuesday afternoon. We're loaded
today, Red's good shut out.Last night, Hunter Green pitched. Okay,
okay, the Reds have a startingline up to town tonight. I
(00:25):
don't know that most of us wouldcharacterize it as okay. We'll get to
that in a bit, but first, our friend Paul Dayner Junior is here.
He is very busy. The Bengalsare on the clock on Thursday night,
round one of the draft, andPaul is covering it for the Athletic.
He's got the Growl of podcast.The big mega mock draft was done
(00:48):
yesterday. They've got a live podcastcoming up a week from tonight, which
we're going to talk about. He'sgot his full seven round mock draft.
We have a lot to discuss.Yeah, well, because we finally made
it. It's like I envy thefans who get to just not really pay
attention and then show up draft.We can be like, so, what's
going on? So we're sort ofsaying the same things but louder, and
(01:10):
you also reach the point where likeeverything comes first full circle where when we
first started talking about the draft whenthe Bengals season ended, and it was
like, well, you gotta lookat these tackles. That Latham guy seems
like he would fit or or youknow, I guess maybe it's gonna be
Mimes or whoever you're talking about.And we talked ourselves in eighteen different directions
since then, and now we're backand we're like, yeah, it's probably
(01:30):
one of those. So it's howthe process works. Yeah, you gotta,
but you gotta, you know,you gotta turn over every rock and
make sure we're talking about every possibletopic, and lord knows we did that.
But I am this is the excitingpart. Right. The last couple
of weeks are hard because you're justnot quite there. But now that it's
right here and we're deep in itevery you know, you're you can really
(01:52):
start to enjoy it and embrace it. Well, you know, I think
back to four years ago the JoeBurrow Draft, which you know, the
second part of the process, playit out against the pandemic. But we
joked on this show like we havesome we have certain boxes we have to
check. Okay, so one ofthe boxes is, well, should they
trade the pick? Right, weknow they're not gonna and we want them
(02:14):
to take Joe Burrow, but wewe have to we have to check that
box. And then the other boxwould be like, are we sure it's
not Tua, Are we sure it'snot justin Herbert? Are we sure it's
not Chase young And we spent especiallyonce the pandemic got here, and we
just had like large swaths of timeand nothing else really going on, so
we had to do the obligatory likehours of well, you know, maybe
(02:35):
maybe it makes sense to draft ChaseYounger. Wow. I still to this
day can't believe that it was apart of the program. I remember it
had to be yes, So Iget it. There are certain boxes that
you just have to check. Andthen at the end of it all,
we just kind of circled back toOkay, they're taking Burrow and it's gonna
be awesome. I was listening toDan Patrick the other day and Mike Florio
(02:59):
was on the are still suggesting thatthe Bengals should have traded out of number
one to the Dolphins? Say,yeah, they just got lucky that that
Burrow thing worked out. You canstill argue should have probably traded with Miami.
He's like, May, we're stillnot letting that go unbelievable. Still
there still still out there. Allright, before we get into some draft
(03:21):
nuts and bolts, let's talk abouttoday's news. Yes, singles, do
Jake Browning a solid? Yeah?I mean you earned it right, Yes,
he was kind of We talked abouthow he was just stuck. Yeah,
because he's the exclusive rights free agent. He has exclusive rights, should
be called no rights free agent.You're just this is the if they want
to pay you, this is whatyou're gonna make. And he earned more
than that. And so yeah,they do a ma solid and they give
(03:45):
themselves security there two years mat that'swhere it was gonna end up anyway with
him, And so I mean,how do you not love their quarterback room?
Right now? On top of youhave Burrow, So you know you
have an elite guy at number one, but you have somebody behind him that
fits well, that has proven himself. So something happens, maybe it won't
be like last year, and you'rescared to death to send him out there
(04:06):
to play against the Rams and said, send a hobble Joe Burrow out there
in week three because you're worried thatthis his backup can't win you a game.
Now, you know, everybody believesand we talked about this with Brandon
Allen in the beginning was when hehad a couple of really good games.
As long as the people around himon offense believe that he can go win
(04:27):
you a game. And it's nota feeling of dread when you take the
field. You need that that isimportant. That's the feeling you want.
You're not necessarily you want. Youwant whatever whoever your backup quarterback comes from,
he comes from. You just wantthe feeling and the rest of the
players when they go out there.Even though we have our starter today,
we got a chance. Jake Browninggave you that. He's every everybody loves
(04:48):
him. This was that was kindof a good, any uneasy, no
brainer and easy thing to do.You can function and do even more than
just function with Jake Browning. It'sit's it's the greatest insurance. Paul.
Ever, here's a guy that hashad some success in our system, feels
like he's going to be prepared.Do I want him to play six seven,
eight games? No? But Ialways look at the backup quarterback to
(05:09):
the simple lens of Joe, go'sin a concussion protocol and the other guy's
got to play a half and it'sseventeen all and you got to figure out
a way to win the game.Can he do that for you? The
answer is yes. Yeah, it'sa great feeling to have Joe likes him.
He has proven he will be readyand be a gamer at all times.
I mean that's kind of just hismentality that we learned about last year.
(05:30):
So yeah, I think everything everythingthat you let that you look for
in a backup quarterback, Jake Browninghas and they do him a little bit
a solid by giv him a littleextra money and security and he earned that.
Uh. They also bring back Loganwoods Yeah, let's go. So
if you would have said to meon the Saturday night of the twenty eighteen
draft, the last draft of theMarvin Lewis regime, that there would be
(05:56):
uh free active players in the NFLfrom that draft, I would have thought,
Okay, well, Billy Price isa chance to you know, stick
right, and Jesse Bates and thenSam Hubbard okay, and then who else
Logan wood Side. Yes, ifyou would have told me that when it
was during it was either OTAs orcamp he got popped. No, it
(06:19):
was around that time when they justhad him out there as like scout team
safety and he had chains around hisneck. I was like, well,
that doesn't bode well for his NFLfuture, But yet he matured here and
here he is. He's he's beencollecting checks in the NFL. Good for
Logan wood Side. Anybody should hopeto have his NFL career at this point.
(06:40):
Amazing. Yeah, he's still playingin the NFL in twenty twenty four,
outlasted Billy Price. He played ina game last year for the Atlanta
Falcons. Good for him, man, good for Logan Woodside. That's that's
one of the See that's the partof the draft that I like. I
like it when yeah, sort ofbig Day three guy, well not really
a big Day three guy, butI like when Logan Woodside gott in a
(07:00):
game for the Falcons last year.I don't know how I found that out,
but I said, is that thesame guy from Toledo the Bengals drafted?
And then it was like, yes, wait a minute, he's still
playing football in the NFL. Amazingand getting checks and gotten a game.
Yes, he's back it's great.It's great. What a wonderful world.
(07:23):
Of the many things that you takepart in. I enjoy the AFC North
whip around, you do? Ido? I like the whip around because
it's a chance to kind of checkin with what's happening with the other teams
in the AFC North for those whodon't know, and you should because you
should be subscribing to a Paul's workingin the Athletic. But Paul and the
other three beat writers who cover AFCNorth teams will tackle, you know,
(07:45):
various topics throughout the course of theweek. There's one of them I wanted
to talk about with you, allright, what's that? So you were
asked to outline. You and theother three guys were as to outline best
and worst case scenarios. Best andworst case scenarios for the BENGALSS case for
the Bengals, as you documented,was best case would be at least four
(08:05):
quarterbacks, multiple corners, a surprisereceiver, and a couple of edge rushers
come off in front of them,leaving at least one of Latham JC Latham
tell Esfuaga Fuatano or Byron Murphy thesecond to pick that's best case. Yeah,
I think so that's best case.Yeah, guys at the positions that
they want most, that fit them. Yeah, if best case ends up
(08:26):
being reality, who among those fourguys would they pick. I have planted
my flag on Byron Murphy for along time now. H I wrote a
whole story how he's basically my guy. Like, I don't claim that.
I just think he can have themost effect on this team winning of anybody,
(08:48):
just because that position is so rare, the value is so high.
It's such a scarcity there that tome, that would be the direction that
I would go. And I wouldstart trying to figure out tackle because you
do have Trent Brown and is hegonna play a full season? I mean,
you certainly aren't counting on that.But like I, they have found
(09:09):
answers at tackle, and you canspend a second or third round pick and
say, hey, by week whatever, if an injury occurs, this guy
could be ready. You know,a second round pick could be ready to
come in and play. That's justthat. If you're talking about the trade
off on that, what you're givingup is you could have an elite three
(09:30):
technique, which is something the entireleague is dying to find So that to
me would be my answer on that, what will they do? They know
what they would do. I mean, I've heard, we've heard a lot
of talk about how they are inthese meetings now and they're ongoing. And
if you don't believe that stacking theboard across positions with things like the question
you just asked, are what they'vebeen sitting around over the last week,
(09:52):
making sure that everyone's comfortable with andyour creat That's what's happening. So what
will they do? We'll find outif that happens. I I just think
I think what they have needed andwanted is there in Murphy potentially if he
was there. I don't think hewill be there. But I think one
of the tackles, you know,you're you're happy with all your with all
of them, all right. Iwant to stay on the position that Byron
(10:15):
Murphy, the place Byron Murphy playsByron Murphy, the plays what Byron Murphy?
The second place we'll do that thisis live radio. Yeah, so
when I make mistakes there it isyou just do it? Makes you human?
Sure? That's it? Yes?Makes me human? Yes? Accessible?
Accessible? Yes? Sure. PaulDanner Juniors here the Athletic dot Com,
The Growler Podcast, and I wantto talk about your live podcast one
(10:37):
week from tonight. We'll get tothat when we come back. He is
here until four o'clock. We arehere till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. It's three twenty.This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger,
Paul Danner Juniors, here at theAthletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast,
the Mega Mock Draft Special which PaulJmore, Butch Hobson, James Rapine Mock
(11:01):
Draft. Yeah, I will admitto you that I am midway through.
That's good. I mean, youknow it gets only gets better. Yeah,
you go, It's it's fun.Speaking of the podcast, love that
exercise. Yeah, speaking of thepodcast, you have a live post draft
podcast, yeah, from tonight.I am so excited about this. So
we've partnered with uh at MGM Sportsbookand Nation Kitchen at the Banks down there,
(11:28):
which if you have you've if you'vebeen to a Reds game, you've
seen it's right down right down thereacross from JVP. The space is awesome,
it's perfect for what we wanted todo, and and they've just been
a great partner to be in withhere and so we're gonna be down there
seven o'clock Tuesday, April thirtieth.It's Bengals College Scouting director Mike Potts,
who spoke today the Press convers isgonna be there to when we'll break down
(11:50):
all the picks we've done. I'vedone this every year. It's one of
my favorite things that we are ableto do because these guys have a year's
worth of insight and stories and pathto every pick. There's so much nuance
to everything to really unpack, andMike is the perfect person to do.
And we'll invite a bunch of otherscouts who have hopped on with us in
the past and go down there.We'll talk through that well food and drinks.
(12:13):
Of course, Nation just crushes ifthey have so much good food and
you come down listen, dude,we'll do draft talk and then of course
we'll myself and Jay and March willbe down there. We'll be hanging out
having drinks afterwards talking If you guyswant to catch anybody want to catch up,
then So seven o'clock next Tuesday,Mike Potts will be our guest,
(12:33):
but we'll do a full live growlerdown there. This will be fun because
Tuesday, right seven o'clock your podcast, Mark will be there. Yeah,
I'm gonna come down. It's alsogame five if necessary, Nick Sixers.
Yeah. Mark's a big Knicks fan. Yeah, I'm a big Knicks.
We'll get you guys a screen Ithink we can get you guys a screen
over. So yeah, I mean, it could be fun. It could
(12:56):
be very fun. I'm just sayingit could be big. Put them away
if necessary, if necessary necessary,probably won't, probably won't be. If
necessary, it'll be over. Butno, it's gonna be great. So
Eric, come on down seven o'clocka week from tonight. I listened to
Zach Taylor yesterday and I listened toMike Potts. Mike Potts understandably was not
(13:16):
nearly as revealing as he will bewhen he joins you. But I did
enjoy listening to Zach a little bityesterday, just talking about the process because
me as I'm into the draft andI'm into who they take, but I'm
really I think it'd just be socool to really be pulled back into the
room to just watch how Draft Nightitself plays out. And I thought,
(13:37):
Zach, maybe a little bit moreso than he has been since he arrived.
Was kind of interesting just talking abouthow the sausage is made during the
draft. Yeah, I mean,I think it's fascinating because I mean,
teams do do things differently, andthe Bengals are built a little bit differently,
but you know they when you whenyou get into that room, it's
(14:00):
mostly done. There's especially on Thursdaynight, there's really I think there's this
idea that there's action. It's incrediblyThursday Night's incredibly boring in there because if
there's anything that they have done andput to bed, it's the order of
what's going to happen in round one, like one through eighteen, and really
the same for up to forty.You get way more action on day two
(14:20):
because you get a lot more tradesare involved a whole day. Teams have
recalibrated their boards and things have changed, but Day one has been so structured.
You know where you would trade to, you know who you would talk
to. You probably have things setin place. If you're gonna move,
you know who you're gonna take,and what that order is. If it
gets to that, so it becomesalmost like, Okay, get this out
of the way I would want tobe in there on Day two. That
(14:43):
is the most action pack day.Everybody has needs that they're trying to fill,
things that they're reacting to. Everybody'strying to move. That to me
is the day that is the ultimatewhere you know, that's where you win
and loose in this league is accomplishingyour goals with those Friday picks. And
I think that will be how thisdraft will absolutely be judged for the Bengals
(15:07):
this year, just because of theway they're set up, the extra pick,
their ability to move up and downif they want to, and their
needs that they have at very importantpositions. I think that is the most
fascinating day and we'll see how theyhandle it. We talked about Byron Murphy
and what they would do if he'sthere at eighteen and sign me up for
taking him fills an obvious need.Why don't I feel very good about what
(15:33):
they could do a defensive tackle laterin the draft if he's not there,
Well, because there isn't any Imean there's not. There's not a ton
of players that no one's really gonnabring you that that's why those guys go
there. Yeah, have we talkedso much about Byron Murphy that we make
the other guys seem like they justtotally suck. No, I don't think
(15:54):
they any I don't think it doso, I think it's close. I
don't know that he is at thetop of their board. I mean,
I'm just a lot of people likeNewton More. Yeah, some people like
and that's fine. I just youknow, that's great. I mean you
can get He's he will bring youall the pass rush you want to.
I mean, that's that's what you'relooking for. There's not as much of
the other stuff there as Murphy givesyou a little more versatility, a little
(16:15):
more against the run, but youknow, pass rushing from inside is as
valuable as it gets. So II think you can accomplish. They have
put themselves into a position a littlebit where yeah, you're not you're not
gonna get what you want after that, there's because there's that's where those guys
go. I think they can pieceit together after that. I think there's
(16:38):
plenty of guys that that could comein here, but there's just not a
lot of history in this league ofplayers coming from. Where the Bengals will
pick in round two around three andcoming in and having big time impact,
and they kind of need some impactsthey put They put themselves in this spot,
and that's why that feeling exist.My question was not so much about
(17:02):
the lack of talent, for lackof a better way of putting it.
After Byron Murphy, it's the positionthe Bengals are in and what they've done
to themselves specifically at that spot.Yeah, I think they would. You
don't ever want to feel like youhave an obvious need, and I think
that they've done some certainly too.It doesn't feel that way. I mean
(17:22):
with Rankins and Hilly, they needbodies, but it doesn't feel like they
are just a disaster there. Butthey need pieces. I mean, they
need more in there, and theyneed it for this year and they need
it for the future. You don'tever want to have even that feeling.
But that doesn't mean, you know, there's plenty of players that they could
(17:44):
sit here and grab Chris Jenkins atforty nine and everyone will by the time
they pick and the fourth round,everyone will already be sold that he's the
answer and that was the best thingthat could have happened. Yeah, or
any number of these guys that dohave potential that you would take in the
second round, and they're part ofa rotation and you can find a way
to make it work, and thenthey'll take another one on day three that
can come in and be the newJosh Tupo and you can see how it
(18:07):
all fits together. Is that gonnabe enough to slow down Travis Henry or
I'm sorry, Derek Henry. DerekTravis Henry school reference like that, Dereck
Henry, Sure job. I thinkI mean, I don't think you have
Baltimore this overall running game. Yeah, okay, I mean I maybe I
think you don't have You don't haveto have DJ reader to stop the run.
(18:30):
You know, you can find otherways to do it. Lou Anumo
will be in charge of scheming thatup. They had DJ reader last year
and they didn't stop the run verywell. I don't disagree with that.
I think that's partially on lou AnaRumo's lap. Is you got to figure
out how to do this? Isthere a new way that you've got to
(18:51):
construct it? What is that runfits always comes back to run fits?
Isn't it run fit practice? Canwe put you You've often talked about jobs
that you would like to hold atthe Bengals. Could we make you like
director of run fits and just haveyou run drills helping everyone with their run
fits? Like is that? CanI make this? Can we find a
(19:12):
way to produce this? Maybe?But I just I have you know,
we were talking about like nightmare scenarios. Mine is we get to like five
or six weeks in and they're gettingbeaten up upfront and teams are running up
and down against them, and Igotta listen to analysts talk about run fits.
Yeah, it's coming. Whenever I'mhearing somebody talk about run fits,
(19:33):
First of all, I get reallybored very quickly. Second, nobody ever
talks about run fits when they're stoppingthe run, right, not a lot
of runfit columns being written when they'restopping the run. Yeah. I haven't
gotten a whole lot of clicks onmy gap discipline story, you know.
So I if we get to Octoberand you and I are talking about run
fits, I'm gonna go back tothe draft in the entire offseason and Goo
(19:56):
could have fixed it. To havefixed it, no, I I've said
it a bunch of time. Ithink it's the one criticism of how free
agency unfolded with them is that theydidn't have one more guy in there that
feels solid, disserviceable right to kindof be in that mix. And and
we'll see if they can find away to get this in this draft.
But I mean, that's what's infront of them. That's why it's important.
That's why day two is important.If they don't get that on day
(20:18):
one, is they got a pinpointthat and find it all right, I
want to explore a long shot possibilityand your individual nightmare scenario. Okay,
Plus i'd like your thoughts on BillTobin. Yeah, we'll do three thirty
Paul Danner Junior. By the way, Taren, we're trying to have the
perfect show today, two for two, hitting the brake on time. Um
the way, he's Paul Danner Junior. We're aiming for a perfect show today.
(20:42):
It can happen, No, itcan't. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station Sincy three sixty withTony Pike. If we want to move
on dot to keep going and BostonElmore, I think you should continue.
Let me keep going there Sincy threesixty Tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN fifteen
thirty. Cincinnati's espnes are a serviceof Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime powertrain
(21:07):
protection and guaranteed credit approval from theirfamily to yours for life, kelseychev dot
Com. Game two of four withthe Phillies tonight at GAVP. Red's trying
to bounce back after getting shut outin two hit last night. Andrew Abbott,
Well, I'll get the ball forCincinnati, Paul in the quick Hits
segment that I do with Tony andAustin, I was asked if I would
get your thoughts on tonight's Red startinglineup. All right, let's go.
(21:32):
Stu Fairchild leading off. Well,that's not a great start. Spencer Steers
and left. Stevenson is catching Candelario'splaying third, batting fourth, ces at
first, Ellie is betting sixth againplaying short stop. Nick Martini providing protection
for Ellie in the seven hole.Santiago Espinal, who might be the worst
offensive player the Reds have ever had, Well, come on playing second base.
(21:57):
I mean, that's how bad heis playing. And he'll get four
hits tonight playing second base and bettingeighth. And then Will Benson in right
field, batting ninth you know,wasn't Stevenson just hitting ninth like a week
ago? Weren't we? I meanI feel like, yes, and now
we've moved to this he was youread him third there? Correct? Yes,
(22:21):
Yeah, we just it's fine.I don't mind Matt Messmith Ellie.
Here's the thing, like it's likeit's like, okay, don't touch anything.
It's working, okay, Like nobodynobody getting near him, don't look
at him, don't change the spotin the buying order like it's working.
Just let it keep going. SoI feel like that's I'm okay with that
(22:41):
with just leave him there. Youcould put somebody a little bit better behind
him. I get it, butI don't. I don't the rest of
it though. We're trying too hard, aren't we. Yes. I go
back to one of the one ofthe best and then eventually worse things about
Dusty Baker was he really believed inguys feeling comfortable every day coming in,
(23:03):
knowing exactly where that was going tobe and where they were gonna hit.
Yes, and gave people long runsof doing the exact same thing in the
exact same spot every single day off, sometimes to his detriment. Later in
the season, but players really appreciatedthat. Players really like they feel comfortable
coming to the ballpark every day.It means something. I think today's player
(23:26):
is very much used to moving allaround more so, much more so.
Yeah, and so that's not asbig a deal as maybe it was in
the time that we're talking about.But I don't think it's under I still
think it's a deal. I stillthink it's a thing where you do want
to be leaning into comfort more often. I'm not a manager, I'm not
here too. I think eventually youeither got players that can hitter you don't.
(23:48):
It doesn't really make that big ofa difference. But I do like
comfort when possible, and there isalways so much movement. The one thing
I remember most about Dusty Baker's lineups, it didn't matter who it was.
The center fielder was batting lead off. Drew Stubs, Drew Stubbs, Willie
Taveres, Corey Patterson shouldn't suit Choo. I mean, it just it did
not matter, didn't matter the centerJerry Harriston, the center fielder was hitting
(24:11):
lead off. Yeah, you thinkhe's always just had the position written down
and it just didn't really matter.Yeah, that's great. I love that
idea. Yeah, I could godown Old Red's lineup wormholes with you.
But the drafts in two days.Is there any scenario where the Bengals draft
a wide receiver in round one?Yeah, a trade back? I think
(24:40):
if you traded back, if they, if they, if you know,
something happens and the guys they like, and you're sitting there looking at the
corners. I was talking with thissomebody today. You know, the Eagles
are known for moving up in roundone, and Howie Roseman that's just kind
of hit his thing, right,they need corners. If one of those
corners is sitting there because the roundtackles happened, I could I could see
(25:00):
him calling the Bengals about moving Youmove back to twenty two. Okay,
now you're thinking a different You probablyare hoping to get somebody, but maybe
that person doesn't get to you.Move back one more time. Now the
receivers are in play. Now you'retalking about a lot of guys, whether
you're talking about Lad McConkie or AdyMitchell or whoever you like. I think
McConkie would be a dream fit forthem. That conversation only happens then I
(25:25):
don't see any of the other receiversbeing even tempting for them at eighteen.
I just don't see. I don'tbelieve that to be the case. But
I think if you move back andyou gained a bunch of picks as part
of the payoff there, you couldmake a real argument for a receiver at
that point. But I think that'sthe only scenario, and that's obviously slim.
(25:47):
Is your personal nightmare scenario on Thursdaynight, brock Bauers being there at
eighteen. No, No, Idon't. I don't care. I'm not.
I don't know why I'm painted asthis, Like Hugh Anti, he
(26:07):
may be fine. I just don'tbelieve that that's the direction that you should
go with a first round pick.No matter, just seen enough of this.
You're just trying to set me upto do another Bowers rant. I
am because do we need? Can'tyou just play the last ones? Because
it's not to me. It's it'snot about Bowers. It's about not It's
about what you're going to have toput up with if Bowers is there and
(26:32):
they don't take him, and thenhe goes to Pittsburgh, yes or wherever?
Correct, Pittsburgh obviously nine catches againstthe bank, he's he's Sam Laporta,
and we end up doing this wholething again. I get it.
Yeah, that's fine. I don't. I don't. I'm I'm willing to
eat that because there's also a chancehe'll be any of the other tight ends
(26:52):
that have been drafted in the firstround over the last decade that have not
been anywhere close to or definitely haven'tbeen the best tight end in their class.
That's that's all. Do you haveif that's not your own personal nightmare
scenario? Do you have one?They trade back and add ten seventh round
(27:14):
picks to keep me there as lateas possible in the Saturday night and steal
the best drink of the year fromme, which is Saturday night after the
draft, file the last story andpodcast and sit down and top shelf bourbon.
That's your favorite one? I thoughtthe entire year, I work in
(27:36):
a normal just strictly talking like thatcircumstance. I mean, I've heard you
and Jay talk about this. Ialways thought it was after the last preseason
game, but it's it's absolutely okay. So much work in front of us
at that point. This is likethe end of our this is schools out
for summer. I mean, thisis the end of a hard run,
okay, and that it tastes nothingtastes quite as good as a Saturday night
(27:56):
drink. Nothing very good. Imean, we could do a beer debate
like vacation beers and long beers,and from my point of view, it's
hard to topple, hard to topplethat one. I gotta think what mine
would be? What would yours be? Um, well, after the Knicks
(28:17):
win the next champion, that's apersonal thing. I'm like in a professional
setting. H Well, let methink about that. Think about it,
okay, and we can come backto it. We will. It is,
uh, sixteen minutes away from fouro'clock so far, I don't want
to jinx it. This is likecelebrating a no hitter in the third inning,
but three for three en route tohopefully a perfect show. Yeah,
(28:41):
you know what. Perfect show isnot about performance. It's not about having
opinions that are proven to be trueor not stumbling over yourself. Perfect show
is hitting all the breaks on time. Everybody has to show up, yep,
And you got to hit all thebreaks on times, right, So
I showed up Terrence here, you'rehere, You've hit all the breaks on
time. There you go. That'sa good start. We decided yesterday that
(29:02):
we're gonna take a stab at executinga perfect show. Do we have to
like break into other programming on otherstations to be like alert? Moeger is
two thirds of the way perfect showprogress per show in progress. Don't go
in there and talk to him orlook at him. Perfect show alert?
Yeah, you need that. Itis quarter to four. He's Paul Danner
(29:22):
Junior Live podcast. The Growler Podcasta week from tonight at Nation and bet
MGM at the Banks starts at seveno'clock. Go see, Paul. I'm
gonna come by. We need youthere, need me there by any stretch
of the imagination there sure, justfor comic relief. To want my draft
grades? Is that what you're gonnawant? I want you to show up
(29:45):
and criticize Mike Potts on their picks. I will be like, I cannot
believe, yes, but you knowhow bad they are at run fits.
Where do you get off taking thisguy? It's a quarter to four.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sportsstation and away from four o'clock. Paul
Dayner Junior, Theathletic dot Com andthe host of the Growler podcast What Shall
(30:07):
Be Done Live at BEDMGM and Nationa week from tonight. Mike Potts will
be there. Yes, director ofCollege can Yeah, it's gonna be awesome,
he said today. Specifically, youknow, I'm close to the vest.
I'm not gonna say anything. Ican have much more detailed conversations about
all this after the draft, andI thought, oh, well that's convenient.
Then I'm glad we're gonna have youthere. It's gonna be the perfect
(30:30):
opportunity to do it, so we'llopen up the box on it. Uh.
Detroit is hosting the NFL Draft thisyear. Yeah, I don't know
when. Okay, I know where. You know where I'm going. I
mean, I have to have youcan go down to. They want to
host it. Uh, Yes,they've been trying to for a long time.
(30:51):
The lack of facilities in the cityhave gotten in the way. Okay,
hotel rooms, all that stuff.We're trying. Yeah. I think
once the All Star Game went sowell, I thought that it was gonna
be and then the NFL Draft startedmoving. But I just I think that
there are there's a lot going onthere, you know, I just feel
like them. I feel like theBengals don't get as much attention and love
(31:14):
and respect from the NFL offices often, no doubt, and Cincinnati isn't like
of course Detroit isn't. But Ijust I think there's something in the way
there, because how are they noteven in the conversation on some of this
stuff? I mean, what arewe doing here? We're gonna go to
Green Bay, You're gonna go toI mean, so it should be happening.
(31:34):
But I do think that the cityneeds to have be more prepared for
a big event like that than theycurrently are in the eyes of the NFL.
Gotcha, Yeah, Duke Tobin's fatherpassed away. Yeah, Bill Tobin.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who know the name but really
didn't know that for much of thelast twenty years, a figure with his
(31:56):
NFL life, with his football life, was working for the Bengals on a
I thought it was cool that Zachyesterday talked about his his small role but
still his role in sort of signingoff on Evan McPherson in the What a
great story because Kevin Butler was therookie kicker, I mean people free.
He basically built the eighty five Bears. I mean, like yes, you
know, and it talked about takingKevin Butler and that being a big part
(32:19):
of going to the Super Bowl.He was, of course there for a
rejuvenation of Indianapolis in the nineties andhas been more behind the scenes here with
with Duke and Cincinnati. But Imean just the amount of institutional knowledge and
instinct that that they had to beable to tap into here over the last
couple of decades, just in Cincinnati, not even you know, is that's
(32:42):
so valuable When you get to thosespots, right you're like, should we
And it's like, well, letme tell you how this worked out,
and you know where you've just seenit and you've been through all of that
stuff. And I remember, youknow, last year right at this time,
actually I wrote a big feature onDuke sort of like kind of he's
such an anonymous exec and and andwas, you know, maybe the best
(33:06):
executive that nobody knew. And hetold me in that piece he said,
you know, I my I thinkmy father, I'm you know, I'm
biased. I think my father isthe best scout this league has ever seen.
In my opinion, and I thinkhe is viewed through that lens like
he just had an unbelievable skill forthat. And I think his the genuineness
(33:30):
that he had is what helped himestablish that. And you see that in
Duke Tobin if you're familiar with Imean, just the down, down to
earth, genuine nature of that family. And you know, I had few
interactions with Bill, but you knowit's it's notable, and you hear that
from everyone, and so it's tough. Man Like, I can't imagine this
(33:52):
right now, going going through this, you know this has been going on,
so going through this, during thiswhole process and now, I mean,
anybody that's ever lost somebody, aparent knows exactly how hard that entire
process is and how much it weighsyou down. So I can only imagine
how you know, hard this season, this draft season has been for Duke.
(34:15):
I'll see you next Tuesday here andthen and then we can go.
You can even carpool with me ifyou want. We could go down together.
Oh, you have to finish theshow. You want to stay here
at all? Six, I don'there, welcome to I really don't want
to. Sure, I know I'vegot stuff to I gotta make sure.
We have to get down there andset everything up. All right, You're
ready to go. It's the perfectshows up for grabs here. Oh see
you next week. Goodbye. FiveAway From for ESPN fifteen thirty. This
(34:37):
report is sponsored
What's up. Good afternoon, Moleger. This is esp In fifteen thirty.
Thank you for listening. Hopefully you'rehaving a terrific Tuesday afternoon. We're loaded
today, Red's good shut out.Last night, Hunter Green pitched. Okay,
okay, the Reds have a startingline up to town tonight. I
(00:25):
don't know that most of us wouldcharacterize it as okay. We'll get to
that in a bit, but first, our friend Paul Dayner Junior is here.
He is very busy. The Bengalsare on the clock on Thursday night,
round one of the draft, andPaul is covering it for the Athletic.
He's got the Growl of podcast.The big mega mock draft was done
(00:48):
yesterday. They've got a live podcastcoming up a week from tonight, which
we're going to talk about. He'sgot his full seven round mock draft.
We have a lot to discuss.Yeah, well, because we finally made
it. It's like I envy thefans who get to just not really pay
attention and then show up draft.We can be like, so, what's
going on? So we're sort ofsaying the same things but louder, and
(01:10):
you also reach the point where likeeverything comes first full circle where when we
first started talking about the draft whenthe Bengals season ended, and it was
like, well, you gotta lookat these tackles. That Latham guy seems
like he would fit or or youknow, I guess maybe it's gonna be
Mimes or whoever you're talking about.And we talked ourselves in eighteen different directions
since then, and now we're backand we're like, yeah, it's probably
(01:30):
one of those. So it's howthe process works. Yeah, you gotta,
but you gotta, you know,you gotta turn over every rock and
make sure we're talking about every possibletopic, and lord knows we did that.
But I am this is the excitingpart. Right. The last couple
of weeks are hard because you're justnot quite there. But now that it's
right here and we're deep in itevery you know, you're you can really
(01:52):
start to enjoy it and embrace it. Well, you know, I think
back to four years ago the JoeBurrow Draft, which you know, the
second part of the process, playit out against the pandemic. But we
joked on this show like we havesome we have certain boxes we have to
check. Okay, so one ofthe boxes is, well, should they
trade the pick? Right, weknow they're not gonna and we want them
(02:14):
to take Joe Burrow, but wewe have to we have to check that
box. And then the other boxwould be like, are we sure it's
not Tua, Are we sure it'snot justin Herbert? Are we sure it's
not Chase young And we spent especiallyonce the pandemic got here, and we
just had like large swaths of timeand nothing else really going on, so
we had to do the obligatory likehours of well, you know, maybe
(02:35):
maybe it makes sense to draft ChaseYounger. Wow. I still to this
day can't believe that it was apart of the program. I remember it
had to be yes, So Iget it. There are certain boxes that
you just have to check. Andthen at the end of it all,
we just kind of circled back toOkay, they're taking Burrow and it's gonna
be awesome. I was listening toDan Patrick the other day and Mike Florio
(02:59):
was on the are still suggesting thatthe Bengals should have traded out of number
one to the Dolphins? Say,yeah, they just got lucky that that
Burrow thing worked out. You canstill argue should have probably traded with Miami.
He's like, May, we're stillnot letting that go unbelievable. Still
there still still out there. Allright, before we get into some draft
(03:21):
nuts and bolts, let's talk abouttoday's news. Yes, singles, do
Jake Browning a solid? Yeah?I mean you earned it right, Yes,
he was kind of We talked abouthow he was just stuck. Yeah,
because he's the exclusive rights free agent. He has exclusive rights, should
be called no rights free agent.You're just this is the if they want
to pay you, this is whatyou're gonna make. And he earned more
than that. And so yeah,they do a ma solid and they give
(03:45):
themselves security there two years mat that'swhere it was gonna end up anyway with
him, And so I mean,how do you not love their quarterback room?
Right now? On top of youhave Burrow, So you know you
have an elite guy at number one, but you have somebody behind him that
fits well, that has proven himself. So something happens, maybe it won't
be like last year, and you'rescared to death to send him out there
(04:06):
to play against the Rams and said, send a hobble Joe Burrow out there
in week three because you're worried thatthis his backup can't win you a game.
Now, you know, everybody believesand we talked about this with Brandon
Allen in the beginning was when hehad a couple of really good games.
As long as the people around himon offense believe that he can go win
(04:27):
you a game. And it's nota feeling of dread when you take the
field. You need that that isimportant. That's the feeling you want.
You're not necessarily you want. Youwant whatever whoever your backup quarterback comes from,
he comes from. You just wantthe feeling and the rest of the
players when they go out there.Even though we have our starter today,
we got a chance. Jake Browninggave you that. He's every everybody loves
(04:48):
him. This was that was kindof a good, any uneasy, no
brainer and easy thing to do.You can function and do even more than
just function with Jake Browning. It'sit's it's the greatest insurance. Paul.
Ever, here's a guy that hashad some success in our system, feels
like he's going to be prepared.Do I want him to play six seven,
eight games? No? But Ialways look at the backup quarterback to
(05:09):
the simple lens of Joe, go'sin a concussion protocol and the other guy's
got to play a half and it'sseventeen all and you got to figure out
a way to win the game.Can he do that for you? The
answer is yes. Yeah, it'sa great feeling to have Joe likes him.
He has proven he will be readyand be a gamer at all times.
I mean that's kind of just hismentality that we learned about last year.
(05:30):
So yeah, I think everything everythingthat you let that you look for
in a backup quarterback, Jake Browninghas and they do him a little bit
a solid by giv him a littleextra money and security and he earned that.
Uh. They also bring back Loganwoods Yeah, let's go. So
if you would have said to meon the Saturday night of the twenty eighteen
draft, the last draft of theMarvin Lewis regime, that there would be
(05:56):
uh free active players in the NFLfrom that draft, I would have thought,
Okay, well, Billy Price isa chance to you know, stick
right, and Jesse Bates and thenSam Hubbard okay, and then who else
Logan wood Side. Yes, ifyou would have told me that when it
was during it was either OTAs orcamp he got popped. No, it
(06:19):
was around that time when they justhad him out there as like scout team
safety and he had chains around hisneck. I was like, well,
that doesn't bode well for his NFLfuture, But yet he matured here and
here he is. He's he's beencollecting checks in the NFL. Good for
Logan wood Side. Anybody should hopeto have his NFL career at this point.
(06:40):
Amazing. Yeah, he's still playingin the NFL in twenty twenty four,
outlasted Billy Price. He played ina game last year for the Atlanta
Falcons. Good for him, man, good for Logan Woodside. That's that's
one of the See that's the partof the draft that I like. I
like it when yeah, sort ofbig Day three guy, well not really
a big Day three guy, butI like when Logan Woodside gott in a
(07:00):
game for the Falcons last year.I don't know how I found that out,
but I said, is that thesame guy from Toledo the Bengals drafted?
And then it was like, yes, wait a minute, he's still
playing football in the NFL. Amazingand getting checks and gotten a game.
Yes, he's back it's great.It's great. What a wonderful world.
(07:23):
Of the many things that you takepart in. I enjoy the AFC North
whip around, you do? Ido? I like the whip around because
it's a chance to kind of checkin with what's happening with the other teams
in the AFC North for those whodon't know, and you should because you
should be subscribing to a Paul's workingin the Athletic. But Paul and the
other three beat writers who cover AFCNorth teams will tackle, you know,
(07:45):
various topics throughout the course of theweek. There's one of them I wanted
to talk about with you, allright, what's that? So you were
asked to outline. You and theother three guys were as to outline best
and worst case scenarios. Best andworst case scenarios for the BENGALSS case for
the Bengals, as you documented,was best case would be at least four
(08:05):
quarterbacks, multiple corners, a surprisereceiver, and a couple of edge rushers
come off in front of them,leaving at least one of Latham JC Latham
tell Esfuaga Fuatano or Byron Murphy thesecond to pick that's best case. Yeah,
I think so that's best case.Yeah, guys at the positions that
they want most, that fit them. Yeah, if best case ends up
(08:26):
being reality, who among those fourguys would they pick. I have planted
my flag on Byron Murphy for along time now. H I wrote a
whole story how he's basically my guy. Like, I don't claim that.
I just think he can have themost effect on this team winning of anybody,
(08:48):
just because that position is so rare, the value is so high.
It's such a scarcity there that tome, that would be the direction that
I would go. And I wouldstart trying to figure out tackle because you
do have Trent Brown and is hegonna play a full season? I mean,
you certainly aren't counting on that.But like I, they have found
(09:09):
answers at tackle, and you canspend a second or third round pick and
say, hey, by week whatever, if an injury occurs, this guy
could be ready. You know,a second round pick could be ready to
come in and play. That's justthat. If you're talking about the trade
off on that, what you're givingup is you could have an elite three
(09:30):
technique, which is something the entireleague is dying to find So that to
me would be my answer on that, what will they do? They know
what they would do. I mean, I've heard, we've heard a lot
of talk about how they are inthese meetings now and they're ongoing. And
if you don't believe that stacking theboard across positions with things like the question
you just asked, are what they'vebeen sitting around over the last week,
(09:52):
making sure that everyone's comfortable with andyour creat That's what's happening. So what
will they do? We'll find outif that happens. I I just think
I think what they have needed andwanted is there in Murphy potentially if he
was there. I don't think hewill be there. But I think one
of the tackles, you know,you're you're happy with all your with all
of them, all right. Iwant to stay on the position that Byron
(10:15):
Murphy, the place Byron Murphy playsByron Murphy, the plays what Byron Murphy?
The second place we'll do that thisis live radio. Yeah, so
when I make mistakes there it isyou just do it? Makes you human?
Sure? That's it? Yes?Makes me human? Yes? Accessible?
Accessible? Yes? Sure. PaulDanner Juniors here the Athletic dot Com,
The Growler Podcast, and I wantto talk about your live podcast one
(10:37):
week from tonight. We'll get tothat when we come back. He is
here until four o'clock. We arehere till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. It's three twenty.This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger,
Paul Danner Juniors, here at theAthletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast,
the Mega Mock Draft Special which PaulJmore, Butch Hobson, James Rapine Mock
(11:01):
Draft. Yeah, I will admitto you that I am midway through.
That's good. I mean, youknow it gets only gets better. Yeah,
you go, It's it's fun.Speaking of the podcast, love that
exercise. Yeah, speaking of thepodcast, you have a live post draft
podcast, yeah, from tonight.I am so excited about this. So
we've partnered with uh at MGM Sportsbookand Nation Kitchen at the Banks down there,
(11:28):
which if you have you've if you'vebeen to a Reds game, you've
seen it's right down right down thereacross from JVP. The space is awesome,
it's perfect for what we wanted todo, and and they've just been
a great partner to be in withhere and so we're gonna be down there
seven o'clock Tuesday, April thirtieth.It's Bengals College Scouting director Mike Potts,
who spoke today the Press convers isgonna be there to when we'll break down
(11:50):
all the picks we've done. I'vedone this every year. It's one of
my favorite things that we are ableto do because these guys have a year's
worth of insight and stories and pathto every pick. There's so much nuance
to everything to really unpack, andMike is the perfect person to do.
And we'll invite a bunch of otherscouts who have hopped on with us in
the past and go down there.We'll talk through that well food and drinks.
(12:13):
Of course, Nation just crushes ifthey have so much good food and
you come down listen, dude,we'll do draft talk and then of course
we'll myself and Jay and March willbe down there. We'll be hanging out
having drinks afterwards talking If you guyswant to catch anybody want to catch up,
then So seven o'clock next Tuesday,Mike Potts will be our guest,
(12:33):
but we'll do a full live growlerdown there. This will be fun because
Tuesday, right seven o'clock your podcast, Mark will be there. Yeah,
I'm gonna come down. It's alsogame five if necessary, Nick Sixers.
Yeah. Mark's a big Knicks fan. Yeah, I'm a big Knicks.
We'll get you guys a screen Ithink we can get you guys a screen
over. So yeah, I mean, it could be fun. It could
(12:56):
be very fun. I'm just sayingit could be big. Put them away
if necessary, if necessary necessary,probably won't, probably won't be. If
necessary, it'll be over. Butno, it's gonna be great. So
Eric, come on down seven o'clocka week from tonight. I listened to
Zach Taylor yesterday and I listened toMike Potts. Mike Potts understandably was not
(13:16):
nearly as revealing as he will bewhen he joins you. But I did
enjoy listening to Zach a little bityesterday, just talking about the process because
me as I'm into the draft andI'm into who they take, but I'm
really I think it'd just be socool to really be pulled back into the
room to just watch how Draft Nightitself plays out. And I thought,
(13:37):
Zach, maybe a little bit moreso than he has been since he arrived.
Was kind of interesting just talking abouthow the sausage is made during the
draft. Yeah, I mean,I think it's fascinating because I mean,
teams do do things differently, andthe Bengals are built a little bit differently,
but you know they when you whenyou get into that room, it's
(14:00):
mostly done. There's especially on Thursdaynight, there's really I think there's this
idea that there's action. It's incrediblyThursday Night's incredibly boring in there because if
there's anything that they have done andput to bed, it's the order of
what's going to happen in round one, like one through eighteen, and really
the same for up to forty.You get way more action on day two
(14:20):
because you get a lot more tradesare involved a whole day. Teams have
recalibrated their boards and things have changed, but Day one has been so structured.
You know where you would trade to, you know who you would talk
to. You probably have things setin place. If you're gonna move,
you know who you're gonna take,and what that order is. If it
gets to that, so it becomesalmost like, Okay, get this out
of the way I would want tobe in there on Day two. That
(14:43):
is the most action pack day.Everybody has needs that they're trying to fill,
things that they're reacting to. Everybody'strying to move. That to me
is the day that is the ultimatewhere you know, that's where you win
and loose in this league is accomplishingyour goals with those Friday picks. And
I think that will be how thisdraft will absolutely be judged for the Bengals
(15:07):
this year, just because of theway they're set up, the extra pick,
their ability to move up and downif they want to, and their
needs that they have at very importantpositions. I think that is the most
fascinating day and we'll see how theyhandle it. We talked about Byron Murphy
and what they would do if he'sthere at eighteen and sign me up for
taking him fills an obvious need.Why don't I feel very good about what
(15:33):
they could do a defensive tackle laterin the draft if he's not there,
Well, because there isn't any Imean there's not. There's not a ton
of players that no one's really gonnabring you that that's why those guys go
there. Yeah, have we talkedso much about Byron Murphy that we make
the other guys seem like they justtotally suck. No, I don't think
(15:54):
they any I don't think it doso, I think it's close. I
don't know that he is at thetop of their board. I mean,
I'm just a lot of people likeNewton More. Yeah, some people like
and that's fine. I just youknow, that's great. I mean you
can get He's he will bring youall the pass rush you want to.
I mean, that's that's what you'relooking for. There's not as much of
the other stuff there as Murphy givesyou a little more versatility, a little
(16:15):
more against the run, but youknow, pass rushing from inside is as
valuable as it gets. So II think you can accomplish. They have
put themselves into a position a littlebit where yeah, you're not you're not
gonna get what you want after that, there's because there's that's where those guys
go. I think they can pieceit together after that. I think there's
(16:38):
plenty of guys that that could comein here, but there's just not a
lot of history in this league ofplayers coming from. Where the Bengals will
pick in round two around three andcoming in and having big time impact,
and they kind of need some impactsthey put They put themselves in this spot,
and that's why that feeling exist.My question was not so much about
(17:02):
the lack of talent, for lackof a better way of putting it.
After Byron Murphy, it's the positionthe Bengals are in and what they've done
to themselves specifically at that spot.Yeah, I think they would. You
don't ever want to feel like youhave an obvious need, and I think
that they've done some certainly too.It doesn't feel that way. I mean
(17:22):
with Rankins and Hilly, they needbodies, but it doesn't feel like they
are just a disaster there. Butthey need pieces. I mean, they
need more in there, and theyneed it for this year and they need
it for the future. You don'tever want to have even that feeling.
But that doesn't mean, you know, there's plenty of players that they could
(17:44):
sit here and grab Chris Jenkins atforty nine and everyone will by the time
they pick and the fourth round,everyone will already be sold that he's the
answer and that was the best thingthat could have happened. Yeah, or
any number of these guys that dohave potential that you would take in the
second round, and they're part ofa rotation and you can find a way
to make it work, and thenthey'll take another one on day three that
can come in and be the newJosh Tupo and you can see how it
(18:07):
all fits together. Is that gonnabe enough to slow down Travis Henry or
I'm sorry, Derek Henry. DerekTravis Henry school reference like that, Dereck
Henry, Sure job. I thinkI mean, I don't think you have
Baltimore this overall running game. Yeah, okay, I mean I maybe I
think you don't have You don't haveto have DJ reader to stop the run.
(18:30):
You know, you can find otherways to do it. Lou Anumo
will be in charge of scheming thatup. They had DJ reader last year
and they didn't stop the run verywell. I don't disagree with that.
I think that's partially on lou AnaRumo's lap. Is you got to figure
out how to do this? Isthere a new way that you've got to
(18:51):
construct it? What is that runfits always comes back to run fits?
Isn't it run fit practice? Canwe put you You've often talked about jobs
that you would like to hold atthe Bengals. Could we make you like
director of run fits and just haveyou run drills helping everyone with their run
fits? Like is that? CanI make this? Can we find a
(19:12):
way to produce this? Maybe?But I just I have you know,
we were talking about like nightmare scenarios. Mine is we get to like five
or six weeks in and they're gettingbeaten up upfront and teams are running up
and down against them, and Igotta listen to analysts talk about run fits.
Yeah, it's coming. Whenever I'mhearing somebody talk about run fits,
(19:33):
First of all, I get reallybored very quickly. Second, nobody ever
talks about run fits when they're stoppingthe run, right, not a lot
of runfit columns being written when they'restopping the run. Yeah. I haven't
gotten a whole lot of clicks onmy gap discipline story, you know.
So I if we get to Octoberand you and I are talking about run
fits, I'm gonna go back tothe draft in the entire offseason and Goo
(19:56):
could have fixed it. To havefixed it, no, I I've said
it a bunch of time. Ithink it's the one criticism of how free
agency unfolded with them is that theydidn't have one more guy in there that
feels solid, disserviceable right to kindof be in that mix. And and
we'll see if they can find away to get this in this draft.
But I mean, that's what's infront of them. That's why it's important.
That's why day two is important.If they don't get that on day
(20:18):
one, is they got a pinpointthat and find it all right, I
want to explore a long shot possibilityand your individual nightmare scenario. Okay,
Plus i'd like your thoughts on BillTobin. Yeah, we'll do three thirty
Paul Danner Junior. By the way, Taren, we're trying to have the
perfect show today, two for two, hitting the brake on time. Um
the way, he's Paul Danner Junior. We're aiming for a perfect show today.
(20:42):
It can happen, No, itcan't. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station Sincy three sixty withTony Pike. If we want to move
on dot to keep going and BostonElmore, I think you should continue.
Let me keep going there Sincy threesixty Tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN fifteen
thirty. Cincinnati's espnes are a serviceof Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime powertrain
(21:07):
protection and guaranteed credit approval from theirfamily to yours for life, kelseychev dot
Com. Game two of four withthe Phillies tonight at GAVP. Red's trying
to bounce back after getting shut outin two hit last night. Andrew Abbott,
Well, I'll get the ball forCincinnati, Paul in the quick Hits
segment that I do with Tony andAustin, I was asked if I would
get your thoughts on tonight's Red startinglineup. All right, let's go.
(21:32):
Stu Fairchild leading off. Well,that's not a great start. Spencer Steers
and left. Stevenson is catching Candelario'splaying third, batting fourth, ces at
first, Ellie is betting sixth againplaying short stop. Nick Martini providing protection
for Ellie in the seven hole.Santiago Espinal, who might be the worst
offensive player the Reds have ever had, Well, come on playing second base.
(21:57):
I mean, that's how bad heis playing. And he'll get four
hits tonight playing second base and bettingeighth. And then Will Benson in right
field, batting ninth you know,wasn't Stevenson just hitting ninth like a week
ago? Weren't we? I meanI feel like, yes, and now
we've moved to this he was youread him third there? Correct? Yes,
(22:21):
Yeah, we just it's fine.I don't mind Matt Messmith Ellie.
Here's the thing, like it's likeit's like, okay, don't touch anything.
It's working, okay, Like nobodynobody getting near him, don't look
at him, don't change the spotin the buying order like it's working.
Just let it keep going. SoI feel like that's I'm okay with that
(22:41):
with just leave him there. Youcould put somebody a little bit better behind
him. I get it, butI don't. I don't the rest of
it though. We're trying too hard, aren't we. Yes. I go
back to one of the one ofthe best and then eventually worse things about
Dusty Baker was he really believed inguys feeling comfortable every day coming in,
(23:03):
knowing exactly where that was going tobe and where they were gonna hit.
Yes, and gave people long runsof doing the exact same thing in the
exact same spot every single day off, sometimes to his detriment. Later in
the season, but players really appreciatedthat. Players really like they feel comfortable
coming to the ballpark every day.It means something. I think today's player
(23:26):
is very much used to moving allaround more so, much more so.
Yeah, and so that's not asbig a deal as maybe it was in
the time that we're talking about.But I don't think it's under I still
think it's a deal. I stillthink it's a thing where you do want
to be leaning into comfort more often. I'm not a manager, I'm not
here too. I think eventually youeither got players that can hitter you don't.
(23:48):
It doesn't really make that big ofa difference. But I do like
comfort when possible, and there isalways so much movement. The one thing
I remember most about Dusty Baker's lineups, it didn't matter who it was.
The center fielder was batting lead off. Drew Stubs, Drew Stubbs, Willie
Taveres, Corey Patterson shouldn't suit Choo. I mean, it just it did
not matter, didn't matter the centerJerry Harriston, the center fielder was hitting
(24:11):
lead off. Yeah, you thinkhe's always just had the position written down
and it just didn't really matter.Yeah, that's great. I love that
idea. Yeah, I could godown Old Red's lineup wormholes with you.
But the drafts in two days.Is there any scenario where the Bengals draft
a wide receiver in round one?Yeah, a trade back? I think
(24:40):
if you traded back, if they, if they, if you know,
something happens and the guys they like, and you're sitting there looking at the
corners. I was talking with thissomebody today. You know, the Eagles
are known for moving up in roundone, and Howie Roseman that's just kind
of hit his thing, right,they need corners. If one of those
corners is sitting there because the roundtackles happened, I could I could see
(25:00):
him calling the Bengals about moving Youmove back to twenty two. Okay,
now you're thinking a different You probablyare hoping to get somebody, but maybe
that person doesn't get to you.Move back one more time. Now the
receivers are in play. Now you'retalking about a lot of guys, whether
you're talking about Lad McConkie or AdyMitchell or whoever you like. I think
McConkie would be a dream fit forthem. That conversation only happens then I
(25:25):
don't see any of the other receiversbeing even tempting for them at eighteen.
I just don't see. I don'tbelieve that to be the case. But
I think if you move back andyou gained a bunch of picks as part
of the payoff there, you couldmake a real argument for a receiver at
that point. But I think that'sthe only scenario, and that's obviously slim.
(25:47):
Is your personal nightmare scenario on Thursdaynight, brock Bauers being there at
eighteen. No, No, Idon't. I don't care. I'm not.
I don't know why I'm painted asthis, Like Hugh Anti, he
(26:07):
may be fine. I just don'tbelieve that that's the direction that you should
go with a first round pick.No matter, just seen enough of this.
You're just trying to set me upto do another Bowers rant. I
am because do we need? Can'tyou just play the last ones? Because
it's not to me. It's it'snot about Bowers. It's about not It's
about what you're going to have toput up with if Bowers is there and
(26:32):
they don't take him, and thenhe goes to Pittsburgh, yes or wherever?
Correct, Pittsburgh obviously nine catches againstthe bank, he's he's Sam Laporta,
and we end up doing this wholething again. I get it.
Yeah, that's fine. I don't. I don't. I'm I'm willing to
eat that because there's also a chancehe'll be any of the other tight ends
(26:52):
that have been drafted in the firstround over the last decade that have not
been anywhere close to or definitely haven'tbeen the best tight end in their class.
That's that's all. Do you haveif that's not your own personal nightmare
scenario? Do you have one?They trade back and add ten seventh round
(27:14):
picks to keep me there as lateas possible in the Saturday night and steal
the best drink of the year fromme, which is Saturday night after the
draft, file the last story andpodcast and sit down and top shelf bourbon.
That's your favorite one? I thoughtthe entire year, I work in
(27:36):
a normal just strictly talking like thatcircumstance. I mean, I've heard you
and Jay talk about this. Ialways thought it was after the last preseason
game, but it's it's absolutely okay. So much work in front of us
at that point. This is likethe end of our this is schools out
for summer. I mean, thisis the end of a hard run,
okay, and that it tastes nothingtastes quite as good as a Saturday night
(27:56):
drink. Nothing very good. Imean, we could do a beer debate
like vacation beers and long beers,and from my point of view, it's
hard to topple, hard to topplethat one. I gotta think what mine
would be? What would yours be? Um, well, after the Knicks
(28:17):
win the next champion, that's apersonal thing. I'm like in a professional
setting. H Well, let methink about that. Think about it,
okay, and we can come backto it. We will. It is,
uh, sixteen minutes away from fouro'clock so far, I don't want
to jinx it. This is likecelebrating a no hitter in the third inning,
but three for three en route tohopefully a perfect show. Yeah,
(28:41):
you know what. Perfect show isnot about performance. It's not about having
opinions that are proven to be trueor not stumbling over yourself. Perfect show
is hitting all the breaks on time. Everybody has to show up, yep,
And you got to hit all thebreaks on times, right, So
I showed up Terrence here, you'rehere, You've hit all the breaks on
time. There you go. That'sa good start. We decided yesterday that
(29:02):
we're gonna take a stab at executinga perfect show. Do we have to
like break into other programming on otherstations to be like alert? Moeger is
two thirds of the way perfect showprogress per show in progress. Don't go
in there and talk to him orlook at him. Perfect show alert?
Yeah, you need that. Itis quarter to four. He's Paul Danner
(29:22):
Junior Live podcast. The Growler Podcasta week from tonight at Nation and bet
MGM at the Banks starts at seveno'clock. Go see, Paul. I'm
gonna come by. We need youthere, need me there by any stretch
of the imagination there sure, justfor comic relief. To want my draft
grades? Is that what you're gonnawant? I want you to show up
(29:45):
and criticize Mike Potts on their picks. I will be like, I cannot
believe, yes, but you knowhow bad they are at run fits.
Where do you get off taking thisguy? It's a quarter to four.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sportsstation and away from four o'clock. Paul
Dayner Junior, Theathletic dot Com andthe host of the Growler podcast What Shall
(30:07):
Be Done Live at BEDMGM and Nationa week from tonight. Mike Potts will
be there. Yes, director ofCollege can Yeah, it's gonna be awesome,
he said today. Specifically, youknow, I'm close to the vest.
I'm not gonna say anything. Ican have much more detailed conversations about
all this after the draft, andI thought, oh, well that's convenient.
Then I'm glad we're gonna have youthere. It's gonna be the perfect
(30:30):
opportunity to do it, so we'llopen up the box on it. Uh.
Detroit is hosting the NFL Draft thisyear. Yeah, I don't know
when. Okay, I know where. You know where I'm going. I
mean, I have to have youcan go down to. They want to
host it. Uh, Yes,they've been trying to for a long time.
(30:51):
The lack of facilities in the cityhave gotten in the way. Okay,
hotel rooms, all that stuff.We're trying. Yeah. I think
once the All Star Game went sowell, I thought that it was gonna
be and then the NFL Draft startedmoving. But I just I think that
there are there's a lot going onthere, you know, I just feel
like them. I feel like theBengals don't get as much attention and love
(31:14):
and respect from the NFL offices often, no doubt, and Cincinnati isn't like
of course Detroit isn't. But Ijust I think there's something in the way
there, because how are they noteven in the conversation on some of this
stuff? I mean, what arewe doing here? We're gonna go to
Green Bay, You're gonna go toI mean, so it should be happening.
(31:34):
But I do think that the cityneeds to have be more prepared for
a big event like that than theycurrently are in the eyes of the NFL.
Gotcha, Yeah, Duke Tobin's fatherpassed away. Yeah, Bill Tobin.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who know the name but really
didn't know that for much of thelast twenty years, a figure with his
(31:56):
NFL life, with his football life, was working for the Bengals on a
I thought it was cool that Zachyesterday talked about his his small role but
still his role in sort of signingoff on Evan McPherson in the What a
great story because Kevin Butler was therookie kicker, I mean people free.
He basically built the eighty five Bears. I mean, like yes, you
know, and it talked about takingKevin Butler and that being a big part
(32:19):
of going to the Super Bowl.He was, of course there for a
rejuvenation of Indianapolis in the nineties andhas been more behind the scenes here with
with Duke and Cincinnati. But Imean just the amount of institutional knowledge and
instinct that that they had to beable to tap into here over the last
couple of decades, just in Cincinnati, not even you know, is that's
(32:42):
so valuable When you get to thosespots, right you're like, should we
And it's like, well, letme tell you how this worked out,
and you know where you've just seenit and you've been through all of that
stuff. And I remember, youknow, last year right at this time,
actually I wrote a big feature onDuke sort of like kind of he's
such an anonymous exec and and andwas, you know, maybe the best
(33:06):
executive that nobody knew. And hetold me in that piece he said,
you know, I my I thinkmy father, I'm you know, I'm
biased. I think my father isthe best scout this league has ever seen.
In my opinion, and I thinkhe is viewed through that lens like
he just had an unbelievable skill forthat. And I think his the genuineness
(33:30):
that he had is what helped himestablish that. And you see that in
Duke Tobin if you're familiar with Imean, just the down, down to
earth, genuine nature of that family. And you know, I had few
interactions with Bill, but you knowit's it's notable, and you hear that
from everyone, and so it's tough. Man Like, I can't imagine this
(33:52):
right now, going going through this, you know this has been going on,
so going through this, during thiswhole process and now, I mean,
anybody that's ever lost somebody, aparent knows exactly how hard that entire
process is and how much it weighsyou down. So I can only imagine
how you know, hard this season, this draft season has been for Duke.
(34:15):
I'll see you next Tuesday here andthen and then we can go.
You can even carpool with me ifyou want. We could go down together.
Oh, you have to finish theshow. You want to stay here
at all? Six, I don'there, welcome to I really don't want
to. Sure, I know I'vegot stuff to I gotta make sure.
We have to get down there andset everything up. All right, You're
ready to go. It's the perfectshows up for grabs here. Oh see
you next week. Goodbye. FiveAway From for ESPN fifteen thirty. This
(34:37):
report is sponsored
Mo Egger News
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