February 23, 2024 • 53 mins
Kelly and Chip welcome author of This Is So Awkward and host of Spilling the Pubertea, Vanessa Kroll Bennett, to talk about how to have the tough conversations with our youth about their bodies and sex. According to Vanessa, the conversation starts way earlier than you would think. She gives tips and examples on practice convos and also discusses what our current systems miss when it comes to sex education. Vanessa also leads workshops with pre-teens and teens educating them on their bodies, sex and more.
Socials: @vanessakrollbennett
Book: This Is So Awkward
Podcast: Spilling the Pubertea
Follow Kelly: @velvetsedge
Follow Chip: @chipdorsch
Email: theedge@velvetsedge.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Vanessa crl be Minette is here with us. She is
the author of This Is So Awkward and podcast host
of Spilling the Pubert That is such a clever.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Banta credit. I can't.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
My co host Kara and Anderson came up with spelling
the pubertea and she loves a pun. And if it's
a puberty pun, forget it. She's all over it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Anything better than a puberty pun.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So the podcast we call it the Puberty Podcast because
it's an alliteration, and we couldn't help ourselves. And someone
was like, are you going to do like the porn,
penis and puberty podcast, And I was like, no, We're
going to keep it simple, yeah, And Spilling the pubert
Tea is our is our Instagram handle and our TikTok
(00:48):
handle where we talk about everything you can possibly imagine
having to do with tweens and teens and SEXI and
all of it, which.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Is like such a distant memory too, and like such
a it was such a big part of life, but
in the rear view it didn't like I don't have
much of a memory of it, so it's kind of
exciting to sort of relive it right now.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We're going to bring it all back. Don't you worry.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh my god, we're going. I can feel like a
ZiT coming through. Well, this is exactly why you are
here today. I was telling you before the podcast that
Chip and I have been having these conversations over the
last month just about kind of what America gets wrong
with sex, right, and we could not not talk about
(01:40):
the fact that it starts when you're really young, Like
we just read the education at all about sex. And
so a friend of ours turned us on to your
your business because she had talked to you about possibly
coming to Nashville to do a workshop with her daughter
and their friends just about puberty and about actually having
these conversations to edge gate the kids. And that was
(02:01):
another thing we talked about, like where are they supposed
to learn this? So that's right, tell us about the
business before we get to anything else, because I want
the listeners to kind of have a foundation of what
it is that you do.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So we basically do everything you can possibly think of.
We're relating to puberty, educating kids, adults, teachers, grandparents, aunts, uncles,
anyone who's involved in caring for kids between eight and
eighteen and beyond. We have resources, so we wrote the
(02:36):
book this is so Awkward. We have the Puberty Podcast.
We just launched a health and sex ed curriculum called
that Health Class that should be in Italics, which we're
now licensing to schools across the country because this is
not an easy topic and it's not a quick fix,
(02:57):
And we're actually going to be launching a parent portal
in the next couple of months to give parents all
of the information they need to have these tricky conversations.
And it's not just the kids who didn't get the education,
the parents themselves never had it, and it's they're faults, right, Like,
(03:22):
we grew up in an era. I mean, you guys
are younger than I am, but I'll just say we
where you didn't get you got like an hour sometime
in April or May to talk about sex. Ye, And
if you didn't have a family where like everything gets
talked about. I grew up in a family where everything
(03:43):
got talked about.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And we can explore that later. Possession, Where were you
going to get the information?
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Your friends, your peers when you're like a teen are
not reliable sources of information. I mean, I had the books,
where did I come from and what's happening to me.
I don't know if you guys had any of those books.
I got no education for you got we got a
lot of work to do. We don't have a lot
of time, but we're gonna get a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
In time.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And then Kara, my co host and co author, wrote
The American Girl Karen Keeping of You books, which are
really gentle, really lovely introductions to puberty for girls. And
then she wrote Guy Stuff for boys. So those are
incredible resources, but one book doesn't answer the like millions
(04:38):
of questions that people have about growing up and changing
bodies and later sex and love and all of those things.
So yeah, that's what we're here for.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Well, I think it's touched on such a good topic
to say that, like our parents can't give us anything,
they didn't get either, you know, and so if it
wasn't started generations back in your family, it's probably just
been repeated over and over. And I know my parents
had me at twenty five, like you know, they were
so much younger then we do it nowadays. But also
(05:09):
when I was prepping for this podcast, it dawned on me,
I'm like sex and everything that teenagers are going through
now is so completely different than when I was a kid.
It wouldn't matter if I had all the education in
the world. You've still got a lot to.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Learn, totally.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I mean, it's incredible. One of the things we talk
a lot about is not bringing your baggage into the conversations,
so like part of it could be, Oh, I know just.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
How you feel.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I had my heart broken when I was your age,
and I cried myself to sleep for a year. And
now sometimes when your dad's asleep, I still sobbed silently
into my pillow. So don't worry, honey, It'll all be fine.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Actually, I'm like, can you imagine a teenager hearing that, really.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
What from their mom?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Ye?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Shut up?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Like right, And it's like, I don't need your crap,
Like I am going through this is hard enough for me.
I don't need you to like dump your stuff all
over me. And so part of the like the first
thing you need to do when you're gonna have conversations
with kids, and this is everybody. This isn't just parents, right,
this is grandparents, aunts, uncles, mentors. There's so many adults
(06:24):
in kids' lives, particularly around this age, who can have
an incredible impact on kids who are not their parents,
because kids often like don't want to talk to their
parents or don't want to hear the advice their parents have.
And so you guys are the perfect example. You're like
the cool am and uncle who can give good advice.
(06:44):
But we all have to leave our baggage at the door.
We cannot bring it in, We cannot dump it all
over kids, because Kelly, to your point, the.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
World is so different. We don't know how they feel.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We didn't grow up with social media, we didn't grow
up with like Netflix streaming and thirteen Reasons Why, and
like all of the content they consume, and you know
Andrew Tate, and like all of the influences they have
in their lives. And so we have to just let
them be the experts in their lives because it's totally
(07:16):
different than.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It was when we were growing up. But how does
that work?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So they're obviously kids, so how could they be experts?
You know, Like, where do you even know how to
start with this stuff?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay, so you start from the beginning. So for those
of you listening who have like little kids in your lives, right,
toddlers even infants, you may be listening to this podcast
and you're changing your baby on the changing table and
you're like opening up the diaper and you're not going
to say to your infant, oh.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Look at your little peepee, isn't it cute?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Or look at your little pocket book? Isn't it cute? Right,
because I'm not making up a book. Is a nickname
I've heard for a volva?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yes, yes, pocab I've never heard that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I mean there, it's incredible the creativity people will have
to come up with words that are not the anatomically
correct words for body parts.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
But here's the kicker.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
So you're staring at your baby on the changing table, right,
and you're like, oh god, I've never said this word
before in my entire life. But you're like, okay, I'm
going to clean your penis and you're like art is
pumping and like it feels like it's going to jump
out of your chest, or like, okay, you know, like
you're gonna make a wee weie and you're you know,
the pea comes out of your urethra.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Did you know that?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Okay, fine, you're freaking out, Except we have to use
anatomically correct language for body parts because the research unequivocally
shows us that children who knew the names of their
genitals and all of their body parts are safer from
sexual predators than children who don't.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Why Why is that?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Because an adult who is I mean, I hate to
use this phrase, but grooming a child who realizes that
that child has an adult in their life who talks
to them about their body parts and who is in
conversation with them about their privacy, about safe touch and
unsafe touch, will realize this is not a.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Kid who I can groom.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Wow, someone is talking to this kid about their full
human existence and their whole body and this is not
a kid that I can groom.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So for no other reason, anyone listening is like, oh,
I cannot possibly use those words. Use those words. It
will keep your kid safer. So it acts I guess
it about those words. It makes it so hard to say,
Like for me, it's easier to.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Say really because that can just pocketbook.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I definitely wouldn't feel much more calling it a pocket box.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh loves to talk about vaginas that we talk about.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
This a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So and the other thing like here's for example, a
lot of people don't know the difference between a vagina
and a volva. Right, So the volva is the eternal anatomy. Right,
it's the labia majora, the labia manora, the opening to
the vagina, and the clitteriss. And here's what's fascinating is
nobody tells girls that they have a clitterists, and nobody
(10:35):
tells girls that the only job of the clitterists is
that it feels good when it's touched. I mean, we
have done workshops where there are forty and fifty year
olds in the room who are like, I never knew that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
What one told me that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I hope my mom's never been told that I'd put
money on it that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Okay, See, I guess because just nowadays, because of porn
and all the conversation happening around sex, it seems so
obvious to me. But I guess if you were an
older generation, like older than them, maybe they just didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
No, And and people aren't telling girls and it's like
girls going through life. Yeah, because here's the difference. For boys,
the penis is both about reproduction and about pleasure. Right,
So they talk about the penis because if at baseline,
if if the kid is being taught about reproduction, they
(11:36):
have to talk about the penis, whereas for girls, if
you're only talking about reproduction, you really only have to
talk about the vagina and then the uterus and the
fallopian tubes and the ovaries. But you don't have to
talk about a clitteris if the only purpose is to
talk about reproduction. And so I think that can is
like a little bit the source of the inequity. I mean,
(11:57):
there's also like all sorts of inequity, but between how
people talk about boys having sex and girls having sex,
but I do think that's part of it. It's like
you can skip over it and still talk about reproduction.
And it's really important for girls to know. It's also
important for them to know about their vulvs because that's
a place that needs to be kept clean in a
(12:18):
really gentle and safe way. And they won't necessarily intuitively
know how to take care of that part of their
body if someone's not teaching them and teaching them the
different parts of that body. And so it's also about
it's not just about pleasure, it's about self care. It's
about going to the doctor and having a pain or
(12:42):
a sting or a rash and being able to say
exactly where that difficulty is. If no one teaches you
the names, you're kind of just like down there. But
the more in my pocket book, in my pocket book,
in the side pilot of my pocket book. Wait in Nashville,
do you guys say purse or pocketbook? Perse I thought,
(13:05):
I was like, I'm talking to a purse group.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I'm not talking to my mom's say my mom said pocketbook,
pocket book.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It wasn't about her down blow because your mom didn't
talk about her.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Down so you don't even know your mom had a down.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's a Barbie part, Barbie.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Solid.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So it really starts as soon as we are born,
as soon as we're digesting words with just talking about
our body parts. That's such a good tip. I did
not even think about that. But the predators like, obviously
if you know the actual names of your body parts,
they also know conversation is open in that home exactly,
and what's probably framing it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, And the other thing you can start when you
have little kids, like kids in preschool, Yeah, are conversations
about consent. So one of the things that happens in
our culture is we start talking about consent when like
kids are getting ready to have sex or you know,
I shouldn't say kids teens and young adults are getting
ready to have sex. But the truth is you can
(14:06):
talk about consent when it has nothing to do with sex,
right Like can I braid your hair? Can I sit
on your lap? Can I stand next to you in line?
Can I have a bite of your sandwich? There's a
million ways that we can teach kids to ask for
permission from other people and to require permission for themselves
(14:27):
when somebody is in their bubble, when somebody wants to
borrow something or use something or touch them. And if
we get to this topic before it's ever about sex,
it's like totally ingrained in their minds that this is
a requirement, This is about human dignity, this is about respect.
And then when it comes time if they choose to
(14:48):
have sex, they know how to advocate for themselves. They
know how to ask permission from another person, and it's
like second nature instead of this moment where they're like,
oh my god, I have no idea how to do
this and I'm in this really intense moment. So that's
another thing that we can talk to kids about, like
really really early on, and that includes folks listening, grandparents
(15:15):
and aunts and uncles asking for permission for hugs and kisses.
So not saying but you have to give Mima a hug,
you have to give Mima a kiss. I'm your grandmother.
It's required. No, it's never required. A kid always gets
to choose who they touch, who they hug, who they kiss,
(15:38):
and vice versa, because again we're teaching them you are
the boss of your body. You are in charge of
who you touch and who touches you. And again that's
a preventative, really important preventative measure as we help kids
build these skills.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, and that one's another really good point to just
how times have changed, because those are really basic boundary
lessons if you totally think about it, and I think
it is something I see a lot of parents doing
a lot more of, specifically with the hugging, Like if
you don't want to hug that person, not to be
rude about it, but it's your choice. But when I
(16:15):
was a kid, and I'm sure when you guys were kids,
it was like, have good manners and you do what
the adult is asking regardless, you know, And I think
that that can be very dangerous, thankfully, Like nothing happened
with me, But I've heard so many terrible stories of
family members you have friends of family like those being
the actual predator. So I think that's a really good
lesson to start with.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
And if you're worried about your kid being quote unquote
like impolite by refusing it, then give them another option, like, hey,
do you want to give Chip a high five or
an elbow bump, or do you guys want to come
up with a funny handshake, Like I know you really
love him, but you do what feels comfortable to you.
Maybe you guys can figure out a way, right Like,
(16:57):
So it's totally you can model for another adult that
kids can still feel great affection and connection to someone
else in their life without having to give them a
hug or kiss.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
So that starts when they're really young, but as kids
start getting older, and I think for me, if I
was a parent, I would imagine that this is where
it would get trickier. Is when you are actually having
the real conversations, the hard conversations, and they have feedback,
or they have questions or they know bad boy hearts
are you know, like, when they're actually engaging in the
(17:33):
conversation I just remember looking at my parents when I
was little, thinking they know everything, and now that i'm
their age, I'm like, they didn't.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Know shit, They nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, so where do you even know how to start?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So the place to start often is actually while like
watching a TV show or watching a movie, and you know,
there's always that moment when kids are kind of like
in grade school, where there's like the kiss or the
romantic scene and they're like, oh my god, it's fast forwarded,
(18:06):
or like, oh, uncover my eyes right, because it's like
all of a sudden, it's uncomfortable to them and they're
not sure how to handle it. So you take the pause, right,
you literally pause, and you're like, so, what do you
think is happening here? Like and tell me why you're
freaking out a little bit, Like I'm really interested. And
they might say, oh, I don't want to talk about it.
(18:28):
Just fast forward and you can say, okay, like, I
think this scene is kind of interesting because these are
two people who are clearly really in love with each
other and they're figuring out how they want to express that, right,
or your kid might say, oh, it's so disgusting, I
hate watching people kiss.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right, And you're like, right, I totally get that.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
That tells me that kissing is probably not something you're
ready to do, but maybe when you're a little older
it might be something you're interested in, so we can
talk about it then, right, Like, you're totally validating whatever
their reaction is because that's their reaction and you want
them to trust their instincts about what feels comfortable and
what doesn't. Now, the tricky thing is kids are exposed
(19:12):
to so much media now, even if they don't have phones,
even if they're not on social media, Like the content
they can just stream is unbelievable, and the amount of
sexual content and just normal ordinary shows, there's a lot
of sexual content, and so you're not always going to
(19:33):
be watching with them. Sometimes you will and sometimes you won't.
But you also want to have a conversation that sounds
something like, hey, kiddo, I know you're like sick of
watching shows with me, So I just want to tell
you in general that if you're going to, you know,
go binch a show on Netflix, there's a few things
we should probably talk about before you go and watch.
(19:53):
I don't know, the summer I turn pretty, for example,
And it's not just about sex. There's also like a
lot of drug and alcohol content that they're not ready
to see. There's sometimes like violence, there's often like fights
or aggression that they may not be prepared to see.
So that's a great way in. That's like a really
(20:14):
gentle way into conversations about sex and intimacy. And one
thing I really really want people to remember is that
when you talk about sex and intimacy, like you don't
just talk about like you know, protect yourself or like
this is how babies are made and you're ready to
(20:34):
have a baby, Like you can also talk about love
like people talk about love, and we will get to
porn in a second, because I know you know you're
all dying to get there, so we'll get there always,
just like just like the thematic with love, Like what
(21:00):
you're trying to do is help your kid connect the
dots between feeling connected to someone else, caring about someone else,
loving someone else, and finding physical expression of that love
if they choose to right, because that's someday down the road.
You hope that your kid finds someone who sees them,
(21:23):
who loves them, who cares for them, who respects them,
and if they choose with whom they have a really loving, pleasurable,
fulfilling sexual relationship. That's like that that's the end goal, right,
That's the finish line in the marathon. And to get there,
you have to help them connect the dots between the
physical expression of like what that looks like and love
(21:48):
and connection and respect and human dignity and laughter and joy.
Because I gotta tell you, the world is not connecting
those dots for our kids, right, And that's where that's
where porn comes in. Porn is offering a completely different
(22:09):
free porn that kids are exposed to. I'm not talking
about like the feminist ethical porn behind like a paywall
on only fans. Like I'm talking about the free porn
that kids get exposed to is not the kind of
sex that we someday hope our kids will have. So
I don't know, Kelly and Chip, if you are ready
(22:29):
to talk about to you, well, well, I just almost.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Where I was going to lead to real quick.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Like I'm sitting here listening to you talk and it
sounds very natural to you and like you're very comfortable
with this. I'm not a parent, you know, I'm an
uncle because I never got received this like I'm sitting
here being like, oh my god, like my anxiety is
like coming up my throat, thinking like I want to
(22:57):
throw up, thinking about like actually having to have a conversation.
Because even if I did and I felt like, oh,
I've read the book, I'm educated, my sister would fucking
kill me for even she'd be like, that is not
your job. But I also know that she's probably not
doing the right things. I think she thinks she's probably
doing the right things, but I don't She had the
(23:19):
same upbringing as me, so I don't know that she
has the skills.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So so the first thing is just to acknowledge it,
Like we always say when we get to this part
of when we do our keynote, like anybody here have
like a little vomit in the back of their throat.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
If you do, you're not alone.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And when you talk to kids about this stuff, and
we'll get to the family like permissions and not pissing
off your family members, because it is a really important
point that you bring up. But let's say it's your
kid or the kid that you are in charge of
and in charge of giving this education to. You can
narrate how or feeling, so you can literally say, dude,
(24:04):
my heart is racing, my palms are sweating, my pits
are soaked, I feel like I might throw up. But
this conversation is so important for us to have that
I'm going to get over all of my discomfort and
I'm just going to start. And by the way, I'm
definitely going to mess something up, and that's totally fine.
(24:27):
I'm going to move through this because it is so
important that I talk to you about X. Whether it's
sex or fentanyl or whatever it is. You can totally
narrate because there's nothing a kid likes better than when
an adult acknowledges their own discomfort and their own fallibility.
(24:50):
Like kids are like, oh, all right, we're down, here
we go, we're going to do this. And they're like,
you're not holding yourself on a pedestal. You're not saying
you're perfect. They can totally relate to it, because what
does the world tell them every day?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You're just a kid.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You're just a kid. You don't know how could you
forget your homework? Why did you lose your sneakers? You
didn't call grandma? Right, Like everyone is busy telling them
all the things they did wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Me included.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
I have four kids, and I spend ninety percent of
my time like reminding them of the shit they did
not do. But with us when we're like, we're not
up here, we are down here. We are in the
trenches with you, and we're going to do this, and
god am I so nervous, but we're going to do
it anyway. That just two things chip it acknowledges like
(25:43):
this is not easy for me. And also it tells
them that they can be uncomfortable and move through discomfort.
They can be uncomfortable and choose to go forth bravely
and handle it because some things are that important that
we have to weather the discomfort. And I think it's
an incredible thing to model for kids. Do you want
(26:07):
to talk about the sibling permission thing?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Do you want to?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Okay, So one of the things that's really important for
kids this age.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Is probably starting. I mean it kind of.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Depends when kids start to move around on their own
a bit, but like it depends what community you're in,
but you know, maybe around ten or eleven, you want
to help them make a list of who their trusted
adults are besides you, someone they can turn to in
a pinch.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So it might be I lost my wallet and I
have no money for bus fare, or it might be
I think I might have sex with my boyfriend and
I need you to like help me out right. It
could be anything but helping kids come up with their
list of trusted adults. So, for instance, to your sister
could be like, okay, you're on her list. You're one
(26:55):
of her trusted adults. I'm not so sure you should
be on our list, but okay, a run with it,
And then you can say to her, listen, what are
the no fly zones? Like what are you cool with
me talking to her about talking to your niece about
and where you like, this is a boundary. Don't cross
the boundary, even if you feel like, oh she should
(27:17):
really someone should really talk to her about this, Like
it's your family and you love your family and you
want your family to keep talking to you, so you
know better to not be excommunicated than to cross the boundary.
But you could say to her, for instance, hey, listen,
I just did this podcast and this woman was talking
about porn and how it's like really violent and really
(27:41):
aggressive and there's like tons of choking in it.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
We can get to that.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And I sort of feel like someone needs to have
a conversation about more with my niece, Like, hey, sis,
it can be you. If you want to have that conversation.
She's probably gonna be like, no effing. Or you could say,
I'm happy to give it a shot. I may not
do it perfectly, but I'm happy to give it a shot.
But like, someone needs to have that conversation, and that way,
(28:09):
you're giving her a choice. And she may say no
one is having that conversation, and you can say that's fine,
but you should just know that if no one's having
that conversation, she's getting her sexual education from born and
from her friends, neither of which are accurate or reliable
sources of information.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Oh sorry, and TikTok and tick three sources.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Oh the TikTok stuff. Yeah, for YouTube. I feel like
they're all over that too.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It's everything everything, So chip, that's what I would do.
I would just sort of like raise it in a
more neutral way and.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Kind of see, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I mean it's funny because I was actually home this
week and it was my sister's fiftieth birthday party, and
I went and saw I stayed with my parents for
one night and my mom shared this story that I
didn't remember. She said that when I was little, I
told my sister's twenty one. Mine's older than me, so
we were pretty close, and she said that I told
my sister that my mom. The way that my sister
(29:07):
was born was my mom sat on an egg in
the corner of our dining room until my sister was born.
And my mom says she still laughs sometimes when she
goes to the dining room thinking of that. But she
said that when I said it, she goes, oh, good,
Now I don't have to have the conversation about the
birds and the bees with him because they this is
what they think. So it's funny that we're now on
that conversation because like that was my mom's like escape plan, like,
(29:31):
oh that's what he thinks.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Cool, right, oh, and reliable science based information.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Right right, that's what adults do. They just sit on
eggs until a baby is born.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I mean, you must have read Mother Goose.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Or something along the last, right, And it's actual education.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And I totally thought that story was going in another
direction where you're going to die, And then I realized
that we really needed to talk about how babies are
really made but apparently not right. But and here's the
other thing I do want to say, is like our
parents just did the best they could, just the best
they could at the time. And for anyone listening who's
(30:13):
like I've done that or my parents did it, like,
we all just have to remove shame and judgment, like
we're doing our best.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
This is really tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I know it sounds like I'm like, will happily sit
and talk to you about this stuff forever with a
glass of wine and like a charcutery board, and I will.
That sounds fun, but I know that does some fun.
I'll come to Nashville, but most people don't. And that's
totally okay. Like, and the more you judge yourself for
not doing it right or doing it well, the harder
(30:45):
it gets. So just let yourself off the hook. And like,
these are tons and tons and tons of teeny tiny
conversations like thirty seconds, Hey, dude, I realized that we've
never talked about porn. Do you know the word pornography?
And your kid might be like, uh yeah, and you
(31:07):
can say, oh, what does it mean? I don't know,
and then you can give them two sentences on porn, right,
and if for everyone listening, who's like, okay, what are
those two sentences on porn? The two sons of on
porn or something like, it's when people or a person
is doing something sexual in a video or in a photograph,
(31:27):
and it's not for kids. It's for adults. And if
anybody ever shows it to you or you happen to
see it, you just come and let me know. I
won't freak out, I won't be mad, but you should
let me know because it's really not for kids.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And that's it, because here's what we know.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
The average age of exposure to porn in this country
is twelve years old. Wow, and fifteen percent of ten
year olds have been exposed to porn.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That's crazy to think about.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So the people who are like, oh, I'll wait till
they're like a junior in high school, know you.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
They've been watching for years at that point. Yeah, they've
got their favorite stars, they're like all about it.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
They're subscribed.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean that is so That's what I was
just thinking though that the one thing that I'm thinking
consistently as you talk would be how much emotional maturity
is involved in all of these conversations and even from
such a young age. I love that you're talking about
starting to speak, you know, the real words, because that
makes us grow up, right, And like talking about my generation,
(32:37):
generations before, it's almost like we got to kind of
sidestep these things, these growing up things, in these emotionally
maturing things, because like society wasn't necessarily asking that of
us yet, but it is now, Like there's just too
much openness so orn, there's like sad everywhere, and I know,
(32:57):
as an adult woman, I'm learning how to have a
different relationship with sex, just like we were talking about,
to enjoy the pleasure of it and like know that
that's okay for me. But there's a lot of unlearning
that I love that the younger generation of women may
not have to go through.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I mean, the thing is the misinformation on social media,
you know, on YouTube, on TikTok, I mean, the misinformation
about how to care for your body parts right, forget
about like actual intercourse, just like the things that they're
telling women to put up their vaginas, for instance, which
(33:34):
is like totally not right and not safe. So part
of the challenge is figuring out what is reliable information,
and that's for all of us. That's not just for kids,
that's for anyone who's looking for information and like figuring
out where are my obstacles, Like what is getting in
the way for me?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Is it? Listen?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Some people had real trauma, right, Some people suffered sexual
assault or sexual abuse. Like that goes into having these
conversations with kids about how you approach it, what your
comfort level is. Some people had really loving, incredible first
sexual relationships, and so they learned early on, like, oh,
(34:16):
this is what I can expect. Some people didn't have
their first orgasm until they were well into adulthood.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
There's like so many different pathways we can take, and
a really important part of it is learning who we
can trust, what sources of information we can trust, Which
people in our lives we can trust to talk about
this stuff, who aren't going to laugh or shame us
or judge us for going through these journeys. So I
think when you think about as kids get older and
(34:44):
they're actually it's not just sort of preventative information. It's
not just like get there first before the bad information
gets there. But then all of a sudden, kids are
out in the world, like making choices about being intimate
with someone and one of the things we talked earlier
about what's so different today than it was? And hookup
(35:05):
culture is like totally standard and normal in a way
it wasn't like when I was single. So hookup culture
for people who don't know, is like you take the
order of operations of like being in a relationship or
sexually involved with someone, right, it was like it used
to be. The order of operations was like you met
(35:27):
someone at a party, you're at a bar, and then
you went on a date with them, and then you
started dating, and then maybe at some point you had
sex with them, or maybe you were dating and you
were in a committed relationship and then you decided to
have sex with them. Now you like throw the order
of operations up in the air, and it's like mister
potato head, but instead of like the mouth being where
(35:47):
the mouth should go, like the mouth is on the
ear and the nose is on the mouth, like there's
no order. And so young people are having sex with
someone they just met, and maybe they'll hang out with
them after that, and then maybe they'll decide, I don't know,
a few weeks later, they're not going to have sex
(36:09):
with anyone else, But they're not dating, and they're not
in a committed relationship, but they're exclusive. And then maybe
they're dating, but they're not you know, boyfriend and girlfriend
or boyfriend and boyfriend or girlfriend and girlfriend. So it's
like everything we thought we knew is completely thrown up
in the air, which makes it that much more important
(36:29):
that kids understand how to advocate for themselves, to say
what they want and what they don't want, to understand
how to keep themselves safe, like preventing SDIS and STDs.
SDIS and a STDs are way on the rise, way
on the rise, and fewer kids are using condoms than
they did twenty years ago. So and we now with
(36:53):
all the legal changes in our country, it's much harder
to get an abortion. So all of a sudden, the
conversation become that much more important on so many different
fronts than they were.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, it's just completely different.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
If you had took scared.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I feel like, oh, we're just like digesting it all
because I think it's yeah, I think this is all
very relevant to what's happening. And you know, Chip and
I neither of us have kids, and so it's something
I can observe from afar but obviously, like even hearing
some of these conversations, I'm like, hads off to parents
because parentsing sounds really fucking hard. I mean it sounds hard.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
But I want to think about ourselves, Kelly, Like, if
people are not in a committed relationship and they're out
in the world, like, this is not only the purview
of kids, this is the purview of everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Like it's all changed, and so all of us need
to know how to take care of ourselves and how
to protect ourselves, how to find pleasure in our sexual relationships.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Like it's important for people of any eight.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, the consent thing, all of that, that's still relevant.
I'm forty one. That's still very relevant amongst all my friends.
You know that. That's like one of the conversations. But
I wanted to ask you when you're sitting in these
workshops and just from the work that you do, like,
is there one overriding thing that you walk away from
every time? And you're like, there it is again, like
(38:20):
when we were talking about what America gets wrong about sex, Like,
is there an answer that you would have as you're
in the trenches with these kids seeing it so often?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I think there's two things. One is about how we
talk about sex, and the other is like how we
the narrative we offer kids about sex. And I know
that kind of sounds like the same thing, but overall,
when you talk to kids about sex, you're going to
mess up, Like you are one hundred percent at some
(38:55):
point in those conversations, you're going to mess up. And
so one of the things I really really encourage people
to do is to take a do over, like own it.
You messed up. So Chip, for example, not to harp
on your mother, but like, she's not gonna listen to
the South.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
She doesn't even know I have a podcast, right, so
we're safe or know what a podcast is.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So let's say, for example, you're you said to your mom, yeah,
so I know you like sat on the corner on
an egg and my sister was born and great and
she was like, okay, I'm clear, great, moving on. So
a do over would have looked like a couple days later,
your mom realized, you know what, Chip should probably know
(39:36):
how a baby is one of the ways a baby
is actually made.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm gonna like revisit it. And she comes to you
and she.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Says, hey, Chip, you know when you said that a
baby was made because a woman sits on an egg
and then the egg is hatched. So I'm actually going
to tell you there's a different way that babies are made.
And then she proceeds to tell you right. So that's
just like nuts and bolts, brass tacks information. I messed up.
Like I know an incredible sex educator who when her
(40:05):
kid asked her when he was little what sex was,
she told him it was a special hug.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
And she was like, I do this for a living
and that's due.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yes the cobbler's children. She was so mortified.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Stress the pressure it gets to us.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
All we say dumb shit when we are stressed out.
But then she went back at a quieter moment and
she was like, dude, I am so sorry. You know
when you asked me what sex was and I told
you it was a special hug. Well there's a better answer,
and she proceeded to Tom. So for those of you
who are like, okay, I'm going to have the sex talk.
And by the way, it's not a talk, it's like
(40:43):
thousands of tiny, tiny talks, which also takes the pressure off.
But so that's one thing, like you got this, you
can do it. You're gonna mess up. We all mess up.
You take a do over, you have another chance. But
the second thing is when we talk about sex to kids,
(41:05):
to friends, to whomever, we have to talk about love.
We have to give them the expectation that when they
choose to be intimate with someone, and maybe choose to
be intimate with someone and have it not be love
and it's just fun and it's pleasurable, and it's consensual
and it's respectful. Great like if all of those things
(41:27):
are in place, awesome, But we hope for our kids
that someday they will really be seen by another person right,
and that sex is an expression of that person caring
about them so much, respecting them so much, loving them,
wanting them to feel pleasure that they are going to
(41:51):
do for them in their sexual relationship what they do
for them in other parts of their lives. They're going
to cook them dinner, they're going to do their launch,
and they are going to make sure that sex is
a loving, respectful, pleasurable experience.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I love that we miss that we miss because it's
either or the way society has it set up now,
it's like you don't have sex until you're married. Because
of exactly what you're saying, because you want to be
loved and respected, but that doesn't work for all of us.
And so then it's like, if you're not married, do
you have to negate the rest of that? No, no respect,
(42:29):
the care, the love, even if it's not the person
you end up with forever, can still be there.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
And the foundations of that are like when we're younger,
like think about close your eyes and think about your
first crush, right, and you can feel viscerally, like the
butterflies in your stomach and the sweatiness and the thrill
and the excitement, and like the desire to just connect
with someone on such a deep level you weren't interested
(42:59):
in having some with them. Then you had the foundation, right,
you're in sixth grade, you're in seventh grade. You had
the foundation of just connecting to someone else. And then
if you think, oh my god, my, you know, my
young adult or myself, if I can couple that deep
connection with a sex life that actually feels like a
(43:23):
companion to that deep connection, how incredible would that be
for all of us?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
What a better world we live in? I mean, if
everybody else, I.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Mean, if you think about back to the porn conversation,
most of it looks selfish, and that is teaching kids
that that sex is not about giving pleasure, it's about
receiving it, and I mean taking it or taking it and.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
You know.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
So it's just another reason that educating your kids on
what it's the proper way of giving and receiving love
during sex isn't just about like pounding somebody.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
You know, like totally, I will say the praise.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I will say that never get off.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
One of the first conversations I had with my oldest
kid when he was in high school, was like, Hey,
I don't know if you know this, but your job
is to make sure your partner has pleasure before.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
You do.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
What a good mom and fond And.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
He kind of looked at me and he was like, okay,
and then I said and then I said something else
to him, and I said, also, it's okay to laugh
and talk when you're having.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Sex with someone.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, Like, it's really important to communicate because you can't
read each other's minds and you don't know what feels
good and you don't know what hurts, and you don't
know what they want to do next. So ask and
it's much easier to do that when it's someone you
trust and someone you have a friendship with. I didn't
say like someone you're in love with or someone you're
(45:03):
in an exclusive relationship with. I just said someone you
can have a good time with and who you trust.
And he came back to me two years later and
he said, you know, Mom, when you said that thing
about like being with someone who you trust and who
like you can laugh with, that is actually true.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
And I was like right now.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I was like, oh my god, I finally did something right.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I mean, but that's like, think about if all the
moms with sons did that, how much better off our
society would be. But it's true about it, Ken, I
know not and it's so hard.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
It's so hard, but it's not impossible. I think that's
what I want to say. It's not.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
It feels impossible and it feels scary, but to anyone listening,
you can do it. Start small, Start with like the
tiny things. Start with talking about respect, or talking about laughter,
or talking about something that feels comfortable, and then make
your way in to the harder topics. Do it when
(46:11):
you're not staring at each other, when you're on you're
walking the dog, you're in the car. You know, where
there's no eye contact, if you're braiding your kid's hair,
if your kid likes you to sit with them, like
outside the bathroom while they're taking a bath, like whatever
it is where there's no eye contact takes the pressure off.
Everybody can breathe a little bit. But pick one thing
(46:35):
to talk about.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Yeah, I've noticed one of the things I've always hated
about being an observer of people raising kids. And I
don't know if this is because my mom talk to
me like I was a kid. I hate when people
talk to kids like their kids they're humans. And all
of my friends, who I think are the best parents,
(46:56):
talk to their kids like their humans. Obviously, you can't
talk to them like they're adults, because they're not, but
they talk to them like they're humans. And I feel
like if you just start with that route from day one,
it makes these things a lot easier because they're used
to being spoken to like they understand things, and I
(47:19):
think it probably makes them more mike kids more curious
because they know that they have an adult that they
can ask questions to and they're going to get an
honest answer, a human answer, and not just like, Oh,
that's not for you.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
You're a kid.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I mean, that's why Judy Bloom was so amazing because
she saw kids as whole human beings. She didn't see
them as dumb down or not worthy of honest, forthright
fiction and information. Right Like She's like, no, you deserve
a full human experience, and I'm going to give it
(47:52):
to you with this book. And I think we can
really learn from her that respecting kids, it's showing them,
I mean, obviously age appropriate information when we talk to them,
but like getting curious, like hey.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
What do you know about this? Or like what have
you heard about this? Or I'm so curious.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
I saw this trend on TikTok and I have no
idea what it means. Can you please explain it to you?
Explain it to me, because you know so much more
about this than I do. Right, Like letting them be
the expert, letting them feel like they have something to
contribute and something to say, and not just being talked
down to or dismissed or dumbed down.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Because I got to.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Tell you, kids are so smart, they are so funny,
they are so interesting, and you guys probably get the
best versions of kids like, I feel like parents don't
always get the best versions of their kids because you're
dealing with like the daily slog the like mundane crap.
But when you get to just like sit down at
(48:56):
a family gathering with a kid and be like, what
music are you listening to right now? Because I need
some new music. I'm dying to know what you are
listening to. And then they are going to turn around.
They're going to make you laugh, they're going to blow
your mind, They're going to teach you something new. So Chip,
I couldn't agree more. I think it is so important
to talk to them on our level and give them
(49:18):
the respect of being really curious about what they think
and what they know.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, well the book is this is so awkward? And
we mentioned the podcast called Filling the pubert t It's
p u b e r t e A for you listening.
I love but no, I think it's the most clever
name ever. Can you tell the listeners a little bit
about what they might find on the podcast?
Speaker 3 (49:42):
I mean the podcast we cover everything from how to
have conversations with kids about sex, to how to deal
with like the nightmare of homework, to things like youth
sports over specialization treating anxiety and mental health challenges. We
cover every topic that affects kids between eight and eighteen.
(50:06):
We love listener questions. There's some awesome ones we did
in an episode recently about how to handle it when
your teenager treats you like crap.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Which is a very common topic.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
I'm sure, so anything you need when you're dealing with
a kid this age, and we have tons of non
parents who listen. We have tons of trusted adults and
educators and healthcare providers because we really combine good science
based information that's super important with fun and funny and
(50:42):
really tactical strategies for having all of these conversations.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I was going to say, you know what else you
do is you teach how to have conversation, which is
a skill that I think a lot of people in
this world are lacking as well. Like communications seems to
be really difficult for some of this.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I think it's really hard for people.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
So the book that we wrote, half of the book
is about how to talk about all of this, yeah,
chapter by chapter, so everything from getting boobs to porn
to friendships. Half the book is about having these conversations
because when you are scared, and when you are freaked out,
(51:23):
the words don't come right. It's like I have a block,
And so we give tons and tons of scripts because
all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, now I
know what I have, how I have to start, and
then it flows from there. So, yes, communication is so important.
Communication between you and your kid, between your kid and
(51:44):
their peers, all of that is super important, and so
we really really hope to help people have those conversations.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I love it. I'm going to put the description I'm sorry,
I'm going to put the link for both of those things,
the podcast and the book in the description of this podcast.
And then if people just want to keep up with you, Vanessa,
where can they find you?
Speaker 3 (52:05):
So they can follow us on Instagram at spilling the
puber Tea and Tea or at Vanessa Croll Bennett on Instagram.
And if you have any questions for the podcast, you
can email the Pubertypodcast at gmail dot com. And if
you want to check out all of the stuff we do,
you can visit our website less awkward dot com. Because
(52:30):
everything we do is to make this stage of life
less awkward.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
God, I wish you guys existed when I was in
Jami High because I was the queen of awkward.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
Well, luckily you've grown into a beautiful, beautiful butterfly.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
There's hope for there's hope for all of us, Kelly.
If you are awkward.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Vanessa, thank you so much for being here. I love
chatting with you. We'll just have to have you back.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I feel like so fun.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
I feel like we're going to get a lost A
lot of listener emails and questions.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
From this one so great.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
Bring them on, bring them on and ship if you
If your mom wants to have like a.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
One on one, I'm totallyable.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Claudia, I can't wait to make my sister listen. I
should order the book for my sister.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah, well we'll see you guys will have the book
and then you can decide what do you want.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
To do with that. But thank you so much, thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
It was so fun.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
You guys go check out all of Essa's work again.
I will put it in the description of this podcast,
And thank you so much for listening.
Vanessa crl be Minette is here with us. She is
the author of This Is So Awkward and podcast host
of Spilling the Pubert That is such a clever.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Banta credit. I can't.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
My co host Kara and Anderson came up with spelling
the pubertea and she loves a pun. And if it's
a puberty pun, forget it. She's all over it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Anything better than a puberty pun.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So the podcast we call it the Puberty Podcast because
it's an alliteration, and we couldn't help ourselves. And someone
was like, are you going to do like the porn,
penis and puberty podcast, And I was like, no, We're
going to keep it simple, yeah, And Spilling the pubert
Tea is our is our Instagram handle and our TikTok
(00:48):
handle where we talk about everything you can possibly imagine
having to do with tweens and teens and SEXI and
all of it, which.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Is like such a distant memory too, and like such
a it was such a big part of life, but
in the rear view it didn't like I don't have
much of a memory of it, so it's kind of
exciting to sort of relive it right now.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We're going to bring it all back. Don't you worry.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh my god, we're going. I can feel like a
ZiT coming through. Well, this is exactly why you are
here today. I was telling you before the podcast that
Chip and I have been having these conversations over the
last month just about kind of what America gets wrong
with sex, right, and we could not not talk about
(01:40):
the fact that it starts when you're really young, Like
we just read the education at all about sex. And
so a friend of ours turned us on to your
your business because she had talked to you about possibly
coming to Nashville to do a workshop with her daughter
and their friends just about puberty and about actually having
these conversations to edge gate the kids. And that was
(02:01):
another thing we talked about, like where are they supposed
to learn this? So that's right, tell us about the
business before we get to anything else, because I want
the listeners to kind of have a foundation of what
it is that you do.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So we basically do everything you can possibly think of.
We're relating to puberty, educating kids, adults, teachers, grandparents, aunts, uncles,
anyone who's involved in caring for kids between eight and
eighteen and beyond. We have resources, so we wrote the
(02:36):
book this is so Awkward. We have the Puberty Podcast.
We just launched a health and sex ed curriculum called
that Health Class that should be in Italics, which we're
now licensing to schools across the country because this is
not an easy topic and it's not a quick fix,
(02:57):
And we're actually going to be launching a parent portal
in the next couple of months to give parents all
of the information they need to have these tricky conversations.
And it's not just the kids who didn't get the education,
the parents themselves never had it, and it's they're faults, right, Like,
(03:22):
we grew up in an era. I mean, you guys
are younger than I am, but I'll just say we
where you didn't get you got like an hour sometime
in April or May to talk about sex. Ye, And
if you didn't have a family where like everything gets
talked about. I grew up in a family where everything
(03:43):
got talked about.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And we can explore that later. Possession, Where were you
going to get the information?
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Your friends, your peers when you're like a teen are
not reliable sources of information. I mean, I had the books,
where did I come from and what's happening to me.
I don't know if you guys had any of those books.
I got no education for you got we got a
lot of work to do. We don't have a lot
of time, but we're gonna get a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
In time.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And then Kara, my co host and co author, wrote
The American Girl Karen Keeping of You books, which are
really gentle, really lovely introductions to puberty for girls. And
then she wrote Guy Stuff for boys. So those are
incredible resources, but one book doesn't answer the like millions
(04:38):
of questions that people have about growing up and changing
bodies and later sex and love and all of those things.
So yeah, that's what we're here for.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Well, I think it's touched on such a good topic
to say that, like our parents can't give us anything,
they didn't get either, you know, and so if it
wasn't started generations back in your family, it's probably just
been repeated over and over. And I know my parents
had me at twenty five, like you know, they were
so much younger then we do it nowadays. But also
(05:09):
when I was prepping for this podcast, it dawned on me,
I'm like sex and everything that teenagers are going through
now is so completely different than when I was a kid.
It wouldn't matter if I had all the education in
the world. You've still got a lot to.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Learn, totally.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I mean, it's incredible. One of the things we talk
a lot about is not bringing your baggage into the conversations,
so like part of it could be, Oh, I know just.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
How you feel.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I had my heart broken when I was your age,
and I cried myself to sleep for a year. And
now sometimes when your dad's asleep, I still sobbed silently
into my pillow. So don't worry, honey, It'll all be fine.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Actually, I'm like, can you imagine a teenager hearing that, really.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
What from their mom?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Ye?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Shut up?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Like right, And it's like, I don't need your crap,
Like I am going through this is hard enough for me.
I don't need you to like dump your stuff all
over me. And so part of the like the first
thing you need to do when you're gonna have conversations
with kids, and this is everybody. This isn't just parents, right,
this is grandparents, aunts, uncles, mentors. There's so many adults
(06:24):
in kids' lives, particularly around this age, who can have
an incredible impact on kids who are not their parents,
because kids often like don't want to talk to their
parents or don't want to hear the advice their parents have.
And so you guys are the perfect example. You're like
the cool am and uncle who can give good advice.
(06:44):
But we all have to leave our baggage at the door.
We cannot bring it in, We cannot dump it all
over kids, because Kelly, to your point, the.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
World is so different. We don't know how they feel.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We didn't grow up with social media, we didn't grow
up with like Netflix streaming and thirteen Reasons Why, and
like all of the content they consume, and you know
Andrew Tate, and like all of the influences they have
in their lives. And so we have to just let
them be the experts in their lives because it's totally
(07:16):
different than.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It was when we were growing up. But how does
that work?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So they're obviously kids, so how could they be experts?
You know, Like, where do you even know how to
start with this stuff?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay, so you start from the beginning. So for those
of you listening who have like little kids in your lives, right,
toddlers even infants, you may be listening to this podcast
and you're changing your baby on the changing table and
you're like opening up the diaper and you're not going
to say to your infant, oh.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Look at your little peepee, isn't it cute?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Or look at your little pocket book? Isn't it cute? Right,
because I'm not making up a book. Is a nickname
I've heard for a volva?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yes, yes, pocab I've never heard that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I mean there, it's incredible the creativity people will have
to come up with words that are not the anatomically
correct words for body parts.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
But here's the kicker.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
So you're staring at your baby on the changing table, right,
and you're like, oh god, I've never said this word
before in my entire life. But you're like, okay, I'm
going to clean your penis and you're like art is
pumping and like it feels like it's going to jump
out of your chest, or like, okay, you know, like
you're gonna make a wee weie and you're you know,
the pea comes out of your urethra.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Did you know that?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Okay, fine, you're freaking out, Except we have to use
anatomically correct language for body parts because the research unequivocally
shows us that children who knew the names of their
genitals and all of their body parts are safer from
sexual predators than children who don't.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Why Why is that?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Because an adult who is I mean, I hate to
use this phrase, but grooming a child who realizes that
that child has an adult in their life who talks
to them about their body parts and who is in
conversation with them about their privacy, about safe touch and
unsafe touch, will realize this is not a.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Kid who I can groom.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Wow, someone is talking to this kid about their full
human existence and their whole body and this is not
a kid that I can groom.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So for no other reason, anyone listening is like, oh,
I cannot possibly use those words. Use those words. It
will keep your kid safer. So it acts I guess
it about those words. It makes it so hard to say,
Like for me, it's easier to.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Say really because that can just pocketbook.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I definitely wouldn't feel much more calling it a pocket box.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh loves to talk about vaginas that we talk about.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
This a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So and the other thing like here's for example, a
lot of people don't know the difference between a vagina
and a volva. Right, So the volva is the eternal anatomy. Right,
it's the labia majora, the labia manora, the opening to
the vagina, and the clitteriss. And here's what's fascinating is
nobody tells girls that they have a clitterists, and nobody
(10:35):
tells girls that the only job of the clitterists is
that it feels good when it's touched. I mean, we
have done workshops where there are forty and fifty year
olds in the room who are like, I never knew that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
What one told me that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I hope my mom's never been told that I'd put
money on it that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Okay, See, I guess because just nowadays, because of porn
and all the conversation happening around sex, it seems so
obvious to me. But I guess if you were an
older generation, like older than them, maybe they just didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
No, And and people aren't telling girls and it's like
girls going through life. Yeah, because here's the difference. For boys,
the penis is both about reproduction and about pleasure. Right,
So they talk about the penis because if at baseline,
if if the kid is being taught about reproduction, they
(11:36):
have to talk about the penis, whereas for girls, if
you're only talking about reproduction, you really only have to
talk about the vagina and then the uterus and the
fallopian tubes and the ovaries. But you don't have to
talk about a clitteris if the only purpose is to
talk about reproduction. And so I think that can is
like a little bit the source of the inequity. I mean,
(11:57):
there's also like all sorts of inequity, but between how
people talk about boys having sex and girls having sex,
but I do think that's part of it. It's like
you can skip over it and still talk about reproduction.
And it's really important for girls to know. It's also
important for them to know about their vulvs because that's
a place that needs to be kept clean in a
(12:18):
really gentle and safe way. And they won't necessarily intuitively
know how to take care of that part of their
body if someone's not teaching them and teaching them the
different parts of that body. And so it's also about
it's not just about pleasure, it's about self care. It's
about going to the doctor and having a pain or
(12:42):
a sting or a rash and being able to say
exactly where that difficulty is. If no one teaches you
the names, you're kind of just like down there. But
the more in my pocket book, in my pocket book,
in the side pilot of my pocket book. Wait in Nashville,
do you guys say purse or pocketbook? Perse I thought,
(13:05):
I was like, I'm talking to a purse group.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I'm not talking to my mom's say my mom said pocketbook,
pocket book.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It wasn't about her down blow because your mom didn't
talk about her.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Down so you don't even know your mom had a down.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's a Barbie part, Barbie.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Solid.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So it really starts as soon as we are born,
as soon as we're digesting words with just talking about
our body parts. That's such a good tip. I did
not even think about that. But the predators like, obviously
if you know the actual names of your body parts,
they also know conversation is open in that home exactly,
and what's probably framing it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, And the other thing you can start when you
have little kids, like kids in preschool, Yeah, are conversations
about consent. So one of the things that happens in
our culture is we start talking about consent when like
kids are getting ready to have sex or you know,
I shouldn't say kids teens and young adults are getting
ready to have sex. But the truth is you can
(14:06):
talk about consent when it has nothing to do with sex,
right Like can I braid your hair? Can I sit
on your lap? Can I stand next to you in line?
Can I have a bite of your sandwich? There's a
million ways that we can teach kids to ask for
permission from other people and to require permission for themselves
(14:27):
when somebody is in their bubble, when somebody wants to
borrow something or use something or touch them. And if
we get to this topic before it's ever about sex,
it's like totally ingrained in their minds that this is
a requirement, This is about human dignity, this is about respect.
And then when it comes time if they choose to
(14:48):
have sex, they know how to advocate for themselves. They
know how to ask permission from another person, and it's
like second nature instead of this moment where they're like,
oh my god, I have no idea how to do
this and I'm in this really intense moment. So that's
another thing that we can talk to kids about, like
really really early on, and that includes folks listening, grandparents
(15:15):
and aunts and uncles asking for permission for hugs and kisses.
So not saying but you have to give Mima a hug,
you have to give Mima a kiss. I'm your grandmother.
It's required. No, it's never required. A kid always gets
to choose who they touch, who they hug, who they kiss,
(15:38):
and vice versa, because again we're teaching them you are
the boss of your body. You are in charge of
who you touch and who touches you. And again that's
a preventative, really important preventative measure as we help kids
build these skills.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, and that one's another really good point to just
how times have changed, because those are really basic boundary
lessons if you totally think about it, and I think
it is something I see a lot of parents doing
a lot more of, specifically with the hugging, Like if
you don't want to hug that person, not to be
rude about it, but it's your choice. But when I
(16:15):
was a kid, and I'm sure when you guys were kids,
it was like, have good manners and you do what
the adult is asking regardless, you know, And I think
that that can be very dangerous, thankfully, Like nothing happened
with me, But I've heard so many terrible stories of
family members you have friends of family like those being
the actual predator. So I think that's a really good
lesson to start with.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
And if you're worried about your kid being quote unquote
like impolite by refusing it, then give them another option, like, hey,
do you want to give Chip a high five or
an elbow bump, or do you guys want to come
up with a funny handshake, Like I know you really
love him, but you do what feels comfortable to you.
Maybe you guys can figure out a way, right Like,
(16:57):
So it's totally you can model for another adult that
kids can still feel great affection and connection to someone
else in their life without having to give them a
hug or kiss.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
So that starts when they're really young, but as kids
start getting older, and I think for me, if I
was a parent, I would imagine that this is where
it would get trickier. Is when you are actually having
the real conversations, the hard conversations, and they have feedback,
or they have questions or they know bad boy hearts
are you know, like, when they're actually engaging in the
(17:33):
conversation I just remember looking at my parents when I
was little, thinking they know everything, and now that i'm
their age, I'm like, they didn't.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Know shit, They nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, so where do you even know how to start?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So the place to start often is actually while like
watching a TV show or watching a movie, and you know,
there's always that moment when kids are kind of like
in grade school, where there's like the kiss or the
romantic scene and they're like, oh my god, it's fast forwarded,
(18:06):
or like, oh, uncover my eyes right, because it's like
all of a sudden, it's uncomfortable to them and they're
not sure how to handle it. So you take the pause, right,
you literally pause, and you're like, so, what do you
think is happening here? Like and tell me why you're
freaking out a little bit, Like I'm really interested. And
they might say, oh, I don't want to talk about it.
(18:28):
Just fast forward and you can say, okay, like, I
think this scene is kind of interesting because these are
two people who are clearly really in love with each
other and they're figuring out how they want to express that, right,
or your kid might say, oh, it's so disgusting, I
hate watching people kiss.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right, And you're like, right, I totally get that.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
That tells me that kissing is probably not something you're
ready to do, but maybe when you're a little older
it might be something you're interested in, so we can
talk about it then, right, Like, you're totally validating whatever
their reaction is because that's their reaction and you want
them to trust their instincts about what feels comfortable and
what doesn't. Now, the tricky thing is kids are exposed
(19:12):
to so much media now, even if they don't have phones,
even if they're not on social media, Like the content
they can just stream is unbelievable, and the amount of
sexual content and just normal ordinary shows, there's a lot
of sexual content, and so you're not always going to
(19:33):
be watching with them. Sometimes you will and sometimes you won't.
But you also want to have a conversation that sounds
something like, hey, kiddo, I know you're like sick of
watching shows with me, So I just want to tell
you in general that if you're going to, you know,
go binch a show on Netflix, there's a few things
we should probably talk about before you go and watch.
(19:53):
I don't know, the summer I turn pretty, for example,
And it's not just about sex. There's also like a
lot of drug and alcohol content that they're not ready
to see. There's sometimes like violence, there's often like fights
or aggression that they may not be prepared to see.
So that's a great way in. That's like a really
(20:14):
gentle way into conversations about sex and intimacy. And one
thing I really really want people to remember is that
when you talk about sex and intimacy, like you don't
just talk about like you know, protect yourself or like
this is how babies are made and you're ready to
(20:34):
have a baby, Like you can also talk about love
like people talk about love, and we will get to
porn in a second, because I know you know you're
all dying to get there, so we'll get there always,
just like just like the thematic with love, Like what
(21:00):
you're trying to do is help your kid connect the
dots between feeling connected to someone else, caring about someone else,
loving someone else, and finding physical expression of that love
if they choose to right, because that's someday down the road.
You hope that your kid finds someone who sees them,
(21:23):
who loves them, who cares for them, who respects them,
and if they choose with whom they have a really loving, pleasurable,
fulfilling sexual relationship. That's like that that's the end goal, right,
That's the finish line in the marathon. And to get there,
you have to help them connect the dots between the
physical expression of like what that looks like and love
(21:48):
and connection and respect and human dignity and laughter and joy.
Because I gotta tell you, the world is not connecting
those dots for our kids, right, And that's where that's
where porn comes in. Porn is offering a completely different
(22:09):
free porn that kids are exposed to. I'm not talking
about like the feminist ethical porn behind like a paywall
on only fans. Like I'm talking about the free porn
that kids get exposed to is not the kind of
sex that we someday hope our kids will have. So
I don't know, Kelly and Chip, if you are ready
(22:29):
to talk about to you, well, well, I just almost.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Where I was going to lead to real quick.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Like I'm sitting here listening to you talk and it
sounds very natural to you and like you're very comfortable
with this. I'm not a parent, you know, I'm an
uncle because I never got received this like I'm sitting
here being like, oh my god, like my anxiety is
like coming up my throat, thinking like I want to
(22:57):
throw up, thinking about like actually having to have a conversation.
Because even if I did and I felt like, oh,
I've read the book, I'm educated, my sister would fucking
kill me for even she'd be like, that is not
your job. But I also know that she's probably not
doing the right things. I think she thinks she's probably
doing the right things, but I don't She had the
(23:19):
same upbringing as me, so I don't know that she
has the skills.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So so the first thing is just to acknowledge it,
Like we always say when we get to this part
of when we do our keynote, like anybody here have
like a little vomit in the back of their throat.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
If you do, you're not alone.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And when you talk to kids about this stuff, and
we'll get to the family like permissions and not pissing
off your family members, because it is a really important
point that you bring up. But let's say it's your
kid or the kid that you are in charge of
and in charge of giving this education to. You can
narrate how or feeling, so you can literally say, dude,
(24:04):
my heart is racing, my palms are sweating, my pits
are soaked, I feel like I might throw up. But
this conversation is so important for us to have that
I'm going to get over all of my discomfort and
I'm just going to start. And by the way, I'm
definitely going to mess something up, and that's totally fine.
(24:27):
I'm going to move through this because it is so
important that I talk to you about X. Whether it's
sex or fentanyl or whatever it is. You can totally
narrate because there's nothing a kid likes better than when
an adult acknowledges their own discomfort and their own fallibility.
(24:50):
Like kids are like, oh, all right, we're down, here
we go, we're going to do this. And they're like,
you're not holding yourself on a pedestal. You're not saying
you're perfect. They can totally relate to it, because what
does the world tell them every day?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You're just a kid.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You're just a kid. You don't know how could you
forget your homework? Why did you lose your sneakers? You
didn't call grandma? Right, Like everyone is busy telling them
all the things they did wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Me included.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
I have four kids, and I spend ninety percent of
my time like reminding them of the shit they did
not do. But with us when we're like, we're not
up here, we are down here. We are in the
trenches with you, and we're going to do this, and
god am I so nervous, but we're going to do
it anyway. That just two things chip it acknowledges like
(25:43):
this is not easy for me. And also it tells
them that they can be uncomfortable and move through discomfort.
They can be uncomfortable and choose to go forth bravely
and handle it because some things are that important that
we have to weather the discomfort. And I think it's
an incredible thing to model for kids. Do you want
(26:07):
to talk about the sibling permission thing?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Do you want to?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Okay, So one of the things that's really important for
kids this age.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Is probably starting. I mean it kind of.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Depends when kids start to move around on their own
a bit, but like it depends what community you're in,
but you know, maybe around ten or eleven, you want
to help them make a list of who their trusted
adults are besides you, someone they can turn to in
a pinch.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So it might be I lost my wallet and I
have no money for bus fare, or it might be
I think I might have sex with my boyfriend and
I need you to like help me out right. It
could be anything but helping kids come up with their
list of trusted adults. So, for instance, to your sister
could be like, okay, you're on her list. You're one
(26:55):
of her trusted adults. I'm not so sure you should
be on our list, but okay, a run with it,
And then you can say to her, listen, what are
the no fly zones? Like what are you cool with
me talking to her about talking to your niece about
and where you like, this is a boundary. Don't cross
the boundary, even if you feel like, oh she should
(27:17):
really someone should really talk to her about this, Like
it's your family and you love your family and you
want your family to keep talking to you, so you
know better to not be excommunicated than to cross the boundary.
But you could say to her, for instance, hey, listen,
I just did this podcast and this woman was talking
about porn and how it's like really violent and really
(27:41):
aggressive and there's like tons of choking in it.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
We can get to that.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And I sort of feel like someone needs to have
a conversation about more with my niece, Like, hey, sis,
it can be you. If you want to have that conversation.
She's probably gonna be like, no effing. Or you could say,
I'm happy to give it a shot. I may not
do it perfectly, but I'm happy to give it a shot.
But like, someone needs to have that conversation, and that way,
(28:09):
you're giving her a choice. And she may say no
one is having that conversation, and you can say that's fine,
but you should just know that if no one's having
that conversation, she's getting her sexual education from born and
from her friends, neither of which are accurate or reliable
sources of information.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Oh sorry, and TikTok and tick three sources.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Oh the TikTok stuff. Yeah, for YouTube. I feel like
they're all over that too.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It's everything everything, So chip, that's what I would do.
I would just sort of like raise it in a
more neutral way and.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Kind of see, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I mean it's funny because I was actually home this
week and it was my sister's fiftieth birthday party, and
I went and saw I stayed with my parents for
one night and my mom shared this story that I
didn't remember. She said that when I was little, I
told my sister's twenty one. Mine's older than me, so
we were pretty close, and she said that I told
my sister that my mom. The way that my sister
(29:07):
was born was my mom sat on an egg in
the corner of our dining room until my sister was born.
And my mom says she still laughs sometimes when she
goes to the dining room thinking of that. But she
said that when I said it, she goes, oh, good,
Now I don't have to have the conversation about the
birds and the bees with him because they this is
what they think. So it's funny that we're now on
that conversation because like that was my mom's like escape plan, like,
(29:31):
oh that's what he thinks.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Cool, right, oh, and reliable science based information.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Right right, that's what adults do. They just sit on
eggs until a baby is born.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I mean, you must have read Mother Goose.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Or something along the last, right, And it's actual education.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And I totally thought that story was going in another
direction where you're going to die, And then I realized
that we really needed to talk about how babies are
really made but apparently not right. But and here's the
other thing I do want to say, is like our
parents just did the best they could, just the best
they could at the time. And for anyone listening who's
(30:13):
like I've done that or my parents did it, like,
we all just have to remove shame and judgment, like
we're doing our best.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
This is really tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I know it sounds like I'm like, will happily sit
and talk to you about this stuff forever with a
glass of wine and like a charcutery board, and I will.
That sounds fun, but I know that does some fun.
I'll come to Nashville, but most people don't. And that's
totally okay. Like, and the more you judge yourself for
not doing it right or doing it well, the harder
(30:45):
it gets. So just let yourself off the hook. And like,
these are tons and tons and tons of teeny tiny
conversations like thirty seconds, Hey, dude, I realized that we've
never talked about porn. Do you know the word pornography?
And your kid might be like, uh yeah, and you
(31:07):
can say, oh, what does it mean? I don't know,
and then you can give them two sentences on porn, right,
and if for everyone listening, who's like, okay, what are
those two sentences on porn? The two sons of on
porn or something like, it's when people or a person
is doing something sexual in a video or in a photograph,
(31:27):
and it's not for kids. It's for adults. And if
anybody ever shows it to you or you happen to
see it, you just come and let me know. I
won't freak out, I won't be mad, but you should
let me know because it's really not for kids.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And that's it, because here's what we know.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
The average age of exposure to porn in this country
is twelve years old. Wow, and fifteen percent of ten
year olds have been exposed to porn.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That's crazy to think about.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So the people who are like, oh, I'll wait till
they're like a junior in high school, know you.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
They've been watching for years at that point. Yeah, they've
got their favorite stars, they're like all about it.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
They're subscribed.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean that is so That's what I was
just thinking though that the one thing that I'm thinking
consistently as you talk would be how much emotional maturity
is involved in all of these conversations and even from
such a young age. I love that you're talking about
starting to speak, you know, the real words, because that
makes us grow up, right, And like talking about my generation,
(32:37):
generations before, it's almost like we got to kind of
sidestep these things, these growing up things, in these emotionally
maturing things, because like society wasn't necessarily asking that of
us yet, but it is now, Like there's just too
much openness so orn, there's like sad everywhere, and I know,
(32:57):
as an adult woman, I'm learning how to have a
different relationship with sex, just like we were talking about,
to enjoy the pleasure of it and like know that
that's okay for me. But there's a lot of unlearning
that I love that the younger generation of women may
not have to go through.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I mean, the thing is the misinformation on social media,
you know, on YouTube, on TikTok, I mean, the misinformation
about how to care for your body parts right, forget
about like actual intercourse, just like the things that they're
telling women to put up their vaginas, for instance, which
(33:34):
is like totally not right and not safe. So part
of the challenge is figuring out what is reliable information,
and that's for all of us. That's not just for kids,
that's for anyone who's looking for information and like figuring
out where are my obstacles, Like what is getting in
the way for me?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Is it? Listen?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Some people had real trauma, right, Some people suffered sexual
assault or sexual abuse. Like that goes into having these
conversations with kids about how you approach it, what your
comfort level is. Some people had really loving, incredible first
sexual relationships, and so they learned early on, like, oh,
(34:16):
this is what I can expect. Some people didn't have
their first orgasm until they were well into adulthood.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
There's like so many different pathways we can take, and
a really important part of it is learning who we
can trust, what sources of information we can trust, Which
people in our lives we can trust to talk about
this stuff, who aren't going to laugh or shame us
or judge us for going through these journeys. So I
think when you think about as kids get older and
(34:44):
they're actually it's not just sort of preventative information. It's
not just like get there first before the bad information
gets there. But then all of a sudden, kids are
out in the world, like making choices about being intimate
with someone and one of the things we talked earlier
about what's so different today than it was? And hookup
(35:05):
culture is like totally standard and normal in a way
it wasn't like when I was single. So hookup culture
for people who don't know, is like you take the
order of operations of like being in a relationship or
sexually involved with someone, right, it was like it used
to be. The order of operations was like you met
(35:27):
someone at a party, you're at a bar, and then
you went on a date with them, and then you
started dating, and then maybe at some point you had
sex with them, or maybe you were dating and you
were in a committed relationship and then you decided to
have sex with them. Now you like throw the order
of operations up in the air, and it's like mister
potato head, but instead of like the mouth being where
(35:47):
the mouth should go, like the mouth is on the
ear and the nose is on the mouth, like there's
no order. And so young people are having sex with
someone they just met, and maybe they'll hang out with
them after that, and then maybe they'll decide, I don't know,
a few weeks later, they're not going to have sex
(36:09):
with anyone else, But they're not dating, and they're not
in a committed relationship, but they're exclusive. And then maybe
they're dating, but they're not you know, boyfriend and girlfriend
or boyfriend and boyfriend or girlfriend and girlfriend. So it's
like everything we thought we knew is completely thrown up
in the air, which makes it that much more important
(36:29):
that kids understand how to advocate for themselves, to say
what they want and what they don't want, to understand
how to keep themselves safe, like preventing SDIS and STDs.
SDIS and a STDs are way on the rise, way
on the rise, and fewer kids are using condoms than
they did twenty years ago. So and we now with
(36:53):
all the legal changes in our country, it's much harder
to get an abortion. So all of a sudden, the
conversation become that much more important on so many different
fronts than they were.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, it's just completely different.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
If you had took scared.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I feel like, oh, we're just like digesting it all
because I think it's yeah, I think this is all
very relevant to what's happening. And you know, Chip and
I neither of us have kids, and so it's something
I can observe from afar but obviously, like even hearing
some of these conversations, I'm like, hads off to parents
because parentsing sounds really fucking hard. I mean it sounds hard.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
But I want to think about ourselves, Kelly, Like, if
people are not in a committed relationship and they're out
in the world, like, this is not only the purview
of kids, this is the purview of everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Like it's all changed, and so all of us need
to know how to take care of ourselves and how
to protect ourselves, how to find pleasure in our sexual relationships.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Like it's important for people of any eight.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, the consent thing, all of that, that's still relevant.
I'm forty one. That's still very relevant amongst all my friends.
You know that. That's like one of the conversations. But
I wanted to ask you when you're sitting in these
workshops and just from the work that you do, like,
is there one overriding thing that you walk away from
every time? And you're like, there it is again, like
(38:20):
when we were talking about what America gets wrong about sex, Like,
is there an answer that you would have as you're
in the trenches with these kids seeing it so often?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I think there's two things. One is about how we
talk about sex, and the other is like how we
the narrative we offer kids about sex. And I know
that kind of sounds like the same thing, but overall,
when you talk to kids about sex, you're going to
mess up, Like you are one hundred percent at some
(38:55):
point in those conversations, you're going to mess up. And
so one of the things I really really encourage people
to do is to take a do over, like own it.
You messed up. So Chip, for example, not to harp
on your mother, but like, she's not gonna listen to
the South.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
She doesn't even know I have a podcast, right, so
we're safe or know what a podcast is.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So let's say, for example, you're you said to your mom, yeah,
so I know you like sat on the corner on
an egg and my sister was born and great and
she was like, okay, I'm clear, great, moving on. So
a do over would have looked like a couple days later,
your mom realized, you know what, Chip should probably know
(39:36):
how a baby is one of the ways a baby
is actually made.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm gonna like revisit it. And she comes to you
and she.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Says, hey, Chip, you know when you said that a
baby was made because a woman sits on an egg
and then the egg is hatched. So I'm actually going
to tell you there's a different way that babies are made.
And then she proceeds to tell you right. So that's
just like nuts and bolts, brass tacks information. I messed up.
Like I know an incredible sex educator who when her
(40:05):
kid asked her when he was little what sex was,
she told him it was a special hug.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
And she was like, I do this for a living
and that's due.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yes the cobbler's children. She was so mortified.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Stress the pressure it gets to us.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
All we say dumb shit when we are stressed out.
But then she went back at a quieter moment and
she was like, dude, I am so sorry. You know
when you asked me what sex was and I told
you it was a special hug. Well there's a better answer,
and she proceeded to Tom. So for those of you
who are like, okay, I'm going to have the sex talk.
And by the way, it's not a talk, it's like
(40:43):
thousands of tiny, tiny talks, which also takes the pressure off.
But so that's one thing, like you got this, you
can do it. You're gonna mess up. We all mess up.
You take a do over, you have another chance. But
the second thing is when we talk about sex to kids,
(41:05):
to friends, to whomever, we have to talk about love.
We have to give them the expectation that when they
choose to be intimate with someone, and maybe choose to
be intimate with someone and have it not be love
and it's just fun and it's pleasurable, and it's consensual
and it's respectful. Great like if all of those things
(41:27):
are in place, awesome, But we hope for our kids
that someday they will really be seen by another person right,
and that sex is an expression of that person caring
about them so much, respecting them so much, loving them,
wanting them to feel pleasure that they are going to
(41:51):
do for them in their sexual relationship what they do
for them in other parts of their lives. They're going
to cook them dinner, they're going to do their launch,
and they are going to make sure that sex is
a loving, respectful, pleasurable experience.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I love that we miss that we miss because it's
either or the way society has it set up now,
it's like you don't have sex until you're married. Because
of exactly what you're saying, because you want to be
loved and respected, but that doesn't work for all of us.
And so then it's like, if you're not married, do
you have to negate the rest of that? No, no respect,
(42:29):
the care, the love, even if it's not the person
you end up with forever, can still be there.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
And the foundations of that are like when we're younger,
like think about close your eyes and think about your
first crush, right, and you can feel viscerally, like the
butterflies in your stomach and the sweatiness and the thrill
and the excitement, and like the desire to just connect
with someone on such a deep level you weren't interested
(42:59):
in having some with them. Then you had the foundation, right,
you're in sixth grade, you're in seventh grade. You had
the foundation of just connecting to someone else. And then
if you think, oh my god, my, you know, my
young adult or myself, if I can couple that deep
connection with a sex life that actually feels like a
(43:23):
companion to that deep connection, how incredible would that be
for all of us?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
What a better world we live in? I mean, if
everybody else, I.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Mean, if you think about back to the porn conversation,
most of it looks selfish, and that is teaching kids
that that sex is not about giving pleasure, it's about
receiving it, and I mean taking it or taking it and.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
You know.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
So it's just another reason that educating your kids on
what it's the proper way of giving and receiving love
during sex isn't just about like pounding somebody.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
You know, like totally, I will say the praise.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I will say that never get off.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
One of the first conversations I had with my oldest
kid when he was in high school, was like, Hey,
I don't know if you know this, but your job
is to make sure your partner has pleasure before.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
You do.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
What a good mom and fond And.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
He kind of looked at me and he was like, okay,
and then I said and then I said something else
to him, and I said, also, it's okay to laugh
and talk when you're having.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Sex with someone.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, Like, it's really important to communicate because you can't
read each other's minds and you don't know what feels
good and you don't know what hurts, and you don't
know what they want to do next. So ask and
it's much easier to do that when it's someone you
trust and someone you have a friendship with. I didn't
say like someone you're in love with or someone you're
(45:03):
in an exclusive relationship with. I just said someone you
can have a good time with and who you trust.
And he came back to me two years later and
he said, you know, Mom, when you said that thing
about like being with someone who you trust and who
like you can laugh with, that is actually true.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
And I was like right now.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I was like, oh my god, I finally did something right.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I mean, but that's like, think about if all the
moms with sons did that, how much better off our
society would be. But it's true about it, Ken, I
know not and it's so hard.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
It's so hard, but it's not impossible. I think that's
what I want to say. It's not.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
It feels impossible and it feels scary, but to anyone listening,
you can do it. Start small, Start with like the
tiny things. Start with talking about respect, or talking about laughter,
or talking about something that feels comfortable, and then make
your way in to the harder topics. Do it when
(46:11):
you're not staring at each other, when you're on you're
walking the dog, you're in the car. You know, where
there's no eye contact, if you're braiding your kid's hair,
if your kid likes you to sit with them, like
outside the bathroom while they're taking a bath, like whatever
it is where there's no eye contact takes the pressure off.
Everybody can breathe a little bit. But pick one thing
(46:35):
to talk about.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Yeah, I've noticed one of the things I've always hated
about being an observer of people raising kids. And I
don't know if this is because my mom talk to
me like I was a kid. I hate when people
talk to kids like their kids they're humans. And all
of my friends, who I think are the best parents,
(46:56):
talk to their kids like their humans. Obviously, you can't
talk to them like they're adults, because they're not, but
they talk to them like they're humans. And I feel
like if you just start with that route from day one,
it makes these things a lot easier because they're used
to being spoken to like they understand things, and I
(47:19):
think it probably makes them more mike kids more curious
because they know that they have an adult that they
can ask questions to and they're going to get an
honest answer, a human answer, and not just like, Oh,
that's not for you.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
You're a kid.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I mean, that's why Judy Bloom was so amazing because
she saw kids as whole human beings. She didn't see
them as dumb down or not worthy of honest, forthright
fiction and information. Right Like She's like, no, you deserve
a full human experience, and I'm going to give it
(47:52):
to you with this book. And I think we can
really learn from her that respecting kids, it's showing them,
I mean, obviously age appropriate information when we talk to them,
but like getting curious, like hey.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
What do you know about this? Or like what have
you heard about this? Or I'm so curious.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
I saw this trend on TikTok and I have no
idea what it means. Can you please explain it to you?
Explain it to me, because you know so much more
about this than I do. Right, Like letting them be
the expert, letting them feel like they have something to
contribute and something to say, and not just being talked
down to or dismissed or dumbed down.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Because I got to.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Tell you, kids are so smart, they are so funny,
they are so interesting, and you guys probably get the
best versions of kids like, I feel like parents don't
always get the best versions of their kids because you're
dealing with like the daily slog the like mundane crap.
But when you get to just like sit down at
(48:56):
a family gathering with a kid and be like, what
music are you listening to right now? Because I need
some new music. I'm dying to know what you are
listening to. And then they are going to turn around.
They're going to make you laugh, they're going to blow
your mind, They're going to teach you something new. So Chip,
I couldn't agree more. I think it is so important
to talk to them on our level and give them
(49:18):
the respect of being really curious about what they think
and what they know.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, well the book is this is so awkward? And
we mentioned the podcast called Filling the pubert t It's
p u b e r t e A for you listening.
I love but no, I think it's the most clever
name ever. Can you tell the listeners a little bit
about what they might find on the podcast?
Speaker 3 (49:42):
I mean the podcast we cover everything from how to
have conversations with kids about sex, to how to deal
with like the nightmare of homework, to things like youth
sports over specialization treating anxiety and mental health challenges. We
cover every topic that affects kids between eight and eighteen.
(50:06):
We love listener questions. There's some awesome ones we did
in an episode recently about how to handle it when
your teenager treats you like crap.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Which is a very common topic.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
I'm sure, so anything you need when you're dealing with
a kid this age, and we have tons of non
parents who listen. We have tons of trusted adults and
educators and healthcare providers because we really combine good science
based information that's super important with fun and funny and
(50:42):
really tactical strategies for having all of these conversations.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I was going to say, you know what else you
do is you teach how to have conversation, which is
a skill that I think a lot of people in
this world are lacking as well. Like communications seems to
be really difficult for some of this.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I think it's really hard for people.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
So the book that we wrote, half of the book
is about how to talk about all of this, yeah,
chapter by chapter, so everything from getting boobs to porn
to friendships. Half the book is about having these conversations
because when you are scared, and when you are freaked out,
(51:23):
the words don't come right. It's like I have a block,
And so we give tons and tons of scripts because
all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, now I
know what I have, how I have to start, and
then it flows from there. So, yes, communication is so important.
Communication between you and your kid, between your kid and
(51:44):
their peers, all of that is super important, and so
we really really hope to help people have those conversations.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I love it. I'm going to put the description I'm sorry,
I'm going to put the link for both of those things,
the podcast and the book in the description of this podcast.
And then if people just want to keep up with you, Vanessa,
where can they find you?
Speaker 3 (52:05):
So they can follow us on Instagram at spilling the
puber Tea and Tea or at Vanessa Croll Bennett on Instagram.
And if you have any questions for the podcast, you
can email the Pubertypodcast at gmail dot com. And if
you want to check out all of the stuff we do,
you can visit our website less awkward dot com. Because
(52:30):
everything we do is to make this stage of life
less awkward.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
God, I wish you guys existed when I was in
Jami High because I was the queen of awkward.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
Well, luckily you've grown into a beautiful, beautiful butterfly.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
There's hope for there's hope for all of us, Kelly.
If you are awkward.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Vanessa, thank you so much for being here. I love
chatting with you. We'll just have to have you back.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I feel like so fun.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
I feel like we're going to get a lost A
lot of listener emails and questions.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
From this one so great.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
Bring them on, bring them on and ship if you
If your mom wants to have like a.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
One on one, I'm totallyable.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Claudia, I can't wait to make my sister listen. I
should order the book for my sister.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah, well we'll see you guys will have the book
and then you can decide what do you want.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
To do with that. But thank you so much, thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
It was so fun.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
You guys go check out all of Essa's work again.
I will put it in the description of this podcast,
And thank you so much for listening.
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