August 21, 2023 • 35 mins
15 years after Gail’s death, Bob is put on trial. The Girlfriends, Gail’s friends and Alayne all weave together the circumstantial evidence that the prosecution believe is enough to prove Bob murdered Gail. But the defense has a secret weapon, a star witness that says he saw Gail in a bagel shop in the hours that the prosecution believe she was already dead.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Novel. Hey listener. In this episode, we talk about domestic violence, control, murder,
and disposing of a body. There's also a group of
fearless women honoring their beloved friend by holding a man accountable.
Once again, be warned to expect some swearing. This episode
(00:30):
really earns it. If you do listen and are impacted
by any of our themes, you can reach out to
No More, a domestic violence charity we've partnered with. They
have lots of great resources to help you or your
loved ones. You can find them at no More dot org.
(00:51):
That's no mor dot org. It was early in the
morning on October twelfth, two thousand. I arrived at the
Manhattan Criminal Courthouse to testify against Bob and I was terrified.
(01:13):
I remember saying to myself, just don't pass out, Carol,
don't pass out. And so with that pep talk over,
I entered the building through the revolving door. I emptied
my pockets into a tray, and I walked through the
metal detectors. Shortly after I was greeted by the prosecutors.
(01:35):
They pointed out a woman with cropped red hair and
told me it was Gail's sister Elaine. We had spoken
about her at the Mayflower a few times, but we
didn't know anything about her. She just seemed like a
traumatized sister, and that's exactly what she looked like in
the courthouse that day, traumatized but determined. Eventually, after some
(01:59):
waiting around, it was my turn to testify. I walked
out into the cavernous courtroom to see press, the judge, jury,
and Bob's new wife. And there in the chair where
people on trial sit was my ex boyfriend Bob. He
looked different, older, more tired, but he did flash me
(02:24):
this confusing smirk, a smirk till this day I still
don't understand. When I got to the witness box, the
prosecution told me to address the jury, and then came
the questions, how do you meet Mob? How long did
you date for? What did he tell you about his wife?
(02:45):
So I told him about the time I asked Bob
if he killed his wife, and when I explained how
silent and weird he got, I could see the jury
nodding along, and that's when I realized Bob was totally fucked.
(03:06):
Carol Fisher from the teams at Novel and iHeartRadio, you're
listening to The Girlfriend's Episode eight, The Girlfriends Versus Beerenbaum.
(03:47):
After I testified, I took the first flight out of
New York that I could. I was not interested in
sticking around, So I really knew very little about what
actually went down at the trial. But my brilliant researcher Maddie,
she got a hold of the transcripts, all one thousand,
five hundred and nineteen pages of them. So let's start
(04:10):
from the beginning. The trial started on October tewod two thousand,
fifteen years after Gale's death. By then the case had
gone from relative obscurity to one of the most covered
court cases in New York City. Reporter Catherine Eban made
sure she kept her front row seat.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
By then, the courtroom was full, so my colleagues in
the press corps all showed up.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Place was packed almost every day.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's Prosecutor Daniel Bibb Press took up.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
The first two rows. There was press from all over
the place, not just New York.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
In front of the press in what's called the well,
the attorney sat at two large wooden tables. The prosecution
closest to the jurors box.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
There's three of us see Sirocco, Adam Kaufman, and me
sitting at the prosecution table, which is facing the bench.
Then you have the left, probably ten feet away is
the defense table with Scott Greenfield, David Lewis, and Catherine Case.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Those were Bob's attorneys. In case that's not obvious, you
won't hear from them because they were not interested in
appearing on this podcast. Back to the courtroom, we're in
front of everybody. With a huge American flag behind her
sat the judge, Leslie Crocker Snyder.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I don't really use a gabble, except I had a
huge one that was given to me as a joke,
and occasionally I'd use it to get the jury laughing.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I remember her as a blonde haired, no nonsense judge
with a big reputation. She was not there to play.
I mean, she was very strict and tough with the attorneys.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
And then sitting at the defence table furthest away from
the jury as possible was Bob.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I remember Beerenbaum. He had this sort of stitching gloom
that hung over him, reflected in the deep shadows under
his eyes.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
The trial lasted nine long days. During that time, the
defense and prosecution agreed that Gail died at some point
on July seventh, nineteen eighty five, but that's where the
similarities end. The defense argued that there was not enough
evidence to prove that Bob killed her. Instead, they suggest
(06:39):
all kinds of things could have happened to her that day.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
They painted her as a woman with a lot of problems,
very needy, one suicidal, Realdy motivated by money. It was
quote unquote blaming the victim, which, although was pre days
of me too, I think was very distasteful. But the
portrait of both of them emerged as two people who
(07:04):
should have gotten divorced a long time before, and there
was an escalation of violent and horrible conduct.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
The defense's second tack was a bit more tangible. In fact,
it was a serious threat. At the beginning of the trial,
they told the jury that they had just one witness
to call, a star witness that swears he saw Gilcats
alive and well in the hours that the prosecution alleged
(07:35):
she was dead.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
It's a five minute acquittal if you believe this guy,
because he says he sees her at a time when
our theory is that she is dead and either in
a bag in a plane or already in the Atlantic Ocean.
Okay kills, the case dead done.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
The prosecution's goal was to do their best to undermine
the defense's case because, as the judge explained, the burden
of proof was on them. They needed to prove that
the reason Gail was dead was because Bob killed her.
In the prosecution's opening statement, Dan argued that Gail wasn't suicidal.
(08:19):
In fact, multiple friends claimed she was happier than she
had been in a while. Her psychiatrist, Sybil Baron even
remembers Gail getting a pedicure just days before she went missing.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think the line was suicides don't get pedicures.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Then there was the portrayal of Gail's a drug fiend
running with the wrong crowd. The prosecution made it clear
that this was a gross exaggeration. Her boyfriend Anthony Sigalis
said he only did coke with Gail twice, so she
certainly was not an addict.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know, everybody did cocaine in the eighties, it was everywhere.
She was not this hardcore cocaine. So some beginner coke
user all of a sudden becomes this died in the
woold coke head and gets killed by a drug dealer
who then disposed of her body. Made no sense whatsoever.
(09:14):
People get killed by drug dealers, their body is usually found,
you know. And people who die of drug overdoses, their
bodies are found.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And that was the crux of the prosecution's case. Gail's
body had never been found. And the reason they theorized
is because Bob killed Gail and threw her body out
of a plane and into the Atlantic Ocean. They just
had to prove it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
This was no easy task. We were facing no body,
no forensics, no admissions, an extremely difficult, circumstantial case based
in large part on things that the defendant had said
to his friends and his girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You've already heard a lot of what's covered throughout the trial,
our testimonies. But when I read through these transcripts, I
discovered parts of the story that I've never heard before.
Things it shocked me. I also see what Prosecutor Steve
meant when he described the trial as a production. The
prosecution called up thirty seven witnesses to the stand, all
(10:28):
of us weaving threads of circumstantial evidence together to create
an image of Bob for the jury. First up was
Bob the controlling boyfriend.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
I mean, who makes their wife have to sit on
his lap to eat dinner. It was just so strange.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
He had to control everything that they did, what they ate,
where they went.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And there was violent Bob.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
He came running and leaped over the couch, pushed her
down with his hands around her throat, and strangled her.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Sometimes a witness testimony made it seem like he wanted
to kill Gail, like telling one of his friends that
he hated Gail so much he could kill her, or
telling Gail that he would kill her if she left him.
One of the most controversial moments of the trial was
when various witnesses started bringing up the Pterosov letter from
(11:37):
doctor Stone, the letter he had written warning Gail that
Bob might kill her. The judge had disallowed this piece
of physical evidence in the pretrial hearings, but she did
not stop people from describing it in great detail.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
One of the functions of the judge in any case
is to try to balance both sides right, and I
felt that allowing testimony about the nature of a letter,
which I did with the Tarosoft letter, but not allowing
it in for the jury to see, was a balancing
of fairness to both sides.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
I'll never forget the defense arguing that having me testified
to what the letter said was almost worse than having
the letter admitted into evidence, and they may have been right.
At least it wouldn't have been the sister talking about it.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And of course it was that letter that Gail told
multiple people she was going to use to blackmail Bob,
forcing him into divorcing and continuing to pay her school tuition.
But there was also something else that came out at trial,
something I had never heard about before. Gail told her
friend Lee that she had evidence that Bob and his
(12:49):
father were involved in medicaid fraud and that she was
planning on using that information as part of her ammunition
against Bob. Gail had all this information ready to go
on Saturday, July sixth, the day before she went missing.
That day, she went to her hairdressers to the Ghana
cologist for a routine IUD checkup, and she saw friends
(13:11):
even bumping into her fling Anthony. Everyone described her as
happy and jovial and the reason she was going to
ask Bob for a divorce that weekend.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
She was going to make him dinner and then during
dinner she was going to talk to Mob about leaving.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
We have no idea what happened over that dinner, if
she told him at all, but we do know that's
not when she died. The next morning, at around ten
thirty am on July seventh, Gail picked up a call
from her former boss, Francesca Bial. Francesca wanted a doctor
recommendation from Bob, but Gail was sounding off. And that
(13:55):
is the last time anyone other than Bob saw or
heard from Gail. As multiple people testified, no one saw
her leave the apartment building, not the doorman, not the neighbors.
Gail had vanished, leaving all of her possessions, including her wallet, cigarettes,
(14:19):
credit cards, address book, and keys. This is the point
in the prosecution story where they stopped talking about Gail
and instead start talking about Bob, because, as you know,
he wasn't acting like your typical grieving husband. He was
(14:39):
constantly missing and not returning phone calls from the police.
He said the police could search his apartment, but when
the forensics team showed up, his lawyer said they could
only dust for fingerprints. He tried to avoid all the press.
He avoided putting posters up in his building. He did
not even interview the doormaan basically never felt to Gaile's
(15:01):
family and friends like Bob was driving the search. Instead.
After a couple of weeks, Bob was seen partying in
the Hampton's, dressing like he was in Saturday Night Fever
and laughing at a comedy show. And then there were
the romances like ROBERTA. Karnowski, who challenged Bob over dinner
(15:22):
about killing his wife, and Karen Carojuana is Hampton's fling.
They all testified to the prosecutors brought on a lot
of witnesses to show how everyone who interacted with Bob
after Gail's disappearance seemed to come away with a slightly
different story. I think he just didn't count on us
(15:43):
remembering everything or talking about it.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
These were all professional women who said, your wife is missing,
and you did what. My argument was that the women
here definitely would remember things like this, because again, there
but for the grace of God, go on. You know
somebody is telling you how their wife disappeared. Wouldn't that
see her into your brain?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
But, as the defense argued, all our stories were just
a smattering of circumstantial evidence. Witnesses recalling conversations they had
fifteen years ago. Is that really enough? They asked a
jury to say, beyond any reasonable doubt that Bob killed Gail,
Even after being presented with all of the evidence from
(16:31):
the Pterosoft letter, Bob's lawyer argued that the notion that
Bob controlled Gail went against the evidence. Instead, they explained
that Bob jumped into new relationships fast because why not
his wife cheated, did drugs, and ran off. Finally, the
defense referred to the moment Roberta challenged Bob over dinner,
(16:52):
saying she believed he threw Gail out of a plane,
a crackpot theory that Bob just did not need to
respond to. But Dan and Steve did have a response
to that theory, a piece of evidence that shows Roberta's
idea wasn't so crackpot after all that after the break.
(17:29):
So we all know the theory by now, where as
the defense likes to call it the Roberta theory, it's
something that the prosecution we're running with. But how do
you prove it?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Like, how could he have done that? How can you
be flying a plane and pushing a body out of
a plane?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
At the same time, we.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
Were confident that if we didn't show the jury that
this could be done, they're going to bring in somebody
and say that this is impossible.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
So we actually found the airplane that he used. It
was an upstate New York. It was a complete and
total wreck. But we used the exact same model and
an NYPD helicopter. And what we did is we put
two fifty pound bags of sand and a ten pound
(18:16):
bag of rice and a number of Duffel bags and
put him in the back of the plane and it
actually took off from Coal Airport, the same airport he used,
and then trailed by an NYPD helicopter. They flew out
over the ocean and they did three demonstrations, one where
(18:39):
he simply just pushed open the passenger side door and
pushed it out, one where he actually banked the plane
the door opened and it fell out of its own accord.
And then the third one where he's ragged the Duffel
bag across his box and put it out the pilot's
(19:03):
side door.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
And this sergeant is actually on the witness stand describing
this whole thing to the jury using the video of it.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It was very powerful I've seen this video, and for me,
it's hard to watch these bags of sand and rice
and think about a woman inside, a woman who just
the day before had done all the things that I
would do, had her hair done, laugh with the friend
in the park, and there she was in an airplane
(19:39):
with Bob, a place that I had been many times,
a place where I had seen so much beauty. She
was there in a bag.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
The jurors sat there wrapped attention, not an eyeball, wasn't
on those television screens watching that demonstration.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It was a moment that everybody paid close attention to
because it was very strange. I mean, to reenact something
that you think happened based on circumstantial evidence and no
actual proof. But essentially that was their case. That was
how they were going to build it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
The prosecution then brought out a guy named Charles McKenna
from the airline rental company, who verified the booking and
the invoice charged to beer Embaum. He confirmed that Bob
could have flown at least eighty miles out before turning
around that day. Then New York's chief medical examiner, Charles Hirsch,
described how easy it would be for a skilled surgeon
(20:48):
to dismember a body in as little as ten minutes
with the kitchen knife in order to fit it in
a duffel bag. If he acted fast enough, he may
have even been able to fold her in without the
graphic mutilation. But the real clincher to the flight theory
was when they brought out Roberta Karnofski. She told the
(21:10):
jury about the moment she and Sharon found his altered
flight lock. At this point in the trial, the prosecution
brought out a brand new piece of evidence. They had
subpoenaed Bob and forced him to turn over the original
flight log, and right there for everyone to see was
the alteration. Just as Roberta was describing it, the seventh
(21:33):
of July seventh had been crudely changed to an eight.
It's even in the wrong color ink.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I'm like Steve, this is a home run. He goes, Yeah,
why the hell didn't Burnbaum just burn the thing? And
I said, because he's anal because he saves everything. He
couldn't let it go.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But then, just as it was looking like a landslide
victory for the prosecution, the defense played the ace up
their sleeve. Their star witness oh in the weeks following
(22:19):
gales disappearance, the missing person squad received seven or eight
calls from people claiming to have seen her. Among them
was a retired textiles manufacturer, Joel Davis. On October eighteenth,
two thousand, the eighth and last day of testimony, the
(22:40):
defense called Joel to the stand.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
So Joel Davis walks to the court and says hello
to us. He's just walking in, So he takes the
stand and David Lewis takes me through direct.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Joel described how on the afternoon of July seventh, at
H and H Bagel on eighty first Street and Second Avenue,
he noticed an attractive woman wearing a distinctive T shirt
with the complex and colorful print. Three to five weeks later,
he sees Gail's missing poster and recognizes her as the
woman he saw at the bagel shop at around five
(23:14):
in the morning. He calls the missing Person's number to
report it. This was not looking good for the prosecution.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
He was pretty strong, and I think everyone in the
courtroom thought that's the end of the prosecution case. Because
he was absolutely adamant that he had seen Gail late
enough in the day so that the defendant couldn't have
killed her.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Steve's like, oh, this is a problem one.
Speaker 7 (23:38):
You're thinks she's alive when we shay she's dead. That
case is over. Down to tubes.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Steve gets up, and you know, the adage is you
don't answer a question on cross examination that you don't
know the answer to. That's not one hundred percent true.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
When Steve stepped up to question Joel, he had a
clear tactic spin Joel around enough times that he ends
up undoing his own testimony. He started by asking Joel
to clarify details like what did this woman actually look like,
to which Joel responded that the woman he saw was
with another woman carrying a large beach bag. They were
(24:19):
deeply tanned, with a lot of oil all over their bodies.
He said that he was probably in her presence for
between five and ten minutes while they waited in line
for takeout. But then it all starts getting a bit seedy.
The first thing that caught Joel's eye was her T shirt.
He was in the print business, and he was impressed
(24:40):
with the T shirt's European printing style. But then his
eyes drifted to her body, which he found very attractive.
When asked to describe her, he says her face reminded
him of a friend's sister in law, but she was
built like his ex wife, five' one, well defined and
a very good body.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
He describes her as voluptuous, like she's really built, you know,
and Gail was as flat as a board.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
He'd previously said he was pretty positive, whereas now he
was one hundred percent sure. He'd changed where he'd seen her.
He changed the clothes she was wearing. At one point,
when asked whether he saw photos of Gail, he said,
I didn't see the picture, but I did see the picture.
Speaker 8 (25:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
All he's doing is he's basically taking a knife and
he's stabbing himself in the chest with every word that
comes out of his mouth. Stevie is just spinning him
around in circles.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Steve then drilled deeper into Joel's physical description of Gail.
He pulled out some transcripts of a previous interview where
Joel had described the woman in the bagel shop as
tall and statuesque. He said he'd noticed her because he
was a leg and ass man.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
Jesus Christ, he is describing a woman that is completely
opposite of who Gail Barnbaunm was physically.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
It was kind of amusing how he described her as,
you know, so statuesque and what a great body and tall,
and then he withdrew that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
He gets so flustered and he goes, can I explain.
Steve leans down to me, he goes, what do you think?
I go one hundred percent, let him explain. He said
he's going to explode.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
He did explode with utter nonsense. Joel started fumbling and
said he did, in fact see a woman in the
bagel shop, but he confused that woman with not only Gail,
but the body of his ex wife, who was small,
and with the face of his friend's ex sister in law,
who was tall but had a similar face to Gail's.
(26:51):
If you are confused, don't worry. So is Joel, and
so is everyone in that courtroom.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
There were audible gasps from the jury, I mean audible.
And he finishes and Steve leaves down. I go sit down.
He goes, like a couple more questions. I said, sit down.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
To really put the final nail in Joel's coffin, Dan
and Steve called up Elaine with a huge photo of
Gail in a bikini.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
I went up on the witness stand and I identified
the photo and it showed a side profile of her
in the bikini, and the picture depicted her as a
flat chested woman.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
It was like a television moment, really, that witness had
been destroyed, and that doesn't really happen that often in trials.
That you're able to show that the witness was either
lying or mistaken.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
And that was it. The trial was over, the jury
was charged, and then the alternates were dismissed. You have
alternate URIs in case someone gets sick. And one of
the alternates, a beautiful woman, walked down and sat next
(28:18):
to me and she squeezed my hand and she said,
I hope they convict. And there I had yet another sister.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
After around six hours of deliberation over two days, the
jury reached their verdict.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Ladies and gentlemen, have you reached a verdict? Then a
four persons say yes, say ask to this sole count
of the indictment, trudge murder on the second degree, how
do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
I remember turning to my brother and saying, what did
they say? And he said guilty? And I said yes,
(29:39):
and I squeezed my brother's hands so hard it hurt.
And at the same time I did that, I took
my fist and I banged it on my own thigh
and I felt free at last.
Speaker 9 (29:52):
And just like that we got him.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
My sister called me.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
She said guilty, and I started screaming.
Speaker 10 (30:11):
Yeah, I'll never forget my mother calling me.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Is screaming on the phone.
Speaker 10 (30:19):
He's guilty, he's guilty, He's guilty. About fifteen times and
just sobbing, just sobbing.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
On November twenty ninth, two thousand, Judge Crocker Snyder sentenced
Bob to twenty years to life.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I tried to consider everything the evident, the horrible nature
of the crime, but also that it had been at
that point fifteen years, I guess, and that he had
done a lot of good things. Berenbaum was a horrible
person in what he did, but even if it was
to xpiate his guilt, he spent the last fifteen years
(31:12):
helping kids in Mexico and doing a lot of good things,
and in no way did that detract from the horrible
nature of the crime. But I also thought he deserved
some credit for that. The minimum would have been fifteen
to life at maximum twenty five to life, and I
gave him twenty years to life. This was a tough
(31:34):
sentence in that I felt I should factor in what
little good he had done, But it.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Was some good. When I first learned about the verdict,
I had mixed feelings. A part of me felt so
bad for Bob because I had always wanted to believe
that he was just overworked. Gail was a tough wife
and he had just snapped one moment of anger him
(32:00):
twenty years of his life. But making this series has
changed my mind. In those intervening years, Bob dated so
many women that didn't feel safe around him. He allegedly
pushed Karen out of a moving taxi. He screamed and
raged at me. He was so controlling that a therapist
(32:22):
told Stephanie that she could be in danger if she
continued to date him. He showed no empathy and no
remorse to any of Gaile's family. Bob's charity work in
Mexico treating children with cleft paletts, it was definitely good,
but I just don't think it has anything to do
(32:42):
with it. He killed a woman, a woman who was
in an intimate relationship with him, a woman just like
me or Mindy or Roberta or Stephanie or Karen. And
there's nothing to say that he couldn't have done it again.
(33:05):
If you're good at math, you've already figured out that
Bob was convicted in two thousand and finished serving his
twenty year sentence in twenty twenty, and well, there's been
some recent developments. That's next. Time on the Girlfriends.
Speaker 11 (33:21):
Oh I had twenty years of solid peace. I never
thought about Bob for twenty years anymore. And then the
Pearol's process started.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Mindy, what I've got the transcripts from Bob's parole hearing.
Oh my god, tell me what happened On July seventh,
nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 7 (33:45):
We were arguing with each other and things escalated.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
How did you attack her? Sir?
Speaker 8 (33:54):
Elaine?
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Hello, Hi, Nice to meet you, Carol and Mindy.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Nice to meet you, Elaine, very nice to meet you.
The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Ourheart Radio. For
more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The series is
(34:22):
hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Annasinfield. Our
assistant producer is Julian Manu, Gera Patten and Our researcher
is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max O'Brien
is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.
(34:43):
Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte Woolf. Sound design,
mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander. Music
supervision by Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Luisa. Story
development by Isaac Fisher. Willard Foxton is creative director of development.
(35:07):
Special thanks to Shawn Glynn, David Waters, Might, Billy Rowl,
Katrina Norvell, David Wasserman, and beth Anne Mcaluso. We did
reach out to Bob and his legal team to ask
(35:27):
if he'd like to comment on the podcast, but we
never heard back. Novel
Novel. Hey listener. In this episode, we talk about domestic violence, control, murder,
and disposing of a body. There's also a group of
fearless women honoring their beloved friend by holding a man accountable.
Once again, be warned to expect some swearing. This episode
(00:30):
really earns it. If you do listen and are impacted
by any of our themes, you can reach out to
No More, a domestic violence charity we've partnered with. They
have lots of great resources to help you or your
loved ones. You can find them at no More dot org.
(00:51):
That's no mor dot org. It was early in the
morning on October twelfth, two thousand. I arrived at the
Manhattan Criminal Courthouse to testify against Bob and I was terrified.
(01:13):
I remember saying to myself, just don't pass out, Carol,
don't pass out. And so with that pep talk over,
I entered the building through the revolving door. I emptied
my pockets into a tray, and I walked through the
metal detectors. Shortly after I was greeted by the prosecutors.
(01:35):
They pointed out a woman with cropped red hair and
told me it was Gail's sister Elaine. We had spoken
about her at the Mayflower a few times, but we
didn't know anything about her. She just seemed like a
traumatized sister, and that's exactly what she looked like in
the courthouse that day, traumatized but determined. Eventually, after some
(01:59):
waiting around, it was my turn to testify. I walked
out into the cavernous courtroom to see press, the judge, jury,
and Bob's new wife. And there in the chair where
people on trial sit was my ex boyfriend Bob. He
looked different, older, more tired, but he did flash me
(02:24):
this confusing smirk, a smirk till this day I still
don't understand. When I got to the witness box, the
prosecution told me to address the jury, and then came
the questions, how do you meet Mob? How long did
you date for? What did he tell you about his wife?
(02:45):
So I told him about the time I asked Bob
if he killed his wife, and when I explained how
silent and weird he got, I could see the jury
nodding along, and that's when I realized Bob was totally fucked.
(03:06):
Carol Fisher from the teams at Novel and iHeartRadio, you're
listening to The Girlfriend's Episode eight, The Girlfriends Versus Beerenbaum.
(03:47):
After I testified, I took the first flight out of
New York that I could. I was not interested in
sticking around, So I really knew very little about what
actually went down at the trial. But my brilliant researcher Maddie,
she got a hold of the transcripts, all one thousand,
five hundred and nineteen pages of them. So let's start
(04:10):
from the beginning. The trial started on October tewod two thousand,
fifteen years after Gale's death. By then the case had
gone from relative obscurity to one of the most covered
court cases in New York City. Reporter Catherine Eban made
sure she kept her front row seat.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
By then, the courtroom was full, so my colleagues in
the press corps all showed up.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Place was packed almost every day.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's Prosecutor Daniel Bibb Press took up.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
The first two rows. There was press from all over
the place, not just New York.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
In front of the press in what's called the well,
the attorney sat at two large wooden tables. The prosecution
closest to the jurors box.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
There's three of us see Sirocco, Adam Kaufman, and me
sitting at the prosecution table, which is facing the bench.
Then you have the left, probably ten feet away is
the defense table with Scott Greenfield, David Lewis, and Catherine Case.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Those were Bob's attorneys. In case that's not obvious, you
won't hear from them because they were not interested in
appearing on this podcast. Back to the courtroom, we're in
front of everybody. With a huge American flag behind her
sat the judge, Leslie Crocker Snyder.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I don't really use a gabble, except I had a
huge one that was given to me as a joke,
and occasionally I'd use it to get the jury laughing.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I remember her as a blonde haired, no nonsense judge
with a big reputation. She was not there to play.
I mean, she was very strict and tough with the attorneys.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
And then sitting at the defence table furthest away from
the jury as possible was Bob.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I remember Beerenbaum. He had this sort of stitching gloom
that hung over him, reflected in the deep shadows under
his eyes.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
The trial lasted nine long days. During that time, the
defense and prosecution agreed that Gail died at some point
on July seventh, nineteen eighty five, but that's where the
similarities end. The defense argued that there was not enough
evidence to prove that Bob killed her. Instead, they suggest
(06:39):
all kinds of things could have happened to her that day.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
They painted her as a woman with a lot of problems,
very needy, one suicidal, Realdy motivated by money. It was
quote unquote blaming the victim, which, although was pre days
of me too, I think was very distasteful. But the
portrait of both of them emerged as two people who
(07:04):
should have gotten divorced a long time before, and there
was an escalation of violent and horrible conduct.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
The defense's second tack was a bit more tangible. In fact,
it was a serious threat. At the beginning of the trial,
they told the jury that they had just one witness
to call, a star witness that swears he saw Gilcats
alive and well in the hours that the prosecution alleged
(07:35):
she was dead.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
It's a five minute acquittal if you believe this guy,
because he says he sees her at a time when
our theory is that she is dead and either in
a bag in a plane or already in the Atlantic Ocean.
Okay kills, the case dead done.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
The prosecution's goal was to do their best to undermine
the defense's case because, as the judge explained, the burden
of proof was on them. They needed to prove that
the reason Gail was dead was because Bob killed her.
In the prosecution's opening statement, Dan argued that Gail wasn't suicidal.
(08:19):
In fact, multiple friends claimed she was happier than she
had been in a while. Her psychiatrist, Sybil Baron even
remembers Gail getting a pedicure just days before she went missing.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think the line was suicides don't get pedicures.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Then there was the portrayal of Gail's a drug fiend
running with the wrong crowd. The prosecution made it clear
that this was a gross exaggeration. Her boyfriend Anthony Sigalis
said he only did coke with Gail twice, so she
certainly was not an addict.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know, everybody did cocaine in the eighties, it was everywhere.
She was not this hardcore cocaine. So some beginner coke
user all of a sudden becomes this died in the
woold coke head and gets killed by a drug dealer
who then disposed of her body. Made no sense whatsoever.
(09:14):
People get killed by drug dealers, their body is usually found,
you know. And people who die of drug overdoses, their
bodies are found.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And that was the crux of the prosecution's case. Gail's
body had never been found. And the reason they theorized
is because Bob killed Gail and threw her body out
of a plane and into the Atlantic Ocean. They just
had to prove it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
This was no easy task. We were facing no body,
no forensics, no admissions, an extremely difficult, circumstantial case based
in large part on things that the defendant had said
to his friends and his girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You've already heard a lot of what's covered throughout the trial,
our testimonies. But when I read through these transcripts, I
discovered parts of the story that I've never heard before.
Things it shocked me. I also see what Prosecutor Steve
meant when he described the trial as a production. The
prosecution called up thirty seven witnesses to the stand, all
(10:28):
of us weaving threads of circumstantial evidence together to create
an image of Bob for the jury. First up was
Bob the controlling boyfriend.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
I mean, who makes their wife have to sit on
his lap to eat dinner. It was just so strange.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
He had to control everything that they did, what they ate,
where they went.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And there was violent Bob.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
He came running and leaped over the couch, pushed her
down with his hands around her throat, and strangled her.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Sometimes a witness testimony made it seem like he wanted
to kill Gail, like telling one of his friends that
he hated Gail so much he could kill her, or
telling Gail that he would kill her if she left him.
One of the most controversial moments of the trial was
when various witnesses started bringing up the Pterosov letter from
(11:37):
doctor Stone, the letter he had written warning Gail that
Bob might kill her. The judge had disallowed this piece
of physical evidence in the pretrial hearings, but she did
not stop people from describing it in great detail.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
One of the functions of the judge in any case
is to try to balance both sides right, and I
felt that allowing testimony about the nature of a letter,
which I did with the Tarosoft letter, but not allowing
it in for the jury to see, was a balancing
of fairness to both sides.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
I'll never forget the defense arguing that having me testified
to what the letter said was almost worse than having
the letter admitted into evidence, and they may have been right.
At least it wouldn't have been the sister talking about it.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And of course it was that letter that Gail told
multiple people she was going to use to blackmail Bob,
forcing him into divorcing and continuing to pay her school tuition.
But there was also something else that came out at trial,
something I had never heard about before. Gail told her
friend Lee that she had evidence that Bob and his
(12:49):
father were involved in medicaid fraud and that she was
planning on using that information as part of her ammunition
against Bob. Gail had all this information ready to go
on Saturday, July sixth, the day before she went missing.
That day, she went to her hairdressers to the Ghana
cologist for a routine IUD checkup, and she saw friends
(13:11):
even bumping into her fling Anthony. Everyone described her as
happy and jovial and the reason she was going to
ask Bob for a divorce that weekend.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
She was going to make him dinner and then during
dinner she was going to talk to Mob about leaving.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
We have no idea what happened over that dinner, if
she told him at all, but we do know that's
not when she died. The next morning, at around ten
thirty am on July seventh, Gail picked up a call
from her former boss, Francesca Bial. Francesca wanted a doctor
recommendation from Bob, but Gail was sounding off. And that
(13:55):
is the last time anyone other than Bob saw or
heard from Gail. As multiple people testified, no one saw
her leave the apartment building, not the doorman, not the neighbors.
Gail had vanished, leaving all of her possessions, including her wallet, cigarettes,
(14:19):
credit cards, address book, and keys. This is the point
in the prosecution story where they stopped talking about Gail
and instead start talking about Bob, because, as you know,
he wasn't acting like your typical grieving husband. He was
(14:39):
constantly missing and not returning phone calls from the police.
He said the police could search his apartment, but when
the forensics team showed up, his lawyer said they could
only dust for fingerprints. He tried to avoid all the press.
He avoided putting posters up in his building. He did
not even interview the doormaan basically never felt to Gaile's
(15:01):
family and friends like Bob was driving the search. Instead.
After a couple of weeks, Bob was seen partying in
the Hampton's, dressing like he was in Saturday Night Fever
and laughing at a comedy show. And then there were
the romances like ROBERTA. Karnowski, who challenged Bob over dinner
(15:22):
about killing his wife, and Karen Carojuana is Hampton's fling.
They all testified to the prosecutors brought on a lot
of witnesses to show how everyone who interacted with Bob
after Gail's disappearance seemed to come away with a slightly
different story. I think he just didn't count on us
(15:43):
remembering everything or talking about it.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
These were all professional women who said, your wife is missing,
and you did what. My argument was that the women
here definitely would remember things like this, because again, there
but for the grace of God, go on. You know
somebody is telling you how their wife disappeared. Wouldn't that
see her into your brain?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
But, as the defense argued, all our stories were just
a smattering of circumstantial evidence. Witnesses recalling conversations they had
fifteen years ago. Is that really enough? They asked a
jury to say, beyond any reasonable doubt that Bob killed Gail,
Even after being presented with all of the evidence from
(16:31):
the Pterosoft letter, Bob's lawyer argued that the notion that
Bob controlled Gail went against the evidence. Instead, they explained
that Bob jumped into new relationships fast because why not
his wife cheated, did drugs, and ran off. Finally, the
defense referred to the moment Roberta challenged Bob over dinner,
(16:52):
saying she believed he threw Gail out of a plane,
a crackpot theory that Bob just did not need to
respond to. But Dan and Steve did have a response
to that theory, a piece of evidence that shows Roberta's
idea wasn't so crackpot after all that after the break.
(17:29):
So we all know the theory by now, where as
the defense likes to call it the Roberta theory, it's
something that the prosecution we're running with. But how do
you prove it?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Like, how could he have done that? How can you
be flying a plane and pushing a body out of
a plane?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
At the same time, we.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
Were confident that if we didn't show the jury that
this could be done, they're going to bring in somebody
and say that this is impossible.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
So we actually found the airplane that he used. It
was an upstate New York. It was a complete and
total wreck. But we used the exact same model and
an NYPD helicopter. And what we did is we put
two fifty pound bags of sand and a ten pound
(18:16):
bag of rice and a number of Duffel bags and
put him in the back of the plane and it
actually took off from Coal Airport, the same airport he used,
and then trailed by an NYPD helicopter. They flew out
over the ocean and they did three demonstrations, one where
(18:39):
he simply just pushed open the passenger side door and
pushed it out, one where he actually banked the plane
the door opened and it fell out of its own accord.
And then the third one where he's ragged the Duffel
bag across his box and put it out the pilot's
(19:03):
side door.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
And this sergeant is actually on the witness stand describing
this whole thing to the jury using the video of it.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It was very powerful I've seen this video, and for me,
it's hard to watch these bags of sand and rice
and think about a woman inside, a woman who just
the day before had done all the things that I
would do, had her hair done, laugh with the friend
in the park, and there she was in an airplane
(19:39):
with Bob, a place that I had been many times,
a place where I had seen so much beauty. She
was there in a bag.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
The jurors sat there wrapped attention, not an eyeball, wasn't
on those television screens watching that demonstration.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It was a moment that everybody paid close attention to
because it was very strange. I mean, to reenact something
that you think happened based on circumstantial evidence and no
actual proof. But essentially that was their case. That was
how they were going to build it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
The prosecution then brought out a guy named Charles McKenna
from the airline rental company, who verified the booking and
the invoice charged to beer Embaum. He confirmed that Bob
could have flown at least eighty miles out before turning
around that day. Then New York's chief medical examiner, Charles Hirsch,
described how easy it would be for a skilled surgeon
(20:48):
to dismember a body in as little as ten minutes
with the kitchen knife in order to fit it in
a duffel bag. If he acted fast enough, he may
have even been able to fold her in without the
graphic mutilation. But the real clincher to the flight theory
was when they brought out Roberta Karnofski. She told the
(21:10):
jury about the moment she and Sharon found his altered
flight lock. At this point in the trial, the prosecution
brought out a brand new piece of evidence. They had
subpoenaed Bob and forced him to turn over the original
flight log, and right there for everyone to see was
the alteration. Just as Roberta was describing it, the seventh
(21:33):
of July seventh had been crudely changed to an eight.
It's even in the wrong color ink.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I'm like Steve, this is a home run. He goes, Yeah,
why the hell didn't Burnbaum just burn the thing? And
I said, because he's anal because he saves everything. He
couldn't let it go.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But then, just as it was looking like a landslide
victory for the prosecution, the defense played the ace up
their sleeve. Their star witness oh in the weeks following
(22:19):
gales disappearance, the missing person squad received seven or eight
calls from people claiming to have seen her. Among them
was a retired textiles manufacturer, Joel Davis. On October eighteenth,
two thousand, the eighth and last day of testimony, the
(22:40):
defense called Joel to the stand.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
So Joel Davis walks to the court and says hello
to us. He's just walking in, So he takes the
stand and David Lewis takes me through direct.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Joel described how on the afternoon of July seventh, at
H and H Bagel on eighty first Street and Second Avenue,
he noticed an attractive woman wearing a distinctive T shirt
with the complex and colorful print. Three to five weeks later,
he sees Gail's missing poster and recognizes her as the
woman he saw at the bagel shop at around five
(23:14):
in the morning. He calls the missing Person's number to
report it. This was not looking good for the prosecution.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
He was pretty strong, and I think everyone in the
courtroom thought that's the end of the prosecution case. Because
he was absolutely adamant that he had seen Gail late
enough in the day so that the defendant couldn't have
killed her.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Steve's like, oh, this is a problem one.
Speaker 7 (23:38):
You're thinks she's alive when we shay she's dead. That
case is over. Down to tubes.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Steve gets up, and you know, the adage is you
don't answer a question on cross examination that you don't
know the answer to. That's not one hundred percent true.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
When Steve stepped up to question Joel, he had a
clear tactic spin Joel around enough times that he ends
up undoing his own testimony. He started by asking Joel
to clarify details like what did this woman actually look like,
to which Joel responded that the woman he saw was
with another woman carrying a large beach bag. They were
(24:19):
deeply tanned, with a lot of oil all over their bodies.
He said that he was probably in her presence for
between five and ten minutes while they waited in line
for takeout. But then it all starts getting a bit seedy.
The first thing that caught Joel's eye was her T shirt.
He was in the print business, and he was impressed
(24:40):
with the T shirt's European printing style. But then his
eyes drifted to her body, which he found very attractive.
When asked to describe her, he says her face reminded
him of a friend's sister in law, but she was
built like his ex wife, five' one, well defined and
a very good body.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
He describes her as voluptuous, like she's really built, you know,
and Gail was as flat as a board.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
He'd previously said he was pretty positive, whereas now he
was one hundred percent sure. He'd changed where he'd seen her.
He changed the clothes she was wearing. At one point,
when asked whether he saw photos of Gail, he said,
I didn't see the picture, but I did see the picture.
Speaker 8 (25:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
All he's doing is he's basically taking a knife and
he's stabbing himself in the chest with every word that
comes out of his mouth. Stevie is just spinning him
around in circles.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Steve then drilled deeper into Joel's physical description of Gail.
He pulled out some transcripts of a previous interview where
Joel had described the woman in the bagel shop as
tall and statuesque. He said he'd noticed her because he
was a leg and ass man.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
Jesus Christ, he is describing a woman that is completely
opposite of who Gail Barnbaunm was physically.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
It was kind of amusing how he described her as,
you know, so statuesque and what a great body and tall,
and then he withdrew that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
He gets so flustered and he goes, can I explain.
Steve leans down to me, he goes, what do you think?
I go one hundred percent, let him explain. He said
he's going to explode.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
He did explode with utter nonsense. Joel started fumbling and
said he did, in fact see a woman in the
bagel shop, but he confused that woman with not only Gail,
but the body of his ex wife, who was small,
and with the face of his friend's ex sister in law,
who was tall but had a similar face to Gail's.
(26:51):
If you are confused, don't worry. So is Joel, and
so is everyone in that courtroom.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
There were audible gasps from the jury, I mean audible.
And he finishes and Steve leaves down. I go sit down.
He goes, like a couple more questions. I said, sit down.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
To really put the final nail in Joel's coffin, Dan
and Steve called up Elaine with a huge photo of
Gail in a bikini.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
I went up on the witness stand and I identified
the photo and it showed a side profile of her
in the bikini, and the picture depicted her as a
flat chested woman.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
It was like a television moment, really, that witness had
been destroyed, and that doesn't really happen that often in trials.
That you're able to show that the witness was either
lying or mistaken.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
And that was it. The trial was over, the jury
was charged, and then the alternates were dismissed. You have
alternate URIs in case someone gets sick. And one of
the alternates, a beautiful woman, walked down and sat next
(28:18):
to me and she squeezed my hand and she said,
I hope they convict. And there I had yet another sister.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
After around six hours of deliberation over two days, the
jury reached their verdict.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Ladies and gentlemen, have you reached a verdict? Then a
four persons say yes, say ask to this sole count
of the indictment, trudge murder on the second degree, how
do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
I remember turning to my brother and saying, what did
they say? And he said guilty? And I said yes,
(29:39):
and I squeezed my brother's hands so hard it hurt.
And at the same time I did that, I took
my fist and I banged it on my own thigh
and I felt free at last.
Speaker 9 (29:52):
And just like that we got him.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
My sister called me.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
She said guilty, and I started screaming.
Speaker 10 (30:11):
Yeah, I'll never forget my mother calling me.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Is screaming on the phone.
Speaker 10 (30:19):
He's guilty, he's guilty, He's guilty. About fifteen times and
just sobbing, just sobbing.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
On November twenty ninth, two thousand, Judge Crocker Snyder sentenced
Bob to twenty years to life.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I tried to consider everything the evident, the horrible nature
of the crime, but also that it had been at
that point fifteen years, I guess, and that he had
done a lot of good things. Berenbaum was a horrible
person in what he did, but even if it was
to xpiate his guilt, he spent the last fifteen years
(31:12):
helping kids in Mexico and doing a lot of good things,
and in no way did that detract from the horrible
nature of the crime. But I also thought he deserved
some credit for that. The minimum would have been fifteen
to life at maximum twenty five to life, and I
gave him twenty years to life. This was a tough
(31:34):
sentence in that I felt I should factor in what
little good he had done, But it.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Was some good. When I first learned about the verdict,
I had mixed feelings. A part of me felt so
bad for Bob because I had always wanted to believe
that he was just overworked. Gail was a tough wife
and he had just snapped one moment of anger him
(32:00):
twenty years of his life. But making this series has
changed my mind. In those intervening years, Bob dated so
many women that didn't feel safe around him. He allegedly
pushed Karen out of a moving taxi. He screamed and
raged at me. He was so controlling that a therapist
(32:22):
told Stephanie that she could be in danger if she
continued to date him. He showed no empathy and no
remorse to any of Gaile's family. Bob's charity work in
Mexico treating children with cleft paletts, it was definitely good,
but I just don't think it has anything to do
(32:42):
with it. He killed a woman, a woman who was
in an intimate relationship with him, a woman just like
me or Mindy or Roberta or Stephanie or Karen. And
there's nothing to say that he couldn't have done it again.
(33:05):
If you're good at math, you've already figured out that
Bob was convicted in two thousand and finished serving his
twenty year sentence in twenty twenty, and well, there's been
some recent developments. That's next. Time on the Girlfriends.
Speaker 11 (33:21):
Oh I had twenty years of solid peace. I never
thought about Bob for twenty years anymore. And then the
Pearol's process started.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Mindy, what I've got the transcripts from Bob's parole hearing.
Oh my god, tell me what happened On July seventh,
nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 7 (33:45):
We were arguing with each other and things escalated.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
How did you attack her? Sir?
Speaker 8 (33:54):
Elaine?
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Hello, Hi, Nice to meet you, Carol and Mindy.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Nice to meet you, Elaine, very nice to meet you.
The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Ourheart Radio. For
more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The series is
(34:22):
hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Annasinfield. Our
assistant producer is Julian Manu, Gera Patten and Our researcher
is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max O'Brien
is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.
(34:43):
Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte Woolf. Sound design,
mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander. Music
supervision by Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Luisa. Story
development by Isaac Fisher. Willard Foxton is creative director of development.
(35:07):
Special thanks to Shawn Glynn, David Waters, Might, Billy Rowl,
Katrina Norvell, David Wasserman, and beth Anne Mcaluso. We did
reach out to Bob and his legal team to ask
(35:27):
if he'd like to comment on the podcast, but we
never heard back. Novel
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