September 26, 2023 • 47 mins
Today on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, critics continue to pile on Zach Wilson while Mac Jones cup-checks Sauce Gardner. Andy Reid justifiably calls out the inconsistencies in officiating this season and Marcus Freeman explains what happened at the end of the game between Notre Dame and Ohio State.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar arrings, rating Win and Jonas Knox on Box Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So as the world turns and the day of our lives,
well listen the days of our lives or hard Knocks.
I I'd actually be more interested in Hard Knocks covering
the Jets now than I would have been during it
before the season.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Good call, it is.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Falling apart, man, it is Joe Namaths Aaron Zach Wilson
out now telling him what go back up, Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's a. That's a.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
That's a little unfair. But Broadway Joe, hold on now, Yeah,
because Broadway is old. Man, Come on, he's old.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know. Well, I mean, I'm not sure it's it's
no one's picking on him. It's it's the other way around.
But yeah, I know, I mean, I'm just I thought
he was still trying to kiss Susie Colebro.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Does leave Willie Joe alone? Man, y'all just let let
no one's picking on Willie Joe.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I'm saying he's gotta stuff picking on Zach dude, that's
not He should be supporting the young buck, not throw
him under the bus.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, no, but he don't know that. He's not supporting it. Man,
you know he's old.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
I mean, that'd be like you coming out after I've
du a Carter after that Week one game.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Damn. Yeah, not ideal.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Here's the thing is, And I told it floor that
was his floor, I know, but that way that that
first game. I watched the tape and when when you
were talking about it air, I was like, I know
why he's bad.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I know exactly why you said it too.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You want to say it out loud, and I didn't
want to say it out loud either.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I know exactly what right it was. Week one, we
say we saw the same thing I saw, you saw.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
He saw you saw the same saying, but that baby
showed up on sap third day. It's pain the rest
of the way. Man, jeez, I saw him speed up
the week before. But yeah, you're right back to Willie Joe. Yeah,
leave Willy Joe.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Alone, man, you tell him to leave Zach Wilson alone.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
He did go at him though, he did.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Like it's getting a little more than like it's that
getting personal, you know, And that's where I'm like.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's also getting it's also getting lazy. Like, we get it, Zach, Well,
Zach Wilson didn't draft himself. He's not the one who's
defiantly sticking by himself. Like the Jets are they weren't.
They're telling him to go out there, they're not making
any moves. Apparently Matt Ryan's not interested in the job either,
so apparently that's not going to happen. Uh, you know,
(02:31):
he's just his agent's out there floating stuff out there
or whatever it's, whatever's going on there. But I just
feel like the Zach Wilson stuff, it's now reached to
point to where people are piling on.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
That's a toxic relationship.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
But it's not his It's it's his fault that he's
not playing well, but it's not his fault that they
keep sending him out there and he didn't draft himself.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Is there a possibility, is there the possibility that his
woes are attributed to something, maybe other than just himself.
Is there a possibility that the blame game could actually
solely lie somewhere else, on someone else, someone else?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I don't know, I mean, is that a possibility?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I don't. I don't think we know.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It's more than just one person, right.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I also think like we never got to see
them with Aaron Rodgers, and then without him, we just
got four plays, so we have no idea what they
really would have been with.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I mean, Aaron Rodgers didn't get hurt by the air.
Aaron Rodgers didn't get hurt other than by getting a
physically contacted on a physically contacted play.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
We do know that.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Are you blaming the offensive line.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
For Aaron Rodgers? I am, I mean, not for Zach Wilson.
I'm just saying, I mean, it ain't like he didn't
get hit. When he got hurt, he did get it
was the offensive line with someone's fault. Just saying, I
just wonder if there's something else there with Zach Wilson.
Is Zach Wilson detached and not even know knowing he's
(04:10):
in detached mode? Is he in like preservation mode? Like
these people.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Don't like me.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Some people don't respond well when they feel like they're
constantly under that type of pressure.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Even procu they would respond well if you feel like
people don't like them.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Some do.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Some people do, man, some people one likes me, but
f these guys, Yeah, some people do.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Some people like they can thrive in it.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
I don't know how. I don't like that. I'm kind
of like sensitive. But some people can.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I've never seen anyone who can. They Usually people want
to be liked, you know, I don't know, man, I'm
not saying that they don't want to be liked.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
I'm just saying, so shut up, Joan. I'm just saying
some people want. Some people want, are okay with those conditions,
like they can thrive it. I'll tell you somebody who
classically was like that. Brian Cox was like that. Like
Brian Cox didn't like, didn't care if anybody liked him
or not. A matter of fact, Brian Cox could tell
(05:11):
you another team's fans, his team's fans f off like
like he could. He didn't care. Like some guys, they
just don't care. They're they're just wired to be detached,
like from whatever it is that they're detached from. I
just feel like Zach Wilson is in a toxic relationship, man,
Like this is a classic toxic relationship, Like let's make up,
(05:35):
to break up, break up, the makeup, like it's it's I.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Don't know, I know he's bad.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I'm not making any I'm not making any excuses for
the dude. I'm just saying, is there a possibility that
there's another aspect to this bad relationship other than just
drafting him? I mean, is there something else there is there?
Could they be calling the games differently for him to
have success? Could is there something that could make Zach
(06:05):
Wilson not as unlikable and as bad as he's been
as their quarterback.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I'm just I don't know. There's a lot here that
I think we're really milking this thing.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, I'm just if you have something, I mean, I
am not in mine. He's so bad, it's so bad,
it's so bad. I mean, is there something? Could there
be something else? He's in the league as a number
like a top draft pick, got we look at him,
you said, we said lazy take. We don't write lazy
take to say Zach is bad.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
The thing is, we don't know what they are with
a significantly better quarterback. If the rosters as good as
it is and they've got a better quarterback and Aaron Rodgers,
how good are they? Because we never got to see it.
All we got to see was when Mike White came
in last year. There was a spark at least early on,
like there was there was something there, and so I
(06:59):
just I feel like it's piling on at this point.
It is what it is. As we talked about yesterday,
they're the same team they were last year, like there's
really no difference, like except they don't have as many
wins at this point as they did last year. It
just it feels like at this point people are just
you know, grabbing at the same old, same old line
they've been using. Zach Wilson stinks and he's a bus
(07:20):
and it's probably not very fun for that guy to
even walk around town, if he even does, or it's
got to be a pretty rough time and a pretty
rough start to his career, which a lot of people
who criticize him, a lot of fans or people in
the media who take shots at him, they have no
idea probably what that guy goes through on a daily basis,
or what his comments are like or what. And now
(07:42):
you got Joe Namath taking shots at him for, you know,
for whatever his reasoning is. So in that regard, I
feel bad for Zach Wilson, but you know, at least
you know, he didn't get hitting the nuts like a
Sauce Gardner did on Sunday, so at.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Least that was mac Jones.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Now, is there any doubt in your mind that Sauce
Garner was hitting the nuts because I watched the tape
on that and it looks like a clear nutshot, pretty definitive.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Big little little cup check for you.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You know how y'all feel about that? Not good?
Speaker 5 (08:17):
I heard for any man that gets hitting the groin,
any man, any shot to the grol Oh, God, like
that is weird.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That's where we're all connected, Okay.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
I don't care what your religion is, your politics, what
teams you were for. I don't care what you say
to me. If if you don't like it, if you
hate me, if you get hitting the groin, buddy, I
look at you and I feel sympathy.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
All right. It is like there there's a connection between all.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Of us, and as soon as you see someone take
a nuts shot, everyone kind of just goes, oh, come together.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That feels Democrat, Republican together.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
That's that was where the politics were covered there. But
no racial lines, nothing facts.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I don't care. Big house, little house, doesn't matter. Homeless,
big car, little car, you get hit square the nuts
feet no feet.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Have you guys ever been inadvertently hitting the nuts by
your kids, like picking them up and they kick.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
All the time. You know what you haven't experienced yet,
but you're going to. Andrew isn't old enough or probably
not tall enough where when you pick him up, they
like flutter their legs.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
He'll get yeah down, put me down.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He did it two weeks ago, and can My wife's
looking at me like, come on, we gotta go, like
hold on a second hold issue?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
You never.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
It's you know, like y'all get birth, but we get
kicked in them and we get kicked there, and there's
something to be said about that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, it is. It's very uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
There is something to be said.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, just wait a second, when do you think what
do you think because this is now multiple times that
Mat Jones has pulled some stuff like this, When do
you think the NFL do.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
You think they're going to do anything? We would have
heard something about.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That he's a repeat offender, like shouldn't they do something
at this point?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I mean, if it's a film like Thattshot Defender.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well no, he's a repeat offender in that he kicked
who was it already Burns? He gator rolled him like
he rolled up on his legs. He kicked who was
it that he that he kicked in the.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Groin after interception?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, he like like slid and kick somebody in the
groin last year. Like it feels like this has happened
a lot with Mac Jones.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Good for Mac Jones, not just being like, you know,
a lame duck or anything like that. Like you fight
for your rights to pullarty.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Interesting to go after sauce, Mac and sauce. I'll be
honest with you. If there's one way of taking a
guy to the game, that's one way of doing it.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean, geez, I don't know how to respond
to that. Radio I kind of agree.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Have you ever cup somebody was trying to rough you
up during a game?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
First of all, anybody have ever experienced somebody wearing a cup?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
What like? Or would you know that somebody had a.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Couple That's what they called a cup check.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It's called a cup check for the reason.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
There was in high school nobody ever wear In high school,
we had this assistant coach and he used to come
around and he was also a coach on the baseball team,
and we come around with an aluminum bat and just
walk up to you pop, make sure you're wearing a cup.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
And that this sounds more like child abuse now yeah,
but wow, I'll be honest with that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Coach Chance was the best man?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
What's the beast?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Did you touch us in our No, not.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
A little and now explains a whole lot cute. Hey,
like now now we understand a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Why Jonas is the way.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The little little easton thirty four thirty two right to
the groin to make sure you're wearing your protective stuff.
Nothing all that.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It was then.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
I'm not trying to make a dark subject, but you
you might have gotten abused a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Bro Coach Chanson, who's the best?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Based on that story?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That was a good guy? Oh wow, good guy made
sure you're wearing your cup. But the point is inter
over under for real, over under twenty five thousand dollars
on the fine for Mac Jones for hitting Sauce Gardener
in the downstairs bathroom.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
I'm gonna take an under on that one. Be like ten, I.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Think so pretty dirty, pretty blatant.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
It was on video, it was pretty blatant.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I'm gonna take the over, You gonna take the over.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
That's pretty h going to.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Set an example here, make an example of mac Jones.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
That's pretty high. But I said, you said a repeat
a fedder. Has he done this before?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Okay? So there was a guy last year who on
an interception he like kicked him in the groin or something.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
There was there was he tried to trip him when
it was like running by.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
But there was already burns of the Panthers his rookie
year that he rolled up his leg that they were
complaining about. And then there was another one last year.
So it feels like there's been at least three to
into the incidents at this point in his career. That's
what I'm wondering. So I'm gonna say twenty five thousand
and I'll take the over.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Okay, by the way, yeah, I would say there has
to be some sort of punishment here. I mean, you
just can't allow guys going around nut checking each other
the whole time.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
You can't do it. You just can't do it.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
You're gonna have guys like bent over keeled over people
in the stands. They be killed over for those people.
I mean, seriously, is there any anything else in this
world where dudes see another guy get hitting the nuts
and they don't just go oh man and like you're
It almost affects your stomach, like, hey, you want to
go get some neat.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I'm not really hungry right now. I saw this guy
get hitting the nuts. Now I can't even.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Think about You know what's funny though, you either instantly
give the solution as to what he should do.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Backwards your solution. By the way, if.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Somebody hit me in the nuts, yeah, do you land
your back, put your pull your legs in. I'm gonna
beat his ass. Q Oh no, no, I'm like I'm going.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I'm not. I'm not going for a solution.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
As to how I kid accidentally hits you in the nuts, Like.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
I mean you're killed. Well, that's different. That's different that
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Somebody purposely hit me there, we're.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Going to war. You're gonna have to whoop me.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
If I accidentally got hit in the in the nuts,
I don't think I have.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
But I never had a plan or a solution for it.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
I just grab them, you know, I just grab them
and I go. I think that's every time I've got hit. Yeah,
I think I kind of make that weird noise and
kind of like talk myself through the pain.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
That is a noise one more time for me? What
is yours internal?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What is what my reaction getting hit?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah sounds.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Damn nice. Same, That's it. That's all I got.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I really had to aim for it. Yeah, like you
really like I gotta find is like land a plane
on a stamp.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And also, I'll be honest with you when Andrew gummy
like kick cereal.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
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Speaker 2 (15:27):
Andy Reid, the head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs,
is not happy everybody remembers the season opener with Juwan Taylor,
the tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs, who appeared to
be lining up off sides virtually the entire game. There
were a lot of complaints about it. Why aren't the
officials making the call? Et cetera, et cetera. So he's
been flagged a bunch of times since that has happened,
(15:50):
and Andy Reid apparently thinks there's some inconsistencies when it
comes to how this whole thing is being officiated.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Yeah, no chance to look at it even doubled more
on what I said yesterday. I mean, I just think, uh,
you know, they've got an eye on them, and they
better keep an eye on everybody else too, because it's
to the point of being ridiculous. They got their point,
their point proves now out there to the world, so
(16:17):
let's uh make sure we're staying consistent.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So that was Andy Reid talking about the whole situation.
Does feel like they're they're trying to make good for
what possibly was officiating airs early in the season, and
so now they've got an eye on Juwan Taylor and
they just keep calling him and calling him and calling
him for penalties now. So it feels like, to Andy
(16:42):
Reid's point, they're trying to make a statement and trying
to make good for whatever wrongdoing they did early on
in the season because they were kind of clowned and
exposed for it on social media and other platforms. So
there's there's a we're at when it comes to the
NFL officiating thus far, which.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
I think you could make the case that it's one
of the things that everyone's glossed over this year so
far because of the various storylines and what we've seen
in the first few weeks, But the officiating is as
inconsistent as it's ever been. I mean, go back we
talked about of the Baltimore Indianapolis game. I mean, that's
past interference on Zay Flowers that completely changes the dynamic
(17:18):
of the game. Baltimore is probably still undefeated, Indianapolis obviously
suffers a loss, and.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yet it doesn't get called somehow.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
That's probably the one thing that stands out the most
in regards to the timing of when defenders are hitting
targeted receivers is for whatever reason, you know they're they're
kind of giving the defender the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not sure if that's something that they've tried to
touch on it from time to time, or they're just
missing it and flat out can't see it. But it
seems like there's a lot of inconsistencies between games and
(17:50):
week by week in regards to how things are being
called and how things are being officiated.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I think holts are way more egregious this year than
I've seen, Like the type types of holds that take
place and not being called. I've seen some pretty pretty
wild holes that weren't called. Like just I don't know,
but it is inconsistent, and it's I don't know. I
(18:15):
think you I think if you're I guess, if you're
giving yourself an opportunity to try to enjoy the game,
you almost have to block out the fact or accept
the fact that the referees have been and will always
be a part of your happiness or your sadness as
(18:36):
it applies to watching a game, and you just have
to accept that as part of the conditions of the game.
Like if it's raining, you got to accept the fact
that it might be a different game because of the weather.
Like you got to accept that you're going to get
calls during the game that you're not going to like,
or you're going to not get calls and you're not going.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
To like that you didn't get the calls.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I just it just depends on what's you fall on
on which team and what you would like to see.
But referees, it's just always This is the one thing
I will say, A referee will never ever get it right.
There will never in our lifetime or anybody else's lifetime,
as long as sports exist where referees get it completely
(19:22):
right and people are like, oh, this is this is
like this is how you ref a game. Like it'll
never happen ever.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
But that's why we have replay, so if they make
a mistaken we can fix them mistass.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
But you you would need replay if we're really talking
about all the things that you need to nitpick on it.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
If it was the right call or not, it would
be every play.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
There's also did you see the Alexander Madison fumble that
was ruled his forward progress was stopped in the Chargers game?
What the hell call was that it was ruled a
fumble on the field and then even with replay, they
went back and looked at it and said forward progress stopped. No,
it wasn't like if you watch the play, but if
they they slowed it down and said, okay, we're going
(20:06):
to go back. So there's just there's been things like
Mike Evans pushed off so blatantly in the Bears game
last weekend that like even I think Tampa Bay was
looking around, going you serious, I didn't get called for that,
like Mike Evans broke off.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
That would have made the difference in the game. Yes, yeah, yes,
they probably would have won.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And let me tell you something, if that, if they
would have called that penalty Alan Williams House did wouldn't
have been raided by the FBI.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Okay, yeah, he ran right into it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No FBI rad if Alan Williams and the Bears get
that call there in that game.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, so no, who was that? That's how they'd be knocking.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So right, Yeah, that's how it goes. But yeah, I
just I look at it and I go to Andy
Reid's point, there's just some stuff you can look at
every single game and go, but you're calling that and
not this, Like you're doing that and you're not doing that,
and it just feels like it's the same story. And
I don't know if is officiating getting worse?
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean you have less tenured officials and the
NFL is resistant to wanting to add an extra official
and look deep playing Dana Mike Prayer always like, well,
what's that going to solve? I'm like, it just gives
you an extra set of eyes. It gives you an
extra set of eyes down there in the field. If
you're not going to implement replay to the extent that
(21:28):
allows you to be able to see everything. Why not
have someone else out there too that can help out
make these calls. I mean, even though every official that's
out there in the field has a specific job, you
could still take off that out there plate to a
degree and it gives someone else down there to say, hey,
here's what I saw from this angle, or here's what
I saw you have.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
At the college level.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
And it's either that or it's like, we got to
implement a way of using replay that allows us to
get the result that we're.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Looking for I have.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
That's the another thing. What's that of a solution? A suggestion?
We're going into a day and age, a time where
the advances of technology are so amazing. The entire field
is a is a green screen, right, Like it's it's
(22:17):
all green screen. So why not just get artificial intelligence
to you know, connect to the green screen and then
have it call when it detects a penalty, a foul of.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Some sort, and then boom, the flag is thrown.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
I mean they go to another They go to New
York every single time that they want to discuss a
play anyway, right, they call this confused by where you
first said, like, well, just sense if you had, like say,
if you had artificial intelligence like monitoring the game.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
First off, artificial intelligence isn't quite there yet. I mean,
if you but we're getting in Texas like they're unfortunately
was a traffic jam because they had twenty driverless car
as they couldn't figure where the hell to go.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yes, loser, But then you have a manual driver there,
and that's where you have the referees on the field.
So if the artificial intelligence has like like a malfunction
of some sort while you're you're hashing it out.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
You know, then look, the guys on the field take
over until they they unmix it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
I mean, I'm just saying, and I'm being I'm being
sarcastic because honestly he did have. If you did have
artificial intelligence or like bots or something calling the games,
there would literally be two or three flags on every
single place.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Like robotomps in baseball. Yeah, okay, like the electronics strike zones.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
But if you're scanning the field for like the hands
are you're holding, or formations or like what Andy Reid
is talking about, if if you felt like he's he's
lined up properly or versus not properly, if it's a
rule break or not. If you program those rules into
the system, I mean, you would have a you would
(24:06):
have more than one flag.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You probably have on average. I mean you'd have a
lot of flags per play.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I mean, if you really took human era out of
the calls, you're going to have a flag on every play,
especially from old lineman. And you know I'm biased to that,
but you're going to have a flag from old Lineman
pretty much every play. Yeah, and you probably have a
pass interference on every single pass.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, it just says what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
How many holding penalties did Joe Thomas getting his career?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Lee?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Is there a stat on that? How many times did
your Yeah? I would say it's under ten for sure.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
They said, well, isn't the stat crazy for Walter Jones
in terms of holds, like he never had a holding
call in his career or something like that. I don't know,
I mean it was something like that. It was something crazy.
It was gotty when you heard it, Like, how does
he not get that? I know he helped me a
few times, uh, Lee.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Lee, we got an update on Joe thomas career holds?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Wow?
Speaker 7 (25:07):
Well was it just four and one? Is it four altogether?
Four in one seas? I'm sorry, give me a second.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, apparently we.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Don't have it. But uh, you know, well, Walter Jones
I believe was.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Nine forty eight, forty eight holds in his career and
he got voted into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
That's where you have to look at how many snaps
he played as well, I mean do that by by
the amount of snaps he played.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
How many sacks do you think Joe Thomas gave up zero?
Really his entire career and they never gave a one sack.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
That's why I feel Powell.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Damn zero. All right, we'll get the answers on that
hardy wa.
Speaker 7 (25:50):
And that was forty eight complete penalties in his career.
That includes false starts, in eligible downfield calls, which I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
By the way, an eligible downfield that's not his.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Hell we're talking about right.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Now, ineligible down ineligible downfield is not his fault, just
because they can't get a screen pass operator.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So we're gonna wipe that out, so we'll put it
in on it.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Why don't we get so locked in on Joe, I mean,
Walter Jones. You know Walter Jones. Well, I think you
got locked in on Walter Jones. Jonas got locked in on.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Joe Thomas, Thomas and Joey T Babe.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Lee got locked in on trying to get the internet
to he couldn't get and he got locked Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Well we'll get the answers on how many sacks Joe
Thomas gave up in his career, Oh jeez, at some
point zero course. Uh and also if you can check
Walter Jones as well too, just so we're uh, you know,
we're not offending everybody.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Oh my gosh, all right, there were a lot of
people that were offended by you just now, Jonas, I
know they were. Yeah, they were like, oh Jonas, Yeah
he finally showed I got you.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah. I was just trying to help you out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Lee was one of them. By the way, we are
brought to.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You back exactly what did that? Now? It makes it sorry.
I appreciate Lee Roy. We are.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We are brought to you by Graduate Hotels, your college
game day headquarters, with more than thirty hotels in all
your favorite college towns. Book a stay this season and
check this out. You save up to thirty percent that's right,
thirty percent with the code two pros at Graduatehotels dot Com.
That's two pros at Graduatehotels dot Com. Two pros and
(27:25):
a cup of Joe here on Fox Sports Radio Priz.
So quickly, Lee, we got about thirty seconds here. What
have we unveiled? When it comes to Joe Thomas and
the number of holes in his career?
Speaker 7 (27:35):
According to Pro Football Focus, he did allow thirty sacks
in his career. That's over six thousand snaps.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, so that's a sax. And then the holes we're
still working on. We're at fourteen and counting. We're at
the last season.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
We're at fifteen holding penalties.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Wow, how about that and thirty sacks allowed? Yeah, I
question the thirty number. I'm going to say it's more
like about two or three.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But I said zero.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, just for the record, And we're going to get
to Walter Jones coming up an hour four. That's right,
of the program that happened there before.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
What do you think I'm not entertaining. I'm not even
entertaining im qu all.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Right, be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros
and a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn LeVar Errington
and Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am PACIFICO.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Polly Foosco here with Tony Fusco.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yo.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Of course you know us as the host of the
number one rated show and all the sports talks, The
Paully and Tony Fusco Show.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Now, the suits at Fox Sports Radio gave us this
ad time because they wanted us to.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Tell you how great our show is. Why.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, Instead of us doing that, let's just let our
millions of fans do the talker. Yeah, play the tape.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
You don't know crap about four am. I own this crap. Whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
That's the wrong tape, wrong tape.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Just forget that. Look.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Listen to the Paul Tony Fusco Show on the IHET radio.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
App, Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Do you guys have anything else you want to say
about Monday Night football? Double barrel action last night?
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Or no?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Do we want to kind of go in a different direction,
have some fun here?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
What do you mean?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
I'd personally rather have some fun come unless you want
to reset Monday Night Football?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, all right, So the Eagles beat the Bucks
Tampa Bay got kind of exposed. They were banged up.
Philadelphia job well done, teams undefeated. Jalen Carter at number
nine appears to be a steal. Jalen Hurts had flu
like symptoms. Aj Brown had nine grabs for one hundred
and thirty plus yards. Workmanlike that for Philadelphia continues to roll.
And then now you go over to Cincinnati and the Rams.
(29:40):
Joe Burrows banged up. The Cincinnati Bengals get it done,
and the Rams are a shell of who they were
a couple of years ago in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Well done, all run of applause for Johns.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Just that sums it up. Quick little reset here. So
there were some coaches who were talking yesterday in the
world of college football that were, you know, kind of
the focal point of what happened this past weekend. So
Dan Lanning had some clarification on some comments he made pregame.
We will hear from Dan Lanning here coming up here momentarily.
(30:12):
But also Marcus Freeman spoke about Brady the you know,
the the ten players that were on the field and
you know, the penalty and everything else that came out
of it, and he had this to say, a couple
of days later yesterday about that situation at the end
of the game.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
To just address that, right, is that the reality is
when when did you find out?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It was too late?
Speaker 8 (30:32):
It was too late, and you know, you don't have
time to get By the time we realized there was
ten guys on the field, you don't have time to
get somebody from you know, the sideline, when the balls
on the one yard line, in the front, you know,
on the far hash. To be able to you have
to touch somebody on offense to get them to stop
to play. And so by the time we realized that
(30:53):
to run somebody out there, he would have got a penalty,
but they would have declined it and still scored a touchdown.
And so as we talked as a staff yesterday, obviously
we can't let that happen. We know that we can't
let ten guys be on the field and not see it.
But two, you know, we have to be able to
We came up with a call a signal to be
able to say, hey, you have to jump off sides
(31:15):
and touch somebody on the offense so you can stop
to play, right. And so it was a learning opportunity
for myself and everybody involved with our program.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
All Right, so can I defend Marcus Freeman because if
Brady does it, you're just going to be called an apologist. Okay,
Like Marcus Freeman acknowledged, yeah, we made a mistake, and
there's people that are like, oh, Notre Dame doesn't know
how to account blah blah blah blah blah. I'm actually
surprised that stuff like this doesn't happen more, especially in chaotic,
(31:45):
crazy environments like that, to where all this stuff's happening.
You're driving down the field, it's bananas, the scene, you know,
it's Ohio State, it's Notre Dame, the pageantry, everything that
came along with it. They just got caught making a
mistake late in the game, like this idea that we're
out just going to go ahead and call out Marcus Freeman,
and they're not intelligent and they're not prepared enough. I
(32:07):
get where that sort of idea is coming from, but
I think this just showcases how locked in and how
buttoned up majority of the time these top notch programs
and just teams in general are, and when stuff like
this happens, I'm surprised we don't see it more. Often
to where there's just mistakes that are made in the moment.
Remember that Jr. Smith forgetting how much time was left
(32:30):
or what the score was on the clock in the
NBA Finals games years ago. When stuff like that happens,
it just reminds me man, ninety nine out of one hundred,
if not nine to nine to nine out of a thousand,
they're going to get it right. This was just a
one off situation, and they're going to be better for it.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
There's a bunch of things that I think, you know,
people on the outside who aren't really big into football,
you know, probably don't understand about the operations between every
given play.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
You know, one thing offenses due to defenses and this
doesn't necessary.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Brely fit this scenario, but it did in other portions
of the game, is offenses will play fast at that
point in the game to keep certain personnel groupings on
the field.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
So you hit a play, you rush up.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Now, granted it's a two minute scenario, so in that
instance they have to anyway because of the clock. For
Ohio State, because they were down and they needed a touchdown.
So you know they're gonna be playing fast anyway. But
a lot of times offenses try to do it because
if you think about defenses, their longest substitution the distance
to run is when teams are in the red zone.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So offenses will try to keep a group on the field.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
You get a big player that hits in the red zone,
they'll try to run up and play fast to get
another to get another playoff, just so the defense can't substitute,
and that way they can keep that group in there.
And so there's various elements that play a role in
just substitutions and how things like that can get messed up.
You know, I think for a young head coach and
(33:58):
Marcus Freeman, like we tend to forget, he had no
head coaching experience before he took over a Notre Dame.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I always felt like you knew at some.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Point there was going to be a moment where you said,
all right, he made a mistake and it's a learning experience. This,
unfortunately happened in arguably the biggest game that he's been
a part of so far in his career, at Home,
in the final moments, in the most critical moment, and
it ultimately falls on him. You know, I don't know
the exact operations to their defense and substitutions to tell you, Hey,
(34:29):
it was on their defensive coordinator. Hey, it was on
this coach to be able to signal in who should
be out there. And there's no point in really pointing
a finger because it's over and you all you can
do is now put in, you know, different mechanisms to
ensure that it never happens again. And like you talked about,
you know, now the defense knows, hey, if there's all
ten guys out there, we have to be able to
(34:50):
cause a penalty. Now, the odd thing is is that
the you know, he didn't try to or or they didn't.
You know, no one on the field recognized it. It,
Like that's the tough thing is when you're watching it.
I mean Todd blackliche in the booth didn't recognize it,
and he should have seen it and drew attention to it.
You know, no one in the field for Notre Dame's
(35:10):
defense at the time recognized that. If they did, they
should have tried to get a penalty. And I think
initially the thought too was like, hey, we couldn't substitute
in time, and you know we would have you know,
we wouldn't want to take a penalty was one of
the things they said, what doesn't matter at that point,
you know you're half the distance to the goal line,
it wouldn't be quite as punitive. At least you give
yourself a chance to stop whatever the next play is,
(35:32):
as opposed to playing with a man down, and arguably
in that instance the most important guy you know you
need it, which is a defensive lineman to try to
stop an offensive line, you know, lunging forward and pushing
the way in the end zone. So I think the
toughest thing for Notre Dame now is to not allow
this defeat to beat them twice. And they've got to
(35:53):
go to Duke College. Game day is going to be there.
This Duke team's undefeated. They play really good defense. They
got a kid up front, Dwayne Harder, He's one of
the better d tackles in the ACC and Riley Leonard
can take off run the football. He's a second leading rusher.
He doesn't really turn it over. This will be a
challenge for them, like both mentally and really physically off
of a physical game versus Ohio State. Duke's probably looking
(36:15):
at him thinking they're right for the picking right now.
They're probably looking their wounds, and we're gonna try to
take advantage of that at home so they can't sulk
and they can't worry about you know what happened last week.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
All you could do is fix it and move on.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
I'll just say this, Generally, it's it's special teams where
you see somebody running out there late, or you know,
the substitutions are an era. I mean, it was a mistake.
I mean that's that's what you chalk it up to.
Mistakes happened. It was a big game. Usually just just
(36:47):
in terms of reference on defense, usually you you make
sure someone's coming in when you're going out, like that's
generally been or for defenders, that's generally your rule of thumb.
If you're coming off the field, you should have eyes
(37:07):
on the person who's coming in for you. You don't
just go off the field, or you don't just go
on the field. It's like I'm coming off the field,
I see who's coming in. Like if we're going from
a heavy package to a lighter package, I might have
to identify as a defensive end or a linebacker, a
safety or a corner.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
You know that's coming in.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
But generally speaking, in terms of sub subbing, especially when
it's super loud and different things like that, you always
identify the person. You don't come off unless you see
the person that's coming on for you. I would venture
to say that, for what it's worth, the coach is
(37:50):
taking the rap for an air response a brain fart
of a player.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
I mean, that would be my reasoning on it. Now,
that just is what it is. You generally have.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Position guys, like so the coaches that are on the sideline,
you're responsible for the substitutions of your position group. So
if it's the secondary, if it's the linebacker, if it's
d line, you have your guys and they should be
there standing right next to you on the sideline for
subbing purposes, especially if it is an offense that doesn't
(38:26):
like the huddle and they're going fast, you have your
subs right there with you. So if a coach sends
a guy on, then there should be a guy coming off.
In this case where you have ten guys, somebody came off.
But obviously there was a miscommunication on why that guy
(38:47):
came off, because otherwise you would have saw the guy
coming in for you that was relieving you of your duty.
So again it happened, Like the reasoning could probably just
be very simple, which generally speaking, it was a player
that had a mental lapse.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
That's the problem is is like, I mean, just like
that part of it. It's not on the player.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
The coach has to be aware of it too, right,
And I mean if the player didn't hear their call
or he's got to know, like, hey, I only have
three defensive linemen out there.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yes, either the DC needs to or they need to.
I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I'm just saying in terms of if they're and I
don't know their process.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I don't know their process.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I just know pretty much every every like defense I
was on in college and in pro our rule of
thumb is if you don't see your guy, you don't
come off.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Like I know who my subs are, so I know.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
If if if you know Sam Shade, or if if
this person, if if Carlos Emmons is coming on for Nickel,
whatever it is, I know who my subs are. If
I don't see my sub if I don't see Reggie
tour Board coming on, I'm not coming off. I'm not
coming off. So it's kind of like one of those things. Yes,
(40:07):
it is on the coach ultimately again for what takes place.
But with that being said, if I'm a player, I
don't need to be a robot either. You know, sometimes
I have to use deductive reasoning, Like okay, they call
this personnel grouping. He could have heard a personnel grouping
or a defense calture, but he's not in that past.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
Ye yeah, I get it that that didn't even speak
through though, whoever the captain is on defense, like a
lot of a quarter like think about it. On offense,
I step out of the huddle because I want to
make sure we have everyone.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's the first thing, the first thing you're responsible for.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
And even in no huddle, I have to communicate the
formation and the play and so I'm looking to make
sure I've got everyone I need.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
So like on our defense, generally a linebacker, a linebacker
doesn't check for the secondary. Though the linebacker checks for
the front group. Well, you have a same cash that's
probably right, right.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
The communication if for the defense is different because a
lot of times it's hand signals. They're looking, they're getting it,
they're not really concerned about who is wearing all that.
What I'm saying, though, is if you've got a captain
at linebacker. You should know both. You should know, hey,
this is the front, this is whatever. Well whatever, you're
unning coverage everything else soon Okay, you have to be
(41:27):
the one to be able to make sure everyone's in
the right spot for where they run fit or they're
coverages right. And so that's the thing is, it doesn't
matter if it's the head coach, the defense coordinator, the
d line coach that to your point of accountability. There's
always a quarterback on one side of the ball. And
in this instance too, like you could look at that
and say, well, these guys got to be aware in
(41:48):
particularly whoever that quarterback is on defense for them and say, dude,
we're missing a guy like it almost in that instance
you you come.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Out of your position to say they're not there.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
I going to go take over where that defensive tackle
is supposed to be because I can't let this offensive
line get a running star at two dbs who are
like looking around, going wait a second, something's off here,
and then snap their football.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
You give up a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Well, somebody again, like you said, before the ball is
about to be snapped, somebody has to see I made
a call. If that call is a quarters a dime
a nickel calling, or if it's a heavy call, why
do I only see three defensive linemen say something like
say it immediately. Don't like what they say to rule
of thumb, don't keep a secret. Say to me three
(42:34):
d lineman, three lineman, like say it like jump off anyway,
that's one thing. They could jump or jump off side
something something, but anyway, that's again. I still think one
of the best things about a team that wins is
that you make I noticed might sound crazy, but you
(42:55):
make your coaches look good. Like if they call a
S call, you may that s into what you need
to make it into.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
If if something needs to be adjusted, like there's been
times where where our guys adjusted play calls like hell no,
we ain't going with that, like like we're going we're
going to do this and and and you make that
call and you make it work, like based off of
what the given scenarios are going on in the game.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
You have to be an extension of your coach.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Sometimes in the game you're going to see the game
much differently than what the coach is going to see
it because you're right there in it. And so to me,
in this moment, in this moment, you got to be
so dialed in that as a player, and like you said,
generally speaking, it is your middle backer. But sometimes, I
mean Derek Brooks was one of the most intelligent dudes like.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
You'd ever and he was a weak side backer. So
you had guys that aren't.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Necessarily in the in the play calling or the quarterback
you know, position to make calls, but they were always
smart enough or always were those type of guys that
would make sure things were what they were supposed to be,
even if they weren't in the middle position or or
at the safety position where you're supposed to be quarterbacking
the d somebody needed to step up and be the.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Brain in that moment. It just didn't happen that way.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I mean, for whatever reason it was, and again I'll
chalk it up to a mental lapse or just a
mistake it was.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
It was just a bigger's the reality. Ohio State took advantage,
you know. Kyle McCrory made some big throws in that
final drive. They saw the weakness. They they ran a
play that look, if if they don't get that, the
game's over. So it's there's some risks to that, but
they saw it, they exploited it, and kudos to them,
Like that's what good teams do. Good teams find ways
of winning football games in the final moments and they
(44:46):
don't make those mistakes. You know, clearly Notre Dame could
match up with them throughout the course of the game.
That's why they had Ohio State in that position. But
you know that, and you don't want to put on
just that one play because there's obviously a series of
plays in which they could have executed and who knows
how different it would have been.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
But that hurt.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
I mean to lose that game that way, that hurts.
And that's one that I've said this before, like you
don't get over that. You don't like, That's one you
have to find peace with. That's one you have to
cope with. And I think the hardest thing is when
you get flat out beat, like when you have a
team that's just better than you and or on that day,
is better than you. It's easier to deal with that
(45:25):
than it is when you made a mistake or you
mess something up, or even if there's any like indecision
on it, because then you're always gonna second guess, like well,
what could have we done different to get a different
outcome to have changed that. So that's the hard thing
for Notre Dame is they got to figure out a
way of moving on, moving past this because it's been
a national piece of conversation. It will continue to be,
(45:46):
you know, a part of the national conversation, especially if
they don't go out there and be duped this week
and then it's two in a row and that's all
people are gonna be talking about.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Watching that game when it came down and they you know,
McCord completed that pass, got it down to the goal line,
and it reminded me so much of the Bush Push game,
just that this was at the same side of the
field as well.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Why would bring that up? It was that end zone.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
But here's the thing I don't get about that. People
have said that, I'm like, what was the same about it?
I mean the drama, yeah, but it.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Like no offense to High State.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
They weren't as good as USC was that y I'm
just saying USC was on a twenty seven game win streak.
I mean, they'd been the back to back national championshi
under three peat and they had two Heisman Trophy winners
on their team, Like first off, the third and nineteen
that they had, they didn't even convert. They got it
to within fourth and nine, then made a big play
on fourth and nine, and so it was to me,
(46:39):
I was kind of like everyone trying to make comparisons
of this game and the feeling and all that to
USC that year, and look, I hate to do this,
but it wasn't as big of a game as it
was that.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
I'm sorry. It wasn't as big a game.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
You're talking about a number one team that you're trying
to knock off and if you win, you have a
chance to win a national championship or go play for
one if they they.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Go on to planet.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
So I will say this does put a lot of
pressure on Notre Dame in terms of just making the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
There's no room for air.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Listen Notre Dame minus six this weekend. It's good. Yeah,
just go ahead and take that and run with it.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Five and a half. It's something.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, DraftKings kind of had it ticked up a little bit.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Did that you had to come back down or do
you not refresh? Listen?
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I got it, I got it all locked and loaded.
Live here tire racked.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Because your studios. You don't hit the refresh page.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
You could buy a half point. There's always that option too,
You tease it. Little gambling talk here for you.
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar arrings, rating Win and Jonas Knox on Box Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So as the world turns and the day of our lives,
well listen the days of our lives or hard Knocks.
I I'd actually be more interested in Hard Knocks covering
the Jets now than I would have been during it
before the season.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Good call, it is.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Falling apart, man, it is Joe Namaths Aaron Zach Wilson
out now telling him what go back up, Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's a. That's a.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
That's a little unfair. But Broadway Joe, hold on now, Yeah,
because Broadway is old. Man, Come on, he's old.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know. Well, I mean, I'm not sure it's it's
no one's picking on him. It's it's the other way around.
But yeah, I know, I mean, I'm just I thought
he was still trying to kiss Susie Colebro.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Does leave Willie Joe alone? Man, y'all just let let
no one's picking on Willie Joe.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I'm saying he's gotta stuff picking on Zach dude, that's
not He should be supporting the young buck, not throw
him under the bus.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, no, but he don't know that. He's not supporting it. Man,
you know he's old.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
I mean, that'd be like you coming out after I've
du a Carter after that Week one game.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Damn. Yeah, not ideal.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Here's the thing is, And I told it floor that
was his floor, I know, but that way that that
first game. I watched the tape and when when you
were talking about it air, I was like, I know
why he's bad.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I know exactly why you said it too.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You want to say it out loud, and I didn't
want to say it out loud either.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I know exactly what right it was. Week one, we
say we saw the same thing I saw, you saw.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
He saw you saw the same saying, but that baby
showed up on sap third day. It's pain the rest
of the way. Man, jeez, I saw him speed up
the week before. But yeah, you're right back to Willie Joe. Yeah,
leave Willy Joe.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Alone, man, you tell him to leave Zach Wilson alone.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
He did go at him though, he did.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Like it's getting a little more than like it's that
getting personal, you know, And that's where I'm like.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's also getting it's also getting lazy. Like, we get it, Zach, Well,
Zach Wilson didn't draft himself. He's not the one who's
defiantly sticking by himself. Like the Jets are they weren't.
They're telling him to go out there, they're not making
any moves. Apparently Matt Ryan's not interested in the job either,
so apparently that's not going to happen. Uh, you know,
(02:31):
he's just his agent's out there floating stuff out there
or whatever it's, whatever's going on there. But I just
feel like the Zach Wilson stuff, it's now reached to
point to where people are piling on.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
That's a toxic relationship.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
But it's not his It's it's his fault that he's
not playing well, but it's not his fault that they
keep sending him out there and he didn't draft himself.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Is there a possibility, is there the possibility that his
woes are attributed to something, maybe other than just himself.
Is there a possibility that the blame game could actually
solely lie somewhere else, on someone else, someone else?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I don't know, I mean, is that a possibility?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I don't. I don't think we know.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It's more than just one person, right.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I also think like we never got to see
them with Aaron Rodgers, and then without him, we just
got four plays, so we have no idea what they
really would have been with.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I mean, Aaron Rodgers didn't get hurt by the air.
Aaron Rodgers didn't get hurt other than by getting a
physically contacted on a physically contacted play.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
We do know that.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Are you blaming the offensive line.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
For Aaron Rodgers? I am, I mean, not for Zach Wilson.
I'm just saying, I mean, it ain't like he didn't
get hit. When he got hurt, he did get it
was the offensive line with someone's fault. Just saying, I
just wonder if there's something else there with Zach Wilson.
Is Zach Wilson detached and not even know knowing he's
(04:10):
in detached mode? Is he in like preservation mode? Like
these people.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Don't like me.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Some people don't respond well when they feel like they're
constantly under that type of pressure.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Even procu they would respond well if you feel like
people don't like them.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Some do.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Some people do, man, some people one likes me, but
f these guys, Yeah, some people do.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Some people like they can thrive in it.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
I don't know how. I don't like that. I'm kind
of like sensitive. But some people can.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I've never seen anyone who can. They Usually people want
to be liked, you know, I don't know, man, I'm
not saying that they don't want to be liked.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
I'm just saying, so shut up, Joan. I'm just saying
some people want. Some people want, are okay with those conditions,
like they can thrive it. I'll tell you somebody who
classically was like that. Brian Cox was like that. Like
Brian Cox didn't like, didn't care if anybody liked him
or not. A matter of fact, Brian Cox could tell
(05:11):
you another team's fans, his team's fans f off like
like he could. He didn't care. Like some guys, they
just don't care. They're they're just wired to be detached,
like from whatever it is that they're detached from. I
just feel like Zach Wilson is in a toxic relationship, man,
Like this is a classic toxic relationship, Like let's make up,
(05:35):
to break up, break up, the makeup, like it's it's I.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Don't know, I know he's bad.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I'm not making any I'm not making any excuses for
the dude. I'm just saying, is there a possibility that
there's another aspect to this bad relationship other than just
drafting him? I mean, is there something else there is there?
Could they be calling the games differently for him to
have success? Could is there something that could make Zach
(06:05):
Wilson not as unlikable and as bad as he's been
as their quarterback.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I'm just I don't know. There's a lot here that
I think we're really milking this thing.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, I'm just if you have something, I mean, I
am not in mine. He's so bad, it's so bad,
it's so bad. I mean, is there something? Could there
be something else? He's in the league as a number
like a top draft pick, got we look at him,
you said, we said lazy take. We don't write lazy
take to say Zach is bad.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
The thing is, we don't know what they are with
a significantly better quarterback. If the rosters as good as
it is and they've got a better quarterback and Aaron Rodgers,
how good are they? Because we never got to see it.
All we got to see was when Mike White came
in last year. There was a spark at least early on,
like there was there was something there, and so I
(06:59):
just I feel like it's piling on at this point.
It is what it is. As we talked about yesterday,
they're the same team they were last year, like there's
really no difference, like except they don't have as many
wins at this point as they did last year. It
just it feels like at this point people are just
you know, grabbing at the same old, same old line
they've been using. Zach Wilson stinks and he's a bus
(07:20):
and it's probably not very fun for that guy to
even walk around town, if he even does, or it's
got to be a pretty rough time and a pretty
rough start to his career, which a lot of people
who criticize him, a lot of fans or people in
the media who take shots at him, they have no
idea probably what that guy goes through on a daily basis,
or what his comments are like or what. And now
(07:42):
you got Joe Namath taking shots at him for, you know,
for whatever his reasoning is. So in that regard, I
feel bad for Zach Wilson, but you know, at least
you know, he didn't get hitting the nuts like a
Sauce Gardner did on Sunday, so at.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Least that was mac Jones.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Now, is there any doubt in your mind that Sauce
Garner was hitting the nuts because I watched the tape
on that and it looks like a clear nutshot, pretty definitive.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Big little little cup check for you.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You know how y'all feel about that? Not good?
Speaker 5 (08:17):
I heard for any man that gets hitting the groin,
any man, any shot to the grol Oh, God, like
that is weird.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That's where we're all connected, Okay.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
I don't care what your religion is, your politics, what
teams you were for. I don't care what you say
to me. If if you don't like it, if you
hate me, if you get hitting the groin, buddy, I
look at you and I feel sympathy.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
All right. It is like there there's a connection between all.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Of us, and as soon as you see someone take
a nuts shot, everyone kind of just goes, oh, come together.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That feels Democrat, Republican together.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
That's that was where the politics were covered there. But
no racial lines, nothing facts.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I don't care. Big house, little house, doesn't matter. Homeless,
big car, little car, you get hit square the nuts
feet no feet.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Have you guys ever been inadvertently hitting the nuts by
your kids, like picking them up and they kick.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
All the time. You know what you haven't experienced yet,
but you're going to. Andrew isn't old enough or probably
not tall enough where when you pick him up, they
like flutter their legs.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
He'll get yeah down, put me down.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He did it two weeks ago, and can My wife's
looking at me like, come on, we gotta go, like
hold on a second hold issue?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
You never.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
It's you know, like y'all get birth, but we get
kicked in them and we get kicked there, and there's
something to be said about that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, it is. It's very uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
There is something to be said.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, just wait a second, when do you think what
do you think because this is now multiple times that
Mat Jones has pulled some stuff like this, When do
you think the NFL do.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
You think they're going to do anything? We would have
heard something about.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That he's a repeat offender, like shouldn't they do something
at this point?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I mean, if it's a film like Thattshot Defender.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well no, he's a repeat offender in that he kicked
who was it already Burns? He gator rolled him like
he rolled up on his legs. He kicked who was
it that he that he kicked in the.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Groin after interception?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, he like like slid and kick somebody in the
groin last year. Like it feels like this has happened
a lot with Mac Jones.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Good for Mac Jones, not just being like, you know,
a lame duck or anything like that. Like you fight
for your rights to pullarty.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Interesting to go after sauce, Mac and sauce. I'll be
honest with you. If there's one way of taking a
guy to the game, that's one way of doing it.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean, geez, I don't know how to respond
to that. Radio I kind of agree.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Have you ever cup somebody was trying to rough you
up during a game?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
First of all, anybody have ever experienced somebody wearing a cup?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
What like? Or would you know that somebody had a.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Couple That's what they called a cup check.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It's called a cup check for the reason.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
There was in high school nobody ever wear In high school,
we had this assistant coach and he used to come
around and he was also a coach on the baseball team,
and we come around with an aluminum bat and just
walk up to you pop, make sure you're wearing a cup.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
And that this sounds more like child abuse now yeah,
but wow, I'll be honest with that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Coach Chance was the best man?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
What's the beast?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Did you touch us in our No, not.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
A little and now explains a whole lot cute. Hey,
like now now we understand a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Why Jonas is the way.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The little little easton thirty four thirty two right to
the groin to make sure you're wearing your protective stuff.
Nothing all that.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It was then.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
I'm not trying to make a dark subject, but you
you might have gotten abused a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Bro Coach Chanson, who's the best?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Based on that story?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That was a good guy? Oh wow, good guy made
sure you're wearing your cup. But the point is inter
over under for real, over under twenty five thousand dollars
on the fine for Mac Jones for hitting Sauce Gardener
in the downstairs bathroom.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
I'm gonna take an under on that one. Be like ten, I.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Think so pretty dirty, pretty blatant.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
It was on video, it was pretty blatant.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I'm gonna take the over, You gonna take the over.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
That's pretty h going to.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Set an example here, make an example of mac Jones.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
That's pretty high. But I said, you said a repeat
a fedder. Has he done this before?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Okay? So there was a guy last year who on
an interception he like kicked him in the groin or something.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
There was there was he tried to trip him when
it was like running by.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
But there was already burns of the Panthers his rookie
year that he rolled up his leg that they were
complaining about. And then there was another one last year.
So it feels like there's been at least three to
into the incidents at this point in his career. That's
what I'm wondering. So I'm gonna say twenty five thousand
and I'll take the over.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Okay, by the way, yeah, I would say there has
to be some sort of punishment here. I mean, you
just can't allow guys going around nut checking each other
the whole time.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
You can't do it. You just can't do it.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
You're gonna have guys like bent over keeled over people
in the stands. They be killed over for those people.
I mean, seriously, is there any anything else in this
world where dudes see another guy get hitting the nuts
and they don't just go oh man and like you're
It almost affects your stomach, like, hey, you want to
go get some neat.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I'm not really hungry right now. I saw this guy
get hitting the nuts. Now I can't even.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Think about You know what's funny though, you either instantly
give the solution as to what he should do.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Backwards your solution. By the way, if.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Somebody hit me in the nuts, yeah, do you land
your back, put your pull your legs in. I'm gonna
beat his ass. Q Oh no, no, I'm like I'm going.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I'm not. I'm not going for a solution.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
As to how I kid accidentally hits you in the nuts, Like.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
I mean you're killed. Well, that's different. That's different that
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Somebody purposely hit me there, we're.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Going to war. You're gonna have to whoop me.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
If I accidentally got hit in the in the nuts,
I don't think I have.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
But I never had a plan or a solution for it.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
I just grab them, you know, I just grab them
and I go. I think that's every time I've got hit. Yeah,
I think I kind of make that weird noise and
kind of like talk myself through the pain.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
That is a noise one more time for me? What
is yours internal?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What is what my reaction getting hit?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah sounds.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Damn nice. Same, That's it. That's all I got.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I really had to aim for it. Yeah, like you
really like I gotta find is like land a plane
on a stamp.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And also, I'll be honest with you when Andrew gummy
like kick cereal.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Andy Reid, the head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs,
is not happy everybody remembers the season opener with Juwan Taylor,
the tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs, who appeared to
be lining up off sides virtually the entire game. There
were a lot of complaints about it. Why aren't the
officials making the call? Et cetera, et cetera. So he's
been flagged a bunch of times since that has happened,
(15:50):
and Andy Reid apparently thinks there's some inconsistencies when it
comes to how this whole thing is being officiated.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Yeah, no chance to look at it even doubled more
on what I said yesterday. I mean, I just think, uh,
you know, they've got an eye on them, and they
better keep an eye on everybody else too, because it's
to the point of being ridiculous. They got their point,
their point proves now out there to the world, so
(16:17):
let's uh make sure we're staying consistent.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So that was Andy Reid talking about the whole situation.
Does feel like they're they're trying to make good for
what possibly was officiating airs early in the season, and
so now they've got an eye on Juwan Taylor and
they just keep calling him and calling him and calling
him for penalties now. So it feels like, to Andy
(16:42):
Reid's point, they're trying to make a statement and trying
to make good for whatever wrongdoing they did early on
in the season because they were kind of clowned and
exposed for it on social media and other platforms. So
there's there's a we're at when it comes to the
NFL officiating thus far, which.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
I think you could make the case that it's one
of the things that everyone's glossed over this year so
far because of the various storylines and what we've seen
in the first few weeks, But the officiating is as
inconsistent as it's ever been. I mean, go back we
talked about of the Baltimore Indianapolis game. I mean, that's
past interference on Zay Flowers that completely changes the dynamic
(17:18):
of the game. Baltimore is probably still undefeated, Indianapolis obviously
suffers a loss, and.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yet it doesn't get called somehow.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
That's probably the one thing that stands out the most
in regards to the timing of when defenders are hitting
targeted receivers is for whatever reason, you know they're they're
kind of giving the defender the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not sure if that's something that they've tried to
touch on it from time to time, or they're just
missing it and flat out can't see it. But it
seems like there's a lot of inconsistencies between games and
(17:50):
week by week in regards to how things are being
called and how things are being officiated.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I think holts are way more egregious this year than
I've seen, Like the type types of holds that take
place and not being called. I've seen some pretty pretty
wild holes that weren't called. Like just I don't know,
but it is inconsistent, and it's I don't know. I
(18:15):
think you I think if you're I guess, if you're
giving yourself an opportunity to try to enjoy the game,
you almost have to block out the fact or accept
the fact that the referees have been and will always
be a part of your happiness or your sadness as
(18:36):
it applies to watching a game, and you just have
to accept that as part of the conditions of the game.
Like if it's raining, you got to accept the fact
that it might be a different game because of the weather.
Like you got to accept that you're going to get
calls during the game that you're not going to like,
or you're going to not get calls and you're not going.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
To like that you didn't get the calls.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I just it just depends on what's you fall on
on which team and what you would like to see.
But referees, it's just always This is the one thing
I will say, A referee will never ever get it right.
There will never in our lifetime or anybody else's lifetime,
as long as sports exist where referees get it completely
(19:22):
right and people are like, oh, this is this is
like this is how you ref a game. Like it'll
never happen ever.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
But that's why we have replay, so if they make
a mistaken we can fix them mistass.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
But you you would need replay if we're really talking
about all the things that you need to nitpick on it.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
If it was the right call or not, it would
be every play.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
There's also did you see the Alexander Madison fumble that
was ruled his forward progress was stopped in the Chargers game?
What the hell call was that it was ruled a
fumble on the field and then even with replay, they
went back and looked at it and said forward progress stopped. No,
it wasn't like if you watch the play, but if
they they slowed it down and said, okay, we're going
(20:06):
to go back. So there's just there's been things like
Mike Evans pushed off so blatantly in the Bears game
last weekend that like even I think Tampa Bay was
looking around, going you serious, I didn't get called for that,
like Mike Evans broke off.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
That would have made the difference in the game. Yes, yeah, yes,
they probably would have won.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And let me tell you something, if that, if they
would have called that penalty Alan Williams House did wouldn't
have been raided by the FBI.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Okay, yeah, he ran right into it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No FBI rad if Alan Williams and the Bears get
that call there in that game.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, so no, who was that? That's how they'd be knocking.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So right, Yeah, that's how it goes. But yeah, I
just I look at it and I go to Andy
Reid's point, there's just some stuff you can look at
every single game and go, but you're calling that and
not this, Like you're doing that and you're not doing that,
and it just feels like it's the same story. And
I don't know if is officiating getting worse?
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean you have less tenured officials and the
NFL is resistant to wanting to add an extra official
and look deep playing Dana Mike Prayer always like, well,
what's that going to solve? I'm like, it just gives
you an extra set of eyes. It gives you an
extra set of eyes down there in the field. If
you're not going to implement replay to the extent that
(21:28):
allows you to be able to see everything. Why not
have someone else out there too that can help out
make these calls. I mean, even though every official that's
out there in the field has a specific job, you
could still take off that out there plate to a
degree and it gives someone else down there to say, hey,
here's what I saw from this angle, or here's what
I saw you have.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
At the college level.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
And it's either that or it's like, we got to
implement a way of using replay that allows us to
get the result that we're.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Looking for I have.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
That's the another thing. What's that of a solution? A suggestion?
We're going into a day and age, a time where
the advances of technology are so amazing. The entire field
is a is a green screen, right, Like it's it's
(22:17):
all green screen. So why not just get artificial intelligence
to you know, connect to the green screen and then
have it call when it detects a penalty, a foul of.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Some sort, and then boom, the flag is thrown.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
I mean they go to another They go to New
York every single time that they want to discuss a
play anyway, right, they call this confused by where you
first said, like, well, just sense if you had, like say,
if you had artificial intelligence like monitoring the game.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
First off, artificial intelligence isn't quite there yet. I mean,
if you but we're getting in Texas like they're unfortunately
was a traffic jam because they had twenty driverless car
as they couldn't figure where the hell to go.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yes, loser, But then you have a manual driver there,
and that's where you have the referees on the field.
So if the artificial intelligence has like like a malfunction
of some sort while you're you're hashing it out.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
You know, then look, the guys on the field take
over until they they unmix it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
I mean, I'm just saying, and I'm being I'm being
sarcastic because honestly he did have. If you did have
artificial intelligence or like bots or something calling the games,
there would literally be two or three flags on every
single place.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Like robotomps in baseball. Yeah, okay, like the electronics strike zones.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
But if you're scanning the field for like the hands
are you're holding, or formations or like what Andy Reid
is talking about, if if you felt like he's he's
lined up properly or versus not properly, if it's a
rule break or not. If you program those rules into
the system, I mean, you would have a you would
(24:06):
have more than one flag.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You probably have on average. I mean you'd have a
lot of flags per play.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I mean, if you really took human era out of
the calls, you're going to have a flag on every play,
especially from old lineman. And you know I'm biased to that,
but you're going to have a flag from old Lineman
pretty much every play. Yeah, and you probably have a
pass interference on every single pass.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, it just says what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
How many holding penalties did Joe Thomas getting his career?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Lee?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Is there a stat on that? How many times did
your Yeah? I would say it's under ten for sure.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
They said, well, isn't the stat crazy for Walter Jones
in terms of holds, like he never had a holding
call in his career or something like that. I don't know,
I mean it was something like that. It was something crazy.
It was gotty when you heard it, Like, how does
he not get that? I know he helped me a
few times, uh, Lee.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Lee, we got an update on Joe thomas career holds?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Wow?
Speaker 7 (25:07):
Well was it just four and one? Is it four altogether?
Four in one seas? I'm sorry, give me a second.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, apparently we.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Don't have it. But uh, you know, well, Walter Jones
I believe was.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Nine forty eight, forty eight holds in his career and
he got voted into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
That's where you have to look at how many snaps
he played as well, I mean do that by by
the amount of snaps he played.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
How many sacks do you think Joe Thomas gave up zero?
Really his entire career and they never gave a one sack.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
That's why I feel Powell.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Damn zero. All right, we'll get the answers on that
hardy wa.
Speaker 7 (25:50):
And that was forty eight complete penalties in his career.
That includes false starts, in eligible downfield calls, which I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
By the way, an eligible downfield that's not his.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Hell we're talking about right.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Now, ineligible down ineligible downfield is not his fault, just
because they can't get a screen pass operator.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So we're gonna wipe that out, so we'll put it
in on it.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Why don't we get so locked in on Joe, I mean,
Walter Jones. You know Walter Jones. Well, I think you
got locked in on Walter Jones. Jonas got locked in on.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Joe Thomas, Thomas and Joey T Babe.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Lee got locked in on trying to get the internet
to he couldn't get and he got locked Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Well we'll get the answers on how many sacks Joe
Thomas gave up in his career, Oh jeez, at some
point zero course. Uh and also if you can check
Walter Jones as well too, just so we're uh, you know,
we're not offending everybody.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Oh my gosh, all right, there were a lot of
people that were offended by you just now, Jonas, I
know they were. Yeah, they were like, oh Jonas, Yeah
he finally showed I got you.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah. I was just trying to help you out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Lee was one of them. By the way, we are
brought to.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You back exactly what did that? Now? It makes it sorry.
I appreciate Lee Roy. We are.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We are brought to you by Graduate Hotels, your college
game day headquarters, with more than thirty hotels in all
your favorite college towns. Book a stay this season and
check this out. You save up to thirty percent that's right,
thirty percent with the code two pros at Graduatehotels dot Com.
That's two pros at Graduatehotels dot Com. Two pros and
(27:25):
a cup of Joe here on Fox Sports Radio Priz.
So quickly, Lee, we got about thirty seconds here. What
have we unveiled? When it comes to Joe Thomas and
the number of holes in his career?
Speaker 7 (27:35):
According to Pro Football Focus, he did allow thirty sacks
in his career. That's over six thousand snaps.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, so that's a sax. And then the holes we're
still working on. We're at fourteen and counting. We're at
the last season.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
We're at fifteen holding penalties.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Wow, how about that and thirty sacks allowed? Yeah, I
question the thirty number. I'm going to say it's more
like about two or three.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But I said zero.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, just for the record, And we're going to get
to Walter Jones coming up an hour four. That's right,
of the program that happened there before.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
What do you think I'm not entertaining. I'm not even
entertaining im qu all.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Right, be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros
and a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn LeVar Errington
and Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am PACIFICO.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Polly Foosco here with Tony Fusco.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yo.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Of course you know us as the host of the
number one rated show and all the sports talks, The
Paully and Tony Fusco Show.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Now, the suits at Fox Sports Radio gave us this
ad time because they wanted us to.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Tell you how great our show is. Why.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, Instead of us doing that, let's just let our
millions of fans do the talker. Yeah, play the tape.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
You don't know crap about four am. I own this crap. Whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
That's the wrong tape, wrong tape.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Just forget that. Look.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Listen to the Paul Tony Fusco Show on the IHET radio.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
App, Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Do you guys have anything else you want to say
about Monday Night football? Double barrel action last night?
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Or no?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Do we want to kind of go in a different direction,
have some fun here?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
What do you mean?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
I'd personally rather have some fun come unless you want
to reset Monday Night Football?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, all right, So the Eagles beat the Bucks
Tampa Bay got kind of exposed. They were banged up.
Philadelphia job well done, teams undefeated. Jalen Carter at number
nine appears to be a steal. Jalen Hurts had flu
like symptoms. Aj Brown had nine grabs for one hundred
and thirty plus yards. Workmanlike that for Philadelphia continues to roll.
And then now you go over to Cincinnati and the Rams.
(29:40):
Joe Burrows banged up. The Cincinnati Bengals get it done,
and the Rams are a shell of who they were
a couple of years ago in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Well done, all run of applause for Johns.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Just that sums it up. Quick little reset here. So
there were some coaches who were talking yesterday in the
world of college football that were, you know, kind of
the focal point of what happened this past weekend. So
Dan Lanning had some clarification on some comments he made pregame.
We will hear from Dan Lanning here coming up here momentarily.
(30:12):
But also Marcus Freeman spoke about Brady the you know,
the the ten players that were on the field and
you know, the penalty and everything else that came out
of it, and he had this to say, a couple
of days later yesterday about that situation at the end
of the game.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
To just address that, right, is that the reality is
when when did you find out?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It was too late?
Speaker 8 (30:32):
It was too late, and you know, you don't have
time to get By the time we realized there was
ten guys on the field, you don't have time to
get somebody from you know, the sideline, when the balls
on the one yard line, in the front, you know,
on the far hash. To be able to you have
to touch somebody on offense to get them to stop
to play. And so by the time we realized that
(30:53):
to run somebody out there, he would have got a penalty,
but they would have declined it and still scored a touchdown.
And so as we talked as a staff yesterday, obviously
we can't let that happen. We know that we can't
let ten guys be on the field and not see it.
But two, you know, we have to be able to
We came up with a call a signal to be
able to say, hey, you have to jump off sides
(31:15):
and touch somebody on the offense so you can stop
to play, right. And so it was a learning opportunity
for myself and everybody involved with our program.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
All Right, so can I defend Marcus Freeman because if
Brady does it, you're just going to be called an apologist. Okay,
Like Marcus Freeman acknowledged, yeah, we made a mistake, and
there's people that are like, oh, Notre Dame doesn't know
how to account blah blah blah blah blah. I'm actually
surprised that stuff like this doesn't happen more, especially in chaotic,
(31:45):
crazy environments like that, to where all this stuff's happening.
You're driving down the field, it's bananas, the scene, you know,
it's Ohio State, it's Notre Dame, the pageantry, everything that
came along with it. They just got caught making a
mistake late in the game, like this idea that we're
out just going to go ahead and call out Marcus Freeman,
and they're not intelligent and they're not prepared enough. I
(32:07):
get where that sort of idea is coming from, but
I think this just showcases how locked in and how
buttoned up majority of the time these top notch programs
and just teams in general are, and when stuff like
this happens, I'm surprised we don't see it more. Often
to where there's just mistakes that are made in the moment.
Remember that Jr. Smith forgetting how much time was left
(32:30):
or what the score was on the clock in the
NBA Finals games years ago. When stuff like that happens,
it just reminds me man, ninety nine out of one hundred,
if not nine to nine to nine out of a thousand,
they're going to get it right. This was just a
one off situation, and they're going to be better for it.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
There's a bunch of things that I think, you know,
people on the outside who aren't really big into football,
you know, probably don't understand about the operations between every
given play.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
You know, one thing offenses due to defenses and this
doesn't necessary.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Brely fit this scenario, but it did in other portions
of the game, is offenses will play fast at that
point in the game to keep certain personnel groupings on
the field.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
So you hit a play, you rush up.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Now, granted it's a two minute scenario, so in that
instance they have to anyway because of the clock. For
Ohio State, because they were down and they needed a touchdown.
So you know they're gonna be playing fast anyway. But
a lot of times offenses try to do it because
if you think about defenses, their longest substitution the distance
to run is when teams are in the red zone.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So offenses will try to keep a group on the field.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
You get a big player that hits in the red zone,
they'll try to run up and play fast to get
another to get another playoff, just so the defense can't substitute,
and that way they can keep that group in there.
And so there's various elements that play a role in
just substitutions and how things like that can get messed up.
You know, I think for a young head coach and
(33:58):
Marcus Freeman, like we tend to forget, he had no
head coaching experience before he took over a Notre Dame.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I always felt like you knew at some.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Point there was going to be a moment where you said,
all right, he made a mistake and it's a learning experience. This,
unfortunately happened in arguably the biggest game that he's been
a part of so far in his career, at Home,
in the final moments, in the most critical moment, and
it ultimately falls on him. You know, I don't know
the exact operations to their defense and substitutions to tell you, Hey,
(34:29):
it was on their defensive coordinator. Hey, it was on
this coach to be able to signal in who should
be out there. And there's no point in really pointing
a finger because it's over and you all you can
do is now put in, you know, different mechanisms to
ensure that it never happens again. And like you talked about,
you know, now the defense knows, hey, if there's all
ten guys out there, we have to be able to
(34:50):
cause a penalty. Now, the odd thing is is that
the you know, he didn't try to or or they didn't.
You know, no one on the field recognized it. It,
Like that's the tough thing is when you're watching it.
I mean Todd blackliche in the booth didn't recognize it,
and he should have seen it and drew attention to it.
You know, no one in the field for Notre Dame's
(35:10):
defense at the time recognized that. If they did, they
should have tried to get a penalty. And I think
initially the thought too was like, hey, we couldn't substitute
in time, and you know we would have you know,
we wouldn't want to take a penalty was one of
the things they said, what doesn't matter at that point,
you know you're half the distance to the goal line,
it wouldn't be quite as punitive. At least you give
yourself a chance to stop whatever the next play is,
(35:32):
as opposed to playing with a man down, and arguably
in that instance the most important guy you know you
need it, which is a defensive lineman to try to
stop an offensive line, you know, lunging forward and pushing
the way in the end zone. So I think the
toughest thing for Notre Dame now is to not allow
this defeat to beat them twice. And they've got to
(35:53):
go to Duke College. Game day is going to be there.
This Duke team's undefeated. They play really good defense. They
got a kid up front, Dwayne Harder, He's one of
the better d tackles in the ACC and Riley Leonard
can take off run the football. He's a second leading rusher.
He doesn't really turn it over. This will be a
challenge for them, like both mentally and really physically off
of a physical game versus Ohio State. Duke's probably looking
(36:15):
at him thinking they're right for the picking right now.
They're probably looking their wounds, and we're gonna try to
take advantage of that at home so they can't sulk
and they can't worry about you know what happened last week.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
All you could do is fix it and move on.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
I'll just say this, Generally, it's it's special teams where
you see somebody running out there late, or you know,
the substitutions are an era. I mean, it was a mistake.
I mean that's that's what you chalk it up to.
Mistakes happened. It was a big game. Usually just just
(36:47):
in terms of reference on defense, usually you you make
sure someone's coming in when you're going out, like that's
generally been or for defenders, that's generally your rule of thumb.
If you're coming off the field, you should have eyes
(37:07):
on the person who's coming in for you. You don't
just go off the field, or you don't just go
on the field. It's like I'm coming off the field,
I see who's coming in. Like if we're going from
a heavy package to a lighter package, I might have
to identify as a defensive end or a linebacker, a
safety or a corner.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
You know that's coming in.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
But generally speaking, in terms of sub subbing, especially when
it's super loud and different things like that, you always
identify the person. You don't come off unless you see
the person that's coming on for you. I would venture
to say that, for what it's worth, the coach is
(37:50):
taking the rap for an air response a brain fart
of a player.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
I mean, that would be my reasoning on it. Now,
that just is what it is. You generally have.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Position guys, like so the coaches that are on the sideline,
you're responsible for the substitutions of your position group. So
if it's the secondary, if it's the linebacker, if it's
d line, you have your guys and they should be
there standing right next to you on the sideline for
subbing purposes, especially if it is an offense that doesn't
(38:26):
like the huddle and they're going fast, you have your
subs right there with you. So if a coach sends
a guy on, then there should be a guy coming off.
In this case where you have ten guys, somebody came off.
But obviously there was a miscommunication on why that guy
(38:47):
came off, because otherwise you would have saw the guy
coming in for you that was relieving you of your duty.
So again it happened, Like the reasoning could probably just
be very simple, which generally speaking, it was a player
that had a mental lapse.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
That's the problem is is like, I mean, just like
that part of it. It's not on the player.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
The coach has to be aware of it too, right,
And I mean if the player didn't hear their call
or he's got to know, like, hey, I only have
three defensive linemen out there.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yes, either the DC needs to or they need to.
I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I'm just saying in terms of if they're and I
don't know their process.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I don't know their process.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I just know pretty much every every like defense I
was on in college and in pro our rule of
thumb is if you don't see your guy, you don't
come off.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Like I know who my subs are, so I know.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
If if if you know Sam Shade, or if if
this person, if if Carlos Emmons is coming on for Nickel,
whatever it is, I know who my subs are. If
I don't see my sub if I don't see Reggie
tour Board coming on, I'm not coming off. I'm not
coming off. So it's kind of like one of those things. Yes,
(40:07):
it is on the coach ultimately again for what takes place.
But with that being said, if I'm a player, I
don't need to be a robot either. You know, sometimes
I have to use deductive reasoning, Like okay, they call
this personnel grouping. He could have heard a personnel grouping
or a defense calture, but he's not in that past.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
Ye yeah, I get it that that didn't even speak
through though, whoever the captain is on defense, like a
lot of a quarter like think about it. On offense,
I step out of the huddle because I want to
make sure we have everyone.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's the first thing, the first thing you're responsible for.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
And even in no huddle, I have to communicate the
formation and the play and so I'm looking to make
sure I've got everyone I need.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
So like on our defense, generally a linebacker, a linebacker
doesn't check for the secondary. Though the linebacker checks for
the front group. Well, you have a same cash that's
probably right, right.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
The communication if for the defense is different because a
lot of times it's hand signals. They're looking, they're getting it,
they're not really concerned about who is wearing all that.
What I'm saying, though, is if you've got a captain
at linebacker. You should know both. You should know, hey,
this is the front, this is whatever. Well whatever, you're
unning coverage everything else soon Okay, you have to be
(41:27):
the one to be able to make sure everyone's in
the right spot for where they run fit or they're
coverages right. And so that's the thing is, it doesn't
matter if it's the head coach, the defense coordinator, the
d line coach that to your point of accountability. There's
always a quarterback on one side of the ball. And
in this instance too, like you could look at that
and say, well, these guys got to be aware in
(41:48):
particularly whoever that quarterback is on defense for them and say, dude,
we're missing a guy like it almost in that instance
you you come.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Out of your position to say they're not there.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
I going to go take over where that defensive tackle
is supposed to be because I can't let this offensive
line get a running star at two dbs who are
like looking around, going wait a second, something's off here,
and then snap their football.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
You give up a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Well, somebody again, like you said, before the ball is
about to be snapped, somebody has to see I made
a call. If that call is a quarters a dime
a nickel calling, or if it's a heavy call, why
do I only see three defensive linemen say something like
say it immediately. Don't like what they say to rule
of thumb, don't keep a secret. Say to me three
(42:34):
d lineman, three lineman, like say it like jump off anyway,
that's one thing. They could jump or jump off side
something something, but anyway, that's again. I still think one
of the best things about a team that wins is
that you make I noticed might sound crazy, but you
(42:55):
make your coaches look good. Like if they call a
S call, you may that s into what you need
to make it into.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
If if something needs to be adjusted, like there's been
times where where our guys adjusted play calls like hell no,
we ain't going with that, like like we're going we're
going to do this and and and you make that
call and you make it work, like based off of
what the given scenarios are going on in the game.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
You have to be an extension of your coach.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Sometimes in the game you're going to see the game
much differently than what the coach is going to see
it because you're right there in it. And so to me,
in this moment, in this moment, you got to be
so dialed in that as a player, and like you said,
generally speaking, it is your middle backer. But sometimes, I
mean Derek Brooks was one of the most intelligent dudes like.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
You'd ever and he was a weak side backer. So
you had guys that aren't.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Necessarily in the in the play calling or the quarterback
you know, position to make calls, but they were always
smart enough or always were those type of guys that
would make sure things were what they were supposed to be,
even if they weren't in the middle position or or
at the safety position where you're supposed to be quarterbacking
the d somebody needed to step up and be the.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Brain in that moment. It just didn't happen that way.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I mean, for whatever reason it was, and again I'll
chalk it up to a mental lapse or just a
mistake it was.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
It was just a bigger's the reality. Ohio State took advantage,
you know. Kyle McCrory made some big throws in that
final drive. They saw the weakness. They they ran a
play that look, if if they don't get that, the
game's over. So it's there's some risks to that, but
they saw it, they exploited it, and kudos to them,
Like that's what good teams do. Good teams find ways
of winning football games in the final moments and they
(44:46):
don't make those mistakes. You know, clearly Notre Dame could
match up with them throughout the course of the game.
That's why they had Ohio State in that position. But
you know that, and you don't want to put on
just that one play because there's obviously a series of
plays in which they could have executed and who knows
how different it would have been.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
But that hurt.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
I mean to lose that game that way, that hurts.
And that's one that I've said this before, like you
don't get over that. You don't like, That's one you
have to find peace with. That's one you have to
cope with. And I think the hardest thing is when
you get flat out beat, like when you have a
team that's just better than you and or on that day,
is better than you. It's easier to deal with that
(45:25):
than it is when you made a mistake or you
mess something up, or even if there's any like indecision
on it, because then you're always gonna second guess, like well,
what could have we done different to get a different
outcome to have changed that. So that's the hard thing
for Notre Dame is they got to figure out a
way of moving on, moving past this because it's been
a national piece of conversation. It will continue to be,
(45:46):
you know, a part of the national conversation, especially if
they don't go out there and be duped this week
and then it's two in a row and that's all
people are gonna be talking about.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Watching that game when it came down and they you know,
McCord completed that pass, got it down to the goal line,
and it reminded me so much of the Bush Push game,
just that this was at the same side of the
field as well.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Why would bring that up? It was that end zone.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
But here's the thing I don't get about that. People
have said that, I'm like, what was the same about it?
I mean the drama, yeah, but it.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Like no offense to High State.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
They weren't as good as USC was that y I'm
just saying USC was on a twenty seven game win streak.
I mean, they'd been the back to back national championshi
under three peat and they had two Heisman Trophy winners
on their team, Like first off, the third and nineteen
that they had, they didn't even convert. They got it
to within fourth and nine, then made a big play
on fourth and nine, and so it was to me,
(46:39):
I was kind of like everyone trying to make comparisons
of this game and the feeling and all that to
USC that year, and look, I hate to do this,
but it wasn't as big of a game as it
was that.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
I'm sorry. It wasn't as big a game.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
You're talking about a number one team that you're trying
to knock off and if you win, you have a
chance to win a national championship or go play for
one if they they.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Go on to planet.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
So I will say this does put a lot of
pressure on Notre Dame in terms of just making the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
There's no room for air.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Listen Notre Dame minus six this weekend. It's good. Yeah,
just go ahead and take that and run with it.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Five and a half. It's something.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, DraftKings kind of had it ticked up a little bit.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Did that you had to come back down or do
you not refresh? Listen?
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I got it, I got it all locked and loaded.
Live here tire racked.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Because your studios. You don't hit the refresh page.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
You could buy a half point. There's always that option too,
You tease it. Little gambling talk here for you.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.