October 27, 2023 • 46 mins
It’s a Football Friday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, and the Bills hold off the Bucs 24-18 on TNF. Brady relives a bad beat following a P.I. call on a hail mary. Ravens are rumored to be the front runners in trade talks for Derrick Henry. Brady delivers his weekly “Quinn’s Wins” and Deshaun Watson finally speaks out against the narratives about his desire to play.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar arring, Ray Winn and Jonas Knox on Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Well, good morning, how are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good morning, Good morning, morning exciting.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I I met a couple of observations from last night's game.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
The first is officiating is just as bad as I
think people have been saying. Like I came to the
conclusion watching that game. It is so inconsistent and I
can understand why fans are beside themselves. And then basically
the reactions to that game gave you a really detailed
(00:46):
response to who bet on who and what they bet on.
Because one of our good buddies, Todd Furman, was irate
with how the game was played in that fourth quarter,
and I can guarantee you he laid the points with
Buffalo and he at the.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Over based on his commentary on Twitter. All right, I'll
just gott to leave it at that.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
I mean, because listen, Tampa Bay had no business having
that game at six points with that much time remaining.
I mean, there was the touchdown pass to Evans like
bounced off the defender. Then they went for two, which
I didn't really understand.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
But all.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
That's the whole expected uh expected value, you know method,
It's it's math. You go for two then when you're
down fourteen, and if you get it now you're down six,
So the next time you only have to kick a
pah and you win.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
It's all about looking at your greatest.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Probability of winning the game in regulation as opposed to
if you kick two pats, you're only playing to extend
the game into overtime.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
So that'd be the theory behind it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I mean, I agree with you, Jonas.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You get it, but hey, listen, kick the.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Guy dang field gold, You're not. I mean, I guess
you could say, you know, it's a struggling team, like
let's let's play for the win, but let's kick the
field goal. Keep playing with the pats.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Yeah, Pat, Yeah, I mean look, it's uh, but that's
like a larger discussion with Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Why why is it?
Speaker 6 (02:22):
It seems like it's so much more difficult than it
has to be. And I know those are kind of
flukey plays and that you know, the ball bounced off
the defender, but why is the game that close? At
that point? On a short week with Tampa Bay, it
felt like this was Buffalo at every opportunity to run
away with this thing, and it's like the same conversation
with them every single week. There's just something off, and
(02:47):
I don't know what it is now. You know, Josh Allen,
you know, got nicked up a little bit with that
shoulder issue, but it just feels like they can't close
games and make you feel like, Okay, this is something
here he did against Miami and then since then they
just haven't been able to do it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Is Tampa. Is Tampa a little bit better than what maybe?
Like is Tampa as good as what the score indicated?
Is what I left the game like kind of wondering
not is Buffalo because it seemed as though maybe they struggled,
you know, they struggled a little bit, but it didn't
(03:25):
seem like they struggled because of the stat line. Like
when you look at Josh Allen's stat line, it seemed
like a really really like great game statistically for him,
but it just didn't look like that in the game.
And I don't know why why that is, Like you
see it and it's like, Okay, he's slinging the ball.
You know, at times he ran the ball, but it
(03:49):
was still kind of like you know, for for the
better part of it, it was a manageable a manageable game.
I mean, twenty four twenty four to ten in in
the fourth quarter is still a significant that's a significant lead.
I mean it's a two possession game. That's still a
significant lead. So I don't look at it as being
(04:11):
a close game. But was it closer than what it
should have been? Like if they play against Miami or
if they play against Kansas City, you know, is this
effort is what they are in this game? Is that
good enough to be able to win those games? I
think that's what I left the game wondering.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think what should concern you if you're a Bills
fan is the fact that they couldn't close it out
at home, like where the game became close. Now, granted,
if you looked at the Tampa Bay Bucks in that
final touchdown scoring drive, for then they got bailed out
by a couple of fourth down penalties. However, those were
(04:52):
legitim penalties, I mean dumb play to grab Baker Mayfield's
face mask on what was a game seal sack and
then now you give them new life again. It did
feel like though whenever there was a call, it felt
like Buffalo was the beneficiary of it, or a no
call for that matter. There was a play earlier when
Tampa Dale was backed up, Tron Johnson literally grabs spun
(05:16):
the back around. I can't remember if it was Chase
Evans or Shaun White, but I was like, how the
heck did that? Didn't they like it didn't even get
Amazon to give it another look, And it almost was
getting to the point where I was like, man, there
was some phantom calls. I mean, there was a holding
call where the Tampa Bay Bucks right guard like drove
(05:36):
the Buffalo Bills detackle. I can't remember who it was,
but drove me to the ground. It wasn't like he
held or anything like that. They called a holding on
a long run on the slot, and it wasn't like
that was holding either. I mean, it was just good blocking, honestly,
And in both cases they got called for holding, and
You're going, okay, like this is getting to the point
(05:57):
where it's inconsistent in this game.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
And it gave you a sense like no one wants
to see this Tampa team.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
No one.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
When I say no, no one wants to see this
Tampa team actually being able to compete and make a
run this year. It feels like there were some powers
that be who really wanted Buffalo to make sure they
took care of.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Business in this one. Don't that way, don't you penalty
as it did. But Mike Evans, he I felt like
his touchdown catch was a penalty. I mean it was
clearly a push off on Mike. Mike Evans clearly pushed
off really to get watch watch which one the last
one on his tach Yeah, on his touchdown catch, you
(06:37):
know I pushed off.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I thought so too, but I think.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
He extended him for certain Well, it was a pop
the ball.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
The ball deflected off the defenders.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Off the defender.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
It made it look a little awkward, but it's almost
it's almost as if we just accept mediocrity when it
comes to officiating now, like like, I don't know how
many more times you have to like the hailman. There's
like three different pis there, offensive and defensive.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I mean, there could have been like eight flags.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Like I don't wonder, and it's just like nah, whatever,
it's just a hell Mary, okay, Well, everybody go home happy.
And Mike Evans looked around and we just realized that
to hell, Mary and he helped two guys up and
they walked off the field. That was it, Like we
just were resigned to the fact that this is just
what you're gonna get again.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Poor play, it's poor calls. It's like or lack thereof
or poor calls. N it's just not consistent. Yeah, it's
not consistent.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Like my issue is you're going to call it in
one part of the game. You got to call it
all parts of the game.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Truth.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
That's all I'm saying, Like, be consistent with how you're
calling it. And I know the penalties at the end
of the day probably looked even when it was all
said and done, but again that was only due to
the fact that you had the Buffalo Bills committing some
really bad penalties at the worst opportune time to extend
drives to give Baker Mayfield the Bucks life. Like trust me,
(07:55):
it felt like the Bucks were trying to end that
game and just you know, move on to next week,
and yet the Bills kept giving them a new set
of downs. It was a little bit bizarre at times.
But I don't know, man, I just I feel like
I've learned a little bit more about both teams, where
like the Bucks still have some fighting them they can
keep things competitive and close. Ultimately, for whatever reason, like
(08:19):
their offense just is not going to be consistent enough
to allow them to I think, you know, end up
making a run if they do get to the playoffs,
Like if they get to the playoffs. Defensively, they made
some plays that they hung in there, you know, as
best they could. And Josh Allen for the Bill, so
I was playing a lot of hero ball, which he
has to at times too, Like I feel like that's
(08:40):
the inconsistency there is. They have times when James Cook
can break off big run. Other times nothing's there. I
mean as far as their offensive efficiency, it's really interesting
to look at the Bills and just struggling to like
find any sort of consistency throughout the course of a.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Game, like that goal line stop for Tampa Bay. Like
buff on fourth down, they're interviewing Todd Bowles right before
they come out, I think it was it might have
been the end of the first quarter.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I think it was a second quartion.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Yeah, and then you know Kaylee Hartung's interviewing Todd Bowles
and he's like, like, what do you expect on this
fourth down play goes, I expect the quarterback to run
the football. Everybody expected him to. What happened Dalton kincaid
in motion, You're at the half yard line, they throw it,
gets knocked down, and fans the next time Allen scored
on a touchdown run, we're almost laughing, like or a
cheering as if, yeah, where was that the first time around?
(09:31):
Like they're trying to avoid it, but sometimes that's just
their best option.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I think the Buffalo's defense is a question mark. I
think in particular they're up front, and I know they're
banged up, but I just think their defense is going
to be a question mark moving forward, and what are
they going to bring to the table that maybe because
(09:57):
I think their offense is their I think they're a
little bit spurdy. I don't think they've shown consistency. In fact,
I know they haven't shown consistency in terms of what
they're capable of doing or what they have done at
the highest of levels when they've done it, versus not
being as as explosive as they are, And you know,
(10:19):
maybe the one one game, maybe I say that I
saw them look very very very good, very explosive but
I just think their defense is the pass rush isn't
as pronounced as as it could or should be, and
it doesn't look like the type of defense that would
be able to deal with the more explosive offenses that
(10:42):
they're going to have to face if they're going to
be indeed that team that can take that next step
in the AFC side of the bracket.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean I don't see it, man. And I
think if you're a Bills fan and you're being honest,
like if you see Kansas City in the playoffs, that's
a wrap.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Like I just by the way, would you say with
Baltimore right now, the way Baltimore.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Looks, Yeah, Like I I they feel like there's there's
a tier level in the AFC and the Bills are
nowhere close near the top of the AFC. Like, just
did you not.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
See like von Miller last night and some I mean,
you've got it called for one off sides, but I've
never seen a defender.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Get as good as a jump as he was getting.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I mean it was like if it wasn't off sides,
it was the closest thing I've ever seen or the
perfect timing for getting a jump off that ball. I mean,
Baker every time he dropped back had to step up
immediately in the pocket because Vaughn was literally crashing around
the edge. Like it was so ridiculously good if it
(11:49):
wasn't off sides.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
But it felt like it was almost off sides every time.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
But that was it, Like you got off the ball, great,
got up field, but that was that was it, Like
like prussures and sacks and all that. I mean, I
just didn't feel like he was under duress like he
should have been. From that that the Looks offensive line.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Did a good job, like they kept highlighting worfs working
against a jpinessa.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
And I mean is that now that goes back to
my original point? Then is Tampa Bay better? In my mind?
You know what I mean? Like coming into it, I'm
like Tampa Bay is like a pretty average team or
a five hundred team there? Average team? Are they? Are
they better than what I'm in my mind I'm looking
at them to be No, I didn't think so, but
(12:34):
I mean they they did some things that made them
look kind of decent.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, I thought I thought like the Bills did a
good job when they needed they just for whatever reason
couldn't kind of close things out, and I think a
lot of people were taking, you know, frustration in Sean
McDermott's decisions when he did have fourth and twos. He
did have fourth and I think a fourth and one
as well. Yeah, and he really really played super conservative, right,
(13:00):
didn't go for it in either instance. It you know, tried
to leave the team out there and try to draw
the bucks off sides. And that's so different than most
analytical plays that we see nowadays, where most teams say, no,
I've juck Shallen, I'm gonna do a quarterback run, I'm
gonna get the first down. Games over, I'm never gonna
give Tampa Bay the ball back with any chance to
(13:20):
throw a hail mary, which was a perfectly thrown ball
hail mary. But as Jonas kind of pointed out, like
could have probably thrown the flag on four or five
different instances.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Isn't that would turn it around again either way? Right,
Like you could have thrown it on the defense and
the offense on the hill.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
It's just like, I wonder, has there ever been a
PI thrown on a hail mary?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Like I don't know why this, I'm just saying, I know,
you know, I've got a story of that about that.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
I really don't tell us tell us, I swear to you,
I don't tell us.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
We we lost in when I was in Cleveland.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Literally when I was in Cleveland, we lost on the
final play of a game on a defensive pim Calvin Johnson,
and he gave Matt Stafford and the Lions an untimed down.
He threw a touchdown pass and they kicked the pat
and to win.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
I'm sorry, was this when Stafford was a rookie he
had the shoulder injury, like yes, and he did the
sneak and it was like, oh, his toughness got it,
gutted him through it.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh man, didn't they push a man on? That wasn't
like that a push in. It wasn't a sneak. He
threw a pass. After that, he came in, they put
Calpepper in. Carl Pepper came back out, and they put
him back in like after. They took some time, and
then he threw a touchdown pass and then they kicked
the pat and it was over.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Oh man, Well that sucks. I do have something that's
going to make you feel better, though.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I mean, the biggest buzz kill I've ever experienced next
to the private bush push, but only because like you
kind of looked at the bush push like, well, like
you kind of like those guys are gonna be tough
to stop when you've got the game down to a
hill Mary and you're up on the other side and
you're like, oh, I gotta call p I yes they are,
(15:05):
and there goes the game.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
So when Rogers beat Detroit with that hell Mary, you
must have loved it, like, how's it feel like?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
How's it feel like? Now you know what it's like.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't feel anything. I just
watched it. I was like, Wow, it's a really good
hell Mary throw.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's a hell Mary. What a catch I got?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I got something you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Want to feel with me. I can't run quick. See
what do we have here? Now? Do you want to Yeah?
Speaker 7 (15:39):
Gohad go ahead, don't push me. Revenge is like the
sweetest joy next to come on show be showing who
they are. You got a big he just know what
to think right now?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Hey Q, you had big headphones that you definitely had
big headphones. You had bass headphones. You didn't have the
little ones. Man. Your headphones covered your ears. Were you
used to Were you around when they had like CDs
you had? Did you have to have a CD binder? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, I used to have the one where like you
could like drop kick it, but it was like Patior.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Big as big as hell, like could carry like you
had like twenty pages of front and back. Yeah, yeah,
of course. Okay. I banged with you more and more,
dog like, I bet like I get to know some
things about you, like what you just didn't bang with
you a little bit bored every day, Jonas, go ahead, man, Friday,
(16:47):
come on, come on Friday. We're saying there Friday. Alright, alright,
(17:10):
you gotta go to the other one. You gotta do
it the whole way. Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
Yeah, Canday, it is a football Friday. Here on Two
Pros and a Cup of Joe on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six a m. Eastern three am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Here's one thing that we do know that's never going
to change. It's the success and the popularity.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Of Quinn's wins. It's back for a Friday morning, baby.
I'll look around college football with the one and only
Brady Quinn.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Well, the problem with this week is there's not really
that many Top twenty five matchups and so we've only
got a couple of games to go with.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
But it starts off with the big one, in my opinion.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
An elimination game in the Pac twelve on Fox at
three thirty pm Eastern Time twelve thirty pm Pacific.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
The one loss Oregon Ducks and bow Knicks they had
to Salt Lake, the take on the Utes.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Utah sitting number thirteen in the country at six and
one coming off their big beatdown of USC, and again,
like I said, this is an elimination game. Neither of
these teams can afford a loss if they want to
try to win the Pac twelve and make it to
the College Football Playoff. And a storyline we've seen really
all year with Utah is overcoming the fact that Cam Rising,
their starting quarterback, is not going to be back this season.
(18:52):
We heard officially last week from head coach Kyle Whittingham
that he's not going to be back, so it will
be Bryson Barnes who's been basically playing spot duty and
starting from time to time, along with the backup there
Nate Johnson. But really what stood out last week Jaquindon Jackson,
a running back for them, and SiO Divaki, a converted
safety to running back, both showed up big versus that
(19:13):
sc defense to get the win, and the ground game
is going to be really what allows Utah to hang
around in this one. That and a suffocating defense, the
best rush defense in the Pac twelve taken on an
Oregon team that can.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Run the football effectively.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
However, to me, the difference in this game is Organ's
ability to create big plays on the outside. Tony Franklin
Junior in particular, of the outstanding wide.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Receiver at Oregon.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
That's where this Utah offense has been or defense has
been different this year, giving up some of the big plays,
allowing bow Knicks in particular too to not only make
plays downfield but also with his legs in this one,
so two very evenly matched teams, this number at Utah
getting six and a half points at home to me
looked a little fishy, And I think it's a part
(20:00):
because we're underscoring just how good this Oregon team is.
So I'm gonna lay the points and the road favorite
in a tough environment.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
And I know it goes.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Against the trend here for Utah, but I think Oregon
takes care of business and tries to make its claim
for getting back to a PAC twelve championship game and
potentially the.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
College Football Playoff.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
And the only other game this week where we've got
two top twenty five teams squaring office in the ACC,
We've got Mike Elko's Duke head to Louisville and take
on Jeff Brohm and the Cardinals.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
And reality here.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Is this, There's two really good defensive teams, and stopping
to run Duke is as good as it gets in
the ACC, and Louisville's right there behind him. Jorge Jordan
is the outstanding running back at Louisville who to me
is going to be the difference in this game. He's
just too tough to stop. He's a big playmaking machine.
And Duke's quarterback Robert Leonard, we saw him last week,
tried to play as a big banged up wasn't overly effective.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Should be a little healthier.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
This time around, but there's just not much juice in
that passing game at Duke versus Louisville defense that's been
pretty good. The only concerned here is Jack Plumber, the
quarterback in Louisville. He's had a few games this year
when when he throws turnovers, they usually come in bunches
three seven times it's throwing for a couple interceptions.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
Jamari Thrash will be his main target.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I think Jeff Brohm and Louisville finds a way of
getting their playmakers the ball and different opportunities, and I
just don't think Duke's canna be able to hang with them.
So lay the four and a half points with Louisville
at home.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about.
Find that somewhere else. It's not a shot in hell.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Hey, by the way, how long before Mike Elco takes
some Michigan State job.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Maybe you're waiting to see how things kind of finish
out this season. I mean, this is obviously a team
right now that's still in the thick of it for
the ACC And I think furthermore, if you're looking at
just you know, with everything's happened in the State of Michigan,
maybe when I Horrboss even there or not at the
University of Michigan if that job doesn't necessarily become open.
(22:05):
So how do you mean which is the better job,
Michigan State or the University of Michigan.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
It's Michigan.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
You can trust their their pregame trivia questions on the
board more at Michigan than you can at Michigan State.
You know, wow, with someone there just saying, man, they
did it, you know, And then people want to complain
about somebody you know, looking at some signals, you know,
from somebody else's sideline. Come on, man, And then I think,
is there a chance that they're going to speed up
(22:32):
this investigation to the point where Michigan gets punished this year?
It feels like we're being really aggressive with the how
they're looking at this Michigan stuff. Like they basically served
up everything to the NCAAA, Like there's been an investigation
going on. Somebody got access to Michigan's documents somehow, some way,
(22:55):
and that's how they had all this evidence and then
just served it up to the NCAA last week.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
There's so many different things going on right now that
are fascinating, Like the FBI has been doing an investigation
under Mattueze, who's a former offensive coordinator for computer crimes,
and so I don't know if somehow that came across
some of the different things that are happening with the
signaling and how this all got leaked, because that's the
(23:20):
reality of this whole sign stealing scandal as teams have
known for it for a while. There's an in depth
discussion with TCU last year about how basically in this
semi final game versus Michigan they knew how elaborate Michigan
stealing sign stealing operation was, that they didn't do anything
they'd ever done before. It was all dummy signals, and
(23:41):
so I'm not really sure how effective it was. I
kind of pointed out earlier this week the one viral
clip over with Ohio State last year and CJ. Stroud
on offense versus Michigan, and everyone's making a big deal
about that sign stealing that played literally resulted in a
touchdown pass to a Mecca a Buca. So sometimes like
we make such a big deal about this, yet it
(24:02):
may have played to the detriment of Michigan in some ways,
at least in some of those instances. It's not like
they beat TCU. I know they beat Ohio State, but again,
you heard TCU. Kind I already talk about it, but
I do wonder how this all got out there. The
one thing that I think has been floated out there
that I've heard and makes a lot of senses. There
(24:24):
is a lot of reports about Harbaugh looking for a
contract extension, and he does not have a good relationship
with the athletic director a ward manual.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
That's not opinion, that's a fact.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Other people have discussed this, but those extension talks have
now been put on hold because of this investigation because
they don't know how high this goes up.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
And it leads to the thought of cause. If you
did provide.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
An extension, or if you were looking for a way
to get out from underneath the head coach that almost
tried to burn you last year of the NFL, and
you don't have a great relationship with and hasn't been
cooperative with the NCA in the past and their investigations,
this would be a way of doing it, of creating
cause at least to get out from underneath him. Harbaugh
(25:09):
and any money that's owed to him based on what's
being alleged right now.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
I just love how how this all comes out now
that oh, everybody knew about this for a while, you have,
but nobody said anything because they were probably doing something
along the lines as well too.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Like it just the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I just find suspect the fans are on harball side too,
by the way like they think and largely what I've
read and have seen that Harball should be the highest
paid coach in college football, at least one of them,
with the way he's been able to build the program.
So this clearly would have to be something that you
(25:49):
categorize as a way of putting that out there to
the fan base to possibly justify anything that you may
bring against HERTA if you're the university. I mean, I
really believe that that's that. Really, you can't justify not
paying that man more money. For one, you can't be
(26:12):
upset that he's looking to go to the pros if
he's not feeling appreciated by his alma mater. And is
it good enough to just say there isn't a good
relationship between the athletic director and the head coach that
is having success that by the way, is an alumni
of the school that just isn't that's not going to
boat well like that could actually cost that ad their job.
(26:35):
That could actually in the end that could cost the
president of the school their job, depending on how it
all plays out.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
So remember two things here the timeline COVID year Harbaught
takes a pay cut because lack of performance COVID, how
it impacted the school, everything else. Then they start winning
Big Ten championships and that's where you see Harball probably
frustrated with the fact that he had to take the
pay cut in the first place, but then also searches
(27:03):
for some other NFL head coaching jobs or at least
entertains it. Then, on top of that, non cooperative in
an investigation about recruiting violations over that COVID period. So
that's kind of how we got to this fracture relationship
between Ward Manual and Jim Harbaugh. But the question will
ultimately come down to this, how high does the Connors
(27:25):
Stallions sign stealing operation go up If it's all the
way up through to Jim Harbaugh and really the institution
of the University of Michigan they'll probably be somewhat of
a pretty punitive penalty.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
From the NCAA.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
I mean, the NCAA has penalized multiple universities for self
reporting things that didn't play any role whatsoever and an
advantage on the field, but more had to do with
student athlete eligibility, let alone, this creating what is deemed
to be at least an advantage, and some would think so,
it really is going to come down to how high
does this go up at the University of Michigan. And
(28:03):
if it goes up to Jim Harbaugh can be traced
up to Jim Harbaugh, that's when you could be looking
at again if they wanted to move on then being
able to do so with cause, which would negate any
future compensation that Harbaugh should be rewarded or is at
least guaranteed in his contract.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific,
two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you
right into the NBA Great Five.
Speaker 9 (28:36):
All happening in only one place this league Uncut, the
new NBA podcast with Me, Chris.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Haynes and me.
Speaker 9 (28:45):
Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound
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Speaker 3 (28:49):
Hearing and Chason.
Speaker 8 (28:51):
Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes and Mark Stein.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
We've been tracking the Deshaun Watson storyline, have we I
don't know if anybody.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Has been caught at or has it been tracking us?
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Some would say that as well too, okay, And there's
been some speculation since he's going to miss another game
this week, PJ. Walker is going to be the quarterback that,
you know, maybe Deshaun Watson doesn't want to play, and
that's been sort of, you know, thrown out there.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Now.
Speaker 6 (29:30):
The person at the forefront of that narrative is one
LeVar Arrington.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh jeezus, pounding the table.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Pounding the table over this sounds snooze to me, but okay.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
But in all seriousness, there has been that conversation out there.
That conversation has taking place on this show because it's fair, it's.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Logical, Yes, a question does he want to play?
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Because the timeline doesn't make sense it doesn't have up. Well,
Deshaun Watson has heard all that. Like he is, he
has heard all of those narratives, and so he spoke
with the media yesterday to try and respond to the
claims that maybe he just doesn't want to play.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I wouldn't never want to play.
Speaker 10 (30:15):
I just I was just work myself for two years
to get back to playing. So why wouldn't I want
to play? This is what I've been doing since I
was six years old, So I wouldn't want to play.
I see, I see the same things. I see all
the narratives. This that the third I mean, all that
stuff is just trying to call controversy and commotion. You know,
I'm fine, I'm happy. I'm not happy with the injury,
(30:38):
but you know, I'm in a great space mentally, I'm
in a great space spiritually, physically, everything else is in
a great space except my shoulder.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
So we're working hard to get that back.
Speaker 10 (30:48):
But yeah, why wouldn't I want to play?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I don't.
Speaker 10 (30:51):
I don't do this for no other reason. So yeah,
I see that too. I see the whole contract situation
and all that stuff. Yeah, that's stuff is just for
people to talk and and just great narratives.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Yeah, so I don't think it's about creating narratives. I
think it's a fair question to ask when looking at
the storylines that are you know, coming from from Cleveland,
from what's being written about, you know, how how his
injuries have been handled. You know, you're going to say
(31:25):
everything is great, Oh, except for my shoulder, like I
mean great health, I mean except for my shoulder. Like listen,
I'm not one to attack or even try to speculate
in terms of where a guy's heart is and where
where his you know, kind of his priorities lie as
(31:47):
as it you know, pertains to playing the game or
anything like that. And I'm certainly not one to base
it off of their pocket. But if we're being honest
and we're being realistic, and this is one of the
main points that has been made when we talk about
and discuss the the Shaun Watson topic, is that if
(32:10):
he did not have a guaranteed contract, what would he
be handling his injury situation the same exact way. And
so to me, when when you have those type of discussions,
there's the possibilities that looking at how his demeanor is,
(32:34):
which a lot of quarterbacks have detached looking demeanors. I mean,
Eli Manning's demeanor was one of the most detached you
could ever see. You know, you think about Jay Cutler,
he had a weird ass type of demeanor that just
didn't seem like it was you know, conduce it to
having great relationships with your teammates, whatever it may be.
(32:56):
But you play in a sport where people are going
to speculate about something, especially when you make the type
of money. You know, you set a record, you made history,
and you're right, you have work to get back out
there on the field for the last two years and
you're not on it. So what are we supposed to
do just sit back and say, oh, you know, when
(33:19):
when he gets better, he'll be back on the field,
moving on. I just don't think it's that simple. It's
not that easy, especially when you have a coaching staff
that you know, kind of it seems like they're still
kind of trying to shield him from any type of
criticisms that may come his way. But at the same time,
almost lightweight are like, you know, he's cleared to play,
(33:41):
but we're just going to try to protect him and
make sure he's one hundred percent where he needs to
be when we put him back out there.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
The distraction is just created by the media. What are
they're created?
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But they're created by the Browns him and is our
team and how they've handled the discussing the injury. And
then honestly, I think it's the wild speculation of the
doctors who get involved in his stuff, who aren't actually
looking at him, because they're the ones who want to
(34:15):
put out these timelines that gives everyone else on the
outside who doesn't have who's not an MD or a
PhD or anything else, an idea of when he should
come back. And yet they've never talked to him or
diagnosed him with the specific injury. They're just reading what
everyone else is reading. The only difference is they've got
that title behind there. So if you really better to
(34:35):
be real about how the timeline for his return and
when he was going to come back, and the confusion
as to the severity of the injury or if he's
heard or injured and all that, I mean it comes
down to the Browns and how they initially said, yeah, he's.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Cleared to play. Okay, Well, if he's clear to play,
then why isn't he playing?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
And you really didn't hear anything from Deshaun Watson or
his camp, at least not.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
The specifics to what he was dealing with.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
So if you want, like, you can blame whatever else
you want.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
And that's pretty typical of a lot of people in
today's society. They point everywhere else and they want to
blame everything else. But the truth of the matter is,
like everyone's been kind of left in the dark this
whole situation and trying to put two and two together.
And as I've stated before, like when you see other
guys who are and by the way, I called into
a local Cleveland radio station yesterday and they were really
(35:34):
trying to, you know, defend everything. Well, well, he wants
to play, he wou say, Okay, Well, the reality is
if that's the case, then he's more vocal about it
now than he was a month ago.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
And they're like, well, the shoulder injury for a quarterback
is different than a calf injury to quarterback.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
It's like, well, yeah, of course they're different injuries, but
one's going to impact everything you do when you have
a lower body extremity injury. Okay, it affects handoffs, getting
out from under center, all of that. Joe Burrow's dealt
with that the entire season still played. You can look
(36:10):
at other players who dealt with injuries like throwing. Of course,
that's your money maker, that's what matters the most, and
so if you don't want to be out there, you
can't put one hundred percent, that's fine, that's his decision
to make. But the truth is is like, if you
don't want people to talk about it, then address it
and be on the same page as the team. Because
it didn't feel like the Browns and Deshaun Watson and
(36:33):
his camp were on the same team. It felt like
there were two separate camps and how things were being handled,
and so if there's confusion in it, you could again
point to everyone else. But the truth of the matter
is that I don't think the Browns and Deshaun Watson's
camp had had a really good strategy for how they're
going to communicate this to everyone else out there that
was wondering, like why he's not back, if they're going
(36:55):
to lead to a report that says he was medically
cleared or is medically clear.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
The messaging was awful from get go, like if he
had been put on, if he had been put on IR,
so he's gonna miss four weeks.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Which, by the way, they just should have done in
the first list. It would have solved all.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
Of this because they've said he's done no further damage.
But the injury he has is a four to six
week injury. Okay, So why didn't you put him on
IR back then?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Like that?
Speaker 6 (37:17):
Like that's why the timeline None of this makes any sense.
Had they put him on IR, nobody's asking questions. Had
his coach not said he was medically cleared but decided
not to play, nobody would have asked these questions. Had
he not then missed another game and then had a
bye week and then left a game been checked for
a concussion, they look at his shoulder via MRI and determine, yeah,
(37:40):
he was clear to return in that game and there's
no further damage. Nobody's asking these questions. It's process of elimination.
People are trying to find out, like us, Okay, so
why isn't he playing?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And it is also the team also addressed the fact
that it was in the concussion symptoms that they were
discussing as the reason why or why not he shouldn't
return to that game and he was cool you didn't
hear them. You did not hear them bring up the shoulder.
It was Deshaun Watson that brought up the shoulders after
(38:12):
that conversation of him leaving the game that he suffered
the concussion symptoms but cleared concussion protocol.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
And then they had an MRI and it was determined
no further damage was suffered in the game that he
returned from, just a little bit of swelling. It's like,
these are all fair questions, and it is interesting how
they brought up the calf issue in Cleveland because they're
probably hearing from people in the state that are going well.
Joe Burrow kept playing, he's got a calf issue. I mean,
Derek Carr suffered the sprained ac joint, never missed a
(38:42):
game like he was, so like, none of it.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It doesn't j Pickett's it came back from injury to
play ball to yes, I forget what he suffered the
weak prior, but I mean there's there's other and again,
and everyone's injury is different, everyone's tolerance to it, it's different,
and how they want to impact the play. But that's
that's what's been confusing, I think for Browns fans and
then that's the other thing that gets thrown under the
radar is everyone wants to talk about, like I mean,
(39:07):
this impacts the Browns the most, and if you think
about the Browns fan base, they signed on to Deshaun
Watson when they made this this signing, which was the
first ever in NFL history for a big money deal
like this and coming off of not playing football for
reasons that we're all very well aware of. But they
(39:28):
had to sign on to that. And now since he's
gotten there last year, obviously he had to serve his
time away until he could come back.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
It didn't look great when he got back.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
This year hasn't looked great, and so they've had to
sign on to all of this and deal with all
of this, and yet like they're kind of just sitting
back at the wayside being like, man, we just want
to win football games, you know, we just don't want
any of this drama, don't.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
We just want to win football games. It's all we
care about.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
And by the way, guaranteed contract. Jonas Rady a serious
ass legal situation that you had to overcome, as you mentioned,
and not playing consistently because here.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
I had soon on social media some mom in Texas
was like, it's classless what you said. I hope the
network's looking at I'm like, you think what I said jokingly.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
On X was classless. I was like, do you know
what was settled? What was a legend? Do you know
as a woman, as a mom, what was a legend?
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Like, Okay, let's just let's just check the facts there,
Like it is so funny to me, man, people in
this world and their opinions and how they'll literally be
like that comment. I'm like, oh, okay, Well, I also
didn't go to sixty plus massage therapists in my time,
and God knows only what took place between two people
(40:54):
or a few people in.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
That room and what happened and with the people.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
You can't you can't just brush that under the rug
and just say, well, that has nothing to do with
the conversation.
Speaker 6 (41:04):
By the way, you know, my favorite part of the
clip from Deshaun Watson is when he said, are you serious?
I worked my ass off the past two years to return.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
What do you mean? What'd you do?
Speaker 6 (41:13):
Not walk into the place and had the neon lights
out in front of it?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Like, what was how hard did you work to come back?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
You didn't.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
You didn't get in a car wreck and nearly die,
You got popped because a hundred different massage therapists were
claiming that you were being a weirdo, Like what are
we talking about here?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Then, but again you have to you have to make
it a point to say that's what makes him such
a polarizing figure. A guaranteed contract after such a turbulent
moment in time, which by the way, has it's unprecedented
what took place, Like, we've never heard of anything like that.
(41:51):
I mean, you've heard of guys going on the street
before Super Bowls and soliciting, you know, and stuff like that.
Like you, I mean, you've you've heard of some really
really degenerate moments that have taken place with players, but
we've never heard anything quite like this.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, that was a good old days. We're spart Robin.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You know. It's right, you go missing in Tijuana before
the day before the biggest game in the world is
being played. But we've never heard something quite like this,
and then for it for it to be followed up
with a ginormous, fully guaranteed contract, it's just going to
be a conversation. So you can't get sensitive and you
(42:33):
can't sit there and say, you know, try to buck
back at the media or whatever, like it's just trying
to create confusion or it's trying to create this false narrative. No,
that is the narrative, because when you get that type
of money guarantee to you, there's always going to be
intense scrutiny surrounding what you do. Deshaun Watson was playing
and he was completing games, the conversations would be based
(42:57):
off of a lot of factors going into what his
performance looks like in those games. You're going to scrutinize
and you're going to criticize, and you're and some people
will lad, Okay, he's overcome this, you know, look at
the way he's playing. Like the Browns are. It's paying
dividends to them believing in Deshaun Watson. Moving forward, whatever
(43:18):
the storyline is going to be, there's still going to
be an intense amount of scrutiny, an intense amount of
attention that's paid to everything that Deshaun Watson does because
it's just unheard of what we saw and what we
experience hearing his what saga play out through the media.
(43:41):
That's it, Like you can't get upset over that. I'm sorry.
You can't sit there and say somebody's trying to cause
confusion for the Browns. You know what confusion is given
a guy who's fighting those type of lawsuits, a fully
guaranteed contract that's the most guaranteed and the first time
in the history of of the game, that's what it is.
(44:02):
So I mean, just get over it. That's off to me.
Just really just get over it and be able to
deal with whatever it is that anybody's going to say,
because to be so nonchalant about it, it's like we're
always people are always going to kind of look at
it and reference at least if you paid attention. I
reference back to how he was responding when all of
(44:23):
the sound bites were coming out from when he was
doing his interviews, and not interviews for football, but his interviews.
In terms of him talking being disposed on what took place,
it was just very detached. It was very matter as
a matter of fact and kind of dismissive. And that's
kind of how he handles his conversations. That's not on
(44:46):
me or anybody else who may talk about him. That's
on him and the people that are protect you know,
speaking on his path.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
It's just wild when you think, what under industry or
where else in the world would someone get a contract
like that given the allegations that were against them, Like,
would you really think back to that, Like where else
in society does that ever happen?
Speaker 5 (45:09):
Probably you think thirty different allegations.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
And you get two hundred and thirty million guaranteed to
you for your performance.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I would actually argue opposite. I think people who got two.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Hundred and thirty million, who have the sort of allegations
lose everything.
Speaker 6 (45:25):
Yeah, it's just what a what a weird situation. But
everybody else's fault so.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
Well, that's the thing is like, oh, I guess he's
the victim or I guess, like you know, we want
to blame other things.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
It's like, no, man, we didn't put ourselves in that situation.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
It's a nice attempt to flip it. That's that's exactly
you usually your spot on with what you just said
that it's an attempt to flip it on him into
a sympathetic figure.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
It's just David Mulugeta's the truth.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
That's what it is. That could have had some music
to it. Oh my, I'm not asking for music, Sam,
I'm just saying, oh my gosh, that's one of those moments.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Come with me.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Hell, Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR
to listen live.
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar arring, Ray Winn and Jonas Knox on Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Well, good morning, how are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good morning, Good morning, morning exciting.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I I met a couple of observations from last night's game.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
The first is officiating is just as bad as I
think people have been saying. Like I came to the
conclusion watching that game. It is so inconsistent and I
can understand why fans are beside themselves. And then basically
the reactions to that game gave you a really detailed
(00:46):
response to who bet on who and what they bet on.
Because one of our good buddies, Todd Furman, was irate
with how the game was played in that fourth quarter,
and I can guarantee you he laid the points with
Buffalo and he at the.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Over based on his commentary on Twitter. All right, I'll
just gott to leave it at that.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
I mean, because listen, Tampa Bay had no business having
that game at six points with that much time remaining.
I mean, there was the touchdown pass to Evans like
bounced off the defender. Then they went for two, which
I didn't really understand.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
But all.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
That's the whole expected uh expected value, you know method,
It's it's math. You go for two then when you're
down fourteen, and if you get it now you're down six,
So the next time you only have to kick a
pah and you win.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
It's all about looking at your greatest.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Probability of winning the game in regulation as opposed to
if you kick two pats, you're only playing to extend
the game into overtime.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
So that'd be the theory behind it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I mean, I agree with you, Jonas.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You get it, but hey, listen, kick the.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Guy dang field gold, You're not. I mean, I guess
you could say, you know, it's a struggling team, like
let's let's play for the win, but let's kick the
field goal. Keep playing with the pats.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Yeah, Pat, Yeah, I mean look, it's uh, but that's
like a larger discussion with Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Why why is it?
Speaker 6 (02:22):
It seems like it's so much more difficult than it
has to be. And I know those are kind of
flukey plays and that you know, the ball bounced off
the defender, but why is the game that close? At
that point? On a short week with Tampa Bay, it
felt like this was Buffalo at every opportunity to run
away with this thing, and it's like the same conversation
with them every single week. There's just something off, and
(02:47):
I don't know what it is now. You know, Josh Allen,
you know, got nicked up a little bit with that
shoulder issue, but it just feels like they can't close
games and make you feel like, Okay, this is something
here he did against Miami and then since then they
just haven't been able to do it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Is Tampa. Is Tampa a little bit better than what maybe?
Like is Tampa as good as what the score indicated?
Is what I left the game like kind of wondering
not is Buffalo because it seemed as though maybe they struggled,
you know, they struggled a little bit, but it didn't
(03:25):
seem like they struggled because of the stat line. Like
when you look at Josh Allen's stat line, it seemed
like a really really like great game statistically for him,
but it just didn't look like that in the game.
And I don't know why why that is, Like you
see it and it's like, Okay, he's slinging the ball.
You know, at times he ran the ball, but it
(03:49):
was still kind of like you know, for for the
better part of it, it was a manageable a manageable game.
I mean, twenty four twenty four to ten in in
the fourth quarter is still a significant that's a significant lead.
I mean it's a two possession game. That's still a
significant lead. So I don't look at it as being
(04:11):
a close game. But was it closer than what it
should have been? Like if they play against Miami or
if they play against Kansas City, you know, is this
effort is what they are in this game? Is that
good enough to be able to win those games? I
think that's what I left the game wondering.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think what should concern you if you're a Bills
fan is the fact that they couldn't close it out
at home, like where the game became close. Now, granted,
if you looked at the Tampa Bay Bucks in that
final touchdown scoring drive, for then they got bailed out
by a couple of fourth down penalties. However, those were
(04:52):
legitim penalties, I mean dumb play to grab Baker Mayfield's
face mask on what was a game seal sack and
then now you give them new life again. It did
feel like though whenever there was a call, it felt
like Buffalo was the beneficiary of it, or a no
call for that matter. There was a play earlier when
Tampa Dale was backed up, Tron Johnson literally grabs spun
(05:16):
the back around. I can't remember if it was Chase
Evans or Shaun White, but I was like, how the
heck did that? Didn't they like it didn't even get
Amazon to give it another look, And it almost was
getting to the point where I was like, man, there
was some phantom calls. I mean, there was a holding
call where the Tampa Bay Bucks right guard like drove
(05:36):
the Buffalo Bills detackle. I can't remember who it was,
but drove me to the ground. It wasn't like he
held or anything like that. They called a holding on
a long run on the slot, and it wasn't like
that was holding either. I mean, it was just good blocking, honestly,
And in both cases they got called for holding, and
You're going, okay, like this is getting to the point
(05:57):
where it's inconsistent in this game.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
And it gave you a sense like no one wants
to see this Tampa team.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
No one.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
When I say no, no one wants to see this
Tampa team actually being able to compete and make a
run this year. It feels like there were some powers
that be who really wanted Buffalo to make sure they
took care of.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Business in this one. Don't that way, don't you penalty
as it did. But Mike Evans, he I felt like
his touchdown catch was a penalty. I mean it was
clearly a push off on Mike. Mike Evans clearly pushed
off really to get watch watch which one the last
one on his tach Yeah, on his touchdown catch, you
(06:37):
know I pushed off.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I thought so too, but I think.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
He extended him for certain Well, it was a pop
the ball.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
The ball deflected off the defenders.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Off the defender.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
It made it look a little awkward, but it's almost
it's almost as if we just accept mediocrity when it
comes to officiating now, like like, I don't know how
many more times you have to like the hailman. There's
like three different pis there, offensive and defensive.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I mean, there could have been like eight flags.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Like I don't wonder, and it's just like nah, whatever,
it's just a hell Mary, okay, Well, everybody go home happy.
And Mike Evans looked around and we just realized that
to hell, Mary and he helped two guys up and
they walked off the field. That was it, Like we
just were resigned to the fact that this is just
what you're gonna get again.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Poor play, it's poor calls. It's like or lack thereof
or poor calls. N it's just not consistent. Yeah, it's
not consistent.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Like my issue is you're going to call it in
one part of the game. You got to call it
all parts of the game.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Truth.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
That's all I'm saying, Like, be consistent with how you're
calling it. And I know the penalties at the end
of the day probably looked even when it was all
said and done, but again that was only due to
the fact that you had the Buffalo Bills committing some
really bad penalties at the worst opportune time to extend
drives to give Baker Mayfield the Bucks life. Like trust me,
(07:55):
it felt like the Bucks were trying to end that
game and just you know, move on to next week,
and yet the Bills kept giving them a new set
of downs. It was a little bit bizarre at times.
But I don't know, man, I just I feel like
I've learned a little bit more about both teams, where
like the Bucks still have some fighting them they can
keep things competitive and close. Ultimately, for whatever reason, like
(08:19):
their offense just is not going to be consistent enough
to allow them to I think, you know, end up
making a run if they do get to the playoffs,
Like if they get to the playoffs. Defensively, they made
some plays that they hung in there, you know, as
best they could. And Josh Allen for the Bill, so
I was playing a lot of hero ball, which he
has to at times too, Like I feel like that's
(08:40):
the inconsistency there is. They have times when James Cook
can break off big run. Other times nothing's there. I
mean as far as their offensive efficiency, it's really interesting
to look at the Bills and just struggling to like
find any sort of consistency throughout the course of a.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Game, like that goal line stop for Tampa Bay. Like
buff on fourth down, they're interviewing Todd Bowles right before
they come out, I think it was it might have
been the end of the first quarter.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I think it was a second quartion.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Yeah, and then you know Kaylee Hartung's interviewing Todd Bowles
and he's like, like, what do you expect on this
fourth down play goes, I expect the quarterback to run
the football. Everybody expected him to. What happened Dalton kincaid
in motion, You're at the half yard line, they throw it,
gets knocked down, and fans the next time Allen scored
on a touchdown run, we're almost laughing, like or a
cheering as if, yeah, where was that the first time around?
(09:31):
Like they're trying to avoid it, but sometimes that's just
their best option.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I think the Buffalo's defense is a question mark. I
think in particular they're up front, and I know they're
banged up, but I just think their defense is going
to be a question mark moving forward, and what are
they going to bring to the table that maybe because
(09:57):
I think their offense is their I think they're a
little bit spurdy. I don't think they've shown consistency. In fact,
I know they haven't shown consistency in terms of what
they're capable of doing or what they have done at
the highest of levels when they've done it, versus not
being as as explosive as they are, And you know,
(10:19):
maybe the one one game, maybe I say that I
saw them look very very very good, very explosive but
I just think their defense is the pass rush isn't
as pronounced as as it could or should be, and
it doesn't look like the type of defense that would
be able to deal with the more explosive offenses that
(10:42):
they're going to have to face if they're going to
be indeed that team that can take that next step
in the AFC side of the bracket.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Yeah, I mean I don't see it, man. And I
think if you're a Bills fan and you're being honest,
like if you see Kansas City in the playoffs, that's
a wrap.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Like I just by the way, would you say with
Baltimore right now, the way Baltimore.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Looks, Yeah, Like I I they feel like there's there's
a tier level in the AFC and the Bills are
nowhere close near the top of the AFC. Like, just
did you not.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
See like von Miller last night and some I mean,
you've got it called for one off sides, but I've
never seen a defender.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Get as good as a jump as he was getting.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I mean it was like if it wasn't off sides,
it was the closest thing I've ever seen or the
perfect timing for getting a jump off that ball. I mean,
Baker every time he dropped back had to step up
immediately in the pocket because Vaughn was literally crashing around
the edge. Like it was so ridiculously good if it
(11:49):
wasn't off sides.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
But it felt like it was almost off sides every time.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
But that was it, Like you got off the ball, great,
got up field, but that was that was it, Like
like prussures and sacks and all that. I mean, I
just didn't feel like he was under duress like he
should have been. From that that the Looks offensive line.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Did a good job, like they kept highlighting worfs working
against a jpinessa.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
And I mean is that now that goes back to
my original point? Then is Tampa Bay better? In my mind?
You know what I mean? Like coming into it, I'm
like Tampa Bay is like a pretty average team or
a five hundred team there? Average team? Are they? Are
they better than what I'm in my mind I'm looking
at them to be No, I didn't think so, but
(12:34):
I mean they they did some things that made them
look kind of decent.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, I thought I thought like the Bills did a
good job when they needed they just for whatever reason
couldn't kind of close things out, and I think a
lot of people were taking, you know, frustration in Sean
McDermott's decisions when he did have fourth and twos. He
did have fourth and I think a fourth and one
as well. Yeah, and he really really played super conservative, right,
(13:00):
didn't go for it in either instance. It you know, tried
to leave the team out there and try to draw
the bucks off sides. And that's so different than most
analytical plays that we see nowadays, where most teams say, no,
I've juck Shallen, I'm gonna do a quarterback run, I'm
gonna get the first down. Games over, I'm never gonna
give Tampa Bay the ball back with any chance to
(13:20):
throw a hail mary, which was a perfectly thrown ball
hail mary. But as Jonas kind of pointed out, like
could have probably thrown the flag on four or five
different instances.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Isn't that would turn it around again either way? Right,
Like you could have thrown it on the defense and
the offense on the hill.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
It's just like, I wonder, has there ever been a
PI thrown on a hail mary?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Like I don't know why this, I'm just saying, I know,
you know, I've got a story of that about that.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
I really don't tell us tell us, I swear to you,
I don't tell us.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
We we lost in when I was in Cleveland.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Literally when I was in Cleveland, we lost on the
final play of a game on a defensive pim Calvin Johnson,
and he gave Matt Stafford and the Lions an untimed down.
He threw a touchdown pass and they kicked the pat
and to win.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
I'm sorry, was this when Stafford was a rookie he
had the shoulder injury, like yes, and he did the
sneak and it was like, oh, his toughness got it,
gutted him through it.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh man, didn't they push a man on? That wasn't
like that a push in. It wasn't a sneak. He
threw a pass. After that, he came in, they put
Calpepper in. Carl Pepper came back out, and they put
him back in like after. They took some time, and
then he threw a touchdown pass and then they kicked
the pat and it was over.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Oh man, Well that sucks. I do have something that's
going to make you feel better, though.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I mean, the biggest buzz kill I've ever experienced next
to the private bush push, but only because like you
kind of looked at the bush push like, well, like
you kind of like those guys are gonna be tough
to stop when you've got the game down to a
hill Mary and you're up on the other side and
you're like, oh, I gotta call p I yes they are,
(15:05):
and there goes the game.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
So when Rogers beat Detroit with that hell Mary, you
must have loved it, like, how's it feel like?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
How's it feel like? Now you know what it's like.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't feel anything. I just
watched it. I was like, Wow, it's a really good
hell Mary throw.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's a hell Mary. What a catch I got?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I got something you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Want to feel with me. I can't run quick. See
what do we have here? Now? Do you want to Yeah?
Speaker 7 (15:39):
Gohad go ahead, don't push me. Revenge is like the
sweetest joy next to come on show be showing who
they are. You got a big he just know what
to think right now?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Hey Q, you had big headphones that you definitely had
big headphones. You had bass headphones. You didn't have the
little ones. Man. Your headphones covered your ears. Were you
used to Were you around when they had like CDs
you had? Did you have to have a CD binder? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, I used to have the one where like you
could like drop kick it, but it was like Patior.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Big as big as hell, like could carry like you
had like twenty pages of front and back. Yeah, yeah,
of course. Okay. I banged with you more and more,
dog like, I bet like I get to know some
things about you, like what you just didn't bang with
you a little bit bored every day, Jonas, go ahead, man, Friday,
(16:47):
come on, come on Friday. We're saying there Friday. Alright, alright,
(17:10):
you gotta go to the other one. You gotta do
it the whole way. Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
Yeah, Canday, it is a football Friday. Here on Two
Pros and a Cup of Joe on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six a m. Eastern three am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Here's one thing that we do know that's never going
to change. It's the success and the popularity.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Of Quinn's wins. It's back for a Friday morning, baby.
I'll look around college football with the one and only
Brady Quinn.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Well, the problem with this week is there's not really
that many Top twenty five matchups and so we've only
got a couple of games to go with.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
But it starts off with the big one, in my opinion.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
An elimination game in the Pac twelve on Fox at
three thirty pm Eastern Time twelve thirty pm Pacific.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
The one loss Oregon Ducks and bow Knicks they had
to Salt Lake, the take on the Utes.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Utah sitting number thirteen in the country at six and
one coming off their big beatdown of USC, and again,
like I said, this is an elimination game. Neither of
these teams can afford a loss if they want to
try to win the Pac twelve and make it to
the College Football Playoff. And a storyline we've seen really
all year with Utah is overcoming the fact that Cam Rising,
their starting quarterback, is not going to be back this season.
(18:52):
We heard officially last week from head coach Kyle Whittingham
that he's not going to be back, so it will
be Bryson Barnes who's been basically playing spot duty and
starting from time to time, along with the backup there
Nate Johnson. But really what stood out last week Jaquindon Jackson,
a running back for them, and SiO Divaki, a converted
safety to running back, both showed up big versus that
(19:13):
sc defense to get the win, and the ground game
is going to be really what allows Utah to hang
around in this one. That and a suffocating defense, the
best rush defense in the Pac twelve taken on an
Oregon team that can.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Run the football effectively.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
However, to me, the difference in this game is Organ's
ability to create big plays on the outside. Tony Franklin
Junior in particular, of the outstanding wide.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Receiver at Oregon.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
That's where this Utah offense has been or defense has
been different this year, giving up some of the big plays,
allowing bow Knicks in particular too to not only make
plays downfield but also with his legs in this one,
so two very evenly matched teams, this number at Utah
getting six and a half points at home to me
looked a little fishy, And I think it's a part
(20:00):
because we're underscoring just how good this Oregon team is.
So I'm gonna lay the points and the road favorite
in a tough environment.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
And I know it goes.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Against the trend here for Utah, but I think Oregon
takes care of business and tries to make its claim
for getting back to a PAC twelve championship game and
potentially the.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
College Football Playoff.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
And the only other game this week where we've got
two top twenty five teams squaring office in the ACC,
We've got Mike Elko's Duke head to Louisville and take
on Jeff Brohm and the Cardinals.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
And reality here.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Is this, There's two really good defensive teams, and stopping
to run Duke is as good as it gets in
the ACC, and Louisville's right there behind him. Jorge Jordan
is the outstanding running back at Louisville who to me
is going to be the difference in this game. He's
just too tough to stop. He's a big playmaking machine.
And Duke's quarterback Robert Leonard, we saw him last week,
tried to play as a big banged up wasn't overly effective.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Should be a little healthier.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
This time around, but there's just not much juice in
that passing game at Duke versus Louisville defense that's been
pretty good. The only concerned here is Jack Plumber, the
quarterback in Louisville. He's had a few games this year
when when he throws turnovers, they usually come in bunches
three seven times it's throwing for a couple interceptions.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
Jamari Thrash will be his main target.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I think Jeff Brohm and Louisville finds a way of
getting their playmakers the ball and different opportunities, and I
just don't think Duke's canna be able to hang with them.
So lay the four and a half points with Louisville
at home.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about.
Find that somewhere else. It's not a shot in hell.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Hey, by the way, how long before Mike Elco takes
some Michigan State job.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Maybe you're waiting to see how things kind of finish
out this season. I mean, this is obviously a team
right now that's still in the thick of it for
the ACC And I think furthermore, if you're looking at
just you know, with everything's happened in the State of Michigan,
maybe when I Horrboss even there or not at the
University of Michigan if that job doesn't necessarily become open.
(22:05):
So how do you mean which is the better job,
Michigan State or the University of Michigan.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
It's Michigan.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
You can trust their their pregame trivia questions on the
board more at Michigan than you can at Michigan State.
You know, wow, with someone there just saying, man, they
did it, you know, And then people want to complain
about somebody you know, looking at some signals, you know,
from somebody else's sideline. Come on, man, And then I think,
is there a chance that they're going to speed up
(22:32):
this investigation to the point where Michigan gets punished this year?
It feels like we're being really aggressive with the how
they're looking at this Michigan stuff. Like they basically served
up everything to the NCAAA, Like there's been an investigation
going on. Somebody got access to Michigan's documents somehow, some way,
(22:55):
and that's how they had all this evidence and then
just served it up to the NCAA last week.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
There's so many different things going on right now that
are fascinating, Like the FBI has been doing an investigation
under Mattueze, who's a former offensive coordinator for computer crimes,
and so I don't know if somehow that came across
some of the different things that are happening with the
signaling and how this all got leaked, because that's the
(23:20):
reality of this whole sign stealing scandal as teams have
known for it for a while. There's an in depth
discussion with TCU last year about how basically in this
semi final game versus Michigan they knew how elaborate Michigan
stealing sign stealing operation was, that they didn't do anything
they'd ever done before. It was all dummy signals, and
(23:41):
so I'm not really sure how effective it was. I
kind of pointed out earlier this week the one viral
clip over with Ohio State last year and CJ. Stroud
on offense versus Michigan, and everyone's making a big deal
about that sign stealing that played literally resulted in a
touchdown pass to a Mecca a Buca. So sometimes like
we make such a big deal about this, yet it
(24:02):
may have played to the detriment of Michigan in some ways,
at least in some of those instances. It's not like
they beat TCU. I know they beat Ohio State, but again,
you heard TCU. Kind I already talk about it, but
I do wonder how this all got out there. The
one thing that I think has been floated out there
that I've heard and makes a lot of senses. There
(24:24):
is a lot of reports about Harbaugh looking for a
contract extension, and he does not have a good relationship
with the athletic director a ward manual.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
That's not opinion, that's a fact.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Other people have discussed this, but those extension talks have
now been put on hold because of this investigation because
they don't know how high this goes up.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
And it leads to the thought of cause. If you
did provide.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
An extension, or if you were looking for a way
to get out from underneath the head coach that almost
tried to burn you last year of the NFL, and
you don't have a great relationship with and hasn't been
cooperative with the NCA in the past and their investigations,
this would be a way of doing it, of creating
cause at least to get out from underneath him. Harbaugh
(25:09):
and any money that's owed to him based on what's
being alleged right now.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
I just love how how this all comes out now
that oh, everybody knew about this for a while, you have,
but nobody said anything because they were probably doing something
along the lines as well too.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Like it just the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I just find suspect the fans are on harball side too,
by the way like they think and largely what I've
read and have seen that Harball should be the highest
paid coach in college football, at least one of them,
with the way he's been able to build the program.
So this clearly would have to be something that you
(25:49):
categorize as a way of putting that out there to
the fan base to possibly justify anything that you may
bring against HERTA if you're the university. I mean, I
really believe that that's that. Really, you can't justify not
paying that man more money. For one, you can't be
(26:12):
upset that he's looking to go to the pros if
he's not feeling appreciated by his alma mater. And is
it good enough to just say there isn't a good
relationship between the athletic director and the head coach that
is having success that by the way, is an alumni
of the school that just isn't that's not going to
boat well like that could actually cost that ad their job.
(26:35):
That could actually in the end that could cost the
president of the school their job, depending on how it
all plays out.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
So remember two things here the timeline COVID year Harbaught
takes a pay cut because lack of performance COVID, how
it impacted the school, everything else. Then they start winning
Big Ten championships and that's where you see Harball probably
frustrated with the fact that he had to take the
pay cut in the first place, but then also searches
(27:03):
for some other NFL head coaching jobs or at least
entertains it. Then, on top of that, non cooperative in
an investigation about recruiting violations over that COVID period. So
that's kind of how we got to this fracture relationship
between Ward Manual and Jim Harbaugh. But the question will
ultimately come down to this, how high does the Connors
(27:25):
Stallions sign stealing operation go up If it's all the
way up through to Jim Harbaugh and really the institution
of the University of Michigan they'll probably be somewhat of
a pretty punitive penalty.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
From the NCAA.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
I mean, the NCAA has penalized multiple universities for self
reporting things that didn't play any role whatsoever and an
advantage on the field, but more had to do with
student athlete eligibility, let alone, this creating what is deemed
to be at least an advantage, and some would think so,
it really is going to come down to how high
does this go up at the University of Michigan. And
(28:03):
if it goes up to Jim Harbaugh can be traced
up to Jim Harbaugh, that's when you could be looking
at again if they wanted to move on then being
able to do so with cause, which would negate any
future compensation that Harbaugh should be rewarded or is at
least guaranteed in his contract.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific,
two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you
right into the NBA Great Five.
Speaker 9 (28:36):
All happening in only one place this league Uncut, the
new NBA podcast with Me, Chris.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Haynes and me.
Speaker 9 (28:45):
Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound
on everything we're covering.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Hearing and Chason.
Speaker 8 (28:51):
Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes and Mark Stein.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
We've been tracking the Deshaun Watson storyline, have we I
don't know if anybody.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Has been caught at or has it been tracking us?
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Some would say that as well too, okay, And there's
been some speculation since he's going to miss another game
this week, PJ. Walker is going to be the quarterback that,
you know, maybe Deshaun Watson doesn't want to play, and
that's been sort of, you know, thrown out there.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Now.
Speaker 6 (29:30):
The person at the forefront of that narrative is one
LeVar Arrington.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh jeezus, pounding the table.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Pounding the table over this sounds snooze to me, but okay.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
But in all seriousness, there has been that conversation out there.
That conversation has taking place on this show because it's fair, it's.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Logical, Yes, a question does he want to play?
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Because the timeline doesn't make sense it doesn't have up. Well,
Deshaun Watson has heard all that. Like he is, he
has heard all of those narratives, and so he spoke
with the media yesterday to try and respond to the
claims that maybe he just doesn't want to play.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I wouldn't never want to play.
Speaker 10 (30:15):
I just I was just work myself for two years
to get back to playing. So why wouldn't I want
to play? This is what I've been doing since I
was six years old, So I wouldn't want to play.
I see, I see the same things. I see all
the narratives. This that the third I mean, all that
stuff is just trying to call controversy and commotion. You know,
I'm fine, I'm happy. I'm not happy with the injury,
(30:38):
but you know, I'm in a great space mentally, I'm
in a great space spiritually, physically, everything else is in
a great space except my shoulder.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
So we're working hard to get that back.
Speaker 10 (30:48):
But yeah, why wouldn't I want to play?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I don't.
Speaker 10 (30:51):
I don't do this for no other reason. So yeah,
I see that too. I see the whole contract situation
and all that stuff. Yeah, that's stuff is just for
people to talk and and just great narratives.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Yeah, so I don't think it's about creating narratives. I
think it's a fair question to ask when looking at
the storylines that are you know, coming from from Cleveland,
from what's being written about, you know, how how his
injuries have been handled. You know, you're going to say
(31:25):
everything is great, Oh, except for my shoulder, like I
mean great health, I mean except for my shoulder. Like listen,
I'm not one to attack or even try to speculate
in terms of where a guy's heart is and where
where his you know, kind of his priorities lie as
(31:47):
as it you know, pertains to playing the game or
anything like that. And I'm certainly not one to base
it off of their pocket. But if we're being honest
and we're being realistic, and this is one of the
main points that has been made when we talk about
and discuss the the Shaun Watson topic, is that if
(32:10):
he did not have a guaranteed contract, what would he
be handling his injury situation the same exact way. And
so to me, when when you have those type of discussions,
there's the possibilities that looking at how his demeanor is,
(32:34):
which a lot of quarterbacks have detached looking demeanors. I mean,
Eli Manning's demeanor was one of the most detached you
could ever see. You know, you think about Jay Cutler,
he had a weird ass type of demeanor that just
didn't seem like it was you know, conduce it to
having great relationships with your teammates, whatever it may be.
(32:56):
But you play in a sport where people are going
to speculate about something, especially when you make the type
of money. You know, you set a record, you made history,
and you're right, you have work to get back out
there on the field for the last two years and
you're not on it. So what are we supposed to
do just sit back and say, oh, you know, when
(33:19):
when he gets better, he'll be back on the field,
moving on. I just don't think it's that simple. It's
not that easy, especially when you have a coaching staff
that you know, kind of it seems like they're still
kind of trying to shield him from any type of
criticisms that may come his way. But at the same time,
almost lightweight are like, you know, he's cleared to play,
(33:41):
but we're just going to try to protect him and
make sure he's one hundred percent where he needs to
be when we put him back out there.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
The distraction is just created by the media. What are
they're created?
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But they're created by the Browns him and is our
team and how they've handled the discussing the injury. And
then honestly, I think it's the wild speculation of the
doctors who get involved in his stuff, who aren't actually
looking at him, because they're the ones who want to
(34:15):
put out these timelines that gives everyone else on the
outside who doesn't have who's not an MD or a
PhD or anything else, an idea of when he should
come back. And yet they've never talked to him or
diagnosed him with the specific injury. They're just reading what
everyone else is reading. The only difference is they've got
that title behind there. So if you really better to
(34:35):
be real about how the timeline for his return and
when he was going to come back, and the confusion
as to the severity of the injury or if he's
heard or injured and all that, I mean it comes
down to the Browns and how they initially said, yeah, he's.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Cleared to play. Okay, Well, if he's clear to play,
then why isn't he playing?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
And you really didn't hear anything from Deshaun Watson or
his camp, at least not.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
The specifics to what he was dealing with.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
So if you want, like, you can blame whatever else
you want.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
And that's pretty typical of a lot of people in
today's society. They point everywhere else and they want to
blame everything else. But the truth of the matter is,
like everyone's been kind of left in the dark this
whole situation and trying to put two and two together.
And as I've stated before, like when you see other
guys who are and by the way, I called into
a local Cleveland radio station yesterday and they were really
(35:34):
trying to, you know, defend everything. Well, well, he wants
to play, he wou say, Okay, Well, the reality is
if that's the case, then he's more vocal about it
now than he was a month ago.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
And they're like, well, the shoulder injury for a quarterback
is different than a calf injury to quarterback.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
It's like, well, yeah, of course they're different injuries, but
one's going to impact everything you do when you have
a lower body extremity injury. Okay, it affects handoffs, getting
out from under center, all of that. Joe Burrow's dealt
with that the entire season still played. You can look
(36:10):
at other players who dealt with injuries like throwing. Of course,
that's your money maker, that's what matters the most, and
so if you don't want to be out there, you
can't put one hundred percent, that's fine, that's his decision
to make. But the truth is is like, if you
don't want people to talk about it, then address it
and be on the same page as the team. Because
it didn't feel like the Browns and Deshaun Watson and
(36:33):
his camp were on the same team. It felt like
there were two separate camps and how things were being handled,
and so if there's confusion in it, you could again
point to everyone else. But the truth of the matter
is that I don't think the Browns and Deshaun Watson's
camp had had a really good strategy for how they're
going to communicate this to everyone else out there that
was wondering, like why he's not back, if they're going
(36:55):
to lead to a report that says he was medically
cleared or is medically clear.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
The messaging was awful from get go, like if he
had been put on, if he had been put on IR,
so he's gonna miss four weeks.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Which, by the way, they just should have done in
the first list. It would have solved all.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
Of this because they've said he's done no further damage.
But the injury he has is a four to six
week injury. Okay, So why didn't you put him on
IR back then?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Like that?
Speaker 6 (37:17):
Like that's why the timeline None of this makes any sense.
Had they put him on IR, nobody's asking questions. Had
his coach not said he was medically cleared but decided
not to play, nobody would have asked these questions. Had
he not then missed another game and then had a
bye week and then left a game been checked for
a concussion, they look at his shoulder via MRI and determine, yeah,
(37:40):
he was clear to return in that game and there's
no further damage. Nobody's asking these questions. It's process of elimination.
People are trying to find out, like us, Okay, so
why isn't he playing?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And it is also the team also addressed the fact
that it was in the concussion symptoms that they were
discussing as the reason why or why not he shouldn't
return to that game and he was cool you didn't
hear them. You did not hear them bring up the shoulder.
It was Deshaun Watson that brought up the shoulders after
(38:12):
that conversation of him leaving the game that he suffered
the concussion symptoms but cleared concussion protocol.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
And then they had an MRI and it was determined
no further damage was suffered in the game that he
returned from, just a little bit of swelling. It's like,
these are all fair questions, and it is interesting how
they brought up the calf issue in Cleveland because they're
probably hearing from people in the state that are going well.
Joe Burrow kept playing, he's got a calf issue. I mean,
Derek Carr suffered the sprained ac joint, never missed a
(38:42):
game like he was, so like, none of it.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It doesn't j Pickett's it came back from injury to
play ball to yes, I forget what he suffered the
weak prior, but I mean there's there's other and again,
and everyone's injury is different, everyone's tolerance to it, it's different,
and how they want to impact the play. But that's
that's what's been confusing, I think for Browns fans and
then that's the other thing that gets thrown under the
radar is everyone wants to talk about, like I mean,
(39:07):
this impacts the Browns the most, and if you think
about the Browns fan base, they signed on to Deshaun
Watson when they made this this signing, which was the
first ever in NFL history for a big money deal
like this and coming off of not playing football for
reasons that we're all very well aware of. But they
(39:28):
had to sign on to that. And now since he's
gotten there last year, obviously he had to serve his
time away until he could come back.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
It didn't look great when he got back.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
This year hasn't looked great, and so they've had to
sign on to all of this and deal with all
of this, and yet like they're kind of just sitting
back at the wayside being like, man, we just want
to win football games, you know, we just don't want
any of this drama, don't.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
We just want to win football games. It's all we
care about.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
And by the way, guaranteed contract. Jonas Rady a serious
ass legal situation that you had to overcome, as you mentioned,
and not playing consistently because here.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
I had soon on social media some mom in Texas
was like, it's classless what you said. I hope the
network's looking at I'm like, you think what I said jokingly.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
On X was classless. I was like, do you know
what was settled? What was a legend? Do you know
as a woman, as a mom, what was a legend?
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Like, Okay, let's just let's just check the facts there,
Like it is so funny to me, man, people in
this world and their opinions and how they'll literally be
like that comment. I'm like, oh, okay, Well, I also
didn't go to sixty plus massage therapists in my time,
and God knows only what took place between two people
(40:54):
or a few people in.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
That room and what happened and with the people.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
You can't you can't just brush that under the rug
and just say, well, that has nothing to do with
the conversation.
Speaker 6 (41:04):
By the way, you know, my favorite part of the
clip from Deshaun Watson is when he said, are you serious?
I worked my ass off the past two years to return.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
What do you mean? What'd you do?
Speaker 6 (41:13):
Not walk into the place and had the neon lights
out in front of it?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Like, what was how hard did you work to come back?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
You didn't.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
You didn't get in a car wreck and nearly die,
You got popped because a hundred different massage therapists were
claiming that you were being a weirdo, Like what are
we talking about here?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Then, but again you have to you have to make
it a point to say that's what makes him such
a polarizing figure. A guaranteed contract after such a turbulent
moment in time, which by the way, has it's unprecedented
what took place, Like, we've never heard of anything like that.
(41:51):
I mean, you've heard of guys going on the street
before Super Bowls and soliciting, you know, and stuff like that.
Like you, I mean, you've you've heard of some really
really degenerate moments that have taken place with players, but
we've never heard anything quite like this.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, that was a good old days. We're spart Robin.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You know. It's right, you go missing in Tijuana before
the day before the biggest game in the world is
being played. But we've never heard something quite like this,
and then for it for it to be followed up
with a ginormous, fully guaranteed contract, it's just going to
be a conversation. So you can't get sensitive and you
(42:33):
can't sit there and say, you know, try to buck
back at the media or whatever, like it's just trying
to create confusion or it's trying to create this false narrative. No,
that is the narrative, because when you get that type
of money guarantee to you, there's always going to be
intense scrutiny surrounding what you do. Deshaun Watson was playing
and he was completing games, the conversations would be based
(42:57):
off of a lot of factors going into what his
performance looks like in those games. You're going to scrutinize
and you're going to criticize, and you're and some people
will lad, Okay, he's overcome this, you know, look at
the way he's playing. Like the Browns are. It's paying
dividends to them believing in Deshaun Watson. Moving forward, whatever
(43:18):
the storyline is going to be, there's still going to
be an intense amount of scrutiny, an intense amount of
attention that's paid to everything that Deshaun Watson does because
it's just unheard of what we saw and what we
experience hearing his what saga play out through the media.
(43:41):
That's it, Like you can't get upset over that. I'm sorry.
You can't sit there and say somebody's trying to cause
confusion for the Browns. You know what confusion is given
a guy who's fighting those type of lawsuits, a fully
guaranteed contract that's the most guaranteed and the first time
in the history of of the game, that's what it is.
(44:02):
So I mean, just get over it. That's off to me.
Just really just get over it and be able to
deal with whatever it is that anybody's going to say,
because to be so nonchalant about it, it's like we're
always people are always going to kind of look at
it and reference at least if you paid attention. I
reference back to how he was responding when all of
(44:23):
the sound bites were coming out from when he was
doing his interviews, and not interviews for football, but his interviews.
In terms of him talking being disposed on what took place,
it was just very detached. It was very matter as
a matter of fact and kind of dismissive. And that's
kind of how he handles his conversations. That's not on
(44:46):
me or anybody else who may talk about him. That's
on him and the people that are protect you know,
speaking on his path.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
It's just wild when you think, what under industry or
where else in the world would someone get a contract
like that given the allegations that were against them, Like,
would you really think back to that, Like where else
in society does that ever happen?
Speaker 5 (45:09):
Probably you think thirty different allegations.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
And you get two hundred and thirty million guaranteed to
you for your performance.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I would actually argue opposite. I think people who got two.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Hundred and thirty million, who have the sort of allegations
lose everything.
Speaker 6 (45:25):
Yeah, it's just what a what a weird situation. But
everybody else's fault so.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
Well, that's the thing is like, oh, I guess he's
the victim or I guess, like you know, we want
to blame other things.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
It's like, no, man, we didn't put ourselves in that situation.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
It's a nice attempt to flip it. That's that's exactly
you usually your spot on with what you just said
that it's an attempt to flip it on him into
a sympathetic figure.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
It's just David Mulugeta's the truth.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
That's what it is. That could have had some music
to it. Oh my, I'm not asking for music, Sam,
I'm just saying, oh my gosh, that's one of those moments.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Come with me.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Hell, Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR
to listen live.
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