February 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Brian Noe & Jason Fitz are in for the guys and talk about the Bengals attempting to sign all of their major free agents to long-term deals, a theory as to why All-Star Games have lost their magic, Caitlin Clark not getting paid her true worth, and more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Arings rating Win and Jonas Knox on
Fox four Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
All right fits. So the Bengals, they're trying to keep
the band together. They're going to attempt to sign three
of their stars to long term deals this offseason. They're
trying to sign wide receivers Jamar Chase and T Higgins
and also their defensive end Trey Hendrickson, and it's it's
gonna be challenging. Okay, they might have to franchise tag
(00:35):
T Higgins. Jamar Chase. You remember, right, he's a triple
Crown guy. Now he just led the league in catches,
receiving yards, and receiving touchdowns. So signing that guy, you're
talking around forty million dollars per year. And they're trying
to get Hendrickson and they're trying to get T Higgins.
That's a lot of cash, man. So I guess the
(00:56):
first thing is do you think it makes sense to
devote that much money to two wide receivers, because I don't.
You've got Joe Burrow, who's a special quarterback, and you're
gonna have to skimp in areas with that roster, and
so to sign Jamar Chase off a triple crown year
and t Higgins to long term deals plural I just
(01:20):
don't think that's a smart approach. Maybe franchising tea for
a year, maybe that would work, but long term deals
for all three I just don't see how that's a
viable way to go forward.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I think the hardest part about the long term deals
is that you missed the window to do that effectively.
Because the argument to this is always, well, look at
what the Eagles are doing. And one of the keys
to how Howie Roseman has constructed his roster is A,
they're pushing the can down the street a little bit
on some of the salary cap numbers avoidable years at
the end of contracts. But b he gets ahead of it.
(01:54):
He's run his entire organization for years under the press
on the premise of either sign you early and get
ahead of whatever market value is than to sign you late. Well,
the Bengals have missed all of those windows for each
of the players you just mentioned, like they're taking a
cowboys approach of we're gonna let this thing go as
long as it takes. Well. When you take that approach,
it costs you more money. So I think anytime somebody
(02:17):
wants to use the comp of well the Eagles have
managed to sign all these guys, you have to acknowledge
the fact that part of that method is getting ahead
of it. And you already missed that window for the Bengals.
So now you've got a team that frankly has money
to spend, but they have to look in the mirror
because you know, the way that they have wasted the
prime years at this point of Joe Burrow is malpractice
(02:39):
for an NFL's team. You know, I just you had
this great offense and you couldn't get everybody on the
field healthy the way you wanted and took forever and
then even after your quarterback started to just absolutely blow
up and had to look at MVP type season this year,
what did that actually result on the field with nothing?
We have to go back to this part of what
(03:00):
we just saw, Like the method, the blueprint of beating
the Kansas City Chiefs is out there. The blueprint we've
seen in two different Super bowls now is dominate on
the defensive line in a way that their offensive line
can't handle it. Like that is easier said than done.
But we've now seen two Super Bowls where the Chiefs
lost because they were absolutely destroyed on the line of scrimmage.
(03:20):
So what do the Bengals do when they're sitting here
with the quarterback that is capable of beating Mahomes we've
seen it. Well, they're going to invest more in the
wide receivers and still not have a defense like I do.
That doesn't make any sense to me. That's you're looking
at the math that we've already seen over here and
you say, well, we're not gonna do that. We're just
gonna keep stacking the offensive side of the ball. I
just I don't think you can win in the AFC.
(03:41):
I don't think that you can beat the Chiefs unless
you can put together a defensive line that can absolutely dominate.
The Bengals don't have that. Their money, their focused, their
draft picks, their allocation should all be going to that
right now.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, man, their defense was rough last season. That's the
reason why Joe Burrow put up legit MVP type number
and they went nine to eight, right, and their defensive coordinator,
lou Anarumo got fired. Like he's with the Colts now,
he's had a new address. So, yeah, you need more talent.
It's not like Lou forgot how to coach defense. They
(04:13):
just don't have a lot of talent on that side
of the ball. And it showed you can't have in
this day and age right the twenty twenty four season.
When your quarterback puts up numbers like Joe Burrow, you
should not be a nine to eight football team. You know,
he threw for almost five thousand yards, fits he threw
forty three touchdown passes in nine interceptions. His passer rating
(04:36):
is third in the entire NFL over one oh eight.
That's fantastic. They're barely above five hundred. You know, like
you can't have a defense that is that week and
signing t Higgins to a long term deal or even
franchising him that does nothing to fix the lack of
(04:57):
talent defensively. So I just know Joe Burrow is a
special quarterback and I think the Mahomes approach makes more
sense here where they didn't sign Tyreek Hill to this
enormous deal. They went in a different direction. They went young,
and really they got burned because Rashie Rice got hurt
last year. If you have Rashie Rice and Xavier Worthy.
(05:18):
That's a pretty good one two combo right there, and
that's what they'll have this upcoming season. But they didn't
break the bank for a wide receiver. What the Bengals
are trying to do, they're not only trying to sign
like the equivalent of Tyreek Hill with the Chiefs, they're
trying to sign another stud like alongside Tyreek Hill. The
(05:39):
Chiefs didn't even sign Tyreek so you don't have to
do everything the Chiefs way. But I think that approach
makes a lot of sense. If you've got a special quarterback,
you don't need to get him all the wide receiver
bells and whistles in the world. He's gonna put up
numbers regardless. You can use that money to address weaker
spots where you'd don't have a Joe Burrow type player
(06:02):
to compensate for that. So I just think moving on
from t Higgins makes a lot more sense to address
other areas of need.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Once you start paying people too, it becomes even more
important that you nail it in the draft. And that's
part of what we I mean just the fact that, look,
there are a million reasons why Jalen Carter was available
when the Eagles went to the draft podium. I want
to stress that I've covered the draft since twenty sixteen.
I used to cover it for ESPN, now for Yahoo.
(06:32):
And the only time I've ever had to pre write
a statement and have it ready for a draft pick
when he was selected was Jalen Carter because we understood
that we had to get the verbiage very right on
what he'd been accused of and what had happened at
that point. So I say that only to say that
there was context around why he was available, so you
know that happened. But then also you have last year's draft,
where widely Quinya Mitchell was widely respected as the top
(06:56):
corner available in the draft. Just he was there, he
felt Cooper Degen is somebody that most people had a
much higher grade on, and just the way the draft
board fell, he was there. So the ability to use
the draft, I tell people all the time, if your
favorite team stinks, you got to look in the mirror
and ask yourself, how many new starters do we need?
Because a Hall of Fame offseason, oh my god, we
(07:20):
have the executive of the year running our organization offseason
might net you a total of four or five, Wow,
new starters. Like that's a Hall of Fame level, and
that's what the Eagles got last year. The Eagles got
a Hall of Fame level offseason. It doesn't happen very often.
So if you're the Bengals, you got to look around
and say, Okay, if we're gonna start paying guys, do
we have the front office here that is gonna nail
(07:42):
every single draft pick. Because once you start paying guys, boy,
you better get the first, second, third rounders. They better
all turn out to be starters. So now you're paying
a wide receiver, which is when's above replacement, one of
the positions you should be able to overtime, churn and burn,
should be able to find wide receivers in the draft
more and more. So you're paying one of those wide receivers.
(08:03):
You're trusting your front office to then nail the draft
and get the rest of what they need constantly, Like
these feel like variables. I wouldn't trust the Bengals to nail.
So even in the sense of even if you want
to find the way to stack the bricks and say okay, no,
the signing team makes sense. It only makes sense if
all of these other things are also going right for you,
and they're not going to go right for the Bengals,
(08:24):
so that it just feels failed from the outset.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, you know, I wonder if we're at some point
fits gonna see the way the league thinks of running backs,
you know, like in general, if they're going to start
thinking of wide receivers similarly, because if you look at
running backs, Okay, the top top guys, they make decent money, right,
(08:49):
you know, like relative to their position. They're not breaking
the bank anymore for running backs. But you saw the
impact of Saquon Barkley, Derek Henry. Those are special guys.
The way they treat other runnings is they use them
on their rookie deals and then if they're not like
Christian McCaffrey when healthy, you know, upper upper echelon, they'd
(09:09):
go young and they draft the next guy, you know,
And I wonder if that's gonna be similar with wide receivers.
The top top end guys Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, those
special wide receivers, they're gonna make major money. I'm not
saying they shouldn't, but the next tier down instead of
breaking the bank for those guys, are they gonna look
(09:31):
and say, man, wide receiver is it's typically a rich
draft position, you know, and you can go young and
you can find someone who's good, maybe not as good,
but sufficient, and we just go young with that number
two receiver, that number three receiver. Why are the Bengals
(09:51):
trying to sign t Higgins to a long term extension
when they have Jamar Chase? I just don't think that
makes sense. If you had draft after draft after draft
where there's just a lack of depth at wide receiver talent, Okay,
that makes sense. That's not the case you see time
after time rich wide receiver drafts. I just think it
(10:13):
makes more sense to go young when you're talking about
your number two or number three receiver. If you've got
a high end number one, if you got a bunch
of number two's, okay, maybe that makes more sense. You've
got a legit, bona fide number one stud in Jamar Chase,
I just don't see the sense and backing up the
brinks truck Fort Higgins also, I just think that's a
(10:34):
bad approach by the Bengals.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
So take a look at according to overthecap dot com,
right now, looking at twenty twenty five wide receiver salaries
and look at the cap numbers. The number one cap
number next year at the wide receiver position currently is
DeVante Adams, who he most people expect are gonna be
cut by the Jets, right because of that large cap number.
The number three cap number belongs to DK Metcalf, who
(10:57):
is on the trading block according to multiple reports at
this point at thirty two million dollars, Cooper cup is
on the trading block. You know is twenty twenty nine
point seven million dollars, right like Calvin Ridley for the Titans,
twenty eight million dollars. Go up and down the list.
These are all guys that you know have situations with
their contracts at this point speaks to what you're talking
(11:19):
about the next level. The AJ Browns and Nico Collins,
Courtland Sutton's like those guys are all of the seventeen eighteen,
nineteen twenty million dollar range. You are absolutely right, like
there's going to become a have and have not at
the wide receiver position. If you've got a CD, and
you know, CD's gonna be worth thirty five million, t
if you've got Justin Jefferson, he's gonna be worth whatever
(11:39):
he wants like Justin Jefferson. Right now, according to the
over the cap is only fifteen million. That number is
about to explode. The thing is Justin Jefferson is at
fifteen million, that's going to explode. Jacoby Myers is right
behind him at fourteen point nine million, that that number
ain't about to explode. Like, You're going to discover quickly
that if you've got one of the top five six
(12:00):
guys in the league, you're gonna pay that guy, there's
no doubt about it. But if you've got the twelfth
best wide receiver, now we're talking about wins above replacement,
If you've got the fifteenth best wide receiver, is it
worth getting into the thirty million dollar range for a
guy like that or is it worth continually going back
into the draft. And I think we're gonna find over
time that that answers go back into the draft more
(12:20):
often than not.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, you know, it's funny, man, I'm just looking at
the twenty three draft. You know, I just went instead
of like all rookies this past season, I just went
back another draft just to see how much depth there
is at wide receiver and fits.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Man, we're talking depth here.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
You know, the top wide receiver shows in the twenty
three draft was the twentieth overall pick, Jackson Smith and Jigba.
He's been fantastic, had a great year for the Seahawks
this past season, right same first round. Zay Flowers with
the Ravens, Jordan Addison with the Vikings. These guys have
all contributed. Jayden Reid with the Packers has been good.
(12:58):
Rashie Rice with the Chiefs before he got hurts fantastic,
Tank Dell with the Texans before he had a leg injury.
He contributed. Josh Downs with the Colts has been pretty decent.
You keep going down. There have been other guys that
have contributed. Fifth round, Puka Nakuwa, it's a fifth rounder,
you know, like you're finding depth the Bengals. Coincidentally enough,
(13:18):
that same draft, sixth round andre Yosi Vosh Who's contributed
as like your number three receivers. So when you can
find that much depth, I just I don't know why
you're not trying to move on from T Higgins. I
don't get it, but hey, they're trying to keep the
band together at least for now. Do you think it
(13:39):
makes sense the even franchise tea. You think one more year?
What do you think about that fits? Because that's even
a high dollar amount.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
No, I think the only reason I woul franchise in
is if I was trying to do a sign and trade.
And look, I think T is a number one somewhere.
I do like, this isn't about T. This is just
about man. If you're the Bengals, you got to look
in the mirror and ask yourself do you have anywhere
near enough pieces on the defensive side of the ball,
and so otherwise you're just constantly going to be running
(14:07):
back this nine wins sort of. You know this conversation
we have every year, Oh, nobody wants to take on
that team in the playoffs. Okay, fine, if that's if
you take a lot of pride in being the team
that nobody wants to faces in the playoffs, but you're
desperately trying to scratch and claw your way back into
this thing every year. To me, this is a wild
(14:28):
influx of new talent on the defensive side of the
ball is the only priority. And then I got Joe Burrow,
Like the other thing that I'm always going to worry
about if I'm the Bengals, is I'm just going to
continue to hammer the offensive line. Like I don't want
to oversimplify here, but we just saw in a Super
Bowl that these things are won in the trenches, right,
And so we saw throughout the course of the majority
(14:49):
of the year, like the two best teams in the
NFC clearly most of the year were the Detroit Lions
and the Philadelphia Eagles. What do they have in common
of both of those teams, especially when healthy, we're dominant
on both lines. Like I just I know none of
us love covering the draft when you have to talk
about a bunch of fat guys getting drafted that they
can't really analyze. Like if your favorite team draft's a
(15:10):
fact guy you've never heard of, then put your feet
up and have a beer, because, like you probably just
had a really good draft. And I just I understand
why you want the sexiness to tea but man, there's
just a lot of other needs for the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
It really is true, man. And when we just saw
the Super Bowl and the Eagles dominate on both their lines, right,
the O line, the D line, they both did work.
And yeah, I know it's kind of like the quote
unquote skill position players the fantasy football players. Yeah, those
(15:41):
are fun and they can absolutely contribute. But man, if
you have work to do in the trenches and you're
bypassing that for the sexy players, that can absolutely come
back to bite you. It's happened time and time again.
I guess the thing is, to me, this is less
of a Bengals thing and more of ask yourself what
you would want if this was the same situation with
(16:03):
your favorite team. You know, if it's you'r a Raiders guy.
I've loved the Dolphins for whatever reason since I can remember,
you know, if they had exactly what the Bengals had,
same exact situation. They have Burrow, they have Jamar Chase,
they have T Higgins, They're off a nine to eight season,
their defense sucked, right, Like, would I want them to
(16:24):
re sign both wide receivers to long term deals? No,
I wouldn't. I would want them to sign Jamar Chase
and move on from T. Higgins, And like you said,
maybe franchise them, try to trade them, don't let them
leave for nothing, that sort of thing. But no, I
think that you got to address other areas of need
and we'll see what the Bengals do. But at least
(16:46):
that's not their thinking right now, that's not their approach,
But we'll see what happens when they're trying to hammer
out these deals.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
All right, fit, So I like this theory from you,
or this this idea. You've got an idea why the
the All Star games, not just in the NBA, but
all star games across other sports landscapes are not exactly
working out?
Speaker 4 (17:24):
What's this theory of yours?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, the funny thing is you have to look back
to where all Star games worked and asked yourself why
as part of this, and you know, we now live
in a world where you can get every single ounce
of coverage of every single sport every single day. So
if you're an NBA fan, you can get an NBA
League Pass and you can watch the league every single night.
(17:50):
Twenty years ago, that just wasn't possible. I wasn't readily there.
So all Star breaks, all Star games had such incredible
meaning because you know, if you go back to the
nineties where everybody keeps talking about Jordan played every game
and he played in the All Star Games, Well, there
was so much more emphasis to that All Star game
because you never saw the stars taking each other on TV.
Packages didn't even allow for that. Like, think about the
(18:12):
way college sports have changed and how it used to
be that you could be Nebraska and you were gonna
be a huge program because you were on TV every week.
Now every single game for every single team is on
TV every single week. Like at some point, the normalization
of how we're able to consume every highlight, every star player,
every dunk, every single moment of every sport means that
(18:34):
by the very nature of that, like all Star games
are gonna feel useless. You can watch these stars every
night in the league. You can see great dunks every
night in the league. So you've got this sort of
desensitized thing on top of the fact that we've seen
it all before, on top of the fact that we
see these stars every night, on top of the fact
that it's just blasted in your face every day. It
(18:54):
just it feels like all Star games are a failed
process now for every single sport because there is so
much coverage of every one of those sports throughout the
course of the regular season. Yeah, I hear, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I think that has something to do with it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think, especially in baseball, think about that where there
was like a Game of the week and that was it,
and certainly was There wasn't any interleague play, and so
when you're seeing the best stars of the AL finally
play against the best stars of the NL, it was
just a different dynamics. So yeah, I think that has
something to do with it. I think it's like layers, right.
(19:27):
I think one of the major layers too, is just
the effort level, especially in the NBA. If you go
out there and you try, and you compete and it's
a legitimate product and a legitimate game, I think the
ratings are going to be much better. But when you
last year they combined for almost four hundred points in
a game, it's just like, bro, this is a total
waste of time. So I think that layer contributes as well.
(19:51):
But the layer that you're mentioning absolutely contributes, no doubt
about that.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I will also say to your point of f again,
I'll go back to how we cover the NBA. You
can have the single greatest season in history, and all
of a sudden, everybody rolls their eyes if it doesn't
result in a championship. So if we are suddenly in
the spot where the only thing that matters for your
(20:15):
entire legacy playing in the NBA is how many championships
you win, because one isn't even enough, then how do
you put emphasis on an All Star game that people
won't even remember you played in? Like, why would anybody
give effort? Because no matter what that effort is, we're
just gonna sit there and squash whatever their entire career
is if it doesn't result in a championship.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's true, But when you're making so much money, the
audacity to be like, if you can incentivize us by
maybe giving us more money, it's like, bro, at some point,
have some fry to just go out there and compete
a little bit, is what I say.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Caitlin and Clark's agent made a statement that caught my
attention where she says, this is Aaron Kin.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So Aaron Kin, she represents Caitlin Clark and some other
WNBA stars. It's part of Excel Sports Management. But Aaron
Kain says it's impossible to pay Caitlin Clark her true
WNBA value. And I thought that was an interesting statement
because I think it goes beyond the WNBA. We'll stick
(21:33):
with the WNBA for a second, but how crazy is
this Where Caitlin is set to make for the twenty
twenty five season, seventy eight thousand dollars, that's her WNBA
paycheck fits how can that be? But it's an interesting
statement to say it's impossible to pay her her true
(21:56):
WNBA value, And you start thinking about My mind went
immediately to the NBA, and we'll bring it back to
the WNBA. But think on a greater scale where you
see some of these contracts. We just saw the Dallas
Mavericks in part we believe trade Luka Doncic because they
didn't want to pay the supermax three hundred and forty
(22:18):
five million dollar price tag, right, And you start thinking, man,
three hundred and forty five million dollars, that's huge money.
But start thinking about the value to the league. You
could argue Luka, Doncic or other players Lebron, James, Steph
Curry as much money as Steph Curry makes, He's made
(22:40):
more money for the NBA than he makes himself, you
know what I mean. Like, so when you start thinking
about that, especially with these NBA contracts, huge money, and you're.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Like, wow, man, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
If you stop and think, and I never did before,
what's their true value for the NBA? With would they?
Can you pay Lebron like annually what he's worth for
the NBA?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
No way.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So I thought that was an interesting way to say
it by the agent, but maybe not the greatest statement
because you can't do that in the NBA on a
far greater scale. There Caitlin's making peanuts at seventy eight
thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
That's crazy. Something's got to change as far as that goes.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, And this is where so many people will come
in and try and downplay the value of some of
these athletes, and I'll just remind everybody. So I looked
it up here and it looks like according to the
most recent article I can find here that you know,
we're talking about, you know, roughly one point five million
people watching on an average regular season basketball game. So
(23:45):
here's what we know. That number is higher for certain brands.
The Lakers attract ratings. The reason that people talk about
the Lakers so much is because people watch it. So
it's not an accident. And you know, I'll go back
to First Take and shows like that on ESPN. They
study the metrics every day. So when you ask yourself
why these TV shows only talk about the Lakers and
(24:06):
the Cowboys, it's because they get daily numbers every day
that shows it when they talk about the Lakers and
the Cowboys, more people watch. That might be unbelievable to
you listening, but it's real. So when you think about
what the value is of certain athletes, I mean you
can do this in the NFL too, Like what's the
true value of Patrick Mahomes? Just is it really forty
(24:27):
fifty million dollars d Like if there was no salary
cap and you were just saying, okay, every time the
Chiefs are on TV, you know, twenty thirty forty fifty
million people watch depending on what the day is, right,
So right, what's the value of that? In modern sports?
Like the reason that sports, the reason the NBA, for example,
just did a historic new TV deal. Is because advertisers
(24:49):
understand that the only thing left that you can't simply
record and skip through the commercials on are live sports.
You watch them live, You're captivated by it live. You
got to see the scoring as it happens. As a result,
you have a captive audience, which is why advertisers are
paying more than ever to get advertisements on it. And
so we see here all day long talk about well,
(25:11):
ratings are down, ratings are down, ratings down, it doesn't matter.
Money's up because advertisers understand that this is a captive audience.
So if advertisers understand that, what's the real value of Lebron?
I can't even imagine what's the real value of Golden State.
We talked about them earlier, Like if we just looked
at value, Oklahoma City has very little because the common
(25:34):
fan that doesn't give a damn is rarely tuning in
to Oklahoma City right now. But the Lakers and Lebron
have a ton because common fans will just sit there
and watch anything that the Lakers and Lebron are on.
So yeah, I mean it's alarming when you think about
the face of different sports. I don't think that you
could put a price tag on what most of them.
If there was no salary cap and no tax bracket caps,
(25:57):
they could get whatever they want. Like, if it were
true free market, it'd be insane to see how much
Lebron would.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Make, no doubt. Right, Yeah, you start thinking about that.
Think about the NFL media rights deals, right where all
these different television companies and you put all that money
in in one category, it's billions and billions of dollars.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
So you start thinking.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
About the top stars, the high end, the mahomes and right, like,
what they mean for the league financially is way more
than what they get paid. And that's why I think
it's a bad argument from Caitlin's agents that that shouldn't
be the argument. She's right that Caitlin will never make
(26:39):
her true WNBA value, But how does that help her
get more money?
Speaker 4 (26:45):
You know what I'm saying, Like, that's a good.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Point, but how does that help your client get more
cash that she deserves. That's why it's like, hey, good point,
but that doesn't help your client. That's why it's a
bad argument. You know, Like the WNBA they announced last year,
it's eleven year media rights deal and that's valued at
about two point two billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
So it's about two hundred million dollars per year.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Right, right, this is huge. It was you know, sixty
million dollars per year. Now it's two hundred million dollars
per year. To me, the better argument from that agent is, yo,
we just have a new media rights deal. It's worth
one hundred and forty million dollars more per year than
it was. How is Caitlin Clark only making seventy eight
(27:31):
thousand dollars per year? Still with that in mind, right,
Like that to me helps your client. It puts her
in a better position to make more money instead of
she's never gonna get her true value. It's like, yeah, right,
but how does that help exactly? And I don't think
it does at all.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, and it it gets it gets complicated because certainly
Caitlyn has a million other ways to make money. But
I remember when Lebron was first drafted. I saw an
interview his rookie year and somebody asked him at the time,
I don't remember who was who he really worked for.
And the reason that the question was asked that way
is because Lebron's original initial contract with the Nike was
(28:11):
more than the Cleveland Cavaliers were paying him because of
the salary cap structure, and so the question was who
do you really work for? The Calves are Nike? And
I remember Lebron laughing and saying both. Like that is
such a real part of what happens for athletes a
different portions of their career. You know, It's just it's
funny trying to figure out what the appropriate value because like, look,
(28:32):
the Tennessee Titans have the first overall pick in the
NFL draft. Nobody gives it damn because it's the Tennessee Titans,
Like if it was the Dallas Cowboys. We talk about
it every day. And cam Ward, you mentioned earlier, says,
you know you don't draft me, You'll you'll remember, well,
cam Ward was the first overall pick to you know,
a franchise that had a little bit more cachet with
(28:53):
with casual fans, it would be absolutely huge. But he won't.
He's going to be drafted to the Titans, which will
throttle back his earning potential for a substantial portion of
his career. Like that's real for him, even as an
NFL quarterback. Right, It's just he's not going to have
the same level of give a damn from casual fans
everywhere because he happens to be drafted by the Titans. So, like,
(29:14):
it's interesting, every sport has certain teams, certain brands, certain
players that certainly surpass what the market value is, and
there's never going to be a way to get it
right with Kaitlyn. Caitlyn will always be a bigger star
than the financials will justify for the sport that she plays.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Absolutely shout out to our colleague over here, Arnie Spaniard
in the Fox Sports Radio Family. He just texted me
and said, it is a great point. It was impossible
to pay yao ming what he was worth the international
money he brought in. Great point, right, you start thinking
about these international stars, think about each row or right
(29:51):
now Otani, think about the money that he means internationally
for Major League Baseball. It's a and he I was
gonna say, he makes He's going to make tons of
money like ten years from now with these deferred payments,
which is crazy. But you know he's making around what
(30:11):
seven hundred million dollars I think fits and that's huge money.
But you start thinking about what he actually means for
Major League Baseball.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
That's a bargain.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Really, that's a bargain what he means on that international scale.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
So it's crazy to think about it from that standpoint.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I never really thought about contracts like that, like, yeah,
this is a huge chunk of change what mahomes or
Lebron or what Otani makes, But what they mean to
the sport and the money that they actually bring in
is far greater than those contracts.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I mean, the revenue generation generating of somebody like show Hey.
You got to think about the amount of people all
over the globe that are buying Dodgers gear. But then
you also got to think about the international TV rights packages.
And you know, again, when people are watching things, advertisers
pay more. So now you've got international TV and international
(31:07):
advertisers that are funneling money to Major League Baseball because
people in their respective country are watching at this point
just to watch show Hey. And that's that's just that
hits on such a different level. The money on that
that sort of a deal is so substantial that, yeah,
one hundred percent. If you know the old you got
to spend money to make money. Well, the Dodgers certainly
(31:29):
can be in part comfortable spending whatever it takes on show, hey,
because they can afford it, number one. But number two,
they're able to leverage more and get more back from
it because they're in that situation. Like I just the
Brewers weren't going to be able to spend what it
would take upfront to be able to see the return
on investment from it from the backside, right, And so
the Dodgers can. And that's that's why it becomes what
(31:50):
it is.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, no doubt about that. And this is to your point.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
This is part of the Caitlin Clark story where there
was a person from Indiana University Columbus and they calculated
what Caitlin Clark was responsible for, like what did she
mean to the city of Indianapolis. The economic impact was
about thirty six million dollars this per person calculated and
(32:15):
almost for the WNBA, almost twenty seven percent of the
WNBA's economic activity for the twenty twenty four season. That
includes attendance, merchandise, sales, and television. You're talking almost twenty
seven percent of all think about that attendance, merchandise, sales, television,
(32:35):
all of that twenty seven percent of all of that
money coming in and she's making seventy eight thousand dollars
per year. That's insane. Like, I don't know, man, I
know she's right, the agent is right. Caitlin's never gonna
get like financially what she's worth for the league. But
again it's a bad argument. She should be arguing, Yo,
(32:57):
this television contract, she's going to be making a cut.
Like you're a music guy, fits, what would your band
make percentage wise?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
If you played a concert? Right, you go to an arena?
Do you know what percentage it was? Roughly?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
So no, I mean it doesn't The music business doesn't
really work that way, but I can't tell you. Like
the interesting thing is, like, you know, I came up
in country music, And it's funny because in country you
can have ten fifteen number ones. That's not an exaggeration,
and you're still going to struggle to sell out a
(33:31):
lot of arenas for a lot of people like it.
Just it takes a long time to get to the
point that you can ticket and make a ton of money.
Like that's just it's not real for most artists. You
have to have a ton of number ones. And we
always used to laugh about it when you would see
pop acts that barely have one number one and they're
selling out arenas immediately. You know, like we we watched
and I've got a good friend that for a long
(33:53):
time was the merch guy for one one direction, and
it was amazing, you know, to see one direction go
from in one year playing you know, tiny rooms to
all of a sudden playing arenas to playing football stadiums
in twelve months. And you know, when I left the Vampario,
we had the number four song of all time. If
I Got Young was the number four song of all
time in country. And it's still to try and go
(34:16):
in and play an arena, man, you had to have
a couple other acts with you, Like, it's just it's
amazing how different the economics of country music are. Fart ever,
when people talk about the humility of country artists, and
in part it's largely because the economics for many country
artists are nowhere near what they are for pop artists.
So you know, how it works is really complicated, but
(34:36):
just monetarily, like, yeah, there's sort of a WNBA versus
NBA compound right where you know, in the w you
can be the biggest of the big and look at
artists like Little Big Town that are you know, one
of the best in singing groups in history and country music,
and Little Big Town still like they don't they don't
go out and play twenty thousand seed arenas every night
(34:59):
by themselves. They can't. They have to be with other
acts to do it. And that's just that's real in country.
So yeah, there are some comparisons for sure.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
So that's the thing is, let's say pop that's like
the NBA and they're selling out arenas. You know what
I'm saying, Like, think of music, you're doing stadium tours. Right,
whatever act there is, let's just call it, I don't know,
fifty percent, just for the sake of being simple here, right,
you make fifty percent of whatever you bring in as
(35:30):
the music, as the artist or the band, what have.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
You, the act.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
It's like, Okay, it's going to be a smaller scale
for the WNBA, no doubt, But you got to argue
the same percentage, you know what I mean. Like in
my argument, if I'm Caitlin's agent, is this television money
has gone up significantly, we need to be making the
same percentage, you know, whatever, If it's fifty percent. We
need to be making the same percentage, and percentage wise,
(35:56):
that equals more than seventy eight thousand dollars for the
twenty twenty five season, you know, like they there's I
don't know all the ins and outs of the new CBA,
but I know with the boom, with the television money,
with the attendance going up league wide, like these women
gotta be making more money than they are the unrivaled league.
They're making on average about two hundred and twenty thousand
(36:18):
dollars per year like the WNBA, with the television money
and with the attendants, like they got to be making
more than they are. I just don't understand how the
contracts are that low. There's way too low. It's not
gonna be like Luka DONCIC money. I'm not arguing that,
but scale wise, percentage wise, it will equal more than
(36:38):
seventy eight thousand dollars per year.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
That's insane.
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Arings rating Win and Jonas Knox on
Fox four Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
All right fits. So the Bengals, they're trying to keep
the band together. They're going to attempt to sign three
of their stars to long term deals this offseason. They're
trying to sign wide receivers Jamar Chase and T Higgins
and also their defensive end Trey Hendrickson, and it's it's
gonna be challenging. Okay, they might have to franchise tag
(00:35):
T Higgins. Jamar Chase. You remember, right, he's a triple
Crown guy. Now he just led the league in catches,
receiving yards, and receiving touchdowns. So signing that guy, you're
talking around forty million dollars per year. And they're trying
to get Hendrickson and they're trying to get T Higgins.
That's a lot of cash, man. So I guess the
(00:56):
first thing is do you think it makes sense to
devote that much money to two wide receivers, because I don't.
You've got Joe Burrow, who's a special quarterback, and you're
gonna have to skimp in areas with that roster, and
so to sign Jamar Chase off a triple crown year
and t Higgins to long term deals plural I just
(01:20):
don't think that's a smart approach. Maybe franchising tea for
a year, maybe that would work, but long term deals
for all three I just don't see how that's a
viable way to go forward.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I think the hardest part about the long term deals
is that you missed the window to do that effectively.
Because the argument to this is always, well, look at
what the Eagles are doing. And one of the keys
to how Howie Roseman has constructed his roster is A,
they're pushing the can down the street a little bit
on some of the salary cap numbers avoidable years at
the end of contracts. But b he gets ahead of it.
(01:54):
He's run his entire organization for years under the press
on the premise of either sign you early and get
ahead of whatever market value is than to sign you late. Well,
the Bengals have missed all of those windows for each
of the players you just mentioned, like they're taking a
cowboys approach of we're gonna let this thing go as
long as it takes. Well. When you take that approach,
it costs you more money. So I think anytime somebody
(02:17):
wants to use the comp of well the Eagles have
managed to sign all these guys, you have to acknowledge
the fact that part of that method is getting ahead
of it. And you already missed that window for the Bengals.
So now you've got a team that frankly has money
to spend, but they have to look in the mirror
because you know, the way that they have wasted the
prime years at this point of Joe Burrow is malpractice
(02:39):
for an NFL's team. You know, I just you had
this great offense and you couldn't get everybody on the
field healthy the way you wanted and took forever and
then even after your quarterback started to just absolutely blow
up and had to look at MVP type season this year,
what did that actually result on the field with nothing?
We have to go back to this part of what
(03:00):
we just saw, Like the method, the blueprint of beating
the Kansas City Chiefs is out there. The blueprint we've
seen in two different Super bowls now is dominate on
the defensive line in a way that their offensive line
can't handle it. Like that is easier said than done.
But we've now seen two Super Bowls where the Chiefs
lost because they were absolutely destroyed on the line of scrimmage.
(03:20):
So what do the Bengals do when they're sitting here
with the quarterback that is capable of beating Mahomes we've
seen it. Well, they're going to invest more in the
wide receivers and still not have a defense like I do.
That doesn't make any sense to me. That's you're looking
at the math that we've already seen over here and
you say, well, we're not gonna do that. We're just
gonna keep stacking the offensive side of the ball. I
just I don't think you can win in the AFC.
(03:41):
I don't think that you can beat the Chiefs unless
you can put together a defensive line that can absolutely dominate.
The Bengals don't have that. Their money, their focused, their
draft picks, their allocation should all be going to that
right now.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, man, their defense was rough last season. That's the
reason why Joe Burrow put up legit MVP type number
and they went nine to eight, right, and their defensive coordinator,
lou Anarumo got fired. Like he's with the Colts now,
he's had a new address. So, yeah, you need more talent.
It's not like Lou forgot how to coach defense. They
(04:13):
just don't have a lot of talent on that side
of the ball. And it showed you can't have in
this day and age right the twenty twenty four season.
When your quarterback puts up numbers like Joe Burrow, you
should not be a nine to eight football team. You know,
he threw for almost five thousand yards, fits he threw
forty three touchdown passes in nine interceptions. His passer rating
(04:36):
is third in the entire NFL over one oh eight.
That's fantastic. They're barely above five hundred. You know, like
you can't have a defense that is that week and
signing t Higgins to a long term deal or even
franchising him that does nothing to fix the lack of
(04:57):
talent defensively. So I just know Joe Burrow is a
special quarterback and I think the Mahomes approach makes more
sense here where they didn't sign Tyreek Hill to this
enormous deal. They went in a different direction. They went young,
and really they got burned because Rashie Rice got hurt
last year. If you have Rashie Rice and Xavier Worthy.
(05:18):
That's a pretty good one two combo right there, and
that's what they'll have this upcoming season. But they didn't
break the bank for a wide receiver. What the Bengals
are trying to do, they're not only trying to sign
like the equivalent of Tyreek Hill with the Chiefs, they're
trying to sign another stud like alongside Tyreek Hill. The
(05:39):
Chiefs didn't even sign Tyreek so you don't have to
do everything the Chiefs way. But I think that approach
makes a lot of sense. If you've got a special quarterback,
you don't need to get him all the wide receiver
bells and whistles in the world. He's gonna put up
numbers regardless. You can use that money to address weaker
spots where you'd don't have a Joe Burrow type player
(06:02):
to compensate for that. So I just think moving on
from t Higgins makes a lot more sense to address
other areas of need.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Once you start paying people too, it becomes even more
important that you nail it in the draft. And that's
part of what we I mean just the fact that, look,
there are a million reasons why Jalen Carter was available
when the Eagles went to the draft podium. I want
to stress that I've covered the draft since twenty sixteen.
I used to cover it for ESPN, now for Yahoo.
(06:32):
And the only time I've ever had to pre write
a statement and have it ready for a draft pick
when he was selected was Jalen Carter because we understood
that we had to get the verbiage very right on
what he'd been accused of and what had happened at
that point. So I say that only to say that
there was context around why he was available, so you
know that happened. But then also you have last year's draft,
where widely Quinya Mitchell was widely respected as the top
(06:56):
corner available in the draft. Just he was there, he
felt Cooper Degen is somebody that most people had a
much higher grade on, and just the way the draft
board fell, he was there. So the ability to use
the draft, I tell people all the time, if your
favorite team stinks, you got to look in the mirror
and ask yourself, how many new starters do we need?
Because a Hall of Fame offseason, oh my god, we
(07:20):
have the executive of the year running our organization offseason
might net you a total of four or five, Wow,
new starters. Like that's a Hall of Fame level, and
that's what the Eagles got last year. The Eagles got
a Hall of Fame level offseason. It doesn't happen very often.
So if you're the Bengals, you got to look around
and say, Okay, if we're gonna start paying guys, do
we have the front office here that is gonna nail
(07:42):
every single draft pick. Because once you start paying guys, boy,
you better get the first, second, third rounders. They better
all turn out to be starters. So now you're paying
a wide receiver, which is when's above replacement, one of
the positions you should be able to overtime, churn and burn,
should be able to find wide receivers in the draft
more and more. So you're paying one of those wide receivers.
(08:03):
You're trusting your front office to then nail the draft
and get the rest of what they need constantly, Like
these feel like variables. I wouldn't trust the Bengals to nail.
So even in the sense of even if you want
to find the way to stack the bricks and say okay, no,
the signing team makes sense. It only makes sense if
all of these other things are also going right for you,
and they're not going to go right for the Bengals,
(08:24):
so that it just feels failed from the outset.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, you know, I wonder if we're at some point
fits gonna see the way the league thinks of running backs,
you know, like in general, if they're going to start
thinking of wide receivers similarly, because if you look at
running backs, Okay, the top top guys, they make decent money, right,
(08:49):
you know, like relative to their position. They're not breaking
the bank anymore for running backs. But you saw the
impact of Saquon Barkley, Derek Henry. Those are special guys.
The way they treat other runnings is they use them
on their rookie deals and then if they're not like
Christian McCaffrey when healthy, you know, upper upper echelon, they'd
(09:09):
go young and they draft the next guy, you know,
And I wonder if that's gonna be similar with wide receivers.
The top top end guys Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, those
special wide receivers, they're gonna make major money. I'm not
saying they shouldn't, but the next tier down instead of
breaking the bank for those guys, are they gonna look
(09:31):
and say, man, wide receiver is it's typically a rich
draft position, you know, and you can go young and
you can find someone who's good, maybe not as good,
but sufficient, and we just go young with that number
two receiver, that number three receiver. Why are the Bengals
(09:51):
trying to sign t Higgins to a long term extension
when they have Jamar Chase? I just don't think that
makes sense. If you had draft after draft after draft
where there's just a lack of depth at wide receiver talent, Okay,
that makes sense. That's not the case you see time
after time rich wide receiver drafts. I just think it
(10:13):
makes more sense to go young when you're talking about
your number two or number three receiver. If you've got
a high end number one, if you got a bunch
of number two's, okay, maybe that makes more sense. You've
got a legit, bona fide number one stud in Jamar Chase,
I just don't see the sense and backing up the
brinks truck Fort Higgins also, I just think that's a
(10:34):
bad approach by the Bengals.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
So take a look at according to overthecap dot com,
right now, looking at twenty twenty five wide receiver salaries
and look at the cap numbers. The number one cap
number next year at the wide receiver position currently is
DeVante Adams, who he most people expect are gonna be
cut by the Jets, right because of that large cap number.
The number three cap number belongs to DK Metcalf, who
(10:57):
is on the trading block according to multiple reports at
this point at thirty two million dollars, Cooper cup is
on the trading block. You know is twenty twenty nine
point seven million dollars, right like Calvin Ridley for the Titans,
twenty eight million dollars. Go up and down the list.
These are all guys that you know have situations with
their contracts at this point speaks to what you're talking
(11:19):
about the next level. The AJ Browns and Nico Collins,
Courtland Sutton's like those guys are all of the seventeen eighteen,
nineteen twenty million dollar range. You are absolutely right, like
there's going to become a have and have not at
the wide receiver position. If you've got a CD, and
you know, CD's gonna be worth thirty five million, t
if you've got Justin Jefferson, he's gonna be worth whatever
(11:39):
he wants like Justin Jefferson. Right now, according to the
over the cap is only fifteen million. That number is
about to explode. The thing is Justin Jefferson is at
fifteen million, that's going to explode. Jacoby Myers is right
behind him at fourteen point nine million, that that number
ain't about to explode. Like, You're going to discover quickly
that if you've got one of the top five six
(12:00):
guys in the league, you're gonna pay that guy, there's
no doubt about it. But if you've got the twelfth
best wide receiver, now we're talking about wins above replacement,
If you've got the fifteenth best wide receiver, is it
worth getting into the thirty million dollar range for a
guy like that or is it worth continually going back
into the draft. And I think we're gonna find over
time that that answers go back into the draft more
(12:20):
often than not.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, you know, it's funny, man, I'm just looking at
the twenty three draft. You know, I just went instead
of like all rookies this past season, I just went
back another draft just to see how much depth there
is at wide receiver and fits.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Man, we're talking depth here.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
You know, the top wide receiver shows in the twenty
three draft was the twentieth overall pick, Jackson Smith and Jigba.
He's been fantastic, had a great year for the Seahawks
this past season, right same first round. Zay Flowers with
the Ravens, Jordan Addison with the Vikings. These guys have
all contributed. Jayden Reid with the Packers has been good.
(12:58):
Rashie Rice with the Chiefs before he got hurts fantastic,
Tank Dell with the Texans before he had a leg injury.
He contributed. Josh Downs with the Colts has been pretty decent.
You keep going down. There have been other guys that
have contributed. Fifth round, Puka Nakuwa, it's a fifth rounder,
you know, like you're finding depth the Bengals. Coincidentally enough,
(13:18):
that same draft, sixth round andre Yosi Vosh Who's contributed
as like your number three receivers. So when you can
find that much depth, I just I don't know why
you're not trying to move on from T Higgins. I
don't get it, but hey, they're trying to keep the
band together at least for now. Do you think it
(13:39):
makes sense the even franchise tea. You think one more year?
What do you think about that fits? Because that's even
a high dollar amount.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
No, I think the only reason I woul franchise in
is if I was trying to do a sign and trade.
And look, I think T is a number one somewhere.
I do like, this isn't about T. This is just
about man. If you're the Bengals, you got to look
in the mirror and ask yourself do you have anywhere
near enough pieces on the defensive side of the ball,
and so otherwise you're just constantly going to be running
(14:07):
back this nine wins sort of. You know this conversation
we have every year, Oh, nobody wants to take on
that team in the playoffs. Okay, fine, if that's if
you take a lot of pride in being the team
that nobody wants to faces in the playoffs, but you're
desperately trying to scratch and claw your way back into
this thing every year. To me, this is a wild
(14:28):
influx of new talent on the defensive side of the
ball is the only priority. And then I got Joe Burrow,
Like the other thing that I'm always going to worry
about if I'm the Bengals, is I'm just going to
continue to hammer the offensive line. Like I don't want
to oversimplify here, but we just saw in a Super
Bowl that these things are won in the trenches, right,
And so we saw throughout the course of the majority
(14:49):
of the year, like the two best teams in the
NFC clearly most of the year were the Detroit Lions
and the Philadelphia Eagles. What do they have in common
of both of those teams, especially when healthy, we're dominant
on both lines. Like I just I know none of
us love covering the draft when you have to talk
about a bunch of fat guys getting drafted that they
can't really analyze. Like if your favorite team draft's a
(15:10):
fact guy you've never heard of, then put your feet
up and have a beer, because, like you probably just
had a really good draft. And I just I understand
why you want the sexiness to tea but man, there's
just a lot of other needs for the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
It really is true, man. And when we just saw
the Super Bowl and the Eagles dominate on both their lines, right,
the O line, the D line, they both did work.
And yeah, I know it's kind of like the quote
unquote skill position players the fantasy football players. Yeah, those
(15:41):
are fun and they can absolutely contribute. But man, if
you have work to do in the trenches and you're
bypassing that for the sexy players, that can absolutely come
back to bite you. It's happened time and time again.
I guess the thing is, to me, this is less
of a Bengals thing and more of ask yourself what
you would want if this was the same situation with
(16:03):
your favorite team. You know, if it's you'r a Raiders guy.
I've loved the Dolphins for whatever reason since I can remember,
you know, if they had exactly what the Bengals had,
same exact situation. They have Burrow, they have Jamar Chase,
they have T Higgins, They're off a nine to eight season,
their defense sucked, right, Like, would I want them to
(16:24):
re sign both wide receivers to long term deals? No,
I wouldn't. I would want them to sign Jamar Chase
and move on from T. Higgins, And like you said,
maybe franchise them, try to trade them, don't let them
leave for nothing, that sort of thing. But no, I
think that you got to address other areas of need
and we'll see what the Bengals do. But at least
(16:46):
that's not their thinking right now, that's not their approach,
But we'll see what happens when they're trying to hammer
out these deals.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
All right, fit, So I like this theory from you,
or this this idea. You've got an idea why the
the All Star games, not just in the NBA, but
all star games across other sports landscapes are not exactly
working out?
Speaker 4 (17:24):
What's this theory of yours?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, the funny thing is you have to look back
to where all Star games worked and asked yourself why
as part of this, and you know, we now live
in a world where you can get every single ounce
of coverage of every single sport every single day. So
if you're an NBA fan, you can get an NBA
League Pass and you can watch the league every single night.
(17:50):
Twenty years ago, that just wasn't possible. I wasn't readily there.
So all Star breaks, all Star games had such incredible
meaning because you know, if you go back to the
nineties where everybody keeps talking about Jordan played every game
and he played in the All Star Games, Well, there
was so much more emphasis to that All Star game
because you never saw the stars taking each other on TV.
Packages didn't even allow for that. Like, think about the
(18:12):
way college sports have changed and how it used to
be that you could be Nebraska and you were gonna
be a huge program because you were on TV every week.
Now every single game for every single team is on
TV every single week. Like at some point, the normalization
of how we're able to consume every highlight, every star player,
every dunk, every single moment of every sport means that
(18:34):
by the very nature of that, like all Star games
are gonna feel useless. You can watch these stars every
night in the league. You can see great dunks every
night in the league. So you've got this sort of
desensitized thing on top of the fact that we've seen
it all before, on top of the fact that we
see these stars every night, on top of the fact
that it's just blasted in your face every day. It
(18:54):
just it feels like all Star games are a failed
process now for every single sport because there is so
much coverage of every one of those sports throughout the
course of the regular season. Yeah, I hear, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I think that has something to do with it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think, especially in baseball, think about that where there
was like a Game of the week and that was it,
and certainly was There wasn't any interleague play, and so
when you're seeing the best stars of the AL finally
play against the best stars of the NL, it was
just a different dynamics. So yeah, I think that has
something to do with it. I think it's like layers, right.
(19:27):
I think one of the major layers too, is just
the effort level, especially in the NBA. If you go
out there and you try, and you compete and it's
a legitimate product and a legitimate game, I think the
ratings are going to be much better. But when you
last year they combined for almost four hundred points in
a game, it's just like, bro, this is a total
waste of time. So I think that layer contributes as well.
(19:51):
But the layer that you're mentioning absolutely contributes, no doubt
about that.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I will also say to your point of f again,
I'll go back to how we cover the NBA. You
can have the single greatest season in history, and all
of a sudden, everybody rolls their eyes if it doesn't
result in a championship. So if we are suddenly in
the spot where the only thing that matters for your
(20:15):
entire legacy playing in the NBA is how many championships
you win, because one isn't even enough, then how do
you put emphasis on an All Star game that people
won't even remember you played in? Like, why would anybody
give effort? Because no matter what that effort is, we're
just gonna sit there and squash whatever their entire career
is if it doesn't result in a championship.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's true, But when you're making so much money, the
audacity to be like, if you can incentivize us by
maybe giving us more money, it's like, bro, at some point,
have some fry to just go out there and compete
a little bit, is what I say.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Caitlin and Clark's agent made a statement that caught my
attention where she says, this is Aaron Kin.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So Aaron Kin, she represents Caitlin Clark and some other
WNBA stars. It's part of Excel Sports Management. But Aaron
Kain says it's impossible to pay Caitlin Clark her true
WNBA value. And I thought that was an interesting statement
because I think it goes beyond the WNBA. We'll stick
(21:33):
with the WNBA for a second, but how crazy is
this Where Caitlin is set to make for the twenty
twenty five season, seventy eight thousand dollars, that's her WNBA
paycheck fits how can that be? But it's an interesting
statement to say it's impossible to pay her her true
(21:56):
WNBA value, And you start thinking about My mind went
immediately to the NBA, and we'll bring it back to
the WNBA. But think on a greater scale where you
see some of these contracts. We just saw the Dallas
Mavericks in part we believe trade Luka Doncic because they
didn't want to pay the supermax three hundred and forty
(22:18):
five million dollar price tag, right, And you start thinking, man,
three hundred and forty five million dollars, that's huge money.
But start thinking about the value to the league. You
could argue Luka, Doncic or other players Lebron, James, Steph
Curry as much money as Steph Curry makes, He's made
(22:40):
more money for the NBA than he makes himself, you
know what I mean. Like, so when you start thinking
about that, especially with these NBA contracts, huge money, and you're.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Like, wow, man, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
If you stop and think, and I never did before,
what's their true value for the NBA? With would they?
Can you pay Lebron like annually what he's worth for
the NBA?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
No way.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So I thought that was an interesting way to say
it by the agent, but maybe not the greatest statement
because you can't do that in the NBA on a
far greater scale. There Caitlin's making peanuts at seventy eight
thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
That's crazy. Something's got to change as far as that goes.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, And this is where so many people will come
in and try and downplay the value of some of
these athletes, and I'll just remind everybody. So I looked
it up here and it looks like according to the
most recent article I can find here that you know,
we're talking about, you know, roughly one point five million
people watching on an average regular season basketball game. So
(23:45):
here's what we know. That number is higher for certain brands.
The Lakers attract ratings. The reason that people talk about
the Lakers so much is because people watch it. So
it's not an accident. And you know, I'll go back
to First Take and shows like that on ESPN. They
study the metrics every day. So when you ask yourself
why these TV shows only talk about the Lakers and
(24:06):
the Cowboys, it's because they get daily numbers every day
that shows it when they talk about the Lakers and
the Cowboys, more people watch. That might be unbelievable to
you listening, but it's real. So when you think about
what the value is of certain athletes, I mean you
can do this in the NFL too, Like what's the
true value of Patrick Mahomes? Just is it really forty
(24:27):
fifty million dollars d Like if there was no salary
cap and you were just saying, okay, every time the
Chiefs are on TV, you know, twenty thirty forty fifty
million people watch depending on what the day is, right,
So right, what's the value of that? In modern sports?
Like the reason that sports, the reason the NBA, for example,
just did a historic new TV deal. Is because advertisers
(24:49):
understand that the only thing left that you can't simply
record and skip through the commercials on are live sports.
You watch them live, You're captivated by it live. You
got to see the scoring as it happens. As a result,
you have a captive audience, which is why advertisers are
paying more than ever to get advertisements on it. And
so we see here all day long talk about well,
(25:11):
ratings are down, ratings are down, ratings down, it doesn't matter.
Money's up because advertisers understand that this is a captive audience.
So if advertisers understand that, what's the real value of Lebron?
I can't even imagine what's the real value of Golden State.
We talked about them earlier, Like if we just looked
at value, Oklahoma City has very little because the common
(25:34):
fan that doesn't give a damn is rarely tuning in
to Oklahoma City right now. But the Lakers and Lebron
have a ton because common fans will just sit there
and watch anything that the Lakers and Lebron are on.
So yeah, I mean it's alarming when you think about
the face of different sports. I don't think that you
could put a price tag on what most of them.
If there was no salary cap and no tax bracket caps,
(25:57):
they could get whatever they want. Like, if it were
true free market, it'd be insane to see how much
Lebron would.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Make, no doubt. Right, Yeah, you start thinking about that.
Think about the NFL media rights deals, right where all
these different television companies and you put all that money
in in one category, it's billions and billions of dollars.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
So you start thinking.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
About the top stars, the high end, the mahomes and right, like,
what they mean for the league financially is way more
than what they get paid. And that's why I think
it's a bad argument from Caitlin's agents that that shouldn't
be the argument. She's right that Caitlin will never make
(26:39):
her true WNBA value, But how does that help her
get more money?
Speaker 4 (26:45):
You know what I'm saying, Like, that's a good.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Point, but how does that help your client get more
cash that she deserves. That's why it's like, hey, good point,
but that doesn't help your client. That's why it's a
bad argument. You know, Like the WNBA they announced last year,
it's eleven year media rights deal and that's valued at
about two point two billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
So it's about two hundred million dollars per year.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Right, right, this is huge. It was you know, sixty
million dollars per year. Now it's two hundred million dollars
per year. To me, the better argument from that agent is, yo,
we just have a new media rights deal. It's worth
one hundred and forty million dollars more per year than
it was. How is Caitlin Clark only making seventy eight
(27:31):
thousand dollars per year? Still with that in mind, right,
Like that to me helps your client. It puts her
in a better position to make more money instead of
she's never gonna get her true value. It's like, yeah, right,
but how does that help exactly? And I don't think
it does at all.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, and it it gets it gets complicated because certainly
Caitlyn has a million other ways to make money. But
I remember when Lebron was first drafted. I saw an
interview his rookie year and somebody asked him at the time,
I don't remember who was who he really worked for.
And the reason that the question was asked that way
is because Lebron's original initial contract with the Nike was
(28:11):
more than the Cleveland Cavaliers were paying him because of
the salary cap structure, and so the question was who
do you really work for? The Calves are Nike? And
I remember Lebron laughing and saying both. Like that is
such a real part of what happens for athletes a
different portions of their career. You know, It's just it's
funny trying to figure out what the appropriate value because like, look,
(28:32):
the Tennessee Titans have the first overall pick in the
NFL draft. Nobody gives it damn because it's the Tennessee Titans,
Like if it was the Dallas Cowboys. We talk about
it every day. And cam Ward, you mentioned earlier, says,
you know you don't draft me, You'll you'll remember, well,
cam Ward was the first overall pick to you know,
a franchise that had a little bit more cachet with
(28:53):
with casual fans, it would be absolutely huge. But he won't.
He's going to be drafted to the Titans, which will
throttle back his earning potential for a substantial portion of
his career. Like that's real for him, even as an
NFL quarterback. Right, It's just he's not going to have
the same level of give a damn from casual fans
everywhere because he happens to be drafted by the Titans. So, like,
(29:14):
it's interesting, every sport has certain teams, certain brands, certain
players that certainly surpass what the market value is, and
there's never going to be a way to get it
right with Kaitlyn. Caitlyn will always be a bigger star
than the financials will justify for the sport that she plays.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Absolutely shout out to our colleague over here, Arnie Spaniard
in the Fox Sports Radio Family. He just texted me
and said, it is a great point. It was impossible
to pay yao ming what he was worth the international
money he brought in. Great point, right, you start thinking
about these international stars, think about each row or right
(29:51):
now Otani, think about the money that he means internationally
for Major League Baseball. It's a and he I was
gonna say, he makes He's going to make tons of
money like ten years from now with these deferred payments,
which is crazy. But you know he's making around what
(30:11):
seven hundred million dollars I think fits and that's huge money.
But you start thinking about what he actually means for
Major League Baseball.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
That's a bargain.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Really, that's a bargain what he means on that international scale.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
So it's crazy to think about it from that standpoint.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I never really thought about contracts like that, like, yeah,
this is a huge chunk of change what mahomes or
Lebron or what Otani makes, But what they mean to
the sport and the money that they actually bring in
is far greater than those contracts.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I mean, the revenue generation generating of somebody like show Hey.
You got to think about the amount of people all
over the globe that are buying Dodgers gear. But then
you also got to think about the international TV rights packages.
And you know, again, when people are watching things, advertisers
pay more. So now you've got international TV and international
(31:07):
advertisers that are funneling money to Major League Baseball because
people in their respective country are watching at this point
just to watch show Hey. And that's that's just that
hits on such a different level. The money on that
that sort of a deal is so substantial that, yeah,
one hundred percent. If you know the old you got
to spend money to make money. Well, the Dodgers certainly
(31:29):
can be in part comfortable spending whatever it takes on show, hey,
because they can afford it, number one. But number two,
they're able to leverage more and get more back from
it because they're in that situation. Like I just the
Brewers weren't going to be able to spend what it
would take upfront to be able to see the return
on investment from it from the backside, right, And so
the Dodgers can. And that's that's why it becomes what
(31:50):
it is.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, no doubt about that. And this is to your point.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
This is part of the Caitlin Clark story where there
was a person from Indiana University Columbus and they calculated
what Caitlin Clark was responsible for, like what did she
mean to the city of Indianapolis. The economic impact was
about thirty six million dollars this per person calculated and
(32:15):
almost for the WNBA, almost twenty seven percent of the
WNBA's economic activity for the twenty twenty four season. That
includes attendance, merchandise, sales, and television. You're talking almost twenty
seven percent of all think about that attendance, merchandise, sales, television,
(32:35):
all of that twenty seven percent of all of that
money coming in and she's making seventy eight thousand dollars
per year. That's insane. Like, I don't know, man, I
know she's right, the agent is right. Caitlin's never gonna
get like financially what she's worth for the league. But
again it's a bad argument. She should be arguing, Yo,
(32:57):
this television contract, she's going to be making a cut.
Like you're a music guy, fits, what would your band
make percentage wise?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
If you played a concert? Right, you go to an arena?
Do you know what percentage it was? Roughly?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
So no, I mean it doesn't The music business doesn't
really work that way, but I can't tell you. Like
the interesting thing is, like, you know, I came up
in country music, And it's funny because in country you
can have ten fifteen number ones. That's not an exaggeration,
and you're still going to struggle to sell out a
(33:31):
lot of arenas for a lot of people like it.
Just it takes a long time to get to the
point that you can ticket and make a ton of money.
Like that's just it's not real for most artists. You
have to have a ton of number ones. And we
always used to laugh about it when you would see
pop acts that barely have one number one and they're
selling out arenas immediately. You know, like we we watched
and I've got a good friend that for a long
(33:53):
time was the merch guy for one one direction, and
it was amazing, you know, to see one direction go
from in one year playing you know, tiny rooms to
all of a sudden playing arenas to playing football stadiums
in twelve months. And you know, when I left the Vampario,
we had the number four song of all time. If
I Got Young was the number four song of all
time in country. And it's still to try and go
(34:16):
in and play an arena, man, you had to have
a couple other acts with you, Like, it's just it's
amazing how different the economics of country music are. Fart ever,
when people talk about the humility of country artists, and
in part it's largely because the economics for many country
artists are nowhere near what they are for pop artists.
So you know, how it works is really complicated, but
(34:36):
just monetarily, like, yeah, there's sort of a WNBA versus
NBA compound right where you know, in the w you
can be the biggest of the big and look at
artists like Little Big Town that are you know, one
of the best in singing groups in history and country music,
and Little Big Town still like they don't they don't
go out and play twenty thousand seed arenas every night
(34:59):
by themselves. They can't. They have to be with other
acts to do it. And that's just that's real in country.
So yeah, there are some comparisons for sure.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
So that's the thing is, let's say pop that's like
the NBA and they're selling out arenas. You know what
I'm saying, Like, think of music, you're doing stadium tours. Right,
whatever act there is, let's just call it, I don't know,
fifty percent, just for the sake of being simple here, right,
you make fifty percent of whatever you bring in as
(35:30):
the music, as the artist or the band, what have.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
You, the act.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
It's like, Okay, it's going to be a smaller scale
for the WNBA, no doubt, But you got to argue
the same percentage, you know what I mean. Like in
my argument, if I'm Caitlin's agent, is this television money
has gone up significantly, we need to be making the
same percentage, you know, whatever, If it's fifty percent. We
need to be making the same percentage, and percentage wise,
(35:56):
that equals more than seventy eight thousand dollars for the
twenty twenty five season, you know, like they there's I
don't know all the ins and outs of the new CBA,
but I know with the boom, with the television money,
with the attendance going up league wide, like these women
gotta be making more money than they are the unrivaled league.
They're making on average about two hundred and twenty thousand
(36:18):
dollars per year like the WNBA, with the television money
and with the attendants, like they got to be making
more than they are. I just don't understand how the
contracts are that low. There's way too low. It's not
gonna be like Luka DONCIC money. I'm not arguing that,
but scale wise, percentage wise, it will equal more than
(36:38):
seventy eight thousand dollars per year.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
That's insane.
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