Best of 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe

Monday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Jonas Knox and Brady Quinn celebrate the success that was the Draft in Green Bay. The Shedeur slide comes down to how he handled interviews but how in the world can the Browns manage the QB room? Jonas and Brady hate the prank calls on Shedeur Sanders and others but think there’s a way for the NFL to avoid it. And Mel Kiper embarrassed himself with how he handled the Shedeur Sanders slide in the Draft.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with LaVar arrings and Rady Win and Jonas Knox on
BOTS Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
You know, at least one of us is delivering the
goods here as far as music goes on this show.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Can't speak for anybody else.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Two pros and a cup of Joe, Fox Sports Radio,
Rady Quinn, Jonas Knox with you here. No LeVar Arrington.
He's still working on a U A countertake to the
Warriors are done if Jimmy Butler is injured. So we'll
get to that as soon as we'll get to that.

(00:55):
As soon as he figures out what out, he'll be
joining us here on the show. But no LeVar, and
it'll be BQ and I taking you all the way
up until nine am Eastern time, six o'clock Pacific. How
about that NFL draft in Green Bay?

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Huh? How about its awesome put on a.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yeah for a draft that outside of Shador Sanders, which
you know he delivered, he delivered, But outside of Shador Sanders,
it didn't seem like there was a lot of drama.
The ratings were there and Green Bay showed up. That
was such an unbelievable scene in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Kudos

(01:33):
to all the fans that went out there, the Packers fans,
Everett involved with the Packers organization. That looked awesome. That
looked like the place to be for the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Draft at Mark Murphy said, I think a week ago
the expectation was two hundred and fifty thousand people were
going to be in attendance over the course of the weekend,
and the NFL announced, well a little more than that.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
At six hundred thousand.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
So that's got to be great for the businesses there,
the local me they put out, Man, that was awesome.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
You know what's incredible to watch, And and we'll get
to the topic that everyone wants to talk about. But
mel Kuiper has found himself kind of embroiled in this
topic that everyone wants to talk about. Shador Sanders has
drop to the fifth round. But if you go back

(02:24):
and watch one of the first times, like mel Kuiper
really made a name for himself in talking about the
Colts organization and hammering their general manager I believe it
was at the time. Oh yeah, just go back and
look at the scene of that room and and how
the draft was conducted back then. Which I mean it's not.

(02:47):
You know, at some point, you know, they decided to
make this thing a lot bigger in New York and
invite players and make it more of an event. But
the decision was it what five years ago?

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Now?

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Is that? How long has it been?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
I thren seven? Okay?

Speaker 4 (03:02):
The decision to take it on the road, city by
city where they could almost bid for it, it's been
a home run case in point the Green Bay, Wisconsin
this past but like even Detroit was awesome, Nashville was awesome.
I know there's other cities that were involved, but I
look at it, I just go, this has been incredible. Man.

(03:23):
It really has been incredible for the NFL, their fan
bases and to mix in you know, fan bases that
aren't gonna be hosting a super Bowl, but in some cases,
the draft kind of is their super Bowl. You know.
There's a number of teams that they look forward to,
the hope and the optimism and the draft brings every year,
and this event has become so much fun to watch

(03:46):
and just see what's gonna happen next. It's it's the
best reality TV there is and now it's surrounded by
essentially almost like a reality TV show.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, and I was actually twenty fifteen because it first
went to Chicago for a couple of years, and then
it went to Philly, it went to Arlington, Nashville. In
twenty twenty it was actually held in Anthony Fauci's dungeon,
so it was held there, and then twenty twenty one
was Cleveland, Vegas, Kansas City, Detroit, and then Green Bay.

(04:17):
So ten years has been going on. It gets bigger
every year, every single year. Yeah, and look, I've always
thought that it's for places like Green Bay or a
place like Philly or Cleveland that's not going to get
a Super Bowl. This is kind of the next best
thing as far as you're not going to get what
Vegas got when we were there. New Orleans got when

(04:39):
we were there. But this is at least a consolation prize.
You hope the weather cooperates in late April and then
people show out and it's great for everybody in the town.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
Well that's never say never. If one of those cool
weather teams builds a dome, I'm just I'm not counting
them out yet, but yeah, think about this. Here are
the numbers, so we all know, like the first round
does well and that's that's part of the reason why
there's a desire for multiple networks. I mean, Fox isn't
on it, Amazon, some of the streaming networks. Everyone is

(05:12):
in on the rights to bid for the NFL Draft
next year. I mean next year is up now. ESPN
is still a part of it, but those rights are
going to go for at least fifty maybe to one
hundred million a year Jesus for the rights to this.

(05:32):
I mean the day to the second third round got
average over seven million viewers for that grant. That was
up forty percent compared to the year before, and a
lot of that had to do with Shador. But I
look at it and I go, this has become must
see TV. And in a time and era where like

(05:53):
we tend to watch things on our own, this is
appointment television and it has been to a degree. But
I can kudos to the NFL for having the vision
to see this through and get excitement around it. And
that's one of the things where I'm curious to see
if they open it up to other networks besides ESPN.
Because of a lot of the controversy around Shador, it's

(06:13):
probably time we pivot to his drop from what was
projected to potentially be a topic to the fifth round.
But even how ESPN handled it, which you know you could,
you can take whatever side you want, but he got
kind of ugly up there for a while, and maybe
it's time to let someone else actually go ahead and
handle it.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know, an old school radio, there's this term, it's
called the topic tree, where there's this tree that's a topic,
and then the branches that come off or different storylines
and angles off the topic. And Shador Sanders delivered many
branches off of that tree. First and foremost. Shout out
to the Cleveland Browns, you know, and I feel bad

(06:55):
for anybody who bet on the Cleveland Browns to be
the team who drafted Shador Sanders on DraftKings, was sitting
at plus three p forty on Thursday before the draft,
so you bet a hundred bucks, you went on three
hundred and forty dollars.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
That was a wild ride to go on to get.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Your three hundred and forty dollars, like you went round
after round after round, a quarterback taken the night before,
and then finally you get him to pick one forty
four in the fifth round. I don't I was not
expecting the Browns were going to be the team to
do so. But they traded up, they jumped over Philly,

(07:33):
they made the move, and now Shadoor Sanders finds himself
in Cleveland, And I just don't know that a lot
of people thought that was going to be the way
that it played out and ended up let alone in
the fifth round. But back to Cleveland, a team that
some people rejected he was going to end up with anyways.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, and let's just break this all down because there's
a lot of angles that I think people have taken
on this one. As for the drop, you know, that's
that's the first topic is how has a guy who
was viewed as a first round pick dropped to the
fifth round? Now that the first thing I'd say to
caution everyone in that regard is I was talking to
a former NFL general manager and he had talked about

(08:16):
how there's one like eleven eleven first round grades in
this year's draft. Yeah, so on the outside we get
these mock drafts. Again, guys who, in many cases no disrespect,
they've never played, coached or even been in a scouting department,
but they put together a mock draft. Okay, which mind you,

(08:37):
and no other facet of life. Do we look at
that with any credibility? Okay, like if you had someone
who had never actually played, coached, or been in a
front office organization to be in the role of selecting
that drafting a player, would we give any weight to
their opinion. But with the NFL Draft we do. I've

(08:57):
always said this, going to the NFL comp mine is
one of the most fascinating things because it's the start
of that evaluation process. And when you go as a
media member for credentialing, you get the like everyone out
of the woodwork comes out and it's like draft of
thon dot Com. It's like, yeah, I get your media credentials.
It's like, well, who are these guys?

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Backer Blitz done now, Packer Blitz.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah. Yeah, we were able to convince LeVar backer Blitz
dot Com was an actual credible, credentialed media company. So
that is how wide ranging this goes. Whether there's this
desire for everyone and their mother to want to give
you what they think about who's going to go here

(09:40):
and who's gonna be drafted there, or what this college
football player how he is. It's one of them. It's
the oddest thing, but at the same time it makes
a lot of fun. So here we are, we have
a player in Shador Sanders who look I'll be I'll
be full disclosure. I thought he was much closer to
cam Ward in regards to what I saw on tape
from the two then, you know, and Jackson Dart was

(10:03):
kind of right there behind him. But I didn't think
there was that much separation if you're just purely measuring
from pick one to pick one four at least as
far as the tape. And that's where the conversation I
think kind of ends, because a lot of what happened
with Shador Sanders, I think has to do with everything
outside of what he is as a football player. Now,

(10:26):
do I think he is dynamic or as athletic as Camboard.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
No?

Speaker 4 (10:30):
Does he have a strung of an arm? No. So
there's some things that you look at in his game
you go, well, I can see why he didn't go
anywhere close to cam Ward or get drafted ward Jalen
Milroe did. He's not as dynamic as an athlete of
Jalen Milroe. So then you started listening off some of
the other quarterbacks that went before him. You know Jackson
Dart went in the back of the first round. Well,

(10:53):
you don't have as many concerns about all the things
that Shador Sanders has going on around him as posed
to football, and so that this isn't a race thing.
And I know some people try to make it a
race topic. There's other black quarterbacks who were drafted, Cam
Warred in particular, Number one overall, Jaylen Milroe as well.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
And by the way, it's not like in the NFL's races.
It's like there's actually more biracial quarterbacks in the NFL
right now and there are white quarterbacks. So if you
want to go that route, go ahead, But I don't
know that you're going to find much credibility in that discussion.
This has to do with how Shador has handled himself
in meetings, how he's handled himself in the public eye,

(11:36):
and maybe to some degree too, the concern about the
dad and what that may happen if he gets drafted
and things don't go well. I mean, there's a lot
of concern with all that just from going through the
process as a player. These teams don't want you to
tell them how to do stuff. They're drafting you they're
the ones making the decision, and so they want you

(11:59):
to more fall in line now that they don't want
they want you to be your own person. But in
the same sense, they still want you to be a
part of their culture and their environment, not try to
change it. Like like they're there. They're the ones who
are there to try to bring players to have success,
to change it. They're they're not asking you to do

(12:19):
anything other than win football games. And I think that's
the hard part about this with Shador is you got
to keep the main thing the main thing. And when
you go to look at the draft party and they're
launching the Legendary brand and you see the prank call,
and you see him even in the prank call, he's
trying to They're they're filming it and everything else that
goes along with it. They're trying to like drop the

(12:41):
Legendary in there for part of the branding process. And
I'm like, all right, like this is about everything other
than football, feels like at times, and I think to
some degree that was a turnoff for a lot of
those teams. I mean, you can go through the other
accounts that started to surface, but that's where or at

(13:02):
least from my experience going through the combine being in
the NFL, being at times a starter a backup, and
being a guy who's just trying to be third stringer.
Hang on the NFL does not. None of these teams
are trying to say we want you to be the
one worrying about changing our franchise. We just want you
to go out and win. We want you to play football,

(13:23):
love football. That's all we want you to do. And
there's some people who would take issue with that, but
don't take issue with me. I'm just telling you how
it works.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, it was Todd McShay who reported Brian day Ball.
I guess they had to visit a private visit and
he tried to do an install package. Should Or Sanders
wasn't prepared for it. Brian day Ball called him out.
Should Or didn't like the fact that he called him out.
They asked Brian dave Ball about it. He kind of

(13:54):
sidestepped the whole thing over the weekend when they asked
him about it, and so you just started to hear
more of that stuff come out.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
And you go, Okay, well, maybe there really was something to.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
The reporting that was out there that he didn't have
great visits with teams throughout the whole process of the draft.
Now he's going to Cleveland and he's going to be
a member of the Browns. So of course the Cleveland
media caught up with him after he was selected on Saturday,
and here with Shador.

Speaker 6 (14:24):
I know I'm gonna fit in perfectly. It's first getting in,
showing the respected events, showing them you know, I'm here
ready to work, show to coaches and have him understand
you know, I'm here ready to work, so they could
actually understand the real me. That's what I'm truly thankful
to have is an opportunity for people to actually see

(14:47):
the real met and not be able to see stuff
that could be true or not.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
So there were some people that were kind of speculating, well,
maybe this is going to be the thing that humbles him.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean, you'd hope so, but yeah, like who knows.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Man, Like, if he's got this brand going, he's got
all these other things going. There's video surfacing of him
trying to convince cam Ward let's let's record a song together,
and cam Ward's like, no, I'm all about football.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
I don't want to be a rapper, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Like like you would think, Okay, maybe over the weekend
he got a glimpse into hey, you've got to clean
some stuff up. He alluded to that and talking with
the Cleveland media as well too. But now you turn
it over and you just say, all right, he's going
to get in there and we'll see how it plays
out as a fifth round pick as opposed to a
fringe first round pick that some people had him at.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
Well, let me ask you this. And they put out
a lot of content content themselves. I mean, was that
not real? Like what do you what are you supposed
to believe when they put out a lot of content?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Right, yeah, it's look the and I do wonder based
on the coverage over the weekend if there were certain
NFL teams that we're looking around gone Now do you see,
like we didn't even draft the guy. And look what
it's turned into. Right, And the more that it went on,

(16:09):
and you mentioned the ratings for it and the storyline,
and look, I give you credit all the time on
this and talking about it leading up to the draft.
You're the one who pointed out, man, if not for
Shador Sanders, what's the interesting storyline in the draft And
it's true, and that thing carried on all three days,
Like all three days, that was the story of the
entire draft.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
I will say this though, because the Sanders family and Shador,
because they're so polarizing, that's what drove it. It wasn't that
people are like waiting to see where he goes because
they like him, which is a bit sad. And we'll
talk about the prank call and all that stuff later on.
I think the hard thing for me and talking about

(16:53):
this draft pick too, though, is looking at it from
the side of the Cleveland rounds and I guess let's
just do this. Let's hear from their general manager Andrew Berry,
and then we can talk about that on the other
side of it.

Speaker 5 (17:08):
It wasn't necessarily the plan going into the weekend to
select two quarterbacks. But you know, as we talked about,
we do believe in best player available, we do believe
in positional value, and you know, we didn't necessarily expect
him to be available in the you know, in the
fifth round, and so we love adding competition to every
position room and adding him to compete with, you know,

(17:30):
the guys that are already in there. We felt like,
you know, that was the appropriate thing to do.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
How's this going to work? I mean, in all seriousness.
So so this offseason, the Cleveland Browns have signed veteran
Joe Flacco, who was already there a couple of years ago.
I think he built up a lot of equity with
the fan base for the way he handled himself and
help get that team, you know, into the playoffs towards
the end of the season. You have Kenny Pickett, who
they traded for, who's still on his rookie contract, former

(17:57):
first round pick. Then you take Dylan Gabriel, so very productive,
experienced quarterback at the college level. I think he comes
in ready to go. You know, there's some maybe some
limitations a bit with as far as his size, but
by all accounts a very talented passer, lefty, but very

(18:18):
talented passer. Then you take Shador And this doesn't mention
the fact that Deshaun Watson's still technically on the roster,
even though it feels like he's a bit of an afterthought. Yeah,
how's it going to work? You have four new players,
two of which are rookies, one that's on his rookie deal,

(18:39):
that's played some but not a ton, and you got
to get these all these guys prepared and reps for
someone to start. I mean, I understand clearly the Cleveland
Browns are trying to address the quarterback position, but I
don't think they're doing Chador any favors, because if you're
just basing it purely off of the draft pick and

(19:02):
what guys have signed for and what guys are being
paid and everything else that goes along with that, he's
the least valued. He He's the guy that starts day
one on the roster as fourth string, assuming Deshaun Watson
isn't healthy back as part of that whole mix, So
how many reps is he even getting? Like most teams

(19:25):
keep two, maybe three quarterbacks on their active roster. Four
maybe maybe I'm the practice squad if they keep three
on the active roster. So not only is it going
to be hard for especially between Dylan Gabriel, Shore Sanders
for one of the you know these guys develop, it's
to be hard to prepare any one of those four
for the be the starter. And so on top of that,

(19:50):
you now bring in what is And again we SAWID
day two in the draft, second and third round, seven
point two some point three million people watched just to
see if he did or did not get drafted and
everything that comes along with that, and some people might say,
well that's a good thing. Then people are gonna watch
the Browns for that opportunity of shoud or starts, well,

(20:10):
if he even gets the chance to start, if he
even gets the chance to dress. I mean, you get
a fifty three men roster at forty six dress, you
can use the third quarterback designation. That's if he even
dresses to have a chance of playing. So I look
at this as actually quite possibly one of the worst situations,

(20:31):
not only for a quarterback in the Browns room to
start and play, because you're gonna have limited reps. There's
no there's no one guy like Camboard right now. And
they could say will Lewis and they are gonna compete. Bs.
You drafted camb Woard number one. Overall, give cam Ward
every single flipping rep toil the start of the of

(20:51):
the this upcoming season, because because that's what you that's
what you drafted him to be, So prepare him. Give
them every rep at best. These guys are gonn He
did twenty five percent of whatever cam Woard's gonna get
at best so, and not only is it not a
good situation for either of the young quarterbacks they just drafted,
it's not a great situation to figure out who their

(21:12):
guy's going to be as their starter because they're not
getting a ton of enough reps or a ton of
reps to prepare for it. And based on the photo
when they took Shardhra Sanders, it looked like someone was
holding kevin'st to Fancy or Andrew Barry he hostage.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
But you you pointed that out to me, and I
went back and looked in Andrew Berry's face and he's like, yeah,
he looked like like like somebody was literally electrocuting his
dog right in front of him, like he had he
had no There was no emotion, no smile, no anything.
And for an organization that has tried to openly distance

(21:49):
themselves from a circus that is Deshaun Watson.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
They've just invited another one in.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
They could say whatever they want, all that branding, all
of that is coming to the organism, and they had
other options. They chose other options and still couldn't resist
and trade it up in order to grab them anyways,
So it's which it's wild man.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
You know, it's not often times that you have an
owner involved fifth round draft pick. I think Jimmy Haslm
was here. Oh boy. I mean when you hear the
words and again this is just you know, talking about
Andrew Berry. We just heard a moment ago say that
wasn't the plan going into it? Well, what changed? I
mean the head coach general Managemer. Their plans don't really change, right,

(22:34):
And you can talk about draft value, positional value, all
that stuff. You already took one. You took doing Gable
in the third round. So I sit there and say,
there is something more there where I'm sure Jimmy Haslm
kind of came to the rescue and nudge those guys
to bring Shure and give him a chance. And so
now hopefully Shudor could do some of the things he

(22:55):
said and fall in line. Give respect to the bets,
because here's the truth. Did it seem like Shadoor Sanders
or anyone really gave a lot of respect to the
Colorado players that were veterans, that were existing, they were
already there. I mean, the answer is no. But they're
going to rely on the fact of just saying, well,
there were a one win football team before we got there,

(23:17):
you know, and look what we built it into. Well,
it's not like every single one of those players was
the reason or justification for it. There's a lot of
factors that play a role in all of that. But look,
I've loved his confidence, I love his accuracy, I love
how he layers throws. I think he can play in
the NFL. I do. And Kevin Stefanski, by the way,

(23:39):
has been a coach that has showcased that doesn't matter
who's that quarterback, he can be able to maximize their abilities.
So from that standpoint, maybe it's a good thing for
where he ended up. But the problem is is, again,
you've got four guys who just all brought in this offseason.
They all need the reps. You got to prepare one
to be the starter, and that guy should get at

(24:00):
least half, if not the majority. And like I said,
with young guys or especially guys you want to start,
Like if if I was the starter, I'm not giving
up any of my reps ever, because I would never
want to feel like I'm not prepared or I wish
I would have taken one more rep of this. I
wish I would have taken one more rep of that.
You want to take as many reps as you can

(24:21):
to feel prepared because you have such a big install
week in and week out that you have a hard
time ever really making every throw that's on that game
plan or on that you know, on that call sheet.
So you want to get as many reps as possible.
That's why I keep going back to this. It just
it seems like it's gonna be an awkward scenario. But
I mean looking and I'm I'm a Browns fan through

(24:44):
and through, guy drafted by the Browns, played for it
was a part of kind of how this goes. And this,
unfortunately is the broken record. This keeps going over and
over and over again.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Man. But my buddy is a Browns fan.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
He works in radio at another network, and he texted
me and he's like, they just can't help themselves.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
They literally get's unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
It's like, what can't you let someone else do it? Hey, seriously,
let someone else do it? Did you just have can
you have an offseason where it's like there's just no
drama with it? Like if you got past Deshaun Watson,
now you can't just be like all right, let's let's
go in this direction. Let's do it the right way. No,
of course not.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, it's so there you go.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
There's the Cleveland Browns and the outlook for the twenty
twenty five season.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
App Obviously, the big story from the weekend the fall
of Shador Sanders. But he does end up with the
Cleveland Browns about I don't know, one hundred and twenty
four picks later. Then a lot of people expected him
to be drafted. So he goes to the Browns in
the fifth round of pick one.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Four and so.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
One of the unfortunate storylines that was attached to this
whole Shador Sanders circus over the weekend was the fact
that he was prank called. Uh so Friday night or
excuse me, Thursday night, he received a prank call from
somebody saying that, a, it's Mickey Loomis with the Saints,

(26:22):
We're going to be drafting you, and well, let's take
a listen one more.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Time for me.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Let's Mickey Loomis here, jam of the Thanks. How you
doing good? How are you?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Man?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Good?

Speaker 6 (26:35):
I've been waiting on you.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, we have.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
It's been a long waiting man, for sure.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
I'll take you with our next year, right here, man, Yeah, let's.

Speaker 7 (26:46):
All right, but you're gonna have to wait a little
bit longer than that season.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Now, Well, as it turns out, that was actually Jax Olbrick.
If the last name sounds familiar, it's Jeff Olbrick, Falcons
defensive coordinator, former interim coach.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Of the New York Jets.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's his son who apparently his dad's iPad was open,
and he went into his dad's iPad and he gathered
the phone number of Shador Sanders to make the crank
call that you just heard. And I think it's terrible
because this only happened to shad Or Sanders.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Okay, you don't see.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
This happening to anybody else, all right, yeah, you know
you don't see.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
Well, let's first address the obvious, because there's a couple
ways I look at this personally, as having gone through
someone who was drafted. It's a dream, you know, this
is something that players put a lot of time, efforts,
sacrifice into for that moment you get the call, and
that call for many players who get drafted, that's one

(28:05):
of the most memorable moments of their life. So to
have someone do something so immature, so ridiculously stupid, to
take away from that or like impart themselves on someone
else's dream or that moment, it stinks. It stinks all
the way around. So I hate this for Shador and

(28:28):
then every other player that it's happened to, And we'll
get to that in a second. But here's the other
side of the conversation, as dumb as it was, and
Jackson's come out and apologized. I think he called Shador
Sanders too, at least it looked like on social media
to own up to how stupid of a mistake it was.

(28:50):
It's hard for me to say much about it because,
like I've done a ton of prank calls, Like I
used to grow up listening to the Jerky Boys, which,
like anyone who grew up during that area, like you
go find that cassette, tap it in, and if you
had a two hour drive, you'd be listening to Jerky
Boys the entire way there. And it was hilarious. It
was one of the stupidest, most immature things you would
do or listen to, but it was funny. It's just

(29:13):
unfortunate that it's like taking in this moment where it's
such a huge moment for someone like shador again, who
had expectations of going in the first round, who had
expectations going to the second, third round, and really didn't even
get drafted until the fifth. So it was a grueling
process for him. So it's unfortunate that it had to
play out that way, and especially considering it was the

(29:34):
son of a guy wh's a defensive coordator in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
So I want you to be honest here, all right,
and I want you to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing about the truth.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
All right.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, when's the last time Ukraine called somebody?

Speaker 4 (29:49):
It's been a while, But I thought back in this
situation because I try to be self aware enough to
be like, I really can't pass judgment on someone when
like I think I told you, like we had a
car got like egged one night and I was like, yeah,
I really can't say anything here because I did some
juvenile stuff back in the day. Yeah, it's like a
bunch of kids did the TP people's houses. If your

(30:11):
house gets TV, it's like, yeah, you kind of had
that coming. In this instance, I was thinking, like, man,
we made some We had some crank calls back in
the day, and I feel like, I feel like there's
a number of people who probably weren't too excited about
the bit that we were playing. So it's been a
long time. I don't know that we've I don't know
that I've done with since like maybe high school or something.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
But I crank called Andy Furman from the.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Well that's desert, that's deserving well, but I did it
from because he was off.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
It was like a holiday when I.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Was producing their show, him and Mike North and they
were off, and so I was still in the studio,
and so I called him from the studio line because
I knew he would see an eight one eight number
and freak out because he goes into panic mode really easy.
And he answered the phone and I told him I
was Mike Rogers from Clear Channel and I was from

(31:03):
the HR Department, and he said something that was uncomfortable
on the air. He had me on speakerphone. He was
driving to vacation with his family and he started freaking
out and he and I could tell he was nervous.
And Frank Paullock, the old tech producer, was in the studio,
laughing his ass off, and finally I told him who
I was.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
He goes.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
He almost gave me a heart attack. His voice was quiver,
and I realized, man, that's not.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
A nice thing to do at all, because he literally
almost went into convulsions because I crank called him, telling
him I was from the HR Department. But I would say,
that's not quite as mean as calling somebody who's waiting
out for the draft right and trying to get a
trying to get picked, only to hear you know that
it's Jeff Ulbrick's son, which, by the could you met

(31:46):
Jeff Ulbrick, a little bit of a meathead.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
You imagine getting a call from him saying you are
going to.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Call him, buddy, call, I am driving to where my
son's at and beating him. I've got two sons, and
I can promise you like to do something like that
to someone else in that moment. Like again, it's it's
all fun and games in other instances, but not then,
and especially not concidering how confidential the information was that
they found and just how stupid it is for kids

(32:15):
to put stuff on camera and all of that. But
that's beside the point. Can we get to can we
stop with the race baiting, like all the people out
there who want to make this like a racial issue
it is. He wasn't the only one who was prank called,
by the way this draft. Forget last year where Cooper
dejan was prank called. No one wants to talk about that.

(32:36):
Tyler Warren was also prank called. There was a third
player who was actually prank called thirty minutes after he
has gotten drafted and someone told him he was getting traded.
So there's one of a few things happening here. It's
either these numbers are getting out from NFL personnel who
think it's funny, or their kids find it and they're
not locked up as tight as they should be, or

(32:58):
it's just a matter of like some these players numbers
are getting out there. But so how it typically works,
and again, you know this stuff is usually all confidential,
like they get a cell phone the day before if
you're not there at the draft. So I guess the
other thing I'd say, if you want to eliminate this
is go to the draft. Like maybe maybe that's where
we need Robert Stacks music right now. Yeah, maybe maybe

(33:21):
that's what we need right now. This is all like
done by the NFL as a conspiracy theory to try
to get more people to.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Attend the draft. Good call me because if.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
They if you don't want to be preg called, you
better you better attend the draft. You better get there
because that's it's not possible there right, you get your
name announced, they tell you, like, you walk out to
the stage, you're there, you see Roger, you see whoever's
with the team, and then you're being selected. So maybe
this is all behind the scenes effort for the NFL
to actually draft have players at the draft.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
I'm a sucker for conspiracy theories.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
I'm into that one. Let's roll with it, all right,
let's go like that. That's a good one. I'm I'm
and let's see how many people we can convince of that.
But that that's why these crank calls are happening, because
they want more people to go to the draft.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
So they don't have to deal with them.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Man, I mean, they're they're trying their best. It's a
hard sell for some of those kids. Although I do
believe there was a player who went to the draft
this year that was drafted in the fourth round. Is
it like Baron Sorel. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, And he got drafted from out of Texas and
he got drafted and he stayed there the entire time
and then ended up getting drafted by Green Bay, which
was awesome that he got the walk, the celebration, the treatment.
You could tell by the outfit he wore, though he
packed for one night because that was that was kind
of a which suit.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
I don't I don't know that he thought he was
getting drafted day one. I thought he I thought he
thought he was getting drafted day two, and they slid
into the fourth. So I can understand that, but it's
a long way. It'd be a tough sell. And we've
also seen in the past, like teams like New England
who valued Cole Strange as a first round pick. Meanwhile,
you have less sneed and Sean McVay laughing because like, oh,

(35:00):
we looked at that guy the fourth round like he's
having to be there, you know, they're laughing about it,
thinking he could be there on day three. So there's
a wide disparity between what certain teams think and what
they value versus others. And I also think that's going
back to the initial part of the conversation with Shador.
It's one of the reasons why you know, you look
at what these teams value what they look at, Well,
Cleveland's only when it took him in the fifth round,

(35:23):
and they obviously value things differently and see things differently
than a lot of other teams, which at that point
probably either the have a need at a quarterback or
didn't value some of the things that sharedor brings at
that spot. But let's just stop, all right. This isn't
just on Shador. It's not a racial thing. It's happened
to a bunch of players. It's unfortunate, it's immature, but
we're look, it's a bunch of dudes being idiots. And like,

(35:45):
if you're if you think that's gonna stop anytime soon,
you're out of your mind.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Okay, can we get the Unsolved Mysteries music again?

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Please?

Speaker 3 (35:51):
From Robert Stack? I would?

Speaker 2 (35:53):
I think I think it was on racist and here's why,
and it deserves racial tones attached to it.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Shud or Sanders obvious.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
I believe they also Crane called Tyler Warren because they
thought his name.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Was Tyrone racist.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Third, I think they crane called Cooper de Jean because
they thought there's no way there's another white defensive back
in the NFL racist. So I one percent believed that
it was racism attached to.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
It, and I'm gonna got to be racist. Well no,
so put that in your racist pipe and smoke.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it. It's
just it's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, there's no like, come on, man, like I I
get it that that stuff is real. It does exist,
just not there like, that's not like he's he was
the story of the draft, the fact that you know,
Jeff Ulbrick had his iPad out and the sun went
in there and and grabbed it and started making folk.
First of all, why would you release the video? Like

(36:53):
why why would that video come out?

Speaker 4 (36:55):
Because kids are stupid, honestly, Like I still recall camera
phones coming out between my junior and senior year in college.
I mean that's how like I'm dating myself at this point.
And then there was the Facebook, and everyone in school
was like why would I join that? I don't want
people to know what I'm doing. I want my parents
to know what I'm doing. I mean, we had we
had one friend and she she used to always because

(37:19):
they used to broadcast the Masses and Notre Dame on Hallmark,
and I was like, go out, have a great weekend.
But as long as she was upfront, at the upfront
in the pew for mass early morning on Sunday, it
was all good. Like the parents were like, oh, there
she is, she's a mass. She's fine.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
I mean, look, that's you know, it covers everything, it
erases everything, you know.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
Just I don't know about that. I'm just saying I'd
never understand why some of these I mean maybe for clout,
maybe they're trying to think of it because I think
it's it's cool or it's funny to be that guy.
Like there's really no road that leads them to being
someone that's going to be looked upon favorably after that.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, it's also why would you.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Want, like if you're an employer and you're.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Looking into somebody's background, like regardless if you find out
and look, this isn't a crime against humanity, Like it
was a prank and it's all that, but it does
show that you've got clown tendencies like it does show that.
So you know, he apologized, he wrote some long Instagram
post as you mentioned, he called him and they had
a conversation about it and hopefully he learns from it.

(38:23):
But he put his dad in a really difficult spot
like that. That's an uncomfortable spot to be.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
In, and honestly the Falcons for that matter too, because
now they have to reinvent their security system protocol for
all of that information, which is kind of sad you'd
have to do that in the first place, and it's
I mean, the only thing I could think is that
you force all of your employees to keep everything at

(38:49):
the facility and not allow anything that's sensitive material to
leave that building. And that's a space that you're going
to say, well, maybe we don't feel comfortable having our
family members come up and see their dad or visit
with their their kids and stuff in their office because
there's too much sensitive information. So really it's only going
to be harder I was going to say on Jack's

(39:10):
on their family and potentially other coaches for that matter,
because the selfish, immature acts of one kid, because that's
how you'd lock it down. You just say, okay, you
can't take anything home, and that way this could could
not happen at least in that capacity again, where you
have to have anything that they know pop in the
office and see or are able to look at. We
just won't allow them to visit in certain areas, and

(39:31):
we won't allow them to take home an iPad work
from home. You have to come in the office more.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
By the way, where there's certain businesses you would prank call,
like would you call like grocery stores or restaurants or
pizza places, Like what was the protocol there when you
guys are slack?

Speaker 4 (39:46):
Yeah, pizza pizza places were like pretty like low hanging
fruit for that. There was times you call like you
want to say, this is so bad and this isn't
even all my doing.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
This is like my voices.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
By the way, Lee worked at a pizza place before
he gave the Fox Sports radio that tells you anything.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah, Lee, did you ever get any frank uh calling
you up ordering a certain type of pizza?

Speaker 7 (40:11):
Yeah, there's some Shenanigan's probably some stuff that went over
my head at the time. I do remember those are
actual orders, Yeah, yeah, I do remember one prank call
here at the station, though, I was working with Sam
Pteese on the Loose Cannons. I was an intern, I
was fresh, I was fresh off the boat, and I
got loose Cannons Loose Cannons with Patt O'Brien and Steve Hartman.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
I don't know, and uh yeah.

Speaker 7 (40:35):
I was the call screener as an intern, and I
got a call on the hotline and Sam had had
to leave the studio to do something else, so he
told me, He's like, hey, there's an expected call on
the hotline. It's going to be really important call. I
can't tell you who it is. And serendipitously, Rog Groves,
another famous producer here at the network, called and he
would do this often, would pretend to be somebody. So
he pretended he was to Shawn Jackson because he knew

(40:57):
Sam was a big Eagles fan.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Because I was just blash, yeah exactly.

Speaker 7 (41:03):
So I ran down the hall was like, hey, Sam,
Deshaun Jackson's on the phone, and Sam like took my
word for it, almost put him on air, and then
he looked, he double checked and looked at me like
I was an idiot, which was ra dude.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Oh that's great. No, there was there's a few others
that that man, and it was it was also it
was not only my own doing, but someone was on
Originally you're trying to like replay the Jerky Boys, you know,
some of their calls, if you could get that going.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Man, My my buddy and I one night, we there
was nothing to do. We had no lives, so we
went to my house and we were just sitting at
my mom's house. We're in my room and we're drinking
and we just started prank calling QBC. So they would
have these items that would go up for sale and
he would call on his phone. He would call because

(41:54):
we didn't have cell phone, so he would call on
one house line, and then I would call on my
house line and we would say yea, yeah, yea, I'll
give you, I'll give you this much to see the
price go up on the screen. And then he would
call and the price would go up, and then finally
the QBC operators are like, hey.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Man, you guys really need to get an effing life.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
And you hang up and the prices all shot back
down like forty bucks, and we were dying. My mom
comes to the room and she's like, what are you
guys doing? And we tell her, She's like, why, Like,
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I know, we have we
have no life.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
What do you want from us?

Speaker 2 (42:30):
But yeah, nobody was harmed, so I think everybody should
be should be all good.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Now.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, Fox Sports Radio,
Brady Quinn, Jonas Knox with you here. No LaVar Arrington,
and he's gone. No LaVar Arrington, he's not here for today. Yeah,
Fore he'll be back tomorrow to ant for his awful
take on the Golden State Warriors.

Speaker 5 (43:03):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
So that'll be uh, it'll be a fun.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Noway, let me ask this though, you guys to weigh
in on this. So, if Jimmy Butler comes back tonight
and they lose, would that make us take even worse?
I mean, obviously, if they win without Jimmy Butler and
go up three to one in the series, that only
proves the point that he was absolutely dead wrong. Yeah,
dead ass wrong. But if Butler comes back and they

(43:29):
lose with him, would that equally kind of prove that,
I don't know, maybe he's he's not the best to
have him back, if he's not one hundred percent or
whatever the case.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Maybe yeah, because he was trying to point out that
he was really the lynchpin to their success, like he
was the guy like he like if they were if
they were gonna go anywhere, it was gonna because of
Jimmy Butler. And you can make an argument, in fact,
we will make the argument that if they lose tonight,
they were better.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Off without Jimmy Butler, right, Like, that'll be.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
That would that would be for our listeners out there
who love when we rip on LeVar, that would be
one or two things has to happen for us to
have fun tomorrow. It's gonna be Golden State winning without
Jimmy Butler playing, Golden State losing with Jimmy Butler playing.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Oh, we've really hedged our bets here. We can't lose. No,
we can't great.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
Oh I don't know about that. I mean, we can lose,
but we're hoping that Golden State does one of the
one of those two things. That's what we're hoping for
if we want to have fun tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Morning, it's gonna be That'll be a fun discussion to
have with Lebar when it comes back.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Hopefully he takes it well.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
It is two pros and a cup of Joe here
on Fox Sports Radio. And somebody who that's probably a
smart play, somebody who you know didn't have a great weekend.
The one and only mel Kiper Junior, who was outraged
at the drop of Shodoor Sanders. He had him number

(44:52):
twenty on his big board and as should or, Sanders
ended up going number one forty four. So based on
his project and where he went, he missed by it
to smidge over one hundred and twenty spots for Shador Sanders,
and so mel Kiper, who was having meltdowns throughout the
first two days of the draft because he couldn't believe

(45:14):
that Shador Sanders had slipped. When he finally did get
drafted on Saturday at pick number one forty four, mel
Kiper on ESPN wanted to point out the real issue
when it comes to drafting quarterbacks in the NFL.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
The NFL has been fluidd for fifty years when it
comes to evaluating quarterback clueless all that no idea what
they're doing in terms of evaluating quarterback. That's proof.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
There's proof of that.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Man, we know exactly what we're talking about with quarterback.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
They don't.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
So there's NFL scout and GM and a quarterback evaluator
and coach, mel Kiper Junior breaking down the issues with
quarterback playing in the NFL and evaluation.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
So let me just say this, because he became he
went viral, it became very polarizing where people were either
on mel Kuiper's side of this and how they see this,
or people tend to decide with Rhys Davis. So I
think kind of took almost a stance against him a bit,
even Lewis Riddick for that matter, who obviously has been
in NFL front offices. And so let me just try

(46:19):
to paint the full picture here. So for those who
don't know who mel Kuiper is, which I would say,
he to me is synonymous with the NFL draft. Yes,
whether that's right, wrong, or indifferent, Okay, Like I know
that at no point in his life has he ever
played professional football, coached professional football, not even for college
for that matter, at either one of those, or worked

(46:42):
in an NFL front office. None of it right, Which
is largely what most like TV networks look for when
they're trying to build a case for credibility, because they
feel like viewers at home, okay, want to be able
to hear from someone who's been in those shoes, who's
been there, done that, Right, That's kind of how it works.
Like look at who calls games for the most part. Now,

(47:03):
there's there's a few exceptions to that. I mean, Tony
Romeos never played in the Super Bowl. He's called super bowls,
So there's an example of that. Like there's other examples
of that too, I think that have played it itself out,
but it's beside the point. Mel Kiper's inn an unbelievable
job of positioning himself at a time where the draft

(47:25):
was really just starting to kind of gain momentum. I mean,
he's a guy who at a young age created mel
Kiper Enterprises while he was in college. It's specifically to
evaluate college football players, which is kind of nuts when
you think about it, but also incredible to think he
was able to do that. And I believe he joined
ESPN as a draft analyst back in nineteen eighty four,

(47:49):
you know, doing extensive research and scouting and evaluation. So
you know, guys like Earni A. Corsi, who has a
lot of credibility within the NFL. NFL circle, they kind
of said, like, Hey, this guy is someone that you
guys should bring on, some of you guys should listen to.
And so he's had some polarizing moments. Do we want
to play that polarizing moment now?

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Ly?

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Bill Tobin Colts GM mel Kuiper nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Take it away, Bill.

Speaker 8 (48:17):
You know, we got a guy up there, who in
the hell is mel Kuiper in a way? I mean,
here's a guy that criticizes everybody, whoever they take. He's
got the answers to who you should take and who
you shouldn't take. In my knowledge of him, he's never
ever put on a jockstrap. He's never been a coach,
he's never been a scout, he's never been an administrator,
and all of a sudden he's an expert. He's in
our papers two days ago telling us who we have

(48:39):
to take. We don't have to take anybody that mel
Kuiper says we have to take. Mel Kuiper has no
more credentials to do what he's doing than my neighbor
and my neighbor's a postman and he doesn't even have season.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
Take us to the NFL.

Speaker 8 (48:51):
Kiper Well Tobin obviously not going out to dinner tonight.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
Well, Chris, I'll tell you I'm secure in my position obviously,
Bill tob but is not very secure in his position.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
To me, it's a mistake.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
You cannot go with Jim Harball and pass up Trent Pilford,
forget it.

Speaker 5 (49:06):
That's why the cults are the laughing stock of the.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Leg year in and year out.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
So there you go. That's one snippet really where mel
Kuiper started to gain kind of some momentum. But I mean,
say what you want in regards to his lack of experience,
He's a fixture in what is it made for TV
event and so whether or not you like him or
don't or respect him or it doesn't matter. He's He's

(49:31):
part of the NFL draft evaluation process. He has been,
always will be. So you know he's up there defending
and trying to provide some insight as to what he
thinks or where he thinks a player like Shador Sanders
should go. That's part of the TV. It's part of
the reality TV that we talk about. Here's why I
think he's wrong. Okay, it's not that NFL franchises always

(49:54):
get the evaluation of the player wrong. I don't think
that that's the case. They do their research, they do
their due diligence. They are in many cases leaving no
stone unturned. It's not what happens to quarterbacks from the
college level as far as the MISA, you know, evaluating them.
It's what happens once they get there. What happens once

(50:16):
they get there is NFL teams who make the selection
of these quarterbacks do not provide them with the environment
they need to actually help them excel. In many cases,
teams will draft a player, and this is by and large,
this is not just quarterbacks. To this is most players.
Bad organizations will draft a player, they'll plug him in.

(50:38):
They'll be like, all right, let's throw them in the
deep en. Let's see if you can swim and look.
Maybe maybe some people feel like, well that's how it
should be. But most players need a degree of development.
Some are faster learners than others, some aren't. Some are
late bloomers, some are So I would say, by and large,

(50:58):
it's not so much misevaluation by NFL franchises. To me,
it's the lack of so many things that go into
making a player, even a quarterback, good stability, consistency. I
always tell people, it's hard when you have to learn
a new offense every other year. It's it's hard to
do that. It's hard when teams can't stick with a

(51:21):
player through adversity and allow him not only to build
from that adversity too, instead of kicking him out or
throwing them on the bench and saying I'm like, yeah,
you can't go out there and make mistakes. We can't
afford that. Okay, Well, if I can't do that, then
I can't play in a manner that's aggressive because I'm
always gonna be worried about making a mistake. You know.

(51:43):
They can't see through sometimes injuries that take place and
say what's on the other side, because there's no patience.
So more often than not, it's not the misdiagnosis or
analysis of what a player is. It's the fumbling of
that player once they get him, because they don't have
the type of situation and circumstance within that organization to

(52:03):
provide with any sort of stability or consistency with that
scheme offensively or defensively, a coaching staff and people who
are advocates for that player. Some of the worst teams
always have the most turnover at the front office and
coaching positions. It's one of the and usually that comes
from a top because the owner doesn't have thick skin

(52:25):
and they can't take the fact that, like, hey, you
made the decision to hire these guys, Now give them
three four years to get through it and see what
you can make make them out to be. On the
other side, Now they fire them after a year, they
fire them after two years. The team's roddle with injuries,
so they have a bad season and all of a sudden,
that doesn't factor into the evaluation of what happened To
give that coach give that team another year. Happens all

(52:46):
the time. So that's where to me, he got this wrong.
And I know that's kind of strang away from the
Chador Sanders conversation, which is why we even talking about
milkiper Junior in the first place. But that's the one
thing I'll take except and unfortunately for Shador again we
talked about this earlier. He's going to a place where
I have no idea what Cleveland's doing at the quarterback

(53:08):
spot outside of basically throwing a bunch of hooks in
the water and saying one of them's got a bite, Yeah,
like like one of these has to We're gonna catch
a fitch with one of these rights the.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Deadliest catch in Cleveland. You know, just throw a giant
crate in there and see if you can get a
bunch of crab. Why not, you know, throw it out
there and see who wins at the end of the year.
Like the issue I have with and to your point,
respect to mel kiper Junior who's been doing it for
a long ass time and to do it for as
long as he's done it on television and to really

(53:38):
attach himself to that, to have the foresight to go
that's that's something I want to be a part of. Listen,
He's been successful, he's been there for a really long
time for a reason and generally does a pretty good job.
But like it's called a mock draft for a reason.
It's not real. Anybody could do a mock draft. You

(53:59):
did one, and I did a bottom ten mock draft.
Anybody could do a mock draft. It's all a crap shoot.
Nobody saw Jacksonville trading up to two and Cleveland trading
back and then taking Mason Graham and Jacksonville ending up
with with Travis Hunt.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Like nobody saw that.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
And apparently that deal had been in the works for
a week or so and they had kind of the
parameters of the deal, but nobody really saw it. Like
nobody had that on their board. It's a mock draft
for him to be as outraged as he was. And then, first, dude, relax,
You're gonna get stuff wrong. There's nothing wrong with that.
It's okay to just acknowledge, Hey, I screwed up. I

(54:36):
got that wrong, and you move on with your life.
Nobody's gonna hold it against you. But there's also the
to your point calling out the NFL that you don't
know this and and you've missed it for this many years,
et cetera, et cetera. When you and I first started
doing shows together, I remember the first call wait, which,
by the way, when I got paired up with you,
one of the real low points in my career. Like,

(54:56):
I gotta be honest with you.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
But really, yeah, when you do it, you wait, when
you and I got together.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
You're doing overnights when I'm met.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah listen.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
For first of all, that's morning drive in Bangladesh and
you know that. But when you and I got together,
one of the first things I told you was, Hey,
just see you know, like when it comes to football,
I'm never going to pretend or talk to you as
if I know more than you, because I don't. I
can I can have analysis on stuff, I can have

(55:26):
commentary on stuff. I can have you know, information on stuff.
I haven't been in the meeting rooms at the college
level or the NFL level A level. I played high
school football. I was terrible and we sucked out loud.
I don't know how we made the playoffs. We made
it was it was awful. But I've never been in
a college meeting room. I've never been in an NFL

(55:46):
meeting room. I've never talked with coaches and scouts and
had that. Unless you've done that, you don't have the
ability to understand it the way you guys do. And
it's disrespectful for people on the outside to try and
sit there and talk in a way that would say
I know more than you. You guys are always screwing
it up.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
You don't.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
And I've told you this before the people in the
media get really sensitive when they haven't played the game.
When an athlete drops the well, you never play the game.
And the reason they get sensitive to it is because
it's true.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
There's a certain.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Amount of knowledge that you have that we will never have.
And I think when mel Kiper takes the approach that
they've been screwing this up for fifty years, they've been okay,
So Kyle Shanahan doesn't know how to handle quarterbacks, Sean
mcvayh doesn't know how to handle quarterbacks. Andy Reid has
no experience with quarterbacks. But you're the one who's going
to tell everybody how they got it right and how

(56:44):
they got it wrong. That's the part that bothered me,
is him trying to speak on the outside about how
you should do things when he's never had any experience
inside the building. It just doesn't add up to me.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
No, And again I can give that perspective too, because
there's people out there who watch it, and maybe they
watch because they like to watch and disagree with mel Kiper.
They like to try to have a different opinion of
mel Kuiper. It felt like, again we're talking about the
opportunity to go play football as a professional athlete. I
mean you can have an impassioned take for a player

(57:20):
and feel like, hey, he was robbed bas on his talent.
And I'll be honest with you again, I don't have
the research and I don't have the insight as to
the interviews outside of what's reported. Okay, so when I
hear stuff like, for example, you brought up earlier the
report from Todd McShay saying that Shade or Sanders went
into Brian Dables' meetings and they had gave him an

(57:42):
install packet beforehand. And just so people understand how this works.
When you go in for a meeting with a team,
they're going to test you mentally in a few different ways.
And I have played for Brian Dable in two different stops.
Brian Dables a very smart coach and he wants you
to know the offense like the back of your hand.
He taught me a lot about football and full just
I love Brian Dable. He's gonna be hard on you

(58:03):
though mentally specifically as a quarterback, to make sure you
are prepared. And what he does with his system is
he equips you with a toolbox. And I've honestly like
applied this to life. Whereas when you go out you
have answers to fix something if it's wrong out there
in the field. But if you're not prepared and if
you don't know the offense, you can't use those tools. Okay,

(58:26):
So what most likely happened, and this probably happened in
two different ways. They sent him a packet beforehand to
look at an install packet, and what they're trying to
test in this case is how fast you can get
down an offense to be able to then regurgitate that.
And again, the reason why the Giants are doing this
and then obviously they felt more comfortable Jackson Dart is

(58:46):
because Jackson Darts probably gonna start in play. And so
they have to test you on how fast you could
take an install and go out there and then apply
it onto the field, because as an NFL quarterback, you're
asked to do that. You get an install on when
you go out, you're practicing it right away and you're
going up against the looks you're going to see, and
some of the stuff could be completely new to you.

(59:07):
It might be a new concept that you've never installed
an OTA's mini camp or training camp. So you have
to be able to have that in the back of
your mind what you're doing now, be able to regurgitate that,
have full command of the offense when you go out
there on the field to go practice it, and eventually
that day coming up in the game and they're testing
you on that. So if Shadoor Sanders got this packet

(59:27):
and he didn't study it and he didn't really care
to learn it know about it, and when he was
testing on it, he didn't show any effort whatsoever to
do it, or it didn't look like he had studied it,
I could see Brian Dabele getting on him because every
other quarterback that they brought in for workouts and for
visits that they did that with, I'm sure it came
prepared and I'm sure it took a different approach to it.

(59:48):
I mean I remember being on dry race dry race
board sessions when Brian Dable first got to Cleveland, and
he would test us because we had so many shifts,
so many emotions. That was one category. Because of what
you're trying to do is you're trying to learn the offense.
So it's almost like they're a teacher and they're trying
to you know, basically segue a segment into like how

(01:00:08):
you're going to learn the offense. So you have like
a single man rou combination, two man ral combinations, three
man ral combinations, and you have, you know, all five
eligible receiver concepts, and so you would have to memorize
every single one of those within the offense and list
them off. Then you'd have shifts, motions, formations. You have
to lift list every single one of those off, and
we would literally be sitting. Then this is upon like

(01:00:29):
immediate like trying to you know, do the install learn
the offense and saying how fast who could be the
fastest and listen them all off or have a certain
amount of time like sixty seconds to go right as
many as you could have all of it. And because
that's what it's testing you on, they're putting pressure on you.
They're saying how you compete, They're saying how you memorize
and then can reapply all this stuff so when you
get out there are on the field, you're not thinking,

(01:00:50):
you're just playing. And that's one way in which they
test quarterbacks. And if the reports are true that he
wasn't giving effort, he wasn't prepared, he wasn't, well, all right,
how's it gonna take it? Once he's on a team, then,
I mean, this is an interview process. You should be nervous.
You should be anxious. I should feel like I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Have enough time to do this on your best behavior, right,
like right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
Like that's how you should be. I remember being at
the combine dressing up for interviews with teams and guys
be like, why are you dressing up? I'm like, dude,
this is an interview, Like like, I want to look
I want to look professional, look presentable. Like you could
do the same thing. There's no difference between us, Like
you could have done the same thing too, but you
decided to wear sweats and you decided to you know,
I maybe in some cases wear headphones. Right, that was

(01:01:34):
one of the things that came out. Or he took
a FaceTime you know, video or turning an interview like
we had cell phones back then. You didn't dare bring
it at any point in time ever into a meeting,
let alone answer it. So is there a chance that
because he rubbed so many teams the wrong way with
the way he interviewed and the way he conducted himself,
that he dropped yeah, yeah, maybe maybe that's real because

(01:01:57):
when I watched the tape, I don't him as a
fifth round pick or fifth round talent. I know other
people will argue, hey doesn't have the arm strength to
whatever else. You don't have to have the strongest rong
to play in the NFL. He can layer throws, He's
an accurate passer. Does he hold onto the ball too long? Sure?
You know, does he take off and run when he
probably should? Or could he work on that part of

(01:02:17):
his game? I'm sure, but I don't see him as
a fifth round talent. Now I don't know I saw
him as a first round talent either, but that was
maybe for a lot of the quarterbacks in this draft.
So again, for mel Kiper, it takes such a strong stance.
It felt like there was more behind it than just
defending his mock or defending his opinion. It's almost like

(01:02:38):
he was motivated to to somebody. I mean, look, it
made for great TV, But I do think he's misdiagnosing
where NFL teams or they do it wrong, not get
it wrong. Where they do it wrong, it's not their evaluation.
They evaluate you know, people in personnel, they understand it
better than anyone else, or they misses how they then
get those guys and develop them. There's not enough time

(01:02:59):
spent on that, and that's where teams mess it up.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Like and we've talked to Pete Prisco about this as
well too, and we would ask him this during the
course of the season, like, you know, Pete, which which
pick did you make that you were on the right
side of it it didn't go well, which is a
more elaborate, more elaborate way of saying, my pick was wrong,
but it's not my fault.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
They screwed up.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
It's like, no, you screwed up. It's it's not them,
it's you. And I do it as well too, but
I acknowledge, Yeah, I'm being a little.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Bit of a wise ass. It's like man like, no, like,
not everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
It's not like four or five teams passed on him.
Everybody passed on him, including the Browns and took another
quarterback over him. There's got to be something to it, Like,
it's not like when that many it's like the Deshaun
Watson accusations.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Like really, they're they're all lying, like all of them
got it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Like, no, you it would point to your evaluation was
wrong and you to get his worked up and hot
and bothered about it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
I don't know if he had money on it. I
don't know what it was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
But christ Man, relax, I know, I know, and you know,
to go in if he had had, you know, and
done what maybe John Gruden had done with someone, which
I did. Did John Gruden do a quarterback thing? What
should do? I don't think so, which is odd, right,
Like so many other quarterbacks did Jackson Dart did. I
don't know that. Cam Woarred did, quin Youwers did? Quinn
Yours did? Will Howard did? I mean, there's a number

(01:04:32):
Riley Leonard did, and that's you know. I guess you
could say it's a risk to do it, but I
gotta be honest with you. I feel like it's not
a risk at all in the sense of I think
John Gruden builds a lot of those guys up, and
a lot of what you see that comes out on
social media, comes out on TV is positive more than
anything else. So I don't really understand the risk of that.

(01:04:53):
And there's a number of players that dropped in this
draft who decided not to work out in any capacity
or not run a forty like Will Johnson the out
saying quarterback out of Michigan end up going to what
the second round? Yeah, and he's a player that was
like that dude right there, that's a first round talent
player Like that guy can be a lockdown cornerback. Now,

(01:05:14):
I don't know that he did everything, and some people
say it was injury related. Some people there's other players
that it wasn't. They just chose not to. And this
was a Marvin Harrison junior thing that started where you know,
you weren't going to do everything because the tape was
so good. What else do you need to evaluate on? Well, okay,
that's fine, But then don't get upset if you drop
in the draft when your competition is doing everything when
they go to these formal interviews and everything else that

(01:05:36):
you're a part of. Like when I slid in the
draft and you know, the Dolphins are at nine, it's
kind of where we thought we're gonna end up, and
we've talked about kind of that scenario. But you know,
I went down to the Senior Bowl just for a day,
just to say hi and meet people because I knew
at that time I wasn't going to plan I wasn't
physically able to with my knee from our bowl game.

(01:05:56):
You know, I went to the Combine. I did everything
that I could do at the combine time there, and
when I was done, you know, headed out, I was
I was going to try to throw at the Pro Day,
try to give myself another week to heal up so
my knee felt better, a little more stable, and then
I eventually was going to test for everyone a month later,
which I still wasn't one hundred percent, but it was
like as good as I was going to be before
the draft. So that's all you really could do. That's

(01:06:17):
why it was abnormal for us to have the two
proteins we did that year. We basically had two and
that was why. But we just didn't advertise. I didn't
want people to know that I hurt my knee. I was.
I was worried about the perception of that. So, you know,
you there's there's a bunch of different reasons why guys
do or don't do things, but more often than not,
it's like agents getting in their ear telling like, oh,

(01:06:38):
you don't need to you're solidified in this, or you're
doing that. It's like, no, it's a competition. It's an interview.
I mean, if you can do all you can to
put your best foot forward, and I just I don't
know that that was the case with Shador Sanders, and
people will say, well, like oh, they just don't like
it as confidence and the don't know how it carries himself.
I'm like, okay, but stop. There's there's other players and

(01:06:59):
guys too confident, how they care themselves, how they taught.
Cam Ward is one of the most you know, confident
young men you'll be around. You can see it, and
how he plays, you can see how he could you know,
carries himself. But he's all about ball. He keeps the
main thing the main thing. And I don't know that
people have concerns about that with Shador, Like is football
everything to him? If it is, it feels like when

(01:07:20):
you're trying to launch a brand legendary during the NFL
Draft that like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
It's not as much of a priority for you in
that sense. I mean, did you see Will Campbell, Like
that was a guy. If anybody was criticized and judged
for physical deficiencies before the draft, they basically said to
people he was a t Rex going into the draft.
He gets drafted and this is a big ass, top
offensive lineman in the draft who played at a high

(01:07:47):
level throughout his career, and he was weeping on stage
because he was so happy. Like that's a guy you
look at and go, all right, that really meant a
lot to him. And so I just think there is
something like Cam Scataboove like when he finally got drafted,
Like there's there is something to that. And you know,
I think you'd mentioned Jay Glazer pointed that out, that
that's one of the other things, you know, the off

(01:08:07):
field traits that people look at. You know, do you
love football? And it's a fair question to ask. And
so now he's gonna be in Cleveland with your brownies
in a in a jam pack quarterback room. By the way,
that's a reality show. Somebody get a game around that
quarterback room.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
I just I'm really curious to see how they divide
up reps. Like I just I've said this all along.
You're not preparing anyone. If you're trying to prepare four
guys to see who the starter is gonna be and
they go in and do it. It's just I've never
been a fan of it. It's a recipe for disaster.
You need to have one voice. I mean, it's one
of the reasons why that. Like the Giants took Jackson

(01:08:46):
Dart trade up in the first round and they announced
that Russell Wilson's our starter. Like there, it's a clear communication.
It's clear to every in the locker room, this is
our guy until we tell you he's not. And that
make that could happen during the course of the season,
could happen through injured, could happen in a bunch of
different ways. But until he's not, Russell Wilson's the starter.
Jackson Dart is the future. Jameis Winston will come if

(01:09:07):
there's injuries, something else that needs to take place. He's
very capable. That organization is it's much more clear cut
what they're playing is a quarterback than the Cleveland Browns
right now, and that sets you up when there's lack
of clarity for a disastrous season. I'll just put it
that way.