July 8, 2025 • 38 mins
Brian Noe & Geoff Schwartz fill in for the guys and talk about Mike Brown being introduced as a "championship caliber" coach for the Knicks, the Pacers confirming that Tyrese Haliburton will not play at all next season, NFL rule changes, and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Arings and Rady Winn and Jonas Knox
on Fox four Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, we come with a good news to start
off here. Now, Jeff, We've done radio for quite a while,
and so I've gotten to know you over the years,
and I'm ninety nine point nine percent sure that you
are not a New York Knicks fan. Is that correct?
Do I?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm not a New York Knicks fan. That's correct.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Okay, Well, you're in luck this morning, because if you were,
I would have some bad news for you. Oh no, yeah.
The bad news I would have for you if you
were a Knicks fan is that your team, who hadn't
been to the Eastern Conference Finals in a quarter of
a century. Though they fired Tom Thibodeaux, they kicked him
to the curb. Then they had the oddest coaching search
(00:53):
probably of all time, and then they ended up officially
hiring Mike Brown on Monday as new head coach. I
would anticipate you, as a diehard Knicks fan, would not
be elated with any of these things that went down.
But that's exactly what went down with the Knicks and
here they are with Mike Brown and what is his
(01:14):
what fifth job? He's been fired numerous times and yet
the Knicks, man, this is the thing, Jeff. The statement
they put out. This is their president, Leon Rose. He
put out this statement just maybe it's me, maybe I'm
too critical here, but to me, this is just reeks
(01:34):
of desperation. This reeks of like the kids would say,
being thirsty.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So this is Leon Rose. The statement he put out
after a thorough and extensive search process. That is a
very positive way to describe it. We are pleased to
announce Mike Brown as the head coach of the New
York Knicks. Mike has coached on the biggest stages in
our sport and bring championship pedigree to our organization. That's
(02:04):
part of the statement from Leon Rose. Now here's the thing, Jeff.
But he got canned left and right as a head coach. Yes,
he was an assistant coach with the Warriors and the Spurs,
and he has multiple championships as an assistant coach. But
it's like, if you're the Knicks, that's what you're clinging
on to. I know that you want to get there
(02:26):
and you want to reach the promised land and win
a championship. But this is what you're banking on is
Mike Brown as an assistant coach under Steve Kerr under Popovich,
and he's winning titles with the Warriors with like KD
and Company. You think that's Mike Brown. His fingerprints are
all over those titles. Do you think they don't win
(02:47):
titles without Mike Brown?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Like?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
What are we doing here? I think it's just such
desperate thinking where you're just trying to shoehorn success into
your own building. And this is how you're trying to
do it.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So when good morning, first of all, good morning Schwartzna
kid might be might I might lose a sport? By
the way, this is the kid might be might be
over the w will find out okay with with the
under with an under an eleven thirty game today? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, So when.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
When I look in my personal life to upgrade something
right or get rid of something like I'm actually right
now looking at some kitchen utensils I mentioned yesterday, and
my kids are at camp for a month, so you
have to find something to do, and I'm going to
turn to cooking because I'm fat and I like to
eat and I'm going to upgrade semi kitchen utensils, and
(03:40):
I take a while to find to get rid of
something that I have and find something new. And the
goal when I when I just find in my own
personal life, just in just kitchen utensils. Right, I think
that's the way we all operate is you want to
find an upgrade. So if I fire a kitchen tool,
I want to find a better kick to Right, I
(04:01):
spent a couple of days Today's Prime Day or whatever
for a couple I'm gonna I'm gonna scour the internet
today and look for products to upgrade my kitchen supply.
But I go into it knowing that I have to
upgrade the product i'm finding, Like a knife, let's say,
for example, and I know going into it, if I fire
(04:23):
my current knife, I'm gonna try to find a better knife. Okay, Sure,
that's the way hiring and firing for head coaches should
happen in all sports leagues. Right, you fire coach, you
upgrade to the next coach. But before you fire that coach,
you do the background checks. The background work, you call
agents to see who's available to upgrade that coach. Right,
(04:46):
The Knicks apparently did none of this. They rush to
fire Tom Thibodeau, who may look I buy the argument
that maybe his message had gone stale. Right, he's a grinder.
He works his guys too hard, you know, after after
he feels like a guy though that it rightfully makes
sense after five years, I believe that, Like they're like,
(05:06):
you know what, too much grinding, right, too much? We're
moving on. But again, Brian, moving on to what to what?
You have to have a plan. It's just what incompetent
teams do. They fire out of emotion, out of in
the moment anger that you didn't be Indiana. Indiana, by
(05:30):
the way, did the same thing to Boston, did the
same thing to Cleveland. Cavaliers, did the same thing the Knicks.
It didn't matter who they played. They almost did it,
by the way to Oklahoma City thunder. If Hallyburn doesn't
get hurt, so they you fired him out of emotion
without a plan, and then you go try to trade
(05:50):
for Jason Kidd. You know, these these things they are
just so silly to me, Like you're not you should
have called Jason k beforehand. Hey, do you want to
come to us first of all? Too? Hey, Mavericks ownership.
Would you trade your coach like you can do all
these things behind the scenes and then figure out a plan.
(06:10):
They had no plan. They by the way, my Lakers
are the same thing before the higher JJ Rennick. They
trying to get Dan Hurley, which wasn't plan at least, right,
at least I'll give you. I'll give you that, Brian.
They at least had a plan, right, But they look silly.
The Nicks looks silly here. Mike Brown is not any
better than Tom Thibodeau. There's just there's just he's not
(06:33):
He's not any better, and maybe he's nicer, and maybe
he's not as as cruel to playing time as you know,
there are things that that I think you might look
at and say to yourself, Okay, well there's some upgrades here,
just personality wise. But when you fire Tom Thibodeau, your
job is to find someone better. And at best it's
(06:53):
a lateral movement. Yeah, and it is a weeks of
competence from the front.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Ill.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
What's you no surprise, But that's that's what we're right
right now.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, that's the thing, is the first part of that
statement from Leon Rose. After a thorough and extensive search process.
That is the happiest description that you could come up with.
It was an embarrassing joke of a process to try
to find the next head coach where they're literally calling
up teams, almost like the old school Yellow Pages, you know, like, hey,
(07:28):
call up the Bulls and see if Billy Donovan's available. Nope, Nope,
they won't allow him to interview with us. It was
just a joke that Quinn Snyder with the the Atlanta Hawks,
and it was just such a weird search. Like you said,
a lot of things could have been done behind the scene,
behind the scenes, and they didn't do that. They just
played out in front of everybody. And they look like
(07:50):
a Mickey Mouse organization. And you're a big I know
this about you too. You're big about process. You know,
when it comes to say sports petting, if your process
is good, sometimes you get a bad result, you get
a fluky result. But if you stay true to your
process and it's good, eventually the wins will come your way.
(08:11):
Big process guy. It's the same thing with the coaching search.
The process for the Knicks to try to find their
coach was just a calamity. It's like, you know, if
you're at the poker table. You know, you will sometimes
win some hands even though your process was bad. You
might just luck out. And that's the best case scenario
(08:34):
for the Knicks. Their process was terrible. They I don't know,
they went all in with a mediocre starting hand. By
the way, our producer Justin Cooper, while we're talking about poker,
he will have a story of a strong finish in
a Vegas poker tournament later this hour.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Oh, I can't wait. Yesterday he was he was in round.
It was a second second day.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, he was a couple off. He hasn't many different tournaments, right,
but one of the finished fantastic. Yeah, but it'd be
like going all in with like seven ten this weird
mediocre hand, Like, yeah, maybe you were aggressive pre flop,
you just you didn't hit anything on the flop, nothing
on the turn. You're still just firing away. It's like,
(09:21):
that's not a great process and somehow you're expecting or
hoping to wiggle out of that. That's really where the
Knicks are. It's just and at the end of the day,
I don't see how ending on Mike Brown is benefiting
you in any way. This is like you firing all
of your kitchen utensils and replacing them with worse kitchen
(09:45):
kitchen utensils. It's just not benefiting you in any way.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's not. And this is why the Knicks are going
to be the Knicks. And this is a year, by
the way, where you know, it's it's a it's a
great year to try to do something special in right
in in in in that in that in uh in
the Eastern Conference, because the Celtics have punted on the
(10:12):
season right with Ten's injury in their moves, we know,
uh that Indiana is basically not punted. But there they
announced i think last night yesterday, Hollybird's out for the season.
They're just like, he's done, out for the season. We're
not even a rushing back, which is which I think
is actually a very positive sign for a pro sports franchise.
Just understand that that he's he's our guy. Rushing him
(10:36):
back makes no sense to say he's out for the season.
Give him a full look. It maybe comes back to
play the last two weeks of the year. Brian, it's
certainly possible, right, who knows, but like he's just not
just don't don't don't bet on it, right and and
so this is a year in the Eastern Conference where,
like you know, there are teams that got better. I
think Atlanta got better, of course, about Orlando, but you
(10:59):
know those I don't think they're not really Easter Rovert's
Finals winners. The Cow's gonna be good again. But the
Nick's had like of a real chance. But yeah, they do.
I don't know if this coaching change is really going
to make a difference in giving them that chance.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, that's the other interesting thing to me is I
think coaching in today's day and age, certainly in the NBA,
you have to have one of two things going for you, right.
You either have to have management really like you, or
you have to have the players really like you. But
if you're zero for two, you're out of a gig.
I mean, that's just where we are now. I don't know,
(11:37):
it's it sure seems like this is James Dolan. His
fingerprints are all over this. So it doesn't seem like
James Dolan was incredibly fond of Tom Thibodeau. And you
could kind of put two and two together. Tims kind
of roles like I would expect him to roll in
the office, sort of like Bill Belichick. You know, like
Robert Kraft was fine with getting rid of Bill Belichick
(11:59):
after six championships. Jeff, you know, it's not like Belichick
is kissing Robert Kraft's ring. And I can't expect Tom
Thibodeaux to have done the same thing with James Dolan.
You know, it's not like James Dolan shows up in
the office and Tibbs is like, Hey, Jimmy d what's
going on, man, how's the fishing going? Like that's just
(12:20):
not who Tibbs is. He's like, I got stuff to do.
I gotta grind away, I'm watching take Yeah, I don't
have time to talk to you. He seems like he
would probably be like that. And then we had the
reports of the exit interviews with the players and reportedly
won or a couple of players weren't too fond of
playing for TIBs. So you gotta have one of the two.
(12:42):
Either management is on board or the players or are
on board. But if you're zero for two, you're out
of a gig. And that's the thing if you look
at other head coaches. Mike Malone had a lot of
success with the Denver Nuggets. He was out of a
job and the reports came out where there were numerous
players that were miffed. They were disgruntled with how things
were going. Yeah, and it reminded me, while we're talking
(13:04):
New York, Jeff, it reminded me of some old school audio.
So this was a member of the New York Giants.
This is Carl Banks. Remember Carl Banks with Lawrence Taylor
and all those great Giants teams. So he was on
NFL network on America's Game. Right, they chronicle a Super
Bowl winning team season, and this is what Carl Banks
(13:25):
had to say about his head coach, Bill Parcells. Check
this out. This is great.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
That is sort of the relationship Bill had with his players.
He would do something or say something crazy to you.
It affected players differently. I went through a long period
for Parcels and I We literally hated each other for
about an hour a day. I know some players to
this day that just don't like Bill Parcells, but they
(13:51):
played hard for him.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
One of my favorite movies is Training Day with Denzel Washington,
and there's a line in the movie where he goes
that they is dead dog. We don't roll like that
no more. Right, that's where we are with coaching. What
Carl Banks explained with Bill Parcells and players hating this guy,
but they played hard for him. Yeah, that's no longer today.
(14:13):
The players that hate their head coach, they just let
it be known and that coach is most likely out
of a gig. So it's a really interesting thing you
got to do as a current head coach in the NBA.
You got to push your players, You got to hold
them accountable, and you still have to get them to
like you. That is not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's not easy. I thought you were going to the
King Kong line, but I.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Love that one too.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, I know if we're gonna have the mute button
ready to go or the dumb button. I look, I
think you're absolutely rights right. It's a it's a players
run league. You have to be friendly with the players
or the coaches. But sometimes and you mentioned New England,
right like the winning offsets that now they didn't do
the winning in New York and quite the fast and
(15:00):
that I guess maybe they want it, but they want
a lot, Brian. It's not like they didn't win, right like,
they want a lot for what they have been historically.
So you can't make the argument that they didn't win
at the level maybe that they wanted, but they won
more they had won in many, many years. But yeah,
the grind of that eventually gets old, right, And if
(15:21):
the championships and winning don't come, then people do get
tired of it. And you're right, Tims is probably not
coming in there with coffee and donuts every day saying
how was your night? Right, Hey, did you watch the
show last night? He's not doing that. But you also
know that when you hire him, So it shouldn't be
surprised when you don't get that fun, loving guy to
(15:45):
show up in the building every day. But again, it
should off you should offset that feeling with the winning,
like that's what the winning is is sort of for right,
is if you don't like the coach because he's a
little callous, well, the winning should help take care of that.
And obviously at the end it didn't, and they're not
gonna win with Mike Brown in my opinion, so at
(16:06):
least you have a coach. Maybe you like espearcisly the
X interview thing, it's pretty interesting, ye, right, So you know,
ex interviews are what you do as a player right
after season is over, and you do them immediately right
after the scene is over, and a lot of times,
you know, the season doesn't end the way you wanted to.
(16:26):
And you know, not saying they're contentious interviews, but it's like,
maybe not the best time to do them. I do
wonder if if this had been done on a different day,
different time, the actually interviews go a little bit better
for everybody evolved.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah. No, it's a legit statement right there, for sure.
I just think a lot of times, last thing I'll
say is we put x'es and o's like on a
too high of a pedestal. I'm not saying exes and
o's don't matter, they certainly do. But it just talking
about Tibbs, it makes me think of Phil Jackson, you know,
think of Phil jacks and in the success he had
(17:01):
with the Lakers, with the Bulls, winning all those championships
and just managing people, in managing egos, and like crazy
Rodman wants to go to Vegas during the season. You
know how many coaches would not have handled that the
same way. And Phil's like, you know what, let's let
him do it. I think he needs the party and
(17:22):
get this out of his system. There are a lot
of coaches that would never even think about doing that.
That has nothing to do with the triangle and x's
and o's and anything like that. It's managing people. It's
coaching players hard and getting them to still respect you
and like you, because if they don't, they're probably not
going to listen to a word you have to say.
(17:43):
It's such a skill to have.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Hey what's up everybody?
Speaker 4 (18:01):
It's me three time pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and I
couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called Up
on Game?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
What is Up on Game?
Speaker 4 (18:09):
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Zada and Super Bowl champion Yup. That's right, Plexico Burds.
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Speaker 2 (18:21):
Up on Game.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
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Speaker 2 (18:41):
So the Indiana Pacers, Jeff They confirmed Monday that Tyrese
Haliburton will indeed miss the entire twenty twenty five twenty
six season right this after he had surgery on his
right achilles. Not a shocker, right, But I think the
messaging is kind of it. So this is PACER's president
(19:02):
Kevin Pritchard. This is what he said yesterday. His quote is,
I have no doubt that he will be back better
than ever. The surgery went well. He will not play
next year, though, we would not jeopardize that now, so
don't get any hopes up that he will play. I
don't know, maybe it's me, maybe I'm odd here, but
(19:24):
I think that's just a weird statement where it's basically like, hey,
the hope you might have just get that off your
mind right now, not happening. I mean, I don't hate
the messages thing. It's a little bit odd. Maybe I'm
used to these teams. Maybe it's NFL offseason mode and
everybody is in the best shape ever, and man, this rookie,
(19:45):
what I've seen so far Wow, this guy has grasped
the playbook. This guy has taken control. Maybe I'm so
used to that where a PACER's statement where it's like, yeah,
get hope off your mind, immedia. Maybe that's why it
lands a little oddly for.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I mean, it's it's odd to be so forceful about it.
I feel like because a lot of times when we
hear teams talk about players and rehabits, always hope, right
and positivity, and this is just not the case. But
from a practical perspective, I like it. I like just saying, hey, guys,
we're shutting him down. There's no there's no point, Like
why are we going to rush him back for a
(20:26):
season that we've already not not punted on. But we
got rid of Miles Turner as we know, right, Like
you know, we just it's a different We're going to
have a different team, so we're just we're not punting
on the season, but we're letting you know that don't
expect him back. So I appreciate Brian. I think the
honesty there, right. I appreciate the honesty because that's what
(20:46):
they should be thinking. But yeah, most of the time
people teams are like, you know, he's coming back. Guys.
You know, you want to sell tickets, you want to
sell excitement, you want to sell hope, and they just
didn't do that here. So it just feels it's different.
It's that you don't normally hear or we quote like
that from a team. But this is smart. This is
the right decision, right, Let's not rush him back. We
rushed him back from the calf injury. Rushed is the
(21:08):
wrong word. He was it was the funnels. He was
gonna play no matter what. But he's back early. He
got hurt, there's no reason to bring him. But he's
our future of our franchise. Let's wait, let's it looks
he might come back a month early. Never know, but
I think under selling it is always better than over
selling it, and so I appreciate at least that that perspective.
But yes, saying hey guys, no hope, nothing, sorry, don't
(21:31):
don't think about it. Don't just don't think about it.
So I found that, you know, that's that's unique. You
just don't hear that in other sports.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, it'd be like the Titans, like press conference, Hey, uh,
you think he might make the playoffs this year? And whatever?
The head coach or whomever it may be. The GM
is like, uh, you know what, don't get your hopes
up on that. It'd be like what, whoa wow, it
would like blow you away. I'm not listen. I I
(22:02):
just it struck me as a little odd. That's if
they left it at he will not play next year though, Okay,
but he took it a step further, So don't get
any hopes up that he will play. It's like, whoa
pretty strong, but hey, I get it. Shutting him down
is the right move. And I totally agree underselling is
better than over selling, like, hey, maybe maybe he'd be
(22:23):
back for the stretch run if we're in a good
position and blah blah blah. Yeah, I don't think they're
at mishandling it. It's just so different. That's where it's like,
whoa wow. Okay, we're just cutting to the chase right here.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So what makes the NFL so different, as you mentioned
from others, as you have NFL in the mind, is
the NFL sells hope better than another league. Yeah, it's
one of their hallmarks. And the NFL A team would
never put them out like this. No, especially you know
(22:56):
this time of year. The best part about kind of
preparing for the season, for the NFL seasons, just how
everyone thinks they're gonna they're gonna be good this year.
I sounded like four teams And you don't feel that
way in other sports, you really don't, you know, professional
football and look, there's really just a handful team that
he can win the super Bowl, but you never know,
right like you can. Post hockey feels this way sometimes too,
where eight seeds play much better than, you know, than expected.
(23:19):
But the ability for the NFL just to sell this
idea that you know, we're everyone has a chance to
win makes it a very unique league.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Absolutely it does. And this is the other part of
the Halliburton thing. So you saw where Halliburton he posted
on social media that he didn't regret playing in Game
seven and he would do it again and again after that,
and he wrote to fight for this city and my brothers.
And so that's the backdrop where again the president, Kevin Pritchard,
(23:50):
he made this statement and it really caught my attention.
He said, if you're asking me, would I have him
do it over and over? I would not. If I
knew he was going to get hurt, I would sacrifice
that game because I care for the kids so much
and want him to have an incredible career. That's his statement.
And so it just made me think, do you blame
(24:13):
the Pacers at all for letting Halliburton play in Game seven?
I mean, even if it's a I fight, not even
of one percent.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Buddy, this is it's Game seven the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, no, I hear you.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And there's no way that that Holly Burnon would have
been like, yeah, I'm not playing. And he knew the
risk and we all knew. We we we followed the sport.
We see what happens to these achilles injuries. We see
you rush back from a calf injury. I think there's
just no way he wasn't gonna play, and and you
just it's it's unfortunate. Injuries are part of the game,
one hundred percent injury rate. It's it really sucked to
(24:48):
saw him seem on the on the court like that,
just like holy, I mean all it was terrible, But
it was Game seven the NBA Finals. Yeah you're gonna play,
he mentioned back. If he didn't play and they lost
by four, you've been like, what what you would have
a chance to beat.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So, and there's no guarantee he would have gotten hurt. Right,
you lose by four, he doesn't play at all, and
now you wrestle with he. He might have been okay.
He was okay in game six, right, Sure, So it's a.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
It's a tough spot, I think for everyone, right, because
you want to protect your your superstar. You think about
long term. You saw how you know, I think I
don't think it was actually physical pain. I think it
was emotional pain. In the moment that was really hard
to watch to see how just emotionally. You know how
upset he was after the injury. And you know Achilles injuries.
(25:41):
I've been fortunately not have one, but you know the
signs are always there. And I think that it's pretty
easy to tell when a guy has an Achilles injury
and players know that as well. You feel that snap
right unfortunately of of the hegue, so you know what
it is immediately, So there's no like So again as
a player, you know how long that rehab is. You
see other people in the league and then so in
(26:02):
that moment, that's why he was so distraught. And sure
you feel but I am like the least emotional person ever,
Like I just maybe I just don't feel much. Sometimes
I probably should feel more.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I need to watch more rom comms.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I watched a ton of rom comms. I'm just very
like matter of fact, I think a lot of times
and I but I felt emotional watching Holli Booker. I
was like, oh, I was like, oh, jeez, a poor guy.
Maybe because I was so hurt in my NFL career
and I did nothing to like deserves by the wrong word.
But like just I just always got hurt, and just
I just got used to just numb with injuries. I
(26:38):
just never affects me anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, I think with if anybody's second guessing Halliburton playing
in game seven, my rule is this, Jeff, you need
to be first guessing in order to be second guessing.
Anybody can say after he gets hurt in game seven,
like you should have been out there in the first place.
It's like, well, that's easy, because as you have access
(27:01):
to the results, you need to be first guessing. Before
you have access to the results, you know you needed
to be saying before game six, Haliburton shouldn't be playing
too risk. You should be saying before game seven, Haliburton
shouldn't be out there. It's too risky. If you weren't
saying that that, I don't want to hear correct you
say that once you find out that he snapped his achilles.
(27:23):
That's my own rule. And listen, this is the nature
of sports. It's unfortunate. There was no guarantee he was
going to get hurt. They took a chance. Unfortunately they
got burned. But think about guys like Tarall Owens played
in the Super Bowl, right he played in Super Bowl
thirty nine. That was seven weeks after breaking his leg.
He had torn ligaments in his ankle and the doctors
(27:45):
were like, you shouldn't play in the game, and he
played anyway, and it worked out fine for him. Individually.
He played great, he didn't get hurt worse Like, you
take chances like that all the time in sports and
hope that it doesn't burn you, and every now and
then it does.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Those guys like uh like Terrell Owens, these Hall of
Fame talents, man, I have I have said for years,
and I've played with I think in my career ended
up playing with at least three, and Eli gets in
with anything will four. So Juwis Pepper's Steve Smith will
get it will get if he's not. And yet uh,
(28:25):
Adrian Peterson and Eli Manning and and one thing, you know,
the the three other guys that the non corbacks have
in common is like their ability to just regenerate, like
they these Hall of Fame players, their ability to just
never get hurt or when they get hurt, just regenerate,
like they just get healthier faster. It is it's a
(28:48):
it's a wild thing. I mean, I was there, you know,
in Minnesota and Adrian Peterson played with that sports Turney
when he had two thousand yards rushing. That was the
year I was. I. I had just come off a
Sports Turney injury. I knew I had the surgery months before.
Adrian Pearson had the same and he played every week.
I did not play every week. I had to have
surgery like immediately. It's just these guys are They're built differently, dude.
(29:10):
And so it's kind of wild just to see some
of these Hall of Fame players and their ability to
just remain healthy. And I think it's it's two things.
One it's it's natural. It's just naturally gifted, right they are,
you know, And to their ability to train at a
different level than the rest of us. Dude, I try
(29:30):
as hard as I could. It sometimes didn't even matter,
Like it just didn't matter because the guys are better
than me. It's just what it's genetics to what it is.
And so you know, Hollie Burn, maybe he's one of
these guys that is so good he can recover faster
anyone else, but probably not so in the end, I'm
glad the pagiers at least said that. Right, it's the
same like, hey, guy, just don't worry about it. He's
not going to come back this year. Focus on, you know,
(29:51):
on something else.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt, and hopefully it will be as
quick of a recovery as possible.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Up of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So there have been some rule changes and there have
been some non rule changes. Yeah, okay, So I want
you to vote, if you will, throughout your opinion. Here,
what do you think the most impactful change or non
change will be for this season? Okay, So here are
(30:28):
the choices, and I'll try to go fast because you
might just forget the first couple after I readle off
five of these things. You know, so this is gonna
sound like nothing really, but the virtual tracking system that's
gonna be used to measure down in distances. And you
might think, who cares, all, right, they're replacing the chain gang.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Well well they're actually not though, Well.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's the secondary system, so they're not gonna be used
at all. They're just gonna be hanging out and like
the emergency go basically right, they're not going to be used.
I don't know that they're ever gonna be used. So
it's gonna be this virtual tracking system. And just when
you shrug your shoulders and think that might not make
a difference, well think about that Bills Chiefs game, and
(31:14):
I don't know, maybe the virtual tracking system will make
a difference. And that's a first down for the Bills.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Okay, But okay, here's here's the question I have with
with with that is that I don't think it's gonna
help that much with spot Like it's because you don't
know where it's not helping tell you where someone's down though, right,
It's just it's just telling you where the ball I
think is right. Right, So still, I mean, there's still
(31:42):
some questions I have about the system. But okay, okay,
that's one change.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
That's one. On side kicks, you can you can go
for an on side kick at any point.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
During and not declare. You used to have to declare
the on side kick, right.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, you still do because you have to alert the
opposing team, which sucks. We can't do the the surprise
on s. There's nobody there. Everybody's downfield, correct, you know,
like the old Pat McAfee where he kicked the ten yards.
You can recover it every time. Now there's no one there,
but you have to alert them. So there's that change.
Both teams are now guaranteed at least one possession in overtime.
(32:18):
And then we get to the two biggies. I think
the toush push remains, and then you have touchbacks on
kickoffs the ball be spotted at the thirty five yard
line instead of the thirty Which of those changes are
non changes do you think will be most impactful?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Well, the toush push only really impacts one I mean ego.
I mean some teams don't touch push, like the Chiefs
never touch push. That doesn't impact them at all. No,
the overtime thing is fairly interesting, right, I think, because
how many times have we seen that obviously play a
role and you know, the team's chance to win to
(32:57):
win a game, right, I mean, it seems like these
rules change for the Chiefs seem to win overtime games.
But nonetheless that that feels pretty impactful, you know. So
that what was the other one you mentioned?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I think touchbacks is the big one. So it's ball
spoted at the thirty five. Yeah, so it incentivizes not
kicking the ball through the back of the end zone.
We're gonna see more kickoff returns most likely.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, probably, I would say you're right on that. I
don't think teams ah that five yards. I mean, I
don't know if teams are gonna are gonna risk a
return for five yards of field position.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I think some teams will. Some will say, hey, man,
we're gonna try to kick it as close to the
goal line as possible, and we're gonna rally and we're
our chances are better than not. They're going to stop
you before you reach the thirty five.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
One thing I Brian, that I find it interesting about
the NFL seems obsessed with making the kickoff a thing.
I don't know why. I'm never watching a game, but
you know, I missed the kickoff return, Like just like,
give me the quarterback as soon as possible, you know
what I mean. Like it seems like I don't know
why they're trying to make it. I get it from
maybe an excitement perspective, especially we want to have special teams,
(34:17):
players being involved in the game and whatnot, But otherwise
I don't quite get it. It's there's having returns a
year probably looking up five. Why are we so gong
hole about making sure returns are part of the game now?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, I think it just because it was such a
big part of the game not that long ago. Like
Devin Hester is a Hall of Famer because he was
a great return man. Oh yeah, you know, and there
was a lot of excitement with the play with absolutely
think at Dante Hall and Tamark Vanover for a little while,
I had some interesting, like some exciting returns. And listen,
(34:56):
I get it. The concussion thing, and they're trying they're
always trying to low the numbers. I understand that.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Right, But if you want to lower the number of concussions,
why would you force the kickoff returns?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, they're trying to find the best of both worlds.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Well, I get it.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
If you don't have someone running, you know, forty yards
downfield at full speed and then just by lighting with someone.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
So I every young offensive lineman who's not starting does
kickoff return Yeah right, ye, and I did it in
the day where you do whatever you wanted to do return.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, so you basically what happened is this, we did
the wedge it's called right, where you hold hands together
as a normally three to three to five, two to
five guys, whatever it was. You'd hold hands and you'd
run full speed a defender who is named the wedge buster,
(35:50):
that's right, a guy whose job it was to a
linebacker most often whose job it was to run full
speed and throw their body into the wedge to create
a pot so they couldn't return.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Okay, so you're telling me concussions occurred on places, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Shocking, Right. So what you would do is I would
be in my stands, I'd run back and I'd hold
get to the spot, hold the guy's hand, run full
speed and then you just close your eyes. Yeah, you
just you just boom and just like you're like, oh, well, okay,
survived that one. It's terrible. Look I'm not disagree with
why they got rid of it, but yeah, it was not.
(36:26):
It was not I knew guys would put in. They
put in extra the pasically took a thigh pad or
a knee pad and put it under their shoulder pads
for extra for extra extra support. But it does lead
to fun. I did have one kickoff return in the NFL, Brian,
you did, yeah, sixteen yards?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (36:44):
And uh the worst or best part either one. I
didn't fumble, which is the best part. The worst part
was that someone actually tried to tackle me and got
knocked out and got stretchered off the field.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh now there you're are you talking there?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
So what happened was it was Clifted Smith who actually
got can cussed in a game earlier again were playing.
He got can cussed earlier this season again such as
well on a on a on a pretty vistage vicious
hit on a punt return. He was the punt return
got clear, so he's going to tackle me and he
got het. He got pushed into my leg and like
(37:17):
hitting the side of my my hip got knocked out,
but I don't remember. I was celebrating so much. Uh
that when my uncle called me later that day to
talk about it, he's like, he's like, how's the guy
that that got can cuss and you got carried off?
Excuse me what happened? Yeah, you can. I can send
you to play. You can see it. There's a guy
laying at the bottom of the pile, motionless. It's really
(37:37):
like disturbing to see.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I didn't realize it happened in real time, no idea.
I was so celebrating so hard that I got sixteen yards.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Good job for you.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Made terrible running for him, though not not very.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I don't for a second. You're very slippery. Maybe a
couple of spin moves. I don't buy that at all.
I think they're a top shelf. I've interviewed Clifton Smith many.
I did radio and Fresno. He's a former bulldog. You know,
so Clifton Smith was a good return guy.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah he was.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, but him trying to tackle you, Clifton Smith is
a small guy.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Well, I think he got pushed into my leg, and
if you watch it, I don't think he I think
he got pushed in the back or something, or he
got tripped up. I don't think he was going like
headlong into my leg. Yeah, but knocked out. Yeah not
great man. Yeah, you have an Android phone. If I
sent you the video, it's gonna be all weird.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Jeff hates me because I have an Android phone.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Well, you ruined the text thread.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I'm glad to do it.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I'm very happy to quote unquote ruin the text thread
with my Android ways. You know, it makes me happy.
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Arings and Rady Winn and Jonas Knox
on Fox four Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, we come with a good news to start
off here. Now, Jeff, We've done radio for quite a while,
and so I've gotten to know you over the years,
and I'm ninety nine point nine percent sure that you
are not a New York Knicks fan. Is that correct?
Do I?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm not a New York Knicks fan. That's correct.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Okay, Well, you're in luck this morning, because if you were,
I would have some bad news for you. Oh no, yeah.
The bad news I would have for you if you
were a Knicks fan is that your team, who hadn't
been to the Eastern Conference Finals in a quarter of
a century. Though they fired Tom Thibodeaux, they kicked him
to the curb. Then they had the oddest coaching search
(00:53):
probably of all time, and then they ended up officially
hiring Mike Brown on Monday as new head coach. I
would anticipate you, as a diehard Knicks fan, would not
be elated with any of these things that went down.
But that's exactly what went down with the Knicks and
here they are with Mike Brown and what is his
(01:14):
what fifth job? He's been fired numerous times and yet
the Knicks, man, this is the thing, Jeff. The statement
they put out. This is their president, Leon Rose. He
put out this statement just maybe it's me, maybe I'm
too critical here, but to me, this is just reeks
(01:34):
of desperation. This reeks of like the kids would say,
being thirsty.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So this is Leon Rose. The statement he put out
after a thorough and extensive search process. That is a
very positive way to describe it. We are pleased to
announce Mike Brown as the head coach of the New
York Knicks. Mike has coached on the biggest stages in
our sport and bring championship pedigree to our organization. That's
(02:04):
part of the statement from Leon Rose. Now here's the thing, Jeff.
But he got canned left and right as a head coach. Yes,
he was an assistant coach with the Warriors and the Spurs,
and he has multiple championships as an assistant coach. But
it's like, if you're the Knicks, that's what you're clinging
on to. I know that you want to get there
(02:26):
and you want to reach the promised land and win
a championship. But this is what you're banking on is
Mike Brown as an assistant coach under Steve Kerr under Popovich,
and he's winning titles with the Warriors with like KD
and Company. You think that's Mike Brown. His fingerprints are
all over those titles. Do you think they don't win
(02:47):
titles without Mike Brown?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Like?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
What are we doing here? I think it's just such
desperate thinking where you're just trying to shoehorn success into
your own building. And this is how you're trying to
do it.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So when good morning, first of all, good morning Schwartzna
kid might be might I might lose a sport? By
the way, this is the kid might be might be
over the w will find out okay with with the
under with an under an eleven thirty game today? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, So when.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
When I look in my personal life to upgrade something
right or get rid of something like I'm actually right
now looking at some kitchen utensils I mentioned yesterday, and
my kids are at camp for a month, so you
have to find something to do, and I'm going to
turn to cooking because I'm fat and I like to
eat and I'm going to upgrade semi kitchen utensils, and
(03:40):
I take a while to find to get rid of
something that I have and find something new. And the
goal when I when I just find in my own
personal life, just in just kitchen utensils. Right, I think
that's the way we all operate is you want to
find an upgrade. So if I fire a kitchen tool,
I want to find a better kick to Right, I
(04:01):
spent a couple of days Today's Prime Day or whatever
for a couple I'm gonna I'm gonna scour the internet
today and look for products to upgrade my kitchen supply.
But I go into it knowing that I have to
upgrade the product i'm finding, Like a knife, let's say,
for example, and I know going into it, if I fire
(04:23):
my current knife, I'm gonna try to find a better knife. Okay, Sure,
that's the way hiring and firing for head coaches should
happen in all sports leagues. Right, you fire coach, you
upgrade to the next coach. But before you fire that coach,
you do the background checks. The background work, you call
agents to see who's available to upgrade that coach. Right,
(04:46):
The Knicks apparently did none of this. They rush to
fire Tom Thibodeau, who may look I buy the argument
that maybe his message had gone stale. Right, he's a grinder.
He works his guys too hard, you know, after after
he feels like a guy though that it rightfully makes
sense after five years, I believe that, Like they're like,
(05:06):
you know what, too much grinding, right, too much? We're
moving on. But again, Brian, moving on to what to what?
You have to have a plan. It's just what incompetent
teams do. They fire out of emotion, out of in
the moment anger that you didn't be Indiana. Indiana, by
(05:30):
the way, did the same thing to Boston, did the
same thing to Cleveland. Cavaliers, did the same thing the Knicks.
It didn't matter who they played. They almost did it,
by the way to Oklahoma City thunder. If Hallyburn doesn't
get hurt, so they you fired him out of emotion
without a plan, and then you go try to trade
(05:50):
for Jason Kidd. You know, these these things they are
just so silly to me, Like you're not you should
have called Jason k beforehand. Hey, do you want to
come to us first of all? Too? Hey, Mavericks ownership.
Would you trade your coach like you can do all
these things behind the scenes and then figure out a plan.
(06:10):
They had no plan. They by the way, my Lakers
are the same thing before the higher JJ Rennick. They
trying to get Dan Hurley, which wasn't plan at least, right,
at least I'll give you. I'll give you that, Brian.
They at least had a plan, right, But they look silly.
The Nicks looks silly here. Mike Brown is not any
better than Tom Thibodeau. There's just there's just he's not
(06:33):
He's not any better, and maybe he's nicer, and maybe
he's not as as cruel to playing time as you know,
there are things that that I think you might look
at and say to yourself, Okay, well there's some upgrades here,
just personality wise. But when you fire Tom Thibodeau, your
job is to find someone better. And at best it's
(06:53):
a lateral movement. Yeah, and it is a weeks of
competence from the front.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Ill.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
What's you no surprise, But that's that's what we're right
right now.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, that's the thing, is the first part of that
statement from Leon Rose. After a thorough and extensive search process.
That is the happiest description that you could come up with.
It was an embarrassing joke of a process to try
to find the next head coach where they're literally calling
up teams, almost like the old school Yellow Pages, you know, like, hey,
(07:28):
call up the Bulls and see if Billy Donovan's available. Nope, Nope,
they won't allow him to interview with us. It was
just a joke that Quinn Snyder with the the Atlanta Hawks,
and it was just such a weird search. Like you said,
a lot of things could have been done behind the scene,
behind the scenes, and they didn't do that. They just
played out in front of everybody. And they look like
(07:50):
a Mickey Mouse organization. And you're a big I know
this about you too. You're big about process. You know,
when it comes to say sports petting, if your process
is good, sometimes you get a bad result, you get
a fluky result. But if you stay true to your
process and it's good, eventually the wins will come your way.
(08:11):
Big process guy. It's the same thing with the coaching search.
The process for the Knicks to try to find their
coach was just a calamity. It's like, you know, if
you're at the poker table. You know, you will sometimes
win some hands even though your process was bad. You
might just luck out. And that's the best case scenario
(08:34):
for the Knicks. Their process was terrible. They I don't know,
they went all in with a mediocre starting hand. By
the way, our producer Justin Cooper, while we're talking about poker,
he will have a story of a strong finish in
a Vegas poker tournament later this hour.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Oh, I can't wait. Yesterday he was he was in round.
It was a second second day.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, he was a couple off. He hasn't many different tournaments, right,
but one of the finished fantastic. Yeah, but it'd be
like going all in with like seven ten this weird
mediocre hand, Like, yeah, maybe you were aggressive pre flop,
you just you didn't hit anything on the flop, nothing
on the turn. You're still just firing away. It's like,
(09:21):
that's not a great process and somehow you're expecting or
hoping to wiggle out of that. That's really where the
Knicks are. It's just and at the end of the day,
I don't see how ending on Mike Brown is benefiting
you in any way. This is like you firing all
of your kitchen utensils and replacing them with worse kitchen
(09:45):
kitchen utensils. It's just not benefiting you in any way.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's not. And this is why the Knicks are going
to be the Knicks. And this is a year, by
the way, where you know, it's it's a it's a
great year to try to do something special in right
in in in in that in that in uh in
the Eastern Conference, because the Celtics have punted on the
(10:12):
season right with Ten's injury in their moves, we know,
uh that Indiana is basically not punted. But there they
announced i think last night yesterday, Hollybird's out for the season.
They're just like, he's done, out for the season. We're
not even a rushing back, which is which I think
is actually a very positive sign for a pro sports franchise.
Just understand that that he's he's our guy. Rushing him
(10:36):
back makes no sense to say he's out for the season.
Give him a full look. It maybe comes back to
play the last two weeks of the year. Brian, it's
certainly possible, right, who knows, but like he's just not
just don't don't don't bet on it, right and and
so this is a year in the Eastern Conference where,
like you know, there are teams that got better. I
think Atlanta got better, of course, about Orlando, but you
(10:59):
know those I don't think they're not really Easter Rovert's
Finals winners. The Cow's gonna be good again. But the
Nick's had like of a real chance. But yeah, they do.
I don't know if this coaching change is really going
to make a difference in giving them that chance.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, that's the other interesting thing to me is I
think coaching in today's day and age, certainly in the NBA,
you have to have one of two things going for you, right.
You either have to have management really like you, or
you have to have the players really like you. But
if you're zero for two, you're out of a gig.
I mean, that's just where we are now. I don't know,
(11:37):
it's it sure seems like this is James Dolan. His
fingerprints are all over this. So it doesn't seem like
James Dolan was incredibly fond of Tom Thibodeau. And you
could kind of put two and two together. Tims kind
of roles like I would expect him to roll in
the office, sort of like Bill Belichick. You know, like
Robert Kraft was fine with getting rid of Bill Belichick
(11:59):
after six championships. Jeff, you know, it's not like Belichick
is kissing Robert Kraft's ring. And I can't expect Tom
Thibodeaux to have done the same thing with James Dolan.
You know, it's not like James Dolan shows up in
the office and Tibbs is like, Hey, Jimmy d what's
going on, man, how's the fishing going? Like that's just
(12:20):
not who Tibbs is. He's like, I got stuff to do.
I gotta grind away, I'm watching take Yeah, I don't
have time to talk to you. He seems like he
would probably be like that. And then we had the
reports of the exit interviews with the players and reportedly
won or a couple of players weren't too fond of
playing for TIBs. So you gotta have one of the two.
(12:42):
Either management is on board or the players or are
on board. But if you're zero for two, you're out
of a gig. And that's the thing if you look
at other head coaches. Mike Malone had a lot of
success with the Denver Nuggets. He was out of a
job and the reports came out where there were numerous
players that were miffed. They were disgruntled with how things
were going. Yeah, and it reminded me, while we're talking
(13:04):
New York, Jeff, it reminded me of some old school audio.
So this was a member of the New York Giants.
This is Carl Banks. Remember Carl Banks with Lawrence Taylor
and all those great Giants teams. So he was on
NFL network on America's Game. Right, they chronicle a Super
Bowl winning team season, and this is what Carl Banks
(13:25):
had to say about his head coach, Bill Parcells. Check
this out. This is great.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
That is sort of the relationship Bill had with his players.
He would do something or say something crazy to you.
It affected players differently. I went through a long period
for Parcels and I We literally hated each other for
about an hour a day. I know some players to
this day that just don't like Bill Parcells, but they
(13:51):
played hard for him.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
One of my favorite movies is Training Day with Denzel Washington,
and there's a line in the movie where he goes
that they is dead dog. We don't roll like that
no more. Right, that's where we are with coaching. What
Carl Banks explained with Bill Parcells and players hating this guy,
but they played hard for him. Yeah, that's no longer today.
(14:13):
The players that hate their head coach, they just let
it be known and that coach is most likely out
of a gig. So it's a really interesting thing you
got to do as a current head coach in the NBA.
You got to push your players, You got to hold
them accountable, and you still have to get them to
like you. That is not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's not easy. I thought you were going to the
King Kong line, but I.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Love that one too.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, I know if we're gonna have the mute button
ready to go or the dumb button. I look, I
think you're absolutely rights right. It's a it's a players
run league. You have to be friendly with the players
or the coaches. But sometimes and you mentioned New England,
right like the winning offsets that now they didn't do
the winning in New York and quite the fast and
(15:00):
that I guess maybe they want it, but they want
a lot, Brian. It's not like they didn't win, right like,
they want a lot for what they have been historically.
So you can't make the argument that they didn't win
at the level maybe that they wanted, but they won
more they had won in many, many years. But yeah,
the grind of that eventually gets old, right, And if
(15:21):
the championships and winning don't come, then people do get
tired of it. And you're right, Tims is probably not
coming in there with coffee and donuts every day saying
how was your night? Right, Hey, did you watch the
show last night? He's not doing that. But you also
know that when you hire him, So it shouldn't be
surprised when you don't get that fun, loving guy to
(15:45):
show up in the building every day. But again, it
should off you should offset that feeling with the winning,
like that's what the winning is is sort of for right,
is if you don't like the coach because he's a
little callous, well, the winning should help take care of that.
And obviously at the end it didn't, and they're not
gonna win with Mike Brown in my opinion, so at
(16:06):
least you have a coach. Maybe you like espearcisly the
X interview thing, it's pretty interesting, ye, right, So you know,
ex interviews are what you do as a player right
after season is over, and you do them immediately right
after the scene is over, and a lot of times,
you know, the season doesn't end the way you wanted to.
(16:26):
And you know, not saying they're contentious interviews, but it's like,
maybe not the best time to do them. I do
wonder if if this had been done on a different day,
different time, the actually interviews go a little bit better
for everybody evolved.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah. No, it's a legit statement right there, for sure.
I just think a lot of times, last thing I'll
say is we put x'es and o's like on a
too high of a pedestal. I'm not saying exes and
o's don't matter, they certainly do. But it just talking
about Tibbs, it makes me think of Phil Jackson, you know,
think of Phil jacks and in the success he had
(17:01):
with the Lakers, with the Bulls, winning all those championships
and just managing people, in managing egos, and like crazy
Rodman wants to go to Vegas during the season. You
know how many coaches would not have handled that the
same way. And Phil's like, you know what, let's let
him do it. I think he needs the party and
(17:22):
get this out of his system. There are a lot
of coaches that would never even think about doing that.
That has nothing to do with the triangle and x's
and o's and anything like that. It's managing people. It's
coaching players hard and getting them to still respect you
and like you, because if they don't, they're probably not
going to listen to a word you have to say.
(17:43):
It's such a skill to have.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Hey what's up everybody?
Speaker 4 (18:01):
It's me three time pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and I
couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called Up
on Game?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
What is Up on Game?
Speaker 4 (18:09):
You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Huschman,
Zada and Super Bowl champion Yup. That's right, Plexico Burds.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Up on Game.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded
with teachable moments. Listen to Up on Game with Me
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Speaker 2 (18:41):
So the Indiana Pacers, Jeff They confirmed Monday that Tyrese
Haliburton will indeed miss the entire twenty twenty five twenty
six season right this after he had surgery on his
right achilles. Not a shocker, right, But I think the
messaging is kind of it. So this is PACER's president
(19:02):
Kevin Pritchard. This is what he said yesterday. His quote is,
I have no doubt that he will be back better
than ever. The surgery went well. He will not play
next year, though, we would not jeopardize that now, so
don't get any hopes up that he will play. I
don't know, maybe it's me, maybe I'm odd here, but
(19:24):
I think that's just a weird statement where it's basically like, hey,
the hope you might have just get that off your
mind right now, not happening. I mean, I don't hate
the messages thing. It's a little bit odd. Maybe I'm
used to these teams. Maybe it's NFL offseason mode and
everybody is in the best shape ever, and man, this rookie,
(19:45):
what I've seen so far Wow, this guy has grasped
the playbook. This guy has taken control. Maybe I'm so
used to that where a PACER's statement where it's like, yeah,
get hope off your mind, immedia. Maybe that's why it
lands a little oddly for.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I mean, it's it's odd to be so forceful about it.
I feel like because a lot of times when we
hear teams talk about players and rehabits, always hope, right
and positivity, and this is just not the case. But
from a practical perspective, I like it. I like just saying, hey, guys,
we're shutting him down. There's no there's no point, Like
why are we going to rush him back for a
(20:26):
season that we've already not not punted on. But we
got rid of Miles Turner as we know, right, Like
you know, we just it's a different We're going to
have a different team, so we're just we're not punting
on the season, but we're letting you know that don't
expect him back. So I appreciate Brian. I think the
honesty there, right. I appreciate the honesty because that's what
(20:46):
they should be thinking. But yeah, most of the time
people teams are like, you know, he's coming back. Guys.
You know, you want to sell tickets, you want to
sell excitement, you want to sell hope, and they just
didn't do that here. So it just feels it's different.
It's that you don't normally hear or we quote like
that from a team. But this is smart. This is
the right decision, right, Let's not rush him back. We
rushed him back from the calf injury. Rushed is the
(21:08):
wrong word. He was it was the funnels. He was
gonna play no matter what. But he's back early. He
got hurt, there's no reason to bring him. But he's
our future of our franchise. Let's wait, let's it looks
he might come back a month early. Never know, but
I think under selling it is always better than over
selling it, and so I appreciate at least that that perspective.
But yes, saying hey guys, no hope, nothing, sorry, don't
(21:31):
don't think about it. Don't just don't think about it.
So I found that, you know, that's that's unique. You
just don't hear that in other sports.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, it'd be like the Titans, like press conference, Hey, uh,
you think he might make the playoffs this year? And whatever?
The head coach or whomever it may be. The GM
is like, uh, you know what, don't get your hopes
up on that. It'd be like what, whoa wow, it
would like blow you away. I'm not listen. I I
(22:02):
just it struck me as a little odd. That's if
they left it at he will not play next year though, Okay,
but he took it a step further, So don't get
any hopes up that he will play. It's like, whoa
pretty strong, but hey, I get it. Shutting him down
is the right move. And I totally agree underselling is
better than over selling, like, hey, maybe maybe he'd be
(22:23):
back for the stretch run if we're in a good
position and blah blah blah. Yeah, I don't think they're
at mishandling it. It's just so different. That's where it's like,
whoa wow. Okay, we're just cutting to the chase right here.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So what makes the NFL so different, as you mentioned
from others, as you have NFL in the mind, is
the NFL sells hope better than another league. Yeah, it's
one of their hallmarks. And the NFL A team would
never put them out like this. No, especially you know
(22:56):
this time of year. The best part about kind of
preparing for the season, for the NFL seasons, just how
everyone thinks they're gonna they're gonna be good this year.
I sounded like four teams And you don't feel that
way in other sports, you really don't, you know, professional
football and look, there's really just a handful team that
he can win the super Bowl, but you never know,
right like you can. Post hockey feels this way sometimes too,
where eight seeds play much better than, you know, than expected.
(23:19):
But the ability for the NFL just to sell this
idea that you know, we're everyone has a chance to
win makes it a very unique league.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Absolutely it does. And this is the other part of
the Halliburton thing. So you saw where Halliburton he posted
on social media that he didn't regret playing in Game
seven and he would do it again and again after that,
and he wrote to fight for this city and my brothers.
And so that's the backdrop where again the president, Kevin Pritchard,
(23:50):
he made this statement and it really caught my attention.
He said, if you're asking me, would I have him
do it over and over? I would not. If I
knew he was going to get hurt, I would sacrifice
that game because I care for the kids so much
and want him to have an incredible career. That's his statement.
And so it just made me think, do you blame
(24:13):
the Pacers at all for letting Halliburton play in Game seven?
I mean, even if it's a I fight, not even
of one percent.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Buddy, this is it's Game seven the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, no, I hear you.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And there's no way that that Holly Burnon would have
been like, yeah, I'm not playing. And he knew the
risk and we all knew. We we we followed the sport.
We see what happens to these achilles injuries. We see
you rush back from a calf injury. I think there's
just no way he wasn't gonna play, and and you
just it's it's unfortunate. Injuries are part of the game,
one hundred percent injury rate. It's it really sucked to
(24:48):
saw him seem on the on the court like that,
just like holy, I mean all it was terrible, But
it was Game seven the NBA Finals. Yeah you're gonna play,
he mentioned back. If he didn't play and they lost
by four, you've been like, what what you would have
a chance to beat.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So, and there's no guarantee he would have gotten hurt. Right,
you lose by four, he doesn't play at all, and
now you wrestle with he. He might have been okay.
He was okay in game six, right, Sure, So it's a.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
It's a tough spot, I think for everyone, right, because
you want to protect your your superstar. You think about
long term. You saw how you know, I think I
don't think it was actually physical pain. I think it
was emotional pain. In the moment that was really hard
to watch to see how just emotionally. You know how
upset he was after the injury. And you know Achilles injuries.
(25:41):
I've been fortunately not have one, but you know the
signs are always there. And I think that it's pretty
easy to tell when a guy has an Achilles injury
and players know that as well. You feel that snap
right unfortunately of of the hegue, so you know what
it is immediately, So there's no like So again as
a player, you know how long that rehab is. You
see other people in the league and then so in
(26:02):
that moment, that's why he was so distraught. And sure
you feel but I am like the least emotional person ever,
Like I just maybe I just don't feel much. Sometimes
I probably should feel more.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I need to watch more rom comms.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I watched a ton of rom comms. I'm just very
like matter of fact, I think a lot of times
and I but I felt emotional watching Holli Booker. I
was like, oh, I was like, oh, jeez, a poor guy.
Maybe because I was so hurt in my NFL career
and I did nothing to like deserves by the wrong word.
But like just I just always got hurt, and just
I just got used to just numb with injuries. I
(26:38):
just never affects me anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, I think with if anybody's second guessing Halliburton playing
in game seven, my rule is this, Jeff, you need
to be first guessing in order to be second guessing.
Anybody can say after he gets hurt in game seven,
like you should have been out there in the first place.
It's like, well, that's easy, because as you have access
(27:01):
to the results, you need to be first guessing. Before
you have access to the results, you know you needed
to be saying before game six, Haliburton shouldn't be playing
too risk. You should be saying before game seven, Haliburton
shouldn't be out there. It's too risky. If you weren't
saying that that, I don't want to hear correct you
say that once you find out that he snapped his achilles.
(27:23):
That's my own rule. And listen, this is the nature
of sports. It's unfortunate. There was no guarantee he was
going to get hurt. They took a chance. Unfortunately they
got burned. But think about guys like Tarall Owens played
in the Super Bowl, right he played in Super Bowl
thirty nine. That was seven weeks after breaking his leg.
He had torn ligaments in his ankle and the doctors
(27:45):
were like, you shouldn't play in the game, and he
played anyway, and it worked out fine for him. Individually.
He played great, he didn't get hurt worse Like, you
take chances like that all the time in sports and
hope that it doesn't burn you, and every now and
then it does.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Those guys like uh like Terrell Owens, these Hall of
Fame talents, man, I have I have said for years,
and I've played with I think in my career ended
up playing with at least three, and Eli gets in
with anything will four. So Juwis Pepper's Steve Smith will
get it will get if he's not. And yet uh,
(28:25):
Adrian Peterson and Eli Manning and and one thing, you know,
the the three other guys that the non corbacks have
in common is like their ability to just regenerate, like
they these Hall of Fame players, their ability to just
never get hurt or when they get hurt, just regenerate,
like they just get healthier faster. It is it's a
(28:48):
it's a wild thing. I mean, I was there, you know,
in Minnesota and Adrian Peterson played with that sports Turney
when he had two thousand yards rushing. That was the
year I was. I. I had just come off a
Sports Turney injury. I knew I had the surgery months before.
Adrian Pearson had the same and he played every week.
I did not play every week. I had to have
surgery like immediately. It's just these guys are They're built differently, dude.
(29:10):
And so it's kind of wild just to see some
of these Hall of Fame players and their ability to
just remain healthy. And I think it's it's two things.
One it's it's natural. It's just naturally gifted, right they are,
you know, And to their ability to train at a
different level than the rest of us. Dude, I try
(29:30):
as hard as I could. It sometimes didn't even matter,
Like it just didn't matter because the guys are better
than me. It's just what it's genetics to what it is.
And so you know, Hollie Burn, maybe he's one of
these guys that is so good he can recover faster
anyone else, but probably not so in the end, I'm
glad the pagiers at least said that. Right, it's the
same like, hey, guy, just don't worry about it. He's
not going to come back this year. Focus on, you know,
(29:51):
on something else.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt, and hopefully it will be as
quick of a recovery as possible.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Up of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So there have been some rule changes and there have
been some non rule changes. Yeah, okay, So I want
you to vote, if you will, throughout your opinion. Here,
what do you think the most impactful change or non
change will be for this season? Okay, So here are
(30:28):
the choices, and I'll try to go fast because you
might just forget the first couple after I readle off
five of these things. You know, so this is gonna
sound like nothing really, but the virtual tracking system that's
gonna be used to measure down in distances. And you
might think, who cares, all, right, they're replacing the chain gang.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Well well they're actually not though, Well.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's the secondary system, so they're not gonna be used
at all. They're just gonna be hanging out and like
the emergency go basically right, they're not going to be used.
I don't know that they're ever gonna be used. So
it's gonna be this virtual tracking system. And just when
you shrug your shoulders and think that might not make
a difference, well think about that Bills Chiefs game, and
(31:14):
I don't know, maybe the virtual tracking system will make
a difference. And that's a first down for the Bills.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Okay, But okay, here's here's the question I have with
with with that is that I don't think it's gonna
help that much with spot Like it's because you don't
know where it's not helping tell you where someone's down though, right,
It's just it's just telling you where the ball I
think is right. Right, So still, I mean, there's still
(31:42):
some questions I have about the system. But okay, okay,
that's one change.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
That's one. On side kicks, you can you can go
for an on side kick at any point.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
During and not declare. You used to have to declare
the on side kick, right.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, you still do because you have to alert the
opposing team, which sucks. We can't do the the surprise
on s. There's nobody there. Everybody's downfield, correct, you know,
like the old Pat McAfee where he kicked the ten yards.
You can recover it every time. Now there's no one there,
but you have to alert them. So there's that change.
Both teams are now guaranteed at least one possession in overtime.
(32:18):
And then we get to the two biggies. I think
the toush push remains, and then you have touchbacks on
kickoffs the ball be spotted at the thirty five yard
line instead of the thirty Which of those changes are
non changes do you think will be most impactful?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Well, the toush push only really impacts one I mean ego.
I mean some teams don't touch push, like the Chiefs
never touch push. That doesn't impact them at all. No,
the overtime thing is fairly interesting, right, I think, because
how many times have we seen that obviously play a
role and you know, the team's chance to win to
(32:57):
win a game, right, I mean, it seems like these
rules change for the Chiefs seem to win overtime games.
But nonetheless that that feels pretty impactful, you know. So
that what was the other one you mentioned?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I think touchbacks is the big one. So it's ball
spoted at the thirty five. Yeah, so it incentivizes not
kicking the ball through the back of the end zone.
We're gonna see more kickoff returns most likely.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, probably, I would say you're right on that. I
don't think teams ah that five yards. I mean, I
don't know if teams are gonna are gonna risk a
return for five yards of field position.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I think some teams will. Some will say, hey, man,
we're gonna try to kick it as close to the
goal line as possible, and we're gonna rally and we're
our chances are better than not. They're going to stop
you before you reach the thirty five.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
One thing I Brian, that I find it interesting about
the NFL seems obsessed with making the kickoff a thing.
I don't know why. I'm never watching a game, but
you know, I missed the kickoff return, Like just like,
give me the quarterback as soon as possible, you know
what I mean. Like it seems like I don't know
why they're trying to make it. I get it from
maybe an excitement perspective, especially we want to have special teams,
(34:17):
players being involved in the game and whatnot, But otherwise
I don't quite get it. It's there's having returns a
year probably looking up five. Why are we so gong
hole about making sure returns are part of the game now?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, I think it just because it was such a
big part of the game not that long ago. Like
Devin Hester is a Hall of Famer because he was
a great return man. Oh yeah, you know, and there
was a lot of excitement with the play with absolutely
think at Dante Hall and Tamark Vanover for a little while,
I had some interesting, like some exciting returns. And listen,
(34:56):
I get it. The concussion thing, and they're trying they're
always trying to low the numbers. I understand that.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Right, But if you want to lower the number of concussions,
why would you force the kickoff returns?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, they're trying to find the best of both worlds.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Well, I get it.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
If you don't have someone running, you know, forty yards
downfield at full speed and then just by lighting with someone.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
So I every young offensive lineman who's not starting does
kickoff return Yeah right, ye, and I did it in
the day where you do whatever you wanted to do return.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, so you basically what happened is this, we did
the wedge it's called right, where you hold hands together
as a normally three to three to five, two to
five guys, whatever it was. You'd hold hands and you'd
run full speed a defender who is named the wedge buster,
(35:50):
that's right, a guy whose job it was to a
linebacker most often whose job it was to run full
speed and throw their body into the wedge to create
a pot so they couldn't return.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Okay, so you're telling me concussions occurred on places, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Shocking, Right. So what you would do is I would
be in my stands, I'd run back and I'd hold
get to the spot, hold the guy's hand, run full
speed and then you just close your eyes. Yeah, you
just you just boom and just like you're like, oh, well, okay,
survived that one. It's terrible. Look I'm not disagree with
why they got rid of it, but yeah, it was not.
(36:26):
It was not I knew guys would put in. They
put in extra the pasically took a thigh pad or
a knee pad and put it under their shoulder pads
for extra for extra extra support. But it does lead
to fun. I did have one kickoff return in the NFL, Brian,
you did, yeah, sixteen yards?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (36:44):
And uh the worst or best part either one. I
didn't fumble, which is the best part. The worst part
was that someone actually tried to tackle me and got
knocked out and got stretchered off the field.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh now there you're are you talking there?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
So what happened was it was Clifted Smith who actually
got can cussed in a game earlier again were playing.
He got can cussed earlier this season again such as
well on a on a on a pretty vistage vicious
hit on a punt return. He was the punt return
got clear, so he's going to tackle me and he
got het. He got pushed into my leg and like
(37:17):
hitting the side of my my hip got knocked out,
but I don't remember. I was celebrating so much. Uh
that when my uncle called me later that day to
talk about it, he's like, he's like, how's the guy
that that got can cuss and you got carried off?
Excuse me what happened? Yeah, you can. I can send
you to play. You can see it. There's a guy
laying at the bottom of the pile, motionless. It's really
(37:37):
like disturbing to see.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I didn't realize it happened in real time, no idea.
I was so celebrating so hard that I got sixteen yards.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Good job for you.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Made terrible running for him, though not not very.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I don't for a second. You're very slippery. Maybe a
couple of spin moves. I don't buy that at all.
I think they're a top shelf. I've interviewed Clifton Smith many.
I did radio and Fresno. He's a former bulldog. You know,
so Clifton Smith was a good return guy.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah he was.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, but him trying to tackle you, Clifton Smith is
a small guy.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Well, I think he got pushed into my leg, and
if you watch it, I don't think he I think
he got pushed in the back or something, or he
got tripped up. I don't think he was going like
headlong into my leg. Yeah, but knocked out. Yeah not
great man. Yeah, you have an Android phone. If I
sent you the video, it's gonna be all weird.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Jeff hates me because I have an Android phone.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Well, you ruined the text thread.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I'm glad to do it.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I'm very happy to quote unquote ruin the text thread
with my Android ways. You know, it makes me happy.
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