August 11, 2025 • 50 mins
Monday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Brian Noe and Geoff Schwartz recap Shedeur Sanders’ impressing in his NFL debut. They question why certain QB’s sat week 1 of the preseason. Plus, Deion pounding his chest is a bit premature and much more!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar airings and rating win and Jonas Knox on
sports radio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hold on, welcome in here these Jeff Schwartz. I'm Brian
though in for the crew today and fired up. I'll
tell you what, Jeff, you and I are. We're ball
addicts over here, right we are certified ball aholics, and
ball meaning football is right around the corner in terms
of it, meaning like counting for real.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We got a little like little or Derv's ride, a
little salad, little preseason action to Titus over. But the
real stuff is right around the corner, my friend. That's
a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I was thinking yesterday about how much fun I had
watching football this week and how we won't get it
I think until Saturday. Again. I don't think there's any
weekday games in the preseason this week, and so it
made me really sad. I very much enjoyed. Like yesterday,
I wasn't watching the games hardcore, especially the second game.
I just was watching the end of the golf yesterday
and watching baseball and cooking dinner like you just in
(01:06):
the background. I had baseball on my iPad and flipping
back between the end of the FedEx Jude Championship with
Tommy Fleetwood again just can't get home. The poor guy
can't win a tournament. But just it was nice to
just be like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna listen
to the fourth quarter of a football game while I
make dinner. That was just very enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, it's very cool. And it's funny too, because I
felt like that too. The NFL did a very good
job of spacing the preseason games out. Yes, they're like, hey,
here's a couple on Thursday, here's a couple of Friday,
here's a bunch on Saturday, here's two more on Sunday.
And by the time the Sunday games rolled around, the
last one was the Saints at the Chargers. And even
(01:47):
though Tyler Shuck, who's the second round pick, he could
be a Week one starter for the Saints, there's just
no juice, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, it's also the stadium. They're playing in, a dead
stadium in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's part of it too, But man, I mean
you compare it to Shador Sanders. Chadour is the guy
that is the limelight guy right now, he's the lightning
rod for opinions to be shared far and wide, and
he had a really good debut. It's funny. We talked
about this a little bit yesterday on Countdown, Jeff, But
(02:25):
if you look at Shadour Sanders and pretty much anybody
else in the draft, Tyler Shock's second round pick might
be a week one starter. Cam Ward number one overall
pick going to be a week one starter, and they're
like the oh, by the way stories Compared to Shaduur Sanders.
We all know Shador falls to the fifth round, but
he started the first preseason game, played really well, and
(02:48):
it's just been opinion city all things. Shadure Sanders and
every other rookie quarterback is like, you know, page page B,
page D, whatever type news in comparison, it's wild.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well, think about this that Shudur Sanders and the Browns
were playing at the same time as cam Ward was playing, right, yea,
And what game was the national television game?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's the brown The Browns game was.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, I know, number the number one pick in the draft,
Kim wored. I think he's the least talked about number
one pick we've ever seen in our lifetime. I don't
think there's even a close second. He s picked first overall. Now,
part of it is where he went. I mean, the
Titans are not a popular team in America. I'd argue
like this, like that, just that the South in general,
(03:37):
like that division is just not a popular division for
us to talk about in our in just the lexicon
in the NFL. But it's still kind of crazy. He
was the first pick in the draft and Shadur was
in the fifth round. And I get the storyline of
Schadur is a lot different and that's why he is
looked upon that. But plus he was playing and it
was right. They builded him playing most of the game
(03:58):
and he did so, you know, Kim, I think played
just two drives. He looked better I think on the
first drive to mean the second drive than the first drive.
So you know there was some improvement there. But it
just he he is one of those guys in Sanders
that it is just much must watch television for right now.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, And that's the wild thing is if Shadure was
drafted by the Titans, they would be talked about like crazy. Still,
you know, I agree with you, I'm not disagreeing with you.
The Titans. They just don't get a whole lot of
national love. They're not one of those, you know, go
to type teams, but man if Shador went there, they
all of a sudden would be you know what I mean,
it's and the Browns. We don't just talk about the
(04:40):
Browns left and right nationally either, but we do now
because of Shaduur. It was a good debut, right his stats,
if you're into that sort of thing, fourteen for twenty
three for one hundred and thirty eight yards, two touchdown passes,
also had four rushes for nineteen yards. And look, I
thought there was a tweet from Lebron that I actually
agree with Jeff where he essentially said, I'm paraphrasing He's like,
(05:03):
and don't give me that it's just preseason type stuff,
because if he's stunk it up, everybody would make a
big deal out of it. And there's some truth to that.
And I think for Shadur in particular, there's a lot
more pressure on him than most quarterbacks making their first
start in the preseason because he knows as well as
anybody that we're looking at every single throw and all
(05:24):
the critics are just weighing to pounce on any mistake,
and he played pretty well. You gotta give him his
flowers for that first preseason start.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Okay, so let's talk about the preseason and I'll get
to Sanders all tying together, Brian, all right, yeah, so
the preseason. I know it's not judged like this by everyone,
but I could just talk about myself. Okay, the way
I look at the preseason, and I'm on someone you
work with me for a while now, I'm not someone
that gets very high or very low in either direction.
(05:53):
It's not my personality. I'm just I'm I'm not gonna overreact.
I'm not gonna, you know, throw out things that I
don't believe because looks this started with. The discourse was
so gross, right, it was the Browns are setting up
standers to fail by playing him, and it was very lazy.
And this is where the analysis starts. Right, It was
(06:13):
lazy because they they the people on TV that wanted
this to be this this he was said to fail,
like they expect him to play poorly, right, they expected
him to play poorly. They're just funny that the people
that support him the most expect him to play poorly
and then in order to get in front of that
to the Browns were sabotaging him because they weren't They
(06:34):
weren't giving him enough practice reps, so they weren't doing
it the right way. Exuys the preseason. This is way
the preseason works. You have a depth chart. You play
according to the depth chart. When someone's out, the next
person plays. Standers was the next person up to play.
Joe Flacco was too old to play, Keedny Pikett and
Dylan Gabriel were too beat up I guess to play.
But I'll tell you what. Gabriel has been practicing. I'm
(06:56):
sure you wish you would have played, because now hes
probably getting passing in the depth chart, right. And Sanders
now Hopson Santa's have been practicing with the group of
players he was playing with sanataors think get first team reps.
Why would he He's not the starting quarterback, Brian, he's
the backup. Of course he gets backup reps right now.
He was play have earned him the opportunity for more
reps with the ones probably, and we don't know that
(07:18):
until we see practice today. Right. So it starts in
a place of like of laziness and and and being
disingenuous with those takes, because guess what, the same people
that had those takes were the same people that were
so effusive with their praise, Like they didn't say earlier
he was gonna suck right, like it's it's just it's
all for show. Okay. I don't operate like that. Okay.
(07:40):
So the way I look at is this is my
standard is this does it look like it should? So
let me explain what it comes to. Just the easy
way to explain this, and they'll get the sanders in
a second. So the Cincinnati Bengals, their first team, played
two drives against the Eagles backups. Okay, their offense, the
(08:00):
Bengals offense went boom boom, boom, boom boom down the field,
two touchdowns. Check the check the box looks like it should,
so it should it right, the ones are playing the
twos that should happen. On the flip side. The Bengals
defense got gashed, but the Eagles backup offense red flag
is up? Right? Why is that happening again? So if
you play that center all through the NFL during this week,
(08:21):
you know yesterday your dolphins, some of your dolphins, you're
the first string offensive line got stuffed multiple times on
the goal line. That is a red flag that should
not happen against the Bears backups. Like that to me
is so does it look like it should right? If
it does, you just check the box and you move
it along. Sanders is a fifth round pick, okay, who
(08:42):
we know is more talented than a fifth round pick.
He was playing with backups against mostly backups, the pandas
Brothers starters, some select stars a little bit, and he
looked like a player who we already know is better
than the folks he is playing with, and they played
that way. So it looked like it's in my mind,
that's what it should look like for a player that
(09:03):
we all think he'd be a starting quarterback but fell
for reasons that maybe outside of actual football in the field.
So that's his performance was just that it was a
box check for week one. Now in week two, I
don't even know they're playing. Maybe he gets reps with
the ones, or maybe gets reps with you know, against
the one defense the entire for entire multiple drives in
(09:23):
a row, then we'll judge him off that. But the
same people that got on on on TV on the
radio and told us that he was being screwed by
the Browns. Were the same people who got up there
and praised his performance, even though that they really were
admitting early on that they thought he would fail. So, like,
I just I'm just tired of like seeing of these
(09:44):
people that are using his situation, which by the way,
is no different than any other fifth round pick. Yeah,
that happened. I saw people, you know, well, he's a
fifth round pick. Yeah he was. That. That's over with now.
Now now it's time of judgment based on his performance
on the field.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well, they're at Philly next week in the preseason, so.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, Philly won't play their starters, but Philly does a
good job of just being ready to play these preseason games.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah. Yeah, So we'll see if chadur will definitely get
playing time. We'll see, you know, if he's the starter again.
How they're gonna divide everything up. That's my whole thing
with the being set up to fail. It's all how
you say things, and that's just too much. That's overkill.
If you said something like, hey man, he's in a
rough spot. He's not getting a ton of reps. This
(10:31):
is not ideal. Okay, that's fine, but when you take
it to the He's being set up to fail. That's
what RG three tweeted last week, Shaduur Sanders is being
set up to fail in Cleveland, all right? Steven A.
Smith said that on first take, Sanders is being set
up to fail. Lewis Riddick didn't exactly say that and
actually clarified it the morning of that preseason game on Friday.
(10:54):
Jeff his comments on Get Up where Chadeur is skating uphill. Right,
he talks about not getting a ton of reps.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
But it's so the problem with this is Lewis knows better,
Like out of all people like Stephen A whatever, man,
he's gonna have a Lewis knows better. He wasn't getting
He was getting the same amount of reps everyone else
was getting. And Lewis knows that. He knows how practice goes.
Santras was getting the same amount of reps as everyone
(11:24):
else in that quarterback room. He wasn't getting less reps,
and then they decided, like you haven't been practicing at all,
go play. He was getting the same amount of reps
everyone else was getting because that's the way practice works
in the preseason. Well, that's what frustrates me. It's just nonsense.
Like the people that know how this works are the
ones that are just saying that the nonsense stuff just
(11:46):
to make headlines.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right. Well, that's the thing of if you really break down,
he's being set up to fail that it never made
any sense whatsoever. Is if Cleveland is gonna be happy
if he fails, what are they gained by that? What
do they gain by him failing? They gain absolutely nothing.
Do you think that after Shadur played very well all
things considered against the Panthers, do you think that the
(12:09):
Browns like quietly were like a horrid man, we're hoping
that he failed, like they were upset that he played well.
It makes no sense at all when you really break
it down. It was just it was a silly take.
And I also think this. I get that there were
a lack of reps. I understand. I understand your point too, Jeff,
where you're saying they're being you know, split up among
(12:29):
all these other dudes. But yeah, there was a lack
of reps. But that's not the only thing to consider.
Let's not make the Panthers back up defense out to
be like the eighty five Bears or something.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Like reps with when you say lack of reps, what
do you mean lack of reps like.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Lack of first team reps? Not out there with first team.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
But the first team didn't play.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Okay, fine, but he's still not out there with the
first team.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And because the fifth because it's the four string quarterback.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
How many teams have five dudes splitting reps at quarterback?
How many teams? They're probably the only team that has that.
Man has four quarterbacks. They out there too.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It's not humbly because everyone was hurt. They'll they'll really
at some point, because I only pick. It's practicing, right,
he's he's been out. No, Sanders is getting the amount
of reps he should in the preseason in practice. People
are upset because it's not with the first team. Well,
of course not. He's not the starting quarterback. The starting
quarterback is Joe Flacco. That's what Joe Flacco gets first
(13:29):
team reps. He's the starting quarterback. Like, it's not I
don't get this discussion about lack of reps. It's the
Browns are doing exactly what everyone else does in a
quarterback competition. They're giving everyone reps to you know, you know,
equal to what position on the depth chart they are.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean, I I just I don't I don't see.
And that's the thing, Like there was a practice, I'd
have to get the screenshot. All five of these dudes
split up reps. They posted their stats like it's a
regular season game.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I agree that it's insane that they have five quarterbacks
in the roster, Like I will agree with that, like
that's not that's not giving enough reps to everyone. But
Santras is getting the reps.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Here we go, here you go, here you go, here
you go. So it's August sixth, So what last Wednesday?
I think, Okay, this is ridiculous, but we're really breaking
it down here. So here's the attempts and completions per
quarterback Flacco on this training camp practice last Wednesday. Flaco
eight for thirteen, Sanders four for seven, Picket five for seven,
(14:35):
Gabriel seven for eight, Huntly two for five. What other
team has five other dudes getting reps in practice and
point them out to me. I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So if we want to talk about their quarterback competition
and how many and how still it is, I'm absolutely
for that discussion. But he's not getting any less reps
than Gabriel is. And here's the thing, I think we
all agree that he's better than doing Gabriel. O. I
certainly think he Gabriel, but he was drafted in in
you know, he was drafted in in the UH in
(15:08):
the third round, and Sanders are drafted in the fifth round. Like,
you can't just give reps to standards ahead of Gabriel. Now,
I would argue you can't now after what happened like
like like I like, I think Gabriel probably feels like, shoot,
I probably truld have tried to play because he's you know,
he might he might lose that job pretty quickly as
a backup quarterback after what happened, you know, in in
(15:29):
in the game on Friday night. So but they're they're
getting he's getting the reps he should be getting. Now
this week, I'm very curious to see him where he
is in the depth chart. It would be probably not
fair to Gabriel to change the depth chart very much
because he hasn't a chance to play yet. But that's
(15:50):
sort of the NFL, though, Like you get hurt, like
there's not's just thing is, you know, the common is
a common thing where people say, like, well, you can't
lose your job injury. Oh no you can. It's drive injury.
But so I think that that maybe, you know, he
might lose some reps to that because of how well
you know Sanders played, but I would think probably not yet,
(16:14):
but Gabriel. If Gabriel does not play well against the Eagles,
like that's it, this is over for backup quarter. I've
said all along. I think I'm still going to be
right on this. You know, there's a competition between Flacco
and Kenny Pickett. The winner is the starter and the
loser will be released, which we Kenny Pickkett. And there's
obviously a competition between Gabriel and Sanders to see who
the backup is going to be. And I think I
(16:35):
think Sanader's will win that job. I just think Sanata
it's better than Gabriel. I mean, it's my guy at Oregon,
but I just think Sandra's is better.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and The iHeartRadio app. Hi, this
is Jay.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
I'm the producer of the Paul and Tony Fusco Show.
Usually in these pro they asked you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camp, get him Pool.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Listen to the Toy Show on the iHeart Radio app
or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
He's still moving.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Oh what's going on? Happy Sunday to you. It's not Sunday.
Happy Monday to you. I didn't go to sleep last night, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
You know I'm still I don't know how. You just
don't sleep.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
My body won't let me. Dude, I would love to
go to sleep like a normal human being, but I'm
a vampire. I don't know what it is with the
early morning hours where you know, it's around midnight. The
show starts at three am West Coast time, and I'd
love to get a couple hours. My body's just like, no, no,
you don't go to bed this early. What are you doing?
(17:57):
And then Oreo wanted in the neighborhood cats. So I
gotta let Oreo in. We just hung out for a.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Little while, you know, after this though.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I'll sleep for you know. Ok, yeah, I'll sleep
for hours after this show. But yeah, I don't know what.
I just can't. I can't get it done, can't do it.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
You're here, though, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I'm fired up to be here too. So I
love this drop. We were just talking about movies off
the year for a second. For some reason, I saw
a Matt Damon commercial, you know, the Matt Damon commercials
with what's the soccer player dude's name? I know he's
way more famous than Matt David. Who's the guy.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
On the guy mess?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
No? No, it's uh Beckham, It's Beckham. Yeah, my gosh, wow, yeah,
David Beckham.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But I was just asking Lee Robert de Lap, the
fourth our trusted producer here, what his favorite Matt Damon
movie was, and so we were talking about that. So, uh,
while we're talking movies here, this is the famous uh
drop from one of the soft Ranchi movies.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I want to play a game. I would to play
a game.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
How about we play a game right here, Jeff. So
this is the way it's gonna work. All right, very
simple concept. I'll throw out a couple of quarterbacks and
you tell me if it's a mistake or if it
makes sense that they got zero playing time in week
one of the preseason. Okay, all right, very simple concept here,
(19:24):
and shout out to about my grade school football coach,
coach Ray Garza. Jeff, he was known for this. Shout
out to coach Garza. If we messed up, he would
just yell, like, mistake and then we'd have to do
grassers at the end of practice. You know, a mistake
equaled five updowns if you will so you can you
can channel your inner Ray Garza if you would like,
(19:45):
and really, yeah, just yell at get into it. Is
it a mistake or does it make sense that bears
quarterback kles.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Out there? I when when? When? When? When they ran
out yesterday the starters right now yesterday and he was
not starting quarterback and it was Badget. I couldn't believe it.
I do not understand.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Yeah, the the the positives of him playing outweigh the
negatives by one hundred points.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Like, it's not even close. What are the negatives? He
gets hurt? No one gets taken back. Very rarely do
quarterbacks get hurt. You can't say no one else because
I'm very fantasy. Romo got hurt nine years ago in
the preseason. No one gets hurt in the preseason. There
there there was an entire week of preseason football. How
many starters in the National Football League got hurt playing
(20:41):
in a game?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I don't I don't think any of them.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Zero enter zero zero. So I didn't get it. Man,
I I'm a little concerned about Chicago. I'm not gonna lie.
I'm a little concerned about it.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Oh, it's an absolute mistake. Mistake. Coach Garza would say, Jeff,
just run down the list of reasons why. He's got
a new offensive line in front of him, at least
the interior offensive line completely new. He's got a brand
new head coach, a different concepts, like different playbook. All
(21:16):
of it is different. He's got some different playmakers around
him as well. Why wouldn't you get him on the
field and get him some reps. Then look at week one,
he's facing Brian Flores Vikings defense with all this complex stuff.
Tua played, who's banged up all the time, and Caleb
Williams is in street clothes. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Bears?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
That was a hideous call in there part.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Now, I will I will say that if you play
your starting quarterback, you have to play most of your
starting offensive line as well. Yeah, but like Joe Toney
probably doesn't need to play the preseason, so you would
play everyone but Joe Tone. It's still funny you can't
play your starting quarterback and the backup offensive line. Right,
but are you telling me that like darn Ald Wright
couldn't use some reps?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
It's yeah, it's it blows my mind a day the
day went in that direction and and just decided not
to play him. I I just it concerns me about
Ben Johnson. I know it.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
And he's a second year guy. I get it. If
he's a veteran, been around a long time. He had
a shaky rookie season and I don't know, man, I
would get him a couple of drives and get him,
get his feet wet, you know, get him some game
like situations prepared. I just think there's far more good
than bad. Again, the bad is he gets hurt, Well
(22:36):
what else? They're a lot more good realistically to come
from it. Okay, let's go with another quarterback here mistake
or makes sense. Aaron Rodgers no playing time for the Steelers.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I I think it's probably fine. He's playing a football
in his life, and I could see, like if he
plays Game two, which I haven't seen the announcement of
starters for game two, I think it's I think it's
okay for him not to play in the first game
if he plays in the second game.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I think you're right. I'm gonna go a little
bit differ. I'm gonna go small mistake. This is not
a Caleb Williams Bears like mistake, but I think small mistake. Again,
when you have brand new teammates, get out there, get
at least a drive. I think it. I think there's
some some benefits for doing that. But again, a small mistake.
(23:29):
He's been around for so long. It's not as if
he's going to be like way behind not getting him
out there. How about this. I think probably be on
the same page on this one. Joe Flacco makes sense
or a mistake that he didn't get out there with
the with the Browns.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Oh he didn't have to play.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, No, it makes sense to not get out there.
You're just trying to get him healthy. You're trying to
get him the week one.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
You have to just get there for then Santa will
take over like in a week five, so it didn't
matter anyways.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Do you think that will happen?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I think I think so. I think Sanders will
play sooner or later, and he'll he will pass doing Gabriel,
which I thought this was all wrong. It was nothing new.
But I think Sanders will get the backup job. And
Flacco did not play well last season. No, I think
that we look at this and he didn't play well
last year. He's not He's forty one. He can't move, don't.
I don't. The Browns offensive line is getting older, and
(24:23):
wide receivers aren't great. I don't know why people think
he's gonna play well.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I cashed a couple of Flacco interception bets last year
that worked out pretty well. When he's with the Clones,
I remember, yeah, and listen, man, that just shows you
how bad Anthony Richardson is at football. I mean really,
that's the thing, because when Flacco initially took over for Richardson,
You're like, wow, look at this, he's completing passes. They're
(24:48):
moving the ball, they're scoring some points, and then he
gave it a few more weeks and you're like, all right,
the magic has worn off. But initially it's just like, man,
how do we play Anthony Richardson when we've we've got
this Joe Flago guy who's more productive. It's just it's
embarrassing what's happened with Anthony Richardson and the colts man.
But that's where they are. I was also thinking this, Jeff,
(25:11):
you tell me if this makes any sense or not,
because I was thinking about how it's been thrown out
there where there's this trendy quarterback comparison, and there are
a lot of people that will say, well, hey, c J. Stroud,
the Texans quarterback, he took a step back in his
second season, right, So is that gonna happen with Jaden Daniels?
(25:31):
Is he gonna take a step back to sophomore slump?
You and I are on the same page where we
don't think that's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Daniels special talent, different player, uses his legs quite a bit,
different teammates around him. I just don't see him falling
off the same way that CJ. Stroud fell off. How
about this for a different comparison. Could you see remember
how Bryce Young started out? He was really rough, and
then last year he played a lot better. Could you
(26:01):
see a step forward? Caleb Williams wasn't as bad his
rookie year. That's not the comparison. But could you see
a big step forward from Caleb Williams the Bears quarterback
you know, new head coach? Yeah, supporting cast a better
offensive line. I could see at least at the end
of the season us saying wow, a lot better than
(26:22):
his rookie season. Right, Maybe that's the comparison to make.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, I think we're gonna see just structurally that
the offense the Chicago runs will help Caleb Willmans be better. Yeah.
And so it was so dysfunctional last year. I think
now I don't know if he will be as good
as we thought he could be. I just I get
some concerns. Here's the concern. So, like when these quarterbacks
(26:49):
are at practice and mistakes are finding practice, I think
we overanalyze practice reps and interceptions and whatnot, and mistakes
are made. But with a lot of these these guys,
the reports of the good quarterbacks are just like you know,
Mom's had a good day. I don't have a good
day through an interception or two, but you know, a
good day. And maybe kayleb woman's being judged on an
(27:11):
unfair curve, but because there's so much attention to him,
but I'm not we're not getting that from Williams. From
Bear's camp boy, another not even day for Kayler Williams. Oh,
didn't look great here. Guy can't hit the net when
he throws the ball into the hole.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
And so like those, we're just not getting the typical
training camp fluff reports that we get when it comes
to you know these sort of you know they they want,
you know, they want you want to be positive in
training camp, right, you want to get your fan base
excited if you cover the team. It just feels like
(27:55):
people are like, I don't, I don't know. I don't
know about Williams, like we haven't seen it sort of
quite yet. He's obviously very talented. I think Ben Johnson
will get the most he can out of him, so
it'd be better than the last season. But I don't expect,
I really don't to be some great Bears revival this year.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Okay, listen, I'm not saying he goes crazy and goes
nuts this year. I think that he could take a
noticeable step forward. I just think the thing with Caleb
Williams two things. The first thing is, unless you're certified,
you know, like you've put up numbers for a while,
and we know, okay, Josh Allen is a top guy.
Mahomes top guy, Like you're certified, you've been knighted. Unless
(28:34):
you've been knighted. When you have a rough day in
training camp, it's like, uh oh, where do things stand exactly?
We don't think that with the top guys. You know,
if Justin Fields goes out and stinks it up in
training camp with the Jets, it's like, uh oh, here
we go again.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So until he gets to that status, like we're going
to freak out about what he does in training camp.
And I think that's all tied to the expectations initially
number one overall, pick all this talent, what we thought
he would be, what he's expected to be, and he
didn't live up to expectations in year one. So I
think people are just freaking out. That might be a
(29:12):
common trend.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's certainly fair to view those reports with that lens
because I mean, look, the way you judge someone's career
right or wrong, is off their draft slot. Right, I
was seventh round pick. My career always gets judged as
a seventh round pick, where if your first round pick,
first pick overall, you always get judged off of that,
and then you get compared to your peers when you're
(29:35):
when you're drafted that high, I don't get compared to
any seventh round They're not like, oh, Short's played eight years,
but this guy played nine. No one cares when your
seventh round pick, but they do care when you're them.
We'll pick in the draft, and Jane Daniels plays so
well as rookie season, so everything that Williams does is
now going to be tied to Jaden Daniel's success, and
so that's where there's a lot of pressure on him.
(29:56):
Even more is because he's got a basically play well
because Jane angles has played well and look to be fair,
william can still have a good career. But it's very
rare to have a situation where two quarterbacks in the
same draft class are like world class players. It's a rarity, obviously,
nineteen eighty three very rare, even like four and then
(30:19):
and then the two like the Burrow Burrow Herbert to
I mean, you know Herbert, Like that's one that's a
rare year. But again, like those are like every twenty years,
one year that it has multiple franchise type changing quarterbacks,
and so it would be a rarity for that to
(30:42):
be the case here as well.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah. Yeah, I also think last thing I'll say is
I think Caleb Williams is the most scrutinized player in
the NFL right now. I don't know who's even that
close to Caleb Williams when we're breaking down him missing
a net in training camp, but like Coward's freaking out.
Coward is one of the smartest dudes in sports radio ever,
(31:06):
and he's freaking out. Like they took it down off
the Bear's website. It's not a good look. It's like
it doesn't matter at all. He drained multiple shots right
after that. No one cares. It's just he's the most
scrutinized guy right now. Number one. Pick all the opinions
he generated from people when he was at college just
translated to the NFL. No one is under the microscope
(31:30):
more than Caleb Williams, is, right, Now we're not breaking
down anybody else's training camp netthrows than Caleb Williams. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Well, I think it's just because it was so bad,
like that's it, you do, not breaking it down because
most of the time the quarterback gets the ball into
the net. Now again, the one thing that I always
try to tell everyone about training camp, about these reps
is you don't know what they're working on. So they
(32:00):
might be working Killa Williams. That drove might have been
like catch the ball, throw as fast as you can,
like are working on on r PO type stuff or
working on getting rid of the ball quickly, And so
you know that that's why the throws might be inaccurate.
You know when when they talk about interceptions in a
day no interceptions, he had five. Maybe that that that
you know that install for the day is deep is
(32:21):
deep throws, and they just want you to throw the
ball deep every time in that right, And you thought
you're a couple of interceptions. That's why I think some
of this is and I actually think that when you
throw no interceptions, that's almost worse. Like I kind of
judge you. I'm like, oh, you know, no interceptions, are
you trying to throw a ball down the field. So uh,
that's that's we have to take into consideration those those
(32:45):
things we talked about. These quarterbacks you can't. But again,
it wasn't a great look for kill Williams to not
be able to hit the net in that sequence and.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Then the reaction, and he was upset about Oh my gosh,
it's like, shut up, this means nothing. We're not going
to revert back, you know, after week five and be like, well,
remember the throwing that video. This shouldn't be a surprise
that he stops.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
You upset about it? You want to be accurate.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
It's crazy, man.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh what is going on? Happy Monday to you? As
I messed up and said happy Sunday, Like an hour.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
You've slept yet, so for you it's still Sunday.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, I have I'm full energy, man, I'm fired up.
We got ball over here to discuss. You know, Jeff,
I think and you tell me if you have a
different opinion here, But I think there was a popular
opinion a few months ago. It didn't make sense then.
I think it makes even less sense now. That would
be Dion Sanders, right, the father of shaduor Sanders. Shaduur
(33:54):
played very well all things considered, against the Panthers in
his preseason debut. But it made me think of all
of the opinions right before the draft and when Shador
was falling. First round came and went no, no draft pick,
second day, second third rounds came and went no Shador.
And then people were, like a lot of them were like,
(34:17):
you don't take Shador. You're gonna have to deal with
Dion Sanders, right, You're gonna have to deal with all
the opinions, all the things that he's gonna say. It's
a circus like atmosphere, y got stuff like that. I
know you heard it too.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
And if you look back, now, what has Dion done
to cause waves? When has he gone to Twitter? When
has he been in a press conference saying what is
what's going on with the Browns and my son not
getting first team raps? He hasn't said or tweeted or
done anything to cause any waves whatsoever. That was such
(34:53):
a silly thought at the time, and I think it
looks even sillier now.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
And actually, you know, Shudura said like, I really like
have not had my dad around because of that reason.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Look, I do think I do think it's it's fair
to to think, like, if you know Sanders who was sick,
you know, if he wasn't sick, would that have changed
what his philosophy was towards you know, being present essentially, right,
which I'm glad he's very healthy. I guess very hell
is wrong, but he's healthier now obviously that I do wonder.
(35:28):
I think when people were talking about that, they use
Dion as a proxy for the media, right, because there
are certainly a lot of people in the media who
have Dion's side when it comes to anything about Dion, right,
And so I think it was less about Like I
(35:50):
never expected Dion standards to go on Twitter and be like,
why is this the fans keep playing my son? But
I did expect and do expect his friends the media
to to to say to say those things on ESPN. Yeah,
well that and that's why so I think it's it
was less about Dion to me. I think they just
used Dion as a proxy for like the media. So look,
(36:13):
Josh pay I'm give him a shout out. He does
a culture ball show, Josh bow He's a great, great
cultureaball guy. He he he is. Like he had the
best way describe the phenomenon of like of Dion and
how people talk about Colorado him and like shaduro Okay,
he called it the the Dion tax, right, where people
(36:35):
that typically don't talk about college football, or don't follow
the sport, or don't really pay attention to the inner
workings of what's actually happening, but they feel like they
have to talk about it because it's a popular sports topic,
the Deon tax, right, and that that to me feels
like what it is all the time. It's people wanting
(36:59):
to have opinions about should Sanders Dion Sanders their family
without actually putting in the work to know the situation.
And I get back to the same thing with this.
You know, Deon, you excuse shud is getting screwed by
the Browns for having to play a preseason game Like
every other player ever in the same exact spot of
(37:20):
all time has the same same spot. Right, you put
a put Joe Smith fifth round quarterback in the exact
same position, the exact same thing would have happened right,
exact amount of reps, exact amount of work before the game.
Everyone's hurt. Go play the fourth round quarterback like or
to fifth round quarterback. That it would have It would
have mattered what his name was. But people are out
(37:41):
here just saying ridiculous things about that situation that don't
really know the inner work, and it's it's frustrating by
the way, when people that do know how it works
also join the crowd of saying how unfair it is.
And you know, I that bothers me because you can
be a friend of Deon Sanders and also acknowledge that
(38:06):
this is how it goes. This is how the NFL works.
When you're a four string quarterback as he is right now,
you work your way up the depth chart. They draft
him in the fifth round. You could be upset about that,
but that's over it. That happened. That that happened, it's done.
Now Still talking about that doesn't apply right now. What
applies right now is he's fourth string, he gets four
(38:27):
string reps. You might disagree with that, but this nothing
out of the out of the ordinary. Brian, and now
because he played well, which I thought he would. Then
what happens now now if you're upset because he has
a passed Gabriel yet, Well, Gabriel hasn't even had a
chance to play yet, Brian, So it would be unfair
to everyone, I think to not let Gabriel get one
(38:48):
chance this week. I would imagine to play to see
he was better in a game. I think again, I
think Sanders will be better. So it's just, you know,
the don tax is a good way to put it, right,
it's everyone that just doesn't really follow the sport the
way they should, that has to talk about him all
the time.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, I would say I do this with music quite
a bit, you know, where there will be people that
will hear a couple of the hit songs of a
certain band and they think they know the band, and
it's like, but you don't you know a couple of
the most popular song, You don't know do you know
anything from this album? Do you know anything? But you
don't even know what I'm talking about? Right? Like that
(39:28):
happens a lot in music, so I can absolutely see
that in sports as well. So that's the first thing.
The other thing is there are a lot of people
that feel strongly one way or the other about Shadoor
Sanders and Dion Sanders. Right, But that's the thing is
if you like them a lot, or them a lot,
if you dislike them a lot, I would say, don't
(39:50):
let like or dislike destroy your opinions because that's happening
a lot on both sides, whether you love them, you
hate them, whatever it happens to be, because you had
people saying, you know, I remember leading up to the draft,
some people were tweeting me like they obviously disliked Shador
Sanders and they were like, oh, this guy, it's all
(40:12):
hype the guy. He's not even accurate, He's not even tough.
I'm like, are you do you watch the Are you
kidding me? Like those are two of his core traits.
That's insanity. You just don't like him. At the same rate,
there are people that really like Shador, really like Dion,
and then it will turn into oh, he's being set
up to fail, like that's born out of really liking him.
(40:34):
It starts from a good place, but it leads you
to a bad spot. So I would say, put whatever
it is you're like or dislike for Shaduur dion to decide,
don't let it infiltrate your opinions. But there's a lot
of that going on on both sides of it.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
The reason why, to me, I always found it difficult
to be a hot take person, right who has to
just fire off these things and be so passionate in
one direction or the other, is that you have to
backtrack very often. So for example, like if you came
(41:09):
out after Segur played one game and said greatest thing ever,
he might play poorly next game and shool he's a rookie,
and then you have to backtrack off that statement. Just
it's just taking it for what it was in game one,
which was fifth round pick playing with backups against mostly
backups who we know is very talented, Like he had
(41:34):
a game that remnant that looked like a player who's
more talented than his opponents, which we all agree he is.
No one disagrees with that. So if you but if
you make it about see, I told you guys, greatest quarterback,
how dare they? And then he goes down and plays
poorly next week, you have to backtrack.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
It's in just analyzing it for what it was. So
that's why not it's not really one of the reasons
I don't do it. But that's why I don't just
make definitive statements about about players after one preseason game.
It's why going on television and saying they sat him
up to fail, you have to back I saw, you know,
I saw r G three. He did long tweet about it,
(42:16):
he was set up to fail, and then a long
tweet about how great he played. And I'm like everyone
everyone was like, you said he was gonna fail. Like
you said he was gonna fail. How can you then
say he played you? So that's my point, right, like
if you if you do those things, then you look
dumb when you have to backtrack. And so people have
had to backtrack because they just the deon. You have
(42:37):
to say something, man, No, you don't. You almost say
something every time you sure you don't have to.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
It's kind of funny. It's funny what you're saying right there, Jeff,
because and this is a smaller thing, but it does
make me think of Dion Sanders because he's done this
before and he's not the type to backtrack, but he's
he jumped the gun a little bit at times. Right
where you think back to his first win at Colorado.
And remember when ed Warder he was the reporter and
(43:05):
apparently he wrote some things that Dion didn't like leading
up to the game, and then Dion famously said after
they beat TCU as like twenty one point underdogs or
whatever it was, he said this, Yeah, he was like,
do you believe now? And then they ended up four
and eight that season, you know what I mean, Like,
that's not a do you believe now?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Moment?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
That was a good win, a good win that wasn't
you know, what do you have to say now? And
it made me think of this latest game, where again
he's a proud father. This is a small thing. I
get it, but sometimes you overreact a little bit. Shaduor
Sanders threw a second touchdown pass and Dion went to
X and tweeted, Oh yeah, what now? And that's clearly
(43:48):
a shot at the critics, you know, like it's obviously
what it is. And it's like, to me, that's not
a what now moment. That's a good performance in the
first week of the preseason. If if Shador is starting
in the regular season, and I don't know, they go
on the road to Baltimore and he plays great and
they somehow pull a stunning upset. That's a what now moment,
(44:10):
that's a what do you have to say now?
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Moment?
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I don't think the first game of the preseason is.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
But hey man, it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Dion was excited and he jumped the gun a little
bit right there.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Look it's okay, as you mentioned it, like many things
are true, right, Like, it's a great moment for him.
I get being a proud father. I'm obviously like a
you know, a dad, and I feel I feel that
in my core when you know, you decided for your
kids in athletics. But you're right, like he's setting himself
up for when if it doesn't happen quite the same
(44:42):
way in game two. Now people are coming at Dion
and coming at his family, and that's why I think
just a measured approach for the most part, and to
your point, like if you do this in the regular season,
like heck, yeah, man, like right, put your chest out,
you know, brag, brag about like all those things are
absolutely true. But again, played well in game one. I
(45:06):
hope he gets reps, better reps with better players. I
don't think that's gonna happen because I think Dylan Gabriel
still has to have a chance, I mean drafted him
in the third round, Like Gabriel has to have a
chance to uh to get the job as well. So
I don't actually don't know if Sanders will get a
ton of reps with the Ones anytime soon. I'm curious
how they how they end up splaying the reps this
weekend to see sort of where we know where the
(45:30):
competition is at.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, yeah, it will be interesting to see how it
comes along here. But that's the that's the the weird thing.
You know, measured, it's probably the most accurate to have
a measured statement. Hey, good performance, Let's see what happens next.
This is the first game in the preseason. That's the
most logical statement, correct, But measured doesn't get clicks, it
(45:57):
doesn't get a reaction, it doesn't get ratings, so you
have to then go to the next It's so messed up,
how but whatever.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
It's the way it is. Uh. Speaking about Colorado though,
you know, we don't do much college football here the
Hue it is. It's an under. It's an underseason for
me with them. It's actually one of my stronger plays
for college football. I just think there's a there's a
lot they have a lot of change. I think when
(46:25):
you look at I don't think so. Two things about
Colorado quickly. One is that we we didn't give Deon
enough credit last year for how how well that team played.
And the reason why is because year one you had
the d On tax. You had a bunch of people
that were blowing smoke every single week about their first
(46:47):
three week performance and then you realize, like, yeah, they
won one conference game afterwards, like they weren't actually that
good that season, but because everyone told us, Remember there
was a tweet by fan Duel after week three that
said who would win or what a hypothetical line between
twenty nineteen LSU and twenty twenty three Colorado.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Oh my god, line would have been fifty eight and
a half.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Okay, they would have won that game sixty five dollars.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh all right wow.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
And then last year when they actually were good, the
team was nine to three, like legitimately played well last season,
no one talked about it because there was you know,
all that energy was was used up talking about them
in year one, and I actually didn't they got their
their their due last year, but they replaced and then okay,
(47:39):
So to continue my point, there's a talented team on offense,
Like look at the guys even contributing so far in
the preseason, Travis Hunter, durs Sanders, Jimmy Waren Junior or
Webster like good football players. They just they lose so much.
They lose a Heisman winning corner who's also their best
wide receiver. They lost their other three top wide receivers,
they lost their quarterback, They replaced four offensive linemen in
(48:01):
the portal. They lose their best pass rusher, their best linebacker,
their best their best now in their best cornerback, who's
their highest and winning wide receiver. Like, they lose all
these guys. It's hard and comfortable to lose all that
talent and then replace it every year with portal players.
It's just it's nearly impossible to win if you continue
to do that. I think that's the problem with Colorado.
(48:22):
They just the portal's great for the first couple of
years as you build up your your roster, but at
some point you need to have high school players contribute,
and there's not enough of those guys in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, I think it's if you're comparing it to the NFL.
I think the portal is like free agency, and that's
great if you're adding some bells and whistles to your roster,
but you don't want to rely on it for your
core players, you know what I mean. Like you want
on an NFL roster, you want your core players to
be draft picks. You know, you want cheaper, younger talent. Yeah,
(48:53):
and then you supplement it with with free agency. But
you don't want to live on free agency for your core.
And that's the thing in college too, you don't want
to live on the portal for your core. I think
it's going to come back to bite you.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
You don't. And what I found very interesting. So you
know Dion, you know, had had the press conference, right
he was announcing that, you know, he was with his
medical team and heading into that was two mondays ago,
I believe heading into that the night before, I got
a text message from a couple of people who said, hey,
(49:27):
like he's going to retire, He's gonna step down for
health injuries, health concerns. And their their win total was
six and a half and the Sharps they pounced, they
they Colorado. You know, it was under six and a half,
and like minus one eighty five and then ended up
going to five and a half after all the sharps
(49:48):
hit it, and of course he ended up saying he's
going to coach, which I thought was very funny, like
it's just I don't know where the information comes from,
but it was very clearly wrong in that situation. It's
five and a half now their win total.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Wow, So it stayed there. Interesting, Yeah, yeah, it went
down a little bit
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar airings and rating win and Jonas Knox on
sports radio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hold on, welcome in here these Jeff Schwartz. I'm Brian
though in for the crew today and fired up. I'll
tell you what, Jeff, you and I are. We're ball
addicts over here, right we are certified ball aholics, and
ball meaning football is right around the corner in terms
of it, meaning like counting for real.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Right now.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We got a little like little or Derv's ride, a
little salad, little preseason action to Titus over. But the
real stuff is right around the corner, my friend. That's
a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I was thinking yesterday about how much fun I had
watching football this week and how we won't get it
I think until Saturday. Again. I don't think there's any
weekday games in the preseason this week, and so it
made me really sad. I very much enjoyed. Like yesterday,
I wasn't watching the games hardcore, especially the second game.
I just was watching the end of the golf yesterday
and watching baseball and cooking dinner like you just in
(01:06):
the background. I had baseball on my iPad and flipping
back between the end of the FedEx Jude Championship with
Tommy Fleetwood again just can't get home. The poor guy
can't win a tournament. But just it was nice to
just be like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna listen
to the fourth quarter of a football game while I
make dinner. That was just very enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, it's very cool. And it's funny too, because I
felt like that too. The NFL did a very good
job of spacing the preseason games out. Yes, they're like, hey,
here's a couple on Thursday, here's a couple of Friday,
here's a bunch on Saturday, here's two more on Sunday.
And by the time the Sunday games rolled around, the
last one was the Saints at the Chargers. And even
(01:47):
though Tyler Shuck, who's the second round pick, he could
be a Week one starter for the Saints, there's just
no juice, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, it's also the stadium. They're playing in, a dead
stadium in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's part of it too, But man, I mean
you compare it to Shador Sanders. Chadour is the guy
that is the limelight guy right now, he's the lightning
rod for opinions to be shared far and wide, and
he had a really good debut. It's funny. We talked
about this a little bit yesterday on Countdown, Jeff, But
(02:25):
if you look at Shadour Sanders and pretty much anybody
else in the draft, Tyler Shock's second round pick might
be a week one starter. Cam Ward number one overall
pick going to be a week one starter, and they're
like the oh, by the way stories Compared to Shaduur Sanders.
We all know Shador falls to the fifth round, but
he started the first preseason game, played really well, and
(02:48):
it's just been opinion city all things. Shadure Sanders and
every other rookie quarterback is like, you know, page page B,
page D, whatever type news in comparison, it's wild.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well, think about this that Shudur Sanders and the Browns
were playing at the same time as cam Ward was playing, right, yea,
And what game was the national television game?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's the brown The Browns game was.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, I know, number the number one pick in the draft,
Kim wored. I think he's the least talked about number
one pick we've ever seen in our lifetime. I don't
think there's even a close second. He s picked first overall. Now,
part of it is where he went. I mean, the
Titans are not a popular team in America. I'd argue
like this, like that, just that the South in general,
(03:37):
like that division is just not a popular division for
us to talk about in our in just the lexicon
in the NFL. But it's still kind of crazy. He
was the first pick in the draft and Shadur was
in the fifth round. And I get the storyline of
Schadur is a lot different and that's why he is
looked upon that. But plus he was playing and it
was right. They builded him playing most of the game
(03:58):
and he did so, you know, Kim, I think played
just two drives. He looked better I think on the
first drive to mean the second drive than the first drive.
So you know there was some improvement there. But it
just he he is one of those guys in Sanders
that it is just much must watch television for right now.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, And that's the wild thing is if Shadure was
drafted by the Titans, they would be talked about like crazy. Still,
you know, I agree with you, I'm not disagreeing with you.
The Titans. They just don't get a whole lot of
national love. They're not one of those, you know, go
to type teams, but man if Shador went there, they
all of a sudden would be you know what I mean,
it's and the Browns. We don't just talk about the
(04:40):
Browns left and right nationally either, but we do now
because of Shaduur. It was a good debut, right his stats,
if you're into that sort of thing, fourteen for twenty
three for one hundred and thirty eight yards, two touchdown passes,
also had four rushes for nineteen yards. And look, I
thought there was a tweet from Lebron that I actually
agree with Jeff where he essentially said, I'm paraphrasing He's like,
(05:03):
and don't give me that it's just preseason type stuff,
because if he's stunk it up, everybody would make a
big deal out of it. And there's some truth to that.
And I think for Shadur in particular, there's a lot
more pressure on him than most quarterbacks making their first
start in the preseason because he knows as well as
anybody that we're looking at every single throw and all
(05:24):
the critics are just weighing to pounce on any mistake,
and he played pretty well. You gotta give him his
flowers for that first preseason start.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Okay, so let's talk about the preseason and I'll get
to Sanders all tying together, Brian, all right, yeah, so
the preseason. I know it's not judged like this by everyone,
but I could just talk about myself. Okay, the way
I look at the preseason, and I'm on someone you
work with me for a while now, I'm not someone
that gets very high or very low in either direction.
(05:53):
It's not my personality. I'm just I'm I'm not gonna overreact.
I'm not gonna, you know, throw out things that I
don't believe because looks this started with. The discourse was
so gross, right, it was the Browns are setting up
standers to fail by playing him, and it was very lazy.
And this is where the analysis starts. Right, It was
(06:13):
lazy because they they the people on TV that wanted
this to be this this he was said to fail,
like they expect him to play poorly, right, they expected
him to play poorly. They're just funny that the people
that support him the most expect him to play poorly
and then in order to get in front of that
to the Browns were sabotaging him because they weren't They
(06:34):
weren't giving him enough practice reps, so they weren't doing
it the right way. Exuys the preseason. This is way
the preseason works. You have a depth chart. You play
according to the depth chart. When someone's out, the next
person plays. Standers was the next person up to play.
Joe Flacco was too old to play, Keedny Pikett and
Dylan Gabriel were too beat up I guess to play.
But I'll tell you what. Gabriel has been practicing. I'm
(06:56):
sure you wish you would have played, because now hes
probably getting passing in the depth chart, right. And Sanders
now Hopson Santa's have been practicing with the group of
players he was playing with sanataors think get first team reps.
Why would he He's not the starting quarterback, Brian, he's
the backup. Of course he gets backup reps right now.
He was play have earned him the opportunity for more
reps with the ones probably, and we don't know that
(07:18):
until we see practice today. Right. So it starts in
a place of like of laziness and and and being
disingenuous with those takes, because guess what, the same people
that had those takes were the same people that were
so effusive with their praise, Like they didn't say earlier
he was gonna suck right, like it's it's just it's
all for show. Okay. I don't operate like that. Okay.
(07:40):
So the way I look at is this is my
standard is this does it look like it should? So
let me explain what it comes to. Just the easy
way to explain this, and they'll get the sanders in
a second. So the Cincinnati Bengals, their first team, played
two drives against the Eagles backups. Okay, their offense, the
(08:00):
Bengals offense went boom boom, boom, boom boom down the field,
two touchdowns. Check the check the box looks like it should,
so it should it right, the ones are playing the
twos that should happen. On the flip side. The Bengals
defense got gashed, but the Eagles backup offense red flag
is up? Right? Why is that happening again? So if
you play that center all through the NFL during this week,
(08:21):
you know yesterday your dolphins, some of your dolphins, you're
the first string offensive line got stuffed multiple times on
the goal line. That is a red flag that should
not happen against the Bears backups. Like that to me
is so does it look like it should right? If
it does, you just check the box and you move
it along. Sanders is a fifth round pick, okay, who
(08:42):
we know is more talented than a fifth round pick.
He was playing with backups against mostly backups, the pandas
Brothers starters, some select stars a little bit, and he
looked like a player who we already know is better
than the folks he is playing with, and they played
that way. So it looked like it's in my mind,
that's what it should look like for a player that
(09:03):
we all think he'd be a starting quarterback but fell
for reasons that maybe outside of actual football in the field.
So that's his performance was just that it was a
box check for week one. Now in week two, I
don't even know they're playing. Maybe he gets reps with
the ones, or maybe gets reps with you know, against
the one defense the entire for entire multiple drives in
(09:23):
a row, then we'll judge him off that. But the
same people that got on on on TV on the
radio and told us that he was being screwed by
the Browns. Were the same people who got up there
and praised his performance, even though that they really were
admitting early on that they thought he would fail. So, like,
I just I'm just tired of like seeing of these
(09:44):
people that are using his situation, which by the way,
is no different than any other fifth round pick. Yeah,
that happened. I saw people, you know, well, he's a
fifth round pick. Yeah he was. That. That's over with now.
Now now it's time of judgment based on his performance
on the field.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well, they're at Philly next week in the preseason, so.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, Philly won't play their starters, but Philly does a
good job of just being ready to play these preseason games.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah. Yeah, So we'll see if chadur will definitely get
playing time. We'll see, you know, if he's the starter again.
How they're gonna divide everything up. That's my whole thing
with the being set up to fail. It's all how
you say things, and that's just too much. That's overkill.
If you said something like, hey man, he's in a
rough spot. He's not getting a ton of reps. This
(10:31):
is not ideal. Okay, that's fine, but when you take
it to the He's being set up to fail. That's
what RG three tweeted last week, Shaduur Sanders is being
set up to fail in Cleveland, all right? Steven A.
Smith said that on first take, Sanders is being set
up to fail. Lewis Riddick didn't exactly say that and
actually clarified it the morning of that preseason game on Friday.
(10:54):
Jeff his comments on Get Up where Chadeur is skating uphill. Right,
he talks about not getting a ton of reps.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
But it's so the problem with this is Lewis knows better,
Like out of all people like Stephen A whatever, man,
he's gonna have a Lewis knows better. He wasn't getting
He was getting the same amount of reps everyone else
was getting. And Lewis knows that. He knows how practice goes.
Santras was getting the same amount of reps as everyone
(11:24):
else in that quarterback room. He wasn't getting less reps,
and then they decided, like you haven't been practicing at all,
go play. He was getting the same amount of reps
everyone else was getting because that's the way practice works
in the preseason. Well, that's what frustrates me. It's just nonsense.
Like the people that know how this works are the
ones that are just saying that the nonsense stuff just
(11:46):
to make headlines.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right. Well, that's the thing of if you really break down,
he's being set up to fail that it never made
any sense whatsoever. Is if Cleveland is gonna be happy
if he fails, what are they gained by that? What
do they gain by him failing? They gain absolutely nothing.
Do you think that after Shadur played very well all
things considered against the Panthers, do you think that the
(12:09):
Browns like quietly were like a horrid man, we're hoping
that he failed, like they were upset that he played well.
It makes no sense at all when you really break
it down. It was just it was a silly take.
And I also think this. I get that there were
a lack of reps. I understand. I understand your point too, Jeff,
where you're saying they're being you know, split up among
(12:29):
all these other dudes. But yeah, there was a lack
of reps. But that's not the only thing to consider.
Let's not make the Panthers back up defense out to
be like the eighty five Bears or something.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Like reps with when you say lack of reps, what
do you mean lack of reps like.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Lack of first team reps? Not out there with first team.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
But the first team didn't play.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Okay, fine, but he's still not out there with the
first team.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And because the fifth because it's the four string quarterback.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
How many teams have five dudes splitting reps at quarterback?
How many teams? They're probably the only team that has that.
Man has four quarterbacks. They out there too.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It's not humbly because everyone was hurt. They'll they'll really
at some point, because I only pick. It's practicing, right,
he's he's been out. No, Sanders is getting the amount
of reps he should in the preseason in practice. People
are upset because it's not with the first team. Well,
of course not. He's not the starting quarterback. The starting
quarterback is Joe Flacco. That's what Joe Flacco gets first
(13:29):
team reps. He's the starting quarterback. Like, it's not I
don't get this discussion about lack of reps. It's the
Browns are doing exactly what everyone else does in a
quarterback competition. They're giving everyone reps to you know, you know,
equal to what position on the depth chart they are.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean, I I just I don't I don't see.
And that's the thing, Like there was a practice, I'd
have to get the screenshot. All five of these dudes
split up reps. They posted their stats like it's a
regular season game.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I agree that it's insane that they have five quarterbacks
in the roster, Like I will agree with that, like
that's not that's not giving enough reps to everyone. But
Santras is getting the reps.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Here we go, here you go, here you go, here
you go. So it's August sixth, So what last Wednesday?
I think, Okay, this is ridiculous, but we're really breaking
it down here. So here's the attempts and completions per
quarterback Flacco on this training camp practice last Wednesday. Flaco
eight for thirteen, Sanders four for seven, Picket five for seven,
(14:35):
Gabriel seven for eight, Huntly two for five. What other
team has five other dudes getting reps in practice and
point them out to me. I'd love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So if we want to talk about their quarterback competition
and how many and how still it is, I'm absolutely
for that discussion. But he's not getting any less reps
than Gabriel is. And here's the thing, I think we
all agree that he's better than doing Gabriel. O. I
certainly think he Gabriel, but he was drafted in in
you know, he was drafted in in the UH in
(15:08):
the third round, and Sanders are drafted in the fifth round. Like,
you can't just give reps to standards ahead of Gabriel. Now,
I would argue you can't now after what happened like
like like I like, I think Gabriel probably feels like, shoot,
I probably truld have tried to play because he's you know,
he might he might lose that job pretty quickly as
a backup quarterback after what happened, you know, in in
(15:29):
in the game on Friday night. So but they're they're
getting he's getting the reps he should be getting. Now
this week, I'm very curious to see him where he
is in the depth chart. It would be probably not
fair to Gabriel to change the depth chart very much
because he hasn't a chance to play yet. But that's
(15:50):
sort of the NFL, though, Like you get hurt, like
there's not's just thing is, you know, the common is
a common thing where people say, like, well, you can't
lose your job injury. Oh no you can. It's drive injury.
But so I think that that maybe, you know, he
might lose some reps to that because of how well
you know Sanders played, but I would think probably not yet,
(16:14):
but Gabriel. If Gabriel does not play well against the Eagles,
like that's it, this is over for backup quarter. I've
said all along. I think I'm still going to be
right on this. You know, there's a competition between Flacco
and Kenny Pickett. The winner is the starter and the
loser will be released, which we Kenny Pickkett. And there's
obviously a competition between Gabriel and Sanders to see who
the backup is going to be. And I think I
(16:35):
think Sanader's will win that job. I just think Sanata
it's better than Gabriel. I mean, it's my guy at Oregon,
but I just think Sandra's is better.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and The iHeartRadio app. Hi, this
is Jay.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
I'm the producer of the Paul and Tony Fusco Show.
Usually in these pro they asked you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camp, get him Pool.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Listen to the Toy Show on the iHeart Radio app
or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
He's still moving.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Oh what's going on? Happy Sunday to you. It's not Sunday.
Happy Monday to you. I didn't go to sleep last night, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
You know I'm still I don't know how. You just
don't sleep.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
My body won't let me. Dude, I would love to
go to sleep like a normal human being, but I'm
a vampire. I don't know what it is with the
early morning hours where you know, it's around midnight. The
show starts at three am West Coast time, and I'd
love to get a couple hours. My body's just like, no, no,
you don't go to bed this early. What are you doing?
(17:57):
And then Oreo wanted in the neighborhood cats. So I
gotta let Oreo in. We just hung out for a.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Little while, you know, after this though.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I'll sleep for you know. Ok, yeah, I'll sleep
for hours after this show. But yeah, I don't know what.
I just can't. I can't get it done, can't do it.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
You're here, though, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I'm fired up to be here too. So I
love this drop. We were just talking about movies off
the year for a second. For some reason, I saw
a Matt Damon commercial, you know, the Matt Damon commercials
with what's the soccer player dude's name? I know he's
way more famous than Matt David. Who's the guy.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
On the guy mess?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
No? No, it's uh Beckham, It's Beckham. Yeah, my gosh, wow, yeah,
David Beckham.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But I was just asking Lee Robert de Lap, the
fourth our trusted producer here, what his favorite Matt Damon
movie was, and so we were talking about that. So, uh,
while we're talking movies here, this is the famous uh
drop from one of the soft Ranchi movies.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I want to play a game. I would to play
a game.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
How about we play a game right here, Jeff. So
this is the way it's gonna work. All right, very
simple concept. I'll throw out a couple of quarterbacks and
you tell me if it's a mistake or if it
makes sense that they got zero playing time in week
one of the preseason. Okay, all right, very simple concept here,
(19:24):
and shout out to about my grade school football coach,
coach Ray Garza. Jeff, he was known for this. Shout
out to coach Garza. If we messed up, he would
just yell, like, mistake and then we'd have to do
grassers at the end of practice. You know, a mistake
equaled five updowns if you will so you can you
can channel your inner Ray Garza if you would like,
(19:45):
and really, yeah, just yell at get into it. Is
it a mistake or does it make sense that bears
quarterback kles.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Out there? I when when? When? When? When they ran
out yesterday the starters right now yesterday and he was
not starting quarterback and it was Badget. I couldn't believe it.
I do not understand.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Yeah, the the the positives of him playing outweigh the
negatives by one hundred points.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Like, it's not even close. What are the negatives? He
gets hurt? No one gets taken back. Very rarely do
quarterbacks get hurt. You can't say no one else because
I'm very fantasy. Romo got hurt nine years ago in
the preseason. No one gets hurt in the preseason. There
there there was an entire week of preseason football. How
many starters in the National Football League got hurt playing
(20:41):
in a game?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I don't I don't think any of them.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Zero enter zero zero. So I didn't get it. Man,
I I'm a little concerned about Chicago. I'm not gonna lie.
I'm a little concerned about it.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Oh, it's an absolute mistake. Mistake. Coach Garza would say, Jeff,
just run down the list of reasons why. He's got
a new offensive line in front of him, at least
the interior offensive line completely new. He's got a brand
new head coach, a different concepts, like different playbook. All
(21:16):
of it is different. He's got some different playmakers around
him as well. Why wouldn't you get him on the
field and get him some reps. Then look at week one,
he's facing Brian Flores Vikings defense with all this complex stuff.
Tua played, who's banged up all the time, and Caleb
Williams is in street clothes. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Bears?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
That was a hideous call in there part.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Now, I will I will say that if you play
your starting quarterback, you have to play most of your
starting offensive line as well. Yeah, but like Joe Toney
probably doesn't need to play the preseason, so you would
play everyone but Joe Tone. It's still funny you can't
play your starting quarterback and the backup offensive line. Right,
but are you telling me that like darn Ald Wright
couldn't use some reps?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
It's yeah, it's it blows my mind a day the
day went in that direction and and just decided not
to play him. I I just it concerns me about
Ben Johnson. I know it.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
And he's a second year guy. I get it. If
he's a veteran, been around a long time. He had
a shaky rookie season and I don't know, man, I
would get him a couple of drives and get him,
get his feet wet, you know, get him some game
like situations prepared. I just think there's far more good
than bad. Again, the bad is he gets hurt, Well
(22:36):
what else? They're a lot more good realistically to come
from it. Okay, let's go with another quarterback here mistake
or makes sense. Aaron Rodgers no playing time for the Steelers.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I I think it's probably fine. He's playing a football
in his life, and I could see, like if he
plays Game two, which I haven't seen the announcement of
starters for game two, I think it's I think it's
okay for him not to play in the first game
if he plays in the second game.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I think you're right. I'm gonna go a little
bit differ. I'm gonna go small mistake. This is not
a Caleb Williams Bears like mistake, but I think small mistake. Again,
when you have brand new teammates, get out there, get
at least a drive. I think it. I think there's
some some benefits for doing that. But again, a small mistake.
(23:29):
He's been around for so long. It's not as if
he's going to be like way behind not getting him
out there. How about this. I think probably be on
the same page on this one. Joe Flacco makes sense
or a mistake that he didn't get out there with
the with the Browns.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Oh he didn't have to play.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, No, it makes sense to not get out there.
You're just trying to get him healthy. You're trying to
get him the week one.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
You have to just get there for then Santa will
take over like in a week five, so it didn't
matter anyways.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Do you think that will happen?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I think I think so. I think Sanders will
play sooner or later, and he'll he will pass doing Gabriel,
which I thought this was all wrong. It was nothing new.
But I think Sanders will get the backup job. And
Flacco did not play well last season. No, I think
that we look at this and he didn't play well
last year. He's not He's forty one. He can't move, don't.
I don't. The Browns offensive line is getting older, and
(24:23):
wide receivers aren't great. I don't know why people think
he's gonna play well.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I cashed a couple of Flacco interception bets last year
that worked out pretty well. When he's with the Clones,
I remember, yeah, and listen, man, that just shows you
how bad Anthony Richardson is at football. I mean really,
that's the thing, because when Flacco initially took over for Richardson,
You're like, wow, look at this, he's completing passes. They're
(24:48):
moving the ball, they're scoring some points, and then he
gave it a few more weeks and you're like, all right,
the magic has worn off. But initially it's just like, man,
how do we play Anthony Richardson when we've we've got
this Joe Flago guy who's more productive. It's just it's
embarrassing what's happened with Anthony Richardson and the colts man.
But that's where they are. I was also thinking this, Jeff,
(25:11):
you tell me if this makes any sense or not,
because I was thinking about how it's been thrown out
there where there's this trendy quarterback comparison, and there are
a lot of people that will say, well, hey, c J. Stroud,
the Texans quarterback, he took a step back in his
second season, right, So is that gonna happen with Jaden Daniels?
(25:31):
Is he gonna take a step back to sophomore slump?
You and I are on the same page where we
don't think that's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Daniels special talent, different player, uses his legs quite a bit,
different teammates around him. I just don't see him falling
off the same way that CJ. Stroud fell off. How
about this for a different comparison. Could you see remember
how Bryce Young started out? He was really rough, and
then last year he played a lot better. Could you
(26:01):
see a step forward? Caleb Williams wasn't as bad his
rookie year. That's not the comparison. But could you see
a big step forward from Caleb Williams the Bears quarterback
you know, new head coach? Yeah, supporting cast a better
offensive line. I could see at least at the end
of the season us saying wow, a lot better than
(26:22):
his rookie season. Right, Maybe that's the comparison to make.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, I think we're gonna see just structurally that
the offense the Chicago runs will help Caleb Willmans be better. Yeah.
And so it was so dysfunctional last year. I think
now I don't know if he will be as good
as we thought he could be. I just I get
some concerns. Here's the concern. So, like when these quarterbacks
(26:49):
are at practice and mistakes are finding practice, I think
we overanalyze practice reps and interceptions and whatnot, and mistakes
are made. But with a lot of these these guys,
the reports of the good quarterbacks are just like you know,
Mom's had a good day. I don't have a good
day through an interception or two, but you know, a
good day. And maybe kayleb woman's being judged on an
(27:11):
unfair curve, but because there's so much attention to him,
but I'm not we're not getting that from Williams. From
Bear's camp boy, another not even day for Kayler Williams. Oh,
didn't look great here. Guy can't hit the net when
he throws the ball into the hole.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
And so like those, we're just not getting the typical
training camp fluff reports that we get when it comes
to you know these sort of you know they they want,
you know, they want you want to be positive in
training camp, right, you want to get your fan base
excited if you cover the team. It just feels like
(27:55):
people are like, I don't, I don't know. I don't
know about Williams, like we haven't seen it sort of
quite yet. He's obviously very talented. I think Ben Johnson
will get the most he can out of him, so
it'd be better than the last season. But I don't expect,
I really don't to be some great Bears revival this year.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Okay, listen, I'm not saying he goes crazy and goes
nuts this year. I think that he could take a
noticeable step forward. I just think the thing with Caleb
Williams two things. The first thing is, unless you're certified,
you know, like you've put up numbers for a while,
and we know, okay, Josh Allen is a top guy.
Mahomes top guy, Like you're certified, you've been knighted. Unless
(28:34):
you've been knighted. When you have a rough day in
training camp, it's like, uh oh, where do things stand exactly?
We don't think that with the top guys. You know,
if Justin Fields goes out and stinks it up in
training camp with the Jets, it's like, uh oh, here
we go again.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So until he gets to that status, like we're going
to freak out about what he does in training camp.
And I think that's all tied to the expectations initially
number one overall, pick all this talent, what we thought
he would be, what he's expected to be, and he
didn't live up to expectations in year one. So I
think people are just freaking out. That might be a
(29:12):
common trend.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's certainly fair to view those reports with that lens
because I mean, look, the way you judge someone's career
right or wrong, is off their draft slot. Right, I
was seventh round pick. My career always gets judged as
a seventh round pick, where if your first round pick,
first pick overall, you always get judged off of that,
and then you get compared to your peers when you're
(29:35):
when you're drafted that high, I don't get compared to
any seventh round They're not like, oh, Short's played eight years,
but this guy played nine. No one cares when your
seventh round pick, but they do care when you're them.
We'll pick in the draft, and Jane Daniels plays so
well as rookie season, so everything that Williams does is
now going to be tied to Jaden Daniel's success, and
so that's where there's a lot of pressure on him.
(29:56):
Even more is because he's got a basically play well
because Jane angles has played well and look to be fair,
william can still have a good career. But it's very
rare to have a situation where two quarterbacks in the
same draft class are like world class players. It's a rarity, obviously,
nineteen eighty three very rare, even like four and then
(30:19):
and then the two like the Burrow Burrow Herbert to
I mean, you know Herbert, Like that's one that's a
rare year. But again, like those are like every twenty years,
one year that it has multiple franchise type changing quarterbacks,
and so it would be a rarity for that to
(30:42):
be the case here as well.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah. Yeah, I also think last thing I'll say is
I think Caleb Williams is the most scrutinized player in
the NFL right now. I don't know who's even that
close to Caleb Williams when we're breaking down him missing
a net in training camp, but like Coward's freaking out.
Coward is one of the smartest dudes in sports radio ever,
(31:06):
and he's freaking out. Like they took it down off
the Bear's website. It's not a good look. It's like
it doesn't matter at all. He drained multiple shots right
after that. No one cares. It's just he's the most
scrutinized guy right now. Number one. Pick all the opinions
he generated from people when he was at college just
translated to the NFL. No one is under the microscope
(31:30):
more than Caleb Williams, is, right, Now we're not breaking
down anybody else's training camp netthrows than Caleb Williams. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Well, I think it's just because it was so bad,
like that's it, you do, not breaking it down because
most of the time the quarterback gets the ball into
the net. Now again, the one thing that I always
try to tell everyone about training camp, about these reps
is you don't know what they're working on. So they
(32:00):
might be working Killa Williams. That drove might have been
like catch the ball, throw as fast as you can,
like are working on on r PO type stuff or
working on getting rid of the ball quickly, And so
you know that that's why the throws might be inaccurate.
You know when when they talk about interceptions in a
day no interceptions, he had five. Maybe that that that
you know that install for the day is deep is
(32:21):
deep throws, and they just want you to throw the
ball deep every time in that right, And you thought
you're a couple of interceptions. That's why I think some
of this is and I actually think that when you
throw no interceptions, that's almost worse. Like I kind of
judge you. I'm like, oh, you know, no interceptions, are
you trying to throw a ball down the field. So uh,
that's that's we have to take into consideration those those
(32:45):
things we talked about. These quarterbacks you can't. But again,
it wasn't a great look for kill Williams to not
be able to hit the net in that sequence and.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Then the reaction, and he was upset about Oh my gosh,
it's like, shut up, this means nothing. We're not going
to revert back, you know, after week five and be like, well,
remember the throwing that video. This shouldn't be a surprise
that he stops.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
You upset about it? You want to be accurate.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
It's crazy, man.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh what is going on? Happy Monday to you? As
I messed up and said happy Sunday, Like an hour.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
You've slept yet, so for you it's still Sunday.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, I have I'm full energy, man, I'm fired up.
We got ball over here to discuss. You know, Jeff,
I think and you tell me if you have a
different opinion here, But I think there was a popular
opinion a few months ago. It didn't make sense then.
I think it makes even less sense now. That would
be Dion Sanders, right, the father of shaduor Sanders. Shaduur
(33:54):
played very well all things considered, against the Panthers in
his preseason debut. But it made me think of all
of the opinions right before the draft and when Shador
was falling. First round came and went no, no draft pick,
second day, second third rounds came and went no Shador.
And then people were, like a lot of them were like,
(34:17):
you don't take Shador. You're gonna have to deal with
Dion Sanders, right, You're gonna have to deal with all
the opinions, all the things that he's gonna say. It's
a circus like atmosphere, y got stuff like that. I
know you heard it too.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
And if you look back, now, what has Dion done
to cause waves? When has he gone to Twitter? When
has he been in a press conference saying what is
what's going on with the Browns and my son not
getting first team raps? He hasn't said or tweeted or
done anything to cause any waves whatsoever. That was such
(34:53):
a silly thought at the time, and I think it
looks even sillier now.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
And actually, you know, Shudura said like, I really like
have not had my dad around because of that reason.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Look, I do think I do think it's it's fair
to to think, like, if you know Sanders who was sick,
you know, if he wasn't sick, would that have changed
what his philosophy was towards you know, being present essentially, right,
which I'm glad he's very healthy. I guess very hell
is wrong, but he's healthier now obviously that I do wonder.
(35:28):
I think when people were talking about that, they use
Dion as a proxy for the media, right, because there
are certainly a lot of people in the media who
have Dion's side when it comes to anything about Dion, right,
And so I think it was less about Like I
(35:50):
never expected Dion standards to go on Twitter and be like,
why is this the fans keep playing my son? But
I did expect and do expect his friends the media
to to to say to say those things on ESPN. Yeah,
well that and that's why so I think it's it
was less about Dion to me. I think they just
used Dion as a proxy for like the media. So look,
(36:13):
Josh pay I'm give him a shout out. He does
a culture ball show, Josh bow He's a great, great
cultureaball guy. He he he is. Like he had the
best way describe the phenomenon of like of Dion and
how people talk about Colorado him and like shaduro Okay,
he called it the the Dion tax, right, where people
(36:35):
that typically don't talk about college football, or don't follow
the sport, or don't really pay attention to the inner
workings of what's actually happening, but they feel like they
have to talk about it because it's a popular sports topic,
the Deon tax, right, and that that to me feels
like what it is all the time. It's people wanting
(36:59):
to have opinions about should Sanders Dion Sanders their family
without actually putting in the work to know the situation.
And I get back to the same thing with this.
You know, Deon, you excuse shud is getting screwed by
the Browns for having to play a preseason game Like
every other player ever in the same exact spot of
(37:20):
all time has the same same spot. Right, you put
a put Joe Smith fifth round quarterback in the exact
same position, the exact same thing would have happened right,
exact amount of reps, exact amount of work before the game.
Everyone's hurt. Go play the fourth round quarterback like or
to fifth round quarterback. That it would have It would
have mattered what his name was. But people are out
(37:41):
here just saying ridiculous things about that situation that don't
really know the inner work, and it's it's frustrating by
the way, when people that do know how it works
also join the crowd of saying how unfair it is.
And you know, I that bothers me because you can
be a friend of Deon Sanders and also acknowledge that
(38:06):
this is how it goes. This is how the NFL works.
When you're a four string quarterback as he is right now,
you work your way up the depth chart. They draft
him in the fifth round. You could be upset about that,
but that's over it. That happened. That that happened, it's done.
Now Still talking about that doesn't apply right now. What
applies right now is he's fourth string, he gets four
(38:27):
string reps. You might disagree with that, but this nothing
out of the out of the ordinary. Brian, and now
because he played well, which I thought he would. Then
what happens now now if you're upset because he has
a passed Gabriel yet, Well, Gabriel hasn't even had a
chance to play yet, Brian, So it would be unfair
to everyone, I think to not let Gabriel get one
(38:48):
chance this week. I would imagine to play to see
he was better in a game. I think again, I
think Sanders will be better. So it's just, you know,
the don tax is a good way to put it, right,
it's everyone that just doesn't really follow the sport the
way they should, that has to talk about him all
the time.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, I would say I do this with music quite
a bit, you know, where there will be people that
will hear a couple of the hit songs of a
certain band and they think they know the band, and
it's like, but you don't you know a couple of
the most popular song, You don't know do you know
anything from this album? Do you know anything? But you
don't even know what I'm talking about? Right? Like that
(39:28):
happens a lot in music, so I can absolutely see
that in sports as well. So that's the first thing.
The other thing is there are a lot of people
that feel strongly one way or the other about Shadoor
Sanders and Dion Sanders. Right, But that's the thing is
if you like them a lot, or them a lot,
if you dislike them a lot, I would say, don't
(39:50):
let like or dislike destroy your opinions because that's happening
a lot on both sides, whether you love them, you
hate them, whatever it happens to be, because you had
people saying, you know, I remember leading up to the draft,
some people were tweeting me like they obviously disliked Shador
Sanders and they were like, oh, this guy, it's all
(40:12):
hype the guy. He's not even accurate, He's not even tough.
I'm like, are you do you watch the Are you
kidding me? Like those are two of his core traits.
That's insanity. You just don't like him. At the same rate,
there are people that really like Shador, really like Dion,
and then it will turn into oh, he's being set
up to fail, like that's born out of really liking him.
(40:34):
It starts from a good place, but it leads you
to a bad spot. So I would say, put whatever
it is you're like or dislike for Shaduur dion to decide,
don't let it infiltrate your opinions. But there's a lot
of that going on on both sides of it.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
The reason why, to me, I always found it difficult
to be a hot take person, right who has to
just fire off these things and be so passionate in
one direction or the other, is that you have to
backtrack very often. So for example, like if you came
(41:09):
out after Segur played one game and said greatest thing ever,
he might play poorly next game and shool he's a rookie,
and then you have to backtrack off that statement. Just
it's just taking it for what it was in game one,
which was fifth round pick playing with backups against mostly
backups who we know is very talented, Like he had
(41:34):
a game that remnant that looked like a player who's
more talented than his opponents, which we all agree he is.
No one disagrees with that. So if you but if
you make it about see, I told you guys, greatest quarterback,
how dare they? And then he goes down and plays
poorly next week, you have to backtrack.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
It's in just analyzing it for what it was. So
that's why not it's not really one of the reasons
I don't do it. But that's why I don't just
make definitive statements about about players after one preseason game.
It's why going on television and saying they sat him
up to fail, you have to back I saw, you know,
I saw r G three. He did long tweet about it,
(42:16):
he was set up to fail, and then a long
tweet about how great he played. And I'm like everyone
everyone was like, you said he was gonna fail. Like
you said he was gonna fail. How can you then
say he played you? So that's my point, right, like
if you if you do those things, then you look
dumb when you have to backtrack. And so people have
had to backtrack because they just the deon. You have
(42:37):
to say something, man, No, you don't. You almost say
something every time you sure you don't have to.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
It's kind of funny. It's funny what you're saying right there, Jeff,
because and this is a smaller thing, but it does
make me think of Dion Sanders because he's done this
before and he's not the type to backtrack, but he's
he jumped the gun a little bit at times. Right
where you think back to his first win at Colorado.
And remember when ed Warder he was the reporter and
(43:05):
apparently he wrote some things that Dion didn't like leading
up to the game, and then Dion famously said after
they beat TCU as like twenty one point underdogs or
whatever it was, he said this, Yeah, he was like,
do you believe now? And then they ended up four
and eight that season, you know what I mean, Like,
that's not a do you believe now?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Moment?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
That was a good win, a good win that wasn't
you know, what do you have to say now? And
it made me think of this latest game, where again
he's a proud father. This is a small thing. I
get it, but sometimes you overreact a little bit. Shaduor
Sanders threw a second touchdown pass and Dion went to
X and tweeted, Oh yeah, what now? And that's clearly
(43:48):
a shot at the critics, you know, like it's obviously
what it is. And it's like, to me, that's not
a what now moment. That's a good performance in the
first week of the preseason. If if Shador is starting
in the regular season, and I don't know, they go
on the road to Baltimore and he plays great and
they somehow pull a stunning upset. That's a what now moment,
(44:10):
that's a what do you have to say now?
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Moment?
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I don't think the first game of the preseason is.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
But hey man, it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Dion was excited and he jumped the gun a little
bit right there.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Look it's okay, as you mentioned it, like many things
are true, right, Like, it's a great moment for him.
I get being a proud father. I'm obviously like a
you know, a dad, and I feel I feel that
in my core when you know, you decided for your
kids in athletics. But you're right, like he's setting himself
up for when if it doesn't happen quite the same
(44:42):
way in game two. Now people are coming at Dion
and coming at his family, and that's why I think
just a measured approach for the most part, and to
your point, like if you do this in the regular season,
like heck, yeah, man, like right, put your chest out,
you know, brag, brag about like all those things are
absolutely true. But again, played well in game one. I
(45:06):
hope he gets reps, better reps with better players. I
don't think that's gonna happen because I think Dylan Gabriel
still has to have a chance, I mean drafted him
in the third round, Like Gabriel has to have a
chance to uh to get the job as well. So
I don't actually don't know if Sanders will get a
ton of reps with the Ones anytime soon. I'm curious
how they how they end up splaying the reps this
weekend to see sort of where we know where the
(45:30):
competition is at.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, yeah, it will be interesting to see how it
comes along here. But that's the that's the the weird thing.
You know, measured, it's probably the most accurate to have
a measured statement. Hey, good performance, Let's see what happens next.
This is the first game in the preseason. That's the
most logical statement, correct, But measured doesn't get clicks, it
(45:57):
doesn't get a reaction, it doesn't get ratings, so you
have to then go to the next It's so messed up,
how but whatever.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
It's the way it is. Uh. Speaking about Colorado though,
you know, we don't do much college football here the
Hue it is. It's an under. It's an underseason for
me with them. It's actually one of my stronger plays
for college football. I just think there's a there's a
lot they have a lot of change. I think when
(46:25):
you look at I don't think so. Two things about
Colorado quickly. One is that we we didn't give Deon
enough credit last year for how how well that team played.
And the reason why is because year one you had
the d On tax. You had a bunch of people
that were blowing smoke every single week about their first
(46:47):
three week performance and then you realize, like, yeah, they
won one conference game afterwards, like they weren't actually that
good that season, but because everyone told us, Remember there
was a tweet by fan Duel after week three that
said who would win or what a hypothetical line between
twenty nineteen LSU and twenty twenty three Colorado.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Oh my god, line would have been fifty eight and
a half.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Okay, they would have won that game sixty five dollars.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh all right wow.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
And then last year when they actually were good, the
team was nine to three, like legitimately played well last season,
no one talked about it because there was you know,
all that energy was was used up talking about them
in year one, and I actually didn't they got their
their their due last year, but they replaced and then okay,
(47:39):
So to continue my point, there's a talented team on offense,
Like look at the guys even contributing so far in
the preseason, Travis Hunter, durs Sanders, Jimmy Waren Junior or
Webster like good football players. They just they lose so much.
They lose a Heisman winning corner who's also their best
wide receiver. They lost their other three top wide receivers,
they lost their quarterback, They replaced four offensive linemen in
(48:01):
the portal. They lose their best pass rusher, their best linebacker,
their best their best now in their best cornerback, who's
their highest and winning wide receiver. Like, they lose all
these guys. It's hard and comfortable to lose all that
talent and then replace it every year with portal players.
It's just it's nearly impossible to win if you continue
to do that. I think that's the problem with Colorado.
(48:22):
They just the portal's great for the first couple of
years as you build up your your roster, but at
some point you need to have high school players contribute,
and there's not enough of those guys in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, I think it's if you're comparing it to the NFL.
I think the portal is like free agency, and that's
great if you're adding some bells and whistles to your roster,
but you don't want to rely on it for your
core players, you know what I mean. Like you want
on an NFL roster, you want your core players to
be draft picks. You know, you want cheaper, younger talent. Yeah,
(48:53):
and then you supplement it with with free agency. But
you don't want to live on free agency for your core.
And that's the thing in college too, you don't want
to live on the portal for your core. I think
it's going to come back to bite you.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
You don't. And what I found very interesting. So you
know Dion, you know, had had the press conference, right
he was announcing that, you know, he was with his
medical team and heading into that was two mondays ago,
I believe heading into that the night before, I got
a text message from a couple of people who said, hey,
(49:27):
like he's going to retire, He's gonna step down for
health injuries, health concerns. And their their win total was
six and a half and the Sharps they pounced, they
they Colorado. You know, it was under six and a half,
and like minus one eighty five and then ended up
going to five and a half after all the sharps
(49:48):
hit it, and of course he ended up saying he's
going to coach, which I thought was very funny, like
it's just I don't know where the information comes from,
but it was very clearly wrong in that situation. It's
five and a half now their win total.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Wow, So it stayed there. Interesting, Yeah, yeah, it went
down a little bit
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