December 15, 2017 • 42 mins
Clay Travis talks about the secret conversation between Lonzo & LeBron, the latest allegations against ESPN, Thursday Night Football, & more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of out Kick the Coverage with
Clay Travis on Fox Sports Radio. Last night, I was
in the zone. I went to go see the new
Star Wars movie with my nine year old and my
seven year old. A lot of you probably over the
weekend either have or will go see that movie as
(00:21):
well as it rolls towards a billion dollars. Much to
get to on the Friday edition about Kicked the Coverage.
Big news, we talked about it some yesterday. The decision
by Disney to buy substantial assets of Fox. We'll talk
about that later in the show. We had the final
game of the Thursday Night Football package that nobody really
(00:44):
cared about, the Denver Broncos playing against the Indianapolis Colts.
Will discuss the overall impact of Thursday Night Football this
year now as we come into the final three games
of the season. We will also discuss Alonzo Ball and
Lebron Jay games having a secret conversation behind their jersey,
and Lebron as one of the great kind of drama
(01:07):
stokers of his generation and the quotes that he gave
after the Thursday Night game on the road against the Lakers,
and Lonzo Ball will Lebron be a hashtag future Laker.
I've been saying for a while that I believe that
he will will play the audio of that. We will
also continue to have fun with Warren Sap responding to
(01:29):
a sexual harassment allegation that he gave a woman a
a sex toy by saying no, no, no, no no, that's
a totally made up story. That's fake news. You need
to hear Warren Sap in his defense, and we will
play that for you. But I thought we probably should
start with Thursday Night Football coming to a close in
(01:50):
the NFL because it continues to be so controversial in
terms of its impact on the health of players, and
now that Roger Goodell is signed until four I think
Thursday Night Football is a good addition. I don't want
it to go. I don't want it to disappear. It's
worth five million dollars, so players are being paid a
lot for these games. But if I were Roger Goodell
(02:13):
in this offseason, as a gesture of goodwill towards the players,
I would make the decision to extend the season by
one week, and I would guarantee that everybody has a
buy before their Thursday Night Football game I think that
that is a uh sort of an olive branch that
can be extended out by Roger Goodell to try to
(02:37):
help player and owner and league representatives have a better
relationship as they head into the new collective bargaining agreement negotiations.
And I believe now some of you may say, well,
if Roger Goodell smart, he should save that as a
as a gesture of goodwill for one, because it'll make
(02:58):
the owners in the league look better they offer that
two players as part of their new collective bargaining agreement.
I would agree that that's something that could be saved
as part of the overall collective bargaining agreement. But to me,
this represents a better decision because it goes ahead and
resolves this issue before it continues to grow and or
(03:20):
before more guys get injured seriously next year in Thursday
night football games. Um, I just think it makes a
tremendous amount of sense. And I you know, again, the
opening week of the season, you play a Thursday night
football game, So that's fine, right, those guys don't need
a bye week. And then the rest of the season
(03:42):
you just give a bye week to every team as
they get ready for that game. I just think it
makes tremendous amounts of sense. That would be one of
my ways that I could make the NFL better as
we head into now. Look, there are a lot of
great games that are gonna happen this weekend, most notably
the game that we really haven't spent that much time
talking about because there's been a lot of other stories
(04:04):
with the Patriots going on the road against the Steelers,
and it's gonna soak up almost all the attention. Although
there are a lot of really kind of intriguing games,
obviously the Rams going on the road against the Seahawks,
lots of drama still to come from. What happens in
the a f C West with the Chargers, who started
oh and four going on the road against the Kansas
(04:24):
City Chiefs, And uh, we'll see what happens in the
a f C South between the Titans and the forty Niners,
And what happens with the Jags, can they make a
run and finished twelve and four? All of that to
be determined in uh Sunday's NFL Action, And I think
that those are gonna be fantastic games. I mean, I
can't wait to see what's gonna happen in the past
(04:46):
Steelers game because I believe whoever wins that game will
be the representative for the a f C in the
Super Bowl. And oddsmakers actually agree with me that it's
a tremendous difference between whether or not you have to
go through Pittsburgh or whether or not you have to
go through New England. So there's lots to look forward
to in the weekend to come. In the NFL, we
also have everything surrounding the college bull season starting on Saturday,
(05:11):
and that seems to have gotten here fairly quickly, and
that will be a great jumping off point to see
exactly what transpires as we work our way through the
college bull season. Win Eventually, there's a game in college
football on television virtually every night throughout the holiday season
and beyond. But the story that's probably gonna get the
most attention on Friday in the world of sports Lebron
(05:35):
James playing against Alonzo Ball the Cleveland Cavaliers. Lebron James
remember a free agent at the end of this season.
The expectation has been as Lebron brought a bought a
new mansion in l A that Lebron wants to move
to l A to kind of further his post basketball career.
He's been involved in in several different media related stories.
(05:58):
He's founded company in l A designed to be in
the entertainment business. He obviously can get a meeting with
anybody that he wants in l A. And it would
appear that there is substantial interest between Lebron James and
the Lakers, Lebron James and the city of Los Angeles. Well,
knowing all of that, first of all, Lebron had a
secret conversation with Lonzo where they picked up their their
(06:22):
jerseys and covered their mouths so they could have a
conversation that nobody could lip read, which is just so
Lebron it hurts. But then after the game, Lebron was
asked about Wonzo and he specifically said, well, you need
to hear it yourself, because he knew how quickly what
he said would spread like wildfire throughout the NBA because
Lebron's free agency will be the number one story again
(06:44):
in the off season. And here's what Lebron James said
about Wonzo ball. We saw you had a moment with
a Lonzo there. What did you have to say to him?
I didn't tell him anything. It's not for everybody. There's
enough noise out there already was so and it's not
for men discuss. Uh. But you know he has a
bright future. And like ill said the other day of
my quotes, and uh, you know, they've got a bunch
(07:06):
of young guys and they don't stop running. I'll tell
you that. So um And I think Lebron also said
he's the kind of guy you like to play with.
Right as the second part of his audio, do we
have that audio as well? Sometimes? Uh? It is It
is fascinating to see what audio makes the rundown and
what doesn't. We also have Alonzo Ball talking about his uh,
(07:30):
his relationship with Lebron. He was asked about that conversation
after the game, and Alonzo had this to say, I
know this, Lebrin grabbed you after the game on the court.
What do you say to you? You didn't tell me anything,
just a good game and kind of slapped hands. That's it. Well,
if he did tell him anything, all of our Ball
will be telling us exactly what the conversation was within
(07:51):
the next within the next probably before this show ends.
This morning of our Ball be tweeting out exactly what
the conversation was between the two guys, UM the the
other aspect to that quote, and evidently we don't have
that audio ready to roll right now. That I thought
was maybe the most intriguing of that entire conversation, and
that interchange between Lebron and UH and obviously Alonzo Ball
(08:14):
was Lebron basically saying he's the kind of guy you
want to play with. UM And obviously that is AH,
that's a that's gonna be taken as a serious endorsement,
even if it wasn't intended to be a serious endorsement
of the Lebron James and UH and and where he
might go in the in the wake of this, UH,
(08:35):
this kind of game, in this kind of incident. We'll
find that audio for you will play it in the
next segment and UH And you know, obviously Alonso looks
in many ways at Lebron James, like Lebron James used
to look at Michael Jordan's or like Kobe Bryant used
to look at Michael Jordan's. It's interesting to see that
(08:56):
evolution in the NBA game because Alonso is only nineteen
years old, which you think about, it's crazy Alonso. I
think was born in if I'm doing the math correctly
here in like nineteen is unbelievable, right like or thereabouts.
So he's come of age almost entirely with Lebron James.
He has no recollection whatsoever of Michael Jordan's and that
(09:19):
is a that's a intriguing situation. Here's what Lebron said
about a Lonzo. UM asked what he admires the most
about a Lonzo ball quote, he passes the ball, pushes
the ball up the floor. Someone you want to play with.
This is a team game. Everyone gets cost so caught
up in this whole individual thing, and it's the whole
team game gets overlooked. But then I'm not gonna go there.
(09:41):
But the fact that he said someone you want to
play with is gonna be run with like crazy. In
the city of Los Angeles. Be sure to catch live
editions of I Would Kick the Coverage with Clay Travis
weekdays at six am Eastern three a'm Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. By the way,
there's a story allege ing um some really inappropriate conduct
(10:04):
by ESPN employees potentially and also unfairness in the way
that they have treated women in their time in Bristol.
That is in the Boston Globe that came out last night.
You can go read that. I imagine that it will
be a primary topic of conversation as we move into
the full Friday. Uh. That story Boston Globe dot com.
(10:27):
If you just type in on Google ESPN Boston Globe,
it will come up and you can read it. And
some of the stories in there about the way that
ESPN treated female employees who were pregnant was pretty pretty, uh,
pretty difficult to read. I think if you are a
if you are a woman, and uh, it's obviously going
(10:48):
to increase the pressure on ESPN. Now. They're also allegations
in there about particular behavior by male employees at ESPN.
I'm gonna be fair here. I actually didn't think inc
that they had behaved in the two employees that were
that were mentioned in that story. I actually didn't think
they had behaved and in an incredibly inappropriate fashion. Um
(11:11):
and ESPN has even taken the next step this late
last night of publishing all of the text messages between
one of their anchors, John Butcher Butcher Booky Gross Butcher Ghosts.
I I probably just butcher gross, Yeah what whatever? Um?
And uh? And this girl that also worked at the
(11:31):
ESPN who was alleged inappropriate behavior. And I read those
and I read those texts, and a couple of things
came to mind. One does every guy now in America
have to save every text exchange that he sent to
a woman? Because if you didn't have the text exchange,
(11:52):
is that a situation where you would be in trouble? Right?
I mean I don't know the answer to this. I
don't know how long I phone own or text message
interchanges are saved. So a lot of times what I
do is just a clear data And I'm probably sure
a lot of you guys do the same thing. I
go in and delete texts, you know, So if I've
been talking to somebody for a long time, I don't
(12:15):
have every text message that I've ever sent them. I
just don't think that makes a lot of sense. Maybe
some of you guys do keep your long text interchanges
with people for forever. But if I were a guy
who was dating girls now, and and as certainly if
I was dating somebody who worked at my place of business,
I almost think that you should keep every text you
(12:35):
ever sent to them just as evidence of whether or
not your text exchanges were appropriate or not, so that
everybody can go into it and read the context behind
what you said. Because her allegations against him in the
article standing alone can sound inappropriate, but if you go
read the context of their text conversation, it doesn't seem
(12:58):
inappropriate at all to me. So maybe I'm again, maybe
I'm wrong when I read that, but I'm trying to
read it and in almost the position that I would
be in if I were a jury on a trial
trying to analyze if someone was sexually harassed and I
didn't think his behavior was that inappropriate at all. If
I read that text exchange, the other thing is And
that's frankly why I haven't shared the article on my
(13:19):
own Twitter feed, because I read it and I was like, man,
there's some stuff in here that's that's uncomfortable. But I
also feel like we're in an era now where if
you're a guy and everybody broadcasts accusations against you, everybody
believes them. You know. It's it's it's this crazy place.
And I was talking about this the other day, where
we've moved very rapidly in the wake of the Harvey
(13:40):
Weinstein story, which is spiraled across so many different organizations
where and again I would like people to think about
this and asked, does it make sense where for a
long time women said, Hey, nobody believed us because we're women,
And now we've moved into an era where everyone is
(14:01):
believing these accusations because these are women. And I'm asking
you the question, does it make sense? Isn't that just
as bad? Isn't it just as bad to not believe
somebody because they're a woman as it is to believe
someone because they're a woman. We've swung right past truth
and fairness and justice in America today, and I think
(14:24):
this is not just true of women's allegations in general.
I think it's true when we do that for any race, sex, gender, ethnicity, religion, uh,
anybody who sexual orientation. You have to look at the
individual facts of every case, and you can't allow a
case to stand in as an example of, oh, this
(14:45):
is this is what's so prevalent and sexual harassment and
society where you automatically believe a woman just because she
is a woman. I just I don't think that makes sense.
So the reason why I bring that up is I
think if you look at all the text interchanges between uh,
this this ESPN employee, what'd you say? His name is
butche gross close to it whatever, that's a tough name
(15:06):
to pronounce. That's as close as you're gonna get from
me this early in the morning. Um. And also there's
a story in there about Matthew Berry, who's a fantasy
sports guy, supposedly going to a strip club with with
a woman, with some women. Yeah, after interviewing and having
a dinner. Now, I understand in general, like the idea
(15:26):
that you shouldn't do that when you're interviewing an employee.
That was probably a bad move after dinner. But is
it now not not allowed for a guy to go
to a strip club with co workers? I mean that honestly,
Like I have been to strip clubs all over the
place right, Not like I go there regularly, but every
time I've been to Las Vegas in the last decade,
(15:47):
I've probably ended up in a strip club. Just f y.
I I've gone to strip clubs with co workers of
both sexes before, in groups too. Is that now sexual harassment?
Wouldn't it be sexual harassment if you're going so where
and you don't invite everybody to go with you. I mean,
I mean, that's that's an honest question. Like I'll give
you an example. We have done uh television um in
(16:10):
Vegas when I was with FS one, And first of all,
it's Vegas, so people go out to clubs. You know,
your lifestyle is different in Vegas than it might be otherwise.
I have done like a night where we finished the
finish the show in Las Vegas and then a group
of people say, okay, let's go out and get some
dinner and drinks, and then an additional group going on
to a strip club. To me, you offer the right
(16:32):
for anybody to go. If they don't want to go,
they don't have to go. But is that sexual harassment?
Is that the standard now? Where if you go to
if you're a guy and you go to a strip
club in Vegas and you offer for the female employees
who were also there, like, Hey, we just finished dinner,
we've had some drinks. I think we're gonna go to
a strip club? Is that sexual harassment? Now? Wouldn't it be?
I mean, I'm asking this question honestly. Wouldn't it be
(16:54):
unfair to go to a strip club and be like, oh,
and we're going to a strip club and old women
are allowed to go, Like we're excluding women from the
offer to go to this? Uh to go to the
strip club? And look, I say this as a guy
who did sexual harassment training UM and seminars for companies,
like to me, I treat men and women the exact same,
(17:17):
for better or worse, right, And so if I'm gonna
do anything and there's a female co worker there, I'm
gonna offer her the opportunity to go wherever we want
as well. Now, if you don't want to go, that's fine.
But is it sexual harassment now to offer a female
co worker when you're in Las Vegas? This is probably
something that a lot of people think about, right, Like
there are all sorts of conventions that go on in
Las Vegas. There's all sorts of going out and drinking
(17:40):
and going to have food and everything else. If if
you go out to a strip club now like that?
Because I read that Boston Globe article and I was like, Okay,
I see that story, but why is that? Is it
inappropriate to go now to a strip club with co workers?
Is that not allowed in the article? It is? When
the article if she's if what she's saying is correct.
She says she doesn't know that's where they were going,
(18:02):
and then as soon as they got there, she was
teased about being uncomfortable. So that would be a little
bit different, right, Like, obviously, if you can sent to
go that, that's not knowing where you're heading, you have
the right to not go, right. But I'm saying, if
you're in a car with somebody, or you're going to
whatever you think it is. It was after a company
outing apparently with a lot of different employees and several
(18:24):
of the males, I guess and Barry may have gone
to this deal, but she claims that she didn't know
they were going to a strip club. To me, that
would make it different. I don't know how you prove
something like that. I'm just suggesting that that would be
different if you think you're going one place. But I don't.
I don't in my entire life, I don't ever remember
being in a car with a woman and taking her
somewhere where she didn't know where we were going, right.
(18:48):
I don't remember how many times I've gotten I don't
think I've ever gotten into a car or an uber
and gone somewhere and had no idea where where I
was going, right, And so that's true, right, I mean,
but I'm saying that seems like a story that would
be a little bit odd, right, Like, So if that's true,
if they got into a car and she didn't have
any idea where they were going, they're like, Okay, hey,
(19:09):
the night's not over, We're gonna get in a car
and go somewhere else, and then she's like, she doesn't
say where, Like that just seems strange to me. I
don't know, Jim Sturgeon. I I like her. I've done
a couple of different shows with her at f S one,
So I'm not disparaging her story. I'm just saying that
would seem like a strange kind of like that to me,
that's next level, right, Like to me, that seems like
(19:30):
a strange kind of situation where you get into a
car having no idea where you're going, and then like, okay,
you have dinner and people are like, hey, we're gonna
go out and have another couple of drinks. You in
and everybody's like yeah, sure, let's go, and nobody says like, hey,
where are we going? And the next thing you know,
you pull up at a strip club. That's a little
bit different if that actually happened in that story. Okay,
that that feels strange, But maybe the answer is also
(19:53):
when you're interviewing somebody, then I haven't ever done that,
Like where you the interviewee feels like they have to
do whatever you suggest because they want to go to
get a job. That also would be a different context.
But I feel like you see what I'm saying here,
I feel like we're in an era where if you
make a suggestion, like even if you say, hey, we're
(20:15):
gonna go to a strip club, people are like, oh,
that's that's sexual harassment. You can't do that. And I
just I think that that would that that would actually
be And this is I'm I'm gonna put a phone
lines on this, and I'm actually gonna open up phone
lines on this eight seven seven three six nine. I
actually think the unfair thing would be if you didn't
offer the person that you were with the opportunity to
(20:37):
go with you as well, right, I mean to me, like,
and I'm using Vegas as an example, it may be
different if you're in Topeka on a random Wednesday night, Like, Okay,
that's not somewhere where you would typically kind of end up.
I feel like Vegas is a place where people do
things that are more risk ay than they would maybe
in their their home base. Then if you're in a
(20:58):
buffalo on a Tuesday night, or if you're in you know,
there are lots of things in Vegas which are normal
in Vegas that would not be normal elsewhere. I think
going to a strip club is normal behavior in Vegas.
Some of you out there may say, Oh, that's totally crazy,
it's not normal behavior. I think it's also normal behavior
in Vegas to sit with a coworker and gamble. That's
something that you probably wouldn't do elsewhere. I think it's
(21:20):
normal behavior in Vegas to maybe go to a show
where there's nudity involved that isn't even a you know,
quote unquote like strip club or anything like. You could
go see Zumanity and they come out topless, right, that's
probably something you wouldn't do at a normal company event.
So if you're doing a company event in Vegas, that
is a different kind of standard. And so anyway, I'm
(21:42):
using this an example because you go in and you
look at all the circumstances and the allegations against one
of the guys who's a SportsCenter anchor. I went and
read all the text interchange, and I'm thinking to myself,
my god, does every man who has any relationship at
all with a woman at his place of business now
have to say every text message he's ever sent so
(22:02):
that if he gets accused of inappropriate behavior, he can
provide that private conversation to his employer and say, oh, no, no,
I didn't do anything inappropriate. And also on the on
the other front, if you are out with a group
of people, uh, and I think they were in Charlotte
or something like that, are you not allowed to make
a decision to go to a strip club with co workers?
(22:24):
Is that considered sexual harassment? Now? She I mean, she's claiming,
she's claiming. It's arresting. But the thing that that stands
out about that one part of it says or she
says that she and Matthew Berry were both admonished for
the strip club about and whether or not you believe
that should have happened or not, she didn't get a
job and Matthew Berry did because they were both interviewing
at the same time. ESPN said they chose another woman
(22:46):
who had more experience, but send an email uh saying
that Sturgier could have improved her chances by showing more
professional behavior. And then Barry became senior fantasy analysts and
one of the most influential persons in fantasy sports. That
coming from the Boston Globe article, So that that's interesting.
I don't know that she's necessarily talking about how objectionable
being at the strip club was as opposed to the
(23:07):
fact that he didn't seem to get the same treatment
as she did after the fact, So that might be
a little bit of a nuance between those two Bury
that was a little bit worse. Yeah, But I mean again,
like I under like going after I just feel like
we have moved into an era where like we're so
(23:28):
diving into the details of every single interaction that I
read the text interchange between the sports center anchor and
this woman who's filed the lawsuit of inappropriate behavior, and
I'm like, I don't see anything bad here. Now, maybe
you can say there's something bad and that you should
never date anybody that you work with, all right, I'm
not willing to accept that standard, right because a ton
(23:51):
of people listening right now. End up married to the
people they work with. And also I'm not willing to
accept the standard that if you're a guy and you
go to a strip club with a co worker, that
you've somehow committed a huge issue of sexual harassment, like
the standard of sexual harassment, and what I'm getting at
here is expanding to the point where there's behavior that
(24:14):
I don't think is harassive at all that immediately gets
accepted as being in the wrong. And look, I haven't
been in any way lenient towards ESPN. I think it's
fair to say. But when I read the accusations against
both these guys published in a major newspaper, which will
undoubtedly embarrass them and also embarrass their families and everybody else.
(24:36):
I read this and I was like, this to me,
doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of sexual harassment.
I'm curious if people agree with me. Eight seven seven
six three six nine. By the way, men and women,
I don't know. I mean, again, the crazy thing and
the difficult thing about sexual harassment in general. And I
used to do seminars to try to teach in house
(24:57):
UH sexual harassment related issues, and I also did sex
a harassment investigations. So I know that it's a very
serious issue, but it's in the mind of the accuser.
So as a man, think about how rare you're very
good at explaining what your wife or girlfriend is going
to think about a situation. Think about the sexes and
(25:17):
how often their minds are in different places in general,
And to me, I just I I really wonder when
I read this Boston Globe story, I was like, man,
I'm sure that there is serious sexual harassment issues that
have gone on at ESPN. I'm not sure this Boston
Globe story is is probing them in that way. Now,
there are several stories in there that are awful um
(25:39):
about how women who were instant, for instance, were pregnant,
were treated differently, all those things. That's structural. That's a
major issue inside of ESPN in general. And I think
certainly pregnancy is a challenging issue for many people at
many different companies all over the country, and our way
that we deal with maternity leave and paternity leave and
everything else when you have children. I've certainly dealt with
(26:01):
that in my own life in terms of the way
that my wife had to you know, she didn't get
maternity leave when we had kids, um, and so she
had to use her her health, you know, her her
vacation days to be able to take off time when
we had our first two kids. And I thought that
was crazy, you know, I thought that it was crazy
that you couldn't just get a specific amount of time
of a maternity leave like uh, and everybody has different
(26:24):
policies and and that obviously is an issue for ESPN.
If I were running ESPN, given how wealthy that company is,
if somebody has a baby, I would try to be
as as uh as as as forthcoming and forth right
and and lenient as you could possibly be, while understanding
obviously that running a business is difficult if you have
(26:45):
tons of employees that also were out on maternity and
paternityly so all these things I read that story were
to me fascinating, But I think we've already moved into
an era where you end up with uh with you know,
kind of maybe we'll read some of those text messages
um as I was reading him this morning that ESPN released,
UM and I can read them to you and you
(27:06):
can be like, yeah, that sounds like a normal conversation
that a guy trying to date a girl might have
didn't sound inappropriate at all. Be sure to catch live
editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays at
six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking about a
big story in the Boston Globe alleging a hostile work
environment for women at ESPN. Now, I'm not dismissing every
(27:26):
aspect of this story. I think if you are pregnant
and you were treated as several of the women in
this story were, I think that's unacceptable. Okay, I'm not
saying that ESPN is perfect, but in particular, there are
two male employees named in this article, John Butchery Gross
whose name I Baby butchering Um, and also Matthew Berry,
(27:48):
and both of those guys are still employed at ESPN.
One of the co workers of the SportsCenter anchor, we'll
call him Bucci Uh, made allegations that he had behaved
inappropriately in a lawsuit that he has filed. ESPN investigated,
reviewed the evidence and said they found that he had
not behaved inappropriately. Late last night, they also took the
(28:08):
next step of releasing the text messages between the two
and I just read a few of them. I we
shared the link here on the show early this morning,
and we're using this as a jumping off point about
the larger cultural discussion going on about sexual harassment in
the workplace. My position in general is that we have
rapidly moved from an era when you read a lot
(28:30):
of the stuff about Harvey Weinstein or Frankly Matt Lauer
or a lot of the other men who have lost
their jobs. You read those and you say, oh, yeah,
those guys have to go. You can't do that at
the job. But I think we've moved rapidly, in the
space of two or three weeks into a story like
the one I read about the Boston Globe where Butcher
Gross is being accused of inappropriate behavior for dating a
(28:55):
co worker at the time at a ESPN and you
read the text messages and they aren't inappropriate. And then also, uh,
you have a situation where Matthew Berry is accused of
behaving inappropriately because he went to a strip club with
co workers. And again, if that's the standard, I'm like,
why is that sexual harassment? Now? Some of you are
(29:16):
Somebody just tweeted me and said and and Jen Sturger,
who used to be at Florida State Cowgirl, was involved
in this story. Uh, somebody just texted me Jen Sturgier
can't complain about sexual harassment when she posed for Playboy
and Maxim. Well that's just not true, all right. That
the part of the problem here is that you're dealing
with human emotions and the law, which is always challenging.
(29:37):
Let me just reiterate this, just because a woman posed
nude for Playboy doesn't mean she can't be sexually harassed.
And I mean, truth of Maxim, like you was in
Maxim in a bikini model and she got al Frankenhousted.
I mean, it doesn't matter what you did, you can
you can be harassed no matter what you do for
a living. Well, I mean you can make a choice
(30:00):
opposed nude and still be treated inappropriately at your job,
just like by the and then by the way, the
logic on this this flawed is you could say like, oh,
well she was asking for did you see what she
was wearing. Yeah, that's not a good line of defense.
That's the wrong angle to take here. So that's I'm
not saying that that because of Jen Sturger's background that
(30:22):
I think going to the strip club was a problem.
What I'm saying is I don't believe that that sexual
harassment myself. If you put me on a jury and
you said so these co workers they went out for
dinner and then they decided they wanted to have drinks
afterwards and they went to the strip club. Is that
sexual harassment? No, I I don't think so. I mean,
(30:42):
look now, if what she's saying that she got into
a car, she had no idea where she was going,
and when she showed up at the strip club and
she didn't want to go in, that it was sexual harassment.
I think that gets into like what was the actual vibe.
Was she like, legitimately not wanting to go in and
they grabbed her and they dragged her in, well, that
it's inappropriate, all right? Or was she like I'm not
sure if I'm gonna go in and a couple of
(31:04):
guys are like, hey, we're gonna have drinks. There's other
girls in here, you should come in, and she's like,
I don't know if I want to come in, and
they're like, come on, if you don't want to go,
that's fine, and then she felt pressured to go in
and she's like, that's sexual harassment. I think that's a
more challenging situation. Um. But my point in a larger
context here is we have to maintain our sanity in
(31:24):
an era when it's easy for a woman right now, frankly,
to accuse a man of sexual harassment, and for a company,
especially if it's a prominent employee and the ESPN knows
they're gonna get an article written about them, to just
kick him to the curb. But I think the evidence,
at least that's public right now that we can look
at these text messages, I don't think he did anything inappropriate.
(31:47):
Let's go out to l A. Jason Martin. You said
you think about this because you're a single guy. I
think about it because I'm a married guy. Like you know,
every text me, every email that I send at this
point in time, honestly, I think would I be okay
with this going book on a on a website, Because
I've attained a certain level of prominence, and if I
do something that people are like, oh my god, Clay
(32:08):
Travis behaved inappropriately, it could be a lead story on
dead Spin or some other site that doesn't like me.
It just could. And so every email that I send,
in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, would I
be okay with this email going public now, the standard
for me is probably a lot different than the standard
is for other people. By the way, too, because I
try to leave my live my life openly and just
be honest about everything that I do. So I think
(32:30):
most of the time, if you guys read my emails,
you'd be like, Yeah, that's exactly what I expect Clay
Travis to sound like. He sounds the exact same on
the radio show U, he sounds the exact same on
his periscope and Facebook show. He sounds the exact same
in his articles, like I try to live my life,
so there's not that much difference frankly between my public
and my private life. I don't think that if you
talk to me at a bar, I would sound much
(32:52):
different than I do on the radio show every morning.
And that's because I try to be as honest as
possible every day. But not everybody has the freedom to
be as honest as I do in their jobs. And
so when I see a situation like this, I actually
have to say props to ESPN for standing up for
their employee. And moreover, given the criticism that you know
they're gonna get and how big this story is gonna be.
(33:14):
I gotta give them props for releasing the text messages
because then everybody can just go read them. I just
tweeted out the link, uh to the big lead my
guy Jason McIntire site. They put up the text messages,
and I gotta tell you, I don't see anything wrong
with these text messages at all, um in the grand
scheme of things. Now, would I call a girl doll face?
Probably not, because it sounds like something my my grandfather
(33:35):
would have said. But you know, could I see myself
if I were dating a girl complimenting her on her
looks even though she was a co worker? Yeah? Could
I see me complimenting on her having long legs? Yeah?
I mean again, you can go read these text messages
for yourself. We've read a couple of them. Uh, what's
your position on this? L A, am I crazier? Are
you guys in agreement with me here that there doesn't
seem to be much wrong? Yeah? Hey, hey Clay and
(33:58):
uh Jason, I was sam here. I so let's let's
separate all these things. I want to just say the
Matthew Berry thing? Am I am I correct here? When
I'm saying that he was interviewing a woman for a
position and on the same day brought her to a
strip club. As that I don't I don't know the
full details. I don't know if he had the if like,
if he had the opportunity and ability to make a
(34:19):
decision in the hiring situation, I don't know. Like I'll
just and again, I don't know the specifics behind this,
and I would agree that that's a little bit of
of a different kind of caliber behavior. What usually happens,
I'll say this when you are doing like a search
for an interview process or like conducting an interview process
is and television they bring in like forty people and
(34:42):
do a ton of different pilots if they're talking about
doing a new show, that's oftentimes what happens. And so
I've been on I bet, I bet, I have filmed
fifty pilots with FS one for a variety of different
shows over the last six or seventy years, whatever of
the math is, however long FS one has existed. When
(35:02):
they were initially starting the network, they brought out a
ton of people and they would do all these different
panels where you would sit, they would record them. They
go back and watch analyze how you did. Then, I've
been on a ton of different pilots for Cowherd shows,
whitlock shows. You know, you've done a lot of those
different things. A lot of times. There are multiple people
there speaking as somebody who has been on those pilots
(35:24):
and also speaking as talent. In general, I don't think
very many guys have the ability to say this is
the person I want and get them or girls for
that matter, if the if the suits don't agree. In
other words, calling Cowherd is insanely successful, right. I don't
think necessarily that calling Cowherd can say I want this
person and I want you know, like, I don't think
(35:45):
calling Cowherd has hiring and firing decisions, even even calling Cowherd, right,
and so I think that if Colin doesn't necessarily have
hiring and firing decisions, he can give his opinion the
suits can consider it. I just find it hard to
believe that Matthew Berry at that time just a fantasy
guy and they're talking about doing a daily fantasy show.
(36:06):
I don't think he would have been high up enough
to have hiring and firing authority. So when when they
says it's an interview. I think it's different if you
are a superior, Like, I agree completely. If you're a
superior and you bring in a girl for an interview
and you guys go out to dinner and then you're like, and,
by the way, I think that's a little bit weird
to go out to dinner just the two of you. Anyway,
I think you should probably just interview at the at
(36:26):
the office. But let's say you interview at the office
and then you're like, Hey, afterwards, I'm gonna go get
a drink. Do you want to come out for a drink?
I think that puts the woman in an awkward position
because then she feels like she has to go to dinner.
She has to feel like she has to go get
a drink with you because you're in a position of
power over her, and she feels like, is this continue
continuing the interview? Do I have to be cool? Do
(36:48):
I have to agree to hang out with this guy?
Do I have to spend time with him in order
to get a job? Then that would be inappropriate. What
I am reading this is not Matthew Berry is a
suit sitting in an office making a hiring and firing
to site and I'm seeing this as they were basically
filming a pilot. Jen Sturgeer was one of the people
on the pilot. And again, if I'm wrong, I could
be could be misreading this, but this is the danger
(37:09):
of reading stories like these in the newspaper. And then
they decided as a group, let's go out and get
some drinks and dinner after we did this pilot. And
then from there they decided to go to a strip club.
I've done a bunch of pilots. Uh. We did an
OutKick pilot, and everybody who was on that pilot went
out for dinner and drinks afterwards. Now we didn't go
to a strip club, but we went out for dinner
and drinks afterwards to be like, hey, I thought we
(37:31):
did a really good job. Here, let's talk about how
we thought the pilot went. And that was guys and
girls too, and you know, like, I don't think there
there's anything inappropriate about that. And by the way, I
don't think I put people in awkward shape because even
when I was doing that pilot, I didn't control hiring
and firing decisions. I could be like, hey, I thought
this person was good, but my opinion would just be
(37:51):
waited like somebody else's opinion in a suit. Now, I
think the more powerful you are, like I said, Colin
is a great example. I think Colin could close to
be able to pickhever he wants. But I still think
the suits would look at it and say, we don't
necessarily like that. And I'll give you an example before,
Like I was pitched having my own morning show on
FS one, and I liked a couple of different guys
(38:13):
that I wanted to do the show with, and I said, man,
I think this is gonna be really good. I'd like
to do the show with I'll just say it. I mean,
I've talked about it. I'd like to do the show
with Eddie George. Eddie George and I did a pilot.
We did a show together, and the suits came back
and said, we don't think you and Eddie will be
very good. I disagreed with them, but I wasn't powerful
enough to be like, hey, I want Eddie. And then
(38:33):
I wasn't willing to let somebody else pick a co
host for me. And you can say that's crazy, but
I've done enough television and enough radio that if I'm
gonna be working with somebody every day. I want to
make sure that I have a good working relationship with somebody,
and so I've passed on opportunities because they've been like, Hey,
we want you to do this, but we're gonna pick
somebody else for you to work with. I'm not gonna
(38:55):
do that. And you can say that's crazy, like, oh,
just take television show, do whatever. No. I mean, like,
if I'm going to go to work every day and
do a television show or a radio show for that matter,
I want to know the people that I work with,
and so, uh, you know, I may not be high
enough on the flow chart to be able to do that.
But I answering your question, I was Sam, that's kind
of circling around and explaining, uh what I think the
(39:16):
context of that was as I read it. Sure, Yeah, listen,
you have to judge the tone, and that goes to
not only John boucher Grass situation with the text messages,
but also whether or not you have a female colleague
or subordinate, whatever it may be, and what whether that
if it's comfortable or if it seems appropriate to take
that person to a strip club. I mean, you really
(39:37):
have to have like a friendly working relationship to to
have that be okay with everybody. Um, and again there's
like power, there's a power dynamic here in play. So
strip club like there's nudity involved. Is that is that
safe for work? So to speak? Like there's all these
questions that kind of go through your mind. And maybe
I don't know if he went he if he made
the right decision in trying to take someone to a
strip club. I mean, for me, that's different than the
(39:59):
butcher Grass stuff. I mean, the Bitchgrass stuff seemed like
more uh like friendly banter, flirtatious banter. And we read
through a Justin and I read through it during the break.
It didn't seem like a whole lot of red flags
like the doll face and the long legs thing. Maybe,
but really I think these two things are are a
little bit different. I can see that. Um. But again,
(40:19):
I just am looking at this in the context of
these guys did a pilot. They went out to get
dinner and drinks and then they decided, Hey, you know what,
let's go to a strip club. And you know, maybe
Jen Starger didn't want to go, and I think you
know that that's always an interesting question is when can
you just divide the line between your work and your
private life. There are a lot of people out there
who are like, man, I don't want to go to
my holiday party, right, Like, but you feel like you're
(40:42):
obligated to have to go to your holiday party for Christmas.
You're like, man, I already work here. I already come
here and work fifty hours. I guarantee. There's a ton
of people out there listening to me right now who
were driving into work on a Friday and they've got
a holiday party that they're going to after work today,
and they're like, the last thing I want to have
to do when I finished work after a long week
is go hang out with the people that I work with,
(41:03):
because I can't stand a lot of these people, right,
I mean, that's normal. A lot of people have jobs
they don't like the people they work with. And but
you also, I guarantee you, I guarantee you. There are
thousands of people driving to work right now across the
country listening to this show in this exact situation. They're like,
I've got to go to a holiday party. How long
do I have to stay? You know, maybe you're bringing
your spouse with you, and you're like, Hey, we gotta
(41:24):
make an appearance at this company holiday party. I only
want to stay for forty five minutes. We gotta go
talk to the boss, we gotta go have a drink,
walk around, don't be a grinch, uh, say hi to everybody,
and then we're out. And that's probably especially true in
this modern era we're in right now, where there's a
lot of people walking into holiday parties, Like, the last
thing I want to do is have some drinks, and
(41:44):
the next thing you know, I'm getting accused of sexual
harassment because I said something inappropriate to a co worker.
I'd rather have a beer, maybe not even any alcohol
at all, and then just get out of here and
go on with my private life. And I think that's
a question that lots of people have in general. Um
that that totally uh, it makes sense in a larger context.
I'm gonna take your calls. We're also gonna play you
this Warren Sap audio so we can have a little
(42:06):
bit of fun with this. Warren Sapp was accused in
a lawsuit filed in the NFL Network case, which by
the way, is infinitely more significant than this story from
The Boston Globe, alleging inappropriate behavior at the NFL Network.
Warren sap, and this is an unbelievable fact to me.
Accused of giving a female coworker a sex toy as
(42:26):
a Christmas present for three straight years, that by itself
is just an amazing play. Warren SAPs like, I'm gonna
give you a sex toy once doesn't stick with it,
comes back with another sex toy in year three, and
then a third sex toy, uh in in year three.
That's a pretty unbelievable pull. I almost think it's easier
(42:47):
to defend three sex toys where you're just giving sex
toys all the time to people than it is one
sex toy. But he went on the radio and he
tried to defend himself
This is the best of out Kick the Coverage with
Clay Travis on Fox Sports Radio. Last night, I was
in the zone. I went to go see the new
Star Wars movie with my nine year old and my
seven year old. A lot of you probably over the
weekend either have or will go see that movie as
(00:21):
well as it rolls towards a billion dollars. Much to
get to on the Friday edition about Kicked the Coverage.
Big news, we talked about it some yesterday. The decision
by Disney to buy substantial assets of Fox. We'll talk
about that later in the show. We had the final
game of the Thursday Night Football package that nobody really
(00:44):
cared about, the Denver Broncos playing against the Indianapolis Colts.
Will discuss the overall impact of Thursday Night Football this
year now as we come into the final three games
of the season. We will also discuss Alonzo Ball and
Lebron Jay games having a secret conversation behind their jersey,
and Lebron as one of the great kind of drama
(01:07):
stokers of his generation and the quotes that he gave
after the Thursday Night game on the road against the Lakers,
and Lonzo Ball will Lebron be a hashtag future Laker.
I've been saying for a while that I believe that
he will will play the audio of that. We will
also continue to have fun with Warren Sap responding to
(01:29):
a sexual harassment allegation that he gave a woman a
a sex toy by saying no, no, no, no no, that's
a totally made up story. That's fake news. You need
to hear Warren Sap in his defense, and we will
play that for you. But I thought we probably should
start with Thursday Night Football coming to a close in
(01:50):
the NFL because it continues to be so controversial in
terms of its impact on the health of players, and
now that Roger Goodell is signed until four I think
Thursday Night Football is a good addition. I don't want
it to go. I don't want it to disappear. It's
worth five million dollars, so players are being paid a
lot for these games. But if I were Roger Goodell
(02:13):
in this offseason, as a gesture of goodwill towards the players,
I would make the decision to extend the season by
one week, and I would guarantee that everybody has a
buy before their Thursday Night Football game I think that
that is a uh sort of an olive branch that
can be extended out by Roger Goodell to try to
(02:37):
help player and owner and league representatives have a better
relationship as they head into the new collective bargaining agreement negotiations.
And I believe now some of you may say, well,
if Roger Goodell smart, he should save that as a
as a gesture of goodwill for one, because it'll make
(02:58):
the owners in the league look better they offer that
two players as part of their new collective bargaining agreement.
I would agree that that's something that could be saved
as part of the overall collective bargaining agreement. But to me,
this represents a better decision because it goes ahead and
resolves this issue before it continues to grow and or
(03:20):
before more guys get injured seriously next year in Thursday
night football games. Um, I just think it makes a
tremendous amount of sense. And I you know, again, the
opening week of the season, you play a Thursday night
football game, So that's fine, right, those guys don't need
a bye week. And then the rest of the season
(03:42):
you just give a bye week to every team as
they get ready for that game. I just think it
makes tremendous amounts of sense. That would be one of
my ways that I could make the NFL better as
we head into now. Look, there are a lot of
great games that are gonna happen this weekend, most notably
the game that we really haven't spent that much time
talking about because there's been a lot of other stories
(04:04):
with the Patriots going on the road against the Steelers,
and it's gonna soak up almost all the attention. Although
there are a lot of really kind of intriguing games,
obviously the Rams going on the road against the Seahawks,
lots of drama still to come from. What happens in
the a f C West with the Chargers, who started
oh and four going on the road against the Kansas
(04:24):
City Chiefs, And uh, we'll see what happens in the
a f C South between the Titans and the forty Niners,
And what happens with the Jags, can they make a
run and finished twelve and four? All of that to
be determined in uh Sunday's NFL Action, And I think
that those are gonna be fantastic games. I mean, I
can't wait to see what's gonna happen in the past
(04:46):
Steelers game because I believe whoever wins that game will
be the representative for the a f C in the
Super Bowl. And oddsmakers actually agree with me that it's
a tremendous difference between whether or not you have to
go through Pittsburgh or whether or not you have to
go through New England. So there's lots to look forward
to in the weekend to come. In the NFL, we
also have everything surrounding the college bull season starting on Saturday,
(05:11):
and that seems to have gotten here fairly quickly, and
that will be a great jumping off point to see
exactly what transpires as we work our way through the
college bull season. Win Eventually, there's a game in college
football on television virtually every night throughout the holiday season
and beyond. But the story that's probably gonna get the
most attention on Friday in the world of sports Lebron
(05:35):
James playing against Alonzo Ball the Cleveland Cavaliers. Lebron James
remember a free agent at the end of this season.
The expectation has been as Lebron brought a bought a
new mansion in l A that Lebron wants to move
to l A to kind of further his post basketball career.
He's been involved in in several different media related stories.
(05:58):
He's founded company in l A designed to be in
the entertainment business. He obviously can get a meeting with
anybody that he wants in l A. And it would
appear that there is substantial interest between Lebron James and
the Lakers, Lebron James and the city of Los Angeles. Well,
knowing all of that, first of all, Lebron had a
secret conversation with Lonzo where they picked up their their
(06:22):
jerseys and covered their mouths so they could have a
conversation that nobody could lip read, which is just so
Lebron it hurts. But then after the game, Lebron was
asked about Wonzo and he specifically said, well, you need
to hear it yourself, because he knew how quickly what
he said would spread like wildfire throughout the NBA because
Lebron's free agency will be the number one story again
(06:44):
in the off season. And here's what Lebron James said
about Wonzo ball. We saw you had a moment with
a Lonzo there. What did you have to say to him?
I didn't tell him anything. It's not for everybody. There's
enough noise out there already was so and it's not
for men discuss. Uh. But you know he has a
bright future. And like ill said the other day of
my quotes, and uh, you know, they've got a bunch
(07:06):
of young guys and they don't stop running. I'll tell
you that. So um And I think Lebron also said
he's the kind of guy you like to play with.
Right as the second part of his audio, do we
have that audio as well? Sometimes? Uh? It is It
is fascinating to see what audio makes the rundown and
what doesn't. We also have Alonzo Ball talking about his uh,
(07:30):
his relationship with Lebron. He was asked about that conversation
after the game, and Alonzo had this to say, I
know this, Lebrin grabbed you after the game on the court.
What do you say to you? You didn't tell me anything,
just a good game and kind of slapped hands. That's it. Well,
if he did tell him anything, all of our Ball
will be telling us exactly what the conversation was within
(07:51):
the next within the next probably before this show ends.
This morning of our Ball be tweeting out exactly what
the conversation was between the two guys, UM the the
other aspect to that quote, and evidently we don't have
that audio ready to roll right now. That I thought
was maybe the most intriguing of that entire conversation, and
that interchange between Lebron and UH and obviously Alonzo Ball
(08:14):
was Lebron basically saying he's the kind of guy you
want to play with. UM And obviously that is AH,
that's a that's gonna be taken as a serious endorsement,
even if it wasn't intended to be a serious endorsement
of the Lebron James and UH and and where he
might go in the in the wake of this, UH,
(08:35):
this kind of game, in this kind of incident. We'll
find that audio for you will play it in the
next segment and UH And you know, obviously Alonso looks
in many ways at Lebron James, like Lebron James used
to look at Michael Jordan's or like Kobe Bryant used
to look at Michael Jordan's. It's interesting to see that
(08:56):
evolution in the NBA game because Alonso is only nineteen
years old, which you think about, it's crazy Alonso. I
think was born in if I'm doing the math correctly
here in like nineteen is unbelievable, right like or thereabouts.
So he's come of age almost entirely with Lebron James.
He has no recollection whatsoever of Michael Jordan's and that
(09:19):
is a that's a intriguing situation. Here's what Lebron said
about a Lonzo. UM asked what he admires the most
about a Lonzo ball quote, he passes the ball, pushes
the ball up the floor. Someone you want to play with.
This is a team game. Everyone gets cost so caught
up in this whole individual thing, and it's the whole
team game gets overlooked. But then I'm not gonna go there.
(09:41):
But the fact that he said someone you want to
play with is gonna be run with like crazy. In
the city of Los Angeles. Be sure to catch live
editions of I Would Kick the Coverage with Clay Travis
weekdays at six am Eastern three a'm Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. By the way,
there's a story allege ing um some really inappropriate conduct
(10:04):
by ESPN employees potentially and also unfairness in the way
that they have treated women in their time in Bristol.
That is in the Boston Globe that came out last night.
You can go read that. I imagine that it will
be a primary topic of conversation as we move into
the full Friday. Uh. That story Boston Globe dot com.
(10:27):
If you just type in on Google ESPN Boston Globe,
it will come up and you can read it. And
some of the stories in there about the way that
ESPN treated female employees who were pregnant was pretty pretty, uh,
pretty difficult to read. I think if you are a
if you are a woman, and uh, it's obviously going
(10:48):
to increase the pressure on ESPN. Now. They're also allegations
in there about particular behavior by male employees at ESPN.
I'm gonna be fair here. I actually didn't think inc
that they had behaved in the two employees that were
that were mentioned in that story. I actually didn't think
they had behaved and in an incredibly inappropriate fashion. Um
(11:11):
and ESPN has even taken the next step this late
last night of publishing all of the text messages between
one of their anchors, John Butcher Butcher Booky Gross Butcher Ghosts.
I I probably just butcher gross, Yeah what whatever? Um?
And uh? And this girl that also worked at the
(11:31):
ESPN who was alleged inappropriate behavior. And I read those
and I read those texts, and a couple of things
came to mind. One does every guy now in America
have to save every text exchange that he sent to
a woman? Because if you didn't have the text exchange,
(11:52):
is that a situation where you would be in trouble? Right?
I mean I don't know the answer to this. I
don't know how long I phone own or text message
interchanges are saved. So a lot of times what I
do is just a clear data And I'm probably sure
a lot of you guys do the same thing. I
go in and delete texts, you know, So if I've
been talking to somebody for a long time, I don't
(12:15):
have every text message that I've ever sent them. I
just don't think that makes a lot of sense. Maybe
some of you guys do keep your long text interchanges
with people for forever. But if I were a guy
who was dating girls now, and and as certainly if
I was dating somebody who worked at my place of business,
I almost think that you should keep every text you
(12:35):
ever sent to them just as evidence of whether or
not your text exchanges were appropriate or not, so that
everybody can go into it and read the context behind
what you said. Because her allegations against him in the
article standing alone can sound inappropriate, but if you go
read the context of their text conversation, it doesn't seem
(12:58):
inappropriate at all to me. So maybe I'm again, maybe
I'm wrong when I read that, but I'm trying to
read it and in almost the position that I would
be in if I were a jury on a trial
trying to analyze if someone was sexually harassed and I
didn't think his behavior was that inappropriate at all. If
I read that text exchange, the other thing is And
that's frankly why I haven't shared the article on my
(13:19):
own Twitter feed, because I read it and I was like, man,
there's some stuff in here that's that's uncomfortable. But I
also feel like we're in an era now where if
you're a guy and everybody broadcasts accusations against you, everybody
believes them. You know. It's it's it's this crazy place.
And I was talking about this the other day, where
we've moved very rapidly in the wake of the Harvey
(13:40):
Weinstein story, which is spiraled across so many different organizations
where and again I would like people to think about
this and asked, does it make sense where for a
long time women said, Hey, nobody believed us because we're women,
And now we've moved into an era where everyone is
(14:01):
believing these accusations because these are women. And I'm asking
you the question, does it make sense? Isn't that just
as bad? Isn't it just as bad to not believe
somebody because they're a woman as it is to believe
someone because they're a woman. We've swung right past truth
and fairness and justice in America today, and I think
(14:24):
this is not just true of women's allegations in general.
I think it's true when we do that for any race, sex, gender, ethnicity, religion, uh,
anybody who sexual orientation. You have to look at the
individual facts of every case, and you can't allow a
case to stand in as an example of, oh, this
(14:45):
is this is what's so prevalent and sexual harassment and
society where you automatically believe a woman just because she
is a woman. I just I don't think that makes sense.
So the reason why I bring that up is I
think if you look at all the text interchanges between uh,
this this ESPN employee, what'd you say? His name is
butche gross close to it whatever, that's a tough name
(15:06):
to pronounce. That's as close as you're gonna get from
me this early in the morning. Um. And also there's
a story in there about Matthew Berry, who's a fantasy
sports guy, supposedly going to a strip club with with
a woman, with some women. Yeah, after interviewing and having
a dinner. Now, I understand in general, like the idea
(15:26):
that you shouldn't do that when you're interviewing an employee.
That was probably a bad move after dinner. But is
it now not not allowed for a guy to go
to a strip club with co workers? I mean that honestly,
Like I have been to strip clubs all over the
place right, Not like I go there regularly, but every
time I've been to Las Vegas in the last decade,
(15:47):
I've probably ended up in a strip club. Just f y.
I I've gone to strip clubs with co workers of
both sexes before, in groups too. Is that now sexual harassment?
Wouldn't it be sexual harassment if you're going so where
and you don't invite everybody to go with you. I mean,
I mean, that's that's an honest question. Like I'll give
you an example. We have done uh television um in
(16:10):
Vegas when I was with FS one, And first of all,
it's Vegas, so people go out to clubs. You know,
your lifestyle is different in Vegas than it might be otherwise.
I have done like a night where we finished the
finish the show in Las Vegas and then a group
of people say, okay, let's go out and get some
dinner and drinks, and then an additional group going on
to a strip club. To me, you offer the right
(16:32):
for anybody to go. If they don't want to go,
they don't have to go. But is that sexual harassment?
Is that the standard now? Where if you go to
if you're a guy and you go to a strip
club in Vegas and you offer for the female employees
who were also there, like, Hey, we just finished dinner,
we've had some drinks. I think we're gonna go to
a strip club? Is that sexual harassment? Now? Wouldn't it be?
I mean, I'm asking this question honestly. Wouldn't it be
(16:54):
unfair to go to a strip club and be like, oh,
and we're going to a strip club and old women
are allowed to go, Like we're excluding women from the
offer to go to this? Uh to go to the
strip club? And look, I say this as a guy
who did sexual harassment training UM and seminars for companies,
like to me, I treat men and women the exact same,
(17:17):
for better or worse, right, And so if I'm gonna
do anything and there's a female co worker there, I'm
gonna offer her the opportunity to go wherever we want
as well. Now, if you don't want to go, that's fine.
But is it sexual harassment now to offer a female
co worker when you're in Las Vegas? This is probably
something that a lot of people think about, right, Like
there are all sorts of conventions that go on in
Las Vegas. There's all sorts of going out and drinking
(17:40):
and going to have food and everything else. If if
you go out to a strip club now like that?
Because I read that Boston Globe article and I was like, Okay,
I see that story, but why is that? Is it
inappropriate to go now to a strip club with co workers?
Is that not allowed in the article? It is? When
the article if she's if what she's saying is correct.
She says she doesn't know that's where they were going,
(18:02):
and then as soon as they got there, she was
teased about being uncomfortable. So that would be a little
bit different, right, Like, obviously, if you can sent to
go that, that's not knowing where you're heading, you have
the right to not go, right. But I'm saying, if
you're in a car with somebody, or you're going to
whatever you think it is. It was after a company
outing apparently with a lot of different employees and several
(18:24):
of the males, I guess and Barry may have gone
to this deal, but she claims that she didn't know
they were going to a strip club. To me, that
would make it different. I don't know how you prove
something like that. I'm just suggesting that that would be
different if you think you're going one place. But I don't.
I don't in my entire life, I don't ever remember
being in a car with a woman and taking her
somewhere where she didn't know where we were going, right.
(18:48):
I don't remember how many times I've gotten I don't
think I've ever gotten into a car or an uber
and gone somewhere and had no idea where where I
was going, right, And so that's true, right, I mean,
but I'm saying that seems like a story that would
be a little bit odd, right, Like, So if that's true,
if they got into a car and she didn't have
any idea where they were going, they're like, Okay, hey,
(19:09):
the night's not over, We're gonna get in a car
and go somewhere else, and then she's like, she doesn't
say where, Like that just seems strange to me. I
don't know, Jim Sturgeon. I I like her. I've done
a couple of different shows with her at f S one,
So I'm not disparaging her story. I'm just saying that
would seem like a strange kind of like that to me,
that's next level, right, Like to me, that seems like
(19:30):
a strange kind of situation where you get into a
car having no idea where you're going, and then like, okay,
you have dinner and people are like, hey, we're gonna
go out and have another couple of drinks. You in
and everybody's like yeah, sure, let's go, and nobody says like, hey,
where are we going? And the next thing you know,
you pull up at a strip club. That's a little
bit different if that actually happened in that story. Okay,
that that feels strange, But maybe the answer is also
(19:53):
when you're interviewing somebody, then I haven't ever done that,
Like where you the interviewee feels like they have to
do whatever you suggest because they want to go to
get a job. That also would be a different context.
But I feel like you see what I'm saying here,
I feel like we're in an era where if you
make a suggestion, like even if you say, hey, we're
(20:15):
gonna go to a strip club, people are like, oh,
that's that's sexual harassment. You can't do that. And I
just I think that that would that that would actually
be And this is I'm I'm gonna put a phone
lines on this, and I'm actually gonna open up phone
lines on this eight seven seven three six nine. I
actually think the unfair thing would be if you didn't
offer the person that you were with the opportunity to
(20:37):
go with you as well, right, I mean to me, like,
and I'm using Vegas as an example, it may be
different if you're in Topeka on a random Wednesday night, Like, Okay,
that's not somewhere where you would typically kind of end up.
I feel like Vegas is a place where people do
things that are more risk ay than they would maybe
in their their home base. Then if you're in a
(20:58):
buffalo on a Tuesday night, or if you're in you know,
there are lots of things in Vegas which are normal
in Vegas that would not be normal elsewhere. I think
going to a strip club is normal behavior in Vegas.
Some of you out there may say, Oh, that's totally crazy,
it's not normal behavior. I think it's also normal behavior
in Vegas to sit with a coworker and gamble. That's
something that you probably wouldn't do elsewhere. I think it's
(21:20):
normal behavior in Vegas to maybe go to a show
where there's nudity involved that isn't even a you know,
quote unquote like strip club or anything like. You could
go see Zumanity and they come out topless, right, that's
probably something you wouldn't do at a normal company event.
So if you're doing a company event in Vegas, that
is a different kind of standard. And so anyway, I'm
(21:42):
using this an example because you go in and you
look at all the circumstances and the allegations against one
of the guys who's a SportsCenter anchor. I went and
read all the text interchange, and I'm thinking to myself,
my god, does every man who has any relationship at
all with a woman at his place of business now
have to say every text message he's ever sent so
(22:02):
that if he gets accused of inappropriate behavior, he can
provide that private conversation to his employer and say, oh, no, no,
I didn't do anything inappropriate. And also on the on
the other front, if you are out with a group
of people, uh, and I think they were in Charlotte
or something like that, are you not allowed to make
a decision to go to a strip club with co workers?
(22:24):
Is that considered sexual harassment? Now? She I mean, she's claiming,
she's claiming. It's arresting. But the thing that that stands
out about that one part of it says or she
says that she and Matthew Berry were both admonished for
the strip club about and whether or not you believe
that should have happened or not, she didn't get a
job and Matthew Berry did because they were both interviewing
at the same time. ESPN said they chose another woman
(22:46):
who had more experience, but send an email uh saying
that Sturgier could have improved her chances by showing more
professional behavior. And then Barry became senior fantasy analysts and
one of the most influential persons in fantasy sports. That
coming from the Boston Globe article, So that that's interesting.
I don't know that she's necessarily talking about how objectionable
being at the strip club was as opposed to the
(23:07):
fact that he didn't seem to get the same treatment
as she did after the fact, So that might be
a little bit of a nuance between those two Bury
that was a little bit worse. Yeah, But I mean again,
like I under like going after I just feel like
we have moved into an era where like we're so
(23:28):
diving into the details of every single interaction that I
read the text interchange between the sports center anchor and
this woman who's filed the lawsuit of inappropriate behavior, and
I'm like, I don't see anything bad here. Now, maybe
you can say there's something bad and that you should
never date anybody that you work with, all right, I'm
not willing to accept that standard, right because a ton
(23:51):
of people listening right now. End up married to the
people they work with. And also I'm not willing to
accept the standard that if you're a guy and you
go to a strip club with a co worker, that
you've somehow committed a huge issue of sexual harassment, like
the standard of sexual harassment, and what I'm getting at
here is expanding to the point where there's behavior that
(24:14):
I don't think is harassive at all that immediately gets
accepted as being in the wrong. And look, I haven't
been in any way lenient towards ESPN. I think it's
fair to say. But when I read the accusations against
both these guys published in a major newspaper, which will
undoubtedly embarrass them and also embarrass their families and everybody else.
(24:36):
I read this and I was like, this to me,
doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of sexual harassment.
I'm curious if people agree with me. Eight seven seven
six three six nine. By the way, men and women,
I don't know. I mean, again, the crazy thing and
the difficult thing about sexual harassment in general. And I
used to do seminars to try to teach in house
(24:57):
UH sexual harassment related issues, and I also did sex
a harassment investigations. So I know that it's a very
serious issue, but it's in the mind of the accuser.
So as a man, think about how rare you're very
good at explaining what your wife or girlfriend is going
to think about a situation. Think about the sexes and
(25:17):
how often their minds are in different places in general,
And to me, I just I I really wonder when
I read this Boston Globe story, I was like, man,
I'm sure that there is serious sexual harassment issues that
have gone on at ESPN. I'm not sure this Boston
Globe story is is probing them in that way. Now,
there are several stories in there that are awful um
(25:39):
about how women who were instant, for instance, were pregnant,
were treated differently, all those things. That's structural. That's a
major issue inside of ESPN in general. And I think
certainly pregnancy is a challenging issue for many people at
many different companies all over the country, and our way
that we deal with maternity leave and paternity leave and
everything else when you have children. I've certainly dealt with
(26:01):
that in my own life in terms of the way
that my wife had to you know, she didn't get
maternity leave when we had kids, um, and so she
had to use her her health, you know, her her
vacation days to be able to take off time when
we had our first two kids. And I thought that
was crazy, you know, I thought that it was crazy
that you couldn't just get a specific amount of time
of a maternity leave like uh, and everybody has different
(26:24):
policies and and that obviously is an issue for ESPN.
If I were running ESPN, given how wealthy that company is,
if somebody has a baby, I would try to be
as as uh as as as forthcoming and forth right
and and lenient as you could possibly be, while understanding
obviously that running a business is difficult if you have
(26:45):
tons of employees that also were out on maternity and
paternityly so all these things I read that story were
to me fascinating, But I think we've already moved into
an era where you end up with uh with you know,
kind of maybe we'll read some of those text messages
um as I was reading him this morning that ESPN released,
UM and I can read them to you and you
(27:06):
can be like, yeah, that sounds like a normal conversation
that a guy trying to date a girl might have
didn't sound inappropriate at all. Be sure to catch live
editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays at
six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking about a
big story in the Boston Globe alleging a hostile work
environment for women at ESPN. Now, I'm not dismissing every
(27:26):
aspect of this story. I think if you are pregnant
and you were treated as several of the women in
this story were, I think that's unacceptable. Okay, I'm not
saying that ESPN is perfect, but in particular, there are
two male employees named in this article, John Butchery Gross
whose name I Baby butchering Um, and also Matthew Berry,
(27:48):
and both of those guys are still employed at ESPN.
One of the co workers of the SportsCenter anchor, we'll
call him Bucci Uh, made allegations that he had behaved
inappropriately in a lawsuit that he has filed. ESPN investigated,
reviewed the evidence and said they found that he had
not behaved inappropriately. Late last night, they also took the
(28:08):
next step of releasing the text messages between the two
and I just read a few of them. I we
shared the link here on the show early this morning,
and we're using this as a jumping off point about
the larger cultural discussion going on about sexual harassment in
the workplace. My position in general is that we have
rapidly moved from an era when you read a lot
(28:30):
of the stuff about Harvey Weinstein or Frankly Matt Lauer
or a lot of the other men who have lost
their jobs. You read those and you say, oh, yeah,
those guys have to go. You can't do that at
the job. But I think we've moved rapidly, in the
space of two or three weeks into a story like
the one I read about the Boston Globe where Butcher
Gross is being accused of inappropriate behavior for dating a
(28:55):
co worker at the time at a ESPN and you
read the text messages and they aren't inappropriate. And then also, uh,
you have a situation where Matthew Berry is accused of
behaving inappropriately because he went to a strip club with
co workers. And again, if that's the standard, I'm like,
why is that sexual harassment? Now? Some of you are
(29:16):
Somebody just tweeted me and said and and Jen Sturger,
who used to be at Florida State Cowgirl, was involved
in this story. Uh, somebody just texted me Jen Sturgier
can't complain about sexual harassment when she posed for Playboy
and Maxim. Well that's just not true, all right. That
the part of the problem here is that you're dealing
with human emotions and the law, which is always challenging.
(29:37):
Let me just reiterate this, just because a woman posed
nude for Playboy doesn't mean she can't be sexually harassed.
And I mean, truth of Maxim, like you was in
Maxim in a bikini model and she got al Frankenhousted.
I mean, it doesn't matter what you did, you can
you can be harassed no matter what you do for
a living. Well, I mean you can make a choice
(30:00):
opposed nude and still be treated inappropriately at your job,
just like by the and then by the way, the
logic on this this flawed is you could say like, oh,
well she was asking for did you see what she
was wearing. Yeah, that's not a good line of defense.
That's the wrong angle to take here. So that's I'm
not saying that that because of Jen Sturger's background that
(30:22):
I think going to the strip club was a problem.
What I'm saying is I don't believe that that sexual
harassment myself. If you put me on a jury and
you said so these co workers they went out for
dinner and then they decided they wanted to have drinks
afterwards and they went to the strip club. Is that
sexual harassment? No, I I don't think so. I mean,
(30:42):
look now, if what she's saying that she got into
a car, she had no idea where she was going,
and when she showed up at the strip club and
she didn't want to go in, that it was sexual harassment.
I think that gets into like what was the actual vibe.
Was she like, legitimately not wanting to go in and
they grabbed her and they dragged her in, well, that
it's inappropriate, all right? Or was she like I'm not
sure if I'm gonna go in and a couple of
(31:04):
guys are like, hey, we're gonna have drinks. There's other
girls in here, you should come in, and she's like,
I don't know if I want to come in, and
they're like, come on, if you don't want to go,
that's fine, and then she felt pressured to go in
and she's like, that's sexual harassment. I think that's a
more challenging situation. Um. But my point in a larger
context here is we have to maintain our sanity in
(31:24):
an era when it's easy for a woman right now, frankly,
to accuse a man of sexual harassment, and for a company,
especially if it's a prominent employee and the ESPN knows
they're gonna get an article written about them, to just
kick him to the curb. But I think the evidence,
at least that's public right now that we can look
at these text messages, I don't think he did anything inappropriate.
(31:47):
Let's go out to l A. Jason Martin. You said
you think about this because you're a single guy. I
think about it because I'm a married guy. Like you know,
every text me, every email that I send at this
point in time, honestly, I think would I be okay
with this going book on a on a website, Because
I've attained a certain level of prominence, and if I
do something that people are like, oh my god, Clay
(32:08):
Travis behaved inappropriately, it could be a lead story on
dead Spin or some other site that doesn't like me.
It just could. And so every email that I send,
in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, would I
be okay with this email going public now, the standard
for me is probably a lot different than the standard
is for other people. By the way, too, because I
try to leave my live my life openly and just
be honest about everything that I do. So I think
(32:30):
most of the time, if you guys read my emails,
you'd be like, Yeah, that's exactly what I expect Clay
Travis to sound like. He sounds the exact same on
the radio show U, he sounds the exact same on
his periscope and Facebook show. He sounds the exact same
in his articles, like I try to live my life,
so there's not that much difference frankly between my public
and my private life. I don't think that if you
talk to me at a bar, I would sound much
(32:52):
different than I do on the radio show every morning.
And that's because I try to be as honest as
possible every day. But not everybody has the freedom to
be as honest as I do in their jobs. And
so when I see a situation like this, I actually
have to say props to ESPN for standing up for
their employee. And moreover, given the criticism that you know
they're gonna get and how big this story is gonna be.
(33:14):
I gotta give them props for releasing the text messages
because then everybody can just go read them. I just
tweeted out the link, uh to the big lead my
guy Jason McIntire site. They put up the text messages,
and I gotta tell you, I don't see anything wrong
with these text messages at all, um in the grand
scheme of things. Now, would I call a girl doll face?
Probably not, because it sounds like something my my grandfather
(33:35):
would have said. But you know, could I see myself
if I were dating a girl complimenting her on her
looks even though she was a co worker? Yeah? Could
I see me complimenting on her having long legs? Yeah?
I mean again, you can go read these text messages
for yourself. We've read a couple of them. Uh, what's
your position on this? L A, am I crazier? Are
you guys in agreement with me here that there doesn't
seem to be much wrong? Yeah? Hey, hey Clay and
(33:58):
uh Jason, I was sam here. I so let's let's
separate all these things. I want to just say the
Matthew Berry thing? Am I am I correct here? When
I'm saying that he was interviewing a woman for a
position and on the same day brought her to a
strip club. As that I don't I don't know the
full details. I don't know if he had the if like,
if he had the opportunity and ability to make a
(34:19):
decision in the hiring situation, I don't know. Like I'll
just and again, I don't know the specifics behind this,
and I would agree that that's a little bit of
of a different kind of caliber behavior. What usually happens,
I'll say this when you are doing like a search
for an interview process or like conducting an interview process
is and television they bring in like forty people and
(34:42):
do a ton of different pilots if they're talking about
doing a new show, that's oftentimes what happens. And so
I've been on I bet, I bet, I have filmed
fifty pilots with FS one for a variety of different
shows over the last six or seventy years, whatever of
the math is, however long FS one has existed. When
(35:02):
they were initially starting the network, they brought out a
ton of people and they would do all these different
panels where you would sit, they would record them. They
go back and watch analyze how you did. Then, I've
been on a ton of different pilots for Cowherd shows,
whitlock shows. You know, you've done a lot of those
different things. A lot of times. There are multiple people
there speaking as somebody who has been on those pilots
(35:24):
and also speaking as talent. In general, I don't think
very many guys have the ability to say this is
the person I want and get them or girls for
that matter, if the if the suits don't agree. In
other words, calling Cowherd is insanely successful, right. I don't
think necessarily that calling Cowherd can say I want this
person and I want you know, like, I don't think
(35:45):
calling Cowherd has hiring and firing decisions, even even calling Cowherd, right,
and so I think that if Colin doesn't necessarily have
hiring and firing decisions, he can give his opinion the
suits can consider it. I just find it hard to
believe that Matthew Berry at that time just a fantasy
guy and they're talking about doing a daily fantasy show.
(36:06):
I don't think he would have been high up enough
to have hiring and firing authority. So when when they
says it's an interview. I think it's different if you
are a superior, Like, I agree completely. If you're a
superior and you bring in a girl for an interview
and you guys go out to dinner and then you're like, and,
by the way, I think that's a little bit weird
to go out to dinner just the two of you. Anyway,
I think you should probably just interview at the at
(36:26):
the office. But let's say you interview at the office
and then you're like, Hey, afterwards, I'm gonna go get
a drink. Do you want to come out for a drink?
I think that puts the woman in an awkward position
because then she feels like she has to go to dinner.
She has to feel like she has to go get
a drink with you because you're in a position of
power over her, and she feels like, is this continue
continuing the interview? Do I have to be cool? Do
(36:48):
I have to agree to hang out with this guy?
Do I have to spend time with him in order
to get a job? Then that would be inappropriate. What
I am reading this is not Matthew Berry is a
suit sitting in an office making a hiring and firing
to site and I'm seeing this as they were basically
filming a pilot. Jen Sturgeer was one of the people
on the pilot. And again, if I'm wrong, I could
be could be misreading this, but this is the danger
(37:09):
of reading stories like these in the newspaper. And then
they decided as a group, let's go out and get
some drinks and dinner after we did this pilot. And
then from there they decided to go to a strip club.
I've done a bunch of pilots. Uh. We did an
OutKick pilot, and everybody who was on that pilot went
out for dinner and drinks afterwards. Now we didn't go
to a strip club, but we went out for dinner
and drinks afterwards to be like, hey, I thought we
(37:31):
did a really good job. Here, let's talk about how
we thought the pilot went. And that was guys and
girls too, and you know, like, I don't think there
there's anything inappropriate about that. And by the way, I
don't think I put people in awkward shape because even
when I was doing that pilot, I didn't control hiring
and firing decisions. I could be like, hey, I thought
this person was good, but my opinion would just be
(37:51):
waited like somebody else's opinion in a suit. Now, I
think the more powerful you are, like I said, Colin
is a great example. I think Colin could close to
be able to pickhever he wants. But I still think
the suits would look at it and say, we don't
necessarily like that. And I'll give you an example before,
Like I was pitched having my own morning show on
FS one, and I liked a couple of different guys
(38:13):
that I wanted to do the show with, and I said, man,
I think this is gonna be really good. I'd like
to do the show with I'll just say it. I mean,
I've talked about it. I'd like to do the show
with Eddie George. Eddie George and I did a pilot.
We did a show together, and the suits came back
and said, we don't think you and Eddie will be
very good. I disagreed with them, but I wasn't powerful
enough to be like, hey, I want Eddie. And then
(38:33):
I wasn't willing to let somebody else pick a co
host for me. And you can say that's crazy, but
I've done enough television and enough radio that if I'm
gonna be working with somebody every day. I want to
make sure that I have a good working relationship with somebody,
and so I've passed on opportunities because they've been like, Hey,
we want you to do this, but we're gonna pick
somebody else for you to work with. I'm not gonna
(38:55):
do that. And you can say that's crazy, like, oh,
just take television show, do whatever. No. I mean, like,
if I'm going to go to work every day and
do a television show or a radio show for that matter,
I want to know the people that I work with,
and so, uh, you know, I may not be high
enough on the flow chart to be able to do that.
But I answering your question, I was Sam, that's kind
of circling around and explaining, uh what I think the
(39:16):
context of that was as I read it. Sure, Yeah, listen,
you have to judge the tone, and that goes to
not only John boucher Grass situation with the text messages,
but also whether or not you have a female colleague
or subordinate, whatever it may be, and what whether that
if it's comfortable or if it seems appropriate to take
that person to a strip club. I mean, you really
(39:37):
have to have like a friendly working relationship to to
have that be okay with everybody. Um, and again there's
like power, there's a power dynamic here in play. So
strip club like there's nudity involved. Is that is that
safe for work? So to speak? Like there's all these
questions that kind of go through your mind. And maybe
I don't know if he went he if he made
the right decision in trying to take someone to a
strip club. I mean, for me, that's different than the
(39:59):
butcher Grass stuff. I mean, the Bitchgrass stuff seemed like
more uh like friendly banter, flirtatious banter. And we read
through a Justin and I read through it during the break.
It didn't seem like a whole lot of red flags
like the doll face and the long legs thing. Maybe,
but really I think these two things are are a
little bit different. I can see that. Um. But again,
(40:19):
I just am looking at this in the context of
these guys did a pilot. They went out to get
dinner and drinks and then they decided, Hey, you know what,
let's go to a strip club. And you know, maybe
Jen Starger didn't want to go, and I think you
know that that's always an interesting question is when can
you just divide the line between your work and your
private life. There are a lot of people out there
who are like, man, I don't want to go to
my holiday party, right, Like, but you feel like you're
(40:42):
obligated to have to go to your holiday party for Christmas.
You're like, man, I already work here. I already come
here and work fifty hours. I guarantee. There's a ton
of people out there listening to me right now who
were driving into work on a Friday and they've got
a holiday party that they're going to after work today,
and they're like, the last thing I want to have
to do when I finished work after a long week
is go hang out with the people that I work with,
(41:03):
because I can't stand a lot of these people, right,
I mean, that's normal. A lot of people have jobs
they don't like the people they work with. And but
you also, I guarantee you, I guarantee you. There are
thousands of people driving to work right now across the
country listening to this show in this exact situation. They're like,
I've got to go to a holiday party. How long
do I have to stay? You know, maybe you're bringing
your spouse with you, and you're like, Hey, we gotta
(41:24):
make an appearance at this company holiday party. I only
want to stay for forty five minutes. We gotta go
talk to the boss, we gotta go have a drink,
walk around, don't be a grinch, uh, say hi to everybody,
and then we're out. And that's probably especially true in
this modern era we're in right now, where there's a
lot of people walking into holiday parties, Like, the last
thing I want to do is have some drinks, and
(41:44):
the next thing you know, I'm getting accused of sexual
harassment because I said something inappropriate to a co worker.
I'd rather have a beer, maybe not even any alcohol
at all, and then just get out of here and
go on with my private life. And I think that's
a question that lots of people have in general. Um
that that totally uh, it makes sense in a larger context.
I'm gonna take your calls. We're also gonna play you
this Warren Sap audio so we can have a little
(42:06):
bit of fun with this. Warren Sapp was accused in
a lawsuit filed in the NFL Network case, which by
the way, is infinitely more significant than this story from
The Boston Globe, alleging inappropriate behavior at the NFL Network.
Warren sap, and this is an unbelievable fact to me.
Accused of giving a female coworker a sex toy as
(42:26):
a Christmas present for three straight years, that by itself
is just an amazing play. Warren SAPs like, I'm gonna
give you a sex toy once doesn't stick with it,
comes back with another sex toy in year three, and
then a third sex toy, uh in in year three.
That's a pretty unbelievable pull. I almost think it's easier
(42:47):
to defend three sex toys where you're just giving sex
toys all the time to people than it is one
sex toy. But he went on the radio and he
tried to defend himself
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