October 2, 2020 • 36 mins
Clay Travis drafts his best college and NFL games of the weekend and brags about his NFL picks the past 2 weeks. Clay shares a clip of his Wins & Losses interview, with the one and only Megyn Kelly. Plus, Clay focuses in on a couple of NFL games that are under the radar but may be gems.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Out Kicked the Coverage with Clay Travis Live every weekday
morning from six to nine a m. E Stern three
to six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
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(00:22):
to Fox Sports Radio? Quote. I think it's fair to
say that Broncos Jets would be nobody's idea of a
first round draft pick for the NFL or for college
football coming up this weekend. But I watch college football
all day Saturday, with the exception of the time that
I'm going to be spending with my ten year old
(00:44):
and his flag football team. Uh and also maybe the
time that I'm gonna be spending at my kids soccer match. So,
like a lot of you, I have a bunch of
kid obligations. My kids are fortunately back able to play
sports where we live, and so fall sports we got
him signed up for because a lot of them miss
spring sports and they were desperate to be able to play.
And so other than that time that I'm gonna spend
(01:04):
watching them actually play sports, we are gonna be watching
in the Travis Household a lot of college football and
a lot of NFL. And so what we usually do
on Fridays in this program is we give you, basically
a viewer guide. What games are you know? Basically, I
and Dub come in. We bring in Dub as a
(01:25):
as a ringer in the draft game here to help
decide which games are most worthy of your attention, and
in particular, we'll start off Dub. I'm gonna bring you
in as a gesture of goodwill. I'm gonna let you
draft first in college football because you are an Auburn
graduate and I think it's clear that the best game
(01:45):
going on in college football this weekend is a hundred
percent Auburn on the road against Georgia. But I'm curious
what you think. I'm gonna let you make your first
round pick here and then break down this game from
your perspective. What do you expect to see? Do you
like Auburn's chances frankly in a rivalry that has been
totally dominated by Georgia, Yeah, it's gonna be I think
(02:07):
you're I think you're right. I think it's obviously and
clearly the best game on the board this Saturday, even
though we have A and M in Alabama playing. I
agree with Lance Taylor. I don't think that game is
going to be particularly close, but I think this one
has the potential to be close. But me being the
cynical Auburn fan that I am, and the fact that
we have not beaten Georgia in Athens since before I
(02:28):
had armpit hair, I'm not sure exactly. Yeah years since
Auburn went into Athens in one Yeah, which is pretty
unbelievable because Auburn's had some pretty decent teams at that time.
But I digress this game. I was not necessarily impressed
with Auburn last weekend. They got out gained, they they
(02:50):
did win the turnover against Kentucky. Against Kentucky, they got big,
big break on the touchdown. Yeah, that was blown. And
first of all, I love Auburn, okay, and I have
a lot of friends here in Nashville that I went
to school with. And it's such the it's such the
homer thing to do, because if you remember, the very
next play was the interception on the goal line Auburn
returned at a hundred yards. They reviewed it to see
(03:10):
if he stepped out of bounds, and they found a
targeting call. Now, the only complaints I heard from my
friends was, well, that was a bogus call on the targeting.
On the review, that was that we got screwed, And
I'm like, are you kidding me? They got screwed. They
should have The guy was halfway in the end zone,
half his body. It should have been six. They should
have been up by eight at halftime. Totally changed the game.
So I think Auburn, even though they covered with ease
(03:31):
on the scoreboard, I thought that was pretty much a
coin flip game if you take a deeper look at it.
So I think this line at seven is probably about right.
I think Georgia probably wins, even though their their quarterback
situation isn't ideal. I thought, uh, their third string quarterback
essentially that came in in the second half actually did
a really nice job. Granted it was Arkansas, but he
(03:53):
was able to move the ball. I'm probably expecting him
to play this week. I'm not sure how ready J T.
Daniels actually, I think it's a tough spot to just
throw him into the fire against a good Auburn team
and a pretty damn good Auburn defense. So I think
Georgia probably squeaks it out close at home, but obviously
I will be wearing my orangin blue and rooting for
(04:13):
my Auburn Tigers. So Stetson Bennett. Nobody can remember his name,
including me as the quarterback who came in for Georgia,
and I think you're right. I think he'll get to start. Uh.
I like Auburn. We gave this pick out yesterday. I
like Auburn plus seven. That line is kind of ticked
up to seven. I'm not sure what's going to happen.
And I've lost some money in these Auburn Georgia games
over the years because I've tended to be on Auburn
(04:34):
a lot. But I think that Auburn will be will
be competitive there. So that's your first round pick in
college football. My first round pick in college football. I
think it's Texas A and M in Alabama because I
really don't believe there's another great game going on in
college football. This is the SEC CBS game of the
week to me. Again, an hour one we talked about this.
(04:56):
It's been eight years since Johnny Manziel went on the
road in tuscal Looosa and became the legend and the
line was almost the exact same for that game, Alabama
around a seventeen point favorite. Johnny Manzel's shocked everybody there.
Alabama just wasn't losing at home under Nick Saban. They
still don't do it very often. One himself the Heisman
Trophy basically with that performance and became a SEC football legend. Obviously,
(05:20):
his NFL career did not go as he would have hoped,
or many other people would have helped hoped, certainly Brown's
fans among them. But in general here I think that
that this is a big game for Jimbo Fisher because
I expect for Alabama to win. But at what point,
given the fact that Jimbo is making seven and a
half million dollars a year, does A and M start
(05:41):
to make those major our coach is making seven and
a half million dollars a year strides and I'm not
sure it's gonna happen against Alabama, but I'm taking A
and M to cover. I think it is the second
best game after Auburn at Georgia on the calendar in
the SEC. Alright, I'm gonna stick with me because I
gave you the first pick for college football and in
(06:01):
the NFL, given the fact that we know Steelers Titans
isn't happening. To me, it's an easy call. I am
really really fascinated to see what happens with the Patriots
going on the road against the Kansas City Chiefs. Patriots
around a touchdown underdog in this game, the Chiefs coming
off of a Who's your Daddy performance against the Baltimore
(06:21):
Ravens Patrick Mahomes five touchdowns. Cam Newton has been good,
but he wasn't that great statistically in Week three. Uh,
he was phenomenal in Week two. Will this Patriot offense
be able to keep up with the Kansas City Chiefs?
Because Andy Reid has had a lot of success over
(06:42):
the years against Bill Belichick defenses, and it's almost impossible
right now to stop Patrick Mahomes. In fact, I think
the only way you can stop Patrick Mahomes is if
your front four is good enough to get substantial pressure
on him and you can drop seven people into zone
and try to take away their ability make really big plays.
That seems to be the best recipe to be able
(07:03):
to beat him. That's what the forty Niners did for
much of the Super Bowl. That's what the Chargers did
in Week two, uh, and that's what I think the
Patriots will try to do. I just don't think they
have the horses to get home against him, and that's
why I think ultimately the Chiefs are gonna pull away
win this game by double digits. And I still think
it's the best game Belichick against Reed, my Homes against Cam.
(07:25):
I think it's by far the best game in the
NFL schedule if I only had to pick one. What
about you, doub Yeah, I agree with you, And I
think one thing the Patriots will try to do because
I think the best defense against Kansas City is their
offense just not being on the field. So I'm gonna
look for New England to really get, you know, three
or four or five yards at a time on the
ground and just try to win time of possession. I
think that's their only shot. Uh. As far as the
(07:46):
other games, I'm looking at Brown's at Dallas, I agree.
I think that's a fascinating game because these are two
teams that are perpetual basically disappointments. We all know about
how bad Cleveland has been over the past basically twenty years.
In Dallas, they've had all the hype all the time
I picked him as my NFC champion to come out
this year. That that does not look like a good
prediction to this point, and both uh both teams have
(08:09):
some offensive firepower, the Cowboys through the air, the Browns
on the ground, I expect. I don't know if this
is on your six pack of picks, but the overs
have been cashing like nobody's business that's so far in
the NFL, and this over, although it's high fifty five
and a half, I don't really see any scenario where
both these teams aren't in the thirty plus point range.
So I think this is gonna be a shootout type game.
(08:32):
Dallas minus four to half at home. I think Cowboys
probably win, But I'm just fascinated by this matchup in general.
Two and one Cleveland going up against one and two
Dallas an absolute Well is it a must win for
Dallas in their division? I guess you can't. Well, that's
probably true, but if they fall the one in three
with Mike McCarthy, I do think you're You're probably right.
(08:54):
They have the benefit of being in the worst division
in football, So I really think seven and nine might
win the NFC East. I I don't. I mean, I
don't think that's an exaggeration at all. I think a
Nate would certainly do it, But you might be able
to win the NFC East with a losing record. So
for most teams in the NFL, falling to one in
three and hoping to win your division would be virtually
impossible to come back from. For the Cowboys, I think
(09:16):
they potentially could be able to come back from it.
But I think that's a fantastic suggestion for a game
that everybody needs to be watching. Be sure to catch
live editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays
at six am Eastern three am Pacific. I know many
of you have been listening to our Wins and Losses
podcast because I see the numbers and it keeps growing substantially.
There are now thirty four long form interviews there to
(09:39):
be able to listen to the most recent and by
the way, fascinating characters. Whether it's Kirk Herb Street, Paul
Fine Baumb, Mike Leach, these are long form conversations with
hardly any commercials. Their podcast exclusive. I'd encourage all of
you to check them out if you're going on trips
you've got long drives, you just want an interesting conversation
to listen to. The most recent is Megan Kelly, formerly
(10:00):
a Fox News journalist Warrior. We had an incredibly interesting
conversation that came out on Monday. But I want to
play a section of that interview for you now because
the feedback has been so phenomenal on it, and if
you like it, you can go download and listen to
the whole thing. Just type in Clay Travis or out
kick on Stitcher, iTunes wherever you are and you'll see
(10:22):
the Wins and Losses podcast podcast. Hop up. But here
we are Megan Kelly and me. Here's a part of
our conversation. When do you actually confess to the partners
and the people that you worked for and with at
Jones Day that you were exploring in a serious way journalism, Like,
how far into the process did you get before you
(10:43):
were like, Hey, this is you know, not guitar lessons
that I'm just doing on the side. This is something
that that maybe I have an interest in. So I
kind of got discouraged there. I was with my resume tape,
thinking okay, great, but I don't have a single connection,
you know, in news. I don't have anything on my
resume to suggest I could do news. You know, I
(11:06):
just had that feeling that I'm sure a lot of
people get, which is just apathy and self doubt, and
you know, the desire to stay in my couch. And
by the way, my therapist always says, the desire to
sand one's couch couch should always be fought like that.
Retreat is bad. It's almost always bad. And one day
(11:28):
I was watching Lifetime television, Lifetime Television play and they
ran this movie, this you know, Lifetime movie called the
Jessica Savage Story. And she was this amazing journalist back
in the late seventies eighties who was making it in
the man's industry, one of the only women. She was
like Jessica and Connie Chung and a young Barbara Walters.
And that was it. And it was a great story.
(11:49):
It ended in ruination, sadly, but hers as most Lifetime
stories do. At least you didn't get murdered by her husband, right.
But I was inspired to try, so I started cold
calling news directors and every single one was like, by
you know, no one wanted to talk to me. They
didn't they didn't want to help me. The doyn't want
to give me a chance. And finally I got smart
(12:11):
and I decided to walk my tape into the news
station in DC um W j l A, and they
had a cable channel that was like their sister, and
I thought, maybe they'll pop me on that cable channel
that's like not a lot of people are watching. I
got a shot there and I went in. I met
this guy, Bill Lord, who was the news director for
both and God bless that guy. He put me on
(12:33):
the air. So he started just just one day a week,
one day a week, and at that point I had
to disclose to Jones day that I was doing this
because day they might see me and be he could
create an ethical conflict depending on what I was reporting
on UM so he you know, I sort of said
it's just gonna be fun. I just want to try
it out, and they were a little leary, but said okay,
(12:55):
do it. And then I was doing pretty well and
Bill Lord said, well how about you do two days?
So I did Saturdays and Sundays and I did the
law job the other days. And then they came to
me and said, how about you do another day a
week and that would have required me to go part
time at Jones Day. And so I went and spoke
with a head of General Litigation, a guy named Tim Cullen,
who was so great, And he said, Okay, I'm sad
(13:18):
because this feels like a trial separation and those usually
lead to divorce. And I said, Tim, you know it
very well might, but I gotta try. So he he
let me stay at Jones Day, you know, part time. Um,
and then eventually I decided it was time to make
a full time leap. All right, So your how old?
(13:39):
The first time you go on air with I think
it was w j l A. You said, so, that
would have been two thousand three, so I was thirty two. Okay,
so you've never really done television before you're thirty two
years old. You get to go on this, uh, this
relatively small station in Washington, d C. What did you
do the first time that you were on television? The
(13:59):
very first time I ever saw myself on television. It
was taped, so I was clear like it was a
taped piece. And what would you remember the time? You
remember the topic of the tape piece? Do you remember
what you recorded? It was? Well, the very first thing
I ever did was on a hurricane and it was
Hurricane Isabelle that had gone through Virginia, and I thought
for sure. I always thought I was gonna be doing
(14:20):
mostly legal stuff that that had been my pitch. And
I remember calling Bill Lord because my first day was
a Friday, and I was like, probably don't need me,
right because the storms come in and you know, you're
not gonna need a lawyer, legal expert type. And he goes,
if you don't already have rain boots and rain pants
and rains like that, you better get up and get
in here, like oh no. And so it was a
(14:43):
crazy night and I did a report on not that
night but the next day on the hurricane and it
was fine. But the first time I had to do
a live shot where it's like go, you know, like
i'd practiced on the streets of Chicago, was at the
It was the dullest airport and there was something going
on the airport and security and they had a scare.
You know, it's just back when we were still pretty
(15:04):
close to nine eleven and there was a scare every
other day, um, and and it was during the headlights,
you know, and they're like you can hear the anchor
toss to you and really, I'm like, I don't know
who the hell I am? Who the hell am? I
just say your name, say something, say something resembling anything.
And I got through it, and I thought I had
been totally incomprehensible. When I looked back at it later,
(15:27):
it was okay, it wasn't hideous, but it was terrifying.
I'm Clay Travis is Wins and Losses. We're talking with
Megan Kelly. So do you go back, like an athlete
and study your early tapes in television to figure out
what you're doing well? Or did you find that you
kind of got a sense for how you were doing.
(15:48):
What about the discipline of television came to you and
how did you get better? I definitely went back and
looked at the tapes, and I think that's a must do,
you know, because it is a visual medium and you
have to see or whatever the mechanism is, listen to
yourself and see what works and what doesn't work. You know,
you may think you sound fine. When you go back
(16:10):
and you watch yourself, you see a totally different product.
So I did that for years when I first started,
you know, at w j L, A and then and
then at Fox News. But the truth is that is
a skill you only develop by doing it over and
over and over. You know. It's like typing, and you
you cannot type seventy words a minute before you've done
(16:32):
and so on. So I would just say yes to everything,
which I think every young person in a job should do.
I mean I I always tell the young people who
are asking me for advice, you know, if they want
you to empty the trash, empty the trash, like say
yes to every weekend ship, to working on Christmas. You know,
have some gumption, go after it, you know, don't don't
(16:52):
be a I'm I'm above this kind of person. And
that leads to opportunity, you know, because the sad truth
is it will set you apart from your competition, um
so and and and it just happened to be. And
in my profession, as it is in most that that
makes you better. You know, you get your ten thousand
hours in and before you know it, you're doing it
(17:12):
almost effortlessly. What I have found is, and this is
probably the legal background as well, what I get to
do now is make arguments. But instead of having to
take as you said earlier, sometimes you're on the wrong
side of an argument, You're like, boy, I'd rather have
the facts of that other side. Now, you know with
the position that I'm in, and I think you get
to do this now as well. You get to look
(17:32):
at all the facts, array them as you see fit,
and then make your case. And as you were talking
about your legal career, it struck me watch having watched
your television show. Basically, what you're doing is arguing in
front of a jury every single night about cases and
stories that matter the most to you in a compelling fashion. Right,
It's basically like an oral argument that you get to
(17:54):
make every single night when you're doing a live television show.
Absolutely and one of the biggest challenges but also rewards
if you do it right. Of of doing that show
in that way, was taking really condensed, really difficult subjects
and condensing them in a way that my imaginary viewer
(18:16):
that the one I picture in my head, Yes, she's working.
Who do you picture? By the way, who do you picture?
Because I I do that for my radio show, my
television show to an average person who's watching, Who in
your mind is an average Megan Kelly viewer? I have
a woman in my head named Madge who lives in Iowa.
She works all day. She's got a couple of kids,
and she and her husband come home from working at
(18:37):
night and they turn on the TV. Maybe they have
a glass of wine, and they want to consume their
news in a way that is easy to understand, somewhat entertaining, trustworthy,
and that they don't have to work too hard to get.
So it's my job to take something hugely complex, like
a Supreme Court ruling on redistricting and ride and make
(19:00):
Madge not have to work for it at all. It
Madg has to hit the rewind button on the remote control.
I have failed it should it's I used to call it.
It's like cool water going over a hot brain. That's
how I want my news delivery to feel to the consumer.
And and if you have to try too hard on
the air, you haven't tried hard enough prior to getting
(19:22):
to air. But I will say, Clay, one of the
things I like about you and and one of the
things I think maybe the solution to our entirely disgustingly
broken medium is more lawyers delivering the news in whatever
way works for them. Because lawyers, I think, in their
soul they're programmed to understand at least both sides and
(19:46):
to try in some way to recognize the other argument.
I do. And I don't know if it's just that
we're soulless hacks or you know, these trained elite arguers.
The latter sounds better, but whatever it is, lawyers, I
know Dan Abrams is another. They they're really good at
being fair. I don't think there's any doubt at all.
(20:09):
I mean, what I always say on my show is
I care about three things, the facts, the facts, the facts.
And one of the things that troubles me the most
about our country today is you can disagree with my
opinions or your opinions or anybody's opinion out there in
the world of media or your friends and family posting
on social media all day, but if you start with
incorrect facts, then you get to a place with an
(20:30):
incorrect opinion. And so uh, there's a lot of people
who don't care about the factual basis whether you're a Democrat, Republican, independent,
and it seems like we have lost that, particularly in
a social media age. And I do think lawyers are
better attuned to being able to consider both sides of
an issue. And at least understand the importance of facts,
(20:51):
because what you're talking about is basically the skills of
a great trial lawyer. And a great trial lawyer can
take facts which are honest and accurate and put the
best spend possible on them to advocate for the cause
they believe in. But they know that the facts have
to be right or the jury is not going to
trust him right face to face. It seems to me
we've lost the ability to recognize the foundational basis of fact.
(21:15):
It's one of the things that is most disturbing me
and most inspiring me to get back out there, because
both sides do it right. You know, President Trump, I
always say he doesn't. He doesn't have an adult relationship
with the truth. You know. I think all of his
years in real estate, UM sort of led him to
tolerate a certain level of you know, puffery we would
(21:38):
have called it in the law um. And so he is,
I think, by nature, and optimist who tries to oversell
positive outcomes. But he also if he gets himself in trouble,
he's not just gonna level with you about what he
did and why it wasn't a big deal. He's going
to try to tell you the facts are other than
what they are. That's a character trait that he has,
for better or for worse. But on the left, you
(22:00):
see like a post factual world when it comes to
discussions on tough subjects, you know, like the transgender issue
and the gender issue in general. You know that there's
there's no more biological sex and that you know, having
having certain genitalia is totally irrelevant to whether you're a
woman or a man. I don't believe that's true. Scientifically,
(22:24):
we can talk about what your life is like and
how you want to be accepted, and I'm totally pro
all of that, but there is a basis in science,
and I don't like this, the silencing of the scientific
community or even in the you know, all the Black
Lives Matter protests that we saw this summer. You know,
you can want to be an advocate against racism without
(22:46):
making up lies about the police. Uh. And I'm not
talking about George Floyd, but I'm talking about the lies
that were put out there about the number of cases
of police brutality, but of police killings of black men,
there are real data on that, and they've been they've
been either suppressed, their silenced. In fact, I've I've got
(23:09):
it right here. I mean that that I keep because
it's been such a big topic in the world of sports. Um,
you know, a police officer is seventeen times seventeen and
a half times as likely to be killed by a
black potential suspect as a police officer is to kill
an unarmed black man in this country. Right, that's a fact.
(23:30):
I'm reading directly from the Wall Street Journal. The data
is clear and transparent and straightforward. That is factual basis. Now,
we can talk once we have those facts in place
about ways to make the country better based on our
relationship between police and those that they consider suspects of crimes,
whatever race. They might be right to try to dial
down the tension, but it's as if that fact makes
(23:54):
people uncomfortable, and so you can't even have an honest
conversation about how to fix things if you can't begin
with a common basis effect. That's right, because they'll call
you a racist, and no one wants to be called
a racist. And and it's it's sad because book, I'm
sort of a free agent now, right, So it's like
I don't really care what they call me, and They've
(24:15):
already called me all the me memes that I'm doing
just fine, but I do worry about civilians right, for
lack of a better term, because they don't want to
put themselves out there. I've got good friends who are
you know, they're successful doctors and lawyers, and they can't
even like a tweet without having to worry. And that's
not okay. You know that the data on police shootings
(24:39):
or killings of black suspects are knowable. They are knowable.
It's not a perfect science, but they have been reported
for years. The Washington Post has been keeping running tally
of it all and for some reason, and you know,
people can draw their own conclusions. These activists want us
only to look at the percentage of black people in
(25:01):
the population, which tends to be around and then look
at the number of black people who are killed by
police in a year, and that's just not the relevant data.
They don't want you to factor in at all the
level of black criminality, and that the Wall Street Journal
has been doing a great job and reporting the facts
on this, but over the violent crimes and the major
(25:24):
cities of this country are committed by black men. Now,
the cops are not they're they're not arresting women, if
that doesn't make them sexist against men. They're going after
the people who are committing the crime, and so necessarily
the interactions between those guys and polices they're going to
go up, and they're fraught because if you resist arrest,
(25:47):
and the data show that that's what's happened in virtually
all these cases where a death results, your odds of
getting injured or killed by the police officers go up exponentially.
That's an argument that is all factual based, Right. I
think it's an important one that needs to be discussed
in the country. You couldn't say that on CNN today.
You couldn't say that today on MSNBC, Right, I really
(26:09):
don't think you could. Why do you think and you
worked and had your own show, and you did had
a tremendous success at Fox News. Why do you think
our society, media culture has created this world where there
are facts that aren't allowed to be spoken on television
on certain networks, and by the way, you can make
(26:31):
it across the board, right there facts probably that make
Fox News viewers uncomfortable that don't get shared very often.
We don't have a Walter cronkite of the world who's
sitting down and kind of the arbiter that everybody trust
to be a great official, so to speak, of the
world at large. How do we put the genie back
in the bottle? Can we Are things going to even
get worse from here? Boy? I mean, I think with
(26:55):
what's happening with this sort of woke culture. Um, you
know the social justice warriors, it's gonna be tough there
there that's a small group of Americans. They do not
represent the majority in trying to cancel everybody and shut
everybody up. But they're really loud, and the media is
they're in complete fealty to that small group. Um. And
(27:16):
so it's dangerous. And I'll tell you most there are.
There are so many intellectuals black and white, but a
lot of black intellectuals who are sort of pushing a
more heterodox view, you know, from Glenn Lowry to Coleman
Hughes obviously, um, Shelby Steele, Thomas houl But so you
can read black intellectuals who have done all the research
(27:36):
on this um and see what their worldview is. It
would it would back up everything I just said, right,
go look at read Jason Riley in the Wall Street Journal.
If you want to know the facts, um, but if
a white person says it, they're gonna call you a racist.
So you just, you know, to really know what's going on,
you have to actually be prepared to take some you know,
some some punches in the face. But I think what's
(27:57):
happened with the media is they're left They're not just liberal,
they're leftist, and they love to virtue signal. You know,
early on in my career, I had sent down to
cover the Duke what we now know is the fake
rape case with Duke lacrosse case. Yes, yep, and uh
I went down. When I first heard about that case,
(28:17):
I was new to Fox. It was like two thousand five,
and I at the time it's thirty four, so I
was whatever, not that far out of college. And I
was like, these guys they probably did it, you know,
like a section the cross players, and you know, you
had you had preconceived stereotypes as a you know, girl
who had gone to Syracuse. You're like, oh, I can
(28:38):
see these stupid lacrosse guys doing something like this, by
the way, everybody does. And then one of the great
things about being a lawyer, is you end up representing
people that you're like, man, this guy seems like a
total jerk, and then you start to look at the
facts and you're like, man, maybe this is not very
similar at all to what was initially reported. So that's fast.
So you go down to Duke and when do you
(29:00):
start to have doubts about that case as a lawyer
and you start to look at it because you're in
a unique position there. Well, I'll tell you the first
thing I happened before I left for North Carolina was
britt Hume, my boss and the DC Bureau said, um,
keep an open mind. And it was just the small
piece of advice, but it was the best advice, right
because it's just a good reminder that it really isn't
(29:22):
about what I think, It's about where the facts lead.
And I'm going down there in a fact finding mission.
So that's what I did. And I went down and
Fox gave me the you know, latitude to develop sources. Normally,
they just have each other to a camera, we have
to do live shot every half hour on a big
story like that, but they sent a different report to
to do that so I could actually develop tax and
(29:44):
it was very clear if you just had an open mind,
the facts did not support this woman's allegations. Her story
started to fall apart very early, and I reported those
inconsistencies in her story and so on. And at the time,
this is very early in my career, people were suggesting
it was racist of me and each exist of me
(30:06):
to be quote siding with these three white privileged guys
instead of this, uh, single mother, black um person who
lived on sort of the Durham side as opposed to
the Duke's side. You know, it's like that there's two
areas of Durham ones, one's less affluent than the other.
And uh, I just had to forge through that. You
(30:29):
just had to say, Okay, they're gonna call me names,
but I have to report the news. That's what I'm
made me paid to do. And you know who the
other person was who was getting the facts right, who
was on cable news at that time, Dan Abrams, who
I mentioned earlier, a lawyer who came to MSNBC at
the time from Court TV. And his dad is Floyd Abrams,
(30:49):
the famed First Amendment attorney who argued New York Times
to be solid it. So I just think, you know,
being open minds of the facts helped me land in
the right place and on these cop shooting um that
you just have to be open minded. You have to
be open minded and go where the evidence goes. That's phenomenal. Again,
(31:09):
if you want the full conversation, an hour and twenty
conversation between the two of us, very very interesting. I
promise that you will enjoy it. So many different angles
to hit there. Encourage you to go search it at
seek it out on wins and losses with Clay Travis.
When we come back, we'll dive back into the NFL,
continue to discuss the upcoming weekend and more. Fox Sports
(31:32):
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f
s R to listen live. I am super excited, as
I know many of you are, for college football and
the NFL this weekend and to be back officially underway.
Here we are in the Geico out King Studios and
(31:55):
one game that I don't think has gotten enough attention,
certainly on this program or probably anywhere else in the media.
You heard Dubb and I drafting the games that we're
most excited to watch. I'm kind of excited to see
what's gonna happen with the Colts against the Bears, because
this may be a sneaky, outstanding game. And let me
explain why. I believe that the Bears obviously are bringing
(32:17):
in Nick Foles, and we know Nick Foles is great
as a backup in short relief, but he hasn't ever
really been able to go the distance. He's like a
closer in Major League Baseball. We got all these Major
League Baseball games going on, and you can bring him
in for an inning or two and he's gonna mow
people down, but he's not the guy that necessarily can
take you all the way from the beginning. So that
(32:38):
they passed the baton really early in the season to
Nick Foles and took Mitch Drabinsky out of the mix.
So what I find to be particularly intriguing about this
game is a lot of us, myself included, stop paying
attention to the Colts the minute that they lost that
opening week to the Jacksonville Jaguars, and since that time,
the Colts have been on a tear. They be down
(33:00):
the Vikings. The Jets are no good, but the Colts
took care of them with ease. And I think what
is interesting is nobody can get to him. Nobody can
get to him at all. Stat that blew me away.
Philip Rivers has been pressured seventeen times so far this year.
He averaged averaged being pressured fourteen times a game last
(33:23):
season in l A. So with the Chargers, Philip Rivers
could never stay upright. He had an incredible amount of
of hits that he was taking. He's not getting hit
at all so far this year by anybody. So can
the Bears get to him? Can Khalil Mack and company
get to Philip Rivers and knock him off his spots
(33:45):
and make him unable to really have a great deal
of success in the passing game? And or can the
Colts step up and knock the Bears from the ranks
of the unbeaten and take advantage of knowing that Nick
Foles is theoretically going to be the guy throughout the
course of that game. To me, this is one of
the top of the line games to be paying attention
(34:08):
to in the NFL that's going to get almost no
attention whatsoever from the larger universe. The other game that
I think is not gonna get a lot of attention,
and it's not a matchup of good teams so far.
But with guys we got owen three Vikings going on
the road against the oh and three Texans. What's gonna
happen here? For Mike Zimmer and Bill O'Brien. These were
(34:30):
both teams that were in the playoffs last year, and
the Texans at least can say they've played a really
challenging schedule, and so can in many ways the Vikings.
They both have played a lot of good teams. I'm
trying to do live math, and you always know how
that's dangerous for me on the radio, But I believe
the Texans opponents are right now a combined nine and
(34:51):
oh dub You can verify that that's true. And I
believe that the Vikings opponents right now are a combined
eight and one. I think the lead team the Vikings
played that has lost a game at all is the Colts,
and I believe so if you do the math there
and again live radio, live on the air math, I
believe the Vikings and the Texans have to have combined
to play teams that have gone seventeen and one so
(35:14):
far this season, all right, so sorry the Ravens. I
was given the Ravens credit. Both of them are eighting one,
so Glad Doub's corrected me. There sixteen and two instead
of seventeen and one. The point is they have played
a lot of really good football teams. So the Vikings
and the Texans both have lost every game so far
there o n six combined, but they have played teams
(35:34):
that have gone sixteen and o overall sixteen and two overall. Sorry,
a lot of live math here. The point is the
Vikings and the Texans have played good teams and they've
lost to them. But what's gonna happen when they go
head to head here? Because if you look ahead for
their schedules, there's not a lot of easiness on the
schedules going forward. Necessarily, the Vikings still have to go
(35:56):
to the Seahawks. Maybe they get the Falcons, but the Falcons,
who knows what the world's gonna happen there? And then
you come back against the Packers. The Vikings are staring
and oh and six or a one in one in
five start into the into the season. And I've said
this about the Texans from the get go. They're in
legitimate danger of starting one in six or two in five,
(36:18):
or maybe even worse. The Texans go the Jags, not
an easy game necessarily like you thought. And then they
go to the Titans. They play the Packers. I mean,
this is a mess for them. So this battle of
oh and three teams, somebody's close to falling apart, and
the team that wins is going to have a bit
of a lifeline. The team that loses is done for.
It's effectively elimination game in the NFL. I want to
(36:41):
watch that one as well. Fox Sports Radio has the
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our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
listen live.
Out Kicked the Coverage with Clay Travis Live every weekday
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to six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
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i Heart Radio app by searching FS are you're listening
(00:22):
to Fox Sports Radio? Quote. I think it's fair to
say that Broncos Jets would be nobody's idea of a
first round draft pick for the NFL or for college
football coming up this weekend. But I watch college football
all day Saturday, with the exception of the time that
I'm going to be spending with my ten year old
(00:44):
and his flag football team. Uh and also maybe the
time that I'm gonna be spending at my kids soccer match. So,
like a lot of you, I have a bunch of
kid obligations. My kids are fortunately back able to play
sports where we live, and so fall sports we got
him signed up for because a lot of them miss
spring sports and they were desperate to be able to play.
And so other than that time that I'm gonna spend
(01:04):
watching them actually play sports, we are gonna be watching
in the Travis Household a lot of college football and
a lot of NFL. And so what we usually do
on Fridays in this program is we give you, basically
a viewer guide. What games are you know? Basically, I
and Dub come in. We bring in Dub as a
(01:25):
as a ringer in the draft game here to help
decide which games are most worthy of your attention, and
in particular, we'll start off Dub. I'm gonna bring you
in as a gesture of goodwill. I'm gonna let you
draft first in college football because you are an Auburn
graduate and I think it's clear that the best game
(01:45):
going on in college football this weekend is a hundred
percent Auburn on the road against Georgia. But I'm curious
what you think. I'm gonna let you make your first
round pick here and then break down this game from
your perspective. What do you expect to see? Do you
like Auburn's chances frankly in a rivalry that has been
totally dominated by Georgia, Yeah, it's gonna be I think
(02:07):
you're I think you're right. I think it's obviously and
clearly the best game on the board this Saturday, even
though we have A and M in Alabama playing. I
agree with Lance Taylor. I don't think that game is
going to be particularly close, but I think this one
has the potential to be close. But me being the
cynical Auburn fan that I am, and the fact that
we have not beaten Georgia in Athens since before I
(02:28):
had armpit hair, I'm not sure exactly. Yeah years since
Auburn went into Athens in one Yeah, which is pretty
unbelievable because Auburn's had some pretty decent teams at that time.
But I digress this game. I was not necessarily impressed
with Auburn last weekend. They got out gained, they they
(02:50):
did win the turnover against Kentucky. Against Kentucky, they got big,
big break on the touchdown. Yeah, that was blown. And
first of all, I love Auburn, okay, and I have
a lot of friends here in Nashville that I went
to school with. And it's such the it's such the
homer thing to do, because if you remember, the very
next play was the interception on the goal line Auburn
returned at a hundred yards. They reviewed it to see
(03:10):
if he stepped out of bounds, and they found a
targeting call. Now, the only complaints I heard from my
friends was, well, that was a bogus call on the targeting.
On the review, that was that we got screwed, And
I'm like, are you kidding me? They got screwed. They
should have The guy was halfway in the end zone,
half his body. It should have been six. They should
have been up by eight at halftime. Totally changed the game.
So I think Auburn, even though they covered with ease
(03:31):
on the scoreboard, I thought that was pretty much a
coin flip game if you take a deeper look at it.
So I think this line at seven is probably about right.
I think Georgia probably wins, even though their their quarterback
situation isn't ideal. I thought, uh, their third string quarterback
essentially that came in in the second half actually did
a really nice job. Granted it was Arkansas, but he
(03:53):
was able to move the ball. I'm probably expecting him
to play this week. I'm not sure how ready J T.
Daniels actually, I think it's a tough spot to just
throw him into the fire against a good Auburn team
and a pretty damn good Auburn defense. So I think
Georgia probably squeaks it out close at home, but obviously
I will be wearing my orangin blue and rooting for
(04:13):
my Auburn Tigers. So Stetson Bennett. Nobody can remember his name,
including me as the quarterback who came in for Georgia,
and I think you're right. I think he'll get to start. Uh.
I like Auburn. We gave this pick out yesterday. I
like Auburn plus seven. That line is kind of ticked
up to seven. I'm not sure what's going to happen.
And I've lost some money in these Auburn Georgia games
over the years because I've tended to be on Auburn
(04:34):
a lot. But I think that Auburn will be will
be competitive there. So that's your first round pick in
college football. My first round pick in college football. I
think it's Texas A and M in Alabama because I
really don't believe there's another great game going on in
college football. This is the SEC CBS game of the
week to me. Again, an hour one we talked about this.
(04:56):
It's been eight years since Johnny Manziel went on the
road in tuscal Looosa and became the legend and the
line was almost the exact same for that game, Alabama
around a seventeen point favorite. Johnny Manzel's shocked everybody there.
Alabama just wasn't losing at home under Nick Saban. They
still don't do it very often. One himself the Heisman
Trophy basically with that performance and became a SEC football legend. Obviously,
(05:20):
his NFL career did not go as he would have hoped,
or many other people would have helped hoped, certainly Brown's
fans among them. But in general here I think that
that this is a big game for Jimbo Fisher because
I expect for Alabama to win. But at what point,
given the fact that Jimbo is making seven and a
half million dollars a year, does A and M start
(05:41):
to make those major our coach is making seven and
a half million dollars a year strides and I'm not
sure it's gonna happen against Alabama, but I'm taking A
and M to cover. I think it is the second
best game after Auburn at Georgia on the calendar in
the SEC. Alright, I'm gonna stick with me because I
gave you the first pick for college football and in
(06:01):
the NFL, given the fact that we know Steelers Titans
isn't happening. To me, it's an easy call. I am
really really fascinated to see what happens with the Patriots
going on the road against the Kansas City Chiefs. Patriots
around a touchdown underdog in this game, the Chiefs coming
off of a Who's your Daddy performance against the Baltimore
(06:21):
Ravens Patrick Mahomes five touchdowns. Cam Newton has been good,
but he wasn't that great statistically in Week three. Uh,
he was phenomenal in Week two. Will this Patriot offense
be able to keep up with the Kansas City Chiefs?
Because Andy Reid has had a lot of success over
(06:42):
the years against Bill Belichick defenses, and it's almost impossible
right now to stop Patrick Mahomes. In fact, I think
the only way you can stop Patrick Mahomes is if
your front four is good enough to get substantial pressure
on him and you can drop seven people into zone
and try to take away their ability make really big plays.
That seems to be the best recipe to be able
(07:03):
to beat him. That's what the forty Niners did for
much of the Super Bowl. That's what the Chargers did
in Week two, uh, and that's what I think the
Patriots will try to do. I just don't think they
have the horses to get home against him, and that's
why I think ultimately the Chiefs are gonna pull away
win this game by double digits. And I still think
it's the best game Belichick against Reed, my Homes against Cam.
(07:25):
I think it's by far the best game in the
NFL schedule if I only had to pick one. What
about you, doub Yeah, I agree with you, And I
think one thing the Patriots will try to do because
I think the best defense against Kansas City is their
offense just not being on the field. So I'm gonna
look for New England to really get, you know, three
or four or five yards at a time on the
ground and just try to win time of possession. I
think that's their only shot. Uh. As far as the
(07:46):
other games, I'm looking at Brown's at Dallas, I agree.
I think that's a fascinating game because these are two
teams that are perpetual basically disappointments. We all know about
how bad Cleveland has been over the past basically twenty years.
In Dallas, they've had all the hype all the time
I picked him as my NFC champion to come out
this year. That that does not look like a good
prediction to this point, and both uh both teams have
(08:09):
some offensive firepower, the Cowboys through the air, the Browns
on the ground, I expect. I don't know if this
is on your six pack of picks, but the overs
have been cashing like nobody's business that's so far in
the NFL, and this over, although it's high fifty five
and a half, I don't really see any scenario where
both these teams aren't in the thirty plus point range.
So I think this is gonna be a shootout type game.
(08:32):
Dallas minus four to half at home. I think Cowboys
probably win, But I'm just fascinated by this matchup in general.
Two and one Cleveland going up against one and two
Dallas an absolute Well is it a must win for
Dallas in their division? I guess you can't. Well, that's
probably true, but if they fall the one in three
with Mike McCarthy, I do think you're You're probably right.
(08:54):
They have the benefit of being in the worst division
in football, So I really think seven and nine might
win the NFC East. I I don't. I mean, I
don't think that's an exaggeration at all. I think a
Nate would certainly do it, But you might be able
to win the NFC East with a losing record. So
for most teams in the NFL, falling to one in
three and hoping to win your division would be virtually
impossible to come back from. For the Cowboys, I think
(09:16):
they potentially could be able to come back from it.
But I think that's a fantastic suggestion for a game
that everybody needs to be watching. Be sure to catch
live editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays
at six am Eastern three am Pacific. I know many
of you have been listening to our Wins and Losses
podcast because I see the numbers and it keeps growing substantially.
There are now thirty four long form interviews there to
(09:39):
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you to check them out if you're going on trips
you've got long drives, you just want an interesting conversation
to listen to. The most recent is Megan Kelly, formerly
(10:00):
a Fox News journalist Warrior. We had an incredibly interesting
conversation that came out on Monday. But I want to
play a section of that interview for you now because
the feedback has been so phenomenal on it, and if
you like it, you can go download and listen to
the whole thing. Just type in Clay Travis or out
kick on Stitcher, iTunes wherever you are and you'll see
(10:22):
the Wins and Losses podcast podcast. Hop up. But here
we are Megan Kelly and me. Here's a part of
our conversation. When do you actually confess to the partners
and the people that you worked for and with at
Jones Day that you were exploring in a serious way journalism, Like,
how far into the process did you get before you
(10:43):
were like, Hey, this is you know, not guitar lessons
that I'm just doing on the side. This is something
that that maybe I have an interest in. So I
kind of got discouraged there. I was with my resume tape,
thinking okay, great, but I don't have a single connection,
you know, in news. I don't have anything on my
resume to suggest I could do news. You know, I
(11:06):
just had that feeling that I'm sure a lot of
people get, which is just apathy and self doubt, and
you know, the desire to stay in my couch. And
by the way, my therapist always says, the desire to
sand one's couch couch should always be fought like that.
Retreat is bad. It's almost always bad. And one day
(11:28):
I was watching Lifetime television, Lifetime Television play and they
ran this movie, this you know, Lifetime movie called the
Jessica Savage Story. And she was this amazing journalist back
in the late seventies eighties who was making it in
the man's industry, one of the only women. She was
like Jessica and Connie Chung and a young Barbara Walters.
And that was it. And it was a great story.
(11:49):
It ended in ruination, sadly, but hers as most Lifetime
stories do. At least you didn't get murdered by her husband, right.
But I was inspired to try, so I started cold
calling news directors and every single one was like, by
you know, no one wanted to talk to me. They
didn't they didn't want to help me. The doyn't want
to give me a chance. And finally I got smart
(12:11):
and I decided to walk my tape into the news
station in DC um W j l A, and they
had a cable channel that was like their sister, and
I thought, maybe they'll pop me on that cable channel
that's like not a lot of people are watching. I
got a shot there and I went in. I met
this guy, Bill Lord, who was the news director for
both and God bless that guy. He put me on
(12:33):
the air. So he started just just one day a week,
one day a week, and at that point I had
to disclose to Jones day that I was doing this
because day they might see me and be he could
create an ethical conflict depending on what I was reporting
on UM so he you know, I sort of said
it's just gonna be fun. I just want to try
it out, and they were a little leary, but said okay,
(12:55):
do it. And then I was doing pretty well and
Bill Lord said, well how about you do two days?
So I did Saturdays and Sundays and I did the
law job the other days. And then they came to
me and said, how about you do another day a
week and that would have required me to go part
time at Jones Day. And so I went and spoke
with a head of General Litigation, a guy named Tim Cullen,
who was so great, And he said, Okay, I'm sad
(13:18):
because this feels like a trial separation and those usually
lead to divorce. And I said, Tim, you know it
very well might, but I gotta try. So he he
let me stay at Jones Day, you know, part time. Um,
and then eventually I decided it was time to make
a full time leap. All right, So your how old?
(13:39):
The first time you go on air with I think
it was w j l A. You said, so, that
would have been two thousand three, so I was thirty two. Okay,
so you've never really done television before you're thirty two
years old. You get to go on this, uh, this
relatively small station in Washington, d C. What did you
do the first time that you were on television? The
(13:59):
very first time I ever saw myself on television. It
was taped, so I was clear like it was a
taped piece. And what would you remember the time? You
remember the topic of the tape piece? Do you remember
what you recorded? It was? Well, the very first thing
I ever did was on a hurricane and it was
Hurricane Isabelle that had gone through Virginia, and I thought
for sure. I always thought I was gonna be doing
(14:20):
mostly legal stuff that that had been my pitch. And
I remember calling Bill Lord because my first day was
a Friday, and I was like, probably don't need me,
right because the storms come in and you know, you're
not gonna need a lawyer, legal expert type. And he goes,
if you don't already have rain boots and rain pants
and rains like that, you better get up and get
in here, like oh no. And so it was a
(14:43):
crazy night and I did a report on not that
night but the next day on the hurricane and it
was fine. But the first time I had to do
a live shot where it's like go, you know, like
i'd practiced on the streets of Chicago, was at the
It was the dullest airport and there was something going
on the airport and security and they had a scare.
You know, it's just back when we were still pretty
(15:04):
close to nine eleven and there was a scare every
other day, um, and and it was during the headlights,
you know, and they're like you can hear the anchor
toss to you and really, I'm like, I don't know
who the hell I am? Who the hell am? I
just say your name, say something, say something resembling anything.
And I got through it, and I thought I had
been totally incomprehensible. When I looked back at it later,
(15:27):
it was okay, it wasn't hideous, but it was terrifying.
I'm Clay Travis is Wins and Losses. We're talking with
Megan Kelly. So do you go back, like an athlete
and study your early tapes in television to figure out
what you're doing well? Or did you find that you
kind of got a sense for how you were doing.
(15:48):
What about the discipline of television came to you and
how did you get better? I definitely went back and
looked at the tapes, and I think that's a must do,
you know, because it is a visual medium and you
have to see or whatever the mechanism is, listen to
yourself and see what works and what doesn't work. You know,
you may think you sound fine. When you go back
(16:10):
and you watch yourself, you see a totally different product.
So I did that for years when I first started,
you know, at w j L, A and then and
then at Fox News. But the truth is that is
a skill you only develop by doing it over and
over and over. You know. It's like typing, and you
you cannot type seventy words a minute before you've done
(16:32):
and so on. So I would just say yes to everything,
which I think every young person in a job should do.
I mean I I always tell the young people who
are asking me for advice, you know, if they want
you to empty the trash, empty the trash, like say
yes to every weekend ship, to working on Christmas. You know,
have some gumption, go after it, you know, don't don't
(16:52):
be a I'm I'm above this kind of person. And
that leads to opportunity, you know, because the sad truth
is it will set you apart from your competition, um
so and and and it just happened to be. And
in my profession, as it is in most that that
makes you better. You know, you get your ten thousand
hours in and before you know it, you're doing it
(17:12):
almost effortlessly. What I have found is, and this is
probably the legal background as well, what I get to
do now is make arguments. But instead of having to
take as you said earlier, sometimes you're on the wrong
side of an argument, You're like, boy, I'd rather have
the facts of that other side. Now, you know with
the position that I'm in, and I think you get
to do this now as well. You get to look
(17:32):
at all the facts, array them as you see fit,
and then make your case. And as you were talking
about your legal career, it struck me watch having watched
your television show. Basically, what you're doing is arguing in
front of a jury every single night about cases and
stories that matter the most to you in a compelling fashion. Right,
It's basically like an oral argument that you get to
(17:54):
make every single night when you're doing a live television show.
Absolutely and one of the biggest challenges but also rewards
if you do it right. Of of doing that show
in that way, was taking really condensed, really difficult subjects
and condensing them in a way that my imaginary viewer
(18:16):
that the one I picture in my head, Yes, she's working.
Who do you picture? By the way, who do you picture?
Because I I do that for my radio show, my
television show to an average person who's watching, Who in
your mind is an average Megan Kelly viewer? I have
a woman in my head named Madge who lives in Iowa.
She works all day. She's got a couple of kids,
and she and her husband come home from working at
(18:37):
night and they turn on the TV. Maybe they have
a glass of wine, and they want to consume their
news in a way that is easy to understand, somewhat entertaining, trustworthy,
and that they don't have to work too hard to get.
So it's my job to take something hugely complex, like
a Supreme Court ruling on redistricting and ride and make
(19:00):
Madge not have to work for it at all. It
Madg has to hit the rewind button on the remote control.
I have failed it should it's I used to call it.
It's like cool water going over a hot brain. That's
how I want my news delivery to feel to the consumer.
And and if you have to try too hard on
the air, you haven't tried hard enough prior to getting
(19:22):
to air. But I will say, Clay, one of the
things I like about you and and one of the
things I think maybe the solution to our entirely disgustingly
broken medium is more lawyers delivering the news in whatever
way works for them. Because lawyers, I think, in their
soul they're programmed to understand at least both sides and
(19:46):
to try in some way to recognize the other argument.
I do. And I don't know if it's just that
we're soulless hacks or you know, these trained elite arguers.
The latter sounds better, but whatever it is, lawyers, I
know Dan Abrams is another. They they're really good at
being fair. I don't think there's any doubt at all.
(20:09):
I mean, what I always say on my show is
I care about three things, the facts, the facts, the facts.
And one of the things that troubles me the most
about our country today is you can disagree with my
opinions or your opinions or anybody's opinion out there in
the world of media or your friends and family posting
on social media all day, but if you start with
incorrect facts, then you get to a place with an
(20:30):
incorrect opinion. And so uh, there's a lot of people
who don't care about the factual basis whether you're a Democrat, Republican, independent,
and it seems like we have lost that, particularly in
a social media age. And I do think lawyers are
better attuned to being able to consider both sides of
an issue. And at least understand the importance of facts,
(20:51):
because what you're talking about is basically the skills of
a great trial lawyer. And a great trial lawyer can
take facts which are honest and accurate and put the
best spend possible on them to advocate for the cause
they believe in. But they know that the facts have
to be right or the jury is not going to
trust him right face to face. It seems to me
we've lost the ability to recognize the foundational basis of fact.
(21:15):
It's one of the things that is most disturbing me
and most inspiring me to get back out there, because
both sides do it right. You know, President Trump, I
always say he doesn't. He doesn't have an adult relationship
with the truth. You know. I think all of his
years in real estate, UM sort of led him to
tolerate a certain level of you know, puffery we would
(21:38):
have called it in the law um. And so he is,
I think, by nature, and optimist who tries to oversell
positive outcomes. But he also if he gets himself in trouble,
he's not just gonna level with you about what he
did and why it wasn't a big deal. He's going
to try to tell you the facts are other than
what they are. That's a character trait that he has,
for better or for worse. But on the left, you
(22:00):
see like a post factual world when it comes to
discussions on tough subjects, you know, like the transgender issue
and the gender issue in general. You know that there's
there's no more biological sex and that you know, having
having certain genitalia is totally irrelevant to whether you're a
woman or a man. I don't believe that's true. Scientifically,
(22:24):
we can talk about what your life is like and
how you want to be accepted, and I'm totally pro
all of that, but there is a basis in science,
and I don't like this, the silencing of the scientific
community or even in the you know, all the Black
Lives Matter protests that we saw this summer. You know,
you can want to be an advocate against racism without
(22:46):
making up lies about the police. Uh. And I'm not
talking about George Floyd, but I'm talking about the lies
that were put out there about the number of cases
of police brutality, but of police killings of black men,
there are real data on that, and they've been they've
been either suppressed, their silenced. In fact, I've I've got
(23:09):
it right here. I mean that that I keep because
it's been such a big topic in the world of sports. Um,
you know, a police officer is seventeen times seventeen and
a half times as likely to be killed by a
black potential suspect as a police officer is to kill
an unarmed black man in this country. Right, that's a fact.
(23:30):
I'm reading directly from the Wall Street Journal. The data
is clear and transparent and straightforward. That is factual basis. Now,
we can talk once we have those facts in place
about ways to make the country better based on our
relationship between police and those that they consider suspects of crimes,
whatever race. They might be right to try to dial
down the tension, but it's as if that fact makes
(23:54):
people uncomfortable, and so you can't even have an honest
conversation about how to fix things if you can't begin
with a common basis effect. That's right, because they'll call
you a racist, and no one wants to be called
a racist. And and it's it's sad because book, I'm
sort of a free agent now, right, So it's like
I don't really care what they call me, and They've
(24:15):
already called me all the me memes that I'm doing
just fine, but I do worry about civilians right, for
lack of a better term, because they don't want to
put themselves out there. I've got good friends who are
you know, they're successful doctors and lawyers, and they can't
even like a tweet without having to worry. And that's
not okay. You know that the data on police shootings
(24:39):
or killings of black suspects are knowable. They are knowable.
It's not a perfect science, but they have been reported
for years. The Washington Post has been keeping running tally
of it all and for some reason, and you know,
people can draw their own conclusions. These activists want us
only to look at the percentage of black people in
(25:01):
the population, which tends to be around and then look
at the number of black people who are killed by
police in a year, and that's just not the relevant data.
They don't want you to factor in at all the
level of black criminality, and that the Wall Street Journal
has been doing a great job and reporting the facts
on this, but over the violent crimes and the major
(25:24):
cities of this country are committed by black men. Now,
the cops are not they're they're not arresting women, if
that doesn't make them sexist against men. They're going after
the people who are committing the crime, and so necessarily
the interactions between those guys and polices they're going to
go up, and they're fraught because if you resist arrest,
(25:47):
and the data show that that's what's happened in virtually
all these cases where a death results, your odds of
getting injured or killed by the police officers go up exponentially.
That's an argument that is all factual based, Right. I
think it's an important one that needs to be discussed
in the country. You couldn't say that on CNN today.
You couldn't say that today on MSNBC, Right, I really
(26:09):
don't think you could. Why do you think and you
worked and had your own show, and you did had
a tremendous success at Fox News. Why do you think
our society, media culture has created this world where there
are facts that aren't allowed to be spoken on television
on certain networks, and by the way, you can make
(26:31):
it across the board, right there facts probably that make
Fox News viewers uncomfortable that don't get shared very often.
We don't have a Walter cronkite of the world who's
sitting down and kind of the arbiter that everybody trust
to be a great official, so to speak, of the
world at large. How do we put the genie back
in the bottle? Can we Are things going to even
get worse from here? Boy? I mean, I think with
(26:55):
what's happening with this sort of woke culture. Um, you
know the social justice warriors, it's gonna be tough there
there that's a small group of Americans. They do not
represent the majority in trying to cancel everybody and shut
everybody up. But they're really loud, and the media is
they're in complete fealty to that small group. Um. And
(27:16):
so it's dangerous. And I'll tell you most there are.
There are so many intellectuals black and white, but a
lot of black intellectuals who are sort of pushing a
more heterodox view, you know, from Glenn Lowry to Coleman
Hughes obviously, um, Shelby Steele, Thomas houl But so you
can read black intellectuals who have done all the research
(27:36):
on this um and see what their worldview is. It
would it would back up everything I just said, right,
go look at read Jason Riley in the Wall Street Journal.
If you want to know the facts, um, but if
a white person says it, they're gonna call you a racist.
So you just, you know, to really know what's going on,
you have to actually be prepared to take some you know,
some some punches in the face. But I think what's
(27:57):
happened with the media is they're left They're not just liberal,
they're leftist, and they love to virtue signal. You know,
early on in my career, I had sent down to
cover the Duke what we now know is the fake
rape case with Duke lacrosse case. Yes, yep, and uh
I went down. When I first heard about that case,
(28:17):
I was new to Fox. It was like two thousand five,
and I at the time it's thirty four, so I
was whatever, not that far out of college. And I
was like, these guys they probably did it, you know,
like a section the cross players, and you know, you
had you had preconceived stereotypes as a you know, girl
who had gone to Syracuse. You're like, oh, I can
(28:38):
see these stupid lacrosse guys doing something like this, by
the way, everybody does. And then one of the great
things about being a lawyer, is you end up representing
people that you're like, man, this guy seems like a
total jerk, and then you start to look at the
facts and you're like, man, maybe this is not very
similar at all to what was initially reported. So that's fast.
So you go down to Duke and when do you
(29:00):
start to have doubts about that case as a lawyer
and you start to look at it because you're in
a unique position there. Well, I'll tell you the first
thing I happened before I left for North Carolina was
britt Hume, my boss and the DC Bureau said, um,
keep an open mind. And it was just the small
piece of advice, but it was the best advice, right
because it's just a good reminder that it really isn't
(29:22):
about what I think, It's about where the facts lead.
And I'm going down there in a fact finding mission.
So that's what I did. And I went down and
Fox gave me the you know, latitude to develop sources. Normally,
they just have each other to a camera, we have
to do live shot every half hour on a big
story like that, but they sent a different report to
to do that so I could actually develop tax and
(29:44):
it was very clear if you just had an open mind,
the facts did not support this woman's allegations. Her story
started to fall apart very early, and I reported those
inconsistencies in her story and so on. And at the time,
this is very early in my career, people were suggesting
it was racist of me and each exist of me
(30:06):
to be quote siding with these three white privileged guys
instead of this, uh, single mother, black um person who
lived on sort of the Durham side as opposed to
the Duke's side. You know, it's like that there's two
areas of Durham ones, one's less affluent than the other.
And uh, I just had to forge through that. You
(30:29):
just had to say, Okay, they're gonna call me names,
but I have to report the news. That's what I'm
made me paid to do. And you know who the
other person was who was getting the facts right, who
was on cable news at that time, Dan Abrams, who
I mentioned earlier, a lawyer who came to MSNBC at
the time from Court TV. And his dad is Floyd Abrams,
(30:49):
the famed First Amendment attorney who argued New York Times
to be solid it. So I just think, you know,
being open minds of the facts helped me land in
the right place and on these cop shooting um that
you just have to be open minded. You have to
be open minded and go where the evidence goes. That's phenomenal. Again,
(31:09):
if you want the full conversation, an hour and twenty
conversation between the two of us, very very interesting. I
promise that you will enjoy it. So many different angles
to hit there. Encourage you to go search it at
seek it out on wins and losses with Clay Travis.
When we come back, we'll dive back into the NFL,
continue to discuss the upcoming weekend and more. Fox Sports
(31:32):
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f
s R to listen live. I am super excited, as
I know many of you are, for college football and
the NFL this weekend and to be back officially underway.
Here we are in the Geico out King Studios and
(31:55):
one game that I don't think has gotten enough attention,
certainly on this program or probably anywhere else in the media.
You heard Dubb and I drafting the games that we're
most excited to watch. I'm kind of excited to see
what's gonna happen with the Colts against the Bears, because
this may be a sneaky, outstanding game. And let me
explain why. I believe that the Bears obviously are bringing
(32:17):
in Nick Foles, and we know Nick Foles is great
as a backup in short relief, but he hasn't ever
really been able to go the distance. He's like a
closer in Major League Baseball. We got all these Major
League Baseball games going on, and you can bring him
in for an inning or two and he's gonna mow
people down, but he's not the guy that necessarily can
take you all the way from the beginning. So that
(32:38):
they passed the baton really early in the season to
Nick Foles and took Mitch Drabinsky out of the mix.
So what I find to be particularly intriguing about this
game is a lot of us, myself included, stop paying
attention to the Colts the minute that they lost that
opening week to the Jacksonville Jaguars, and since that time,
the Colts have been on a tear. They be down
(33:00):
the Vikings. The Jets are no good, but the Colts
took care of them with ease. And I think what
is interesting is nobody can get to him. Nobody can
get to him at all. Stat that blew me away.
Philip Rivers has been pressured seventeen times so far this year.
He averaged averaged being pressured fourteen times a game last
(33:23):
season in l A. So with the Chargers, Philip Rivers
could never stay upright. He had an incredible amount of
of hits that he was taking. He's not getting hit
at all so far this year by anybody. So can
the Bears get to him? Can Khalil Mack and company
get to Philip Rivers and knock him off his spots
(33:45):
and make him unable to really have a great deal
of success in the passing game? And or can the
Colts step up and knock the Bears from the ranks
of the unbeaten and take advantage of knowing that Nick
Foles is theoretically going to be the guy throughout the
course of that game. To me, this is one of
the top of the line games to be paying attention
(34:08):
to in the NFL that's going to get almost no
attention whatsoever from the larger universe. The other game that
I think is not gonna get a lot of attention,
and it's not a matchup of good teams so far.
But with guys we got owen three Vikings going on
the road against the oh and three Texans. What's gonna
happen here? For Mike Zimmer and Bill O'Brien. These were
(34:30):
both teams that were in the playoffs last year, and
the Texans at least can say they've played a really
challenging schedule, and so can in many ways the Vikings.
They both have played a lot of good teams. I'm
trying to do live math, and you always know how
that's dangerous for me on the radio, But I believe
the Texans opponents are right now a combined nine and
(34:51):
oh dub You can verify that that's true. And I
believe that the Vikings opponents right now are a combined
eight and one. I think the lead team the Vikings
played that has lost a game at all is the Colts,
and I believe so if you do the math there
and again live radio, live on the air math, I
believe the Vikings and the Texans have to have combined
to play teams that have gone seventeen and one so
(35:14):
far this season, all right, so sorry the Ravens. I
was given the Ravens credit. Both of them are eighting one,
so Glad Doub's corrected me. There sixteen and two instead
of seventeen and one. The point is they have played
a lot of really good football teams. So the Vikings
and the Texans both have lost every game so far
there o n six combined, but they have played teams
(35:34):
that have gone sixteen and o overall sixteen and two overall. Sorry,
a lot of live math here. The point is the
Vikings and the Texans have played good teams and they've
lost to them. But what's gonna happen when they go
head to head here? Because if you look ahead for
their schedules, there's not a lot of easiness on the
schedules going forward. Necessarily, the Vikings still have to go
(35:56):
to the Seahawks. Maybe they get the Falcons, but the Falcons,
who knows what the world's gonna happen there? And then
you come back against the Packers. The Vikings are staring
and oh and six or a one in one in
five start into the into the season. And I've said
this about the Texans from the get go. They're in
legitimate danger of starting one in six or two in five,
(36:18):
or maybe even worse. The Texans go the Jags, not
an easy game necessarily like you thought. And then they
go to the Titans. They play the Packers. I mean,
this is a mess for them. So this battle of
oh and three teams, somebody's close to falling apart, and
the team that wins is going to have a bit
of a lifeline. The team that loses is done for.
It's effectively elimination game in the NFL. I want to
(36:41):
watch that one as well. Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
listen live.
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