July 11, 2025 • 40 mins
Crazy money is dropped for Cooper Flagg’s debut vs Bronny in the Summer League. NFL Columnist for CBSSports, Pete Prisco stops by and it’s a Superman weekend on Lee’s Leftovers.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, thanks for listening to the Two Pros and a
Cup of Joe podcast with LaVar Arrington, Brady Quinn and
myself Jonas Knox. Make sure you catch us live weekdays
six to nine am Eastern Time three to six am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. You can find your local
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show over at Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us
(00:22):
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Give this.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, Fox Sports Radio,
LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here. You can hang
out with us on the iHeartRadio app. You can find
us on hundreds of affiliates all across this country and
wherever you are making us a part of your football Friday.
We appreciate you doing so, as we take you all
the way up until the end of this hour nine
am Eastern time, six o'clock Pacific, another edition of Black
(01:01):
and Drack here on a Football Friday.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's the last one. You guys, go, You guys got
what you want yet? Look that's the last one. Guys.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I just love how people blame you and me for
black and drag, Like you're blaming us for black and drag.
A man, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey, I didn't. I didn't choose to look like Dracula, So.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I didn't choose to be black, but I am. In fact,
we didn't choose to be doing black and drag show.
You know, well we did. I mean, we did choose
for it to be.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Guts to God saw me and was like God saw me.
I was like, no, a little more.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Pale, Dang, we could go a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We go a little bit more, you know, make it
look like the guy is gonna wake up out of
a car often next to a room full of candles.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Just a smidge more, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Just do that. So yeah, whatever it looks like Dracula,
Lvar's black, Who cares? I mean, people got to get
over it, man, all right, it's one of the great
show names of all time, Black and drack and radio.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
There's a lot of them though, just so y'all know.
So there you go. You can be happy again. And
all the people that don't listen when he's off, he's
back Monday. So whatever it is, y'all got to say
say it to him when he gets back, Like, I
don't see why y'all took all his time to come
at us. I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I don't even know who him is.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Like, yes you do.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I have no idea. Stop that doing the show here
on a football Friday.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
It is a football Friday.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
What would you say if you had to think off
the top of your head, because I was thinking about this,
like worst sporting event you've ever attended that you look
back on and go, man, I actually, and I don't
know when, like if you've ever paid like a high
dollar for tickets or anything like that, or paid for
a sporting event and then you look back and you go, man,
(03:04):
I really did that for that game. Like, I don't know.
If anything stands out to you, I'll tell you mine.
I went to a Jesus, this is so bad. First
time I ever took my wife now wife then girlfriend
to Chicago. I was like, yeah, we'll go around, we'll
cruise around. It was August and so we went to
(03:24):
a Bears Dolphins preseason game. It was awful. I think
I think the starters played three plays and we just
ended up hanging out and walking around the stadium like
we just walked around Soldier Field or whatever. We might
have left it halftime, but I was like, all right,
you know, we paid like thirty five forty bucks for tickets.
They weren't great seats. We got to see him, and
(03:46):
then we bailed and went and got dinner and drinks
and then you just called it a day. But I
look back at that and I go, I actually paid
money for a preseason game. That's embarrassing, in a preseason
game that wasn't interesting at all because starters didn't even
really partic dissipate on any level. And I say all that,
and I don't know if you have one off the
top of your head.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
No, seke, you keep going, keep going. It's not even
off the top because I've never had a sporting event
that I didn't really the only time that I found
myself painfully, painfully, painfully bored, I didn't pay for it.
I was a guest and I was there, but it
was just like, God, leaders, this s is boring. Was tennis.
(04:32):
I've been to a tennis match before one or two,
and that s was boring, like paint dry boring, Like
I don't know, it's boring. Where was the baseball was
a little boring too, man, But I liked I liked
at least the ambiance of like the energy of baseball games.
(04:54):
Like like at tennis matches, people are freaking snobs man,
like they're it's not it's like you have to walk
around like almost like I've been to a golf golf
even golf people are less snooty than tennis people. You know,
it's just and it makes it boring because you feel
(05:16):
like you got to like be on guard, like you
have to maintain this level of how you conduct yourself,
like meaning like you know, drink your water and sit
there and don't make any noise. And it's just it was.
It was boring. Yeah, painfully born, way too snobby.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And where was the tennis match at? Was this it
like Wimbledon?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Or I was at Indian wells Man down the road. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, I say all that because I can't even believe
that these numbers are real, but apparently they're real. So
for Cooper Flagg's debut in the Summer League against Ronnie James,
all right, that took place at the Thomas and Max Center,
What would you say the ticket prices were that were
(06:08):
going for when it came to to try and get
into the game, Like, what would you say, you know,
some of the ticket prices would be for a summer
league game involving the Mavericks and the Lakers. What would
you say, like A, I mean, knowing the.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Build up behind Cooper Flag, I'd say, are you saying
on high or on average?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I mean, what court side seat.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
A courtside seat? I would say maybe five thousand.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Really twenty five hundred dollars you could sit courtside for
Cooper Flag's debut at the Thomas and Mack Center. But
they were selling tickets in the lower bowl for six
hundred and fifty dollars.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Thats what again, if you would have said what was
the lower I would I think I would have went
four or five hundred. But you're saying courtside for his
first game. I mean because in theory, this could be
a a historical moment for you know, for the NBA,
it could be a historical moment for Cooper Flays. His
first game. Man, if he's as good as everybody thinks
(07:11):
he is, I mean, he had a decent showing, well,
he had ten points, he had a decent outing and
you got to keep in mind for what it's worth.
You know, Bronnie James is is a name. He's a name,
and that can sell tickets. That can move that weight,
you know, going move that weight, Gone move a weight.
(07:32):
I think that you know, that was a that's a
nice little that's a nice little deal. You know, get
get a little matchup between Bronnie and and Flag.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Some fans begin lining up at five forty five in
the morning. The game didn't start until eight Eastern time,
and fans were lining up at five forty five local
time because they just wanted to get the best view.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Of It started eight Eastern times, and then people started
lining up in Vegas at five forty five. Yeah, you
do know that. That's that's isn't is in Vegas three
hours behind.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Five forty five in the morning for an eight PM
Eastern time case?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Okay, right, eight, So a five PM game in Vegas.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And they're lining up at five forty five for the
game in the morning.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, that's crazy. But that's that's like student section action. Now,
you know student section people, they camp out, that's what
they do. People. That's some people that's like, that's like
attendance that's that's sports attendance etiquette. Some people depending on
why they they do it, Like for student seats, it's
(08:46):
it's like you have a seat and it's a it's
a area where the student section sits. It's first come,
first served. So if you have your tickets, you have
your tickets, but you're I believe the way, you're not assigned.
So it's a when they opened the gate, it's a
mad dash to get into the front. He did. It's
(09:09):
so and the longer year you wait or the further
back you are, the higher up you are in the seating.
So maybe that's how they were approaching it.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I mean, I'll say this, it's great for the league
if there's this much buzz surrounding a guy like Cooper
Fly and listen, Bronnie James being there, I think is
also an added benefit because say whatever you want about
Bronnie James, and people can mock Bronnie James. But man,
I can remember looking at numbers from our show and
stuff that was online, YouTube clicks, things like that, and
(09:42):
just to give people a little behind the scenes, some
of those clips were the most listened to clips that
we did. We're on Bronnie James. For whatever reason, that
guy generates a buzz. And there was a buzz last
night in Las Vegas for Cooper Flagg's debut, and that's
great for the NBA. It was Look, when Zion came in.
(10:02):
People forget this because that same summer that was when
Paul George and Kawhi Leonard got traded ended up with
the Clippers. But the night before there was an earthquake
in Vegas. Zion was in the Summer League. There was
a whole buzz about him and a whole buzz about
what this could look like. Based on him getting to
(10:24):
the NBA.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
They were trying to say he was going to be
the next Jordan. Bruh. There was a point in time
where they are life, look at the numbers this guy,
Zion Williams, and he has better numbers than Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean, I'll say this, they tried to make you
Mike when he was uh. And by the way, you
talk about somebody who's actually had a pretty decent NBA career,
but you know, nobody. If people just want to look
at it and be like, ah no, he's a bust,
he's at the player. Everybody thought he was well well
he's not. He's not, but it does mean where.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Is he By the way, is he going to play
this year? Where where has he been? Have we seen him?
When's the last time we've seen him.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
He's not a bad player, but he's also uh, you know,
he's he's not the number one pick that everybody thought
he was going to be, But he's not a bad player.
Like he's actually played pretty good.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
When he plays, he plays well.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
But like I see the numbers, I see the lines
forming outside for a summer league in Vegas, and it's
like one hundred and ten degrees in Vegas, and people
are waiting around to watch Cooper Flag take on Brownie James,
And I go, all right, well that's good news. I mean,
it's good news for the NBA. At least you've got
another recognizable star, another star that delivered at a prominent
(11:38):
university in Duke and made a deep enough run in
in college basketball in the NCAA Tournament to where now
the NBA's got something. At least they've got something there,
because I would have if you would have told me, hey,
guess the price of tickets, Guess what the buzz is
going to be like for Cooper Flagg's debut in the
Summer League. I'd be oh, yea, there's probably gonna be
(12:00):
a little bit of buzz DDE six hundred and fifty
dollars to watch a Summer League game.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Sometimes the first time is the last time. You know.
Sometimes you're not as valuable moving forward as you were
for the first time. You know, and that that unknown
he's he's coming in with so much fan fear and
so much coverage and so much hype that you know,
you may not ever get to feel it or experience
(12:27):
it from this level of hype. The more he plays,
you know, you just don't know. I mean he didn't
have the best of games. I mean, he shot poorly
from the field, and he you know, he he didn't.
I mean, he had a he had a couple of
nice moments. I mean, he he showed some swag, you know,
he going down the sideline and you know, stare down
(12:48):
people when he made a play, like he's got that
that dog mentality. And I like it. But I think
if you're looking at it from the standpoint of excitement,
I think he does generate excitement Summer League. I mean,
this is just that time of the year. Where if
you can get an opportunity to see a young star
(13:10):
for the first time before everybody gets a hold of it.
I don't you know, if you got that type of
time on your hands and you don't have a problem
sitting somewhere from five forty four five forty five am
in the morning, then I guess, I guess that's what
you do. But sometimes you know the most entertained, Like
you're talking about Zion, I bet you Zion probably had
(13:33):
some of his more memorable moments in the summer league
that he played in coming out of college because he
was probably still in college shape.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I mean, you notice the stars of like the stars
that have come out in the draft into the NBA,
whether it's Zion, Wembe, Cooper Flag, what do they all
have in common? We knew about them before they got there.
And that's what college football in the NFL has over
(14:03):
the NBA and college basketball because in college football, you build,
for lack of a better term, a brand, a reputation.
You're recognizable. And it's why the NFL Draft is as
big of a deal as it is because good point,
we know who these guys are. We've watched them at
a high level for years now. We know their stories,
(14:24):
we know the games they played well in, we know
their accomplishments. We know all that, and then they're presented
to an NFL audience who knows them because they probably
also watch them on Saturdays, the day before their favorite
team on a Sunday. So you know who all these
guys are. And if you're trying to fix the lack
of star power or wondering how the NFL or how
(14:45):
the NBA can get things turned around, you got to
figure out a way to either work somehow someway with
college basketball and the developmental aspect of things to where
people know who the hell these guys are. Because there's
a lot of people who are watching the NBA draft
going I have no idea who that guy is. He
plays in Europe, suite, never heard him before. Cooper Flag,
(15:07):
I know him. He played at Duke Zion. I know him,
he played at Duke Wemby, heard stories about him, saw highlights.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I know that guy is legends.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah like and then you start watching him, you go, oh, yeah,
he is that good. I just think this is this
is exhibit a of how you sort of bridge the
gap from college to pros You've got to do a
better job of promoting these guys and building them up
through the process. If you want people to stand in
(15:36):
line at five point forty five in the morning for
a game that doesn't start for twelve hours.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It's an interesting take, you know. I mean, I think
about even guys that didn't go to college. Lebron didn't
go to college. We knew all about him, all about it,
I mean, the heir apparent and lived up to it.
Kevin Garnett, you know that's we knew all about you
(16:01):
know before, like the the stories of his pro workouts
are legendary, Like they talk about how he did his
his last rep just as well as he did his
first rep, in the amount of energy and fire he
had and him doing what he was doing. I mean,
but to your point, I think a more relevant, a
(16:26):
more relevant you know, I guess addition to to what
you've stated is that when we were when we were
growing up, you know, you you knew who UNLV had
as the running rebels. You you knew, you even knew
the coaches. You know, you knew that tark was, you know,
going to chew on his on his towel, like there
(16:48):
was like you know, personality connected to these these people.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Like when I say the name Thomas and MaxEnt or
what do you think of the nineteen nineties running rebels,
Like that's.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I just I hear. If I hear running rebels, I
immediately think of Larry Johnson, Stacy Agen, Kevin Hunt, and
Greg Anthony Ackles, Moses Scurry. I still know their their lineup.
And I'm not even that I was a basketball guy.
I played basketball first, but even to kind of commit
(17:24):
those things to memory, like I know who the fat
five are you say, the University of Michigan basketball. I
can even go back to telling you about Ramel Robinson
and Glenn Rice. You know, and we knew these guys
coming in those tar Hill teams for a long time,
with Rashid and George Lynch and and Phelps and and
(17:46):
all the different guys that came through. You know, Duke Carolina,
you know that even you Mass had a moment in time,
even Temple had a moment in time where you were
like yep, Aaron mc he and Eddie Jones like let's
go like these were guys that you were like, man,
you were excited to see them transition.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Saint Joseph's with Jamiir Nelson and Delandre. We absolutely know
that you knew it.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Were you know it just to me, I don't. I'm
not sure why that is that there's been a disconnect
in building the brands of basketball players to the to
the masses, because you know, a lot of guys were
leaving early back then too. Though it's not like it's
(18:35):
it's like the engagement of it all has changed. There
were guys that chose to stay, Like the Fab Five,
they chose to stay, you know, the running Rebels, they
chose to stay. Like you know, the teams in Duke,
you know with Latner and and the Hills and all
those they chose to stay. You know, Hurley and all
(18:56):
those guys. You got an opportunity to get to know.
The teams that really really resonate and stick are the
teams that had guys that stayed together for more than
one year. I will say that, And maybe that is
the fundamental difference as to why, you know, we don't
really know the people that are coming out of college
(19:20):
and going into the pros. Maybe maybe that plays a
part in it, because you don't build that brand of
not only the individual, but the brand of the team
and what that team represents. It's like every team we remember,
it's connected to something pretty specific. Yeah, and you don't,
you don't really have that anymore. Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Kind of a shame. It is Two Pros and a
Cup of Joe here on Fox Sports Radio, and it's
Jonas Knox here and at the Home Depot. It is
about time for pros to source the whole job with
one partner. Ask about all we can do for you
at the pro Desk, the Home Depot Pro. It's about time,
all right. It's coming up next here on the show.
On this for Ball Friday, we are going to talk
some football with our resident red ass, the one and
(20:04):
only Pete Prisco in a rare Friday appearance is yours
here on FSR.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe Fox Sports Radio,
LaVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with the air coming up in
about twenty minutes from now, we will close up shop
with another edition of Lee's Leftovers that will be yours
here on FSR. Right now, though, it is time for
a rare Friday appearance from the one and only Smooth
Operator himself. Pete Prisco, senior NFL columnist for CBS Sports,
(20:46):
CBS Sports HQ Analysts. You can get them on X
if you want some of that smoke at Prisco, CBS. Pete,
good morning. How we feel in here on a Friday?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
What's up? Guys?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
How are you hey? How you doing? Pete?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
We're just, you know, we're trying. We're trying to figure
out why your guy Najia Harris is playing with fireworks
on fourth July, trying to figure out you.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
No, I don't get it, man, I really don't. Just
just stay away from it. Why would you subject yourself
to something like that, especially after what happened to Jason
Pierre Paul back in the day. I mean, I don't.
I just believe me. I've been around guys that I've
seen them try and you know, play with fireworks, and
I don't go anywhere the firecrackers even or fireworks. I
(21:26):
don't go anywhere near that stuff. I never have. But
just just why put yourself at any sort of risk
at all to lose a finger or hand or anything else.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I don't get it either, for some strange reason.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Then again, up, I'm not a big fireworks guy either.
I'll be honest with you, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
What I mean, why and why should you be? And
why and why would you be? You know? Maybe watch them?
I like watching them, and even that's even a little overrated,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, LeVar. I think when
you watch them, all everybody does go and then it's
done right the grand finale, though there's always a.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Grand finale, always always Speaking of grand finales, Pete, we
were having the discussion of if you were to say,
who are going to be the top three teams out
of each each conference? Who would they what? What teams
would they be? I'm curious, who do you see as
(22:34):
the top three teams and the NFC, and who you
see as the top three teams and the a f C,
and and just give a quick reason maybe why.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Not in any order? Not in any order?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
But well I may I forced Jonas to put them
in order, But if you don't want to put them
in order, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Number one right now is Philadelphia. I think in the NFC,
I think they're loaded. They got everybody back. But you know,
I know it's hard to repeat, and everybod's gonna gunning
for you. That's why why I won't pick them the repeat.
But right now there's the number one team, Green Bay,
who I think last year was impacted greatly by the
health of their quarterback, the health of their wide receivers
(23:12):
at times. I think green Bay is going to be
really good. I think defensively they're going to be even
better than what they've been, even though there's some people
that question their quarterback position. I think they're going to
be much better. And then number three, i'd probably go with.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Probably this is going to surprise some people. I think
Camp is the real deal. Oh wow, Yeah, I really do.
And I think their roster is loaded across the board.
And not only that, there's a lot of good mix
of young and old. And when you have a good
mix of young and old, that's usually a good combination
(23:49):
because you have the veterans that can elevate those younger.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Guys, and you have the younger guys that can kind
of bring the juice out in the older guys, and
I think that team is loaded now missing worse for
how over long? That will be a big hit to
them early in the season. But I do think that
team is talented across the board.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
I'm sorry, all right, I'll give you the AFC AFC.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Buffalo is number one in my book right now. I
think they're the best team. Number two would be Kansas
City and number three would be Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
M What is the hesitation to not have Baltimore one? Like,
if you had to say, like, what would be your
the one thing that you would look at Baltimore and
go I just can't pay because they two see like
a team that's loaded. So what would be the hesitation
with Baltimore to and put them higher?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
What's kind of been what the same hesitation you've had
with Buffalo over the years is what do you what's
the quarterback do in the post? And then not that
the quarterback, but the team and their and their case
the quarterback doing the post, team, I.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Says, quarterback for both of them, though you're.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right, well, the quarterback, the quarterback in Buffalo has actually
been pretty done good in the postseason.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
If you go back and look at his Berzi he's
been good in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The team has wilted at times in the postseason, but
you go to you know, the Ravens and Lamar Jackson
hasn't been the same quarterback in the postseason. So he's
got to go out there and prove that he can
do that. And I think that's the one hesitation. Don't
get me wrong, he's a magnificent player. But you know, guys,
Peyton Manning had that hanging over his head for a
long time. Until you win, and win at all, it's
going to be sitting there and it's gonna be a
(25:23):
question about you. So I think those are the things
that kind of hold me from saying that's the number
one team. I think Buffalo's loaded. I think what they've
done in the offseason has been outstanding. They revamped that defense,
you know, adding some good young guys to that defense.
Once they get uh, you know, Boza going and you know, yeah,
you don't need him now, you need him in December
and January. I think that's an important pickup for them
(25:45):
as well.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Pete. When you look at Jared Goff's comments when he
was talking on the most recent episode of Quarterback from Netflix,
and you just talking about how he wishes the Rams
would have handled the trade with a little more maturity,
et cetera, et cetera. I look at it and I go, yeah,
in real time, I can understand him saying that, but
(26:09):
it feels like that's a move that worked out better
for everybody. Jared Goff has been better in Detroit than
he was with the Rams. He probably was a little
bit upset and hurt by the trade, but I think
at the end of it all, he was never going
to be loved and never going to maybe reach that
level of success with La and in Detroit they hit
(26:29):
lightning in the bottle and everybody came out a winner
on both sides.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, because the Rams won the Super Bowl with Stafford,
so it worked for them. The Lions haven't won the
Super Bowl yet with GoF, but they've been, you know,
one of the better teams in the league and he's
put up amazing numbers. So yeah, from that standpoint, it
has worked out. But you could almost. But again, these
guys got to learn the NFL is a cruel business.
I mean, there's no you know, loyalty. I don't care
(26:56):
what anybody says, Oh, you're a part of my team.
No you're not. You're part of my team, so they
don't need you anymore. Then you're not part of the team.
So to be hurt by that, you've got to expect
that as a player in the NFL. Now, if you
have a real close relationship with your head coach Sean
McVay and he doesn't tell you or handle it and say, hey, look, Jared,
we got something coming down the down the pike here,
(27:18):
you're gonna have to We're gonna make a deal for you.
I just wanted to give you a heads up. It's
not done yet, but we're going to make a deal
for you and call you in and tell you exactly
why you're doing it. Then I think that could be
a problem between you and that coach, but not necessarily
the organization. Come on, the organizations aren't loyal to anybody.
You know what they're loyal to. You know what we
all know d're loyal to. You're damn right, And you
(27:41):
know what, bottom line, trying to win a trophy. That's it.
That's all they're loyal to. And if you can't help
them win a trophy, they're going to get you out
the door. And if you're too much money they're going
to get you out the door. That's basically the reality
of the NFL.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Well, let's let's continue on that. I think that's a
great point. I don't find myself saying that about your
points off and uh yeah, but that one was a
good one. Let me ask you. I have a joking.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know what, LaVar LeVar. You you you read the
book about football that I write every week.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So you know what, just so I can make sure
I'm on the same page if I decide to jump
off the rails like you do most often. But can
we talk about this right here, the trade that took
place between the Miami Dolphins and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Who
do you think got the better end of that deal?
(28:31):
Or is it kind of a you know, an offsetting
type of of of deal. What? What like? What did
you think when you saw that trade take place?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, Miami had they painted themselves in a corner with jail.
Ramsey had to get rid of them, you know, once
you put that out there, you have to get rid
of them. And and so Pittsburgh looks like a team
that's all in for the year, So it made sense
to go get a guy like that. Micka Fitzpatrick. Okay,
for all the people that love on MIKEO Fitzpatrick, and
there are plenty of them. And by the way, both
(29:03):
these guys have problems. You know, Jalen Ramsey's been unwanted
in several spots he's been at he's worn out as
welcome and Miami being one of them. You know, the
Rams didn't know. Everybody said, oh, the Rams are going
to welcome him back and try and get to win,
go get a win the Super Bowl with him again.
Did they get him back? Oh, Jacksonville, they wanted Jacksonville.
They wanted him out. And so he's been an issue
at every place he's been. Now, make I Fitzpatrick, remember
(29:26):
he wanted out of Miami. He quit on the team
a couple of years ago before they traded him to Pittsburgh.
And then when they traded into Pittsburgh, you hear stuff
coming out of Pittsburgh that he was the guy freelancing
all over the place and was a big problem with
the defense last year. So everyone those two guys have
major issues in terms of off the field. I don't
think Fitzpatrick's played as well as everybody expected, and Ramsey
(29:48):
has not been very good either. The last couple of
years it's just been okay. So what do the dealers do.
They think they got themselves a corner or a guy
that can move around and play some safety. They can
use them in different spots, and you know that's become
the trend. Now. A guy could do so many different things,
and truth be known, his best year was probably when
he was with the Rams, playing that star position where
he was up near to the line of scrimmage and
(30:08):
could do a lot of different things. So it might
work for the Steelers. They had to eat some money,
Miami paying themselves in a corner. And I never really,
never really understood why Flat app came out and said
you were getting rid of them before you actually had
a trade value or trade market for him.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
John new Smith goes in with the trade though, is
that if you do apples and apples with those two
does does a top four and receiving yards tight end?
Does that put it over the top that that you
would say the Steelers won in that that draft exchange, Miami,
that trade exchange.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Miami needs a reset. Let's be real, Miami. I mean
they couldn't afford to pay John new Smith if they
were gonna pay. Johnny said, they got contracts coming up,
you know, the defensive tackles, Zach Steelers coming up. I mean,
they got they got guys that need to come up.
And let's be real, if they don't win this year,
and I don't think they will, to be honest with you,
I think there's gonna be a reset across the You're
gonna Mike McDaniel is probably going to be out, Chris
(31:02):
Greer will be out. You know. Then you got this
question if they don't play well on offense, and there's questions
about TUA and so I think Miami is in a
situation where they got rid of that the tight end
Johnny Smith, not because they wanted to, but because they
didn't want to pay him, and so sometimes you have
to make those decisions for the future. So yeah, this
deal has probably got the better of the deal. But
(31:24):
Miami also you know, unloaded you know, Jalen Ramsey's money
and some most of it, and unloaded Jonnay Smith paying him.
So I think they're ready for a recent if they
don't win this year.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Pete Prisco last one for me here. I'm curious because
we're hearing Terry mclaurin's deal. Their negotiations aren't going well.
We know the TJ. Watt stuff, Trey Hendrickson, et cetera,
et cetera. Have you heard any juicy rumors about potential
trades or moves maybe being made sometime before training camp
or before the start of the season.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, I mean, Henderson was on the market already and
nobody made a move for him. Been on the market.
Remember they shopped him around and nobody made a move
for him. You know, TJ. I hadn't heard the TJ.
Watt trade stuff that all. Talking to anybody, I'd be
shocked if that happened. Here's the deal, and you guys
know this. I'm not playing. I'm not playing. I'm not playing.
(32:17):
It's July. I'm not playing. I'm not going to play. Well,
what happens. It gets towards camp, I'm not playing. The
money starts, getting the fines a brutal now and you
start getting fine and losing big checks, and next thing
you know, you go, I'm thinking I'm going to play,
and then the season starts, and what happens. I'm there
in week one because I'm not missing a game check
(32:37):
because I only know I have so many earning years
in my body. They will all be there in week one.
Every single one of them complained about their contract.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
You ain't wrong, wrong.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Everybody. Every year it's the same thing, and they all
show up a playing except for you know idiot let
me on bail.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah it work out, Yeah, that's uh yeah, it probably
could give was that like fourteen million dollars, Like fourteen
million of change he's never going to see again.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So yeah, I mean it just you got you only
habit and lamar, you know this, you played. There's only
so many years where you're gonna make that kind of
money in your career. So why would you get some
of it up? Why would you give any of it up?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
It just dumb, I wouldn't. I mean, I understand standing
on the value that you feel you bring to the table,
but I also feel like there's there's the understanding of
how to go about trying to get it done. And
I would be on the field while those negotiations are
taking place, trying to get it done, and I'm gonna
play the best that I can play, keep my value
(33:45):
up so that if they don't want to pay me
that value, then there comes a point in time where
you know, you you have options, you know, versus oh,
well he sat home, you know, and and he didn't
do anything. I want you to see my production now
if the team, because what the team did to me
in Washington, they benched me and and so when we
(34:08):
were having our our situation play out, they basically try
to devalue me. And for what I don't I don't.
I don't get it, like I'm there, like I didn't
hold out, I didn't do anything crazy. They just benched
me and and didn't want to play me in I
guess maybe because they didn't want to get me hurt
or whatever it may have been, so that they could
(34:29):
try to get value, you know, getting rid of me.
And I thought there might have been other agendas. But
if somebody's trying to play that type of game with you,
I can understand you playing hardball. But if you're coming
in and you're going to play and they're they're not
doing anything like outlandish, that that is out of the ordinary.
I think you just got to go ahead and continue
(34:50):
to do your job because at the end of the day,
it's still your job. And the one thing that we
tend to get away from Pete a lot of times
is it's still your job based upon a contract that
you sign that you're still under like and I think
that that sometimes, you know, we get far away from that.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Sure you can now play a contract, but yeah, but
far The.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Other side of that is they'll cutch in two seconds
with your contract still there. So sure, sure, here's here's
my thinking about. Okay, Terry McLaurin is scheduled to make
fIF team five this year in base salary plus his
roster bonus is two eight. There ain't nowhere else in
the world he's going to be making that kind of money.
I can tell you that right now. And so if
(35:34):
you don't play half the season, you're going to give
up seven seven and a half million dollars to eight
million dollars where you're getting eight million dollars back out
in the outside world. Y ain't You're not There's no way.
And so I get it. He looks at the receiver market.
He's average salaries twenty two and you see these guys
(35:55):
getting you know, twenty nine to thirty. So he's sitting
there saying, well, I'm underpaid. Okay, negotiate while you're there
and you'll get the deal. He's going to get a
new deal. I mean, here's the other part of the equation, though,
what kind of deal is he going to get? He's
thirty now, you know, he's thirty years old. And sometimes
you know, that's a crew reality the NFL. When you're
receiver you turn thirty or running back and you turn
(36:17):
twenty eight, they start saying, hey, you're at the back
end of your career. And so I think I get
why he wants to get the new deal, you know,
and he will get a new deal. It's if he
might not get that thirty million dollars, your twenty nine
million dollars a year deal you want. But he's got
fifteen million sitting on the table. He ain't leaving that there.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
I promise you that I hope not get him.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
On x at Prisco CBS. P Prisco, senior NFL columnists
for CBS Sports, CBS Sports HQ analyst. We always appreciate it.
We'll do it again next week.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You got to take care of a guy.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
There.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
He is P Prisco with us here on Fox Sports Radio.
Coming up next, we'll close up shop on this Football
Friday with another edition of Lee's Leftovers here on FSR.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, Fox Sports Radio,
LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here. We are going
to be back on the air, coming up on Monday,
six am Eastern time, three o'clock Pacific, same time, same.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Place, coming on. We're coming on, Yeah, Monday, six am,
all time is Voltron Voltron Monday?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
What you mean?
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
What you mean?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
You can't form the entire Voltron Uh? You know Warrior
without having all of the lions being available to connect and.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Amen, we just show up, bar, we just clock in.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
We come from You know, that would be nice if
people actually recognize that instead of being d bags. But
you know what, Uh, as long as we know it,
I guess that's.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
All that matters. All I care about there you go.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
But about you, Jonas Hell Yeah, and you Lorena, And
I thinks Lee, Lee.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And his bubble guts.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
I can't. I can't care about Lee more than he
cares about himself. So I'm not sure how much I
should say I care about Lee, So but there you go.
I guess I do care about you though, Lee.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Thanks better.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
If you'd like to find out why Lee was fighting
for the pain today, you can check out the podcast.
It'll be posted shortly after we go off the air.
Search two Pros wherever get your podcast. Be sure to
follow and review the pod and rated five stars. Again,
just search two Pros where ever get your podcast. You'll
find today's showing the best of version posted right after
we get off the air.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
These might smell a little funk that sounds incredible, but
they're still good. Time to find out what's lack? It's
Lee's lap, all.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Right, d lap? What do we got?
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (38:50):
And part of the reason I was hurting today was
because I went out to go see Superman yesterday and
was eating poorly eating Nacho's eating hot dogs. Twenty one
million dollars for their three day opening alone, so they're
gonna be likely killing their estimated one hundred and twenty
million dollar weekend.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
It's gonna be a big, big weekend. Go see it.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
It's an awesome movie. Good good Superman. Yeah with the
dog yep, Crypto, he was excellent. I stole the show
absolutely penty different Superman.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
They're gonna make Oh, I mean that one can go
forever bro Superman is that's that's a storyline that can
you can always continue to recreate it.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
When do they start making good ones?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Don't do that? What chrisper reeves is still my favorite Superman?
I guess because it's nostalgic. I would agree Henry Cavill
was good.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
There's been nine live action Superman's.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Oh God, like.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
What else you got?
Speaker 6 (39:50):
If you're looking for a snack on your way there?
It is seven eleven, meaning it's Free Slurpy Day. Go
to your local seven eleven, get yourself a free slurpy,
or go get a good French right because it's National
French for O Day. I'm gonna get me some crickled
cuts from Dell Tako.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
That's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Do you guys prefer? Do you guys prefer slurfees or icis?
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Slurpy is always a winter icy?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Icy? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Top, I mean Arita's water ice is on fire. I
ain't gonna lie. Black Cherry
Hey, thanks for listening to the Two Pros and a
Cup of Joe podcast with LaVar Arrington, Brady Quinn and
myself Jonas Knox. Make sure you catch us live weekdays
six to nine am Eastern Time three to six am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. You can find your local
station for the Two Pros and a Cup of Joe
show over at Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us
(00:22):
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Give this.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, Fox Sports Radio,
LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here. You can hang
out with us on the iHeartRadio app. You can find
us on hundreds of affiliates all across this country and
wherever you are making us a part of your football Friday.
We appreciate you doing so, as we take you all
the way up until the end of this hour nine
am Eastern time, six o'clock Pacific, another edition of Black
(01:01):
and Drack here on a Football Friday.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's the last one. You guys, go, You guys got
what you want yet? Look that's the last one. Guys.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I just love how people blame you and me for
black and drag, Like you're blaming us for black and drag.
A man, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey, I didn't. I didn't choose to look like Dracula, So.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I didn't choose to be black, but I am. In fact,
we didn't choose to be doing black and drag show.
You know, well we did. I mean, we did choose
for it to be.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Guts to God saw me and was like God saw me.
I was like, no, a little more.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Pale, Dang, we could go a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We go a little bit more, you know, make it
look like the guy is gonna wake up out of
a car often next to a room full of candles.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Just a smidge more, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Just do that. So yeah, whatever it looks like Dracula,
Lvar's black, Who cares? I mean, people got to get
over it, man, all right, it's one of the great
show names of all time, Black and drack and radio.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
There's a lot of them though, just so y'all know.
So there you go. You can be happy again. And
all the people that don't listen when he's off, he's
back Monday. So whatever it is, y'all got to say
say it to him when he gets back, Like, I
don't see why y'all took all his time to come
at us. I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I don't even know who him is.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Like, yes you do.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I have no idea. Stop that doing the show here
on a football Friday.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
It is a football Friday.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
What would you say if you had to think off
the top of your head, because I was thinking about this,
like worst sporting event you've ever attended that you look
back on and go, man, I actually, and I don't
know when, like if you've ever paid like a high
dollar for tickets or anything like that, or paid for
a sporting event and then you look back and you go, man,
(03:04):
I really did that for that game. Like, I don't know.
If anything stands out to you, I'll tell you mine.
I went to a Jesus, this is so bad. First
time I ever took my wife now wife then girlfriend
to Chicago. I was like, yeah, we'll go around, we'll
cruise around. It was August and so we went to
(03:24):
a Bears Dolphins preseason game. It was awful. I think
I think the starters played three plays and we just
ended up hanging out and walking around the stadium like
we just walked around Soldier Field or whatever. We might
have left it halftime, but I was like, all right,
you know, we paid like thirty five forty bucks for tickets.
They weren't great seats. We got to see him, and
(03:46):
then we bailed and went and got dinner and drinks
and then you just called it a day. But I
look back at that and I go, I actually paid
money for a preseason game. That's embarrassing, in a preseason
game that wasn't interesting at all because starters didn't even
really partic dissipate on any level. And I say all that,
and I don't know if you have one off the
top of your head.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
No, seke, you keep going, keep going. It's not even
off the top because I've never had a sporting event
that I didn't really the only time that I found
myself painfully, painfully, painfully bored, I didn't pay for it.
I was a guest and I was there, but it
was just like, God, leaders, this s is boring. Was tennis.
(04:32):
I've been to a tennis match before one or two,
and that s was boring, like paint dry boring, Like
I don't know, it's boring. Where was the baseball was
a little boring too, man, But I liked I liked
at least the ambiance of like the energy of baseball games.
(04:54):
Like like at tennis matches, people are freaking snobs man,
like they're it's not it's like you have to walk
around like almost like I've been to a golf golf
even golf people are less snooty than tennis people. You know,
it's just and it makes it boring because you feel
(05:16):
like you got to like be on guard, like you
have to maintain this level of how you conduct yourself,
like meaning like you know, drink your water and sit
there and don't make any noise. And it's just it was.
It was boring. Yeah, painfully born, way too snobby.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And where was the tennis match at? Was this it
like Wimbledon?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Or I was at Indian wells Man down the road. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, I say all that because I can't even believe
that these numbers are real, but apparently they're real. So
for Cooper Flagg's debut in the Summer League against Ronnie James,
all right, that took place at the Thomas and Max Center,
What would you say the ticket prices were that were
(06:08):
going for when it came to to try and get
into the game, Like, what would you say, you know,
some of the ticket prices would be for a summer
league game involving the Mavericks and the Lakers. What would
you say, like A, I mean, knowing the.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Build up behind Cooper Flag, I'd say, are you saying
on high or on average?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I mean, what court side seat.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
A courtside seat? I would say maybe five thousand.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Really twenty five hundred dollars you could sit courtside for
Cooper Flag's debut at the Thomas and Mack Center. But
they were selling tickets in the lower bowl for six
hundred and fifty dollars.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Thats what again, if you would have said what was
the lower I would I think I would have went
four or five hundred. But you're saying courtside for his
first game. I mean because in theory, this could be
a a historical moment for you know, for the NBA,
it could be a historical moment for Cooper Flays. His
first game. Man, if he's as good as everybody thinks
(07:11):
he is, I mean, he had a decent showing, well,
he had ten points, he had a decent outing and
you got to keep in mind for what it's worth.
You know, Bronnie James is is a name. He's a name,
and that can sell tickets. That can move that weight,
you know, going move that weight, Gone move a weight.
(07:32):
I think that you know, that was a that's a
nice little that's a nice little deal. You know, get
get a little matchup between Bronnie and and Flag.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Some fans begin lining up at five forty five in
the morning. The game didn't start until eight Eastern time,
and fans were lining up at five forty five local
time because they just wanted to get the best view.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Of It started eight Eastern times, and then people started
lining up in Vegas at five forty five. Yeah, you
do know that. That's that's isn't is in Vegas three
hours behind.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Five forty five in the morning for an eight PM
Eastern time case?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Okay, right, eight, So a five PM game in Vegas.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And they're lining up at five forty five for the
game in the morning.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, that's crazy. But that's that's like student section action. Now,
you know student section people, they camp out, that's what
they do. People. That's some people that's like, that's like
attendance that's that's sports attendance etiquette. Some people depending on
why they they do it, Like for student seats, it's
(08:46):
it's like you have a seat and it's a it's
a area where the student section sits. It's first come,
first served. So if you have your tickets, you have
your tickets, but you're I believe the way, you're not assigned.
So it's a when they opened the gate, it's a
mad dash to get into the front. He did. It's
(09:09):
so and the longer year you wait or the further
back you are, the higher up you are in the seating.
So maybe that's how they were approaching it.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I mean, I'll say this, it's great for the league
if there's this much buzz surrounding a guy like Cooper
Fly and listen, Bronnie James being there, I think is
also an added benefit because say whatever you want about
Bronnie James, and people can mock Bronnie James. But man,
I can remember looking at numbers from our show and
stuff that was online, YouTube clicks, things like that, and
(09:42):
just to give people a little behind the scenes, some
of those clips were the most listened to clips that
we did. We're on Bronnie James. For whatever reason, that
guy generates a buzz. And there was a buzz last
night in Las Vegas for Cooper Flagg's debut, and that's
great for the NBA. It was Look, when Zion came in.
(10:02):
People forget this because that same summer that was when
Paul George and Kawhi Leonard got traded ended up with
the Clippers. But the night before there was an earthquake
in Vegas. Zion was in the Summer League. There was
a whole buzz about him and a whole buzz about
what this could look like. Based on him getting to
(10:24):
the NBA.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
They were trying to say he was going to be
the next Jordan. Bruh. There was a point in time
where they are life, look at the numbers this guy,
Zion Williams, and he has better numbers than Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean, I'll say this, they tried to make you
Mike when he was uh. And by the way, you
talk about somebody who's actually had a pretty decent NBA career,
but you know, nobody. If people just want to look
at it and be like, ah no, he's a bust,
he's at the player. Everybody thought he was well well
he's not. He's not, but it does mean where.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Is he By the way, is he going to play
this year? Where where has he been? Have we seen him?
When's the last time we've seen him.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
He's not a bad player, but he's also uh, you know,
he's he's not the number one pick that everybody thought
he was going to be, But he's not a bad player.
Like he's actually played pretty good.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
When he plays, he plays well.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
But like I see the numbers, I see the lines
forming outside for a summer league in Vegas, and it's
like one hundred and ten degrees in Vegas, and people
are waiting around to watch Cooper Flag take on Brownie James,
And I go, all right, well that's good news. I mean,
it's good news for the NBA. At least you've got
another recognizable star, another star that delivered at a prominent
(11:38):
university in Duke and made a deep enough run in
in college basketball in the NCAA Tournament to where now
the NBA's got something. At least they've got something there,
because I would have if you would have told me, hey,
guess the price of tickets, Guess what the buzz is
going to be like for Cooper Flagg's debut in the
Summer League. I'd be oh, yea, there's probably gonna be
(12:00):
a little bit of buzz DDE six hundred and fifty
dollars to watch a Summer League game.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Sometimes the first time is the last time. You know.
Sometimes you're not as valuable moving forward as you were
for the first time. You know, and that that unknown
he's he's coming in with so much fan fear and
so much coverage and so much hype that you know,
you may not ever get to feel it or experience
(12:27):
it from this level of hype. The more he plays,
you know, you just don't know. I mean he didn't
have the best of games. I mean, he shot poorly
from the field, and he you know, he he didn't.
I mean, he had a he had a couple of
nice moments. I mean, he he showed some swag, you know,
he going down the sideline and you know, stare down
(12:48):
people when he made a play, like he's got that
that dog mentality. And I like it. But I think
if you're looking at it from the standpoint of excitement,
I think he does generate excitement Summer League. I mean,
this is just that time of the year. Where if
you can get an opportunity to see a young star
(13:10):
for the first time before everybody gets a hold of it.
I don't you know, if you got that type of
time on your hands and you don't have a problem
sitting somewhere from five forty four five forty five am
in the morning, then I guess, I guess that's what
you do. But sometimes you know the most entertained, Like
you're talking about Zion, I bet you Zion probably had
(13:33):
some of his more memorable moments in the summer league
that he played in coming out of college because he
was probably still in college shape.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I mean, you notice the stars of like the stars
that have come out in the draft into the NBA,
whether it's Zion, Wembe, Cooper Flag, what do they all
have in common? We knew about them before they got there.
And that's what college football in the NFL has over
(14:03):
the NBA and college basketball because in college football, you build,
for lack of a better term, a brand, a reputation.
You're recognizable. And it's why the NFL Draft is as
big of a deal as it is because good point,
we know who these guys are. We've watched them at
a high level for years now. We know their stories,
(14:24):
we know the games they played well in, we know
their accomplishments. We know all that, and then they're presented
to an NFL audience who knows them because they probably
also watch them on Saturdays, the day before their favorite
team on a Sunday. So you know who all these
guys are. And if you're trying to fix the lack
of star power or wondering how the NFL or how
(14:45):
the NBA can get things turned around, you got to
figure out a way to either work somehow someway with
college basketball and the developmental aspect of things to where
people know who the hell these guys are. Because there's
a lot of people who are watching the NBA draft
going I have no idea who that guy is. He
plays in Europe, suite, never heard him before. Cooper Flag,
(15:07):
I know him. He played at Duke Zion. I know him,
he played at Duke Wemby, heard stories about him, saw highlights.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I know that guy is legends.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah like and then you start watching him, you go, oh, yeah,
he is that good. I just think this is this
is exhibit a of how you sort of bridge the
gap from college to pros You've got to do a
better job of promoting these guys and building them up
through the process. If you want people to stand in
(15:36):
line at five point forty five in the morning for
a game that doesn't start for twelve hours.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It's an interesting take, you know. I mean, I think
about even guys that didn't go to college. Lebron didn't
go to college. We knew all about him, all about it,
I mean, the heir apparent and lived up to it.
Kevin Garnett, you know that's we knew all about you
(16:01):
know before, like the the stories of his pro workouts
are legendary, Like they talk about how he did his
his last rep just as well as he did his
first rep, in the amount of energy and fire he
had and him doing what he was doing. I mean,
but to your point, I think a more relevant, a
(16:26):
more relevant you know, I guess addition to to what
you've stated is that when we were when we were
growing up, you know, you you knew who UNLV had
as the running rebels. You you knew, you even knew
the coaches. You know, you knew that tark was, you know,
going to chew on his on his towel, like there
(16:48):
was like you know, personality connected to these these people.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Like when I say the name Thomas and MaxEnt or
what do you think of the nineteen nineties running rebels,
Like that's.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I just I hear. If I hear running rebels, I
immediately think of Larry Johnson, Stacy Agen, Kevin Hunt, and
Greg Anthony Ackles, Moses Scurry. I still know their their lineup.
And I'm not even that I was a basketball guy.
I played basketball first, but even to kind of commit
(17:24):
those things to memory, like I know who the fat
five are you say, the University of Michigan basketball. I
can even go back to telling you about Ramel Robinson
and Glenn Rice. You know, and we knew these guys
coming in those tar Hill teams for a long time,
with Rashid and George Lynch and and Phelps and and
(17:46):
all the different guys that came through. You know, Duke Carolina,
you know that even you Mass had a moment in time,
even Temple had a moment in time where you were
like yep, Aaron mc he and Eddie Jones like let's
go like these were guys that you were like, man,
you were excited to see them transition.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Saint Joseph's with Jamiir Nelson and Delandre. We absolutely know
that you knew it.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Were you know it just to me, I don't. I'm
not sure why that is that there's been a disconnect
in building the brands of basketball players to the to
the masses, because you know, a lot of guys were
leaving early back then too. Though it's not like it's
(18:35):
it's like the engagement of it all has changed. There
were guys that chose to stay, Like the Fab Five,
they chose to stay, you know, the running Rebels, they
chose to stay. Like you know, the teams in Duke,
you know with Latner and and the Hills and all
those they chose to stay. You know, Hurley and all
(18:56):
those guys. You got an opportunity to get to know.
The teams that really really resonate and stick are the
teams that had guys that stayed together for more than
one year. I will say that, And maybe that is
the fundamental difference as to why, you know, we don't
really know the people that are coming out of college
(19:20):
and going into the pros. Maybe maybe that plays a
part in it, because you don't build that brand of
not only the individual, but the brand of the team
and what that team represents. It's like every team we remember,
it's connected to something pretty specific. Yeah, and you don't,
you don't really have that anymore. Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Kind of a shame. It is Two Pros and a
Cup of Joe here on Fox Sports Radio, and it's
Jonas Knox here and at the Home Depot. It is
about time for pros to source the whole job with
one partner. Ask about all we can do for you
at the pro Desk, the Home Depot Pro. It's about time,
all right. It's coming up next here on the show.
On this for Ball Friday, we are going to talk
some football with our resident red ass, the one and
(20:04):
only Pete Prisco in a rare Friday appearance is yours
here on FSR.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe Fox Sports Radio,
LaVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with the air coming up in
about twenty minutes from now, we will close up shop
with another edition of Lee's Leftovers that will be yours
here on FSR. Right now, though, it is time for
a rare Friday appearance from the one and only Smooth
Operator himself. Pete Prisco, senior NFL columnist for CBS Sports,
(20:46):
CBS Sports HQ Analysts. You can get them on X
if you want some of that smoke at Prisco, CBS. Pete,
good morning. How we feel in here on a Friday?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
What's up? Guys?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
How are you hey? How you doing? Pete?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
We're just, you know, we're trying. We're trying to figure
out why your guy Najia Harris is playing with fireworks
on fourth July, trying to figure out you.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
No, I don't get it, man, I really don't. Just
just stay away from it. Why would you subject yourself
to something like that, especially after what happened to Jason
Pierre Paul back in the day. I mean, I don't.
I just believe me. I've been around guys that I've
seen them try and you know, play with fireworks, and
I don't go anywhere the firecrackers even or fireworks. I
(21:26):
don't go anywhere near that stuff. I never have. But
just just why put yourself at any sort of risk
at all to lose a finger or hand or anything else.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I don't get it either, for some strange reason.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Then again, up, I'm not a big fireworks guy either.
I'll be honest with you, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
What I mean, why and why should you be? And
why and why would you be? You know? Maybe watch them?
I like watching them, and even that's even a little overrated,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, LeVar. I think when
you watch them, all everybody does go and then it's
done right the grand finale, though there's always a.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Grand finale, always always Speaking of grand finales, Pete, we
were having the discussion of if you were to say,
who are going to be the top three teams out
of each each conference? Who would they what? What teams
would they be? I'm curious, who do you see as
(22:34):
the top three teams and the NFC, and who you
see as the top three teams and the a f C,
and and just give a quick reason maybe why.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Not in any order? Not in any order?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
But well I may I forced Jonas to put them
in order, But if you don't want to put them
in order, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Number one right now is Philadelphia. I think in the NFC,
I think they're loaded. They got everybody back. But you know,
I know it's hard to repeat, and everybod's gonna gunning
for you. That's why why I won't pick them the repeat.
But right now there's the number one team, Green Bay,
who I think last year was impacted greatly by the
health of their quarterback, the health of their wide receivers
(23:12):
at times. I think green Bay is going to be
really good. I think defensively they're going to be even
better than what they've been, even though there's some people
that question their quarterback position. I think they're going to
be much better. And then number three, i'd probably go with.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Probably this is going to surprise some people. I think
Camp is the real deal. Oh wow, Yeah, I really do.
And I think their roster is loaded across the board.
And not only that, there's a lot of good mix
of young and old. And when you have a good
mix of young and old, that's usually a good combination
(23:49):
because you have the veterans that can elevate those younger.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Guys, and you have the younger guys that can kind
of bring the juice out in the older guys, and
I think that team is loaded now missing worse for
how over long? That will be a big hit to
them early in the season. But I do think that
team is talented across the board.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
I'm sorry, all right, I'll give you the AFC AFC.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Buffalo is number one in my book right now. I
think they're the best team. Number two would be Kansas
City and number three would be Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
M What is the hesitation to not have Baltimore one? Like,
if you had to say, like, what would be your
the one thing that you would look at Baltimore and
go I just can't pay because they two see like
a team that's loaded. So what would be the hesitation
with Baltimore to and put them higher?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
What's kind of been what the same hesitation you've had
with Buffalo over the years is what do you what's
the quarterback do in the post? And then not that
the quarterback, but the team and their and their case
the quarterback doing the post, team, I.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Says, quarterback for both of them, though you're.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right, well, the quarterback, the quarterback in Buffalo has actually
been pretty done good in the postseason.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
If you go back and look at his Berzi he's
been good in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The team has wilted at times in the postseason, but
you go to you know, the Ravens and Lamar Jackson
hasn't been the same quarterback in the postseason. So he's
got to go out there and prove that he can
do that. And I think that's the one hesitation. Don't
get me wrong, he's a magnificent player. But you know, guys,
Peyton Manning had that hanging over his head for a
long time. Until you win, and win at all, it's
going to be sitting there and it's gonna be a
(25:23):
question about you. So I think those are the things
that kind of hold me from saying that's the number
one team. I think Buffalo's loaded. I think what they've
done in the offseason has been outstanding. They revamped that defense,
you know, adding some good young guys to that defense.
Once they get uh, you know, Boza going and you know, yeah,
you don't need him now, you need him in December
and January. I think that's an important pickup for them
(25:45):
as well.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Pete. When you look at Jared Goff's comments when he
was talking on the most recent episode of Quarterback from Netflix,
and you just talking about how he wishes the Rams
would have handled the trade with a little more maturity,
et cetera, et cetera. I look at it and I go, yeah,
in real time, I can understand him saying that, but
(26:09):
it feels like that's a move that worked out better
for everybody. Jared Goff has been better in Detroit than
he was with the Rams. He probably was a little
bit upset and hurt by the trade, but I think
at the end of it all, he was never going
to be loved and never going to maybe reach that
level of success with La and in Detroit they hit
(26:29):
lightning in the bottle and everybody came out a winner
on both sides.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, because the Rams won the Super Bowl with Stafford,
so it worked for them. The Lions haven't won the
Super Bowl yet with GoF, but they've been, you know,
one of the better teams in the league and he's
put up amazing numbers. So yeah, from that standpoint, it
has worked out. But you could almost. But again, these
guys got to learn the NFL is a cruel business.
I mean, there's no you know, loyalty. I don't care
(26:56):
what anybody says, Oh, you're a part of my team.
No you're not. You're part of my team, so they
don't need you anymore. Then you're not part of the team.
So to be hurt by that, you've got to expect
that as a player in the NFL. Now, if you
have a real close relationship with your head coach Sean
McVay and he doesn't tell you or handle it and say, hey, look, Jared,
we got something coming down the down the pike here,
(27:18):
you're gonna have to We're gonna make a deal for you.
I just wanted to give you a heads up. It's
not done yet, but we're going to make a deal
for you and call you in and tell you exactly
why you're doing it. Then I think that could be
a problem between you and that coach, but not necessarily
the organization. Come on, the organizations aren't loyal to anybody.
You know what they're loyal to. You know what we
all know d're loyal to. You're damn right, And you
(27:41):
know what, bottom line, trying to win a trophy. That's it.
That's all they're loyal to. And if you can't help
them win a trophy, they're going to get you out
the door. And if you're too much money they're going
to get you out the door. That's basically the reality
of the NFL.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Well, let's let's continue on that. I think that's a
great point. I don't find myself saying that about your
points off and uh yeah, but that one was a
good one. Let me ask you. I have a joking.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know what, LaVar LeVar. You you you read the
book about football that I write every week.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So you know what, just so I can make sure
I'm on the same page if I decide to jump
off the rails like you do most often. But can
we talk about this right here, the trade that took
place between the Miami Dolphins and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Who
do you think got the better end of that deal?
(28:31):
Or is it kind of a you know, an offsetting
type of of of deal. What? What like? What did
you think when you saw that trade take place?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, Miami had they painted themselves in a corner with jail.
Ramsey had to get rid of them, you know, once
you put that out there, you have to get rid
of them. And and so Pittsburgh looks like a team
that's all in for the year, So it made sense
to go get a guy like that. Micka Fitzpatrick. Okay,
for all the people that love on MIKEO Fitzpatrick, and
there are plenty of them. And by the way, both
(29:03):
these guys have problems. You know, Jalen Ramsey's been unwanted
in several spots he's been at he's worn out as
welcome and Miami being one of them. You know, the
Rams didn't know. Everybody said, oh, the Rams are going
to welcome him back and try and get to win,
go get a win the Super Bowl with him again.
Did they get him back? Oh, Jacksonville, they wanted Jacksonville.
They wanted him out. And so he's been an issue
at every place he's been. Now, make I Fitzpatrick, remember
(29:26):
he wanted out of Miami. He quit on the team
a couple of years ago before they traded him to Pittsburgh.
And then when they traded into Pittsburgh, you hear stuff
coming out of Pittsburgh that he was the guy freelancing
all over the place and was a big problem with
the defense last year. So everyone those two guys have
major issues in terms of off the field. I don't
think Fitzpatrick's played as well as everybody expected, and Ramsey
(29:48):
has not been very good either. The last couple of
years it's just been okay. So what do the dealers do.
They think they got themselves a corner or a guy
that can move around and play some safety. They can
use them in different spots, and you know that's become
the trend. Now. A guy could do so many different things,
and truth be known, his best year was probably when
he was with the Rams, playing that star position where
he was up near to the line of scrimmage and
(30:08):
could do a lot of different things. So it might
work for the Steelers. They had to eat some money,
Miami paying themselves in a corner. And I never really,
never really understood why Flat app came out and said
you were getting rid of them before you actually had
a trade value or trade market for him.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
John new Smith goes in with the trade though, is
that if you do apples and apples with those two
does does a top four and receiving yards tight end?
Does that put it over the top that that you
would say the Steelers won in that that draft exchange, Miami,
that trade exchange.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Miami needs a reset. Let's be real, Miami. I mean
they couldn't afford to pay John new Smith if they
were gonna pay. Johnny said, they got contracts coming up,
you know, the defensive tackles, Zach Steelers coming up. I mean,
they got they got guys that need to come up.
And let's be real, if they don't win this year,
and I don't think they will, to be honest with you,
I think there's gonna be a reset across the You're
gonna Mike McDaniel is probably going to be out, Chris
(31:02):
Greer will be out. You know. Then you got this
question if they don't play well on offense, and there's questions
about TUA and so I think Miami is in a
situation where they got rid of that the tight end
Johnny Smith, not because they wanted to, but because they
didn't want to pay him, and so sometimes you have
to make those decisions for the future. So yeah, this
deal has probably got the better of the deal. But
(31:24):
Miami also you know, unloaded you know, Jalen Ramsey's money
and some most of it, and unloaded Jonnay Smith paying him.
So I think they're ready for a recent if they
don't win this year.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Pete Prisco last one for me here. I'm curious because
we're hearing Terry mclaurin's deal. Their negotiations aren't going well.
We know the TJ. Watt stuff, Trey Hendrickson, et cetera,
et cetera. Have you heard any juicy rumors about potential
trades or moves maybe being made sometime before training camp
or before the start of the season.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, I mean, Henderson was on the market already and
nobody made a move for him. Been on the market.
Remember they shopped him around and nobody made a move
for him. You know, TJ. I hadn't heard the TJ.
Watt trade stuff that all. Talking to anybody, I'd be
shocked if that happened. Here's the deal, and you guys
know this. I'm not playing. I'm not playing. I'm not playing.
(32:17):
It's July. I'm not playing. I'm not going to play. Well,
what happens. It gets towards camp, I'm not playing. The
money starts, getting the fines a brutal now and you
start getting fine and losing big checks, and next thing
you know, you go, I'm thinking I'm going to play,
and then the season starts, and what happens. I'm there
in week one because I'm not missing a game check
(32:37):
because I only know I have so many earning years
in my body. They will all be there in week one.
Every single one of them complained about their contract.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
You ain't wrong, wrong.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Everybody. Every year it's the same thing, and they all
show up a playing except for you know idiot let
me on bail.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah it work out, Yeah, that's uh yeah, it probably
could give was that like fourteen million dollars, Like fourteen
million of change he's never going to see again.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So yeah, I mean it just you got you only
habit and lamar, you know this, you played. There's only
so many years where you're gonna make that kind of
money in your career. So why would you get some
of it up? Why would you give any of it up?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
It just dumb, I wouldn't. I mean, I understand standing
on the value that you feel you bring to the table,
but I also feel like there's there's the understanding of
how to go about trying to get it done. And
I would be on the field while those negotiations are
taking place, trying to get it done, and I'm gonna
play the best that I can play, keep my value
(33:45):
up so that if they don't want to pay me
that value, then there comes a point in time where
you know, you you have options, you know, versus oh,
well he sat home, you know, and and he didn't
do anything. I want you to see my production now
if the team, because what the team did to me
in Washington, they benched me and and so when we
(34:08):
were having our our situation play out, they basically try
to devalue me. And for what I don't I don't.
I don't get it, like I'm there, like I didn't
hold out, I didn't do anything crazy. They just benched
me and and didn't want to play me in I
guess maybe because they didn't want to get me hurt
or whatever it may have been, so that they could
(34:29):
try to get value, you know, getting rid of me.
And I thought there might have been other agendas. But
if somebody's trying to play that type of game with you,
I can understand you playing hardball. But if you're coming
in and you're going to play and they're they're not
doing anything like outlandish, that that is out of the ordinary.
I think you just got to go ahead and continue
(34:50):
to do your job because at the end of the day,
it's still your job. And the one thing that we
tend to get away from Pete a lot of times
is it's still your job based upon a contract that
you sign that you're still under like and I think
that that sometimes, you know, we get far away from that.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Sure you can now play a contract, but yeah, but
far The.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Other side of that is they'll cutch in two seconds
with your contract still there. So sure, sure, here's here's
my thinking about. Okay, Terry McLaurin is scheduled to make
fIF team five this year in base salary plus his
roster bonus is two eight. There ain't nowhere else in
the world he's going to be making that kind of money.
I can tell you that right now. And so if
(35:34):
you don't play half the season, you're going to give
up seven seven and a half million dollars to eight
million dollars where you're getting eight million dollars back out
in the outside world. Y ain't You're not There's no way.
And so I get it. He looks at the receiver market.
He's average salaries twenty two and you see these guys
(35:55):
getting you know, twenty nine to thirty. So he's sitting
there saying, well, I'm underpaid. Okay, negotiate while you're there
and you'll get the deal. He's going to get a
new deal. I mean, here's the other part of the equation, though,
what kind of deal is he going to get? He's
thirty now, you know, he's thirty years old. And sometimes
you know, that's a crew reality the NFL. When you're
receiver you turn thirty or running back and you turn
(36:17):
twenty eight, they start saying, hey, you're at the back
end of your career. And so I think I get
why he wants to get the new deal, you know,
and he will get a new deal. It's if he
might not get that thirty million dollars, your twenty nine
million dollars a year deal you want. But he's got
fifteen million sitting on the table. He ain't leaving that there.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
I promise you that I hope not get him.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
On x at Prisco CBS. P Prisco, senior NFL columnists
for CBS Sports, CBS Sports HQ analyst. We always appreciate it.
We'll do it again next week.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You got to take care of a guy.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
There.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
He is P Prisco with us here on Fox Sports Radio.
Coming up next, we'll close up shop on this Football
Friday with another edition of Lee's Leftovers here on FSR.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, Fox Sports Radio,
LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here. We are going
to be back on the air, coming up on Monday,
six am Eastern time, three o'clock Pacific, same time, same.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Place, coming on. We're coming on, Yeah, Monday, six am,
all time is Voltron Voltron Monday?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
What you mean?
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
What you mean?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
You can't form the entire Voltron Uh? You know Warrior
without having all of the lions being available to connect and.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Amen, we just show up, bar, we just clock in.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
We come from You know, that would be nice if
people actually recognize that instead of being d bags. But
you know what, Uh, as long as we know it,
I guess that's.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
All that matters. All I care about there you go.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
But about you, Jonas Hell Yeah, and you Lorena, And
I thinks Lee, Lee.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And his bubble guts.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
I can't. I can't care about Lee more than he
cares about himself. So I'm not sure how much I
should say I care about Lee, So but there you go.
I guess I do care about you though, Lee.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Thanks better.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
If you'd like to find out why Lee was fighting
for the pain today, you can check out the podcast.
It'll be posted shortly after we go off the air.
Search two Pros wherever get your podcast. Be sure to
follow and review the pod and rated five stars. Again,
just search two Pros where ever get your podcast. You'll
find today's showing the best of version posted right after
we get off the air.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
These might smell a little funk that sounds incredible, but
they're still good. Time to find out what's lack? It's
Lee's lap, all.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Right, d lap? What do we got?
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (38:50):
And part of the reason I was hurting today was
because I went out to go see Superman yesterday and
was eating poorly eating Nacho's eating hot dogs. Twenty one
million dollars for their three day opening alone, so they're
gonna be likely killing their estimated one hundred and twenty
million dollar weekend.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
It's gonna be a big, big weekend. Go see it.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
It's an awesome movie. Good good Superman. Yeah with the
dog yep, Crypto, he was excellent. I stole the show
absolutely penty different Superman.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
They're gonna make Oh, I mean that one can go
forever bro Superman is that's that's a storyline that can
you can always continue to recreate it.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
When do they start making good ones?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Don't do that? What chrisper reeves is still my favorite Superman?
I guess because it's nostalgic. I would agree Henry Cavill
was good.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
There's been nine live action Superman's.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Oh God, like.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
What else you got?
Speaker 6 (39:50):
If you're looking for a snack on your way there?
It is seven eleven, meaning it's Free Slurpy Day. Go
to your local seven eleven, get yourself a free slurpy,
or go get a good French right because it's National
French for O Day. I'm gonna get me some crickled
cuts from Dell Tako.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
That's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Do you guys prefer? Do you guys prefer slurfees or icis?
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Slurpy is always a winter icy?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Icy? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Top, I mean Arita's water ice is on fire. I
ain't gonna lie. Black Cherry
Hosts And Creators
Brady Quinn
LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
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