No Flags on the Field!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome in out Kick listeners. Appreciade all of you dive
into the podcast. Here. We've got a loaded guest segments
and a great discussion for you. I think as we
continue to break down the NFL Divisional Round playoff games.
Start with Harry Gagnon an hour one, an hour too,
how about my guy, Jeff Schwartz, and then the voice
of the Titans, Mike Keith. That's OutKick six to nine
am Eastern wide, but you get it now on Fox

(00:21):
Sports Radio. OutKick the Coverage with Clay Travis live every
weekday morning from six to nine a m. Eastern three
to six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for OutKick the Coverage at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every morning on the
I Heart Radio app by searching fs are you're listening

(00:45):
to Fox Sports Radio. I hope all of you are
having a fantastic Wednesday wherever you may be across this
great country or across this great land. We have got
uh much to discuss as we moved throughout the show today,
but I believe at the top of the list not

(01:06):
a surprise, the four Divisional Round playoff games as they
move closer and closer to arriving. I'm looking at them
more and more and wondering if we're underrating the chances
of the Green Bay pat the Green Bay Packers and
the Seattle Seahawks in their game, which looks to be

(01:29):
the most competitive of all the games that are going
on this weekend. Um, we talked about this a lot, right.
I mean the fact that of the eight teams that
are in the playoffs right now, remaining seven of them
were not in the playoffs at this time last year.
And in fact, if you look at the quarterbacks in

(01:52):
this uh this year's playoffs, whether it is Kirk Cousins
with the Vikings, whether it's Jimmy Garoppolo with San Francisco
forty nine, or whether it's Ryan Tannehill or or Lamar
Jackson and the Titans and the Ravens game, or Deshaun
Watson who just won his first ever playoff game, and
Patrick Mahomes, who, while he's been impressive, has only won

(02:16):
one playoff game so far in his career. Russell Wilson
and Aaron Rodgers are both Super Bowl winning quarterbacks who
are looking to get that second Super Bowl to forever
imprint themselves on the DNA of the league, and I
feel like Aaron Rodgers, in particular this year, is completely

(02:40):
under the radar. And I'm not sure whether that's wrong
because the Packers haven't been that impressive. Their schedule when
you look at their results, uh, particularly against teams that
were good enough to make the playoffs, has not been
very good. But most years when Aaron Rodgers is in
the postseason, he is completely drowning in media coverage and

(03:06):
hype and expectation. This year, the Packers went thirteen and three,
and I feel like Aaron Rodgers has been under the
radar all year, and as a result, I keep looking
at this Packers Seahawks game and feeling like, whoever wins
this game is going to find their way into the

(03:28):
super Bowl. Now, whether it's the Packers or the Seahawks
may have to go on the road against the forty Niners,
although I like the Vikings quite a bit as a
seven point underdog going up against the forty Niners because
I think Kirk Cousin is gonna be playing with house money,
so I think there's also a decent possibility that whoever

(03:49):
wins this Green Bay Seattle game is going to be
hosting the NFC Championship game because I think there's a
decent chance of the Vikings go on the road and
be the forty Niners, even though the forty Niners are
the favorite to win the NFC right now. But I
feel like we aren't spending that much time on Russell

(04:09):
Wilson because the Seahawks down the stretch run of the
season didn't perform that great, and we're not spending hardly
any time on Aaron Rodgers because while the Packers are winning,
they haven't been winning in really a spectacular or fashion.
They've been sort of choking people out right, Like it

(04:29):
hasn't been a really solidly impressive performance by the Packers
down the stretch run of the season, even though they
finished thirteen and three and got to buy. And I'm
guilty of this as well, because I expected for the
Saints to beat the Vikings and then for the Saints
to go up to Lambeau and handle the Packers without

(04:50):
that much difficulty, and so I didn't really spend that
much time thinking about the Packers making a run here.
And the same thing kind of of the Seahawks, because
with the injuries they have at running back and beast
mode and everything else. This offense has felt like at
some point there's just gonna be too much on Russell

(05:12):
Wilson's shoulders and he's not gonna be able to carry
the team like he's been doing all season long, or
you expect for some of the luck to finally run out,
given how many close games the Seahawks have won, how
many times Russell Wilson has made a late play. But
if you look at these guys histories and the fact

(05:32):
that they've both won Super Bowls, and how unproven just
about everybody else is in this, uh, this playoff group.
You got Lamar Jackson who's never won a playoff game.
You got Deshaun Watson, who just narrowly won his first
ever playoff game. You got Patrick Mahomes who's only won
one playoff game I believe it is in his career.

(05:54):
Ryan Tannehill, who just won his first ever playoff game
and didn't play very well on the road against the Patriots.
Jimmy g who is never in his career started a
playoff game before. And Kirk Cousins, who, after being maybe
the most criticized player in the entirety of the NFL,
finally won a playoff game. I mean, we're talking about

(06:16):
a substantial difference between the experience factor for Aaron Rodgers
and for Russell Wilson compared to everybody else. And it's
why I keep coming back to this game and saying,
you know what, I kind of like whoever wins this
game to make a run to the super Bowl. And frankly,

(06:37):
I like the Seahawks as a four point underdog to cover.
I'm not sure I like them to win, but I
think this game is gonna be super close down the stretch.
It's gonna be your afternoon slash evening game on Sunday,
and I think of the four games that are going on,
it's probably the one we should be giving the most
attention to that we're probably ignoring to a large degree

(07:00):
because of perceived flaws that exist between the Packers and
the Seahawks. I want to bring in the crew and
see if anybody else agrees with me that usually if
you have two Super Bowl winning quarterbacks going head to
head in the postseason, this game is just drowning in hype.
Do you agree with me, Danny G that this game

(07:22):
feels like it's under the radar despite the fact that
Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers are by far the two
most accomplished quarterbacks remaining in the postseason. Yeah, if you
go back to our top five bottom fives all throughout
the year, that's right. A lot of people, including you,
weren't buying into the Packers at all for a majority
of the season. The Packers were kind of under the radar.

(07:45):
So I think that has a lot to do with
what you're talking about now. This um playoff style of
football we always hear about has a lot to do
with the run game, as we saw last weekend with
Derrick Henry and Dalvin Cook. So I think the difference
in this game is going to be the other Aaron
Aaron Jones. Yeah. I don't know if a lot of
people know this, but he scored nineteen total touchdowns. I

(08:05):
feel like he's under the radar two I mean Packer team. Uh,
that's a great point about the success that he had.
I feel like this entire Packer team, and I bet
there's a lot of Packer fans listening to us right
now kind of nodding, because it's not as if the
path if you ranked teams for just typical attention, that
they get. The Patriots are up there, Cowboys are up there,

(08:29):
Steelers and the Packers. Probably, if you were ranking the
four teams in the NFL that typically get the most
hype every year, I would say, in no particular order,
that's the four, right, the Steelers, the Packers, the Patriots,
and Uh. And you really break down those teams and
usually the Cowboys obviously, usually those four teams are getting

(08:51):
the most attention out there. Well, the Packers have a bye,
They've got a Super Bowl winning champ still in Aaron Rodgers.
They went thirteen and three, as you just mentioned, they've
got a per ounced strong running game as well. And
I'm guilty of this also, I just haven't bought into
them all year, and boom, here they are Aaron Rodgers
Russell Wilson going head to head with six relatively unaccomplished

(09:14):
so far uh in the postseason quarterbacks remaining otherwise, and
I feel like we're overlooking these guys, dub Are you
buying into this that that that that somehow the Packers
and the Seahawks are under the radar in some sense
as we come down the stretch rund of the divisional playoffs. Well,
I agree with everything you just said, and especially with
what Danny g just said about you know, people overlooking

(09:35):
the Packers, and there's been people that have overlooking have
overlooked the Seahawks all season, including myself, because I think
you know, when the Seahawks all year, well, when you
look at their points difference on the year, the Seahawks
are plus seven through the whole season that the Packers,
and it is wild for them to have such a
good record and for them to be where they are
right now. And the Packers aren't great their plus sixty

(09:56):
three but a little bit better. But I think these
two teams are probably the two most overlooked slash overrated
teams all season if you look at the numbers. But
when when you boil it down to its core, this
is Russell Wilson versus Aaron Rodgers. And if this matchup,
you know, before the postseason started, you say, hey, we're
gonna have Russell Wilson traveling to Green Bay to take

(10:17):
on Aaron Rodgers and the Packers and lambeau Field for
the Divisional round with a chance to make the NFC
NFC Championship Game. I think every single person in America
would have taken that and ran with it because this
is gonna be I think it's gonna be a great game,
And I think it is kind of strange how this
game seems to be getting overlooked by so many people. Well,
I mean, think about it. If this were a Sunday
night football game, for instance, or a Monday night football game,

(10:39):
where you had this game on a stage by itself,
it would be incredibly hyped up. And this is obviously
infinitely bigger because it's going on in the divisional round
of the playoffs in the NFL, and the other six
quarterbacks are not anywhere near as accomplished as these two guys,
and I feel like it's maybe a little bit under
the radar, and people just darn't buying in to the

(11:02):
idea that this could be the year where Aaron Rodgers
gets a second Super Bowl or Russell Wilson gets a
second Super Bowl. Now, I know, we kind of treat
a quarterback who wins a Super Bowl as a made man,
and so the other six guys out there, hey, if
they could find a way to win a Super Bowl,
it changes their career forever. There's no doubt the difference

(11:23):
between zero and one for Super Bowls is seismic, is monumental,
is massive. But the difference between being a guy who
wins one Super Bowl and being a guy who wins
multiple Super Bowls is also pretty transcendent when you think
about the way that we contemplate the careers when they're over.

(11:43):
Russell Wilson still relatively young, But how many better opportunities
than now is Aaron Rodgers gonna get for the rest
of his career. I don't know how many more years
he's gonna play, but it's hard to have a better
situation than this. If you're Aaron Rodgers, you got a
home playoff game where you're a favorite it to potentially
advance and be UH in the NFC Championship Game against

(12:05):
either a Jimmy Garoppolo or Kirk Cousins, who have never
been in anywhere near a game that big UH in
their lives. This is pretty pretty monumental for both both
Aaron Rodgers and for Russell Wilson as well. Eddie, you're
a fan of the Steelers, so you know what it's

(12:25):
like to be, you know, a team that's kind of
perpetually under the microscope, like I was saying with the Cowboys,
the Steelers, the Patriots, and the Packers. Seems like that
always is the case. Are you with me that this
Packer team feels super under hyped relative to what they've
delivered so far this year? Yeah, I think it's because
Aaron Rodgers hasn't been the Aaron Rodgers were used to sing.

(12:46):
Whether it's been because of the new offensive philosophy with
Matt Lafleur in there, or it's because he probably has
the best running back he's ever had in his career.
But whatever the cases, he you know, he hasn't been
talked about in any kind of m VP discussion or
anything like that. Um, he's certainly gonna have to make
some plays though if if they're gonna be a team
that would advance to the super Bowl. But I think
Fox is thrilled to have this matchup. You know, you

(13:08):
could argue that, you know, Deshaun Watson against Patrick Mahomes
might be uh more exciting quarterbacks, but as far as
established quarterbacks and guys who have done it a long
time and obviously, as you mentioned, have each one a
super Bowl, then Seahawks Packers I think is definitely a
game that in Yeah, I just think about it in
the context of let's say, for my my television show

(13:28):
we do with walk it in, um I I, and
and also the way people react. Usually a quarterback who
has won a Super Bowl remains wildly overhyped for the
rest of his career if he's the reason that they
won the Super Bowl, right, um, so maybe you can
give a little bit of an exception for Nick Foles
because he came in, although we get a lot of

(13:48):
attention to Nick Foles, but he kind of came in,
you know, put the cape on, came in as the
backup quarterback, found a way to get the Super Bowl.
But Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers are the reasons why
their teams won the Super Bowl, and they're going head
to head with the chance to advance to the NFC
Championship Game. And again, I think there's a decent chance

(14:11):
that the Vikings could go on the road and pull
off what would be a pretty decent upset against the
forty Niners, but still not as big of an upset
as they already pulled off over the page over the Saints.
And also, I believe Kirk Cousins getting that first playoff
win one reason why I'm betting on Cousins Uh for
the Vikings to go on the road and keep it

(14:31):
close against the forty Niners. Why I think that Ryan
Tannehill will go on the road and keep it close
against the Ravens, and why I like Deshaun Watson to
a certain extent as well on the road against the Chiefs.
Not necessarily for any of those guys to win, although
it wouldn't stun me, but to keep it closes, because
I think that there is a big psychological impact to

(14:53):
getting your first ever playoff win. It's hard to get
a playoff win. We have oversold the ease with which
playoff wins can occur sometimes by looking at guys like
Tom Brady, for instance, who's been to nine Super Bowls
and the Bills haven't been to a second round, haven't
won a playoff game in twenty five years a single

(15:15):
playoff game. For a lot of quarterbacks, winning a playoff
game is a monster deal to be able to do
it just once, and once you do it, the way
to the world almost comes off your shoulders in the
short term, because, yes, the pressure gets ratcheted up again
if you managed to make it to the Super Bowl
or you're playing to win an a f C or

(15:37):
an NFC championship game. But I feel like in the
divisional round, if you get that first playoff win, you
can kind of take a breath and maybe go out
and play a little bit relaxed in a way that
you weren't able to in the wild card round. So
I like Tannehill on the road with the Titans. I
like Deshaun Watson on the road with the Texans, And

(15:57):
I also like uh Kirk Uzen's on the road with
the Vikings because all of those guys just got their
first ever playoff win, and I feel like they're gonna
play well even though they're all a touchdown or more underdogs. Roberto,
what about you? Do you feel like maybe we should
be paying more attention to this game between the Packers
and the Seahawks given what Wilson and Rogers have accomplished

(16:20):
compared to the other six quarterbacks. Yeah, definitely. You know,
both of them super Bowl winning quarterbacks. And when we
do our top five bottom fight always have Seattle and
green by lower there on the top five. But it's
also because you know, we saw we saw the Packers
go to Santras is gonna get smoked earlier during the year,
and then Seattle hasn't been the typical dominant team that
we see them be at home. I think that's the

(16:41):
reason why it's been sold underplayed this game. Yeah, the
Seahawks have been great on the road. I think I
believe they are eight and one on the road. And
usually we talk about the Seahawks in that incredible home
field advantage that they have, but they actually have been
very mediocre at home and stellar on the road, which
but potentially bow well uh for them and how well

(17:02):
things could go on Sunday night when they travel up
to the frozen tundra in Lambeau uh to uh to
take on Aaron Rodgers in company. Be sure to catch
live editions about Kicked the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays
at six am Eastern three am Pacific. Harry Gignon. You
can listen to him on the Against All Odds podcast
on the Ringer Network. You can read him as part

(17:23):
of the Odd Shark crew. Harry, what's up, my man?
You're ready for some divisional round action? Can't wait? Hey,
this is great. Thanks for having me on again. That
happy new anybody. Yeah, I appreciate that. Alright, So I
just opened up the show saying, I feel like usually
the Packers are overhyped, right there, one of the four teams.
And you know this if you follow NFL action, The Patriots,

(17:45):
the Packers, the Steelers, and the Cowboys are probably the
four teams that get the most attention in the entirety
of the NFL every year. Yet this year, the Packers
are thirteen and three, They've got a legitimate threat in
the run game alongside of Aaron Rodgers. There are four
point favorite over the Seahawks, and I don't feel like

(18:07):
anybody is giving them any respect or any chance at
all to advance to the Super Bowl. Are certainly to
win it. How do you see this game breaking out?
Do you agree with me kind of that the Seahawks
Packer game feels like it's under the radar, And that
seems strange because Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers are both
so accomplished, having already won super Bowls and had a

(18:28):
lot of success in the postseason, compared to the other
six guys at the quarterback position that are still left. Yeah,
I definitely understand what you're saying. Definitely, I think the
Packers overall, that's been the team for me that just
hasn't been that impressible over over the season. I mean,
Aaron Jones has done and I'm so hero for them,
makes that nineteen total touchdowns. I don't know what they

(18:48):
would have done without him, but uh, they're they're eighteenth
against in the league in the in the yards against
their fifteenth and rushing nineteenth and passing on off and
so so, I mean, you know, Davante Adams missed time,
Jimmy Graham only had like thirty eight receptions this year,
had a soft schedule, beat only two playoff teams if

(19:10):
the Vikings and the Kansas City when it didn't have
my homes, and that a lot of their games have
been close where they shouldn't have been. They barely got
by Detroit twights, uh, barely got by Chicago twice, to
beat Washington and Carolina barely at home. So it's it's
gonna be interesting to see because you know, I think
Seattle got a little boost that the Road Warriors definitely

(19:30):
eight and one on the road of season. I think
Russell Wilson is going to have to start to run
a little bit more because them. I am concerned about
the Seahawks running game. They had a between Lynch and Homer.
They had seventeen carries for nineteen yards in the win
against Pilly. But I really think that DK Metcalf took off.
I mean, what a what a display. I mean, that's
a guy that Wilson could really count on going down

(19:51):
the field. What do you have to get a hundred
and sixty yards or receiving most every body rookie whois
received in his first playoff game in NFL history. Um,
look Seattle tennant too in the last twelve games and
the underdogs play at the ten three and one to
get spread on the road again. Like I said, really
road warriors here and the only twenties total sacks of
the whole season, it's seven last week against Philly. If

(20:14):
they can get that going. I like the points here.
I like Seattle at least with the four. I agree
with you. I'm on the Seahawks have already been him
this week on lock it in, um and uh getting
ready for that one. I think that it's gonna be
a field goal game one way or the other. And Uh,
I like the Seahawks to get to get to cover,
but also for that game to be a lot of

(20:35):
fun on Sunday evening on Fox. All right, let's stay
in the NFC then. Uh Kirk Cousins, I mean, what
a just a huge road win for him and for
the Vikings on the on the road obviously in the
Super Dome, third straight brutal loss. If you are a
Saints fan, uh, do you give Cousins and the Vikings

(20:57):
any chance to go on the road for a second
straight week and pull off another touchdown or more upset? Uh?
This time against the San Francisco forty Niners. Absolutely, if
you asked the sal I had Minnesota on the money
line on our against All podcast on odd Sharks as
who in my articles I had Minnesota money line. I

(21:19):
said I was the only one in North America that
defended and had faith in Kirk Cousins's I have that
I have faith in in the game. I think they
can do it again. I think the overall with THEE
is lately, Um, they haven't been the greatest um for
a team that had wound up second in the U

(21:41):
League in rushing the last the last they haven't had
to put this with. They haven't had a rushers over
seventy or more yards since the Baltimore game. I'm a
little concerned about that. With San Francisco UM the the
LI and two in the last five games, and they
easily could have lost all five. Um. You know, they
early got by the Rams when the Rams control of

(22:02):
that game, and uh could have lost Seattle on the
last players. Seattle didn't screw up UM in the regular season,
they would they would have had a play last week.
So it's very interesting. Plus, you know, this is Jimmy
Garobolo's first real playoff game as a player. I know
he had a plenty for uh uh New England as
a holding the you know, but still, this is his

(22:25):
first game. It's the loudest pressure on the San Francisco
and this is the first playoff game since two thousand twelve,
two thousand and thirty teams, and I just think the
Vikings overall here are a different team. They have a
swagger of them. When Dalvin Cook is in the lineup,
he's just been He established a running game last week.
Early on he had the big run and overtime and
Cousin just made the pass when he needed to win. Again,

(22:45):
the defense really stepped up. I told Sal and everyone
that Danil Hunter would have to make a pass rush,
He'd have to do something to get the brief. He
did it time and time again. Everson Griffin was in
the Joe Harrison s met that eleven eleven total tackles.
It was viking. I think the teams on a mission.
I think they again you grew with me. By the way,
speaking of the Saints, that the disappearing act of Alvin
Kamara is one of the most difficult to figure out

(23:09):
storylines in that Saints sort of debacle. Was he carried
the ball seven times for twenty one yards, but even
down the stretch run for the Saints. The guy who
came into the league like a house on fire and
was just extraordinary and so dynamic, he's not the same player.
And I don't know if it's not these these unhealthy
I don't know if it was him missing mark ingram

(23:30):
uh what exactly is going on there? But he just
looks like a shell of his former self. Yeah, he
really does. I mean an a couple of people listening
to the media and everything thought maybe the last game
or two of the regular season, he looked good and
they looked okay, he still didn't have those monster games,
and even I had mentioned before like uh, and throughout

(23:51):
the throughout the season, Heaven went a long, long stretch
of not even getting seven yards combined, you know. So
I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just not
Maybe it is uh missing Ingram because Ingram was a
nice dynamic duo they had there in the late England
land up the middle of Camara's to get to the outside.
They don't have that really anymore. So I was just
Camara and teams maybe exploded, found out and how to

(24:13):
how to play that sensually. We're talking with Harry Gignon.
You can follow him at A A O Harry on Twitter.
You can listen to him on the Against All Odds
Ringer podcast alongside of cousin Sal who is unlock it
in with Me, and you can also read him at
odd Shark. Okay, let's go to the a f C.
The Saturday night game. Titans go on the road against

(24:36):
the Ravens, and I want to start with how much
enjoyment did the Titans beating the Patriots give you? Oh?
Of course I love that, you know, I mean it's
I had a little feeling that the Patriots are still
gonna win the game because I was thinking there really
going to lose in the wild side weekend, We're not
going to see him in week two in the playoffs.
But that's what happened. I mean, they Titans totally shut them.
The defense was amazing, but shut them down the second half.

(25:00):
No points they weren't allowing they And it was even
better than that was seeing Bill Belichick get totally out
coached by Mike Rabell. That was definitely unexpected to be sure.
Now do you give the Titans any chance going on
the road? Uh? This line has ticked all the way
up to like nine ish, depending on where you're looking, like.

(25:22):
I'm looking at Fox Bet right now, and they have
it at nine and a half. Uh, you know, just
shy of ten, which both of these a f C
games we're gonna get to have pretty substantial numbers here. Uh.
What do you give the Titans a chance here? Do
you think Derrick Henry can get rolling again? Uh? And
or do you buy into the Lamar Jackson magic? A
couple of things here. I think that do need to

(25:43):
be factored in mark Ingram what in the world's going
on with his health? He didn't practice Uh, and they
obviously now the Ravens have not played by the time
this game starts in nearly three weeks, a game that
really matters. Do you think that could factor in as well? Yeah,
you know, I think I think said games big numbers. Uh,
if you can find nine and a half, even buy

(26:04):
it up to ten here. I think that solid play
taken the Titans. Really I do, because look, you said, uh,
Baltimore hasn't played in a while. Also, think about this,
like Derrick Henry, what a display that was old school
rushing the ball last week? Thirty four carry's kids, thirty
four carries hundred maybe two yards. How many tackles did

(26:26):
he break? It's so hard to bring this guy down.
I mean, you can put you can put your you
can rely on this guy to get it done again.
I mean, I think you have to pound that. I
know Baltimore is very good against it go on, but
very good defense overall. But I'd ride this horse. I'd
ride Derrick Henry. See what you can get with him
for the entire game. I mean, look, Baltimore hasn't played,
like you said. And also last season in the a

(26:48):
f C Wild Card Game, Lamar Jackson and Ravens lost
twenty three seven team to the Chargers. Um Jackson, haven't
I know it's a rookie. Last year had had a
very average game, four to completions hundred ninety four yards
and a pick, and he fumbled three times in that game.
He lost one of them. So there's a lot of
pressure all of a sudden on the Ravens because they
lost last year. Now they've been amad seat now their home. Look.

(27:11):
I think this is a situation where you know, the Titans,
they're hot. They played tough down the stretch and on
the lost coming up the things and lost another game,
but they played really tough and they primed themselves for
the spot. I think getting those points are really huge,
and I think, um, the Titans are, like I said,
Atlanta our football six and two straight up and against
spread in the last eight and the Ravens are just

(27:33):
one and six against spread in the last seven games
in January. Very interesting, Clay, all right, what about the
other a f C game, the final of the divisional rounds.
You've got the Texans who went on the road in
one in Week six in Kansas City and dominated UH
in doing so, UH and Deshaun Watson going on the
road against Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs in Kansas City.

(27:56):
Again that line also around nine and a half ish.
We you look at at the numbers, how do you
break this one down? You know, this one is a
tough This is the one game that I'm having tough
time with because, yeah, of course, you know, with Petro
Bones you can go off, you can light it. They
can light it up. They beat uh the Colts last
year in the first round of the playoffs and they
covered very easily, and that the number was fairly easy too.

(28:18):
But you know, this is sometimes just teams matchup good
against teams. And it was interesting earlier the season October
thirteen that the Chiefs lost at home to Deshaun Watson
and the Texans thirty. I don't know, I mean it's
a big number again, I mean last that game also,
Houston established a running game, Colors Hide at over hunder Darts.

(28:41):
They had two hundred of the team. Campus City only
had fifty three. But I know Andy Reid's captain Shawn
McCoy out for a while someone that he's ready for
this game, so they can try to get some sort
of running in going as well. Um, I'm not sure though,
because Texans are five and three on the road, uh,
and the three losses they only lost by one by
double digits once and Kansas City one and six against

(29:03):
the spread at home in January, the last seven one
and nine again to spread in the playoffs at home,
which was that win against the coach last year. UM,
I don't know here, I just think overall, I don't
love this game, Clay, but I think if you really
love Pat Mahomes, go ahead and take jana City. But
I think with the numbers that I just gave out,

(29:24):
I think Houston plus the nine and a half by
that by that up to tend to and maybe he
has some faith in O'Brien making right calls this week, which,
by the way, last week he was so fortunate to
win that game with the play calling that he made.
And I don't know who was worse than in my Dermot.
But anyways, I think overhaul here, I'd take Houston with
a point, but very ten sively I take a point.

(29:44):
Outstanding stuff as always Harry Gagnon at A A Oh Harry,
The Against All Odds podcast, and you can read him
at odd Shark. Good stuff, man. Thanks about Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f
s R to listen live. First Animal Thunderdome of the week,

(30:07):
First animal Thunderdome maybe of the year. I don't know
if we've done one yet. Cue the music, boys, ladies,
and gentlemen. I'm just glad. I was scared, boys and goods.
I thought he thought I was like this enormous piece

(30:28):
of chicken dime. Times I had to my Space. This
is animal Thunderdome. All right, Danny G what's you guy
for me? You are correct, sir. This is the first
animal Thunderdome of Let's start in Maine where a man
was bitten in the face by a rabid fox. That

(30:49):
seems like a rough way to go, trying to keep
this fox away from him by using his cane. Unfortunately,
this older guy he stumbled and he fell without the
support of his cane, and he was bitten in the face.
That same day, the news station there says that three
dogs were treated for being bitten by the same fox.

(31:12):
So crazy fox on the loose there in Maine. The
article says, in true main fashion, this eighty eight year
old fox victim who was bitten in the face held
onto the fox. He was able to fight with it, struggled,
but he held onto it in a headlock until the
police arrived. Policeman arrived to the scene, shot and killed
the fox. They're calling this guy a hero because obviously

(31:34):
this fox was doing damage there in your late eighties, Clay,
do you think you will be wielding a cane? Uh?
You probably hope I make it to the late eighties. Oh,
but I don't get attacked by a by a fox.
By the way, I've got this one. This. I don't
know if this has you have this one on your list.
But a woman who was out scuba diving with her husband.

(31:56):
Did you hear about this in Australia? Uh. She was
scuba diving and her husband just jumped in the water
when he was attacked by a great white shark and
killed in front of her. Uh. She issued a statement
about her husband, describing him as quote a kind, gentle
strong man, saying she doesn't want the shark responsible for

(32:19):
his death to be killed. Uh. And uh this is uh.
He and I were at home in and on the ocean.
We would go out diving on our boat whenever we could.
We were always aware of the risks and often told
each other if we were attacked by a shark that
would just be unlucky. Uh and uh, so this is
pretty wild. Did you guys see this this story? Like, Uh,

(32:42):
this guy jumps in, his wife is watching from the
boat and uh he got killed right then and there
in Australia by the great white shark as soon as
he jumped in. Another one from Australia here from Brisbane. Uh.
Single mother nearly died after being bitten in her bed
by a venomous snake. Happens all the time. Man. Here's
the thing though, she thought that it was her five

(33:04):
year old Maltese Shitsu mix Freckle, because she woke up
with blood on her arm and the dog was barking.
The nurse, it says, who's a single mother of a
two year old, had two small red puncture marks on
her right arm, but assumed Freckle had jumped on her
and scratched her in the middle of the night, so
she went back to sleep. Hours later, she woke up

(33:24):
in excruciating pain. She was rushed to the hospital, where
she had a seizure. Fell unconscious and she almost died.
She got there just in time. Experts have identified now
the snake as a poisonous yellow faced whip snake. There
are so many different types of poisons. Like the one
thing I will say, if you get bitten by a

(33:45):
snake and it's poisonous in the United States, we know,
like you recognize the name, like somebody's like, oh, I
got bit by a rattlesnake, or I got bitten by
a copper head or like, you know, like you can
run through pretty much there's only what six or seven
different snakes and we hear them and we're like, oh, yeah,
I know, that's a you know, snake that's poisonous. You
don't want to get bitten by that. Like the number

(34:06):
of snakes that are poisonous in Australia seems to be
like in the hundreds, what did you say, that snake
was called a whip snake. Yeah, it's like a yellow
pit but noise ever heard of that, Yeah, yellow faced
whip snake. No, I mean that seems like it's unfair.
The number of snakes they can kill you that nobody's
ever heard of in Australia is off the charts. Yeah,
they did an IVY drip to flush out her system.

(34:28):
Saved her life. She says. Now I have major anxiety,
nightmares and I can't sleep. I jump at everything. If
someone touches me, I jump on the skin. No kidding,
I mean, I don't know I'd ever be able to
sleep again if I got bitten by a poisonous snake
or a snake, or even if in the bed at all,
like I I would never. I don't know that i'd
ever recover from that. I don't know that i'd fall

(34:50):
asleep at night. All right, let's go to Zimbabwe. Another crocodile.
It's of course another one, and another fisherman. This guy
was able to fight off this huge crock, but he
had most of his leg torn to pieces, major flesh wounds.
Is thirty one year old fisherman. He was attacked from
behind by the croc as he was fishing at night

(35:11):
and as Zimbabwe lake. It seems like a lot of
these people who get killed by crocodiles are making very
questionable life choices. Yeah. Well, like we talked about last week,
they do have to fish for survival, but understood and
not at night though, right, Yeah, I mean you would
think that maybe you would decide, I I'm not an
expert on you know, like how you know, like if

(35:31):
you're in a rural area, you know at night, it's
super dark. Right, It's not like you're in New York
City or you're in Miami or l A or something
like that. Right, I can only imagine that being out
on a Zimbabwe lake is basically pitch black. So why
you would make the decision to need to go do
it then doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

(35:52):
It seems like a very poor choice. A couple of
details in this story. Besides that major leg injury, he
had one of his fingers bitten off as he was
defending himself. It took five hours for this man to
reach a hospital. They had to take him by boat
to get help, and when he got to the hospital,
they did not have an operating room available, so they

(36:13):
had to cut off the damaged flesh while he was
still awake. Well, there you go. When you think you're
having a rough start to your day, did you get
attacked by a crocodile, have to wait five hours to
get to a hospital and then get to the hospital
and they didn't have the necessary supplies in order to
be able to operate on you. Probably not. Your life's
not that bad to begin with. You weren't having to

(36:35):
fish at night in Zimbabwe and a crocodile infested lake,
So your life's really not that bad. This is out
kicked the coverage with Clay Travis. We are rolling appreciate
all of you hanging out with us as we come
into the mid part of the week Divisional round of
the NFL playoffs. Are here four great games that we

(36:58):
are spending a lot of time disc using. UH. Get
to those here in a moment. Also, we didn't talk
about this much an hour one, but we had a
couple of new coaching hires announced with Matt Rule moving
from Baylor to the Carolina Panthers. Nearly nine million dollars
a year guaranteed, seven year contract for the new owner

(37:21):
of the Carolina Panthers. Hiring Matt Rule will be interesting
to see what direction Baylor goes. But that guy did
one of the all time great college football coaching jobs.
Taken Baylor from one and eleven to eleven and three
UH in his UH in his third year. That is
improbable and incredible if you consider what bad shape Baylor

(37:45):
was in when Matt Rule got that job. For him
to have the success that he did is really off
the charts level coaching. UH so big time moved by
the Carolina Panthers. And the decision the Carolina Panthers are
gonna have to make is now that they have Matt
Rule locked in. What does Matt Rule think about their
quarterback situation? When last year Cam Newton played the first

(38:07):
two games of the year and then effectively was out
with with the foot injury. Will he come back next year? Uh?
This coming season? Or are the Carolina Panthers gonna potentially
move on from Cam Newton while they try to build
back around him. Will Greer didn't play that well, Kyle
Allen faded. Could they go into the draft and make

(38:30):
a move there? It's worth contemplating. By the way, we
talked about yesterday UH to AH and where the draft
number would be set for two UH and I said, look,
this guy is gonna be a top ten pick. I
don't have any doubt at all. Fox Bet set the
over under for where he's gonna be drafted at four
and a half. We debated that yesterday on the show,

(38:53):
like whether we go over under and so basically the
expectation is if you're a Miami Dolphin fan, that it
would be a big surprise at this point in time
if the decision was not made for the Dolphins to
take two AH at five. We had the tank for
to a campaign. Turned out the Dolphins didn't even have

(39:13):
to tank. Brian Flores and the Dolphins had a really
good close to their year five and four. I think
there's probably a decent chance they bring back Ryan Fitzpatrick,
let him kind of groom to h as the younger man, uh,
you know, recovers from his injury, and let Fitzpatrick play
for him. Um, that would be my expectation for the

(39:35):
Mammi Dolphins. So I think if you want to uh,
you're probably gonna have to trade up into the top five.
Maybe you get the Detroit Lions to trade out, maybe
you get I believe, let's see what's the what's the
top five, because we know, I think a pretty fair
approximation that the Bengals are going to make the decision
to go and get uh Joe Burrow at number one overall. UH.

(39:59):
The y Shington Redskins could be interested in the two
spot at trading out Detroit Lions at the three and
the Giants at the four. If you really love tah
I think there's a good chance you're gonna have to
get either the Redskins, the Lions or the Giants pick
and trade up to get in front of the Miami Dolphins,
who I believe will take him at five. That would

(40:20):
be my expectation right now, and that's why the over
under has been set at four and a half. But
the Panthers, in their decision, will be intriguing to see
exactly what goes on there now. There's also been some
talk about about the Giants decision to go with a
guy that most of us don't really know. Let's be honest,
who was the special teams coordinator for the New England

(40:43):
Patriots and also their wide receivers coach. And uh, the
guy's only what thirty eight years old, judge and a
lot of people out there up in arms like, oh
my god, how in the world is this guy get
the job? That answers the same way that Brian Flores
got a job because he's associated with Bill Belichick and
whether or not it's been smart, and most of the

(41:04):
time it has not been smart. If you are connected
to Bill Belichick in some way, whether you're Romeo Cranell,
Matt Patricia, Bill O'Brien, uh, Brian Flores. Now, judge, you
end up getting jobs to be head coaches Charlie Weiss
uh back back in the day. If we want to
go back the man genius man GINI, like all of

(41:25):
these different guys have gotten jobs based on their proximity
to Bill Belichick. We can argue about whether or not
that makes sense. Personally, I don't think it does, because
by and large, you don't get genius to pass via osmosis.
And what I mean by that is, if proximity to
greatness guarantee that you would be a really good coach yourself,

(41:48):
then everybody should be trying to sign Terry Saban, Nick
Saban's wife, to take over their college football program because
few people have spent more time around Nick Saban than
she has over the course of their marriage. Now, the
reality is that doesn't make sense because genius is unique,
and what we've seen is as the Patriots or for
that matter, Nick Saban, have constantly had to be shuttling

(42:11):
through and replacing new coaches. What's ended up happening those
guys have continued to win at a very high level
because the reason why their teams win is because of them,
not because of the people that work underneath them. Now,
I don't think that's gonna change. I think Josh McDaniel
is gonna get another job after failing already at Denver.
I think that he will probably be. If I were

(42:31):
betting right now, who's gonna be the next Cleveland Brown coach,
I would bet on Josh McDaniels being the answer. And
it's yet another person who is connected to Bill Belichick. Now,
last year we had a little bit of break in
that where guys who were getting jobs were all connected
to Sean McVeigh. But the luster kind of came off
of Sean McVeigh last year because the rams were just okay,

(42:54):
and even though some of the guys that were connected
to him that got jobs, whether it was la Fleur
who had a really good a year with the Green
Bay Packers, or whether it was Cliff Kingsbury, who I
think people were pretty happy without in Arizona. Uh, really,
other than Taylor at at Cincinnati, everybody had a pretty

(43:14):
good year who was connected to Sean McVeigh, who was
one of these young offensive gurus. But in the grand
scheme of things, I think we're circling back around to
the Belichick connection. Uh. There's some talk about the fact
that minorities are not getting jobs. There four open jobs.
It looks like maybe we've got three white guys who
got jobs. I think that's overblown, frankly, um, because I

(43:36):
think ultimately you can say a lot of things about
the NFL, but I think the NFL is the ultimate meritocracy.
And the thing that is the most uh, I think
consistent is if you are better than somebody else, eventually
you get an opportunity and you can prove whether or

(43:56):
not that's the case. And so I think what's happened
is there is a great demand for young offensive coaches,
for people who can go out and be able to
put together these chunk plays, make big time performance performances.
And these guys that are in that vein right now
are all young guys who came into the league, it

(44:18):
feels like, at super early ages, or got into coaching
almost immediately. And I think the one aspect of coaching
that probably gets underrated, and this is good advice in
general I think for life is if you decide that
you want to do something, you need to do it
as young as you possibly can. Uh, you will never

(44:39):
be able to take advantage of your youth. And we
had Melt Tucker on the Wins and Losses podcast and
by the way, we got Eddie George uh coming on,
should be out later today. It's phenomenal if you are
if you are interested in something that you need to
listen to long form. These long form interviews were doing
on the Wins and Losses podcast are truly outstanding, I

(45:00):
have to say, and it's not because of me, it's
because of our guests and how engaging they are in
terms of hanging out with the stuff. You listen to
that interview you're taping it with us. How good was
that Eddie George conversation we had yesterday. It was a
great conversation. And I know you know obviously who Eddie
George is in his football life, but I really had
no idea about his life growing up and how he

(45:21):
got to where he came to be. And there's some
unbelievable stories that he shared in that interview yesterday. So
once that has put up, it is a must listen
for sure. Yeah, he went to Fork Union Military Academy.
He said he was a kid who had some problems
growing up in Philadelphia and his mom drove him there
and put him into that school when he was fifteen
I think he was sixteen years old. Uh, And he
ended up spending three years there and that's where he

(45:42):
developed and became a decent recruit. But he had to
basically sell himself, um and in order to get a job,
get to get a scholarship at Ohio State. Some of
those stories are phenomenal from him. I think you guys
are really going to enjoy it. But we had Melt
Tucker on and h he's now the head coach at Colorado,

(46:03):
and I said, you know, how do you get your start?
And he said, we basically you're making no money at all.
And you know, I would sleep under my desk on
a regular basis. And a lot of times I feel
like I get this question all the time because people
are like, how do you get involved in sports media?
How do you do radio? How do you do TV?
How do you do writing? All these questions, and I

(46:23):
don't think there's any one particular pathway that makes the
most sense to do, but all of them begin with
virtually no money. And I feel like many kids out
there have a desire they think to do something, but
as soon as they see what they're actually going to
make doing it and how many hours they're gonna have

(46:44):
to work, they lose interest in it and they say, oh,
you know, I'm maybe that doesn't make as much sense
as I thought. And my argument is, if you have
a passion and you go full bore after your passion,
and you learn it and go as hard as you
can it at some point in time, money oftentimes follows

(47:04):
passion if you are hard working and you love something,
and even if you're only starting out. I mean some
of these salaries, like I always enjoy in the Wins
and Losses podcast talking with all these coaches about what
their first salary is. I mean, guys are making like
five or six or seven thousand dollars a year. I'm
not even kidding, you know, like you gotta stipend, maybe
you get a free place to live, but you're working

(47:26):
eighty hours a week and making virtually no money. And
the reality is most people don't want it bad enough.
That's kind of the the the culling that goes on
I think in the coaching universe, A lot of players
have great careers, but they look at how hard coaches
work and they say, my god, the last thing I
want to do when I'm done playing football is work

(47:48):
eighty hours a week on game plans. And so there
are a lot of guys that want to do that.
There are a lot of twenty one and twenty two
year olds out there that are so desperate the Sean
mcveigh's of the world, that they'll do whatever wor it
takes at eighteen, nineteen twenty to get their foot in
the door in order to one day be able to
be a head coach. And so the advantage that you
get at the entry point is uh is is how

(48:10):
these guys end up getting their jobs? And what I
would be interested in, and I've never seen the data
on this. Instead of waiting to see what the background
is of people who get head coaching jobs in the NFL,
I'd be interested to see what the background is of
people who start trying to get head coaching jobs in
the NFL when they're eighteen and nineteen and twenty years old.

(48:33):
Because you can't produce at the end result, really good
coaches by the time you get to be forty five
or fifty or sometimes even younger than that. Now unless
the entry point is also uh ending up in a
similar perspective, right, so you can't worry about the end
result and until you know where you start. And uh,

(48:56):
I think these are ultimately the most meritocratic jobs you
can get. And the other thing I would say, as
people say, well, uh, you know, like we're not getting
enough diversity and all those things, I don't spend as much. Man,
maybe this is maybe this's a philos so peop will
be upset with me, probably for saying this. I don't
spend time worrying about what the background is of somebody
who gets a job, right Like, I don't sit around

(49:17):
and say, oh, what's the racial makeup of the defensive
backs in the NFL? Right Like, I've never heard anybody say,
you know what, we need more racial diversity at defensive
back in the NFL. You know, we haven't had a
white starting defensive back in the NFL since Jason Shorn
back in the nineties. So I don't sit around and say, oh, well,

(49:40):
that means that there must be Asian and Hispanic and
white people who are being discriminated against at defensive back.
I say, well, you know what, the best defensive backs
in the NFL must be black guys, and the reason
why they're getting those jobs is because they're the most
qualified to get those jobs. And I don't hear anybody saying, well,

(50:01):
we need a more aggressive pool of candidates, because it
doesn't make sense that twelve percent of the population would
would have a hundred percent of all NFL defensive back
jobs for uh twenty five years or whatever the heck
has been since Jason Shorn started a job. Statistically, that
is beyond improbable that a small minority of the population,

(50:25):
meaning black people in America today, would have a hundred
percent of all cornerback jobs in the NFL. And oh,
by the way, there are hardly any corners who are
white at major college football, right, So if you were
out there or Asian or Hispanic, the next all Asian
defensive backfield that starts in college also would be the first, right.

(50:47):
But I don't hear a lot of people saying, well,
there must be discrimination against Asian and white and Hispanic cornerbacks.
People say, well, you know, like, when you really break
that down, it's statistically way more in probable that all
defensive backs would be white would be black, then that
many head coaches in the NFL would be white, right,

(51:08):
because white people are the majority of the country. So
when you look at those numbers, I believe in a
meritocracy in the NFL. Why because racism actually would make
it less likely that you would win games, right, And
this is this is why ultimately I believe in markets
more than I believe in artificial laws that we put

(51:31):
in place. Let me explain why if if you really
dive into uh into the NFL, it's a highly competitive business, right.
I don't think there's anybody out there who's listening to
us right now that would say every NFL team is
not working as hard as they can to find the
best possible talent at every position in order to win

(51:53):
as many games as they can. I don't think there's
a single person out there like there's if you are arguing, oh,
you know, other than maybe a team is not trying
to maximize its wins because they want to get into
the draft and be able to get a top quarterback.
We almost never here, for instance, an NFL team accused
of not caring or trying to win. But because it's

(52:14):
hard to fake football, it's so physically demanding all of
those things. If a football team were racist, it would
actually hurt their chances to win, because racism at its
essence means that you are choosing somebody other than the
best person for the job because of bias and discrimination

(52:38):
because of the color of their skin. Right, so, leaving
aside the morality of it and everything else, and purely
looking at it from a wins and losses perspective, if
you are not considering someone for a job because of
the color of their skin, then you are making it
less likely that your football team will win. If you

(52:58):
were out there and you're saying, hey, I would ever
go draft a black quarterback, then racism is actually working
against you because you're not considering the full scope of
available talent. If you are saying, hey, I would never
go sign a white wide receiver, then you are similarly
being racist. And so if you are eliminating anybody from

(53:22):
contention for a job that they otherwise would be able
to get and do well and better than others because
of the color of their skin, then your racism is
working against you and making it more likely your team
will lose. More Over, if you are not a racist team,
then you would actually have a competitive advantage. Let me

(53:42):
give you an example of somebody that I think had
a competitive advantage. Look at what Bill Belichick did with
white wide receivers. I think if we had Bill Belichick
on this program right now and I said, Bill Belichick,
how did you end up signing all these white guys
to play wide receiver? I think what he would tell
you is he recognized a market based inefficiency that white

(54:05):
wide receivers were being discriminated against because people did not
believe that they were good enough to play at a
high level in the NFL. And as a result, he
could draft them with lower draft picks, he could sign
them to lower cost contracts than he would have if
they had the exact same attributes and they had happened
to be black, because most wide receivers in the NFL

(54:28):
are black. That's an example of a structural inefficiency that
may well have existed in the NFL that the Patriots
were able to exploit. And it kind of turned into
a joke, right. You see all these memes of like
Bill Belichick, Like anytime a white wide receiver runs a
fast time at the combine, they have like the Belichick
with the gut with the with the uh with the

(54:49):
binoculars on, you know, like sitting there on on social media.
Uh like, oh you know, I just I just saw this. Well,
that's because I think the Patriots exploited a structural inefficiency
in the market, and so if I were an owner,
what I would be trying to do across the board
is exploit structural inefficiencies and racism. Again, leaving aside the morality,

(55:12):
racism is a structural inefficiency in a market. If you
are saying somebody can't do something because of the color
of their skin, then you are making a poor decision
when it comes to maximizing your wins and losses because
you were not considering everybody for a job, and you
might miss the best candidate. So that's my analysis of

(55:35):
why I don't believe that every time something doesn't work
out in favor of a blackhead coaching candidate, it is
a sign of racism. If anything, if there are racist teams,
then the teams that aren't racist would have an advantage
in terms of wins and losses because their candidate pool
for jobs, either on the field or off the field,

(55:57):
would be more substantial. So people are like, oh, Eric
b Enemy didn't get a job, that's a sign of racism. Well,
if it were, then the team that hires Eric b
Enemy is gonna get a steal. I just don't buy
into it because I think the NFL is too competitive
to allow racism by and large to exist very often,
because by not being racist, you'd be more likely to win. Now,

(56:19):
that's an argument that is more nuanced and I think
more intelligent than most people you're gonna hear in the
world of sports media. But ultimately that's why I believe
in markets, because markets are about finding efficiencies and inefficiencies,
and if you find an inefficiency, just like Billy Bean
back in the day and Moneyball, the reason why the

(56:39):
A's were able to win was he recognized that the
way we did statistical analysis from a data perspective undervalued walks.
At its most basic level, the job of any batter
is to get on base, and we overvalued base hits
and undervalued walks. And he looked at on base percentage.
That's the essence of Moneyball was got in order to

(57:01):
score runs, you have to get guys on base. I
don't care what these guys look like. I don't care
what their numbers look like I care about who gets
on base well. In the NFL, I care about who
makes me better and more likely to win games. And
if I'm excluding anyone, then I am not doing my
job as an owner or a general manager or any

(57:21):
kind of team president. I gotta have the largest possible
candidate pool of available job hires, and then I want
to get the best possible options, because that's the way
that I end up winning championships. I think the the
the Patriots are a good example of that, with using
as an example of that white wide receivers they were

(57:42):
undervalued based on the color of their skin. If there
are undervalued coaching candidates based on the color of their skin,
a smart owner needs to be out there swooping up
those candidates, and if he does a good job of it,
he'll win. Look, I think that happened with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
They went and got Mike Homlin. Mike Tomlin is one
of the five best coaches in the NFL. How many

(58:04):
other teams would not have considered Mike Tomlin solely because
he was a black guy. That's a structural inefficiency that
the Steelers may well have been able to exploit. Like
Bill Belichick was able to exploit the structural inefficiency of
white wide receivers who were otherwise able to do the
job that weren't getting the opportunity because there was a
discrimination against him because the belief was, oh, that's a

(58:25):
job the black guy should have. If that exists in
the world of the NFL, then it should be exploited
by a smart team owner who finds incredible talent that's
being overlooked based on the color of the skin and coaching.
That's why I believe in markets Ultimately, in a highly
competitive marketplace, talent ends up winning out. Might take somebody

(58:46):
a chance, might take someone taking a chance, and maybe
that's what it requires with a Bill Belichick. Maybe the
reason why Belichick was willing to take that chance was
he had already won super Bowls and he didn't have
to worry about suddenly if he has a bunch of
white dude is playing a wide receiver getting fired because
of the way that looks relative to expectation. Anyway, the

(59:07):
point here is expand your mind, think about the largest
possible candidate pool, and don't be afraid of doing something
that someone else might not do, because oftentimes that can
lead to success. The one thing that disappoints me about
NFL hiring in general is we still live in the

(59:27):
era of I'm gonna hire somebody based on their proximity
to somebody else who was successful, which is to me
a failed strategy. Just because somebody worked for Bill Belichick
doesn't mean that they're gonna be the next Bill Belichick.
Same thing with Nick Saban. By the way, for any
other head coaching job, be sure to catch live editions

(59:48):
of out Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days
at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We got Jeff
Schwortz rolling in. Appreciate him. We've been talking, obviously a
lot about divisional round games here with the NFL coming up.
Which of these games do you think will be the
most competitive, because we've got some big spreads. The Vikings

(01:00:09):
are a seven point underdog on the road against the
forty Niners. The Titans and the Texans both on the
road against the Ravens and the Chiefs respectively, around nine
point underdogs. The only game that looks like it's gonna
be somewhat tight according to oddsmakers is the Seahawks on
the road against the Packers. What do you anticipate in

(01:00:29):
these games? Do you think we'll see some close games
or do you think there's a pretty big gap between
the home teams and the road I think in the
A s C, we're gonna see uh two games with
the home team cover sorry to your chanancy Titans um.
On the NFC side, I think we'll get some close games.
I think obviously the Seahawks, Packers, both teams, um are
just they're not really good. I don't I don't know

(01:00:51):
that they're just if Russell Wilson makes up all the
errors that that Seattle has. I think Green Bays is
kind of boring. They don't they don't really ever stretch
out leaves, um. They don't do anything terribly explosive on
all offense. Defensively, they can rush the passer, but if
they don't get home, they're not terribly great on defense. Um.
You know. And then the other NFT gamesually, if the

(01:01:11):
Vikings get out to a fast start like the Saints game,
and I think we have a chance to have a
good game. If the Miners come out and score early,
go seven, nothing, go up, find nothing, um, I think
we're gonna have kind of that that primetime Cousins. We
always worry about, right, a player who um doesn't shine
as bright in the spotlight when they're down. Remember, they
were basically, you know, ahead almost all the of the

(01:01:36):
you know, end of the second quarter into the second half,
and cousinsn't have to do much. Now, he made a
great throw the Celand overtime. That was an amazing throw,
best of his career in my opinion. But the Miners
get up big. I'm just see if the Vikings have
enough to amount to come back, do you. Uh So,
let's let's go into some of these games a little bit.
And and I kind of hinted at this earlier in

(01:01:57):
the hour, but mark Ingram didn't practice. Uh how important
is he to the Ravens offense? And how nervous would
you be about his health status if after you know,
they set him out for the final week of the season,
he has another full week of the of the you know,
sit out for the bye. And now he's not practicing

(01:02:19):
the week of a game, and the games on Saturday,
so it's not like it's even on Sunday. So sitting
out Tuesday is maybe a bigger deal than it would
be if you play on Sunday. Should the Ravens be
concerned about his health, I think they have to be, Um,
kath injury is really rough to come back from. That.
I've never had one, but I've talked to people. We've
actually seen the recovery of these injuries take a long time.

(01:02:41):
It seems to be a muscle that's that's tough to
recover from. Um, you know, as far as worry about
him in the game, I don't know. I don't know
how much you worry about a single running back. Quite often,
you know, they've had backups. Just Edwards can do just
a good of a job. I mean, I think your
your idea is obviously Ingram is more of a hammer
and Jus Edwards isn't. But you know, well March accident,
the latest offense goes and a lot of people think

(01:03:03):
that the Ravens could be rusty in the situations that
haven't played their starters in a while. UM, I think
with a with a timing offense, with a kind of
precision passing game, I could see that being the case.
But when you have a downhill rushing attack three weeks
off feels great, right, the offensive linement are fresh. It'ching
to go hick someone again. Lamar Jackson's got fresh amacting, steeling,

(01:03:23):
Grays Rater ju the people out. So I don't really
see that being a concern for the Ravens. I mean,
you can say the Titans are confident, as they should,
and maybe they get an early score too, But I
just think the Ravens offense, it's hard for them not
to be on unless there's some where it was. And lastly,
the winter is supposed to be awesome on on on

(01:03:45):
a Saturday nights, supposed to be higher, higher the you know,
in the sixties, so won't be that cold on game time,
no wind, no rain, So it kind of sets a
purpose of the Titans. I mean that should be the Ravens. Uh.
Do you think that the Titans will be able to
run the ball in the same way with Derrick Henry
against the Ravens as they did against the Patriots. Why

(01:04:05):
is it so tough for Titans fans to admit this. Hey,
I'm happy we won the game. We beat the Patriots,
but the reason we won that game is because our
defense played well. The Patriots offense sucks because you all
scored fourteen points. You guys acting like you score understand.
I don't think people care how they won the game. Uh,

(01:04:26):
And I think, oh oh no, your fans on Twitter
care exactly how they won the game. I think I
think people have seen Ryan Tannehill play, and what I
would say is the Titan offense was a B minus
offensive effort. Right, they didn't make any plays at all
in the passing game and they were still able to win. Now,
if Ryan Tannehill goes out and he plays like that

(01:04:48):
against the Ravens, I would be stunned beyond belief. If
the Titans are able to win, but he shown the ability.
I mean, they've averaged over thirty points per game. So
the Titan wide receivers I think combined two catches for
ten yards. So to me, if I look at this, uh,
if if I look at this Titans game against the Ravens,
I don't think the Titans can go out and win

(01:05:09):
another fourteen to thirteen, seventeen to fourteen style game because
I don't think you can shut down the Ravens. I
think you have to be able to score thirty one
or thirty five points probably in order to win. I
think the Titans can do it, but I think that's
gonna require Ryan Tannehill to play like he played a
lot of the regular season. Well, it's gonna it's gonna
be that. And and and the Ravens are interesting because they're
not going to come out I think with the tame

(01:05:30):
streets and play a bunch of zone coverage and play
two I safeties and and let you know, kind of
let you know, let the times run. And they're an
aggressive defense to bring a lot of pressure. I would
expect actually Tannehill to play better because I think they're
gonna have a lot of opportunities for a J. Brown
to be on Marcus Peters and man coverage and kind
of double move on some play actually pass. I think
it's really an interesting with the times offense. It's almost

(01:05:53):
depending on how the Ravens offense plays are the times
of defense right, because if they this is the problem
when you play the Ravens is that you know they
often score in the first drive, right and now of
a sudden, you know you don't you don't get really
tight on offense, but you know, if you go three
and out or or you don't get a score here,
they could be fourteen nothing really fast and then all
of a sudden your offense is basically kind of passing

(01:06:15):
the ball the rest of the game. So if the
Ravens get out to an early lead, then obviously Kenny
Hill has has to duty has to do. But if
the Titans defense plays well and you can kind of
control the the the scoreboard and you'll be able to
run the balls, much does you want? Is a pass
rush underrated or sorry overrated against a guy like Lamar Jackson?

(01:06:35):
And what I mean by that is we hear a
lot of times, oh, you gotta get to the quarterback,
you gotta hit him everything else. But when you get
up field sometimes you are losing your discipline in terms
of creating running lanes for the quarterback. So is it
less important to sack Lamar Jackson and more important to
contain him than maybe other quarterbacks would be in the
playoffs kind of situation? Yeah, I think you have to

(01:06:59):
have specific ush's third down to make sure it doesn't
escape the pocket. And there's ways to force at least,
you know, theoretically forced Lamar to one side to build
it this pretty well where they they they passed rushed
in a way to force Lamar to one side and
then bring a spy kind of right down hill to him.
So the thing, the thing that I don't know if

(01:07:19):
Tennessee has and this is why I think we've seen
only a couple of teams really slow down Lamar Jackson
is fast linebackers. I know that the Times linebackers and
Evans played well on the goal in situation obviously, but
you'd have speeded linebacker to really contain Lamar because you know,
it's always gonna find a way to get out of pocket.
And that spy you have on him has got to

(01:07:40):
be fast. And that's the issue with spy Lamar Jackson
is I don't have that guy so least fast, and
they see how they pass rushing knowing that they might
not have that great spy. All right, So in the
other other games, what's your favorite bet of this wild card? Sorry,
the divisional round we gain? I think the Chiefs killed

(01:08:02):
the Texans. Um, Why do you think that? Well? I
don't think the Texans are terribly our coach terribly. Well.
They've had Bill Obrians had four home playoff games. He's
been shut out in the first half of three or four. Um,
you know they needed to Shaun Watson to have a
magic game. Again. They have no, Um, they don't ever
block blitzes. I don't understand that. Like they let Lamar

(01:08:24):
on me, they let the Shawn just like take it
in the face. I don't understand. And you obviously made
that great play to win the game. The Chiefs playing
a ton of pressure, and looked the Week six game.
The Chiefs were down Watkins and Hitchens and Fisher and
and that Chris Jonales and Frank Clark was was injured,
and Tyreek Koe came back from his first game and
Pat wasn't you know, it wasn't very sharp and they

(01:08:45):
still almost won the game. So I think you'd need
an amazing effort from Houston keep this this thing close. Um,
and I think the Chiefs to me on the team,
I know it's I think the biggest spread too, But
this this feels like a forty five I've twenty one
time game with the Chiefs. Just don't bring it, which
unfortunately has happened before in the playoffs. But I remember, Prime,

(01:09:07):
you're ready for a huge game, and then you know
we'll we'll get the the anter Championship game. We deserve
the Ravens and the Chiefs. So who's your Super Bowl pick?
Right now with these eight teams remaining, UM, I think
you go with the one Seeds. I didn't you go
to San Francisco in Baltimore. Um, you know, I just
think both historically they're one of the best teams that
we've seen. I mean the way they're able to move

(01:09:27):
the ball to offense and and compliment that with some
really attacking defense. And you know, obviously I love the
Chiefs my brother players there, but I didn't going up
to Baltimore. And the linebacker situation with the speed is
also an issue for the Chiefs. On the NFC side,
it's in wor wide open, but not as they're just
better than the Packers. They're better than the Vikings, are
better than the Seahawks. They do not want to the

(01:09:48):
Seahawks again. I promise you probably Routs and the Packers
to win that game. Um, So I would I go
with the Niners and Ravens, And I imagine the line
would be close to pick them, so it would be
it would be a great game with Yeah, for sure.
Outstanding stuff is always my man. We'll talk to you
next week, alright. Thank Fox Sports Radio has the best
sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch All of our

(01:10:11):
shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the
I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.
I started off the hour talking about coaching hires and
UH player hires and everything else. And my argument is,
just leave aside the morality of it, that it's wrong
to judge somebody based on what they look like. Right,
to leave that aside. I actually think it's negative for

(01:10:33):
your overall team because it limits the available pool of
people that you could hire for the best possible job,
which in the end would ultimately work against you because
it would mean that you would be more likely to
lose games. You buy that theory, Danny G. Do you
want to do away with the rooning rule then, because
the past couple of days a lot of people have

(01:10:53):
been speculating that that rule is old school and kind
of a joke the way it's been played out here. Look,
I think it's an interesting question in general. Right, the
idea is behind that, So let's step back and consider
what the larger context of the rule is. Right. The
idea is there are people who would otherwise be good
coaching candidates that are not getting interviews because of their race. Um,

(01:11:16):
And so the idea is we're going to expand the
pool of available job job interviews by guaranteeing people who
might be otherwise be overlooked interviews. The problem is, as
I see it, that let's say, let's use the Dallas
Cowboys as an example. It seems clear to me that
Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys decided and focused on

(01:11:36):
Mike McCarthy as their guy that they wanted, and then
they went and they interviewed, uh, Marvin Lewis because he
fulfilled the Rooney rule, right, even though they had no
interest in hiring Marvin Lewis, they conducted an interview with
him just to check that box on the requirement. I
don't but and to me, that seems like the equivalent

(01:11:58):
of a quota, right, quota, Like, you have to have
somebody to do this, uh, in order to hire Mike McCarthy.
Before you do so, Dallas Cowboys, you have to interview
another guy who's a minority, Marvin Lewis, even though you
don't have any interest in hiring him. And that's a
tough spot, right, because if you're Marvin Lewis, you're not

(01:12:20):
gonna turn down an interview with the Dallas Cowboys because
you believe that, I would think you get in the room,
you can convince them that you're the right choice. Um.
But simultaneously, it seems like it's an artificial and broken
system to require somebody to interview a guy that they
have no interest in hiring entirely based on his race.

(01:12:40):
So this is like, I don't think I can answer
that question in thirty seconds here as we go to break.
I'll talk about it as we come back at the
top of our three. What my argument is is, if
you are an organization and you are not considering the
entire scope of available candidates for your position, whether that's
a running back because Christian McCaffrey's a white guy and

(01:13:02):
you think running back should be black, or you're only
considering white head coaching candidates because you are of the
opinion that white guys are better coaches than black guys.
That's lazy thinking, and it leads you to miss a
Christian McCaffrey who's a running back, or a Mike Tomlin
who is a head coach that otherwise might not be considered.

(01:13:24):
So how do you maintain and ensure that you are
considering the full scope of people for jobs in your
organizations because my argument is if you are leaving people
out based on their race, then you are creating opportunities
for your team to have blind spots, which ultimately leads

(01:13:46):
to losses. That ultimately racism is a negative, and that
the market based economy should get the best people in
the job. This is outkicked the coverage with Clay Travis
divisional round of the NFL Playoffs inching closer and closer.

(01:14:08):
We're gonna talk to the voice of the Titans as
their game inches closer against the Ravens on Saturday night.
We have been talking all about the NFL for the
first two hours of the program. We'll be talking about
the NFL for another hour of this program. Two new
coaches that have been hired. Carolina Panthers get UH Matt
Rule from Baylor and the Giants get UH the Judge

(01:14:33):
from the wide receiver special teams coordinator over the past
several years with the new England Patriots. UH. That leaves
only the Cleveland Brown job, with Mike McCarthy having been
hired with the Dallas Cowboys as well. That is three
white guys. There is a certain segment of the population
that is fired up because UH the NFL season hiring

(01:14:54):
off season is primarily going to be filled by white
head coaches. We'll wait and see what happens with the
Cleveland brown My bet would be that they are going
to go uh with uh with probably somebody who's gonna
end up getting fired, because everybody who gets hired by
the Browns ends up getting fired. But I think that
they will go with the offensive coordinator from the New

(01:15:14):
England Patriots whose name is immediately escaping me right now,
but everybody knows exactly who I'm talking about. This is
the problem you haven' talked about so many different names. Uh,
he's gonna get the job. That would be my guests
as who's the next Browns coach is going to be?
All right? So UH now there is a big point
of discussion about the head coaching UH positions and racial

(01:15:35):
diversity among NFL head coaches, UH, the Rooney rule in particular,
Marvin Lewis gets the interview UH down and Dallas doesn't
seem to be really that considered for the job because
it seems like they want Mike McCarthy. And then you
have Eric b Enemy, who's the offensive coordinator for the Chiefs,
and he doesn't get the job offer, at least so
far based on how things have gone. And by the way,

(01:15:56):
Josh McDaniels is obviously the guy who I'm talking about
from the pay Treat's who I believe will end up
being the head coach of the Browns before all is
said and done. So my argument here is an interesting one. Uh.
It is this NFL teams are so obsessed with winning
that race really doesn't factor in very much, in my opinion,

(01:16:20):
in their decision making. Let me give you an example.
If a field goal kicker is bad and he gets released,
and a team has an audition for a field goal kicker,
and they bring in five guys, and they interview those
five guys, and they take them out on the field
and they have them kick field goals. I don't think

(01:16:41):
there's a single person out there listening to me right
now that believes that a team is intentionally picking a
guy who is not going to be the best person
they think to kick field goals for them right Their audition,
their process is so highly competitive. They're trying to find
the best possible talent for that position to fill. And

(01:17:04):
we certainly believe that to be the case across the
entirety of the NFL that the goal is to find
the best possible guy, and if you don't find the
best possible guy, then you are going to lose. And ultimately,
the NFL is maybe better than almost any other sport
in America, a meritocracy, and that means that the best

(01:17:27):
man gets the job. Now, it's also simultaneously true that
NFL teams do not reflect what America looks like. Right
there's this big talk now of we want to be
diverse and inclusive, we want our teams to reflect what
America looks like. Where well, NFL teams are around black,

(01:17:47):
and only twelve percent of the population as a whole
is black. So NFL teams wildly over index for black
football players compared what they would do if they reflected America.
In fact, if an NFL team reflected America, it would
be around sixty white, it would be around percent Hispanic,

(01:18:11):
it would be around twelve percent black, you know, five
percent Asian, whatever the full population of America looks like
right now. And if you want to take it even further,
you could have somebody come out and say, hey, I'm
buying an NFL team, and my NFL team is gonna
perfectly reflect America. That means half my team, over half
my team, fifty one percent of my team is gonna

(01:18:33):
be female, is gonna be male. And everybody out there
listening to me right now would be like, well, that
would be ridiculous. Women aren't good enough to play in
the NFL. So if you had an NFL team that
perfectly reflected America, you might never score a touchdown for
an entire season. You could have a team that perfectly

(01:18:54):
reflects America, but it wouldn't necessarily score a touchdown. My
point is how it is not a hundred percent reflected
based on race. Right. If it were, then let's leave
women out of the equation and say, okay, well, no
women are good enough to play in the NFL. I
don't think that's sexist. I think that's true. Doesn't mean
that there might not be at some point in time

(01:19:16):
a woman who's good enough to play in the NFL,
but so far there hasn't been. So Automatically, when we're
deciding who's gonna play in the NFL, we're eliminating half
of the population in the world and saying they aren't
good enough to play football. They don't have the biological
construct to play football. They're not big, strong, and fast
enough right, by and large, doesn't mean it can't happen.

(01:19:38):
Doesn't mean at some point in time there can't be
a woman. But right now there has never been one.
And maybe one day they'll be a kicker. Maybe someday
else there'll be another position. Right now, there hasn't been one.
There hasn't really been a woman who's close right, Okay,
doesn't mean it can't happen. Does mean that I think
it's unlikely, okay, And the people that do get NFL jobs,

(01:19:59):
they tend to end up being huge percentage black, which
is wildly over indexed relative to the population. In other words,
if everybody was a hundred percent evenly talented in football,
only twelve percent of football players would be black. So
that means that like n or eight percent of all

(01:20:22):
football players that are black would lose their jobs, and
you would have white people, Asian people, and Hispanic people.
I don't think anybody's making that argument, right. I don't
think anybody out there is arguing that every NFL team
is not trying as hard as they possibly can to
get the best possible roster to win games. So wouldn't

(01:20:45):
the same be true for coaching. I understand the point
of the Rooney rule and wanting to make sure that
you have as wide of a tryout as possible. In
other words, that you want to bring out to use
my kicker example early, or you want to make sure
that you're bringing in as many people as you possibly
can who are potentially the best kicker for your job,

(01:21:08):
or the best quarterback for your job, or the best
running back or whatever the position is. You want to
make sure you're not missing anybody. That's really the purpose
of the draft, right The purpose of the NFL draft
is we need a standardized mechanism by which every single
person who wants to be able to be a NFL
player has an even playing field. We're gonna bring everybody

(01:21:31):
to the combine. We're gonna put you in your underwear,
we're gonna measure you, we're gonna get all your data,
we're gonna put you into the mix, and then we'll
let individual teams make decisions based on the draft that
they think will make their teams the best. If we
believe that NFL teams are doing all of that to
be as competitive as possible, and that the market is

(01:21:54):
going to dictate that they are going to be able
to find the best possible talent. In other words, it
would stun you if an XFL team were able to
be better than an NFL team, Right, the market would
not allow that to happen, because the best salaries go
to the best players in the NFL. Every NFL team

(01:22:16):
would wax every XFL team in this new league, because
the best talent is on the NFL teams, and every
NFL team is maniacally competing to win the best possible
manner that they can. If that is true, and you
believe it, and I think most of you do, for
virtually every position on the field, why would you not

(01:22:41):
also believe that's true for coaching. Now you can say
that teams are making bad decisions for coaching, just like
some teams make bad decisions when it comes to drafting
quarterbacks or drafting any position, drafting in general. But the
intent and the goal is to get the best possible
person in for that job, all right, for that head job.

(01:23:03):
And what's the person who has the head coaching job
has it? What's the person who has the head coaching
jobs job to get the best possible coaches underneath him
so that he can ensure that he is winning as
many games as possible, because that's the only way that
he keeps his job. And the only way that a

(01:23:24):
GM keeps his job is to have as good of
a coaching staff and as good of a playing staff.
So that's the approach that I come to it. If
I believe that the NFL is a meritocracy when it
comes to finding the best possible players, why would I
also not believe that the NFL is a meritocracy when
it comes to finding the best possible coaches? Now want

(01:23:48):
to bring in the crew. I laid out my argument.
I think that almost all of you would agree that
with me, that the goal of every NFL team is
to find the best possible players, and that the goal
of the head coach is to find the best possible
assistant coaches, and that the goal of the GM and
an owner is to find the best possible head coach.
So why would we believe that all of the best

(01:24:11):
players are getting hired and all of the best coaches
are not. Wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of the team.
Who wants to jump in first, I don't mind. I'll
say that I think it comes down to opportunity. You're
comparing corners and coaches. One is athletic dominance, which would
be corners playing in the NFL. The other is brains

(01:24:33):
and leadership. We know in our country that some minorities
still face different challenges getting their foot in the door.
I say, I'm cool with what you're saying, as long
as the entry level opportunities are equal at the amateur level. Well,
and I don't know that, uh, And and that that
is the question that I asked earlier. That is more
intriguing to me than the way the end result comes out.

(01:24:55):
It is what's the entry point? And so who gets internships?
Who gets these introductory seven thousand dollar a year jobs,
Like that's the part that I would be intrigued by, right.
And then the other question is in theory, if you
want to look at race. In theory, head coaching jobs
are open to everyone. Right, Black people only represent twelve

(01:25:19):
of the population. I think they represent around ten percent
of head coaches right now. Shouldn't the head coaching percentages
roughly approximate the overall black percentage of the population in general?
I mean, I'm just asking that quite like, theoretically, every like,
the number of people who can play quarterback in the

(01:25:39):
NFL is relatively low. The number of people who can
run a four five and play in the NFL is
relatively low. The number of people who have the brain
power to coach football is high. Right, there are a
lot more people who can you know, like, who can
coach a football game on the sideline wearing a headset

(01:26:00):
than can run a four five? Right, The percentage of
the population that can run a four or five versus
the percentage of the population that can stand on the
sideline and call a play is substantially different. So that
is intriguing. But my big question here is it would
be a big flaw in the NFL if there were
this huge collection of otherwise would be Bill Belichick level

(01:26:23):
coaches and they aren't getting opportunities. Eddie or dub in
Error or Roberto any thoughts on that, Like we all,
I don't think there's a single person out there right
now who disagrees with me that the NFL has the
best football players in the world because they pay the best,
because they go out and they find the best talent,

(01:26:44):
because they have the best development of that talent. Everything else,
it would be a big flaw in the NFL system
if they have the best players and they're not getting
the best coaches. In fact, it would be a huge
problem purely from a business perspective, because it would lead
to more losses than you should and the goal from

(01:27:05):
a business perspective in the NFL is to win as
many games as possible. I just think that this is
more of an ownership issue, is is it not? And
I'm not saying that the owners are necessarily racist, but
I can't help but refer to the quote that I
saw about Panther's owner David Tepper and what he said

(01:27:25):
about part of the reason why he hired Matt Rule,
and it was I mean, it was anecdotal and it
was humorous, but I think maybe it also speaks to
a larger point where he said he dresses like me,
and he had a job like me, and he had
to work for everything that he has gotten. So, in
other words, David Temper saying he relates to Matt Rule,

(01:27:46):
you know, because of there's certain things and maybe he
doesn't relate to the enemy. That's an interesting argument, But
the point would be that Temper has become a billionaire
by recognizing market inefficiencies, right. But I mean, if you
become wildly successful in this country today, you typically have

(01:28:06):
recognized a market inefficiency. And what I mean by that is,
let's take it outside of the world of sports. The
reason why Jeff Bezos is filthy rich and founded Amazon
was he saw the Internet coming and he said, oh
my god, there's gonna be a huge market place online
for people who want to buy things. And Walmart and
Target and you know, Kroger and all these other retailers

(01:28:30):
already exist and they have their advantage, but I'm going
to have an advantage on them. And I'm gonna beat
Walden Books and Barnes and Noble and all the book
retailers that would have existed back in And the reason
why I used that as an example is he recognizes
market inefficiency. So if you are an owner, and it's

(01:28:50):
an interesting point. If you are an owner, you have
been great probably in some way you could have inherited
your money, all right, So we can start there, like
you might have been born on third base and just
gotten wealthy by virtue of your birth. But most people
who end up owning teams and buying teams make the
money themselves, which means they've recognized market inefficiencies. So if

(01:29:12):
that is true, then you would theoretically be able to
take advantage of other owners racism to go out and
hire a guy that they wouldn't hire, which would lead
to you winning more games. In other words, leaving aside
the morality that I think most people would agree that
judging somebody based on the color of their skin, either

(01:29:34):
pro or con, is a bad decision. If you actually
were not racist and your other NFL owners were racist,
you would be able to hire a coach that they
might not consider, which would lead to you winning more
games than they would right, So that that that This

(01:29:55):
is why I believe in market based economics in general,
because if they're is a market inefficiency, you recognize it,
and you uh and you exploit it. I'll give you
an example here. Sean McVeigh may well have been a
market inefficiency. The Rams hired him and had such immediate

(01:30:15):
success with his offensive system that everybody else said, damn,
I want my own Sean McVeigh. It was like back
in the day when the Internet bubble was going on.
Everybody knew the Internet was gonna be a thing, but
maybe you bought pets dot Com instead of Amazon dot Com. Right,
pets dot Com goes bankrupt, entire thing blows up. Amazon

(01:30:38):
dot Com turns into one of the biggest businesses in
the world. Um, if you are willing to take a risk,
you may have a better result. And maybe that is
the case that teams are willing to take too. If
you want to build on your argument, Eddie, you could
make the argument that teams are willing to take bigger
risks with players than they are with coaches. And that

(01:31:02):
might that might be an interesting argument about why the
coaching universe isn't getting its best possible talent because there's
a risk averse nature in the NFL when it comes
to hiring coaches that doesn't exist when it comes to
hiring players. In other words, somebody might well hire Antonio
Brown as a wide receiver to be an employee, but

(01:31:23):
they wouldn't hire him to be a leader, right. Um,
And And that maybe is an argument, But my argument
in general is it would be a big flaw in
the NFL market if we all believe that every single player,
you know, whatever it is, the fifty three team fifty

(01:31:44):
three times thirty two, what is that hundred players? Whatever?
It is those are the best sixteen hundred or eighteen
hundred possible football players. But we also don't have the best,
let's say, two hundred coaches in the n FELL. That
would be a big flaw because you're paying all this

(01:32:04):
money to players and not getting the best coaches to
develop them. And I'm not claiming to know some easy
solution here, but a lot of people just look at
results and they complain about them. What I'm saying is,
if the NFL doesn't have the best two hundred football
coaches in the country, Leaving aside, you know the fact

(01:32:25):
that obviously a lot of the best coaches are also
in college football, right, because you can make a lot
of money in college football and everything else. But if
coaching is not getting the best four or five hundred
at both college and pros, then it's a broken system.
And the Rooney rules suggests that the system is broken
and it needs to be in some way remedied. We
don't ever have a Rooney rule, and never have had

(01:32:48):
a Rooney rule for on field jobs in sports, right.
There's never been somebody who says, like, oh, we need
to apply the Seahorn rule before you hire a cornerback
you have to ring in a white cornerback and see
whether or not he's good enough to play corner because
the assumption is in sports, the best man gets the job. NFL, NBA,

(01:33:11):
Major League Baseball, NHL, Major League Soccer, ep L, whatever
sport it is, there's no hiring requirement predicated on race,
and no interview requirement predicated on race. So what I'm
asking is, and I think it's a big question. I'm
not claiming to know the answer, just asking you guys

(01:33:32):
to think about it. Why do we all presume does
anybody disagree? Does anybody disagree that the best eighteen hundred
football players in America are in the NFL right now? No, yeah,
that's obvious, I mean right, And I don't think anybody
would disagree that the best, whatever the math is, four
hundred and fifty players are in the NBA right now. Now.
You might be on the margin, you might say, oh, well,

(01:33:53):
these fifty guys who are the next fifty best players,
they should be in the NBA, and maybe the bottom
fifty players in the NBA shouldn't have the contracts they do, right,
But in general they're fifteen NBA teams, the best five
hundred players in the world of basketball are in the NBA.
There's not somebody like I couldn't just go out right

(01:34:13):
now and be like, Hey, I'm going to create my
own pro basketball team and I can find twelve or
fifteen guys and we can go beat the Lakers or
the Clippers or the Celtics, whoever it is. Like that
would be impossible because the market works and we find
the best talent and the best players and they funnel
themselves into the pros. So if we believe that the

(01:34:37):
market works when it comes to players, why do we
not believe the market works when it comes to coaches?
And again, I'm not saying that I have the answer.
I'm just I want you to think about that. There's
never been a suggestion in my life that I can
remember where somebody said, hey, before the before the Lakers

(01:35:00):
are allowed to draft, we need to make sure that
they bring in the best Asian basketball players in the
world to interview them before they sign Lebron James for
free agency. So why do we presume, I think correctly
that all of the best players in the world find

(01:35:20):
their way to the best jobs in the world when
it comes to playing a sport. But we don't presume
that the best coaches get the jobs, because wouldn't it
be a huge market inefficiency and flaw if the most
talented people for coaching weren't also getting the jobs. Maybe
we should start a combine for coaches. I mean it's funny, right,

(01:35:43):
I mean what answer is? Because it's easier to quantify
for the average person, Like if you and I sit
and watch Lebron James play compared to an average college player,
Lebron James is a lot better than him, and our
brains are able to watch them play basketball and say, oh,

(01:36:04):
Lebron's better. But coaching is harder to quantify in terms
of success, which is why, like I believe that Bill
Belichick is a great coach, I believe that Bill Belichick
would not put bad coaches on his coaching staff because
that makes his job more difficult, and because I believe

(01:36:26):
that Bill Belichick knows who good coaches are. Now, you
can argue that owners are unqualified to be hiring coaches
because they don't have any clue what a good coach
actually is, and that that's why the system is flawed.
But the best way to figure out who good coaches

(01:36:48):
are is theoretically to ask other coaches who they think
are good coaches, and that's typically what the interview process
is about. So I just want you to think about it.
There's a lot of people who want to jump around
and arguments and scream and argue racism and everything else.
My my position would just be, if there is a

(01:37:08):
situation where the best coaches are not getting jobs, then
it is a structural flaw in all of pro sports
or sports in general. Wouldn't that flaw be a such
a massive flaw that it would undercut the entire purpose
of sports, which is to win as many games as possible. Anyway,

(01:37:30):
just think about it, Not trying to get y'all fired up,
just trying to think about it from an intelligent perspective.
Nobody questions the best athletes get the jobs across all
of sports. Why do we question whether the best coaches
get the jobs? Be sure to catch live editions about
Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six
am Eastern three am Pacific, joined now by Mike Keith.

(01:37:53):
He's the voice of the Titans. He called potentially the
death of the Patriot dynasty with Belichick and Brady, Maybe
maybe never playing together again. We'll have to wait and
see what happens in Foxborough. Uh, what was that vibe
like in the stadium, Mike did did Patriot fans seem
stunned that their season and maybe their dynasty came to

(01:38:14):
an end in that method, in that manner? Did you
get that vibe in the inside the stadium? They walked
out very quietly. It had started to pour rain, and
it was almost kind of fitting in that way because
they were I think they were dumbfounded that it was
over and the realization was setting in that maybe they

(01:38:37):
had seen something for the last time. And you know,
that's a that's a group of people that obviously through
the years with the Bruins and the Celtics and the
Red Sox, Uh, they have seen final acts and they
have seen those sorts of moments, but none like this
because they had never you know, since the Red Araback

(01:38:58):
days of the Celtic at least, they had never known
anything quite like this. Um. This has been I think
the most remarkable run in modern sports history. And you know,
we'll see if it continues. Maybe it will maybe at
want But to answer your question, Clay, yeah, I think
they got it I think they understood that this was really,

(01:39:20):
really significant and it had that feel of more than
just a loss. It did have that feel of more
than just a loss. On the other side, did it
have that feel of more than just a win for
the Titans? In other words, when the Titans made their
run to the Super Bowl back in the day, they
had the Music City Miracle that they pulled off, which
was improbable, and then they followed it up with two

(01:39:42):
more wins to get to the super Bowl. They end
up a yard short, as everybody out there who's an
NFL fan knows, but the win in the Music City
Miracle had a feel of more than a win, and
it kind of propelled the Titans franchise for the next
several years as a Super Bowl contender. Is this more
than a win for the Titans in the same way
that it was more than a loss for the Patriots? Yes,
I mean it clearly is, because what it is is

(01:40:04):
a credibility when at the very least, uh, there are
some people who you would listen to talking about the
game with the build up who would have thought the
Music City Miracle play was more likely than the Titans
winning in Foxborough in the playoffs, and I get it
because I mean, it just it just has not happened.
And so there's a credibility to this. There's a credibility

(01:40:27):
to the Mike Rabel program now more than what there was.
There's a credibility to the franchise being more than just
nine and seven four years ago. Now, how big I
think starts to be determined by this week. If you
can follow this, then then suddenly that becomes even bigger.

(01:40:48):
And I mean, let's face it, this is gonna be
a much bigger challenge from a football standpoint. I think
the Titans believed they would go in and win against
the Patriots. I don't think that was false prov otto
you probably can pick up sometimes on when it's real
and when it's not. Do you think the Titans expect
as a team, as an organization to go on the

(01:41:09):
road and beat the raven Saturday night? I think they
haven't in their mind that if they here, here's where
they were going into New England. They thought if they
went in and did their thing, if they went in
and played their games, they thought they'd win the ball game.
They were very confident in the game plan, They were
confident in what the coaching staff had put in front

(01:41:29):
of them. They believe in what they're doing. They certainly
believe in their running back and believe in their quarterback,
and the defense has a lot of confidence. So they
had that feeling. I think they'll go to Baltimore the
same way. Why would you not. Right now, you've won
eight of your last eleven. You know, you've played really

(01:41:50):
good football for the last two months. Even even in
the losses, you didn't really lose momentum. You know, you
didn't play just horribly to the point where said, uh,
you know, you're you're you're kind of doing something from
a consistent style standpoint on offensive defense that allows you
to travel. So I think they'll be very confident. I

(01:42:11):
think the feeling though, and and I mean I think
from the outside, the inside wherever is this is a
much better football team this week in terms of what
they are facing. These Ravens are historically good with their
twelve Pro bowlers and their rushing offense and what Lamar
Jackson has done. I mean, it's a it's a vastly

(01:42:33):
different challenge. You could be good this week, Clay and
still not win, but you better be good to even
have a chance talking to Mike Keith. He's the voice
of the Tennessee Titans. UH. One of the big issues
the Titans had on defense getting a guy back was
a Dory Jackson. He didn't practice yesterday. I don't know
what's going to happen there today. I don't know if

(01:42:54):
that was just letting him rest. What do you hear
about and what do you think about the health status
of the tight is obviously mark ingram At running back
as a big part of the story for the Ravens
on the Titan side. What do you anticipate in terms
of their health status. Well, the nice thing about a
Dory is he's veteran enough at this moment, having spent
three years in the league, that he's practiced a lot.

(01:43:17):
I mean, if he can do some things today, tomorrow
and Friday, even if he can do some things tomorrow
and Friday, he should be fine to give you a
number of snaps. And that's a and that's the key
is you just need to get some snaps out of him,
because he changes the dynamic of the whole unit. In
the secondary. He can play that outside position. They can

(01:43:40):
move other people around when they don't have him, they're
not just down one guy. They're down one guy, and
then they're lesser at two or three other spots because
they're moving people to cover his absence. So I mean,
it's a it's a huge deal for the Titans. Uh,
he is not the only and they won the other

(01:44:01):
night in New England, but his presence was a big
reason for it for the defense to have confidence in
running what they wanted to do. I feel like Derrick
Henry nationwide is still a little bit under the radar,
in particular in his NFL status, and that's because he
hasn't really had until last night or last weekend, a

(01:44:21):
really big signature game where people said, holy cow, this
guy something special. I know, he's the NFL's leading rusher.
Uh do you buy into that? And how would you
compare Derrick Henry to a guy that a lot of
people got to know over the years because of the
big games that he played in Eddie George, who was
another workhorse back in the Titan backfield. I think people

(01:44:43):
still know Derrick Henry better from Alabama then then there
than they do with the Titans. I'm like you, I
think they're starting to know him. Remember that game was
in prime time on Saturday night. The whole country saw
it million people, right, and that's that's really the first
time that's happened this season for Derrick Henry. All of

(01:45:04):
his work has been on regional games and things of
that sort. That the Titans last prime time game was
September the nineteen in Jacksonville on a Thursday night, and
if I'm not mistaken, that one was only on NFL Network.
So this team has not gotten that kind of exposure.

(01:45:24):
And now as the story gets out on Henry, more
and more people are seeing him nationally. The comparison to
Eddie George is very obvious because of the size thing.
I think this kid is a much more natural back.
He has moves, he has better speed. Eddie George's heart
was the most special part of his game, his relentlessness.

(01:45:46):
This young man has much more natural talent and the
breakaway ability, to me is the big difference. Eddie could
break away if he got in the open field. This
kid can get himself to the open field and and go.
He's he's really a special football player to watch. You have.
We're talking to Mike Keith. One of the most iconic
calls of all time with the Music City miracle. It's

(01:46:09):
now been twenty some odd years since that happened. Is
this win against the Patriots you've called all of them,
You've been calling him for over twenty years now. Is
it the biggest win that the Titans have had since
the Super Bowl run? No, the biggest win was the
Baltimore win after the two thousand three season in the playoffs.

(01:46:30):
This is the biggest win since that one because you'll
remember at that time we couldn't beat Baltimore, and you
know we had a better We took a better team
into Baltimore that day. Steve McNair was the m v P.
They had beaten. This five in a row had cost
us the two thousand we we still think super Bowl.

(01:46:51):
I think I think that game in Nashville on January seventh,
two thousand one was actually that year's Super Bowl, and
and so I think that standpoint that you know, there
was a lot to that, but this is the biggest
win since then. I think for the for the Titans,
We're going to figure out how big it is again
based on what happens going forward. The Music City Miracle

(01:47:14):
was twenty years ago today, and yeah, I know, right,
and I think the reason that it's as iconic as
it was. Is the Titans went twenty two days after that,
they beat Indianapolis, they beat Jacksonville, they played the Great
Super Bowl against the Rams. Without that play, the next
twenty two days just doesn't happen. And so now what

(01:47:40):
we see is is what comes from this from the Tits. Yes,
it's a it's a credibility when it's a big deal,
But where do they go from here? Do they take
that next step? They're trying to make an a f
C championship game for the first time in seventeen years.
So that's what this week is all about us. You know,

(01:48:00):
this would be a much bigger upset this week. Um,
this game in Baltimore would be a much bigger upset
than the win over New England was outstanding. Stuff is
always He's Mike Keith, voice of the Titans, twenty years
ago today, one of the most iconic calls in NFL history.
I didn't even know that music, City of Miracle, Thanks
my man. Thanks. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports

(01:48:21):
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I
Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen. Live
if they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it
high and short, gonna be fielded by Lorenz O'Neil at
the twenty five, teaches it back to y check. He
throws it across the field of dice and he's got something.

(01:48:44):
He's got something, fifty, he's got it. He's got it,
what he's got it and town touchdock Titans. There are
no flax on the field. It's a miracle Tennessee that
pulled the Titans twenty years ago today, great pull by

(01:49:09):
Danny g there the Music City miracle. If you remember that, Uh,
that game twenty I can't believe it's been twenty years.
I was there. Uh. The Titans made a run to
the postseason, ended up losing to the then St. Louis Rams,
Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce and company in the Super Bowl.
Yard Short Kevin Dyson tackled. Twenty years Uh that that

(01:49:32):
call happened. We just heard from Mike Keith, who is
the voice of the Titans. Fuh got a good day.
A lot of emails, uh and also text text messages,
not text messages, a lot of Twitter messages rolling in
Jim Rights. A good discussion on race and NFL coaching
has got a good argument here. It's interesting. Please consider,
coaches make decisions on players. When wrong, they get fired.

(01:49:54):
Owners make decisions on coaches. Owners don't get fired if
they're wrong. Explains why the meritocracy applies to players and
perhaps not coaches. What I would push back on is
the only reason, and that's a good argument. The only
reason to own a team is to win games, so
ultimately every owner is trying to hire the best coach

(01:50:17):
to win the most games, just like every coach is
trying to get the best players to win the most games.
It all comes back to a goal to win the
most games. So my argument in essence is, if you
believe in the fact that the best players get hired
to be professional athletes, why would the best coaches also
not be getting hired. It would be a real flaw

(01:50:40):
if owners are consistently hiring the wrong coaches to coach
the best players. Theoretically, an owner maximizes his revenue by
winning more games, and so the owner is incentivized to
hire the best possible person to run his franchise. I
think it is really an interesting question, and I don't

(01:51:00):
think they're easy answers people out there and are my
business like to tell you that there are oftentimes easy
answers to questions. And my position is if there were
easy answers, then those answers would have been adopted already.
I think oftentimes this turns into a political morass, and
it's hard to look at the data and sometimes see
the noise because of all the to see the data

(01:51:23):
because of all the noise around it. A lot of
fun stuff, a lot of good discussion. Appreciate all of
you great guests. Be live tomorrow hanging out. Appreciate the crew.
Appreciate you guys, Thanks for hanging out with us, Thanks
for all the good discussion points. Tomorrow We'll be back,
same bad time, same bad channel. See you at six am.
Also be live Unlock it in later today, making gambling
picks for the NFL games with you. This is OutKick

(01:51:45):
on Fox Sports Radio. This is Outkicked the coverage with
Clay Travis

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