KJ Live – Marc Spears

Subscribe, Rate & Review the KJ Live podcast right here. Marc talks to KJ about the time Kobe Bryant refused an interview because Spears was wearing an adidas sweatsuit, hosting the 2021 NBA Hall of Fame Enshrinement ceremony, why he became a sportswriter and some of the most interesting subjects he's covered during his illustrious career. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is kJ Live with Chris john Sallie and Critics
is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and
entertainment in this trade. Now Here's Chris Johnson. This is
kJ Live. Today's guests in the show is the Senior

(00:24):
India Writer, film producer and Folmic Chair the National Association
with Black Drummers as the NBA Senior India Radical Undefeated,
ESPN's digital platform, the focuses on the intersection with race,
sports and culture. Spears regularly breaks NBA news and publishers
long form content pieces on some of the lead's most
intriguing subject subjects. Our Guests has also covered the NBA

(00:47):
for more than twenty years, including eighteen NBA Off Our
Games and the two thousand and eight Beijing Olympics. The
San Jose State and l s U gradually has also
produced Katuna Cop in the Superdome, an award winning documentary
chronically the experiences of New Orleans police officer Reck Charles
and other city residents during their state in the Louisiana Superdome.

(01:10):
After Patrina. Please welcome to kJ Live. The legend Mark
Jay Spears is in the building. Y'all up, What's up, Bro,
what's up? Man now? Chilling Man like, yeah, y'all Bruins
hurt my heart the other day. Man, we had to
get you. And you see, I didn't even like I
just said you gottas you know what I mean. I

(01:30):
didn't even like, well, I have to act tough about it. Well,
that was our super Bowl, man. Any time you get
a chance to play like an L s U to
kind of get your season catapulta. Bro, we came, all
the stars got a line. Man. It was just a
testament to like us really being up for the game. Bro.
But you know your coach was talking stuff too that,
you know what he Yeah, he did that, but he's

(01:50):
a trojan head. He got some trojan ties, So I
didn't you know he Yeah, he was felling himself a
little bit. I didn't too much like that, but know
when I got it was interesting that day in l A.
My two schools sound they stay lost, the USC gave
it with their coaches last win before he got fired,

(02:12):
and then L s U lost. And I was supposed
to go down there because you hit me. You're like yo, yeah,
And I like, nah, man, that's too many people to
be around right now. And I blame COVID, But yeah,
I'm glad I ain't go oh man, No, it was good.
A would have fun seeing y'all, y'all, I would have

(02:32):
fun with y'all. Man, it was good times. Man. You
just came back from the Hall of Fame where you
you know, you you kind of hosted the whole situation
out there. Man. Talk about how special it was. This
is your second time doing it. Talk about how special
the opportunity was, and how special this Hall of Fame
class that's gonna inducted is well, I mean, you know,

(02:53):
these guys are our eraor right, these are dudes like
we we might have played against, you know, and perhaps
it's getting to the end of our era. So it's uh,
it's certainly been a special year because you gotta remember
the class of was delayed because of COVID. So I had,

(03:14):
you know, the honor the hosted in the spring. That
was Kobe you know, I just I missed him, man,
I wish he was here, just I could only imagine
what kind of Hall of Fame speech that was. But
to be able to be the host of that conference
press conference in the spring, and I covered Kevin Garnett

(03:35):
when he played for the Cultic, So KG gave me
this like like like you know what I mean, Like
that was from him. That's a lot of respect, you know, um,
And then you know it was just Tim Duncan was
in that class too, So that was certainly a special class.

(03:55):
And I think even with this class, these were guys
that I knew even better. Like I've spent a lot
of time with Ben Wallace recently doing this piece. Man,
I don't know if you got to see it with
The Undefeated. Our video team didn't. We went back to
Alabama and went deep with him, and so like Ben
during the press conference, man, he came up to me

(04:18):
and hugged me before he answered questions and he was
in tears. He was emotional. Man, he was emotional the
whole weekend. See Webb came up to me, gave me
some lug, gave me a hug. You know, I remember
being that arco interviewing him with the Kings when he
was probably at the height of his career. And then
Pierce I covered him when he won a championship, and

(04:41):
you know, me and him been friends for a while.
And that's that's my dude. Man, He's he's crazy he's
that crazy dude. Did a good way though, man, Like
you know know how Paul feels asked, you want to
know what's going on? And if you ass people, he

(05:01):
loved you, man. So that was it was. It was
beautiful to be a part of that class. I think
my only thing that was kind of sad was when
they said that Russell was gonna get um in for
coaches and getting going to Hall of Fame for the
second time. I was so excited about the opportunity to
interview Russell in the press conference, but because of COVID,

(05:25):
he counseled a couple of things, and he one of
the things he counseled was not doing the press conference,
so that I was like, I missed, obviously missed Kobe
and I got I didn't get the chance to interview Russell,
But the rest of the press conference was amazing. The
weekend was amazing. You know. It was good to see
Lebron in the building during the Hall of Fame and

(05:46):
show respected Chris Bosh. It was. It was great to
see Jordan in the building and then also to see
Russell on stage, Like when how often do you see
you know, Lebron, Jordan's and Russell all in the same place,
and I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I
would I would assume that as soon as Jordan was
done sitting next to Tony Kukoach, he was in the

(06:08):
pj or or the springfield right afterwards? What are the two? Yeah?
And and like Lebron, just if I was a betting man,
the reason why Chris Bosh was last and Paul Pierce
wasn't who's like a Celtics legend. It was because I
think there were time in Lebron's arrival, because all of

(06:30):
a sudden he just showed up like, oh, Lebron's here
at the end. I didn't know. I didn't know that, okay,
so he just like, why was Bosch last? Like Lebron
showed up, Like come on man, like Lebron is pretty powerful.
Uh Brown again, my boy Rob? You know, Robb the
security guru from the Lakers was there. So I was like, yeah, okay,

(06:53):
I know what's happening tonight. But you know, how often
do you get to see those three guys in the
same room. And that's what I was gonna kind of
touch on, Mark when you when you take us back
man to the origins of everything? When you first wanted
to be a sportswriter, did you ever think that you
was gonna be in a room with Jordan Russell Brown

(07:14):
on the stage introducing folks at all the things like
talk about the foundation of it all, how it started
for you? And you know what I'm saying, it's it's
interesting you say that because I knew I wanted to
be a sportswriter since I was in the seventh grade.
But you gotta remember, like, bro, when we were coming up,
like the internet was wearing diapers, like I remember what

(07:38):
I was that sold. They stay and they're like, yo,
we gotta give you this email. What the hell is
the email? And they're like, so you could send somebody
a message on the computer. I'm like, why not just
call them? Like I have a cell for that. I
got page them page to me. Baby. My point is,
like I really got into this to be a print reporter.

(08:02):
I didn't. I didn't go to school for television. I
didn't go to school for radio. I thought it was
dope to just have my name in the newspaper internet
going around, But you know, I first started dreaming about
being a sportswriter in the seventh grade, we had a
career day at sylvan Dale Junior High School and Saint
Jose and Bro, I swear the guy one of my

(08:26):
teachers must have been dating some dude from the Warriors, right,
because San Jose is like a good like forty miles
from Oakland. Their traffic bad in the morning from the
Warriors came to our Junior high and spoke, and he
was one of the people that spoke. So I went
to listen to him. I'm like, I'm gonna get a
free jersey, free tickets, bumper stick or something. Basketball. Ain't

(08:49):
that nothing? Right? So when I speak to kids, I
try to give himself down because I remember that. But
for some reason, he pointed at me and he goes, well,
what do you want to do when you grow up?
And this is bro, this is what I said. I
want to play for y'all. And he said, well, I'm
not gonna say that you can't, but if you don't
make it to the NBA, what are you gonna do?

(09:10):
And I said, well, I don't know. And I remember
because I was reading Sports Illustrated in elementary school. My
dad got me a subscription because how much I love sports,
and I remember seeing this stat that said less than
two percent of all college basketball players made it to
the NBA. And I was as real as the kid now,
like like, hey, let's a two percent that that ain't

(09:32):
my mind would be playing in college, not playing in
the NBA. But that's that was in my mind. But
the guy turned to me and said, well, my advice
to you, young man is if you can find a
career where you combine what you love most in life
with what you do best in school, you have a
job that you will be happy to be in every day.

(09:55):
That was hell of an advice, right, So my teacher,
Miss Thompson, the next day she said, we had a
write somebody, uh, write a letter. There were no email yet, right,
we had actually write a letter anybody we're in UM,
interested in UM and the field that we're interested in.
So I wrote a calmness by the name of Mark

(10:15):
Party from the Sounds and Mercury News and asked them
how can I be a sportswriter? He wrote me back,
sent me a letter and told me how to be
a sportswriter in the seventh grade. He gave me basically
a bible a roadmap from seventh grade through college on
what to do to be a sportswriter. So let me

(10:36):
ask you this smart for people out there aspiring sportswriters
right now, can you share some of the secrets of
this bible or just the basic foundation of it? Yeah,
you know he he told me to write. This was
on the letter right on the school paper. Now, so
if you score in the Silverdale Junior High library somewhere.

(10:58):
My first job, I tell people is I covered the
sylvan Dale Junior High Bears eighth grade flag football team.
I was going to their practice. I was writing stories
for the school paper while I was in the seventh grade.
He said, when you go to high school, take all
the typing classes you could take, which probably was the
most valuable thing I did in high school was take

(11:19):
typing classes type took Type of one, two and three.
He said, either joined the school yearbook or the school newspaper.
I joined the school newspaper. We had a guy from
the Sounds of Mercury News who ran our school paper,
came in once a week. His name was he was
a writer named McK van Balcomburg. So I got to
touch an actual writer in the Sounds Mercury News. And

(11:39):
then Mr Purdy said at the end, he said, when
you go to college, take as many internships as possible,
and also, you know, right on the school paper. So
I chased the college basketball dream. I went to three
different schools, but you know how crazy art lies are.
I still wrote on the school paper every single year.

(12:00):
I did internships every single year San Jose Metro for
Free Grand Rapids Press, Dallas Morning News. Was an intern
with the National Association and Black Journalists. So I wasn't
drafted in the NBA, but by the time I graduated
from Santa State, I felt like I was a first
round draft pick and being a sportswriter and a lot

(12:21):
of that. I give credit to Mark Party for writing
me that letter that you know, basically gave me a
road map and lit a fire. So at what point,
because you hoop in college, at what point did you
just say, you know what, I'm not tripping on hooping
no more. It's literally I'm literally gonna focus on my
intention of becoming a sportswriter or what are you doing?

(12:43):
Both from the day I showed up, so you got this?
Did you get a scholarship? Mark? Are you? So this
is we'll go back. I graduated from Andrew Hill High
School in San Josey. I was, I'll say as I
was pretty damn good school basketball player. Um, I wasn't

(13:04):
kJ you know what I'm saying, But but I did
get the better one of your guys, Chris Demon. Oh yeah,
six six six six posts. He was. He used to
go to Bellman College prep for the schools in Sunday
called Santa Teresa. I was a senior. He was a junior,
and I heard about this bad white boy with hops.

(13:26):
He was bad. Kevin was bad before he heard his back. Yeah.
So he had like a big top chef down he go.
Hear the story, he's gonna be mad. But the first
time we played him, I turned into the post and
I put the ball in the glass and he batted
my my shot off the glass. Bro, And I was like, Okay,
this dude can play these for real, Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

(13:50):
I started body on my body and we beat him.
I think we beat them twice again like the body, yeah,
you can't hang it. He didn't like too much physical
and I was that kind of player. I was like,
you were physical boy, Like sixteen and fifteen in high school.
I think my best game I had, Um, Piemont Hills

(14:14):
at thirty two points in two rebounds or something like that.
Oh yeah, yeah game. Um, but my grades were bad.
Um I had I broke my my leg my sophomore
year in high school, so that held me back a lot.
At two great players when they were seniors my junior year,

(14:37):
so I was like behind them. So it wasn't until
a you, um, before my senior year that people even
really knew who I was. But the one thing that
really you know, and I was like all leagues, Um,
I was third and them. I remember I was third
in m VP vote and I was really proud of
that because the two guys ahead of me, a guy

(14:58):
named Terry Martin who played at IONA and a guy
named Brian Bell who played a Chico. They were on
the team that won the league. In our league finished
in fifth. So I was like, if I'm third in
m v P and our team finished in fifth in
our league, that's that's the compliment from the compliment. Yeah.
And so I played in what it's called the Central

(15:18):
Section Central Coast Section All Star Game and with UH
which basically is from San Francisco through the Peninsula through
San Jose, Automa way to Monterey um and that was
a big honor for me. I played in the Pump
Classic Unsigned Seniors Classic. Um um Brent Berry played in that.

(15:41):
I remember that. Um. But I Columbia University wanted me.
Ivy League school, best journalism program in the country. Now
your grades, now, could you say you had bad grades?
But then you had worked on them to get to
the point where Colombia was rocking? What you no? This
is danc transcribe yet Oh I said they wanted me. Yeah,

(16:09):
I had a coach from sound They state that I
went and become an assistant there. Uh sny um Eric Sawney,
and I got a good a call to He reached
out to be recently and he wanted me to come
at a two point to g p A man at
a two point through g p A and at east
Side and the Ivy Lea School. And that's when I

(16:35):
woke up. That's when I woke up. I'm still crushed
by that. Yeah, I mean I didn't get a good
I got bad advice going into like I went to
a high school where there were a lot of kids
who were like section their kids to live across the street.
Um My family was I call it lower middle class

(16:59):
like I always had. I didn't have the newest, but
I had clothes, I had food, right, you get it. Um.
But I didn't realize that I needed a certain g
p A to go to college. Nobody told me that
in the beginning, and so when I found out it
was too late. Man, I had all these seeds because
they said you had needed a two point oh to

(17:20):
be eligible, and so Colombia wanted me. I didn't have
the grades. I got recruited by several different schools, sound
they stayed at that time. I was trying to get
me to walk on, but I ended up going to
junior college, and I went to Foothill College and Long
South those Hills, California, which was called the Harvard on

(17:41):
the Hill because their academics were really good, and a
lot of the UH students there ended up going to
Stanford or even Ivy League schools. And I was like, well,
I was woke up then realized I wasn't going to
the NBA I needed. I was using college to pay
for school and I love basketball, um, and I just

(18:02):
I just remember, man, that first day of class they
brought us in. They like to set person to your
right and left, they're not gonna graduate, like I got
scared straight I was. I think I was on the
Dean's list of first semester. I never made the Dean's
list again because I figured out that Yeah yeah, but
I mean, I was just always that when I played

(18:23):
UM went there for two years, Foothill College, and I
went to a Division two HBCU. I was supposed to
go to Tuskegee, committed there, and then the coach got fired,
so I ended up going to another HBCU and DC
called the District of Columbia played their first season. The
academics were horrible. UM. I ended up having a great

(18:45):
second half of the season, scored thirty two and what
would be my last college basketball game. But the coach there,
I remember him at as got rested. So he told me, man,
if you cared about basketball as you much as you
do that goddamn journalism, you be a hell of a player.
M And I'm like, coach, if the NBA was interesting me,
I wouldn't be here making up as think about it.

(19:09):
I was realistic, man, like I wouldn't be playing at
UDC coach, and I ended up leaving there and transferring
the Salley State and then it got crazy. Then you
got crazy, and so you graduated from San Jose State.
You what was your first gig as far as being
a sportswriter professional? Very first. My first job, I covered

(19:31):
Arkansas's football and basketball team for the World. Wow. I
think y'all just beat them? Yo? Yes, they just won
a championship in right, right? No, I think it was
because they beat no. No, yes, they wanted to and
they lost to y'all. Yeah. Yeah, right, So that's the era. Okay.

(19:54):
So when I came in, Corlos was gone. Scottie Thurman
was like all these dudes that left of the NBA
and then and I used to be on campus and
people be like corre less, correlets. I'm like, I'm not corless, Williamson,
you know, you say by you know what I'm saying
it say kind of Bill like, you know, like I'm

(20:20):
I'm prettier than like stop. But you well, AULSA was
because I basically lived in Tulsa and I just went
up for football games and practices. So I lived in Tulsa.
Actually Tulsa it's closer to Fedville, Arkansas than it is Norman, Oklahoma.

(20:42):
University of Oklahoma is so I would. I would drive up,
I go to all the football games, which was I mean,
like I covered the sec out of college, which is
not normal kids out of college, especially at that time,
especially a black kid for that matter. And um, but
I got no one Richard and man, my first job
I was covering Nolan, which was to this day one

(21:05):
of the the greatest things I've ever done in my
career to spend two years with Nolan Richardson, and he
took me under his wing man and really looked out
for me. And um, it was like after that, why
why do I need to be intimidated covering any coach?
I covered Nolan. He was the strongest personality as anybody

(21:27):
at any coaches that that I've ever been around, Right, Mark,
let me ask let me ask you this, particularly about Nolan.
Do you think that that time covering him, um for Tulsa,
for the Tulsa world, do you think that that shaped
sort of like the direction you would the direction you
went with things you were interested in, Like so like

(21:48):
Prince is the Undefeated. Some of the things that you
cover in the long form content that you present or
I won't say taboo subjects, but they're of the racial,
racial nature and their stuff. Do you just don't see
know where else really people talking about ever Dirk on
this Dirk and Whiskey's interracial marriage. I mean, you just
touch on things that you know kind of people will
think about. Do you think the time of Nolan Richardson

(22:10):
kind of helped shape that narrative or where you are
ready that way? I mean, look, I'll give Nolan as
my guy, but that started from childhood, man like just
dealing with racist racism. My family dealt with um. Like
my mom she couldn't go to nursing school in New Orleans,

(22:31):
uh that she wanted to go to because and this
was a Catholic school because she was black. So she
ended up having to go to a nursing school in St. Louis, Missouri,
where she met my father, because to go to all
black nursing school so she could follow her dream of
being a nurse. My dad in the nineties early nineties

(22:52):
worked for New United Motors Um, which was basically where
Tesla Dealership, Tesla Manufacturers and and Fremont, California in the
Bay and one of racism lawsuit because him and a
bunch of other black managers, we're training white people, and
the white people were getting promoted over him after they

(23:12):
learned the trade. Um. So you know, as a kid, um, sadly,
I dealt with a lot of racism um from people
of all races. I grew up around a lot of Mexicans,
I grew up a lot of around around a lot
of Asians. Um. I had a basketball coach who um

(23:39):
my freshman sophomore year, who we took me to a
Mexican restaurant. He goes, you know, they ain't fried chicken
in there, right, you know there, you know, watermelon in there.
And this is my coach and talking to a kid
like that. I remember I went into a Vietnamese restaurant
once it's on a hot day to get a soda
and the man went in the back and gave me,
came back and gave me a couple kiss like. So

(24:03):
it was there was stuff I was dealing with like
my whole life. But you know, my mom used to
be a part of this Black Nurses Association in San Jose. UM,
and we used to go to the Afro American Center
in San Jose, and I had to find time to
waste time, so I would go into the film room
I'm like ten and eyes on the Prize Zone that

(24:26):
that amazing award winning documentary where it basically talked about
the civil rights movement, and I learned everything about Martin Luther, King,
Malcolm X, black folks getting bit by dogs, the white fountains,
the Black fountains, um, the civil rights marches and all
that stuff and all these you know, horrible deaths and lynchings.

(24:49):
And I'm like ten years old learning all this stuff,
watching these movies, and it just had an impression on me.
And I think what was valuable about my college at
cation is it allowed me to It's one thing to
speak out, but it's nothing to know what you're saying
and you don't know how to say it eloquently. And

(25:12):
I think that, you know, college certainly helped prepare me
and and helped me to think out my thoughts before
I say them and be more factual and less emotional.
And so I think all these things when when this
job opened with The Undefeated, like there were some black

(25:33):
journalists that were scared to have that job. Like this
is like several years before George Floyd like, do you
want to go out there and talk about race? You know,
this is pre Trump, right, and you still got people
then like, ain't no racism? What are you talking about?
Ain't no racism? And there were a lot of people
that didn't like what I was writing. I'm writing about

(25:56):
the you know, there's so many stories about the lack
of black people playing baseball. Okay, I'm gonna write about
the lack of white players in the NBA, which is factual.
Like UM talk about racists issues, talk about what it's
like to be black playing for the Utah Jazz, Um
talk about the elephant in the room. And I've enjoyed

(26:18):
that this road. I've enjoyed working there. And obviously when
the previous president was there, there was probably a lot
more fire that it showed that the racism issues in
this country, the pain black people, the pain of people
of all colors, and people like yo, because they were

(26:40):
hating on the undefeated at first, but now they're like,
we should have had this long ago, this is necessary.
Then you've seen places like the New York Times and
l A Times, different websites, Uh, New York Times like
follow up and get some kind of undefeated kind of
like jobs. And so I'm honored that Kevin Merida UM

(27:02):
and Rain and Kelly hired me to be a part
of this because this is like the greatest job that
I've ever had, because it's it's bigger than basketball and
writing about who's traded or you know, the next trend
on your jump shot. No, I'm like telling stories about
real life and pain and racism that these players have

(27:25):
dealt with and telling their stories, like having just told
the Ben Wallace story recently and he used to pick
cotton and go to school with no shoes on, Like
Ben Wallace been out of the league for over five
years and Ben Wallace started playing this in the league
in NINETI but you never heard that story, you know.
So I'm blessed with the ability to have a job

(27:47):
and comfort from a lot of NBA players that they
will open up and release their pain to me. And
I take a lot of pride and and um, I
take a lot of care in that. Yeah, as you
should Mark when you when we talk about the subject

(28:08):
of black coaches and black executives in the NBA, it starts,
you know, it's kind of one of those topics where
it's like who do you who would you rather have
a black executive or a black head coach? Because the
exect the black executive, you know, may be more likely
to hire a black head coach, etcetera. When you look
at that conversation, what are your thoughts on that isn't

(28:29):
what's the level of importance of hiring a black executive
in the NBA versus a black head coach. I want
a black owner. The black olders or the older is
the one that controls all of that, right, because even
if you're the general manager or the president or whatever,

(28:51):
ultimately it's the ownership that decides what you wanna do.
You can have a bunch of great ideas, but if
the owner of the company says, nah, hey what about
this guy James Garfink, I like him, you know what
I mean? Like, you know, it's important that even if

(29:14):
you're in a position of power, that you're able to
implement what you want to do. And so I do
think though sadly being realistic, you know, Michael George's only owner.
We're not black folks ain't own them teams. People of
color aren't really starting to own some teams, you know,
nets kings Um. I think though that these owners are

(29:38):
starting to realize that's kind of interesting. You're seeing this
with like Dion Sanders too, Um, how black athletes are
responding to black executives and black coaches right now? I
think there's if I'm not mistake, in fifteen and seven

(30:00):
team coaches a color in the league, more than half
the coaches in the league of color now, which is amazing.
You know, we we have also have a Hispanic coach
and Latin X coach in Charlotte and and Asian coach
in Miami. We got to remember that too, like uh,
and like when you hear Devin Booker and DeAndre Ayton

(30:24):
saying that having a black general manager who used to
play in the league, having a black coach they used
to play in the league makeing it helps me out
because I can feel like I could communicate with them better,
right Like, Ultimately, I think change happens when I hate

(30:47):
to say it, like when when the players players got
to speak out more man like, I think if they
are impacted by, you know, having more black coaches and
executives and they got to say it, or like it
won't happen. I remember having a conversation with an All
Star who I leave nameless about are you involved in

(31:10):
who your team is hiring for? President. Man, I don't
want to get involved in that. I'm like, you're the star,
they'll listen to you. You have power. Two. At least
get somebody black in the building. I mean doesn't mean
like the white dude ain't the best person for the job, right,
but at least get us in the building and let
us convince them that we are the best person for

(31:32):
the job. That's that's what I think hopefully happens from
now on, is a true ability to show that we
are the most qualified, that we are the best fit.
That doesn't mean like it cancels white America from coaching
the black player. If the white coach is the best guy,
hire him. But if the black woman is the best

(31:53):
person for the job, hired he. You know what I mean.
And hopefully you know you got these mostly old school
conservative owners in this league, but they want success in
the same way. They don't look at color. The only
color they see what money is great? Right, If that

(32:15):
black dude is gonna help them win games and help
their players respond, yeah, that that you know woman is,
then I think they're gonna ultimately decide kind of like
when Alabama started getting black football players, like you want
to win I want to make money. So if the
black man or this woman could get us there the best,

(32:36):
and that's who I want to hire. And if that's
the case, and hey man, bro, that's what all we
should ask for, right is a a fair shape. Don't
hire me just because I'm black. Hired me because I'm
the best. And oftentimes we don't have an opportunity to
show that we are the best for the job. But
it's started to tie, it's starting to change a little bit.
It is. I think the opportunity to show is the

(32:58):
most important thing. The foot in the door I guess
I wanted to get from you was And obviously the
player that you mentioned remains nameless. But do you feel
like some of the sentiment that he shared. You think
most of all the all star caliber players in the NBA,
outside of you know, obviously the outspoken ones that we
know about, you think they a lot of them feel

(33:19):
that way. They don't want to speak up in one
offul Feathers, I think that a lot of them don't
realize their power, right or um they're too young to
really understand what influence that they could have. UM. A
lot of times you don't realize it to your older

(33:41):
in your career, and you don't have that power anymore.
You don't have that kind of influence anymore. I mean
obviously in Brooklyn, you know, Durant and and Kyrie had
power to influence the hiring of Nash. Right, Um, I'm sure,
respectfully I say this little lebron James had had influence

(34:04):
on who gets on that staff, Like I'm sure he
Fizdale is there for a reason, right absolutely, or but
I'm sure he had influence on had who the head
coach is gonna be like, but he understands his power,
he understands his strength. Um, Chris Paul is close with

(34:28):
you know, Monty and with James Jones, so that played
an influence on him wanting to go to Phoenix and
wanting to stage in Phoenix. You could have left, he
could have left. Um, but I do think that oftentimes
when you're year old dude, you and we're in this

(34:52):
world where we got more money than we ever thought
we were gonna make, you're not really thinking about how
to you know, the bread is a and how you
can influence that because you can't tell me that, Like
if Steph Curry goes into a room that he can't
tell the Warrior's front office. We need more black representation here,

(35:14):
We need more people color here, you know what I mean? Yeah,
like every superstar has that ability to make an impact,
and I do think that. You know, Hey, look, man,
I could beat the ground all the time about the
lack of black coaches and executives. You do the same.

(35:35):
But ultimately we're just we're not making a decision. But
I know, like when Lebron was in Cleveland, boy, they
were walking on egg shells both times he was there.
When it came time for him to make a decision
about his future, he had power there. All these players
have power, but will they exercise their ability to use it?

(35:57):
But when they lose that power, And here's another thing
that these guys got to think about. They think they're
gonna play forever and they're not. But then when you
look at a lot of these coaches, they're not former players.
So if you fight for former players to get these jobs,

(36:19):
now that pipeline, you open up the pipeline and potentially
open up the ability for you to have that job
when you're done. And that's what I'm saying. Then they
don't they're not thinking like that. They're thinking today. The
one best thing they have done, the players have done,
I think in the last ten years in terms of
the future, was getting medical insurance. Your father who played

(36:44):
in the league over ten years, right, he and his
wife and his young daughter. I mean, you're good, but
they got the best of medical insurance, very very good,
very good. Yes, the best of medical insurance. Right. So
that's something that Chris Paul did that was amazing, Right,

(37:06):
it was get that. But they got to remember, like
the same way you wanna, which is good with the
minimum contracts in terms of letting veterment veterans stay in
the league longer by paying half their salary start getting
we we shouldn't see Jerry Stackhouse at Vanderbilt. He should
be coaching in the NBA, right, we shouldn't see but

(37:30):
Jowan should be coaching. He played it, he paid his dues.
How does Patrick you and not get a chance? Right?
But you see a lot of coaches, and this is
all due respect who never played one game in the league,
who've got an opportunities. And I'm not saying they didn't
pay their dues and get their opportunities. But the players.
You gotta protect this league for you in the future too,

(37:54):
and you I've seen players who have big names that
can't get in. I'm remember Bro. I remember telling Robert Patt,
my god, Robert pat we had this big debate about
whether he should coach in the G League or not
as an assistant, and I said, Rob, just get in
the door, man, just get in the door and see

(38:14):
what happens. And then Rob ended up getting in the door,
ended up making it to the NBA. We gotta get
him back in as a coach because he was at
the Washington staff. But a lot of NBA players don't
want to do that, don't know, they don't know, they
didn't want to put their foot in the door. The
start at the ground floor type of role. But do
they send the ranks pretty quickly? Mark, I've seen the

(38:36):
ones that are willing to grind. They raised the rise
in the ranks pretty quickly. And then they might feel
like like Kenyan Martin, who I think hasn't tremendous basketball
mind all, he's too tough, too crazy, you know. God
bless the Nuggets for giving the opportunity this summer, but
he needs to be a coach. He's got a well now,

(39:00):
Rashid Wallace and we'll let him go to Memphis. Bonds, wells,
he'll go to some any like how did they were
young guys with a lot of power. Who but you
can't tell me that those guys can't come into the
NBA and help somebody. What's interesting is that the guys
you just named from Shed to bondsi Um to who

(39:23):
else did you name? You name somebody but Martin kmart
all three or like we're in the league where like
fiery tough dudes didn't take no ship. You know, those
type of cats. So it's like you think cats are
afraid to bring a dude like that in at the
helm or or bring you in on the staff because
like that in any capacity. Like I think one of

(39:44):
the great under the radar hirings this summer was Nick
van Exell being hired by Atlanta. You know, I love
it Quick Now Quick was an asshole when he played
for the Nuggets, and I love him and he respects us.
He will tell you that he can I say that
I'm sorry he was asshole. He was. He was tough

(40:07):
to deal with. He had a big ego, but he
was a bad ballplayer. Now you saw it in l
A he got buckets. And if it wasn't for like
a guy named maybe John Stockton, uh, perhaps we would
be and Gary Payton, we would be talking about Nick
more Um. But Nick was an amazing dynamic score and passer.

(40:32):
So now, how can we bring Trey Young to the
next level? They brought Quicken and I think Quick perhaps
was held back as a coach a little bit because
of the past. Man, He's a totally different dude. This
dude is more worried about his coffee, how much sugar
he got in it, because he liked cold brew coffee.

(40:52):
Then yeah, he no more. Quicks basketball mind is brilliant,
and Atlanta was smart enough to realize that maybe Travis
Slink knows them from quicksdays and Golden State, the quick
time he had with the Warriors. How could I bring

(41:12):
Tray up? Let me bring somebody in who was bad
like Tray that could just work with him and make
him better, which is under so many former players now
that even if you use them in an assistant coach
role like can help teams, could help young stars right now.
And also you teach them the perils of how your

(41:34):
your immature young mistakes could be held against you. Young fella.
Let me. You know how the young fathera back learn
from me. Young They need more of those guys in
the locker room, those old heads, no quote, hey, no
question about it. That's how you learn and figure out
how to move in these rooms and these circles of
these pros. You know, it's the young fella. They put

(41:56):
the arm around you, start talking and stuff, and they
just try to give you some game. Here's here's the
thing that I wanted to ask you, and it kind
of goes along in this same sort of will house.
It's about mental health, do you think like so, mental
health can kind of take on a bunch of different
faces and shapes. It can be an issue that's personal
or a larger or whatever. But I feel like we

(42:18):
define it as a negative too much, right as far
as it in terms of our athletes, where positive mental
health isn't necessarily focused on. So just like this point
about having a mentor that will be in your ear,
an old head that's trying to teach you positive ways
to deal with stuff, cope. Whatever it is that you
guys are talking about. How come that's not sort of

(42:41):
pushed more or talked about more In particular in the
NBA mentorships that have to do with mental health, you
know what I mean starting with mentoring. Want one thing
that Pikey Vandoy actually Acknowledgy made a mistake on was
Mellows rookie Year. You'll you'll laugh at this story. Mellows

(43:04):
rookie Year. Canby was on the team. Yeah, but the
roster was a lot of young dudes and a lot
of dudes that trying to hang on right, and so
after one of the practice Canby goes yo, Julie's junior
hearing goes birthday. I don't know if you remember Junior.
Bro I was out there, Mark Mark I went to

(43:25):
a mini camp. So I remember, Junior. This is when
mc dice raith after this is after them, Okay, okay, no,
this is this is this is Mellows rookie year. Oh,
this is oh oh three, this is oh three. So
when did you go to mini camp with the nugget?
So I think I think it was so Kiki Clyde, Drexel,
Louis damp I was an assistant. So I was there too.

(43:46):
Bro I went for like a little mini camp busted. Yeah. Yeah,
Croke was around. He was on the bike was on
the bike. You don't remember me. I know you was there,
but that's dope, that's dope. I need to see some

(44:07):
some preseason stats. Yeah we do. We were in the
Powder Blues. But so Mellow comes in Junior Harrington's birthday
and after practice can be goes all right, I need
all the rookies to sing Happy birthday, Okay, Mellows like
I ain't singing. And this is when they used to
let us in practice, Like we used to be able

(44:28):
to go to like practice the whole time and like
show up when the players were starting. And I loved it.
I hated it. I loved it because we had to
be there for three hours. But then I started learning
so much more and why guys, certain guys who weren't playing,
who had a great or ethic, who was lazy, right,
and Mellows like I ain't, I ain't, I ain't singing.

(44:49):
And I was thinking if Mellow had gotten drafted by Detroit,
and if you would have said that the bench she
chaunce ripped, Hey, they would have been on his head.
Canby was by himself, right, because there was really like
a lot of veterans of the team, and he's like
all right, man, And all of a sudden, so the
other rookies are saying a happy birthday, Mellow was beatboxing. Okay,

(45:18):
he was beatboxing happy birthday. Right. So the point of
the story is at that point I was like, oh,
Mellows running the team. He's running the team. Like if
he's basically saying I ain't doing this and the Vets
let it go, then he was running the team. And

(45:38):
that was like the biggest mistake that Nuggets had Because
Camby was a starter, he didn't have time to worry
about Mellow, right, but they they Kiki almost signed Lofonso
Ellis to basically be in the locker room and keep
an eye on him on Mellow, and Mellow said he
wished that he had had some VET that he respected

(46:02):
that had that time to kind of like be in
his tail, make sure he got in early left leg work,
kept an eye on them when they went out because
you know, the team players typically went out together. He
didn't have that, and I think that's why I had
a lot of struggles early in his career. And I
told him that Lofonso Ella stories like, man, I wish

(46:22):
they would have did bring somebody like that in. So
I do think it's important for teams, especially with young stars,
to have some older player at the end of their
career that could be in there and help and got
him and have time. Camby didn't have time. Camby was
trying to live his life. He was in the peak
of his career, right. He didn't have time to worry

(46:44):
about mellow. Same way being Kobe, Like luckily he had
a Byron Scott. But I was around that team a
little bit because I was at the l a daily
news man checking them. Dudes didn't have time for Kobe
at the practice back then it was in the Century
Club bro the Gate Guarden. Yeah, like quick, your dad

(47:07):
time for him. You know what I'm saying. Dudes are
still there. They was like we had we had these
streets he was and you know, tally they look at
your age. Now they ain't sneaking you in there. You
can't get the licensed. So but think it was good
for the Lakers that they did have Virus Scott there,

(47:28):
and so it's important that every NBA team, I think
which helps a young player stick around has an old head.
To the other part about mental health, I actually think
there is better mental health help than there ever has
been in the NBA when you were coming up, when

(47:50):
you were trying to make the Nuggets, that didn't exist. Remember,
like the Nuggets did have this guy who was like
the brain doctor or something like that. Yeah, l A,
he could tell your personality. Yeah, but but did he
really help you? Did he did he understand what a
black young black man was going through? Right? It was

(48:10):
just it was it's identification. But it wasn't any type
of solutions that were offered, you know what I'm saying.
But but but no. But my point is every team
now they don't publicize it, but pretty much every team
now has their own on call or full time UH psychologists.

(48:31):
Several of them are black, UM, which I think is important.
So like several more black females, which I think the
players open up to more. It's like they're talking to
their mom, their sister. There aren't. Yeah, And so I
think they have resources now that when you were, you know,
getting in the NBA working on getting an NBA did

(48:54):
not exist. I don't think they really existed ten years ago,
but they do exist now. There is help now if
they wanted, UM, and that some teams do a much
better job than others. But there. I do think that
there is an ability to get help quietly that uh,
we probably don't see. I've been wanting to write a

(49:15):
story about it, but a lot of these teams don't
want their people to talk. M Well, it's it's a
delicate subject probably, you know, as far as that type
of thing. But I do. I do like the fact
that they are making steps to address and at least
there's resources because if you remember back in our day
when we hooped, it was a major stigma associated with
mental health and it was something that you know, you
guys wouldn't want to talk about, especially going through stuff

(49:36):
like black black men in particular, like we you know,
because we already yeah, you already, don't you know how
many of us have PTSD from just like they saw
growing up. Yes, man in the streets. It's a real thing, man,
And and to cope on our own, to be able

(49:57):
to cope without this stuff. It speaks to the characteris
I can see it, like, you know, we still be
trying to do the right thing. That's the craziest part
of it. And laugh and tell these stories now, but
oh man, they had this drive by or I was
in this club and he's dudes fighting. Man, it sounds
funny to talk about it down or some of the
gang stuff you saw growing up in l A. Yeah,

(50:17):
it was wild, Like shoot, man, I remember being in
high school and getting chased five five dudes from East
Palalto and had that like hide in the gas station
to keep from getting beat up, like the funny the
funny story Bob Myers always talks about. Tells us back
at u C. L A. Was like, yeah, man, my
dad dropped me off at this court in East Palo

(50:38):
Alto and I had to go hoop and it was
like one of the craziest experience he had. He gave
some he gave some respects, So I understand what East
Palo Alto is all about. Bro. There was one time
we got you know, because we used to drive around
the different parks, you know, five us at a time,
two cars. You know what I'm saying, Get yo. You
had to be deep. You had to have a lot
of people with you, and you had to be you know,

(50:59):
you couldn't really run your mouth like that because you
never knew who has some moan what you know she was?
Your dad taught us in the movie Man Catch Up
about about even go get another gun and that was
that was hilarious. But man, um, staying on that sort
of mental health, I wanted to get your take. This
is somebody that works in the league, public league for

(51:19):
so long, so you've watched short of the evolution of
this cannabis use amongst NBA players as a way to
cope with different aches and pains when they're not comfortable
to deal with traditional medicines, et cetera. I know the
league they banded it in what nine and then along
with the dress code to sort of re shift the

(51:41):
image of the NBA, But now it's at a different place.
What are your thoughts on the cannabis in the bubble? Oh?
I heard, I heard. I think I went into the
and uh towards the final days of the bubble when
a lot of the team most teams were liminated. I

(52:01):
swear it was a big old package of weed that
was like a box full of weed that somebody just
didn't pick up. Oh my good, it was just stinking
up the whole that was just it was well packaged.
You I mean, like you could have spell anything, but
you do what it was. It's like, man, look, man,
I'm I'm not a h somebody that smokes weeds and

(52:22):
I never have, uh, but I live in Cali and
anybody that. But I love a glass of wine. I
think you know that. Who am I to tell somebody
not to smoke weed? Right? Like my weed friends, Wine
is more dangerous. And I'm like, brothers smoking weed, I
don't that makes you do it? Man like? And I

(52:45):
think those we're in a progressive state, like we we've
always liked so in the rest of the world, we
we we We hadn't thought twice about weeds since in
the nineties, bro, since Dr Dre came out, Like we
don't care. So it's kind of like funny, like it's
still a big deal now, Like it's funny because now

(53:10):
it's called cannabis. You call it cannabis. They had to
change the name, you know, they had to change it.
Do you remember cannabis? Cannabis is cannabis. We we have
cannabis delivery. I see these billboards. I'm like, no, y'all
got some people. Y'all y'all to arrested all these brothers
for selling weed on the quarter. We like Stephen A.

(53:33):
Smith say, we all these brothers went to jail for
selling weed. But now you legally can deliver cannabis to
somebody house. Come on, man, come on and let them
brothers out of jail. Right. But it's uh, yeah, I
think it's uh it's funny because I actually you see,

(53:54):
if you remember this, remember when Mellow got in trouble
for bringing got usaid for bringing weeat on a plane
when he was with Denver oh Man. Yeah, and he
had a backpack that has some weed in it, and
he had this dude name Slim that took the rap
for him because it was he said it was Slim's backpack.

(54:17):
I've been wanting to talk about about this because this
is like funny to be it's funny now, well it
was like this big deal, but Melo had weed in
his bag and some dude named Slim. I think Slim
got a nice check. You know, it took the wrap,
which is like now you think about it was just silly.
It was stupid, like he had to weed in his bag.
And then now he has a weed company, like like

(54:42):
it's so but it was funny, Like fifty years ago,
Mellow basically almost went to dang jail for having weed
in this bag, and now he's haking money off. And
it's amazing to see all the athletes that are involved
on the Canada side, on the professional level that a
making money off of it. Of a Harrington's Matt, you know,

(55:06):
these guys advocates, their advocating for the right reason that
when you hear him talk about it, man, you you
really get an understanding that they really took take it
serious and they're really concerned about, you know, the health benefits.
And I'm glad they're making money off of it, man.
And there they're experts, try it and test it. Okay,

(55:27):
you had to go like learn about They don't need
to get to those class they don't. They can tell
you anything you want to know about Eddie ka. Oh
that's so they know more about we did they do?
Who just say a lot? That'd be the crazy part.
But yeah, Harrington, who was way ahead of the game.
He's been ahead of it. He's killing it. And I

(55:49):
hope that any NBA player who decides to invest in
something and invest in now, yeah, invest in one of
your guys man, like absolutely, Like, hey I did, I'm
glad AI teamed up with him. Yeah, yeah, Mark, I
wanted to get an understanding of why you went back

(56:13):
to school and decided to get your master's degree in
sports management. I know you, you you graduate from LGU in
two thousand and eighteen. Why did you do that? As
you're already established, you know, so why would you add
that to your repertoire um? You know. One of my
favorite things I got from former Nuggets head coach Jeffers
Delic is always stayed two steps ahead of the posse hmm.

(56:35):
And I kind of felt like, I don't like just
standing still. I always want to better myself. My mom
has a master's degree, my sisters has a master's degree.
I don't like them being ahead of me either. I
got an a a degree from Foothill College. I got
a bachelors from Sante State, and I've always wanted to

(56:57):
have one. But I wanted to better of myself. So
how could I not only get my masters but better
myself in the process. And I thought that in my
line of work, learning more about the business and sports
and I already did know certainly could benefit me. Um.
So that's why I decided to go into sports business management.

(57:19):
Believe it or not, I actually tried to go to
Columbia for a second, and uh, just the right a
rug from high school and they got me in or
but it was like I had to take the g
R and it was expensive. And you know, my families
from Louisiana. My parents live in New Orleans. I always
had New Orleans ties and loved L s U and

(57:41):
the Tigers spent summers and Bunny fram Park in New Orleans,
and you know the Seventh Ward in the Night War.
You know the gumbo and you know eating you onion,
hucka puck is you know hucka puck is? No, I
don't know what it's like the Dixie ups and they
used to put kool Aid in them and freeze them,

(58:02):
and the White Lady used to something tense cent. We
used to go get the hunder parks. So like I
have a lot of like a lot of people think
I'm from New Orleans. I'm from the Bay. I can
tell you how to get the Chopoltoola Street, like news
is my second home, right, And so I just started
talking to the L. S U people, and they had
this great sports business program and they're like, yo, what's

(58:24):
your experience. They waved to g R E for me,
which was like cool, I love that's like that they
wanted me to be up like they recruited me tell
shoe like recruited me to be a part of it,
to be a part of that program. And man, it
was a great two years. Shout out to Professor Martinez.
Man I learned a lot. And man, the football program

(58:47):
is like embraced me. The basketball programs embrace me, they
said me swag like the best. They stayed. Football has
embraced me too, and they like they still love me,
and they stayed. But I got in footy of college,
they got some like all of them take care of you.
But l s U like embraced me as a family um.
And I learned a lot. So I thought that there's

(59:10):
gonna be a day when perhaps I don't do this anymore.
Maybe a team might want me to work for him,
or a league might want me to work for him
in a senior role, or I could be a professor.
So as you know, like I can't teach it U
c l A without a master's, right, I can't teach
it Sundse State without a master. So it's me trying

(59:32):
to stay two steps ahead of the posse. And that's
why I wanted to get my master's degree and It
wasn't easy. It was hard, but I was so proud
when I got it, and you know, I ended up.
I went to the ceremony even though I did it online.
I went to Baton Rouge with my mom and she
was really proud. And my now wife we went and

(59:55):
you know it's funny, Like we get there, I'll tell
you the story real quick, and I'm driving up in
this brother comes up to the window and he goes,
what's uping, man, how are you doing? Man? I'm like,
hey man. He goes, Mark, you don't remember me. I
met you at the All Star Game in New Orleans
and you were really really nice to me. I was like, okay, good,

(01:00:16):
good to see you. He's like, yo, I'm working the
l s U Football um department. You want to come
in and take pictures in your cap and gown in
a in a in a locker room. Oh in the
football He said, we got recruits and you know the recruits.
You're taking all those pictures and stuff. He's like, you
could take them with you're camping down, Like yeah, I

(01:00:38):
was supposed to be standing in the line getting ready
for graduation. Bro. I go on the Tiger Stadium, going
the locker room. You know how like all the players
take the recruiting like, I'm in the I'm in the lockers.
I'm a body's footballs. It's like all the purple and yellow,
you know. And then I'm taking all these pictures like
I gotta go get ready for the graduation to go.

(01:01:00):
You don't want to going to feel I'm like, what
do you mean? He's like, you can take some pictures
on the field, Dan so man, I came out this
video of it. I hit the wind bar, I'm in
my cap and gown. Yeah, I go on the field,
that Tiger Stadium by myself. They take pictures on me.
We walked back in. Guess who's standing there that that

(01:01:23):
was wrong? Jeez. So, I mean, he had no idea
of who I am. Probably it was just fine. You
don't need to know who I am. He meets my
mom and they start talking about um my mom. My
mom is a saint. But I think she lied. She
told that old drink I prayed for you before every game.

(01:01:50):
Look at her like you do for L. S U
Football before every game. That's funny. I would go with it,
and she said, yeah, you dude. She's like, you're Christian.
But he's like, yeah, they started talking religion at Odron
and my mom walked onto the football field start having
this long conversation about religion. I gotta graduate. Mom, come back. No,

(01:02:18):
I left her at on the football field and took
off and we and they ended up watching it everything.
I don't know. I must love that she talked to him.
Don't say nothing about it, old, no, No, that's a
great story. That's a great sty But l you showed
me a lot of love. But they showed me love
with that the education, and I feel like I know

(01:02:41):
a lot more about the business of basketball, about the
business sports, and like it's funny when we talk about
we wanted to get in the teams moving and stuff
like that. But I started breaking down to my friends,
like why this makes sense, Why this doesn't make sense?
TV markets and revenue sharing and all, like damn you
on it, hey, come on, bro love it. I love

(01:03:05):
to hear it. Mark Man. That was that's that was
a great story. Um so, man, we're about an hour in. Man,
I just got really one more one more comment from me,
broh that that I wanted to grab and I and
I and I asked everybody that I've interviewed over the
last six months, the same question has been about seventy
five different interviews. Um, if you could just share with

(01:03:25):
us your most memorable story about Kobe Bryant. Huhm wow,
Well that's something I can't put on the ones we
can't share the ones we can can. I tell to yes, please, UM,
please do One time I went to interview and he

(01:03:51):
took care to take care of me. Chirst man like
I would meet him talk via email, and I'm big
on email because players change their phone numbers all the time,
but they don't change their emails. That's that's a little
gift for the journalism people listening. They don't change their email.
So an email, Hey I'm coming to town, him coming
to practice. I would go to media day and he

(01:04:13):
would always he talked to everybody, but then he would
put me on the side for ten minutes and I
remember all the media people be looking at me, pissed
and everything. I don't hate to player hate the game.
Then used to take care of me. Man to break
one on one interviews, and so one time he was
with my man Nico Harrison. Shout out to Niko, congrats
on the Dallas job him and Nico's Niko was always

(01:04:36):
by his side. They're leven practice amount of practice that
I go to interview being I said, cold, you got
a couple of minutes before you leave, and um, he said,
you know, not not for you today. I'm like, what
are you talking about? Bro? I had this beautiful Adida
sweats and though, yeah, you know, we like big dude,

(01:04:58):
so it's all just um that fit right, you know.
But it was this school. It was this black Adidas
sweat suit with the black shoes a match. I was
looking good at that day and it fits right. It
was almost like it was Taylor made it fit that good.
He's like, I ain't interview. I ain't doing an interview
what you're wearing. And I'm like why He's like really

(01:05:20):
dog and he and he's Nike dripped. He had the
toe and it hit me like damn. He did have
a bad break up with Adidas. Like he's like, I'm
just not doing that in and I needed to be bad.
Like come on, man, He's like, look, this is what
you're gonna do. I said, what's that you're gonna go?

(01:05:41):
I'm gonna give you the interview, but when you go home,
you're gonna throw all that away and you're gonna take
a video of you throwing it away, and you know
I wouldn't see it in the trash, that sweatsuit in
the trash, and I need proof to you threw it away.

(01:06:02):
Do you want the interview or not? I was like, yeah, bro,
I want the interview. So I did the interview and
literally when I went home, I had somebody videotaped me
throwing it down. The trash shoot wasn't even had the
trash can. It was a trash shoot because I lived
in an apartment in jack London. That was it for

(01:06:23):
It wasn't coming back, It wasn't coming back. It was
in a trasho. You didn't want going in that trash.
It was the apartment complex trash. How did that make Mark?
How did but how did that make you feel? Was
it worth it? Mark? Yes, at the end of the day, yes,
any being interviewed at that time, yes. And what I

(01:06:44):
learned from that is there's another little journalism tip. Anytime
I interview a player, I either put my cold hands
on because the co hands is like remember in South
ceter of the hood, like East Side Saddle say he's
pa you better know what colors are a different neighborhood.
But if you wore a white, if some like blue jeans,

(01:07:06):
you can probably get away anyway, right, blue jeans and
blue jeans. Right. So my point is I would wear
shoes or clothing that if I talked to Curry, I'm
wearing under armor, like if I'm talking to Dame or
where Adidas, And if I talk to Draymond Durant and

(01:07:28):
wear a Nike, like, I wear it based on who
I'm talking to because I learned about what lesson. And
you if you think these dudes is not following that,
you got another thing coming. You got another thing coming.
So now that's that's the lesson I learned from that.
Like I'm very like I interviewed CP yesterday, but I
had Cohens, So that was I was neutral, right, stressed

(01:07:51):
up them dudes, pay attention to that. Um. The only
other story, I we got time when you gotta ruin. Yeah,
we got plenty of time. Bro. So when he played
his last game at Golden State, I was at the
game and he saw me waiting for him in the

(01:08:12):
locker room. And you know that Golden State locker room.
You visiting locker room at that time was like the
biggest in the league is huge, visiting team is huge,
and he goes. Somebody came up to me said, Kobe
said to come in the training room. I ain't never
been a no chan like a media person, but if
Kobe said to come in the training room, take your

(01:08:34):
butt to the training room. So we be going there
and we have like this long conversation. And the one
thing about him, if you was one of his people,
that I loved about him, is he he really cared
about you as a person and care and and and
cared how you're doing and how your family was doing.

(01:08:55):
And I think the first time we really we're able
to connect well was after Hurricane Katrina and he he
played there's this if somebody wants to look it up,
there's this great game on YouTube that you could probably
find now. But it was a charity game for Hurricane
Katrina that took place in Houston. All these NBA superstars

(01:09:16):
played in it. Kobe Shock, Yeah, Yer played it like
I was all almost in it. And that's when me
and Kobe connected because he was. He actually pulled me
to the side and was asked me about my family
and my parents who had evacuated. Um, so we had

(01:09:37):
this long conversation and he actually he actually asked you
about that. He actually told and he heard my families
in New Orleans and like literally asked me about and
stuff like that. So anyways, um, fast forward. At that time,
kind of felt like something was changing with my career
and the undefeated stuff was slowly starting to come up

(01:09:59):
and I kind in the game of heads up on it,
and um, after I got the job, he was one
of the first people I emailed because we had a
real I was actually worried about our conversation getting on
air because that's when um, um, Spike Lee was filming
all that stuff for his documentary and they were camera

(01:10:22):
crew was in the room with me and him spoke. Now,
I would love to have that video personally now if
I could about that conversation. I which, if you ever
run across somebody who worked on that doc I bet
you they could probably find it deep deep in the archives.
But we talked about the teen minutes and but I
sent him an email basically told him I got the job,

(01:10:43):
and he sent me email back saying, a man, I'm
proud of you. Continue to use your voice and if
you need anything for me, man, don't hesitate. And I've
been meaning to print out that email and like put
it on this wall somewhere. You know, I need to
do that at um. But the last time I saw
him was about a year after I was in the Undefeated.

(01:11:07):
He when he got his jersey retired. That was not
the last time I saw him, but the last time
we got to speak. I think you got the video
there he came up to me. Is that big spirit?
Is that big spirit? And he actually was congratulating me
from my career and what I was doing with Undefeated.
And I'm like, bro, you did you see me? I'm like,

(01:11:27):
you just retired, like your jersey. This is about the
saying about me. But that showed you what kind of
man he was. That he hadn't seen me. We had
the email or talk whatever, but and done in interviews
and everything on, but we hadn't seen each other. And
he was like, Amen, congratulations, and I was like, and

(01:11:50):
even in this time of getting his jersey retired, he
thought it was important to tell me congratulations. Man. So
I'm still not there with it yet, you know what
I mean, I still haven't figured it out yet in
my mind um, but no, I I was. I was
sad when he retired. I think that was the only

(01:12:12):
time when the player retired and I was like, damn,
he was great, he was great to me, and and
him being gone. I still haven't come to like a
complete realization about that. No, that's one of the toughest
things that we've had to do with. Man, Like, it's
a basketball community, bro, that ain't going away. Oh no, man,
it's deep. It's too deep. You go to l A

(01:12:35):
and y'all got a reminder on every corner. Yeah, I
can't even Yeah, you can't walk anywhere without thinking about
any neighborhood in l A. That's love too, love any
neighborhood in l A. You're gonna see a mural. Some
are better than others. Some resembled to me a little
more than others. Year. But man, it's funny though, when

(01:12:57):
when you talk to people and how all these stories
about Kobe's character, the unbelievable nature of his character and
now starting to come out, it makes you realize that
the Black Mamba, his own court persona, that whole thing
that was that was just really what it was. But no,
if that was work ethic, Yeah, actually that that was
like work ethic um. But when you know when you

(01:13:22):
saw Jordan the last dance like go to come to tears,
like that was like the moment of the last dance
I always remember because he wanted greatness so much that
in order to get it out of the people, he
felt like he had to be a jerk to get
down to respond. And then a lot of that was

(01:13:42):
in Kobe too, Like I could imagine the conversations that
Jordan and Kobe had late at night because I don't
know that anybody really had anybody else to relate to
that mentality, that Mamba mentality, that jordan Esque mentality, like
that I want greatness at all costs. I know you're
not as great as me, but I'm a push and

(01:14:03):
prode you to bring you to a place that you
didn't think you could get to. And uh So it
was funny because so many people thought that Being was
a jerk and that, oh my goodness, he was one
of the greatest people in the world, like smartest people
in the world. Another thing he did behind the scenes

(01:14:25):
that was brilliant, and I implore any NBA player, especially
the stars, to do this. One of the reasons I mean,
being in l a afford you treasures. Right, You're gonna
meet people wearing that laking for your uniform afford you treasures.
But when he would go meet with people after games,
it was always these influential people. He would scout them

(01:14:45):
in the same way he scouted their opponents. So if
you were sowing so from Microsoft and you got to
meet Kobe after the game, because the only people he
was meeting after game were either people that you know,
kid too, something to was happening with them, right, or
somebody of ILK somebody of note like got to meet him.

(01:15:08):
And you would see these people several times after Lakers game.
You see these like very important people like nervous. He
would come in and be like, oh, hey, so and so,
pleasure to meet you. Meant, oh man, what you're doing
Microsoft is amazing. Yeah, you guys did this this and
this and this and that's like so he was like
calming them down, taking away the nervousness because they would

(01:15:32):
be shocked, like, damn, you know as much about me
as as I do about you. And I'm sure that
opened all kind of business stories for him because once
he was meeting all these powerful people and showing them
respect and knowing who they were. Hey, man, Kobe, whatever
you want, you call me, have your people call me

(01:15:53):
in that door open. There was so much great that
he was going to do that I think us surpassed
everything he did legendary already, like the book that these
books that he had written he wrote about superheroes, like
who writes about superheroes are different races? Because his kids

(01:16:16):
were mixed, he wanted them to be able to read
books about, you know, superheroes or or um mythical characters
that were of different colors so they could relate to him.
I wish we could have heard him talk about race today.
I wish we could have heard them during all this
hate and you'd have all these like the people that

(01:16:37):
were are racist, but don't listen to Kobe Bryant, Like
I think his best work would have been done now. Yeah,
and unfortunately he didn't get a chance to do that. No,
but yeah he didn't. But it's up to the next
generation of men to kind of keep that up. I

(01:16:59):
know for me personally, just being a dad and having
daughters and just watching him with his little girls and
just that whole side of him. I mean, it really
just it's sort of just disarms you and assens because
you know you're used to him as this certain dude,
but you see him with you know, Natalia and Gianna
and how he talks about him, and so it just

(01:17:20):
makes you be like, man, I gotta be a better dude.
And it's not a lot of people that inspire you,
especially when you get to my age anymore. Like I
don't have as many inspirations, but I will say that
Kobe Bryant is a man, not basketball player. He definitely
was one of the most inspirational dudes that I had,
you know, because I was awful them for a little bit,
but then I just had no choice but to be like, man,

(01:17:41):
this dude is just you know, sharp as attack always.
He took a lot of things from Michael suiting and
booted after the game. And you saw the love for
his family because he was like one of the few
players and perhaps it was because of his star too
that he could do it. Like you would see often
when he's leaving the game, his wife and kids would
be sitting outside a lot we wait always and you

(01:18:02):
know that the love for him because they were patient
about it. It wasn't like they were waiting in the
family room for him. They were waiting outside the locker
room for him. Wow, that's dope, man. So I saw
them little girls all the time because they were waiting there.
They would sit there and wait for him for a
half hour or whatever. You know, he was one of
the last people to walk out. Oh the things you

(01:18:23):
had to do. But yeah, man, that's uh yeah, there
were so many beautiful chapters to be written that way.
That was stolen from the world. Absolutely well, Mark, Man,
I appreciate you your time today. We wait hold On'm
gonna leave with this because we gotta leave on a
good note. Let's good. Yeah. He used to always tell

(01:18:45):
me I asked a lot of Doctor Seuss asked questions.
What do you mean with the riddles? You come in
as a compliment, man, because because you know, like I
also like bighted in psychology, so by by question to
have depth tool. A lot of times you always ask

(01:19:06):
me all this, damn Dr Seuss asked questions, man. So
I refused to think of it as a put down.
I do think it was a complement, man. But that's hilarious.
You always ask some goddamn Dr Seuss asked questions. One
of the kind being man. Yeah, rest in peace, fars me. Brother.

(01:19:29):
I appreciate you, my man. Um, thank you for coming
on kJ Live today and thanks for bringing on some
you know, just journalists man. Like you know, I don't
know if anybody cares what I have to say. Yeah,
they do, they do. You got a voice, You got
a voice. Man. You're one of the most interesting dudes man,
and I love your work. Keep up the great work, bro.
I'm a big, big fan man, and it's been an
honor to have you on the show. Love you, love

(01:19:52):
your family, y'all, Basketball royalty. Keep doing everything you guys
are doing on all platforms. Apreciate you, your brother, y'all. Y'all,
y'all define what basketball means. Man. So I love you all.
Love you can continue success, Bro, Thank you Mark. I
appreciate you man, all right,