Mark Willard and Ephraim Salaam React to the Nuggets and Cavaliers Facing Trouble and Debate NBA Replay Review Issues

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Well, good evening to you as we head into a
Sunday night. And everybody knows the rule if you've ever
played baseball from a young age, tie goes to the runner.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, in this particular case, as we take a look
at a few of the basketball series that are out there,
it's not really the case. The tie does not go
to the runner. I'm gonna explain that a little bit
more in a little bit. We're broadcasting live from the
Fox Sports Radio studios. But there's only one way to
start tonight, only one way to start. And first of all,

(00:34):
good evening to you. Eat from Salam, good evening to you.
But h Mark Willard, thank you. This is all the
rest of the night is all dedicated not to you,
not to me, but to any ladies out there who
have ever had cared for and raised a child. Happy
Mother's Day to each and every one of you that

(00:55):
happens to be listening to the sound of our voices
right now.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Happy Mother's Day. This is the place with moms come
to get entertained.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
That I pitched that motto and it got turned down,
but I'm not gonna give up I'm not gonna give up, man,
That's that's what I'm going for. But how did you
how'd you celebrate today?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Hey man, I celebrated with my beautiful wife and my
mother in law, and and all we did was everything
they wanted exactly right.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
That's how we celebrate.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
And you're very lucky that it sounds like they wanted
to be with you.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
That is true, and that I always give my wife
the option. I said, hey, you tell me, I can
take us and we can disappear. Yep, it is whatever
you want. And she every year without fail, she wants

(01:47):
to spend time with us.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
What a wonderful lady. And and I think that also
speaks highly of the rest of y'all too well. I
know I know by the moms now that they're like
that mom days off, so like see you later, I'm
going off to And no, shad't no judgment. But if
you want to go have a massage, and you want

(02:11):
to go to spa or the swimming pool of the beach,
you just want to be with the ladies and leave it,
that's fine. I totally get it. And maybe the best
thing to do is is split the difference a little
bit and you got a whole day, do a little
bit of both.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Old day.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
But those parents on Mother's days, father's days, if they
actually want to spend time with the family, that I
think that speaks well of everybody, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, yes, it does. So good job dad, Wow, thank you?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
You know. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
And I wake up early, I get my boys prepared,
and I tell.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Them, do not do not bother your mother.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yes, okay, ain't gonna mess with mom does that's no
arguments is no. But but but well he no, no, no, no, no, no,
yes mom, okay, Mom, that's it.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Orioles.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's kind of a shame actually that we only reserve
that for one day of the year. Yeah, it kind
of should be all of them.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
This is the only day it works, though.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's the only day it works, right, all.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
The rest of them. It's like pulling teeth.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Brother. I went for a as I often do. I'm
an early riser, and I went for a little run
today and I was running. There's this trail in our
town that's got a bunch of pretty steep flights of steps,
and so I go run the steps sometimes. And I
came running down the steps and it's like not even
eight o'clock in the morning yet not even close. And

(03:41):
I come down the steps and then here comes a
family that I know, the whole family, all four of them.
Dad's there, and the fifth grader is there, and the
fourth grader is there, and they're all dressed and the
shoes are on, and they're going they made no bones
about it. I'm like, look at you guys all out
here in the morning. They're like, well, mom made us.

(04:03):
I'm like, well, but you did it. Yes, you're here,
and at least for the moment, I know you're just
getting started. But you're all smiling, So that means even
if you don't want to be here, you're done good,
done good, You've done good. And then one kid yelled
at the other one, give me the water, stop walking away,
and then they were off to being a normal American

(04:24):
family again. So anyway, Happy Mother's Day to ever rebody,
all of the families out there. I hope it was
a relaxing day. I hope everybody was good to each other.
We thank you for making us a part of your day.
All right. The nuggets are up a creek, Denver Nuggets
are up a creek. Now, there's a lot of stuff

(04:45):
out there when you watch kind of the way this
all plays, like we're about to see the Pacers play
the Cavaliers, And I'm telling you right now, if the
Pacers don't win this game, they're up a creek. Ties
are not always good enough. In fact, the Golden State
Warriors could win a home game tomorrow night, and if
they do, that series is tied. And I'm like, not really,

(05:06):
not really, It's funny, isn't it the way? And I
wonder what it is about the way these things maneuver.
And obviously the Warriors Wolves thing is different because there's
a major injury to a major player. But when I
look at what the Pacers were able to achieve, I'll
say this about the Knicks in their next game, which

(05:27):
I think is tomorrow as well, Like, you go on
the road and win two games.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
You gotta get one of these.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
That is such an unbelievable statement. You cannot.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
You can't go around and come home and give it back.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
You're dead. You're dead if this thing gets reeven to too.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Too yet, the momentum, the momentum shifts, I mean tenfold.
When you shock a team and you win two games
on their road, meaning that team in the regular season
was better than you. That team had a better record,
So therefore you have home court advantage. And if a

(06:10):
team comes into your home and beat you twice, then
I mean you're reeling.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Now.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
You want to know what a knockout punch is? Win
Game three at home, that's a knockout punch. Now, no
matter what happens, they're dead in the water because no
team has ever come back three to zero to win
any series at any level. And so I think their

(06:43):
opportunities just watching those games, and look, you knew the
Celtics were going to win a game, right, You knew
a Celtics were gonna win Game three. In my mind,
I knew that they were gonna win Game three because
they understand as a championship team what losing game three

(07:05):
and going down oh three means in a series.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
And so.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
You know, if you're New York, you gotta understand that,
and you gotta do something. You gotta change everything up,
you gotta make it ugly, you gotta do things that
you're essentially you're just taking a shot because they're a

(07:35):
better roster than you, they have better depth, and so
you have to make it to where they're uncomfortable, you
have to impose your will on them. I'm talking about,
we're gonna score the first thirty points in the paint,
right like you. It's gotta be something drastic like that,

(07:56):
because what we saw is, look, they're not gonna shoot
as bad as they did forever.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's not gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
And so you gotta make it to a situation where
you can come out and say, hey, we're gonna give
up layups, but we're not gonna give up three pointers.
That way, if we're going in the paint, they're scoring
in the paint, we can keep the game close. That's
what I mean by radical, Right, I'm not gonna allow
you to shoot threes while we shoot two's. We're gonna

(08:26):
run every single person off the three point line, make
you shoot floaters, layups or dunks. That allows you to
keep the game close, because if you miss three times
in a row and they go down and hit three threes,
that's nine points.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
The game is no longer close.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
And so that's what I mean by doing something radical,
doing something that you're uncomfortable with. That's the type of
conversation I'm having with my team, and I'm saying, get
we're giving no threes what they've been shooting. I think
before Game three they were twenty five for one hundred

(09:10):
in three point phil goal makes twenty five of one hundred.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
There's a lot of it going around. I mean, you
watched it. Even though the Timberwolves eliminated the Lakers, they
were clanking threes like crazy couldn't And then they went
out and did the exact same thing in Game one
against the Warriors. They had gone through a stretch over
I think two plus playoff games where the Timberwolves wait
for this number now, were twelve of seventy six from

(09:38):
the three point line, and they're one of the top
they're one of the top five three point shooting teams
in the NBA.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
So you know, I just wonder, like I'm always fascinated
by the journey, the emotional side of the way these
things unfold. Because as we're getting later now into the
not just the final eight, but we're also getting later
in these series. We got all these game fours now
starting to unfold. You wonder how fatigue, both mental and physical,

(10:11):
are starting to weigh in. You wonder how the emotions
of the moment are starting to weigh in, because you know,
when we all left for the weekend, we're sitting there
looking at this Eastern Conference going hold up, like I
had already booked Celtics versus Cabs in the Eastern Conference
Finals done before the playoffs even started. I was like,

(10:32):
I don't even see how it could be anything.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
What is gonna be?

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Right? And then I walked into the weekend going dude,
are you both going down? And then obviously both of
them on I think it was Friday or one was Friday,
one was Saturday, just emphatically showed that that they're they're ready,
they're ready to come on and fight back, and they

(10:56):
won road games by double digits. But now it comes
to game four. And I've been talking about this a
lot lately on the weekday show Ephrom. I think it's
funny when people call game three and sometimes game five, oh,
the pivotal the pivotal Game three. No, the even numbered

(11:19):
games are the pivotal ones, because that's where you could
actually make some hay. If you win Game three but
the other team comes back and wins Game four, you
didn't do anything.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Game four is the one where you can create space
that three to one lead that essentially has only been
overcome I think four times in the history league. It's doable.
The Rockets almost did it last round. But it's very
very hard, and so that's where you can make some hay.
So these Pacers that we're looking at tonight, those knicks

(11:53):
that we'll be looking at tomorrow, and what we watched
Denver attempt to do and was unable to do earlier today,
that's your game, especially when you're the underdog. That's the
one where if you stole a road game and then
held serve in Game three, Game four, Minnesota will have
the opportunity tomorrow night. That's the game where you can

(12:14):
say this series is ours. And I'll tell you right
now that if the Pacers, if they win this game tonight,
I will I will all start to believe. And I
think that the one seed is going down. But they
gotta win this one tonight.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
They have to win this one.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
If they lose this one tonight, I firmly believe the
Cavaliers have got this thing handled.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
Yeah, because number one, the Cavaliers are back healthy, right,
They got three starters back.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Big deal, And so that's a very very big deal.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
He's like, oh, Okay, they got three starters back, and
I think the only time you would have been able
to beat this team with those three starters back is
the first time they came back. Don't quite have the
legs under them. It's been an intense series they haven't
been a part of. There may be a slight minute restriction,

(13:06):
but now it's wide open, and so I don't think
they're getting They're up to full strength now. And we
got a chance to see what that looked like, UH
and and in all its glory yesterday or the day
before yesterday, we got a chance to see that to

(13:26):
the tune of one hundred and twenty six points, which
I think I believe UH is one of the highest
scoring especially in the second round. What we've seen, and
we'll get into this after the break, is you know,
the level of defensive.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Intensity, oh Man has increased.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
It is amazing.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
So this is great basketball, in my opinion, been very good.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh yeah good.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
There's a bunch of you know, naysayers about I don't
is this what you want? But ninety one to eighty three, Hey,
maybe it's I do want it because what it does
is it adds an element. It adds an element of.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Friction. Oh you mean someone's.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
Not gonn dribble, dribble, dribble, step back, step back, step
back three right? Oh you mean someone's just gonna go
down the middle and dunk no more.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Like.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
It shows you just how hard these teams are competing.
And I love the refs in the league for allowing
them to compete physically.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yep. And you can see it really takes its toll
on the legs of the three point shooters. Oh yeah, right, Like,
I mean, that's that game we watched earlier. Neither team
couldn't hit anything, shot twenty five percent from three.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
It made twenty three pointers between the both of them. Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
The Nuggets were eleven of forty five, the thunder were
ten of forty one counted up, that's the exact same
percentage twenty four point four percent for both both terrible,
But yes, the defense has to say in that all right,
So a little bit more on that game. There's a
couple players specifically I want to point out and talk
about in that game, So we'll do that coming up next.

(15:16):
This is with me from Salam and Mark Willard Fox
Sports Radio.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Okay, we're in the Fox Sports Radio studios. Happy Mom's Day.
That's see from Salam. I'm Mark Willard. I want to
throw out to you to maybe, uh you know, check
out the Fox Sports Radio YouTube channel if you haven't
already a ton of great videos from all the Fox
Sports Radio shows. You just go in there and search Yep,
you guessed it, Fox Sports Radio on YouTube, and then

(15:52):
everything just pops up video highlights from all the shows.
We should have subscribed, so you've always got instant access
to our Fox Sports Radio videos on YouTube. Your boy
earlier today went two of twelve from the field, two

(16:13):
of nine from three points, scored six total. And are
you a believer in plus minus? Are you?

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah? Plus minus matters?

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Plus minus matters for those who don't speak box score.
Plus minus basically tells you what each individual player like,
what happened on the floor while they were out there.
So if your plus, your team outscored the opponent while
you were out there. If you're minus, the opposite happened

(16:50):
and your boy And for those who don't know who
your boy is. That would be Russell Westbrook was a
big olds thinking minus twenty in a basketball game that
they only lost by five and led going into the
fourth quarter. I like, I get it, but I kind

(17:15):
of don't get it. I get it, I get the talent,
I get the I mean, there's an MVP award in there.
I fully understand that, but I don't know. I haven't
watched every Nuggets game this year, and I'm not gonna
say he doesn't bring something to the table. But you

(17:37):
watched the guy. You know you don't want him on
your team anymore. You've stated that. I just watch him
play and I go most of the time I watch him.
I'm like, there's a lot of good, but there's more bad.
It's more bad than good.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
The man told you just exactly what you were gonna get.
He said it himself to one of the games.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
And you can.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Live by it, you die by it. Now for me,
I'm good. I don't need you to be okay with
turning the ball over. I don't need you to be
okay with not understanding the flow of the game. I
don't need that. And so if you can't control it,

(18:26):
which is essentially what he said. You're gonna get what
you're gonna get, You're gonna get this is just me.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Maybe a turnover. Maybe this I may make a shy I.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Mean, oh, in the playoffs, we little little bit more
consistency in not wanting to turn the ball over and
acknowledging the fact that I'm not going to turn the
ball over to me. That's what you need to be
successful in the playoffs. And so, like you said, you
live by it, you die by it. I just I've

(19:00):
seen it. I've I've seen it too many times where
it's been a detriment to the team because although he
can give you a spark when you need a spark,
he can also blow up your ship.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
And so.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
He is.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
Correct when it's this is me, this is what you're
gonna get the whole nine yards. And so it came
back to in a closed game. It came back to
bite them, and and we'll see how this thing keeps going.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
I mean, they had they had taken.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
This was a series that was going to be a fight,
and you gotta take care home court on either side
of this thing. And to give him away close at
home is tough.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
It's tough. It really is.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean up by six going into the
fourth quarter. Got you gotta you gotta close it out,
You gotta you gotta close it out. Nikola Jokic has
not been shooting the ball. Well, I'm sure he had
twenty seven points and thirteen rebounds, but he was seven
to twenty two. Like that defense that you talked about
is really really wearing on people. Yeah, it's really like

(20:25):
and I mean the whole league, the whole league is
starting to threaten to make this all look like college basketball,
you know what I mean, where it's just like, again,
I know you're not bothered by games that are in
the low nineties the h eighties. I'm not either. I'm
not either. But you know, I also have been talking
this year about like how many twenty point leads go away,

(20:49):
And I'm like, yeah, especially when they're in the first half,
Like you gotta stop acting like that's ball game when
you're up there. Used to be when you're up twenty,
that was like, okay, like let's put this thing in
the control. But people can erase ten point deficits so
fast they turn your twenty point deficit into a ten
point deficit in a few possessions with the way people

(21:09):
are hitting the three, but not a lot of teams
are hitting that three right now like this is. This
is all across the league and my best guess only
I can think of this defense that the league is
allowing and you're in favor of. And I get it,
I get it. It love it wearing on people.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Good.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
You know what, when you know what, you really got
a chance or have to get a chance to see.
And I tell people this all the time. The three
point shot is easy. It's a cop out. And I'm

(21:53):
not talking about for every player a Steph Curry is.
It's masterful. Sure, that's what he does. It's masterful, Klay Thompson.
They're a myriad of players who have just you know,
pritch it, Derek White, they're masterful at it, but they

(22:18):
aren't the only ones shooting them. But what it does
is we've seen it on fast breaks. We've seen it
on three on two or three on one fast breaks
where no one goes to the rim, both wings flare
out to the three and you shoot a three pointer. Yep,
when you have the offensive advantage, yep. You know why

(22:41):
wisconstant because it's an easy shot. The majority of the threes,
no defense is present, so it's just a shot. Either
someone drives and kicks it and you shoot it. Are
they swinging the ball and you shoot it. It's easy.
There's no contact there, there's no afterthought. It's easy. Almost

(23:06):
as easy as us handing this thing off to Steve
the Seger thirty after the hour, Almost as easy as that.
Or Martin Wise, Oh it's not Steve. Oh whoa, whoa
he Mark, he can wait. We gotta wait, he can wait.
If if Steve's not in here, he can wait. It's fine.

(23:28):
We'll get him at forty five. Right looking looking at it.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Come on, man, ladies and gentlemen, Martin Wise, let's go.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Hey, let's the playoffs. Just because I'm out here.

Speaker 6 (23:43):
Look little they say play five, like play six, trust five,
maybe the sixth man.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
But I'm here, you're here. I'm ready to make you
locked in, No problem, all right.

Speaker 6 (23:53):
The Indiana Pacers lead the Cleveland Cavaliers in Game four
of the Eastern Conferce Semifinals twenty two to ten.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Right has been a rough going for Cleveland.

Speaker 6 (24:02):
Obviously, on the offensive side of things, Miles Turner has
five points.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Obi Toppin has five as well.

Speaker 6 (24:07):
Tyre's Haliburton four rebounds, but only two points the game.
The guy's just talking about the Thunder and the Nuggets.
The Thunder tie this series back up in a game
four win in Denver ninety two to eighty seven. Shay
Gilders Alexander at twenty five point six rebounds. Now going
back to the Oklahoma City for Game five. As I'm

(24:28):
looking at this Indiana Cleveland game, it looks like Benedict
Mather it just went back towards the locker room.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
He was ejected right Rick.

Speaker 6 (24:35):
Carlisle's arguing with the referees and not happy with the
be Benedict Mather, And looks like he'll be watching the
rest of this game just like you and me as
watching on TV. As de Andre Hunter attempts the technical
free throw, misses it all right and mate. In hockey,
end of the first period, Florida has a first one
goal lead over Toronto won to nothing, and a two

(24:57):
to one lead in the series. This game four of
the second in the Eastern Conference playoffs. Earlier today, we
saw the Stars beat the Jets five to two. That
three goals in the third period they take a two
to one series lead. After a seven and thirty three
start to the season and a twenty one to zero
loss on Saturday, the Rockies fired but manager Bud Black.

(25:18):
Ironically enough, the Rockies did pick up their seventh win
of the year. On Sunday, they speak the Cares nine
to three. Freddie Freeman Rooki Betts both at home runs
as the Dodgers beat the Diamondbacks eight to one, and
right now Sunday Night Baseball, the Phillies have a.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
One run lead over the Garden Unions one to nothing.

Speaker 6 (25:34):
Kyle schwar Rat bat He's got the one leadoff home
a home run earlier today, top of the sixth inning,
one on and one out, ephrom and Mark back to
you guys.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Appreciate you, Martin, Appreciate you battling through that disrespect.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
No any disrespect.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
It was amazing. Actually I thought.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Way to step up.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Speaking of disrespect, I don't know, did you look down?
I look down, I look back up and uh and
and in this Pacers Calves game, DeAndre Hunter walked straight up.
Was that nem Hard that got knocked out or nest Man?

Speaker 3 (26:12):
It's uh, it was who got thrown out?

Speaker 4 (26:15):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (26:16):
What's his name? Heartburn, Heartburn.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Mathren Man, Benedict Mathrin got thrown out?

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, well he punched him in the stomach.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, backed up, and Hunter just walked over, stalked over,
and two arms shoved him to the ground. And I think,
if you look down for a second, I know the
fans in Indian NFL this way, They're like, whoa Hunter's
gonna get thrown out for that? Nope, Nope, it was
actually the other way around. I give the officials credit

(26:46):
because the old adage didn't happen there, which is that
the responder is the one who gets in trouble.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Well, yeah, but now nowadays, with the eye in the sky,
you can always catch the first guy.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Oh, don't get me started. You want to go there?
You want to go there? Should we talk about NBA
replay for one hour or two? Should we? My man?

(27:19):
Help me out, Help me out. I'm gonna try like
hell to not make this about my team, because I
don't think it is about my team. Well, last night,
last night was a big old bucket of you know what,
and that happens not the first time, won't be the last.
But here's my question. It's procedural I'm not a results guy.

(27:42):
I'm a processed guy. So the result is gonna be weird.
Sometimes you're not always gonna This is a John Wooden thing, right, Like,
keep doing it the way that you're supposed to do
it and trust that more often than not that's gonna
work out for you. There'll be one offs, there'll be
times where it doesn't work out for you. So the
fact that every single review went the wrong way last

(28:04):
night is not the is not the point.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Did it go the way?

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Well, in this case, it was the same thing. Now,
there was one review on the ball got knocked out
of bounds by the Warriors. They overturned it, and they
were right. I got eyes, I could see that, okay,
But with regard to the situation that developed there, it
is simply an example of what I'm trying to say,

(28:35):
And and here is the example so that I can
make the larger point. Okay, you have a foul called
in I think the third quarter doesn't matter, second quarter,
third quarter in the NBA, apparently, if you're going to
be wrong, you better be a ref. You're the only

(28:59):
person that's allowed to be wrong, and you can be
wrong over and over and over again. But my god,
if a team decides to challenge something, and even if
they're right, but you refs decide they're wrong, then they

(29:19):
are punished for the remainder of the night and they
don't have a challenge anymore. Now the NFL takes over
with two minutes to go and a half, the NFL
is instituted something that you sort of just referenced called
replay Assist, also known as the eye in the sky.

(29:40):
They can whisper to the refs, guys, you just got
it wrong. Change your call, and they do because it's
twenty twenty five and why the hell wouldn't you do that?
But no, not in the NBA. If you ask somebody
to look at something and they decide that you're wrong,
that's it. You get said into your room for the
remainder of the game. And if the refs decide to

(30:03):
then go out there and ruin the rest of the game,
tough bub kiss cookies, nothing you can do about it.
And I just think from a process standpoint, that's stupid.
What who came up with that idea? Who came up
with the idea that in a two point game coming
down the stretch with three minutes to go. The person

(30:25):
who I happen to think is the best defensive player
I've ever watched in my entire life and is the
heartbeat of a playoff team's defense in a one to
one tie, is gonna get sent to the bench with
his sixth foul when literally no contact was made at all,
no contact.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Defense, But it wasn't his left hand. Oh dear, listen
to what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
You're calling for physicality in the playoffs, and that all
a fingernail is going to send.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
Somebody the ball, right, If this is what this is, all,
I'll say, as great and I mean great, as great
as Draymond is defensively, I mean he's one of the
best who's ever done it in any era period. He

(31:15):
is a difference maker on defense, and there's nothing you
can say against that.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
But he's gotta be.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Smarter well, of course, and so if you know this,
which he did that for his whole career, because he
just picked up his fifth foul, but anyway, but was
reviewed incorrectly, right, But what I'm saying is you have
to know if he if he goes based on the
first he closed out awful, But you can't give up

(31:46):
the baseline there. But if he does, you gotta you
gotta concede the dunk.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I'm not even going to argue that you have to.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
And you I knew it, you know it, knew it,
everybody knew.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
But here's the question that matters for the process. I
can't argue whether or not Draymond makes perfect decisions on
the court. Good lord, we could do a montage for
two hours of all the stupid things that he got
on a basketball court. Okay, However, let me ask you

(32:20):
this and and hold your answer. If that got reviewed,
do you think they would have overturned it? See? I
disagree with you?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
And why?

Speaker 4 (32:34):
And this is why I tell you why. I'll tell
you exactly why. If you want me, you want to
give to you now?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
No, give it to me next, Give it to me next.
On Fox Sports Radio Sports Radio alright, live in the
Fox Sports Radio studios, Mark Wardy from Salam. I'm gonna
I'm gonna try to keep doing my best here. I'm

(33:00):
gonna try because e it's really not about the Warriors,
and it's not about last night. I really don't understand
the idea that the NBA feels like if you challenge
a play and you're wrong or they think you're wrong.

(33:24):
That's it. That's it. No more needing to get it right,
no more needing to worry about anything that happens the
rest of the game. You're wrong one time, and that's it.
It's over. You completely pull your pants down and leave
them around your ankles for the remainder of the game.

(33:47):
What if we just focus on that. Tell me that
that makes sense in twenty twenty five when you're also
not using replay assist.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Okay, that's my issue, But go ahead.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
What I will say is this what happens after every
single whistle? Tell me what happens?

Speaker 3 (34:15):
What? What do the players.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Do starting to their bench?

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Okay, now, for a cent of all players who do
that are wrong?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Correct, Like that's a real number in my estimation. Because
I'm going I can tell you what I could tell
you why. I say that because of the time, the
coach doesn't challenge, right, But why doesn't the coach challenge
because it's not enough evidence to overturn it. They get

(34:53):
real time, they get real time reviews.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
They do I know time.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
There's the guy, the coach, The coach look at the player,
the twirl o the finger. He'll immediately turn to the
guy behind the bench with the iPad and you'll see
that guy look down and then look up and shake
his head.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
No.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Oh, yes, yeah, I understood. However, soever, I disagree with
you that.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
That's why that was just part of it. That was
part of Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
The plays to often don't get reviewed because the coach knows,
I better save this for the uber uber super super
really messy call, even though the one that just screwed
up the third quarter might be really important. I'm not
gonna review that because what if I need this in
the fourth quarter?

Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yes, so if you go, if you gave each team
five challenges, no, no, no, not calling for that.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
What do we call it for?

Speaker 2 (35:46):
I mean something that's beyond one and dock?

Speaker 3 (35:49):
How slow would the game go?

Speaker 2 (35:52):
I mean, we've already got this in the NFL. We've
already got this in the NFL. And by the way,
it is not our fault, nor is it the player's
fault that the league has such a ridiculously antiquated way
of getting the review. How long did you watch the
game last night? I know you didn't. When that ball
didn't go off of Anthony Edwards one look. They hadn't

(36:15):
even gone to commercial yet, and I'm like, oh, that's
off the Warriors. Then we go watch five beer commercials.
I went to the bathroom, so I came back. I
ordered another drink. I was at a bar. I ordered
another drink. And then they come back to broadcast and
these three dudes are still standing over there with headsets on.

(36:40):
What are we doing? What are we doing? Take a
look at it, turn around, get your butt back out
on the court, and let's move. I like, I'm they
do not get to do that, and then use that
as the reason why these teams are are getting okay.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
So I'll say with the play, we're talking about the
foul that Draymond got his sixth foul. The reason they
would have kept that a foul is his offhand, which
was his left hand. His right hand was up trying
to challenge the shot because the player was behind the

(37:24):
backboard going baseline. Any contact with that hand while the
players in the air pushes them out of the range
of making a shot. It pushes them behind the backboard.
They're gonna call it every single time. If that's in
the middle of the court, they're not calling it. But
because it's baseline, and because the slightest touch on someone's

(37:48):
hip when they're in the air places them behind the
angle to make a shot. They're gonna call that now
up top. He challenged it without a foul. That's why
I was saying. He has to be smarter than that.
He gave a baseline.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
He was beaten. You gotta let that one go. You
have to, you gotta let it go.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
And you and I see this one differently because he
didn't let it go, and I thought he defended it
masterfully and he caused the miss. And you and I
will never know what the refs would have said if
they were able to call review, which they weren't. But
here's what I would say. This is what I often see.

(38:33):
Forget last night. You want to know why they would
have come back and confirmed that it was a foul,
because they're human beings and they want to be right.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Oh that's what kid.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Here's the other thing that's stupid about NBA replay. Don't
let the people who made the call go replay it.
Have Bob be in New Jersey just look at it.
Tell us what you see, say it to the rest,
send it back, because these guys want to be right,

(39:05):
and so there's confirmation bias dripping all over this system.
I've watched it all year long, and I'm not obviously
talking about last night because that review didn't even take place.
But I'm confident they would have come out and confirmed
it because they're human beings and they would like to
be right. Like my issue is not in the end,

(39:26):
it's not with any specific thing that happened last night,
it's with the entire process that to me reeks of
the NBA not really wanting to get it right. They
wanted to look like they want to get it right,
but they wouldn't do it this way if they wanted
to get it right. That's what I'm thinking. We got

(39:48):
more time for this, we do, and we're live in
the Fox Sports Radio studios. We also got to talk
about George Pickens to the Boys. We will next.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
You're listening to Sports Radio.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
There we go, and we're broadcasting live in the Fox
Sports Radio studios, and getting into it about officiating in
the NBA playoffs is kind of taking us away from
the NBA playoff game that's being played right now. And
I know I told you earlier and I believe this
twenty point leads in the first half don't mean what
they used to. They go away a lot. But if
you get north of twenty five, now we're starting to

(40:23):
Now we're starting to warm up fat ladies all around
the world. And right now it's twenty three, still seven
plus minutes to go second quarter. But you and I
both agreed the Pacers waste everything they did in Cleveland
if they don't win tonight. But they very much look

(40:43):
like a team that's planning on winning tonight.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
I think they understand that maybe we're we may know
a thing or two about the sports, thing.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
That we like to t could possible seem possible.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Like we uh, you know, are.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Pretty We get some right, we get some right, we
get something wrong. But anyway, like let me ask you this,
does it go the other way? If the Pacers do
win this, are you ready to call the one seed
done in the East? Uh?

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yes, huh?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
The Pacers would still only have one more home game.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yeah yeah, but it well number one. They've shown they
can win too in Cleveland, which is difficult to do.
Albeit they didn't have their guys, But everybody's playing here
and playing now, so now you're just literally playing with
house money. Right, we just saw it in the earlier
series with Houston and Golden State.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Yes, the amount of energy and effort that you have
to put out to climb your way back from a
three to one deficit will show up somewhere, namely in
Game seven. And it took, you know, everything, like Houston

(42:12):
just wasn't they're not they're not old enough yet. They
don't have a player on their team. Now I'm on Thompson.
He showed up. He is about to be special.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
He looked like arrow up and Jalen Green.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
Look, well, Jayalen was the future and now that is
cleared it is not him. And so that's what you
need the series like that, Your younger players get to
take steps.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Right.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
We saw we saw Anthony Edwards last year, right taking steps.
This year we've seen them taking steps. And look for
the most part of that game yesterday, he seemed uninterested.
He seemed, you know, not like the guy. Until the

(43:04):
end of the third fourth quarter, it was wrapped. He
hit a button and it was gone and it was
nothing they could do to stand in front of him.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
It was nothing they could do.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
It was fantastic. He's fantastic. My goodness, he's fantastic when
I look at it, and I actually I got a
an Anthony Edwards related question to ask you in a
little bit we work through this, but anyway, go ahead.
He's amazing.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
And so when you're down three to one and you're
fighting back and you get it to a game seven,
it's difficult to win that game seven if you're the
team that was fighting back because you put it all,
I mean, you empty the tank and you you need
that's when your tank needs to be as full as

(43:49):
it can be as any game seven. And so you know,
more times than not, we get it to a game
seven and then they you know, fizzle out at some
point in that game and the team will the three
to one lead ends up winning. And so it's it's
it's one of those situations if if, if, if Indiana
wins this game, they're in the driver's seat and Cleveland

(44:14):
is reeling and you know, most likely they get back
to Cleveland, they win that game and Indiana comes out
like they've come out today, which is unbelievable and and
kind of put their imprint on this series. I mean

(44:35):
they're playing with I mean every loose ball, every they
just got a ten second call, like, when's the last
time you say.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Excuse me, eight seconds. When's the last time you've seen
that in the NBA?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Well yeah, and they also they have I'm trying to
think of a camp, but you know miracle run type teams.
Actually here, I'll give you a compidle bit and it
might bug you a little bit, but you're San Diego
State Aztec. Oh yeah, two years ago, three years ago
when they made their run all the way to the end.

(45:07):
When you have a team that's like, yes, they're as
good as who they're going up against, but they're not
like way better. No, but I clearly better, but they're
right there, and then they just something happens for three
weeks where all the big plays kind of go their way.
Indiana has had a miracle run all round. They've had

(45:29):
at least two wins they had no business getting right.
I mean, even the way they eliminated the Bucks, it
was like, dude, you were out of that game, and
then it was just a miracle finish. And then Tyrese
Halliburton's Dad's running around with a towel and everything changed.
And then same thing the other night in Cleveland, like
game number two Cleveland was killing them all night, killing them,

(45:52):
and then you know, it gets a little closer, but
you're still talking about like an eight point game with
a minute to go.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
It is crazy. But I don't mean to cut you off.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
No, go ahead, But I'm watching this game and we
just talked about effort, and yeah, every single loose ball.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Missed a free throw, he got his own rebound, right.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
They got like seventeen offensive rebounds on that possession.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
You can this is what I'm talking about. Cleveland is dead.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Their feet are dead, their legs are dead. It's the
little things. And when you're at home and you're doing
the little things, the crowd it's like cocaine, right, the
crowd gets in you and you feel like you're king
of the world.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Excuse me, the cocaine.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
That's that's okay, that's okay. I don't I don't want
to sound like a square, but I'm like, I actually
don't even know what that feels like. That's just me.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
But now to be fair for me either, okay, which actually, yeah,
I wan the movies it seems like that.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's right. Yes, I know some people who have part
took Yeah, let's put it that way. But No, you
didn't even need to say that. I knew that about
you already. Oh well yeah, you know. Anyway anyway, Yeah,
like if you ask me in this moment, I think
the Pacers are gonna win this series. Man.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
They look like they want it and they want it now.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Win this series. The Cleveland Cavaliers, who were just I mean,
they were restaurant quality all year, the one seed, clear,
running away clean, and and maybe they're not even gonna
make it to the conference finals. I mean it's bringing
back thoughts actually of the Phoenix Suns three years ago.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Oh yeah, remember them, Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Sixty some odd win basketball team. And I think in
this second round bout out to the Dallas Mavericks. If
memory is serving correctly, yep, yeah, yeah, there's some shades
of this here. This would be incredibly disappointing for this team.
But you know what it does bring up. It sort
of leads me to the question I wanted to ask you.

(47:57):
And you know, you talk about Houston there a minute ago,
and you're like, yeah, they're still missing that dude. We're
just like, here here's the basketball, go go make something happen.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
We need this right now.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Is Cleveland that too? I know, I know what we
want Donovan Mitchell to be good. I'm not sure he
is good. Point they now they're point. The NBA always
has this happening at any given moment. There are young

(48:29):
people who are playing the role of two or three
who are about to be a one and you just
don't know it yet, you know, Like I think kind
of about like Jalen Brunson on the Mavericks, or or
or Shake Kill just on the Clippers. There's young players
where you're like, oh, you know, a good player. There's
a nice player, and then next thing you know, they're like, oh, oh,

(48:52):
I didn't know you could do twenty seven a night
and take someone deep in the playoffs. Okay, And at
the same time there dudes masquerading as ones and it
works ish but not really, like it's not actually gonna
get you all the way to the end. And I
wonder if Donovan Mitchell is one of those guys.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Well, we saw that in Utah and now we're seeing
it again in Cleveland. And the only way to change
that narrative is to change that narrative. It's Jamal Murray
is one of those guys, right, Because you gotta remember, yep,
these two are connected because what that performance they put

(49:38):
on against each other in the bubble was unreal.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
It was unreal.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
So we were saying we were waiting, we were waiting
for them to take the league over. These two young
guys came in and were scoring forty and fifty back
each other against each other, yep, and then nothing, and

(50:03):
so we're still waiting as a league for them to
be those guys five years ago. Now Jamal Murray is
it's it's it's an enigma because he has the highest
increase in points per game from regular season to playoffs

(50:27):
in in NBA history.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I believe.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I believe he goes up a whole seven points from
the regular season to playoffs, which is crazy. But it
didn't pay dirt until two years ago when they won
the championship and he was phenomenal. Although it's Jokers team,

(50:51):
he timely big shot after big shot after big shot,
and so it was kind of like okay, but then
he comes back to the name year in the regular season,
it's just man, this is regular and so you never
really get to get the whole package of greatness into greatness,
into greatness. Donovan Mitchell has all Spider remember it was

(51:13):
spider Yep, hang on the rim upside there. All that
is just completely explosive. Utah, nah, it didn't work. Him
and Rudy didn't get along. Now neither one of them
are there. Comes to Cleveland. It's like him and Garland
couldn't mesh. Remember that, you know two years ago they
couldn't mash. They it was just like some one of
them has to go. Last year they figured out a

(51:34):
way to play together. They were growing as a team.
This year they came took the league over in the East,
and we're waiting for him as he hit the long three.
We're waiting for him to put his stamp not only
on this team the playoffs, but on the league. And
so we're just kind of waiting. Yep, Lucas come in

(51:56):
and take taking over like it's you know, you know,
Cape Cunningham is coming, like Ben Carroll that you can
see these guys are coming. These guys are coming. So
who's it gonna be? Anthony Edwards? And so they kind
of get lost in the shuffle. Donovan Mitchell kind of

(52:18):
gets lost in the shuffle.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Well, I do think that my gut tells me he's
a one that in this moment for this team, who
would be better suited as a two? And it's amazing
that you brought up Jamal Murray because that's exactly what
that is. Yes, it's like he's okay, there are times
where he can look like a one, but if you
would like to win a championship, you're going to be

(52:40):
a two. Yeah, You're gonna be a two. And so
you know, I wonder if Mitchell is that let me
ask you this coming up next, like, how would you
answer this question? Which of these four still in the
playoffs has the most to gain by advancing his team
to the NBA fives? All four of them have never gone.

(53:03):
Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, Shake, Gilges, Alexander Anthony Edwards. I
wonder how you'd answer that. Let's hop to that coming
up next with you from Salama, Mark Willard. This is
Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Okay, right now, it's live in the Fox Sports Radio studios.
You can stream the show and all our Fox Sports
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(53:49):
you do that, you never lose us. You never have
to go searching preset Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app,
and it's always gonna pop up at the top of
your screen. All right, So how would you answer that?
There's a few different ways to go about it, But
which NBA star is the most of game by advancing
to the NBA Finals, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, shake yo,

(54:10):
just Alexander or Anthony Edwards.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
I would have to say Anthony Edwards hmm.

Speaker 4 (54:18):
And there was a couple of ways you could have
gone on this, but for me, Anthony Edwards is the
one based on the spotlight he's put on himself, the
King Slayer asking for Stephan I want Steph KD sent
him home last year, all right.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Luca Lebron the Lebron, So.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
It would have to be him because if they beat
Golden State, even though Steph is injured. Then he checks
that off the list, right, and then he's creating a
narrative that is can deducive to a tremendous story and
an ushering in of a new superstar or a new well.

(55:09):
It's actually his villain origin story because he likes to smoke.
He wants to smoke. And so for me, in terms
of what the league is and who this player is
to the league, it's definitely Anthony Edwards. He doesn't want
to be your friend on the court. He doesn't want

(55:30):
he doesn't want the easy way. He wants to go
through our all time greats are well, he wants to
go through the faces of the league.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Doesn't want to be the face of the league.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
He doesn't.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
But guess what happens if you do that?

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Oh yeah, this is this kind of like when Charles
Barkley a thousand years ago used to do that commercial.
You don't get to choose.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Don't get to choose.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
You don't get to choose. If you're a role model,
you got to go to kids' bedrooms, take their posters
off the wall. You don't choose. If you're a role model,
you just are. And and Anthony Edwards I do believe.
And now face of the league does not just mean
that's the next best player, right have to you have
to get the hardware and all of that stuff. I

(56:15):
totally get where you're coming from. But but let me
say it a different way. He's actually for me, probably
fourth on the list because I trust him the most.
Like I already believe that Anthony Edwards is an absolute,
no doubt it NBA one who's going to win a ring.

(56:38):
So like he's gonna get there. Do you know off
the top of your head, By the way, how old
Anthony Edwards is?

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Twenty six?

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Uh uh?

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Try again, twenty four?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Keep going twenty three, twenty three?

Speaker 4 (56:53):
Low, that's what you want, That's what the league wants.
That man is twenty not even he does three. Imagine
when he grows into his body and his strength and
his full power.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
I mean, because you are a big time NBA fan,
you know about like the debate that's been going on
here in the Bay Area for the last six months
about Jonathan Kaminga and if I had a nickel for
every time someone's like, well, he don't know quite out
of play yet because he's only twenty two. I'm like,
so is the whole Rockets.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Team, the entire team.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Anthony Edwards is only twenty three. He looks like an
absolute pot And I know those guys have had more
minutes in college basketball, and we get into the whole thing.
But I always bring this up because I think the
perception is what you said right out the gate there. Yeah,
Anthony's been around for a while. Uh huh, twenty free man,

(57:48):
So I don't worry about him. I look at some
of the other guys on that list, and for me, yeah,
I've already made my case about like I actually think
Donovan Mitchell is really just not an NBA one. I
think he's a great player. I think he would be
amazing as somebody's Robin for example, what we've kind of

(58:10):
watched Jimmy Butler do with Steph Curry in the last
three months. I think Jalen Brunson because it's the Big Apple,
because that city is actually a basketball town that's just
waiting for the Knicks to finally do something that would
be generational if somehow he broke through. And then my

(58:30):
actual answer though, would be the guy who's gonna win MVP,
The guy who's gonna win MVP. Boy, they're lucky they
won that basketball game today. Shake gilges Alexander has had
a weird look so far in these playoffs. You know,
why why why? What do you see?

Speaker 4 (58:50):
It's more physical, There's not a lot of space to
get downhill and and form for calls. Right, he got
a lot of the James Harden and them where they're
forming for calls, a lot of headback, a lot of
flail of the arm. They're not calling that in the playoffs.

(59:13):
They're just not gonna do it. James wasn't getting that call.
He's not getting that call, and anybody going to the
hole is not getting that call. And so it's kind
of throwing him off his game a little bit. So
what you do you result to shooting?

Speaker 2 (59:27):
What?

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Three pointers? I already mentioned that's the easiest shot in basketball.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
It's also not very good at it, right, he'd like
even he is a mid range down play.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
And so it's it's one of those things to where
it's kind of.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
Like, Okay, well, you know, it's easy.

Speaker 4 (59:48):
To get up and down doing the regular season, but
when a really good team game plans for you, it
takes things away from you. What can you do to
still be that guy? That's the greatness of a Michael Jordan,
of a Kobe, of a Magic, you know, of a
Steph That was the magic of them by getting into

(01:00:13):
these playoff series and all eyes would be on them,
and they still give you fifty, They still give you
sixty three, they still give you forty five every game.
Shack was like that too, no jump shots and no
free throws. He's averaging forty two points a game in

(01:00:33):
the finals, how right like? But that is how you
take it to the next level. There are very few
playoff series where Michael Jordan was held to sixteen points,
nineteen points, twenty points, right like? When if you look
at his scoring average in every series, it's well over

(01:00:53):
thirty points a game period in every single series, thirty
plus points. And and that's how you take it to
the next level. Can you take your talents MVP or
not and take it to the next level? Is there
a higher level you can go then regular season MVP?

(01:01:17):
Well yeah, the greats have shown this there is that's
the point when Kareem got old and they went to
Magic and said, hey, you gotta score more. Okay, now,
just having thirty points a game, like, can you take
as a great an MVP. Can you take it to
the next level? And we're not seeing shape do that

(01:01:39):
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
I just while you're sitting there kind of laying that
all out, I was looking at his numbers and it's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
You know, in that game too, which was pretty predictable
that Oklahoma City was gonna blow Denver out. They blew
game one. Let Denver come back. They were gonna come
out with desperation. They won by forty three points. Shake
Gilgis in that game was eleven of thirteen from the field,
very efficient, only attempted two three pointers, made one of them,

(01:02:13):
thirty four points, hit all eleven of his free throws.
He was beautiful outside of that game. Oh my goodness,
Oh my goodness. This man who shot fifty two percent
from the field in the regular season is shooting forty
three point eight percent in the playoffs. And that's with

(01:02:35):
that game that I just mentioned as part of it helped.
He has gone from a thirty seven and a half
percent three point shooter to twenty six point two. He's
gone from averaging just under thirty three points a game
to averaging twenty seven and a half. Now, that's all
stats and physical defense and scores are lower and all

(01:02:56):
of that, and I understand, I totally get it. But
at the same time, Shay looks like you just said,
like he's searching because what he tends to do in
the regular season has kind of been siphoned off, and
so he may survive this series. I think he probably

(01:03:17):
will because of their win today and who knows where
they're going to go from here. But Shay Gilgess is
the one who won sixty something games, He's the one
who won the MVP. He's the word I is going
to win the MVP. He's the one who is supposed

(01:03:39):
to go to the NBA Finals this year, and if
he doesn't, the conversation will change. So that's like, and
I like the way you said it. Man, there's a
few ways to answer that question. You answered it one way.
I kind of take a different angle on this. Shaye
kind of needs this to me more than Anthony, at

(01:04:00):
least in this moment. Kind of how like right now
we kind of like we don't we don't just want
Martin Weis. We need them, we need him, We need
Martin Weiss. So let's get some Martin Weiss. Let's find
out what's trending right now on Fox Sports.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Radio singing a different tune there?

Speaker 7 (01:04:19):
Huh, we need you, you know, I do want to
ask you this because you talked about how twenty point
leads just evaporate in the NBA like like water in
the desert, and I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
How do you feel about forty one point leads?

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Not so much?

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
That's so much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
I'm gonna pick the Pacers to win this game. Martin.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Hey, you know what bold statement there, Mark Wheel.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
That's what people tuned in the Fox Shorts radio for
going out on a limb like that. Right now, it's
eighty to thirty nine the scoring Game four the Pacers,
h what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Commanding three to one game lead? Eminent? Right now? I
have a commanding lead in game four.

Speaker 6 (01:04:56):
They do leave the series two games one right now,
but it would take a mirror to come back from
thirty nine, from forty one down eighty to thirty nine
to score. Miles Turner has eighteen points. Let's see, Tyres
Halliburton's got eleven. He's missed, He's got eleven. Here on
fifty percent from the floor. Pascal Siakam with twelve, obi

(01:05:16):
topping with thirteen the Cavalier side of things, the only
player in double figures is Donovan Mitchell with twelve points.
Took him eleven shots to get there. In the NHL,
the Star midway in the second intermission. That's the way
to say that Florida Panthers have a one to nothing
lead over the Maple Leafs going in Game four. Here,
the Maple Leafs lead the series two games to one.

(01:05:38):
Earlier today we saw a five to to win the
Stars over the Jets at three goals in the third
period to break a two to two tie.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
The Stars take a two to one series lead.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
There.

Speaker 6 (01:05:48):
In Major League Baseball, the Colorado Rockies lost twenty one
to nothing on Saturday, and today Bud Black lost his
job despite the team winning his winning their seventh game
of the season, they beat the pre nine to three,
but Bud Black relieved of his duties. Kyle Schwarber has
two home runs in Sunday Night Baseball right now, as

(01:06:08):
the Guardians are going into their last gasp pier going
to the bottom of the ninth inning trailing Philadelphia three
to nothing. Earlier today we start Mookie Betch and Freddie
Freeman both hit down home runs.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
Dodgers beat the Diamondbacks eight to one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Back to you guys, all right, man, thank you, Martin,
appreciate it, great stuff. I got a question for you
as he lays out what's going on in Indiana right
now with with the Pacers up eighty two thirty nine. Now, look,
you're facing the three to one deficit. But if I
am Kenny Atkinson, the coach of the year, I'm pulling

(01:06:47):
everybody right now, I'm pulling them Donovant, in fact, if
this is even possible, give me Donovan, Mitchell, Darius Garland,
Evan Mobley. Who else do I want to grab? Who
else do I want to grab? Let me take a
look at this, Jared Allen and maybe another key player

(01:07:11):
or two, and I'm I'm gonna call my travel secretary.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
Putting them on a plane in an hour. Those guys
out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
In an hour. We will see you back in Cleveland
for Game five, because that game is forty eight hours away.
And multiple NBA coaches i've heard talk on situations like
this say that, you know the difference between playing twenty
two minutes a night versus forty minutes a night in
these playoffs is monstrous in terms of the recovery. If

(01:07:45):
they say it, I've no choice to believe it. I've
never done it before, so I gotta believe them. And
if that's the case, dude, I hate to say it,
but you are now officially playing for a seven game series.
You're playing for a three game win streak. I am
not putting those guys out on the floor in the second.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
Half and do it and win with them, right, But
I bet he will of course?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Why why is that politics? No? But you you have
no chance to win this game.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
Well, because most people don't want to hear that you
essentially pulled the plug or you didn't no matter what
the deficit is. Nobody wants to hear, oh, you quit
on the team, you gave up. Nobody wants to answer
that question at the press conference at the end of
the game, like, hey, where are the guys? And he

(01:08:37):
was like, oh no, I sent him home at halftime, right,
Nobody wants to answer that as all of those guys
you mentioned are out here in the game except for
Donovan Mitchell.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Yeah, Mitchell's not. Mitchell's not starting the second half. Interesting,
but but you're right, Mobley, Alan, Darius Garland. They are.
So there's some sort of like, I don't know, some
sort of concoction here that that Adkinson is playing with.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
Something's going on, something, Maybe he's gonna get I'll give
you guys five minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
See what you can do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Well. Famously, that was the conversation Game five in Houston,
Warriors up three games to one, dude difference because they're up,
they're up in the series. But what are they down
at halftime? I think it was twenty seven or something
like that, And Steve Kerr said, as they're walking off

(01:09:36):
the court at halftime, he said, I didn't even need
to bring up the subject. I just looked at Draymond
and went, what do you think? And he said Draymond
Green looked at him and goes five minutes. In other words,
come back out of the court, give it five minutes.
If you can cut that twenty seven point lead to
seventeen or fifteen, okay, let's go for it. If not,

(01:10:00):
night night, and we'll see you for Game six. And
that's what they did, and then they lost Game six too.
But as you I think, I love what you said.
There's something in the human existence that I don't think
can be fixed, which is that when you're down and
you draw even you relax, Yeah, you feel like your

(01:10:21):
goal has been achieved, and it's not your goal. Your
goal is to win. But as you're trying to come back,
your goal changes to let's just get let's catch up,
and then you catch up and then you totally drop
your shoulders and then go ahead and lose. Anyway, happens
all the time. That's what happened to Houston.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
Like there you do run out of gas, like you do,
and so it's hard. You gotta think. This is what
I tell my teams when I coach, No matter what
we're down by, we're very rarely down. And look, and

(01:11:07):
I'm not just saying that, I'll give you the numbers.
So in that All Star tournament that we went through
and we won.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Yes, that great story for a few weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Yeah, we averaged forty two points a game. We gave
up twenty four points a game. Oh, that's that's what
it is. You averaged an eighteen point one. Yes, that's
a lot. So when we show up to the court,
that's eighteen points. It's eighteen nothing alright, now, that's just

(01:11:37):
what it is, right and so and and mind you
the championship went into double overtime, all right, and we
won that by three points, so you can imagine what
we were doing. It's a team. We have a philosophy.
If they don't score, they don't win.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
And so.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
What I always tell my team is get three stops
and three scores. No matter what you're down by, if
you get three stops and three scores, the other team
will call a timeout. So right now, if Cleveland wants
to get back into this game, they get three stops

(01:12:22):
and get three scores. What you can't do and you
have to start over every time you break that. So
if you get a stop, you come down, get a score,
then you come back down, you get a stop, you
come down, get a score, and you come back down
and you give up points.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Start over, start over, ye gotta start over.

Speaker 4 (01:12:38):
Three stops, three scores because essentially that could be an
eighteen point swing because if it's threes, right, if it's threes,
or it could be a twelve point swing because you
stop them from getting to and you score two, right,
so you that's six points for you and you take
away six points for them, so that's a twelve point

(01:12:58):
That's how they do that, right, So essentially with the
threes the way they are.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
That's a you know, an eighteen points wing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
That's how you have to compart when you're down. That's
you have to compartmentalize it like that. It's not we
got to get it all. Give me three stops, give
me three scores, and then we'll reassess after that. Can
you do it again? Can you get if you if
you do that, can you get three more?

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Oh my god? Right, like sorry, I'm just I'm just reacting.
I mean the Pacers are just on the layup line
right now. The Cavaliers are completely I've never seen easier
baskets just run down.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
The middle of the court.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Yeah, I'd get them off the court. Can you get
me three stops? Can you get me a plane? Like,
just give me a plane? Can we move this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
A ride to the airport?

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
You get me an uber? All right? Live? Fox Sports
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(01:14:09):
here on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Hey,
Draymond Green had some I guess controversial at least some
interesting statements to make. This was after the loss in
Game two that we want to get to at the
top of the hour. But coming up next, I do
not want to be devoid of the NFL. I have
got with all of our wide receiver discussion this year

(01:14:29):
to get your reaction to George Pickens on the Cowboys. Man,
it feels like, I mean, someone arriving home at Mecca.
It's almost as if how has that marriage not already
been the case to this point in his career. So
let's talk that out. Coming up next, Mark Willardy from
Salam Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio Radio.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
All right live in the Fox Sports Radio studios along
with it from Salam, I'm Mark, what'd you think? What
do you think of George Pickens to the Cowboys?

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
It makes sense for the Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
It makes sense for the Cowboys.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
Yeah, because they're doing things like that all the time.
I wasn't surprised. Others were like, yeah, all right, whatever
talk to me about the Cowboy. Well, they all seem
to always mismanage the off season, is what I mean.
They place value in places where others won't, and the

(01:15:32):
consequence of that is no playoff wins. That's that's what
I mean by the Cowboys now on papers like we
bolstered our receiving corps. That's what we needed to do
in YadA YadA YadA. How many wins does George Pickings

(01:15:53):
give you? Well, how many wins does that equate to?
Because when you do things like that give up draft picks,
you have to you have to be able to answer that,
does he get you a win? As your team is
currently constructed? Does he get you a win?

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
I mean probably probably not, That's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
So was it a good move or not?

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Well, yeah, probably not.

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
So that's that's how I feel about. That's where I
am with that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:32):
It's just one of those things where it's see, we're
doing things right, right, we're doing we're we're remember the
statement last year, we're all in on getting better. Remember
that was the Jerry Jones statement, and they didn't do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
No, and then now they've gone out to get basically
the one thing that they kind of already have you
know what I mean? And I understand what they're thinking.
They're thinking is that this is a by low target.
But and and did they really give up a whole

(01:17:10):
lot like they did this after the drafts?

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
They give a third round pick, that's a valuable.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
They give a third round pick, and and and they
also moved down around in the on Day three from
you know, they they gave up a fifth round pick
and moved to the sixth round, and so you know, yeah,
they give something up number one, but number two. My

(01:17:37):
question isn't even like can George pickings Like is he
going to go off for a game or two? Maybe?
Is he going to make life easier on Ceedee Lamb?
That's George's statement, whether it can't double both of us. Okay,
maybe the question becomes the ball? Can they run the ball?

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Can they protect a quarterback?

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Ken mc quarterback? Can they stay healthy? Right? All of
these but even when the season's overy from there's a
big question what happens if he plays well? Right? You
just made Ceedee Lamb, I'm pretty sure like the second
highest paid wide receiver in the history of the game.

(01:18:21):
So what happens if this goes well, then what the
hell are you gonna do? He's in a contract year.
What the hell are you gonna do if he plays well?
Are you doing sixty five million dollars for two wide
receivers when you're not running back?

Speaker 3 (01:18:37):
Oh? Man?

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
That So that's what I always wonder with the Cowboys.
Play this out. Play this out in your head, right,
what happens if it goes well? You like you taught
me this last year when they or it was a
couple of years ago when they got Trey Lance. You're like, well,
Jerry just wants people talking about them. And that's what
I felt like here too, because it's like, it's like

(01:19:00):
the Trey Lance thing. Play it out. What happens if
it goes well? The hell are you gonna do? You
just gave Dak Prescott sixty million dollars? So what if
Trey lit it up in practice and you liked him?
What do you like? And this is even worse, What
are you gonna do if it goes well? You have
to be prepared for that, and I don't think they are.

Speaker 4 (01:19:23):
No, But that's once again, Oh Jerry and the Dallas
Cowboys doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
It doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
He does feel like a cowboy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
Yeah you think, you think?

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
So there's that. So there's that, all right. Draymond Green
had some big statements after the Game two loss. We
haven't done much on that series. We'll do a little
bit more on that coming up next. Mark Weller and
Eave from salam Fox Sports Radio Sports. Yeah, off we
go into the night on a Sunday. Thank you for

(01:20:02):
kind of ending slash starting your week with us here
in the Fox Sports Radio studios. Lots to get to
coming down the stretch. Never mind, the stretch has already
taken place. They're stretching and getting ready already for Game
five between the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Indiana Pacers. That
Pacers are up by thirty four late in the third quarter,

(01:20:24):
as Martin Weis said, one, O, my gosh, yeah it is.
It's gonna be. It's gonna be a whole lot of
people you never heard of going the rest of the
way here. So the Eastern Conference has been interesting, and
certainly the West is two for multiple reasons. Now, I
personally think Oklahoma City righted the ship today. They got

(01:20:44):
home court back. They're probably in good shape. The vibe
in the Minnesota Golden State series is completely different because
you're you're missing a star now in that series, and honestly,
E I don't even know what to expect there. They're
a handful of Warrior fans I know who don't even
think they're going to get a game. They think this

(01:21:05):
thing is now gonna be over in five games, which
would be Wednesday night, which would kind of be a
shame because it sounds like there's a decent chance that
Steph could return Sunday for Game six if the Warriors
can somehow get there somehow.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Yeah, I don't see it happening.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
I just think as well as they played yesterday and
that was a great game.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
They probably should have wonted.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
That was a great game.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
That was the one they needed.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
They needed that one and not to get it.

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
That's why, And that's why I was saying the whole
Draymond thing, and I know we're gonna get into what
he said, but given that moment of what was going
on in that game, being in that game and fighting
and having an opportunity to steal that game without one
of the greatest shooters to ever play, and you foul

(01:21:58):
out of the game, I mean You just gotta know
the situation. You can't let emotion rule you to the
point of proving something are You just gotta be smarter.
I have the same problem with Westbrook. Sometimes you gotta

(01:22:21):
be a little bit more locked in, and he wasn't.
He picked up two fouls the fifth and the sixth,
and it was over and he didn't need him. You
didn't need him, And you don't have to throw your
hands up and you're not going to get the calls.
Draymond he has to realize he's created the narrative that

(01:22:45):
people are using for him. No one created that narrative
for him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Well, I was waiting all all week, quite frankly, to
get your response to this, because what we're about to
play for you did not happen last night. It happened
after Game two, happened after Game two. This game was
in Minnesota, Warriors got blown out. They're trying to Steve
Kerr kind of use the whole night as a tryout

(01:23:13):
to see who could kind of play together as they
reboot the team in the in the absence of Steph Curry.
And there was yet another technical foul in the game
for Draymond Green, and just as always a whole lot
going on. This one was the similar kind of technical
foul that we watched when you and I watched that
game seven together against Fred van Vliet last Sunday night,

(01:23:37):
which is Draymond gets fouled while he has the ball,
but then flails and uses that as an opportunity to
grab his right arm and thrust it somewhere in the
area of the neck of the the player who's just
fouled him. No chance that this happens on accident as
many times as it happened, so that what happens in

(01:24:00):
the game and the Warriors lose. Now keep in mind
there were also multiple fans kicked out of the arena
for allegedly throwing racial comments at Draymond on the sideline
and while he was on the exercise bike. So before

(01:24:21):
we go any further into that, take a listen to
the only comments that Draymond made after that game.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
It looked like the angry black man. I'm not an
angry black man.

Speaker 4 (01:24:30):
I'm a very successful, educated black man with a great family.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
And I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do.

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
To the agenda to try to keep making me look
like an angry black man is crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
I'm sick of it. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
And he walked off and that was the end of that.
And that sound came courtesy of Anthony Slater of The Athletic.
There are a couple other reporters there, and that's it.
So here was my question, because when I heard him
say that, I sort of felt like, well, we got
two story's going on at once here, two opinions going
on at once. And I heard what the entire national

(01:25:06):
media said, and I agree with it because it's quite, frankly,
an easy response and opinion to have. I mean, if Draymond,
what you're talking about is the way the refs officiate you,
I'm sorry, You've earned it. You've earned this. You have
earned this, no doubt. I don't know anybody who would

(01:25:29):
feel differently. I don't even know if Draymond himself feels differently.
He has spoken to this for years, saying and convincing
a very large portion of the Warrior fan base. Look,
it's kind of like what Westbrook said when he's like, oh,

(01:25:49):
you're gonna have to deal with some turnovers. It's the
way I play. Draymond's like, Look, do you like the
defense the way it is. Do you like these rings?
Do you like the way I set up Steph Curry?
Do you like the way I protect Steph Curry? Well?
This comes with that, and it's the only way I
know how to play, and I don't know how to
turn that on or off or walk the line. Okay,

(01:26:12):
if that's your response, that's your response, and you can
accept it. You cannot accept it. But there's absolutely no
question that the officials officiate him the way they do
because of his resume. However, are we one hundred percent
show that that's what he was talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
I don't know what he was talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
I mean, well, what about the way these things blend together?
I guess is my question. Well, look, what about the
way that the game looks and the way it is officiating?

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
Well, let me tell you this, and the.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Way the media covers it, and then the way that
that bleeds into the stand, well, let me tell you this.
Tell me about it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
Okay, So two things are happening here, right. No one.

Speaker 4 (01:27:09):
Is imposing a narrative of an angry black man, because
if you know Draymond, or if you've seen him out
off the court.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
There's no anger there. You're not angry, He's not.

Speaker 4 (01:27:21):
Are there any stories of Draymond in the bar or
at the grocery store getting into altercations with people?

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
There's one one.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
Slapping someone, one in him and and one what what.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
One it was?

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
Yeah, it was back at Michigan State, right, and he
open handed somebody at a bar, one child. Yeah, I
mean very very early, I think in his career, even
like it hadn't even really gotten going yet too much. Yeah. Now,
now people, because now I said the exact same thing
on whatever. I guess this would have been Friday. Yeah,

(01:28:00):
acting to this, I said, if somebody needs anger management, like,
they don't only have the anger when they're at work,
they have it at all times of their life.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
Every day now, every moment.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
Right now, A lot of people went.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
At your kids school, there recital, at the grocery store,
and he from.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
I like, because this team is the team that I'm
I'm around like not a lot, but I have. I
have had a couple of occasions where I'm around Raymond
Green away from a basketball game. He could not be
a more respectful, kind, look you in the eye, human being.

(01:28:43):
In my very limited.

Speaker 4 (01:28:44):
Experience, which it's true, I've been around Draymond. My brother
and him are extremely good friends. Okay, he's been to
the office, he's been part of events that we've had.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
It was pictures of us together, like so, I know
it's nice that I yes.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
So that narrative of him trying to give us the
narrative of an angry black man, No, Dremond, it's literally
about your actions on the court. You cannot scream at
a referee every single play for fifteen years and get

(01:29:27):
technicals for fifteen years, and be thrown out of games
and have flagrant fouls for fifteen years, and then tell
us that you're upset about the narrative of an angry
of you being the agenda of painting you as an

(01:29:48):
angry black man. That is not how that goes. That's
not how that goes. I myself have seen the flail
right in the Houston Rocket series. Remember when he rolled
over and kicked the man in the back of the
head when they were on the ground. He let his
head and his leg come down and slammed the man's Oh,

(01:30:10):
I was just rolling over. Remember a couple of years
ago and the Kings with the Kings and Sabonis and
Sabonus had grabbed the foot a little bit, but he
did a Superman jump kick and stomp on the chest.
Remember the kicking the balls, like all of those things,
no one, no one made you do that, or like

(01:30:32):
what is happening here?

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
But I guess like acknowledged everything that you just.

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
Your own teammate hold On pleaded.

Speaker 4 (01:30:43):
Remember last year, his own, the greatest shooter of all time,
the greatest person, the greatest Golden State Warrior ever, pleaded
with you and you couldn't stop.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
You got ejected in the game they needed last.

Speaker 4 (01:30:57):
Year, and he cried on the court. Yeah, because you
couldn't control yourself in the moment of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:31:09):
From he clocked a teammate and knocked him out cold
in practice. So this is all beyond obvious and acknowledge,
which is why I sort of brought it up. Because
every there's not one opinion. It's running during our commercial breaks.
There's Rob Parker ripping him and Dan Patrick ripping Everyone's

(01:31:31):
got the exact same reaction to this. The thing is
is that the clip was so quick and then he
walked off. There was no interaction back and forth. I
thought it really called for a follow up question that
wasn't allowed to be asked, And I want to know
what are you actually talking about, because I think everyone

(01:31:54):
grabbed it and went, dude, are you kidding me? The
officials aren't painting you out to be an angry black man.
Hold on, I'm not totally sure that that is exactly
what he meant. And you can even if it means
something different. You're allowed to disagree. You're allowed to still
despise Draymond Green the basketball player, all of this stuff,

(01:32:17):
but there are It is interesting that there are certain
guys out there who pushed the line. Can be Draymond,
can be Dylan Brooks, you can pick whoever you want.
They pushed the line, and I sort of wondered, I
don't know. I'm not gonna act like I know, but
my curiosity is especially as he spent so much time

(01:32:39):
on the sideline that night being called a you know
what and you know what by people who got thrown
out of the arena. Is he talking about sort of
the way that you play slash or officiated, therefore taken
to the media, therefore sent out to the fame, who

(01:33:01):
then think that this is you the human being versus
you the basketball player. And the way that you're officiated.
I don't know that he was mad at the refs
that night as much as he was the fan behavior,
and that his thought was the media takes the way
I play and sends this out to the world as

(01:33:25):
if that's representative of who I am as a human.

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
No, because the media doesn't have to send that out
to the world. We're watching it. You're sending it out
to the world. You're sending it out. Okay, we're sending
it out to the world.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
But you played in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (01:33:45):
I did.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
I guarantee you. You know tons of people who once
they go in between the lines, whoo, they become a
different person, a different person there you go. And I
think almost all football players, or at least many of them.
I've met some of the most soft spoken, kind people,
and then next thing you know, they're pulling people's hair

(01:34:06):
and fucking them under, like oh my god, oh my god.
And I So all I'm saying is I wonder if
this is a broader conversation than the way most reacted
to it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:34:22):
I Look, there are different connotations that come with the
phrase angry black man, right, painting you out to be
an angry black man. So just to speak on this,

(01:34:42):
society spent a lot of time. This is early on slavery,
after the emancipation, after you know, Jim crow To style, segregation,
civil rights. There is a narrative painted that African Americans

(01:35:03):
were criminals, they were angry, they were dangerous, right, and
even when you were defending yourself, the narrative would be
painted that, look at these animals, these angry black men.
So when you say something like that, there's an injustice

(01:35:25):
that you feel is happening to you on a larger scale,
on a social scale, not an athletic scale. So when
you make comments like angry black man, that goes into
the world, not just how you're officiated, because there's a

(01:35:48):
notion of the refs officiating them the way that they
do because you're black and you're angry. I don't see that.
What I see is a history of behavior that I think,
and your team mates and your coach think that is

(01:36:14):
a detriment. The man cried when he begged you to stop.
Your coach sat down and put his face in both
of his hands when he begged you to stop. That
is not this narrative of the world giving you this

(01:36:38):
moniker of an angry black man. That is, you can't
control yourself even when you have to and they need
you to. When you're playing your sport, not when you're
at the grocery store, not when you're at the school recital,
not when you're in drop off or pickup with your kids.

(01:37:01):
In the context of in a basketball game, you are
borderline reckless and flagrant as well as brilliant. That is
what we're talking about. Has nothing to do with this
notion of painting you with an agenda of being an

(01:37:24):
angry black man. So I took offense to that because
that's like saying I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:37:31):
Do anything, but you did. You did.

Speaker 4 (01:37:37):
Now what the fans are saying or what the fans
are saying that has nothing to do with the actual officiating,
what's going on on the court.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
No, but that can get to you.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
Well, of course I've.

Speaker 4 (01:37:48):
Been called everything, But guess what if I know I'm
not everything, what does it matter? That's the whole point.
I know I'm not everything for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
Everybody's wired differently though on how they handle that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:04):
And look, I've been in zones to where I'm a
maniac when I play. Sure, I spent three hours before
the game working myself up into a frenzy. Is not
conducive to being in the grocery store in that mind state.
But when I leave the stadium, that mind stt stays
in the locker room. Similar to Draymond Green, that persona

(01:38:28):
stays put. It doesn't come home with him well out
into the.

Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
World unless others continue to remind you of it or
chase you down with it. Hey man, look, you're not wrong.
There's nothing you've said that I don't understand. But I
like again, I think what he's talking about is the
blurring of the line between what he does on the
court and who he is off of it. That's all.

(01:38:56):
I think. That's what he was saying, and I could
be wrong. I haven't talked to him the out of
nobody else, nobody. He didn't allow anybody to pursue the conversation.
So one of his current teammates had his name come
up at a at a press conference this week, but
it wasn't his team who was talking about him. So

(01:39:16):
want to get to that coming up next as we
continue with me from Salama Mark Wheler, this is Fox
Sports Radio.

Speaker 5 (01:39:23):
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
All right live in the Fox Sports Radio studios shortly
after the show, pod cast goes up. If you missed
any of today's show you got check out the podcast.
Just search Fox Sports Radio wherever you get your podcast.
Be sure to follow and review the podcast rated a
five so that we don't feel bad about ourselves again.

(01:39:55):
Just search Fox Sports Radio wherever you get your podcasts,
and you'll see today's show p Right after we get
off of the air with from Salama, Mark Willard, Hey,
what do you do with this? Pat Riley did his
end of the year press conference with the Miami Heat.
Talked about the need for change and all kinds of

(01:40:19):
different things, all the exit interview stuff. One thing that
he did that grabbed people's eyebrows and sent him up
in the air, though, was he openly spoke about a
player on another team, and that would be none other
than Jimmy Butler. And he said, quote, I'm not going
to apologize for saying no on a contract extension when

(01:40:42):
we didn't have to, and I don't think I should
end quote pat Riley, who is eighty years old and
still running the show. We talked about it a little
bit a few weeks back. How does that quote grab you?

Speaker 4 (01:40:55):
I mean, it doesn't surprise me. That's what we surmised
what was going on. But business evolves, mentality evolves. You
can't run the franchise like you ran the franchise even
five years ago, I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:41:11):
Ten years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:41:12):
The money is too big, the collective bargaining agreement, the
salaries are going up, So you can't have the same
notion of I'm not doing it because we don't got
to do it or when we like It's the business
is happening differently around you, and so sometimes you have

(01:41:32):
to evolve and you have to keep pace with how
things are going and how negotiations are going. When I
came into the NFL, there were no early contracts. You
were going to play out once you played out, Like
you know, no matter when you got drafted, the team's
had your rights for at least four years. And you know,

(01:41:55):
if you're a late round draft pick in your fourth year,
they wouldn't restructure your kind or give you an extension,
and they would just high tender you and you know,
negotiate after that. Now three good years, it's time to
get the money. So business changes. Agents are savvier, players

(01:42:15):
are savvier, especially in a player a driven league. And
when you I mean, it's the same man who you
know essentially pushed Lebron out the door because he got
petty and took the chocolate chip cookies off the team flight,
Like that's a real thing, Like which if I'm Lebron

(01:42:36):
or someone of that statue stature, and you know, you know,
everybody knows this, and then you actively go out to
do something to spite me.

Speaker 3 (01:42:46):
Yeah, I'm probably gonna leave. I'm probably gonna leave.

Speaker 4 (01:42:51):
And the notion of will be fine without you, okay,
right right, And the only reason they were okay, you
just ran that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
Off exactly, all right. I actually got more than I
want to kind of say and ask you about with
this particular situation. But we're we're we would have to
apologize for saying no to Martin Weiss. So instead, let's
just say yes. Let's say yes to Martin Wise and
find out what's trending right now on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 6 (01:43:30):
The kids they call this B two A what we're
witnessing right now between Indiana and Cleveland, one twenty five
to ninety four.

Speaker 3 (01:43:37):
The score.

Speaker 6 (01:43:38):
It has not been close basically at any point in
this game. The end the score they ended the first
quarter was thirty eight to twenty three. Again now it's
one twenty five to ninety four with four minutes and
twenty four seconds left.

Speaker 3 (01:43:50):
That we all wish they could just as seem to
end at this point.

Speaker 6 (01:43:54):
But the Indiana Pacers have been led and scoring by
you know, you're having a good game and we have
multiple twenty points scores. Pascal Siaka with twenty one turner
with twenty obi topping with twenty from off the bench.
Tz McConnell had thirteen. Bend Mattheron got ejected in this game.
He played exactly one minute. He and DeAndre Hunter had
a back and forth. Donovan Mitchell still the lead. No, no, no,

(01:44:18):
I'm sorry. Darius Garland has twenty one points for Cleveland.
He's their leading scorer. Donovan Mitchell coming in second there
with twelve. He hasn't played in the second half, was injured,
you know, didn't come out like wouldn't have played regardless,
probably because the way that things go going. But heard
a report from the broadcast that he is not. He
has an ankle thing that they're looking at right now.

(01:44:38):
Have more on that after the game is over. The
Maple Leafs and the Panthers. Panthers tie the series up
with a two to nothing win. Tonight it's now two
to two as Game five will go back to Toronto.
Earlier today in the NFL, we saw the Dallas Stars
beat the Winnipeg Jets with three third period goals to
make a five to win. They take a two to

(01:44:59):
win series lead. In the NBA, the Thunder tied the
series up ninety two to eighty seven when Chay Gildess
Alexander with twenty five points and six rebounds. Neither team
shot particularly well from the floor. You know that when
the winning team who's thirty five and a half percent
from the field. Yeah, it was a rock fight in
Oklahoma City there. That series goes back to sorry, the

(01:45:21):
rock fight in Denver. The Scheris was back to Oklahoma
City for Game five. In Major League Baseball, Bud Black
has been relieved of his duties as manager of the
Colorado Rockies. A twenty one twenty one to nothing lost
on Saturday, probably the main reason there seven and thirty three,
the record for the Colorado Rockies. But they did get
that seventh win today. So Bud Black goes out of winner,

(01:45:43):
defeating the Padres ninth to three. Freddy Freeman Mookie Bets
both at home runs as the Dodgers beat the Diamondbacks
eight to one. Kyle Schwarber had two home runs as
the Phillies beat the Guardians three to nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
In Sunday Night Baseball. Back to you.

Speaker 2 (01:45:56):
Guys, Okay, Martin Gray stuff tonight. I appreciates you so much.
I got a question for you from So I'm just
gonna like, off the top of my head, some of
the more famous holdouts that we've known about in in
the history of sports. Emmett Smith missed regular season games
one time. Remember that? Yeah, Okay, did he bail on

(01:46:18):
his team? Oh he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:46:20):
No, he bailed on his team to get that money, right, But.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
Like, so should his teammates be like, what the hell, dude,
you bailed on us?

Speaker 3 (01:46:28):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
No, well they they knew that, and Jerry knew. Right
after that oh and two start, there was like, all right, well,
let's get this thing done.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
Trent Williams shout out, what a whole season in Washington.

Speaker 4 (01:46:39):
Right, mm hmm bail on his team that I would say.

Speaker 2 (01:46:48):
Yeah he did.

Speaker 3 (01:46:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:46:50):
Why yeah, because you know he was well, he almost
did the same thing to the forty nine ers.

Speaker 2 (01:46:56):
Is right. He didn't. He didn't miss any regular season.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
Games, right, but he was under contract, really under contract.

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
For like three more years.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
I mean, so was Emmon Smith.

Speaker 3 (01:47:08):
Yeah that was. I think that was a little bit different.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Because he was in the final year of his deal. Yes, okay, great,
let's stay right there.

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
Then.

Speaker 2 (01:47:22):
Why why is Jimmy Butler the one who quote bailed
on his team with the Miami Heat. Is I saw
him at the time when he was with Miami. I
saw him constantly get called out for a quote his

(01:47:42):
handling of the situation, even though it was often when
he wasn't there because the team suspended him right for
not being there. Pat Riley is now openly out in
the media saying, I'm not going to apologize for the
fact that, yes, he was due for a contra tracked
extension and we didn't want to We didn't want to

(01:48:03):
do anything about it, and we didn't have to at
that time, so we didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:48:07):
Now, not wanting the player, how is.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
That different than EMMITTT. Smith or any other when NFL
players hold out, we don't do this to them.

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
No, And I can tell you why.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
What's the difference.

Speaker 4 (01:48:19):
Their money is not guaranteed. Okay, so there's a difference there. Now,
so follow me here. There's a difference. Oh, if Jimmy
Butler three years ago signed a one hundred and fifty
million dollars deal, he's gonna get a hundred fifty million
dollars no matter what, whether he's on that team or not.
He's gonna get one hundred and fifty million dollars. Right now,
if for somebody in the NFL signs one hundred and

(01:48:40):
fifty million dollars to the first thing we look at
is the guarantee money. If the guaranteed money is seventy million,
that's all he's the team is on the hook for.

Speaker 2 (01:48:49):
That's correct, But that's at the beginning of the deal.
I get if we're talking about the end of the deal,
like EMMITTT. Smith was under contract and was guaranteed for
that final year because he was still on the team,
and if he shows up, he gets that money.

Speaker 3 (01:49:06):
Which was different paid based on what he had done, no.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
Doubt, no doubt, And and and I and I think
that Jimmy Butler would argue, you traded me to another team.
I grabbed that team that was one game under five
hundred and completely vitalized them because okay, so he too.

Speaker 3 (01:49:27):
I would argue what Riley was in the wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
See, that's what I'm getting he was in.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
The wrong, Ron James, he was in the wrong. Like
this whole my way of the high this is what's
going to be like that is not the way that
in the NBA is doing business.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
Now were the only two saying this, that's what That's
what I'm getting at.

Speaker 3 (01:49:48):
Yeah, I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (01:49:51):
There's handling of this. What do you what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:49:54):
Like the man told him, we're not doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
And he said neither my. Then he was like, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:49:59):
Then, but we yeah I want to be traded. No, okay,
well well you go home? All right?

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
Okay? Yeah, yeah, Like I again, I'm just not I
was never offended by it.

Speaker 4 (01:50:12):
I know, doing things to prove a point, you're probably
in the wrong. So if you're pat Riley and you're
doing things or you feel a certain way and you
you take the cookies off the plane, you're in the wrong. Yeah,
that's that's not I mean, what is not what we're
doing right.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
Well, it's fascinating that in twenty twenty five that we
have so many fans that when they'll see situations like this,
they will completely and I don't think they mean to,
but they will line up to take the side of
ownership by saying things such as, well, you sign the contract,

(01:50:50):
you need to honor the deal.

Speaker 3 (01:50:52):
No, it doesn't look like that, and.

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
And and the team, and I know your point about
baseball basketball, these are guaranteed contracts. I understand that, but
there is also a process and there are rules around
the idea of what the extension timing is when you're
going into a contract year. And if ownership is like,

(01:51:14):
we're not talking about this, then I will almost always
support an athlete who doesn't want to put his or
her body on the line for someone who's like, we're
not we're not taking care of you beyond this year.

Speaker 3 (01:51:27):
Yeah, that's that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:28):
Like when your money isn't guaranteed, then yes, it's the
conversation is different because now essentially that team wants you
to go out and give the effort you gave the
previous year, which was well above market value.

Speaker 3 (01:51:46):
And they want to get that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:48):
The risk of injury in that in football is you
don't really want to take chances like that, correct, Like
that's a dangerous game to play because the own like, ugh,
we dodged that bullet, you know what I mean. When
you're fully guaranteed, when you're locked in and no matter what,

(01:52:08):
whatever that is that you signed, that's what you're taking home,
no matter what. That's a different conversation. If you got
three years left on a fully guaranteed deal and you
want more money, then it's like, okay, well, now if
ownership says, now, how many deals, how many years was
left on Jimmy's deal?

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
Just one? Just one?

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
This is when you This is when you negotiate, and
that's what he did. That's when everybody wants to negotiating. Now,
if you don't want that player, then you don't want
that player. Now this may have been we don't want him,
we want to try to get something for him because
we're not going to even sign them after next year.
Then that's a different conversation. And you can paint that
however you want to in the media, right Like you

(01:52:51):
can be like, yeah, we're not gonna be pushed around
or whatever when you had no intent of re signing
them anywhere, which I understand, but look, you're in a
situation where we know who Jimmy Butler is Jimmy Buckets,
and so did Golden State Warriors, so did all those
players on Miami. Eric Sposter knw who he was and

(01:53:12):
what he meant to a team, asked God, and Golden
State signed him to an extension.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
Correct, Yes, they did two more years after this one.

Speaker 4 (01:53:19):
Right, he walked in and they were like, oh no,
this is different, this is different. And so yeah, you
can build on a player like that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:27):
You can. He can take over games.

Speaker 4 (01:53:30):
He can put you in position to do something great,
especially in the playoffs. And he's showing that. I mean,
he's been phenomenal with Golden State. Increased their defensive prowess
which was already high, increased their scoring output when Steph
goes to the bench, things that they struggled with. He's
a leader in the locker room. The relationship him and

(01:53:50):
Buddy he'll have together. I can watch them all day
every day, But that comes with the chemistry that comes
with the with who Jimmy Butler is.

Speaker 3 (01:53:59):
He's hard, he's rough, but he likes to win.

Speaker 4 (01:54:02):
And when you're in a situation where you don't feel
as a player at everybody else's is on the same page,
then you get a little prickly. He was prickly in Chicago,
Remember he got prickly in Minnesota. Prickly everywhere has ever been,
you know, and so you gotta know that's what you're
signing up for when you sign up for Jimmy Butler.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Speaking of injuries and contracts and the NFL, that was
some pretty big news that came out yesterday and and
his left one franchise totally naked. We'll get to that
coming up next with e from Salama, Mark Willard. It's
Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:54:44):
You don't listening to Fox Sports Radio Radio.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
As always, it's been Funday night, best pregame show every weekend.
We invite you to tune in to Fox Sports Radio's
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(01:55:09):
radio and the iHeartRadio app. Okay, big man, how the
hell did the Saints end up here? I mean, it's
not like we didn't get a clue about this a
few months ago, well before the draft, and you know,

(01:55:32):
maybe they're just maybe they're just isn't uh or weren't
great quarterback prospects in the draft according to the Saints.
Maybe that's kind of how they played it. But we
started to get word of, like things threatening Derek Carr's
season a couple of months ago. They did grab this kid,

(01:55:55):
Tyler Shuck the last name that you don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:55:58):
Oh shucks.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
Because it's completely misspelled, but whatever, and they grab him,
what I think, in round two of the of the draft.
But Derek Carr is retired and the Saints have Tyler
Shutt and Spencer Rattler and Jake Hayner. Oh goodness boy,

(01:56:25):
if I like, I mean, sign me up for season tickets.
I just that's all NFL teams get caught, I know.
And then sometimes maybe they've already got their eye on
a prospect in the draft for next year. Maybe, but
it sort of feels like they split the difference, like

(01:56:46):
they use the second round pick on the position but
it also doesn't feel like they were all in on
finding a quarterback. And you can't do that. Gosh, you
can't do that. I'm still sitting here wonder what the
hell the Pittsburgh Steelers are doing, Like, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:57:05):
I don't know, but.

Speaker 4 (01:57:12):
I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to, you know,
reach out to teams like the Bear I mean the
Browns and and I think I think the Browns put
themselves in a position to where, you know, teams will
be looking to acquire one of the nine quarterbacks that
they have.

Speaker 3 (01:57:34):
At some point.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
And what happened to Kirk Cousins. I mean, the Falcons
are not going to send him in the division, but
what happened to that situation? Yeah, they're just gonna sit there.

Speaker 4 (01:57:44):
No, I was surmised that someone will be reaching out
trying to acquire it. It'll be some movement. The Saints
can't go into the season with all shucks and and
Spencer Rattler.

Speaker 2 (01:57:56):
Or or or do they want to make a call
to Aaron Rodgers? Oh well yeah, I mean they weren't
in the mix, but now they're in the mix, right
and said he doesn't care when he gets paid.

Speaker 4 (01:58:10):
Yeah, I mean, you know, most sought after free agent,
after free agencies and after the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:58:18):
I guess, I just I honestly, that's where my head goes.
The NFL is such incredible theater that it's like I
get that there's teams that are down, there's teams that
are up. There's things that you know, there's things that
you don't. You can't start the season when everybody knows

(01:58:42):
like you don't, like you just ignored. It's like what
the Raiders did last year. You can't ignore the position.
Like that's the whole. It's the head of the beast,
it's the star of the show.

Speaker 3 (01:58:56):
Yeah, just because you're ignored, it doesn't mean it's gonna
go away, right.

Speaker 2 (01:59:01):
I mean I think it gets, it gets worse.

Speaker 4 (01:59:03):
So I the less attention you paid pay to it
where it gets right.

Speaker 2 (01:59:09):
So like a relationship man, that whole that the whole
division in many ways feels like it's almost been quarterback
repellent for a few years now. And I know they've
got some things going on, and Baker has done better,
and now Pennix is in the division, and you know
old Bryce Young showed a little pop or whatever. But
I Yeah, I just feel bad for those for those

(01:59:31):
fans when you know you're offering names that you know
are not the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:59:38):
All the old paper bags coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:59:40):
Oh man, they were there for a long time. He
ain't the long time. Hey Man, great to talk to
you again.

Speaker 3 (01:59:46):
Absolutely, Happy Mother's Day all.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
Indeed, Happy Mother's Day to everybody out there playing and spend.
You're coming up next on Fox Sports Radio.

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