The Book of Joe: Deals or No Deals?

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci recap Hall of Fame weekend sharing stories of Jim Leyland, Adrian Beltre, Todd Helton, and Joe Mauer.  The Trading Deadline is July 30th.  Which teams are looking to deal and what contenders will be stocking the shelves.  Tom offers up several names on the block while Joe explains why some deals shouldn't be done!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey thereon Welcome Back You Found the latest edition of
the Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci and
Joe Madden and Joe, we're going to get to the

(00:24):
looming trade deadline coming up, and I especially want to
get your personal take on having gone through so many
of them yourself as a manager.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
But speaking of managers, I think we need to.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Cap off the Hall of Fame induction Jim Leland going
into the Hall of Fame, but first we have to
also congratulate the former players going in Todd Helton, Adrian
Beltray and Joe Mauer and Joe. I brought up Jim
Leland because, you know, listening to Jim and seeing some
of the old clips from Jim Leland, I got this
feeling that kind of the last of a breed going in.

(00:57):
I mean the famous clip of Jim airing out Barry Bonds,
the best.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Player on his team.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
It's spring training on the field with cameras there, and
so the stories players told about some of his famous
clubhouse meetings. My favorite one was Jim Leland telling his
guys after another tough loss.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I think he was with Detroit at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
When you guys leave here, you might get arrested for
impersonating major league ballplayers. I mean, come on, Joe, guys
couldn't do that. I wouldn't dare to do something like
that now. So first of all, give me your take
Jim Leland, why he's a Hall of Famer and whether
that style could work at all today.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
I mean I got introduced to Jimmy primarily through Don
Zimmer years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Zim and Jim were very close.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
And then of course I worked against him and I
watched him, et cetera. And he did it the right way.
I think the way he came up through the ranks,
how he served as a third base coach in the
big leagues, I became a manager, and he took a
Pittsburgh team that was kind of nowhere, and eventually they
became very good. When's this World Series in Miami, and
then eventually gets at Troyton, does a great job there too.

(02:05):
I mean, he just every stop he went to know
there was some badgers just when you're rebuilding, you're going
to be faced with some really lean times too. But
I mean he's his impact everywhere he went as obvious,
and the impact was there because I believe of Jim Leland,
because of who he is, how he conducted himself, his personality,

(02:26):
the charisma that he generated, his baseball acumen, his fearlessness,
all these things were at working on display whenever this
guy was in a dug And I remember my first
encounter I think was in Detroit versus him as a
manager when I was with the race and I was
weirded out that morning. I mean, I got to manage
against Jim Leland today. That's all I could think about.

(02:48):
And I remember they put a hit and run play
on and I had Wiggi coming in ty Wigington Hart
at first base. Thought they were going to butt Pom.
There was a bullet hit passed him into right field.
Just little things like that that he made you stay
on your toes, you know, like the saying goes just
never missed anything. But again, and just like you said,

(03:08):
the relating of the story about impersonating major league baseball players,
straight up man my best mentors, coaches, managers, whatever that
I've ever had in charge of me. With the straight
up guys always know where you stood, and you always had.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
To you'd have to diick skin and be willing.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
To absorb some of that stuff. Funny. I mean it
was funny. It was biting at the time, but after
you got done with it, you'd all go out together,
have a couple of beers and laugh at what the
guy said because it was it was true but funny
at the same time. So it's you're right, it's not
going to happen anymore. Everybody's I'm somewhat afraid to call
out players in that regarding players really can't handle that

(03:47):
kind of truth anymore. So it's it is a dying breed.
It's the end of an era. I'm so happy for
me and I become friends, but there's so many things.
And at the end of the day, he's in the
Hall of Fame because Jim Leland was Jim Leland and
not anybody else.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
That's well said, and I will point this out that
you have a lot of similarities with Jim Leland. Both
of you took rebuilding teams and turned them around within
three years to be World Series teams. Neither one of
you played a day in the major leagues, which I
still find remarkable. It's a very short list of guys
who didn't do that. And wound up winning the World

(04:26):
Series as a manager. Jim Leland, by the way, only
Joe McCarthy won more games as a major league manager
without playing major league baseball. I mean, that's remarkable. He
won more than seventeen hundred games. Joe, your win total
is almost fourteen hundred. People got to realize that when
you don't play major league baseball. I think the dues

(04:48):
you have to pay to climb the ladder is it's higher,
There's no question about it.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
And Jim, like you. Joe talked about.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
All those years in the minor leagues and the fact
that when he did get to the major leagues he
felt like there really was very few situa that he
had not already seen. He felt he was so prepared
to run a game. And when I think of Jim Leland,
I think of two things. Number one, and you hit
on this, Joe is honesty, and I think that's why

(05:16):
players connected to him. And I think that's why he
was a sort of a father figure where he could
scold players at the same time they knew it was
coming from a very good place. It was never about
Jim Leland himself. He cared about the team and the players,
so there were never any grudges when he did.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Vents on his players. And the other thing is the
way he ran a game.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Jim Leland was one of the guys who taught me
early on that the manager's job is to put people
in the best position to succeed. And if you look
back over the years on Jim Leland, most of his
teams did not have a lockdown closer sort of like
you as well, Joe, that you know, it wasn't paint
by numbers managing late in the game where you have
a seventh inning guy, eighth in any guy, ninth inning guy

(05:58):
and you kind of keep your hands in your pocket
for the end of the game.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
He had to mix a match.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
He had to find the Stanbo Linda's of the world
to try to find a way the Joaquin ben was
to end a game. And I always thought it was
interesting that, you know, whether it was asking guys who
could bunt to bunt and not.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Asking those who couldn't bunt to bunt.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Or you know, matching up the right pitchers in the
right spot. He was a master, I thought, at putting
players in the right spot.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Well, the thing that you said, prepared to run the game.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
A that's the thing about managing and coaching in the
minor leagues for so many years. That was my time
in high school, undergrad graduate school, get your doctorate, whatever.
Not done anymore. It's not done anymore. A lot of
the guys that have assented to that job right now
have just walked into that. They've walked in the door,

(06:45):
and they become a major league manager for me, and
I'm sure Jimmy would say the same thing. I can't
even imagine. I cannot even imagine that. Again, like jim
stayed at there, you were prepared for almost anything that
came up in the game. I can even tell you
exactly where I was when I had that thought that
eventually I utilize in a major league game at some point.

(07:06):
So that is absolutely true. I really wish that that
would occur more often. I've talked to like David Ross,
I talked to Gabe Kapler, I've talked to these guys
that have ascended in the recent past that have become
major league managers. And there's others I can't think about
the top of my head, but I encourage them. Why
don't you ask somebody to scout first of all, to

(07:29):
be a free agent scout, get out there, go to
some high schools, go to some colleges, junior colleges, etc.
Prepare for a draft right reports, understand the breakdown of
a player, what he looks like before he becomes a
major league player. I said, at least a year. I
would hope to do it for two years. And with
that ask if you can manage their rookie ball club.
You're going to see everything from A to Z and

(07:52):
in between in a rookie league game, regarding some good
stuff and just mallaprops, things that just are going to
go wrong, right down to just the conversations with the
players at the time. I had to talk to Mark
mclum or in a hotel room in Salem Morgan week
end of the season. He wanted to go home. He
was missing San Diego, and I had to convinced him.

(08:12):
I said, Mark called them fluff. Listen, everything you miss
back home in San Diego no longer exists.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
That was last year, your senior year in high school.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
All your buddies are doing something different, the places you
hung out are different.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Everything is different.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
I promise you, if you go home right now, you're
going to be bored and want to be back within
one week and convince them to stay. These are the
kind of things that you learn, the conversations to learn
to have with these different players under different stressful circumstances.
It goes beyond the exces and o's of the game,
and these are an outposts. These are the time I
confronted Paul Casolino in a hotel room after he gave

(08:51):
up a lead, because the guy through almost one hundred
miles and now he comes out of the bullpen thrown
in the mid eighties really literally ready to strangle him
in a hotel room. So this is like, these are
the things that happened in the minor leagues that invaluable
regarding what you feel like in a major league dugout
during the game. And then finally Jimmy was able to

(09:13):
make decisions based on this experience, where today a lot
of the managers are making decisions based on maybe a
pregame meeting with analysts whatever. People come downstairs and they
kind of tell you what to think. And that's the
part that bothers me because people don't even know what

(09:34):
they think anywhere because they've not been through situations that
have challenged them.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
It's all been ready made.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
It's like it's almost like looking in a recipe book,
and this is the recipe. This is what you're supposed
to do when you're faced with this situation. This is
how you're supposed to react. But never having lived it,
Jimmy lived it. I've lived it, and I'm internally grateful
for that, and that's why I feel in my position
that I did earn after I've never played in the
big leagues, which today it doesn't even matter anymore. At

(10:02):
that time, that's what I really believed kept me from
getting to the big league sooner, was.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
The fact that I hadn't played there.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Those are the kind of things that I'd like to
see necessary than they are actually right now, because I'm
telling you, the guys in the Dugat will be more
prepared if they go through all of this stringent training
that is so important and would just make them better
at their craft, and I think it would make the
game better too.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
It's all good points, Joe, and I'll have one more
thing that you know why we can't have another Jim
Leland these days. I think when Jim addressed his players,
they knew that the decisions that he made were his decisions.
And I think you alluded to this that players know
there's so much on hand help pregame even during the

(10:46):
game about what a manager should do or shouldn't do
that if you're a player, you're not sure that that lineup,
for instance, is totally the manager's doing right. So I
think they understand that the power dynamic has changed, that
the front office does have more power than the manager.
The buck doesn't stop with the manager, and I think

(11:07):
the players know that. So it's kind of hard for
a manager, you know, to really sell that kind of discipline,
if you will, to a player when the player is
going to roll his eyes and say, well, the reason
I'm not playing, the reason you're playing this guy is
because of a B or C. Because this is coming
from upstairs. I think it's a hard thing for today's manager.
In some ways, today's manager has a harder job than

(11:27):
ever before because of the power dynamic.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, and I do think that in spite of all
the mediocrity and teams having bad records, everybody keeps asking me, like,
when is so and still going to get replaced this
and he's not getting replaced. It's a different It's different
right now. It's the way things roll. I mean, for
front officers to fire managers midseason these days, they almost
have to fire themselves because they're the ones that are

(11:50):
really dictating how this thing comes down. And regardless of
what anybody wants to say, it is true. And I'm
not denigrating the guys in the dug. I love these
I mean these are friends of mine. These guys are
very bright baseball people. But you get your hands titled
up a little bit because if you have innate wisdom
or feel for the game, it better work. It just

(12:12):
better work, because if it fails, you're going to get
to the point where you'll get beaten down by the
fact that if somebody's gonna be in your office the
moment the game is over, it's incredible. That's part of that.
The thing that I didn't like was when a bad
game occurred. I mean, people come down in the locker
room within minutes after a tough loss, and a lot

(12:34):
of times they'll come down within minutes after a tough
loss and they'll start challenging or questioning coaches and managers.
It's a tough way to live when you are confronted
with that. Just think about it. How would you absolutely
constantly make a decision maybe a little controversial in house
because you know if it doesn't go well, what it's

(12:55):
going to feel like post. I mean, some guys are
strong enough to not worry about that, others are not.
But that's part of the landscape. So when it comes
down to the decision making today, just think about it
in your own personal offices wherever you work. If you
chose to make a decision knowing it might be controversial
based on what had been talked about before the game
with the higher ups, and if game over it doesn't

(13:17):
work out well, you're answering questions that really insult your
intelligence as a baseball person in your years of having
done this, whereas they have not. And I'm just trying
to tell you guys the truth right now.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
It's not like I'm banging on anybody.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
I'm not. But this is part of what occurs right now.
That is why mediocrity is occurring, because everybody's working off
the same sheet of music. And it's also why nobody's
going anywhere because the midday of the managers have been
turned into a middle managers. And like I said before,
I think we're just steps away from the becoming head

(13:52):
coaches with hitsets on.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, and I'll add one more to that after listening
to Jim Leelan, by the way, his speech was really
really good. It's exactly what you thought. It was touching
and it was humorous. And those kind of personnalites just
don't show. I mean, they're probably there, but they're not
allowed to be shown in today's games, so we're not
seeing that type of manager real quick. On the other
Hall of Fame inductions, Joe, I just want to get

(14:15):
your take on guys. I'm sure you competed against on
the other side of the field first, and I'll give
you my quick takes of what I took away. Because
they're all familiar names. We all know about their numbers
and stats. But I'll start with Todd Helton. Todd Helton
to me, was one of the best left on left
hitters that I've seen, at least in this generation since
the mound was lowered in nineteen sixty nine. He's actually

(14:36):
one of the five best left on left hitters of
all time. Only three players got fifty or more played
appearances against Randy Johnson. It was Sean Green, Barry Bond
and Todd Helton. Why do I bring that up. I
saw a lot of guys take a day off against
Randy Johnson left handed hitters, and you know this, Joe
and Todd Helton was the guy who wanted to play
every day, wanted the challenge, never gave any ground. Maybe

(14:58):
that's part of his football background, but watching him hit
kind of like Big Pop.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
He just never gave ground on left handed pitching. The
great hitter.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
We all know that, but I think that's a level
that that should be recognized.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
No question. Just a tough tough out. The best way
I can describe it is the guy always showed up.
He was always there. That that guy was always there
and he brought his skills and his tools and his
makeup every day.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
I think it was a quarterback in football Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Correct, he was.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yeah. There's such a competitive component to him. And I
think when you when you've played that position on a
high level, you're you're gonna be uh abnormally competitive and
you're gonna believe that you can do anything. And he's
not going to back down, you know, back down from
an aggressive defense. That does a whole bunch of different things, stunts,
whatever in front of your face. You're going to get

(15:48):
smoke once in a while. There's a toughness that's bred
from that, and there's there's a toughness you want to
believe if you're left handed and you're staying in the
box versus Randy Johnson.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
With the delivery where the ball is coming from.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
How big he was, how tall he was, and how
incredibly talented he was. Yeah, it takes a lot. It
takes a lot, and you're right to not big out
on those days. Is big And I think that's all
you have to say regarding him is how well he
did against Leptanners and the fact that he stood in
there against Randy Johnson consistently just a really steady baseball player.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, and not just and then hit two seventy one
against Randy Johnson over all those plate appearances.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
That's impressive.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Adrian Belchray speaking of impressive, did everything well on a
baseball field, and my main takeaway is the joy he
showed playing baseball. I mean that guy also like Todd Helton,
you know, he played hurt a lot. You could not
get that guy out of the lineup because his love
of playing the game of baseball was so high. Most
amazing thing for me, Joe is he played third base

(16:52):
in the major leagues for a long long time, over
three thousand hits. And Adrian Beltrade never wore a protective
cup playing third base.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
I mean that is just now. Listen.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
There was one time where he was reminded very much
of that, and it hurt a lot, but he still
refused to wear a cup even after getting hit.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
There.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
You talk about good hands, I guess that's the definition.
I don't recommend it, but he did it for years.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
I coached third base with a cup. I never got
on a You never got on a field without a cup.
If you're on that field, you wear a protective cup.
That's that borders on insanity. You remember him, of course
when he came up and then he kind of went
away for a bit. He hit a slump. I don't
remember the exact years of it, but we went up
to Seattle. It wasn't from the Dodgers to Seattle. Things

(17:42):
kind of got kind of fuck yeah. I didn't know
that he was going to like resurge, and he did. Possibly.
I mean, I've seen a lot of good third basement.
I don't know you've seen anybody as good as him
coming in on the ball the way we feeled it,
the slow roller of the bunt and planted his foot
and kind of fell away from first bass he threw,

(18:03):
which really activated his wrist. And he had an incredibly
strong and accurate arm, so defensively you had that offensively,
once he found his mojo again, he beat the Rays
in the playoffs one game single handedly at the Trophy,
had three home runs. I think they scored three runs.
They beat the Streak too or something like that. We

(18:23):
lost to Texas a couple of years in the playoffs.
They got us out of the playoffs, and he was
the primary reason why that occurred. Just like a really
good player. But like you said, I love the joy
for the game, and that sometimes is underestimated. And that's
the one thing that you never want to subtract from
the player. I mean, never get in a way of
greatness and never get in the way of somebody's joy either.

(18:46):
I mean, listen, he played it with the utmost respect,
but it was always a smile or smirk on his
face because he, like you suggested, he loved to play
the game. And I'm here to tell you not everybody does.
Not everybody does. Some guys do it. They like to
get paid like that, but they don't always have that
joy because in order to have that joy, you have
to be able to, I think, confront failure in a

(19:08):
way that it doesn't get to you. And that's that's
the main ingredient why I think guys can go joyfully
out every day through good or bad.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
And I think he was able to do that.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
But one of the most accurate, incredibly sound fielding third
baseman I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, by the way, that play you mentioned and I
agree with you, coming in on this slow roller as
good as I've ever seen. He would never practice that play.
And the reason he said he never wanted to overthink it.
He didn't want it to be a technical play. He
did it just on pure athletic ability and just responding
to the moment.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
And that's the way his body worked. And I just
kind of love that.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Organic way of playing third base, at least on that
particular play. Joe Mauer, Listen, Joe, He's a guy I
think as a manager, a front office guy, as a fan,
I mean, you name it. He is a professionals professional.
He's the person that you watched go about his business,
and you would copy what he did because it seemed

(20:05):
like he did everything right. And my favorite story is
about before games. It's not his whole career, but there
was a stretch in his career he wanted to eat
a tuna melt sandwich before every game, and he did
this for a couple of years. And Joe Mauer being
Joe Mauer, which is like this incredible great hitter, prepared

(20:25):
for everything, just reacted the right way to every situation,
was such an influence in the clubhouse that the other
Twins players, especially the young ones, started eating tuna melt
sandwiches before every game as well.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
That's what you want to do, you want to be
Joe Mauer.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
I think that says a lot about Joe Mauer the person,
even more so than the player.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
First of all, that sounds awful, but okay, and I
thought I thought when he was started out and I
first saw him, if I were to start a major
league ball club, he would be my.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
First draft choice.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Before that, I thought it was Pudge Rodriguez.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Then it became Joe Mauer.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
And when his catching skills were still in place and
he's able to move, God, he was so good at throwing.
He was very strong arm, quick arm, very accurate arm.
Not even talking about his offense right now, but he
was a really good receiver, and it appeared as though
he had command of his pitching staffs. And he had
this like this real comfortable personality about him. I don't

(21:23):
know what he was like in a clubhouse or in
a meeting, but on the field, these seemed.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
To be always in control of his emotions.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
And I think the pitcher's kind of dug on that
offensively couldn't get him out. I mean, because he went
from line to line. He was hard to really pitch to.
And he was hard in a difficult moment because he
was going to concede and do different things based on
what the pitcher was giving him, which I always appreciated
about him too. So a really complete baseball player. I

(21:51):
know he moved the first base eventually. I thought, once
that happened, is part of his value diminished at that point.
But when he was behind the plate man number one,
number one pick for me to start a franchise.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's high praise.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Indeed, by the way Joe Mauer and Todd Helton, I
think the number now is fifty three, the number of
Hall of Famers who never played for another team.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
One team. I mean, that is ideal, doesn't happen often.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
But speaking of guys switching teams, when we get back
here on the Book of Joe podcast, we're going to
talk about the teams that will drive the trade deadline,
not necessarily the players, but what teams are holding the
cards the trade deadline goes through. Well, we'll tell you
which teams coming up next.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Joe.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
It's trade deadline time, and last year, I guess you
would say it went through the New York Mets because
they dropped out of the race and basically put everybody
out of the market and moved everybody. We're talking about
Max Schurzer, Justin Verlander, Tommy fam Mark Canna, David Robertson
some really good pieces, and they were very active kind
of restock their farm system. I think they took advantage

(23:06):
of that opportunity and did pretty well.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
This year.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
I would say that Joe the team to watch in
a similar vein the Chicago White Sox, which is crazy
because last year, you know, they moved Lucas Gielito over
in a the Lopez Lance Lynn, Joe Kelly, and here
they are again.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Do they move Garrett Crochet? Do they move Luis Robert?

Speaker 1 (23:28):
I mean, they've got Eric Fetti, They've got a lot
of interesting parts there.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
And Tommy fam again.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
And I do think that they should be active Joe,
because yes, you can say we can move these guys
in the offseason. There's no urgency to move them now.
But I think it's a seller's market. You've got so
many teams in the playoff mix here and not very
many sellers. And if I'm one of these playoff teams,
I want, for instance, Garrett Crochet not just for this year,

(23:56):
but for the next two postseason runs. So that's an
extra postseason run you get with a guy like Garrett Crochet.
So I think Chris gets the White Sox. They're under
the gun a little bit here. It's easy to say
we don't have to move them, but I think the
timing makes it more important to move them now.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
So give me your take on the Chicago White Sox.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
Well, yeah, and beyond all of that, what is it
like to be on a team that absorbs that much
losing and the psyche of the player himself? I mean,
is it reasonable to believe that we're going to be
able to rebuild with the same players that are going
to be a part of a team that is rivaling
the early Mets teams in the sixties when they lost

(24:37):
so many games. There's a part of it, man, I
would be concerned with. I would be concerned with I
have to really be judicious and regarding who I thought
could withstand at who I absolutely believe cannot we cannot
live without. But otherwise I would open it up absolutely.
I don't even can imagine what their strategy is right now.

(24:58):
It almost seems you know that they really I don't
want to say, don't care, but they've accept that the
fact that we're going to be that bad. We don't
It doesn't really matter to us at this point. If
we said any kind of losing records but moving forward, Matt,
I would be just culturally. I'd be concerned with the
inner workings of this the manager and how he thinks

(25:19):
and his confidence. Listen, you know I'd absorbed one hundred
lost seasons with the Rays my first year and then
really close on the second years. Now, for me, quite frankly,
I felt I really thought strongly about what we were
doing and what I thought, and he didn't take it
personally necessarily. So these are the kind of thoughts as
a GM in the front office whatever, I have to

(25:40):
really understand that about my people. What is this, How
has this impacted you psychologically, your confidence, et cetera. So yes,
superficially on the surface, you'd have to the White Sox
should be wide open. They should be open for business
for some obvious like you talk about Crochet. But beyond that,
internally is what is it done to our group?

Speaker 3 (26:01):
And is it? Is it?

Speaker 4 (26:03):
How as long is it going to take us to
flip this culture? This is a magnificent number of losses
and to get back to the point where you have
self confidence and you feel good about yourself and you
know our strategies, our thoughts are just stay with them,
They're going to work. It takes a real strong person
to believe that.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, and I think you do have to be honest
with where you're at. Like Garrett Crochet, you do have
him here for two years after this year, But is
that part of the White Sox championship window? Are they
going to be competing for championship in the next two No,
they have too far to go. In my book, so
you listen on Crochet. Here's the problem I see with
the Crochet Joe. I think they're valuing him as a

(26:41):
number one starter because that's the way he's pitched this year.
I mean, he has been lights out, but he's already
pitched more innings in a season than he ever has.
He's already had this Tommy John surgery, and I think
teams looking to trade for Garrett Crochet are concerned about
the innings he's thrown already and do they have to
massage that over the second the last two months of

(27:02):
the season, and then what is he when they get
to this seventh month. So I think the White Sox
the way they value Crochet and the way that a
trading partner values Crochet might not match up.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
That's exactly right. But like you said, if there's a
long term component to him, if you feel assured that
you're going to be able to sign this guy long term,
or if my thought with him would be this too,
based on your innings pitch and the fact that he's
been really pitcher, et cetera. How about if a team
just needs some really help, really big help in the
bullpen right now, could you slot him back into bullpen

(27:36):
for the rest of this season, you know, just say,
you know, August, September, October, if the team legitimately has
a chance to go to the World Series, would you
then consider him something like that, consider him an opener
possibly under those circumstances where a team seeing the playoff
situation is going to face other teams with really good
left handed here is particularly at the top of the

(27:56):
batting order. Would you just open with him for several
innings and then move it along.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Is that a possibility?

Speaker 4 (28:01):
I think you have to get creative because there is
something to that. If he's had TJ already and he's
not been a starter, and all of a sudden we're
putting this exceptional load on him, and things going to
ramp up internally mentally too when you get to that
part of the year, and then what's going to happen
off season going to the next season.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
So there are legitimate concerns.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
So I think the team that's going to acquire him
has to be thinking about that creatively this year and
how we're going to get the most out of him
right now and then hopefully into next year we could
reevaluate and get him stretched out again.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
And know that he's going to be capable of doing more.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
So I think this is the conversations about him are
going to, like I said, include things other than just
be a starter for the rest of the season.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
I like the way you're thinking there, Joe, and I
think being creative is in play here. Even you mentioned
the possibility of opening or you know, maybe he's a
two inning bullpen guy for you just come in and
shut the game down and leave him out there and
finish the game. He can definitely do that. But again
the problem is, if I've got that on my radar,
then the price is not as high as trading for

(29:05):
a true number one starter who's going to start, you know,
game two of the postseason for you. So we'll see
how that aligns. Here's another team, Joe, I think who
the trade deadline goes through, not as obvious as White Sox,
and that's the Tampa Bay Rays. They're on the fringes
of the race here, and we know it's very tight,
especially in the American League East. You know, they're not

(29:25):
a great offensive team. They've been around five hundred for
most of the season, haven't really gotten truly hot. They've
already traded the Iron Savali and Phil Maton basically because
they had people coming back from injuries. I don't think
that was a signal that, hey, we're giving things up.
That was more about roster construction. But hey, they're looking
at you know, Randy Rosa, Reina, Zach Eflin, Peter Fairbanks,

(29:49):
East Sach Parades. They've got some really nice pieces and
we'll see where they go, Joe. But I think it
wouldn't surprise me if the Rays try to thread the needle,
as the executives like to say, and move maybe not
all those guys, but maybe a guy like f One
who's got tremendous value in this market short of starting pitching,

(30:10):
uh and still hang in there in the race. You know,
they can do some unpredictable things there in Tampa.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
We know that, Joe.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Give me your sense of where they are at the deadline,
how much they'll be a factor, DNA.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
That's who they are, and I do believe that they'll
be very pragmatic trying to evaluate what's going to happen,
what they can possibly do this season, and obviously they're
always going to have their five year plan in place,
So I think that some of those guys will get
traded that you mentioned they're gonna have. They definitely have
one one on the present, but I think the stronger

(30:43):
eyes on the future. So I totally believe that a
lot of those names that you mentioned will be on
the market.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
I see that for easily. I don't even know that.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
They probably have some dudes in the minor leagues with
that we've heard very little about, but they like a
lot that are eventually going to surface. So yeah, I
think they are absolutely going to do something like that.
They'll be, like I said, very pragmatic, honest with themselves
in evaluating what's going on right now, and they always
always have to look into the future, look into that

(31:13):
crystal ball financially as well as athletically talent wise. So
I think they'd be a great trade partner and a
lot of those guys you just mentioned are going to
be out there absolutely.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Here's another one hard to get a read on Toronto
Blue Jays. Listen, they've got less than a one percent
chance of making the playoffs if you believe some of
those websites that track these things. Basically, it just tells
you that they're a long shot to be in the postseason.
They have not played well this year. I've always thought,
at least the last three or four years, Joe, the
team has been overrated. It's just not a really deep team.

(31:46):
And they've gone back even farther offensively this year. You know, listen,
they've spent four hundred million dollars to renovate that ballpark
there in Toronto. It's a big market team, it's built
a win. It does have a core of some young players,
especially Bobashett and lat Guerrero Junior. But they're going nowhere
right now. The key question for that front office now

(32:08):
is do they take advantage of this trade deadline to
pivot to something else. I'm not talking about a total rebuild,
but I think they're an interesting player because they've got
Chad Green and Emy Garcia in the bullpen, and I
think both of them will bring.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Back a lot of value.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
You say, Kokuchi and the rotation is a rental starter
for somebody who could start a postseason game. And then
there's Lad Guerrero Junior. Bobaishet is hurt right now, so
that's not likely to happen. But here's my take on
Vlad Joe. I think he's too good to trade I
don't think you pull the plug right now on trading

(32:46):
a franchise hitter like that. To me, I think he
should play his entire career with the Toronto Blue Jays,
and I think you see if you get an extension
done this offseason. You know, after a slow start to
the year in April, he's had a really good year.
His bat to ball skills are extraordinary. I think there's
a lot of great baseball ahead of him. I just
don't think you trade a great young hitter like this

(33:07):
because you're having a down season. I think the minute
you trade Blad Guerrero Junior, you're looking for another Blad
Guerrero Junior.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
So do I take him off the table totally? No.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I mean if somebody wants to completely overpay, I consider it,
But I would not be motivated to move a hitter
like Glad.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah. I mean, everybody's looking for hitters, and furthermore, they
they're looking for hitters, so why would you just dump
them in a move right now that could be from
a distance, appears to be popular. We're trying to rebuild, pivot,
whatever the word might be, and so this is a
valuable chip. Let's move him. He's still young. Great DNA
with him. I use that twice. Another DNA component with

(33:46):
his daddy. Back to ball skills must be hereditary. He's young,
he's still going to get better. I think he cares. Yeah,
that'd be a hard one for me to move.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
The other pieces are more easily understandable. But beyond all
of that, it's just a method of play. And you'll
see a lot of good stuff out there. You see
a lot of athleticism out there. You see some guys
you really like out there, but it just hasn't worked.
I watched them play and I and like I've said
this before, the Blue Jays need a definite Blue Jay identity.

(34:20):
And back in the day when they were really good
in the nineties, my god, top to bottom, these guys
would just grind you to a halt. They were very good,
obviously talented, but you did not want to play in
that ballpark. That's one of those ballparks that should be
a home court advantage, just like the trop in Tampa
or Saint Petersburg, because it's a building that you don't

(34:41):
want to go into and it has its cavernous and
it's although I haven't seen that the redo up at
the Toronto yet, but there was always this you didn't
like walking in that door, and it should be a
home field advantage and they need to take advantage of that.
And I might suggestionly just be to really be aware
of creating an identity and how we're going to do this,
how we're going to play. Really, I would demand more

(35:02):
of the guys technically regarding their method of play and
tie it up. Just tying up that defense our base
when you just tighten it up. Because again, that ball
I used to call the trop the pit. I wanted
it to become the pit. And I thought we should
have an overwhelmingly good record in that ballpark because nobody
wants to walk in. I think we went up fifty

(35:23):
five games there one season leading into a playoff.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yere.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
So these are the kind of things I would focus
on if I were them, not necessarily training a vladder
or bow whatever they are, You're going to look for
those exact two same guys. If you got rid of them, you'd,
like you said, the bullpen pieces are much more amenable.
And Kakuchi Yahi saw him throw the other day. He
looked really good, I thought, but be really focused on
what are we doing here, and what are we trying
to get done here? And how are we going to

(35:48):
build this and to what are we going to demand
from our players? New ballpark in a sense really a
rabbit fan base when things are going well. Wonderful city.
So those are the kind of things for me when
I talk about Toronto that when I watch, I see
as being or lacking or missing.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Two more teams. We have to hit on the Dodgers
and the Yankees. First.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
The Dodgers. Okay, I talked about last year. The Dodgers.
They were very active. They get Joe Kelly, they get
Lance Lynn, Enrique Hernandez, Ryan Yarborough, Ahmad Versario, all incremental pieces, right,
trying to find these little advantages, maybe fill.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
In some holes. It really didn't work. It had no impact.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
It was interesting to hear Andrew Friedman, who obviously you
know very well Joe, talk about how and Brandon Gome
said this the general manager, and you also had him
that they're looking for an impact pitcher. And I think
they feel like their system and they've seen some of
these young guys come up. They feel like, you know,
the incremental moves probably not better than what they have

(36:50):
on hand, but having someone of certainty in that rotation
with so many question marks about injuries is paramount. And
I know their number one choice is Trek Schoolbal Detroit Tigers.
Why not one of the best pitchers, and actually, since
the second half of last season, I think he's been
the best pitcher in baseball. You get two more years

(37:11):
of control after this one left handed throws up her nineties,
great command of the baseball. Why not, right, I'm not
sure the Tigers, well, I know they're not motivated to
move him.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
You'd have to blow them away.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's possible you could do that, and the Dodgers and
the Orioles are the two teams that have the farm
systems to do that.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
It's probably not going to happen.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
If you want to overpay, you can get Trek Schouball,
I believe that. I'm not sure that's in Andrew's DNA
to borrow your phrase. But the other choice is Crochet,
And you've got another picture kind of like a lot
of other guys you have where you have innings limits
on them. Let me get your take on the Dodgers
and with all their uncertainties about when Yamamoto comes back,

(37:52):
the innings of Tyler Glass now, Clayton Kershaw is now
coming back. Walker Buehler's really scuffled coming back from Tommy
John surgery. Bobby Miller is trying to reset mechanics in
his head and back on track. A lot of what
is with that rotation, and that's been their problem getting
bounced to the postseason the last couple of years. Do
you believe the Dodgers come out of this deadline with

(38:13):
either schoolball or Crochet?

Speaker 3 (38:16):
I definitely believe they're being targeted.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Schooble to me, listen, I've been a first time I
saw the guy throw a baseball, I said, wow, who
is that? So I could totally understand. I haven't seen
him in a couple of years, but in person on
the field, that is nasty, good stuff, with a great attitude,
great mount presence. So I don't I mean, how many
years does he have left?

Speaker 2 (38:36):
He's got two more after this as well.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
So you got him for three Pennant races three yet
three octobers.

Speaker 4 (38:42):
I don't know. I mean, if I'm the troad, I
don't like that. I mean, this guy's that good. This
guy would rather build around him to get rid of him.
Personally Crochet. Again, the point with that was going to
be that you just mentioned all the Dodger pictures that
are on the men. I don't even know what their
due dates are. But they could then look at a
guy like Crochet and build around and fit around. Not

(39:05):
desire so many innings, but at least we talked about
the opener at least make me think of him as
a five inning guy for the rest of the season,
and then filling after him fill in the blank. So
that's again creativity, that's what they're gonna be thinking. I
know Gomer, Brandon, Golmes, I know Andrew of course, so
I would have to believe they're gonna go after school.

(39:25):
I agree with that, but I don't if I'm Scotti Harris,
I traded him, not not gonna do it. So Crochet's
more likely. But how about just Anderson down with the Angels.
I mean, I know he's not this dynamic name, but
this guy has been really really good, good two years ago,
toughyer last year, right now, he's been outstanding, and he's

(39:45):
been there before, right, he's been a Dodger before he
has So I mean, if that's the name to me,
that makes the most sense. I don't think that Perry
would be opposed to trading or I don't even know
if Artie would be. It would be already's called to
be trading within the city boundaries there. But that's a
guy I would go after if I'm in if I'm
in a race right now, he's having that kind of

(40:06):
a year and been kind of dynamic every game. He
pitches really low numbers on the other team. Spart hits
balls and play, he's got his strikeouts, et cetera. So
out of all these left handers, to me, Schooball, I
don't think is going to happen. Crochet comes with limitations,
Anderson might be the guy.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
And finally, the New York Yankees, listen, they clearly missed
John Carlos Stanton. We know about his injury history and
it's hard to count on him staying healthy. Once he
does come back to the lineup, he will make a difference.
But Joe, you see a lot of the Yankees. You
see how shallow that lineup is, and I think they're
in a very tough place because they continue to give
at bats to Labor Torres and DJ Lemayhew And I'm sorry,

(40:48):
it's just not happening with both of those guys. They've
getting very little production out of their infield this year,
like historically low. They need another bat, at least one
more bat in that lineup. I just don't see it
happening with DJ The bat speed just is not there, Torres,
it's the walk here or not. Just has not been
very productive on the offensive side. Where do the Yankees go?

(41:10):
You can talk about bullpen as well. I think they're starting.
Pitching is fine. Garrett Cale looks great, by the way, after,
you know, needing a couple of starts to get his
arm strength back.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
But give me your take on the Yankees.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
You saw that quote from Luis Sevarino joking about his
former team. Hey, they've got two guys there and so too,
and Judge I can walk around them and pitch to
everybody else. It pretty much encapsulates where the Yankees offense
is right now.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
I'm living among so many Yankee fans here in Pennsylvania,
and I've been saying that to these guys for weeks.
Right now, it's true. You know, you just can't walk
away from the truth. It is true, and they do
need to do something offensively. I'm a big le Mayhew guy.
But gosh, I mean, he just lost the right side
of the field hard. If he could just regain that
too many rollover stuff. I don't even know what his

(41:57):
approach is, and maybe he's cheating a bit whatever, but
I saw him sting a ball to the second basement
yesterday which looked more like his. But he's got to
get back to that side of the field.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Gliber I don't know.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
I mean when I had him as a kid, this
kid is a really nice person, but the game has
really fluctuated a bit, et cetera. So yeah, you got
to get a bat and an infield bad.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
I mean again, I'm gonna go to my angel roots.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
I mean, Luis Renhifo is having himself a pretty good season,
and he's a switch hitter and he can play all
over the place. He's a strong kid, he's a great kid,
and he's the kind of guy that can fit in
in a situation.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
I think like that.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
And again, I just without going through all the different
teams with the Eagles definitely should be in that mode
where they're gonna trade somebody. I like Grendifo. I like
Grendifo there because he could play third or second base
for them.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
He could do either one.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
He's a switch hitter, but I think he's been hitting
the ball really well right handed this year. He's got
some serious pop. He's not tall, but he's strong and
like I said, he's just a great kid. He could throw.
You could throw them in the outfield in a pinch also,
But that would be an interesting acquisition for me for
the Yankees. As Renhipo, his game has got better. He's
a guy that in the past meet he'd always mental

(43:07):
mistakes would pop up on him. I don't even know
what's going on more recently, but physically talent wise, there's
a lot of that in there. And as a guy
on a team, he fits in with any locker room.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
He's a wonderful young man.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
That's a great call. I had not heard that, not
thought of that. That's a really good fit. I like
that one.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Let's see if it happens. Hey, we're going to take
a quick break, Joe.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
When we get back, I want to talk to you
about the manager's perspective of the trade deadline.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Should you be expecting moves?

Speaker 1 (43:35):
What's it like running a clubhouse that makes moves or
doesn't make moves? Joe's hurt history with the deadline. We'll
talk about that right after this. So Joe, this time

(43:56):
of year, I don't know about you as a manager
if you thought about this, but covering the game, I
think about this a lot. On what the trade deadline
can do for a clubhouse. We saw when the Brewers
traded Josh Hater, when the Mariners traded Kendall Graveman. You know,
there can be a negative effect in the clubhouse when
you're subtracting players. On the flip side of that is,
sometimes when you add a big player, it does invigorate

(44:19):
a clubhouse. So you know, I went back and I
looked at the teams you managed, Joe and what happened
at the deadline, And it was interesting looking back at
the Rays and how little your teams did your contending teams,
you know, trying to win a World.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Series, very little of what you did at the deadline.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I mean, for instance, two thousand and eight, nothing really
in July and August, Chad.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
Brad, Matt Chad loved Matt Chad.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
And Jorge Volandi, right, I mean, I guess you got
used to the fact that the cavalry wasn't riding in
to the trap to save a season.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Never expected a Chad Bradford though, was a big part
of that. I remember we played a five man infield
in Seattle with Chad pitching because he could throw a
ground ball with Beltray hitting, and we ended up with
a five two three double play to get out of
that thing. Right too, I think Willie Ibar was at
third base at the moment. Love Chad Bradford. I think

(45:21):
with the Cubby's Kintana was kind of like one of
those guys, and of course Chapman was with the Cubbies,
so but you're right though with the razor was not
a whole lot of that happening emotional. That's both ways.
When a guy walks in the door that you really
perceived to be helpful, there's an absolute lift. There's a

(45:41):
buoyancy to the clubhouse when because they're always talking, they're
always expecting, they're always talking about the front office trying
to be helping us, and that's kind of like the
dialogue at that time of the year. So when it
does occur, there normally is an emotional component to it
in an uplifting way. And then conversely, when it doesn't happen,
sometimes it could you could feel the air out of

(46:04):
the balloon, kind of an effect, and guys will just
start a narrative among each other about how upset they
are about nothing happening right there. And for me, one
of my lines with the rais was always about, you know,
we were very happy with the guys we have in
the clubhouse, and the guys in the clubhouse have to
look to one another to realize that the organization has

(46:24):
confidence or faith in you that we could do with
what we have. So it's up to the guys here
to get it done. So there's all kinds of different
items happening at that time when you get to that
time of the year, acquisition or no acquisition. One other
point and brought this up briestly happened with the Angels
in ninety five when we lost that huge lead. If

(46:47):
you remember, Gary DiSarcina got injured sliding into second base,
I was the first base coach at that time. Slid
in the second base, pull this thumb back, screwed them up.
We had to move Damian easily from second to short.
And on that team we had Rex Hudler and Spike Ohmes,
two veterans, you know, really well liked play. Actually we're
playing pretty well overall, and likely appointments to second base. However,

(47:11):
we went on got Chico lean, and Chico came in
and that did not work. Another fa fact he did
not play well. But also from the perspective that these
are two really you know, instrumental veterans on the team
that aren't getting this opportunity. So that did not go
That went over like the proverbial lead balloon. That did
not go over well. So my point is look in

(47:32):
house first to make sure that you're especially like if
you have somebody think it is kind of popular within
a group and is more than addequate that they can't
fulfill a role. Because when you bring somebody in the door,
the players have to see that this guy coming against
actually going to help us be better, make us better.
When it's a push kind of a move, when you

(47:52):
already have that person in house, sometimes it could backpart.
So these are all the little thoughts that I have
when if I'm being asked at that time, like we're
thinking about so and so, what do you about this guy?
And then the one moment in ninety five always sticks
in my mind, and if I thought it was more
of a lateral move. I would make sure I made
my point to the GM whomever if it was an

(48:16):
easily understandable it's gonna it's an ascending move, absolutely, let's
go for it. But the one that's lateral sometimes be
careful with that. So there's all these different thoughts and
ideas that I learned going through that ninety five moment.
And I believe me, man, when somebody walks in your
door that really is perceived to be there to elevate,

(48:38):
it can't pick up the entire.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Clubhouse clubhouse chemistry. Wow, it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
I hadn't thought about that of bringing in a lateral
move and how that fits in After eight here's some
other moves in July and August. By the rays of
your teams, it's not much, folks, Jose Lobaton, you got
Sean Rodriguez, but you trained Scott Kashmir, Chad Crawls and

(49:04):
nothing at all, Ryan Roberts, Ben Francisco, Jesse Crane, David
de Hazu's I mean that you're not adding a lot
year after year after year. And then twenty fourteen you
traded David Price. The team was five and a half
games out of a playoff spot. You know, two games
under five hundred. In today's game, you would say you're

(49:25):
still in it with the third wildcard, right, But that
was it.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
That's that's the announcement that we're out. You trade David
Price to Detroit.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Yeah, and that's so you look at that and you
try to understand what they're gonna do this year, and
it's pretty obvious.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
I mean, that's that will.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
That's definitely within their mindset. Yeah, it was. I never
really expected anything to be moved in a magnificent way,
like we're talking about somebody walks into clubhouse in easily
the guys say, wow, this is really going to help us.
I never expected it, and it never did happen. We
got a lot of nice pieces like you spoke about.

(50:00):
I mean, that was a big part of the methods there.
We were all into the ying and the yang. I mean,
we wanted the if there wasn't an everyday player at
a position.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
And we knew that.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
We also we wanted the opposite guy to the left
or the righty to be able to pinch it or
match up to start a game kind of a situation.
So that that was a big part of our landscape.
I think it still is a big part of their landscape.
The platoon advantages it's known today. That's pretty much how
we were built with the Rays. Again, if you and
I think everybody, it's pretty simple. If you don't have

(50:33):
an everyday guy, somebody that you're playing to be everyday
player at a particular position, you best have a back
and forth there right in the left, somebody that's able
to balance this whole thing out. So that's what it
was about with the Rays. And so we weren't going
to spend that money. You had to be creative. You
had to And that's why I bet Denny and I
loved it because you know, then I was able to

(50:55):
focus or rely on my experience that I've had conversations
with Andrews and the Boy, Andrew and the Boys, and
Eric and him at that time, always really interesting, James Klick,
all these guys were there. So we had good conversation.
We had a plan, and you knew what you had
and so you knew you had to work it in
that way. And I'm telling you, Matt, it was waking up.

(51:17):
Go from my bike ride, think about offense, think about defense,
all the different strategies and strategies and situations that would
occur that night, and all your different pieces at your disposal,
because there was pieces that are disposed. They might not
have been high falutin names, but there's pieces at our disposal.
It really there was an intellectual stimulation about all that

(51:38):
that I really enjoyed managing the race.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
And then you go to the Cubs and you see
the complete other side, Joe, I mean, real quickly. Whatever
was needed for the Cubs, they pretty much tried to
get it done. Twenty fifteen, Dan Harron, Tommy Hunter, Fernando
Rudney as you call them, Austin Jackson, next year, of course,
the big eldest Chapman deal, twenty seventeen, Alex Zavila, Justin Wilson,

(52:03):
and then in twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Cole Hamils, Brandon Kinsler, Daniel Murphy.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
In twenty nineteen, Nick Castianos, Tony Kemp. A lot going
on there, Joe, in terms of bringing in pieces to
try to win championships.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Two different worlds completely.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
You know where we always talked about with the Rays
they had to make moves, knowing that they had to
be right and not make mistakes. With the Cubs, they didn't.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Necessarily have to be as right as.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
The Rays did because you had more finances at your disposal,
So it was a different kind.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Of mindset completely.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
You're definitely going to shop at different stores, spend more
money with the Cubs, and again, of course you wanted
it to go right, but if it didn't go right,
you could always attempt to acquire somebody else. The rules
were a little bit different back then with the waiver
claims in August, so there was a different setup completely.
So Rays you always felt you could not make a

(52:59):
mistake because if you did, it could screw you up
for years with the Cubs. If you made a mistake,
you could alway fix it financially.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Lots of quans for you.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Joe on that, how much do you think the manager
now is involved in these kind of discussions in terms
of team needs? And then you brought up a great
point about you know what it means for clubhouse chemistry.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
Yeah, what happens today is again front offices and analytical departments.
So it will be busy accumulating names and thoughts regarding
who they like, and then Gim will come down to
you and float a name or two by you. What
do you think about this guy, how do you think
he fits, ETC's And they might even ask you gratuitously, what.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Do you think you need?

Speaker 4 (53:38):
What do you think we need as part of the conversation,
and then go back and basically do whatever they want.
But I think that's a good thing because baseball has
played every day. As Major League managers coaches, we don't
get to scout, we get to see it. We see
other teams, and we get to see you know, if
you're in your own division, you see a certain player
maybe several times in that year for other divisions at

(54:00):
that time, where other leagues very on a very limited basis.
So I've in the eighties and the nineties or whatever,
I always thought it was inappropriate and wrong that the
manager had so much say and who was acquired and
who was traded. I think you can make a lot
of mistakes that way, and coaches it's hard to be
good evaluators when guys like that are really evaluating based

(54:21):
on today, and there's no when I on the present,
when I in the future, And quite frankly, some are
not very good evaluators. I've thought managers and coaches, So
I think it's wise too and it's a better way
to rely on front offices and analytical departments to really
be of assistance at this time of the year, because
I believe that's the most impressive part about analytics is

(54:45):
that they should be utilized completely when it comes to
acquisitional process. I think that's where analytics actually shine. So
I think from a manager's perspective in this time of
the year, you know, say what you want to say,
but get out of the way and really rely on
people that are there and that's their job. So me
for me, GMS GM owners should own GMS, a GM scouting,

(55:08):
the apartment should scout, managers should manage, and coaches should coach.
I like in separation of powers, and this is the
time of the year. To me that probably the most
important part of an organization, the one that makes you
good or not so good, is those that are in
charge of evaluation and getting people in the door. That's
the separator.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Why are the Dodgers good?

Speaker 4 (55:27):
They have good players who where some teams not so good,
their players aren't as good. And so I do like
the method and play right now. I wish it had
been in play in the eighties and the nineties because
I thought with the Angels, we made a lot of
mistakes based on emotion and knee jerk as opposed to
well thought out reasons why you did something.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
The day is Tuesday, July thirtieth, that's trade deadline day.
It's always a big day in the count and it
has a lot of say in terms of who wins
the World Series or it gets to the World Series.
I just go back to last year. The Texas Rangers
at the deadline were scuffling. They were in a two
and seven slump in which their lead had gone from

(56:06):
four and a half games to one. They went out
there and they got Max schurz Er, Jordan Montgomery, Austin Hedges,
Chris Stratton. They won their next eight games, and in
that eight game stretch, Montgomery and Surezer won three to
ohero and you talk about invigorating a team, and they rode,
obviously those two starters all the way to a World Championship.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
It moves not necessarily always that big.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
You think of guys like Marco Scutero, you know, Steve Pierce,
guys who wound up playing big roles who weren't big names.
But I'm telling you, at the deadline and the couple
of days before, just about every team in contention, and
I mean I mean this, just about every team and
contention will make a move and probably does have to
make a move, because this is your last chance to

(56:51):
really set your roster to what you're taking into October.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Fascinating time of year, Joe.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
I loved listening to your explanation about what it means
from a manager's perspective, and I'm wondering what yacht for
us tonight to take us out here in this latest
edition of the Book of Joe Podcasts.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
Well, my reasoning for my quote of the day was
based on just a general situation we're faced with in
the United States that the President Biden stepping down out
of the next election, Kamala Harris being kind of ordained,
et cetera. And this definitely applies today. And my problem

(57:30):
with that is that opinion is so manufactured through the
media these days that I don't know that people think
enough for themselves. I think people just pretty much will
adopt the last thing said as their own, and I
think that happens too often. And the way where we
do generate information today through social media and the way

(57:50):
the news is generated on television, et cetera. I think
it is. It's there to overwhelm and it's there to
change your opinion on things, which you always should accumulate information.
I agree with that. But then at the end of
the day, please make up your own mind. So I
came up with today, Never judge someone by the opinion
of others. Never judge someone by the opinion of others.
And this was from Frank McCourt who wrote, I think

(58:14):
Angela's Ashes remember that book a couple of years ago.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Sure, absolutely, I read that book.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
I was really powerful.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
It's a little bit wordy, but I still liked it.
You have to study and learn so that you make
up your own mind about history and everything else. But
you can't make up an empty mind. Stalk your mind,
stalk your mind. You might be poor, your shoes might
be broken, but your mind is a palace. And I
love that. And if you ever read or read Angela's

(58:41):
Ashes or watch the movie adaptation, you'll see that. Over
in Ireland's kind of a destitute kind of a situation.
But nevertheless, regardless of where you come from, you should
still study and make up your own mind. And that's
that's one thing that bothers me is that the way
opinion is generated now, and how it's everybody's worked so

(59:02):
hard to to get everybody to group think or think
the same way.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
A lot of exec you talk.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
I'm not into it. So I thought Frank McCourt's quote
was great and never judge someone by the opinion of others.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yeah, that's perfect, Joe.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
I mean, it's so well written to keep in mind
these days because we are overly influenced by the opinions
of others, and in many cases others we don't even know,
don't even know where this opinion is coming from.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
So correct, beautiful words.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
As always, Joe, you close it out one, two, three,
in the ninth, nice going.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Love being the closer. Buddy, Thank you man.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
See you next time on the Book of Joe.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
See you, Buddy.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
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