The Book of Joe: 2025 Playoff Previews and Managerial Changes

Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci are ready for the MLB playoffs and Tom thinks the keyword for the postseason is 'power'.  Joe talks about his philosophy in the playoffs and how some managers change routines or gameplans.  Tom looks at the four teams with byes and how they'll spend the time off.  We discuss every playoff matchup and the managerial matchups we've seen with possibly more to come.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aron, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts.
You are listening to the Playoff Preview edition of the
Book of Joe Playoff Baseball, Joe Madden, this is what

(00:26):
we have here. I'm Tom Berducci, of course, and I'm
gonna give you my quick thumbnail on what the postseason
is and I want your take, Joe, and then we'll
get into some of these matchups coming up. I'd love
to say it the tournament is about who plays the
most clean baseball and does the little things to win.
The more I watch it the last few years, the
more I think it's about power on the mound, power

(00:48):
at the plate. I say this all the time. The
last five World champions have all finished in the top
four in home runs during the regular season. So if
you go by that metric, and I'm not saying it's predictive,
but that's the trend so far. The Mariners dodge the
Yankees look like they're in good shape. Convince me Joe
that I'm wrong and somebody else is able to crack

(01:10):
the door open and knock it down.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, I mean, I can't disagree with that particularly the
I mean for me, it was always about the pitching.
With the Cubbies, we had a hard time in certain years.
In fifteen the Mess beat us up, and then in
seventeen we couldn't get past the Dodgers, and I thought
love of it had to do with pitching as much
as anything. We did have power, we had some guys
hit the battle the ballpark, but primarily the other team

(01:34):
was shut down our offense. That's what I thought. He
with the Rays. When I was with the Rays, God,
we had so many wonderful years. Some ended abruptly against
the Rangers because we couldn't get any hits against the Rangers.
We beat the Indians in a one game playoff I
think those thirteen, and then of course fell short against
Boston just because the offense would falter. So that was

(01:57):
always my concern. Part of it was the Rays. We
always had good pitching, starting and relief pitching. We were
able to make no names, to make them into names,
and so on an annual basis. I felt good about
that thought. We caught the ball really well. We ran
the base as well, but the hitting would be the
part of it that came and went sometimes and so
going into this, I, if I had I really still

(02:20):
believe in the in the power pitching or these you know,
the stud pitchers. I like the starting component of it.
I think some teams have that, and then of course
the power bullpen, which the Padres really have. So there's
It's I I really pay attention to pitching and catching
the ball right now. Yes, power does win it, but

(02:41):
you got to hit it first. So the teams to
me that really, uh pitch, Well, I'm looking at again.
I just mentioned the Padres not unlike with the Royals
that a couple of years ago with their bullpen, they're
able to just keep flushing guys out of there and
became very successful with it. So I like, I really
like power pitching, and I like catching the ball, and
I do like running the bases. I like putting pressure

(03:03):
on the other side.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I love your point about the pitching because we know,
you know how starting pitching has almost been deemphasized in
the course of the regular season, and you can ask
the New York Mets how that turned out in twenty
twenty five. But it takes me back to a great
story the two thousand and one World Series. Yankees are
going up against Kurt Shilling. They've had their hands full
with Shilling A Johnson the whole series. And Joe Torrey

(03:25):
went back around the seventh inning of that game into
the clubhouse to take a little bathroom break, and George
Steinbrander was in there. And the Yankees were so used
to just knocking pitchers out of the game and they
would just destroy the middle of our back end of
a bullpen, and they just couldn't do it with those
two guys. And you know, Steinbrander was nervous as he

(03:46):
got during the games, and he asked Joe about it.
You know what's going on. Why can't we get these
guys out of the game. And we're gonna win this thing.
Tell me we're gonna win this game. And Joe was like,
I'd love to tell you we're gonna win, but he said,
it's tough to get these guys out of the game.
It was just a different kind of vibe when you
got those stud pictures on the mounts. I'm with you, Joe.
At some point in the postseason, your team is going

(04:08):
to need a starting pitcher to go three times through
a lineup, like fully, three times through a lineup, and
sometimes I call it winning a game by yourself, and
obviously people don't do that by themselves, but I'm talking
about a starter, you know, Verlander a few years ago
against the Yankees for Houston. Just go out there and
win the game by yourself. As much as we talk
about deep bullpens, so as we set up the first

(04:31):
round series, Joe, the wildcard series coming up, let's keep
that in mind. It's a great point you made about pitching.
I still think at the end of the day that
LA Dodgers are loaded with the most let's say talented
or stuff wise in terms of starting rotation the padres
you mentioned on the back end. That being said, let's
start out with a fascinating matchup Tigers Guardians. They're playing

(04:56):
Get This Joe for the third consecutive a week on
a Tuesday, and the pitching mats ups are primarily the same.
They're seeing Entre Schooble. The Guardians are for a third
time now. I can't say they've beat him up, but
they have beat him and even going back to last
year when Lane Thomas hit a grand Slam in a winner,
go home game, the Guardians are not a great offensive team,
but they find a way and against Schoolball last time

(05:17):
they saw him, it meant putting the ball on the ground,
you know, bunting, running the bases, creating some chaos. Tell
me what you think, because I think Schoolball is one
of these guys, Joe. I think he can beat you
in so many different ways. His stuff is that good.
He can beat his change up, he could spin the ball,
he can beat your four seam power up. He can
dot the baseball a low dart down fastball in the
strike zone. So I don't see that seeing him a

(05:40):
third time is really an advantage because when he's on,
he's not gonna get beat. But give me a sense
of that matchup. If it was your team seeing a
stud pitcher like this a third time.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Staff Skinny, of the hitters in Cleveland, how do they
a third time through, it's going to be a lot. Yeah, right,
you go hit against this guy, it's gonna look equally
as difficult. It's just a matter if he's executing his
pitches of his commands where normally is that would be it.
I Otherwise, I mean they would need him to be
off basically where the command was not there, and then

(06:12):
the changeup wasn't his devastating for whatever reason. You're right.
I mean, when we played guys like that from an
offensive perspective, I would really want to emphasize that we got,
we got to take advantage of our outs, We got
to move runners, we got we got to run around
third base less than two out. Somehow we got to
get this guy home, run around second base nobody has.
Somehow we got to get on the third base. Really,

(06:33):
this is worse situation, and I know becomes more prominent
in this time of the year, but you gotta you
may have to make good outs sometimes and against a
guy like this, you have to take advantage of every opportunity.
And then the other part I always wanted to do
was take chances. Don't sit back and be afraid of
making a mistake, whether it be if you see something

(06:54):
on the basis to take advantage of, like we're talking about,
maybe you might even see a squeeze. You might see
the safety squeeze. Left Tenant Pitcher a really good guy.
But first of all, you have to get runners on
first and third. And after having said that, a guy
with that good is stuff not easy to put a
bunt down to the first base side. However, you've got
to be creative. Everything's on the table. It's not a

(07:15):
conventional game when you're facing a guy like this. So
if he's on there's not a whole lot you can
do about it. But command's there, he's dotting up with
that change up breaking ball. Not a whole lot you
can do about it. But if there's any kind of
crack and numer maybe you have to create it by
creating doubt in his head by being a little bit
maybe even more assertive. And I think what I'm talking
about is on the basis and then here we got

(07:36):
to get on base in the first place. So there's
a lot going on with that. But there's no distinct
disadvantage to school with pitching for the third time, and
there's no great advantage for the Guardian hitters to seem
for the third time in the last couple of tuesdays.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, I love your strategy there about playing a little
unconventional but definitely aggressive, and I think Steven Vote has
definitely shown a knack for that. Here's one thing that
concerns me, Joe, and a lot of times we talk
about matchups in football, and isn't that big in baseball,
But the Guardians have pitched the Tigers so well, and
the Tigers hit one ninety nine against spin this year.

(08:12):
Only the Angels were worse. And when the Guardians play
the Tigers, they exploited that. They up their percentage of spin,
and the Tigers hit one forty three against spin from
the Guardians this year. There's a lot of strikeouts in
that Detroit lineup. Gavin Williams is his curveball is literally
the best curveball in baseball in terms of hardest to hit.

(08:34):
Bibe is going to cut and run the ball. Tell
me what you think about matchups there. If you've got
a team and Carl Willis is one of the best
pitching coaches in the business, that you've seen a lot
and you exploited spin, I don't see a reason the DV.
I think teams sometimes get into a trap. Joe, maybe
trying to deal a little things differently in the postseason,

(08:54):
especially if it's a divisional opponent. How about the spin
of the Guardians against the Tigers lineup?

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, stay with the same game plan. I agree with
that you start to dv ate away from your strength
in order because you think you have to zig when
they're zagging. It only it could only hurt you. I
would stay with what we had been doing. Absolutely, Yeah,
they'll Detroit will tell you if if in fact they
are onto something, or if they've made any kind of
an adjustment. If this team has been horrible against the

(09:22):
breaking ball all year, there's no reason to believe they're
going to get good at it all of a sudden.
I'm sorry, that's just And I don't care whether it's
Cleveland pitching because they've seen them more recently, or it's
any other team that they may play down the road
in the playoffs. They're going to see that. And that's
what hurt the Cubbies back when we were trying. We
did win a series, but overall we had struggled postseason

(09:43):
because of the introduction of the breaking ball. And that's
I don't know you actually pointed it out to me.
I think it was in fifteen sixteen. We went in sixteen,
but seventeen we saw more breaking ball in the postseason.
It might have been THEO I don't know, but that
was a big part of our demise at that point.
So there's no reason for the guardience to get off
of their game plan because it's worked, you know, maybe

(10:04):
a hitter or two in there among Detroit's guys that
they see as possibly being better than the average guy
within that lineup on a versus breakball. Maybe change your
patterns with him a little bit. But overall, man, that's
what you said it there. I don't believe in these
great adjustments going into this time of the year. I
think that's where that's the trap. What do you think

(10:26):
you have to do something differently? The team that plays
better baseball today among these teams that are playing, is
gonna win. The players that are more like themselves, that
are able to breathe in the moment, that actually are
feeling good, maybe their little injuries aren't bothering them anymore.
There's all these little nuance. It's gonna come down to that.
So the better players that are going to win. The

(10:46):
guy that plays a better game of baseball is gonna win.
But I would not deviate from my plan. I would
make them continue to adjust to us.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
We are going to get to all twelve postseason teams.
I promise you that we'll also get to some managerial news,
including another limb from Joe Madden's managerial tree that's been
cut down. But let's continue now in the American League
in the first round. These wild card series. Great matchup
of course, Yankees and Red Sox, a classic one. Yankees
are the home team in this case. I don't think

(11:17):
that bothers the Red Sox too much. They have played
the Yankees really well.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Joe.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
To simplify things, I almost think Game one is the
series Max Freed against Garrett Crochet. Now, Crochet has pitched
great against the Yankees. He has seen them four times
this year. They have not solved him. In fact, the
lowest whip ever by a Red Sox lefty against the
Yankees at least four starts in this season. Second all

(11:41):
time is Garrett Crochet this year. Number one Babe Ruth
in nineteen seventeen. So they haven't solved him. Get this,
Aaron Judds has struck out ten times against Garrett Crochet
this year now. He has not struck out more than
four times against any pitcher in any season in his career.

(12:01):
Garrett Crochet has struck about ten times, six times on
four steamers up and away. So they've seen a lot
of Crochet. They haven't solved him. It's gonna force some
decisions by Aaron Boone about his lineup. When you've got
guys like McMahon, Grisham, Chisholm who hit from the left side,
they can't all play against Crochet. You're not gonna do that.

(12:22):
You're gonna have to pick what spots are gonna get
a right handed hitter in there. So I don't want
to oversimplify it, Joe, because you know it can be
a great three game series, but I do think a
lot hinges and the most normally it does in the
best out of three, but in this case, each team
throwing their ace Game one at Yankee Stadium. I can't
wait for that one.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, you're right. I mean the first game is large
and it didn't bother the Europeans playing in New York either,
so I don't think he's gonna bother the Red Sox,
so that's not an issue at all. Crochet. This is
the first year I've really gotten to see him pitch.
I guess a lot of people just being with the
White Sox and being unlimited schedules. Man, it is nasty.
The way he winds up, that's differnt leg and he's

(13:03):
just he is He's almost like some kind of a
pitching machine. The way the ball comes out of his hand.
It is so explosive. He's got the neanderthal look about
him on top of that, so he's got everything going
in his favor. The fact that Judge is going to
see him again, and he's had this bad history to
think that he's just all of a sudden going it
turned it around, just like we were talking about in
the Indian Guardian. Excuse me, Tiger's series. Things aren't going

(13:26):
to change, Aaron. Judge is going to compete, absolutely, but
he's not really relishing the fact that he knows this
guy's what this pitches looks like, and the shape of
the pitch, the fastball gets on him. All this stuff
bothers him. That's just the way these things work. So
it's not just going to turn around overnight. Yeah, I agree.
The first game of this series is really important. Obviously,

(13:47):
it's like in the best of three, it's always is
all the first games. However, man Freeze not bad either,
you know, and he's gotten he's really brought himself back
from earlier when he went to that little bit of
a funk. Great series. Listen, Crochet is all of that.
I saw it for myself this first game. I think
is critical, but I don't think the Red Sox are

(14:07):
going to be timidated at all or possibly even feed
off the fact that they're playing in New York. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
By the way, Aaron Judges' slugging percentage on four seeing
fastballs this year was well over eight hundred. That's the
second highest in the last eighteen years. And yet he
can't hit Crochet's fort seemer. It's just got that lefty,
it's got ride and run to it, up and away.
It's just a nasty pitch. So I think that's a
low scoring game. I don't know how it's going to

(14:33):
turn out, Joe, but if it gets to a Game three,
the Yankees give the ball to a first year pitcher
in Cam Schlitler. Very interesting. Of course, the Red Sox
are down Lucas Gielito, who I thought was going to
be their Game two guy, but he has an elbow issue.
He will not be in the rotation on the roster
for this Wildcard series. What do you see as a
difference in this series?

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, yeah, Schlitler in the last game, that's like John
Lackey for the Angels. I mean, I've watched this kid pitch.
I like him. I do I think he's got the
makeup to do something like this. He's definitely got the
stuff to do something like this. How about the kid
Bellow is it below with the Red Sox?

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Is he gonna bo yeah, Brian BeO, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I've seen him against the Yankees pitch really well. I
read this guy. This guy's got good stuff. I like
him a lot. You know, you get done to that
game three, anything can happen. But I do like the
Yankees rookie starter there. I do. I think he's got
really good stuff and I think he's got to kind
of make up to carry him through a moment like that.
I've been in that situation where you get these young
guys pitching and it's gonna happen. The the kid with Toronto,

(15:34):
We're not even talking about them.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
But Y Savage, Yeah, I trust another one. Give me stuff.
I know I want experience and stuff, but if I
have to choose, give me stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
There's some young guys, and it always seems to does
pop up this time of the year. You're gonna see
some fellows. You ever really heard about a lot guys
that are relatively young or are young haven't pitched a
whole lot but scouts, no front offices, no managers, no coaches, No,
that's this guy. This stuff is great. But they also know,
and more importantly, that his makeup plays. They that he's

(16:04):
going to breathe in a moment, and that's what they're
getting with these young pitchers. I'm seeing that from what
I'm seeing on television. I always like being boots on
the ground like you are when you get there and
you're standing on the sideline and you're watching this thing
and you can see it firsthand. I've always believed in
that scouting method, so I can't really apply that. I
can only apply what I've seen on television. But these
young guys good stuff, and it appears to be the

(16:26):
good makeup too, and that's why these organizations are trusting
these guys in this moment. So obviously interesting, not a
great answer by me, But I like the Yankees third
game starter. I think he has a chance if it
gets to that point, to pitch a good game.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Hey, we're gonna take a quick break. When we get back,
we're going to start talking about the National League First
Round Series and talking about great young pitchers. The Cubs
have one, but unfortunately he will not be pitching in
the Wildcard Series. We'll talk about that right after this
on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book

(17:09):
of Joe. Joe. I thought one of the key injuries
and we should have mentioned Roman Anthony not playing for
the Red Sox. I would like the Red Sox a
lot more if that kid was in the lineup. Wow,
was he impressive. But for the Chicago Cubs, Kate Horton
would have been their Game one starter. I mean, he
had a Jake Arietta type second half of the season
for them, and just the last start of the season
through twenty nine pitches had to come out concerns about

(17:31):
the back and sure enough, you know he's not going
to be available. So the Cubs go up, you know,
in their series against the Padres with a rotation starting
with Matthew Boyd, who's been good, Shota Imanaga, who has
not been good down the stretches. Last I think at
six starts, he's allowed three earned runs or more, and
he's just a home run waiting to happen his fourth seamer.

(17:53):
If he doesn't get it extreme top rail, it can
be a batting practice pitch. So and maybe Colin Ray
in a game of three. I love the Cubs, love
the way they played the first half the season especially,
but the Horton injury may be a swing for me.
And you mentioned that Padre's bullpen, Joe, it's tough for me.
I know these games are going to be close. Those

(18:14):
two managers, Mike Schultz Craig Counsel, this is chess match
because it's a bullpen series. To me, both like to
go to the bullpen, have good bullpens, and don't hesitate.
If it is a bullpen series, I have to go
with San Diego.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, I agree with that. I was looking at that
earlier and I think I agree. But also I do
like the grit of the Cubs on the field. I
do the middle infield. I mean, I know Nico. I
don't know Swanson that well, but I really like Nico
Horner and he's had a really good conclusion to the season.
Ian Happ, you know, has really made himself into a
good major League baseball player. Armstrong. Now Tucker's hurt. Is

(18:49):
Tucker going to be able to play in the outfielder?
Is he out?

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Great question? I mean he came back in DH. I
thought if bats looked good, he was tracking the ball. Well,
didn't see explosiveness, but that's to be expected right off
the eyel But I don't know if he's going to
play the outfield. My guess is that Suzuki will be
in right field. And it's a big question, Joe, it
really is. Having Tucker back is great. But I always

(19:13):
tell people just because the guy's back in the lineup
doesn't mean he's the same hitter.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, the calf is a tough one. It's a CAF injury.
I from an understand right, and now those are nasty
man Shoot Trouty, Mike Trout missed gosh months with it
when I was still there with that particular injury. So
those are the kind of things that make a difficult
forton not being there. Tucker with a question mark. The
other guys are good baseball players. Bush at first base man.

(19:37):
Nobody talks about this guy. He's good, he can hit.
He's got a beautiful swing too. I like him a
lot shot. Third base really came on for them during
the course of the year. They're gonna have to really
catch the baseball like they can. They're gonna have to
do those little things well. And Armstrong if he could
elevate himself like you had earlier in the season, would
be a very big positive for them. On the other hand,

(19:59):
you know the other team, they got some pretty nice
names there, but I overall overarching the bullpen like we're
talking about. So the key then, of course, is for
the Padres to grab the lead. So from the coupy's perspective,
you really want to score first, stay on top, get
ahead of these games, and then work it from that angle,
because if you permit the Padres to get into that

(20:20):
sixth inning with the lead, be very, very difficult to
recapture it.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
That's a great point, Joe, the way the Padres can
shorten a game. You saw this in twenty sixteen with
Cleveland with their bullpen, and you know, I actually think
that Mike Schiltz should deploy Mason Miller the same way
Terry Francona did with Andrew Miller throughout the twenty sixteen postseason.
In that postseason, Tito used Miller ten times. Nine times

(20:47):
was between the fifth and seventh innings. So, in other words,
when he had a lead, even if a one run lead,
say it's a four to three games, six or seventh inning,
bring your big guy in. Shut the game down, give
your team in a bat or two to kind of
tack on runs. Just hold the game there, take any
breath of home away from the other team. Don't wait
for the eighth inning to use your quote unquote eighth

(21:08):
inning guy. And Mason Miller has pitched mostly the eighth
inning for the Padres this year. I would be super aggressive.
I would deploy Mason Miller as my super reliever just
to take the heart out of a team in the
middle of the game. They've got enough behind them to cover,
there's no question about it. But I would not wait
to use Mason Miller.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I'm certain that is a conversation that's taken place prior
to this first game, reminding Miller that, listen, you've primarily
been in the eighth inning, but you really need to
be ready a little bit earlier this for these next
three games, three game series. Man all hands on deck
all the time. I mean, there is no waiting around.
There's no like you suggest that you don't wait for

(21:47):
the eighth or ninth inning. That was something out of
the past, the way they used to build into that inning,
into those innings. You don't want to permit the other
team to recapture it even tie you. You always once
you grab the leads, you want to keep the lead.
You don't even want them to tie the game. So
I'm certain that Shilty's had that conversation already with the

(22:07):
guys there, and that's how you do it. It is
a conversation. If guys have been in some normal patterns
to this point, you have to talk to them in
advance of this moment so that they're aware that this
may occur or it's probably going to happen. And when
you do that, it makes a lot easier flow when
you get to that point. And it really does help
when we talk about roles and how guys get ready
and etc. That some people may poo poo that, but

(22:29):
it's true. These guys are so structured in how they
prep for their part of the game. It's really important
to communicate that in advance.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
That's a great point. These games are played differently, managed differently.
Don't forget too. You're narrowing down the rotation. You're not
going to see the back, fourth and fifth guys, especially
in a wild card series and the bullpen. You're going
to go to your high leverage guys sooner and narrow
down that group of choices. So when I looked at
last year, Joe in the postseason from the seventh inning

(22:57):
through the ninth inning, the batting average in the postseason
last year was too nineteen. That's it nineteen. So the
idea that you're going to put you know, multi hit
rallies together late, can it happen? Sure it can happen,
but the odds are a lot less that it's gonna
happen in the postseason. That's why I think home runs
and bullpens rule the day in the postseason. And that

(23:19):
brings me to the La Dodgers. We know that the
bullpen has been their achilles heel throughout the season. They're
gonna match up against the Cincinnati Reds now the Reds
will throw a Hunter Green in Game one, and he
can flip that entire series. He's one of those pitchers
we talked about. Joe can go out there and win
a game by himself. You know, he's got the stuff
to do it. He's got the length in terms of

(23:40):
keeping his stuff through a game. That's a little scary matchup.
The Dodgers, for me, forget about what their bullpen numbers
were this year. Because in a postseason environment, Tyler Glasnow
will be in the bullpen. Now, he's not gonna come
in with the base of load and gettingbody out, but
he can start ating and pick up two three innings
for you if he has to in the middle of
the game with his stuff. Wow, you've got Roki Sasaki,

(24:01):
who they now have deployed as a bullpen and I
think he can be used as a high leverage guy
throwing one hundred miles an hour with a nasty split.
You've got Emmett Sheen, the starter who's got swinging miss
stuff in the bullpen. Vessi is probably Alex Vessi is
their closer here, but I think it's kind of a
different look the way the Dodgers will run it. That
being said, no one can match the swing and miss

(24:24):
stuff in their rotation. I think they go Blake Snell one,
Yeshobu Yamamoto two, and then you have Showhy at three, winner,
go home game. Why is he in three? Well, he's
always played better when he gets a day off after pitching,
and I think that's what the Dodgers are thinking here,
rather than pitch him in one and then he's your

(24:44):
DH in game two after pitching in that game, showing
the effects of let's face it, you know, it's it's
the grind pitching a major league game, especially in the postseason.
This way you can pitch him in three and then
if you advance, you have him with that day off
to get him ready for the DS. Give me your
take on the Dodgers and how they set up for Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
I like what they did. I mean, for them, if
they win the first two games and show you can't
pitch the first game of the next series two correct,
I mean, that's all that's right, that's all part of it.
I think that's really properly laid out. Only concern, like
I mean, these starter is going into the bullpen. Yeah,
this stuff is great. I've always was a little bit concerned,
just from the perspective of being used to it or not.

(25:23):
Some guys have a harder time with it than others.
I always liked, if you're going to do that, if
you could at least get them an opportunity or two
towards the end of the season to see what it
feels like. Again, talking about prep work, how do we
get ready? The difference you did suggest bring them into
a clean inning, which is probably wise or is wise,
because they're not used to coming into dirty innings with
people all over the place, and that's definitely going to

(25:46):
present a different mindset for them. And also how they
get ready, how they get loose and when get up, Okay,
get ready, get ready for this hit or all that
kind of stuff. They're not used to that. And I
know that sounds simplistic or why can't they, but it's
just not the way they've been programmed. So all these things,
stuff is going to be the overarching component that always

(26:07):
is going to matter. First, when you're a relief pitcher,
you come into a game, you don't have a chance
to get into the flow of the game. The flow
of the game's been established. You got to get everybody out.
There's a higher level of perfection necessary from the relievers
than there is from the starters in order to win.
That was the thing I always was critical about in
post games when relief pictures would get kind of skewered sometimes,

(26:30):
and you have to understand, these guys have to be
there the level. The bar's been set to the point
it's impossible. So there's few that have done like Mariano
rivera almost perfect I had Percy Troy Percival back in
the day, almost perfect. There are some of those guys
out there, but for the most part there they don't exist.
So that's the part that's difficult. This really bar of

(26:54):
perfection that's been established for relief pictures hard to attain. So, yes,
they're on paper, these guys look great, great arms, they
could throw hard, they throw high velocity, whatever. But to
be able to go out there and get into the
flow quickly, I might be overstating this, but that was
always my concern, and that's what they're going to have
to be able to do. And I'm sure the Dodgers

(27:15):
feel comfortable with all this based on the makeup of
these guys, but that was always my concern.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, let's move now to the teams that got buys,
and there's always talked to Joe this time of year,
the whole rust versus rest debate. Now, obviously you want
the rest rather than put your season on the line
in the three game series. Who wouldn't want to buy
into the next round rather than risk getting knocked out
in a dangerous three game series, best out of three.

(27:43):
So that's proper thing to do. The question is how
do you handle that now. I'm not a big believer,
and you can convince me wrong, Joe, if I'm wrong
here on the rust factor. Are you telling me you're
going to lose a series because you had four or
five days off. I'm not buying that, especially today with
everybody has these trajet machines to simulate game at bats.
You know, the Mariners, for instance, are going to have
scrimmages in which they're going to have people in the stands.

(28:05):
They're gonna have music, they're gonna have announcer, they're going
to have you know, they're gonna make it as much
as a game situation as possible. Is it playoff baseball?
Of course not, but just to provide a little bit
of an edge. When you have players out there and
fans are watching, you'll create something of an edge so
they'll be ready to play. I'm not buying that you're
gonna lose a five game series because you had five

(28:28):
days off. I'm sorry, that's an excuse. You can look
at any number that you want, whether it hurts or
helps a team. I'd much rather have the days off
rather than risk playing the first round. Give me your take.
First of all, the whole rust versus rest thing.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, I'll take the rest. I'll take the rest any
day of the week. I totally have been involved in that.
And yes, you get your players that are hurting a
little bit, the bumps and bruises go away. Your bullpen
and your arms get a little bit of a break,
which is very helpful. And then when you get to
the point where they're actually engaged in, when your series arrives,
and there are days off that are set up to

(29:03):
the point where your bullpen at that point should be
able to survive the rest of this run just based
on they've gotten this little bit of a rest now,
and then there are built in rest days which are
very advantageous, so always take the rest. The other side
of it is just the opposite. I mean, you have
to burn. You have to burn guys pretty hotly to

(29:24):
get through this three game series. Possibly that perfect world
if you had like a couple of starters that just
boat raced it in went seven, eight innings and sometimes
nine in is best out of three, which doesn't happen anymore.
But if that were to happen, that would be wonderful
and that could possibly help you. I guess what I'm
saying is that I was always mostly concerned with my
bullpen in these situations and rest. My take has always

(29:48):
been that really good relief pitchers, even airhead guys, they
don't lose anything. They don't lose their command, they don't
lose sharpness because they've had rest. Like when a closer
doesn't appear for several days because the opportunity hasn't arisen,
go to your clothes and say do you need an
inning today? And almost always they would say no. They
don't want to pitch under those circumstances. And the next

(30:11):
time you got him out there, they're almost always were fine.
Command was good, stuff was great. So I always prefer rest.
I prefer rested body and mind. I think the other
way can be taxing. I'll take the rest always over
the rest factor.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
So those bullpen guys, they respond to the flow of
the game. They don't want to pitch in those situations
without the energy.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
It tends to no, not normally they don't. They don't,
they don't. It does nothing for them. Quite frankly.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, Well, let's talk about how it affects those four
teams with buy First of all, Seattle Mariners, I think
it helps from a lotcho because Brian Wu has been
their best pitcher. He's been the rock of their rotation.
He goes out there and throws six innings just about
every time want or no runs. He's got a peck issue.
Hasn't pitched like a week and a half, so I
think the rest for him has really helped. He played

(31:00):
catch the other day. He's good to go. I'm not
sure where they're going to slot him in a five
game series, but he will pitch one of the first
three games. I think that's good news for them. The
fact is Seattle is alive right now. The town of Seattle.
They're into this Mariners team. They've played tremendous, not just
down the stretch, but especially at home. The magic of
Cal Rowley and his sixty home runs. They've got a

(31:23):
vibe going there that is not going away with some
days off. I think it's a positive for Seattle.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
One hundred percent. A guy like Will gets a couple
extra days to make sure this thing settles down. I
really like him. I mean, who doesn't. I watched this
kid pitch. He pitches a lot of confidence. I love
the fact that he wants to go that six six
plus I love that about him. So yeah, that's great,
and you're one hundred percent right. There's going to be
no letdown in vibe or adrenaline or whatever. They'll stay sharp,

(31:51):
they'll get their work in. You know, whether there's fake
people in the stands or music whatever being announced, that'll
just be entertaining more than anything. I know when you're
I had breakfast on the field for the workout. Wasn't
like we had a big rest. Was they just a workout?
They had breakfast served on the field during batting practice.
We had to. We had all those little trays and
bunsen burners whatever in the back there heating up eggs, bacon, whatever.

(32:13):
So in between your time and the cage, you walk
in the back and have a bite to eat, just
to try to loosen it up, keep it, keep it fun.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Breakfast and baseball love it.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, right, It's it's like Wimbledon. There's no difference. Yeah.
I think it's good. I think they're going to be
that place there. Does rock. I mean it was there
when they one hundred and what our fifteen games was
there then, and even even with the Angels more recently,
their team did okay, they got a loyal following. The
Mariners got like the northern version of the Padres. To me,

(32:42):
they got this little cult group that follows them religiously.
They're there, they show up, and so I don't think
there's going to be any any form of rust to
be shaken off them for taking a couple of days off.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, that's a good call. And Toronto as well. The
rest helps. First of all, they use Kevin Gosman their
best picture in Game one, sixty two to win the division,
which was a no brainer. By the way, you weren't
going to hold back. I mean, what kind of message
are you sending your team at that point. So he's
then now good to go for a division series. Another team,
Joe plays really well at home, and I talk all

(33:15):
the time about home field advantage in the postseason is
not really a thing teams at home or sixty and
sixty four the last three years, but there are certain
cases where it matters. I think Toronto is one. It's
a little harder turf for a team that really puts
the ball play. They strike out the least of Major
League Baseball that suits their game really well. They're a
good defensive team and athletic team. That can cover that
turf and field. This is nothing but good things for Toronto.

(33:37):
I think they're going to be a hard out because
they do have a lot of momentum in that ballpark.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I watched them a lot recently and I do like
I like their group. I like to where they play.
They're they're a lot more gritty. I'm using that word often,
but they're a lot more you know, baseball kind of
throwback looking group than they had been in the past.
They didn't play real fundamental game for years in spite
of having some good players. They were just they would
just do dumb things on the basis. Defense wasn't tight.

(34:04):
There wasn't an aggressive nature about them that there is
right now. So on the field, I do like them.
I like him. I think Guerrero glad taken to this role.
He's kind of he appears to be a leader within
that group. The kid Clement, I love watching him. I
would want him on my team any day of the week.
Kirk beyond the plate, this guy's just quietly steady. Like

(34:25):
him a lot too. I mean, Springer with a nice
bounce back. Barker Barger, Barger, yeah, Barger, yeah, nice. And
I love Varshow, I really do Varshow. He's got, like
the gosh, he's got this look about him that he
will do anything to beat you tonight, and I love
that about him. My biggest concern about them because their closer.

(34:48):
Watching Hoffman pitch good stuff, but man, he could be
very inconsistent, strike throwing a lot of bad counts. I
think if you could really be patient there against him
and really wait for him to get over the plate,
that'd be great. I know he's got some good stuff,
great stuff, but that would be my one little rub
against them watching it is him as the closer that's

(35:09):
not easy to watch from the dugout.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
I would agree. I think the Toronto bullpen is a
question mark. Hoffman great stuff but prone to the home
run ball, which you never want to see with a closer,
So we'll keep an eye on that. In the National League, Joe,
I would love to believe that the Milwaukee Brewers can
win the World Series because I love watching them play baseball. Again.
The pattern, though, is you're going to have to bang

(35:33):
the baseball at some point to win games and win series.
The Brewers just don't do that. They rely on running
the bases, defense, putting the ball in play, all great things.
That the reason why they won more regular season games
than anybody in baseball. But when you go into the
postseason and your three four hitters of Bryce Terrang and
Jake Bauers, I'm not sure you can hang with the
big guys. In terms of the teams that can bang

(35:54):
the baseball. I want to believe it. We just haven't
seen a team in the bottom half of home runs,
bottom half of home runs win the World Series in
a decade. You got to go back to the twenty
fifteen Kansas City Royals. So they're zigging, Well, the rest
of the baseball is zagging. They have to in that market.
Give me your take on the Brewers. We know they're

(36:15):
a great regular season team. Can they be a great
postseason team?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Well, they can't listen to what we're just talking about
right now. They can't try to change all of a
sudden because historically the homer wins the postseason. I would
double down on being myself. You know, whatever they've been doing,
make sure that we continue to try at least try
to do the same thing. Play that same assertive game,
catch the baseball, run the bases, move the baseball, I

(36:41):
don't even know how often. Maybe Mrsten a hit and run.
Maybe this year double steals, whatever it is. Safety squeezes
catch the ball, picks like they can, but do not
back off the offense, offensive strategy and being afraid of
making outs or making mistakes offensively. Whatever you've been doing,
don't change it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

(37:02):
But if you were to change it, not gonna work,
I believe, so I would really double down on what
we've been doing. Stay away from the dialogue. Play our
version of the way this game is supposed to be played.
Pressure the other team. It's just like Murph having been
a college coach, and I don't even know if you
manage an a ball or not. You have to treat

(37:22):
it like it's a ball. You got to make the
other team make mistakes. If you want to play the
same version of baseball that the Dodgers play or the
Cubs are trying to play in regards to power whatever,
you're not gonna win that game. So don't even think,
don't even try to imagine that. Play your version of baseball,
play to the to the hilt, man double down, make

(37:42):
it even more asserted than ever. Get these guys frothing
before the game begins, and or go out there and
just play boys. I don't care what happens. We're playing
with house money right now. There's no expectations on this.
Let's just go play our game. That would be my method.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
And finally, Philadelphia Phillies, I actually think Joe that they
have the best preferred path to the World Series. Say
that because you know the Dodgers have to put things
on the line in the first round. Anything can happen.
Phillies have the home field advantage other than Milwaukee in
the National League, so first round the Division Series, at
least for Philly they'll have home field advantage. They're a great,
great home team. The left handed power plays in that ballpark.

(38:20):
We know about the energy and the vibe in that ballpark.
Rest shouldn't hurt them at all. In fact, Trey Turner
should be even healthier. He did come back for the
last day of the regular season. I'm not sure how
much he's going to run coming off the hamstring, but
having him back at the top of the lineup really helps.
You've got Schwarber and Harper, and I love that Robbie
Thompson has them back to back because with Schwarburn now
it doesn't matter. Go ahead, bring your lefty in against

(38:42):
those two. They don't care. Get them up as much
as possible. They're a handful Philadelphia Phillies. I love the
way they finished the regular season. Of course know Zach Wheeler,
but there's still plenty there for the Phillies. Give me
your take on Philly coming off. Essentially we'll call it
a bye week as they start division play on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
This version of the Phillies is an accumulation of historical
Philly teams. They're they they're just a bunch of tough guys.
They fit in really well with the culture of that city. Uh.
They embrace it. They don't repel it. They're not going
to be cowered, upset whatever. They're not gonna go into
a shell if they happen to be booed once in

(39:20):
a while. The makeup of that team and Nebrawski, David
I don't know, you know how much of that was
a part of his assembling of this group. But they
they really just strip with self confidence and they're not concerned.
They don't worry about making mistakes, they don't worry about
the bad moment. They just we wanted the next one.
So I love that about them. I think, you know,

(39:41):
the BoA's group, and and even like the Darren Daltons
of the world, that that particular group, David Hollins, I mean,
all these guys there, they they're cut from that cloth,
and I really like them for that. A lot hamstring
is really tough one. I mean, he does need to
be playing with a little bit of a governor on him.
You don't want to mess with that. I'm I'm a
professional hamstring puller from way back, and they and they hurt,

(40:03):
and you do definitely guard against it. So I would
bet that he is gonna be a little bit concerned
with that or not full full bore back to back
with your lefties. I'm okay with that. If a left
he hits a lefty, bring them on, man. You know
that was something I I There was a time I
played Aki Wim wore up Carl Crawford and Carlospana back
to back to back, and you know, of course Andrew

(40:24):
went nuts with that, but I thought it was our
best method. And when you show that kind of confidence
in your guys, they're gonna they're gonna repay you for that.
You watch and see. So there's so much to like
about this Phillies group. And the last point, there are
three left tendant starters. I love I do. I think
they're They're fantastic. So if they're running to some of
these teams with left handed hitting strength, they should be

(40:46):
able to mitigate that somewhat.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
I'm with you, Joe, don't overthink it. You know people
are saying, do you have to get ready in there now?
I have. There're your three best pitchers. Start them. It's
like Aaron Boone with with Freed and Rodain starting one two.
Go with your best. You don't care about them. Those
are the twelve postseason teams. It'll be a fascinating tournament.
It always is. I love the first round because there

(41:08):
is so much urgency to these games. We'll see what happens.
In the meantime. We're gonna take a quick break and
we get back. We're gonna talk about three managerial changes
made already and there may be more coming. Dive into
that right after this on the Book of Joe, Welcome

(41:36):
back to the Book of Joe. Caught me a little
bit off guard, Joe that the fact that Bruce Bochie
is not coming back to the Texas Rangers. It was
announced as a quote unquote mutual decision. I'm talking to
somebody who's been there before when it comes to that,
and I mean, obviously a Hall of Famer first ballot
easy for Bruce Bochie. He's managed more Major League games

(41:59):
than anybody but Tony LaRussa, Connie Mack and John Agra.
I mean, that's just amazing. You know, they hired Skip
Schumacher last year to be on staff there as sort
of the manager in waiting. Did it surprise you that
Boach is moving on?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Honestly, it did not. I mean they got what they
wanted when they won the World Series. There are a
couple of years ago and having done the job before,
and what's going on right now and how baseball is
transitioning into a more of a front office kind of
a situation as opposed to a Doug Out or field situation.
I would bet he was good. He was good. I mean,
there's nothing left to add to the resume. There just isn't.

(42:38):
He's done it all. He's wonderful, he's a great guy.
I'm sure the idea of hanging out there's summer back
in San Diego, whatever me with his family and friends
has to be a strong allure, and I don't think
there's any amount of money that would make him want
to not do that. So I think the fact that
they've won the World Series while he was there made

(42:59):
it a lot easier for him to make this decision
right now.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, and there's already speculator and actually had been before
that maybe he's the guy for Buster Posey to manage
the Giants. And Buster made that move where he did
not bring back Bob Melvin, even though he did extend
him in the course of the season last year. He thought,
and I agree with this. I thought it was a
good move to show stability to your group. You don't
want guys sitting there in the second half of the

(43:23):
season saying, well, is this guy going to be there
next year? I hate that situation. So that was the
right move. But then they you know, last week, last
month of the season didn't play necessarily well. They did
have one hot stretch where they went thirteen and three,
but fell out of it. I understand it. Buster Posey's
going to want his own guy, right. I mean, you
take control of a baseball team as a president of
baseball operations, and you want your own manager in there.

(43:45):
I get that. I'm not sure it was going to
be or will be, Bruce Bochi. I think he's going
to look elsewhere. Interesting name to watch here, the Tennessee
baseball coach Tony Vitello. That would be fascinating. There's already
been contact there. We'll see, but Buster is going to
take his time do his homework. I love what he's
doing there, changing the culture there with the Giants. Just

(44:06):
know where he's going. What was your take on Buster
making the move with Bob Melvin not coming back.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, I wasn't completely surprised. I didn't even realize about
the extension, but that was the right thing to do.
I agree with that. The criterion is changed regarding who
to hire as your major league manager. What maybe Bobby
Winkles might have been the last collegiate was Bobby did
he come out of ASU to do that or was
he already professional at that time?

Speaker 1 (44:28):
You might be right about that. I will say, Joe,
that college baseball's really changed to me. It really is
another minor league for the major leagues. Remember they reduced
a number of minor league teams that are out there.
The technology that's being available to college at the way
they play college baseball now, bigger stadiums, sec, you name it.

(44:49):
It's the reason why guys are getting the big leagues quicker.
And it's a lot because the college game is really
a pretty close proximity to minor league baseball.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah. I mean when I was a young scout in
nineteen eighty one to eighty two eighty three, I do
Arizona was my base, and I'd go to Packard Stadium,
who if almost nightly between there, and then I drive
down to Tucson, a CEO of a that was pretty
good baseball back then too. Man. I saw Joe McGrain
and Ericson be the hit guys with the Arizona staff.

(45:20):
And then you go to ASU. You had Bonds in
left field, you had Kevin Roman in center field, you
had all these other dudes, Donna Hill at shortstop, Alvin
Davis at first base. I mean, trust me, it's been
going on. That's how I Scott at Wally Joyner, I
signed Wally Joinner BYU comes down, they got a whole
bunch of guys. It was a Corey Snyder and all
these dudes. So I've seen some really good college baseball

(45:42):
for a long time, and I actually thought it went
the other way. I thought it was less impressive than
when I first started out scouting, when I was still
involved in the game. You get these guys coming out
of college, and there's some nice guys, but I just
thought the glut the numbers back then, My god, of
these guys coming out were pretty fantastic and really really
good players. And of course that was right at the
end of me playing. I'm coming out of like Boulder Collar,

(46:04):
were I'm playing with like Joe Carter and all these
dudes and Spike O and so college baseball has always
been a good feeding system for the major leagues. I
think right now, the difference is the fact that there
is fewer minor leagues and the fact that the front
offices really like the more academic approach to doing this,
and the fact that they're going to be they're going

(46:25):
to get a more academically oriented coach, manager, whatever, compared
to the crusty old guys that came up back in
the day that had to earn their way to the
big leagues and go to all these different outposts and
really understand the game in a different way. That's not
necessary anymore, so criterion has changed. I'm not saying it's
good or bad. It's just the way it is. So

(46:45):
it would not surprise me to see something like that.
But I will argue that if in fact, people are
thinking that there's better players coming out of college right now,
I could go back there and if I went through
my archives, which I got here somewhere, all the guys
that I scout at just me in my territory. College
baseball has done a great job of providing Major League

(47:07):
to time for many years.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
I will say this about Buster Posey, Joe, He's going
to find someone who is a leader. He needs someone
to establish the winning culture that that's all he knew
with the Giants, that culture that was established. He's trying
to get there. Is not going to be so much
of a game manager. First of all, I don't think
that's changed a lot across baseball. There's so much input.

(47:29):
As you know better than anybody from the front office.
You have to find a leader of players. You know,
you'd love to have your players take that leadership role
in terms of setting a culture, but you get a
manager who does it. That's what Buster Posey is going
to find. I think who that is, I'm not sure,
but that's going to be, like, I think his highest priority.

(47:49):
Who is going to set the proper culture here what
it means to be a San Francisco Giant.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Could I say someone that. I mean, okay, if that's
the fact that you're looking for, if you're looking for
a leader, then permit him to lead. I mean, that's
that's my whole point with all that.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
I think he will, Joe, I think he will. I
think in the past, you know, Farhans Aedi was more
about trying to get every incremental edge, and the roster
would change almost on a daily basis. And we've already
seen with Buster he's not so quick to change the roster,
you know, make out lineups, things like that. So I
think with the right manager, I think he will allow

(48:22):
as much as they do in today's game, right right right,
that leader to lead. It's a great point.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, I mean, I listen, I'm just speaking from experience
on this one. There was a time when I thought,
and I believe this, I've actually said it in different
fireside chats that I've had, there was a time that
to me to lead was to empower people. I need
today's world. To lead is to control people's That's my concern.
I think that the definition of leadership is from the

(48:49):
perspective of who is hiring this leader. The hiring process
wants more control over this leader as opposed to empowerment
of this leader. That's my take on things, and I'll
argue that with anybody. I think it's true. I think
the way things are not just in baseball. I think
you've seen in football, and even when I read about basketball,

(49:10):
it's not just about hiring this guy because the person
coming into. Vision of that person is not necessarily important
like it had been. The vision of that person coming
in would be to cooperate to the point where subjugate
what he believes in it in a sense, in order
because this group coming in is the front office whatever,
that's what's become more of the leader component of this

(49:31):
as opposed to any fiery speech a manager a coach
can give in a locker room anymore, it's just not
that way. I think football still has some of that
bastion involved with that. I think baseball less and less
because they're so reliant upon data and information and being
told what to do. It's hard to know what you
believe in if in fact, you're always being told what

(49:52):
to do, so just being honest, I think that's part
of it. So I would love if somebody says, I
want to hire somebody to lead, good please do that
and then permit him to lead. Permit that person to
make you a lot decisions in regards to what he's
going to say and how he's going to say it,
and be even to the point where after games sometimes
they'll come in and ask you or tell you what
to not say or say in your postgame press conferences.

(50:15):
It's all part of this. So that's that's the part
of it I don't like as much. That's the part
of it I've talked about in the past. We talked
about it in the Book of Joe. When you hire
somebody to lead, empower them, don't try to control them.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Well said. And finally, rock Obelldelli, you know him, Well
played for you on your staff. What are the greatest
athletes that ever come out of Rhode Island?

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Amen?

Speaker 1 (50:37):
I think he's got a great baseball mind. It was
a tough situation in Minnesota. A couple of things worked
against him. I think he's been there seven years and
I've seen it happen, Joe, whether it was Dusty Baker
in San Francisco, Davey Johnson in New York, just like
this this period there, like this seven year itch where
if it doesn't happen and people start to be eager
for change. And then the other thing was obviously they

(51:00):
they had a philosophical tipping point this year in the
middle of the season. The season wasn't going the way
they wanted. The minute they traded Carlos Grea, they were out.
And then they wound up backing up the truck and
trading literally like almost half the team. Just a major,
major changes there. So the manager got caught up in that.
I know you think highly of Rocco. I think he'd

(51:21):
be a great manager second time around, not that he
wasn't on the first time. Took that team to the
playoffs and won a series. But give you your take
on Rocco agreed completely.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
First of all, out of all the guys I've ever managed,
he's top five talent. I mean, just purely physical ability.
I was amazed when I got to the Rays and
was on the field with this fellow. Oh my god,
if he had to be made well, he'd definitely Hall
of Fame caliber baseball player, just in regards to athleticism,

(51:51):
the way his mind worked, how Sharpie was, just everything
about Rocco. He's extremely bright. Rocco is way up there
regarding just a natural brightness about him. He's the guy
that talked about this, that really pushed for Maddy Moore
to start that first game in the playoffs versus the

(52:11):
Rangers several years ago when nobody knew who Matt Moore
was and he was loud. I mean, I really liked
that because we had the meeting in office in Texas
and Rocco spoke up loudly, and I loved that. I
love when a young guy states what he thinks and
is not coward by who also is sitting at the table.
And he showed me that. I also agree when you
were saying all that, I thought, this is like the

(52:32):
perfect candidate for the next time around guy. So whoever's
letting some like say San Francisco is an example, great, perfect,
perfect guy for something like that. I think the sensibilities
with him and Boach really would mesh very well. And
Rocco's ability to communicate is outstanding. Rocco's really good in
front of the microphone. He's well thought out, and I

(52:55):
think in a very progressive town like San Francisco, he'd
be an absolute perfect fit. So I hope he gets
some kind of opportunity, but I cannot agree with you more.
He is going to be even better the second time around.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Can I give you another name? Yep, that fits just
as perfectly as Rogo, and especially with the Giants second
time around. David Ross.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, my boy, David. You know David and I play
some golf. Last winner down in Florida, did a lot
of really good conversations. Dave would be an outstanding name. Also,
I totally agree with that. These are two, you know,
two my guys right here. Rockwell played. They both played
for me, Both extremely bright, both really engaging, gregarious personalities,

(53:35):
sharp baseball minds, not afraid to have a tough conversation.
I could go on and on.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
I love them both, and one more I'll throw out there.
We don't know about Ron Washington's health. Hopefully he's doing well.
We want to see him back anywhere in baseball. But
if he's not returning to the Angels, the name I've heard,
and he was around the team last weekend. The season.
Tory Hunter. Oh really okay, a favorite of Arty. Moreno.

(54:00):
Would not surprise me if ARTI went down that road
with Tory Hunter.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Love Tori, great guy. Been around him briefly but always.
He's very He's infectious man, He's very, very good. The
other name I'd like to throw out there, I don't
know that he'd ever do. It'd be Darren Erstadt. He's
a guy who's trying to promote even years ago, when
Andrew's looking for a manager with the Dodgers. I threw
Ersty's name out there for that. I don't know that.
Ersty's pretty ensconced they think in Nebraska with his family.

(54:27):
The thing that you got to appreciate about Ersky's the
fact he went to back to Nebraska to manage our
coach baseball there several years ago too. One of the
most diligent students of the game I've ever been around.
Hard knows is not even nearly to tell you how
tough he is. Just love the guy, Love everything about him.
He'd be another wonderful candidate, although I don't know that

(54:49):
he'd be interested.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Well, here we are on the eve of postseason baseball. Joe,
it's the best time of year, no doubt, we're due
for surprises. We always get them in the postseason. With
that being said, get us ready for October baseball. What
do you have today to take us home on the
Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yeah, okay, two things. Basically. Number one, when you have
your talk with the group before the first playoff game,
the one thing I always wanted to emphasize to them
is that no one thing, something bad is going to happen.
Something's going to go sideways. Know that, Okay, So let's
be mainally prepared for that in advance, because when things

(55:26):
go sideways, that's when you have to really be able
to dump it and move on to the next moment.
That is really really important this time of the year.
So that was a big part of my talk to
the group before we entered into the playoff season. So
I wanted them to know that because when you get
that look and you watch these games and I watched
all these different games that are coming down to Pike lately,

(55:49):
you watch the faces of players on the negative side
of things, they go blank. Man, they go blank. The
whole group collectively loses fire. And once you do that,
you're done. You're absolutely done. So know that bad things
are going to happen where it's not always going to
go away, but we got to file it and move on.
So that's not the quote that I wanted to get,
but I wanted to make that point. The thing that

(56:10):
I wanted to get across is my This is my mantra,
and this is the quote of the day comes from me.
This was my mantra all during the season, and I
think it absolutely applies during the playoffs at any time.
But score first and score last. Score first. The team
that normally during the season scores first always has an advantage.
I always wanted to put the first run up, so

(56:31):
I would yell in the doug that we'd come out
for a first at bat. Score first. Score first. Of course,
if you're under road sometimes I mean at home, sometimes
the other team might beat you to that punch. But
always the attempt is always to score first and then
score last. Scoring last would be you have a lead,
that's the jug run where you go for the jugular
bottom of the eighth or top of the ninth. You

(56:52):
already grab a lead. You want to score going into
that last at bat to really drive a stake into
the heart of the other side, go for the jugulars
so that you take any kind of motivation away from
them for their last a bat. So I would be
yelling all the time, score first when we get to
that last point, score lastness, how about a jug run
right here. Those are the kind of little things to

(57:14):
me that that's a fundamental for me. Every baseball team,
any team in any sport, but any maybe not so
much basketball. But you want to score first, and you
want to score last with the lead, because that really
that's the one that really prevents them, takes that little
edge away from them in their last at bat. So
those are the things I always found necessary and important

(57:34):
this time of the year.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Score first and score last. I love it. That's a
winning strategy, no doubt. Great time of year, Joe. I
think one of the best days in the count lendar
for baseball is the Wednesday, Game two of the Wildcard series,
because you get four elimination games in one day. Nervous
time for managers, for fans. It is awesome.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Whether it's so cool, you know, the one game Wildcard
I've been in a couple of them, I think, right,
I know for sure in Cleveland the one year we
played Toronto on a Sunday, had to win that game
to get to play Texas on Monday night in an
actual playoff game they get into the playoffs, which we did.
So you beat Toronto, beat Texas day off to play

(58:15):
Cleveland in a wildcard game. So we had three in
a row. We had three wildcard games in a row, basically,
and that's the year that we were I referenced it earlier.
We went and played I think the Red Sox in
the playoffs and pretty much we're spent from that Sunday
Monday Wednesday scenario. So anyhow, it is. It's the best
time of the year, man. And the best advice I
can give is, don't try to get too smart right now.

(58:38):
Don't try to add too much right now. Play your
game right now. The better team's gonna win. The team
that's rested and it could breathe in the moment, that
really is self confident, knows and believes in one another,
that's the team that's gonna win.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Great stuff, Joe, We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Enjoyed the Week.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
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