July 25, 2025 • 47 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci begin with their thoughts around the Yankees and what can be fixed with this team. Tom offers some lineup changes that could smooth things out. The trade deadline is approaching and Joe reveals what's happening in the front office and the clubhouse. Shohei Ohtani continues to rewrite history with his onslaught of HR's. Does Joe think there's a special approach you should take to pitching to Ohtani? Tom points out the approach to success from golfer Scottie Scheffler and wants to find some comparables in baseball. Plus, is there an 'AI approach' coming to baseball?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Darren, welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast
with me, Tom Barducci and Joe Madden. Hey Joe, you
know it's that time of year right with the trade
deadline coming up on us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I want you to put.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yourself behind the desk in Brian Cashman's office. You're running
the New York Yankees and things are not going so well, right.
I mean, I always say this is an important time
of the year. I don't know if you felt this
as a manager, Joe, but as we get to the deadline,
whether you're in or you're out, what your needs are,
they can change almost on a daily basis. So you
(00:48):
tell me, if you're Brian Cashman, what do the Yankees
do well.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I've been watching them a lot lately. You know, they're
one of the more.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Interesting groups, regardless of what their record is, obviously, and
I'm a Cashman fan, so I'm looking at the whole thing,
and you know, I'm fine with their outfield and outfield play,
that's fine, you know, the corners on on the infield.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Actually, the whole infield right.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Now is kind of in a state of flux and
that's where it begins catching. They're trying to decide whether
you know Wells or.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
As Scott a scar.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah, there's some of that going on too, but I
primarily think number one. My concern there would be third base,
probably more than anything. I think first base. When they
start at first base with the left tend hitter.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Again, yeah you got right Ri right right side, you've
got Goldsmith.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Right, I would definitely go. I think they're with the
straight up platoon. I know, you know, Goldschmith is done
okay to this point, but Rice has some serious pot man.
He is like so strong when he hits a ball
gets mangled, and I know he has some catching ability too,
But I wouldn't go there, but I would play more
as a straight up platoon. Goldsmith's numbers are decent, but
overall it's kind of like a lot of empty numbers too.
(01:58):
And I know he's wonderful and and I like him
a lot, don't get me wrong. But this other kid,
he could give them a little spice that they're looking for.
So I would go warba straight up platoon there overall.
And if there's a reverse splip guy, maybe pop Goldschmid.
Third base is my concern. You know, shortstop Foltpy really
just rushing a lot of the throw he made in
the dirt the other day. Don know if you saw
the replay I did, he actually got down on one
(02:20):
knee to catch the ball and then got up and
throw it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So that's when a guy starts.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Getting down on one knee, that's really you're getting overly careful.
You're not sure of yourself, You're losing that, you know,
playing through the ball, aggressive, this setting your feet, all
that stuff. With that one instant replay, I understood why
he was having such a hard time. And then, of course,
the third baseman is a utility guy at best, so
start off there's in house. I would go with the
(02:45):
back and forth at first base, but I definitely would
focus on third base and beyond that. You know, they're
bullpens kind of okay, but overall they're they're not getting
with the Williams is not exactly who he's supposed to be.
I know, his numbers seem somewhat okay, but I just
don't see this here we go attitude. It looks like
he guides a lot of pitches. To me, he's still
not completely comfortable as fatial expressions.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Are not good. We were coming back slowly.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I still think it's the better closer than to Lewaiseiga
rt Arm, but still hasn't found his spot yet.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Is his is just his way again?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
He does not look comfortable, So I would really possibly
try to get a relief pitcher to shore that up
a little bit if that's available. It definitely focuses on
third base. Leave my outfield alone. And I would be
a little bit concerned with Freed with this blister situation
because overall, yes, they're just pounding fastballs early. And I
thought maybe because when he throws his breaking ball, that's
(03:41):
when he feels a discomfort with this, with this blister.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Of little nuance going on with the Yankees, a lot
of little subplots that need to be addressed. Platoon at
first for sure, new third basement, and there's other stuff
to work on.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, well you hit it, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I mean that is a that is a long list
when it comes to shopping this time of year. You
mentioned Free, he has not pitched well for a while now.
It definitely seems to be blister related. He's not the lockdown,
you know, losing streak stopper that he was in the
first two to three months of the season. Concern there,
You know, the last forty seven games, it's essentially a
(04:19):
quarter of the season. The Yankees are twenty one and
twenty six. They've gone from seven games up to four
games out their era and that span is four and
a half. There's some issues here, and it's pitching, and
it's definitely defense as well. The Yankees are twentieth in
Major League Baseball in defense and they're thirty two and
(04:41):
thirty three against winning teams. There's a lot to correct here.
I agree that third base is definitely an issue. That
you just can't punt the position the way they are
with essentially utility guys playing over there.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I vault he's a concern. There's no doubt. I saw
the same thing as you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I saw a guy drop to one KDE and a
routine ground ball and almost short arm.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
That bought the first base.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
To me, it's the body language screams a lack of confidence,
and sometimes he plays the game too fast. He's trying
to make plays that he shouldn't be making. And I
know Aaron Boone is going to defend his players I mean, Joe,
he takes your advice to an extreme when it comes
to criticize privately and praise publicly. I mean, open up
your eyes. He is not a good defender this year
(05:22):
for whatever reason. You know, he went from last year
being plus ten on fielding run value, which was twenty
fourth overall in baseball, really high.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
He's negative to this year.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He's one hundred and forty ninth in terms of defensive value.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
He's tied with Pete Alonso.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I mean, this is a guy who's also got a
career on base percentage of two eighty seven. That is
one of the lowest when you talk about someone who's
now played more than four hundred games and more than
fifteen hundred played appearances. He's had tremendous run here, never
got sent back to the minor leagues, just has not
figured out swing decisions on breaking pitches so you can
(06:00):
pitch to him. And now his best asset had been
defense and he doesn't have that now. I mean that's
an issue. I mean, not that Volpi has to be
the key to this team. I would bet him ninth.
Make him that second leadoff hitter, take some pressure off him,
because to me, Joe watching him play baseball. Right now,
he's become a narrative first of all, which you'd never
(06:21):
want to do in New York, right because he's being
portrayed as something even worse than he is. Every error
now is being magnified. Boone has to answer for him
after a game, after every era. You've got to take
some pressure off this kid. I'm not sure how you
do it, other than again, I might bet him ninth,
but he's not the player he should be.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Well, last year we were stolen his virtues. You know,
he was like kind of the glue guy for a
period of time there. He was like indispensable to their success.
Recently the Mets sent down Alvarez and he came back
with a bang.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And this is the part where I don't think it's
a bad thing. I really don't.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, I've also done that with Brett Batty and some
other guys. I don't think the worst thing in the world, right.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
I mean, when a guy got to this point where
he can't even feel the routine round ball, he needs
a breath, so it's not a bad thing. And and
you know, I know Chisholm's played some short stop, hasn't
he but this requires a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I mean, he's not a plus defender, but you could
do that for you talking about sending him down for
a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Right, but either is Volpe right now, So I mean
you're not you're not necessarily losing a lot. And I
don't know who would play second base. That's part of it,
because you're opening up another kettle of fish right here
when you do something like that. But to the benefit
the Yankees and Volpi, it might be necessary to do
that for a brief period of time. They'll they'll pick
up the slack somehow if they could somehow figure out
a third basement at least, and and if Volpi continues
(07:43):
this way, it might be wise to send him down,
throw Chisholm at shortstop, new third basement.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I'm sure they're hopefully trying to get that done.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And then the position I would screw around with a
little bit, maybe second base and until Volpi comes back,
and then move Chisholm back or who knows how it
would work out. But their defense is killing them, man,
And you know, overall, fundamentally, for the last couple of
years we've talked about it often they're just they rely
so much on the bank. They are the Bronx Bombers,
and they really.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Try to portray that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Then again, you watch the Milwaukee Brewers play baseball, and
I can just see Murph sitting in the dugout because
I know Murph and I know where he comes from,
and you watch a completely different method being incorporated there
and how successful it's been daily.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So yeah, there's a lot to do there.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Philosophically, they just can't abandon what they believe. And that's
not my point, but overall, they need to catch the
ball they need. And when you talk about pitchers and eras,
and of course there's unruns to be dealt with, but
when you have to throw more pitches to get outs
because routine plays are not being made, sometimes not even errors,
it's just that plays that aren't being made that should
(08:47):
be made, pitchers then have to throw more pitches, and
then your pitching staff becomes less effective. It's just one
big it's just one big ball of confusion that you
got has sort out and I'm knowing Cash, I anticipate
he might make some bold moves here.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
They're kind of in a bind with Anthony Volpi because
they really don't have a better option right now. It
involves you know, other dominoes following, which you know mid
season right now, you really don't want to do Rice.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
To me, he's a dead fastball hitter.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I can't believe Jeff Hoffman in a tie game threw
him a first pitch fastball hit out of the park.
That was a huge win for the Yankees. They did
not consolidate it the next night because they come back again.
They throw the ball around, they kick it around, and
the same problems that we saw in the World Series
last year are still there. If I'm Brian Cashman, I
probably look at Arizona right now, I look at Suarez,
(09:38):
and I look at Zach Gallen, the third baseman and
a starting pitcher. I do think they need a starting pitcher.
I'm with you on the bullpen as well. I think
if you go into postseason with Freed, Luis Heal coming back,
and Gallon, you're in pretty good shape at the top
of the rotation. It's gonna cost you, though, and the
Yankees are going to try to make a deal without
trading Spencer Jones, who's absolutely blossom this year. He still
(10:00):
strikes out thirty one percent of the time, but at
six foot seven, left hand hitter who's absolutely just I
mean killing it in Triple A right now. I'm talking
about slugging over eight hundred. They're the top prospect is
George Lombard, junior shortstop. Maybe he winds up somewhere else,
but he's a great athlete having a good season.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
He's young, but I don't see.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Him on the table, and they're going to try to
make a deal without having Spencer Jones in there.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
But you know, listen, you've got a lot of needs here.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You're gonna have to It's got to hurt a little
bit if you're talking about fixing the major league team
at the major league level in the middle of a
pennant race.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
But there's real issues here with this New York Yankees team.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I would not look away from the Angels.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
You know, I've been watching them a lot, and I've
really been impressed with the way they've been hanging in there.
I think they got some really nice I love Netto.
Netto is spectacular. I mean there's a guy that, of
course they're not going to trade him, but he's the
guy that could fix the Yankees. But Luis Renhifo, he's
able to play third and second. I don't even know
what his numbers look like right now, but it wouldn't
even worry about that. I think you put him in
a situation like that, he could play second base there.
(11:02):
I'm not so sure at third base, but he could
play second base.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
There in New York.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
And I think you might get even a little bit
more offensively out of it, more than you think if
he gets a little bit refreshed.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Great kid, outstanding kid, plays.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
He's a strong He's a strong little guy. I mean
he's he's really strong. He's not very tall, but he's bulky,
and he hits the ball hard, runs decently. Could make
some mistakes, he has some mental mistake concerns, but I mean,
I think he's a great fit. In Moncata, here's a
guy that when he really he's very streaky, but he
gets streaky hot too. And I don't know him well enough,
(11:34):
even though I worked him out years ago. But those
two guys may not come at a high price, Renifo
and Moncata, and those two guys I think would be
worth taking a chance at if in fact, you can't
get a Suarez and a Gallon in one felt.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Swoop, Because they may cost too much.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
The you know, doing number two might be somebody like
Renhifa and Mancato Mancato who may be able to help
the Yanche somewhat.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, I mean I like those ideas, And as long
as you brought that up, Joe, I'd look at you know,
which teams should be selling at this time of year,
and the Angels are on my list.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I mean the Angels.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, they've they've done a decent job here hanging in,
but that's the worst defensive team in baseball.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
They strike out way too much.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
They have a weird mix of players, you know, some veterans,
stop gap guys, some young guys who are like netto
establishing themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Adele's had a really good season.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But I look at this, there's eighteen teams in the
major leagues right now at five hundred or better. So
if you're not at five hundred, you got a lot
of teams in front of you for the wildcard chase.
So you've got Arizona two games under, Minnesota three games under,
Angels three games under, and the Royals at four games under.
I'm sorry, but I don't see those four teams as
(12:48):
potential playoff teams. Could it happened, Sure, I mean, look
at the trade last year. Everybody's going to use that
as an example. Get red hot for two months and
you're in. But I think you got to be realistic,
and I think those four teams have to take advantage
of so many teams now shopping and what they have,
and especially Arizona. Arizona, to me, hold the key to
the trade deadline. You're talking about Meryl Kelly, Zach Gallon, Au, Hennyiswarez,
(13:09):
justin nail Or. They've got a lot of guys who
are going to help a playoff team, and I think
they have to take advantage of it. So those four teams,
to me, Joe, are the ones on the bubble so
to speak, that should be selling.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Arizona more recently has done that. They have had the
late run and been successful, So for that reason, I
think they may hold just because of their recent history
and they do it. You just mentioned some really good players,
So if anybody's going to hold, I think it's going
to be them. However, anybody that's at or below five
hundred right now, and it's been that way pretty much
(13:40):
all season, it's hard to believe all of a sudden
you're going to start playing like six hundred baseball. I
think you guess have to be realistic now. I never
wanted to concede anything during the course of the year,
you know that. But if I'm running this whole thing
right now and I could make my team better going
into the future, I e Angels because they do have
some nice young players, and I think what they've done
a great job of is choosing the right veterans. I
(14:02):
think that's a big part of why they've hung in
there so well, which you talk about Kyle Hendricks there
right now, Darneault behind the plate, I could see all
this influence I believe. I don't know this for a fact,
but the guys that they've brought in I think have
done a nice job of whatever the narrative is to
talk in the clubhouse before the game, whatever, I believe
these guys may have been somewhat responsible for that. And
(14:26):
these are also good guys to trade. Kyle Hendricks perfect
guy to trade right now, no question, Darnault. If Sony
needs a catcher, let them go right now. Those I mean,
they got some guys to unload, even the Yankees with
catching If you want to right had a hitting catcher.
Darnault's a good name with the playoff experience he's had.
So I would go shopping at the Angels right now, because,
as you suggested, it's a weird mix, but I think
(14:48):
it was a necessary mix for them to survive this
year and get themselves on the right track. And I
think I believe signing those guys early on for this
season they had to have in the back of their
minds here comes the trade deadline. These guys could be
kind of attractive either end of as a group.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
So I would go shopping there.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I think that's your best spot to find somebody right
now that might be able.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
To help you.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, Taylor warded in that mix, absolutely, he can really
I mean that's the middle of the order. Bat I
can bring you some value. Joe, last thing here on
the trade deadline. Take me inside what it's like for
a manager in the last week up to the deadline.
I know that I spoke with Matt Cortrau or the
Royals the other day. You know, he had a meeting
coming out of the break, like trying to keep the
(15:32):
team's focus on the here and now and look around
this room and let's trust each other and what we
have here instead of you know, paying attention to the
noise on what may be coming in or actually what
may be going out.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It's got to be a tricky time of year. Tell
me how a manager navigates it.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Yeah, you're right, and you start hearing the narrative and
you start, you know, watching guys, and it's about the
conversations at the water cooler kind of a thing where
those the guys will say the right things in front
of you, but with a coach, they might want to
fight in or among players, like I said, within the
locker room at the water cooler, like in the old days,
(16:09):
that's where the scuttle but occurs. And there's a lot
of you know, someone that you'll get the sarcastic or
the innuendo remarks among the group that really just tear
at the fabric of what you're trying to do there.
And guys are just unsettled, and they're unsettled that they
just are. From my perspective, I've always felt they needed
to see the same guy walk in the room every day.
(16:29):
And those are the kind of questions speculation that would
not answer press conference wise, because that serves no purpose
right there. I would always always suggest and say that
the answers lie within the room. And when it comes
to acquisitions and putting the team together, I said, that's
the front offices department, and I have nothing to do
with that, and you have to trust that they're going
(16:49):
to make good decisions and in the meantime, we have
to take care of our own business here. But innuendo
is really a very negative kind of conversation when guys
are always slinging them back and forth, and it gets
as that's annoying. There's no question about that. I've never
really gotten upset to the point where I actually have
addressed it, but I recognize it. And then you really
(17:11):
need a positive coaching staff at this point because that's
where the players are going to go.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
They're going to go talk to those guys, and.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Your coaches have to be equipped in a sense that
they're not going to buy into the player narrative here
and concede or become an ally with the conversation of
the narrative among the players.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
You can't do that.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
You can't do that because that's when it really could
bring you down. So as a manager, same guy every day,
you know, strong coaching staff that's not going to concede
to the conversation within the group and become an ally
to this. This kind of a dissension, not intentionally, but
unintentional dissension that can pretty much.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Doom the rest of your season.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Hey Joe, it's been a while since we checked in
with one of our favorite subjects, and we will have
to do that after this short break. And that is
the great sho hey Otani, who keeps giving.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Us more reasons to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
We'll do that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. More amazement from
sho hey Otani. It's just incredible, Joe, the way this guy,
he keeps doing things we haven't seen before. In this case,
he's on a streak of five straight games with a
home run that ties a Dodger record. It's seven of
his last nine hits have been home runs. Dave Roberts
to try to get Moki Betts going, he's just had
(18:39):
a really down year. Moved Oughtani to the second spot
in the lineup and had Bets leading off, protecting him
with show Hey behind him. Doesn't matter to show Hey,
I mean you put him anywhere. He hits anywhere. Here's
what I noticed on show, Hey Joe, I mean, he's
seeing more breaking pitches this year, but he's absolutely destroying
breaking pitches. I mean his lugging percentage on breaking pitches
(19:02):
is six ninety five. The second best in baseball is
Ralphie eld Devers all the way down at six twenty four.
It's just amazing the way he covers the plate. Any
breaking ball up down, it really doesn't matter now that
shohe is on just about everything. So again, they're throwing
him more breaking balls this year, but he's doing even
more damage on breaking stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I mean, how do you pitch to this guy? Joe?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Of course he is because he knows that and he's
making adjusting. He's made adjustments to that. I wouldn't doubt that.
He just looks for it premeditated and you know, on deck,
circle in the hole, talking to his coach, knowing who
this picture is, and he'll just go up there looking
for something. The thing that makes a hitter great is
that when he sees it, he doesn't miss it. You know,
you could have the best plan in the world, and
(19:46):
if you can't actually see the picture looking for put
your a hack on it and keep it fair. That's
really the sign of a great hitter. And that's why
he's so devastating, because if he's looking for something and
sees it, it's going to be fair and hit hard.
How do you pitch him? Well, I would just continually
test his patience. I would not when you say break
(20:07):
the ball, you know, under the zone at his back foot, Yes,
something to that effect. Stuff down in a way. Everything's
got to be off the edges. I would just test
his patience as much as possible. Never concede, Never think
he set up for anything. Never think you got him.
It's like you have Vladimir Guerrero. When we were working
against lad After I left the Angels, they said, listen,
(20:30):
don't ever think he set up for a pitch. Don't
ever think you got him. You think if I do this,
he's not looking for him, going to sneak it by him.
Don't ever think that. And don't never think that your
stuff is any different than anybody else's. And then it's
going to play up against this guy. Don't think that.
It's not true.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So you got to keep your ego out of this.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
When you're facing show and you got to be willing
to concede a base can see that. You have to
test his patience. It's just ego has no place.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
In pitching to him.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
You can feel your best fastball, you can feel your
best anything.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Great, but he has this other worldly.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Baseball sensorability to figure things out that you don't have.
Just being honest, So that's how I would do it.
Don't ever think he's set up for anything, and test
his patience. And if you walk him, just wave them
the first space.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean, I'm with you that really the only safe
zone with show Hey is spinning off speed like lower
than low right and try to get him the chase,
or at least limit the power a little bit by
having it all the way down and the way. But
I agree with you because I've seen so many pitchers things.
They've got him set up with a high fastball because
they work the bottom soft he destroys those pitches. Actually,
(21:45):
slugging is now higher against breaking stuff than fastballs, which
is crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
But let's step back a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Because next month show Hey will have one thousand games
in the major leagues, and he's going to get there
with more home runs than any hitter in his first
thousand games except Aaron Judge, Ryan Howard, Ralph Kiner. That's
amazing when you think about on the mound, he's also
made eighty starts and he's thirty four and sixteen with
(22:12):
a two eight er. I mean that's otherworldly. Like his
first one thousand games are going to compare very favorably
to Alex Rodriguez. And you know, just imagine if Alex
Rodriguez was also Roger Clemens on the mound. That's essentially
what we're looking at with Sho Hee Otani.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Yes, I mean, it's it's never ending. I anticipate good health.
I mean the guy you've just described him, he's just different.
He's just different. And I knew that from the beginning
when people were challenging like his workout routine. Why does
he not do what everybody else does? Why is he
on a separate program? Because he needs to be because
(22:49):
what he does is different to it all everybody, what
all you, all of you are doing.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
He does different things.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
He's able to do two things at a Hall of
Fame level and not even an All star level. So
stay out of this conversation. Putcher again, your ego's got
to go in your back pocket. Understand, if you were
able to do that same stuff, i'd give you the
same kind of latitude. He's just different. So good health.
It's going to continue at this level at least, if
(23:15):
not better. The concern would always be if he would
have hurt his arm one more time. And I hope
that doesn't happen because he's just like such a jewel
to the sport. But if it were to happen, he
would come back again. And I think you could either
just deasan where I would actually put him in a
position and then he's going to show you that he's
gold glove defense at that point too.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And who knows, he may even have that in the.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Back of his mind that he doesn't want to threaten
the loss of his arm. Maybe just wants to pitch
for maybe another year, let's say, And if he's well,
he might say something like, you know what, I want
to just continue as a hitter. Put me in right field,
and I'll show you that I could be beneficial as
a right fielder only as an example.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I don't put that past them.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
I know this about show and I've seen it myself,
and I've talked to the Dodger people about this. One
of his greatest traits, besides his incredible physical skills, is
that the way he plays the game with a lack
of stress. It's a very stressful game. It's a hard
game to play. There's so much outside noise to it.
None of that matters to show Heyo Tani. It's an
amazing way that he's able to play the game stress free,
(24:20):
whether he's going well, whether he's not, whether the team
is going well or not, and none of those externals
really matter to show. Hey Otani, And I bring that up, Joe,
because I don't know if you caught the press conference
before the open of Scotti Scheffler. It got a lot
of people's attention because he is like the anti hero,
if you will, in terms of athletic heroes these days, because.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
He's not larger than life.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He does not want to trans transcend the sport and
be something bigger.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
He's not looking for endorsements.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
He's got that same kind of ease about him that
it caught a lot of people actually off guard when
he spoke at that press conference. And give you a
little snippet there, he said, I love the challenge and
talk about playing golf. I love able to play this
game for a living. It's one of the greatest joys
of my life. But does it fill the deepest wants
and desires of my heart? Absolutely not. Why do I
(25:13):
want to win the Open Championships so badly? I don't know,
because if I win, it's going to be an awesome
two minutes. Then we're going to go to next week.
It's amazing that he is so grounded, Joe. I mean,
you're talking about a guy who met his caddy at
a Bible study.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
He met his wife in high school. They've been together
ever since then.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
His closest people to him are his son, his three
sisters and friends he's known his Bible study group. The
things that fulfill Scottie Scheffler are not winning majors, and
I think a lot of the American press and fans
have a hard time dealing with that concept, Like we
want guys to just you know, Tiger Woods was lauded
(25:53):
not just because he was great, but because he brought
new people to the game that he transcended to sport.
They became a cultural icon, his image, his brand was everywhere.
We equate that with success and Scotty's paving this path
here that has nothing to do with the spoils of victory.
He wants to compete, but his fulfillment comes with things
(26:13):
that don't have anything to do with golf.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I thought that was so refreshing to hear.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Wonderful way to live, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I mean, he just it all starts going back to
high school, meets his wife at that particular point, and
the fact that he is so grounded within his religion,
all that stuff matters.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I mean, when you have that kind of foundation, that
kind of base.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Than your view of the world and what it means
with his success and what am I looking forward? Are
my motivations here? It kind of defines that very quickly
and easily. He's a man of simple means. He does
not need a whole lot to bring him happiness outside
of his own family and his Bible. I mean that's
(26:52):
and listen, I can understand that where I come from,
how I grew up here in the Hazleton area of Pennsylvania,
it was really more of an old school method.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's a method that's rooted.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
I don't know I grew up I mean overall, I
mean my Pop's generation, my generation, he kind of got
lost with that. It's not nearly as prominent as.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
It had been.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Heck, when I was in Prochioschol, I went to church
every day. You had to go there every morning before Mass.
I think you might have done the same thing. You
had to receive communion every day. He had this tradition
based family where you always had you always got together
as a group on Easter's, Christmas, Thanksgivings, that during the summer,
you had family reunions. I mean, all this stuff happened annually.
It was always right there. You look forward to it,
(27:34):
and you wanted to be with this large group of
family members. And you know, six was success. I mean
for me, you know, I wanted to get out of
here and I wanted to play ball. But I'm living
here again because of a lot of the reasons you
just described. And I feel that when I come back
here to Pennsylvania, to Hazelton, Sugarloaf right now where I'm at.
So it's where he's from, It's what he was taught
(27:56):
as a kid, and he never forgot that. I think
also the fact that he has been so successful, winning
so often, I think it's somewhat makes it easier to
describe it in this way. Had he not been as successful,
he might be chasing it a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
But the fact that he has had.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
So much successive things satiates all the competitive desires in
a way that, yeah, he could win it, he gets
his trophy, does something nobody else has.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Done, easier to move on from there.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So there's I think I still think that's a small
part of it too. However, foundation man bedrock matters and
that's what makes him say what he says, and that's
why he truly believes.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
It, and maybe that's what has helped him be so successful, right.
I mean he was asked before the Masters about his
odds of winning that tournament, and he said, it doesn't
matter if I win this tournament or lose the tournament.
My identity is secure forever. I mean, I'm going to
pick your brain here, Joe, to say, if you've got
a comp that you've managed or played against, not so
(28:58):
much the same kind of lifestyle, but I'm talking about
the security, the confidence to be who you are and
not sweat what the result is going to be. Two
guys come to my mind when it comes to that.
One is Derek Jeter. You know, he never worried about
failing in a big moment. He was very secure with himself.
Not for the same reasons as Scottie Scheffler. There was
(29:20):
just something about the way he was raised, like he
knew who he was. He didn't have to prove himself
to anybody, including to himself, and he just took things
as they came and was just relaxed the big moments.
And the other one for me is Greg Maddix. You know,
Greg Maddox was signed, didn't throw hard, especially hard. He
threw harder than people thought early in his career, by
(29:41):
the way, but six foot right hander with just incredible command.
And all the times I talked to Greg, you'd always
come back to kind of the same mantra, which was,
I'm playing with house money. You know, he accomplished so
much more that you know, the second half of his
career he was so content is the wrong word. I
guess secure is a better word that all of this was.
(30:02):
You know, he could not have been anticipated being really
one of the greatest right headed pitchers who ever lived.
And he enjoyed the fact that, as he said, I'm
playing with house money and I just saw this ease
and this contentment where you don't sweat, you know, the
bad games or the bad innings. Those are the two
guys that come to my mind. I'm wondering if there's
(30:23):
anybody in a similar vein, Joe that that you've been
around and picked up that vibe.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I'm gonna give you four names.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
As as you were describing all that, I'm going thin
slicing four names that came immediately to mind. Kyle Hendricks,
Timmy Salmon, David Eckstein, and Ben Zobrist. They all kind
of have that kind of filter that that that worldview
that you're describing. Kyle the most centered pitcher fellow person.
(30:51):
Very rarely did you ever see any kind of emotion
to the point where he just was devastating if something
didn't go well on a baseball field. Timmy Salmon got
hit in the face in the minor leagues badly and
had his job broken, and he came back from that.
David Eckstein was the most he played the game. He
was like he was like it was almost like a show,
didn't have show's ability, but eck was always playing a
(31:11):
game within the game on the field. And Ben Zebra's unique,
just a unique human being man. And when he first
came up with the rays utility kind of it was
a shortstop, then became utility, and he was truly one
of the first legitimate super utility guys. But all these
guys away from the field had a real strong sense
of family, very grounded, didn't get emotionally bent out of
(31:33):
shape if things didn't go well for them, because they
knew if they just stayed the course, it was going
to come back and get better.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And I could talk to them during the game, we'd have.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Normal conversations, they'd come back and see things, and then
we would have the give and take with that. So, yeah,
these are four guys that I really have so much
respect for, and I thought they played the game properly
and took it the right way.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
When things didn't go well.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I knew you'd have an answer, And he gave me
four names. That was more than I asked for. And
I'm unsurprised.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Great names.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I can't say I know them as well as you,
but all those I got that same feeling, Joe, So
good call there.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I can't wait to get your take on artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Joe, AI.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Let's dive into that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I brought up AI Joe, not especially as it relates
to baseball, although it is happening in the sport. You know,
you can now break down and posing pictures in terms
of their tells and how they grip a baseball. And
they do this by having analysts overlay videos and find
out what's different. So the human eyeball is being replaced
by artificial intelligence. Just remember when you hear those words
(32:53):
artificial intelligence. Remember that first word, it's artificial. And I
bring it up Joe because there was an interesting essay
in The New York Times written by Megan O'Rourke. She's
a profet serve creative writing at Yale University. Because now
all the kids in school, you know, you need to
write an essay, you get a homework assignment, what do
you do? You know, you go to AI and basically
(33:13):
have them do that for you. And it's an incredible tool.
I mean, you have access to so many resources that
you otherwise wouldn't it does, you know, really cut the
time it takes to find things. If you're looking to
do some research, but it's actually replacing the thought process
when it comes to writing, and I actually think it's
(33:36):
it's redundant to say creative writing.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Every writing is creative.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Every writing is a human expression as much as it
is your physical characteristics. So I just want to read
a couple of clips from her piece, Joe, because maybe
I'm sure you'll have a take on this as it
relates to how baseball is becoming more technical, right and
less human? She said, Our students are caught in a
relentless arms race of jockeying for the next resume item.
(34:02):
Time to read deeply or write ref reflexively is scarce.
Where once the gentlemen see sufficed. Now my students can
use AI to secure the technocrats a.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I love that phrase.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
By the way, many are going to take that option,
especially if they believe that in the jobs they're headed for,
AI will write the memos anyway. So we're training them
to rely on AI, right, So she says, for me,
as an educator, it's quite clear when someone has used
AI to craft most of their essay, when asked basic
critical questions on the paper, the ones who relied on
(34:37):
AI know very little about what they wrote. And start
bluffing in obvious ways. I'll give you the floor, Joe,
because I do think that's again a warning shot about
we've come to this precipice of convenience with a lot
of things. But convenience doesn't necessarily mean better. It's just saying,
(34:58):
don't do away with, but be careful with.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
The arts are at risk. I mean I think overall
arts or at risk.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Whether it's just creative writing, whether it's writing a play,
whether it's art itself, whether it's painting, any anything that
pertains to the arts is at risk because now you
could ask this artificial being to create, whether it's something
to write, something mural, whatever, composition, music for a group.
(35:26):
The critical thinking is no longer important. You're the reading
that you've done growing up is no longer important. None
of that matters anymore because you're not going to be
asked to utilize that, and then you you whatever that
is that send you, that part of you, that that
that the guts that you have in your in your
stomach is no longer part of this. Your life experiences
(35:47):
don't matter. The observation of looking out your window and
describing that tree or describing that golf course of that tribe.
That doesn't matter anymore because you're going to rely on
this thing to then describe for you so that you
could then attempt to benefit per sell it become famous
by it by artificial means, and that's creative for critical thinking.
(36:10):
I think goes by the white side. The arts are
at risk for me. AI what would I like it?
I want it in medicine, man, absolutely, I want I
want the best possible thought process regarding medicine, whether it's
the anti aging, whether it's cancer, whether it's Parkinson's, whatever
it might be that is really stumped us to this point.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Absolutely apply it.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I think defending your country, I mean when it comes
to defense, I mean it's going to be widespread, and
I think hopefully that it's all going to balance one
another out to the point where I don't care how
unsophisticated a place may appear to be. This is going
to make them more sophisticated quickly. So all of a sudden,
you're going to have this arms race defensively, and that's
where it could become very important. I think money, finances,
(36:51):
fall street, whatever that's going to really rely on this
even more so. And I'm not as concerned about that.
I'm concerned about the critical thinking of human beings. I'm
concerned about the arts. I mean, that's where my heart is,
that's where your heart is, and for me, that's where
the game of baseball is.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And it's going in the wrong direction.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I used to talk about, you know, the the inexact
science of scouting as a as a young scout, and
how that pertained to your experience of what you saw
and if could you actually see things and you break
things down, can you slow it down?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Can you think in the moment? Can you can.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
You rely on something that's happened to you in the
past and incorporate it right now?
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Not necessary?
Speaker 4 (37:28):
And this is even when you talk about baseball the
acceptance of artificial intelligence and what that means even further,
and I'm just going to speak from the seat that
I held. It's going to deem the manager even more use.
As I'm telling you, met sets are coming around the right,
around the corner. It's like an NFL coach whatever. Uh,
there's going to be a tremendous amount of input from
(37:50):
somebody sitting on top down below, and they're gonna think
it's okay, it's good because you know, everybody's doing it.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
We're all good.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
We're gonna have the same, uh, pretty much the same
set of information, and we're going to try to choreograph
from above and what you've done in the past, what
you've read, what you've learned, where you've been. The mistakes
you've made are pointless at this point, so the arts
are at risk. So there's some areas that I do
like it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, and I want to swing this again like you
just did, Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Bring it back to baseball, because watching the Yankees in Toronto,
you know, Aaron Boone had one of his great rants
with I believe it was mannigan Zalas, the home plate
umpire on ball strike calls, right, I mean, the umpire
gave it back to him. I mean it was pretty
cool to see, I mean literally face to face, almost
spitting on each other.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
They were that close. And that's going away. We know that.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
And I understand what Boone is doing there. I mean,
his pitching coach got wrong, so he's defending him. But
he also seen, as we talked about his team kicking
the ball around for the last month and a half.
You know, he's tired of watching it, tired of answering
for it, and that was, you know, listening, he let
off some steam. There's no question about it. It's part
of the game's tradition that's going away. As we talked
(39:01):
about Joe with the ABS, the automated ball strike system
where now you can challenge, and the more I think
about it, I like the system, but I would limit
it to maybe just one challenge per game because we
saw in the All Star game that and I know
they've done this in the minor leagues as well. When
you start getting five or six challenges, right, it becomes
(39:22):
too many. You're stopping the game down. The novelty is gone,
and you're not necessarily changing the calls that might change
the game. You're just changing a call. And I'm all about,
you know, getting it right. You don't want that basis
loaded three to two pitch that decides the game to
be miscalled.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
But listen, these umpires do a great job.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
If you look at the data, they're actually doing better
and better, especially this year where they've been told you've
got less of a buffer zone on your grading system,
and they're doing a great job. But even the best
umpires they're gonna miss five to ten calls a game.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Do I want all five to ten of those calls
to be reviewed?
Speaker 3 (39:57):
No?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
So you're saying you're giving them two, but you retain
your challenge if you're right, Well, they're going to be
right probably fifty sixty percent of the time. So now
your two becomes three to five. And if each team
is doing that, I don't want to stop the game
that many times. So again I would dip a toe
into these waters rather than going full on in. And
(40:19):
if it's just what you really have to be judicious
about it.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
It's coming.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
I understand that you're not going to stop progress. I'm
not against that, but I do think we need governors
on these technological improvements so to speak.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Yeah, it is progress, you know, I still ask myself
that question, is progress just because you're going to change
because it's available to do something like that, as it
progressive or is it necessary to do that? And I
still insist that the marriage with professional sports and betting
and gambling as part of the requirement right here, that's
why it's got to be perfect. And you just described
(40:53):
exactly why I believe it's not. It shouldn't be as important,
it's not as necessary. The ability for the manager to
go out there and really get into with an umpire
part of entertainment, part of the ability to defend your brood.
Also the potential to motivate. All these things are part
of the entertainment value of our game. It's going to
become very staid. It's going to be so predictable. The
(41:17):
emotion is going to be subtracted.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Right now.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
You get you know, you got the guys that accused
them that running cards, You got bat flips. I just
read about something happened in New Jersey. I think it
was where a kid got suspended for a bat flip
in a game because with something, you know, inappropriate behavior.
Even though they had this, this organization had sent out
videos on social media about kids flipping bats. They're going
to do exactly with the major league I did. I
(41:41):
did exactly what major league players. I used to stand
like Orlando Cupaida, you wear your socks that way. And
if I could have grown an afro like Oscar Gamble,
I would have. You know, there's always going to be
that replication, So be careful with what we're doing right here.
So again, my concern, my problem with a lot of
it is I think this so called progress is the
result of the over arching, overbearing, the this, this we're
(42:05):
arriving at this point where everything's got to be gambled
upon and with that, and it's so easy to gamble
upon it, and the fact that I still believe something
bad is gonna happen because of this. I mean like
somebody's gonna get injured off the field because of all this.
So I they're all interconnected. So I want to hear
the word progress, hear the word progressive just because you
have something, a different idea or something you're now able
(42:26):
to do it that you weren't able to do before.
Not necessarily what you need, and I don't think it
absolutely needed.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
In the sport, we.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Are all gunning for the technocrats. A I love that.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
That really nails it.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Speaking of nailing it, you do it every time on
the Book of Joe podcast Joe, What do you got
to bring us home?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Today?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah? I know again we're here.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
You know, I was thinking about the trade deadline and
the five hundred teams with the slightly below five hundred teams,
and you know, their their face with what they want
to do right here was it years ago as the
White Sox were actually like even in a better position
in a race.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
The famous white flag trade right right where they were
a couple of two three games out and decided we're
going to make a big deal.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
Right, I mean, had that was like that was a
real baseball guy's working back. But it's about flexibility, adaptation,
That's what I thought. And this one is I can't
even know that this elude deniche obiiro is the name, and.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
I have to look that up.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
But it adaptation is not surrender, but the art of
thriving in the face of the inevitable. So, okay, what
is the inevitable right here? To me, it would be
if you're in a position like say the Angels or
any of the teams that are slightly below five hundred,
especially in this race, the inevitable would be that you're
probably not going to make this and so how do
I make myself better in the future. The adaptation it's
(43:43):
not a surrender, but the art of thriving in the
face of the inevitable. I thought that was really exactly
what's going on right now. You have to make that
determination as a group, I would be very difficult for
me as a manager to want my group to just
concede right now. Even if I were the Angels a
couple games under five hundred, it'd be difficult for me
to just concede at this point. You said earlier, you
(44:03):
have to consider all these teams above you, the've actually
been playing over five hundred most of the time, and
to think that you've been under five hundred most of
the time, all of a sudden, you're going to become
somebody different. That's really difficult to assume that's going to occur.
Adaptation and flexibility is important, but also being realistic and
(44:23):
really understanding and sometimes you just got hit punt for
the coffin corner for now, and the hopes that you're
going to be better the next several years.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Oh great, Joe, And let me add something to that too,
because I think this is part of what we do
in the media. We oversimplify things that everybody's either a
buyer or a seller. You know, baseball is not that
binary when it comes to team building, right, So a
team like the Angels with diamondbacks, they can make a
trade that is not necessarily waving the white flag to
(44:52):
borrow the White Sox term, but makes them better going forward.
If you don't think there's a chance you're going to
re sign these free agents to be and you need, say,
controllable pitcher for the next couple of years for a
Zach Gallen or Merrill Kelly, well you can do that
and it's not necessarily giving up on your season. I
mean that there is a lot of room between completely
(45:13):
buying and completely selling. No better case than Detroit last
year where they traded Jack Flaherty. They wound up with
Tray Sweeney, the shortstop from the Dodgers. They re signed Floherty. Actually,
did they think they were going out a run, Probably not,
but it was a deal that made sense for a
free agent to be and there they were back in
the postseason anyway. So I think we have to have
(45:34):
a slightly more sophisticated vision of what the trade deadline is.
It's the last chance for teams to get better in
the twenty twenty five season. You're not going to add
anybody after the date of value anyway. But it's also
a chance to start working on your team the next
year as well, with kind of you know, splitting the
responsibilities to hear and now and next year's team. It's
(45:57):
not necessarily either or so keep an eye on that
as we get to the deadline.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yeah, the problem is that once in a while, an
outlier will jump and all of a sudden they make
this nice run, like you know the Diamondbacks did a
couple of years ago, and like you suggested with Detroit.
So everybody sees themselves as being that that particular team.
But even going back, I'm staying on the Angel thing
when they didn't trade oh Tani coming down to the end,
and I always thought, and I do, I believe that
once a Tawny was gone, they should have traded to
(46:22):
Trot at that point to really try to benefit from
what they had right there, and they probably would.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Be even further along right now.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
So you have to be pragmatic, be honest about your evaluation.
This is where like really steady heads and minds, and
this is where you have to really not be egotistical
about it whatsoever and just try to understand what is
our vision right here, what are we trying to do,
and what is possible.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
And again last point.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
If you have been playing at below five hundred to
this point and to the season, and other teams have
been above it. It's really not wise to believe you're
gonna be able to turn a switch right now and
all of a sudden become a team that you are not.
I think that's what people are banking on, and it
really does not that way.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
It's the one time of year besides the postseason when
baseball becomes extremely urgent, the last week before the trade deadline.
Everybody's on the clock right now, and to me, no
team on the clock more than the New York Yankees.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
We'll see what they do.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Cool Man.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Perfect, All right, Joe, We'll see you next time, and
maybe has some trades to talk about.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Perfect Tommy, Thanks Buddy.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Darren, welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast
with me, Tom Barducci and Joe Madden. Hey Joe, you
know it's that time of year right with the trade
deadline coming up on us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I want you to put.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yourself behind the desk in Brian Cashman's office. You're running
the New York Yankees and things are not going so well, right.
I mean, I always say this is an important time
of the year. I don't know if you felt this
as a manager, Joe, but as we get to the deadline,
whether you're in or you're out, what your needs are,
they can change almost on a daily basis. So you
(00:48):
tell me, if you're Brian Cashman, what do the Yankees
do well.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I've been watching them a lot lately. You know, they're
one of the more.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Interesting groups, regardless of what their record is, obviously, and
I'm a Cashman fan, so I'm looking at the whole thing,
and you know, I'm fine with their outfield and outfield play,
that's fine, you know, the corners on on the infield.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Actually, the whole infield right.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Now is kind of in a state of flux and
that's where it begins catching. They're trying to decide whether
you know Wells or.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
As Scott a scar.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah, there's some of that going on too, but I
primarily think number one. My concern there would be third base,
probably more than anything. I think first base. When they
start at first base with the left tend hitter.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Again, yeah you got right Ri right right side, you've
got Goldsmith.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Right, I would definitely go. I think they're with the
straight up platoon. I know, you know, Goldschmith is done
okay to this point, but Rice has some serious pot man.
He is like so strong when he hits a ball
gets mangled, and I know he has some catching ability too,
But I wouldn't go there, but I would play more
as a straight up platoon. Goldsmith's numbers are decent, but
overall it's kind of like a lot of empty numbers too.
(01:58):
And I know he's wonderful and and I like him
a lot, don't get me wrong. But this other kid,
he could give them a little spice that they're looking for.
So I would go warba straight up platoon there overall.
And if there's a reverse splip guy, maybe pop Goldschmid.
Third base is my concern. You know, shortstop Foltpy really
just rushing a lot of the throw he made in
the dirt the other day. Don know if you saw
the replay I did, he actually got down on one
(02:20):
knee to catch the ball and then got up and
throw it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So that's when a guy starts.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Getting down on one knee, that's really you're getting overly careful.
You're not sure of yourself, You're losing that, you know,
playing through the ball, aggressive, this setting your feet, all
that stuff. With that one instant replay, I understood why
he was having such a hard time. And then, of course,
the third baseman is a utility guy at best, so
start off there's in house. I would go with the
(02:45):
back and forth at first base, but I definitely would
focus on third base and beyond that. You know, they're
bullpens kind of okay, but overall they're they're not getting
with the Williams is not exactly who he's supposed to be.
I know, his numbers seem somewhat okay, but I just
don't see this here we go attitude. It looks like
he guides a lot of pitches. To me, he's still
not completely comfortable as fatial expressions.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Are not good. We were coming back slowly.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I still think it's the better closer than to Lewaiseiga
rt Arm, but still hasn't found his spot yet.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Is his is just his way again?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
He does not look comfortable, So I would really possibly
try to get a relief pitcher to shore that up
a little bit if that's available. It definitely focuses on
third base. Leave my outfield alone. And I would be
a little bit concerned with Freed with this blister situation
because overall, yes, they're just pounding fastballs early. And I
thought maybe because when he throws his breaking ball, that's
(03:41):
when he feels a discomfort with this, with this blister.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Of little nuance going on with the Yankees, a lot
of little subplots that need to be addressed. Platoon at
first for sure, new third basement, and there's other stuff
to work on.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, well you hit it, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I mean that is a that is a long list
when it comes to shopping this time of year. You
mentioned Free, he has not pitched well for a while now.
It definitely seems to be blister related. He's not the lockdown,
you know, losing streak stopper that he was in the
first two to three months of the season. Concern there,
You know, the last forty seven games, it's essentially a
(04:19):
quarter of the season. The Yankees are twenty one and
twenty six. They've gone from seven games up to four
games out their era and that span is four and
a half. There's some issues here, and it's pitching, and
it's definitely defense as well. The Yankees are twentieth in
Major League Baseball in defense and they're thirty two and
(04:41):
thirty three against winning teams. There's a lot to correct here.
I agree that third base is definitely an issue. That
you just can't punt the position the way they are
with essentially utility guys playing over there.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I vault he's a concern. There's no doubt. I saw
the same thing as you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I saw a guy drop to one KDE and a
routine ground ball and almost short arm.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
That bought the first base.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
To me, it's the body language screams a lack of confidence,
and sometimes he plays the game too fast. He's trying
to make plays that he shouldn't be making. And I
know Aaron Boone is going to defend his players I mean, Joe,
he takes your advice to an extreme when it comes
to criticize privately and praise publicly. I mean, open up
your eyes. He is not a good defender this year
(05:22):
for whatever reason. You know, he went from last year
being plus ten on fielding run value, which was twenty
fourth overall in baseball, really high.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
He's negative to this year.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He's one hundred and forty ninth in terms of defensive value.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
He's tied with Pete Alonso.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I mean, this is a guy who's also got a
career on base percentage of two eighty seven. That is
one of the lowest when you talk about someone who's
now played more than four hundred games and more than
fifteen hundred played appearances. He's had tremendous run here, never
got sent back to the minor leagues, just has not
figured out swing decisions on breaking pitches so you can
(06:00):
pitch to him. And now his best asset had been
defense and he doesn't have that now. I mean that's
an issue. I mean, not that Volpi has to be
the key to this team. I would bet him ninth.
Make him that second leadoff hitter, take some pressure off him,
because to me, Joe watching him play baseball. Right now,
he's become a narrative first of all, which you'd never
(06:21):
want to do in New York, right because he's being
portrayed as something even worse than he is. Every error
now is being magnified. Boone has to answer for him
after a game, after every era. You've got to take
some pressure off this kid. I'm not sure how you
do it, other than again, I might bet him ninth,
but he's not the player he should be.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Well, last year we were stolen his virtues. You know,
he was like kind of the glue guy for a
period of time there. He was like indispensable to their success.
Recently the Mets sent down Alvarez and he came back
with a bang.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And this is the part where I don't think it's
a bad thing. I really don't.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, I've also done that with Brett Batty and some
other guys. I don't think the worst thing in the world, right.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
I mean, when a guy got to this point where
he can't even feel the routine round ball, he needs
a breath, so it's not a bad thing. And and
you know, I know Chisholm's played some short stop, hasn't
he but this requires a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I mean, he's not a plus defender, but you could
do that for you talking about sending him down for
a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Right, but either is Volpe right now, So I mean
you're not you're not necessarily losing a lot. And I
don't know who would play second base. That's part of it,
because you're opening up another kettle of fish right here
when you do something like that. But to the benefit
the Yankees and Volpi, it might be necessary to do
that for a brief period of time. They'll they'll pick
up the slack somehow if they could somehow figure out
a third basement at least, and and if Volpi continues
(07:43):
this way, it might be wise to send him down,
throw Chisholm at shortstop, new third basement.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I'm sure they're hopefully trying to get that done.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And then the position I would screw around with a
little bit, maybe second base and until Volpi comes back,
and then move Chisholm back or who knows how it
would work out. But their defense is killing them, man,
And you know, overall, fundamentally, for the last couple of
years we've talked about it often they're just they rely
so much on the bank. They are the Bronx Bombers,
and they really.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Try to portray that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Then again, you watch the Milwaukee Brewers play baseball, and
I can just see Murph sitting in the dugout because
I know Murph and I know where he comes from,
and you watch a completely different method being incorporated there
and how successful it's been daily.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So yeah, there's a lot to do there.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Philosophically, they just can't abandon what they believe. And that's
not my point, but overall, they need to catch the
ball they need. And when you talk about pitchers and eras,
and of course there's unruns to be dealt with, but
when you have to throw more pitches to get outs
because routine plays are not being made, sometimes not even errors,
it's just that plays that aren't being made that should
(08:47):
be made, pitchers then have to throw more pitches, and
then your pitching staff becomes less effective. It's just one
big it's just one big ball of confusion that you
got has sort out and I'm knowing Cash, I anticipate
he might make some bold moves here.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
They're kind of in a bind with Anthony Volpi because
they really don't have a better option right now. It
involves you know, other dominoes following, which you know mid
season right now, you really don't want to do Rice.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
To me, he's a dead fastball hitter.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I can't believe Jeff Hoffman in a tie game threw
him a first pitch fastball hit out of the park.
That was a huge win for the Yankees. They did
not consolidate it the next night because they come back again.
They throw the ball around, they kick it around, and
the same problems that we saw in the World Series
last year are still there. If I'm Brian Cashman, I
probably look at Arizona right now, I look at Suarez,
(09:38):
and I look at Zach Gallen, the third baseman and
a starting pitcher. I do think they need a starting pitcher.
I'm with you on the bullpen as well. I think
if you go into postseason with Freed, Luis Heal coming back,
and Gallon, you're in pretty good shape at the top
of the rotation. It's gonna cost you, though, and the
Yankees are going to try to make a deal without
trading Spencer Jones, who's absolutely blossom this year. He still
(10:00):
strikes out thirty one percent of the time, but at
six foot seven, left hand hitter who's absolutely just I
mean killing it in Triple A right now. I'm talking
about slugging over eight hundred. They're the top prospect is
George Lombard, junior shortstop. Maybe he winds up somewhere else,
but he's a great athlete having a good season.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
He's young, but I don't see.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Him on the table, and they're going to try to
make a deal without having Spencer Jones in there.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
But you know, listen, you've got a lot of needs here.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You're gonna have to It's got to hurt a little
bit if you're talking about fixing the major league team
at the major league level in the middle of a
pennant race.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
But there's real issues here with this New York Yankees team.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I would not look away from the Angels.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
You know, I've been watching them a lot, and I've
really been impressed with the way they've been hanging in there.
I think they got some really nice I love Netto.
Netto is spectacular. I mean there's a guy that, of
course they're not going to trade him, but he's the
guy that could fix the Yankees. But Luis Renhifo, he's
able to play third and second. I don't even know
what his numbers look like right now, but it wouldn't
even worry about that. I think you put him in
a situation like that, he could play second base there.
(11:02):
I'm not so sure at third base, but he could
play second base.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
There in New York.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
And I think you might get even a little bit
more offensively out of it, more than you think if
he gets a little bit refreshed.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Great kid, outstanding kid, plays.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
He's a strong He's a strong little guy. I mean
he's he's really strong. He's not very tall, but he's bulky,
and he hits the ball hard, runs decently. Could make
some mistakes, he has some mental mistake concerns, but I mean,
I think he's a great fit. In Moncata, here's a
guy that when he really he's very streaky, but he
gets streaky hot too. And I don't know him well enough,
(11:34):
even though I worked him out years ago. But those
two guys may not come at a high price, Renifo
and Moncata, and those two guys I think would be
worth taking a chance at if in fact, you can't
get a Suarez and a Gallon in one felt.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Swoop, Because they may cost too much.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
The you know, doing number two might be somebody like
Renhifa and Mancato Mancato who may be able to help
the Yanche somewhat.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, I mean I like those ideas, And as long
as you brought that up, Joe, I'd look at you know,
which teams should be selling at this time of year,
and the Angels are on my list.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I mean the Angels.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, they've they've done a decent job here hanging in,
but that's the worst defensive team in baseball.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
They strike out way too much.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
They have a weird mix of players, you know, some veterans,
stop gap guys, some young guys who are like netto
establishing themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Adele's had a really good season.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But I look at this, there's eighteen teams in the
major leagues right now at five hundred or better. So
if you're not at five hundred, you got a lot
of teams in front of you for the wildcard chase.
So you've got Arizona two games under, Minnesota three games under,
Angels three games under, and the Royals at four games under.
I'm sorry, but I don't see those four teams as
(12:48):
potential playoff teams. Could it happened, Sure, I mean, look
at the trade last year. Everybody's going to use that
as an example. Get red hot for two months and
you're in. But I think you got to be realistic,
and I think those four teams have to take advantage
of so many teams now shopping and what they have,
and especially Arizona. Arizona, to me, hold the key to
the trade deadline. You're talking about Meryl Kelly, Zach Gallon, Au, Hennyiswarez,
(13:09):
justin nail Or. They've got a lot of guys who
are going to help a playoff team, and I think
they have to take advantage of it. So those four teams,
to me, Joe, are the ones on the bubble so
to speak, that should be selling.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Arizona more recently has done that. They have had the
late run and been successful, So for that reason, I
think they may hold just because of their recent history
and they do it. You just mentioned some really good players,
So if anybody's going to hold, I think it's going
to be them. However, anybody that's at or below five
hundred right now, and it's been that way pretty much
(13:40):
all season, it's hard to believe all of a sudden
you're going to start playing like six hundred baseball. I
think you guess have to be realistic now. I never
wanted to concede anything during the course of the year,
you know that. But if I'm running this whole thing
right now and I could make my team better going
into the future, I e Angels because they do have
some nice young players, and I think what they've done
a great job of is choosing the right veterans. I
(14:02):
think that's a big part of why they've hung in
there so well, which you talk about Kyle Hendricks there
right now, Darneault behind the plate, I could see all
this influence I believe. I don't know this for a fact,
but the guys that they've brought in I think have
done a nice job of whatever the narrative is to
talk in the clubhouse before the game, whatever, I believe
these guys may have been somewhat responsible for that. And
(14:26):
these are also good guys to trade. Kyle Hendricks perfect
guy to trade right now, no question, Darnault. If Sony
needs a catcher, let them go right now. Those I mean,
they got some guys to unload, even the Yankees with
catching If you want to right had a hitting catcher.
Darnault's a good name with the playoff experience he's had.
So I would go shopping at the Angels right now, because,
as you suggested, it's a weird mix, but I think
(14:48):
it was a necessary mix for them to survive this
year and get themselves on the right track. And I
think I believe signing those guys early on for this
season they had to have in the back of their
minds here comes the trade deadline. These guys could be
kind of attractive either end of as a group.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
So I would go shopping there.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I think that's your best spot to find somebody right
now that might be able.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
To help you.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, Taylor warded in that mix, absolutely, he can really
I mean that's the middle of the order. Bat I
can bring you some value. Joe, last thing here on
the trade deadline. Take me inside what it's like for
a manager in the last week up to the deadline.
I know that I spoke with Matt Cortrau or the
Royals the other day. You know, he had a meeting
coming out of the break, like trying to keep the
(15:32):
team's focus on the here and now and look around
this room and let's trust each other and what we
have here instead of you know, paying attention to the
noise on what may be coming in or actually what
may be going out.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It's got to be a tricky time of year. Tell
me how a manager navigates it.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Yeah, you're right, and you start hearing the narrative and
you start, you know, watching guys, and it's about the
conversations at the water cooler kind of a thing where
those the guys will say the right things in front
of you, but with a coach, they might want to
fight in or among players, like I said, within the
locker room at the water cooler, like in the old days,
(16:09):
that's where the scuttle but occurs. And there's a lot
of you know, someone that you'll get the sarcastic or
the innuendo remarks among the group that really just tear
at the fabric of what you're trying to do there.
And guys are just unsettled, and they're unsettled that they
just are. From my perspective, I've always felt they needed
to see the same guy walk in the room every day.
(16:29):
And those are the kind of questions speculation that would
not answer press conference wise, because that serves no purpose
right there. I would always always suggest and say that
the answers lie within the room. And when it comes
to acquisitions and putting the team together, I said, that's
the front offices department, and I have nothing to do
with that, and you have to trust that they're going
(16:49):
to make good decisions and in the meantime, we have
to take care of our own business here. But innuendo
is really a very negative kind of conversation when guys
are always slinging them back and forth, and it gets
as that's annoying. There's no question about that. I've never
really gotten upset to the point where I actually have
addressed it, but I recognize it. And then you really
(17:11):
need a positive coaching staff at this point because that's
where the players are going to go.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
They're going to go talk to those guys, and.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Your coaches have to be equipped in a sense that
they're not going to buy into the player narrative here
and concede or become an ally with the conversation of
the narrative among the players.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
You can't do that.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
You can't do that because that's when it really could
bring you down. So as a manager, same guy every day,
you know, strong coaching staff that's not going to concede
to the conversation within the group and become an ally
to this. This kind of a dissension, not intentionally, but
unintentional dissension that can pretty much.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Doom the rest of your season.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Hey Joe, it's been a while since we checked in
with one of our favorite subjects, and we will have
to do that after this short break. And that is
the great sho hey Otani, who keeps giving.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Us more reasons to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
We'll do that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. More amazement from
sho hey Otani. It's just incredible, Joe, the way this guy,
he keeps doing things we haven't seen before. In this case,
he's on a streak of five straight games with a
home run that ties a Dodger record. It's seven of
his last nine hits have been home runs. Dave Roberts
to try to get Moki Betts going, he's just had
(18:39):
a really down year. Moved Oughtani to the second spot
in the lineup and had Bets leading off, protecting him
with show Hey behind him. Doesn't matter to show Hey,
I mean you put him anywhere. He hits anywhere. Here's
what I noticed on show, Hey Joe, I mean, he's
seeing more breaking pitches this year, but he's absolutely destroying
breaking pitches. I mean his lugging percentage on breaking pitches
(19:02):
is six ninety five. The second best in baseball is
Ralphie eld Devers all the way down at six twenty four.
It's just amazing the way he covers the plate. Any
breaking ball up down, it really doesn't matter now that
shohe is on just about everything. So again, they're throwing
him more breaking balls this year, but he's doing even
more damage on breaking stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I mean, how do you pitch to this guy? Joe?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Of course he is because he knows that and he's
making adjusting. He's made adjustments to that. I wouldn't doubt that.
He just looks for it premeditated and you know, on deck,
circle in the hole, talking to his coach, knowing who
this picture is, and he'll just go up there looking
for something. The thing that makes a hitter great is
that when he sees it, he doesn't miss it. You know,
you could have the best plan in the world, and
(19:46):
if you can't actually see the picture looking for put
your a hack on it and keep it fair. That's
really the sign of a great hitter. And that's why
he's so devastating, because if he's looking for something and
sees it, it's going to be fair and hit hard.
How do you pitch him? Well, I would just continually
test his patience. I would not when you say break
(20:07):
the ball, you know, under the zone at his back foot, Yes,
something to that effect. Stuff down in a way. Everything's
got to be off the edges. I would just test
his patience as much as possible. Never concede, Never think
he set up for anything. Never think you got him.
It's like you have Vladimir Guerrero. When we were working
against lad After I left the Angels, they said, listen,
(20:30):
don't ever think he set up for a pitch. Don't
ever think you got him. You think if I do this,
he's not looking for him, going to sneak it by him.
Don't ever think that. And don't never think that your
stuff is any different than anybody else's. And then it's
going to play up against this guy. Don't think that.
It's not true.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So you got to keep your ego out of this.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
When you're facing show and you got to be willing
to concede a base can see that. You have to
test his patience. It's just ego has no place.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
In pitching to him.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
You can feel your best fastball, you can feel your
best anything.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Great, but he has this other worldly.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Baseball sensorability to figure things out that you don't have.
Just being honest, So that's how I would do it.
Don't ever think he's set up for anything, and test
his patience. And if you walk him, just wave them
the first space.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean, I'm with you that really the only safe
zone with show Hey is spinning off speed like lower
than low right and try to get him the chase,
or at least limit the power a little bit by
having it all the way down and the way. But
I agree with you because I've seen so many pitchers things.
They've got him set up with a high fastball because
they work the bottom soft he destroys those pitches. Actually,
(21:45):
slugging is now higher against breaking stuff than fastballs, which
is crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
But let's step back a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Because next month show Hey will have one thousand games
in the major leagues, and he's going to get there
with more home runs than any hitter in his first
thousand games except Aaron Judge, Ryan Howard, Ralph Kiner. That's
amazing when you think about on the mound, he's also
made eighty starts and he's thirty four and sixteen with
(22:12):
a two eight er. I mean that's otherworldly. Like his
first one thousand games are going to compare very favorably
to Alex Rodriguez. And you know, just imagine if Alex
Rodriguez was also Roger Clemens on the mound. That's essentially
what we're looking at with Sho Hee Otani.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Yes, I mean, it's it's never ending. I anticipate good health.
I mean the guy you've just described him, he's just different.
He's just different. And I knew that from the beginning
when people were challenging like his workout routine. Why does
he not do what everybody else does? Why is he
on a separate program? Because he needs to be because
(22:49):
what he does is different to it all everybody, what
all you, all of you are doing.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
He does different things.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
He's able to do two things at a Hall of
Fame level and not even an All star level. So
stay out of this conversation. Putcher again, your ego's got
to go in your back pocket. Understand, if you were
able to do that same stuff, i'd give you the
same kind of latitude. He's just different. So good health.
It's going to continue at this level at least, if
(23:15):
not better. The concern would always be if he would
have hurt his arm one more time. And I hope
that doesn't happen because he's just like such a jewel
to the sport. But if it were to happen, he
would come back again. And I think you could either
just deasan where I would actually put him in a
position and then he's going to show you that he's
gold glove defense at that point too.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And who knows, he may even have that in the.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Back of his mind that he doesn't want to threaten
the loss of his arm. Maybe just wants to pitch
for maybe another year, let's say, And if he's well,
he might say something like, you know what, I want
to just continue as a hitter. Put me in right field,
and I'll show you that I could be beneficial as
a right fielder only as an example.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I don't put that past them.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
I know this about show and I've seen it myself,
and I've talked to the Dodger people about this. One
of his greatest traits, besides his incredible physical skills, is
that the way he plays the game with a lack
of stress. It's a very stressful game. It's a hard
game to play. There's so much outside noise to it.
None of that matters to show Heyo Tani. It's an
amazing way that he's able to play the game stress free,
(24:20):
whether he's going well, whether he's not, whether the team
is going well or not, and none of those externals
really matter to show. Hey Otani, And I bring that up, Joe,
because I don't know if you caught the press conference
before the open of Scotti Scheffler. It got a lot
of people's attention because he is like the anti hero,
if you will, in terms of athletic heroes these days, because.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
He's not larger than life.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He does not want to trans transcend the sport and
be something bigger.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
He's not looking for endorsements.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
He's got that same kind of ease about him that
it caught a lot of people actually off guard when
he spoke at that press conference. And give you a
little snippet there, he said, I love the challenge and
talk about playing golf. I love able to play this
game for a living. It's one of the greatest joys
of my life. But does it fill the deepest wants
and desires of my heart? Absolutely not. Why do I
(25:13):
want to win the Open Championships so badly? I don't know,
because if I win, it's going to be an awesome
two minutes. Then we're going to go to next week.
It's amazing that he is so grounded, Joe. I mean,
you're talking about a guy who met his caddy at
a Bible study.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
He met his wife in high school. They've been together
ever since then.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
His closest people to him are his son, his three
sisters and friends he's known his Bible study group. The
things that fulfill Scottie Scheffler are not winning majors, and
I think a lot of the American press and fans
have a hard time dealing with that concept, Like we
want guys to just you know, Tiger Woods was lauded
(25:53):
not just because he was great, but because he brought
new people to the game that he transcended to sport.
They became a cultural icon, his image, his brand was everywhere.
We equate that with success and Scotty's paving this path
here that has nothing to do with the spoils of victory.
He wants to compete, but his fulfillment comes with things
(26:13):
that don't have anything to do with golf.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I thought that was so refreshing to hear.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Wonderful way to live, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I mean, he just it all starts going back to
high school, meets his wife at that particular point, and
the fact that he is so grounded within his religion,
all that stuff matters.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I mean, when you have that kind of foundation, that
kind of base.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Than your view of the world and what it means
with his success and what am I looking forward? Are
my motivations here? It kind of defines that very quickly
and easily. He's a man of simple means. He does
not need a whole lot to bring him happiness outside
of his own family and his Bible. I mean that's
(26:52):
and listen, I can understand that where I come from,
how I grew up here in the Hazleton area of Pennsylvania,
it was really more of an old school method.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's a method that's rooted.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
I don't know I grew up I mean overall, I
mean my Pop's generation, my generation, he kind of got
lost with that. It's not nearly as prominent as.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
It had been.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Heck, when I was in Prochioschol, I went to church
every day. You had to go there every morning before Mass.
I think you might have done the same thing. You
had to receive communion every day. He had this tradition
based family where you always had you always got together
as a group on Easter's, Christmas, Thanksgivings, that during the summer,
you had family reunions. I mean, all this stuff happened annually.
It was always right there. You look forward to it,
(27:34):
and you wanted to be with this large group of
family members. And you know, six was success. I mean
for me, you know, I wanted to get out of
here and I wanted to play ball. But I'm living
here again because of a lot of the reasons you
just described. And I feel that when I come back
here to Pennsylvania, to Hazelton, Sugarloaf right now where I'm at.
So it's where he's from, It's what he was taught
(27:56):
as a kid, and he never forgot that. I think
also the fact that he has been so successful, winning
so often, I think it's somewhat makes it easier to
describe it in this way. Had he not been as successful,
he might be chasing it a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
But the fact that he has had.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
So much successive things satiates all the competitive desires in
a way that, yeah, he could win it, he gets
his trophy, does something nobody else has.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Done, easier to move on from there.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So there's I think I still think that's a small
part of it too. However, foundation man bedrock matters and
that's what makes him say what he says, and that's
why he truly believes.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
It, and maybe that's what has helped him be so successful, right.
I mean he was asked before the Masters about his
odds of winning that tournament, and he said, it doesn't
matter if I win this tournament or lose the tournament.
My identity is secure forever. I mean, I'm going to
pick your brain here, Joe, to say, if you've got
a comp that you've managed or played against, not so
(28:58):
much the same kind of lifestyle, but I'm talking about
the security, the confidence to be who you are and
not sweat what the result is going to be. Two
guys come to my mind when it comes to that.
One is Derek Jeter. You know, he never worried about
failing in a big moment. He was very secure with himself.
Not for the same reasons as Scottie Scheffler. There was
(29:20):
just something about the way he was raised, like he
knew who he was. He didn't have to prove himself
to anybody, including to himself, and he just took things
as they came and was just relaxed the big moments.
And the other one for me is Greg Maddix. You know,
Greg Maddox was signed, didn't throw hard, especially hard. He
threw harder than people thought early in his career, by
(29:41):
the way, but six foot right hander with just incredible command.
And all the times I talked to Greg, you'd always
come back to kind of the same mantra, which was,
I'm playing with house money. You know, he accomplished so
much more that you know, the second half of his
career he was so content is the wrong word. I
guess secure is a better word that all of this was.
(30:02):
You know, he could not have been anticipated being really
one of the greatest right headed pitchers who ever lived.
And he enjoyed the fact that, as he said, I'm
playing with house money and I just saw this ease
and this contentment where you don't sweat, you know, the
bad games or the bad innings. Those are the two
guys that come to my mind. I'm wondering if there's
(30:23):
anybody in a similar vein, Joe that that you've been
around and picked up that vibe.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I'm gonna give you four names.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
As as you were describing all that, I'm going thin
slicing four names that came immediately to mind. Kyle Hendricks,
Timmy Salmon, David Eckstein, and Ben Zobrist. They all kind
of have that kind of filter that that that worldview
that you're describing. Kyle the most centered pitcher fellow person.
(30:51):
Very rarely did you ever see any kind of emotion
to the point where he just was devastating if something
didn't go well on a baseball field. Timmy Salmon got
hit in the face in the minor leagues badly and
had his job broken, and he came back from that.
David Eckstein was the most he played the game. He
was like he was like it was almost like a show,
didn't have show's ability, but eck was always playing a
(31:11):
game within the game on the field. And Ben Zebra's unique,
just a unique human being man. And when he first
came up with the rays utility kind of it was
a shortstop, then became utility, and he was truly one
of the first legitimate super utility guys. But all these
guys away from the field had a real strong sense
of family, very grounded, didn't get emotionally bent out of
(31:33):
shape if things didn't go well for them, because they
knew if they just stayed the course, it was going
to come back and get better.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And I could talk to them during the game, we'd have.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Normal conversations, they'd come back and see things, and then
we would have the give and take with that. So, yeah,
these are four guys that I really have so much
respect for, and I thought they played the game properly
and took it the right way.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
When things didn't go well.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I knew you'd have an answer, And he gave me
four names. That was more than I asked for. And
I'm unsurprised.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Great names.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I can't say I know them as well as you,
but all those I got that same feeling, Joe, So
good call there.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I can't wait to get your take on artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Joe, AI.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Let's dive into that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I brought up AI Joe, not especially as it relates
to baseball, although it is happening in the sport. You know,
you can now break down and posing pictures in terms
of their tells and how they grip a baseball. And
they do this by having analysts overlay videos and find
out what's different. So the human eyeball is being replaced
by artificial intelligence. Just remember when you hear those words
(32:53):
artificial intelligence. Remember that first word, it's artificial. And I
bring it up Joe because there was an interesting essay
in The New York Times written by Megan O'Rourke. She's
a profet serve creative writing at Yale University. Because now
all the kids in school, you know, you need to
write an essay, you get a homework assignment, what do
you do? You know, you go to AI and basically
(33:13):
have them do that for you. And it's an incredible tool.
I mean, you have access to so many resources that
you otherwise wouldn't it does, you know, really cut the
time it takes to find things. If you're looking to
do some research, but it's actually replacing the thought process
when it comes to writing, and I actually think it's
(33:36):
it's redundant to say creative writing.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Every writing is creative.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Every writing is a human expression as much as it
is your physical characteristics. So I just want to read
a couple of clips from her piece, Joe, because maybe
I'm sure you'll have a take on this as it
relates to how baseball is becoming more technical, right and
less human? She said, Our students are caught in a
relentless arms race of jockeying for the next resume item.
(34:02):
Time to read deeply or write ref reflexively is scarce.
Where once the gentlemen see sufficed. Now my students can
use AI to secure the technocrats a.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I love that phrase.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
By the way, many are going to take that option,
especially if they believe that in the jobs they're headed for,
AI will write the memos anyway. So we're training them
to rely on AI, right, So she says, for me,
as an educator, it's quite clear when someone has used
AI to craft most of their essay, when asked basic
critical questions on the paper, the ones who relied on
(34:37):
AI know very little about what they wrote. And start
bluffing in obvious ways. I'll give you the floor, Joe,
because I do think that's again a warning shot about
we've come to this precipice of convenience with a lot
of things. But convenience doesn't necessarily mean better. It's just saying,
(34:58):
don't do away with, but be careful with.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
The arts are at risk. I mean I think overall
arts or at risk.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Whether it's just creative writing, whether it's writing a play,
whether it's art itself, whether it's painting, any anything that
pertains to the arts is at risk because now you
could ask this artificial being to create, whether it's something
to write, something mural, whatever, composition, music for a group.
(35:26):
The critical thinking is no longer important. You're the reading
that you've done growing up is no longer important. None
of that matters anymore because you're not going to be
asked to utilize that, and then you you whatever that
is that send you, that part of you, that that
that the guts that you have in your in your
stomach is no longer part of this. Your life experiences
(35:47):
don't matter. The observation of looking out your window and
describing that tree or describing that golf course of that tribe.
That doesn't matter anymore because you're going to rely on
this thing to then describe for you so that you
could then attempt to benefit per sell it become famous
by it by artificial means, and that's creative for critical thinking.
(36:10):
I think goes by the white side. The arts are
at risk for me. AI what would I like it?
I want it in medicine, man, absolutely, I want I
want the best possible thought process regarding medicine, whether it's
the anti aging, whether it's cancer, whether it's Parkinson's, whatever
it might be that is really stumped us to this point.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Absolutely apply it.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I think defending your country, I mean when it comes
to defense, I mean it's going to be widespread, and
I think hopefully that it's all going to balance one
another out to the point where I don't care how
unsophisticated a place may appear to be. This is going
to make them more sophisticated quickly. So all of a sudden,
you're going to have this arms race defensively, and that's
where it could become very important. I think money, finances,
(36:51):
fall street, whatever that's going to really rely on this
even more so. And I'm not as concerned about that.
I'm concerned about the critical thinking of human beings. I'm
concerned about the arts. I mean, that's where my heart is,
that's where your heart is, and for me, that's where
the game of baseball is.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And it's going in the wrong direction.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I used to talk about, you know, the the inexact
science of scouting as a as a young scout, and
how that pertained to your experience of what you saw
and if could you actually see things and you break
things down, can you slow it down?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Can you think in the moment? Can you can.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
You rely on something that's happened to you in the
past and incorporate it right now?
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Not necessary?
Speaker 4 (37:28):
And this is even when you talk about baseball the
acceptance of artificial intelligence and what that means even further,
and I'm just going to speak from the seat that
I held. It's going to deem the manager even more use.
As I'm telling you, met sets are coming around the right,
around the corner. It's like an NFL coach whatever. Uh,
there's going to be a tremendous amount of input from
(37:50):
somebody sitting on top down below, and they're gonna think
it's okay, it's good because you know, everybody's doing it.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
We're all good.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
We're gonna have the same, uh, pretty much the same
set of information, and we're going to try to choreograph
from above and what you've done in the past, what
you've read, what you've learned, where you've been. The mistakes
you've made are pointless at this point, so the arts
are at risk. So there's some areas that I do
like it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, and I want to swing this again like you
just did, Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Bring it back to baseball, because watching the Yankees in Toronto,
you know, Aaron Boone had one of his great rants
with I believe it was mannigan Zalas, the home plate
umpire on ball strike calls, right, I mean, the umpire
gave it back to him. I mean it was pretty
cool to see, I mean literally face to face, almost
spitting on each other.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
They were that close. And that's going away. We know that.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
And I understand what Boone is doing there. I mean,
his pitching coach got wrong, so he's defending him. But
he also seen, as we talked about his team kicking
the ball around for the last month and a half.
You know, he's tired of watching it, tired of answering
for it, and that was, you know, listening, he let
off some steam. There's no question about it. It's part
of the game's tradition that's going away. As we talked
(39:01):
about Joe with the ABS, the automated ball strike system
where now you can challenge, and the more I think
about it, I like the system, but I would limit
it to maybe just one challenge per game because we
saw in the All Star game that and I know
they've done this in the minor leagues as well. When
you start getting five or six challenges, right, it becomes
(39:22):
too many. You're stopping the game down. The novelty is gone,
and you're not necessarily changing the calls that might change
the game. You're just changing a call. And I'm all about,
you know, getting it right. You don't want that basis
loaded three to two pitch that decides the game to
be miscalled.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
But listen, these umpires do a great job.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
If you look at the data, they're actually doing better
and better, especially this year where they've been told you've
got less of a buffer zone on your grading system,
and they're doing a great job. But even the best
umpires they're gonna miss five to ten calls a game.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Do I want all five to ten of those calls
to be reviewed?
Speaker 3 (39:57):
No?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
So you're saying you're giving them two, but you retain
your challenge if you're right, Well, they're going to be
right probably fifty sixty percent of the time. So now
your two becomes three to five. And if each team
is doing that, I don't want to stop the game
that many times. So again I would dip a toe
into these waters rather than going full on in. And
(40:19):
if it's just what you really have to be judicious
about it.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
It's coming.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
I understand that you're not going to stop progress. I'm
not against that, but I do think we need governors
on these technological improvements so to speak.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Yeah, it is progress, you know, I still ask myself
that question, is progress just because you're going to change
because it's available to do something like that, as it
progressive or is it necessary to do that? And I
still insist that the marriage with professional sports and betting
and gambling as part of the requirement right here, that's
why it's got to be perfect. And you just described
(40:53):
exactly why I believe it's not. It shouldn't be as important,
it's not as necessary. The ability for the manager to
go out there and really get into with an umpire
part of entertainment, part of the ability to defend your brood.
Also the potential to motivate. All these things are part
of the entertainment value of our game. It's going to
become very staid. It's going to be so predictable. The
(41:17):
emotion is going to be subtracted.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Right now.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
You get you know, you got the guys that accused
them that running cards, You got bat flips. I just
read about something happened in New Jersey. I think it
was where a kid got suspended for a bat flip
in a game because with something, you know, inappropriate behavior.
Even though they had this, this organization had sent out
videos on social media about kids flipping bats. They're going
to do exactly with the major league I did. I
(41:41):
did exactly what major league players. I used to stand
like Orlando Cupaida, you wear your socks that way. And
if I could have grown an afro like Oscar Gamble,
I would have. You know, there's always going to be
that replication, So be careful with what we're doing right here.
So again, my concern, my problem with a lot of
it is I think this so called progress is the
result of the over arching, overbearing, the this, this we're
(42:05):
arriving at this point where everything's got to be gambled
upon and with that, and it's so easy to gamble
upon it, and the fact that I still believe something
bad is gonna happen because of this. I mean like
somebody's gonna get injured off the field because of all this.
So I they're all interconnected. So I want to hear
the word progress, hear the word progressive just because you
have something, a different idea or something you're now able
(42:26):
to do it that you weren't able to do before.
Not necessarily what you need, and I don't think it
absolutely needed.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
In the sport, we.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Are all gunning for the technocrats. A I love that.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
That really nails it.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Speaking of nailing it, you do it every time on
the Book of Joe podcast Joe, What do you got
to bring us home?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Today?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah? I know again we're here.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
You know, I was thinking about the trade deadline and
the five hundred teams with the slightly below five hundred teams,
and you know, their their face with what they want
to do right here was it years ago as the
White Sox were actually like even in a better position
in a race.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
The famous white flag trade right right where they were
a couple of two three games out and decided we're
going to make a big deal.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
Right, I mean, had that was like that was a
real baseball guy's working back. But it's about flexibility, adaptation,
That's what I thought. And this one is I can't
even know that this elude deniche obiiro is the name, and.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
I have to look that up.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
But it adaptation is not surrender, but the art of
thriving in the face of the inevitable. So, okay, what
is the inevitable right here? To me, it would be
if you're in a position like say the Angels or
any of the teams that are slightly below five hundred,
especially in this race, the inevitable would be that you're
probably not going to make this and so how do
I make myself better in the future. The adaptation it's
(43:43):
not a surrender, but the art of thriving in the
face of the inevitable. I thought that was really exactly
what's going on right now. You have to make that
determination as a group, I would be very difficult for
me as a manager to want my group to just
concede right now. Even if I were the Angels a
couple games under five hundred, it'd be difficult for me
to just concede at this point. You said earlier, you
(44:03):
have to consider all these teams above you, the've actually
been playing over five hundred most of the time, and
to think that you've been under five hundred most of
the time, all of a sudden, you're going to become
somebody different. That's really difficult to assume that's going to occur.
Adaptation and flexibility is important, but also being realistic and
(44:23):
really understanding and sometimes you just got hit punt for
the coffin corner for now, and the hopes that you're
going to be better the next several years.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Oh great, Joe, And let me add something to that too,
because I think this is part of what we do
in the media. We oversimplify things that everybody's either a
buyer or a seller. You know, baseball is not that
binary when it comes to team building, right, So a
team like the Angels with diamondbacks, they can make a
trade that is not necessarily waving the white flag to
(44:52):
borrow the White Sox term, but makes them better going forward.
If you don't think there's a chance you're going to
re sign these free agents to be and you need, say,
controllable pitcher for the next couple of years for a
Zach Gallen or Merrill Kelly, well you can do that
and it's not necessarily giving up on your season. I
mean that there is a lot of room between completely
(45:13):
buying and completely selling. No better case than Detroit last
year where they traded Jack Flaherty. They wound up with
Tray Sweeney, the shortstop from the Dodgers. They re signed Floherty. Actually,
did they think they were going out a run, Probably not,
but it was a deal that made sense for a
free agent to be and there they were back in
the postseason anyway. So I think we have to have
(45:34):
a slightly more sophisticated vision of what the trade deadline is.
It's the last chance for teams to get better in
the twenty twenty five season. You're not going to add
anybody after the date of value anyway. But it's also
a chance to start working on your team the next
year as well, with kind of you know, splitting the
responsibilities to hear and now and next year's team. It's
(45:57):
not necessarily either or so keep an eye on that
as we get to the deadline.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yeah, the problem is that once in a while, an
outlier will jump and all of a sudden they make
this nice run, like you know the Diamondbacks did a
couple of years ago, and like you suggested with Detroit.
So everybody sees themselves as being that that particular team.
But even going back, I'm staying on the Angel thing
when they didn't trade oh Tani coming down to the end,
and I always thought, and I do, I believe that
once a Tawny was gone, they should have traded to
(46:22):
Trot at that point to really try to benefit from
what they had right there, and they probably would.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Be even further along right now.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
So you have to be pragmatic, be honest about your evaluation.
This is where like really steady heads and minds, and
this is where you have to really not be egotistical
about it whatsoever and just try to understand what is
our vision right here, what are we trying to do,
and what is possible.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
And again last point.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
If you have been playing at below five hundred to
this point and to the season, and other teams have
been above it. It's really not wise to believe you're
gonna be able to turn a switch right now and
all of a sudden become a team that you are not.
I think that's what people are banking on, and it
really does not that way.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
It's the one time of year besides the postseason when
baseball becomes extremely urgent, the last week before the trade deadline.
Everybody's on the clock right now, and to me, no
team on the clock more than the New York Yankees.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
We'll see what they do.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Cool Man.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Perfect, All right, Joe, We'll see you next time, and
maybe has some trades to talk about.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Perfect Tommy, Thanks Buddy.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
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