October 7, 2025 • 46 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci start with the Dodgers' 2-0 lead over the Phillies. This hasn't been about what Philly isn't doing, we're just seeing the Dodgers play up to their potential. The Cubs could be in trouble as the Brewers are rolling. Onto the AL, the Blue Jays' bats have come alive against the Yankees. Tom has a front row seat for the Tigers and Mariners, as the only series that sits tied at 1-1. We look at the pitching so far in the postseason and how scientific the teaching has become.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aron, Welcome back to the latest edition and playoff
edition of the Book of Joe with Me, Tom Berducci
and Joe Madden. Joe, I happened to be on the
(00:25):
only series so far that it's been even at one
one after two games. You have three series up two
to nothing. Let me start, because I think it's been
the most interesting series.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Dodgers at the Philadelphia Phillies.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I thought going in, Joe, this would be the World Series.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I really think the World Series would come out of
this series.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's been competitive, but I know Phillies fans are not
gonna be happy losing the first two at home.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
They should not be.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But Joe, I look at the Dodger team right now,
and this is the Dodger team that we expected. This
is the starting pitching that we expected when the year
went on, when it started, and they're firing on all
cylinders right now. So I don't think it's so much
everything the Phillies have done wrong as much as right
now the Dodgers look like that juggernaut we thought they
(01:10):
were going to be.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Blake Snell was just awesome in game number two.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, they turned the switch on, didn't they.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We're having a supposed to happen, Joe, but they can't.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Right, So the Jimmy Edmunds switch.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
I told you that story in the past, but I'm
telling you certain groups have it. Not that they were
bored all year, but they're into it. They're professionals. I
love the way they go about their business. However, when
they really had to, there came full volume all the way,
all the way to like one hundred on the dial.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
They're doing that, and you're right.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
I mean, for me, it's the pitching again. You saw
at the end of the game though, trying and I'm
still concerned. I don't even know how they're going to
use it moving forward. They got through that last inning. However,
their starters are major league starters. They're major league starting pitchers.
They get you deep in the game they can if
they're permitted, and they're good. They're really good, and so
they are clicking. Talked about this with you prior to this.
(02:02):
Mookie Bets turning out to be a better short stuff
than I thought he could be. A given credit there
and again we talked about this briefly. But the play
by Munsey to him at third base. Castianos must not
have gotten a good secondary lead right there, and Nick
he's not the fastest, but that's a good buck and
we could talk about this further. I just didn't know
if he would if you had Bunch Stott during the
regular season.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
That's fine if you would not.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I know he is left on left whatever, But those
are the kind of plays that's where I would second
guess myself as a manager if I conceded to do
something playoff worthy as opposed to regular season worthy, just
because because Nicki is not a good runner.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
But nevertheless, great play by Munsey and Bets.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, let's talk about that play, Joe, because there's at
so many levels. That was one of the best defensive
postseason plays that I can remember. I'm sure others will
come to mind individual spectacular plays. I remember Devon White
playing for Toronto make an incredible catch in the World Series,
the way he did a lot of times. But this
was teamwork to the nth degree. So let's rewind. Because
(03:01):
there's a pitching change on the mound, as you mentioned,
and they brought in the lefty. Scott is going to hit.
I have no problem with bunting right there. Castianos is
at second base. But during the pitching change with Alex
VESSI had coming in Mookie Betts while the players are
on the mound, decides they're going to run the wheel
play where the shortstop covers third third basement charges. You
don't see major league teams do this very often. Well,
(03:23):
first of all, you don't see teams bunt very often.
Ever since the pitchers stopped hitting. There's not a lot
of attention paid to bunt defense. And in fact, that
Dodgers had run the wheel play once this year, back
in August. They ran it against the Angels, they worked
out in spring training, nothing in between. So here is Mookie,
And to me, Mookie is the kind of player like
in basketball, I want the ball in his hands and football,
(03:45):
you know, he's the quarterback. I want him making decisions.
And I love the fact that you mentioned this, Joe.
He's played a really good shortstop, the fact that he
decides at that point he's going to run the wheel
play on the phillies.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And he sold the play so well.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Of course, as you know, Joe, if the batter sees
the shortstop is vacating, taken off towards third and the
second basement is taking off the cover first.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Slash the ball up the middle.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The whole middle of the field is open, right, but
Mooky waited so long. I mean, if you watch it,
Vessia is practically releasing the baseball by the time Moki
takes his first step. I don't think Stott had time
to read Mooki vacating because he did not vacate early.
Castianos actually had a pretty good secondary lead. Now Mooki's
a lot faster. Mooky clearly beat him to third base.
(04:32):
It was not a terrible secondary lead. I think he's
just lack of speed trying to get the third base.
To me, this is all about Mooky Betts. The way
he put the play on sold the play out, ran
Castianos to third base, makes this catch on the fly,
and then the tag and Munci, you're right, made great play.
If you watch his footwork there, it's like a shortstop
taking your relay from the outfield.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
His footwork was spectacular.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
The way he opened up and threw a strike to
third base couldn't couldn't have executed any better. Give the
Dodgers credit, Give the Mooki Bets credit. Again, I look
at the Philly Phillies fans are going to shake their head,
why are we bunting Castianos? This dot that they did
everything right. The Dodgers just did everything perfectly.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, and you're right, I didn't get to see the overhead.
The wheel play used to be way more popular back
in the day.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
He'd run all the bunt.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Plays nauseums during spring training and then during the course
of the season, especially like you said, National League, I'd
have our guys, we would do it intermittently.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Come bring everybody out. Just sachet through the.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Plays a little bit, just remind everybody when they're supposed
to be definitely at the halfway point. But without bunting,
without pitchers hitting, it's become obviously less of an issue.
So the fact that they actually thought of it, because
you can doesn't have to be runners on first and second.
That situation there with runner on second base only and
the runner was perfect for the Dodgers. Castianos is the
perfect foil right there for the Dodgers because he doesn't
(05:52):
run well.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And I can't.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I don't remember really being extraordinary taking secondary leads either.
So all the everything the perfect storm for the Dodgers
right there, and then they recognized it. It's one thing
to have the perfect storm, but you have to reconize
that it is, and then you have to go ahead
and execute, which they did do. And I'd love to
see the overhead exactly what MOOKI did. You described it
really well and again I just saw months He's just
charging down that line like this was the only thing
(06:15):
on his mind, and he did right. The footwork was spectacular,
filled it off to his side, he opened up right
to the throw. All that stuff was perfect. So, I mean,
this is the kind of stuff I want kids to watch.
This is what this is what you need to talk about.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Highlight.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
This is fundamental baseball and it's best. That's what won
the game. They the fact that they were able to
complete that play pretty much put them in position afterwards
to win that game. And give him credit. Man, I
loved all. I loved everything about that play. Kudos to
the Dodgers.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, I listen.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We talked about Blake Snell and he's been great now
down the stretch September into October.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Here at no surprise, he went out there, pitched to Jim.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
The game before it show Hey, Otani out there he
goes six innings, he looked great, got the win when
Tascar Hernandez at the three run homer. You know, right now,
as you mentioned Joe, they're just flying on all cylinders.
I mean, Yamamoto's been great down the stretch. You got
Tyler Glassanaw in the bullpen. I'm with you on Tryn
and I still don't trust him at this point. I
think after Game two, Dave Roberts is going to have
(07:13):
to move him back in the circle of trust. And
Roki Sasaki, I mean, give again the Dodgers' credit. They
put this guy in the bullpen last week of the
season in Triple A.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Let's give it a shot.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And he gets to the big leagues and it's like,
let's give him a little more leverage. And in the
span of two weeks, this guy's gone from a starting
pitcher to a closer in the postseason. He's the first
pitcher ever with his first two saves in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And he doesn't look scared that. I know. People say, wow,
he doesn't throw enough strikes to close the game.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, yeah, he does. His stuff is playing up and simplify,
it's just all fastball split. The split is one of
the nastiest pitches in the game. To me, Joe, he
looks comfortable out there. You know, if the Dodgers are
going to get six innings from their starting pitchers, they're
not gonna get beat. And I said this before the
year started. If the Dodgers ever got to October with
even three of their top four starting pitchers healthy, no
(08:04):
one's going to beat them.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And I still feel the same way.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Well, I know Andrew probably saw David Price in Sasaki.
I mean, it's had to be part of the conversation.
When David ascended for us in two thousand and eight,
he had started a little bit, really was not a
relief pitcher, but we brought him out of the pen
in the playoffs and he threw the you know, the
last inning of the third I think it was against
the Red Sox in Game seven at the Trup round
ball the hockey we're going to the series. So I
(08:27):
think there's some similarities there also with command, control and command.
I mean, a guy with an arm like Sasaki and
even sawt with what's the kid from Milwaukee the last
name miss miss Misserowski.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Thank you. I'm Polish. I shouldn't know anyway.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I mean, if you could miss bats contact is minimal,
they'll accept the walk. I mean analytically, they'll accept the walk.
When I had Maddy Moore with the again with the Rays,
Maddy mow great art, great stuff, miss bats, but would
walk people and put you like kind of a hole,
but always was able to pitch out of it.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We contact miss Bat.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
So when you look at guys like Sasaki, David Price
in the past, Maddymore, Miss Rowski, all these dudes, great stuff,
not a lot of hard contact, a lot of swing,
and miss I think you're more benevolent regarding accepting the
base on balls in these situations. Of course, contact guys.
You really can't accept that from because the balls in
(09:24):
play too often and bad things could happen. So I
think that's part of the analytical framework, is that if
you throw hard enough and miss Bat's enough elicit, we
contact enough, we accept walks.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and I know Philly is not feeling good, especially
down to games to the Dodgers, but and they'll be
if they don't get through this series. A lot of
talk about you know, the quote unquote window.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
For this team, which I always hate hearing. You know,
teams a Bob all the time. Rosters never are static.
But anyway, I look at the Phillies, I really think
you gotta be careful that people don't look at the
Phillies like they're a worse team than they've shown, because
the Dodgers, to me, are that good right now.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They just running.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
They're running up against a team playing peak form. Yeah,
there's some issues with the Phillies. I mean, right now,
Schwarber is not hitting at all. It's just a lefty
dependent lineup that you can pitch too. There are some strikeouts,
there is some chase in there. But that team being said,
this is a really good team. To me, I think
it's going to cause a lot of soul searching. But
I think you look on the other side and say,
(10:23):
the Dodgers right now are that good?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Agreed?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I mean, it really does come down to the fact
that Schwarbs is having a hard time. I mean, Harper's
is still okay right now too. They're just not pumping
on all cylinders like they did during the regular season. Offensively,
if Shwarps could get off the snide, they're a little
bit put the ball over a wall, and the same
thing with Harper. They just need those two guys to
be who they are as much as anything. I mean,
(10:45):
I love Turner as a leadoff hitter. As a baseball player,
I'm a big, big fan of his. Amy Stott is
a grinder, all that kind of good stuff that they do.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Real mudo.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
They have this gritty group of baseball players that I
really like. I like them a lot, and I like
they're pitching. I like Sanchez, like Suarez, I like all
these dudes that they have there. They just you're right,
they're catching the wrong team at the wrong time right now,
and they're gonna they're gonna have to overcome somehow. I mean,
this is it's not impossible. The Dodgers just beat them
(11:14):
twice in Philly. The Phillies could return the favorite in
Los Angeles very easily, It's no question.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
But I think it has to come from the big boys.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Then what the big boys do, and if they don't,
it's going to be impossible I think for the Phillies
to dig themselves out of this hole.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Speaking of holes, let's talk about where the Chicago Cubs
are at, down two games to Milwaukee Brewers, who have
just boat raced them in two games.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I mean both times Chicago takes the lead.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
There was a dagger of a three year at homer
by Vaughan Andrew Vaughn in the bottom of the first
inning after Chicago goes up three to nothing at the
top of the first. That was just just a huge
swing right there. Give me your take on the Cubs
right here. I thought they were in trouble as soon
as we heard that Kate Horton. Their best picture was
not in play with the rib injury. IM and Naga,
I've said it all long, down the stretch, He's just
(11:58):
a home run waiting to happen, and sure enough that
played out in that key spot.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
With Vaughan and then another one.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Actually, I don't see the Cubs coming back in the series, Joe.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean, listen, they're going back to Wrigley. We know
anything that happen.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
But where's it gonna start with the Cubs in terms
of how they can shut the Brewers down?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Because right now the Brewers are rolling.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
We know they're a good offensive team. We didn't know
they were gonna hit home runs the way they did
in Game two. They're gonna do that. They're gonna be unbeatable.
What are the chances the Cubs get back in the series. Joe,
it's not likely. And I'm my main reason for that
is they're pitching. Like you're talking about the starting pitching.
Is Italian going to pitch the next start? Is he
up next?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I mean, you got Colin Ray and Ty One again,
Craig Counsel.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
He's gonna mix a match and get guys out quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But to me, I just don't see a guy out
there who's going to And I think you need to
do this once in a while in the postseason, Joe,
take the ball to this through the sixth inning.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I mean, you just can't mix a messes all the time.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Tell me. I agree, But that's the point.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
I just don't know that they have the arm or
arms to come back from a two zero deficit. I
think they'll hit more, although the Brewers are in pretty
good shape pitching wise right now too. They were able
to get through the yesterday's game with the bullpen usage
like they did, so it's gonna be It's very unlikely.
And then basically this primarily on the advantage of the
(13:14):
Brewers I think have over the Cubs on the mound.
You know, the team's on the field. I mean, the
Cubs are very capable of just blowing it up offensively.
They're just gonna have to get their guys going too. Overall,
but the unlikely component for me, just to sum it up,
is the fact that I don't think the Cubs starting
pitching or pitching in general, is good enough to win
three in a row versus the Brewers.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Right now, and let's talk about like the perfect Pat
Murphy ploy in that game, as a perfect Brewers ploy
to have Quinn Priester going through his entire warm up
before the game as a decoy that he's going to
be the bulk guy.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Behind Ashby, the left handed starter.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I don't know if this matter to the Chicago Cubs,
but they did have Quinn Priester go through his entire
routine to make them think that he was going to
be the next guy in of course he wasn't. And
Priester now is lined up.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And could pitch in Game number three, And he actually
threw his full bullpen after the game at eleven thirty
at night. He said he'd never thrown a bullpen that
late before. That's such a Murph thing to do, It's
such a Brewers thing to do where the players just
totally buy into it. Nobody's gonna say why are we
doing this? Or I can't believe I'm doing this. They
just say, Okay, I'll do it. I don't think it
had any effect on the game, Joe, but I love
(14:26):
the fact that Murph things out of the box, and
most especially that his players go along with whatever he suggests.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
So, okay, he had a full bullpen yesterday. He gets
up and does the whole thing and throws at the
end of the game. They have today off, correct, Yes,
so it almost sounds like he's not going to pitch
the next game, but the game after.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That for Yeah, I'm not sure who he's got lined
up for three, but he could pitch mem in four.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
You never know what the Brewers. It's like they're almost
interchangeable parts.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Yeah, that's the thing. So is prol to have enough
rest to come back on Thursday? I think he does
one two. Yeah, So that's what they may be doing
right there, and then push Priester back to the to
the Friday game if possible, or is a Thursday game.
Excuse me, that might be what they're gonna end up doing.
They just want to get it over with, get Parlta
(15:15):
out there, get it over with, and then really get
their risk going to the next round. Because I'm just saying,
if you had a full bullpen yesterday and almost like
you need two days before you're going to actually start
in the game as opposed to day off and then start.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
So if you through that much, it's just hard.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Unless that's his regular routine and I don't know that,
but to pitch with a day off and then pitch
start unlikely. It almost sounds like they're going to go
with Peralta in the next game and then keep Priester
for the one after that.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But if you're Craig Counsel and you see Priest going
through this before the game, like okay, that's the next
guy in, doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I don't think it matters.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
No, no, no, no, I'm I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
The charade of this is just to me as humorous
more than anything.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Well, that's a very I mean, if in fact it
was Murch's idea, that's very collegiate. I mean, back in
the day, Jim Brock would have done something like that
at ASU and a heartbeat. All the history onics with
guys or warming up where somebody can't see you. They'd
have pictures warm up, understand, so you didn't know the
guy was warming up. That was part of the past
two It's just difficult to hide from cameras today. Yeah,
if in fact that was part of it, it probably
(16:18):
was a little bit of a fun thing for the
Brewers to do because they knew that they weren't going
to use him yesterday and that they already had this
all mapped out. Obviously they did, so not a big deal.
It didn't really impact the Cubs at all. If somebody
makes that argument, I disagree.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Well, right now we are on course for another Brewers, Dodgers,
and LCS. We saw that I think it was back
in twenty nineteen. It was a great series that would
be pretty cool. Not over yet, but commanding leads so
far for both the Dodgers and the Brewers.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
How about the American League.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
We'll dive into that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Welcome back to the Book of Joke podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I'm sure you caught a bunch of the Yankees and
the Blue Jays in Toronto.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It's just been amazing to me the way Toronto has
hit the baseball.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
It actually brought me back. I'm curious to see.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
If you thought this, Joe, when you played the Yankees
as one of the Angels coaches in two thousand and two,
where it seemed like the hitters were just on everything,
did that.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Occur to you, Yeah, swarming offense.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
I saw the swim. I saw that with them, and
I see it with the Brewers too. I thought that
the other night watching the first game against the Cubs,
when the Brewers just dismantled them just by moving the
ball constantly. And then the Blue Jays have got a
little bit of that DNA right now. Also we used
to I mean I was listening to the one game
because I was driving back from Philly.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
But bat around the bat. They hit around the batting
older hit around.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And I know if you look back with the two
thousand and two Angels, my god, do we do that often?
And that's just moving the ball. I can't even tell
you that we accepted our walks. Is our guys just
like to swing the bat. We didn't strike out a lot,
we moved the baseball.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
So yes, I thought about both teams.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I thought about the Brewers doing that also, and it
is It's very interesting the way the Blue Jays are
finally kind of achieving at the level you thought they
could potentially achieve that for a while, and they're doing it.
They're playing a complete game. They're playing a complete game.
Their defense has gotten better, everything's gotten better. They're just
more baseball efficient than I've seen.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
In the past.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, a lot of that's been happening at home. They
definitely have a mojo working in their home ballpark. The
ballpark definitely plays to what they do well.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
They put the ball in play.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I mean they strike out the least percentage wise in
the major leagues.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
That turf is hard. You put on the ground, it's
going to get through.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
And my goodness, they're hitting home runs one handed at
ninety three miles exit velocity.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean, what is going on?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I saw that.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I was That's that reminded me of playing in Boulder, Colorado.
I don't know, I mean, just and the air is
not I mean, that's sea level up there.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, that's how good it's been going for Toronto. And
then of course you've got Trey ya Savage, the young
pitcher there. I mean, what a fine I mean, this
guy was drafted last year twenty twenty four and he's
got such a unique angle and everything he throws is unique. Right,
He's straight over the top, tall guy to begin with.
The ball's coming out of the sky, and he's got
a split which is absolutely nasty.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And he actually has a slider.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Which I've never heard of, Joe, which actually has screwball
action to it.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It actually works back at the armside, not to a.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Backup slider, the backup sider. Everybody's been wanting to do
that for years.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So if you're the Yankees, if you're anybody, and you're
facing this kid, and obviously you haven't seen him before,
and you've got to solve him in a postseason game,
getting essentially two looks at him, maybe a third look,
that's a tough task.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
And the Yankees were not up to it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean, I thought all along of this kid was
going to get the ball once I saw him pitch.
You go with stuff more than experience. You know, Schuzer basket.
These guys get great to have. But when I see
a guy throw like that, Joe, I gotta trust the stuff,
and I'm sure they know the makeup as well.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
We're in a big spot.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You know he's going to be fine, just the way
the Yankees did with Cam Schlitzler elimination game against the
Red Sox. Trust the stuff experience, Yeah, I love it,
but I want the stuff and this kid's got it.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Well.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
I was going off of your scouting experience because you
were really talking him up from the last time you
saw him, and I had not seen him yet. Wow,
I watched. I rewatched the video because I wanted to
see all that. It's all of that.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Plus he's from Pottsdown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
How about that right down the street on top of
his savage he's you know, the some kind of a
European name. Jim Bouten was what I thought of. I
thought of Jim Bowten, the way he came over the top.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Bountain's hat would fly off.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Buntain didn't have that kind of a split, but that
kind of high energy delivery from over the top. And
then I had a guy we've talked about, Jeff Neeman six'.
Nine and then you can think Of Chris young THE
gm now with The. Rangers this high downward angle. Stuff,
see for, Me i've always talked to guys AND i
always even said in postgame press, conferences down angle equals.
(20:50):
Movement to, me if you could just imagine when when
the ball is coming from such a high angle down
the point of intersection for the bat and the ball
BECOMES i, think more. Difficult it's just it's not, flat
it's it's directly down and you're again with the upmore
of the. UPSWING i think that there's a chance with,
that but it's still more difficult to really.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Pinpoint and then.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
On top of, that the split, WELL i, mean, LISTEN
i don't know that was a real. SPLIT i don't
know what he's calling that, thing but that was almost
like Watching Brian, harvey And harve had a pretty high delivery,
also And Johnny, orton we'll be blocking that stuff in the.
DIRT i don't know how long he's been throwing. THAT
i think it's a tremendous. Pitch my only concern always
was with that pitch and there's nothing behind your fingers
(21:31):
are off to the side of the. Ball, YEAH i
just always had an uncomfortable feeling with guys hurting their.
Arms and somebody might argue against, that but it was
my experience in the minor. Leagues but right, now that
pitch is one of the best in the. Game right,
now that pitch is unhittable and lefties have no. CHANCE i,
mean the left of that ball goes down and fades.
Away then he just has to pop an elevated, fastball
(21:53):
and he's pretty much in controlling. Command on top of,
that he suggested the guy's. Makeup heard him speak. Afterwards
pretty confident young, Man very confident young. Man he's got
it going on right. Now we'll see what happens, if in,
fact somebody pins his ears back a little. Bit but,
THANG i mean the way he's, feeling the way he's,
throwing the combination of, pitches the angle, itself nobody sees.
(22:13):
That nobody really encourages that high. Angle the angle has
been primarily more like. Dropped everybody wants to drop the
arm slot to elevate the, ball and this one's getting
the arm up to get the ball.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Down.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, great, points you're, right And i've checked.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
This the average release point for a major league pitcher
has gone down and like every year for the last
four or five, years and people love that, upshoot so to.
Speak the attack, angle the low release, point velocity to
the high point of the strike. Zone there's been a
lot of emphasis on, that so kind of old school
over the, top you, Know Jim, palmer deliveries have kind
(22:49):
of faded, away, Right how many times did a pitching
coach used to, say get on top of the, ball
get on top of the.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
BALL i don't really teach that.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
ANYMORE i actually think getting on top of the ball
like that is actually a little more stressful on the.
ARM i always tell, people just take a ten pound
weight or a five pound, weight hold it straight over your,
head but now hold it off to the side where
your elbow's bent a little.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Bit which one's.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Easier it's a lot easier off to the side with
your elbow ben a little bit straight over the, top
the Way Michael waka was early on in his.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Career it can be. Rough but you make a great, Point,
joe that because you see fewer of, those the deception
is even greater now than it would have been ten
years ago because it is so.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Unusual, LISTEN i don't know what happens when he or
if he does get, hit BUT i look around, Also,
joe AND i see it's almost Like Roger craig in
the nineteen. Eighties the split is coming. BACK i, mean
whether it's asak at his. Split you're going to See
Logan gilbert In Alds game three For, seattle probably the
nastiest split in all of, baseball which is saying something
(23:48):
we've seen that Splits finnegan And montero in The tigers.
Bullpen Aj hinch wants to keep throwing splits At rodriguez
and Cal rawley The. Mariners the split is. BACK i,
mean it's become a weapon in the game. Too i'm
not sure why that. Is maybe it's, analytics maybe it's.
TECHNOLOGY i know that guys that don't throw a change
up well a lot of times will try the, split
(24:09):
and we're seeing a lot more splits at Least i'm
noticing that in the.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Postseason, Yeah i've always that was part of the gig
too of the.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Landscape when a pitcher cannot throw more of a conventional
kind of off speed, pitch you would always try to
do give them a different, grip try something new or.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Different and, AGAIN i could name.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
A pitcher, GOSH i can't name him right, now but
as a young man out of A, Nacadosius texas right
hander THAT i had in a ball with The angels
and great, arm like mid nineties. Arm but it wanted
to throw a split so much as a youngster that
eventually he loses fastball the veteran player on the other,
end LIKE i just, suggested once you are at that
waterloo moment where you have to be creative and come
(24:46):
up with something, else that's where a SPLIT i think
needs to be introduced or should be introduced if you
cannot really do the conventional other break the. BALL i,
love change of. Curveball that's to my two favorite other.
Pitches and then if it needs to become the, slider
cut or whatever you got to do, THAT i just
maybe throw a strike on occasion BECAUSE i can't command
these other.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Things but if you can't.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Don't have the propensity or the ability to throw the
have your arm and wrist work in a way that
you could spin the, baseball curve it or the. Field
the grip of the change up just doesn't make any.
Sense then you just split the fingers and throw it
as hard as you can pretty, much and just let
the natural reaction of the ball coming out tumbly out
of your hand be that pitch for.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
You so, again.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
When you run out of options and you've tried everything
else with a young pitcher in an attempt to give
him something other than a fastball because the other stuff
just doesn't form up for.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Him that's WHEN i THINK i would add these other.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Pitches, however last, point when you come out OF asu
Or mesa community college wherever it might, be the first
THING i wanted to be checked on with in the
rookie ball would be does he have a change? Up
and if he doesn't have a change, up just try
to give him a change up grip and.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Let him just work on throwing a change.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Up if he doesn't have a, curveball just give him
like a curveball thing, grip some instruction on the, side
and he doesn't have to bring it into the aim.
Yet but just introduce him to, this because we're always
very aware of young guys coming into an your. Organization
let him, pitch let him, play let, him let him
show what he's what he's got based on what the
scout had, seen and at the point where he starts
(26:17):
to meet, failure that's when you introduce. Things, HOWEVER i
just always thought it'd be wise if he doesn't throw
a change of give him a grip to play with.
Her just have him understand, it and if he can't
spin a ball just even on the sidelines practice soft.
Blackground just show him how to start spinning, it because
at some, point if you do meet that waterloo, moment
you have to go to something.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Else i'm glad you brought that up BECAUSE i had
a conversation With Chris, fetter The tiger's pitching, coach about.
This it's fascinating to me how how much the game
changed once they were able to track how a baseball
spins and the path the ball. Takes you, know the
high speed, cameras track, man rep, sodos all those. THINGS i, Think,
joe we talked about right handed and left handed. Pitchers
(26:57):
right and there are some guys who pronate well and
some guys are. Supernaters they basically fall into either categor to,
generalize and you, know for the guys who don't really
pronate the wrist, well it's a hard. Time it's hard
for them to throw a change. Up you, know the
guys who are real big souperinninaterors hard for them to
throw a change.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Up.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Well in the, past you kind of forced it on the,
guy like you, said try to work with a.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Grip the hand just doesn't work that.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Way now we know that guys who don't pronate, well
there are ways to throw a change up now that
what they call this seam shifted. Wake essentially it's a
two seam change. Up And Trek scoobo is one of those.
Guys his career took off.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
When he stopped trying to throw a traditional change.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Up and what they do is that it'll take a
baseball and they put a black dot on the side
of the, baseball kind of near the, horseshoe and when
he releases the, ball he wants to see that.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Dot stay right. There no, wobble you, know just stay in.
Line he told.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Me he equates it to if you're putting and you
put a line on your ball and you can see
the end over end. Spin you don't want, wobble you
don't certainly want side to. Side you just want to
see that good north south rotation on your golf ball
as you put it.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Cleanly same the idea with.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
HIM i think it's fascinating to, Me joe that, guys
now you know you can find a, grip you can
find a pitch path with the help of, technology whereas
ten twenty years ago that was not even. Possible your
coaches were struggling to find ways to get guys to
get to dead in a Baseball, well.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah And i'm going to take that a step further
because you're talking about. GRIP i was always fascinated by
good curveballs coming, up you, know as a young, scout
as a young. Instructor WHEN i saw a good breaking,
ball good curveball, Especially i'd asked the pitcher to show
me his, grip and like if You Bert blyleve And bert.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
HAD i, mean the BEST i Think i've.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
SEEN i mean in regards to shape break whatever, spin
he could hear, it but he put his thumb up
on the. Side Even Mike, butcher one of my pitching,
Coaches butch coming, up had a really really good. Curveball
so but showed me your grip thumb on the side
and not not necessarily tucked. Underneath SO i would always
look at grips WHEN i saw a really.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Good, PITCH i tell, you show me your.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Grip and my Point i'm trying to make is that
a lot of times the grip with something really good
would be some kind of something slightly, unconventional not the
spalding guide. Grip it's even like you take it to
the offensive side of. Things hitters the way they start their.
Stance whether you know we talk About Craig council being a,
manager now how he used to have the bad above
is said almost Like yescreemsky, did or Where Julio franco
(29:26):
used to bring it almost the tip of the batpointed
at the, picture you could go up and, Down Joe
demagio really spread, out Or Paul maltar without any movement.
Whatsoever the thing about all these guys THAT, i as
a hitting, coach would emphasize or look at a good
dude to like a, video at all the point at
which they can make, contact they would all look the.
Same and that would say you have to be able
(29:46):
to get there with at least an average velocity fastball
to get to look like this at the point of,
contact regardless of where you start. From so the same
thing with a picture with an unconventional grip or a different.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Grip if you took a.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Slow motion or a freeze action picture of all these
good dudes at the point of, release a lot of
them are going to look almost exactly the. Same hitters
will look almost exactly the, same regardless of how they
began this whole journey to get to that. Point so
this was SOMETHING i always non conventional batting, stances non
conventional grips on. Pitches Bob boone the, way it was
one of the first news to sit on the ground
(30:18):
with his butt to receive the low. PITCH a lot
of greatness is involved in non convention where guys did
things a little bit differently that was comfortable to, them
but that's how their body. Worked so, anyway long answer
maybe not totally, relevant but it just made reminded me
of That I've i've always wanted to know WHEN i saw,
greatness show me how you're doing, this because most of
(30:39):
the time it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
TYPICAL i think the average van would be amazed at
the kind of brain power that's in a major league
clubhouse these.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Days you, know WHEN i was talking To Chris, fetder
he showed me this little.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Device you KNOW i mentioned marking your golf, ball, right you,
know they have these plastic little forms right where you
can just use your sharpie and put it inside the
track of where you want the line to. Go, well
they have these forms that they lock around a baseball
and they can draw this black dot AS i, mentioned
but the dot is actually different for each picture depending
on how they grip the. Baseball so it was actually
(31:12):
somebody in their run prevention department that went to a
THREE d printer and made these on their.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Own it's just amazing how, technical.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
How precise things are these, days and trying to get
the ball to move the way that they wanted to.
Move it's just you'd be amazed at how scientific things have.
Gotten by the, Way, joe we didn't talk enough of.
ONE i want to get your take on The. YANKEES
i can't say The yankees are out of this series.
Yet they're just too. Talented and for, Me toronto is
a very different team on the road than they are at.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Home but tell me what you've.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
SEEN i was shocked At Max freed through a clunker
in a big spot like that the way that he.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Did Maybe toronto is just that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Hot but tell me what you saw out out Of
New york and what their chances are going.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Forward, well it's.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
JUDGE i, mean those, guys we've talked about.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
It they got hit home runs to, win and they've
not been able to hit home runs at this particular,
JUNCTUIRT i mean that's still who they, are that is their,
yeah free the clutter with him was, Surprising although then
you're pitching against you, savage who's all of a sudden
like my, god who's better than him right?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Now so they've been matched up.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Well on the mound to the point where all of a,
sudden or not all of a. SUDDEN i, mean The
Blue jays have some pop, too but their offense has been,
steady where the The yankees has not been so, steady
and the ball over the wall has to. Happen if
The yankees are going to mount to comeback right, now
that's their. Game They're they're not going to all of
a sudden shift gears and move the baseball except their,
(32:35):
walks move, runners steel, bases although they, can but that's
not what they're trying to. Do they're trying to bludge in.
You so they have to bludge in you pitching, wise
they have to bludge in you, offensively And i'd say primarily.
Offensively because of, that the ball doesn't start going over the.
Wall If judge continues to have these you, know singles at,
bats driving run once in a, while but really not
looking like himself at the, plate that's the big difference for.
(32:57):
Me once if he were to just turn it, on
the rest of the guys will start feeding off.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
That but it really does revolve. HIM i believe.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Agreed with that. Assessment we talk about it all the.
Time that's the way The yankees win. Games it's no.
DIFFERENT i thought they would get to The toronto bullpen
with their, power but they're losing the first half of the,
game so they've got to get a good start From
rodn In game.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Three, hey let's take a quick.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
BREAK i am at the series between The mariners and The.
Tigers it's been a real dandy so. Far a couple
of one run. Games we'll talk about. That what's gonna happen?
Next on The book Of. Joe welcome back to The
(33:41):
book Of joe podcast And. Joe i'm not sure how
much you've seen to This Seattle detroit, series but it's
kind of the series we. Expected these are two very
evenly matched. TEAMS i Think seattle has the better. ROSTER
i think there's far too many strikeouts in That Detroit tigers.
LINEUP i don't like watching the play offensive, baseball but
(34:02):
somehow they hang in. Games they have the best one
run record In Major League. Baseball tell me what you've
seen so far where you think this series is.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Headed.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
WELL i have watched because my favorite reporters on the,
sidelines their.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
OFFENSE i wonder what he has to. SAY i have stayed.
UP i have.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
WATCHED i get a lot of Even steven stuff going on. Here,
actually just like the one teams who's gonna have that,
biginning who's going to really separate, Themselves and like you're, Saying,
detroit they are a couple guys that could pop. It,
Obviously carpenter can pop. It rale they could pop. It
BUT i think they're relying on their. Defense they're just
content relying on run prevention a little bit BECAUSE i
(34:37):
don't know how much faith they have in all, this
because of all the swing and. MISS i think that's
exemplified by the fact That hobby's starting a. SHORTSTOP i,
Mean hobby still moving the ball on. Occasion he's doing.
This But i've always thought with The Chicago, cubs we
were a better team when he was on the. Field
he just does things out there on, defense whether it's a,
tag whether it's a, play whether it's, ahead he played.
(34:58):
That you just there's a commas about his game, Also
SO i just don't know how much they believe at
this point that they just got they have to win
one run. Games they we're not going to beat you up,
offensively so we have to do. That on the other,
hand The mariners of the group that can really break
out at any. Time Although i've been watching the way
they've been pitching at, him and you're right regarding the
(35:19):
style of pitching and just not Giving rawley that. Pitch
they're doing a really good job Against. Suarez rodriguez obviously
is really a. Sending, AGAIN i Like. Naylor naylor's the
guy THAT i like because he's just Like Johnny, cruck you.
KNOW i think he goes out there and he just
plays baseball and he's always dangerous because he doesn't overthink.
(35:40):
It SO i like them Offensively. SEATTLE i Think detroit is,
relying LIKE i, said hopefully on pitching and, defense SO
i think you see a lot of the same les
The taggers pitchers start making some mistakes and the ball
goes over the. Wall For, SEATTLE i think that would
be the, separator but otherwise you still might see three
two four three two.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
One, Yeah and by the, Way Josh naylor not Playing game.
Three he went home To, arizona his wife expecting their first,
child so he's on the paternity. List we'll see if
he's back For game four or. Not that's the big.
Losses you Mentioned Luke, raley WHO i, like he's not
nailor likely to be at first base against right handed.
Pitching you Mentioned carpenter AND i actually said this on
(36:20):
the air before it actually. Happened there's no way with
a base open and two outs you can let Carry
carpenter beat you with a high. Fastball with a left
hander in the, bullpen base, open two, outs you, know
just spin the.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Ball get him to.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Chase when you start the, game you circle Carry carpenter
high fastball as the one path YOU mu must avoid
the fact That.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Dan wilson allowed that to.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
HAPPEN i, mean that was a huge mistake by guy
managing his first postseason.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Game now next, day what did he. Do he brought it.
In the lefty pitched to Carry, carpenter so he learned from.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
IT i thought that was a massive, mistake especially With
Riley green behind, him a guy who just does not
handle the ball above his, Waist and that was What
George kirby was. Throwing you, know if you want to
Leave kirby in you trust, him, fine but you can't
throw high fastballs To.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Carpenter you can To Riley. Green and you, KNOW.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I know it wasn't the deciding blow in the, game
but it took away the lead at that. Point so
good On Dan wilson that he made the. Adjustment he's
got a real weapon and Gave spire right. There it
doesn't look like The tigers know what to do with.
Him he's tough on, righty's but he's especially tough on,
lefties AND. A. J hinch is always going to have
to make that decision on that pocket there Of carpenter And,
(37:35):
green which is where he needs to find. Power by the,
WAY i, mean there's not much other in the. Lineup
The spire is going to see them every game of
the series in a key.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Spot, Now, well the pitch To carpenter hit it almost
looked to me like it was.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
INTENTIONAL i was. Watching that didn't look like he was
trying to elevate right. There sometimes you, Try, yeah sometimes
you have the right intent and the wrong, Result And
i'm good with. That but that's the kind of stuff
that would drive me nuts in the dugout BECAUSE i
would know that you, know you know where this guy's
hot zone. Is you, know like you, said who's On you,
know that's a better, matchup you, know you, know you,
know and then you make that kind of, mistake and
(38:08):
that's really. Wow i'd get upset. OFTEN i usually get
upset when miss. Signs miss signs would really bother me a,
lot offensively defensive if we miss signs because you went
over them so, often that would be the one thing
that would unnerve.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Me a little.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
Bit and the other one would be the intent of the. Pitch,
again you can't always you can't always rely on the
fact that with good intention you're gonna throw the ball
where you want to or how you, want of course.
Not but when the intent is wrong and the result
is even, worse that's where you would get. Upset and
that's WHERE i, Mean i've talked about this with you
a one hundred. Times and to Be, borzello that would
be a particular time when you would want the catcher
(38:45):
to look into the dugout and really look At Mike.
Borzello he would give the catcher some kind of a
little sign that would indicate we're not doing, That we're
to do something completely opposite of. That those are the
kind of moments to me where the peak and the
dugout could be absolutely. Beneficial and that's where it's also
beneficial to have somebody in the dugout that a catcher
to rely, on because we got all the pre game.
(39:05):
Prep you, know you don't have as much time in between.
PITCHES i get, that but he could be done very
quickly to the point where you're not gonna make that
kind of. Mistake that's the kind of, Mistake LIKE i
said to, me that was. Unforgivable.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah and then In game two you had the eighth
inning rally there that Give detroit credit that came back
On Matt, brash, who by the, way walked the lead
off batter with.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
A two run. Lead that's just inviting.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Trouble and then the error By, nailor and Then brash
made a mistake four consecutive sliders away From. Torkelsen his
sliders is clearly his best. Pitch he thinks he's gonna
surprise him with a fastball in And torkelsen just does
a nice, job keeps his hands in and shoots it
down the line.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Lead is lost and then Aj hinch goes To Kyle.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
FINNEGAN i, Thought joe it was still should have Been
Trek scooble's game ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Pitches if you look At Trek.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Scooble's career as, history he has never thrown more THAN
i think one hundred and nine pitches or one hundred
and seven pitches in the. Game this guy's built like a.
Tank to, me that was an empty the tank kind of,
inning the way That Alex korra did With Garrett crochet
seventeen pitches in the Wild Card.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Series so he goes To finnigan.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And finning is pitching for the fourth time in five,
games and he's clearly. GASSED i, mean it was one
of those cases where as a, manager you check with
the guy before the. Game you're not sure if he's
available or. Not he went With finnigan and quite, frankly you,
know he just hung a couple of, splitters went to Cal,
raley and went To Julio rodriguez and that's the. Game
(40:32):
maybe that circle of trust that Aj hinch has is
that narrow that he had to go to a guy
for a fourth time in five, games and you Mentioned
raleigh the way they've been careful with. Him Cal rally
in two games has seen three fast balls in the,
zone so they're definitely being extremely careful with. Him but
the splitter in this case just wasn't executed. Well he
doubles and then And Julio rodriguez. Doubles both splits left
(40:53):
up with no sink on them at, all and that's
why we have a one to one.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Series, YEAH i, mean that's the over abuse of a
pitcher kind, of BUT i don't really understand know that
guy that what the point, is what you talked about
with Schoobl that's, why like during the regular, SEASON i
like guys to finish a game once in a.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
While we talked About Jake.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Ariett in the book throwing one hundred and eighteen pitches
for a complete game, shutout something like, that maybe one
hundred and twenty In. MINNESOTA i thought that was really
important to him internally and to his development. Overall the
mind one stretch has a difficult time going back to
its original. Form you need to stretch these guys out mentally.
Too they got to know they can do this once
(41:34):
they know they can do this different. Animal but if
you don't give guys an opportunity to do.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
This.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
NOW i Think schooble did pitch a complete game last,
year didn't he or did?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
NOT i think he has pitched a complete. GAME i
have go to check the, numbers but he's.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Not it's amazing to me that he has never pitched
one hundred and ten pitches in a.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Game.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
See my part of this is you're, thinking all, right
he's gonna pitch on regular rest in game, five and
if we get, there that's a step on your throat.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Game you get a chance to go up to nothing
in the other team's.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Park that was another.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
ARGUMENT i mean back with The, Rays James, Shields, shields
he he's a bulldog. TOO i had like one hundred
and eight pitch as being As, waterloo just through. Observation
it wasn't something that was told to me from the front.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Office be.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Careful after this, POINT i was always reminded of the
average number of pitches my starters were throwing on a consistent.
BASIS i would get emails about that, whatever AND i
would look at this, stuff of COURSE i. Would but With,
shields he would get upset at one he would get.
Upset i'd take him out right about, there because for,
ME i happened to notice, that BUT i got one on,
nine one to.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
TEN i don't know, why but bad things would start.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Happening but then eventually the glass ceiling of one o
eight we tried to push to and we, did and
then he got to the point where he was able
to survive after that and survive.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Well and that's just.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Attitude you're just building, attitude you're building, Confidence you're building
something within that, person that. Athlete that There's Jack, MORRIS
i you could go down the list of great guys
in the, Past, gibson. Whatever SO i think it's important
to do, that but it's hard to convince analytically that it.
Is and again there's a lot of MANAGERS i think
would have no issue with doing.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
That but again you're to get a lot of blowback
if in fact you permit.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
This during the course of the, season they're always worried
about the next, start so much that they're worried about
the number of pitchers thrown is gonna negatively. Impact they
negative the. Impact they don't think of it as possibly
building up confidence in arm. Strength to think about the
negative that's gonna, happen which happens a lot.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Anyway so my.
Speaker 4 (43:22):
Advice would be to permit guys like him and not
everybody's created. Equally we've talked about that, Too but guys
like a, school like real, horses like that savage as
he goes into the next. Year Hopefully schlider showed it
the other. Day let these guys go a little. Bit
they're big, there, strong and they're going to be even
better once they prove them. Themselves they could do it
(43:43):
on a regular.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Basis, YEAH i love that, theory pointing out the upside to,
it which a lot of front offices.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Don't.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Right, well The dodgers may have a new closer these,
days but we have the same closer For Marianna. Rivera
Joe madden is going to take us home as he always.
Does what do you have for us? Today to close
out this episode of The book Of, Joe, WELL.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
I was you know your face with this? There oh and,
two oh and.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
TWO i was faced with one in three versus The
indians back in a couple of years, ago and it's
a tough moment to be. In AND i, remember uh
down three to one to The. Indians my kids were in.
Town took them back to my apartment. Building they had a,
great big room in. THERE i had a bunch of,
pizzas invited everybody. Over we had a big pizza party that,
(44:25):
night and everybody was astonished by. That but the point
is you you. Can't the word panic is throwing.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
AROUND i get.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
It but you just got to continue to be, yourself
believing what you, do et, cetera et. Cetera oh and,
Two and this is really what it comes down, To Bob.
Marley you never know how strong you are until being
strong is the only choice you. Have what other choice
of these guys HAVE i except to go out there be.
Strong sometimes you have to fake it a little bit
in the, beginning to catch some, traction some momentum, somehow
(44:51):
but you got.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
It you gotta be that. Way and, then Like Theodore,
roosevelt when you get to the end of your, rope
ty and not and hang.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
On that's what these guys have to do right now
that both, sides THE o and two's have to do
that not. Impossible one of, three that's just as, bad same.
Same they got to win one more. Game so from
the player's perspective of the organizational. Perspective as a, manager
they have to see the same guy walk in the
door the next day doing the same things that he's
(45:17):
done as though we're two and zero or three in
one going to this moment and the player's, perspective the
only choice you have is to be. Strong we talked
about this one of the talking points going to the
playoffs with my. Guys that would tell them something bad's
going to. Happen something bad we're not, expected we don't
like it's going to. Happen how we react to that's
going to make the. Difference and they're at that point right.
(45:39):
Now that's the inflection. Point right, now how are we
going to react to this bad? Moment that's going to
be the. Separator so the only choice they have is
to be, strong and they got to.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Be good Stuff. Joe we'll see you next time on
The book Of. Joe Thanks.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Tommy The book Of joe podcast is a production Of.
iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeart, radio is it The iHeartRadio,
App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Podcasts
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aron, Welcome back to the latest edition and playoff
edition of the Book of Joe with Me, Tom Berducci
and Joe Madden. Joe, I happened to be on the
(00:25):
only series so far that it's been even at one
one after two games. You have three series up two
to nothing. Let me start, because I think it's been
the most interesting series.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Dodgers at the Philadelphia Phillies.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I thought going in, Joe, this would be the World Series.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I really think the World Series would come out of
this series.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's been competitive, but I know Phillies fans are not
gonna be happy losing the first two at home.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
They should not be.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But Joe, I look at the Dodger team right now,
and this is the Dodger team that we expected. This
is the starting pitching that we expected when the year
went on, when it started, and they're firing on all
cylinders right now. So I don't think it's so much
everything the Phillies have done wrong as much as right
now the Dodgers look like that juggernaut we thought they
(01:10):
were going to be.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Blake Snell was just awesome in game number two.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, they turned the switch on, didn't they.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We're having a supposed to happen, Joe, but they can't.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Right, So the Jimmy Edmunds switch.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
I told you that story in the past, but I'm
telling you certain groups have it. Not that they were
bored all year, but they're into it. They're professionals. I
love the way they go about their business. However, when
they really had to, there came full volume all the way,
all the way to like one hundred on the dial.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
They're doing that, and you're right.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
I mean, for me, it's the pitching again. You saw
at the end of the game though, trying and I'm
still concerned. I don't even know how they're going to
use it moving forward. They got through that last inning. However,
their starters are major league starters. They're major league starting pitchers.
They get you deep in the game they can if
they're permitted, and they're good. They're really good, and so
they are clicking. Talked about this with you prior to this.
(02:02):
Mookie Bets turning out to be a better short stuff
than I thought he could be. A given credit there
and again we talked about this briefly. But the play
by Munsey to him at third base. Castianos must not
have gotten a good secondary lead right there, and Nick
he's not the fastest, but that's a good buck and
we could talk about this further. I just didn't know
if he would if you had Bunch Stott during the
regular season.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
That's fine if you would not.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I know he is left on left whatever, But those
are the kind of plays that's where I would second
guess myself as a manager if I conceded to do
something playoff worthy as opposed to regular season worthy, just
because because Nicki is not a good runner.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
But nevertheless, great play by Munsey and Bets.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, let's talk about that play, Joe, because there's at
so many levels. That was one of the best defensive
postseason plays that I can remember. I'm sure others will
come to mind individual spectacular plays. I remember Devon White
playing for Toronto make an incredible catch in the World Series,
the way he did a lot of times. But this
was teamwork to the nth degree. So let's rewind. Because
(03:01):
there's a pitching change on the mound, as you mentioned,
and they brought in the lefty. Scott is going to hit.
I have no problem with bunting right there. Castianos is
at second base. But during the pitching change with Alex
VESSI had coming in Mookie Betts while the players are
on the mound, decides they're going to run the wheel
play where the shortstop covers third third basement charges. You
don't see major league teams do this very often. Well,
(03:23):
first of all, you don't see teams bunt very often.
Ever since the pitchers stopped hitting. There's not a lot
of attention paid to bunt defense. And in fact, that
Dodgers had run the wheel play once this year, back
in August. They ran it against the Angels, they worked
out in spring training, nothing in between. So here is Mookie,
And to me, Mookie is the kind of player like
in basketball, I want the ball in his hands and football,
(03:45):
you know, he's the quarterback. I want him making decisions.
And I love the fact that you mentioned this, Joe.
He's played a really good shortstop, the fact that he
decides at that point he's going to run the wheel
play on the phillies.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And he sold the play so well.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Of course, as you know, Joe, if the batter sees
the shortstop is vacating, taken off towards third and the
second basement is taking off the cover first.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Slash the ball up the middle.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The whole middle of the field is open, right, but
Mooky waited so long. I mean, if you watch it,
Vessia is practically releasing the baseball by the time Moki
takes his first step. I don't think Stott had time
to read Mooki vacating because he did not vacate early.
Castianos actually had a pretty good secondary lead. Now Mooki's
a lot faster. Mooky clearly beat him to third base.
(04:32):
It was not a terrible secondary lead. I think he's
just lack of speed trying to get the third base.
To me, this is all about Mooky Betts. The way
he put the play on sold the play out, ran
Castianos to third base, makes this catch on the fly,
and then the tag and Munci, you're right, made great play.
If you watch his footwork there, it's like a shortstop
taking your relay from the outfield.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
His footwork was spectacular.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
The way he opened up and threw a strike to
third base couldn't couldn't have executed any better. Give the
Dodgers credit, Give the Mooki Bets credit. Again, I look
at the Philly Phillies fans are going to shake their head,
why are we bunting Castianos? This dot that they did
everything right. The Dodgers just did everything perfectly.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, and you're right, I didn't get to see the overhead.
The wheel play used to be way more popular back
in the day.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
He'd run all the bunt.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Plays nauseums during spring training and then during the course
of the season, especially like you said, National League, I'd
have our guys, we would do it intermittently.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Come bring everybody out. Just sachet through the.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Plays a little bit, just remind everybody when they're supposed
to be definitely at the halfway point. But without bunting,
without pitchers hitting, it's become obviously less of an issue.
So the fact that they actually thought of it, because
you can doesn't have to be runners on first and second.
That situation there with runner on second base only and
the runner was perfect for the Dodgers. Castianos is the
perfect foil right there for the Dodgers because he doesn't
(05:52):
run well.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And I can't.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I don't remember really being extraordinary taking secondary leads either.
So all the everything the perfect storm for the Dodgers
right there, and then they recognized it. It's one thing
to have the perfect storm, but you have to reconize
that it is, and then you have to go ahead
and execute, which they did do. And I'd love to
see the overhead exactly what MOOKI did. You described it
really well and again I just saw months He's just
charging down that line like this was the only thing
(06:15):
on his mind, and he did right. The footwork was spectacular,
filled it off to his side, he opened up right
to the throw. All that stuff was perfect. So, I mean,
this is the kind of stuff I want kids to watch.
This is what this is what you need to talk about.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Highlight.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
This is fundamental baseball and it's best. That's what won
the game. They the fact that they were able to
complete that play pretty much put them in position afterwards
to win that game. And give him credit. Man, I
loved all. I loved everything about that play. Kudos to
the Dodgers.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, I listen.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We talked about Blake Snell and he's been great now
down the stretch September into October.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Here at no surprise, he went out there, pitched to Jim.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
The game before it show Hey, Otani out there he
goes six innings, he looked great, got the win when
Tascar Hernandez at the three run homer. You know, right now,
as you mentioned Joe, they're just flying on all cylinders.
I mean, Yamamoto's been great down the stretch. You got
Tyler Glassanaw in the bullpen. I'm with you on Tryn
and I still don't trust him at this point. I
think after Game two, Dave Roberts is going to have
(07:13):
to move him back in the circle of trust. And
Roki Sasaki, I mean, give again the Dodgers' credit. They
put this guy in the bullpen last week of the
season in Triple A.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Let's give it a shot.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And he gets to the big leagues and it's like,
let's give him a little more leverage. And in the
span of two weeks, this guy's gone from a starting
pitcher to a closer in the postseason. He's the first
pitcher ever with his first two saves in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And he doesn't look scared that. I know. People say, wow,
he doesn't throw enough strikes to close the game.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, yeah, he does. His stuff is playing up and simplify,
it's just all fastball split. The split is one of
the nastiest pitches in the game. To me, Joe, he
looks comfortable out there. You know, if the Dodgers are
going to get six innings from their starting pitchers, they're
not gonna get beat. And I said this before the
year started. If the Dodgers ever got to October with
even three of their top four starting pitchers healthy, no
(08:04):
one's going to beat them.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And I still feel the same way.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Well, I know Andrew probably saw David Price in Sasaki.
I mean, it's had to be part of the conversation.
When David ascended for us in two thousand and eight,
he had started a little bit, really was not a
relief pitcher, but we brought him out of the pen
in the playoffs and he threw the you know, the
last inning of the third I think it was against
the Red Sox in Game seven at the Trup round
ball the hockey we're going to the series. So I
(08:27):
think there's some similarities there also with command, control and command.
I mean, a guy with an arm like Sasaki and
even sawt with what's the kid from Milwaukee the last
name miss miss Misserowski.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Thank you. I'm Polish. I shouldn't know anyway.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I mean, if you could miss bats contact is minimal,
they'll accept the walk. I mean analytically, they'll accept the walk.
When I had Maddy Moore with the again with the Rays,
Maddy mow great art, great stuff, miss bats, but would
walk people and put you like kind of a hole,
but always was able to pitch out of it.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We contact miss Bat.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
So when you look at guys like Sasaki, David Price
in the past, Maddymore, Miss Rowski, all these dudes, great stuff,
not a lot of hard contact, a lot of swing,
and miss I think you're more benevolent regarding accepting the
base on balls in these situations. Of course, contact guys.
You really can't accept that from because the balls in
(09:24):
play too often and bad things could happen. So I
think that's part of the analytical framework, is that if
you throw hard enough and miss Bat's enough elicit, we
contact enough, we accept walks.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and I know Philly is not feeling good, especially
down to games to the Dodgers, but and they'll be
if they don't get through this series. A lot of
talk about you know, the quote unquote window.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
For this team, which I always hate hearing. You know,
teams a Bob all the time. Rosters never are static.
But anyway, I look at the Phillies, I really think
you gotta be careful that people don't look at the
Phillies like they're a worse team than they've shown, because
the Dodgers, to me, are that good right now.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
They just running.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
They're running up against a team playing peak form. Yeah,
there's some issues with the Phillies. I mean, right now,
Schwarber is not hitting at all. It's just a lefty
dependent lineup that you can pitch too. There are some strikeouts,
there is some chase in there. But that team being said,
this is a really good team. To me, I think
it's going to cause a lot of soul searching. But
I think you look on the other side and say,
(10:23):
the Dodgers right now are that good?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Agreed?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I mean, it really does come down to the fact
that Schwarbs is having a hard time. I mean, Harper's
is still okay right now too. They're just not pumping
on all cylinders like they did during the regular season. Offensively,
if Shwarps could get off the snide, they're a little
bit put the ball over a wall, and the same
thing with Harper. They just need those two guys to
be who they are as much as anything. I mean,
(10:45):
I love Turner as a leadoff hitter. As a baseball player,
I'm a big, big fan of his. Amy Stott is
a grinder, all that kind of good stuff that they do.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Real mudo.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
They have this gritty group of baseball players that I
really like. I like them a lot, and I like
they're pitching. I like Sanchez, like Suarez, I like all
these dudes that they have there. They just you're right,
they're catching the wrong team at the wrong time right now,
and they're gonna they're gonna have to overcome somehow. I mean,
this is it's not impossible. The Dodgers just beat them
(11:14):
twice in Philly. The Phillies could return the favorite in
Los Angeles very easily, It's no question.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
But I think it has to come from the big boys.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Then what the big boys do, and if they don't,
it's going to be impossible I think for the Phillies
to dig themselves out of this hole.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Speaking of holes, let's talk about where the Chicago Cubs
are at, down two games to Milwaukee Brewers, who have
just boat raced them in two games.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I mean both times Chicago takes the lead.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
There was a dagger of a three year at homer
by Vaughan Andrew Vaughn in the bottom of the first
inning after Chicago goes up three to nothing at the
top of the first. That was just just a huge
swing right there. Give me your take on the Cubs
right here. I thought they were in trouble as soon
as we heard that Kate Horton. Their best picture was
not in play with the rib injury. IM and Naga,
I've said it all long, down the stretch, He's just
(11:58):
a home run waiting to happen, and sure enough that
played out in that key spot.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
With Vaughan and then another one.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Actually, I don't see the Cubs coming back in the series, Joe.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean, listen, they're going back to Wrigley. We know
anything that happen.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
But where's it gonna start with the Cubs in terms
of how they can shut the Brewers down?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Because right now the Brewers are rolling.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
We know they're a good offensive team. We didn't know
they were gonna hit home runs the way they did
in Game two. They're gonna do that. They're gonna be unbeatable.
What are the chances the Cubs get back in the series. Joe,
it's not likely. And I'm my main reason for that
is they're pitching. Like you're talking about the starting pitching.
Is Italian going to pitch the next start? Is he
up next?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I mean, you got Colin Ray and Ty One again,
Craig Counsel.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
He's gonna mix a match and get guys out quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But to me, I just don't see a guy out
there who's going to And I think you need to
do this once in a while in the postseason, Joe,
take the ball to this through the sixth inning.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I mean, you just can't mix a messes all the time.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Tell me. I agree, But that's the point.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
I just don't know that they have the arm or
arms to come back from a two zero deficit. I
think they'll hit more, although the Brewers are in pretty
good shape pitching wise right now too. They were able
to get through the yesterday's game with the bullpen usage
like they did, so it's gonna be It's very unlikely.
And then basically this primarily on the advantage of the
(13:14):
Brewers I think have over the Cubs on the mound.
You know, the team's on the field. I mean, the
Cubs are very capable of just blowing it up offensively.
They're just gonna have to get their guys going too. Overall,
but the unlikely component for me, just to sum it up,
is the fact that I don't think the Cubs starting
pitching or pitching in general, is good enough to win
three in a row versus the Brewers.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Right now, and let's talk about like the perfect Pat
Murphy ploy in that game, as a perfect Brewers ploy
to have Quinn Priester going through his entire warm up
before the game as a decoy that he's going to
be the bulk guy.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Behind Ashby, the left handed starter.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I don't know if this matter to the Chicago Cubs,
but they did have Quinn Priester go through his entire
routine to make them think that he was going to
be the next guy in of course he wasn't. And
Priester now is lined up.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And could pitch in Game number three, And he actually
threw his full bullpen after the game at eleven thirty
at night. He said he'd never thrown a bullpen that
late before. That's such a Murph thing to do, It's
such a Brewers thing to do where the players just
totally buy into it. Nobody's gonna say why are we
doing this? Or I can't believe I'm doing this. They
just say, Okay, I'll do it. I don't think it
had any effect on the game, Joe, but I love
(14:26):
the fact that Murph things out of the box, and
most especially that his players go along with whatever he suggests.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
So, okay, he had a full bullpen yesterday. He gets
up and does the whole thing and throws at the
end of the game. They have today off, correct, Yes,
so it almost sounds like he's not going to pitch
the next game, but the game after.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That for Yeah, I'm not sure who he's got lined
up for three, but he could pitch mem in four.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
You never know what the Brewers. It's like they're almost
interchangeable parts.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Yeah, that's the thing. So is prol to have enough
rest to come back on Thursday? I think he does
one two. Yeah, So that's what they may be doing
right there, and then push Priester back to the to
the Friday game if possible, or is a Thursday game.
Excuse me, that might be what they're gonna end up doing.
They just want to get it over with, get Parlta
(15:15):
out there, get it over with, and then really get
their risk going to the next round. Because I'm just saying,
if you had a full bullpen yesterday and almost like
you need two days before you're going to actually start
in the game as opposed to day off and then start.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
So if you through that much, it's just hard.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Unless that's his regular routine and I don't know that,
but to pitch with a day off and then pitch
start unlikely. It almost sounds like they're going to go
with Peralta in the next game and then keep Priester
for the one after that.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But if you're Craig Counsel and you see Priest going
through this before the game, like okay, that's the next
guy in, doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I don't think it matters.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
No, no, no, no, I'm I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
The charade of this is just to me as humorous
more than anything.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Well, that's a very I mean, if in fact it
was Murch's idea, that's very collegiate. I mean, back in
the day, Jim Brock would have done something like that
at ASU and a heartbeat. All the history onics with
guys or warming up where somebody can't see you. They'd
have pictures warm up, understand, so you didn't know the
guy was warming up. That was part of the past
two It's just difficult to hide from cameras today. Yeah,
if in fact that was part of it, it probably
(16:18):
was a little bit of a fun thing for the
Brewers to do because they knew that they weren't going
to use him yesterday and that they already had this
all mapped out. Obviously they did, so not a big deal.
It didn't really impact the Cubs at all. If somebody
makes that argument, I disagree.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Well, right now we are on course for another Brewers, Dodgers,
and LCS. We saw that I think it was back
in twenty nineteen. It was a great series that would
be pretty cool. Not over yet, but commanding leads so
far for both the Dodgers and the Brewers.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
How about the American League.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
We'll dive into that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Welcome back to the Book of Joke podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I'm sure you caught a bunch of the Yankees and
the Blue Jays in Toronto.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It's just been amazing to me the way Toronto has
hit the baseball.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
It actually brought me back. I'm curious to see.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
If you thought this, Joe, when you played the Yankees
as one of the Angels coaches in two thousand and two,
where it seemed like the hitters were just on everything,
did that.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Occur to you, Yeah, swarming offense.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
I saw the swim. I saw that with them, and
I see it with the Brewers too. I thought that
the other night watching the first game against the Cubs,
when the Brewers just dismantled them just by moving the
ball constantly. And then the Blue Jays have got a
little bit of that DNA right now. Also we used
to I mean I was listening to the one game
because I was driving back from Philly.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
But bat around the bat. They hit around the batting
older hit around.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And I know if you look back with the two
thousand and two Angels, my god, do we do that often?
And that's just moving the ball. I can't even tell
you that we accepted our walks. Is our guys just
like to swing the bat. We didn't strike out a lot,
we moved the baseball.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
So yes, I thought about both teams.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I thought about the Brewers doing that also, and it
is It's very interesting the way the Blue Jays are
finally kind of achieving at the level you thought they
could potentially achieve that for a while, and they're doing it.
They're playing a complete game. They're playing a complete game.
Their defense has gotten better, everything's gotten better. They're just
more baseball efficient than I've seen.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
In the past.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, a lot of that's been happening at home. They
definitely have a mojo working in their home ballpark. The
ballpark definitely plays to what they do well.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
They put the ball in play.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I mean they strike out the least percentage wise in
the major leagues.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
That turf is hard. You put on the ground, it's
going to get through.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
And my goodness, they're hitting home runs one handed at
ninety three miles exit velocity.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean, what is going on?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I saw that.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I was That's that reminded me of playing in Boulder, Colorado.
I don't know, I mean, just and the air is
not I mean, that's sea level up there.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, that's how good it's been going for Toronto. And
then of course you've got Trey ya Savage, the young
pitcher there. I mean, what a fine I mean, this
guy was drafted last year twenty twenty four and he's
got such a unique angle and everything he throws is unique. Right,
He's straight over the top, tall guy to begin with.
The ball's coming out of the sky, and he's got
a split which is absolutely nasty.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And he actually has a slider.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Which I've never heard of, Joe, which actually has screwball
action to it.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It actually works back at the armside, not to a.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Backup slider, the backup sider. Everybody's been wanting to do
that for years.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So if you're the Yankees, if you're anybody, and you're
facing this kid, and obviously you haven't seen him before,
and you've got to solve him in a postseason game,
getting essentially two looks at him, maybe a third look,
that's a tough task.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
And the Yankees were not up to it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean, I thought all along of this kid was
going to get the ball once I saw him pitch.
You go with stuff more than experience. You know, Schuzer basket.
These guys get great to have. But when I see
a guy throw like that, Joe, I gotta trust the stuff,
and I'm sure they know the makeup as well.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
We're in a big spot.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You know he's going to be fine, just the way
the Yankees did with Cam Schlitzler elimination game against the
Red Sox. Trust the stuff experience, Yeah, I love it,
but I want the stuff and this kid's got it.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Well.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
I was going off of your scouting experience because you
were really talking him up from the last time you
saw him, and I had not seen him yet. Wow,
I watched. I rewatched the video because I wanted to
see all that. It's all of that.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Plus he's from Pottsdown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
How about that right down the street on top of
his savage he's you know, the some kind of a
European name. Jim Bouten was what I thought of. I
thought of Jim Bowten, the way he came over the top.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Bountain's hat would fly off.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Buntain didn't have that kind of a split, but that
kind of high energy delivery from over the top. And
then I had a guy we've talked about, Jeff Neeman six'.
Nine and then you can think Of Chris young THE
gm now with The. Rangers this high downward angle. Stuff,
see for, Me i've always talked to guys AND i
always even said in postgame press, conferences down angle equals.
(20:50):
Movement to, me if you could just imagine when when
the ball is coming from such a high angle down
the point of intersection for the bat and the ball
BECOMES i, think more. Difficult it's just it's not, flat
it's it's directly down and you're again with the upmore
of the. UPSWING i think that there's a chance with,
that but it's still more difficult to really.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Pinpoint and then.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
On top of, that the split, WELL i, mean, LISTEN
i don't know that was a real. SPLIT i don't
know what he's calling that, thing but that was almost
like Watching Brian, harvey And harve had a pretty high delivery,
also And Johnny, orton we'll be blocking that stuff in the.
DIRT i don't know how long he's been throwing. THAT
i think it's a tremendous. Pitch my only concern always
was with that pitch and there's nothing behind your fingers
(21:31):
are off to the side of the. Ball, YEAH i
just always had an uncomfortable feeling with guys hurting their.
Arms and somebody might argue against, that but it was
my experience in the minor. Leagues but right, now that
pitch is one of the best in the. Game right,
now that pitch is unhittable and lefties have no. CHANCE i,
mean the left of that ball goes down and fades.
Away then he just has to pop an elevated, fastball
(21:53):
and he's pretty much in controlling. Command on top of,
that he suggested the guy's. Makeup heard him speak. Afterwards
pretty confident young, Man very confident young. Man he's got
it going on right. Now we'll see what happens, if in,
fact somebody pins his ears back a little. Bit but,
THANG i mean the way he's, feeling the way he's,
throwing the combination of, pitches the angle, itself nobody sees.
(22:13):
That nobody really encourages that high. Angle the angle has
been primarily more like. Dropped everybody wants to drop the
arm slot to elevate the, ball and this one's getting
the arm up to get the ball.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Down.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, great, points you're, right And i've checked.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
This the average release point for a major league pitcher
has gone down and like every year for the last
four or five, years and people love that, upshoot so to.
Speak the attack, angle the low release, point velocity to
the high point of the strike. Zone there's been a
lot of emphasis on, that so kind of old school
over the, top you, Know Jim, palmer deliveries have kind
(22:49):
of faded, away, Right how many times did a pitching
coach used to, say get on top of the, ball
get on top of the.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
BALL i don't really teach that.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
ANYMORE i actually think getting on top of the ball
like that is actually a little more stressful on the.
ARM i always tell, people just take a ten pound
weight or a five pound, weight hold it straight over your,
head but now hold it off to the side where
your elbow's bent a little.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Bit which one's.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Easier it's a lot easier off to the side with
your elbow ben a little bit straight over the, top
the Way Michael waka was early on in his.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Career it can be. Rough but you make a great, Point,
joe that because you see fewer of, those the deception
is even greater now than it would have been ten
years ago because it is so.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Unusual, LISTEN i don't know what happens when he or
if he does get, hit BUT i look around, Also,
joe AND i see it's almost Like Roger craig in
the nineteen. Eighties the split is coming. BACK i, mean
whether it's asak at his. Split you're going to See
Logan gilbert In Alds game three For, seattle probably the
nastiest split in all of, baseball which is saying something
(23:48):
we've seen that Splits finnegan And montero in The tigers.
Bullpen Aj hinch wants to keep throwing splits At rodriguez
and Cal rawley The. Mariners the split is. BACK i,
mean it's become a weapon in the game. Too i'm
not sure why that. Is maybe it's, analytics maybe it's.
TECHNOLOGY i know that guys that don't throw a change
up well a lot of times will try the, split
(24:09):
and we're seeing a lot more splits at Least i'm
noticing that in the.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Postseason, Yeah i've always that was part of the gig
too of the.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Landscape when a pitcher cannot throw more of a conventional
kind of off speed, pitch you would always try to
do give them a different, grip try something new or.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Different and, AGAIN i could name.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
A pitcher, GOSH i can't name him right, now but
as a young man out of A, Nacadosius texas right
hander THAT i had in a ball with The angels
and great, arm like mid nineties. Arm but it wanted
to throw a split so much as a youngster that
eventually he loses fastball the veteran player on the other,
end LIKE i just, suggested once you are at that
waterloo moment where you have to be creative and come
(24:46):
up with something, else that's where a SPLIT i think
needs to be introduced or should be introduced if you
cannot really do the conventional other break the. BALL i,
love change of. Curveball that's to my two favorite other.
Pitches and then if it needs to become the, slider
cut or whatever you got to do, THAT i just
maybe throw a strike on occasion BECAUSE i can't command
these other.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Things but if you can't.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Don't have the propensity or the ability to throw the
have your arm and wrist work in a way that
you could spin the, baseball curve it or the. Field
the grip of the change up just doesn't make any.
Sense then you just split the fingers and throw it
as hard as you can pretty, much and just let
the natural reaction of the ball coming out tumbly out
of your hand be that pitch for.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
You so, again.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
When you run out of options and you've tried everything
else with a young pitcher in an attempt to give
him something other than a fastball because the other stuff
just doesn't form up for.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Him that's WHEN i THINK i would add these other.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Pitches, however last, point when you come out OF asu
Or mesa community college wherever it might, be the first
THING i wanted to be checked on with in the
rookie ball would be does he have a change? Up
and if he doesn't have a change, up just try
to give him a change up grip and.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Let him just work on throwing a change.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Up if he doesn't have a, curveball just give him
like a curveball thing, grip some instruction on the, side
and he doesn't have to bring it into the aim.
Yet but just introduce him to, this because we're always
very aware of young guys coming into an your. Organization
let him, pitch let him, play let, him let him
show what he's what he's got based on what the
scout had, seen and at the point where he starts
(26:17):
to meet, failure that's when you introduce. Things, HOWEVER i
just always thought it'd be wise if he doesn't throw
a change of give him a grip to play with.
Her just have him understand, it and if he can't
spin a ball just even on the sidelines practice soft.
Blackground just show him how to start spinning, it because
at some, point if you do meet that waterloo, moment
you have to go to something.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Else i'm glad you brought that up BECAUSE i had
a conversation With Chris, fetter The tiger's pitching, coach about.
This it's fascinating to me how how much the game
changed once they were able to track how a baseball
spins and the path the ball. Takes you, know the
high speed, cameras track, man rep, sodos all those. THINGS i, Think,
joe we talked about right handed and left handed. Pitchers
(26:57):
right and there are some guys who pronate well and
some guys are. Supernaters they basically fall into either categor to,
generalize and you, know for the guys who don't really
pronate the wrist, well it's a hard. Time it's hard
for them to throw a change. Up you, know the
guys who are real big souperinninaterors hard for them to
throw a change.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Up.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Well in the, past you kind of forced it on the,
guy like you, said try to work with a.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Grip the hand just doesn't work that.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Way now we know that guys who don't pronate, well
there are ways to throw a change up now that
what they call this seam shifted. Wake essentially it's a
two seam change. Up And Trek scoobo is one of those.
Guys his career took off.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
When he stopped trying to throw a traditional change.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Up and what they do is that it'll take a
baseball and they put a black dot on the side
of the, baseball kind of near the, horseshoe and when
he releases the, ball he wants to see that.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Dot stay right. There no, wobble you, know just stay in.
Line he told.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Me he equates it to if you're putting and you
put a line on your ball and you can see
the end over end. Spin you don't want, wobble you
don't certainly want side to. Side you just want to
see that good north south rotation on your golf ball
as you put it.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Cleanly same the idea with.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
HIM i think it's fascinating to, Me joe that, guys
now you know you can find a, grip you can
find a pitch path with the help of, technology whereas
ten twenty years ago that was not even. Possible your
coaches were struggling to find ways to get guys to
get to dead in a Baseball, well.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah And i'm going to take that a step further
because you're talking about. GRIP i was always fascinated by
good curveballs coming, up you, know as a young, scout
as a young. Instructor WHEN i saw a good breaking,
ball good curveball, Especially i'd asked the pitcher to show
me his, grip and like if You Bert blyleve And bert.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
HAD i, mean the BEST i Think i've.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
SEEN i mean in regards to shape break whatever, spin
he could hear, it but he put his thumb up
on the. Side Even Mike, butcher one of my pitching,
Coaches butch coming, up had a really really good. Curveball
so but showed me your grip thumb on the side
and not not necessarily tucked. Underneath SO i would always
look at grips WHEN i saw a really.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Good, PITCH i tell, you show me your.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Grip and my Point i'm trying to make is that
a lot of times the grip with something really good
would be some kind of something slightly, unconventional not the
spalding guide. Grip it's even like you take it to
the offensive side of. Things hitters the way they start their.
Stance whether you know we talk About Craig council being a,
manager now how he used to have the bad above
is said almost Like yescreemsky, did or Where Julio franco
(29:26):
used to bring it almost the tip of the batpointed
at the, picture you could go up and, Down Joe
demagio really spread, out Or Paul maltar without any movement.
Whatsoever the thing about all these guys THAT, i as
a hitting, coach would emphasize or look at a good
dude to like a, video at all the point at
which they can make, contact they would all look the.
Same and that would say you have to be able
(29:46):
to get there with at least an average velocity fastball
to get to look like this at the point of,
contact regardless of where you start. From so the same
thing with a picture with an unconventional grip or a different.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Grip if you took a.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Slow motion or a freeze action picture of all these
good dudes at the point of, release a lot of
them are going to look almost exactly the. Same hitters
will look almost exactly the, same regardless of how they
began this whole journey to get to that. Point so
this was SOMETHING i always non conventional batting, stances non
conventional grips on. Pitches Bob boone the, way it was
one of the first news to sit on the ground
(30:18):
with his butt to receive the low. PITCH a lot
of greatness is involved in non convention where guys did
things a little bit differently that was comfortable to, them
but that's how their body. Worked so, anyway long answer
maybe not totally, relevant but it just made reminded me
of That I've i've always wanted to know WHEN i saw,
greatness show me how you're doing, this because most of
(30:39):
the time it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
TYPICAL i think the average van would be amazed at
the kind of brain power that's in a major league
clubhouse these.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Days you, know WHEN i was talking To Chris, fetder
he showed me this little.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Device you KNOW i mentioned marking your golf, ball, right you,
know they have these plastic little forms right where you
can just use your sharpie and put it inside the
track of where you want the line to. Go, well
they have these forms that they lock around a baseball
and they can draw this black dot AS i, mentioned
but the dot is actually different for each picture depending
on how they grip the. Baseball so it was actually
(31:12):
somebody in their run prevention department that went to a
THREE d printer and made these on their.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Own it's just amazing how, technical.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
How precise things are these, days and trying to get
the ball to move the way that they wanted to.
Move it's just you'd be amazed at how scientific things have.
Gotten by the, Way, joe we didn't talk enough of.
ONE i want to get your take on The. YANKEES
i can't say The yankees are out of this series.
Yet they're just too. Talented and for, Me toronto is
a very different team on the road than they are at.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Home but tell me what you've.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
SEEN i was shocked At Max freed through a clunker
in a big spot like that the way that he.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Did Maybe toronto is just that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Hot but tell me what you saw out out Of
New york and what their chances are going.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Forward, well it's.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
JUDGE i, mean those, guys we've talked about.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
It they got hit home runs to, win and they've
not been able to hit home runs at this particular,
JUNCTUIRT i mean that's still who they, are that is their,
yeah free the clutter with him was, Surprising although then
you're pitching against you, savage who's all of a sudden
like my, god who's better than him right?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Now so they've been matched up.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Well on the mound to the point where all of a,
sudden or not all of a. SUDDEN i, mean The
Blue jays have some pop, too but their offense has been,
steady where the The yankees has not been so, steady
and the ball over the wall has to. Happen if
The yankees are going to mount to comeback right, now
that's their. Game They're they're not going to all of
a sudden shift gears and move the baseball except their,
(32:35):
walks move, runners steel, bases although they, can but that's
not what they're trying to. Do they're trying to bludge in.
You so they have to bludge in you pitching, wise
they have to bludge in you, offensively And i'd say primarily.
Offensively because of, that the ball doesn't start going over the.
Wall If judge continues to have these you, know singles at,
bats driving run once in a, while but really not
looking like himself at the, plate that's the big difference for.
(32:57):
Me once if he were to just turn it, on
the rest of the guys will start feeding off.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
That but it really does revolve. HIM i believe.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Agreed with that. Assessment we talk about it all the.
Time that's the way The yankees win. Games it's no.
DIFFERENT i thought they would get to The toronto bullpen
with their, power but they're losing the first half of the,
game so they've got to get a good start From
rodn In game.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Three, hey let's take a quick.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
BREAK i am at the series between The mariners and The.
Tigers it's been a real dandy so. Far a couple
of one run. Games we'll talk about. That what's gonna happen?
Next on The book Of. Joe welcome back to The
(33:41):
book Of joe podcast And. Joe i'm not sure how
much you've seen to This Seattle detroit, series but it's
kind of the series we. Expected these are two very
evenly matched. TEAMS i Think seattle has the better. ROSTER
i think there's far too many strikeouts in That Detroit tigers.
LINEUP i don't like watching the play offensive, baseball but
(34:02):
somehow they hang in. Games they have the best one
run record In Major League. Baseball tell me what you've
seen so far where you think this series is.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Headed.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
WELL i have watched because my favorite reporters on the,
sidelines their.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
OFFENSE i wonder what he has to. SAY i have stayed.
UP i have.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
WATCHED i get a lot of Even steven stuff going on. Here,
actually just like the one teams who's gonna have that,
biginning who's going to really separate, Themselves and like you're, Saying,
detroit they are a couple guys that could pop. It,
Obviously carpenter can pop. It rale they could pop. It
BUT i think they're relying on their. Defense they're just
content relying on run prevention a little bit BECAUSE i
(34:37):
don't know how much faith they have in all, this
because of all the swing and. MISS i think that's
exemplified by the fact That hobby's starting a. SHORTSTOP i,
Mean hobby still moving the ball on. Occasion he's doing.
This But i've always thought with The Chicago, cubs we
were a better team when he was on the. Field
he just does things out there on, defense whether it's a,
tag whether it's a, play whether it's, ahead he played.
(34:58):
That you just there's a commas about his game, Also
SO i just don't know how much they believe at
this point that they just got they have to win
one run. Games they we're not going to beat you up,
offensively so we have to do. That on the other,
hand The mariners of the group that can really break
out at any. Time Although i've been watching the way
they've been pitching at, him and you're right regarding the
(35:19):
style of pitching and just not Giving rawley that. Pitch
they're doing a really good job Against. Suarez rodriguez obviously
is really a. Sending, AGAIN i Like. Naylor naylor's the
guy THAT i like because he's just Like Johnny, cruck you.
KNOW i think he goes out there and he just
plays baseball and he's always dangerous because he doesn't overthink.
(35:40):
It SO i like them Offensively. SEATTLE i Think detroit is,
relying LIKE i, said hopefully on pitching and, defense SO
i think you see a lot of the same les
The taggers pitchers start making some mistakes and the ball
goes over the. Wall For, SEATTLE i think that would
be the, separator but otherwise you still might see three
two four three two.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
One, Yeah and by the, Way Josh naylor not Playing game.
Three he went home To, arizona his wife expecting their first,
child so he's on the paternity. List we'll see if
he's back For game four or. Not that's the big.
Losses you Mentioned Luke, raley WHO i, like he's not
nailor likely to be at first base against right handed.
Pitching you Mentioned carpenter AND i actually said this on
(36:20):
the air before it actually. Happened there's no way with
a base open and two outs you can let Carry
carpenter beat you with a high. Fastball with a left
hander in the, bullpen base, open two, outs you, know
just spin the.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Ball get him to.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Chase when you start the, game you circle Carry carpenter
high fastball as the one path YOU mu must avoid
the fact That.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Dan wilson allowed that to.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
HAPPEN i, mean that was a huge mistake by guy
managing his first postseason.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Game now next, day what did he. Do he brought it.
In the lefty pitched to Carry, carpenter so he learned from.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
IT i thought that was a massive, mistake especially With
Riley green behind, him a guy who just does not
handle the ball above his, Waist and that was What
George kirby was. Throwing you, know if you want to
Leave kirby in you trust, him, fine but you can't
throw high fastballs To.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Carpenter you can To Riley. Green and you, KNOW.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I know it wasn't the deciding blow in the, game
but it took away the lead at that. Point so
good On Dan wilson that he made the. Adjustment he's
got a real weapon and Gave spire right. There it
doesn't look like The tigers know what to do with.
Him he's tough on, righty's but he's especially tough on,
lefties AND. A. J hinch is always going to have
to make that decision on that pocket there Of carpenter And,
(37:35):
green which is where he needs to find. Power by the,
WAY i, mean there's not much other in the. Lineup
The spire is going to see them every game of
the series in a key.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Spot, Now, well the pitch To carpenter hit it almost
looked to me like it was.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
INTENTIONAL i was. Watching that didn't look like he was
trying to elevate right. There sometimes you, Try, yeah sometimes
you have the right intent and the wrong, Result And
i'm good with. That but that's the kind of stuff
that would drive me nuts in the dugout BECAUSE i
would know that you, know you know where this guy's
hot zone. Is you, know like you, said who's On you,
know that's a better, matchup you, know you, know you,
know and then you make that kind of, mistake and
(38:08):
that's really. Wow i'd get upset. OFTEN i usually get
upset when miss. Signs miss signs would really bother me a,
lot offensively defensive if we miss signs because you went
over them so, often that would be the one thing
that would unnerve.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Me a little.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
Bit and the other one would be the intent of the. Pitch,
again you can't always you can't always rely on the
fact that with good intention you're gonna throw the ball
where you want to or how you, want of course.
Not but when the intent is wrong and the result
is even, worse that's where you would get. Upset and
that's WHERE i, Mean i've talked about this with you
a one hundred. Times and to Be, borzello that would
be a particular time when you would want the catcher
(38:45):
to look into the dugout and really look At Mike.
Borzello he would give the catcher some kind of a
little sign that would indicate we're not doing, That we're
to do something completely opposite of. That those are the
kind of moments to me where the peak and the
dugout could be absolutely. Beneficial and that's where it's also
beneficial to have somebody in the dugout that a catcher
to rely, on because we got all the pre game.
(39:05):
Prep you, know you don't have as much time in between.
PITCHES i get, that but he could be done very
quickly to the point where you're not gonna make that
kind of. Mistake that's the kind of, Mistake LIKE i
said to, me that was. Unforgivable.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah and then In game two you had the eighth
inning rally there that Give detroit credit that came back
On Matt, brash, who by the, way walked the lead
off batter with.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
A two run. Lead that's just inviting.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Trouble and then the error By, nailor and Then brash
made a mistake four consecutive sliders away From. Torkelsen his
sliders is clearly his best. Pitch he thinks he's gonna
surprise him with a fastball in And torkelsen just does
a nice, job keeps his hands in and shoots it
down the line.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Lead is lost and then Aj hinch goes To Kyle.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
FINNEGAN i, Thought joe it was still should have Been
Trek scooble's game ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Pitches if you look At Trek.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Scooble's career as, history he has never thrown more THAN
i think one hundred and nine pitches or one hundred
and seven pitches in the. Game this guy's built like a.
Tank to, me that was an empty the tank kind of,
inning the way That Alex korra did With Garrett crochet
seventeen pitches in the Wild Card.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Series so he goes To finnigan.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And finning is pitching for the fourth time in five,
games and he's clearly. GASSED i, mean it was one
of those cases where as a, manager you check with
the guy before the. Game you're not sure if he's
available or. Not he went With finnigan and quite, frankly you,
know he just hung a couple of, splitters went to Cal,
raley and went To Julio rodriguez and that's the. Game
(40:32):
maybe that circle of trust that Aj hinch has is
that narrow that he had to go to a guy
for a fourth time in five, games and you Mentioned
raleigh the way they've been careful with. Him Cal rally
in two games has seen three fast balls in the,
zone so they're definitely being extremely careful with. Him but
the splitter in this case just wasn't executed. Well he
doubles and then And Julio rodriguez. Doubles both splits left
(40:53):
up with no sink on them at, all and that's
why we have a one to one.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Series, YEAH i, mean that's the over abuse of a
pitcher kind, of BUT i don't really understand know that
guy that what the point, is what you talked about
with Schoobl that's, why like during the regular, SEASON i
like guys to finish a game once in a.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
While we talked About Jake.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Ariett in the book throwing one hundred and eighteen pitches
for a complete game, shutout something like, that maybe one
hundred and twenty In. MINNESOTA i thought that was really
important to him internally and to his development. Overall the
mind one stretch has a difficult time going back to
its original. Form you need to stretch these guys out mentally.
Too they got to know they can do this once
(41:34):
they know they can do this different. Animal but if
you don't give guys an opportunity to do.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
This.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
NOW i Think schooble did pitch a complete game last,
year didn't he or did?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
NOT i think he has pitched a complete. GAME i
have go to check the, numbers but he's.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Not it's amazing to me that he has never pitched
one hundred and ten pitches in a.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Game.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
See my part of this is you're, thinking all, right
he's gonna pitch on regular rest in game, five and
if we get, there that's a step on your throat.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Game you get a chance to go up to nothing
in the other team's.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Park that was another.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
ARGUMENT i mean back with The, Rays James, Shields, shields
he he's a bulldog. TOO i had like one hundred
and eight pitch as being As, waterloo just through. Observation
it wasn't something that was told to me from the front.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Office be.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Careful after this, POINT i was always reminded of the
average number of pitches my starters were throwing on a consistent.
BASIS i would get emails about that, whatever AND i
would look at this, stuff of COURSE i. Would but With,
shields he would get upset at one he would get.
Upset i'd take him out right about, there because for,
ME i happened to notice, that BUT i got one on,
nine one to.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
TEN i don't know, why but bad things would start.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Happening but then eventually the glass ceiling of one o
eight we tried to push to and we, did and
then he got to the point where he was able
to survive after that and survive.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Well and that's just.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Attitude you're just building, attitude you're building, Confidence you're building
something within that, person that. Athlete that There's Jack, MORRIS
i you could go down the list of great guys
in the, Past, gibson. Whatever SO i think it's important
to do, that but it's hard to convince analytically that it.
Is and again there's a lot of MANAGERS i think
would have no issue with doing.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
That but again you're to get a lot of blowback
if in fact you permit.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
This during the course of the, season they're always worried
about the next, start so much that they're worried about
the number of pitchers thrown is gonna negatively. Impact they
negative the. Impact they don't think of it as possibly
building up confidence in arm. Strength to think about the
negative that's gonna, happen which happens a lot.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Anyway so my.
Speaker 4 (43:22):
Advice would be to permit guys like him and not
everybody's created. Equally we've talked about that, Too but guys
like a, school like real, horses like that savage as
he goes into the next. Year Hopefully schlider showed it
the other. Day let these guys go a little. Bit
they're big, there, strong and they're going to be even
better once they prove them. Themselves they could do it
(43:43):
on a regular.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Basis, YEAH i love that, theory pointing out the upside to,
it which a lot of front offices.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Don't.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Right, well The dodgers may have a new closer these,
days but we have the same closer For Marianna. Rivera
Joe madden is going to take us home as he always.
Does what do you have for us? Today to close
out this episode of The book Of, Joe, WELL.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
I was you know your face with this? There oh and,
two oh and.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
TWO i was faced with one in three versus The
indians back in a couple of years, ago and it's
a tough moment to be. In AND i, remember uh
down three to one to The. Indians my kids were in.
Town took them back to my apartment. Building they had a,
great big room in. THERE i had a bunch of,
pizzas invited everybody. Over we had a big pizza party that,
(44:25):
night and everybody was astonished by. That but the point
is you you. Can't the word panic is throwing.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
AROUND i get.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
It but you just got to continue to be, yourself
believing what you, do et, cetera et. Cetera oh and,
Two and this is really what it comes down, To Bob.
Marley you never know how strong you are until being
strong is the only choice you. Have what other choice
of these guys HAVE i except to go out there be.
Strong sometimes you have to fake it a little bit
in the, beginning to catch some, traction some momentum, somehow
(44:51):
but you got.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
It you gotta be that. Way and, then Like Theodore,
roosevelt when you get to the end of your, rope
ty and not and hang.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
On that's what these guys have to do right now
that both, sides THE o and two's have to do
that not. Impossible one of, three that's just as, bad same.
Same they got to win one more. Game so from
the player's perspective of the organizational. Perspective as a, manager
they have to see the same guy walk in the
door the next day doing the same things that he's
(45:17):
done as though we're two and zero or three in
one going to this moment and the player's, perspective the
only choice you have is to be. Strong we talked
about this one of the talking points going to the
playoffs with my. Guys that would tell them something bad's
going to. Happen something bad we're not, expected we don't
like it's going to. Happen how we react to that's
going to make the. Difference and they're at that point right.
(45:39):
Now that's the inflection. Point right, now how are we
going to react to this bad? Moment that's going to
be the. Separator so the only choice they have is
to be, strong and they got to.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Be good Stuff. Joe we'll see you next time on
The book Of. Joe Thanks.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Tommy The book Of joe podcast is a production Of.
iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeart, radio is it The iHeartRadio,
App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Podcasts
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