The Book of Joe: Nationals Changes, All-Star Prep, and First Half Notables

Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci focus on another change in MLB with the Nationals moving on from manager Dave Martinez and GM Mike Rizzo.  Joe weighs in on the moves and what's next in Washington. How is Aaron Boone preparing to manage the AL All-Star team?  Joe talks about making the lineup and picking his pitchers.  With the All-Star game around the corner, Tom delivers the Top 5 storylines of the season!

The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.  

#fsr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey thereon, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast
with Me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Unfortunately, we have to start with.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Another manager being fired, and of course it's David Martinez
from the Washington Nationals and as well the president and
GM Mike Rizzo and Joe. I need to point this
out as much as I don't like to do it,
but have you noticed a pattern with these people who
are losing their jobs this year?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
I have really solid, solidly connected to all of these
people I am, and it does it's just tough to watch.
I mean, I don't like when anybody loses their job
in anything, right, but when you have this kind of
a connection with these different people and they end up
getting fired, let go, whatever it is, it's tough to
deal with for me internally. I mean, I think a

(01:08):
lot of these people and again things happen where you know,
we've all been hired to be fired that kind of stuff.
But you know, this situation here, even talked about it
yesterday a MLB. I I'd like to know a little
bit more about it when it gets down to it.
At the end of the day, we have dissected this
where a lot of times the manager gets too much
blame and not enough the front office, and Riz has

(01:29):
done a great job. I mean, the group that they
have there right now is pretty impressive. They just haven't
gotten to that level yet that everybody thinks they can be.
But they will and so then the manager has to
eat it. And I really think that. I'm curious if,
in fact, Riz did not want to do it, and
that's why he just said I'm out too. I'm just
curious about that because I think they're I think that

(01:50):
could be part of it. So don't like to see it,
good friends, It just kind of stinks.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, just to review for our audience, I think it
began with Derek Shelton the Pittsburgh Pirates and he was
was he your hitting coach in Tampa?

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, Tampa Tampa hitting coach late up to twenty ten
or so.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
After that, yes, yeah, And then of course Buddy Black
with the Colorado Rockies. You were part of that great
angel staff with Buddy Black. You guys go way back then.
The next manager fired is Brandon Hyde Baltimore Orioles.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Who was part of your staff. With the Chicago Cubs yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
And then we have both Davey Martinez and Mike Rizzo.
David Martinez, of course, also one of your coaches. I
think you first brought it back to baseball with the Rays,
correct after he was done playing.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah. When I got the job with the Rays, I
wanted to incorporate a lot of the former Devil Rays
Rays into the situation. I love the tradition of former
players being part of it. I had that a bit
with the Angels. I thought you Amels had a great alumni,
and I want to even though the Devil Rays did
not have this wonderful alumni. I wanted to pick and

(03:03):
choose among the group. So I wanted Bogsy out there,
I wanted Crime Dog out there, but I really wanted
Davy out there because I really felt that Davey Martinez
pitomized the way the game should have been played. I
saw him a lot with the White Sox when I
coached against him, so that was it. I didn't really
know Davy before that at all, so I had him
come on out. At first, he was a little bit reticent,

(03:25):
you know, family guy and all that stuff, and then
eventually talked him into it, So yeah, all of it.
It stings. Listen, we all like we just brought it
up and we all know this is going to happen
to all of us at some point. But when you're
this closely attached to these people, you've been watching it
from a distance, it just it never sets well.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
And then Mike Rizza, of course played for you. That
was your first managing gig.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
That was actually this, Yes, it was the year before
I was in Idaho Falls. That was my first year.
In nineteen eighty one eighty two, go to Salem for
the Salem Angels. We win the Northwest League championship. We
had a thirty four and thirty six record. I didn't
even try to win the last game to make it
five because they wanted to save my pitching. Was that
we were already in with thirty four and thirty six
thirty five, and riz was part of that group. Rizz

(04:12):
was kind of utility player, pugilistic, a fighter even at
that time. He started a great fight at home at
Chameka the field and Salem versus the I think was
the Ben Phillies play at the plate, and honestly it
ended up with both teams up against the backstop, you know,
with this was not a beautiful baseball stadium, was a

(04:32):
junior college field. But nevertheless, a really good guys pressed
up against the back of the backstop. There a lot
going on and one of those things that kind of
galvanized as a group. And riz was always very funny, vocal,
played hard. His daddy was a scout. His dad was
a scout for the for many years, a major league
scout for variety of different teams, and he was connected

(04:53):
with Nick Camsic who signed me. Nicky was a legendary
Chicago scout, so Rizz was part of that tree. So
I've always had this strong affection for Michael two. So
again again a lot of this stuff. There are two
really good baseball folks, and when you do something like this,
I know the record isn't good right now, I get it.
But in a situation where you're trying to recoup and

(05:15):
rebuild whatever, I think, patience is required. And I know
these two guys would have eventually gotten the back to
where everybody expects them to be. But it's unfortunate that
people are out of patience sometime.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Well we'll get into in a minute that that tree
you're talking about, and whether there was any more limbs
left when you talk about the old scouting and player
development tree. I agree with you, Joe, there's probably a
lot more behind the scenes here, and we'll get into
some of those reasons that may be in play here.
But I did get in touch with Riz briefly by texts,

(05:47):
and here's what he told me. I had a great run.
Proud of what we accomplished here. Goal was to lead
a franchise to greatness with honesty, integrity, and professionalism. I
feel we did that. The sun will come up again.
That sound like Riz one.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Hundred percent and honesty, honesty, integrity, and what was the
other one of them?

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Sorry, professionalism?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think that kind of to me, that
indicates is not willing to wanting to bend or willing
to bend to maybe some other methods that people wanted
him to employ. Riz is a blunt object. He's straightforward.
There's no sugarcoating anything, with which I love. I love
those guys. I hate exec you talk. He does not

(06:31):
know how to do that. So yeah, there's there's a
lot more that lies really below the surface here.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well, speaking of executive talk, we didn't get much from
Mark Lerner, the National's owner, to explain the reasons for
this move.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
He did put out a statement.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
And briefly, I'll just quote from that statement that he
decided a fresh approach and new energy is the best
course of action for moving forward. Anytime you hear the
phrase moving forward, run there is no moving backward. Time

(07:07):
does not stand still and it doesn't go back. There's
no need to say moving forward. Life time perpetually move forward.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
So this is just execut you speak.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
I do think there's something in play here, Joe in
that both Dave Martinez and Mike Rizzo had an option
in their contracts, and the option had to be picked
up by some point in the middle of this month,
possibly at the All Star break. So ownership is looking
at two people. Maybe they're not sure of it. The

(07:40):
Nationals have had six straight losing seasons so far concluding
this year, and had a really tough month of June,
which happens even to good teams.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I just asked the New York Yankees.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
And they're coming up on a sort of a deadline
here where they decide whether the twenty twenty six options
on the manager and the president of Baseball OPS should
be picked up.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
And if you decide at.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
That point, well we're not sure and we probably are
not going to pick it up, you might as well
get rid of them.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's the way I look at it now.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I don't know why you would negotiate that end to
have an option mid year, but apparently it's not that unusual.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I know a lot of guys Joe, the managers.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
And I'm assuming president of Baseball OPS don't like going
into the possibility of last year of a contract. I mean,
I know you did it with the Cubs, but you
know this could sort of guards against it, but it
also creates a pushpoint for ownership when it comes to
whether you want to bring that person back next year
before the this year is over with. What are your

(08:39):
thoughts on the option here in the middle of July
for both the manager and the and the president of
baseball opis.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, I didn't realize that that is really highly unusual.
But I also think it blends or bleeds into the
point that risk possibly was asked to get let Davy
go and he said he did not want to do
it because I think they could have easily they be
in the ownership could have seen that if they let
the manager go, they could at least pick up bridginess

(09:06):
contract based on his history, like you know, drafting and
everything he's done there. And maybe they haven't been so
good lately, but you look at the talent on the field,
how could you argue with that that kind of stuff.
So they could have actually parceled that out and thought
maybe he was doing, according to them their jaw, his
job and that Davy may have fallen a little bit
short for them. And I also just want to interject this.
A couple of weeks ago, was it that Davy came

(09:26):
out and defended his coaching staff, And remember the and
the players were slightly offended. And I could easily see
some of these younger players as somebody somehow getting the
year of this ownership group somewhat one way or another.
And eventually I think this bled into it somehow. Also
where that's where the new voice, lack of communication, they

(09:49):
want however they want to phrase it, you know, new road,
new voices, new leadership situation. I think that I think
that bled into there somehow, and eventually somebody got wind
of this or had wind of it, and then extrapolated
from there so I really believe I didn't realize about
the option stuff, which I've not heard about in the
middle of year. I really believe that they would have

(10:10):
picked up Riz and Riz me and the guy that
he is and where he's from and the run that
he's had, and you can see the writing on the
wall that you know, maybe this isn't the right place
for him anyway. So there's a lot to unpack, like
you're suggesting right there. So unusual, yes, absolutely unusual options
in the middle of the year. But I'm betting that
Riz was asked to let him go, and Riz was

(10:31):
going to be retained, and he said, I don't want that.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, it could definitely be a possibility, and I may
go in a different direction here. I do know this, Joe,
that when they the word came out that they were
making the changes here, it must have happened so hurriedly.
The Nationals did not immediately announce a replacement for Davey Martinez.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I found that to be fascinating.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Man, this should be a decision that you chew on
for a while, and anytime you change managers, you better
have what you believe to be a better option, and
you shouldn't have to sleep, monitor or do some more
research on it. Will you make a decision and you
cut that cord? You better have an answer now. They
did name Miguel Cairo the bench coach, which makes sense.
You're making a change in the middle of the season.

(11:14):
He knows the personnel there, you know, he knows the
landscape that he can work with the front office. There's
nothing new, there's no change that needs to be made
in terms of communication. But that struck me as odd
that someone wasn't named immediately.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Did you feel the same way.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Joe, Yes, absolutely, you know, I saw it pop up
and I'm looking, Okay, who's the guy, who's the guy?
Who's the guy? And I've always been amazed at that.
I've often thought being in a position of possibly, you know,
being a GM or whatever leadership situation over the entire organization,
don't you constantly think of, like, who's going to be replace
you at some point in the event somebody leaves that

(11:50):
you don't like the job, performance, whatever, You start making
your lists. And I got to know, like days in advance,
I don't think I just decided woke up this morning
and all of a sudden decided to do this. So
you're you're mulling over this days in advance, and you
have to decide, okay, we do do this? Did the
right after you make that announcement, the following announcement occurs,
this is what we're going to do to short up

(12:11):
right now because the team, obviously it's like a white
flag situation. I think I know Miguel. Miguel is wonderful,
and him and Dave you were really tight. That's part
of it too, Davy and him really tight. And I
guess Hickey was retained also, I would imagine the rest
of the coaches were staying. Is that true.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
That's so far that we have not heard any other
coaching changes now, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
So yeah, you got to know in advance what you
want to do. And that's again if Riz isn't there
to know what to do, because Riz says I'm out. Also,
he was the guy that would have had I think
of more definitive we're going to do this now. Okay,
if Davy's out, we're going to do this. I'd like
to do this whatever. They're pretty much without a rudder
right now, so it's going to take a little bit

(12:53):
of time for them to catch up. I think they
set themselves back a bit. Oh listen, I want in
the room. I don't know, and there's always reasons to
do different things, and maybe I don't know. Maybe it
was the right thing to do, but from a distant
I just don't see it. And again, yes, I agree
with you one thousand percent that you should know what's
going to happen next, if, in fact, do you chose
to go in this direction as an ownership group.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
A couple of things about their direction.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
First of all, we know that, of course, they won
the World Series in twenty nineteen. They started nineteen and
thirty one, and David Martinez did a great job managing
that team. Mike Rizzard did a great job reinventing that
bullpen on the fly because it was terrible in the
first couple of months of the season. They win the
World Series in Washington, DC, toast of the town. It

(13:37):
seems like ages ago now. COVID definitely hurt them because
they didn't have the chance to get.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
The spoils of victory, if you.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Will, in terms of attendance boost and revenue boost that
next year. They'd losing record the next year. But it
was such a weird year they were twenty six and
thirty four, and that kind of spiraled them in the
wrong way. It wound up having the trade guys like
surez Er, Turner, Soto, and they still haven't really come
out of it. Although the Soto trade with San Diego
now is used as a model that Mike Rizzo made

(14:05):
as to getting top value when you do have to
trade a star player. He certainly has that at the
top of his resume. And what he did not do
this year, I believe Joe Is didn't really solve the
bullpen issue. And it's a poor defensive team and that's
not necessarily ready to payroll overall payroll. Yeah, I mean

(14:25):
the pay when the payroll in twenty nineteen when the
that's one of the World Series was two hundred and
three million dollars. The past four years they've been between
ninety two and one hundred and thirty two million dollars.
They've gone way backward in terms of payroll. So he's
had a lot, had a lot less to work with.
But what he has not done is solved the defense
and the bullpen, which is not necessarily related to high payrolls.

(14:49):
Milwaukee probably the best example of that and they just
were not playing good baseball in the month of June.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
So there were pieces there, but just not enough of them.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Your take on the Nationals, Joe, and what you see
of what they've become here as they try to get
themselves back to contention.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, I mean from twenty nineteen to present that is
a while. I mean regarding not getting even back to
five hundred. But when you talk about the disparity in
the payrolls between then and now, that's kind of suspicious
to me. They have the trade for Soto spectacular and
the guys that they got in returned Woods in particular.
I love Gore too. I mean, all these guys are

(15:25):
really very They're gonna they're all all star caliber already,
great return defensively. I haven't watched them enough to know
where their pitfalls are with that, where their shortcomings are.
But I mean, when you have this kind of core
group and if you permit it, I think to spend
more money. And again I not being as closely as
you tied to it as I needed to be to

(15:46):
meet an intelligent commentary, but it just sounds like with
that disparity and the money spent and it's being spent
right now. Obviously there's something from top to bottom. Do
you trust the fact that risk and pull some rabbits
out of the hat and still do what he did
in twenty nineteen? Why did you back off so heavily,
Like you just suggest that the market after the winning

(16:07):
the World Series with twenty twenty popping up, Could it
be that injurious even to this point. I don't know.
It's just there's so many problems to be conjectured upon
here that you really don't know or understand. I like
the group now. I think I think given a little
bit more time, they're gonna really round out to something
very nice. I think they quite frankly, the fact that
the Marlins are doing so well so quickly, things like that,

(16:30):
You know, I could see owners that really talk to
their buddies, they're drinking buddies, and all of a sudden
they get their information and from different sources other than
just relying on the people in charge. Probably were impacted
by that somehow. Look at how much they're spending the Marlins,
and you're why can't we do the same thing here?
Look at the trade with soda. All the great players
we got back, so those kind of comps are are made,

(16:51):
but not really understanding that. Just give it a little
bit more time. You never really understand and realize sometimes
how close you are to turning a corner if in
fact you give up. So I just don't know enough.
But that's what my overall perspective.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I like your point, Joe, what you said there about
when these owners look around, right, and you mentioned the Marlins,
I mentioned the Brewers. It's kind of like you see
that shiny new car in the driveway next door, and
you're like, huh, I think I want one of those.
And I think that's a little bit of what's behind
the scenes here with the Nationals as well. Let's face it,
Davey Martinez and Mike Rizzo are more older school, and

(17:26):
I hate to divide things into just old school and
new school.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
It's obviously much more nuanced than that, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
And Mike was proud of building up the analytics department
in Washington. It wasn't like he was just going based
on scouts recommendations. Nobody does that anymore. In fact, his
replacement now, Mike de Bartolow, was the guy that he
hired and really has an analytics background, and that's.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
What I think is happening here, Joe.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
It reminds me of when the book Moneyball came out,
and I know a lot of owners then took that
book gave it, and I know Fred Wilpond did this
with the Mets, gave it to the general managers and
said are we doing this? You know, it was something
shiny and new, and they didn't know whether it worked
or not. And Oakland hadn't won anything, but it sounded interesting,

(18:10):
and not to say you shouldn't pursue it, but it
really spread very quickly around the game, and I could
see that happening here. Mike de Bartolow, the guy he hired,
actually all the way back in twenty twelve. He started
out as a baseball ops intern there and just worked
his way up to be one of Mike's assistants there
in Washington. Where did he come from? He went to

(18:32):
Tufts he with an econ degree. He went to Columbia
Business School with a masters, and then he took a
job at something called the equity research firm I'm sorry,
the equity research department of Northern Pines Capital, LLC, where
he worked directly with the co portfolio managers of long

(18:53):
short equity focused on hedge funds, so that was his
background to get into baseball, and I think I see
a lot of that happening, Joe, where the evaluations being made.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Again, the game is a blend.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Let's not simplify oversimplify things there, but the background originally
comes more from the business world than the baseball world,
and that's where the blending begins.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Well, and I'm looking at records today because it ties
into like today's quote. But I don't evenly understand all
of this. I just wrote it down and I'm just
trying to piece it together. But as of right now,
there's fourteen teams under five hundred, and there's only there's
only seven teams between one and nine games over five hundred.

(19:36):
I don't know if that's a norm from previous series.
It just seems kind of low to me that you
have that many under and there's just a couple that
are basically just barely over five hundred to go in
that group. Also, so again, so when you're starting to
evaluate new school from old school, so is there a
parody involvement with the new school approach? Everybody wants to
be the same, same sheet of music, same kind of players,

(19:58):
et cetera, et cetera, And all of a sudden you
get this very small elite group group there's ten ten
plus over five hundred. I got eight teams, and so
I always by this time, I always worked in increments
of five. You wanted to get five over, then ten over,
et cetera, like you got the Detroit. Detroit obviously is
really the trend set of with twenty four right now,

(20:20):
and there's like Houston almost there nineteen, et cetera. There's
there's like this small group that are into that level
and everybody else is fairly over five hundred or under.
And so what does that mean regarding systems being implemented
and employed again the NFL for years under Roselle, they
wanted this parody system, right, so maybe maybe that's what

(20:41):
they want. They did. There's a couple of super teams,
guys that guests have spent some money, but some that
have not really like you already mentioned the Brewers. But
so are we the system that we're building right here?
Is it about parody and average mediocrity or is this
system really built to last and create a dynastic kind

(21:03):
of a situation.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
My answer would be you build teams now to win
about eighty six games. Yeah, because the great equalizer is
the postseason now the extra wildcard. So shooting for greatness
not necessarily rewarded the way it used to be in
the past, right where you had to build ninety plus
win team. It's just where the game is at now,
and it doesn't take much to move a team from

(21:25):
say seventy eight wins to eighty six wins. And guys
think you can do that on the margins, and I
think a lot of cases you can. And if you
play five hundred baseball for four months, you're in the
thick of the race. So the stakes in terms of,
you know, the bar to get into the postseason, it's
definitely lower. We all know that, and I think that
has spread kind of thinking around that. Let's just let's

(21:47):
be okay, let's make sure that you know, for most cases,
the key is don't have your team out of the
race after by the time the school lets out, when
attendance generally begins to pick up in the summer months.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
That's the worst thing in the world. That's what happened
to Baltimore.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
You want to start selling tickets, as you know, people
get excited about the summer and to get excited, just
have a team around five hundred a.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Race to mediocrity. And that's what I'm saying. So when
you when you start talking between old school, news school,
or just let's talk about being in school. For me,
that would be the ability to utilize everything available to me,
all the methods, all my experience, and all the old
tried and truths and combine them with what's what's happening now,
What's what's what's the church of happening now, what's what's

(22:27):
what's the new stuff that I can incorporate to try
to see if I can actually build on all the
wonderful foundation that I've built for myself. I'm not talking
about me the group in general, So I don't know.
Everything's everything's designed to be mediocre, like you said, are
slightly above mediocre and that and if we if we
actually hit it, if everything goes right, then then we're

(22:50):
willing to take the next step. Whatever I I don't get.
And again, I think we've talked about this the middle
class in baseball, and you pointed out that maybe that's
not the case of the situation, but there is there's
a young guy that really have not spent a lot
of time in the minor leagues. They're really great athletes,
but they when it comes down to their baseball acumen,
it's very it's limited, and the mistakes are made. And

(23:13):
Washington has probably forced Skystree to get to the big
leagues to indicate listen, yeah, there's all these young guys
that we require or we have here. They are so
that that indicates that it was good because they're not
spending time in Double A, Triple A learning stuff actually
on a major league level. And that's why you see
all of this choreographed extra work before games, because this
is the stuff that normally occurs on a minor league level.

(23:35):
It's instructional leagues, spring trainings, but now you're seeing it
at three o'clock on a major league diamond near you.
And to me, that least the fatigue and overwork for
not only the players, the coaches, the training staff, et cetera.
And I think that's part of mediocrity. So anyway, I
could go on and on, and I have to write
it all out to really try to bring it all together.

(23:56):
But I think these are the kind of things that
are not discussed, and I think they're a part of
when you say a team is fundamentally not good, they're
defense lacking, whatever, it's because of a rush job here
and they have not had an opportunity to fully develop
on the vine.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, that's a lot on the Nationals, but there is
a lot there to unpack. Just to sum up, I
do think that Davies comments played a role in this
when he said it's never on the coaching. I think
the response of players internally, yeah, and the way it
played externally, even though I thought it was overplayed, but
it's still you know, it's the world we live in now.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
That was a factor.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
The fact that they had a terrible month of June
and they're catching their defense, their bullpen have really not progressed,
and that can make a team look bad. And again
I think there is a situation here where the Nationals
did not invest in this team. Let's face it, the
Lerner family was exploring a sale of the team and
they didn't think the team was ready to start supplementing

(24:51):
the core group that they had, and you know, they
had paid a price with a lack of investment in
talent at the major league level at least, and then
moving the team forward, and I think that's an easy
thing for an owner to do. When you look around,
you say, maybe we're a little bit behind. We need
new voices. It does sound like execut you speak, but
I think here it may apply. That's a lot on

(25:12):
the national So let's move on, Joe, because after this
quick break, I want to talk to you about managing
the All Star Game weeks. The All Star Game coming
up next week, and I had a quick chat with
Aaron Boone about his task next week, and I want
to get your take.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
You've done it before, managing the All Star Game.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
What's it like. We'll talk about that right after this.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. All Star Game
in Atlanta coming up next week. And it's funny Joe's

(25:52):
talking to Aaron Boone the other day, and you know
the prep work that goes into managing that All Star Game.
He said he hadn't quite gotten into the weeds yet,
but he said immediately after the starters.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Were announced, he started playing around with lineups.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
He said, I'm not sure everything to let me use
my lineup, but it was fun kind of playing with
the names and where guys would hit. You've done it before, Joe,
what's it like managing the All Star Game.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Well, there's two different All Star games, and one that
you have to win in the one that you're just
there showing up. I mean, that's true. I much preferred
to win. I did. I liked that game, and it's
a separator from the rest of professional sports for the
games that become skills competitions or just the farce. Quite frankly, so,
I'm concerned that this game is eventually going to be

(26:37):
to devolve into a skills competition. I hope not, but
I think if you really put the carrot at the
end of it to win home field advantage. I liked it.
I do like it. I like every time you play
a game that it means something Otherwise it's reduced to
an exhibition game, i e. Spring Training. Now, I know
for years that's the way it was. I get it.
But there was solid National League versus an American League

(26:59):
kind of rivalry going on it. It had a different
tone and even right down to the fan base. I mean,
I was a National League guy back in the day,
Cardinals and all that stuff, and I wanted the National
League to win and I rooted for them, and it
was a big deal. But the National League won regardless
if it was attached to a home field advantage. So
there's a difference with that, And and then on top

(27:20):
of that, there was a difference when you had to
win the game and you're doing it with a national
league rules at that time, that was a complicated day.
I sat a long time. The game was in Saint
Louis in two thousand and nine, so the National League
rules applied two thousand and three. I was the bench
coach with Sosh. That was that was the first time
he counted those where American league rules applied two different

(27:40):
games again and for me, the day before the game
in Saint Louis, I walked around the outfield before on
the workout day, and I went to every relief pitcher
and told them what game with inning they were going
to pitch in. And after the game, I get approached
by Joe Garagioel and somebody else I remember who I's
saying that the commissioner wants me to start have my
pitcher a holiday pitch twoinings and not just one. And
then I had to go out and tell twe days

(28:02):
that he was not going to pitch the next day
unless something would happen because I had to test subtract
one relief pitcher because now I have to go tunings
with my starter, so that all this stuff's going on,
and then you have to make replacements when somebody gets hurt,
and that could really cause injury too. But I did
learn if you're the manager and replacement thing pops up
where you have to replace a player because he can't

(28:24):
make it, either injury, whatever withdrawn. If you got a
guy worthy on your own team, you better do it
because otherwise that can cause a rip if in fact,
you don't do that within the group, and then on
top of that, you're still gonna upset somebody. Because it
came to the situation with Sean Figgins, I thought versus
Ian Kinsler, and I took Figgy because I thought at

(28:44):
that time, and it was no disrespect to Kinsler, but
Figgy was a super utility guy, and this is a
game that you have to win so you can extra
innings move people around. I thought Figure could go a
lot of different places, so that was the reason why
I did that. And finally in that game, I was
holding back Wakefield in Saint Louis so that I had
a knuckleball pitcher. If this game did in fact go
extra innings, they did not have to worry about all

(29:07):
the guys I used before because Wakefield could have pitched
deeply into that game. And regarding the lineup, I was
not told what to do with the lineup. I was
able to make my own lineup. There was a lot
I was able to do on my own, right down
to how you addressed your players before the game. And
Obama walks in the door and he walks around in
Saint Louis and greets everybody. A lot going on, man,
I'm telling you that the way that thing set up,

(29:29):
it was like when eventually I learned that two days
or two and a half days of All Star stuff
was the equivalent almost of a week of stuff at
the World Series. Wow.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Let me ask you this, Joe, because I'm curious when
you get the best players in the world together, and
I know, as a manager you see a lot of them.
Some of them you know because they played for you,
or you know them through other ways. But you're seeing
some of the best players in the world up close,
really for the first time, right around the batting cage
in the clubhouse. That kind of thing anything jump out
at you. I just remember a story where Greg Mannix

(30:03):
told me that Kevin Brown was throwing a side session
during the All Star break and Maddox wanted to go
watch him throw his side session, and he was impressed
with how loud his two seamer was. This seams cutting
through the air. You know, it's interesting when you get
the best players in the world together. Did you have
any moments like that being up close to some of
these players? What they did was batting cage, clubhouse whatever it.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Was, clubhouse. Okay, I'm two thousand and three, I was
the bench coach. Two thousand and nine, I'm the manager.
It's like I just mentioned, you have to you know,
you're gonna address the team, and I remember sitting in
Saint Louis. I'm standing in Saint Louis in the clubhouse.
All the guys are gathered around any Derek sitting right
in front of me, Jeter and some of the other
Yankees are sitting right there, and I'm looking around the

(30:46):
room and it's pretty impressive. Marion Rivera's on that team,
Papo Bond's on that team, Joe Nathan's on that team.
Like I said, Holliday's your starting pitcher. You know, you
look at today's group and everybody's you know, really complimentary
of the group today and athletically how wonderful it is.
But just look at that team. Carl Crawford was my guide,
like eight or nine rays on that team, and then

(31:07):
the coaches and everybody else that wants to sit in
that room. And I remember the one thing I started with, gentlemen,
I am standing in front of the best baseball players
in Major League Baseball, which means you are the best
baseball players in the world. Number one, number two. I
want you to understand what kind of a daunting experience
this actually is for me. And I think that's pretty

(31:29):
darn close to how I began. And then you get
in the flow of it and you just go. But
you know, that's a little nerve racking prior to getting
up there, taking that big breath and throwing it out
there for the first time, because you are these guys
you've seen I'm still a relatively young major league manager.
It was only my what that was the third year
in existence for the Rais, so this was going into
my fourth year. But it is it's a daunting experience.

(31:53):
Very respectful of everybody there, and yes, that's that's what
I took from in the last thing was walking Actually,
you know that was from the Chicago I told myself,
looking back from the team picture in center field, don't
let this hurry up on you. Slow this whole thing down,
don't miss a moment of this. I remember taking a
mental photograph of the clouds behind the stands at Comiski

(32:16):
Park whatever it was called at that time. That was
really important. So to slow it down and to understand
I'm talking to the best baseball players in the world.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
How about the starting pitchers, Joe? Was that totally your call?

Speaker 1 (32:29):
And I know you're limited in terms of you know
who's available, but among those who are available, yep.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Any input from the league.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
No, there wasn't. I picked Calladay, I know. I think
Rinky was the other guy that other people wanted me
to do. I think that was was that two thousand
and nine. I'm pretty sure it was, because I'm getting
confused with twenty seventeen. That was a Sureser. I started
Sureser in Miami, But I don't remember any interference other

(32:57):
than I had announced that Holliday was only going to
pitch one Any Charlie Manuel announced their starter was going
to pitch two, and the commissioner at that time, Sealy,
was a little bit nervous about not having enough people
to conclude the game if in fact the win extra innings.
And that's why I said, listen, I'm saving Wakefield. He
can go all night for extra innings. And you know,

(33:18):
my biggest problem with that was who's going to catch him? Yeah,
because by that time I can't remember who the catcher
would be that was left, but he was not. Nathan
was on that team, and somebody else was on that team, Oh, Martinez, Victor,
Victor was there, And so I was Who's going to
catch him? That was my biggest concern if it did
go xtraining, Who's gonna catch Wakefield?

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Interesting?

Speaker 1 (33:39):
All right, now, I'm gonna make you choose the starting
pitchers for this year. First, let's start with the National
League and you're Dave Roberts, and to me, it comes
down to Paul skeins Uh and Zach Wheeler and Paul
skeins the only shot of this is amazing, his second
year in the big league, starting his second All Star
game he started last year. And then you've got Zach

(33:59):
Wheeler who to me is just been the best pitcher
in baseball, who seems to be the runner up to
the Cy Young Award, or you know in this case
that he's never started an All Star Game. Where would
you go between Skenes and Wheeler? If you're Dave Roberts,
I go Wheeler.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
That's like Halladay versus Grankie pretty much. You know, the
guy that the established veteran having a wonderful year versus
the new guy coming up on the block. I definitely
would have gone Wheeler. I'm listen. I've been a Wheeler
fan for a while. I think we've talked about it.
When I was with the Angels and it was Garrett
Cole's year to be recruited this free agent year, and
I thought that we should sign Wheeler first. If we

(34:38):
could sign Wheeler, that might convince Cole to think that
the Angels are really trying to win out here. So
although at that time, Billy Eppler didn't feel that Wheeler
would ever want to go to the West Coast, and
as I met the family, I figured I felt the
same way. But I thought he would be the bait
that somehow would attract the better pitchers to come out West.
I listened when he was there with the Grom with

(35:00):
the Mets. There was not a whole lot of difference
between these two guys. I mean there was a little
injury factor back then. With Wheeler, he's really straightened it out.
De Grom has not as much. But these two guys
will learned. De Grom, for me, had the easiest gas
I've seen. It's just such an easy wind up and
the ball just jumps out of their hands. So I've
been I've been a fan for a long long time.

(35:22):
I'm going Wheeler. All right.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Now, I'm gonna make you you sit in the chair
of Aaron Boone. And this is a little bit of
the uh Sean Figgins Ian Kinsler, Yeah, it is right.
I mean, you've got Aaron Boone, He's got Max Freed,
deserving All Stars. He's been his stopper all year. Anytime
the Yankees have a losing streak, he gives the ball
to Freed. Yankees win. The All Star Game is in Atlanta,

(35:44):
Max Freed is going back to Atlanta. You're the manager
of Max Freed. Are you going to give him the ball?
Or are you going to look him in the eye
and say, you know what I can't do this. I'm
going to give the ball to Trek Scooball, Garrett Crochet,
Hunter Brown, a lot of good options in the American League.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
So where do you go if you're Aaron Boone?

Speaker 3 (36:04):
At first of all, you got to check out the
last day they're going to pitch prior to the All
Star break, and you hope that those other guys are
pitching on Sunday and make and open it up for
Freed right there. I don't know Freed well enough. He
seems like he's a really well adjusted guy. And I
don't know that if Boone shows somebody else that it
would really impact a relationship there. I don't know that

(36:27):
that would be my concern. I'm just just being honest
with you right here, because I learned that. I learned
it can impact relationships. It depends on the kind of
like the ego in a sense of the player involved,
and if he is kind of slighted by the fact
that you chose somebody on another team to do this,
that's going to be part of the evaluation, or you

(36:48):
might say otherwise, like it's got to be totally sterile
and I'm just going to do it based on who
I think is the most worthy. But I think under
these circumstances, Boonie a little bit more difficult. Man. It's
easy to say that that Freed can do it. I mean,
he said a wonderful year. I'm a big schoolbl guy.
Uh primarily I you know that guy there and Crochet whatever.

(37:10):
I think Schoobles deserves it. If you ask, you know,
gun into my head, I go with Schooble. But under
the circumstances, Booney has to give this, uh serious consideration
and really has to understand and know Freed and how
how he would react to it as a.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Slight Yeah, I'm with you. I think I think schoolble
is the option here. I think you if you're Aaron Boone,
it's you have that conversation with Max Freed. I'm you know,
my history with Max tells me he would be good
with it. I mean if he if he is this
first pitcher in after after school ball, you know, great.
But I think you just have to reward Schooble for

(37:46):
what he's done these last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
So we'll see.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
It's always an interesting call, and it does matter. It's
a big feather, you know that Joe for a guy
to start the All Star Game. It's one thing being
named in all starts another thing to start the game.
So it'd be a great matchup Wheeler against Schoolble and
neither one is going to two innings this time, Joe, Right.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, there's no need to now. Yeah, I back in
the day, they would they throw a three four innings sometimes, right,
I mean it's so yeah, I mean the way things
have more. Yeah, either both of them, I think deservative
for me, you know, I'm I'm I'm choosing one on
each side. I would go Wheeler versus School That would
be my choice.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Hey, we're gonna take a quick break when we get back.
I want to run quickly through what I believe are
the five biggest storylines of the first half of the
baseball season. And I want to see if Joe agrees
or he's got something else he wants to add five
biggest stories of the first half coming up right after this,

(38:53):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. And all right, Joe,
I promised you my top five halfway stories through this season.
I'll start with number five and work my way down,
and then I'll have you respond to these. I go
with major market contenders. A good year for baseball tendance
is up. Ratings are up. A big part of that
is of the top ten teams in playoff position right now,

(39:16):
seven of those come from the top seven North American
markets when you go by population figures Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs, Astros,
Blue Jays, Phillies. That's number five. That sets up a
great possibility to postseason. And we're coming off Yankees Dodgers
in the World Series. And you saw what that those
ratings were. Like, we all love Cinderella stories, but we

(39:38):
love most the tried and true, the big market teams.
Number four, we're on a pace for a record number
of shutouts. I'm not sure why this is happening, but shutouts.
And listen, only eight of them have been thrown by
an individual pitcher, so we're talking about combined shutouts as well.
Would break the record that has held up since nineteen twelve.

(39:59):
Number three, the Tigers are the best team in the
American League. They might be the best team in baseball.
You know, I'd still go with a healthy Dodgers team,
but we haven't really seen that Dodgers team. So you've
got the Tigers. Over the last one hundred and sixty
two games. They're one hundred and sixty two, so this
is no fluke what they did at the end of
last year. Their fifth and runs per game third in

(40:19):
the RA I'm not even sure that they have a
need to address the deadline. They're so deep and so good.
Number two the Cubs. Man, this is a fun team
to watch.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Man.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
They started fifty one and thirty five for the first
time since you're nineteen or your twenty sixteen World Championship team, Joe.
They reached one hundred homers and one hundred steals in
eighty four games. Only two teams ever got there faster,
ninety five Reds and the two thousand and nine Rays.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
And finally, Number one story for me.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Three players are getting the All Star break with thirty
home runs. Cal Raley, Aaron Judge, and sho Hey Otani.
Raley is amazing the most. He's the biggest breakout story
of this year. And Judge and Otani, they're like the
Magic and Larry Bird of baseball. They're the standard bearers
of this sport. We're looking at all time greats. They're

(41:10):
odds on favorite to win the MVP again, and if
that happens, the two of them will have won seven
of the last ten MVPs, which reminds me of Magic
and Bird and one six of seven in the eighties.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
So that's my list of the top five. Joe.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
You can agree with some, none, or add whatever you
would like to what strikes here is the biggest stories
of twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Halfway through I could ever top your research. I mean
it is all good stuff. First of all with the
big markets. I mean I'm guilty of that too. I'm
just like in the morning, I'll sit with my iPad
and I'll go through the MLB videos and most of
the time I will just I do gravitate to these
teams that were done on that list, and I want
to see what they don't want to see. With THEMESA

(41:57):
have done on the cobs, I think are very gritty,
you know, PCA and or really turn that whole program
around right there. But you're right, Detroit, Houston, Toronto, all
these teams, those are my first go to. Now among
the group that isn't like that, I think the Angels
are kind of interesting right now. I love what jo
Adell's doing. I love netto the Shortstop. I think he's

(42:20):
really a good player. These guys are playing with GrITT
and Hart every night, and so are the Marlins of
all things. So I got these like couple groups that
I'm following because I like players on their teams and
I think they're they're kind of interesting. These teams. To
play five hundred would be a good story. I'm not
expecting them to be ten over, but even to play

(42:40):
a five hundred level would be bully for these guys.
But yes, the big markets do draw, they shout outs.
I haven't been paying attention to that as much. I
didn't realize that, and so I don't have a real
strong comment on that. It's just that, you know, pitchers
have the advantage to today Velocity's up. They don't care
about starters. They keep rolling these guys out of the bullpen.
They're hard to hit. I guess that's not a huge

(43:01):
surprise Tiger's being the back they're they're They're fun to watch,
and I love the the resent, the ascension of hobby reascenting,
getting back to the hobby buys, getting back to the
All Star Game. That really makes me feel pretty darn good.
I like all of that with them, so and of
Scotty Harris being the GM. There're Scotty and I spent

(43:22):
a lot of time together with the Cubbies, and finally
I talked about the Cubbies. But you know the Kyle Rawley.
I mean, yes, you're right A show and Judge are
Bird and Magic, no question. That's a great comp right there.
But Raleigh, I mean, who is he? This stuff? They're
playing each other, The Yankees are playing the Mariners coming
up right now. That's gonna be fun to watch too.
This guy here, we talked about it last week. I

(43:45):
think the fact that he plays that position and he's
doing this offensively, and the guy plays all the time,
and the big dumper, there's the there's so many cool
things about this. For I don't know him, but like
I said, the first time I saw him, I thought
he had extraordinary bat speed. So I have nothing to
argue about here. I think that's a great breakdown of
what's going on right out, and I'm on board.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Let me just run one of those by you again, Joe,
the shutout thing, because you mentioned the pitching. It's so
darn good right when you get a good start from
your starter, and that could be five innings and you
can use your high leverage guys. Man, Just think about
the stuff that hitters are seeing now, right, Yeah, And
I think when you have a game in hand, you
have your high leverage guys, it's hard to score a run.

(44:26):
I think the inverse is true too, though, Joe. I
think when a team gets behind now, teams don't chase
deficits the way they used.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
To, and then the game.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
We see a lot of Major League games deteriorate. Now
you see a lot of position players out there on
the mountain. So that's the flip side of it to
me that I think games are more controllable with the
quality of stuff that pitchers have. I'm talking about shutting
down offenses. And the other side is we see a
lot of games get away as well.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
One thing I'm just I've always been big on and
we've talked about this a lot in the past. I mean,
technique involved. I don't know how much of the nurturing
because we've talked to home run, the home run, the
home end, the home runs, what happens, that's how we
score runs, et cetera. But aren't the Blue Jays, like
really a good contact team. Isn't that one big part
of their DNA right now. They got some pop, yes,
but these guys move to baseball. The guy at third

(45:14):
base right now, Barger, I've been watching a little bit lately.
I like that a lot. I don't like that a
little bit. I like that a lot. And they have others.
They have other guys on that team that really no
namers that kind of like again, they used to work
get maybe three or four times now. But they guys
play with grit, they play hard. They got this look
and again not unlike some of the angel guys I'm seeing.
So I'm just curious about technique involved. The concession too,

(45:39):
that we don't have to just score runs with home runs.
Can we in fact do different things to win games
by moving the baseball, putting it in play, putting guys
in motion. Everybody wants to steal bases. Now there's guy.
I just don't know what the soup asure is, the
batting technique desu is right now, what are the talking about?
I've I've actually heard recently that you know, like, for instance,

(46:02):
boach Man and the Rangers and the previous pitty coach
comes in the office and boach wants to discuss any
with them and the dude comes in and starts rattling
stuff off of his iPad as opposed to internal knowledge
and experience. So what's going on with that? That's part
of it. I'm just curious to know, Like the shutouts,
could they be somewhat avertic? Could it be changed a

(46:25):
bit of different techniques of a different philosophical approaches being
employed to win two to one, three to two, one
to nothing. Sometimes let's say two to one, because I'm
not going to get shut out just by moving the baseball.
Is that even being talked about? I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Well, good news for you that strikeouts are actually down
for a second year in a row. Not by a lot,
but we've at least stemmed the tide of rising strikeouts
every year two years back to back with a strikeout
right going down.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
That's pretty good. So we're on the right path.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
The pitchers still dominate, there's no question, but Joe, you'd
be happy to know that when we look at runs
scored and still on base attempts at especially time of game.
It's very analogous to the mid nineteen eighties, which I
really think was a great time for baseball. We had
a lot of diversity, of style, and it's a good thing.
The baseball has really found this really nice equilibrium, I believe,

(47:20):
with a few more balls in play, but in general
the offense, defense balance, and certainly the action per time
of game. It's a very nice equilibrium that baseball has now.
That does remind me of baseball in the eighties.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
That was my thing. When I got back to the Angels,
had a T shirt made play it like it's nineteen
eighty five. That was it. That's exactly what I had
on the shirt. I passed it out to all the players.
That was my goal and more than more than I Yeah,
I think the superstar of all the changes has been
the clock. I do. I'm watching games and it's so
cool to watch the picture right, get back right on

(47:53):
the mount and here we go. Let's go. That to me,
in and of itself, is the superstar of all the
changes made. I think anything else that you like off
of that is fine, but it's all stams or starts
with the fact that now the guy gets the ball,
gets on a rubber, he throws the ball, and that
to me is the most interesting part of the real change.

(48:16):
I mean, I still don't like the inability to throw
over more than twice. I don't like that. Those are
the kind of things that I don't impact strategy. Ever,
that's what see when it comes down to the clock,
I don't think it impacts strategy. It's packed strategy and
the fact that maybe you got to get in better
shape because you've got to pitch more quickly in between,

(48:37):
maybe something to that effect. But there's no strategical involvement.
Run around second base, Yeah you're messing with my strategy.
Three batter minimum, Yeah, you're messing with my strategies. All
this stuff messes with my strategy. But the clock and
the PitchCom the ability to communicate to pitches technologically with
the little push of a butt, I think that's brilliant.

(48:57):
So those are the things to me that really have
changed the game in a good way that I enjoy.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It is funny in fan polling, one of the things
fans really hate is pickoff throws the first base, and
they still boo them every time a guy throws the
first base, you know, against that stupid.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I'm sorry fans, that's that's that's really not bright.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
But we haven't seen ridiculous numbers of stolen base attempts
I mean, pitchers now do such a better job in
holding the ball and being quicker to home plate that
it's not a free base by any means. Like I said,
the stolen base attempts are exactly the same as what
they were in the in the mid eighties, So at
least in terms of affecting strategy, Joe, it really hasn't

(49:37):
affected gameplay.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Okay, But the thing is also regarding the stolen base,
it's the impact on the body also running that it's
a good lead, it's a it's a real it's a
it's a mental thing to get the good lead. All
the reasons that are necessary, slide and hitting the dirt,
all those things that nobody really considered when they said,
all of a sudden, it's going to impact the game.

(49:59):
In regards to more stolen bases, I think after in
the beginning, when it became like, Okay, we're going to
steal more bases and whatever it hurts, you know, Ricky
Henderson stealing that many bases, Brock Marie Willis, Gosh, those
bodies had to be bruised the whole year. I think
part of guys not wanting to run is the fact
that it's really difficult mentally and physically to do it.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
I love the phrase and the T shirt as well.
Play it like it's nineteen eighty five. But I know,
Joe that you came with something else in terms of
words of wisdom to close out this edition of the
Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
So what do you have this time?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, I mean I've kind of alluded to it earlier,
trying to indicate like all the teams under five hundred
and those barely above five hundred, and this is something
that screams of mediocrity, screams of average, Its screams of concession.
It's okay just to be this as opposed to going
for the ring every year. So I just all intersects.
The fear of being average is the only fear you

(50:55):
need to have. It's almost like being average is okay.
The goals to be averaged, the goals to be five hundred,
and like you said, if in fact we're around that
number and here comes the end of the year with
more people involved in the playoffs, okay, then maybe we're
going to try to do something more diligent in regards
to getting us over the top. But I see a
real to be like the World Series champ on an

(51:15):
annual basis. Like we've talked about before, I rarely hear
in the preseason, you know, our goal is to get
to the last game of the season to win it.
We want we want to go to the World Series. No,
they're very everybody's very cautious and making those claims. Everybody's
being there's a satisfaction in being average. I think there's
a security almost in being average anymore, because in order
to be above average, you got to take risks, chances,

(51:36):
you've got to do things that a lot of other
groups are not willing to try. So the fear of
being average is the only fear you need to have.
And I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
I love that great words of wisdom, and it reminds
me what you just said, Joe about sometimes you hear
teams talk about we want to play meaningful games in September.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Oh god, I want to puke.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Love that one.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
I hate that. I mean I really And then when
we're trying to be five hundred, I you know, when
I first got to the race, that's all I heard
stuff like down and say, really, that's your goal. I mean,
let's set it a little b higher than that. Expectations,
higher pressure, ramp it up a little bit, you'll get
the best out of these guys.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Cool stuff, Joe.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
We'll see you next time at the Book of Joe
and enjoy everybody the All Star Game coming up in Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Absolutely take care, Tony.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.