September 25, 2025 • 49 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci eye the last few days of the MLB regular season. Could this be the tightest MVP race in a long time between Cal Raleigh and Aaron Judge? Who are the hot teams headed into the postseason and which teams have red flags? Tom notes Shohei Ohtani pitching and his schedule lining up to start Game 1 in the playoffs. What has happened to the Mets down the stretch and what offseason changes could already be in the works? Tom and Joe pick their favorites down the stretch and discuss how to keep a team in playoff form!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts
with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. We
are in the final days of the twenty twenty five
(00:24):
Major League Baseball regular season, and I gotta tell you,
this is an all time MVP race that we're talking
about here. I know we've talked about this a lot.
A lot of people have because it's been so fascinating,
but it just got a lot more interesting to me.
Put it this way, Joe, someone is not going to
win the MVP, either a catcher who hit sixty home
(00:47):
runs or an outfielder who hits fifty home runs and
wins a batting title. As we get to these final days, Joe,
where are you on the Great American League MVP debate?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, I mean when you talk about stuff that Judge
has done, because I watched the Yankees, all you hear
a lot of compcerre. He's caught Ruth for this, or
you know, all the glorious Yankee names of the past,
He's caught them. He's fifty plus home runs, all the
different things he's done on an annual basis, and now
you're talking about a batting title, almost a triple crown.
(01:19):
And then on the other side, the other guy is
camp To. He's just past Mickey Mantle. Now he's up
there with Through He's going to catch Maris maybe, and
then on and on. So at the end of the day,
I think always the most glorious record among hitters has
always been the home run title. And to be in
such glorified air as that of Ruth and Maris.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Again ties to the Yankees.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I see, it's really difficult walking away from Raleigh right now.
On top of the fact that the position that he
plays too with Judge has been out a little bit defensively,
although his numbers are fabulous and he is that valuable
to that team winning and getting to the postseason again.
But the fact that Raley kind of been so south
a little bit post All Star Break. I thought that
(02:03):
the participation in the home run derby may have pushed
him back a little bit, but nevertheless, he's regained his momentum.
And I watched the home runs last night more recently,
and the bat speed is absolutely still there. It's incredible,
as bad speed always astounds me. You watch Judge at
a home run. It's like this nice, smooth, strong ball
hits that part of bat ball goes on the ballpark, rawy,
(02:23):
same thing. However, the bat speed just to the eyeball
looks incredible and it's probably the same if you put
it on some kind of measuring device. Anyway, long story short,
I'm voting for Ralely.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Even if he doesn't hit sixty two. Sixty is enough
for you.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, absolutely it is. I still, you know, I still
like the end of the benchmark. I don't even like
how many games is this now that he's played? Is
it the does it pass the number? It's like, how
many games are the of the Mariners plays?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Fifty six?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, we got what four games left here?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, so that's after the one to fifty four season
of Ruth. Nevertheless, I am that impressed. Yes, I'm that impressed.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, it's interesting. I think sixty two he wins it.
And this is going to sound crazy because people are
going to say, well, that's the difference between sixty and
sixty two. Well, sixty two is the record. And it
reminds me of Miguel Cabrera and Mike trout Right. Miguel
Cabrera wins. The Triple Crown. Trout had the better overall numbers,
but it was historic, obviously, the Triple Crown and a
(03:18):
narrative associated with that, and it actually turned out not
that close.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
That year.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Miguel Cabrera had twenty two. I think of the twenty
eight first place votes, or all but eight of them,
say twenty two. I think it was twenty two and eight. Anyway,
it wasn't that close, and people were thinking to be
neck and neck. I think if Ralegh gets the sixty two,
I think he wins. I think here at sixty or
even sixty one, I think it's Judge. I mean, I
(03:42):
know that sounds crazy, don't get me wrong, but it's
hard to walk away from what Judge has done. The
fifty home runs plus a batting title has been done
only by Jimmy Fox and Mickey Mantle. And when you
look at ops, Aaron Judge way ahead eleven thirty six
to nine to fifty nine for Raleigh, and you're like,
wait a second. Raley hits in a tougher ballpark to
(04:02):
hit the Yankee Stadium out there in Seattle. So if
you go buy OPS plus, which factors in how the
park plays and everything around the league. Judge has a
huge advantage two thirteen to one seventy two, so the
offensive number is actually not that close other than the
home runs and RBIs. I'm not saying the vote's not close.
I'm saying slight edged, Judge, but I think it can tip.
(04:24):
And again I recognize that this sounds crazy, but a
record is a record, and as you mentioned, Joe, it's
one of the all time most important records in all sports.
Actually the home run record, the American League Red record
in this case, and for a catcher to do it,
I don't know how you deny Riley at that point.
So you know, listen, last year Bobby wit Junior had
(04:46):
one of the greatest years ever by a shortstop and
could not win the MVP because of Eron's Judge, somebody's
going to go home unhappy here deserving the MVP. It's
just how it is. They picked the same year to
have historic seasons. But right now, this would be my
guess on how the vote turns out. I think right
now is Judge, but Raley has really closed the gap
(05:08):
and still can win it.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Me ask you this regarding like a judge's ops, how
many intentional walks has he received this year compared to.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Roll well a lot more. Yeah. I mean we saw
it the other day where playing the White Sox. That
night the Yankees clinched the division, he was walked intentionally
as the winning run in the ninth inning, and we
all knew it was the exact proper thing to do, right,
and guess what, he scored the winning run, but you
had to put them on base. He's that good.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So again, if you subtracted Judge's intentional walks, which.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Which is thirty four by the way, thirty four leads
the league.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
And then how many does Rawley have?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Do we have any idea on that? You probably have
an idea on that one. I'm just just curious. If
you take those numbers away, then does that push the
ops down to like more comparable numbers or he's still
out of control?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
He has about half, He's got sixteen.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
That's still okay. But nevertheless, I'm just saying that the
kind of treatment that Judge is received, I think has
exceeded what Rawley's received. And just during the course of
the season, who's ever hitting behind Raleigh? I haven't watched
that one as closely, but I don't even know if
it's more intimidating behind Rally than it's been behind Judge
or not. Just meaning like, even if you don't intentionally
(06:19):
walk Judge, you unintentionally intentionally walk Judge. So I mean,
I'm just saying some of that Ops may be bloated
a little bit based on pitching around him and just
the here we go four fingers from the dugout, which
one hundred percent agree with. I would have done the
same thing that that Will did the other night, one
hundred percent, But I just say it it could maybe
just been a little bit tamer in regards to the
(06:41):
disparity between that particular number.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Let me give you Aaron Judges September, all right, Yank,
he's fighting for a division title, three p fifty eight,
betting average, five twenty six on base percentage based more
than half the time and a seven thirty one slug.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I did dip a little bit there in August because
he had that elbow injury coming back from that. But
you know, down stretch here now, listen, I think it
comes out of this, Joe. I don't think there's any
question that Aaron Judge is the better hitter than Calra
no doubt right. If the award is not best Hitter,
there's a Hank Aaron Award, which goes to the best hitter.
Aeron Judge will win that. The question is how do
you value the MVP and cal Raley playing catcher and
(07:22):
putting up this incredible season. I can easily see how
the positional value here can swing it for a lot
of voters. I think it's going to be very close.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That's another point.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
But the other thing, too, is just them, their personalities,
who they are. I mean, Rowley comes across really well too.
I don't know him, so I think, you know, just
on the likability factor, I think they're really like superstar worthy,
just as likable people. And then on top of that,
they're really good at baseball. I don't know how much
that may apply to some voters. I know it should not,
(07:53):
but it may. But from among the fan base, I
think it's even a more difficult discussion because if there
was a villain in this whole thing, it'd be easy
to push it one way or the other.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But there's not.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
These are really good baseball players, good baseball, they're good people.
They're doing astonishing things this year and they're likable, they're
way up there. They're great for the sport. They're the
kind of guys you want to be recognized at the
end of the year based on their performance, just because
of who they are. So there's that part of it too,
comes out as a wash. I believe that they're really
(08:25):
wonderful people on top of everything.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Else, and I do believe Joe that this is also
a part of it in terms of Raleigh's candidacy. The
Seattle Mariners won the American League West for the first
time in twenty four years. I mean, this is historic.
This was the fourth longest drought without winning a division championship.
The Pirates have the longest, going back to ninety two.
(08:48):
Then you have the Marlins and the Rockies been around
since ninety three, still have not won one. You know,
a quarter of a century where Seattle had not won
the division title, and Cam rely carried them down the stretch.
Here they won fifteen of sixteen to basically blow away
the team that's owned that division, that Houston Astros, who
are free falling nine to twelve in September, losing five
(09:11):
in a row. But that has to be a part
of it that he led this team that really didn't
know how to close out a season, closing it out
in like historic fashion year fifteen and one, to win
your first division title in twenty four years, that's going
to count for something.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Those the less you know, the touchdown, he's Tom Brady,
you know, he marches you down the field for the
in the fourth quarter with no time on the clock.
He's Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, all those dudes that take
that last shot. Most of the time it goes in.
I mean, baseball, it's hard to be dominated by one
guy to lead necessarily because it's such It truly is
such a team sport played by individuals and individual numbers.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But to have one guy just really sway it and
push it across the finish line not easy, not easy
to do compared to, like I said, a basketball game
or a football game. Football, if you don't have a quarterback,
you cannot win. You cannot win without that. Basketball it
almost always seems to be the really Lebron James.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
More recently, you.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Know, there's that one guy that can push you over
the finish line. It's unusual in baseball that one guy
to be able to push you over the finish line
and so those those are the kind of things that
I think about also. And it's hard, like if you
were talking about to really how do you how do
you parcel this up and how do you figure this out?
But yeah, to be the guy that gets them to
(10:28):
that to the Promised Land for the first time in
a long time, like you're suggesting there, it's all got
to be considered.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I'm glad I'm not voting. Yeah, it's a difficult one.
And in the meantime, Joe, give me who you think
the team to beat is in the American League now,
I mean I've thought all along Seattle has been dangerous
and the way especially they're playing at home, they're a
handful and the pitching is starting to come around. We
all knew they had really good pitching. I thought they'd
(10:54):
underchieved a little bit, but that is starting to lock down.
This is a team that hits a ton of home runs.
Julio Rodriguez is having an all world second half. I mean,
he's been terrific down this here. We know about Raleigh.
This team can beat you in a lot of ways,
but especially with power. There's a lot of power in
that cl lineup. But I look at the New York
Yankees right now, and they've got it going on. They're starting,
(11:15):
pitching is really good. I know there's some questions about
the bullpen. I'm not too worried about it. I think
the answers are there. And you also talk about power.
I mean, right now, they just are wearing teams out
with even their threat of power. The way teams and
pitchers just kind of work around and nibble, and the
Yankees won't chase. They've been playing some great baseball here.
I would lean towards the Yankees as my theoretical number
(11:38):
one seed, but Seattle's right there with them.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah. I like Seattle.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I've liked them so since they made those acquisitions with
the team.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
You got to keep it on.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right now is Cleveland and you talk about a group
that's pitching well right now, and I know they're not
there yet, but I what they got going on. I'm
watching I'm been watching them the last two nights with
the Tigers.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean, this is one of those This is like
I a digress a bit when I've had my conversations
with my guys before playoff games.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
The look, I never wanted.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Us to get that Look this the fetus, Look this
deer in the headlight, look this like we have no
chance to look.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I mean, but it's all over the Detroit team.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
When I watch them on the field in the dugout,
that's poor. I mean, it's just striking out one after another.
It's it's crazy. And then on the other side of it,
it's just like Cleveland's at that point, I'm just gonna
throw a glove out. They were going to be the
latter day Colorado Rockies from a couple of years ago
all the way to the World Series. So listen, I
really think they they're real dangerous right now, and a
(12:35):
lot of that has to do with they're pitching, and
they got this kind of a swarming style of offense
that I kind of like, you know, primarily a bunch
of no name kind of guys outside of Ramiers maybe.
So yeah, I think Cleveland's really dangerous and I'm watching
this and on the other side of it, Detroit they're lucky,
that kind of lucky that Houston's the team that's right
there with them, because Houston right now is has the
(12:58):
equally the same bad vibe about them. So I don't
know how that's going to shake out right there. But
I Thinkland's gonna hold on to this win that division,
and then they become extremely dangerous because they.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Got it going on right now.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And so I don't like the Yankees as much, I
guess is what I'm saying. I think the Yankees been
more recently benefited from the Baltimore team that really doesn't
care right now, and he got the White Sox that
I think are still battling but nevertheless are really lacking.
So they got the right schedule at the right time
the Yankees have in order to ascend like they have,
whereas the Blue Jays playing the Red Sox right now
(13:32):
a bit more difficult so and plus day flinch their spot.
I mean that I think those two teams are really
dangerous right now, and I think they have one of
those two have the best opportunity to advance within the
American League.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
A great point on Cleveland. Their pitching is unbelievable. You know,
I spoke with Stephen Vote last week. He talked about
how important it was to go to a six man
rotation down the stretch. They had a stretch of where
they played about twenty three games in twenty three days,
and they decided, you know, we need to go to
a six man rotation. And what Carl will is, the
pitching coach who does a great job did there was
he had his starters well, giving them quote unquote rest.
(14:06):
He actually had them throw two bullpen sessions in between starts,
and they worked on pitch shaping and mechanics. They definitely
got Tanner Bybee right in that regard. Same with Gavin Williams.
Those guys have been lights out. They've gone like eighteen
nineteen games in a row the starting pitching staff without
giving up more than two runs. I mean, that is
just crazy. But I still think, Joey, you get to
a postseason environment, you need power. You have to hit
(14:28):
home runs. And I love watching the style that they
play just as much as you do. But man, it's
tough to win games in the postseason without hitting home runs.
And I just think the lack of power is going
to catch up to them. But they will keep games
close and they are a fantastic defensive team. They will
not make mistakes. You are going to have to beat
(14:48):
the Guardians. Love watching them play, but I think against
the power that Seattle has, New York has, even Toronto has,
I think it's gonna be a tough way for them
to win a series, but they are dangerous. The confidence
they're playing with right now, it's a most unbreakable love
watching that team play.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, the momentum is in their favor right now.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And then something you had said earlier, I'm not as
high on the Yankee bullpen. I don't like what I'm
seeing there overall. I really would be concerned with that.
I know that Freetz pitch better more recently he's got
it back on track Hoddan, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I just I'm not seeing it. I know they hit
home runs and they have to pop.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I get all that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
But against good pitching, a good pitching staff with a
well laid out plan, I still think could put that down.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I've been part of that. You know, with the Cubs,
power can.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Go away based on great execution of pitches and a
really good staff. Like the Mets to the twenty fifteen Cubs, man,
they just shut us down.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I saw it in two thousand and five versus the
White Sox with the Angels, where we won the first
game of that series, and then after that they won
that controversial game in Chicago on that ball in the dirt,
not in the dirt, or Prisiensky man of first base,
Doug Atting changes as calls, Eric Crawford backs him up,
and all of a sudden, we can't get into a bullpen.
(16:06):
After that, I mean Garland and the contourers and all
these dudes, Burley, we could not get in a bullpen.
We could not get in the bullpen, and we did
have some pops. So I don't know, I get it,
and I know what's the refrain is. But at some
point I'm looking for that to turn. And the only
way it does turn is by a team having spectacular
starting pitching or pitching in general, because you have to
(16:27):
have the pin too. So that's what it's going to take,
I think, to knock the home run hitting World Series
winning thrown down a notch. It's going to have to
come from mistake free baseball like you suggested, and also
a real group of starting pitching more key kind of
mashup pitching, which doesn't really exist anywhere. That's going to
be part of party is the word momentum today and
(16:48):
it's going to be part of the quote of the day.
But that's where I see Cleveland is having an opportunity,
and I like Seattle's pitching.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Too, I do.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I like the kid Woo up there, and of course
Castillo when he's right, and he looked really motivated last night.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
There's a lot to like on.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Those Yeah, it's Cleveland also has that bullpen you're talking about, Joe.
I mentioned their starters, but I like their bullpen a
lot with a lot of different options, even without Emmanuel
class A, which is amazing when you think about it.
He had been one of the best closures in the game.
It hasn't been around here these two months. So did
you see sho Hey Otani pitch the other night in Arizona? Joe,
(17:24):
we need to talk about show Hey Otani, and if
you're Dave Roberts, what do you do with your rotation
heading into the playoffs. We'll do that right after this
on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book
(17:46):
of Joe podcasts, Show Hey Otani. I'm always fascinating by him, Joe.
I mean, I hope people never get used to the
fact what he's doing is absolutely crazy. It's bunkers leading
off games and starting pitching. Watching him pitch in Arizona.
It's like they took all the guardrails off. Through ninety
one pitches he threw six innings, Joey had nine swings
(18:08):
and misses on his four seam fastball. I haven't seeing
sho Hey pitch off his fastball like this in a
long time. He looked that good. The nine swings and
misses on the fastball were second most in his career.
In the sixth inning, his last thinning of work, he
averaged ninety nine miles an hour. That was the hardest
of his career. He hit one oh one point two
(18:31):
with one of his fastballs. He's thrown four pitches this
month at one oh one or more for the first
time in his career. I mean, he looked really good.
And if you do the math, he's lined up to
have six days of rest going into wild Card Game
number one. That tells me Joe and the way he
threw the baseball on his staff with Blake Snell and
(18:53):
Tyler Glasnow and Yester and Noobu Yamamoto, he's the number
one starter for Dave Roberts. What do you think of that? Show?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Starting Game one?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
No doubt.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think they've been building in this the whole time.
We talked about that when he was coming back from
his injury and how they were going to like build
him into five innings and they had the end game
in mind. They worked it from the last game of
the World Series possibly and moved it backwards. You always,
I've always been big on that. Whenever you're building a schedule, man,
you always played backwards. You never played forward. So none
of this surprises me. And the thing you just mentioned,
(19:24):
and this is my observation when I was with him brother,
when he has command of his fastball, heads up, because
all that other stuff becomes even more wicked. When these
guys have to honor a fastball that he's throwing where
he wants to, when he wants to. That makes everything
else exaggeratingly better.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
So that's it. Because when I first saw him, he had,
you know, some he had.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
His volocity was pretty good, wasn't up to where like
you said one on one point two. However, without the
command of his fastball, the other stuff didn't play as
big because hitters didn't have to respect him as much.
But when his fastball command and velocity is playing, Wow,
this guy becomes he is another level. Whatever that level
is that he is, he becomes even more differ So
(20:05):
that's it, And yes, I would the six day is perfect,
and it does not surprise. I'm happy for him, A
big fan as a player and as a person. I
really enjoyed my time working with him. So I, as
you said, don't get used to it. Don't ever get
used to this, because this is that cool. But never
be surprised either by what he's capable of doing.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Joe, looking back on what he's done this year, he
has hit more balls one hundred miles an hour plus
than any batter in baseball, and since he got on
the mound in June, he has the third most one
hundred mile per hour pitches of any starting pitcher in baseball.
I mean, that's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
He lives, he lives at the sentry mark. Right, It's
just listen, it's you know. And I was there when
all the detractors got to choose one or the other.
He's been hurt several times with his arm. He's got
to give it up. Something's going to suffer eventually. It
will eventually he will have to probably make a choice.
And we've talked about this one more arm injury and
(21:00):
it's probably going to be that's it. He's an offensive
player only. But in the meantime, I know this is
what he wants. I know this is how he's motivated.
We haven't seen it before, we've talked about this. I
don't know the next time we shall. So uh, I said, enjoy,
enjoy the right, folks, because it is that good. He
is that special, it is that different. He's like, there's
the major leagues, and then there's the then there's actually
(21:22):
a league above that, and then there's show Hey league
above that. So he is that he's the only person
in that league. So let's just enjoy it and watch
it all the way through. Because you talk about mussy TV.
If anybody is going to be able to spike TV
ratings in our postseason, would be the Dodgers and show
Hey not only playing but pitching in a particular game,
(21:43):
and you know, the tune in factor is going to
be incredible.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
He's gone past fifty home runs and one hundred walks
and stolen nineteen bases. Nobody in the history of baseball
has ever done that. And I know that's cherry picking
a little bit, but we're looking at things that are
you know, a lot of guys do one or the other.
You know, they run, they hit for power, they control
the strike zone. He does it all while pitching like
a Game one postseason starter. I mean, it's just absolutely crazy.
(22:10):
And in the meantime, Joe, I think you look at
the LA Dodgers and we'll talk about their bullpen in
a second, because that's a major issue. But as you said,
it's almost like things are working out exactly the way
they planned, backloading all the plans to make sure that
they got to October with their pitching healthy. And on point.
We just talked about Otani throwing the ball better than
he has all year. That's worked out perfectly the way
(22:33):
they slow played him. Blake Snell his last four starts,
he has an zero point four seven ERA, Tyler glassnew
is throwing the ball better than he has all year.
And Yashinobu Yamamoto, he's the only one who actually carried
some volume this year, getting close to one hundred and
seventy innings. He's been great. Those are four incredible options.
And then last night Clayton Kershaw pitched an inning out
(22:55):
of the bullpen. How about that four hundred and fifty
four career appearances. That was the fourth time he came
out of the bullpen for a regular season game. They
have an embarrassment of riches. So I don't know how
he orders his rotation for the wildcard round, but I
do believe it begins with Otani, probably Yamamoto behind him,
and then Snell. We'll see what he does, but those
(23:16):
are all good options. The question, Joe is, if you're
Dave Roberts, how do you end the game? Now, this
is really interesting. Roki Sasaki, he hasn't pitched in the
major league since May. It's shoulder impingement. They send him
down on rehab about a month or so ago, and
he's making his start, slowly working his way back, and
then about a week ago they said, you know what,
let's put this guy in the bullpen. He made two
(23:38):
appearances in the bullpen in Oklahoma City and he hit
one hundred miles an hour. They bring up to the
big leagues and here's their plan. Let's give him two
high leverage spots to pitch out of the bullpen in
a major league game. We'll start an ending clean We're
not going to drop him in at a dirty eating.
Let's see how he handles that you never know. Joe, right,
a guy, a starting pitcher. You know, how as long
does he warm up, how much time does he need?
(23:59):
Has he handle getting into the middle of the game. Well,
he pitched against araz O a last night and lights out,
clean inning, three batters, two strikeouts, He hit one hundred
miles an hour. He averaged ninety nine. Now his average
fastball velocity is ninety six. So yeah, like a lot
of guys, is gonna play up if you know you're
only going one inning. And his splitter, which he normally
(24:21):
throws eighty five, was up to eighty seven, so his
stuff definitely played up. He's gonna get one more trial here.
So to speak out of the bullpen, Joe would not
surprise me. If Roki Sasaki is the closer for the
La Dodgers in the postseason. I know this. David Roberts
is not gonna hesitate to bring him into a high
(24:41):
leveraged spot as long as it's a clean inning. And
they they just added another impact arm and this could
be found money for the Dodgers with Roki Sasaki. Would
you use Sasaki as your closer, a guy who's no
history of closing, but his closer's stuff in a postseason
environment was David Price.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I mean, that's that's that's not difficult.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, absolutely, they know what they got. They know I
watched train and pitch more recently and still decent stuff,
but not what it had been. And if in fact
the biggest thing would be the health of this fellow,
would be my only concern. And if they're convinced that
he's fine, there's there'll still be like some restrictive plates
on him. There's going to make sure that they doesn't
exceed any limits. The fact with the clean inning, that's great,
(25:25):
but there's going to be a moment when that might
go away as it progresses more deeply into the playoffs,
if in fact he shows that he's well, because my
my biggest concern with the dirty getting would just be
like we did with Johnny Lester, the fact that he
had such a hard time.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
With the running game that it may bother him.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
But otherwise you just you don't really have to worry
about that as much. But yes, you still want to
get him out there clean, just let him rock and roll.
But I'd have no issues with that. My only like
I said, the only thing of the training staff doctors
would have to assure him everything's groovy.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
He's fine, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But even with that, there's the days resting between and
the way the schedule works off and the works out.
In the playoffs, you have so many days off that
you have built ins in regards to getting guys down
and giving the necessary time. And there's you know, there's
no guarantees you have to like safe situation, two three nights.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
In a row.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
So there's all the built ins too. So there's a
lot of stuff working in their favor right there. But
for me, no problem whatsoever. David Price did it and
he was really young at that time. And if it
wasn't for David raised, don't go to the World Series
that year because he came in in Game seven of
the ALCS and it was a three to one ball game,
ground ball the hockey and we're going to the World Series.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, no bigger spot than that. Here's my question for you, Joe,
as a manager, when you've got you mentioned shrine in right,
and we know how much these battled health issues, and
you've got someone like Tanner Scott. I look at those guys,
I don't see them as reliable right now. Now you
look at the back of the baseball card and you go, yeah,
I mean I want to use those guys like that's
why they're here. You know how concerning is it as
(26:56):
a manager and that kind of push pull between trust
and what you're looking at, because right now, when I'm
looking at Tanner Scotta, ball is not playing the way
it should and with trying to something about him not
quite the same either. I can't just to me anyway
looking at trying it and Scott. I just can't look
at them and say this is where I'm planning to
(27:17):
win the game late the ball is going to be
in their hands. I've got to find a different avenue
right now in a postseason environment, because, as you know,
one game can be all the difference between going home
and moving on.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I live that too, And even in the twenty sixteen
year old series where the better part of our bullpen
at that time, where the youngsters CJ. Edwards, Mike Montgomery,
they really ascended at that point, and so we relied.
I relied heavily on our role as chapman to get
us through that moment, just for the same reason as
you're suggesting right now, because you don't know. The game
can get away from you so quickly that once the
(27:49):
other team grabs the momentum to just pull somebody out
of the bullpen again, somebody that you really don't see
his lockdown right now, that you could really feel like
trustworthy about. It's difficult. It's difficult to even permit that
situation to blossom. That's really what it comes down to.
So I've been there also, and so it's tough. It
is very tough, and guys like Scott trying and probably
(28:10):
I don't even know off the top of my head
who the other alternatives are. But if you could get
those guys into the game earlier, or do you still
have to rely on them late?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Got something that they're going to have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
They know, being the Dodgers know, the staff knows how
much they can trust these guys by their conversations, by
just watching them from the side, the body language, the
way the ball's coming out of their hand, all the
things that nobody they're not measurables in a sense that
you could put a gun on it or look at
data and try to figure it out. This is just
(28:41):
the eyeball test. And when the eyeball test doesn't match up. Man,
it's hard. It's hard to put your trust out there.
So again, this is a situation where they may rely
more heavily on the hot hand, and maybe one of
the young guys develops the hot hand situation like with
the Detroit did last year, with some of the youngsters
got hot and all of a sudden, you got these
(29:01):
hot guys coming out of the bullpen. Maybe not necessarily
a track record, but all of a sudden, they got
their blinders on. All they've seen is the catcher's glove.
They get caught up in the momentum and they just
don't know enough to be scared or frightened or uncertain.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I've been through it, and it's not easy when you
don't have that total trust in the person coming in.
It's hard to tell your pitching coach called down and
gets so and so up. It's really difficult.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well, I would not be surprised if we're looking at
another Yankees Dodgers World Series. But the caveat to that
is both teams have questions about how they finish off games.
And we've talked before, Joe about no home field advantage
in postseason play in the last three years, home teams
are sixty and sixty four. Here's another step, because we're
going to talk about your pick for the best team
(29:48):
coming out of the National League, not your World Series team,
but if you had the seed teams going in the
team to most beat. But looking at the way the
tournament as I call it, has played out in the
twelve team format in the last three years, number six teams.
So the last team in in each league has as
many wins in the postseason as the number one seed.
(30:08):
Let me say that again, the sixth seed has won
as many postseason games in the last three years as
the number one seed. So there is no chuck in
the baseball tournament in this twelve team format. But I
will tell you, and all due respect to Philly, which
is just rolling, especially at home, they are tough to
take out Milwaukee. Love to watch that team play. I'd
(30:31):
like to see a team that just sprays the ball
around and runs the bases win a World Series, and
they can do it. But I'm looking at the LA
Dodgers peaking at the right time. The talent on that
team is off the charts. I don't think anybody can
match their swing and miss what they have in the rotation.
For me, Joe, if I were seeding teams, I would
have the LA Dodgers right now number one. Who do
(30:51):
you have?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, I mean, I like it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
To me, it's a toss up between Milwaukee and Philadelphia.
I still I'm staying with that. I think both of
those groups are Not that the Dodgers aren't hungry, They're
getting hungrier as seasons in progress, but they just really
haven't played this uber level of baseball this year that
everybody expected of them from the beginning. And I know
that a lot of their plans have been pointing towards
the end. And I think they're gonna play. They're gonna
(31:16):
They're gonna advance somewhat, but I don't think they're gonna
go all the.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Way this year.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I think the hungrier versions of the Milwaukee Phillies, and
my outlier team would be San Diego. Actually, the fact
that again, these are the hungry lions within the group,
within the desert there they want it. I think I'm listening.
I'm not incriminating anybody here, not suggesting anything other than that,
I think that the way these guys are going about
their business and their recent history is going to fuel
(31:42):
them a little bit more so I do. I love
Milwaukee and the way we play. We've talked about that.
San Diego is just the enigma team, up and down,
up and down whatever.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
They still don't don't even have ninety wins, which is
always I mean, when teams get to the playoffs with
that ninety ones, it always bothers me, just my baseball sensibilities.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I know. There's the Phillies and again.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I watched them last night and they missed trait turned
and they're still They've turned up the dial and I
like some of their pitching there too, although you know,
the extended part of the rotation without Zach Wheeler difficult
to imagine. But if I had to pick one, if
I had to pick one, I'm saying the Phillies, although
I think I love Milwaukee, and I'm just saying I
(32:22):
think San Diego is going to overcome if they end
up playing one another of the Dodgers this year too.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
One team we did not mention and we will talk
about them after this break is a team I call
a manager's nightmare, the New York Mets, And I'm explain
why I call them a manager's nightmare. When we get
back on the Book of Joe, Welcome back to the
(32:50):
Book of Joe. I called them New York Mets a
manager's nightmare, Joe, because I believe, and you correct me
if I'm wrong, because you know better than I. One
of the worst feelings as a manager is going into
a game and not knowing how you can finish it.
I mean, yes, he's got it. With Diaz at the back,
with the New York Mets and Carlos Mendoza the manager,
they get no length from their starting pitching, and night
(33:12):
after night after night, he has to find options, like
in the fifth inning, to try to somehow get the
game deadwin Diaz, and yeah, you can do that for
a game or two, maybe a series, maybe even a week.
The Mets have been trying to do that for four months.
Only the Colorado Rockies have fewer starts of six innings
(33:33):
than the New York Mets, and they're hanging on by
a thread here. Since the middle of June, they're thirty
six and fifty three. The Mets have been a bad
team longer than they've been a good team. They've used
more pitchers than any team in the history of the game,
and it's all caught up to them, the fact that
(33:54):
they have not gotten on any length and right now
down the stretch they were lying on three guys. A
month ago were in the rotation of the Binghamton Rumble Ponies.
I mean, it is a hard way to win, knowing
you have so many outs to cover every single night.
They may still get in. I don't know, But Joe,
(34:14):
you talk also about body language. Tell me what you
see when you're looking at the New York Mets, because
I see some of that hang dog look as well
that you don't want to see.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, they're expecting them. They're not expecting to win. I'm
not saying they're expecting to lose, but they're definitely not
expecting to win. And as you just suggested, as the
game got deeper, they're waiting for the other shoe to
fall somehow. Now, just going back a little bit, you
talked about starting pitching. It's the industry's fault the way
the starting pitching is today.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And they're right at the forefront of it. They didn't
want to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I don't even know who they could have bought in
the off season anyway, But you know, you're bringing homes
and men, they try to resurrect them, et cetera, and
it's not working out train otherwise. I love the kid
McClain though, don't get me wrong. That guy's nice and
they brought him up from their system. But we're not
nurturing the starting pitching. It's not a it's not a
part of the formula coming through the minor leagues, drafting,
(35:08):
developing big leagues. We want them only to pitch four
or five. That's what they've been trained to do. They're
not trained to go six to seven. They don't even
know what it's like to fight through the third time
through the batting order to play deeper into the game.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
They don't even know what it's like.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
The Marquee matchup is a thing of the past, and
that that's also going to be part of what I
was going to talk about at the very end. And
so I think it's a built in industry fault listening
to analytics so much to the point where the third
time through the batting orders becomes such a kryptonite kind
of a situation that we don't even want to give
guys the opportunity to figure out if they can or cannot.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Do these kind of things.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So when you get faced with moments like this, to me,
it's a built in it's your own fault for nurturing
this kind of a method, and it's the method they
wanted at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
This is what they thought.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Would work, and now they're finding out that it doesn't.
But everybody is when you have teams that are like
I said, there's so many teams that are still solvent,
even two games over five hundred that are solvent regarding
possibly getting into the playoffs. If you have starting pitchers,
like a real legitimate starting staff that these guys make
most of their starts for the during the course of
(36:14):
the year, you're going.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
To be in your ninety wins right now.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
If you got legitimate major league starting pitchers, they get
out there all the time. And I listen with the
rays we did that. That was the thing I used
to challenge my guys on an annual basis, the starters.
The challenge was a thousand innings out of you guys,
not just five, maybe six, maybe seven guys total, But
you wanted a thousand innings out of your starting pitcher,
and it's impossible anyway. I know that, but when it happens,
(36:37):
when your guys are capable of.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Doing that, you're pretty good.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You're gonna be pretty good, and your bullpen's going to
be better too. So anyway, it's a built in. It's
an industry's fault. So I really have no sympathy for that.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Well, Ye're one hundred percent right. This is built in.
You watch the way teams play the regular season. Dodgers
a good example of this. They're pitching their pitchers or
starters with more rest and fewer innings. You know, the
Dodgers are by far the fewest starts of four days
or fewer this year, Like, by far, no one's close
to them, and no one is putting the pedal to
(37:09):
the floor to try to win those ninety plus games
you're talking about, Joe, we're talking about two straight years
now where no team has won one hundred games. It's
almost by design because you're willing to back off your
pitchers and qualify for the tournament. I hate to put
it that way, but it's true. And you're seeing teams
you can play around five hundred baseball for five months.
You're in the thick of things. And I just talked
(37:30):
about how the six team can beat the number one
seed easily in the baseball postseason. So what's the risk
reward risk is try to win as many as possible.
What does that get you? Doesn't get you much, So
just get in and that's what we're seeing. David Stearns
worked this plant to perfection of twenty nineteen with the
Brewers short starts right out the work. They did really well.
(37:51):
It worked a little bit last year for the Mets.
Well that more than a little bit. They got to
the NLCS. But you're right, it's blown up on them
this year. And the other thing, Joe is, look at
what the Mets did at the trade deadline. They need
a bullpen help. They got Ryan Helsley and he needed
outfield help. They got Cedric Mullins. They go to Chicago
for a series this week, big series, hanging on by
a thread. Last week of the season. They get a
(38:12):
close game in the eighth inning, there's no Ryan Helsley.
Mendoza asked Diaz to get six outs. It tells you
how far out of the circle of trust Hellsley is.
And he began that game with Cedric Mullins on the bench.
It compromised his defense to have Nimo play center fields.
Darling Marte leftfield for the onlyest six time all year,
getting out there because he needed more offense, because he
(38:34):
knows the Mets have to outscore other teams to win
a game. Those are two huge whiffs. And talking about
Helsley and Mullens, and again I've said this, Joe. You're
talking about guys who've been in one organization their whole
career ten years, and then you drop them into a
playoff race in New York and say go get them.
You've got to do it right away. That has really
harmed the New York Mets. And I'm with youa McLean
(38:54):
I like him. He spins the baseball literally more in
terms of RPMs than anybody in baseball, but he also
has to be protected. You're not going to have him
throw seven eight innings. He's never pitched a six month
of a professional season before, so this is all coming back,
you know, to haunt the New York Mets in terms
of lack of length from their rotation. And again I
(39:15):
sympathize with Carlos Mendoza. How you get through a game
knowing you pretty much have to score six or seven runs,
and you're gonna have to keep leaning on these bullpen
guys night after night. That's a hard walk to try
to get to October.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
First of all, I mean, I listen when they got
Hellsley and Mullins. I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I like those guys. I've seen Hellsley and Saint Louis
outs standing in. Mullins was always a good player. Like
you're saying, it's just to dump him into a New
York Pennant race or something went awry there. But when
that first occurred, I thought bully for them. I thought
they were both good moves. I did, so that's that's it.
And on the other side, Carlos Mendoz I think is
a good man.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
I like him. I like him a lot. Obviously does
a great job I do. I like him a lot.
I like his demeanor.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
He doesn't show the emotion in the dugout when things
go poorly when I when I recess upthing. I like
what he says and how he says it. So hopefully
none of this falls on him, because I really do
this guy's going to be a good manager for many
years to come. He reeks of old school kind of training.
He did it the right way how he got there.
So I'm a big fan, so hopefully they don't lay
(40:19):
any blame on him. But everything you've laid out there
is absolutely accurate. And you get to that point when
you start bringing your closer in for six outs in
this time of the year, My god, if you even
get to the playoffs, that closer is not going to
be the guy you've saw all year or somebody you
can count on. It's going to fall apart at some point.
It's just hard, difficult than possible to try to scratch
(40:41):
a guy like that for that length of period of
time and expect a consistent level of good result.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
It's just not going to happen. So anyway, I like
the deals.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
It's not working out, and I hope Mendoza doesn't take
a hit on this because he's done a great job
and I like him.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
He's going to be a good manager for many years
to come.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, I'm with you on Carlos. I think he does
a great job. That the roster construction, you know, the
lack of length from starting pitching. He's got nothing to
do with the manager here, but it's a tough way
again to get through a game on a nightly basis.
So we've got the Tigers and the Mets and the
Astros all collapsing down here in September. We will see
if any of those teams, or at least a couple
(41:18):
of them, squeeze into October, and we'll see. Momentum does
it matter? Not as much as we think. I've seen
a lot of teams struggle down the stretch, Joe and
still go on a run. Two thousand Yankees come to mind.
It can be done, but you'd much rather be playing
like Seattle right now, where you feel like you could
take on the world and win. So, Joe, you've teased
your final thought here for a while here I'm looking
(41:40):
forward to it. You always end our episodes of the
Book of Joe with words of wisdom. So what do
you have for us today?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Well, you use it again, and I mean it really
does a lot. Momentum has a lot to do with
this time of the year. But as one of the
quotes here is like from our boy or a Weaver,
momentum question mark momentum is the next day starting pitcher,
and we've That's what I was trying to allude to there.
Without the training of real Marquee style starting pitchers which
(42:09):
we were used to growing up. I don't even know
even even in the recent past. It's not like the
distant past where when you talk about momentum, your next
day starting pitcher, Who are those guys? How many of
those guys exist today? That's that's what I was trying
to figure out. Who are the marquee guys. I think
Schemes absolutely is a marquee guy. I think show Hey
(42:30):
obviously is a marquee guy. A guy that you can
you know he's pitching the next day. You might your
bullpen might be a little bit tard. You have to
really push to win a game because you know this
guy can carry the game more deeply the next day.
But I, you know, to sit down and I didn't
do the exercise yet, but sit down and write marquee matchup.
Marquee kind of starting pitchers that the fans have to
(42:53):
see and that you as a manager, I feel really
good about this guy going to get deeper into the
game and not having to use your bullpen. Listen, even
in the Asalem Angels back in the day or o'lugu,
I went.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Up to him before a playoff game.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
This is in nineteen eighty two, I think right, and
I said, Socio the way the innings Manana nine innings tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
This is a kid.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
And then also at Kirk McCaskill, he went nine innings
in a playoff game for the saalem Angels back.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Then nobody batter an eye.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
These are the kind of things that I'd love to
see to be renurtured. I don't know, Max Freed, maybe
as one of those guys. Rundn't possibly right now, one
of those guys. But again, sit down and write your
list of Marquis style pitchers, the guys that really meet
the requirements of Earl weavers definition of momentum. Who are
those guys? I don't even know who those guys are,
(43:42):
So anyhow, that was it. And then momentum begets momentum
and like you're talking about and the best way to
start is to start that comes from another dude, But
it's true. I mean, I'm watching these guys. I'm watching
the Tigers play the Indians right now. I'm like, God,
whoever the Larry Bird is in that team, where the
Michael Jordan on that team or the Tom Brady on
that team, God has got to stand up.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
They got to start down one.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Joe I said, it's a bunch of really nice guys.
They're all players, but they they lack that that heart
and soul kind of guy.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
They they need somebody to do something stupid in the clubhouse.
I mean like really crazy, goofy, nothing, something that you
could ever talk about publicly, because they need they need
to loosen that stuff up, man, because it's so uptight.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
I can't even watch.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I mean, I'm getting nervous watching the one on TV.
So that's that's what it comes down to. The industry
needs to start to nurture more momentum building building starting pitchers,
the guys that can go the third time through the
batting order, and the kind that when when you put
the two names down the night before Probables and you
look at those two names, that's like much see, that's
(44:46):
must watch, a much must see TV.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You just brought back to mind Anthony Rizzo's dancing and
yeahs before referencing the next team postseason. Absolutely, but you
also made me think it's a great point about those
marquee guys, right, and you know when you have them
the next day sometimes that can help you win that
night's Absolutely and best classic example. I'll never forget this.
(45:11):
After the Twins win Game six of the ninety one
World Series, the great Kirby Puckett game, the walk off
home run. We're heading to a Game seven. So after
that game, Jack Morris is the Game seven starter from Minnesota.
He came into the postgame interview room, which, let's face it,
not a lot of guys are going to do right.
A lot of guys who got the ball the next
(45:32):
day for Game seven, they're out of there early. They
don't want to talk to anybody. They're getting their game
faced on, they're getting prepped. Jack Morris is like, yeah,
I'll go in there, goes into the interview room. Asked
about what it's like or what it will be like
pitching a Game seven. He hasn't bat an eye, he says,
in the words of the late great Marvin Gay, let's
get it on. I mean, they don't make them like
(45:53):
that anymore, Joe.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Right, That's that's greatness. That is greatness. Never get in
the way of greatness. And that's the charismatic part of it.
That's those those are the guys that they are must
see there, must watch.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I love that stuff.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
And you could go all the way back to you know,
Gibson and all those dudes and Drysdale.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
You couldn't take then, by the way, to Kelly tried
to take the ball in his hand, he would have
a fight right there to dugout.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
You knew that, and you know that.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I mean, listen, my most recent comp with that for
me was Johnny Lackey. And John Lackey and I were
teammates with the Angels too when he was a pitcher
and I was the bench coach.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Were about drinking.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
But I mean I as a manager to go out
there to get the ball from him, oh my god.
You know, I'd have to go out there, and afterwards
I'd have to go up to him and to dug
out and say something to him.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
And I missen.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
I loved him for it. But that's for me thinking
about all the guys. Johnny Lester had some of that
in him. Also, James Shields had some of that in him.
Two to a certain level. Alex Cobb, I mean the guys. Unfortunately,
I have had those kind of starting pitchers. Also, Alex
Cobb is like one of the best starting pitchers of
the last twenty years that nobody talks about. I absolutely
(46:58):
believe that David Price hate it to come out of
a game. That's what we have to nurture when you
if you're if you're trying to develop minor league starting
pitching to become good major league starting pitching, keep an
eye on the guys that give you the hardest, sincereous,
hardest time when you take them out. There's also the
guys that do the They'll just they'll just argue for
the sake of arguing, so everybody else it's like a
(47:19):
baseball fight.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Hold me back, hold me back. I really don't want
to fight.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
So there's those guys that will give you this the
lip service because they know they got to be that
way because everybody's looking. But then there's the dudes that
really really are kind of upset and almost want to
challenge in the dugout. Try to nurture that. And if
you start nurturing that within your minor league developmental system,
you potentially have some Markey kind of pitchers that could
take you to the promised land.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, it's funny you say that. I always watch the
body language as the manager comes out of the dugout.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Right, And if you see in today's game, there are
a lot of pitchers who will begin to hand the
ball to the manager before I believe it asks for it. Right,
they can't wait to give up the baseball. It's a
little thing. It's a little but it's a little tail
and body language. When that hand goes out to the
manager before the manager even asks for the ball. I
hate to see that, but it does happen a lot.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
That's so when you go to take a lackey out
of the game, you motion to the bullpen before you
cross the line, because because if you if you don't,
and I've seen it I think recently, sometimes these managers
will wait till they get to the mound and they
get talked out of maybe what they wanted to do.
So if you you really, I think as a manager,
unless you go out there intentionally because you do want
to talk to which I learned not to do. The
(48:33):
last time I think I did that just to talk
to them was in Baltimore when Jeff Nemo was pitching
and went out there to pump them up.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
The next pitch was a grand slam. So that taught
me a lesson.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
So you make the sign to the bullpen, to the
umpire before you cross the line, don't go out there.
And because all these guys like I saw sures Er
do it the other night with Snyder in Toronto, and
I was sitting there with Wendy, I said, don't do it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
And then they leave them in the game. Poom.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I think the ball went off the wall on the
next pitch. So make up your mind, stick with it.
That's what you're paid to do. If you really want
to have a conversation, that's different. But if you want,
if you really believe it's the right thing to do,
make the sign before you cross the line.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Great stuff, Joe, and great time of year. A season
is coming to a close, and the best part is
right around the corner. The next time we talk, we're
gonna give our fans and the listeners the best possible
break down you can possibly think of when it comes
to these postseason matchups, beginning with the Wildcard round starting
next Tuesday. We will be all over it. You'll get
(49:31):
the insight here on those matchups that you can't get
anywhere else. Great job, Joe. We'll see you next time
on the Book of.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Joe too, Tommy looking forward to it, buddy.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts
with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. We
are in the final days of the twenty twenty five
(00:24):
Major League Baseball regular season, and I gotta tell you,
this is an all time MVP race that we're talking
about here. I know we've talked about this a lot.
A lot of people have because it's been so fascinating,
but it just got a lot more interesting to me.
Put it this way, Joe, someone is not going to
win the MVP, either a catcher who hit sixty home
(00:47):
runs or an outfielder who hits fifty home runs and
wins a batting title. As we get to these final days, Joe,
where are you on the Great American League MVP debate?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, I mean when you talk about stuff that Judge
has done, because I watched the Yankees, all you hear
a lot of compcerre. He's caught Ruth for this, or
you know, all the glorious Yankee names of the past,
He's caught them. He's fifty plus home runs, all the
different things he's done on an annual basis, and now
you're talking about a batting title, almost a triple crown.
(01:19):
And then on the other side, the other guy is
camp To. He's just past Mickey Mantle. Now he's up
there with Through He's going to catch Maris maybe, and
then on and on. So at the end of the day,
I think always the most glorious record among hitters has
always been the home run title. And to be in
such glorified air as that of Ruth and Maris.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Again ties to the Yankees.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I see, it's really difficult walking away from Raleigh right now.
On top of the fact that the position that he
plays too with Judge has been out a little bit defensively,
although his numbers are fabulous and he is that valuable
to that team winning and getting to the postseason again.
But the fact that Raley kind of been so south
a little bit post All Star Break. I thought that
(02:03):
the participation in the home run derby may have pushed
him back a little bit, but nevertheless, he's regained his momentum.
And I watched the home runs last night more recently,
and the bat speed is absolutely still there. It's incredible,
as bad speed always astounds me. You watch Judge at
a home run. It's like this nice, smooth, strong ball
hits that part of bat ball goes on the ballpark, rawy,
(02:23):
same thing. However, the bat speed just to the eyeball
looks incredible and it's probably the same if you put
it on some kind of measuring device. Anyway, long story short,
I'm voting for Ralely.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Even if he doesn't hit sixty two. Sixty is enough
for you.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, absolutely it is. I still, you know, I still
like the end of the benchmark. I don't even like
how many games is this now that he's played? Is
it the does it pass the number? It's like, how
many games are the of the Mariners plays?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Fifty six?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, we got what four games left here?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, so that's after the one to fifty four season
of Ruth. Nevertheless, I am that impressed. Yes, I'm that impressed.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, it's interesting. I think sixty two he wins it.
And this is going to sound crazy because people are
going to say, well, that's the difference between sixty and
sixty two. Well, sixty two is the record. And it
reminds me of Miguel Cabrera and Mike trout Right. Miguel
Cabrera wins. The Triple Crown. Trout had the better overall numbers,
but it was historic, obviously, the Triple Crown and a
(03:18):
narrative associated with that, and it actually turned out not
that close.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
That year.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Miguel Cabrera had twenty two. I think of the twenty
eight first place votes, or all but eight of them,
say twenty two. I think it was twenty two and eight. Anyway,
it wasn't that close, and people were thinking to be
neck and neck. I think if Ralegh gets the sixty two,
I think he wins. I think here at sixty or
even sixty one, I think it's Judge. I mean, I
(03:42):
know that sounds crazy, don't get me wrong, but it's
hard to walk away from what Judge has done. The
fifty home runs plus a batting title has been done
only by Jimmy Fox and Mickey Mantle. And when you
look at ops, Aaron Judge way ahead eleven thirty six
to nine to fifty nine for Raleigh, and you're like,
wait a second. Raley hits in a tougher ballpark to
(04:02):
hit the Yankee Stadium out there in Seattle. So if
you go buy OPS plus, which factors in how the
park plays and everything around the league. Judge has a
huge advantage two thirteen to one seventy two, so the
offensive number is actually not that close other than the
home runs and RBIs. I'm not saying the vote's not close.
I'm saying slight edged, Judge, but I think it can tip.
(04:24):
And again I recognize that this sounds crazy, but a
record is a record, and as you mentioned, Joe, it's
one of the all time most important records in all sports.
Actually the home run record, the American League Red record
in this case, and for a catcher to do it,
I don't know how you deny Riley at that point.
So you know, listen, last year Bobby wit Junior had
(04:46):
one of the greatest years ever by a shortstop and
could not win the MVP because of Eron's Judge, somebody's
going to go home unhappy here deserving the MVP. It's
just how it is. They picked the same year to
have historic seasons. But right now, this would be my
guess on how the vote turns out. I think right
now is Judge, but Raley has really closed the gap
(05:08):
and still can win it.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Me ask you this regarding like a judge's ops, how
many intentional walks has he received this year compared to.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Roll well a lot more. Yeah. I mean we saw
it the other day where playing the White Sox. That
night the Yankees clinched the division, he was walked intentionally
as the winning run in the ninth inning, and we
all knew it was the exact proper thing to do, right,
and guess what, he scored the winning run, but you
had to put them on base. He's that good.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So again, if you subtracted Judge's intentional walks, which.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Which is thirty four by the way, thirty four leads
the league.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
And then how many does Rawley have?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Do we have any idea on that? You probably have
an idea on that one. I'm just just curious. If
you take those numbers away, then does that push the
ops down to like more comparable numbers or he's still
out of control?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
He has about half, He's got sixteen.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
That's still okay. But nevertheless, I'm just saying that the
kind of treatment that Judge is received, I think has
exceeded what Rawley's received. And just during the course of
the season, who's ever hitting behind Raleigh? I haven't watched
that one as closely, but I don't even know if
it's more intimidating behind Rally than it's been behind Judge
or not. Just meaning like, even if you don't intentionally
(06:19):
walk Judge, you unintentionally intentionally walk Judge. So I mean,
I'm just saying some of that Ops may be bloated
a little bit based on pitching around him and just
the here we go four fingers from the dugout, which
one hundred percent agree with. I would have done the
same thing that that Will did the other night, one
hundred percent, But I just say it it could maybe
just been a little bit tamer in regards to the
(06:41):
disparity between that particular number.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Let me give you Aaron Judges September, all right, Yank,
he's fighting for a division title, three p fifty eight,
betting average, five twenty six on base percentage based more
than half the time and a seven thirty one slug.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I did dip a little bit there in August because
he had that elbow injury coming back from that. But
you know, down stretch here now, listen, I think it
comes out of this, Joe. I don't think there's any
question that Aaron Judge is the better hitter than Calra
no doubt right. If the award is not best Hitter,
there's a Hank Aaron Award, which goes to the best hitter.
Aeron Judge will win that. The question is how do
you value the MVP and cal Raley playing catcher and
(07:22):
putting up this incredible season. I can easily see how
the positional value here can swing it for a lot
of voters. I think it's going to be very close.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That's another point.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
But the other thing, too, is just them, their personalities,
who they are. I mean, Rowley comes across really well too.
I don't know him, so I think, you know, just
on the likability factor, I think they're really like superstar worthy,
just as likable people. And then on top of that,
they're really good at baseball. I don't know how much
that may apply to some voters. I know it should not,
(07:53):
but it may. But from among the fan base, I
think it's even a more difficult discussion because if there
was a villain in this whole thing, it'd be easy
to push it one way or the other.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But there's not.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
These are really good baseball players, good baseball, they're good people.
They're doing astonishing things this year and they're likable, they're
way up there. They're great for the sport. They're the
kind of guys you want to be recognized at the
end of the year based on their performance, just because
of who they are. So there's that part of it too,
comes out as a wash. I believe that they're really
(08:25):
wonderful people on top of everything.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Else, and I do believe Joe that this is also
a part of it in terms of Raleigh's candidacy. The
Seattle Mariners won the American League West for the first
time in twenty four years. I mean, this is historic.
This was the fourth longest drought without winning a division championship.
The Pirates have the longest, going back to ninety two.
(08:48):
Then you have the Marlins and the Rockies been around
since ninety three, still have not won one. You know,
a quarter of a century where Seattle had not won
the division title, and Cam rely carried them down the stretch.
Here they won fifteen of sixteen to basically blow away
the team that's owned that division, that Houston Astros, who
are free falling nine to twelve in September, losing five
(09:11):
in a row. But that has to be a part
of it that he led this team that really didn't
know how to close out a season, closing it out
in like historic fashion year fifteen and one, to win
your first division title in twenty four years, that's going
to count for something.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Those the less you know, the touchdown, he's Tom Brady,
you know, he marches you down the field for the
in the fourth quarter with no time on the clock.
He's Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, all those dudes that take
that last shot. Most of the time it goes in.
I mean, baseball, it's hard to be dominated by one
guy to lead necessarily because it's such It truly is
such a team sport played by individuals and individual numbers.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But to have one guy just really sway it and
push it across the finish line not easy, not easy
to do compared to, like I said, a basketball game
or a football game. Football, if you don't have a quarterback,
you cannot win. You cannot win without that. Basketball it
almost always seems to be the really Lebron James.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
More recently, you.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Know, there's that one guy that can push you over
the finish line. It's unusual in baseball that one guy
to be able to push you over the finish line
and so those those are the kind of things that
I think about also. And it's hard, like if you
were talking about to really how do you how do
you parcel this up and how do you figure this out?
But yeah, to be the guy that gets them to
(10:28):
that to the Promised Land for the first time in
a long time, like you're suggesting there, it's all got
to be considered.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I'm glad I'm not voting. Yeah, it's a difficult one.
And in the meantime, Joe, give me who you think
the team to beat is in the American League now,
I mean I've thought all along Seattle has been dangerous
and the way especially they're playing at home, they're a
handful and the pitching is starting to come around. We
all knew they had really good pitching. I thought they'd
(10:54):
underchieved a little bit, but that is starting to lock down.
This is a team that hits a ton of home runs.
Julio Rodriguez is having an all world second half. I mean,
he's been terrific down this here. We know about Raleigh.
This team can beat you in a lot of ways,
but especially with power. There's a lot of power in
that cl lineup. But I look at the New York
Yankees right now, and they've got it going on. They're starting,
(11:15):
pitching is really good. I know there's some questions about
the bullpen. I'm not too worried about it. I think
the answers are there. And you also talk about power.
I mean, right now, they just are wearing teams out
with even their threat of power. The way teams and
pitchers just kind of work around and nibble, and the
Yankees won't chase. They've been playing some great baseball here.
I would lean towards the Yankees as my theoretical number
(11:38):
one seed, but Seattle's right there with them.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah. I like Seattle.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I've liked them so since they made those acquisitions with
the team.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
You got to keep it on.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right now is Cleveland and you talk about a group
that's pitching well right now, and I know they're not
there yet, but I what they got going on. I'm
watching I'm been watching them the last two nights with
the Tigers.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean, this is one of those This is like
I a digress a bit when I've had my conversations
with my guys before playoff games.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
The look, I never wanted.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Us to get that Look this the fetus, Look this
deer in the headlight, look this like we have no
chance to look.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I mean, but it's all over the Detroit team.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
When I watch them on the field in the dugout,
that's poor. I mean, it's just striking out one after another.
It's it's crazy. And then on the other side of it,
it's just like Cleveland's at that point, I'm just gonna
throw a glove out. They were going to be the
latter day Colorado Rockies from a couple of years ago
all the way to the World Series. So listen, I
really think they they're real dangerous right now, and a
(12:35):
lot of that has to do with they're pitching, and
they got this kind of a swarming style of offense
that I kind of like, you know, primarily a bunch
of no name kind of guys outside of Ramiers maybe.
So yeah, I think Cleveland's really dangerous and I'm watching
this and on the other side of it, Detroit they're lucky,
that kind of lucky that Houston's the team that's right
there with them, because Houston right now is has the
(12:58):
equally the same bad vibe about them. So I don't
know how that's going to shake out right there. But
I Thinkland's gonna hold on to this win that division,
and then they become extremely dangerous because they.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Got it going on right now.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And so I don't like the Yankees as much, I
guess is what I'm saying. I think the Yankees been
more recently benefited from the Baltimore team that really doesn't
care right now, and he got the White Sox that
I think are still battling but nevertheless are really lacking.
So they got the right schedule at the right time
the Yankees have in order to ascend like they have,
whereas the Blue Jays playing the Red Sox right now
(13:32):
a bit more difficult so and plus day flinch their spot.
I mean that I think those two teams are really
dangerous right now, and I think they have one of
those two have the best opportunity to advance within the
American League.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
A great point on Cleveland. Their pitching is unbelievable. You know,
I spoke with Stephen Vote last week. He talked about
how important it was to go to a six man
rotation down the stretch. They had a stretch of where
they played about twenty three games in twenty three days,
and they decided, you know, we need to go to
a six man rotation. And what Carl will is, the
pitching coach who does a great job did there was
he had his starters well, giving them quote unquote rest.
(14:06):
He actually had them throw two bullpen sessions in between starts,
and they worked on pitch shaping and mechanics. They definitely
got Tanner Bybee right in that regard. Same with Gavin Williams.
Those guys have been lights out. They've gone like eighteen
nineteen games in a row the starting pitching staff without
giving up more than two runs. I mean, that is
just crazy. But I still think, Joey, you get to
a postseason environment, you need power. You have to hit
(14:28):
home runs. And I love watching the style that they
play just as much as you do. But man, it's
tough to win games in the postseason without hitting home runs.
And I just think the lack of power is going
to catch up to them. But they will keep games
close and they are a fantastic defensive team. They will
not make mistakes. You are going to have to beat
(14:48):
the Guardians. Love watching them play, but I think against
the power that Seattle has, New York has, even Toronto has,
I think it's gonna be a tough way for them
to win a series, but they are dangerous. The confidence
they're playing with right now, it's a most unbreakable love
watching that team play.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, the momentum is in their favor right now.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And then something you had said earlier, I'm not as
high on the Yankee bullpen. I don't like what I'm
seeing there overall. I really would be concerned with that.
I know that Freetz pitch better more recently he's got
it back on track Hoddan, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I just I'm not seeing it. I know they hit
home runs and they have to pop.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I get all that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
But against good pitching, a good pitching staff with a
well laid out plan, I still think could put that down.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I've been part of that. You know, with the Cubs,
power can.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Go away based on great execution of pitches and a
really good staff. Like the Mets to the twenty fifteen Cubs, man,
they just shut us down.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I saw it in two thousand and five versus the
White Sox with the Angels, where we won the first
game of that series, and then after that they won
that controversial game in Chicago on that ball in the dirt,
not in the dirt, or Prisiensky man of first base,
Doug Atting changes as calls, Eric Crawford backs him up,
and all of a sudden, we can't get into a bullpen.
(16:06):
After that, I mean Garland and the contourers and all
these dudes, Burley, we could not get in a bullpen.
We could not get in the bullpen, and we did
have some pops. So I don't know, I get it,
and I know what's the refrain is. But at some
point I'm looking for that to turn. And the only
way it does turn is by a team having spectacular
starting pitching or pitching in general, because you have to
(16:27):
have the pin too. So that's what it's going to take,
I think, to knock the home run hitting World Series
winning thrown down a notch. It's going to have to
come from mistake free baseball like you suggested, and also
a real group of starting pitching more key kind of
mashup pitching, which doesn't really exist anywhere. That's going to
be part of party is the word momentum today and
(16:48):
it's going to be part of the quote of the day.
But that's where I see Cleveland is having an opportunity,
and I like Seattle's pitching.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Too, I do.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I like the kid Woo up there, and of course
Castillo when he's right, and he looked really motivated last night.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
There's a lot to like on.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Those Yeah, it's Cleveland also has that bullpen you're talking about, Joe.
I mentioned their starters, but I like their bullpen a
lot with a lot of different options, even without Emmanuel
class A, which is amazing when you think about it.
He had been one of the best closures in the game.
It hasn't been around here these two months. So did
you see sho Hey Otani pitch the other night in Arizona? Joe,
(17:24):
we need to talk about show Hey Otani, and if
you're Dave Roberts, what do you do with your rotation
heading into the playoffs. We'll do that right after this
on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book
(17:46):
of Joe podcasts, Show Hey Otani. I'm always fascinating by him, Joe.
I mean, I hope people never get used to the
fact what he's doing is absolutely crazy. It's bunkers leading
off games and starting pitching. Watching him pitch in Arizona.
It's like they took all the guardrails off. Through ninety
one pitches he threw six innings, Joey had nine swings
(18:08):
and misses on his four seam fastball. I haven't seeing
sho Hey pitch off his fastball like this in a
long time. He looked that good. The nine swings and
misses on the fastball were second most in his career.
In the sixth inning, his last thinning of work, he
averaged ninety nine miles an hour. That was the hardest
of his career. He hit one oh one point two
(18:31):
with one of his fastballs. He's thrown four pitches this
month at one oh one or more for the first
time in his career. I mean, he looked really good.
And if you do the math, he's lined up to
have six days of rest going into wild Card Game
number one. That tells me Joe and the way he
threw the baseball on his staff with Blake Snell and
(18:53):
Tyler Glasnow and Yester and Noobu Yamamoto, he's the number
one starter for Dave Roberts. What do you think of that? Show?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Starting Game one?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
No doubt.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think they've been building in this the whole time.
We talked about that when he was coming back from
his injury and how they were going to like build
him into five innings and they had the end game
in mind. They worked it from the last game of
the World Series possibly and moved it backwards. You always,
I've always been big on that. Whenever you're building a schedule, man,
you always played backwards. You never played forward. So none
of this surprises me. And the thing you just mentioned,
(19:24):
and this is my observation when I was with him brother,
when he has command of his fastball, heads up, because
all that other stuff becomes even more wicked. When these
guys have to honor a fastball that he's throwing where
he wants to, when he wants to. That makes everything
else exaggeratingly better.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
So that's it. Because when I first saw him, he had,
you know, some he had.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
His volocity was pretty good, wasn't up to where like
you said one on one point two. However, without the
command of his fastball, the other stuff didn't play as
big because hitters didn't have to respect him as much.
But when his fastball command and velocity is playing, Wow,
this guy becomes he is another level. Whatever that level
is that he is, he becomes even more differ So
(20:05):
that's it, And yes, I would the six day is perfect,
and it does not surprise. I'm happy for him, A
big fan as a player and as a person. I
really enjoyed my time working with him. So I, as
you said, don't get used to it. Don't ever get
used to this, because this is that cool. But never
be surprised either by what he's capable of doing.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Joe, looking back on what he's done this year, he
has hit more balls one hundred miles an hour plus
than any batter in baseball, and since he got on
the mound in June, he has the third most one
hundred mile per hour pitches of any starting pitcher in baseball.
I mean, that's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
He lives, he lives at the sentry mark. Right, It's
just listen, it's you know. And I was there when
all the detractors got to choose one or the other.
He's been hurt several times with his arm. He's got
to give it up. Something's going to suffer eventually. It
will eventually he will have to probably make a choice.
And we've talked about this one more arm injury and
(21:00):
it's probably going to be that's it. He's an offensive
player only. But in the meantime, I know this is
what he wants. I know this is how he's motivated.
We haven't seen it before, we've talked about this. I
don't know the next time we shall. So uh, I said, enjoy,
enjoy the right, folks, because it is that good. He
is that special, it is that different. He's like, there's
the major leagues, and then there's the then there's actually
(21:22):
a league above that, and then there's show Hey league
above that. So he is that he's the only person
in that league. So let's just enjoy it and watch
it all the way through. Because you talk about mussy TV.
If anybody is going to be able to spike TV
ratings in our postseason, would be the Dodgers and show
Hey not only playing but pitching in a particular game,
(21:43):
and you know, the tune in factor is going to
be incredible.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
He's gone past fifty home runs and one hundred walks
and stolen nineteen bases. Nobody in the history of baseball
has ever done that. And I know that's cherry picking
a little bit, but we're looking at things that are
you know, a lot of guys do one or the other.
You know, they run, they hit for power, they control
the strike zone. He does it all while pitching like
a Game one postseason starter. I mean, it's just absolutely crazy.
(22:10):
And in the meantime, Joe, I think you look at
the LA Dodgers and we'll talk about their bullpen in
a second, because that's a major issue. But as you said,
it's almost like things are working out exactly the way
they planned, backloading all the plans to make sure that
they got to October with their pitching healthy. And on point.
We just talked about Otani throwing the ball better than
he has all year. That's worked out perfectly the way
(22:33):
they slow played him. Blake Snell his last four starts,
he has an zero point four seven ERA, Tyler glassnew
is throwing the ball better than he has all year.
And Yashinobu Yamamoto, he's the only one who actually carried
some volume this year, getting close to one hundred and
seventy innings. He's been great. Those are four incredible options.
And then last night Clayton Kershaw pitched an inning out
(22:55):
of the bullpen. How about that four hundred and fifty
four career appearances. That was the fourth time he came
out of the bullpen for a regular season game. They
have an embarrassment of riches. So I don't know how
he orders his rotation for the wildcard round, but I
do believe it begins with Otani, probably Yamamoto behind him,
and then Snell. We'll see what he does, but those
(23:16):
are all good options. The question, Joe is, if you're
Dave Roberts, how do you end the game? Now, this
is really interesting. Roki Sasaki, he hasn't pitched in the
major league since May. It's shoulder impingement. They send him
down on rehab about a month or so ago, and
he's making his start, slowly working his way back, and
then about a week ago they said, you know what,
let's put this guy in the bullpen. He made two
(23:38):
appearances in the bullpen in Oklahoma City and he hit
one hundred miles an hour. They bring up to the
big leagues and here's their plan. Let's give him two
high leverage spots to pitch out of the bullpen in
a major league game. We'll start an ending clean We're
not going to drop him in at a dirty eating.
Let's see how he handles that you never know. Joe, right,
a guy, a starting pitcher. You know, how as long
does he warm up, how much time does he need?
(23:59):
Has he handle getting into the middle of the game. Well,
he pitched against araz O a last night and lights out,
clean inning, three batters, two strikeouts, He hit one hundred
miles an hour. He averaged ninety nine. Now his average
fastball velocity is ninety six. So yeah, like a lot
of guys, is gonna play up if you know you're
only going one inning. And his splitter, which he normally
(24:21):
throws eighty five, was up to eighty seven, so his
stuff definitely played up. He's gonna get one more trial here.
So to speak out of the bullpen, Joe would not
surprise me. If Roki Sasaki is the closer for the
La Dodgers in the postseason. I know this. David Roberts
is not gonna hesitate to bring him into a high
(24:41):
leveraged spot as long as it's a clean inning. And
they they just added another impact arm and this could
be found money for the Dodgers with Roki Sasaki. Would
you use Sasaki as your closer, a guy who's no
history of closing, but his closer's stuff in a postseason
environment was David Price.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I mean, that's that's that's not difficult.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, absolutely, they know what they got. They know I
watched train and pitch more recently and still decent stuff,
but not what it had been. And if in fact
the biggest thing would be the health of this fellow,
would be my only concern. And if they're convinced that
he's fine, there's there'll still be like some restrictive plates
on him. There's going to make sure that they doesn't
exceed any limits. The fact with the clean inning, that's great,
(25:25):
but there's going to be a moment when that might
go away as it progresses more deeply into the playoffs,
if in fact he shows that he's well, because my
my biggest concern with the dirty getting would just be
like we did with Johnny Lester, the fact that he
had such a hard time.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
With the running game that it may bother him.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
But otherwise you just you don't really have to worry
about that as much. But yes, you still want to
get him out there clean, just let him rock and roll.
But I'd have no issues with that. My only like
I said, the only thing of the training staff doctors
would have to assure him everything's groovy.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
He's fine, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But even with that, there's the days resting between and
the way the schedule works off and the works out.
In the playoffs, you have so many days off that
you have built ins in regards to getting guys down
and giving the necessary time. And there's you know, there's
no guarantees you have to like safe situation, two three nights.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
In a row.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
So there's all the built ins too. So there's a
lot of stuff working in their favor right there. But
for me, no problem whatsoever. David Price did it and
he was really young at that time. And if it
wasn't for David raised, don't go to the World Series
that year because he came in in Game seven of
the ALCS and it was a three to one ball game,
ground ball the hockey and we're going to the World Series.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, no bigger spot than that. Here's my question for you, Joe,
as a manager, when you've got you mentioned shrine in right,
and we know how much these battled health issues, and
you've got someone like Tanner Scott. I look at those guys,
I don't see them as reliable right now. Now you
look at the back of the baseball card and you go, yeah,
I mean I want to use those guys like that's
why they're here. You know how concerning is it as
(26:56):
a manager and that kind of push pull between trust
and what you're looking at, because right now, when I'm
looking at Tanner Scotta, ball is not playing the way
it should and with trying to something about him not
quite the same either. I can't just to me anyway
looking at trying it and Scott. I just can't look
at them and say this is where I'm planning to
(27:17):
win the game late the ball is going to be
in their hands. I've got to find a different avenue
right now in a postseason environment, because, as you know,
one game can be all the difference between going home
and moving on.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I live that too, And even in the twenty sixteen
year old series where the better part of our bullpen
at that time, where the youngsters CJ. Edwards, Mike Montgomery,
they really ascended at that point, and so we relied.
I relied heavily on our role as chapman to get
us through that moment, just for the same reason as
you're suggesting right now, because you don't know. The game
can get away from you so quickly that once the
(27:49):
other team grabs the momentum to just pull somebody out
of the bullpen again, somebody that you really don't see
his lockdown right now, that you could really feel like
trustworthy about. It's difficult. It's difficult to even permit that
situation to blossom. That's really what it comes down to.
So I've been there also, and so it's tough. It
is very tough, and guys like Scott trying and probably
(28:10):
I don't even know off the top of my head
who the other alternatives are. But if you could get
those guys into the game earlier, or do you still
have to rely on them late?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Got something that they're going to have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
They know, being the Dodgers know, the staff knows how
much they can trust these guys by their conversations, by
just watching them from the side, the body language, the
way the ball's coming out of their hand, all the
things that nobody they're not measurables in a sense that
you could put a gun on it or look at
data and try to figure it out. This is just
(28:41):
the eyeball test. And when the eyeball test doesn't match up. Man,
it's hard. It's hard to put your trust out there.
So again, this is a situation where they may rely
more heavily on the hot hand, and maybe one of
the young guys develops the hot hand situation like with
the Detroit did last year, with some of the youngsters
got hot and all of a sudden, you got these
(29:01):
hot guys coming out of the bullpen. Maybe not necessarily
a track record, but all of a sudden, they got
their blinders on. All they've seen is the catcher's glove.
They get caught up in the momentum and they just
don't know enough to be scared or frightened or uncertain.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I've been through it, and it's not easy when you
don't have that total trust in the person coming in.
It's hard to tell your pitching coach called down and
gets so and so up. It's really difficult.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well, I would not be surprised if we're looking at
another Yankees Dodgers World Series. But the caveat to that
is both teams have questions about how they finish off games.
And we've talked before, Joe about no home field advantage
in postseason play in the last three years, home teams
are sixty and sixty four. Here's another step, because we're
going to talk about your pick for the best team
(29:48):
coming out of the National League, not your World Series team,
but if you had the seed teams going in the
team to most beat. But looking at the way the
tournament as I call it, has played out in the
twelve team format in the last three years, number six teams.
So the last team in in each league has as
many wins in the postseason as the number one seed.
(30:08):
Let me say that again, the sixth seed has won
as many postseason games in the last three years as
the number one seed. So there is no chuck in
the baseball tournament in this twelve team format. But I
will tell you, and all due respect to Philly, which
is just rolling, especially at home, they are tough to
take out Milwaukee. Love to watch that team play. I'd
(30:31):
like to see a team that just sprays the ball
around and runs the bases win a World Series, and
they can do it. But I'm looking at the LA
Dodgers peaking at the right time. The talent on that
team is off the charts. I don't think anybody can
match their swing and miss what they have in the rotation.
For me, Joe, if I were seeding teams, I would
have the LA Dodgers right now number one. Who do
(30:51):
you have?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, I mean, I like it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
To me, it's a toss up between Milwaukee and Philadelphia.
I still I'm staying with that. I think both of
those groups are Not that the Dodgers aren't hungry, They're
getting hungrier as seasons in progress, but they just really
haven't played this uber level of baseball this year that
everybody expected of them from the beginning. And I know
that a lot of their plans have been pointing towards
the end. And I think they're gonna play. They're gonna
(31:16):
They're gonna advance somewhat, but I don't think they're gonna
go all the.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Way this year.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I think the hungrier versions of the Milwaukee Phillies, and
my outlier team would be San Diego. Actually, the fact
that again, these are the hungry lions within the group,
within the desert there they want it. I think I'm listening.
I'm not incriminating anybody here, not suggesting anything other than that,
I think that the way these guys are going about
their business and their recent history is going to fuel
(31:42):
them a little bit more so I do. I love
Milwaukee and the way we play. We've talked about that.
San Diego is just the enigma team, up and down,
up and down whatever.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
They still don't don't even have ninety wins, which is
always I mean, when teams get to the playoffs with
that ninety ones, it always bothers me, just my baseball sensibilities.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I know. There's the Phillies and again.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I watched them last night and they missed trait turned
and they're still They've turned up the dial and I
like some of their pitching there too, although you know,
the extended part of the rotation without Zach Wheeler difficult
to imagine. But if I had to pick one, if
I had to pick one, I'm saying the Phillies, although
I think I love Milwaukee, and I'm just saying I
(32:22):
think San Diego is going to overcome if they end
up playing one another of the Dodgers this year too.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
One team we did not mention and we will talk
about them after this break is a team I call
a manager's nightmare, the New York Mets, And I'm explain
why I call them a manager's nightmare. When we get
back on the Book of Joe, Welcome back to the
(32:50):
Book of Joe. I called them New York Mets a
manager's nightmare, Joe, because I believe, and you correct me
if I'm wrong, because you know better than I. One
of the worst feelings as a manager is going into
a game and not knowing how you can finish it.
I mean, yes, he's got it. With Diaz at the back,
with the New York Mets and Carlos Mendoza the manager,
they get no length from their starting pitching, and night
(33:12):
after night after night, he has to find options, like
in the fifth inning, to try to somehow get the
game deadwin Diaz, and yeah, you can do that for
a game or two, maybe a series, maybe even a week.
The Mets have been trying to do that for four months.
Only the Colorado Rockies have fewer starts of six innings
(33:33):
than the New York Mets, and they're hanging on by
a thread here. Since the middle of June, they're thirty
six and fifty three. The Mets have been a bad
team longer than they've been a good team. They've used
more pitchers than any team in the history of the game,
and it's all caught up to them, the fact that
(33:54):
they have not gotten on any length and right now
down the stretch they were lying on three guys. A
month ago were in the rotation of the Binghamton Rumble Ponies.
I mean, it is a hard way to win, knowing
you have so many outs to cover every single night.
They may still get in. I don't know, But Joe,
(34:14):
you talk also about body language. Tell me what you
see when you're looking at the New York Mets, because
I see some of that hang dog look as well
that you don't want to see.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, they're expecting them. They're not expecting to win. I'm
not saying they're expecting to lose, but they're definitely not
expecting to win. And as you just suggested, as the
game got deeper, they're waiting for the other shoe to
fall somehow. Now, just going back a little bit, you
talked about starting pitching. It's the industry's fault the way
the starting pitching is today.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And they're right at the forefront of it. They didn't
want to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I don't even know who they could have bought in
the off season anyway, But you know, you're bringing homes
and men, they try to resurrect them, et cetera, and
it's not working out train otherwise. I love the kid
McClain though, don't get me wrong. That guy's nice and
they brought him up from their system. But we're not
nurturing the starting pitching. It's not a it's not a
part of the formula coming through the minor leagues, drafting,
(35:08):
developing big leagues. We want them only to pitch four
or five. That's what they've been trained to do. They're
not trained to go six to seven. They don't even
know what it's like to fight through the third time
through the batting order to play deeper into the game.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
They don't even know what it's like.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
The Marquee matchup is a thing of the past, and
that that's also going to be part of what I
was going to talk about at the very end. And
so I think it's a built in industry fault listening
to analytics so much to the point where the third
time through the batting orders becomes such a kryptonite kind
of a situation that we don't even want to give
guys the opportunity to figure out if they can or cannot.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Do these kind of things.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So when you get faced with moments like this, to me,
it's a built in it's your own fault for nurturing
this kind of a method, and it's the method they
wanted at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
This is what they thought.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Would work, and now they're finding out that it doesn't.
But everybody is when you have teams that are like
I said, there's so many teams that are still solvent,
even two games over five hundred that are solvent regarding
possibly getting into the playoffs. If you have starting pitchers,
like a real legitimate starting staff that these guys make
most of their starts for the during the course of
(36:14):
the year, you're going.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
To be in your ninety wins right now.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
If you got legitimate major league starting pitchers, they get
out there all the time. And I listen with the
rays we did that. That was the thing I used
to challenge my guys on an annual basis, the starters.
The challenge was a thousand innings out of you guys,
not just five, maybe six, maybe seven guys total, But
you wanted a thousand innings out of your starting pitcher,
and it's impossible anyway. I know that, but when it happens,
(36:37):
when your guys are capable of.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Doing that, you're pretty good.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You're gonna be pretty good, and your bullpen's going to
be better too. So anyway, it's a built in. It's
an industry's fault. So I really have no sympathy for that.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Well, Ye're one hundred percent right. This is built in.
You watch the way teams play the regular season. Dodgers
a good example of this. They're pitching their pitchers or
starters with more rest and fewer innings. You know, the
Dodgers are by far the fewest starts of four days
or fewer this year, Like, by far, no one's close
to them, and no one is putting the pedal to
(37:09):
the floor to try to win those ninety plus games
you're talking about, Joe, we're talking about two straight years
now where no team has won one hundred games. It's
almost by design because you're willing to back off your
pitchers and qualify for the tournament. I hate to put
it that way, but it's true. And you're seeing teams
you can play around five hundred baseball for five months.
You're in the thick of things. And I just talked
(37:30):
about how the six team can beat the number one
seed easily in the baseball postseason. So what's the risk
reward risk is try to win as many as possible.
What does that get you? Doesn't get you much, So
just get in and that's what we're seeing. David Stearns
worked this plant to perfection of twenty nineteen with the
Brewers short starts right out the work. They did really well.
(37:51):
It worked a little bit last year for the Mets.
Well that more than a little bit. They got to
the NLCS. But you're right, it's blown up on them
this year. And the other thing, Joe is, look at
what the Mets did at the trade deadline. They need
a bullpen help. They got Ryan Helsley and he needed
outfield help. They got Cedric Mullins. They go to Chicago
for a series this week, big series, hanging on by
a thread. Last week of the season. They get a
(38:12):
close game in the eighth inning, there's no Ryan Helsley.
Mendoza asked Diaz to get six outs. It tells you
how far out of the circle of trust Hellsley is.
And he began that game with Cedric Mullins on the bench.
It compromised his defense to have Nimo play center fields.
Darling Marte leftfield for the onlyest six time all year,
getting out there because he needed more offense, because he
(38:34):
knows the Mets have to outscore other teams to win
a game. Those are two huge whiffs. And talking about
Helsley and Mullens, and again I've said this, Joe. You're
talking about guys who've been in one organization their whole
career ten years, and then you drop them into a
playoff race in New York and say go get them.
You've got to do it right away. That has really
harmed the New York Mets. And I'm with youa McLean
(38:54):
I like him. He spins the baseball literally more in
terms of RPMs than anybody in baseball, but he also
has to be protected. You're not going to have him
throw seven eight innings. He's never pitched a six month
of a professional season before, so this is all coming back,
you know, to haunt the New York Mets in terms
of lack of length from their rotation. And again I
(39:15):
sympathize with Carlos Mendoza. How you get through a game
knowing you pretty much have to score six or seven runs,
and you're gonna have to keep leaning on these bullpen
guys night after night. That's a hard walk to try
to get to October.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
First of all, I mean, I listen when they got
Hellsley and Mullins. I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I like those guys. I've seen Hellsley and Saint Louis
outs standing in. Mullins was always a good player. Like
you're saying, it's just to dump him into a New
York Pennant race or something went awry there. But when
that first occurred, I thought bully for them. I thought
they were both good moves. I did, so that's that's it.
And on the other side, Carlos Mendoz I think is
a good man.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
I like him. I like him a lot. Obviously does
a great job I do. I like him a lot.
I like his demeanor.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
He doesn't show the emotion in the dugout when things
go poorly when I when I recess upthing. I like
what he says and how he says it. So hopefully
none of this falls on him, because I really do
this guy's going to be a good manager for many
years to come. He reeks of old school kind of training.
He did it the right way how he got there.
So I'm a big fan, so hopefully they don't lay
(40:19):
any blame on him. But everything you've laid out there
is absolutely accurate. And you get to that point when
you start bringing your closer in for six outs in
this time of the year, My god, if you even
get to the playoffs, that closer is not going to
be the guy you've saw all year or somebody you
can count on. It's going to fall apart at some point.
It's just hard, difficult than possible to try to scratch
(40:41):
a guy like that for that length of period of
time and expect a consistent level of good result.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
It's just not going to happen. So anyway, I like
the deals.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
It's not working out, and I hope Mendoza doesn't take
a hit on this because he's done a great job
and I like him.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
He's going to be a good manager for many years
to come.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, I'm with you on Carlos. I think he does
a great job. That the roster construction, you know, the
lack of length from starting pitching. He's got nothing to
do with the manager here, but it's a tough way
again to get through a game on a nightly basis.
So we've got the Tigers and the Mets and the
Astros all collapsing down here in September. We will see
if any of those teams, or at least a couple
(41:18):
of them, squeeze into October, and we'll see. Momentum does
it matter? Not as much as we think. I've seen
a lot of teams struggle down the stretch, Joe and
still go on a run. Two thousand Yankees come to mind.
It can be done, but you'd much rather be playing
like Seattle right now, where you feel like you could
take on the world and win. So, Joe, you've teased
your final thought here for a while here I'm looking
(41:40):
forward to it. You always end our episodes of the
Book of Joe with words of wisdom. So what do
you have for us today?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Well, you use it again, and I mean it really
does a lot. Momentum has a lot to do with
this time of the year. But as one of the
quotes here is like from our boy or a Weaver,
momentum question mark momentum is the next day starting pitcher,
and we've That's what I was trying to allude to there.
Without the training of real Marquee style starting pitchers which
(42:09):
we were used to growing up. I don't even know
even even in the recent past. It's not like the
distant past where when you talk about momentum, your next
day starting pitcher, Who are those guys? How many of
those guys exist today? That's that's what I was trying
to figure out. Who are the marquee guys. I think
Schemes absolutely is a marquee guy. I think show Hey
(42:30):
obviously is a marquee guy. A guy that you can
you know he's pitching the next day. You might your
bullpen might be a little bit tard. You have to
really push to win a game because you know this
guy can carry the game more deeply the next day.
But I, you know, to sit down and I didn't
do the exercise yet, but sit down and write marquee matchup.
Marquee kind of starting pitchers that the fans have to
(42:53):
see and that you as a manager, I feel really
good about this guy going to get deeper into the
game and not having to use your bullpen. Listen, even
in the Asalem Angels back in the day or o'lugu,
I went.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Up to him before a playoff game.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
This is in nineteen eighty two, I think right, and
I said, Socio the way the innings Manana nine innings tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
This is a kid.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
And then also at Kirk McCaskill, he went nine innings
in a playoff game for the saalem Angels back.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Then nobody batter an eye.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
These are the kind of things that I'd love to
see to be renurtured. I don't know, Max Freed, maybe
as one of those guys. Rundn't possibly right now, one
of those guys. But again, sit down and write your
list of Marquis style pitchers, the guys that really meet
the requirements of Earl weavers definition of momentum. Who are
those guys? I don't even know who those guys are,
(43:42):
So anyhow, that was it. And then momentum begets momentum
and like you're talking about and the best way to
start is to start that comes from another dude, But
it's true. I mean, I'm watching these guys. I'm watching
the Tigers play the Indians right now. I'm like, God,
whoever the Larry Bird is in that team, where the
Michael Jordan on that team or the Tom Brady on
that team, God has got to stand up.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
They got to start down one.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Joe I said, it's a bunch of really nice guys.
They're all players, but they they lack that that heart
and soul kind of guy.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
They they need somebody to do something stupid in the clubhouse.
I mean like really crazy, goofy, nothing, something that you
could ever talk about publicly, because they need they need
to loosen that stuff up, man, because it's so uptight.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
I can't even watch.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I mean, I'm getting nervous watching the one on TV.
So that's that's what it comes down to. The industry
needs to start to nurture more momentum building building starting pitchers,
the guys that can go the third time through the
batting order, and the kind that when when you put
the two names down the night before Probables and you
look at those two names, that's like much see, that's
(44:46):
must watch, a much must see TV.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You just brought back to mind Anthony Rizzo's dancing and
yeahs before referencing the next team postseason. Absolutely, but you
also made me think it's a great point about those
marquee guys, right, and you know when you have them
the next day sometimes that can help you win that
night's Absolutely and best classic example. I'll never forget this.
(45:11):
After the Twins win Game six of the ninety one
World Series, the great Kirby Puckett game, the walk off
home run. We're heading to a Game seven. So after
that game, Jack Morris is the Game seven starter from Minnesota.
He came into the postgame interview room, which, let's face it,
not a lot of guys are going to do right.
A lot of guys who got the ball the next
(45:32):
day for Game seven, they're out of there early. They
don't want to talk to anybody. They're getting their game
faced on, they're getting prepped. Jack Morris is like, yeah,
I'll go in there, goes into the interview room. Asked
about what it's like or what it will be like
pitching a Game seven. He hasn't bat an eye, he says,
in the words of the late great Marvin Gay, let's
get it on. I mean, they don't make them like
(45:53):
that anymore, Joe.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Right, That's that's greatness. That is greatness. Never get in
the way of greatness. And that's the charismatic part of it.
That's those those are the guys that they are must
see there, must watch.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I love that stuff.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
And you could go all the way back to you know,
Gibson and all those dudes and Drysdale.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
You couldn't take then, by the way, to Kelly tried
to take the ball in his hand, he would have
a fight right there to dugout.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
You knew that, and you know that.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I mean, listen, my most recent comp with that for
me was Johnny Lackey. And John Lackey and I were
teammates with the Angels too when he was a pitcher
and I was the bench coach.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Were about drinking.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
But I mean I as a manager to go out
there to get the ball from him, oh my god.
You know, I'd have to go out there, and afterwards
I'd have to go up to him and to dug
out and say something to him.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
And I missen.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
I loved him for it. But that's for me thinking
about all the guys. Johnny Lester had some of that
in him. Also, James Shields had some of that in him.
Two to a certain level. Alex Cobb, I mean the guys. Unfortunately,
I have had those kind of starting pitchers. Also, Alex
Cobb is like one of the best starting pitchers of
the last twenty years that nobody talks about. I absolutely
(46:58):
believe that David Price hate it to come out of
a game. That's what we have to nurture when you
if you're if you're trying to develop minor league starting
pitching to become good major league starting pitching, keep an
eye on the guys that give you the hardest, sincereous,
hardest time when you take them out. There's also the
guys that do the They'll just they'll just argue for
the sake of arguing, so everybody else it's like a
(47:19):
baseball fight.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Hold me back, hold me back. I really don't want
to fight.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
So there's those guys that will give you this the
lip service because they know they got to be that
way because everybody's looking. But then there's the dudes that
really really are kind of upset and almost want to
challenge in the dugout. Try to nurture that. And if
you start nurturing that within your minor league developmental system,
you potentially have some Markey kind of pitchers that could
take you to the promised land.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, it's funny you say that. I always watch the
body language as the manager comes out of the dugout.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Right, And if you see in today's game, there are
a lot of pitchers who will begin to hand the
ball to the manager before I believe it asks for it. Right,
they can't wait to give up the baseball. It's a
little thing. It's a little but it's a little tail
and body language. When that hand goes out to the
manager before the manager even asks for the ball. I
hate to see that, but it does happen a lot.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
That's so when you go to take a lackey out
of the game, you motion to the bullpen before you
cross the line, because because if you if you don't,
and I've seen it I think recently, sometimes these managers
will wait till they get to the mound and they
get talked out of maybe what they wanted to do.
So if you you really, I think as a manager,
unless you go out there intentionally because you do want
to talk to which I learned not to do. The
(48:33):
last time I think I did that just to talk
to them was in Baltimore when Jeff Nemo was pitching
and went out there to pump them up.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
The next pitch was a grand slam. So that taught
me a lesson.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
So you make the sign to the bullpen, to the
umpire before you cross the line, don't go out there.
And because all these guys like I saw sures Er
do it the other night with Snyder in Toronto, and
I was sitting there with Wendy, I said, don't do it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
And then they leave them in the game. Poom.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I think the ball went off the wall on the
next pitch. So make up your mind, stick with it.
That's what you're paid to do. If you really want
to have a conversation, that's different. But if you want,
if you really believe it's the right thing to do,
make the sign before you cross the line.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Great stuff, Joe, and great time of year. A season
is coming to a close, and the best part is
right around the corner. The next time we talk, we're
gonna give our fans and the listeners the best possible
break down you can possibly think of when it comes
to these postseason matchups, beginning with the Wildcard round starting
next Tuesday. We will be all over it. You'll get
(49:31):
the insight here on those matchups that you can't get
anywhere else. Great job, Joe. We'll see you next time
on the Book of.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Joe too, Tommy looking forward to it, buddy.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
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