August 12, 2025 • 48 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci begin with an analysis of the Milwaukee Brewers as the best team in baseball, and the crucial element they are missing that could end up holding them back. They give their feelings on Padres vs. Dodgers, and will it be the Mariners or Astros in the American League West? They talk discuss the New York Yankees and if Max Fried and Aaron Judge will overcome their struggles. And Joe spills the wisdom as September looms large!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast
with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. Joe, Today, I
want to talk about something that your old buddy, William
(00:24):
Shakespeare called the root of all heartache. It was not
air travel and it was not the DMV. And he
guesses on what Shakespeare called the root of all heartache redundancy.
Not quite, but I like that guess expectations, okay, And
I want to talk about how expectations color the way
(00:45):
we look at Major League Baseball teams, because there are
some people that still have this trouble of thinking of
the Milwaukee Brewers as the best team in baseball, right
because they don't fit our expectations. We keep saying the Dodgers,
the Dodgers, the Dodgers, because that's how we were conditioned
to think. They won the World Series. They added on
in the offseason. But Joe, in my mind, there's no
question the Milwaukee Brewers are the best team in baseball.
(01:09):
I mean, what a run they're on twenty five and
four in the last twenty nine games. You go back
sixty five games, They're forty nine and sixteen, and they
kind they play the kind of baseball that, let's face it,
all of us think is the kind of baseball that
should win in October at any time of year. Actually,
(01:29):
is this an overachieving team, Joe? Or do you feel
like the Milwaukee Brewers are legitimately the best team in
baseball no matter what our expectations were coming in.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
What are they lacking? I don't know what they're lacking
to not be able to be considered that. I watch
them often, Murph and I go way back to Skipper there.
I love the way they play baseball. They play complete
game of baseball. They play all facets. They hustle all
the time. If there's something goes awry, Murph gets it
straighten out very quickly. But I really enjoy watching them.
(02:00):
This is this is my version in my mind's eye,
would Bay Ball should look like. And listen, they are
very progressive in a lot of ways when it comes
to their analytical information because for years, the Brewers, to me,
they had their defenders in the right position. That's the
one thing when we played against them with the Cubbies,
I was always impressed by their defenders were set up
(02:21):
right properly, and you always got you got kind of
burned once in a while because they would absolutely catch.
We catch line drives. That was my line with the Rays,
And they catch line drives, they catch the hard hit balls.
Run the basis great, take extra bases. They're willing to
take the blooper to the opposite field to score a point.
Defense is solid. I mean they they catch the ball
and they're pitching. They got they got some really good
(02:43):
arms with drift. Looks pretty darn good right now. That
bullpen McGill can stop anybody. I don't know there. I
don't see the flow. I don't see the flow.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
To your point, Joe, And this obviously checks all the
boxes that you and I like to see. And when
we watch a baseball team play base running, number one
base running team in baseball defense, they're number three team speed.
They're number two starting pitching. They're number three wins by
one run, number one best record against winning teams, which
(03:15):
I like to look at. They're number one hitting with
two strikes, they're number five hitting with runners in scoring position.
They're the best team in baseball at it strikeout percentage.
They're sixth. So you're saying what is this team missing?
And I'll give you the answer because there is one
thing they're missing, and that's home run power.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah power, You right.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
They're twentieth in Major League Baseball in hitting home runs. Now,
if you look back, the last five teams that won
the World Series all finished no lower than fourth in
home runs. And to find any World champion that was
not in the top half in Major Leaue Baseball and
(03:57):
hitting home runs, you have to go back a decade
to the twenty fifteen Kansas City Royals. Game has changed
a lot, as you know, josein twenty fifteen, it's harder
than ever to get a base hit. There's very few
opportunities to really string hits together, especially get in the
postseason when rotations tighten up, bullpen usage tightens up. And
(04:18):
the ability to change the game quickly with a home
runs the one thing the Milwaukee Brewers do not have.
But do you believe that can stop them in a
postseason environment?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, how many top five finishes or indicators and the
other components of the game equal power, That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You know they do so many things. Well, I think
they're one, Like, they don't have one path to win
a game like I look at San Diego, right, and
I love San Diego, but their way to winning the
World Series is through their bullpen. I don't think there's
any other way for them. They're not a great offensive team.
They're starting. Pitching is just okay. Milwaukee can beat you
(04:58):
in so many different ways, and they have. You know,
I don't think they lacked tremendously with power apartment, Joe.
I think they have enough power. But I like the
fact that they can beat you on the bases by
putting the ball in play. They can beat you in
the front end of the rotation, in the back end
of the bullpen.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, they can apply pressure. What was his name, Vaughn
put down a safety squeeze yesterday. Did you see the
safety squeeze from Vaughn? Joe?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Can we talk about that because I'm not buying he
actually went on a sign there. There was some question
whether he Jason Lane, the third base coach, actually gave
the sign. Joe's the fourth inning. The Brewers are up
five to one. It's first and third. It's a one
to zero count. Andrew Vaughan has played seven hundred and
(05:41):
twenty three games as a professional and had zero sacrifice bunts.
I'm not buying it. I think he saw something that
wasn't there and lo and behold, he executes it perfectly right,
hit it right in that pie slice there towards the
first baseman.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I mean, come on, it could have been better as
ten amount two years ago, when John Olerud put down
a bunt against the Angels in Anaheim's Stadium, that blew
our minds. I think. I think it's just it's just
an indication of the buy in with the Brewers. And
you're right, it may not have been assigned play, although
everybody I was watching they showed the overhead. All the
base runners seemed to be aware, savvy of the moment.
(06:20):
Maybe uh Vond is not like that picture. I don't know.
There's there's different things, but it really, to me indicates
the total buy in. And why not keep adding on runs.
You can't just say he's gonna hit a three run
home run. They got the run in. The Thing that
was pretty impressive to me was the picture feeling the
ball and tagging him out. I thought, I've not really
seen that often on that play, because that's something that
(06:41):
Zim taught me years ago. I just I just like
the total buying component I like to I love the
total baseball component of the play, and again the outcome
bias and say, let him swing away might have hit
a three run home run. I don't know that, but
I do know he scored the run, and I know
I know that that dugout probably went nuts the moment
he had done it. And I would bet if you
get a real close up of Murph, the's like a
little smirk on the side of his face. So I
(07:03):
just think it it kind of personifies in the case,
tells you why the Brewers are where they're at.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Right now, that's a great point when you think about
the unselfishness, the fact that either Vaughan saw authority, saw
sign or actually got one. That kind of is irrelevant
to your point here, right that here's a guy who's
never sacrificed. He's a power hitting guy at number one
draft pick, and in that situation, even up five to
one in the fourth inning, he's thinking there's a possibility
(07:28):
he can put a butt down. And he not only that, Joe,
but he talked about how he works on it. You know,
even though he hasn't had to sacrifice in his professional life.
When he takes VP just doesn't go through the motions.
And with Milwaukee, you are prepared, even if you've never
done it before, to do these things that are a
little bit off the grid. And I like the fact
that this team is prepared to win games that way,
(07:50):
no matter where you hit in the lineup, no matter
whether you're a power hitter or a singles hitter.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Isn't it a beautiful thing? And it's technique indicated that
he does work on it. That was really good technique.
You see a lot of guys that are unable to
do that. And I used to have a line back
in the day when it was with the it was
even in the eighties and the instructional leagues and whatever.
Big guys could bunt. There's a lot of big guys
that add better technique than little guys. I don't know why,
but if you break his he got the bat out early,
(08:15):
he got a good pitch to bunt, he took his time,
he wasn't in a hurry, bunted it right into the ground,
like you said, right into the pie, the slice right there,
and then their pitcher just made an exceptional play on
the other team's part. The thing that a lot of
these teams don't do right there that I figured out
with the Rays. We used to have the runner at
first base bluff like he's going to steal second on
(08:38):
the pitch, and the moment he bluffed, that would cause
the both the shortstop and second basement to go to
the bag, because the second basement is I mean shortstops
going there on a bunt play, but if there's a steal,
the second basement probably has the bag. So the moment
he bluffs, you have both of those guys at second base.
First basement goes off the bag first of all, because
he's learned, he's taught to protect the hole. Then he
(09:00):
breaks into its own plate too late. And so when
that all happens, you know, get the bunt to be
proper and successful run scores. But now you have runners
on first and second because you don't get the guy
at second base and there's nobody there to cover it first.
And that was a Sean Riggan is one of our
great guy catcher With the Rays. We're playing in Pittsburgh.
I put the play on I think it was Jason Bartlett,
(09:20):
and Rigo thought it was a hit and run. Then
he figured, oh no, it's not, so he makes this
great break at first base. Denny stops perfect bunt, all
the defenses all over the place, and my god, that
next day we put it in for forever. We're gonna
bluff at first base. We didn't do it so much
with the left handed pitcher because sometimes the runner at
first could get hung up and it messes the thing
(09:40):
up if he's not a good reader. So he probably
was a right handed pitcher. Play. There you have it.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Luck is the residue of design.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That's right, that's correct. It was. It was so it
was great. I mean because Rigo, if you knew him,
it was just like a really nice guy, a great kid,
almost naive and uh sometimes would make some mental mistakes.
But his mental mistake there really made that play even better.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Well, Joe, you you've had been on team teams that
just get the ball rolling, whether it's the O Two Angels,
the Rays back in nine, the Cubs obviously in sixteen.
When the confidence builds and you feel like you go
to the ballpark and it's win day every day, it's amazing.
The Brewers are playing this way. They talk about what
they now call the power of friendship. How close knit
this team is you've got Murph there with his pocket pancakes.
(10:24):
I don't know if you saw that he was interviewed
and had a little pancake in his pocket. Now that's
become a meme around the Brewers. Just the fun factors
off the charts with this team, and that's what happens
when you win twenty five out of twenty nine games.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
My question for you is how does Murph pull this off?
Because in this day and age where you've got managers
or are mostly like Aaron Boone who will not publicly
call out anybody on any kind of mistake, Murph has
the ability to bench players to just call a dumb
play a dumb play if it's you know, you're caught
off base, you've forgot the number of outs, whatever it
(11:00):
may be, and the team still loves him and play.
It's hard for him and as we just talked about,
is willing to do anything in terms of game situations.
How is Murph able to cut against the grain of
some of these managers now who feel like with the
younger players you have to tread lightly around them.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
There's nothing but authenticity about this fella, and he is
a blunt object. That's what he is, and this is
something that he has nurtured over the years. I said,
I know him from when I first met him. I
was at a clinic in Tennessee University in nineteen ninety
four or five whatever, and I was on after him
and he was up there first in his Notre Dame
(11:40):
outfit and he is ten them out again to the
pancake thing. He's up there eating like a bar, a
candy bar or a chewy bar some kind as he's
doing his gig. You know, I never seen anybody do
that before. That was just Murphy and Murphy. Well, he
didn't give it a second thought. I'm hungry and I
have to do this talk, so let me do this simultaneously.
And that's what he did. I'm sitting in the back
(12:00):
of come on and anyway, So he does that. And
then early this year, Freylak and somebody else he called
out early on about some kind of a something happened
early in the season. I can't remember exactly what, but
he did, and I thought brilliant, because I would bet
I don't know this, but I would bet he went
up to both of them before he actually did it
and said, listen, guys, this is a perfect teachable moment,
(12:22):
an opportunity for us to really galvanize this whole situation.
I would bet that he'd already had a great relationship
with both of these guys and told them, listen, I'm
going to point you guys out right now. Please understand why,
because I think if I do do this now, it's
going to benefit the entire group. I don't know that
for a fact, obviously, but that's what it wreaked up
to me. Sometimes you lay the groundwork in advance of
(12:45):
doing something like that, especially if you like you want
to call somebody out, call out the big boys, call
out the big guys. There's little guys that have big
targets on their back, and big guys have little targets
on their back normally, And so a manager, whomever, whatever
it is, is not going to call out the superstar
he's got a little target. But the less less than
the role player, the last guy in the bullpen, he's
(13:06):
got a big target on his back. Easy to be
hyper critical up. So I believe this was orchestrated a
little bit, and I might be wrong, but if it was,
it was nothing but perfect. And I think that's a
great way to do it. Give the guy heads up
in advance that you want to utilize a thick skinned guy,
a real player, a team member, and tell him why
you're going to do it, and I would bet the
(13:28):
buying comes up very easily. Well.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I love the way that he runs a game, and
I love the way that he goes to borrow your
phrase goes all Jack Ryan, all the time. Right, He's
going to tell you the truth. And in terms of
running a game, I'll go back to the old Oakland
moneyball days. I remember talking to infielders who would notice
the a's wouldn't even put on scigns if you were
(13:50):
playing the infield. I mean, listen, you want to be
on your toes right because you never know when the
ball is going to be hit to you. But you
never worried about the other team putting pressure on you
when you were playing the Oakland Athletics. And I think
the Brewers are the exact opposite. It's anybody anytime they
might be up to something, whether it's you know, even
the threat of bunting, which opens up holes as the
(14:10):
defense compromises their range. Pitchers trying to work a little
bit quicker because the guy in first base might run.
You know, it's kind of the unseen pressure besides the
scene pressure that Milwaukee puts on. You really does take
a toll. And so I love the way that he
runs a game that way.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
This that reminds me of two situations what you just
talked about there. Number one. I'll go with the sigence thing,
angels versus the age. For years, I was the sign
stealer for a long time with the third base coach.
I learned from Preston Gomez, and Preston always wanted me
to watch the first thing the third base coach touches,
and he said, get a chart. Put it there. Put
a little mark every time he touches something the first time.
(14:48):
Boom market market, market market, and wait for this time
that all of a sudden he touches something first that
he never touched first before. And that's how I got
they had a hit run sign, actually Oakland did. I
waited a year and a half before Wash touched the
right side of his chest, the right quadron of his
chest first time he did it, and of course it
was late because I didn't know that. But then the
(15:09):
next time it happened, I was aware. So the right
side was it, then you talk about the things to
think about about. Brian Butterfield became one of my coaches. Well,
he was at the Jay's, he was their bench coach,
and he was in charge of all the pre series meetings.
He said he hated preparing for the Rays and at
that time when we played the eighteen nineteen times a year,
he hated it because there was too much to think about.
(15:29):
There was so many things to cover before the series began,
too many things. We were good at. Pressure on the defense.
You talk about pressure on their pitchers. I mean, like
today it's a little bit easier because of the rules,
throwing the first base, et cetera. But back then it
was a little bit more difficult to really corral what
was going on out there. So we gave them all
kinds of things. And then whether it was a safety squeeze,
double steal, stealing home, anything that we did, they had
(15:53):
to cover in the pre series meeting, which we just
always made it more jumbled, a seat of doubt in
their minds, which is like really a valuable tool to
be able to plant the seat of doubt in your
opposite So all these things I totally get. I guess
that's why identify with them so much, love what they're doing.
You try to steal the third base coaches signs, although
nobody does anything anymore, and then on the other side,
(16:15):
make the other team over prepared because it will get
them in trouble.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, the hit and run has gone so far out
of favor. When I see one, I'm like, is that
still legal? I still do that in the game today.
That'll be legislated against at some point. So here are
the top five teams, Joe, according to Baseball Reference, in
terms of their odds of winning the World Series. So
whatever your expectations were, it's time to change them. You know,
(16:40):
we've got forty something games left in the season, right,
Number one Milwaukee, Okay, it's real. Number two the Philadelphia Phillies,
Number three of the Houston Astros, Number four the Boston
Red Sox, and number five the Detroit Tigers. How does
that sound to your years? Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Houston, Boston, Detroit.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I mean on the first two for sure, I like
that a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I just gave you the top five, by the way, Yeah,
there's no Dodgers and there's no Blue Jays.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, I'm good. I'm still listen. I like what the
Blue Jays are doing, but I'm still skeptical because they've
just you know, they're they're the tightness of with which
they play. I mean, they've been on a nice run.
Let's just see what happens over the next ten days
or two weeks. I'd love to see it, but I'm
not convinced yet that they're that fundamentally sound Astro's pedigree.
I mean, you know, whether you like them or not,
(17:31):
banging on trash cans or not. I mean they I
saw Christian Haaber was back last night. There's this an
ability to to find pitching that's that nobody ever heard
of before is still there. So I have to I
have to give them a nod there. The Red Sox
are the ones that are interesting. They they're just making
a late charge. They signed their kid, Anthony long term
(17:53):
interesting group right there. I have to start bearing down
on them a little bit more. Crochet concerns me. The
fact that he is, you know, he's ringing the bell
right now. It's a little bit over the limit. And
I don't know, I know they're talking about I think
backing off him. He had a tough date or night
last night. And that's big. I mean, he has to
come up big for them to be that good. And
(18:13):
finally Detroit. I like them, but they're wavering a bit,
and I'm just curious to see what this is all
going to go. I don't know if they had such
a nice lead and they're resting on their the press
clippings a little bit, or they're believing everything they're reading.
They're just not as tight as they had been. That's
my only concern. But I do love I do love
Brewers Phillies. Actually, I did a gig the other day
(18:33):
and I talked about in Chicago last week, and I
Who's get Away? And I said, I like the Brewers
and the Phillies. That's exactly what I said.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, we're going to take a quick break when we
come back. I'm going to talk about a couple of
teams not on that top five list, the San Diego
Padres and Seattle Mariners. They're nearly as hot as the
Milwaukee Brewers. We'll talk about that right after this. On
the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe.
(19:06):
I love it when we have teams like obviously You're
two Angels and sixteen Cubs that win a World Championship
for the first time in at least the generation, like
a whole second, the whole generation of fans who've never
seen their team win. I mean, the city's the regions
get over the top with just complete joy. It's it's
it's for me, affirmation of how important the game can be,
(19:30):
not just as in terms of you know, athletic competition,
but what it can mean for a community and really
pull people together. And I think we're seeing that in Milwaukee.
They listen, they haven't won anything yet. I get it,
and this is kind of building in San Diego and
Seattle as well. That's three cities, three regions that have
never won the World Series. And you know, to me,
the Padres have really put a threat into the La
(19:53):
Dodgers just a game back. Now you break them down.
I mentioned this earlier. Joe the best bullpen in Major
League Baseball, no question about it, and that makes them
a dangerous post season team, whether they get a buy
in the first round or not. Offensively, they're challenged a
little bit. They're twenty ninth in home runs. I mean,
that's worse than Milwaukee. They're twenty first and hitting with
(20:16):
runners in scoring position, but they do put the ball
in play. They're the second best two strike team and
they're also second in the lowest strikeout rate, so you've
got that as well. And on the other hand, you've
got the Dodgers, who, to me, Joe, have been sort
of just marking off the days two October the way
that they're playing. And they do this with the way
they handle their pitching. Now we've seen Blake Snell come back,
(20:39):
we've seen Tyler Glassnell come back. They're still kind of
in rehab mode. Yamamoto now they're pitching every seventh day,
giving him the extra day, which they've done with sho Hey,
you know, I don't even know how to evaluate the
LA Dodgers. You know, they've had I think it's only
four days this year where they've pitched the starter on
four days rest. They use more rest with their starting
(21:00):
pitchers than any team in baseball, and they get fewer
innings out of their starting pitching. So the lack of
urgency for the LA Dodgers, and I get why they're
doing this. They have tremendous depth. They can do it,
but it may come back to burn them. Joe, And
you got the San Diego Padres breathing down their next
We all know they're not afraid of the Dodgers at all.
(21:21):
They match up really well against them. So give me
your take on the Padres versus Dodgers, who, by the way,
have the sixth highest odds of winning the World Series.
Give me your take on that race. There in the
nl West we.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Described the Dodger as well. Right now, it's like they're
getting ready for the NBC tournament Wichita, Kansas. So it's like,
you know, you're getting holding back, holding back, You're trying
to accumulate everybody well at a certain time, and then
you want to flip on the switch and hopefully beat
or believing that they could beat everybody else. I always
have a little bit of an issue with that, you know,
And I get it, Like you just pointed out, they
(21:55):
have the kind of depth that they can maneuver, manipulate
like this, and on paper it sounds really good. The
fact that they won it all last year gives them
a little bit of too. I'm quite frankly, I don't
you know, the urgency of winning the World Championship not
as severe. I'm just just a human quality. Not as severe,
not as burning as it had been, So that's part
(22:17):
of it too. Nobody would ever admit that, but I'm
saying that I believe it to be true. So there
there's still he's still looking Andrew long term. If they
don't get it this year, we still can't burn people
out for the next year in the years to come
after that show. Hey, you know, being part of the
team for so long and all the different elements they
have coming along, so they're getting red of getting reddit
ready for tournament time right now. They want to win it,
(22:39):
but if it doesn't happen, we still don't want to
beat ourselves up so badly that we don't set up
well for the years to come. Seattle over San Diego.
I like Seattle over San Diego myself. I like the
vibe what I'm seeing when I watch the Mariners right now.
Rodriguez and then Suarez is really complimented all that very well.
Their catcher, you know, down a little bit post I'll
(23:01):
start game with all the history onics there. But I
love this guy. I just think he's an So you
can't get a more throwback, gritty player than Rawley is.
And they got plenty of pitching too. If they catch
the ball pretty well. I like I like Wilson at
the Helm. I think is a steady any kind of guy.
Not I don'ntlike shilty. Shilty is the same way as
San Diego. But I think overarching. I know you mentioned
(23:23):
the bullpen, but I like overall man for man roster depth,
what they can and cannot do. I like Seattle. I
like Seattle right now. They've got a kind of a
good vibe going on. I just think again it's San
Diego is a Nation League version of the Blue Jays.
For me, something just seems to fall short at a
certain moment or point, and that's it's hard to describe.
(23:44):
They just it's just not as tightly played as what
I'm seeing with Seattle right now. So Dodgers getting ready
for Wichita. If they don't want it, that's final. They'll
go back again next year. Seattle, I think, has this
little vibe going on right now, and that city is
electric when they're going well that that Towndy show. Not
that San Diego doesn't, but a maner's got this little
(24:05):
niche thing too. That's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean you can start to see that and
feel that build in Seattle, they're on just started a
really tough I think it's a ten day or ten
game East Coast road trip. That's always key for Majoe
when you see these West Coast teams come east late
in the season like this. We all know about Seattle
the most travel of any major League team. This will
be a test for them coming east because they just
(24:28):
age come off a brilliant home stand in which they
went nine and one and the magic was just rolling.
They're an interesting team, Joe, because you know their path
to winning is through home runs. You know this their
top four home run hitting team. They're not a great
team in terms of putting the ball and play and
catching it, and they're twenty ninth with hitting in runners
(24:49):
in scoring position. They do strike out a lot twenty
fourth and strikeout rate. But I also think that things
have changed a little bit with the additions of Gino
Suarez and Josh Naylor. So when you look at some
of the overlying numbers for Seattle all it almost reminds
me of the way that the nineteen Nationals fixed their bullpen.
Their bullpen numbers were terrible, but they had kind of
(25:11):
a different look to their bullpen by the time they
got to October and I kind of look at Seattle
that way. Not a great offensive team, but better than
what we saw the first three months of the season.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, you can't really. You got to disregard those numbers
a little bit. I even forgot to mention Naylor. He's
been looking the other day, looked like he had pulled
something and hurt himself. Then the next day's hitting a
home run on a pitch over his head. Those sars
in him are like huge difference makers as baseball players
and stats are concerned, and I think psychologically for the
entire group, Wu's outstanding man, Gilbert. There's a lot to
(25:46):
like up there. For me, I didn't realize their defense
was done. I don't know where exactly. They're coming up
short big time, but you know, I don't see them
as being awful by any means. I liked them. I
don't know. Watched with those like I said, with those
swars and Naylor being part of the mix right now,
it's kind of interesting. So, like I said, if I
(26:07):
had to go head to head, I'd pick Mariners over
the Padres right now, and that the Dodgers. Of course
they're gonna be into playoffs, but it's just they something's
got to click. There's something's got to happen there to
light their fire.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, and Mookie Betts is really having a down season.
It hasn't really turned it around yet, so we'll keep
an eye on that. Interesting that Dave Roberts. I don't
want to say he called out show Heyotani, but I
did mention the other day there was a bat basis
loaded Lady chased a three two breaking ball from Jeff
Hoffin against Toronto and then Bets made the last out.
(26:40):
I don't worry about the Dodgers in terms of talent
and someone like Bets, but I do worry that they're
not clicking on all cylinders or even close to it.
And I think it's just too hard to just turn
it on once you get to October. So give me
your take on Seattle, Joe. I mean, I mentioned that
Houston surprised me that they're third with the third highest
(27:01):
odds to win the World Series. I actually thinks Seattle
is going to overtake the Astros. And that's no knock
of the Astros, and they definitely respect their pedigree and
the way they play, but they're so right handed and
there's been some issuons with health. You mentioned Hobbier's back.
We'll see how he looks. But give me your take
on whether you like Seattle or Houston to come away
(27:23):
in the American League West.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You're right, I mean they're nipping on the heels right there.
The thing that I can't you Houston is man, they
just always seem to surface or resurface. Kraya back is
a little bit of a spark. He's been doing well
right now. Let's see how that continues to play out.
I saw make some nice plays at third base also,
so you got that vibe catching up again. Is Alvarez
(27:47):
the left end hitter? Is he coming back at all?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
He should be back. It's been a long time. I
know Paradas is not coming back, but I think Alvarez
is a huge key because he's a great hitter first
of all, but also bounce out that lineup.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Dude, I'm telling you when that guy is right. I
said on the bench when I was with the Angels,
and I said to Troty, you realize this is like
top five hitter in all baseball. I said that the
trouty about Albaret's at that time.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I think if he if he gets back that the
it'll it'll tilt in their favorite. However, when you're out
that long, it was like a rister hand injury, right
that he's got going on right now.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, that's something when you.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Come back from eh, you know, you just don't know.
Those things are real tricky, even if you think you're well,
I'm just tap dancing. I still like the Astros. The
Mariners really have to prove it. Astros tried and true. Korea.
The ViBe's kind of there right now. If Albarea shows
up again, it's listen, it's gonna be interesting, it's gonna
be good, it's gonna be tight. But I still like
the Astros, just to say their building. Although they weren't
(28:48):
that good there a couple of years ago, but they're
they They just seem to know how to win when
it matters.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, as we talk about World Series odds, where at
that time of year where it's, uh, we're getting a
kind of narrow look on who can win the World Series,
there's one team we need to talk about, Joe, and
that's the New York Yankees. And one of their most
reliable players is no longer reliable. And we'll talk about
him right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
We've talked a lot on this podcast about the Yankees
and what's wrong, and certainly it's a long list when
you talk about their base running, their defense, some of
the issues in the bullpen, which they apparently have fixed.
We'll see how that plays out of the trade deadline.
But now Max Reid is a different picture than what
we first saw the first seventeen starts of the season
(29:46):
when the Yankees went thirteen to four with him on
the mound. Since the start of July, they're at two
and five when he takes the ball and his ERA
is six. It's a different picture. I know he went
through a blister issue. He had one start abbreviated against
the Cubs, and they skipped his next start against the
braz to give him some time to address that blister issue.
(30:07):
But the fact is he's back on the mound that
there's nothing wrong with his velocity, nothing wrong with his spin.
But right now his command is really poor and he
is getting hit much more than he did early in
this season. I think that he's this is a guy Joe.
To me, it's kind of like Aaron Judge on the
pitching side. You know, you need that folkrum, that guy
(30:29):
who's going to go out there and give you a
solid start every time he takes the ball six or
seven innings, you know, And that's what he had been doing.
He was a losing streak stopper whenever he took the ball.
I think the Yankees are in trouble. He's got eight
starts left and if he doesn't figure out the command
issues right now, they're going to have a hard time
just holding on to a playoff spot. And now he's
(30:50):
been throughout his career a great stretch run pitcher, especially
in September. He's got the pedigree. We know that he's
got the stuff, he's got the smarts to do it,
but so far he hasn't figured it out. A bad
start out Sunday against the Houston Astros where he gave
up five two strike hits. Not the same picture, but
(31:11):
the Yanches need him to figure out. Tell me what
you see with Max Reed.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, I mean, I know he said the blister as
well and everything, but and you gave me the numbers
are pretty consistent. However, there might just be something in
the back of his mind that he's holding back on.
Maybe he changed the grip pressure of what he the
seam on his finger somehow, only to prevent this from
happening again. It sounds like something, you know, something micro
is out of whack rider. Obviously, that's what happens with
(31:36):
a really good athlete when he's not doing well. It's micro,
it's not macro. And it sounds like that were for him.
So I'd be curious if, in fact, in order to
not have this happen again, he tried to make some
kind of an adjustment that just got him off just
a click, just a little bit. And right now, when
you get into that negative cycle coming off that, it's
kind of an injury. The blisters. Blisters are no fun, man,
(31:58):
They really are annoying. It's like an ingrown toenail on
your hand. It's just it's just really there all trying
to not have a bite. And maybe that's part of
it too, and he's just not letting it go like
he had. Hopefully, he'd like to believe, giving a certain
amount of time, that he's going to get by that
or it's going to really heal up to the point
where it doesn't bother him anymore. And if his history
(32:19):
is good in the stretch, and like, if there's nothing
really wrong with this finger, I'm betting he can get
good in the scretch. Again, it's hard to go wire
to wire all year long and be perfect in which
he had been early on, and then of course this
issue with his fingertip matters, So just give it a
little bit more time. I'm not saying that the Yankees
aren't in trouble. I agree that they are, but I
(32:40):
think just give him a little bit more time, if
in fact that's his track record, to make sure that
this thing is in order, if he had made any
micro adjustments, that he gets back to what he had been.
The two strike knocks again, are they softies? Are they bloopers?
Are they well struck? Is it just bad luck? I
don't know, so that would be part of my evaluation
(33:01):
there too. But the guy is good. I'd say by
September one, we should know.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You know, it's interesting. I think you have to go
back to when he signed with the Yankees. Obviously, Max
Fried has been a hugely successful pitcher in the big leagues,
and when he got to the Yankees, he said, listen,
I'm open to any ideas from your analyst. Whatever, technology,
you have pitch shaping, sequencing, and I applaud him for that.
And to me, Joe, he has a very different orientation
(33:27):
as a pitcher. Now he's gone from a true north
south pitcher to a true east west pitcher. It's very
unusual for me to see a pitcher who's been highly
successful make this change to this extent, he's gone heavy
in terms of cutter sweeper, whereas before he was overhand
curve for seam fastball. If you look in his career
(33:49):
before he signed with the Yankees, sixty three percent of
his pitches were curveball, four seemer. You know that's the
whole Jim Palmer, Sandy Kovax, you know, Clayton Kurshrow traditional
making swing decisions on a north south vertical basis, right,
And you look at what he's doing now. Forty three
percent of his pitches are cutters and sweepers. The cutter
(34:12):
has become his number one pitch, and I think he
caught a lot of hitters off guard. Whatever the scouting
report was on Max Freed, you know, you could throw
it out the window, and it took a while for
the league to adjust to it. And I think they
have adjusted to it, his command is not as good.
The cutter does not have the same movement when you
look at the measurements of it on glove side as
(34:33):
it did early in the season. He's just a completely
different pitcher, and it worked a perfection. I give the
guy credit because his sweeper and cutter combo were unbelievably good.
Made very few mistakes with it in the first half
of the season. But if you look at his dispersal
on that cutter, which he loves to just run in
right on the edge of the plate on inside the
(34:54):
right handed hitters, he's got a wider dispersal on it.
The command is not as good on the pitch. Is
that the blister causing that? I don't know. Maybe maybe
it's the hitters adjusting to what and now you're expecting
to see from Max Freed. I mean, you a three
to two count with Max Freed. Until this year, you
were getting a fastball sixty three sixty six percent of
the time two thirds of the time. Now you're getting
(35:15):
a cutter on three and two. So basically the scattering
report of Max Freed has changed. He is a true
east west pitcher now, not a northous pitcher. I'd like
to see him go back and throw a few more
fastballs because to me, Joe, when I look at his
release point now, his arm angle is actually lower now.
And when you get to the side of the baseball
as much as he is now, rather than getting behind
(35:36):
it on the curve ball and especially the four seamer,
it's going to change the way your hand works. And
I think you're starting to see that. I think there
has to be an adjustment at some point. I'm not
sure what it is, but to get his command back,
he's got to make that adjustment.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Now. Well, you just covered it. I mean, as you're
bringing as you brought up the topic. I'm writing notes
down and you covered everything I wrote down. The initial
success may have been that he surprised everybody, no question
about that. Maybe the blister is exaggerated by this new
shaping of pitches and how his finger was placed on
the on the ball during that time and over a
(36:12):
period of time, like the pitches did get flatter, there
wasn't the crispiness to them. And again getting away from
the elevated fastball, and that I love his big old curve.
I'm a curveball fan. I'm not as much of a
sweeper cutter fan, I'm not. I think you go to
those if you're not successful. They probably MY guess would
be that sweeper cutter easier to throw a strike with
(36:34):
than elevated fastball. Curveball. Curveball is hard to land, so
maybe they were just looking they being the Yankees, a
more efficient way to land strikes. Possibly, But I'll tell
you what, and everybody curveball. Everybody thinks the curveball is
really nasty against the same side. It's not like I
like opposite. I like when the left he's got a
good hook, where right he's got a good hook. I
(36:56):
like the righting to use it against his lefty and
the left to use it against his righty. It's a
really tough pitch when it dives down underneath these guys.
So again I don't I don't know the whole break down,
but you're right, I would be curious because I didn't
know all this stuff. That's good stuff to really let's
go back in history a little bit right now and
permit which is really a bad word to use her,
(37:16):
but let him just get back out there. Listen, get
back to your elevated fast but let's pop some more
hooks in here and right now they become savvy to
this other thing and the others pitches are getting flatter
just based on armstroke right now. Yeah, you made a
lot of great points right there, So to me, it'd
be relatively easy. And yet we're not in the room.
The conversations may have already existed or exist, but it
(37:37):
sounds to me like maybe getting back to tried and
true might be beneficial right now.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So you look at the Yankees and their two most
reliable players are just not reliable right now. It's Max
Freed and Aaron Judge.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
If you're the manager, you're Aaron Boone. All you can
go by is what the doctors tell you, right and
when this guy is ready to play the outfield so
that you can have Stanton and Judge together every day.
Right now, Judge is the DH. If you look back
at his last forty two games, he's hit two thirty
eight and the strikeout rate has really pronounced it. It's
gone up. This is a guy who's chasing four hundred
(38:11):
through the first sixty some odd games of the season,
and it's to me it's only a matter of health.
I mean, I'm sure there's Rust. I'm sure there's probably
some compensation for that flexer strain that he had in
terms of his hitting. I'm not worried about Aaron Judge,
don't get me wrong. But you know, the Yankees need
(38:31):
him at full strength. They need him to play the outfield.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
The worry here is that if he's not yet ready
to play the outfield, you put him out there and
he has to make one strong throw. You know, who
knows what can happen to that flexer. So you know, again,
am I worried about Judge? No, but I don't. I
like the Yankees a lot less if he's a full
time DH.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, it's it's a different attitude for a baseball player.
The guys used to being out there killing time in
between at batch of the DH is difficult if you're
not that guy. All the Tomic of Poppy was really
good at it, Edgar Martinez was really good at it.
Frank Thomas became very good at it. These are guys
that really lacked a position or didn't really didn't matter
to them if they played on the field or not.
(39:15):
Chilie Davis at the end of his career outstanding DH.
It's a position it's different when you have to sit
idly during the course of the game. Fill up your time,
get on a bike, stationary bike down below, go down
to the cage. Somebody throws you maybe ten pitches before
you're next that bat. You try to stay loose as
much as you can mentally and physically, and it's hard,
(39:36):
and it's hard, especially for a guy like Judge. I think,
who loves being out there, and I think it's a
he's better able to compartmentalize everything that's occurring in the
game and it makes it easier for him. So yeah,
all those are great points. Once again, I still believe
put him in the outfield. You get your second basement
way out there. I don't care what the situation is.
He lobs it back in. How many times do you
(39:57):
throw somebody out at the plate? Anyway, there was a
year with the Rays I didn't do it at all.
I had everybody throw it a second or outfield arms
weren't that good. And Zin pointed out to me that
Paul Richards, the very bright form of manager of the
White Sox back in the fifties, insist that never throw
the ball to plate, of course, unless it's the last out.
Of the winning run of the game. Otherwise I want
the ball going to second base, So there's ways to
(40:18):
get around it. But I think that they should consider that.
And again, if it's if it is late after his
last at bat saying the eighth any whatever, I knows
it's tough to put that defensive replacement in there for him. Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
So you think you can put Judge in the outfield
and have him under orders basically to return the ball
to the infielder maybe a short distance away.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Absolutely, So you're willingly giving up extra base. Obviously every
team would know that and instruct their runners run on
them every time.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Sure, yeah, I mean you have to yeak, you state them.
I think it's okay because of that second Chishnet busts
out to the outfield immediately on the to say ground ball,
base hit and Judge that's it, right back to him.
I think that will mitigate guys going because Aaron will
know how to charge the bay so Yankee Stateum, I
don't think is that big of an issue. Shoot, there'd
be a bigger right field. Might be somewhat and not
(41:08):
disagreeing with you, but again, you have to weigh the
potentialities here, whether it's Stanton hitting and Judge the hing
versus like maybe one or two times, maybe three times
where there might be some kind of a situation that
an extra base may be taken. After all, these guys
don't even care anymore if somebody steals second base. So
you'd almost have to be like paradigm shift thinking what
(41:30):
would it be equivalent to if we permitted this to happen,
or if it did happen. And so we're gonna talk
about it, We're gonna we're gonna filter through, We're gonna
get over it. It's probably gonna happen. We're gonna move on. Pictures,
be quiet, pictures. Do you want do you want Judge
in the outfield hitting or do you want an you
want Stanton in a lineup? Or do you want judges
a DH No Stanton and worry about an extra base
(41:50):
now and then. So that's that's the kind of conversation
I would have.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
That's interesting. You may see that as soon as this week.
D It sounds like Judge will not be playing the
outfield against Minnesota in the series this week. But getting
back to our World Series odds, the Yankees right now
are tenth as far as World Series odds, and the
New York Mets are thirteenth. My goodness, what has happened
in New York baseball in the last month of the season.
(42:15):
Yankees at ten, the Mets at thirteen. But it actually
sounds about right. I still think the Mets are going
to be a really good team. I think thirteen is
a little bit low, but I understand the way things
are going now, or you're not in love with that team,
but I still think they can be a dangerous team.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I'm always reminded of the two thousand and five White
Socks that eventually in the World Series, because we went
in to play them early September and they stunk. They
were horrible, horrible, like they didn't have a pulse, there
were doa I mean it was gone. And then all
of a sudden they could not do anything wrong in
that pitching staff just took off. So if they I
(42:53):
mean to me, you're gonna have to it's playing perfect baseball.
You got to pitch your butts off, you got to
catch it, you got to get the thing, the know,
the big hit all that stuff. Now, it's difficult if
you're if you've been one way for so long your
record tells you who you are. Was that Bill Parcell's
talking about the record of the team. It's true. So
it's just it's not easy to flip a switch. I
know there's guy's names on papers and stuff, but it's
(43:15):
difficult to do that. But I've seen it. Ozzie's group
that year proved it to me. But they did it.
They shut us down. We couldn't even get in their
bullpen in the playoffs that year. We win the first game,
they beat us in the second game on a controversial call,
and then after that we couldn't even get in the bullpen.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Well, it is that time of year where it's it's
actually worthwhile talking about World Series odds because it's not
that far off. We're in the stretch. Run right here
and Joe. I began this podcast talking about a quote
from our good buddy Billy Shakespeare, and you always have
the last word on this. So who do you have
in mind for the last word of this episode of
(43:54):
the Book of Joe?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
You know, I don't have actually who said? I got
so many good things here? Today?
Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's just like, I'm oh, is this from anonymous? The
most quote? What did the philosopher ever, yeah, how many
most of you saying from anonymous. I got to find
out who this anonymous guy is. He sounds very smart.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
I got a couple names attached to but my point
is I got I mean, my query today was about
too much information I was doing. I did a guest
at MLB Network and I was talking to Brian Kenney
and talking about advice to Rick Wilson with the Wilson
with the will excuse me se Rick Wilson's the scout
(44:31):
with the Mariners. And I went out and said, listen,
less information, do less less meetings, show up later, keep
them fresh, blah blah. And Ryan was kind of taken
by it. But it's true. This is the time of
the year when everybody wants to give more information, more reams,
more meetings, wearing people's brains out. I think it's absolutely wrong.
(44:51):
So I went with too much information And this is
really good. This comes from Wiley Communications. Information has become
a form of garbage. This quote conveys the feeling that
much of the information we encounter is not valuable or useful.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
That's one of my arguments. I could I'm just talking
in the baseball since in September. You give so much
information it's impossible to utilize it. And after all, at
the end of the day, who has better players playing
better baseball? Oh, the Milwaukee Brewers right now. I don't
care what their information looks like. They're just better right now,
they're playing better baseball. So I thought that was kind
of interesting. And the other one, with enough mental gymnastics,
(45:27):
just about any fact can become as shapen in favor
to one's confirmation bias. And you know that's it's true.
So right now, this time of the year, I always
want it less. I didn't want more. Just come on,
keep the guys fresh. You still have. American Legion Week
was always in August where I'd wanted the guys to
show up at this during a homestand I wanted them
there about five o'clock for like six forty game or
(45:50):
seven o'clock game. Not hit on the field. If you
want to take a couple of ground balls, that's fine,
but I wanted you there later, and I want you
to do less and I want you to stay fresh.
I wish I had the actual number, but I believe
their winning percentage was over six. The almost seventy percent
at that whenever we did American Legion Baseball normally end
of August. For the reasons I'm just stating right now,
(46:11):
so information is wonderful. Everybody's afraid to attack the fact
that there's maybe too much out there right now, and
not just in baseball but in general, and it becomes
very confusing. Do not confuse your players right now. Lead athleticism,
take over nuggets, not dissertations, is what they need right now.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Wise words, Joe, and your track record backs it up.
If you look at your numbers, your teams traditionally do
have better winning percentages in August and September. And when
you do it for as long as you did that,
that can't be an accident. So I would pay attention
to that if i'm major league teams where and I
know you've talked about this, Joe, the information and the
(46:52):
amount of bodies in your clubhouse and manager's office begin
to grow as the games do get more important down
the stretch and including into October. And what you're saying
is fight that urge and keep it simple.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Yeah, you don't need all those folks there. I promise
you don't need them. You need good baseball players that
their mind and body is rested. Give them some nuggets,
be there to support them, keep them fresh, keep them
having fun. I've always said, September provides its own energy. Okay,
the guys will find if you're in the hunt, here
(47:25):
comes September one. You're in the hunt, You're pretty good,
stead September provides its own energy. Do you don't have
to look for it anywhere. It's there. It's going to
show up every time you come to the ballpark. Why God,
it is there. So permit your guys to be athletes
right now. Let them play baseball. You know. Of course,
you might have a couple guys that have this regular
routine that they do need more. Okay, fine, but don't
(47:47):
change anything. Don't add to it right now. If you
have any urge at all, do less and not more.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
That's so good. I'm going to steal that one day,
just like I stole from Billy Shakespeare. September provides its
own energy. That's right, and I will credit you, not
credit mister anonymous.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I go by that too.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
We'll see you next time on the Book of Joe.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
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or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast
with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. Joe, Today, I
want to talk about something that your old buddy, William
(00:24):
Shakespeare called the root of all heartache. It was not
air travel and it was not the DMV. And he
guesses on what Shakespeare called the root of all heartache redundancy.
Not quite, but I like that guess expectations, okay, And
I want to talk about how expectations color the way
(00:45):
we look at Major League Baseball teams, because there are
some people that still have this trouble of thinking of
the Milwaukee Brewers as the best team in baseball, right
because they don't fit our expectations. We keep saying the Dodgers,
the Dodgers, the Dodgers, because that's how we were conditioned
to think. They won the World Series. They added on
in the offseason. But Joe, in my mind, there's no
question the Milwaukee Brewers are the best team in baseball.
(01:09):
I mean, what a run they're on twenty five and
four in the last twenty nine games. You go back
sixty five games, They're forty nine and sixteen, and they
kind they play the kind of baseball that, let's face it,
all of us think is the kind of baseball that
should win in October at any time of year. Actually,
(01:29):
is this an overachieving team, Joe? Or do you feel
like the Milwaukee Brewers are legitimately the best team in
baseball no matter what our expectations were coming in.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
What are they lacking? I don't know what they're lacking
to not be able to be considered that. I watch
them often, Murph and I go way back to Skipper there.
I love the way they play baseball. They play complete
game of baseball. They play all facets. They hustle all
the time. If there's something goes awry, Murph gets it
straighten out very quickly. But I really enjoy watching them.
(02:00):
This is this is my version in my mind's eye,
would Bay Ball should look like. And listen, they are
very progressive in a lot of ways when it comes
to their analytical information because for years, the Brewers, to me,
they had their defenders in the right position. That's the
one thing when we played against them with the Cubbies,
I was always impressed by their defenders were set up
(02:21):
right properly, and you always got you got kind of
burned once in a while because they would absolutely catch.
We catch line drives. That was my line with the Rays,
And they catch line drives, they catch the hard hit balls.
Run the basis great, take extra bases. They're willing to
take the blooper to the opposite field to score a point.
Defense is solid. I mean they they catch the ball
and they're pitching. They got they got some really good
(02:43):
arms with drift. Looks pretty darn good right now. That
bullpen McGill can stop anybody. I don't know there. I
don't see the flow. I don't see the flow.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
To your point, Joe, And this obviously checks all the
boxes that you and I like to see. And when
we watch a baseball team play base running, number one
base running team in baseball defense, they're number three team speed.
They're number two starting pitching. They're number three wins by
one run, number one best record against winning teams, which
(03:15):
I like to look at. They're number one hitting with
two strikes, they're number five hitting with runners in scoring position.
They're the best team in baseball at it strikeout percentage.
They're sixth. So you're saying what is this team missing?
And I'll give you the answer because there is one
thing they're missing, and that's home run power.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah power, You right.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
They're twentieth in Major League Baseball in hitting home runs. Now,
if you look back, the last five teams that won
the World Series all finished no lower than fourth in
home runs. And to find any World champion that was
not in the top half in Major Leaue Baseball and
(03:57):
hitting home runs, you have to go back a decade
to the twenty fifteen Kansas City Royals. Game has changed
a lot, as you know, josein twenty fifteen, it's harder
than ever to get a base hit. There's very few
opportunities to really string hits together, especially get in the
postseason when rotations tighten up, bullpen usage tightens up. And
(04:18):
the ability to change the game quickly with a home
runs the one thing the Milwaukee Brewers do not have.
But do you believe that can stop them in a
postseason environment?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, how many top five finishes or indicators and the
other components of the game equal power, That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You know they do so many things. Well, I think
they're one, Like, they don't have one path to win
a game like I look at San Diego, right, and
I love San Diego, but their way to winning the
World Series is through their bullpen. I don't think there's
any other way for them. They're not a great offensive team.
They're starting. Pitching is just okay. Milwaukee can beat you
(04:58):
in so many different ways, and they have. You know,
I don't think they lacked tremendously with power apartment, Joe.
I think they have enough power. But I like the
fact that they can beat you on the bases by
putting the ball in play. They can beat you in
the front end of the rotation, in the back end
of the bullpen.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, they can apply pressure. What was his name, Vaughn
put down a safety squeeze yesterday. Did you see the
safety squeeze from Vaughn? Joe?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Can we talk about that because I'm not buying he
actually went on a sign there. There was some question
whether he Jason Lane, the third base coach, actually gave
the sign. Joe's the fourth inning. The Brewers are up
five to one. It's first and third. It's a one
to zero count. Andrew Vaughan has played seven hundred and
(05:41):
twenty three games as a professional and had zero sacrifice bunts.
I'm not buying it. I think he saw something that
wasn't there and lo and behold, he executes it perfectly right,
hit it right in that pie slice there towards the
first baseman.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I mean, come on, it could have been better as
ten amount two years ago, when John Olerud put down
a bunt against the Angels in Anaheim's Stadium, that blew
our minds. I think. I think it's just it's just
an indication of the buy in with the Brewers. And
you're right, it may not have been assigned play, although
everybody I was watching they showed the overhead. All the
base runners seemed to be aware, savvy of the moment.
(06:20):
Maybe uh Vond is not like that picture. I don't know.
There's there's different things, but it really, to me indicates
the total buy in. And why not keep adding on runs.
You can't just say he's gonna hit a three run
home run. They got the run in. The Thing that
was pretty impressive to me was the picture feeling the
ball and tagging him out. I thought, I've not really
seen that often on that play, because that's something that
(06:41):
Zim taught me years ago. I just I just like
the total buying component I like to I love the
total baseball component of the play, and again the outcome
bias and say, let him swing away might have hit
a three run home run. I don't know that, but
I do know he scored the run, and I know
I know that that dugout probably went nuts the moment
he had done it. And I would bet if you
get a real close up of Murph, the's like a
little smirk on the side of his face. So I
(07:03):
just think it it kind of personifies in the case,
tells you why the Brewers are where they're at.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Right now, that's a great point when you think about
the unselfishness, the fact that either Vaughan saw authority, saw
sign or actually got one. That kind of is irrelevant
to your point here, right that here's a guy who's
never sacrificed. He's a power hitting guy at number one
draft pick, and in that situation, even up five to
one in the fourth inning, he's thinking there's a possibility
(07:28):
he can put a butt down. And he not only that, Joe,
but he talked about how he works on it. You know,
even though he hasn't had to sacrifice in his professional life.
When he takes VP just doesn't go through the motions.
And with Milwaukee, you are prepared, even if you've never
done it before, to do these things that are a
little bit off the grid. And I like the fact
that this team is prepared to win games that way,
(07:50):
no matter where you hit in the lineup, no matter
whether you're a power hitter or a singles hitter.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Isn't it a beautiful thing? And it's technique indicated that
he does work on it. That was really good technique.
You see a lot of guys that are unable to
do that. And I used to have a line back
in the day when it was with the it was
even in the eighties and the instructional leagues and whatever.
Big guys could bunt. There's a lot of big guys
that add better technique than little guys. I don't know why,
but if you break his he got the bat out early,
(08:15):
he got a good pitch to bunt, he took his time,
he wasn't in a hurry, bunted it right into the ground,
like you said, right into the pie, the slice right there,
and then their pitcher just made an exceptional play on
the other team's part. The thing that a lot of
these teams don't do right there that I figured out
with the Rays. We used to have the runner at
first base bluff like he's going to steal second on
(08:38):
the pitch, and the moment he bluffed, that would cause
the both the shortstop and second basement to go to
the bag, because the second basement is I mean shortstops
going there on a bunt play, but if there's a steal,
the second basement probably has the bag. So the moment
he bluffs, you have both of those guys at second base.
First basement goes off the bag first of all, because
he's learned, he's taught to protect the hole. Then he
(09:00):
breaks into its own plate too late. And so when
that all happens, you know, get the bunt to be
proper and successful run scores. But now you have runners
on first and second because you don't get the guy
at second base and there's nobody there to cover it first.
And that was a Sean Riggan is one of our
great guy catcher With the Rays. We're playing in Pittsburgh.
I put the play on I think it was Jason Bartlett,
(09:20):
and Rigo thought it was a hit and run. Then
he figured, oh no, it's not, so he makes this
great break at first base. Denny stops perfect bunt, all
the defenses all over the place, and my god, that
next day we put it in for forever. We're gonna
bluff at first base. We didn't do it so much
with the left handed pitcher because sometimes the runner at
first could get hung up and it messes the thing
(09:40):
up if he's not a good reader. So he probably
was a right handed pitcher. Play. There you have it.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Luck is the residue of design.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That's right, that's correct. It was. It was so it
was great. I mean because Rigo, if you knew him,
it was just like a really nice guy, a great kid,
almost naive and uh sometimes would make some mental mistakes.
But his mental mistake there really made that play even better.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Well, Joe, you you've had been on team teams that
just get the ball rolling, whether it's the O Two Angels,
the Rays back in nine, the Cubs obviously in sixteen.
When the confidence builds and you feel like you go
to the ballpark and it's win day every day, it's amazing.
The Brewers are playing this way. They talk about what
they now call the power of friendship. How close knit
this team is you've got Murph there with his pocket pancakes.
(10:24):
I don't know if you saw that he was interviewed
and had a little pancake in his pocket. Now that's
become a meme around the Brewers. Just the fun factors
off the charts with this team, and that's what happens
when you win twenty five out of twenty nine games.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
My question for you is how does Murph pull this off?
Because in this day and age where you've got managers
or are mostly like Aaron Boone who will not publicly
call out anybody on any kind of mistake, Murph has
the ability to bench players to just call a dumb
play a dumb play if it's you know, you're caught
off base, you've forgot the number of outs, whatever it
(11:00):
may be, and the team still loves him and play.
It's hard for him and as we just talked about,
is willing to do anything in terms of game situations.
How is Murph able to cut against the grain of
some of these managers now who feel like with the
younger players you have to tread lightly around them.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
There's nothing but authenticity about this fella, and he is
a blunt object. That's what he is, and this is
something that he has nurtured over the years. I said,
I know him from when I first met him. I
was at a clinic in Tennessee University in nineteen ninety
four or five whatever, and I was on after him
and he was up there first in his Notre Dame
(11:40):
outfit and he is ten them out again to the
pancake thing. He's up there eating like a bar, a
candy bar or a chewy bar some kind as he's
doing his gig. You know, I never seen anybody do
that before. That was just Murphy and Murphy. Well, he
didn't give it a second thought. I'm hungry and I
have to do this talk, so let me do this simultaneously.
And that's what he did. I'm sitting in the back
(12:00):
of come on and anyway, So he does that. And
then early this year, Freylak and somebody else he called
out early on about some kind of a something happened
early in the season. I can't remember exactly what, but
he did, and I thought brilliant, because I would bet
I don't know this, but I would bet he went
up to both of them before he actually did it
and said, listen, guys, this is a perfect teachable moment,
(12:22):
an opportunity for us to really galvanize this whole situation.
I would bet that he'd already had a great relationship
with both of these guys and told them, listen, I'm
going to point you guys out right now. Please understand why,
because I think if I do do this now, it's
going to benefit the entire group. I don't know that
for a fact, obviously, but that's what it wreaked up
to me. Sometimes you lay the groundwork in advance of
(12:45):
doing something like that, especially if you like you want
to call somebody out, call out the big boys, call
out the big guys. There's little guys that have big
targets on their back, and big guys have little targets
on their back normally, And so a manager, whomever, whatever
it is, is not going to call out the superstar
he's got a little target. But the less less than
the role player, the last guy in the bullpen, he's
(13:06):
got a big target on his back. Easy to be
hyper critical up. So I believe this was orchestrated a
little bit, and I might be wrong, but if it was,
it was nothing but perfect. And I think that's a
great way to do it. Give the guy heads up
in advance that you want to utilize a thick skinned guy,
a real player, a team member, and tell him why
you're going to do it, and I would bet the
(13:28):
buying comes up very easily. Well.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I love the way that he runs a game, and
I love the way that he goes to borrow your
phrase goes all Jack Ryan, all the time. Right, He's
going to tell you the truth. And in terms of
running a game, I'll go back to the old Oakland
moneyball days. I remember talking to infielders who would notice
the a's wouldn't even put on scigns if you were
(13:50):
playing the infield. I mean, listen, you want to be
on your toes right because you never know when the
ball is going to be hit to you. But you
never worried about the other team putting pressure on you
when you were playing the Oakland Athletics. And I think
the Brewers are the exact opposite. It's anybody anytime they
might be up to something, whether it's you know, even
the threat of bunting, which opens up holes as the
(14:10):
defense compromises their range. Pitchers trying to work a little
bit quicker because the guy in first base might run.
You know, it's kind of the unseen pressure besides the
scene pressure that Milwaukee puts on. You really does take
a toll. And so I love the way that he
runs a game that way.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
This that reminds me of two situations what you just
talked about there. Number one. I'll go with the sigence thing,
angels versus the age. For years, I was the sign
stealer for a long time with the third base coach.
I learned from Preston Gomez, and Preston always wanted me
to watch the first thing the third base coach touches,
and he said, get a chart. Put it there. Put
a little mark every time he touches something the first time.
(14:48):
Boom market market, market market, and wait for this time
that all of a sudden he touches something first that
he never touched first before. And that's how I got
they had a hit run sign, actually Oakland did. I
waited a year and a half before Wash touched the
right side of his chest, the right quadron of his
chest first time he did it, and of course it
was late because I didn't know that. But then the
(15:09):
next time it happened, I was aware. So the right
side was it, then you talk about the things to
think about about. Brian Butterfield became one of my coaches. Well,
he was at the Jay's, he was their bench coach,
and he was in charge of all the pre series meetings.
He said he hated preparing for the Rays and at
that time when we played the eighteen nineteen times a year,
he hated it because there was too much to think about.
(15:29):
There was so many things to cover before the series began,
too many things. We were good at. Pressure on the defense.
You talk about pressure on their pitchers. I mean, like
today it's a little bit easier because of the rules,
throwing the first base, et cetera. But back then it
was a little bit more difficult to really corral what
was going on out there. So we gave them all
kinds of things. And then whether it was a safety squeeze,
double steal, stealing home, anything that we did, they had
(15:53):
to cover in the pre series meeting, which we just
always made it more jumbled, a seat of doubt in
their minds, which is like really a valuable tool to
be able to plant the seat of doubt in your
opposite So all these things I totally get. I guess
that's why identify with them so much, love what they're doing.
You try to steal the third base coaches signs, although
nobody does anything anymore, and then on the other side,
(16:15):
make the other team over prepared because it will get
them in trouble.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, the hit and run has gone so far out
of favor. When I see one, I'm like, is that
still legal? I still do that in the game today.
That'll be legislated against at some point. So here are
the top five teams, Joe, according to Baseball Reference, in
terms of their odds of winning the World Series. So
whatever your expectations were, it's time to change them. You know,
(16:40):
we've got forty something games left in the season, right,
Number one Milwaukee, Okay, it's real. Number two the Philadelphia Phillies,
Number three of the Houston Astros, Number four the Boston
Red Sox, and number five the Detroit Tigers. How does
that sound to your years? Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Houston, Boston, Detroit.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I mean on the first two for sure, I like
that a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I just gave you the top five, by the way, Yeah,
there's no Dodgers and there's no Blue Jays.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, I'm good. I'm still listen. I like what the
Blue Jays are doing, but I'm still skeptical because they've
just you know, they're they're the tightness of with which
they play. I mean, they've been on a nice run.
Let's just see what happens over the next ten days
or two weeks. I'd love to see it, but I'm
not convinced yet that they're that fundamentally sound Astro's pedigree.
I mean, you know, whether you like them or not,
(17:31):
banging on trash cans or not. I mean they I
saw Christian Haaber was back last night. There's this an
ability to to find pitching that's that nobody ever heard
of before is still there. So I have to I
have to give them a nod there. The Red Sox
are the ones that are interesting. They they're just making
a late charge. They signed their kid, Anthony long term
(17:53):
interesting group right there. I have to start bearing down
on them a little bit more. Crochet concerns me. The
fact that he is, you know, he's ringing the bell
right now. It's a little bit over the limit. And
I don't know, I know they're talking about I think
backing off him. He had a tough date or night
last night. And that's big. I mean, he has to
come up big for them to be that good. And
(18:13):
finally Detroit. I like them, but they're wavering a bit,
and I'm just curious to see what this is all
going to go. I don't know if they had such
a nice lead and they're resting on their the press
clippings a little bit, or they're believing everything they're reading.
They're just not as tight as they had been. That's
my only concern. But I do love I do love
Brewers Phillies. Actually, I did a gig the other day
(18:33):
and I talked about in Chicago last week, and I
Who's get Away? And I said, I like the Brewers
and the Phillies. That's exactly what I said.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, we're going to take a quick break when we
come back. I'm going to talk about a couple of
teams not on that top five list, the San Diego
Padres and Seattle Mariners. They're nearly as hot as the
Milwaukee Brewers. We'll talk about that right after this. On
the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe.
(19:06):
I love it when we have teams like obviously You're
two Angels and sixteen Cubs that win a World Championship
for the first time in at least the generation, like
a whole second, the whole generation of fans who've never
seen their team win. I mean, the city's the regions
get over the top with just complete joy. It's it's
it's for me, affirmation of how important the game can be,
(19:30):
not just as in terms of you know, athletic competition,
but what it can mean for a community and really
pull people together. And I think we're seeing that in Milwaukee.
They listen, they haven't won anything yet. I get it,
and this is kind of building in San Diego and
Seattle as well. That's three cities, three regions that have
never won the World Series. And you know, to me,
the Padres have really put a threat into the La
(19:53):
Dodgers just a game back. Now you break them down.
I mentioned this earlier. Joe the best bullpen in Major
League Baseball, no question about it, and that makes them
a dangerous post season team, whether they get a buy
in the first round or not. Offensively, they're challenged a
little bit. They're twenty ninth in home runs. I mean,
that's worse than Milwaukee. They're twenty first and hitting with
(20:16):
runners in scoring position, but they do put the ball
in play. They're the second best two strike team and
they're also second in the lowest strikeout rate, so you've
got that as well. And on the other hand, you've
got the Dodgers, who, to me, Joe, have been sort
of just marking off the days two October the way
that they're playing. And they do this with the way
they handle their pitching. Now we've seen Blake Snell come back,
(20:39):
we've seen Tyler Glassnell come back. They're still kind of
in rehab mode. Yamamoto now they're pitching every seventh day,
giving him the extra day, which they've done with sho Hey,
you know, I don't even know how to evaluate the
LA Dodgers. You know, they've had I think it's only
four days this year where they've pitched the starter on
four days rest. They use more rest with their starting
(21:00):
pitchers than any team in baseball, and they get fewer
innings out of their starting pitching. So the lack of
urgency for the LA Dodgers, and I get why they're
doing this. They have tremendous depth. They can do it,
but it may come back to burn them. Joe, And
you got the San Diego Padres breathing down their next
We all know they're not afraid of the Dodgers at all.
(21:21):
They match up really well against them. So give me
your take on the Padres versus Dodgers, who, by the way,
have the sixth highest odds of winning the World Series.
Give me your take on that race. There in the
nl West we.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Described the Dodger as well. Right now, it's like they're
getting ready for the NBC tournament Wichita, Kansas. So it's like,
you know, you're getting holding back, holding back, You're trying
to accumulate everybody well at a certain time, and then
you want to flip on the switch and hopefully beat
or believing that they could beat everybody else. I always
have a little bit of an issue with that, you know,
And I get it, Like you just pointed out, they
(21:55):
have the kind of depth that they can maneuver, manipulate
like this, and on paper it sounds really good. The
fact that they won it all last year gives them
a little bit of too. I'm quite frankly, I don't
you know, the urgency of winning the World Championship not
as severe. I'm just just a human quality. Not as severe,
not as burning as it had been, So that's part
(22:17):
of it too. Nobody would ever admit that, but I'm
saying that I believe it to be true. So there
there's still he's still looking Andrew long term. If they
don't get it this year, we still can't burn people
out for the next year in the years to come
after that show. Hey, you know, being part of the
team for so long and all the different elements they
have coming along, so they're getting red of getting reddit
ready for tournament time right now. They want to win it,
(22:39):
but if it doesn't happen, we still don't want to
beat ourselves up so badly that we don't set up
well for the years to come. Seattle over San Diego.
I like Seattle over San Diego myself. I like the
vibe what I'm seeing when I watch the Mariners right now.
Rodriguez and then Suarez is really complimented all that very well.
Their catcher, you know, down a little bit post I'll
(23:01):
start game with all the history onics there. But I
love this guy. I just think he's an So you
can't get a more throwback, gritty player than Rawley is.
And they got plenty of pitching too. If they catch
the ball pretty well. I like I like Wilson at
the Helm. I think is a steady any kind of guy.
Not I don'ntlike shilty. Shilty is the same way as
San Diego. But I think overarching. I know you mentioned
(23:23):
the bullpen, but I like overall man for man roster depth,
what they can and cannot do. I like Seattle. I
like Seattle right now. They've got a kind of a
good vibe going on. I just think again it's San
Diego is a Nation League version of the Blue Jays.
For me, something just seems to fall short at a
certain moment or point, and that's it's hard to describe.
(23:44):
They just it's just not as tightly played as what
I'm seeing with Seattle right now. So Dodgers getting ready
for Wichita. If they don't want it, that's final. They'll
go back again next year. Seattle, I think, has this
little vibe going on right now, and that city is
electric when they're going well that that Towndy show. Not
that San Diego doesn't, but a maner's got this little
(24:05):
niche thing too. That's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean you can start to see that and
feel that build in Seattle, they're on just started a
really tough I think it's a ten day or ten
game East Coast road trip. That's always key for Majoe
when you see these West Coast teams come east late
in the season like this. We all know about Seattle
the most travel of any major League team. This will
be a test for them coming east because they just
(24:28):
age come off a brilliant home stand in which they
went nine and one and the magic was just rolling.
They're an interesting team, Joe, because you know their path
to winning is through home runs. You know this their
top four home run hitting team. They're not a great
team in terms of putting the ball and play and
catching it, and they're twenty ninth with hitting in runners
(24:49):
in scoring position. They do strike out a lot twenty
fourth and strikeout rate. But I also think that things
have changed a little bit with the additions of Gino
Suarez and Josh Naylor. So when you look at some
of the overlying numbers for Seattle all it almost reminds
me of the way that the nineteen Nationals fixed their bullpen.
Their bullpen numbers were terrible, but they had kind of
(25:11):
a different look to their bullpen by the time they
got to October and I kind of look at Seattle
that way. Not a great offensive team, but better than
what we saw the first three months of the season.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, you can't really. You got to disregard those numbers
a little bit. I even forgot to mention Naylor. He's
been looking the other day, looked like he had pulled
something and hurt himself. Then the next day's hitting a
home run on a pitch over his head. Those sars
in him are like huge difference makers as baseball players
and stats are concerned, and I think psychologically for the
entire group, Wu's outstanding man, Gilbert. There's a lot to
(25:46):
like up there. For me, I didn't realize their defense
was done. I don't know where exactly. They're coming up
short big time, but you know, I don't see them
as being awful by any means. I liked them. I
don't know. Watched with those like I said, with those
swars and Naylor being part of the mix right now,
it's kind of interesting. So, like I said, if I
(26:07):
had to go head to head, I'd pick Mariners over
the Padres right now, and that the Dodgers. Of course
they're gonna be into playoffs, but it's just they something's
got to click. There's something's got to happen there to
light their fire.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, and Mookie Betts is really having a down season.
It hasn't really turned it around yet, so we'll keep
an eye on that. Interesting that Dave Roberts. I don't
want to say he called out show Heyotani, but I
did mention the other day there was a bat basis
loaded Lady chased a three two breaking ball from Jeff
Hoffin against Toronto and then Bets made the last out.
(26:40):
I don't worry about the Dodgers in terms of talent
and someone like Bets, but I do worry that they're
not clicking on all cylinders or even close to it.
And I think it's just too hard to just turn
it on once you get to October. So give me
your take on Seattle, Joe. I mean, I mentioned that
Houston surprised me that they're third with the third highest
(27:01):
odds to win the World Series. I actually thinks Seattle
is going to overtake the Astros. And that's no knock
of the Astros, and they definitely respect their pedigree and
the way they play, but they're so right handed and
there's been some issuons with health. You mentioned Hobbier's back.
We'll see how he looks. But give me your take
on whether you like Seattle or Houston to come away
(27:23):
in the American League West.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You're right, I mean they're nipping on the heels right there.
The thing that I can't you Houston is man, they
just always seem to surface or resurface. Kraya back is
a little bit of a spark. He's been doing well
right now. Let's see how that continues to play out.
I saw make some nice plays at third base also,
so you got that vibe catching up again. Is Alvarez
(27:47):
the left end hitter? Is he coming back at all?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
He should be back. It's been a long time. I
know Paradas is not coming back, but I think Alvarez
is a huge key because he's a great hitter first
of all, but also bounce out that lineup.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Dude, I'm telling you when that guy is right. I
said on the bench when I was with the Angels,
and I said to Troty, you realize this is like
top five hitter in all baseball. I said that the
trouty about Albaret's at that time.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I think if he if he gets back that the
it'll it'll tilt in their favorite. However, when you're out
that long, it was like a rister hand injury, right
that he's got going on right now.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, that's something when you.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Come back from eh, you know, you just don't know.
Those things are real tricky, even if you think you're well,
I'm just tap dancing. I still like the Astros. The
Mariners really have to prove it. Astros tried and true. Korea.
The ViBe's kind of there right now. If Albarea shows
up again, it's listen, it's gonna be interesting, it's gonna
be good, it's gonna be tight. But I still like
the Astros, just to say their building. Although they weren't
(28:48):
that good there a couple of years ago, but they're
they They just seem to know how to win when
it matters.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, as we talk about World Series odds, where at
that time of year where it's, uh, we're getting a
kind of narrow look on who can win the World Series,
there's one team we need to talk about, Joe, and
that's the New York Yankees. And one of their most
reliable players is no longer reliable. And we'll talk about
him right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
We've talked a lot on this podcast about the Yankees
and what's wrong, and certainly it's a long list when
you talk about their base running, their defense, some of
the issues in the bullpen, which they apparently have fixed.
We'll see how that plays out of the trade deadline.
But now Max Reid is a different picture than what
we first saw the first seventeen starts of the season
(29:46):
when the Yankees went thirteen to four with him on
the mound. Since the start of July, they're at two
and five when he takes the ball and his ERA
is six. It's a different picture. I know he went
through a blister issue. He had one start abbreviated against
the Cubs, and they skipped his next start against the
braz to give him some time to address that blister issue.
(30:07):
But the fact is he's back on the mound that
there's nothing wrong with his velocity, nothing wrong with his spin.
But right now his command is really poor and he
is getting hit much more than he did early in
this season. I think that he's this is a guy Joe.
To me, it's kind of like Aaron Judge on the
pitching side. You know, you need that folkrum, that guy
(30:29):
who's going to go out there and give you a
solid start every time he takes the ball six or
seven innings, you know, And that's what he had been doing.
He was a losing streak stopper whenever he took the ball.
I think the Yankees are in trouble. He's got eight
starts left and if he doesn't figure out the command
issues right now, they're going to have a hard time
just holding on to a playoff spot. And now he's
(30:50):
been throughout his career a great stretch run pitcher, especially
in September. He's got the pedigree. We know that he's
got the stuff, he's got the smarts to do it,
but so far he hasn't figured it out. A bad
start out Sunday against the Houston Astros where he gave
up five two strike hits. Not the same picture, but
(31:11):
the Yanches need him to figure out. Tell me what
you see with Max Reed.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, I mean, I know he said the blister as
well and everything, but and you gave me the numbers
are pretty consistent. However, there might just be something in
the back of his mind that he's holding back on.
Maybe he changed the grip pressure of what he the
seam on his finger somehow, only to prevent this from
happening again. It sounds like something, you know, something micro
is out of whack rider. Obviously, that's what happens with
(31:36):
a really good athlete when he's not doing well. It's micro,
it's not macro. And it sounds like that were for him.
So I'd be curious if, in fact, in order to
not have this happen again, he tried to make some
kind of an adjustment that just got him off just
a click, just a little bit. And right now, when
you get into that negative cycle coming off that, it's
kind of an injury. The blisters. Blisters are no fun, man,
(31:58):
They really are annoying. It's like an ingrown toenail on
your hand. It's just it's just really there all trying
to not have a bite. And maybe that's part of
it too, and he's just not letting it go like
he had. Hopefully, he'd like to believe, giving a certain
amount of time, that he's going to get by that
or it's going to really heal up to the point
where it doesn't bother him anymore. And if his history
(32:19):
is good in the stretch, and like, if there's nothing
really wrong with this finger, I'm betting he can get
good in the scretch. Again, it's hard to go wire
to wire all year long and be perfect in which
he had been early on, and then of course this
issue with his fingertip matters, So just give it a
little bit more time. I'm not saying that the Yankees
aren't in trouble. I agree that they are, but I
(32:40):
think just give him a little bit more time, if
in fact that's his track record, to make sure that
this thing is in order, if he had made any
micro adjustments, that he gets back to what he had been.
The two strike knocks again, are they softies? Are they bloopers?
Are they well struck? Is it just bad luck? I
don't know, so that would be part of my evaluation
(33:01):
there too. But the guy is good. I'd say by
September one, we should know.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You know, it's interesting. I think you have to go
back to when he signed with the Yankees. Obviously, Max
Fried has been a hugely successful pitcher in the big leagues,
and when he got to the Yankees, he said, listen,
I'm open to any ideas from your analyst. Whatever, technology,
you have pitch shaping, sequencing, and I applaud him for that.
And to me, Joe, he has a very different orientation
(33:27):
as a pitcher. Now he's gone from a true north
south pitcher to a true east west pitcher. It's very
unusual for me to see a pitcher who's been highly
successful make this change to this extent, he's gone heavy
in terms of cutter sweeper, whereas before he was overhand
curve for seam fastball. If you look in his career
(33:49):
before he signed with the Yankees, sixty three percent of
his pitches were curveball, four seemer. You know that's the
whole Jim Palmer, Sandy Kovax, you know, Clayton Kurshrow traditional
making swing decisions on a north south vertical basis, right,
And you look at what he's doing now. Forty three
percent of his pitches are cutters and sweepers. The cutter
(34:12):
has become his number one pitch, and I think he
caught a lot of hitters off guard. Whatever the scouting
report was on Max Freed, you know, you could throw
it out the window, and it took a while for
the league to adjust to it. And I think they
have adjusted to it, his command is not as good.
The cutter does not have the same movement when you
look at the measurements of it on glove side as
(34:33):
it did early in the season. He's just a completely
different pitcher, and it worked a perfection. I give the
guy credit because his sweeper and cutter combo were unbelievably good.
Made very few mistakes with it in the first half
of the season. But if you look at his dispersal
on that cutter, which he loves to just run in
right on the edge of the plate on inside the
(34:54):
right handed hitters, he's got a wider dispersal on it.
The command is not as good on the pitch. Is
that the blister causing that? I don't know. Maybe maybe
it's the hitters adjusting to what and now you're expecting
to see from Max Freed. I mean, you a three
to two count with Max Freed. Until this year, you
were getting a fastball sixty three sixty six percent of
the time two thirds of the time. Now you're getting
(35:15):
a cutter on three and two. So basically the scattering
report of Max Freed has changed. He is a true
east west pitcher now, not a northous pitcher. I'd like
to see him go back and throw a few more
fastballs because to me, Joe, when I look at his
release point now, his arm angle is actually lower now.
And when you get to the side of the baseball
as much as he is now, rather than getting behind
(35:36):
it on the curve ball and especially the four seamer,
it's going to change the way your hand works. And
I think you're starting to see that. I think there
has to be an adjustment at some point. I'm not
sure what it is, but to get his command back,
he's got to make that adjustment.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Now. Well, you just covered it. I mean, as you're
bringing as you brought up the topic. I'm writing notes
down and you covered everything I wrote down. The initial
success may have been that he surprised everybody, no question
about that. Maybe the blister is exaggerated by this new
shaping of pitches and how his finger was placed on
the on the ball during that time and over a
(36:12):
period of time, like the pitches did get flatter, there
wasn't the crispiness to them. And again getting away from
the elevated fastball, and that I love his big old curve.
I'm a curveball fan. I'm not as much of a
sweeper cutter fan, I'm not. I think you go to
those if you're not successful. They probably MY guess would
be that sweeper cutter easier to throw a strike with
(36:34):
than elevated fastball. Curveball. Curveball is hard to land, so
maybe they were just looking they being the Yankees, a
more efficient way to land strikes. Possibly, But I'll tell
you what, and everybody curveball. Everybody thinks the curveball is
really nasty against the same side. It's not like I
like opposite. I like when the left he's got a
good hook, where right he's got a good hook. I
(36:56):
like the righting to use it against his lefty and
the left to use it against his righty. It's a
really tough pitch when it dives down underneath these guys.
So again I don't I don't know the whole break down,
but you're right, I would be curious because I didn't
know all this stuff. That's good stuff to really let's
go back in history a little bit right now and
permit which is really a bad word to use her,
(37:16):
but let him just get back out there. Listen, get
back to your elevated fast but let's pop some more
hooks in here and right now they become savvy to
this other thing and the others pitches are getting flatter
just based on armstroke right now. Yeah, you made a
lot of great points right there, So to me, it'd
be relatively easy. And yet we're not in the room.
The conversations may have already existed or exist, but it
(37:37):
sounds to me like maybe getting back to tried and
true might be beneficial right now.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So you look at the Yankees and their two most
reliable players are just not reliable right now. It's Max
Freed and Aaron Judge.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
If you're the manager, you're Aaron Boone. All you can
go by is what the doctors tell you, right and
when this guy is ready to play the outfield so
that you can have Stanton and Judge together every day.
Right now, Judge is the DH. If you look back
at his last forty two games, he's hit two thirty
eight and the strikeout rate has really pronounced it. It's
gone up. This is a guy who's chasing four hundred
(38:11):
through the first sixty some odd games of the season,
and it's to me it's only a matter of health.
I mean, I'm sure there's Rust. I'm sure there's probably
some compensation for that flexer strain that he had in
terms of his hitting. I'm not worried about Aaron Judge,
don't get me wrong. But you know, the Yankees need
(38:31):
him at full strength. They need him to play the outfield.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
The worry here is that if he's not yet ready
to play the outfield, you put him out there and
he has to make one strong throw. You know, who
knows what can happen to that flexer. So you know, again,
am I worried about Judge? No, but I don't. I
like the Yankees a lot less if he's a full
time DH.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, it's it's a different attitude for a baseball player.
The guys used to being out there killing time in
between at batch of the DH is difficult if you're
not that guy. All the Tomic of Poppy was really
good at it, Edgar Martinez was really good at it.
Frank Thomas became very good at it. These are guys
that really lacked a position or didn't really didn't matter
to them if they played on the field or not.
(39:15):
Chilie Davis at the end of his career outstanding DH.
It's a position it's different when you have to sit
idly during the course of the game. Fill up your time,
get on a bike, stationary bike down below, go down
to the cage. Somebody throws you maybe ten pitches before
you're next that bat. You try to stay loose as
much as you can mentally and physically, and it's hard,
(39:36):
and it's hard, especially for a guy like Judge. I think,
who loves being out there, and I think it's a
he's better able to compartmentalize everything that's occurring in the
game and it makes it easier for him. So yeah,
all those are great points. Once again, I still believe
put him in the outfield. You get your second basement
way out there. I don't care what the situation is.
He lobs it back in. How many times do you
(39:57):
throw somebody out at the plate? Anyway, there was a
year with the Rays I didn't do it at all.
I had everybody throw it a second or outfield arms
weren't that good. And Zin pointed out to me that
Paul Richards, the very bright form of manager of the
White Sox back in the fifties, insist that never throw
the ball to plate, of course, unless it's the last out.
Of the winning run of the game. Otherwise I want
the ball going to second base, So there's ways to
(40:18):
get around it. But I think that they should consider that.
And again, if it's if it is late after his
last at bat saying the eighth any whatever, I knows
it's tough to put that defensive replacement in there for him. Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
So you think you can put Judge in the outfield
and have him under orders basically to return the ball
to the infielder maybe a short distance away.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Absolutely, So you're willingly giving up extra base. Obviously every
team would know that and instruct their runners run on
them every time.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Sure, yeah, I mean you have to yeak, you state them.
I think it's okay because of that second Chishnet busts
out to the outfield immediately on the to say ground ball,
base hit and Judge that's it, right back to him.
I think that will mitigate guys going because Aaron will
know how to charge the bay so Yankee Stateum, I
don't think is that big of an issue. Shoot, there'd
be a bigger right field. Might be somewhat and not
(41:08):
disagreeing with you, but again, you have to weigh the
potentialities here, whether it's Stanton hitting and Judge the hing
versus like maybe one or two times, maybe three times
where there might be some kind of a situation that
an extra base may be taken. After all, these guys
don't even care anymore if somebody steals second base. So
you'd almost have to be like paradigm shift thinking what
(41:30):
would it be equivalent to if we permitted this to happen,
or if it did happen. And so we're gonna talk
about it, We're gonna we're gonna filter through, We're gonna
get over it. It's probably gonna happen. We're gonna move on. Pictures,
be quiet, pictures. Do you want do you want Judge
in the outfield hitting or do you want an you
want Stanton in a lineup? Or do you want judges
a DH No Stanton and worry about an extra base
(41:50):
now and then. So that's that's the kind of conversation
I would have.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
That's interesting. You may see that as soon as this week.
D It sounds like Judge will not be playing the
outfield against Minnesota in the series this week. But getting
back to our World Series odds, the Yankees right now
are tenth as far as World Series odds, and the
New York Mets are thirteenth. My goodness, what has happened
in New York baseball in the last month of the season.
(42:15):
Yankees at ten, the Mets at thirteen. But it actually
sounds about right. I still think the Mets are going
to be a really good team. I think thirteen is
a little bit low, but I understand the way things
are going now, or you're not in love with that team,
but I still think they can be a dangerous team.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I'm always reminded of the two thousand and five White
Socks that eventually in the World Series, because we went
in to play them early September and they stunk. They
were horrible, horrible, like they didn't have a pulse, there
were doa I mean it was gone. And then all
of a sudden they could not do anything wrong in
that pitching staff just took off. So if they I
(42:53):
mean to me, you're gonna have to it's playing perfect baseball.
You got to pitch your butts off, you got to
catch it, you got to get the thing, the know,
the big hit all that stuff. Now, it's difficult if
you're if you've been one way for so long your
record tells you who you are. Was that Bill Parcell's
talking about the record of the team. It's true. So
it's just it's not easy to flip a switch. I
know there's guy's names on papers and stuff, but it's
(43:15):
difficult to do that. But I've seen it. Ozzie's group
that year proved it to me. But they did it.
They shut us down. We couldn't even get in their
bullpen in the playoffs that year. We win the first game,
they beat us in the second game on a controversial call,
and then after that we couldn't even get in the bullpen.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Well, it is that time of year where it's it's
actually worthwhile talking about World Series odds because it's not
that far off. We're in the stretch. Run right here
and Joe. I began this podcast talking about a quote
from our good buddy Billy Shakespeare, and you always have
the last word on this. So who do you have
in mind for the last word of this episode of
(43:54):
the Book of Joe?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
You know, I don't have actually who said? I got
so many good things here? Today?
Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's just like, I'm oh, is this from anonymous? The
most quote? What did the philosopher ever, yeah, how many
most of you saying from anonymous. I got to find
out who this anonymous guy is. He sounds very smart.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
I got a couple names attached to but my point
is I got I mean, my query today was about
too much information I was doing. I did a guest
at MLB Network and I was talking to Brian Kenney
and talking about advice to Rick Wilson with the Wilson
with the will excuse me se Rick Wilson's the scout
(44:31):
with the Mariners. And I went out and said, listen,
less information, do less less meetings, show up later, keep
them fresh, blah blah. And Ryan was kind of taken
by it. But it's true. This is the time of
the year when everybody wants to give more information, more reams,
more meetings, wearing people's brains out. I think it's absolutely wrong.
(44:51):
So I went with too much information And this is
really good. This comes from Wiley Communications. Information has become
a form of garbage. This quote conveys the feeling that
much of the information we encounter is not valuable or useful.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
That's one of my arguments. I could I'm just talking
in the baseball since in September. You give so much
information it's impossible to utilize it. And after all, at
the end of the day, who has better players playing
better baseball? Oh, the Milwaukee Brewers right now. I don't
care what their information looks like. They're just better right now,
they're playing better baseball. So I thought that was kind
of interesting. And the other one, with enough mental gymnastics,
(45:27):
just about any fact can become as shapen in favor
to one's confirmation bias. And you know that's it's true.
So right now, this time of the year, I always
want it less. I didn't want more. Just come on,
keep the guys fresh. You still have. American Legion Week
was always in August where I'd wanted the guys to
show up at this during a homestand I wanted them
there about five o'clock for like six forty game or
(45:50):
seven o'clock game. Not hit on the field. If you
want to take a couple of ground balls, that's fine,
but I wanted you there later, and I want you
to do less and I want you to stay fresh.
I wish I had the actual number, but I believe
their winning percentage was over six. The almost seventy percent
at that whenever we did American Legion Baseball normally end
of August. For the reasons I'm just stating right now,
(46:11):
so information is wonderful. Everybody's afraid to attack the fact
that there's maybe too much out there right now, and
not just in baseball but in general, and it becomes
very confusing. Do not confuse your players right now. Lead athleticism,
take over nuggets, not dissertations, is what they need right now.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Wise words, Joe, and your track record backs it up.
If you look at your numbers, your teams traditionally do
have better winning percentages in August and September. And when
you do it for as long as you did that,
that can't be an accident. So I would pay attention
to that if i'm major league teams where and I
know you've talked about this, Joe, the information and the
(46:52):
amount of bodies in your clubhouse and manager's office begin
to grow as the games do get more important down
the stretch and including into October. And what you're saying
is fight that urge and keep it simple.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Yeah, you don't need all those folks there. I promise
you don't need them. You need good baseball players that
their mind and body is rested. Give them some nuggets,
be there to support them, keep them fresh, keep them
having fun. I've always said, September provides its own energy. Okay,
the guys will find if you're in the hunt, here
(47:25):
comes September one. You're in the hunt, You're pretty good,
stead September provides its own energy. Do you don't have
to look for it anywhere. It's there. It's going to
show up every time you come to the ballpark. Why God,
it is there. So permit your guys to be athletes
right now. Let them play baseball. You know. Of course,
you might have a couple guys that have this regular
routine that they do need more. Okay, fine, but don't
(47:47):
change anything. Don't add to it right now. If you
have any urge at all, do less and not more.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
That's so good. I'm going to steal that one day,
just like I stole from Billy Shakespeare. September provides its
own energy. That's right, and I will credit you, not
credit mister anonymous.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I go by that too.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
We'll see you next time on the Book of Joe.
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