July 29, 2025 • 51 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci look back at the Hall of Fame induction speeches. Tom highlights the careers of Billy Wagner and Dave Parker. Joe remembers his time with Parker and what truly made him special. Joe tells the story of his first meeting with Dick Allen. Tom gives his thoughts on the speeches from CC Sabathia and Ichiro Suzuki. Plus, we remember HOF Ryne Sandberg and his legacy with the Cubs.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio,
Hey darreon Welcome Back. It is the Book of Joe
Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden. Joe,
I just got back from beautiful Cooperstown, New York. Have
(00:25):
you ever made a trip up there?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Joe? Only yes, once, when the Angels played the Expos
in that formerly the Hall of Fame game. Uh, you
interrupt your season for that one trip up there, but
it's definitely worth it. That was a great experience. Yes,
I was absolutely enthralled. He played in that little ballpark
and was highlighted by the fact that we permitted mcbill meyer,
our bullpen catcher, to get one at bat in that
(00:48):
game and he hit one over the seats, over the stands,
which were not very far, but nevertheless hit it really
well to right field. And then on top of that,
that's the day after that game when Marcel Lashman decided
to pack it in as we're flying back to LA
with your manager. That got that got you did the
big leagues, exciting to resign. So really a lot of
mixed emotions or memories from that trip Double Day Field.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, I know, well, Joe I actually played in the
last Hall of Fame Classic game ever played on Double
Day Field for the Toronto Blue Jays.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You did, I did.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
They had one the next year but it was rained out,
so we didn't know at the time. But it was
Baltimore against Toronto, Okay, and I struck out, popped up,
played right field.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Did impression?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Look it up?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Good? I believe you're good for you man, I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
But I was back there for more important reasons over
the weekend, and that was the Hall of Fame inductions.
And if you ever have a chance to get up there,
as you said, Joe, it's it's not easy to get to.
It's tucked away in the Finger Lakes region of upstate
New York, but it is beautiful and if you're a
baseball fan, it is sort of your baseball mecca, especially
on a Hall of Fame induction weekend. You know, the
(01:57):
greats of the game are up there. More than fifty
Hall of Famers returned for the ceremony. Five were inducted.
Two of them, you know, Barker and Dick Gallen I
know too close to your heart, Joe, were inducted posthumously.
I'm not sure if you caught any of the ceremony, Joe,
But what did you hear about it? And what were
your thoughts about the five inductees.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, I honestly did not. I was kind of like
doing things all over the weekends. I saw some video clips.
Maybe each rows speech was very well accepted. I did
think of Dave Parker primarily, and then Dick Gallen because
i'd met him both. I didn't really know CC and Etro.
Of course, Intro was involved with him in an All
Star Game in two thousand and nine, and the night
(02:35):
before the game, I was having dinner near his table
at Us on the Hill in Saint Louis restaurant. Walks
in with this little entourage and I sent over a
bottle of wine with the caveat that if he would
hit a home run on the first pitch the next night,
and the All Star gave me giggle. If you remember,
and we've talked about this is first that bad. He
did hit a ball that would have been a home run,
but he hooked a foul. So yeah, overall, there's a
(02:58):
lot there, all worthy, but Dave Parker maybe one of
the best teammates I've been around. He treated me like
gold and then I'm so wonderful here to the tributes
about him post everybody felt the same way. It was
no different the way he reacted or treated me. He
did that with everybody else. And Dick Gallon as a
kid growing up, was just the way he hit, the
(03:19):
style of hitting the big bat, the way the ball
jumped off of it. A little bit of a controversy there.
Guy was a free thinker from Pennsylvania, so there's a
lot going on there. So I was very pleased with
the fact that both of those guys didn't make it
as well as the others. But those two guys are
very special.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, I think unfortunately, Joe, you're not alone people who
missed the ceremony. Unfortunately, Baseball programs against these great moments,
you know, defining moments of players careers getting the highest
honor in the game because games are going on on
Sunday afternoons. I always thought it the perfect place for
this ceremony would be the Wednesday or Thursday night after
the All Star Game, when there's really nothing programmed against it,
(03:59):
including Major League Baseball itself, so most fans had a
chance to watch their team. Player are going to watch
their team play and a lot of people miss it.
So listen, Joe, we like to talk here on some
fundamentals of life, not just baseball. Here in his philosophy,
of course, and I thought the speech is touched on that,
so I think it's worthwhile going back and the high points,
(04:20):
not going to go through every point, of course, but
the high points of what were the really defining days
in these tremendous Hall of Fame careers by five individuals.
Let me start with Billy Wagner, because he was actually
the leadoff hitter, or he's the starter, if you will.
Billy Wagner, who never started a game in the major leagues,
and by the way, he never pitched in relief in
(04:41):
the minor leagues. How about that career. He became a
major league relief pitcher without doing it in the minors.
It became one of the three left handed relief pitchers
to make the Hall of Fame. Just an amazing career.
He talked a lot, Joe about overcoming obstacles, and I
know that's a theme on this show, right the struggle.
You're talking about someone who was born right handed, who
broke his right hand a couple of times playing football
(05:03):
in a neighborborhood. So he learned how to throw left handed.
And not only learned how to throw left handed, he
threw one of the best fastballs we've ever seen in
this game, five foot ten left. He throwing ninety seven
from a lower lease point with great carry on that fastball.
And once Randy Johnson taught him how to throw the
slider where his breaking ball didn't pop up out of
his hand but came out looking like a fastball. It
(05:24):
was lights out. Billy, in his own words, said, I
wasn't supposed to be here. And he talked about obstacles,
and he said, don't think about obstacles as roadblocks, think
about them as stepping stones. Severeance, he said, is not
just a trait, it's the path to greatness. I mean,
(05:44):
you think about his path. Boy, did those words resonate
with me?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
All makes sense, first of all, but it does make
sense to the fact that he was a starter in
the minor leagues and then he was only reliever in
the big leagues, because that's how it was done back
in the day where forgot a good arm. He wanted
him on the mound to learn to learn his craft,
and it normally would be as a starter if you
really liked the arm I'm sure at somebody obviously in
the back of their minds they thought, man, if we
get this guy to the big leagues for one inning,
(06:09):
he could really blow some folks away. So that's not
a surprise. And then the content that you just described there,
we could really identify with that. It is almost our
mantra regarding what we do here in personal lives and
how we got to these particular moments. So it's definitely
I'm sure every fan that sat there, whether you were
there to see Billy Wagner or not, you could definitely
(06:30):
identify with that. I mean, it's in every day every man,
kind of every woman kind of a situation where you
go back and you think, I never thought about being
in the Hall of Fame. I never thought about being
the president of this big company, CEO whatever, never thought
about that. I just was one stepping stone at a time,
was a building block, a ladder to climb. Harvey wanted
to describe it, but it was a lot of probably
humility gratitude involved in that. And never really forgot where
(06:54):
he came from. Obviously he has not, so I know,
I don't know Billy I've seen a pitch obviously in person,
it's dynamic, and I cannot be happy for a guy
that absolutely earned his way to the Ajor League Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
A couple other highlights of his speech, of course, he
mentioned a lot of his teammates, most of whom are
some of them in the Hall of Fame, Craig Bigio
and Jeff Bagwell. Of course, it was interesting one of
his favorite teammates, he said, one of his best teammates,
Moises al Lou. I thought that was really touching. I
think he played with Alou both in Houston and with
the New York Mets. Possibly, I'm not sure where which
(07:28):
teams they cross paths, but I found that interesting, especially
for a pitcher Joe, and you just know sometimes there's
not so much a dividing wall, but they're on different schedules,
kind of hang out with each other, between pitchers and
position players. So I found that was really interesting. Moises
Alou high praise from relief pitcher Billy Wagner.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well, Moyses Alou has got an ingratiating personality that I
think the word gregarius fits him well. I've been in
his company several times, and he is He's a big guy,
and just the Allou family in general is Felipe and
the other Alou's very outgoing personalities. Like I said, Gregarius
and I it was easy to be right. I didn't
know him. I don't. I can't say that I know him.
(08:07):
I've just been around him and I've heard how he
treats people around him. So good teammate. Wow, what isn't
that what you would love to be described as? After
you've been with a group and with the team moved
it along, and former players, teammates of yours come out
and say, Wen, he was a great teammate. It was
my favorite teammate. I've said that about I think earlier
(08:28):
about Dave Parker. What a wonderful teammate he was. That's
really about his high praise that you're going to get
from somebody that you played with in the past, that
they considered you a great teammate and they really enjoyed
playing or being with you. That's the ultimate for me,
I'm with you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
To me, that's the ultimate compliment, because in the course
of a major league season, you can't fool your teammates.
I mean, I equate it to being you're in the
Navy and you're shipped out to serve on a submarine,
and you're out on submarine for a six month deployment.
I mean, that's what it's like being around the same
group of guys for that long under high pressure situations,
and praise from teammates to me means more than anything else.
(09:06):
You know, awards are great, media interviews, highlights, all that stuff.
It's fantastic. But that's the ultimate compliment. And I think
Billy Wagner it really fits that. Bill just a great guy.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
He's the first player, by the way, who came from
a Division three school to make it to the Hall
of Fame. How about that? That is Merriam College were
probably about one hundred and thirty pounds when he came
out of high school. The Astros did see something there.
They drafted him twelfth overall. Wow, and he wound up
with a one eighty seven batting average against at a
(09:39):
thirty three percent strikeout rate. Those are the best numbers
of any pitcher who ever threw nine hundred innings in
Major League Baseball.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
With today's scouting worlds, identify that I'm not trying to
be stir anything up right here. Would they have identified
that back in the day because of his size. Primarily
it's unusual to get a short picture now. Left tanders
to me always always had an advantage. Whether you didn't
have to throw a thousand miles hour, but you had
great we went on your pitch at deception and or
(10:07):
in this situation you were a left hand or not
too tall, but you did throw the ball well and
you threw it up. But he's the kind of guy
I think possibly could slip through the cracks today. As
I was coming up as a scout, it was even
identifiable back then that even in the nineties in the
early two thousands, you wanted a guy that was six
foot two three four five were better. That was part
of the things. The dynamic regarding whether or not this
(10:30):
guy could be sustainable and maintain his strength during the
course of the year, angles, intimidation, all this kind of stuff.
So he beat all the odds. Man, he probably beat
every odd that was thrown out there against somebody, making
it as a major league player, then furthermore making it
as a Hall of Fame pitcher. So kudos to him. Man,
that's really impressive stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I will say in today's day, and age they
would find someone who threw a fastball like Billy Wagner
because he actually was ahead of the curve when it
came to the vertical attack angle five foot one, release
point off the ground, high point of the zone. A
high spin, high velocity fastball. I mean that's everywhere everybody's
looking for that. Yeah, they prefer six foot five though
than five foot ten. Next up Dave Parker, and you
(11:14):
spoke a little bit already, Joe about Dave. I thought
it was his son. Dave Parker Junior. Gave a fantastic speech.
Most of it was actually written by Dave Parker, who
found out back in December that he was voted into
the Hall of Fame by the Classic Baseball Era Committee
and passed away just a month before the inductions. So
his son went up there and just nailed it, just
hit it out of the ballpark. He told a story
(11:35):
about and you hit it at this, Joe. That the
worth of Dave Parker to me. He had that rocket
stage to his career, the second stage where he signed
with Cincinnati, went back home to Cincinnati in eighty five,
put up a huge year because his skills had been
declining a little bit and his knee was absolutely killing him.
He used to get all kinds of fluid drained out
of the knee just to get on the field and play.
(11:56):
But that's where he became this mentor and listened. He
could still hit. I think it was one hundred and
twenty five RBIs with Cincinnati. But I'm embracing, you know,
the Barry Larkins, the Eric Davises of the world. He
was a guy you wanted on your team. So he
did bounce around, not because people didn't want him, but
the exact opposite. So his son told the story, and
this is from his dad. When Tony Larussi signed him
(12:17):
with Oakland, they eventually won the World Series together in
eighty nine. He said to the Cobra, I don't care
about your numbers. Teach the kids how to win. I mean,
that's another thing, Joe you talk about. Do you hear
enough of that in today's game? That was specifically why
teams wanted Dave Parker there, just a gregarious guy, outstanding,
upbeat personality. I think he showed young players how to
(12:40):
be a professional in so many different ways, especially dealing
with the ups and the downs of the game.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Bingo, right, I mean, you're seeing some of that in
today's game too. And even with the Cubs when we
were there, and going back to the Rays, we ascended
in two thousand and eight because the addition of Cliff Floyd,
Troy Percival, and Eric Kinski that on top of all
the wonderful young talent we had, we needed those guys
there to make a difference, uh in our one loss record,
(13:06):
same thing in Chicago. You're talking about David Ross, Johnny Lackey,
Johnny Lester, Migey Montero, all these guys, they were difference
makers because they, like I, I've always said I wanted
I wanted a grown up or grown ups in the room.
Dave Parker was the grown up in a room. I
don't care who else was there. And whatever the how
big their star, how bright their star, I may have
(13:27):
shown this guy here. You just you're you just were
attracted to David walked in, or David started talking to
his immensely powerful eyes very they could be intimidating and
the most friendly Doe eyes you've ever seen in your life.
You could go both ways, and and and on top
of that, people don't understand how sharp this guy's mind was.
(13:48):
He could shred you if you want just fun in
a fun way, shred you, or he could be so
complimentary to you, and neither way. The guys could not
get enough of it. He was just that funny and
he was just that bright in his in his own
particular style. I was attracted to him. He was like
I've talked about. He was very kind to me, and
(14:11):
as I was attempting to become a major league coach,
he was very helpful to me, breaking that barrier of
getting beyond happy to be here, I be longer. I
can do this. Stage three is a major league player
or coach or a manager. Eventually he did that for me.
He showed me. I thought he was the first guy
(14:32):
that really demonstrated to me how to be comfortable on
a major league field to the point where your personality
didn't change at all. You did. He never varied from
you know, when he walked in the door, pregame, put
his Union one out for BP, whatever, came back out,
and the actual game began. The guy never changed. After
the game winner lost, the guy never changed. He showed
me a lot just by the way he was so
(14:55):
yeah platitudes. I could go on forever. I mean, I
told him this stuff straight up to he came to
Cincinnati when I was with the Cubs, sat on the
bench of little Bit. I asked if he could come out,
and he did, and I just reiterated all this to him.
How much he meant to me in my ascension as
a major league coaching then manager, just based on observation,
(15:16):
watching how he treated people and how he reacted to situations.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I got to share two quick lines from Dave Parker
Junior about his dad. I love this one. He called
his dad and this is really apporting other people, his
spiritual father to younger players. That was a great way
to put it. And he also told the story about
one time going to a restaurant in Cincinnati. Of course
everybody knew Dave Parker. He walked into a room and
(15:46):
just by size and personality, you knew he was there.
So the room everybody reacted to Dave Parker. The son
was probably a teenager at the time, maybe less, and
said to his dad, man, you've got a lot of friends.
And Dave Parker said, son, he said, he said, you
got a lot of fans. And he said, so they're
not fans, they're friends. That's the way Dave looked at
(16:07):
the public. And it was interesting that in his speech
Dave Parker, the one he wrote before he passed away,
talked about Pittsburgh being his true home. I mean Cincinnati
is his literal home, but really spoke very highly at Pittsburgh,
which is interesting because he did have some tough times there.
He was the first player to make a million dollars.
People resented players at that time as salary started to
(16:28):
go up and became more public knowledge. The famous incident
of a battery being thrown at him in right field.
But to this day he always thought of himself as
a Pittsburgh pirate. And lastly, it was really touching Joe.
The speech ended with a poem that Dave wrote himself
that his son read knowing he was going to the
Hall of Fame, and it was just it was beautiful,
(16:50):
and it was also a bittersweet, of course, because Dave
speaking from the grave. It was pure Dave Parker. He
talked about how he was a fashion icon at a
sex symbol, and when you look up tonight you will
see the star of David in the sky. Dave Parker
man more a legacy.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
He left all of that it's all true. It's all true.
He was all of that. He's again, I'm just this
is just one guy talking. But if you talked all day,
we talked about the teammates, people that he's been around,
and we've already heard the accolades coming in and all
these all these stories have been supported. Uh. The Pittsburgh
(17:25):
part of it, that group, you know, come overlapping with
Clemente a little bit, and eventually him and stargele like
almost you know, rather older and younger brother kind of
a situation, and the rest of the Pirates, Chuck, Tanner,
Bey and the Skipper. God, there was so much to
love about that group. I mean they they were all
(17:46):
about a family. We are family. Uh so he you know,
they they they walked the walk. Man, They they did it.
And I can understand why, even though he met with
a lot of success post all that, that's that was
his whe He graduated high school from thats where he
went to college. That's where it all began. And I
can understand why the worm fuzzy really starts with Pittsburgh,
(18:08):
not only because of the city and whatever else, but
because of his teammates. That was a dynamic group and
very charismatic.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break on the
book of Joe. When we get back, there's more Hall
of Fame philosophy to dive into, including the way each
he rope brought down the house. We'll do that next Joe.
(18:38):
I got to share this story on Dick Allen. He
was signed in nineteen sixty. The scout's name was John Ogden.
When Dick Allen got to the big leagues a few
years later, Ogden sent him a box of bats back
in the day. They came in four in a box,
and Dick Allen pulled the bats out of the box
and he said, man, they forgot to cut the roots
off these things. These are tree trunks. There were thirty
(19:00):
six inches and forty two ounces. Forty two ounces. Bryce
Harper swings at thirty one ounce bat. Just to give
you an idea of how big that bat was that
Dick Allen swung and he picked it up, and he
realized that what he could do was literally throw the
head of the bat, it was so top heavy. Of course,
he was strong enough, had huge hands. He became this
(19:22):
this menacing hitter that pitchers actually feared because he hit
the ball so far, so hard, and somehow was able
to swing that forty bet so quickly. I mean, they
still tell stories, Joe about home runs he hit a
Connie Mack Stadium in the length of them. You know,
we're so used to, you know, stat cast and measuring
home runs now, but back in the day, Dick Allen
(19:44):
hit home runs the way kind of Mickey Mantle did.
They made people's jaws drop.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I prefer not knowing how far, and I prefer not
knowing the exit lost. I just prefer to know that
it went over the center field fence, over the batting cage,
the turtle that they rolled back out through with Nelson
Briles flipped him with the pitch, and all of a sudden,
the next pitch went over I think it was four
four forty seven to center field at Connie Mac. They
put the turtle the batting tunnel behind that, and then
(20:08):
it was still part of the wall there and then
to the left would be the stands and too high
for him to exceed there. But he hit it far
enough to the right that he put it death center field,
right over that. Cardinals were my team. Nelson Briles loved
Nelson brows, but that ball went baut there quickly. I
saw him one day. I remember the probably sixty four
to sixty five Steve Carlton pitching for the Cardinals, and
just the very young Carlton and abusing him, absolutely abusing him,
(20:32):
and then all of a sudden, I don't know if
Carlton was still in the game. I think it was
last at bat, maybe the fourth or fifth that bat.
He hit a ball to this day off the scoreboard
in right field. Wasn't a homer. That was a huge
scoreboard and right center field at Conniemac, but it put
a dent in it. Man, it came off the bat
so hot. He inspired me as a hitting coach, the
heavy bat and you just said it. He wanted to
(20:53):
throw the head of the bat at the ball. I
created a drill with the Ponza machine back in the
day and instructional legs with the Angels where I set
a machine at thirty three feet from home plate and
it set it on low leg so that the ball
would on a ride. And I got heavier bass for
all my instruction league players. There were like thirty six
ounce thirty four inch which was heavy enough, and I
put a piece of duct tape on the barrel, and
(21:14):
the whole point of the drill was no mechanics involved.
Right here, throw the head of the bat, throw the barrel,
throw the tape on the bat, at the ball and
utilize your hands. You couldn't jump, You cant to stay
inside the ball. You couldn't be sweepy, you couldn't be long.
You had to be short to the ball, short in
the back, long out front. That was I'm telling you.
It was inspired by Alan and what he had done.
It's all true. And how do you even hold up?
(21:37):
How do you check swing that bat? And on top
of that, he wore out Nolan Ryan.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
His widow gave a brilliant speech. And you think about
the way Dick Allen broke into Major League baseball in
the early sixties. He was, if not the first, one
of the first true great African American stars of the
Philadelphia Phillies, one of the last National League teams to integrate.
It was not easy for Dick Allen. I think he
was appreciated much more his second time around in Philadelphia,
(22:05):
But his wife told the story about how he really
connected with the fans. Best story of all was one
day they Phillies were playing at Dodger Stadium, and after
a game, a little kid came up to him and
asked for an autograph, and Dick Allen said, you know, son,
he said, rather than giving you an autograph, I'd rather
you ask me a question. I'd rather just talk to
you and shake your hand. He wound up talking to
(22:26):
this kid for two hours, just going back and forth
about life or baseball or what have you. Long story short.
They formed such a relationship that that kid became a
lifelong friend of Dick Allen and his family. And he
was there in Cooperstown at the age of seventy to
see his hero and mentor inducted into the Baseball Hall
of Fame. That was so touching. She talked about how
(22:49):
the fans meant everything to Dick Allen, and he was
most proud of when he spent one year with the
LA Dodgers, and as she said, it was deeply personal
to him because putting on that Dodger uniform was a
literal connect to Jackie Robinson, who made his path to
baseball even possible. Great stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That's almost how it happened with me to meet Dick Youllen.
I was in Quad Cities, Davenport, Iowa. I was a
roming hitting instructor, and they's to sit out by the
dugout early on to write my notes what I was
going to work with with the guys out there, maybe
something that had happened the day before. And for whatever reason,
I walk out there, I sit behind a doug and
I look up and the Earth take down with the
Philly uniform on about five or six rows up from me. Seriously,
(23:30):
I okay. Apparently he was there too. There was something
going on. I can't remember specifically, but he was there,
and God, I mean, you know, meeting like your idol
right there. So I drummed up the courage, walked up
to him and started talking to him. It was slightly interested,
but he wasn't really you know, I'm Joe, I'm from him,
Pennsylvania hitting coach whatever. But then I threw something out there.
(23:50):
I mentioned, by the way, I'm from Hazelton, PA. And
that's where Pete Sarah is from, the former clubhouse guy
for the Phillies. That changed everything. Apparently him and Pete
were really tight. Pete Sarah lived on fourth or fifteen
Hay Street, and they knew all of that. And I
had met Pete a couple times back when I was
a kid. But from that moment on, we talked hitting
(24:13):
for about an hour, just he and I, and then
I persuaded him to take batting practice with us because
I wanted to see what his routine was. So this
was like I do on early mid nineteen eighties. So
I can't remember. I don't know exactly, have to do
the math how old he was. He wasn't that old.
But he went out there and he showed first part
of his VP. I want to go to right field,
then I want to drive some balls back up the middle,
(24:33):
and then I'll turn it loose for the last five
ten swings. It's a beautiful display, something I'll never forget.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Great story love that. Next up was C. C. Sabbathia,
and he actually gave a beautiful speech where a lot
of it was about the women in his life, such
strong women who were there all the time for him.
The time is he spent at his grandmother's house, how
influential his mother was, his aunt's, they were all there.
(25:00):
It seemed like half of the town of Alejo, California,
came out there to towards CC going into the Hall
of Fame. I just thought that was beautiful. It's a
speech you don't hear a lot about when it came
to the women of the family, but just the backbone
of how CC was raised. And of course he goes
into the Hall of Fame as I don't want to
say the last of the kind Joe, but certainly one
(25:20):
of them in terms of a true workhorse. Of course,
you can't forget the job he did with Milwaukee down
the stretch where he's he's heading towards free agency, and
he makes three starts in a row at the end
of the season on short rest and throws well over
one hundred pitches in all of them, including the clincher
where he closed his own game, and he lasted a
long time. I thought he had beautiful mechanics, Joe, with
(25:42):
that little pause in the back and his arm swing
stayed over his front side. Really well, just a really
good athlete. So one of only three left headed pitchers
with two hundred and fifty wins and three thousand strikeouts
Steve Carlton and Randy Johnson the others. The other thing
that he made sure that he talked about was, you know,
now he's working with and for the Commissioner of Baseball,
Rob Manfred. He's part of program called the Commissioners at
(26:06):
Ambassadorship program called CAP where he's got former players basically
being ambassadors for the game, and CC really is spearheading
that program. And he talked about how he wants to
bring back, you know more CC sabbathis in the game,
that African American kids can look at Major League Baseball
now and see many faces of inspiration out there. As
(26:27):
he said, I don't want to be the final one
of the Black Aces. Of course, the Black Aces started
by Mudcat Grant, African American pitchers who won at least
twenty games in the big leagues. And he told a
great story about how CC won a say young one
year and Mudcat said, you're not in the club yet.
He said, what are you talking about? He said, you
gotta win twenty And of course CEC did win twenty.
(26:49):
Only CC and Bob Gibson among the Black Aces who
are now Hall of Famers. So I thought that was
a touching speech In many ways. CC did not disappoint
well spoken, It was delivered just with incredible poise and
hit all around notes. I was impressed by that one.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, first of all, the Milwaukee gig when he went
out at the end of that season being a free agent.
You know, I've always liked him. I saw him with Cleveland.
I watched him as a first base coach. I watched
him from this side all the time. He was a
big guy at that time. You know, he's lost some
weight since, but he was a big dude. But he
was a good athlete and he did move really well.
But what he did in Milwaukee, that could be talking
(27:27):
about Dick Allen, Dave Parker teammates, great teammate, My god.
I mean, what he did right there exceeded any It's
again again, I could we could argue this, and this
is off the beaten path, but like it comes to
ball season now and players are skipping bowl games, they're
worried about getting hurt because they're worried about the draft,
et cetera. And that gets defended. But here's the guy
(27:48):
that was going into it a very lucrative potentially free
agency and he said, no, I came here to do
a job. I'm here to help Milwaukee win. And that's
what he did. So at that moment, I was always
liked him. I don't know him, but as a as
an observer, I thought, wow, that is some kind of
impressive feat what he did, so that stands out. I
became a lifelong fan at that point. And the second
(28:11):
part we we're talking about the game plan to potentially
find some more black aces to pitch in the big leagues,
or just more black players in general. I'd love to
know what the overarching game plan is regarding how they're
going about that. It's one thing to talk about doing
something like that, but I'd love to know specifically, you know,
what is the plan, how is that being arrived at? What?
(28:32):
What's the vehicle they've gotten in place? What is the
mechanics in order to get that? And I think it's great,
that's I guess that's what I'm driving at. Even as
a young scout, I recognize the fact that these black
players were going to basketball or football and we're missing
them out in baseball. And you turn back the clock
and you go back to the maze and the errands
and you know everything posts Jackie Robinson with so many
dynamic Cardinals, I mean, Lou Brock, Kurt Flood, my guys, Gibson,
(28:56):
all those guys dynamic. So I'd love to know what
the game plan is because I think it's I think
it's definitely worthwhile, and you have to somehow allure them
from the basketball court, where there's no minor leagues. I
just jump right into it. Football, there's no minor leagues.
I just jump right into it. I read a great
book by James Mitcher in the late seventies. I think
it was might have been early eighties Sports in America
(29:16):
by James Mitchener. It's great Pressian Reid, well ahead of
its time, but a lot of it kind of addressed
this situation in advance of it actually being an issue.
Game plan. Please, do we need to get more of
those kids out there? Man? I love the kid Simpson
with the rays right now. Yeah, yeah, I love watching
him play, man. I love the pure, unaltered dynamics, almost
(29:38):
like watching Carl Crawford. Maybe not as strong as CC,
but this really short, athletic, non robotic attempt to play
the game.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
And I love it absolutely. And then last up was
Eachi Rosazuki. Now each year in the course of his
career really didn't do a lot of interviews in English.
He understands, you know what we call the baseball English, right,
the key words and such, but he went out of
his way to deliver his speech in English, and it
was just it was great Joe, because a lot of
(30:08):
people obviously you know each euro famous player, one of
the great contact hitters ever that we've ever seen in
the game, more than four thousand hits when you include
his time in Japan. He played twenty eight seasons. When
he was first drafted by the ORX Blue Wave, he
was five foot nine and one hundred and twenty pounds.
(30:28):
Just amazing. He played more seasons than anybody professionally when
you talk about Japanese baseball and MLB, and he really
didn't change. His style of play did not change, and
he played during the period where everybody was in love
with peds and home runs, right, but his game played.
But listening to each hero, just the humor, Joe really
(30:49):
came across and serious when he needed to be. He
talked about, of course there was only one baseball writer
who did not vote for each hero, and at the
time he said, well, I have a standing offer for
that one writer who did not vote for me. I
will take you out to dinner and we can talk.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
In his speech he mentioned, by the way, as far
as that one writer didn't vote for me. The offer
has expired. It just kind of let you know in
the uberus way that he's not completely over it. He's
a very proud guy. He did an incredible personation of
Mariners broadcaster Rick Riz imperfect English. That was impressive. He
(31:27):
talked about getting his hit number three thousand with the Marlins,
where he said, at the time, I had never heard
of your team talking to David Samson to the Marlins.
That was pretty funny. But more seriously, he talked about
the greatest responsibility for a player is taking responsibility for yourself.
He said, you owe it to the fans from day
(31:48):
one to day one sixty two two, as he put it,
never put the bats away early. Make sure your equipment
was meticulously cleaned and ready, because you never wanted to
drop a ball because a lace was out of place,
or where your shoe wasn't clean enough. Just the meticulousness,
the attention to detail, and the craftsmanship of eachiro Suzuki
(32:11):
just blew me away.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
It was like listening to, you know, a master woodworker
or a master jeweler talk about his craft and the
materials and the dedication, and nothing was ever too small
to me. That was each ye row and I think
people really got a window into a player who's just
fascinating like we never did before.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, And with all of that said, and you're right
on the money. He got all those hits because he
was impossible to defend. I was in charge of defense
with the Angels at that time when he was very prominent,
and look at the spray charts, it was incredible. He
was the He was the epitome of the line of
the phrase that was that wee Willie Keeler pronounced I
(32:54):
don't know what year it was, but hit him where
they ain't. You could not defend him. I really believe
he came up to home play check things out and
decided what kind of pitch I'm gonna look for or
where I'm going to hit it. You know, almost like
Tony Gwynn almost had that ability to or did have
that ability. So you would go up to the plate
and his feet would be moving, he'd spin out of
control sometimes, but he would always Wow. It was so
(33:19):
maddingly done. I mean, okay, you play the short the
shortstops therea player infield, maybe in bunch him, bunch him
a little bit towards the gap and left center, and
all of a sudden the ball good down the left
field line. Then you play your left fielder more in
and over towards line. Then all of a sudden he
go right over the shortstop's head on the infield. One
thing I thought I noticed was he rarely ever hit
a ball down the line on the ground, So I
(33:39):
always try to get my first and third basement off
and into the hole on both sides, because if he
hit the ball on the left side and the shortstop
pad to pick it up going to his right, he's safe.
He's safe. So you have to have the third basement
cut it off in order to hopefully, you know, get
him out and have him throw him out of first base.
And then if the guy wanted to hit for power,
trust me, he could have. That was not part of
(33:59):
his gig. But once in a while when he wanted
to really catch one. You watch him vp he hit home.
I was like it was nothing. Bogs. He was the
same way Wade Bogs, another guy, great line drive hitter
that knew how to hit the ball the whole field,
so he was impossible to defend. Part of his meticulous preparation,
he'd go up there do that thing with his arm
and stick his arm out and kind of swipe the
with the bat and the other arm would go up
(34:20):
and down his that arm with the bat in his hand,
and he'd look where might hit this ball, and it
was very And then on top of the speed, the
speed was oh my god. And then okay, defense, was
there a better arm at that time in the game,
I don't know. I don't know that there was a
better arm. And then if you talk about Dave Parker,
I'd love to see those two guys throw from right
field in a contest with like maybe Ellis Valentine, Jesse Barfield,
(34:42):
those kind of guys, because that's when arms really were
prolific in the big leagues. That was part of the
scouting culture at that time. You had to have right
fielders with great arms. So all of this stuff fascinating.
He could steal the base. Not a big guy, but god,
he was so difficult to defend. And on defense, nobody better.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, he's he knows the history of the game too.
Joe On like a lot of players, I mean, maybe
as much as anybody. He said he was thrilled when
he first checked into the Otasaga hotel, he met Wade Boggs.
He sounded like a little kid. And you can imagine
how much each year. Probably admired Boggs from Afar with
his ability to put the ball in play. And he
said one of the guys he really looked forward to meeting.
(35:20):
Because now you're remember this fraternity the most exclusive in
baseball was Rod Carw and you can see some similarities
there as well.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, Rodney, Rodney has had that ability to I got
to know Boggs. He really well done in Tampa. I mean,
I just love the guy. He says a He's a
man's man for sure, and he and he and he
used to come in and see me after games in Tampa.
Bay was all jacked up, all happy when we won.
And Rodney and I worked together for several years with
the Angels and I was actually used to throw a
(35:51):
batting practice to him when I was a young coach
with the Inch organization in the eighties. And one thing
about Rod Carw was so difficult as a BP pitcher.
There was certain pitches he would not swing at, and
I mean like I thought they were strike and it
would be like maybe belltie away on the outside edge.
And as when you're throwing batting practice, you want guys
to swing at that stuff. Let's move this thing along,
(36:11):
because it makes you look bad if you're not throwing strikes.
But I swear to you he would never swing at
that one, one particular pitch. And I brought it to
his attention because I threw to him often, just in
a craftsman and when you had that kind of an
angle watching this occur, the way he laid the bat
back and then all of a sudden it pick it
up and the stroke and I mean the hand, the
hands and the hand actual were incredible. Yes, there's so
(36:32):
many similarities. And even I'll throw like I said, Tony
and there Tony Gwyn who's a teammate of mine in Boulder,
Colorado in nineteen eighty just amazing command of the head
of the bat based on they never swung the bat
with their arms so dynamic from their fingertips to their elbows.
All these guys that we're talking about, So listen, I'm
pleased for him. I got to know eachro a little
(36:53):
bit what he did in the game on parallel between
Japan and the United States.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, it's and I can only imagine what it was like,
for you putting those early age hitting charts together for
someone like each hero and to defend him. Good luck
with that. You're right, it did seem like he could
almost steer the baseball, something we always say hitters can't do. Well.
He made it look like he could at least. And
this was either his eighth or ninth trip back to Cooperstown.
(37:17):
I mean he'd gone there seven times as a player.
He would break a record, say George Sissler's hit record,
and he wanted to go to Cooperstown to learn more
about those players he was surpassing. And he really has
a fascination with the artifacts of the game too, almost
there's almost a sacredness to it to each hero. In fact,
(37:38):
he called Cooperstown a baseball sacred land. I love that
line in his speech. He once said, I don't like
to visit places. Out of anywhere in the world, besides
the places I've lived, Cooperstown is the place I've visited most.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
How about that, Well, he knew, he knew, I mean,
that was his goal. Obviously. I don't know if he
actually said that at any point. Growing up, as hell
he running Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Growing up, he didn't even know Cooperstown existed. He didn't
have any idea about MLB until he Dio Nomo came
over in nineteen ninety five, and then he started to
see everybody's carrying Nomo highlights and games, and he was
introduced visually to the game of Major League Baseball and
wanted to keep playing at the highest level. That became
(38:24):
a goal. And it was only once he got here
to the States in two thousand and one that he
heard about this place called Cooperstown and the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Well, you know, bully for him for doing all the
research and then eventually getting because I love the historian
part of it. I don't know that enough young players
today are historians of the game. It's more of a job,
an opportunity, whether it's for riches or accolades, whatever, but
the true historians of the game. When you run into
a kid like that, it's really refreshing, you know, because
(38:53):
we were just our generation and the previous ones grew
up on baseball cards and looking on the back of
them and how dramatically and important those numbers were. You know,
you in my mind's eye right now and you have
the same vision. Is that you turn the card over
from the guy's face and you look on the back
and everything was there. Man, how good he was and
(39:14):
he had the simple numbers really mattered. Been slugging percentages,
on base percentages, all that stuff. I want to know
what his batting average was, how many homers he hit,
you know, singles, doubles, etc. That was what you looked
at stolen bases. It's gotten become obviously a lot more sophisticated,
I guess. But all you needed to do is turn
(39:35):
that card over. Those beautiful baseball cars that came out
a package of ten, maybe five, with that really thin
strip of bubblegum. I could still smell it opening up
the cars, picking him up a third base lunchinet out
of the candy counter. God, there was very few things
that were better in life at that age in the world.
Because that it would love for kids today to be
(39:58):
able to elicit that kind of feeling, a visceral feeling
from just opening this plastic e celophony package of cars
with a piece of gum, and how exciting that was.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Well, it was a great afternoon at Cooperstown, New York
on Sunday, some bittersweetness to it because of Dave Parker
and Dick Allen passing away before they could make it
to this inductions ceremony. And also it acquired another layer
of really sadness when we found out about Ryan Samberg.
We'll take a quick break and talk about the Hall
of Famer, the late Hall of Famer, Ryan Samberg. Welcome
(40:45):
back to the Book of Joe. We received really bad
news early this week, Joe about Ryan Samberg. He was
not doing well. I think that sounded obvious at the
Hall of Fame induction day when there was a moment
of prayer for Ryan Samberg and his battle with metastatic
prostate cancer and he lost that battle. And it's interesting,
(41:05):
Joe that Samberg has thought it was a Hall of
Famer and as obviously as a Cub, just an incredible career.
But I look at Samberg, who was like he was
so instrumental in when the Cubs became like the Cubs
right those magic years in the mid eighties. There the
ninety six win team that came within a game of
going to the World Series. That's when Rigley really started
(41:26):
to fill And I know there were rounds in sixty eight,
sixty nine, but when the Cubs really became this national
brand and selling out games began with those years, and Samberg,
who just arrived on the scene to trade with Philadelphia,
just was this beautiful player to watch playing second base
with fabulous defense, a forty home run season, an MVP season.
(41:50):
He's such a big part of what the Cubs are today.
And Joe, in your years managing the Cubs, I'm sure
you must have come across Ryan Samberg, but you know
better than most what his impact is on the Cubs
franchise and all the people who grew up watching Samberg
who became really deep Cubs fans.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Get out of my golf course. He came to one
of my events here. He actually flew into town just
to play in our golf tournament one time, and it
was just a very big hit throughout. On top of
everything you just stated and it's all obviously true, the
one thing that on my conversation I got to know Rhino,
Ah sweet guy, just an absolute gentleman, very very supportive,
(42:32):
very positive, come to spring trainings. Dress Out loved the
banner between him and Sutcliffe. Sutt would go after him
and Rhino would just in his own little, mild mannered,
sarcastic response I loved every second of it. He was
he turned out to be, you know, developed as a
pretty good friend. You remember, after he was done playing,
he wanted to be a manager. Nobody wanted to give
(42:53):
him an opportunity. They weren't just handing out managerial jobs
to just because you had a resume at that time.
But what did Rhino do? He went back and manage
in the minor leagues? God did that impress.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I felt the same way you think about a guy
with a Hall of Fame baseball career going to the
minor leagues to prove himself. I'm with you on that.
I'm glad you brought that up. That was such to
me a defining portion of the personality and perseverance of
Ryan Zamberg, quite.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Frankly a major league manager. And I hope people take
this the right way. It's kind of insulting when they
just give these jobs to people that have never done
it before. It is I mean, it's almost like you're
actually saying almost anybody can do it because it's kind
of been reduced in a way. It's not so much
about your skill as understanding the game as much as
it is about your skill being able to talk to
the press of being a good face of the organization,
(43:42):
which is absolutely necessary to be part of the job.
When he went back, I talked him about it. I
told him, I said, straight up, I said, Rhino, I
am so. I can't tell how impressed I am with
the fact that you went that back to the minor
leagues to learn your craft some more, because listen, I'm
a dummy, and I know how long it took me
to understand what I eventually understood when I got an opportunity.
(44:02):
I got the opportunity in the night when I was
fifty fifty to fifty one, I think, and I thought
that was just about the right amount of time that
I needed to wait and incubate before I thought I
was actually ready to be a major league manager. I'd
been the interim manager several times with the Angels. I
think I managed I don't know, sixty some games or
seventy games, something like that is interim. During my time
with the Angels, I interviewed several times and was declined
(44:25):
whether it was the Red Sox, the Diamondbacks, and of
course the Angels too in Seattle Mariners. But when I
finally got the job with the Rays, I thought I
was ready to do so based on my years, you know,
riding the bus, beating the bushes just like a short
stop pass to do so. When he went back there, man,
I was so I was so enamored with it and
(44:46):
so respectful of it. And I had to tell him,
and I told him that, I told him exactly all this,
and so bully for him. I'm glad he got that opportunity.
Beyond his wonderful Major League career and the impact he
had on the Cup organization, You're absolutely correct, But beyond that,
the fact that this Hahull of Fame players, the sweet
guy would go back and do what he did in
(45:08):
an effort to become kind of a Hall of Fame
manager too. That to me speaks volumes about him, and
I respect him most of all for that.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
I always love hearing the Hall of Fame's beaches, Joe,
because you really find out the essence of greatness. And
we usually define that as skill or statistics, but you
really do find out what's behind the stories of these guys.
And for instance, listening everybody's got coaches, the high school coaches,
minor league coaches, teachers at school, those are the ones
(45:38):
who paved the way, and it was just as an
example with CC Sabbathia, he had Carl Willis there. Carl
Willis was his first pitching coach, way back when when
he signed as a nineteen twenty year old kid in
the Cleveland system, and as Ceci himself said, I didn't
even know how to grip a four seam fastball. That's
where he was starting from. So everybody had not just
(45:59):
thanking people, but they had reasons why they had Hall
of Fame careers started well before the TV cameras were
on and the stadiums were full, and I always love
hearing that. So it was lessons that to me, Joe,
you can't hear enough about to hear the stories behind
the greatness. We talk a lot on this podcast, you
know about philosophy and what makes a person, you know,
(46:23):
truly respectful, reliable. So it's always been a favorite day
for me on the calendar just to listen to where
these players go. We think that we know them, but
what's in their heart, what truly made them great? They're
always unique stories and I always love hearing them.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Absolutely. Carl the truth Willis. Carl used to put my
picture on the underneath the bill of his hat, because
every time I came in Edmonton, he would pitch, well,
he's such a great guy. Yeah. We talked about in
the Book of Joe often, don't we about the mentors
the mentorships that we had, those that group of men
and women that when we when we look back upon
however we got wherever we're at, we're so influential on
(47:01):
our success. And for me it started with my pop
and my and then eventually, you know, in our book
we talk about coach Bob Root from Lafayette College, you
talk about Bob Clear from the California Angels and others.
So at the end of the day, when you have
those real quiet moments and if you really want to
be introspective and think about, you know, how did I
get here, the same names keep popping up and the
influence that they've had on you is indelible, and you
(47:24):
feel like really fortunate that those people did cross your
paths and were willing to share what they did share
and in the way they did it. Bob Coach Bob
Route was a handholder, very positive guy. I always wanted
to gain his favorite I wanted to hear him say
good job because I knew if I did, if I
met with the acceptance of Coach Bob rut gosh, I
(47:46):
must have done something right. On the other side of us,
bob Aloo, same thing, but Bob Blu's approach you different.
Boblo would come out you a little bit harder man.
And if you didn't, if you did not want to
hear the answer, don't ask the question because you're you're
agatting it straight up, brother, And I want to believe
you know, there's a little bit I got a little
bit of both of those guys in me. Where bab
(48:07):
Aloo it was just so straightforward, He's gonna tell you
the truth. If I tell you the truth, you might
not like me for a week or ten days, but
at least you're not gonna hate me forever. And then
Coach Route was that guy that would tell you the
truth in a way that he didn't want to like,
pin you down or injure your confidence. He would say
it in a way that was he knew what you
could handle and which you couldn't handle. So all these guys,
(48:28):
you know, school teachers, mister fran Libinatti from Hazelton, PA,
who passed away a couple of years ago, the finest
school teacher I've ever been associated with, and I would
actually go visit him at home when I came home
from wherever, I go down his house and his wife
Jackie sit in the living room and we just discussed
things because that's how that's how strongly he influenced my life.
So we all have these mentors in our life, and
(48:51):
they all come at us from different directions. We pull
and peel away from them certain qualities or thoughts or methods,
and so yeah, that would be kind of cool to
hear that from these guys because we could all identify
with those people that influenced our.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Lives life lessons and words of wisdom. I lean on
you every time to end our episodes, Joe with something
along those lines. So this last bit of philosophy, I
turned to you, What do you got to close out
this episode of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I have the word truth. The word truth is in
this in this quote of the day, and my motivation
because I'm always wanting to be transparent. It's like a
lot of the things I read in the papers right now,
where like in today's game, I mean the manager's role
of the manager I'm just I'm guilty of it in
a lot of ways. Where I said, do you praise
publicly and criticize privately, but they also have to be
pragmatic and honest in a certain way. And when you
(49:40):
don't do that, I mean you can lose favor in
a sense or credibility because of that. So that was
part of my motivation. And then we're talking about, you
know this truth tellers and how important it is to us.
So I don't know this was exactly germane, but this
is something that I really because of reading the newspapers
and because of the first reason I gave this kind
of steered me to this direction, which I love this quote.
(50:02):
I can't remember the book that I read it in,
but I had it. It's on the tip of my
brain all the time because I think it's apropos And again,
just call it down a little bit to try to
understand where I'm coming from. But the leaders of the
Soviet Union had a dangerous tendency to deny the truth
of bad news, and so I love truth Tellers. Is
(50:23):
literally what it comes down to. And when you conflate
the truth and all of a sudden try to make
it exactly talk when you've tried to distill it to
the point where it works in your favor, and you
try to convince others that it is accurate or true,
even though it's not that bothers me. It obviously bothered
me, and I recognize it very quickly. And it might have
been a Clancy book. It could have been I'm not sure.
(50:44):
It could have also been Eric Larson. I'm not sure.
But the leaders of the Soviet Union had a dangerous
tendency to deny the truth of bad news. And that's
not a good thing. So truth tellers are very important
in our society and to me. And if you want,
you know, see the best side of me, and you
want a friend forever, just tell me the truth.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
You're Jack Ryan's side.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, right, that's it is exactly it don't after the
game RV would walk in, Rick Vaughan, we'd have some
situation would pop up, and this is how we're going
to approach this, I said, r we were going Jack
Ryan tonight not only was one of my one of
my friends, he's one of my best friends. And when
you when you run towards it, it disarms it very quickly.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Great advice Joe, We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe, see your brother, thank you. The Book
of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(51:42):
wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio,
Hey darreon Welcome Back. It is the Book of Joe
Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden. Joe,
I just got back from beautiful Cooperstown, New York. Have
(00:25):
you ever made a trip up there?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Joe? Only yes, once, when the Angels played the Expos
in that formerly the Hall of Fame game. Uh, you
interrupt your season for that one trip up there, but
it's definitely worth it. That was a great experience. Yes,
I was absolutely enthralled. He played in that little ballpark
and was highlighted by the fact that we permitted mcbill meyer,
our bullpen catcher, to get one at bat in that
(00:48):
game and he hit one over the seats, over the stands,
which were not very far, but nevertheless hit it really
well to right field. And then on top of that,
that's the day after that game when Marcel Lashman decided
to pack it in as we're flying back to LA
with your manager. That got that got you did the
big leagues, exciting to resign. So really a lot of
mixed emotions or memories from that trip Double Day Field.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, I know, well, Joe I actually played in the
last Hall of Fame Classic game ever played on Double
Day Field for the Toronto Blue Jays.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You did, I did.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
They had one the next year but it was rained out,
so we didn't know at the time. But it was
Baltimore against Toronto, Okay, and I struck out, popped up,
played right field.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Did impression?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Look it up?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Good? I believe you're good for you man, I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
But I was back there for more important reasons over
the weekend, and that was the Hall of Fame inductions.
And if you ever have a chance to get up there,
as you said, Joe, it's it's not easy to get to.
It's tucked away in the Finger Lakes region of upstate
New York, but it is beautiful and if you're a
baseball fan, it is sort of your baseball mecca, especially
on a Hall of Fame induction weekend. You know, the
(01:57):
greats of the game are up there. More than fifty
Hall of Famers returned for the ceremony. Five were inducted.
Two of them, you know, Barker and Dick Gallen I
know too close to your heart, Joe, were inducted posthumously.
I'm not sure if you caught any of the ceremony, Joe,
But what did you hear about it? And what were
your thoughts about the five inductees.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, I honestly did not. I was kind of like
doing things all over the weekends. I saw some video clips.
Maybe each rows speech was very well accepted. I did
think of Dave Parker primarily, and then Dick Gallen because
i'd met him both. I didn't really know CC and Etro.
Of course, Intro was involved with him in an All
Star Game in two thousand and nine, and the night
(02:35):
before the game, I was having dinner near his table
at Us on the Hill in Saint Louis restaurant. Walks
in with this little entourage and I sent over a
bottle of wine with the caveat that if he would
hit a home run on the first pitch the next night,
and the All Star gave me giggle. If you remember,
and we've talked about this is first that bad. He
did hit a ball that would have been a home run,
but he hooked a foul. So yeah, overall, there's a
(02:58):
lot there, all worthy, but Dave Parker maybe one of
the best teammates I've been around. He treated me like
gold and then I'm so wonderful here to the tributes
about him post everybody felt the same way. It was
no different the way he reacted or treated me. He
did that with everybody else. And Dick Gallon as a
kid growing up, was just the way he hit, the
(03:19):
style of hitting the big bat, the way the ball
jumped off of it. A little bit of a controversy there.
Guy was a free thinker from Pennsylvania, so there's a
lot going on there. So I was very pleased with
the fact that both of those guys didn't make it
as well as the others. But those two guys are
very special.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, I think unfortunately, Joe, you're not alone people who
missed the ceremony. Unfortunately, Baseball programs against these great moments,
you know, defining moments of players careers getting the highest
honor in the game because games are going on on
Sunday afternoons. I always thought it the perfect place for
this ceremony would be the Wednesday or Thursday night after
the All Star Game, when there's really nothing programmed against it,
(03:59):
including Major League Baseball itself, so most fans had a
chance to watch their team. Player are going to watch
their team play and a lot of people miss it.
So listen, Joe, we like to talk here on some
fundamentals of life, not just baseball. Here in his philosophy,
of course, and I thought the speech is touched on that,
so I think it's worthwhile going back and the high points,
(04:20):
not going to go through every point, of course, but
the high points of what were the really defining days
in these tremendous Hall of Fame careers by five individuals.
Let me start with Billy Wagner, because he was actually
the leadoff hitter, or he's the starter, if you will.
Billy Wagner, who never started a game in the major leagues,
and by the way, he never pitched in relief in
(04:41):
the minor leagues. How about that career. He became a
major league relief pitcher without doing it in the minors.
It became one of the three left handed relief pitchers
to make the Hall of Fame. Just an amazing career.
He talked a lot, Joe about overcoming obstacles, and I
know that's a theme on this show, right the struggle.
You're talking about someone who was born right handed, who
broke his right hand a couple of times playing football
(05:03):
in a neighborborhood. So he learned how to throw left handed.
And not only learned how to throw left handed, he
threw one of the best fastballs we've ever seen in
this game, five foot ten left. He throwing ninety seven
from a lower lease point with great carry on that fastball.
And once Randy Johnson taught him how to throw the
slider where his breaking ball didn't pop up out of
his hand but came out looking like a fastball. It
(05:24):
was lights out. Billy, in his own words, said, I
wasn't supposed to be here. And he talked about obstacles,
and he said, don't think about obstacles as roadblocks, think
about them as stepping stones. Severeance, he said, is not
just a trait, it's the path to greatness. I mean,
(05:44):
you think about his path. Boy, did those words resonate
with me?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
All makes sense, first of all, but it does make
sense to the fact that he was a starter in
the minor leagues and then he was only reliever in
the big leagues, because that's how it was done back
in the day where forgot a good arm. He wanted
him on the mound to learn to learn his craft,
and it normally would be as a starter if you
really liked the arm I'm sure at somebody obviously in
the back of their minds they thought, man, if we
get this guy to the big leagues for one inning,
(06:09):
he could really blow some folks away. So that's not
a surprise. And then the content that you just described there,
we could really identify with that. It is almost our
mantra regarding what we do here in personal lives and
how we got to these particular moments. So it's definitely
I'm sure every fan that sat there, whether you were
there to see Billy Wagner or not, you could definitely
(06:30):
identify with that. I mean, it's in every day every man,
kind of every woman kind of a situation where you
go back and you think, I never thought about being
in the Hall of Fame. I never thought about being
the president of this big company, CEO whatever, never thought
about that. I just was one stepping stone at a time,
was a building block, a ladder to climb. Harvey wanted
to describe it, but it was a lot of probably
humility gratitude involved in that. And never really forgot where
(06:54):
he came from. Obviously he has not, so I know,
I don't know Billy I've seen a pitch obviously in person,
it's dynamic, and I cannot be happy for a guy
that absolutely earned his way to the Ajor League Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
A couple other highlights of his speech, of course, he
mentioned a lot of his teammates, most of whom are
some of them in the Hall of Fame, Craig Bigio
and Jeff Bagwell. Of course, it was interesting one of
his favorite teammates, he said, one of his best teammates,
Moises al Lou. I thought that was really touching. I
think he played with Alou both in Houston and with
the New York Mets. Possibly, I'm not sure where which
(07:28):
teams they cross paths, but I found that interesting, especially
for a pitcher Joe, and you just know sometimes there's
not so much a dividing wall, but they're on different schedules,
kind of hang out with each other, between pitchers and
position players. So I found that was really interesting. Moises
Alou high praise from relief pitcher Billy Wagner.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well, Moyses Alou has got an ingratiating personality that I
think the word gregarius fits him well. I've been in
his company several times, and he is He's a big guy,
and just the Allou family in general is Felipe and
the other Alou's very outgoing personalities. Like I said, Gregarius
and I it was easy to be right. I didn't
know him. I don't. I can't say that I know him.
(08:07):
I've just been around him and I've heard how he
treats people around him. So good teammate. Wow, what isn't
that what you would love to be described as? After
you've been with a group and with the team moved
it along, and former players, teammates of yours come out
and say, Wen, he was a great teammate. It was
my favorite teammate. I've said that about I think earlier
(08:28):
about Dave Parker. What a wonderful teammate he was. That's
really about his high praise that you're going to get
from somebody that you played with in the past, that
they considered you a great teammate and they really enjoyed
playing or being with you. That's the ultimate for me,
I'm with you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
To me, that's the ultimate compliment, because in the course
of a major league season, you can't fool your teammates.
I mean, I equate it to being you're in the
Navy and you're shipped out to serve on a submarine,
and you're out on submarine for a six month deployment.
I mean, that's what it's like being around the same
group of guys for that long under high pressure situations,
and praise from teammates to me means more than anything else.
(09:06):
You know, awards are great, media interviews, highlights, all that stuff.
It's fantastic. But that's the ultimate compliment. And I think
Billy Wagner it really fits that. Bill just a great guy.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
He's the first player, by the way, who came from
a Division three school to make it to the Hall
of Fame. How about that? That is Merriam College were
probably about one hundred and thirty pounds when he came
out of high school. The Astros did see something there.
They drafted him twelfth overall. Wow, and he wound up
with a one eighty seven batting average against at a
(09:39):
thirty three percent strikeout rate. Those are the best numbers
of any pitcher who ever threw nine hundred innings in
Major League Baseball.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
With today's scouting worlds, identify that I'm not trying to
be stir anything up right here. Would they have identified
that back in the day because of his size. Primarily
it's unusual to get a short picture now. Left tanders
to me always always had an advantage. Whether you didn't
have to throw a thousand miles hour, but you had
great we went on your pitch at deception and or
(10:07):
in this situation you were a left hand or not
too tall, but you did throw the ball well and
you threw it up. But he's the kind of guy
I think possibly could slip through the cracks today. As
I was coming up as a scout, it was even
identifiable back then that even in the nineties in the
early two thousands, you wanted a guy that was six
foot two three four five were better. That was part
of the things. The dynamic regarding whether or not this
(10:30):
guy could be sustainable and maintain his strength during the
course of the year, angles, intimidation, all this kind of stuff.
So he beat all the odds. Man, he probably beat
every odd that was thrown out there against somebody, making
it as a major league player, then furthermore making it
as a Hall of Fame pitcher. So kudos to him. Man,
that's really impressive stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I will say in today's day, and age they
would find someone who threw a fastball like Billy Wagner
because he actually was ahead of the curve when it
came to the vertical attack angle five foot one, release
point off the ground, high point of the zone. A
high spin, high velocity fastball. I mean that's everywhere everybody's
looking for that. Yeah, they prefer six foot five though
than five foot ten. Next up Dave Parker, and you
(11:14):
spoke a little bit already, Joe about Dave. I thought
it was his son. Dave Parker Junior. Gave a fantastic speech.
Most of it was actually written by Dave Parker, who
found out back in December that he was voted into
the Hall of Fame by the Classic Baseball Era Committee
and passed away just a month before the inductions. So
his son went up there and just nailed it, just
hit it out of the ballpark. He told a story
(11:35):
about and you hit it at this, Joe. That the
worth of Dave Parker to me. He had that rocket
stage to his career, the second stage where he signed
with Cincinnati, went back home to Cincinnati in eighty five,
put up a huge year because his skills had been
declining a little bit and his knee was absolutely killing him.
He used to get all kinds of fluid drained out
of the knee just to get on the field and play.
(11:56):
But that's where he became this mentor and listened. He
could still hit. I think it was one hundred and
twenty five RBIs with Cincinnati. But I'm embracing, you know,
the Barry Larkins, the Eric Davises of the world. He
was a guy you wanted on your team. So he
did bounce around, not because people didn't want him, but
the exact opposite. So his son told the story, and
this is from his dad. When Tony Larussi signed him
(12:17):
with Oakland, they eventually won the World Series together in
eighty nine. He said to the Cobra, I don't care
about your numbers. Teach the kids how to win. I mean,
that's another thing, Joe you talk about. Do you hear
enough of that in today's game? That was specifically why
teams wanted Dave Parker there, just a gregarious guy, outstanding,
upbeat personality. I think he showed young players how to
(12:40):
be a professional in so many different ways, especially dealing
with the ups and the downs of the game.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Bingo, right, I mean, you're seeing some of that in
today's game too. And even with the Cubs when we
were there, and going back to the Rays, we ascended
in two thousand and eight because the addition of Cliff Floyd,
Troy Percival, and Eric Kinski that on top of all
the wonderful young talent we had, we needed those guys
there to make a difference, uh in our one loss record,
(13:06):
same thing in Chicago. You're talking about David Ross, Johnny Lackey,
Johnny Lester, Migey Montero, all these guys, they were difference
makers because they, like I, I've always said I wanted
I wanted a grown up or grown ups in the room.
Dave Parker was the grown up in a room. I
don't care who else was there. And whatever the how
big their star, how bright their star, I may have
(13:27):
shown this guy here. You just you're you just were
attracted to David walked in, or David started talking to
his immensely powerful eyes very they could be intimidating and
the most friendly Doe eyes you've ever seen in your life.
You could go both ways, and and and on top
of that, people don't understand how sharp this guy's mind was.
(13:48):
He could shred you if you want just fun in
a fun way, shred you, or he could be so
complimentary to you, and neither way. The guys could not
get enough of it. He was just that funny and
he was just that bright in his in his own
particular style. I was attracted to him. He was like
I've talked about. He was very kind to me, and
(14:11):
as I was attempting to become a major league coach,
he was very helpful to me, breaking that barrier of
getting beyond happy to be here, I be longer. I
can do this. Stage three is a major league player
or coach or a manager. Eventually he did that for me.
He showed me. I thought he was the first guy
(14:32):
that really demonstrated to me how to be comfortable on
a major league field to the point where your personality
didn't change at all. You did. He never varied from
you know, when he walked in the door, pregame, put
his Union one out for BP, whatever, came back out,
and the actual game began. The guy never changed. After
the game winner lost, the guy never changed. He showed
me a lot just by the way he was so
(14:55):
yeah platitudes. I could go on forever. I mean, I
told him this stuff straight up to he came to
Cincinnati when I was with the Cubs, sat on the
bench of little Bit. I asked if he could come out,
and he did, and I just reiterated all this to him.
How much he meant to me in my ascension as
a major league coaching then manager, just based on observation,
(15:16):
watching how he treated people and how he reacted to situations.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I got to share two quick lines from Dave Parker
Junior about his dad. I love this one. He called
his dad and this is really apporting other people, his
spiritual father to younger players. That was a great way
to put it. And he also told the story about
one time going to a restaurant in Cincinnati. Of course
everybody knew Dave Parker. He walked into a room and
(15:46):
just by size and personality, you knew he was there.
So the room everybody reacted to Dave Parker. The son
was probably a teenager at the time, maybe less, and
said to his dad, man, you've got a lot of friends.
And Dave Parker said, son, he said, he said, you
got a lot of fans. And he said, so they're
not fans, they're friends. That's the way Dave looked at
(16:07):
the public. And it was interesting that in his speech
Dave Parker, the one he wrote before he passed away,
talked about Pittsburgh being his true home. I mean Cincinnati
is his literal home, but really spoke very highly at Pittsburgh,
which is interesting because he did have some tough times there.
He was the first player to make a million dollars.
People resented players at that time as salary started to
(16:28):
go up and became more public knowledge. The famous incident
of a battery being thrown at him in right field.
But to this day he always thought of himself as
a Pittsburgh pirate. And lastly, it was really touching Joe.
The speech ended with a poem that Dave wrote himself
that his son read knowing he was going to the
Hall of Fame, and it was just it was beautiful,
(16:50):
and it was also a bittersweet, of course, because Dave
speaking from the grave. It was pure Dave Parker. He
talked about how he was a fashion icon at a
sex symbol, and when you look up tonight you will
see the star of David in the sky. Dave Parker
man more a legacy.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
He left all of that it's all true. It's all true.
He was all of that. He's again, I'm just this
is just one guy talking. But if you talked all day,
we talked about the teammates, people that he's been around,
and we've already heard the accolades coming in and all
these all these stories have been supported. Uh. The Pittsburgh
(17:25):
part of it, that group, you know, come overlapping with
Clemente a little bit, and eventually him and stargele like
almost you know, rather older and younger brother kind of
a situation, and the rest of the Pirates, Chuck, Tanner,
Bey and the Skipper. God, there was so much to
love about that group. I mean they they were all
(17:46):
about a family. We are family. Uh so he you know,
they they they walked the walk. Man, They they did it.
And I can understand why, even though he met with
a lot of success post all that, that's that was
his whe He graduated high school from thats where he
went to college. That's where it all began. And I
can understand why the worm fuzzy really starts with Pittsburgh,
(18:08):
not only because of the city and whatever else, but
because of his teammates. That was a dynamic group and
very charismatic.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break on the
book of Joe. When we get back, there's more Hall
of Fame philosophy to dive into, including the way each
he rope brought down the house. We'll do that next Joe.
(18:38):
I got to share this story on Dick Allen. He
was signed in nineteen sixty. The scout's name was John Ogden.
When Dick Allen got to the big leagues a few
years later, Ogden sent him a box of bats back
in the day. They came in four in a box,
and Dick Allen pulled the bats out of the box
and he said, man, they forgot to cut the roots
off these things. These are tree trunks. There were thirty
(19:00):
six inches and forty two ounces. Forty two ounces. Bryce
Harper swings at thirty one ounce bat. Just to give
you an idea of how big that bat was that
Dick Allen swung and he picked it up, and he
realized that what he could do was literally throw the
head of the bat, it was so top heavy. Of course,
he was strong enough, had huge hands. He became this
(19:22):
this menacing hitter that pitchers actually feared because he hit
the ball so far, so hard, and somehow was able
to swing that forty bet so quickly. I mean, they
still tell stories, Joe about home runs he hit a
Connie Mack Stadium in the length of them. You know,
we're so used to, you know, stat cast and measuring
home runs now, but back in the day, Dick Allen
(19:44):
hit home runs the way kind of Mickey Mantle did.
They made people's jaws drop.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I prefer not knowing how far, and I prefer not
knowing the exit lost. I just prefer to know that
it went over the center field fence, over the batting cage,
the turtle that they rolled back out through with Nelson
Briles flipped him with the pitch, and all of a sudden,
the next pitch went over I think it was four
four forty seven to center field at Connie Mac. They
put the turtle the batting tunnel behind that, and then
(20:08):
it was still part of the wall there and then
to the left would be the stands and too high
for him to exceed there. But he hit it far
enough to the right that he put it death center field,
right over that. Cardinals were my team. Nelson Briles loved
Nelson brows, but that ball went baut there quickly. I
saw him one day. I remember the probably sixty four
to sixty five Steve Carlton pitching for the Cardinals, and
just the very young Carlton and abusing him, absolutely abusing him,
(20:32):
and then all of a sudden, I don't know if
Carlton was still in the game. I think it was
last at bat, maybe the fourth or fifth that bat.
He hit a ball to this day off the scoreboard
in right field. Wasn't a homer. That was a huge
scoreboard and right center field at Conniemac, but it put
a dent in it. Man, it came off the bat
so hot. He inspired me as a hitting coach, the
heavy bat and you just said it. He wanted to
(20:53):
throw the head of the bat at the ball. I
created a drill with the Ponza machine back in the
day and instructional legs with the Angels where I set
a machine at thirty three feet from home plate and
it set it on low leg so that the ball
would on a ride. And I got heavier bass for
all my instruction league players. There were like thirty six
ounce thirty four inch which was heavy enough, and I
put a piece of duct tape on the barrel, and
(21:14):
the whole point of the drill was no mechanics involved.
Right here, throw the head of the bat, throw the barrel,
throw the tape on the bat, at the ball and
utilize your hands. You couldn't jump, You cant to stay
inside the ball. You couldn't be sweepy, you couldn't be long.
You had to be short to the ball, short in
the back, long out front. That was I'm telling you.
It was inspired by Alan and what he had done.
It's all true. And how do you even hold up?
(21:37):
How do you check swing that bat? And on top
of that, he wore out Nolan Ryan.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
His widow gave a brilliant speech. And you think about
the way Dick Allen broke into Major League baseball in
the early sixties. He was, if not the first, one
of the first true great African American stars of the
Philadelphia Phillies, one of the last National League teams to integrate.
It was not easy for Dick Allen. I think he
was appreciated much more his second time around in Philadelphia,
(22:05):
But his wife told the story about how he really
connected with the fans. Best story of all was one
day they Phillies were playing at Dodger Stadium, and after
a game, a little kid came up to him and
asked for an autograph, and Dick Allen said, you know, son,
he said, rather than giving you an autograph, I'd rather
you ask me a question. I'd rather just talk to
you and shake your hand. He wound up talking to
(22:26):
this kid for two hours, just going back and forth
about life or baseball or what have you. Long story short.
They formed such a relationship that that kid became a
lifelong friend of Dick Allen and his family. And he
was there in Cooperstown at the age of seventy to
see his hero and mentor inducted into the Baseball Hall
of Fame. That was so touching. She talked about how
(22:49):
the fans meant everything to Dick Allen, and he was
most proud of when he spent one year with the
LA Dodgers, and as she said, it was deeply personal
to him because putting on that Dodger uniform was a
literal connect to Jackie Robinson, who made his path to
baseball even possible. Great stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That's almost how it happened with me to meet Dick Youllen.
I was in Quad Cities, Davenport, Iowa. I was a
roming hitting instructor, and they's to sit out by the
dugout early on to write my notes what I was
going to work with with the guys out there, maybe
something that had happened the day before. And for whatever reason,
I walk out there, I sit behind a doug and
I look up and the Earth take down with the
Philly uniform on about five or six rows up from me. Seriously,
(23:30):
I okay. Apparently he was there too. There was something
going on. I can't remember specifically, but he was there,
and God, I mean, you know, meeting like your idol
right there. So I drummed up the courage, walked up
to him and started talking to him. It was slightly interested,
but he wasn't really you know, I'm Joe, I'm from him,
Pennsylvania hitting coach whatever. But then I threw something out there.
(23:50):
I mentioned, by the way, I'm from Hazelton, PA. And
that's where Pete Sarah is from, the former clubhouse guy
for the Phillies. That changed everything. Apparently him and Pete
were really tight. Pete Sarah lived on fourth or fifteen
Hay Street, and they knew all of that. And I
had met Pete a couple times back when I was
a kid. But from that moment on, we talked hitting
(24:13):
for about an hour, just he and I, and then
I persuaded him to take batting practice with us because
I wanted to see what his routine was. So this
was like I do on early mid nineteen eighties. So
I can't remember. I don't know exactly, have to do
the math how old he was. He wasn't that old.
But he went out there and he showed first part
of his VP. I want to go to right field,
then I want to drive some balls back up the middle,
(24:33):
and then I'll turn it loose for the last five
ten swings. It's a beautiful display, something I'll never forget.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Great story love that. Next up was C. C. Sabbathia,
and he actually gave a beautiful speech where a lot
of it was about the women in his life, such
strong women who were there all the time for him.
The time is he spent at his grandmother's house, how
influential his mother was, his aunt's, they were all there.
(25:00):
It seemed like half of the town of Alejo, California,
came out there to towards CC going into the Hall
of Fame. I just thought that was beautiful. It's a
speech you don't hear a lot about when it came
to the women of the family, but just the backbone
of how CC was raised. And of course he goes
into the Hall of Fame as I don't want to
say the last of the kind Joe, but certainly one
(25:20):
of them in terms of a true workhorse. Of course,
you can't forget the job he did with Milwaukee down
the stretch where he's he's heading towards free agency, and
he makes three starts in a row at the end
of the season on short rest and throws well over
one hundred pitches in all of them, including the clincher
where he closed his own game, and he lasted a
long time. I thought he had beautiful mechanics, Joe, with
(25:42):
that little pause in the back and his arm swing
stayed over his front side. Really well, just a really
good athlete. So one of only three left headed pitchers
with two hundred and fifty wins and three thousand strikeouts
Steve Carlton and Randy Johnson the others. The other thing
that he made sure that he talked about was, you know,
now he's working with and for the Commissioner of Baseball,
Rob Manfred. He's part of program called the Commissioners at
(26:06):
Ambassadorship program called CAP where he's got former players basically
being ambassadors for the game, and CC really is spearheading
that program. And he talked about how he wants to
bring back, you know more CC sabbathis in the game,
that African American kids can look at Major League Baseball
now and see many faces of inspiration out there. As
(26:27):
he said, I don't want to be the final one
of the Black Aces. Of course, the Black Aces started
by Mudcat Grant, African American pitchers who won at least
twenty games in the big leagues. And he told a
great story about how CC won a say young one
year and Mudcat said, you're not in the club yet.
He said, what are you talking about? He said, you
gotta win twenty And of course CEC did win twenty.
(26:49):
Only CC and Bob Gibson among the Black Aces who
are now Hall of Famers. So I thought that was
a touching speech In many ways. CC did not disappoint
well spoken, It was delivered just with incredible poise and
hit all around notes. I was impressed by that one.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, first of all, the Milwaukee gig when he went
out at the end of that season being a free agent.
You know, I've always liked him. I saw him with Cleveland.
I watched him as a first base coach. I watched
him from this side all the time. He was a
big guy at that time. You know, he's lost some
weight since, but he was a big dude. But he
was a good athlete and he did move really well.
But what he did in Milwaukee, that could be talking
(27:27):
about Dick Allen, Dave Parker teammates, great teammate, My god.
I mean, what he did right there exceeded any It's
again again, I could we could argue this, and this
is off the beaten path, but like it comes to
ball season now and players are skipping bowl games, they're
worried about getting hurt because they're worried about the draft,
et cetera. And that gets defended. But here's the guy
(27:48):
that was going into it a very lucrative potentially free
agency and he said, no, I came here to do
a job. I'm here to help Milwaukee win. And that's
what he did. So at that moment, I was always
liked him. I don't know him, but as a as
an observer, I thought, wow, that is some kind of
impressive feat what he did, so that stands out. I
became a lifelong fan at that point. And the second
(28:11):
part we we're talking about the game plan to potentially
find some more black aces to pitch in the big leagues,
or just more black players in general. I'd love to
know what the overarching game plan is regarding how they're
going about that. It's one thing to talk about doing
something like that, but I'd love to know specifically, you know,
what is the plan, how is that being arrived at? What?
(28:32):
What's the vehicle they've gotten in place? What is the
mechanics in order to get that? And I think it's great,
that's I guess that's what I'm driving at. Even as
a young scout, I recognize the fact that these black
players were going to basketball or football and we're missing
them out in baseball. And you turn back the clock
and you go back to the maze and the errands
and you know everything posts Jackie Robinson with so many
dynamic Cardinals, I mean, Lou Brock, Kurt Flood, my guys, Gibson,
(28:56):
all those guys dynamic. So I'd love to know what
the game plan is because I think it's I think
it's definitely worthwhile, and you have to somehow allure them
from the basketball court, where there's no minor leagues. I
just jump right into it. Football, there's no minor leagues.
I just jump right into it. I read a great
book by James Mitcher in the late seventies. I think
it was might have been early eighties Sports in America
(29:16):
by James Mitchener. It's great Pressian Reid, well ahead of
its time, but a lot of it kind of addressed
this situation in advance of it actually being an issue.
Game plan. Please, do we need to get more of
those kids out there? Man? I love the kid Simpson
with the rays right now. Yeah, yeah, I love watching
him play, man. I love the pure, unaltered dynamics, almost
(29:38):
like watching Carl Crawford. Maybe not as strong as CC,
but this really short, athletic, non robotic attempt to play
the game.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
And I love it absolutely. And then last up was
Eachi Rosazuki. Now each year in the course of his
career really didn't do a lot of interviews in English.
He understands, you know what we call the baseball English, right,
the key words and such, but he went out of
his way to deliver his speech in English, and it
was just it was great Joe, because a lot of
(30:08):
people obviously you know each euro famous player, one of
the great contact hitters ever that we've ever seen in
the game, more than four thousand hits when you include
his time in Japan. He played twenty eight seasons. When
he was first drafted by the ORX Blue Wave, he
was five foot nine and one hundred and twenty pounds.
(30:28):
Just amazing. He played more seasons than anybody professionally when
you talk about Japanese baseball and MLB, and he really
didn't change. His style of play did not change, and
he played during the period where everybody was in love
with peds and home runs, right, but his game played.
But listening to each hero, just the humor, Joe really
(30:49):
came across and serious when he needed to be. He
talked about, of course there was only one baseball writer
who did not vote for each hero, and at the
time he said, well, I have a standing offer for
that one writer who did not vote for me. I
will take you out to dinner and we can talk.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
In his speech he mentioned, by the way, as far
as that one writer didn't vote for me. The offer
has expired. It just kind of let you know in
the uberus way that he's not completely over it. He's
a very proud guy. He did an incredible personation of
Mariners broadcaster Rick Riz imperfect English. That was impressive. He
(31:27):
talked about getting his hit number three thousand with the Marlins,
where he said, at the time, I had never heard
of your team talking to David Samson to the Marlins.
That was pretty funny. But more seriously, he talked about
the greatest responsibility for a player is taking responsibility for yourself.
He said, you owe it to the fans from day
(31:48):
one to day one sixty two two, as he put it,
never put the bats away early. Make sure your equipment
was meticulously cleaned and ready, because you never wanted to
drop a ball because a lace was out of place,
or where your shoe wasn't clean enough. Just the meticulousness,
the attention to detail, and the craftsmanship of eachiro Suzuki
(32:11):
just blew me away.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
It was like listening to, you know, a master woodworker
or a master jeweler talk about his craft and the
materials and the dedication, and nothing was ever too small
to me. That was each ye row and I think
people really got a window into a player who's just
fascinating like we never did before.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, And with all of that said, and you're right
on the money. He got all those hits because he
was impossible to defend. I was in charge of defense
with the Angels at that time when he was very prominent,
and look at the spray charts, it was incredible. He
was the He was the epitome of the line of
the phrase that was that wee Willie Keeler pronounced I
(32:54):
don't know what year it was, but hit him where
they ain't. You could not defend him. I really believe
he came up to home play check things out and
decided what kind of pitch I'm gonna look for or
where I'm going to hit it. You know, almost like
Tony Gwynn almost had that ability to or did have
that ability. So you would go up to the plate
and his feet would be moving, he'd spin out of
control sometimes, but he would always Wow. It was so
(33:19):
maddingly done. I mean, okay, you play the short the
shortstops therea player infield, maybe in bunch him, bunch him
a little bit towards the gap and left center, and
all of a sudden the ball good down the left
field line. Then you play your left fielder more in
and over towards line. Then all of a sudden he
go right over the shortstop's head on the infield. One
thing I thought I noticed was he rarely ever hit
a ball down the line on the ground, So I
(33:39):
always try to get my first and third basement off
and into the hole on both sides, because if he
hit the ball on the left side and the shortstop
pad to pick it up going to his right, he's safe.
He's safe. So you have to have the third basement
cut it off in order to hopefully, you know, get
him out and have him throw him out of first base.
And then if the guy wanted to hit for power,
trust me, he could have. That was not part of
(33:59):
his gig. But once in a while when he wanted
to really catch one. You watch him vp he hit home.
I was like it was nothing. Bogs. He was the
same way Wade Bogs, another guy, great line drive hitter
that knew how to hit the ball the whole field,
so he was impossible to defend. Part of his meticulous preparation,
he'd go up there do that thing with his arm
and stick his arm out and kind of swipe the
with the bat and the other arm would go up
(34:20):
and down his that arm with the bat in his hand,
and he'd look where might hit this ball, and it
was very And then on top of the speed, the
speed was oh my god. And then okay, defense, was
there a better arm at that time in the game,
I don't know. I don't know that there was a
better arm. And then if you talk about Dave Parker,
I'd love to see those two guys throw from right
field in a contest with like maybe Ellis Valentine, Jesse Barfield,
(34:42):
those kind of guys, because that's when arms really were
prolific in the big leagues. That was part of the
scouting culture at that time. You had to have right
fielders with great arms. So all of this stuff fascinating.
He could steal the base. Not a big guy, but god,
he was so difficult to defend. And on defense, nobody better.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, he's he knows the history of the game too.
Joe On like a lot of players, I mean, maybe
as much as anybody. He said he was thrilled when
he first checked into the Otasaga hotel, he met Wade Boggs.
He sounded like a little kid. And you can imagine
how much each year. Probably admired Boggs from Afar with
his ability to put the ball in play. And he
said one of the guys he really looked forward to meeting.
(35:20):
Because now you're remember this fraternity the most exclusive in
baseball was Rod Carw and you can see some similarities
there as well.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, Rodney, Rodney has had that ability to I got
to know Boggs. He really well done in Tampa. I mean,
I just love the guy. He says a He's a
man's man for sure, and he and he and he
used to come in and see me after games in Tampa.
Bay was all jacked up, all happy when we won.
And Rodney and I worked together for several years with
the Angels and I was actually used to throw a
(35:51):
batting practice to him when I was a young coach
with the Inch organization in the eighties. And one thing
about Rod Carw was so difficult as a BP pitcher.
There was certain pitches he would not swing at, and
I mean like I thought they were strike and it
would be like maybe belltie away on the outside edge.
And as when you're throwing batting practice, you want guys
to swing at that stuff. Let's move this thing along,
(36:11):
because it makes you look bad if you're not throwing strikes.
But I swear to you he would never swing at
that one, one particular pitch. And I brought it to
his attention because I threw to him often, just in
a craftsman and when you had that kind of an
angle watching this occur, the way he laid the bat
back and then all of a sudden it pick it
up and the stroke and I mean the hand, the
hands and the hand actual were incredible. Yes, there's so
(36:32):
many similarities. And even I'll throw like I said, Tony
and there Tony Gwyn who's a teammate of mine in Boulder,
Colorado in nineteen eighty just amazing command of the head
of the bat based on they never swung the bat
with their arms so dynamic from their fingertips to their elbows.
All these guys that we're talking about, So listen, I'm
pleased for him. I got to know eachro a little
(36:53):
bit what he did in the game on parallel between
Japan and the United States.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, it's and I can only imagine what it was like,
for you putting those early age hitting charts together for
someone like each hero and to defend him. Good luck
with that. You're right, it did seem like he could
almost steer the baseball, something we always say hitters can't do. Well.
He made it look like he could at least. And
this was either his eighth or ninth trip back to Cooperstown.
(37:17):
I mean he'd gone there seven times as a player.
He would break a record, say George Sissler's hit record,
and he wanted to go to Cooperstown to learn more
about those players he was surpassing. And he really has
a fascination with the artifacts of the game too, almost
there's almost a sacredness to it to each hero. In fact,
(37:38):
he called Cooperstown a baseball sacred land. I love that
line in his speech. He once said, I don't like
to visit places. Out of anywhere in the world, besides
the places I've lived, Cooperstown is the place I've visited most.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
How about that, Well, he knew, he knew, I mean,
that was his goal. Obviously. I don't know if he
actually said that at any point. Growing up, as hell
he running Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Growing up, he didn't even know Cooperstown existed. He didn't
have any idea about MLB until he Dio Nomo came
over in nineteen ninety five, and then he started to
see everybody's carrying Nomo highlights and games, and he was
introduced visually to the game of Major League Baseball and
wanted to keep playing at the highest level. That became
(38:24):
a goal. And it was only once he got here
to the States in two thousand and one that he
heard about this place called Cooperstown and the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Well, you know, bully for him for doing all the
research and then eventually getting because I love the historian
part of it. I don't know that enough young players
today are historians of the game. It's more of a job,
an opportunity, whether it's for riches or accolades, whatever, but
the true historians of the game. When you run into
a kid like that, it's really refreshing, you know, because
(38:53):
we were just our generation and the previous ones grew
up on baseball cards and looking on the back of
them and how dramatically and important those numbers were. You know,
you in my mind's eye right now and you have
the same vision. Is that you turn the card over
from the guy's face and you look on the back
and everything was there. Man, how good he was and
(39:14):
he had the simple numbers really mattered. Been slugging percentages,
on base percentages, all that stuff. I want to know
what his batting average was, how many homers he hit,
you know, singles, doubles, etc. That was what you looked
at stolen bases. It's gotten become obviously a lot more sophisticated,
I guess. But all you needed to do is turn
(39:35):
that card over. Those beautiful baseball cars that came out
a package of ten, maybe five, with that really thin
strip of bubblegum. I could still smell it opening up
the cars, picking him up a third base lunchinet out
of the candy counter. God, there was very few things
that were better in life at that age in the world.
Because that it would love for kids today to be
(39:58):
able to elicit that kind of feeling, a visceral feeling
from just opening this plastic e celophony package of cars
with a piece of gum, and how exciting that was.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Well, it was a great afternoon at Cooperstown, New York
on Sunday, some bittersweetness to it because of Dave Parker
and Dick Allen passing away before they could make it
to this inductions ceremony. And also it acquired another layer
of really sadness when we found out about Ryan Samberg.
We'll take a quick break and talk about the Hall
of Famer, the late Hall of Famer, Ryan Samberg. Welcome
(40:45):
back to the Book of Joe. We received really bad
news early this week, Joe about Ryan Samberg. He was
not doing well. I think that sounded obvious at the
Hall of Fame induction day when there was a moment
of prayer for Ryan Samberg and his battle with metastatic
prostate cancer and he lost that battle. And it's interesting,
(41:05):
Joe that Samberg has thought it was a Hall of
Famer and as obviously as a Cub, just an incredible career.
But I look at Samberg, who was like he was
so instrumental in when the Cubs became like the Cubs
right those magic years in the mid eighties. There the
ninety six win team that came within a game of
going to the World Series. That's when Rigley really started
(41:26):
to fill And I know there were rounds in sixty eight,
sixty nine, but when the Cubs really became this national
brand and selling out games began with those years, and Samberg,
who just arrived on the scene to trade with Philadelphia,
just was this beautiful player to watch playing second base
with fabulous defense, a forty home run season, an MVP season.
(41:50):
He's such a big part of what the Cubs are today.
And Joe, in your years managing the Cubs, I'm sure
you must have come across Ryan Samberg, but you know
better than most what his impact is on the Cubs
franchise and all the people who grew up watching Samberg
who became really deep Cubs fans.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Get out of my golf course. He came to one
of my events here. He actually flew into town just
to play in our golf tournament one time, and it
was just a very big hit throughout. On top of
everything you just stated and it's all obviously true, the
one thing that on my conversation I got to know Rhino,
Ah sweet guy, just an absolute gentleman, very very supportive,
(42:32):
very positive, come to spring trainings. Dress Out loved the
banner between him and Sutcliffe. Sutt would go after him
and Rhino would just in his own little, mild mannered,
sarcastic response I loved every second of it. He was
he turned out to be, you know, developed as a
pretty good friend. You remember, after he was done playing,
he wanted to be a manager. Nobody wanted to give
(42:53):
him an opportunity. They weren't just handing out managerial jobs
to just because you had a resume at that time.
But what did Rhino do? He went back and manage
in the minor leagues? God did that impress.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I felt the same way you think about a guy
with a Hall of Fame baseball career going to the
minor leagues to prove himself. I'm with you on that.
I'm glad you brought that up. That was such to
me a defining portion of the personality and perseverance of
Ryan Zamberg, quite.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Frankly a major league manager. And I hope people take
this the right way. It's kind of insulting when they
just give these jobs to people that have never done
it before. It is I mean, it's almost like you're
actually saying almost anybody can do it because it's kind
of been reduced in a way. It's not so much
about your skill as understanding the game as much as
it is about your skill being able to talk to
the press of being a good face of the organization,
(43:42):
which is absolutely necessary to be part of the job.
When he went back, I talked him about it. I
told him, I said, straight up, I said, Rhino, I
am so. I can't tell how impressed I am with
the fact that you went that back to the minor
leagues to learn your craft some more, because listen, I'm
a dummy, and I know how long it took me
to understand what I eventually understood when I got an opportunity.
(44:02):
I got the opportunity in the night when I was
fifty fifty to fifty one, I think, and I thought
that was just about the right amount of time that
I needed to wait and incubate before I thought I
was actually ready to be a major league manager. I'd
been the interim manager several times with the Angels. I
think I managed I don't know, sixty some games or
seventy games, something like that is interim. During my time
with the Angels, I interviewed several times and was declined
(44:25):
whether it was the Red Sox, the Diamondbacks, and of
course the Angels too in Seattle Mariners. But when I
finally got the job with the Rays, I thought I
was ready to do so based on my years, you know,
riding the bus, beating the bushes just like a short
stop pass to do so. When he went back there, man,
I was so I was so enamored with it and
(44:46):
so respectful of it. And I had to tell him,
and I told him that, I told him exactly all this,
and so bully for him. I'm glad he got that opportunity.
Beyond his wonderful Major League career and the impact he
had on the Cup organization, You're absolutely correct, But beyond that,
the fact that this Hahull of Fame players, the sweet
guy would go back and do what he did in
(45:08):
an effort to become kind of a Hall of Fame
manager too. That to me speaks volumes about him, and
I respect him most of all for that.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
I always love hearing the Hall of Fame's beaches, Joe,
because you really find out the essence of greatness. And
we usually define that as skill or statistics, but you
really do find out what's behind the stories of these guys.
And for instance, listening everybody's got coaches, the high school coaches,
minor league coaches, teachers at school, those are the ones
(45:38):
who paved the way, and it was just as an
example with CC Sabbathia, he had Carl Willis there. Carl
Willis was his first pitching coach, way back when when
he signed as a nineteen twenty year old kid in
the Cleveland system, and as Ceci himself said, I didn't
even know how to grip a four seam fastball. That's
where he was starting from. So everybody had not just
(45:59):
thanking people, but they had reasons why they had Hall
of Fame careers started well before the TV cameras were
on and the stadiums were full, and I always love
hearing that. So it was lessons that to me, Joe,
you can't hear enough about to hear the stories behind
the greatness. We talk a lot on this podcast, you
know about philosophy and what makes a person, you know,
(46:23):
truly respectful, reliable. So it's always been a favorite day
for me on the calendar just to listen to where
these players go. We think that we know them, but
what's in their heart, what truly made them great? They're
always unique stories and I always love hearing them.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Absolutely. Carl the truth Willis. Carl used to put my
picture on the underneath the bill of his hat, because
every time I came in Edmonton, he would pitch, well,
he's such a great guy. Yeah. We talked about in
the Book of Joe often, don't we about the mentors
the mentorships that we had, those that group of men
and women that when we when we look back upon
however we got wherever we're at, we're so influential on
(47:01):
our success. And for me it started with my pop
and my and then eventually, you know, in our book
we talk about coach Bob Root from Lafayette College, you
talk about Bob Clear from the California Angels and others.
So at the end of the day, when you have
those real quiet moments and if you really want to
be introspective and think about, you know, how did I
get here, the same names keep popping up and the
influence that they've had on you is indelible, and you
(47:24):
feel like really fortunate that those people did cross your
paths and were willing to share what they did share
and in the way they did it. Bob Coach Bob
Route was a handholder, very positive guy. I always wanted
to gain his favorite I wanted to hear him say
good job because I knew if I did, if I
met with the acceptance of Coach Bob rut gosh, I
(47:46):
must have done something right. On the other side of us,
bob Aloo, same thing, but Bob Blu's approach you different.
Boblo would come out you a little bit harder man.
And if you didn't, if you did not want to
hear the answer, don't ask the question because you're you're
agatting it straight up, brother, And I want to believe
you know, there's a little bit I got a little
bit of both of those guys in me. Where bab
(48:07):
Aloo it was just so straightforward, He's gonna tell you
the truth. If I tell you the truth, you might
not like me for a week or ten days, but
at least you're not gonna hate me forever. And then
Coach Route was that guy that would tell you the
truth in a way that he didn't want to like,
pin you down or injure your confidence. He would say
it in a way that was he knew what you
could handle and which you couldn't handle. So all these guys,
(48:28):
you know, school teachers, mister fran Libinatti from Hazelton, PA,
who passed away a couple of years ago, the finest
school teacher I've ever been associated with, and I would
actually go visit him at home when I came home
from wherever, I go down his house and his wife
Jackie sit in the living room and we just discussed
things because that's how that's how strongly he influenced my life.
So we all have these mentors in our life, and
(48:51):
they all come at us from different directions. We pull
and peel away from them certain qualities or thoughts or methods,
and so yeah, that would be kind of cool to
hear that from these guys because we could all identify
with those people that influenced our.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Lives life lessons and words of wisdom. I lean on
you every time to end our episodes, Joe with something
along those lines. So this last bit of philosophy, I
turned to you, What do you got to close out
this episode of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I have the word truth. The word truth is in
this in this quote of the day, and my motivation
because I'm always wanting to be transparent. It's like a
lot of the things I read in the papers right now,
where like in today's game, I mean the manager's role
of the manager I'm just I'm guilty of it in
a lot of ways. Where I said, do you praise
publicly and criticize privately, but they also have to be
pragmatic and honest in a certain way. And when you
(49:40):
don't do that, I mean you can lose favor in
a sense or credibility because of that. So that was
part of my motivation. And then we're talking about, you
know this truth tellers and how important it is to us.
So I don't know this was exactly germane, but this
is something that I really because of reading the newspapers
and because of the first reason I gave this kind
of steered me to this direction, which I love this quote.
(50:02):
I can't remember the book that I read it in,
but I had it. It's on the tip of my
brain all the time because I think it's apropos And again,
just call it down a little bit to try to
understand where I'm coming from. But the leaders of the
Soviet Union had a dangerous tendency to deny the truth
of bad news, and so I love truth Tellers. Is
(50:23):
literally what it comes down to. And when you conflate
the truth and all of a sudden try to make
it exactly talk when you've tried to distill it to
the point where it works in your favor, and you
try to convince others that it is accurate or true,
even though it's not that bothers me. It obviously bothered
me, and I recognize it very quickly. And it might have
been a Clancy book. It could have been I'm not sure.
(50:44):
It could have also been Eric Larson. I'm not sure.
But the leaders of the Soviet Union had a dangerous
tendency to deny the truth of bad news. And that's
not a good thing. So truth tellers are very important
in our society and to me. And if you want,
you know, see the best side of me, and you
want a friend forever, just tell me the truth.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
You're Jack Ryan's side.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, right, that's it is exactly it don't after the
game RV would walk in, Rick Vaughan, we'd have some
situation would pop up, and this is how we're going
to approach this, I said, r we were going Jack
Ryan tonight not only was one of my one of
my friends, he's one of my best friends. And when
you when you run towards it, it disarms it very quickly.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Great advice Joe, We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe, see your brother, thank you. The Book
of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(51:42):
wherever you get your podcasts.
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