The Book of Joe: The Dodgers win the World Series!

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci celebrate the Dodgers winning another World Championship.  We explore the turning points of the series and what decisions could've been made differently by the managers.  Tom takes us through the pivotal inning in Game 5 to show what ultimately led to the Dodgers winning.  Both teams now look forward and start asking questions about changes for next season!

The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

#fsr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there, and welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
World Series Wrap Up edition. Of course, It's me Tom
Verducci with Joe Madden and congratulations to the twenty twenty

(00:26):
four World champion Los Angeles Dodgers and Joe. I'm not
sure if I've seen a clinching game quite like that one. Well,
I know I haven't, because that's the first time somebody
came from five runs down to clinch the World Series.
But more than that, I think I just watched in
the fifth inning, the ugliest inning in World Series history, where.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
That game was decided.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Your quick takeaways from what we saw at a Game
five of the World Series.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Tenacity from the Dodgers is really what stands out to me.
The mistakes. The mistakes were nothing new. I mean, mistakes
have been made. The Yankees fundamentally have really not been
a good ball club. They've been able to play out
of a tough lie. They play out of the rough
really well because they make a mistake and hit a
home run. So none of that really was a surprise,

(01:17):
I would impress me. It was a tenacity of the
Dodgers I watched them. I watch them the doug out,
I dot David did a great job, Roberts with everything
that he did, even right down to the fact that
he left trying it in there for a couple more
hitters where I think most of the time he would
have been out of that game. I liked that move
a lot of watching their players. Damn, I mean, they're
they're never out of it. And again, it's just a

(01:39):
tenacious approach that they had. The Yankees grabbed it for
a moment and then they gave it up. They gave
it up defensively. They gave it up by not covering
first base. And it's it's not Rizzo's fault. I mean,
riz likes to flip the ball, but more than anything,
Cole never got over there. So don't don't start like
pushing this whole thing around. You got to get Did

(02:01):
you see when trying and covered for it? Was it
trying that covered first?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
I mean he busted his butt over there. Man, that
was beautiful. So you can't equivocate here. It's just that
they did not play well. They bludging well, and that
the Dodgers played more of a complete game of baseball
and I you know, when you look at it, we
talked about this before this all started. I think the
better team won. So that's it. That's my takeaway from it.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, listen, we're going to get into that fifth inning
and why some of those mistakes were made. But I
want to piggyback on something you said about how tenacious
the Los Angeles Dodgers were, and Dave Roberts deserves a
ton of credit because this is a different Dodgers team, right.
He had challenged them in the middle of September when
they lost about nine out of sixteen, weren't playing well,

(02:47):
Diamondbacks were charging, padres were charging, and they were just
starting to get healthy. But it was the one time
he did have a team meeting where he challenged his
team and they responded, and you're right, Joe, the quality
are at.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Bats just the way they played baseball.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
What Da've t told me was they acquired this street
fighters personality that he said his other teams did not have.
And he actually told me that going back to twenty
seventeen World Series Game seven, when the Houston Astros hung
four on the Dodgers early in the game, he said
that was pretty much it for us. That group would

(03:23):
not have won the game last night, the five to
nothing deficit in the fifth inning. So the tenacity of
the Dodgers, they deserve all the credit in the world.
This team fought you tooth and nail, pitch to pitch
first inning to ninth inning. In terms of the bullpen
guys running out there, you are other point, Joe, I
want to follow up on, and this speaks to the

(03:43):
heart of managing.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
And you called this.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I mean, Dave had a tight rope to walk in
a game where he really had only six quality relievers
he wanted to use, but his starting pitchers out in
the second inning, so he's starting to run out of
pitchers early. And you mentioned Blake Trinon. He's on the mound.
You know Blake has been used a lot.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
We know that in the postseason.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
And if you remember the situation Joe, Blake trying's in
the game here and I think it was the Anthony
Rizzo at Bet. You know, the Yankees are starting to
come back, a couple of runners on Dave. Actually it's
standing at Bet. First, Dave goes out to the mound
and he's got Daniel Hudson, who pitched the day before

(04:24):
and it's pretty much gassed. And he's got Walker Buehler
who's got one day of rest after he started in
won game three, so he's got to go check on
trying to with Stanting at the plate. Two runners on base,
and Dave makes the mound visit and I love what
he did, Joe. I'm sure you have done this. When
you're going out to see your pitcher and you don't

(04:45):
want to take him out of the game, you send
a signal early as you're leaving the dugout that you're
not taking this guy out. You don't want him to
let his guard down, thinking, oh, I'm out of the game.
He gave a hand signal right way and walk quickly
so trying to know this was a meeting about strategy
or he was staying in the game. Dave Roberts actually
put his hand on trying in his chest and looked

(05:05):
him in the eye. He wanted to feel his heartbeat,
literally feel his heartbeat, and he wanted to look in
his eye, and he wanted to hear the conviction in
trying his voice and trying and told him I want Stanton.
I've got this, and Dave turned around, went back in
the dugout and he got Stanton first pitch on a sinker,
popped him up to right field. Now there's two outs,

(05:27):
and Dave is thinking, well, now maybe I'm gonna go
get Hudson on Rizzo here and he looked across the
field and I love this moment in the game, Joe.
He saw Freddie Freeman, the veteran first baseman, and Freddy
caught his eyes and Freddy gave him the hand signal
of both hands pushing down to the game, basically saying,
stand down, Doc, he's got this.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
The body language of Freddie.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Freeman convinced Dave Roberts to leave trying it in the game.
And before that, it was the body language and the
voice of trying to where Dave left him in the
game for that one and trying to had it unbelievable
stuff was probably better than there was all night and
strikes out of Anthony Rizzo. How about those two sequences, Joe,
you talk about managing the big moment and now having

(06:11):
a binder next to you, but literally feeling the heartbeat
of a pitcher and trusting your veteran first baseman that
our guys got this.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, I thought I thought he went totally off script
at that moment, and I did love that too, you know,
trying to me he's up in a more than pitching
three but three out of four whatever that was, or
for he had forty right around forty pitches.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
That was my bigger concern.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
I would think he's not used to throwing that many
pitches in a relief role.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
And then normally I've always been.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Concerned when my one inning guys get to high numbers,
Normally bad things happen.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
I like putting hand on chest. I've done that myself.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
I get that, and there wasn't a whole lot of
alternatives left. However, regardless of all that, Hudson was not
a good option right there. If I was him watching
Hudson pitch, I just stayed away from that myself, even
from a couple hundred miles away. I'm sitting in Pennsylvania.
I've seen that. And then he knew how much time
Buehler had left in the tank, or how much you
have in the tank. So I'm saying, basically, it wasn't

(07:11):
that tough of a decision. If he goes out there
and trying and says, listen, I am gassed, man, I've
got a little bit tight.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Something like that. Then you just pointed the bullpen.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
But the way he reaffirmed it, and then Freddie doing
what he did, I like that too. That would come
from like a David Ross in that situation whatever. So
there's no way after he gets standing on one pitch
on top of that, now it was like an eight
pitch at bat versus Stanton again, things mindu flipped the
script Minu flip. I couldn't believe he swinged at that
first pitch, which was really I mean, he's probably thinking

(07:42):
right field home run possibly, but that was like that
made it way too easy on trying and.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
The whole group right there.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
So a lot of things conspired in the moment. I
loved what he did. I loved off script. I've always
love off script. And you have to react to what
you're seeing and feeling and believing in your experience. So
although those things came to play in that particular moment.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Now let's talk about Walker, because again this guy through
seventy seven pitches Game three of the World Series, he's
got one day off. Remember Walker Bueller missed almost two
full seasons after a second Tommy John surgery. There was
a point in this season where the Dodgers, I'm talking
late in the season August, the Dodgers weren't sure this

(08:22):
guy even should be on their postseason roster. He had
been that bad. But he's a big game pitcher. They've
seen it before. And as the Dodgers are boarding their
buses to go to Yankee Stadium for Game five, Walker
Buehler gets on the bus and he says to Andrew Friedman,
the president of baseball Operations, and Brandon Gomes, the general manager,

(08:43):
Hey listen, if this game tonight gets a little wonky,
I'm good to go.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
And Andrew Friedman rolls his eyes and like, yeah right.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Walker, Andrew's thinking, you know what, We've got a locked
and loaded, fully rested bullpen. We pretty much punted Game
four with our high leverage guys because we want them
all on deck and rested, so we're in great shape.
Pokers are a game seventh starter if we ever get there.
But hey, thanks for offering Walker. Well fast forward. Jack
Flaherty's out of the game of the second inning, the

(09:12):
bullpen carousel starts way too early. At about the sixth inning,
Walker Bler walks into the clubhouse and Andrew Friedman's in there,
and Walker says to him, is this the definition of wonky?
And Mandrew Friedman says, heck yeah. Is now Walker Buehler's
in play. Now you're only going to get one inning
out of him. You want to try to use him

(09:32):
when you've got a lead. And at seventh inning, Walker
goes into the dugout with his jacket on and he
says to Dave Roberts, I'm going to the bullpen.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I'm there when you need me. I mean, think about that, Joe.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
He's a free agent to be after two Tommy John surgers,
I'm on the Yankee side. The Game three starter for
the New York Yankees was Clark Schmidt. Nothing against Clark Schmidt.
He was in the dugout the whole night with a
jacket on and sneakers. Who's not in the bullpen? Walker Buehler,
volunteering after two Tommy John surgeries, looking at free agency

(10:04):
to go to the bullpen to try to win this game.
So then Mark Pryor calls down and figures out, well,
I guess Walker's in play here.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
He calls out of the bullpen.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
He says, Walker, how do you feel did you throw,
and Walker says, yeah, I feel good.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I threw.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
He didn't throw, he lied. He just wanted his pitching
coach to know that he wanted into this game. And
as it turned out, they did need Walker Bueller.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
He saved them. He literally saved the game.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
And he's throwing ninety seven in the last inning, goes one, two,
three in the ninth. I think it's such a beautiful thing, Joe,
and it really it speaks to who these Dodgers are,
that these guys where they's trying and doing you know,
three updowns there and you know, at the age of
what is he thirty six thirty seven Walker Bueller trying
and by the way, also a free agent being extended
like that. I mean, that's a culture that Dodgers have

(10:51):
that goes beyond Bueller and trying it and some of
these guys that I have to give Dave Roberts a
lot of credit for because it was you talk about
all hands on deck, willing to do anything.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's the la Dodgers.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
And it's also anti analytics, right, I mean, the fact
that all the planning that had been done up to
that point was put on the back burner or no
burner whatsoever, with the one of the starters saying he
could do this, I want to do this. Changes being
made from the bus to the locker room to a
tuning extent to the locker room, to the bullpen to
a phone call.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
I love that stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
I love the fact that it was all put in
play in the moment in a very human way, was
just pieced together based on what I'm seeing, what's needed
right here, right now. There's not one equation anywhere that
thought of that moment in advance said this is a possibility.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
It was just reacting to the moment. And they did
and they win. That's what I love about that. And
I don't know Walker Bueler. And the other thing is,
you know the fact that he's a free agent next year,
and that, like with CEC's about you. He did a
couple of years ago with Milwaukee when he just carried
them for a bit. Wasn't that a he pitched so
much and got them through it in September or October?

(12:04):
And then if Trina is also at that age free
agent wise, that's that's the level five guy, right.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
All I want to do is win.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
We've talked about that five levels of being a professional.
I'm saying a baseball player happy to be here, survival.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
I like this.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
I want to stay here. At level three, my belonger,
I can do this. Level four, I want to make
as much money as I possibly can.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
And level five, all I want to do is win.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Look around the Dodger team on the field, I'm saying
you could probably say the same thing about the Yankees,
but the Dodgers really personified all I want to do
is win. Everybody on that team, everybody in that dugout.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
They're all level five guys. And that's that's what you saw.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
You saw the epitome of level five, where personal agendas
cast aside. It was about the moment. It's about us.
It's about, like you suggested, what David went through with
the more gritty version of the Dodgers, more probably more
reminiscent of a Brooklyn Dodger than a more recent La Dodger.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
All good stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
And it happens that the Brooklyn Dodgers beat the Yankees
in New York. Again, that's kind of cool. So there's
a lot of stuff you could wrap your mind around
with this, But more than anything, I love the tenacity
of how they played, and it was the anti Dodger,
more recent Dodger that we saw more reminiscent like the
eighties when Mickey was there in that particular group, so

(13:23):
that group was kind of gritty. Also, this group kind
of reminisced that.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, well said, and listen, we're gonna take a quick
break here we get back. We're going to talk about
that fifth inning, because yes, the Yankees made mistakes, and
we'll get into the reasons why, but we'll also give
credit to the Los Angeles Dodgers to create and to
take advantage of those mistakes. The inning that swung Game
five of the World Series. We'll dive into that next.

(13:59):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Game five,
Inning five. That's an inning that will live in infamy
as far as Yankees World Series history. They had Garrett
Cole on the mound throwing a no hitter, and they'd
hit home runs from their two three four hitters and
or three four to five hitters in their lineup.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
In a five to nothing lead, it's a game you
cannot lose.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
But after thirty eight pitches, almost twenty minutes in that inning,
the game was tied. Let's jump into it starting with
key Y Hernandez. Joe, you talk about a level five player.
He's such a smart player. He started it, gets a
base hit, gets a ninety six mile an hour fastball,
punches it up the middle. I thought his swing throughout
this series was really impressive, really flattened it out.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Hit a bunch of line drives all over the field.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
I don't think I saw key k who can get
big sometimes, I didn't see him get big the entire season.
Now he's on base, and next you got Tommy Edmond
who hits a routine kind of humpback soft liner, shallow
fly ball to center field. This is amazing to me, Joe,
that Aaron Judge did not make an error the entire season.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
It's as routine as it gets.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
The ball is in front of him, so there's no
way kick a Hernandez is going anywhere from first base.
But if you watch Aaron Judge on the replay, as
the glove goes in front of his face, he turns
his eyes toward the runner. Why he does that, I
have no idea, but taking his eye off the ball,
which is obviously what all of us have heard since

(15:30):
Little League, causes him to drop the baseball.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I mean, what is he doing checking the runner there?

Speaker 4 (15:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
I mean I saw it too. It's just like wow,
it's unconsfortable. I mean, he makes great catch, he's making
good better at batch. Everything he was working in his favor.
The team's doing really well because it's told on to
that five points in that INNY we just keep that
anything close to that, even if they give up one run.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Who cares two runs maybe, But I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
I mean, that's like he's too good for that. He's
absolutely too good for that. He's gonna man, I'll tell
you what all winter that's gonna beat him up. That
that play is gonna beat him up right there. This
guy handles himself as well as any professional athlete I've
ever been around. The way he handles being the captain
of the New York Yankees to me is like textbook.
You should, uh, that's a great Netflix show. Just follow

(16:20):
him around and and this is what a captain on
in a professional organization team should look like, act like,
talk like whatever, like work like. So for it to
be hung on him right there in that moment, that's
that's almost like so unfair for all the good that
he does. But there's there's no there's no other way
to he missed it. He missed it. He's gonna say

(16:40):
it was his fault. He's gonna wear it. He's gonna
he's gonna wear it a lot man. And there's just
no other reason.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
You're right. I saw the eyes move, and again there's
no real reason to do that, but the eyes moved.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Okay, so now it's first and second and they hear
your Garrett call.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
You want to pick up you're center fielder who's already
feeling badly about it. He gets a ground ball from
Will Smith to the right of Anti Volpi, the shortstop.
Obviously his play is the third that's where the ball
is taking him does the right thing. What it's lost
here is the base running of Key k Hernandez. He
did an amazing job. He's a high baseball IQ guy.

(17:13):
You saw him alter his path to get in the
way or at least compromise the throw of Anthony Volpi
from shortstop to third base, and Volpi spiked the baseball.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Go back and look at it.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
You'll see the way Kei k Hernandez kind of banana
out there with his line to create trouble and chaos,
and he did and forced a bad throw. Now they
got the bases loaded. Great base running. I know it
was not a good throw by volpi Uh And as
someone from the Dodgers pointed out to me, Joe, how
many times have you watched from high school up through

(17:46):
the minor leagues teams take in field. How many times
have you seen a team actually practice the six '
five throw?

Speaker 2 (17:54):
They don't.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
It's a play in baseball, it's not practiced, and in
this case it wasn't executed.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I'm betting, if I had a bet, when the Yankes
do there like a morning this year, they're going to
really talk about next spring training. Obviously a lot because
all this stuff, regardless if it comes from social media
or ascribe or you know whatever, they they know we're
horrible at this base running. The point is, I know
this the kicking Hernandez did that. Dodger's side Yankees multiple

(18:20):
problems on the basis these are the kind of things
you have to clean up. I'm betting that the Yankees
have an actual new base running instructor in spring training.
I'm just speaking from experience right here. The most for me,
the most important thing we did in spring training in
my instructional leagues in the nineteen eighties and early nineties,
and then when it became either manager wherever it was,
the first thing I wanted was base running. One thing

(18:41):
I learned early on that you whatever you really want
to emphasize, do at the beginning of practice, not at
the end of practice.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
The fresher mind.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
If you're doing it early, it means that we think
it's important. So I would have moving warm ups on
the basis instead of just stretching and doing the things
that they do on a separate field. I would have
guys warm up on the bases with their trainer, the
a train or whatever. But you would do things on
the basis, including secondary leads, reading balls in the dirt,
going first, a third, second to home, emphasizing cuts, hitting

(19:12):
the inside part of the bag is to painted orange.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
The more you talk about.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
It at the beginning of a practice, the better chance
you have if it happening.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
So they came up badly with that.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
And among all those different things is when there is
a throw coming, yes, always get in the line. Picked
off at first base, you running the second base, try
to get in the line where you think the throw
is coming from. Just like that happened right there, coming
from second.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
To third base.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Of course he knows where the short stop is, he's
going to bow out a little bit more. These are
the kind of things that they have to bear down
on where I just too many teams today really concern
themselves with pitchers spinning base balls and players hitting balls
far and the nuance of the game, which I've talked
about with you, it's not taught with the alacrity, the integrity,
the depth that it's been taught within the past. It's

(20:04):
not considered as important. But I'm here to tell you,
I'm I would like to believe that the Yankees are
going to be a little bit more concerned with all
of that. Yeah, hit home runs, yeah, throw spinning fastballs,
yeah yeah, yeah, But we got to do these other
things because it really shows up this time of the
year where the Dodgers played a better game.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Of baseball than the Yankees did and they got the crown.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
All good points.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Let me put aside for a second my thoughts on
the Yankees. Okay, finished this inning here, because now we've
got the bases loaded, nobody out, and you've got Gavin
Lux at the plate.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Garrett Cole reaches back like great pitchers do.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
He strikes out Gavin Lucks, doubling up on ninety nine
mile an hour fastballs, his best velocity of the night
at that point.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Super impressive. Sho Hey.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Otani is next, and if you watched Otani swing ever since,
he sub lets his shoulder, not the same guy, not
even close. I know he hit some quote unquote deep
fly balls, he had pitches to hit and hit him,
and he also chased a lot completely different hitter once
he sublects the shoulder. If I'm the Dodgers, I really
have to look at what's going on with that shoulder.

(21:13):
I mean, that's an issue for me going forward. I'm
not saying it's something major. I'm saying that's an issue.
He was not right in the postseason, and once you
sublects a shoulder like that, it's susceptible to more and
each time you do it, it's more unstable.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
So keep your eye on that going forward.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Hopefully, of course he's okay, but he strikes out on
a nasty curveball from Garrett Cole.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
So Garrett Cole base is loaded.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Nobody out gets two punch outs with some of the
best stuff that you're ever going to see in the
biggest spot. Then Mookie Betts comes up hits a ground
ball to first base. Off the end of the bat,
you look like you're out of the inning if you're
Garrett Cole. Now that ball is spinning on its way
to first base, So Anthony Rizzo cannot charge that baseball.

(21:58):
His job is to secure that baseball, which is spinning
every which way. You do not charge a ball that
is spinning like that because it's unpredictable. You have to
be very careful secure the baseball. Did the right thing
secured it. Garrett Cole took a couple of steps off
the mound just instinctively as the ball goes by him.
He really didn't have a chance to field it, but

(22:19):
he starts moving towards first base and then stops and
he just assumes that Anthony Rizzo is going to get
the out at first base. Obviously a poor decision. Here's
what I think happened, Joe Garrett Cole was out there
a long time on the mountain. He's reaching back for
everything that he's got. It was a grind throughout that inning.

(22:40):
I saw on his face, an on field level mental
exhaustion and his gears just were not working at the
time where he needed to complete a baseball play.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Instincts didn't take over.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
There was a little bit of relief that I've got
a ground ball, here's my third out, and just the
mental fatigue of working that inning had him. His defenses
were in terms of reacting to the speed of the
play in real time.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
It's a mistake. He's going to regret.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Like you said with Amon Judge all winter long, it's
not on Anthony Rizzo. That is Garrett Cole's job. For
the moment you pick up a ball as a pitcher,
you do pfps, get over and cover the bag.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
He didn't do it.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, and I'm going to point something out here. I
had David Price do the same thing in a playoff game.
You're talking about Garrett Cole. And this is not an
indictment necessarily, it's just something from a coaching perspective. As
these guys grow up, they're the best pictures on the
team in high school, college, professionally, in the minor leagues, whatever,
and another major league team, they're the ace. Your aces
got to set the example.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Whenever you're doing drills in spring training.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Everything you said is probably accurate and true, but that's.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
Still not a good enough excuse when you.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Build that wrote experience in your head that when balls
at the right side and the catcher should.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Be on screaming, get over, get over.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
I mean, I'm hopefill California, Central California is a scrummy
little catcher every time the ball was hit to the
right side, every time, not once in a while.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Get over.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
You start screaming that out loud, so you remind your
picture to get over to first base. I'm not sure
what happened last night pretty loud.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
I get that.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
But I'm telling you, man, when you got to make
your stars do the same thing that your non stars
do quite frankly and again, and I'm just pointing this out.
It's just a coaching point or perspective. So make sure
when you're running, because that bothers me.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Man.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
I love when my best pictures are the better pictures
are the ones that really take PfP seriously and make
sure that it's done properly and right.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
So that's it.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
I mean, you're probably right, he got the ground ball.
I thought in he was over. It didn't really process
the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
But Nevertheless, you are taught to do that.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
As a catcher, you're always taught to backup first base
on a routine ground ball to shortstop when you can
leave home played area. There's no run around second base,
for example. There's certain things that you are indoctrinated with.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Even playing catch on the line at El Centro back
in the day.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
I'm talking nineteen seventy, you're playing catch as a catcher
with another catcher and there's like Del Crando or Larry
Hims walking up behind you up and down the line.
When you see the ball and as you take it
out of your glove, if you don't take it out
of your glove right and find this seems right, somebody
says something to you, this is the kind of stuff
I'm talking about. You talk about fundamentals, and they are

(25:25):
so important, and they are the little things, and the
biggest part are are is the little things, and these
are the things that you have to really grind on
in camp, and you have to get your guys to
buy your real guys to buy into so that moments
like this don't occur. So again, not you're probably right
regarding what happened with Cole just as a coaching moment
right here for me. Make sure that your best guys

(25:47):
do it right in practice.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Just to be clear, Joe, one hundred percent agree with you.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
By no means am I giving Garrett Cole an excuse
or an out here. He's got to get over as
simple as that. There is no excuse for not covering
first base. What I'm trying to do is give people
an insight on what was going on out there on
the mound and how he let his guard down.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Shouldn't happen? Did happen? And then you saw him.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
I mean it was almost painful for me watching him,
to be honest with you, Joe, as this inning went
on and on and on, and he's out there for
thirty eight pitches in almost twenty minutes. In a pitch
clock era where you can't stop the game, the game
keeps going faster. He did everything he could. He's pawing
at the dirt, he was throwing balls out of play.
He's trying to gather himself really physically as much as mentally,

(26:34):
to get through this inning.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Freddie Freeman gets him for a two run single to
Oscar Hernandez doubles off the wall. Game is tied, and
it was tough to watch Garrett Cole. He invested so
much in getting the two strikeouts on Lux and Otani,
and then it was a backbreaker when he didn't cover
first base and you saw him kind of wither throughout

(26:56):
that inning. It felt bad for him. I was surprised
the pitching coach didn't go out there. I thought he
really needed a blow. I'm telling you, Joe, I've seen
this time and time again in the pitch clock era,
when you get these long innings and long at bats
and you're in the stretch, batter after batter after batter,
innings get away. The one and two run inning becomes

(27:17):
a five running And that's what happened to Garrett Cole.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
No question, And you're one hundred percent right. I mean,
what happens in these moments. It's not a physical thing.
He is tired, I get it. But it's a mental thing. Man,
When you bust it so hard, he's out of the inning.
If he does PfP one oh one covers first space
right there against Muokie, he's out of the inning and
they're pumping fists and everybody's happy. He's picked up his guys,

(27:40):
which a real ace does, and he did, he really did.
He kind of like let the the Dodger cat out
of the bag just by not getting over there.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
That's it. Just get over there.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
And I'd really like to know if the catcher was
yellow that or not. I mean, these are the things
that you get to camp and you know people players.
You have to as a coach, you have to be
prepared to have tough conversations.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
And when they say the game has.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Changed, I don't understand that the game has not changed.
It's still ninety feet sixty feet six inches. Defenses are
pretty much still the same three outs. When you come
up to bat, it's nine innings, blah blah blah. Which
changed is a couple rules. But what has changed, possibly only,
is the fact that you're not teaching everything that you
had been teaching in the past. You think that more

(28:25):
some things are more important or pertinent now, and you
emphasize those. That's what's changed, not the game. The emphasis
of what we want to teach and how has changed,
but not the game. And that's where I think people
get confused. I'm all for teaching the picture to spend them. Absolutely,
you want to spend them where you definitely understand how
the four seam rover the two seam and how impactful

(28:47):
that can be. Absolutely really, Louis reven is a player
from Venezuela. That and I don't even know that you're
in Boise. I got them out for early work. Actually
it was post work after a game, big strong guy
that could not get the ball in the air, and
that's I finally had enough of that, so I bring
Louise out.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
I just don't to beat people. Boom boom, and I says,
I want the ball over the wall in left field. Period.
It's been going on. It's nothing new.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
All this stuff that everybody's emphasizing or talking about, like right,
it's nothing new. What is new is we're not emphasizing
the more fundamental components of the game while we're trying
to bring some new tech into the game. That to
me was where everybody's missing. Not everybody, some teams are
missing the point.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
All right.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
I thought I got to give Garrett Cole credit too,
because as exhausted as he was in that fifth inning,
that dude got it together.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
He somehow found a second and third win.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I watched him after he got off the mound after
he got through the sixth inning and he's zoomed right
by Aaron Boone. Boone followed him down. Boone had two
relievers up in his bullpen at that time. He was
ready to take Garrett Cole out of the game. Well
after Boone chased after Garrett Cole, he was back.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
I want to tell you, it wasn't even a minute.
He was back.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Clearly, Garrett Cole said, I'm not coming out of this game.
So he goes back out there the seventh and he
goes boom boom, gets Otanian Betts, then he walks Freddy Freeman,
and you've got to take him out of the game
at that point, right, I'm not having him throw another
pitch out of the stretch. He's not going to I'm
not going to ask him to pitch out of another jam.
That late in the game, Clay Holmes comes into the game.

(30:18):
Holmes pitched like every day in this series. Now you're
going to see the attrition factor show up for the
Yankees in their bullpen and the fact that they didn't
care too much about exposing their best relievers on the
Dodger hitters.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
The Dodgers are very aware of that.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think They're almost hyper sensitive to the fact that
they don't want to show relievers on the same hitter
in the course of a series. They almost go out
of their way to do it. Yankees don't care. They
did against the Guardians, they were doing against the Dodgers.
So Holmes pitched a lot, so he can't go back
out after The Yankees now have a lead again in
the eighth inning, So Aaron Boone goes to Tommy Kainlee.

(30:54):
I'm not sure what is the options were, Joe, but
it's the bottom of the order. Kinley's coming in. We
know this guy's throwing ninety nine percent change ups, right, Well,
the Dodgers have seen too much of a one trick
pony in a postseason. That's the way I looked at it.
So once again, who leads off Keith a Hernandez once
again flat level stroke, takes it the other way. Base

(31:15):
hit to start the inning, not looking to get big
Tommy Edmund ground ball, base hit infield, base hit first
and second, And this I couldn't believe. Will Smith gets
up there, Canley walks him on four pitches.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I mean, you've got the bases.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Loaded now, and now Boone's got to bring in Luke Weaver,
his closer, who has never pitched three days in his life,
at least not a major league level. He's gassed, and
you've got Gavin Lux at the plate. And this was
a huge point in the game Joe, not only because
he hits a sack fly to tie it, but he
hit so deep to center field.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
He also moved the runner from second to third.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
That ninety feet was enormous because you know, after Otani
gets on the catcher's interference, which really wasn't a big factor.
Mookie Betts hits a sacrifice fly. So two sacrifice flies,
including one that moved up the run around third, but
the run around second, So the Dodgers scored two runs
on outs. Just great execution starting with the key k

(32:12):
going the other way. Uh one good at bad after another,
getting the tying and clinching runs in the.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
World Series on sacrifice flies. That was so cool to watch.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Good at BET's no question pay attention to attrition. You
pay attention to attrition by having better starting pitching and
let them pitch.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
I mean, I don't.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
I mean you talk about the you have to have
a pretty good bullpen, do not have to match to
prevent matching up on a nightly basis, you have to
have like a lot of even.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Or ahead guys.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Okay, backtracking when this when the scores in your favor,
you're always gonna go with the even or ahead guys.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
So that if you are behind any.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Game, yeah you could, you could then start matching up
your pitchers to the other team hitters.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
You're not as concerned.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
I mean, you're trying to keep a small deficit, but
if it doesn't happen, then you are saving your pitchers
for the next night in a better game.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
So there's all these different things going on.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
So with the Yankees not paying attention, that just means
the depth of their bullpen isn't as great as the
depth of the Dodgers bullpen because they have to put
their better guys on the Dodgers better hitters. They just
they can't put the guys in there that they don't
have the same kind of level of confidence in where
the Dodgers have more people like that. That's the thing
where you have bullpen games, where the ability to have
successful bullpen games you have to have a lot of

(33:26):
even or ahead guys on that team. And I'm here
to tell you man, that's not easy to do. And
one number two and you brought it up respect ninety feet, right,
that's the name of my foundation, respect ninety A good
at bat to me has always been when by the
time you get back at least they're running moved up
ninety feet. I've always always paid attention to that because
that in and of itself permits something else on a

(33:48):
smaller scale that happen that's going to benefit us.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
That's where strikeouts are just.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
Viewed as another out. I don't see it all that
that way. They talk about, you know, guys hitting forty
home runs but have six hundred and fifty played appearances,
what do they do with their other six hundred and
ten played appearances. You just accept strikeouts blindly in that
the fact that home runs are the only thing that matter.
Nothing else does. We're just talking about Kick Hernandez conceding

(34:13):
with a different swing, getting on base, starting innings, and
here we go. So it just really shows up in
the postseason where this stuff occurs, and it seems to
be highlighted and more important when in the regular season
he gets lost in the July seventh and Noise of
the baseball season, where guys are still more concerned, possibly
about themselves and not so much about the team. I

(34:34):
gotta go on and on about this subject, as you know,
because we talk about it all the time. But that's
all I'm unpacking everything you just talked about, things that
I believe in that can be You could have it
both ways. You have it both ways. You could have
everything you want we just talked about.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
But you have to be.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Paints takenly taught. It's all about spring training. During the
course of the season, you have to readdress these things.
You just don't talk about stuff in camp and then
don't readdress during the season.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
I mean on the field.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
I mean like little many gatherings with the group on
the field at different times to review things that you
know might go stale from the Tommy did them in
camp to the time they're actually due to during the season.
All these things have to be discussed. Maybe they do this,
I don't know, but for the most part I would.
That's why I have approachings in order to prevent things
that used to be in the front of your mind

(35:23):
going to the back of your mind to becoming dormant.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
So here's the bottom line. On the twenty twenty four
World Series. The better team won, agreed, And I'm saying
that because if you picked up a stat sheet, you
would see the New York Yankees out hit the LA Dodgers.
They outpitched the LA Dodge all the numbers when you
looked at you add them up.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
It looked like the Dodgers were outplayed by the Yankees.
But if you actually watched.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
The game, the actual playing and the execution of fundamental baseball,
the Dodgers wipe the Yankees off the field.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
It was a mismatch.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
And I can tell you personally that before this series began,
that's where the Dodgers knew they had the huge edge
in this series. What the Yankees did was nothing unusual.
It wasn't like they got exposed in the World Series.
This is who they are. They're not a good fundamental team,
base running, defense, sometimes swing decisions. It got exposed, yes,

(36:20):
in this series, because the Dodgers are a really good team.
They're not going to allow you to give you extra
outs the way the Yankees kept doing. And that is
the story of this series. One team played far better baseball.
I don't care what the stats say, but watching the
teams play it was obvious which one played the better series.
So Joe, we're gonna take a quick break here, and

(36:41):
I want to get your thoughts going forward here on
what's ahead for the Yankees and the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Will they be back in the World Series next year?
What needs to be fixed, what needs to be the same.
We'll talk about that right after this. Well, Joe, you talked.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
About this with the Yankees, I think, and I want
to get your take here going forward with the Yankees,
because they do have some systemic problems that to me,
it's not about the manager.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Everybody likes to complain about the manager, right.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
It's about the roster construction, the type of ballplayer the
New York Yankees have. They don't have a lot of
smart baseball players. They don't play necessarily clean baseball. And
yes they hit home runs, and you play poor teams,
you can overcome mistakes with home runs, but not when
you're playing in.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
The World Series.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
So if you're the Yankees, how are you going to
address this issue of needing to play cleaner baseball to
be a championship team?

Speaker 3 (37:45):
You set the tone in camp Man's well, first of all,
it's going to be in the offseason Acquisitionally speaking, I
guess liber is a free agent.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
He's a free agent. I would not expect him back.
I expect, of course, I Chisholm to move over the
second base. He's not a third baseman. He doesn't have
a third baseman's arm. I think it's a better natural
position for him. I think a big deal. I don't
know how you feel, Joe. I'd love to get your take.
Aaron Judge should not be playing center field, agreed. And
now I'm not saying that because he dropped that one
ball in the World Series. You're asking way too much

(38:15):
of a thirty two year old guy who weighs two
hundred and eighty two pounds who's gonna hit fifty eight
home runs. For you to be patrolling center field, it
makes no sense.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
No agreed. Agreed.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
I mean, even when they acquired Chisholm and Glabert did
not want to move to third base. I thought that
was wrong. I mean, put the more athletic guys at
second base. I've seen and listen, I love gliber Trust.
People got to know this way the nicest kids you're
ever going to meet in your life. He offensively helped
them so much hitting leadoff, which would never have expected
to have worked, but it did.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
But athletically he's.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Just a little bit slower, he's a little bit thicker
in the bottom half. Go to third base and play
third base. I let the more athletic guy be up
the middle. So I thought at the beginning that was
that should have been differently handled. So that's one of
the moves going to take care of itself because Glibrary
will not be back, and I agree with that. On
the other hand, then and then there's the Sodo Judge thing.

(39:05):
I mean, I think, you know, on the surface, Judge
should be a right fielder. I think that's where he
looks the best. His arm and everything else plays so
well over there. They could retain Sodo and put him
on the other side and Judge and right that's their
best that's their best team. And now you go out
and find yourself a real center fielder. I haven't done
my homework on that yet, so I don't even know.

(39:26):
Just see if the Angels will. I guess Trotty's going
to move out of center field, But do what you
can to get yourself a real center fielder. Right there,
I'm saying Riz probably is not going to be back
at first space. There's another opening right there. I like
to catch her a lot. I like Wells a lot.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah I do, I do.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
I don't know, you know whatever happened there. He's straightforward.
I think he's got a good swing. There's a lot
to like. I love his look. The guy's got great face.
I'm a big fan of his. And the short stop.
I love the short stuff too. Starting pitching wise, you know,
get everybody healthy and well and maybe augmented a bit.
They have to, I mean, Holmes is not as reliable
as he needs to be, so they're gonna have to

(40:02):
tweak the book and like every nobody else's but primarily
judge out of center shas it's at second. So third
base and center field will be the big acquisition. In
first base, that's where they got to look to get
better I think into the next season.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
So that's it, I mean, I agree with you. And
then on top of.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
That, go to camp and pound pound the fundamental components
of the game.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
I mean pound them.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
I don't know who their their key instructors are on
the major league team and or in the minor league situation,
but they that's where I would begin and that would
That would be the emphasis of off season for me,
Outside of analytically trying to acquire the positions we talked about,
I would really try to not try to. I would

(40:48):
nail down who is going to be teaching what and
what are we going to be teaching, and don't copycats somebody?
All right, just oh they did this really well, we
want to be like them. What do you guys think,
How do we think? What is important to us? How
do we want to see our guys playing out there?
Arrive at that point and then do that. Everybody wants
to be like everybody else.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Crap, I'm not into it. Do all of that.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Get your best instructors, or hire your best instructors, give them,
give them some direction, then leave them alone, and then
really make sure that the stuff that occurred this year
doesn't happen again next year.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Well, I know this, Joe, that Scott Boris, who's the
agent for Juan Soto. He's got the Yankees painted into
a corner here. Yea, they really really.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Need to keep Juan Soto.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
There's a couple of factors there that are going to
make it difficult. Number one, the price they're going to
have to pay. Him much more than Aaron Judge. They're
going to have to pay him more than shoe Hey
Otani on an average annual basis in present day dollars.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
I don't know if they're going to go that far.
The problem is there is no plan B.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
I mean, think about the Yankees, this team without Juan Soto.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
I mean, there's just nobody else who comes close.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
And you can sign three other guys, but Juan Soto
is one of the four or five best play hitters
in the game, maybe all time. When you think about
what he's done at this age, the age of twenty six,
he's just getting into his prime. You know, he's battle
tested in New York. You don't have to worry about
him fitting in in terms of the pressure.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
Is.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
To me, he's the most consistent, most reliable, most guaranteed
hitting superstar there is in the game because he controls
the strikes on so well. But you've got a team
across town of the New York Mets, who, let's face it,
they got to the NLCS. They are a World Series
ready team or close to it. Won Soto puts them
over the top. And I think when you've got an

(42:38):
owner like Steve Cohen. He doesn't have concerns that the
Yankees have about blowing past a certain number or whether
you're going to upset another star in your team. Steve
Collen has a different idea of what money is than
every other owner in baseball.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
He will not be outbid.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
And when I look at Juan Soto, yeah, he loves
the penn stripes, he love playing in New York. Does
that mean he's gonna take less money to be a Yankee? No,
of course not. He's going to take the best deal.
He's going to set a record in terms of a contract.
Alex Rodriguez didn't sign with the last place Texas Rangers. Folks,
if you think these guys fall in love with legacy

(43:14):
and pinstripes and you had a good forget it. It's
about the contract at this point. So I actually think
I'd give the Mets a little bit of an edge
on signing one Soda. I don't see another team signing them.
I will see other teams get in. You'll hear about
the Dodgers. I don't pay much attention to that. The
Giants obviously they get on you, on everybody, but don't
get them. But I think it's a Yankees Mets bid

(43:37):
and I think the Mets look like a dangerous bidder.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
Of course they do, and of course they are, and
that would be rather interesting watching that unfold. But I
know we just just said about the Dodgers, but getting
back to the World Series next year. In order for
the Dodgers possibly to get back next year, Soda would
be the lynchminto doing something like that, like the like
Show Hey was this year, and of course for the
Yankees to even have a chance to do it again,

(44:02):
of course.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
He has to remain there. So you're right.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
I mean, this guy is gonna be the hottest topic
since Show Ha Tani, which.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Is not that far in the past.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
And he's gonna yet, He's gonna get numbers that are
gonna arrival Show Hey. They although he can't pitch, but
you're absolutely correct about that. It's going to be interesting.
Cohen's not gonna care. He's gonna come after him hard
and heavy, no doubt. And then like the reactionary component
from the Yankees and with their.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
I don't even know what they're capable of doing that
you hear different things. I don't.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
I'm not a true believer in everything that I hear
or read. So, yeah, it's gonna be a fascinating time.
It's gonna be show Hey esque, and you're probably right,
it's probably gonna end up in New York somewhere. But
I still think the Dodgers will win up.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
So let's talk about the Dodgers, Joe going forward.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean, you think about this team and how good
they played in the in the postseason, and how really
depleted they were. You know, no, Tyler Glass. Now you
know Michael Grove and the list walks on m its
and a lot of their pitch Tony Gonslin, May all
these guys. They have a good reservoir of pitchers, but
they have been able to keep them healthy. So next

(45:11):
year you're going to have Yamamoto back, and again he
had some injury this year. They backed off him a
little bit middle of the season. That's going to continue
to happen. He's gonna pitch every six.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Or seventh day.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Show Hey, We'll pitch next year, same kind of deal.
He's gonna pitch every sixth or seventh day. He'll probably
make twenty to twenty two starts. Tyler Glasnow, you know
this is the first year he got beyond one hundred
and twenty innings and he broke down at the end
of the season.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
He's going to be on the same program.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
They got a bunch of guys who they're going to
have to kind of nurse through the season that can't
pitch even on the fifth or maybe even the sixth day.
But they do have an inventory, have a lot of
starting pitchers. Otherwise, this team is set man. They have
a lot of long term contracts. They're not going anywhere.
The Dodgers have just incredible resources. They have a great

(45:59):
culture there. If you're around the La Dodgers, man, it
was it's just you can see that they do things
at a very high level. They don't miss anything in
terms of dotting the i's and crossing the t's, so
they are beast to deal with.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
They're not going away.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I have a feeling it could actually be better next
year because you're gonna get twenty starts from Sho Hee
O Tani.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yes, and guys that are going to be around them
that fit into that six man potential rotation. You're not
going to have the superstar picture that needs to be
on a set five man rotation. Necessarily, they're going to
feel good about having a six man as opposed to
five men, and all the nobody's going to complain about it.

(46:43):
They're all gonna be fine with it. They're going to
see that as being beneficial to them in the long haul.
The biggest thing, again is the mindset. And you know
this is just an offshoot, but like Magic Johnson sitting
in that area, right, They're gonna be motivated Freddie Freeman.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
They're gonna be motivated by.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Guys that have done it in the recent pass and
kind of like freakish in their resolve regarding turning the page,
acting like they've never won it before. Seeing with first
time I was dealing with first time passion. That's what
they're gonna do.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
I mean, I think it had been sticking with them
in a minor way in some way, the fact that
the twenty twenty World Series victory was some kind of
kind of tarnished in a way, it was an abbreviated year,
all that kind of stuff. This is legit, this one
they've really earned, and this one they're really going to
learn from. So I think they have the right people
around them. The Michael Jordan types, the Larry Bird types,

(47:33):
the Magic Johnson types, Freddy Freeman types, guys that are
not going to be satiated by just doing it one time.
So for all those different reasons, and like I said,
the resources that they have and everything the vibe around them,
and show hate being able to pitch in the every night.
It's like a playoff game there anyway. So I agree
with you that they have the best chance.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
I like your point too about these guys not being satisfied.
I mean, Mookie now is getting his third ring, Freddy
Freeman won a ring before.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Their will to win.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Does not change at all, So I know it's listened.
Nobody's repeated in a quarter of a century as World
Series champion. It's hard to do because there's more rounds
of the postseason, because the distribution of talent is better
than it's ever been. But this is a group to
me that could rise above some of that year after

(48:22):
effect that you do see happen with some teams.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Not all of them.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I would not bet on the Dodgers being satisfied that,
hey we got this title.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Now in a full season, we're good.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
No one more note in the Dodgers, Joe, I think
this is worth talking about when I talk about their culture.
When the team came to New York, the Los Angeles
Dodgers ownership took every employee in the organization. We're talking
about five hundred people, chartered airplanes, flew them to New York,

(48:54):
put them up in hotels, gave them game tickets, and
gave them per diem. Now is that classy or what?
You can talk all you want about the Dodger's payroll
and what an advantage they have. How about take treating
all of your employees who've been busting their butt all
year long and rewarding them and all of them, not

(49:17):
just the execs. I'm talking everyone in the organization. Putting
them on a plane, putting up in New York not cheap.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
We all know that. Going to New York of all places.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
And having two charter planes full of every employee in
the organization to share in the joy and thrill of
being in the World Series.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I heard that and I just applauded.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Done and Donner. That's the ultimate. That is the right
way to do things. The cachet, the exponential benefits derived,
the complimented benefits derived from all of that. We're just
going to resonate for years and years to come. Those
employees have part ownership. They're going to come to work

(49:58):
every day and whatever their job description might be, this
group is going to work on a level that probably
most others are not capable of. To feel that much
part of it is what matters the most. When you
feel like you're part of ownership in a sense, you're
going to get the best that person has to offer
in regards to him and.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
Her or the job that they perform. Unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
And again, I know not everybody says they can afford that,
but I that is the coolest thing I've heard of
right there.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
And finally, Joe, because I do want to get you
your closing comments and our thought of the day here
before we get there. Andrew Friedman, I mean, he's starting
to put together, if he hasn't already a Hall of
Fame resume, right. He hired you in Tampa, the Rays
turned around, went to the World Series. He hired Dave
Roberts with the La Dodgers. The La Dodgers turned it

(50:53):
around and gone to the World Series several times, won
it twice.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Just an incredible resume.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
And then you talk about Dave Roberts, who has the
highest winning percentage of all time of all managers who've
managed at least a thousand games, and now he has
a second title, also on the road to Cooperstown. So
congratulations to those two as well. I know you're closed
with both of them.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Yeah, they're pretty much galvanizes it. I think first with Andrew.
You know, he and I became very close down there,
and he gave me Him and Maddie Silvermen were there
in that room in Houston, gave me my first opportunity,
and I'm always grateful to them in debt to them.
Andrew specifically, we'd sit around and I'd be in my

(51:36):
desk in Tropicana and we'd sit down and talk about things.
And I used to tell Andrew all the time, you know,
you're a really good scout. You're a really good scout.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
He would, he.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Would, he would talk, He talks well, he speaks well
in regards to evaluation. I've always felt that way about him.
So he said, tell me you're really good scout, and
I think that's where it starts with him. The lifeblood
of any organization is scouting, period exclamation point. That's the
acquisitional process, whether it's free agency, however, you want to

(52:06):
acquire your players.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
That is it.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
That's scouting, and then then scouting and development. Scouting and
development be guys that you sign out of high school, college, whatever,
or bring them to your low minor leagues and make
them into something. That's it, and that's what they do well.
Like look at all these talking about all the relief pitchers,
all the guys that they got. They got all these
guys with really long names with a lot of consonants
in them.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
And these guys pitch well all the time.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Scouting, scouting, don't run away from your scouts, whatever developed
the process. It's a patient process, being flexible, know what
you want, but then be flexible with it. And you
can never ever, ever, never ever, never have enough good
pitching in your organization. That's Andrew knows that. And David,

(52:53):
on the other hand, I got to know him working
against him. I really like the way he talks when
I listened to him, very sharp.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
Very bright.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
A lot of the phrases that he uses are you know, concise, simplified,
but they express a lot at the same time. I
was really thought last night the moment with trying and
that to me is kind of like the lynchpin to
his whole that hw shall I say that puts a
stamp on his entire rein there as the manager, because

(53:23):
that was it. That to me was off script, that
was feel, that was experienced, that was making decisions based.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
On what's going on in front of me right now.
And he did it. And I think that more than
anything I've seen him do, I love that the most.
And again he's a.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Wonderful person and he loves wine too. So together, hopefully
they both retire on the same day and then that.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Way they could both go to Cooperstown on the same
day to give their.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Speech classics, no doubt about that. Yeah, that's for you, folks.
You may have stopped by for the first time on
the Book of Joe. This is the kind of insight
you get on this podcast, folks. I mean, you're gonna
hear stuff like this. You're not going to hear anywhere else.
There's no fluff here. This is a world series breakdown
where you got the behind the scenes, true story of

(54:07):
what happened in the world series. So if it is
your first time, welcome, and hopefully you come back next time.
And if you are a regular listener, you know we
always end it with the ball in the hands of
Joe Madden, who's going to close us out?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Joe, what do you got today?

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Went back to Albert not Pulholst Einstein and I just
picked on this one because it's just thinking of tenacity,
staying with things, not giving up whatever. And that's the
Dodgers method. Really made me go in that direction. It's
not that I'm so smart, It's just that I stay
with problems longer.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
And that's it. We all have issues. We all get.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Confronted with the same kind of moments on the course
of a day, problems. We get confronted with the same
kind of issues. But which separates this is how we
deal with them, how we handle them, or our ability
to stay with them longer and not just give up
so quickly.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
I'd like to believe I have some of that. And
when I read that, I thought this is right on
the money, just in you know what we need need
more of in general terms and specifically with the Dodgers,
I thought were all about U. And even listen, I
don't want to bang on the Yankees either. I've gotten
to be friends with Brian Cashman and I text with
them often, and I thought last year cashed it such

(55:18):
a spectacular job because.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
They were not.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
They were like, what two games over five hundred last year,
whatever that was. And Cash stayed with the group and
defended his brood publicly, and I thought that was great
because you don't see that a lot anymore. Everybody wants
to fire everybody after a bad moment and cashed it
and Cash stayed with his rude and.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
He defended them.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
And I love that, And so this is these all
these different things. He stayed with the problem a little
bit longer to try to solve it, and they get
arguably should still be playing in LA if they just
catch the ball. So stay with your problems a little
bit longer and things could work out.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
Well.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
I love that wisdom from Albert Joe.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
It really is, especially in the day and age where
I think we have access to and really want the
quick fixes so easily. Everybody wants the hack. You know
what's the hack? You know you're gonna look something up
a YouTube to solve a problem. Well, how about tackling
something that takes some more critical thinking, that takes some problems,
Solving that takes some brain power if you will, you know,

(56:19):
instead of exporting everything and using everything as your external
hard drive, use your own brain power to work through things.
So stick toitiveness, as they used to call it. It
seems to be in decline, but it's still as important,
if not more important, than ever. So good choice as always,
Joe going to Albert's playbook.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Thank you Tommy, and a nice job. Also, I know
what you guys do. You and Kenny, I watch you
do it, and I think you do it so easily
and so seamlessly and smoothly. Really really enjoyed what you did.
And then you hustle back today and and do this
and are totally prepared for it.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
Well done, man.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Well I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
And I just personally, and I think I speak for
Kenny as well, we consider it really a privilege.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
You know, we have the best seat in the house.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
We're there because yeah, it's a job, but we love
it as well, and we're lucky to do it.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
We'll see you next time, Joe. This has been fun,
all right, brother, Thanks man, appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts,