June 10, 2025 • 49 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci look at the 'best' in the game right now starting with Red Sox prospect Roman Anthony's debut at Fenway Park. Has the approach changed for bringing players up from the minors? Tom asks Joe how the young prospects should be handled. What shows Tom that Pirates Ace Paul Skenes could be the greatest young pitcher EVER? The Dodgers are supposed to be the best team, but why aren't they right now? Plus, after seeing the Cubs' Nico Hoerner get ejected...Joe relives some of his finest moments with the umps behind the plate.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey Darreon, Welcome Back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's the Book of Joe Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci,
and Joe Madden. Hey Joe, There's a lot going on,
So I'm going to give you basically our lineup for today.
We're going to talk about the best pitcher in baseball,
the best team in baseball, and the best prospect in baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It's not okay with you at lineup?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, I like the best.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, let's start with the best prospect.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Roman Anthony gets to the big leagues finally with the
Boston Red Sox. I say finally, somewhat facetiously. He just
turned twenty one years old, I mean three years ago.
The dude is graduating from high school down in Florida,
and people have been clamoring for this kid to get
to the big leagues and just tear it up the
minor leagues.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And you can see why, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm not sure if you caught his buwed last night,
but it was pretty darn and impressive to watch this
kid walk into Fenway Park. I mean, think about this, Joe.
You're twenty one and as you step to the play
at Fenway. You're getting a standing ovation. People have been
waiting for you to get there and save this team
that's been foundering. Not that that's going to be his job,
but just because he's a great player, a great prospect,
(01:24):
great talent, people have been waiting for him. He steps
in there and listen, he had an RBI and a walk.
He is the youngest Red Sox player ever to debut
with an RBI and a walk. So that tells you
something about how comfortably he was in the game.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wasn't a headline, you know, home run.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Walk off, whatever, But I thought, just looking at the
body language, Joe, I really like the look of this kid.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I was reading about him. I didn't actually see it,
but I did read about it. And as you're setting
that whole thing up, I'm thinking about myself, you know,
to be at that age to walk into Fenway, but
that kind of poise. I mean, that's the thing about
these young guys, is they get there. The difference. I
think there's more of the twenty one types that get
(02:10):
to the big leagues and are able to handle the
stage in a sense.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Not overwhelmed. I don't know if that where that comes from.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Necessarily Is it the part of the way we're raising
them these days.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Is it social media?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Is it being asked to do more media type things
at a younger age. Is it a I mean this
and I think a good way of sense of entitlement.
I don't know, but the way they're able to a
lot of these young guys able to handle this, based
on my memory of how I would not have handled it,
I don't think nearly as well. As these guys have
obviously overarching talent, having confidence in your ability being good.
(02:47):
I mean, that's obviously the guy's good. But nevertheless, beyond
all that, I'm a poised guy, I'm a makeup guy.
I'm a character guy when it comes to evaluating my
young players. So beyond all of his physical abilities, which
are ominous obviously, but the his ability to handle the moment,
to me, that's what stands out about him and a
lot of the other young players involved. So when I
(03:10):
see in that and the way he set it up,
like I said, that was my first thought. So that's
that would be the reason why he's going to be
very good. Is this thing that he's got within himself
that I belong here, I can do this, I should
be here. I'm a Red Sox. That's gonna be the
difference maker for him.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Joe, I'm glad you brought that up. I've noticed that
as well. I think it's an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think young players, and this is guy's very young
in terms of age, get to the big leagues and
they are not overwhelmed those old stories that hey, wait
until you see the third deck.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Of a stadium. Well, most of these guys are playing in.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Big ballparks and showcases and events and their whole lives.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's not long, but that is the environment.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
They play, a pressurized environment in which all eyes are
on them, like nobody comes up through the shadows anymore,
especially if you're that kind of level talent. So and
I think it is I think you want to something,
you know, socially, societally, these players are used to being
in the spotlight. Everybody's got a camera. Now we get that.
(04:11):
They're comfortable. I don't see these young players overwhelmed. I
don't see a need to protect players and the other thing, Joe,
and you know this really well, the clubhouse environment has
changed one thousand degrees. I mean it used to be
you got to the big leagues, you had to pay
your dues, You had to fetch coffee for guys. You
weren't supposed to say anything unless somebody spoke to you.
You were made to do demeaning things, whether it's carrying
(04:33):
the pink backpack to the bullpen or getting the beers
on the bus, which doesn't happen anymore at all. That's
how rookies were treated, right, And I think it changed
in the course of your managing career, Joe, where a
young player got to the big leagues and the veterans
finally realized, first of all, it's just a proper humane
thing to do right, treat people like human beings.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But I think they also realized, hey, for us.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
To win, these young players have to be as comfortable
as they can possibly be, So why make them uncomfortable.
It made no sense that old school, you know, break
them in a hard kind of attitude. And I think
that's gone, and I think, well, I know baseball and
these young players are better for it.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
As you started that, I wrote the word conversation. Then
I wrote the word hazing down, and then I were
dress code. After that, the conversation is completely different. You're
on hundred percent right. I remember specifically, even as a
young coach coming up when I was forty, I was.
I was absolutely intimidated by all of that. And yeah,
the third dec at Yankee Stadium was ominous, the real
Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And then on top of that, even.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Though I had spent my time in the minor leagues
as a young coach, still written a little bit by
you know, some veteran coaches as an example, and some
of the players themselves that had a longer list of achievement.
You had to prove yourself to these guys. There wasn't
just there wasn't like this acceptance without any kind of
(05:55):
proof that you belong there. You just you were accepted. Now,
hazing thing was big. I mean it was the guys
were meant or made to ride in the bathroom on
the bus as you're going to and from a ballpark
as an example, no good. The thing I wrote the
dress code for. That was one of the things I
picked up on when I became a manager. I wanted
to get rid of dress codes. I thought that was
(06:16):
an intimidating factor. Young guys come up, can't afford the
clothes that these other guys could afford, and all of
a sudden. You're supposed to dress in a certain way
to and from the ballpark on airplanes in buses, but
nobody could possibly see you.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And I felt the pressure of having to try to
dress a.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Certain way where I really I mean, I didn't get
a penny raise when I went from the minor leagues
to the big leagues as a coach, and you have
a having a place to live in both California and
in Arizona at the same time, your kids, your family's
back there, so that your money's even divided further and
you can't afford anything. There's all these stressors involved that
(06:53):
nobody ever takes into account. I remember them vividly, man,
and these are the things that are my hang ups.
When I first got to the big leagues as a coach,
and then finally I got to the point and talked
about this the I be longer, I can do this thing.
I talked about the five levels of being a professional,
and even as a young coach I had to get past.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I was happy to be there.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Then I got to survival, which is really crazy, man,
because you're just trying to not upset anybody.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And finally RVE at that point, you see he said, Man,
I could do this.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
The higher up I thought I got, the more confident
I became eventually, because I saw what the competition was
like regarding other people that were trying to do the
same job. I was so all these were contributing factors
regarding keeping you down, and like you're talking about keeping
you down were today you sache in there, man, And
it's completely different the old school methods of like you're saying, acclimatizing,
(07:46):
these guys are breaking them in.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
It no longer exists. And I agree with you. I
never liked it.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
My way of fighting against it was eradicating dress codes.
But they did. They did thwart development. I absolutely believe that.
And I think there's like you just suggested that that's
not a hurdle anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Like it had been.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, no, listen, I saw it, never liked it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I saw Bernie Williams break in with the Yankees and
get hazed by Mill Hall because Bernie was just the
sweetheart of a guy.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
That's what he held against him.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I saw Greg Jefferies get folded into a veterans Mets
team and they sort of rejected him because he was
a guy who would cleaned his bats after every game
with alcohol and make sure there were no marks on it,
and travel in a special case.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
They didn't like that.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Those days are over with as well. They should be
so good riddance to those. Let's talk about the baseball
side of things with Roman Anthony.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Joe. He played four games in the minor leagues this
year in right field.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
He has played only seventeen of his professional games in
right field.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
He's a great athlete.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I'm gonna say he can't play right field, but for
his major league debut, the Red Sox start him in
right field, which is the toughest right field in baseball.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
He did make an error.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
There was a ball hit to him that's kind of
skidded to him and just poor footwork. Really, there's no
other reason, another way to put this. He should have
stopped the ball.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He didn't. It's rare you see a ball get through.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
An out fielder in the major leagues. You know that Joe,
this one got underneath him all the way to the wall.
I would rather see Jaron Durant in right field and
Anthony left field.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
What do you think he had played? Where was his
most of his upbring?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Mostly in left field?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, he can play center too, and he's a good defender,
sure I get it, but I want my better defender,
especially in fenway and right field, and Jared Durant to me,
is the better defender.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
No question I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And the other thing is I mean, you have to
understand on the other side of the field, the ball
reacts completely differently, and you have to, as a former
outfield instructor, to very simply put, whatever side you're on,
always understand one thing. The ball is gonna curve to
the line, whether you're in left field the right field.
It slice from a left, the hook from ariety, and
vice versa. And you have to know that center field
(09:47):
the easiest position to play among the three regarding just
reading balls off the back, because the ball is normally straight,
it may have some carry. Those are the kind of
things that you have to get used to. But on
the corners, ball is gonna sliceer hook depends on the
right your left handed hitter. So your first step always
you have to understand the movement when the ball comes
off the bat. How this thing's gonna like I said,
(10:09):
slice or hook number one. So if you're constantly playing
on the other side of the field, you go to
the other side to the right field side. Now it's
different the reaction to the ball off the bat, and
you got to get used to that. And now it's
not rocket science. I understand that, but it's different. And
so I'm sure he's as good as you were talking about,
and I absolutely believe that he'll get over that. But
(10:30):
in the beginning, it's weird. And whether it's a guy
going from short to second base, third base to second base, whatever,
the game presents differently, and when it presents differently, your
mind look looks at it differently and it takes a
little bit of adjustment period. So yeah, right field, Fenway,
you want your best defender. Although they're probably maybe they
(10:50):
were worried about the left field wall, maybe it was
analytically conspired based on their lineup, but where the ball
may be hit.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I know when we.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Played the Pirates in Pittsburgh in some formidable years, we
put Schoreburn right a postal left because of the size
and the girth of left field and Pittsburgh. So I've
done that before based on the field and competency of
the outfield that moving them back and forth. But like
you said, he'll get it, but it's completely different coming
(11:17):
off the bat.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, I just don't like the idea.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You only had him four games in Triple A this
year at right field, and now it's you know, he's
out there before his major league debut taking balls in
that right field corner at Fenway Park.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Just one more thing to add to his day. That
didn't love that.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Now in the box, his setup reminds me a lot
of Christian Yelich and show Hey o Tani.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
He's very erect. He's got his hands held high.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It looks to me Joe like he's guy. He's gonna
he's just gonna.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Murder the ball up like show Hey. The way to
get him out is going to be soft down. That's
what I see from him.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I look at his.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Load and show Hey and yellis a little bit shorter
with the load. Roman brings his hands down a little
bit and has them a little bit behind them, whereas
show Hey and Yelly are not going to take their
hands behind them where they disappear behind the back. Not
a big deal. This guy can absolutely match the ball.
He'd a line drive last night one hundred and eleven
(12:12):
miles per hour. The Red Sox team this year has
hit only twenty balls one hundred and eleven miles per hour.
Hit a home run on Triple A eight one hundred
and fifteen miles per hour. Average Eason Bila was ninety five.
This guy has got real, real power, and I guarantee
you he's going to hit the ball up in the
strike zone. And that's the other thing, Joe and I
(12:35):
forget who the batter was, but I remember somebody came
up to the major leagues with the Cubs from the
minor leagues who was a dead fastball hitter. Immediately they
fed him nothing but breaking stuff. You know, the old
days of you know, let's see if this guy can
hit major league velocity.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Gone.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
You talk about respect. The Rays last night, through Roman
Anthony eighteen pitches, they threw him only three fastballs in
the zone fifty five percent of the pitches they threw
this kid making his major league debut, or spin fifty
five percent, And to his crew it he only chased
two pitches. Both were fastballs that were actually just borderline fastballs,
(13:08):
really not bad, so really good to swing decisions. But
the respect Tampa Bay showed this kid tells you the
world of information. Yes, it's in the minor leagues. Everybody's
got the info and the respect for this kid. It
was obvious in day one of the big leagues that
was Robel.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Robel Robel? Was it Robel Garcia?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yes, exactly right. I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Kid steps in and they're spinning the ball, spit of
the ball, spit of the ball.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I had been alerted to that he had been playing
in Italy, and I'll tell you what, he had a
couple home runs on fastballs. Their suckers are still going.
But he comes up and his first at bat was,
like you said, nothing but breaking balls. Items to be
at least I would say weeks or maybe a month
of a period in time when the guy gets called up,
that at least he could feast on a pitch that
he likes. Because the scott and report hasn't caught up yet.
(13:54):
But these Scotty reports precede these guys as they get there.
That's right, That's exactly what's going to happen. That is
the world that we live in. And those are the
adjustments these guys have to make right out of the
right out of the womb. Because again, it normally took
some time for people to catch up but they're caught
up the moment these guys land on the Fenway Park field.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Here's the other thing, Joe, this is a managerial check,
and I really want interested in your opinion. Of course,
you know these managers have more information than we do.
Let's start with that. We know that, not second guessing
Alex Corey here. I'm just I want to talk through
the options here. You're batting this kid fifth for his
major league debut.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That alone tells you how much confidence you have with
this kid.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
We get to the eleventh inning, the Red Sox are
down two runs. You have the automatic runner on second base,
and there's a left handed pitcher on the mound. Alex
core A pinch hits for Roman Anthony with Rob Refsnyder.
Now ref Snyder is in the big leagues because he
hits left handed pitching. He's lugging over five hundred against them.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
The pitcher on the mound, the lefty, was Ian Seymour,
who was making his major league debut. In other words,
a couple of days ago, he was in the minor
leagues with Roman Anthony.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I understand.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You know you're looking the juice of ball over the
wall there tied game, and Rob Refsneider did get a
walk out on base, so now you've got the time
runs on base. I just don't like the idea. I've
got my fifth place hitter making his major league debut.
I never want him looking over his shoulder late in
the game to see if the manager has confidence in
(15:21):
me against the lefty, and I'll go back to I
saw Rafael Devers in the fifteenth game he ever played
in the big leagues at the age of twenty, stepped
in in the ninth inning, down one run against a
Roldis Chapman, took the bat and hit a home run
off a pitch that was one oh two point eight
miles per hour. Rafael Devers never looked over his shoulder.
(15:43):
I just don't like the idea for the top prospect.
I'm gonna say any young prospect of saying it's all right,
we're gonna have the right to take this at bat
for you.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
What do you think, yeah, mud, Yes, I mean listen,
I don't second guess guys. There's always reasons apparently, but
no way, I'm thinking that's like Longo comes up, I'm
gonna pinch it for Longo late in the ball game
with the Rays back in oakb comes up first couple
at bats, I'm going to pitch it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
For KB plate in the game. You don't do it.
You just don't do it.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I mean, that's the I think the potential negative effects
are greater than the positives. Rest night are walking whatever.
But this guy's got to know that. You believe he's
a guy, he got his back, he's there for he's
there for a reason.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
My god, I don't know. I don't I don't get
that one.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Quite frankly, I could say with the assuredness I would
never have done that, because it's just the negative components
of that really exponentially outweigh what's going to happen positively
in that one particular game.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I don't know this kid. He's probably pretty tough.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I would imagine this, But maybe there was a conversation
with the batting instructor. I'm sure the batting coach with
this kid after as the as refsnyders going up to
the plate, this conversation is taking place.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
But yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't see
the positive there at all.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
By the way, he hit three sixty seven against lefties
and the miners.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, well he's gonna do that. I mean, listen, it's
it doesn't not even knowing that. I mean when you
pet when you have left these like that minor league
development wise and coming up. He's a guy exactly, and
I would like, you know, I'm when I said, run
the minor leagues. There's no way I would permit one
of my managers to pinch it for a guy like that.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I had.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
This was like that early on with Jimmy Edmonds Jarff Phillips,
two good leftenant hitters.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Both maybe to the big leagues.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Of course, everybody remembers Jimmy, and even to the point
where one of my managers wanted a bat him lower
in the batting order they were struggling. I said, no,
we're not doing that. We're not going to put Jimmy
eighth or ninth or seventh. And the same thing with
Charlie Phillips j R. Ain't happening. That's not where they're
going to hit. I don't want their confidence shattered they're
at all, especially on the minor league level.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
So even came down to that for me, I did not.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Want the better players left on left uh put down
there now I didn't mind obviously back then, even you know,
if the guys the stuff, you know, organizational kind of
guy and you're trying to win the game. And that
was the other thing I took the wraps off them
in August, last month of the season, where I would say,
go ahead and try to win the game. You know,
you don't have to play as much for development. But
there was certain untouchables, and it just like I said, psychologically,
(18:17):
the devastation to that guy could be a lot more
greater than just an out or losing a minor league
baseball game. And in this situation, we'll see it plays
out over the next week or so. I bet she
doesn't do it again. That'd be my bet.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, And listen, everything that I've heard about this kid,
the character is off the charts.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I mean, he's very composed.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
We saw that, as we mentioned in his comfort level,
his swing decisions, everything, body language.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Last night. I wouldn't worry about what it does to him.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I just think sometimes chasing those incremental edges strategically within
a game, you've got to look beyond that and just
messaging to your top prospect, the top prospect in baseball
in that case, to me is more important.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Well, it's also going to create some kind of a
little bit of a conversation within the clubhouse, one of
those like little innuendo field conversations that you don't need,
especially with the fact that the Red Sox are like struggling.
To Ben, I would almost believe that part of the
decision making right there was the fact that they're sub
five hundred right now. There's there's a lot of little
things items going on within that decision making, but the
(19:17):
conversation created from that moment within the clubhouse is never good.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
By the way, this weekend at the Fens, it is Yankees,
Red Sox, the Roman Empire against the evil Empire.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
That will be his wealth, the big league moment.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I love that. That's great.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Hey, when we come back, we need to talk about
Paul Skeins.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Is he the greatest pitching phenom of all time? Stick
around for that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I'm just amazed
(19:59):
by Paul Skeins.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I mean, you've seen a lot of great.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Pictures break into the big leagues, and you're and I
never saw anyone better coming out.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Of the Gate than Dwight Gooden.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Dwight Gooden was the best pitching phenom I ever saw,
and he was doing it at twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I mean, he was just two pitch guy, fastball, curveball.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
He overwhelmed major league hitters like nobody that I saw.
So I have a hard time thinking that Paul Skeens
or anybody is a better phenom than Dwight Gooden. Now,
you can go Fernando Valenzuela, you can go Mark Fidgritch,
you can go Steven Strasburg, the whole litany.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
We all know the names. But I will tell you this.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
About Paul Skeens in his first thirty seven starts. It's
all we have to go by right now, just thirty
seven starts. He's a year and a month into his
major league career. He has the lowest ERA of any
pitcher in his first thirty seven starts, one point nine
to three. He has the second highest strikeout rate of
any pitcher in his first thirty seven starts. Only Steven
(21:00):
Strasburg had a higher strikeout rate, and Strawburg already had
blown out by the time he.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Made twelve starts in the big leagues.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So when I watch him pitch, Joe, We're talking about
a guy with seven pitches.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
He throws his basketball in ninety eight.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
He has seven pitches and six of them are positive
run value.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
They're elite pitches.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And right now, if you look at how pitching isn't
the big leagues, and I always call this the three s's,
it's shaping, it's sequencing, and it's spin, there's nobody doing
it better than Paul Skean's.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Now you can give me Trek School, Well, I get it.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I wouldn't argue that, you know, this guy's right there,
but no one's better right now than Paul Skeen. So
I do think in a thirty seven game sample size,
Paul Skeenes is the best pitching phenom.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Ever, what do you think hard argue?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Right? I mean, the numbers support all of that. I
watch him.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
I mean, first of all, you know, the physical size,
the deception, and his delivery. You know, I was concerned
about the ways arm kind of worked when I first
saw it, and then the fact that he throws like
the split kind of a pitch where he splits his
fingers a lot. All those things always bothered me with
the young pitcher. But it just seems like he's on
a different level strength wise, and the flexibility and the
way he developed all this coming up through the collegiate
(22:17):
ranks to get to the Major League's professional baseball and
the major leagues. He's a different animal. I cannot disagree
with that. I probably need to watch him a little
bit more steadily often. However, this stuff is oppressive. It's
just all like you said, And I was concerned that
he's like adding too many ingredients in the mix with
all these different pitches, and how that would because sometimes
(22:39):
as you're throwing another pitcher and newer pitch, that something
else that you do really well suffers. And I always
was concerned about that when guys would want to do that.
Pictures I had, especially with the Rays. But however, obviously
he can do it. I mean, the guy just manipulates
the ball so well. You Darbish does that really well,
Shoiotani does that really well. These guys you could just
(22:59):
give them a pitch before the game. I swear I
saw it, and they take it into the game, and
it's just that's as an additive, like walking out through
the bullpen. The time that Darbish picked up Kyle Hendrick's
changeup and then he brings it into the game. I
was like staggering to watch this whole thing. Certain guys
just have this different feel and it's all about feel.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I mean, you get information, you do mechanics.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
You think things through, but feel, to me is the
ultimate reason why somebody's outstanding what they do. They just
feel something and they're able to replicate it, repeat it
more constantly than those that are pedestrian like myself. I mean,
feel is what makes the world go around, I believe.
So he's got this incredible feel for what he does,
(23:42):
and then I think his workout with team being as
unique as it is, he's built up this this method
within his body that he's Like I said, there's a
deception about it, but there's also a repeatability about it.
And then this is innate feel for manipulating the ball
by his fingertips. Really interesting to watch. Everybody wants one
of those not easy to find.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
You mentioned you Darvish, and as you said that, I
thought about David Cohne, Mike Mussina, two guys who literally
El Duque Orlando Hernandez. They could almost invent pitches on
the mound as they're going through the game.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
As you said, the key there is feel. So Skeens
is a guy.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
He is a physical beast, right, I mean it's he's
built to pitch deep into games and he's doing that
now with the governors off this year as opposed to
last year. But he also has tremendous feel. I mean,
the art of pitching, it doesn't get any better than
what he's doing right now. You did mention, you know,
the way he was kind of tinkering with some pitches.
You know, spring training he sort of experimented with the cutter.
(24:39):
That was one of his projects. I haven't seen them
throw the cutter this year, which I'm happy about.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
He doesn't need that pitch.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
What he has added, though, is the two seamer, and
it is just remarkable to watch Paul Skeen's carve up
right handed hitters. Now, he's got a four steam fastball
I mentioned at ninety eight that has carry at the
top of his own. He's got that splinker, which is
really a combination of a sinker and a split where
he does split the fingers where that ball and he
(25:07):
loves to throw it inside the Rady's drops so it
goes below the barrel of the hitter. And now he's
got the two seamer that runs in on the right
handed hitter's hands. Now think about that, we're only talking
about pretty much fastballs here. All these pitches are between
ninety three and ninety eight miles an hour. So he's
got the four steamer elevated with ride, he's got the
(25:28):
splinker down that drops, and he's got the two seamer
that runs in on the hands. There's no way a
hitter can cover all those things. And we haven't even
got to his breaking stuff yet. So I just think
that Paul Skeens is on a different level than everybody
else in terms of his ability to put people away.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I mean, he.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Literally has strikeouts on seven different pitches this year. There's
just too much to cover well completely. You have to
honor the ninety eight miles per hour. He's fun to
watch pitch because he's always thinking out there, it's not here,
it is hit it. He forces swing decisions because he
does not spray the ball. His misses are almost always
(26:08):
good misses. There's almost nothing you can rule out out
of the hand as being non competitive.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Just to get a chance anytime.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
This guy pitches for me, it's it's musty because it's
it's pitching.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's not just power, it's not just below.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Agreed, and you kind of touched on it the wanting
to an ability to pitch inside in general, What does
his numbers look like against lefties on the inner part
of the plate.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Do you have that information?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Uh, that's where he goes a lot with the four
steamers up and end.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Okay to the lefty.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
He's got the slider once in a while, throw there,
but curveball is just okay, that's probably his seventh pitch.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Doesn't show that a lot. That's more of it just
to can get me over once in a while.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
But I'd have to dive into specifically what the average Listen,
nobody hits Paul Skins like everything against Paul Skins, the
numbers are low, so you're looking at any kind of vulnerability.
And the split splinker he generally keeps the same on
arm side the entire time.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Whether it's right he's or lefties. So that's a good
pitch against lefties.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
To exactly the down and way. I'm just curious because
you're he's just dominating the inner part of the plate
against the rightings. I mean the two seamer or this.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's a lot like Zach Wheeler doing it.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, I love that stuff. I love pitches underneath.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
James Shields, Alex Cobb, Kyle Hendrix, all these really good
change up guys, not splinkers, whatever, but guys that could
dive balls underneath.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Righty's.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Part of the thing is as a right handed hitter,
it's a little bit different now maybe, but predominantly you're
really like more of a flat swing inside the ball
kind of a swing. And whenever you had a flat
swing underneath, this really good place to go. So that
would be a lefty slider breaking ball at the back
foot of a righty or a right hander that's willing
to throw that change up or a sinker down and
down underneath.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
That's why guys they hate that pitch.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
They're going if they hit it, it's going to be
off their shin or they're there their big tone on
the left foot. I mean, it's an uncomfortable at bat
when you get guys, lot of guys power guys sometimes
and they're not willing to throw inside.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
At least a.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Hitter is willing to and can look more away, which
helps him a little bit. But when you're when you're
able to pound that inner edge of the plate, it
opens up so much. And so again, you're right, he's
a thinking kind of a guy. Is not just a thrower.
He has ability to pitch with all kinds of magnificent weapons.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, keep an eye on now.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I'm just looking up the numbers here, Joe against lefties
on pitches away outer half of the plate one eighty
on pitchers inner half of the plate one ninety.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, he just covers every quadrant in every shape. Yeah,
I mean, it's just he's a nightmare for me to watch.
I used to think Pedro Martinez had the best put
away stuff I ever had, because he had three elite
pitches that he would throw with equal confidence with skeins.
It's just you never know what's coming.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I'm gonna make sure I watch his next start. I'll
check it. Do you know when he's starting again? Is it? Well?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
He pitched Sunday and generally they're gonna keep him on
the sixth day, so it should be coming up this
weekend of Friday.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Okay, yep, check, I'm gonna check it out.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And speaking we mentioned we're talking about the best of
the best and here the best team in baseball.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Maybe we put that in quotes the La Dot.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I'm on your take on the Dodgers, Joe, because I'm
not impressed. Listen, they're a good team. Don't get me wrong,
Dodgers are one of the best teams. I'd still think
they're the favorites to win the World Series. But they're
not the juggernaut that we thought we were going to
see this year, right. I mean, obviously a big part
of that is injuries. The Dodgers have run through thirty
pitchers to cover sixty seven games. I mean, that's just ridiculous.
(29:30):
Give me your take on the Dodgers and what you
see here. It's hard, I understand to evaluate them because
they're working through so many injuries. Offense is carrying this team.
They're scoring more runs per game than any team in baseball.
But give me your kind of thirty thousand foot view
here on the La Dodgers and where they're at.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
You know, the fact that they did last year, all
the preseason hype about them, there's a certain little hangover
that they're still experiencing. In general terms, however, it's been
exacerbated by the pitching the pitching. I think if they
have their regular guys out there all the time, well healthy,
you would see a more dominant for foremans on their
on their side if they're scoring that many points.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
They're pitching has been I watched once in a while.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
You know, Gonsolin looks just stillkaman uh Snell being out,
all these guys being hurt, it's different. They just don't
have their regular guys out there, and you have to God,
I can't even imagine spreading that many pitchers out over
this part of the season, this this early this season,
have that many guys towing a rubber for you. That's
that's a difficult concept of thoughts. So I think part
(30:31):
of it is that the fact that they the hype
and what they had done last year, all that stuff.
The other part is everybody's shooting for them. I mean,
you come in to play the Dodgers. I mean, the
Angel swept them this year and that's like unheard of
at any time.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But they came in a sweep them.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
So there's there's there's a certain uh like maybe playing
to their level of competition right now, they just haven't like.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Fully engaged overall.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
They will, Like you said, I think they will at
some point right now, but there's a lot of little
like shin kicking kind of things that are going on there,
just keeping them from getting to the point where they
everybody believes that they can be. I think it starts
with the pitching, obviously, and I think again, I know,
if I'm playing the Dodgers right now, I'm definitely gonna
be jacked up about that whole thing and probably going
(31:17):
to play a little bit above my skis because I
want to beat them. You always want to beat the best.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So there's there's a.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Conspiratory thing going on with a lot of different stuff.
But I think there's a hangover component to it.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I do. I've experienced it. I've been part of that.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
And then I think that the pitching is so important
to their success. And then finally, competitively speaking, everybody wants
to beat them.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I love that last point, Joe. We're seeing that with
San Diego. San Diego has been that way for a while,
right The Padres love to look them in the eye.
I mean to borrow from the ads in the back
of the comic books in the old days, they're kicking
sand in their face, where those Charles at let's adds
had some muscle. Yeah, that's the padres man. They're not
intimidated by the Dodgers. You know, it's a great series
(32:01):
every time they play. But I think you're right. Teams,
the Angels or anybody look at the Dodgers right now
and rightfully so say that team is not a juggernaut.
They're gettible. The Dodgers are gettable. And again I'm not
gonna be like they're not a good team. They're a
really good team, but they're not a juggernaut. Let me
just throw some numbers here at you, Joe. We mentioned
the pitching injuries. They're tied with the Marlins for the
(32:25):
fewest innings per start. They get four point seven innings
per start on average. Their starters throw an average of
eighty pitches to start. Only the White Sox at seventy nine,
are out there less than Dodgers starters. They're fifteen and
fifteen in their last thirty games. They are nine and
eleven against left handed pitching. That's certainly something I think
(32:48):
some team in the postseason might be able to exploit.
I'd much rather throw a lefty against the Dodgers. They're
sixteen and fourteen against teams with a winning record. They've
had an easy schedule, that's not a lot of games.
Sixteen and fourteen. The Pirates have as many wins against
winning teams as the Dodgers. Let me say that again,
the Pirates have as many wins against winning teams as
(33:11):
do the La Dodgers. They're also, by the way, the
oldest team in baseball. This is the second oldest Dodger
team in baseball.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
The only older Dodger.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Team the nineteen twenty five Brooklyn Robbins who went sixty
eight and eighty five. So you know, listen, San Diego second,
by the way in terms of the oldest team and
the Phillies or third age.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
What does that mean experience?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, but generally means more susceptible to injuries as well.
I just think again, Joe, I'm not making any final
consensus opinions on whether Dodgers win the World Series or not.
I'm just saying their road to October is going to
be rocky.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
It is rocky. They're not going to run away from
the Padres.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And maybe not even the Giants, but they're they're in
a race that I expect them the win. But this
is not the one hundred and ten wins team. We
thought we were getting.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
The Road's Rocky. How many times have they played the
Rockies this year? I mean, look at that that record
over the right, I mean, that whole n West. I mean,
that's they're all benefiting from that somehow. But to pitch
four point seven eighty pitches per.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Start, that's so hard.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
I mean, I mean, just I'm just thinking about that
on a managerial perspective. I mean, when you have to
when you have to suck up that many bullpen innings
every night and try to piece it together successfully, somebody,
somebody's gonna have a bad night. That's to me. It
starts right there. Obviously, the left handed pitching thing is
a concern.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I agree with you on that.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Then you'd have to like match it up against the
opposition potentially who has good left tennant starters. But those
other teams definitely gonna have to have some lefties coming
out of the bullpen, but left handed starters. Who are
the dominant left handed starters within the National League right now,
et cetera. And how do they match up eventually in
the playoffs against the Dodgers. That would be for me,
the front office I'm sure they're on that right now.
You know the record against winning teams, it's it's really strange, man.
(35:02):
But again, everybody they got a target under back right now,
they've got to target. They're less stand a little bit.
And again based on the typically the Dodgers always known
for their pitching, and they're just they're just they're short
there right now. So there's you're right, there's a lot
of reasons why. You know, the coronation is not the
Dodgers are going to do this. No, there's a lot
of competition out there, and if they don't get their pitching, well,
(35:25):
I don't think it's gonna happen for them.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, I will say, And you know this, and your
team's always played this way, Joe too. They're great finishers.
Know these veteran teams, they know the length of the season.
They know when they have to put the pedal to
the floor, and they do respond that. There's never and
I hate the word panic. Major league players do not panic.
The media just loves to throw that word around.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Well he didn't panic. Well, yeah, no, they don't panic.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
But what I'm saying is the Dodgers have an understanding
of the length of the season. Having gone through it
so many times with its basically same group of guys,
I expect them to play better, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Whether they get fully healthy or not.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Who knows about as like Tyler Glass now Blake Snell,
whether they're coming back. We've seen Clayton Kershaw come back
and the stuff. His last start was actually okay, it
was much better. He finally found some spin on his
breaking ball. But you know, he's sitting at eighty nine ninety.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
He is what he is.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
I don't think you want to rely on him starting
Game one or two in a postseason series, but he's
there to help. So we'll see about the La Dodgers.
I can't say I'm worried Joe. But if I'm the
Padres and you're seeing them right now, you're seeing a
team that's gettable.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah, well, you got the teams within their division, you know,
the Padres of course to what they're doing. Then the Giants,
I mean the Giants have been playing some good baseball too.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Then you go to the other side.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
You got the Mets in the Phillies on the other
coast right now, and there's there's the there's there's a
there's suitors, there there's there's definitely people that are able
to dethron them, and the other teams are really I
hate to use the word hungry, err, but they might be.
You know, they like you said, you suggest that the
Padres the Giants, I know that they got something to
prove there too, and they they're fade now they're back.
(37:02):
I mean, there's there's these other teams out there. They
want that crown and they're they you know, the keep
getting the sad kicked and their faces suggested it earlier.
They're over that. They're all over that, man. So I
think there's plenty of competition right now. And again I
get what you said. I've been a part of that
and I used to really be aware of that. But
(37:23):
the teams that I had is that really be aware
of playing your better baseball in the latter part of
the season. For me, that was resting more guys earlier
in the year. But I don't even know. I just
think that the competition is it's looking kind of equal,
I mean, or even better than for some of these teams.
And so it's just not a lock for the Dodgers.
They do have to get those guys well, but the
(37:43):
other teams are not going to take it anymore kind
of a thing, and I think it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break on the
Book of Joe when we get back.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I can't wait to talk to Joe about this.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
When umpires throw out players and do it very quickly.
I'm sure it's a favorite topic of his and all managers.
We'll dive into that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I'm not sure if you saw the ejection of Nico
Horner the other day that comes infielder was thrown out
by Derek Thomas, the umpire, and man, was it quick.
It was a strike three call, kind of a borderline call.
You know, it happens, player doesn't like it. He turned
around and he said to the umpire you're having a
bad day.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
And boom he was gone like that.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
No profanity, it was all g rated stuff. I mean,
you know, I'm sure you've been through this, Joe. Where
Craig Counsel comes out. Obviously, he's livid because you know,
a manager, what he really wants to do is get
out there quickly enough before things really get heated and
you lose your player, right, It's the one thing managers
never want to lose their player, especially you know, one
(39:01):
of your main guys. He couldn't get out there even
close to being quickly enough. So then counts got run
as well, because you have to at that point. But yeah,
give you your take on that, because first of all,
I love the inventiveness of Nico Horner's saying, man, you're
having a really bad day and then paying the price
for it quickly. I thought it was too quick of
a hook, but you never know what these umpires, what
(39:22):
can trigger them.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
That's so good. That's a Stanford boy right there, Nico.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
So I mean I giggled salad coming from him because
he doesn't say a whole lot. But then when he
does say it, he got right to the point. There
was a time that an up partly kicked Ben Zoeberst
out of the game. It was Phil Couzy, and it
was a pitch that was a bad pitch, and then
Zoe started arguing in his Zoe way, which is very polite,
(39:45):
and eventually he gets kicked out of the game, maybe
not as quickly as Nico, But I told Phil, I said,
you realize you just kicked Ben Zoeberst out of the game.
I said, do understand what that means like in the
afterlife for you? Right now, it's just guys like a
guy like Nico.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
If it's a.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Constant complaint, yeah, maybe you could be a little bit
quicker if the guy's been the player has been on
you for a bit, different series, different times, whatever. I
could see somewhat of a quicker ejection. But Nico, he
doesn't say anything. Zoe never said anything. It's just really you,
these these umpires sometimes like bucking Bob Davidson, he would
(40:23):
just could have just laughed at that. Bob would have
laughed at that. He and I used to laugh at
different things. I told him I loved him. One time
as he was throwing me out, he said, I love
you too, and he kicked me out of the game.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
It's just it could be fun that's that was funny.
Well you just told me there, that was really funny
because Nik was probably right. But sometimes they do.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
I've been very I'm proud of myself in certain ejections,
and when I've done that, I have apologized to the
umpire either that night or the next day. But sometimes
obviously it's it's deserved this one right here, Come on,
just laugh a little bit.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Move on.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I've always found it interesting and obviously you've been a
party to way way more of these things conversations if
you will, then I but it's almost like a part
parlor game, like.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
How far can you go? What?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Well, we'll know the magic words right And as as
you make anything personal, you use that word you, like
you may say the call stunk or you know, choose
your adjective of your choosing, but you can't say you
and making it personal like that you're going to get wrong.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
The right wrong four letter words will get you wrong.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
But did you ever feel that, Joe, Like it's almost
like a parlor game, Like I understand there are sometimes
you want to get thrown out, but like how far
can I go without being thrown out and still making
my point and by the way, putting out a show?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Yeah, you tap dance? You do?
Speaker 4 (41:41):
You definitely tap dance. You don't want to say that
the exact words that you want to you do? You
avoid the word you as much as you possibly can.
I went out to there was I think might have
been a playoff game. Guards is pitching and Gary Shutterstrom
was the Empire at second base and thought it was
a Boki did something.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
It was a call, and I got really upset.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
So I walked out to the mound and I started
screaming at at Garza. I started screaming at him as
though I was talking to cut Strong and so, you know,
you know what you're doing, you stink whatever.
Speaker 5 (42:13):
And eventually Gary figured out what I was doing and
he walked over and he kicks me out because Garza
put his glove up by his face because he started
laughing because of course he knew what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
So I was arguing with Garz is though he was.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
The umpire, and eventually the umpire caught onto and I
was ejected from the game. Deservedly so, but that was
that was one of my more creative moments. I think
in regards to getting ejected.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I'm just trying to picture Garza.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I mean, yeah, that probably was like maybe the slightest
moment of panic where his manager is just dreaming them
out there on the mound till I figure out what
his manager was up to.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
You know, guards had that big old nose, it's like
put it over his the glove over his face. And
he's laughing. All the players are standing there too, and
they got it real quick. And then Gary caught onto
the joke and then I was gone.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Did you ever I'm sure the answer must be yes,
But go out there with the intention of getting run.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
Absolutely. I was in the min leg xit even till
umpires before the game. Joe Burrowson once in Midland, I said, listen, man,
team stinks right now. I'm looking for the first close
call and I'm going to be out there. I'm going
to try to avoid any really bad language, but just
just just get me out of there, kick me out
of there. And I did it once with Teddy Barrett
in Denver. Teddy Barrett nicest human being on Earth, Umpire
(43:32):
good Umpire, a boxer, former Golden Gloves boxer and apprecier.
I actually offered to marry my daughter Sarah when Sarah
got married, but I was up something I'll play in Denver.
This is when the rays of the Devil rays and
I'm out in the mount On'm yelling and here comes
Teddy and I turned on to Teddy.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
You got to throw me out of the game.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
He says, Joe. I don't want to, Teddy. You got
to throw me out of the game, please. I don't
want to start yelling and stuff. So finally I just
said something else and Teddy threw me out of the
game and I left. You know, I did whatever I
had to do. After the game, he's walking out. I'm
on the bus in the first seat. I cannot give
him a big hunt.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I don't thank you a great story. I love that stuff,
great stuff inside the game. Speaking of great stuff, Joe,
you always bring us home with something great.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
What do we got today for our thought of the day?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
I guess it's kind of you know.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
I'm just like, I'm looking at everything that's going on,
and I think I was focusing on the word tradition
and traditions, and I was thinking about that, but then
it worphed into something else for me, because sometimes I
love tradition, but sometimes it can become too static and
we become unwavering with it. But although I do believe
that we get away from them sometimes where there's a foundation, Bill,
(44:44):
I'm you know, thinking about here in Hazelton, my Catholic upbringing,
you know, family and friends, and I'm still looking out
at my golf course where I've played when I was younger,
but it worphed into the word flexibility, and so I traditionally,
I think traditions are you know, foundational, but there also
has to be it's got to be a flexibility because
sometimes they do run their course. But so I went
(45:06):
in with flexibility today and then it was a great line.
And because I've always believed that as a manager, as
a coach, being flexible on a daily basis, whether it's
like in your hitting instruction, like the batting practice, sometimes
there's a machine, sometimes they threw from an angle, sometimes
there was no batting practice. You would bury your methods
(45:29):
on a daily basis, so the unit to become stale.
And John would flexibility is the key to stability. And
I love that because again by remaining flexible and trying
to do the same thing in another way, saying the
same thing in other words kind of like exercises the
mind and it makes it more creative or interesting. So
John Wooden, flexibility is the key to stability. I've read
(45:51):
his books, like, I actually sat up about this. I
sat with coach Woulden't in my office and Anaheim. I
can't remember the year it was. I was a bench coach,
big baseball fan, so he and I said in this
was kind of a conference was my office, and I
sat across the table just he and I for about
half an hour just talking. He loved baseball, so that
was like one of my highlights of my life. And
(46:12):
then just to dovetail edges quickly. But Colin Powell is
another one of my favorites. I read the autobiography. He
always talked about being a force multiplier, and he talked
about allegiance to the leader, the president. We might disagree
with him, but the end of the day is going
to support him. He's got his back. But he said
leaders honor their core values, but are flexible and how
(46:33):
they execute them.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
So I love the word flexibility.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
I know what I know, and I know what I
believe in and we all do, but you still have
to remain flexible in regards to how are you going
to implement this or how we're going to get our
point across. So I don't know, somehow might cover what
we talked about today, but I'm really big on that
word flexibility, and today's just resonated for me.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up John Wooden. Yeah, he
was a huge baseball fan. I got to meet him
once at Angel Stadium. Actually he carried around these cards
with his pyramid success and back in the day he
used to live if they were not next door neighbors,
same neighborhood as Vin Scully. How about that Vin Scully
and John Wooden living next to each other. And it's
(47:16):
just interesting, Joe, that how many times do we come
back to the theme of balance, right, And that's what
you just reminded me. Here this quote from John Wooden
about flexibility and stability.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
It really is about balance.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
We talk a lot here about, you know, sort of
the liberal arts background, balancing the left side of the brain,
the right side of the brain, balancing data and art,
hitting his balance, pitching his balance, and over emphasis on
one thing. Probably not really good. Maybe overemphasizing tradition, maybe
not very good. So I always come back to your
pink flamingo Joe. It's the balance. It's about the balance.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
It is.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
He was the centerpoint of a lot of the art
that I did. I've been a flamingo guy, pink flamingo
guy for long, for many years, but yeah, a balance
in our entire life. And I actually wrote like a
note to my mom back in the nineteen seventy nine
eighty era. I wrote my mom a note, and I
wish I could find it immediately, But it was about
balance in life, and I wanted her to know how
(48:14):
much I appreciated her and and the balance that she
created within our lives.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
It's overlooked. I mean, we become so polar.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
We think we're always so right and unable to listen
to the other side. And compromise is a really important word.
So all this stuff is always at the forefront of
my mind. And so but I do love the word
being flexible.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
That was actually two quotes of the day. So you're
gonna spoil us, Joe. We're gonna expect us every time.
Two really good ones from John Wooden and Colinwe those guys.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Thanks for that. We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
See it Tommy, Thanks buddy.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey Darreon, Welcome Back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's the Book of Joe Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci,
and Joe Madden. Hey Joe, There's a lot going on,
So I'm going to give you basically our lineup for today.
We're going to talk about the best pitcher in baseball,
the best team in baseball, and the best prospect in baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It's not okay with you at lineup?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, I like the best.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, let's start with the best prospect.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Roman Anthony gets to the big leagues finally with the
Boston Red Sox. I say finally, somewhat facetiously. He just
turned twenty one years old, I mean three years ago.
The dude is graduating from high school down in Florida,
and people have been clamoring for this kid to get
to the big leagues and just tear it up the
minor leagues.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And you can see why, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm not sure if you caught his buwed last night,
but it was pretty darn and impressive to watch this
kid walk into Fenway Park. I mean, think about this, Joe.
You're twenty one and as you step to the play
at Fenway. You're getting a standing ovation. People have been
waiting for you to get there and save this team
that's been foundering. Not that that's going to be his job,
but just because he's a great player, a great prospect,
(01:24):
great talent, people have been waiting for him. He steps
in there and listen, he had an RBI and a walk.
He is the youngest Red Sox player ever to debut
with an RBI and a walk. So that tells you
something about how comfortably he was in the game.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wasn't a headline, you know, home run.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Walk off, whatever, But I thought, just looking at the
body language, Joe, I really like the look of this kid.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I was reading about him. I didn't actually see it,
but I did read about it. And as you're setting
that whole thing up, I'm thinking about myself, you know,
to be at that age to walk into Fenway, but
that kind of poise. I mean, that's the thing about
these young guys, is they get there. The difference. I
think there's more of the twenty one types that get
(02:10):
to the big leagues and are able to handle the
stage in a sense.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Not overwhelmed. I don't know if that where that comes from.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Necessarily Is it the part of the way we're raising
them these days.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Is it social media?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Is it being asked to do more media type things
at a younger age. Is it a I mean this
and I think a good way of sense of entitlement.
I don't know, but the way they're able to a
lot of these young guys able to handle this, based
on my memory of how I would not have handled it,
I don't think nearly as well. As these guys have
obviously overarching talent, having confidence in your ability being good.
(02:47):
I mean, that's obviously the guy's good. But nevertheless, beyond
all that, I'm a poised guy, I'm a makeup guy.
I'm a character guy when it comes to evaluating my
young players. So beyond all of his physical abilities, which
are ominous obviously, but the his ability to handle the moment,
to me, that's what stands out about him and a
lot of the other young players involved. So when I
(03:10):
see in that and the way he set it up,
like I said, that was my first thought. So that's
that would be the reason why he's going to be
very good. Is this thing that he's got within himself
that I belong here, I can do this, I should
be here. I'm a Red Sox. That's gonna be the
difference maker for him.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Joe, I'm glad you brought that up. I've noticed that
as well. I think it's an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think young players, and this is guy's very young
in terms of age, get to the big leagues and
they are not overwhelmed those old stories that hey, wait
until you see the third deck.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Of a stadium. Well, most of these guys are playing in.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Big ballparks and showcases and events and their whole lives.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's not long, but that is the environment.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
They play, a pressurized environment in which all eyes are
on them, like nobody comes up through the shadows anymore,
especially if you're that kind of level talent. So and
I think it is I think you want to something,
you know, socially, societally, these players are used to being
in the spotlight. Everybody's got a camera. Now we get that.
(04:11):
They're comfortable. I don't see these young players overwhelmed. I
don't see a need to protect players and the other thing, Joe,
and you know this really well, the clubhouse environment has
changed one thousand degrees. I mean it used to be
you got to the big leagues, you had to pay
your dues, You had to fetch coffee for guys. You
weren't supposed to say anything unless somebody spoke to you.
You were made to do demeaning things, whether it's carrying
(04:33):
the pink backpack to the bullpen or getting the beers
on the bus, which doesn't happen anymore at all. That's
how rookies were treated, right, And I think it changed
in the course of your managing career, Joe, where a
young player got to the big leagues and the veterans
finally realized, first of all, it's just a proper humane
thing to do right, treat people like human beings.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But I think they also realized, hey, for us.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
To win, these young players have to be as comfortable
as they can possibly be, So why make them uncomfortable.
It made no sense that old school, you know, break
them in a hard kind of attitude. And I think
that's gone, and I think, well, I know baseball and
these young players are better for it.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
As you started that, I wrote the word conversation. Then
I wrote the word hazing down, and then I were
dress code. After that, the conversation is completely different. You're
on hundred percent right. I remember specifically, even as a
young coach coming up when I was forty, I was.
I was absolutely intimidated by all of that. And yeah,
the third dec at Yankee Stadium was ominous, the real
Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And then on top of that, even.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Though I had spent my time in the minor leagues
as a young coach, still written a little bit by
you know, some veteran coaches as an example, and some
of the players themselves that had a longer list of achievement.
You had to prove yourself to these guys. There wasn't
just there wasn't like this acceptance without any kind of
(05:55):
proof that you belong there. You just you were accepted. Now,
hazing thing was big. I mean it was the guys
were meant or made to ride in the bathroom on
the bus as you're going to and from a ballpark
as an example, no good. The thing I wrote the
dress code for. That was one of the things I
picked up on when I became a manager. I wanted
to get rid of dress codes. I thought that was
(06:16):
an intimidating factor. Young guys come up, can't afford the
clothes that these other guys could afford, and all of
a sudden. You're supposed to dress in a certain way
to and from the ballpark on airplanes in buses, but
nobody could possibly see you.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And I felt the pressure of having to try to
dress a.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Certain way where I really I mean, I didn't get
a penny raise when I went from the minor leagues
to the big leagues as a coach, and you have
a having a place to live in both California and
in Arizona at the same time, your kids, your family's
back there, so that your money's even divided further and
you can't afford anything. There's all these stressors involved that
(06:53):
nobody ever takes into account. I remember them vividly, man,
and these are the things that are my hang ups.
When I first got to the big leagues as a coach,
and then finally I got to the point and talked
about this the I be longer, I can do this thing.
I talked about the five levels of being a professional,
and even as a young coach I had to get past.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I was happy to be there.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Then I got to survival, which is really crazy, man,
because you're just trying to not upset anybody.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And finally RVE at that point, you see he said, Man,
I could do this.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
The higher up I thought I got, the more confident
I became eventually, because I saw what the competition was
like regarding other people that were trying to do the
same job. I was so all these were contributing factors
regarding keeping you down, and like you're talking about keeping
you down were today you sache in there, man, And
it's completely different the old school methods of like you're saying, acclimatizing,
(07:46):
these guys are breaking them in.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
It no longer exists. And I agree with you. I
never liked it.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
My way of fighting against it was eradicating dress codes.
But they did. They did thwart development. I absolutely believe that.
And I think there's like you just suggested that that's
not a hurdle anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Like it had been.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, no, listen, I saw it, never liked it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I saw Bernie Williams break in with the Yankees and
get hazed by Mill Hall because Bernie was just the
sweetheart of a guy.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
That's what he held against him.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I saw Greg Jefferies get folded into a veterans Mets
team and they sort of rejected him because he was
a guy who would cleaned his bats after every game
with alcohol and make sure there were no marks on it,
and travel in a special case.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
They didn't like that.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Those days are over with as well. They should be
so good riddance to those. Let's talk about the baseball
side of things with Roman Anthony.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Joe. He played four games in the minor leagues this
year in right field.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
He has played only seventeen of his professional games in
right field.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
He's a great athlete.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I'm gonna say he can't play right field, but for
his major league debut, the Red Sox start him in
right field, which is the toughest right field in baseball.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
He did make an error.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
There was a ball hit to him that's kind of
skidded to him and just poor footwork. Really, there's no
other reason, another way to put this. He should have
stopped the ball.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He didn't. It's rare you see a ball get through.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
An out fielder in the major leagues. You know that Joe,
this one got underneath him all the way to the wall.
I would rather see Jaron Durant in right field and
Anthony left field.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
What do you think he had played? Where was his
most of his upbring?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Mostly in left field?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, he can play center too, and he's a good defender,
sure I get it, but I want my better defender,
especially in fenway and right field, and Jared Durant to me,
is the better defender.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
No question I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And the other thing is I mean, you have to
understand on the other side of the field, the ball
reacts completely differently, and you have to, as a former
outfield instructor, to very simply put, whatever side you're on,
always understand one thing. The ball is gonna curve to
the line, whether you're in left field the right field.
It slice from a left, the hook from ariety, and
vice versa. And you have to know that center field
(09:47):
the easiest position to play among the three regarding just
reading balls off the back, because the ball is normally straight,
it may have some carry. Those are the kind of
things that you have to get used to. But on
the corners, ball is gonna sliceer hook depends on the
right your left handed hitter. So your first step always
you have to understand the movement when the ball comes
off the bat. How this thing's gonna like I said,
(10:09):
slice or hook number one. So if you're constantly playing
on the other side of the field, you go to
the other side to the right field side. Now it's
different the reaction to the ball off the bat, and
you got to get used to that. And now it's
not rocket science. I understand that, but it's different. And
so I'm sure he's as good as you were talking about,
and I absolutely believe that he'll get over that. But
(10:30):
in the beginning, it's weird. And whether it's a guy
going from short to second base, third base to second base, whatever,
the game presents differently, and when it presents differently, your
mind look looks at it differently and it takes a
little bit of adjustment period. So yeah, right field, Fenway,
you want your best defender. Although they're probably maybe they
(10:50):
were worried about the left field wall, maybe it was
analytically conspired based on their lineup, but where the ball
may be hit.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I know when we.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Played the Pirates in Pittsburgh in some formidable years, we
put Schoreburn right a postal left because of the size
and the girth of left field and Pittsburgh. So I've
done that before based on the field and competency of
the outfield that moving them back and forth. But like
you said, he'll get it, but it's completely different coming
(11:17):
off the bat.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, I just don't like the idea.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You only had him four games in Triple A this
year at right field, and now it's you know, he's
out there before his major league debut taking balls in
that right field corner at Fenway Park.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Just one more thing to add to his day. That
didn't love that.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Now in the box, his setup reminds me a lot
of Christian Yelich and show Hey o Tani.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
He's very erect. He's got his hands held high.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It looks to me Joe like he's guy. He's gonna
he's just gonna.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Murder the ball up like show Hey. The way to
get him out is going to be soft down. That's
what I see from him.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I look at his.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Load and show Hey and yellis a little bit shorter
with the load. Roman brings his hands down a little
bit and has them a little bit behind them, whereas
show Hey and Yelly are not going to take their
hands behind them where they disappear behind the back. Not
a big deal. This guy can absolutely match the ball.
He'd a line drive last night one hundred and eleven
(12:12):
miles per hour. The Red Sox team this year has
hit only twenty balls one hundred and eleven miles per hour.
Hit a home run on Triple A eight one hundred
and fifteen miles per hour. Average Eason Bila was ninety five.
This guy has got real, real power, and I guarantee
you he's going to hit the ball up in the
strike zone. And that's the other thing, Joe and I
(12:35):
forget who the batter was, but I remember somebody came
up to the major leagues with the Cubs from the
minor leagues who was a dead fastball hitter. Immediately they
fed him nothing but breaking stuff. You know, the old
days of you know, let's see if this guy can
hit major league velocity.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Gone.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
You talk about respect. The Rays last night, through Roman
Anthony eighteen pitches, they threw him only three fastballs in
the zone fifty five percent of the pitches they threw
this kid making his major league debut, or spin fifty
five percent, And to his crew it he only chased
two pitches. Both were fastballs that were actually just borderline fastballs,
(13:08):
really not bad, so really good to swing decisions. But
the respect Tampa Bay showed this kid tells you the
world of information. Yes, it's in the minor leagues. Everybody's
got the info and the respect for this kid. It
was obvious in day one of the big leagues that
was Robel.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Robel Robel? Was it Robel Garcia?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yes, exactly right. I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Kid steps in and they're spinning the ball, spit of
the ball, spit of the ball.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I had been alerted to that he had been playing
in Italy, and I'll tell you what, he had a
couple home runs on fastballs. Their suckers are still going.
But he comes up and his first at bat was,
like you said, nothing but breaking balls. Items to be
at least I would say weeks or maybe a month
of a period in time when the guy gets called up,
that at least he could feast on a pitch that
he likes. Because the scott and report hasn't caught up yet.
(13:54):
But these Scotty reports precede these guys as they get there.
That's right, That's exactly what's going to happen. That is
the world that we live in. And those are the
adjustments these guys have to make right out of the
right out of the womb. Because again, it normally took
some time for people to catch up but they're caught
up the moment these guys land on the Fenway Park field.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Here's the other thing, Joe, this is a managerial check,
and I really want interested in your opinion. Of course,
you know these managers have more information than we do.
Let's start with that. We know that, not second guessing
Alex Corey here. I'm just I want to talk through
the options here. You're batting this kid fifth for his
major league debut.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That alone tells you how much confidence you have with
this kid.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
We get to the eleventh inning, the Red Sox are
down two runs. You have the automatic runner on second base,
and there's a left handed pitcher on the mound. Alex
core A pinch hits for Roman Anthony with Rob Refsnyder.
Now ref Snyder is in the big leagues because he
hits left handed pitching. He's lugging over five hundred against them.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
The pitcher on the mound, the lefty, was Ian Seymour,
who was making his major league debut. In other words,
a couple of days ago, he was in the minor
leagues with Roman Anthony.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I understand.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You know you're looking the juice of ball over the
wall there tied game, and Rob Refsneider did get a
walk out on base, so now you've got the time
runs on base. I just don't like the idea. I've
got my fifth place hitter making his major league debut.
I never want him looking over his shoulder late in
the game to see if the manager has confidence in
(15:21):
me against the lefty, and I'll go back to I
saw Rafael Devers in the fifteenth game he ever played
in the big leagues at the age of twenty, stepped
in in the ninth inning, down one run against a
Roldis Chapman, took the bat and hit a home run
off a pitch that was one oh two point eight
miles per hour. Rafael Devers never looked over his shoulder.
(15:43):
I just don't like the idea for the top prospect.
I'm gonna say any young prospect of saying it's all right,
we're gonna have the right to take this at bat
for you.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
What do you think, yeah, mud, Yes, I mean listen,
I don't second guess guys. There's always reasons apparently, but
no way, I'm thinking that's like Longo comes up, I'm
gonna pinch it for Longo late in the ball game
with the Rays back in oakb comes up first couple
at bats, I'm going to pitch it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
For KB plate in the game. You don't do it.
You just don't do it.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I mean, that's the I think the potential negative effects
are greater than the positives. Rest night are walking whatever.
But this guy's got to know that. You believe he's
a guy, he got his back, he's there for he's
there for a reason.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
My god, I don't know. I don't I don't get
that one.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Quite frankly, I could say with the assuredness I would
never have done that, because it's just the negative components
of that really exponentially outweigh what's going to happen positively
in that one particular game.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I don't know this kid. He's probably pretty tough.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I would imagine this, But maybe there was a conversation
with the batting instructor. I'm sure the batting coach with
this kid after as the as refsnyders going up to
the plate, this conversation is taking place.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
But yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't see
the positive there at all.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
By the way, he hit three sixty seven against lefties
and the miners.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, well he's gonna do that. I mean, listen, it's
it doesn't not even knowing that. I mean when you
pet when you have left these like that minor league
development wise and coming up. He's a guy exactly, and
I would like, you know, I'm when I said, run
the minor leagues. There's no way I would permit one
of my managers to pinch it for a guy like that.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I had.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
This was like that early on with Jimmy Edmonds Jarff Phillips,
two good leftenant hitters.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Both maybe to the big leagues.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Of course, everybody remembers Jimmy, and even to the point
where one of my managers wanted a bat him lower
in the batting order they were struggling. I said, no,
we're not doing that. We're not going to put Jimmy
eighth or ninth or seventh. And the same thing with
Charlie Phillips j R. Ain't happening. That's not where they're
going to hit. I don't want their confidence shattered they're
at all, especially on the minor league level.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
So even came down to that for me, I did not.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Want the better players left on left uh put down
there now I didn't mind obviously back then, even you know,
if the guys the stuff, you know, organizational kind of
guy and you're trying to win the game. And that
was the other thing I took the wraps off them
in August, last month of the season, where I would say,
go ahead and try to win the game. You know,
you don't have to play as much for development. But
there was certain untouchables, and it just like I said, psychologically,
(18:17):
the devastation to that guy could be a lot more
greater than just an out or losing a minor league
baseball game. And in this situation, we'll see it plays
out over the next week or so. I bet she
doesn't do it again. That'd be my bet.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, And listen, everything that I've heard about this kid,
the character is off the charts.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I mean, he's very composed.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
We saw that, as we mentioned in his comfort level,
his swing decisions, everything, body language.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Last night. I wouldn't worry about what it does to him.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I just think sometimes chasing those incremental edges strategically within
a game, you've got to look beyond that and just
messaging to your top prospect, the top prospect in baseball
in that case, to me is more important.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Well, it's also going to create some kind of a
little bit of a conversation within the clubhouse, one of
those like little innuendo field conversations that you don't need,
especially with the fact that the Red Sox are like struggling.
To Ben, I would almost believe that part of the
decision making right there was the fact that they're sub
five hundred right now. There's there's a lot of little
things items going on within that decision making, but the
(19:17):
conversation created from that moment within the clubhouse is never good.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
By the way, this weekend at the Fens, it is Yankees,
Red Sox, the Roman Empire against the evil Empire.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
That will be his wealth, the big league moment.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I love that. That's great.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Hey, when we come back, we need to talk about
Paul Skeins.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Is he the greatest pitching phenom of all time? Stick
around for that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I'm just amazed
(19:59):
by Paul Skeins.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I mean, you've seen a lot of great.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Pictures break into the big leagues, and you're and I
never saw anyone better coming out.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Of the Gate than Dwight Gooden.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Dwight Gooden was the best pitching phenom I ever saw,
and he was doing it at twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I mean, he was just two pitch guy, fastball, curveball.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
He overwhelmed major league hitters like nobody that I saw.
So I have a hard time thinking that Paul Skeens
or anybody is a better phenom than Dwight Gooden. Now,
you can go Fernando Valenzuela, you can go Mark Fidgritch,
you can go Steven Strasburg, the whole litany.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
We all know the names. But I will tell you this.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
About Paul Skeens in his first thirty seven starts. It's
all we have to go by right now, just thirty
seven starts. He's a year and a month into his
major league career. He has the lowest ERA of any
pitcher in his first thirty seven starts, one point nine
to three. He has the second highest strikeout rate of
any pitcher in his first thirty seven starts. Only Steven
(21:00):
Strasburg had a higher strikeout rate, and Strawburg already had
blown out by the time he.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Made twelve starts in the big leagues.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So when I watch him pitch, Joe, We're talking about
a guy with seven pitches.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
He throws his basketball in ninety eight.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
He has seven pitches and six of them are positive
run value.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
They're elite pitches.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And right now, if you look at how pitching isn't
the big leagues, and I always call this the three s's,
it's shaping, it's sequencing, and it's spin, there's nobody doing
it better than Paul Skean's.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Now you can give me Trek School, Well, I get it.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I wouldn't argue that, you know, this guy's right there,
but no one's better right now than Paul Skeen. So
I do think in a thirty seven game sample size,
Paul Skeenes is the best pitching phenom.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Ever, what do you think hard argue?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Right? I mean, the numbers support all of that. I
watch him.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
I mean, first of all, you know, the physical size,
the deception, and his delivery. You know, I was concerned
about the ways arm kind of worked when I first
saw it, and then the fact that he throws like
the split kind of a pitch where he splits his
fingers a lot. All those things always bothered me with
the young pitcher. But it just seems like he's on
a different level strength wise, and the flexibility and the
way he developed all this coming up through the collegiate
(22:17):
ranks to get to the Major League's professional baseball and
the major leagues. He's a different animal. I cannot disagree
with that. I probably need to watch him a little
bit more steadily often. However, this stuff is oppressive. It's
just all like you said, And I was concerned that
he's like adding too many ingredients in the mix with
all these different pitches, and how that would because sometimes
(22:39):
as you're throwing another pitcher and newer pitch, that something
else that you do really well suffers. And I always
was concerned about that when guys would want to do that.
Pictures I had, especially with the Rays. But however, obviously
he can do it. I mean, the guy just manipulates
the ball so well. You Darbish does that really well,
Shoiotani does that really well. These guys you could just
(22:59):
give them a pitch before the game. I swear I
saw it, and they take it into the game, and
it's just that's as an additive, like walking out through
the bullpen. The time that Darbish picked up Kyle Hendrick's
changeup and then he brings it into the game. I
was like staggering to watch this whole thing. Certain guys
just have this different feel and it's all about feel.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I mean, you get information, you do mechanics.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
You think things through, but feel, to me is the
ultimate reason why somebody's outstanding what they do. They just
feel something and they're able to replicate it, repeat it
more constantly than those that are pedestrian like myself. I mean,
feel is what makes the world go around, I believe.
So he's got this incredible feel for what he does,
(23:42):
and then I think his workout with team being as
unique as it is, he's built up this this method
within his body that he's Like I said, there's a
deception about it, but there's also a repeatability about it.
And then this is innate feel for manipulating the ball
by his fingertips. Really interesting to watch. Everybody wants one
of those not easy to find.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
You mentioned you Darvish, and as you said that, I
thought about David Cohne, Mike Mussina, two guys who literally
El Duque Orlando Hernandez. They could almost invent pitches on
the mound as they're going through the game.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
As you said, the key there is feel. So Skeens
is a guy.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
He is a physical beast, right, I mean it's he's
built to pitch deep into games and he's doing that
now with the governors off this year as opposed to
last year. But he also has tremendous feel. I mean,
the art of pitching, it doesn't get any better than
what he's doing right now. You did mention, you know,
the way he was kind of tinkering with some pitches.
You know, spring training he sort of experimented with the cutter.
(24:39):
That was one of his projects. I haven't seen them
throw the cutter this year, which I'm happy about.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
He doesn't need that pitch.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
What he has added, though, is the two seamer, and
it is just remarkable to watch Paul Skeen's carve up
right handed hitters. Now, he's got a four steam fastball
I mentioned at ninety eight that has carry at the
top of his own. He's got that splinker, which is
really a combination of a sinker and a split where
he does split the fingers where that ball and he
(25:07):
loves to throw it inside the Rady's drops so it
goes below the barrel of the hitter. And now he's
got the two seamer that runs in on the right
handed hitter's hands. Now think about that, we're only talking
about pretty much fastballs here. All these pitches are between
ninety three and ninety eight miles an hour. So he's
got the four steamer elevated with ride, he's got the
(25:28):
splinker down that drops, and he's got the two seamer
that runs in on the hands. There's no way a
hitter can cover all those things. And we haven't even
got to his breaking stuff yet. So I just think
that Paul Skeens is on a different level than everybody
else in terms of his ability to put people away.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I mean, he.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Literally has strikeouts on seven different pitches this year. There's
just too much to cover well completely. You have to
honor the ninety eight miles per hour. He's fun to
watch pitch because he's always thinking out there, it's not here,
it is hit it. He forces swing decisions because he
does not spray the ball. His misses are almost always
(26:08):
good misses. There's almost nothing you can rule out out
of the hand as being non competitive.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Just to get a chance anytime.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
This guy pitches for me, it's it's musty because it's
it's pitching.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's not just power, it's not just below.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Agreed, and you kind of touched on it the wanting
to an ability to pitch inside in general, What does
his numbers look like against lefties on the inner part
of the plate.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Do you have that information?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Uh, that's where he goes a lot with the four
steamers up and end.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Okay to the lefty.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
He's got the slider once in a while, throw there,
but curveball is just okay, that's probably his seventh pitch.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Doesn't show that a lot. That's more of it just
to can get me over once in a while.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
But I'd have to dive into specifically what the average Listen,
nobody hits Paul Skins like everything against Paul Skins, the
numbers are low, so you're looking at any kind of vulnerability.
And the split splinker he generally keeps the same on
arm side the entire time.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Whether it's right he's or lefties. So that's a good
pitch against lefties.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
To exactly the down and way. I'm just curious because
you're he's just dominating the inner part of the plate
against the rightings. I mean the two seamer or this.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's a lot like Zach Wheeler doing it.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, I love that stuff. I love pitches underneath.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
James Shields, Alex Cobb, Kyle Hendrix, all these really good
change up guys, not splinkers, whatever, but guys that could
dive balls underneath.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Righty's.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Part of the thing is as a right handed hitter,
it's a little bit different now maybe, but predominantly you're
really like more of a flat swing inside the ball
kind of a swing. And whenever you had a flat
swing underneath, this really good place to go. So that
would be a lefty slider breaking ball at the back
foot of a righty or a right hander that's willing
to throw that change up or a sinker down and
down underneath.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
That's why guys they hate that pitch.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
They're going if they hit it, it's going to be
off their shin or they're there their big tone on
the left foot. I mean, it's an uncomfortable at bat
when you get guys, lot of guys power guys sometimes
and they're not willing to throw inside.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
At least a.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Hitter is willing to and can look more away, which
helps him a little bit. But when you're when you're
able to pound that inner edge of the plate, it
opens up so much. And so again, you're right, he's
a thinking kind of a guy. Is not just a thrower.
He has ability to pitch with all kinds of magnificent weapons.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, keep an eye on now.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I'm just looking up the numbers here, Joe against lefties
on pitches away outer half of the plate one eighty
on pitchers inner half of the plate one ninety.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, he just covers every quadrant in every shape. Yeah,
I mean, it's just he's a nightmare for me to watch.
I used to think Pedro Martinez had the best put
away stuff I ever had, because he had three elite
pitches that he would throw with equal confidence with skeins.
It's just you never know what's coming.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I'm gonna make sure I watch his next start. I'll
check it. Do you know when he's starting again? Is it? Well?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
He pitched Sunday and generally they're gonna keep him on
the sixth day, so it should be coming up this
weekend of Friday.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Okay, yep, check, I'm gonna check it out.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And speaking we mentioned we're talking about the best of
the best and here the best team in baseball.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Maybe we put that in quotes the La Dot.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I'm on your take on the Dodgers, Joe, because I'm
not impressed. Listen, they're a good team. Don't get me wrong,
Dodgers are one of the best teams. I'd still think
they're the favorites to win the World Series. But they're
not the juggernaut that we thought we were going to
see this year, right. I mean, obviously a big part
of that is injuries. The Dodgers have run through thirty
pitchers to cover sixty seven games. I mean, that's just ridiculous.
(29:30):
Give me your take on the Dodgers and what you
see here. It's hard, I understand to evaluate them because
they're working through so many injuries. Offense is carrying this team.
They're scoring more runs per game than any team in baseball.
But give me your kind of thirty thousand foot view
here on the La Dodgers and where they're at.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
You know, the fact that they did last year, all
the preseason hype about them, there's a certain little hangover
that they're still experiencing. In general terms, however, it's been
exacerbated by the pitching the pitching. I think if they
have their regular guys out there all the time, well healthy,
you would see a more dominant for foremans on their
on their side if they're scoring that many points.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
They're pitching has been I watched once in a while.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
You know, Gonsolin looks just stillkaman uh Snell being out,
all these guys being hurt, it's different. They just don't
have their regular guys out there, and you have to God,
I can't even imagine spreading that many pitchers out over
this part of the season, this this early this season,
have that many guys towing a rubber for you. That's
that's a difficult concept of thoughts. So I think part
(30:31):
of it is that the fact that they the hype
and what they had done last year, all that stuff.
The other part is everybody's shooting for them. I mean,
you come in to play the Dodgers. I mean, the
Angel swept them this year and that's like unheard of
at any time.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But they came in a sweep them.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
So there's there's there's a certain uh like maybe playing
to their level of competition right now, they just haven't like.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Fully engaged overall.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
They will, Like you said, I think they will at
some point right now, but there's a lot of little
like shin kicking kind of things that are going on there,
just keeping them from getting to the point where they
everybody believes that they can be. I think it starts
with the pitching, obviously, and I think again, I know,
if I'm playing the Dodgers right now, I'm definitely gonna
be jacked up about that whole thing and probably going
(31:17):
to play a little bit above my skis because I
want to beat them. You always want to beat the best.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So there's there's a.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Conspiratory thing going on with a lot of different stuff.
But I think there's a hangover component to it.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I do. I've experienced it. I've been part of that.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
And then I think that the pitching is so important
to their success. And then finally, competitively speaking, everybody wants
to beat them.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I love that last point, Joe. We're seeing that with
San Diego. San Diego has been that way for a while,
right The Padres love to look them in the eye.
I mean to borrow from the ads in the back
of the comic books in the old days, they're kicking
sand in their face, where those Charles at let's adds
had some muscle. Yeah, that's the padres man. They're not
intimidated by the Dodgers. You know, it's a great series
(32:01):
every time they play. But I think you're right. Teams,
the Angels or anybody look at the Dodgers right now
and rightfully so say that team is not a juggernaut.
They're gettible. The Dodgers are gettable. And again I'm not
gonna be like they're not a good team. They're a
really good team, but they're not a juggernaut. Let me
just throw some numbers here at you, Joe. We mentioned
the pitching injuries. They're tied with the Marlins for the
(32:25):
fewest innings per start. They get four point seven innings
per start on average. Their starters throw an average of
eighty pitches to start. Only the White Sox at seventy nine,
are out there less than Dodgers starters. They're fifteen and
fifteen in their last thirty games. They are nine and
eleven against left handed pitching. That's certainly something I think
(32:48):
some team in the postseason might be able to exploit.
I'd much rather throw a lefty against the Dodgers. They're
sixteen and fourteen against teams with a winning record. They've
had an easy schedule, that's not a lot of games.
Sixteen and fourteen. The Pirates have as many wins against
winning teams as the Dodgers. Let me say that again,
the Pirates have as many wins against winning teams as
(33:11):
do the La Dodgers. They're also, by the way, the
oldest team in baseball. This is the second oldest Dodger
team in baseball.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
The only older Dodger.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Team the nineteen twenty five Brooklyn Robbins who went sixty
eight and eighty five. So you know, listen, San Diego second,
by the way in terms of the oldest team and
the Phillies or third age.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
What does that mean experience?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, but generally means more susceptible to injuries as well.
I just think again, Joe, I'm not making any final
consensus opinions on whether Dodgers win the World Series or not.
I'm just saying their road to October is going to
be rocky.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
It is rocky. They're not going to run away from
the Padres.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And maybe not even the Giants, but they're they're in
a race that I expect them the win. But this
is not the one hundred and ten wins team. We
thought we were getting.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
The Road's Rocky. How many times have they played the
Rockies this year? I mean, look at that that record
over the right, I mean, that whole n West. I mean,
that's they're all benefiting from that somehow. But to pitch
four point seven eighty pitches per.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Start, that's so hard.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
I mean, I mean, just I'm just thinking about that
on a managerial perspective. I mean, when you have to
when you have to suck up that many bullpen innings
every night and try to piece it together successfully, somebody,
somebody's gonna have a bad night. That's to me. It
starts right there. Obviously, the left handed pitching thing is
a concern.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I agree with you on that.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Then you'd have to like match it up against the
opposition potentially who has good left tennant starters. But those
other teams definitely gonna have to have some lefties coming
out of the bullpen, but left handed starters. Who are
the dominant left handed starters within the National League right now,
et cetera. And how do they match up eventually in
the playoffs against the Dodgers. That would be for me,
the front office I'm sure they're on that right now.
You know the record against winning teams, it's it's really strange, man.
(35:02):
But again, everybody they got a target under back right now,
they've got to target. They're less stand a little bit.
And again based on the typically the Dodgers always known
for their pitching, and they're just they're just they're short
there right now. So there's you're right, there's a lot
of reasons why. You know, the coronation is not the
Dodgers are going to do this. No, there's a lot
of competition out there, and if they don't get their pitching, well,
(35:25):
I don't think it's gonna happen for them.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, I will say, And you know this, and your
team's always played this way, Joe too. They're great finishers.
Know these veteran teams, they know the length of the season.
They know when they have to put the pedal to
the floor, and they do respond that. There's never and
I hate the word panic. Major league players do not panic.
The media just loves to throw that word around.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Well he didn't panic. Well, yeah, no, they don't panic.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
But what I'm saying is the Dodgers have an understanding
of the length of the season. Having gone through it
so many times with its basically same group of guys,
I expect them to play better, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Whether they get fully healthy or not.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Who knows about as like Tyler Glass now Blake Snell,
whether they're coming back. We've seen Clayton Kershaw come back
and the stuff. His last start was actually okay, it
was much better. He finally found some spin on his
breaking ball. But you know, he's sitting at eighty nine ninety.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
He is what he is.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
I don't think you want to rely on him starting
Game one or two in a postseason series, but he's
there to help. So we'll see about the La Dodgers.
I can't say I'm worried Joe. But if I'm the
Padres and you're seeing them right now, you're seeing a
team that's gettable.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah, well, you got the teams within their division, you know,
the Padres of course to what they're doing. Then the Giants,
I mean the Giants have been playing some good baseball too.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Then you go to the other side.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
You got the Mets in the Phillies on the other
coast right now, and there's there's the there's there's a
there's suitors, there there's there's definitely people that are able
to dethron them, and the other teams are really I
hate to use the word hungry, err, but they might be.
You know, they like you said, you suggest that the
Padres the Giants, I know that they got something to
prove there too, and they they're fade now they're back.
(37:02):
I mean, there's there's these other teams out there. They
want that crown and they're they you know, the keep
getting the sad kicked and their faces suggested it earlier.
They're over that. They're all over that, man. So I
think there's plenty of competition right now. And again I
get what you said. I've been a part of that
and I used to really be aware of that. But
(37:23):
the teams that I had is that really be aware
of playing your better baseball in the latter part of
the season. For me, that was resting more guys earlier
in the year. But I don't even know. I just
think that the competition is it's looking kind of equal,
I mean, or even better than for some of these teams.
And so it's just not a lock for the Dodgers.
They do have to get those guys well, but the
(37:43):
other teams are not going to take it anymore kind
of a thing, and I think it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break on the
Book of Joe when we get back.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I can't wait to talk to Joe about this.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
When umpires throw out players and do it very quickly.
I'm sure it's a favorite topic of his and all managers.
We'll dive into that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I'm not sure if you saw the ejection of Nico
Horner the other day that comes infielder was thrown out
by Derek Thomas, the umpire, and man, was it quick.
It was a strike three call, kind of a borderline call.
You know, it happens, player doesn't like it. He turned
around and he said to the umpire you're having a
bad day.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
And boom he was gone like that.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
No profanity, it was all g rated stuff. I mean,
you know, I'm sure you've been through this, Joe. Where
Craig Counsel comes out. Obviously, he's livid because you know,
a manager, what he really wants to do is get
out there quickly enough before things really get heated and
you lose your player, right, It's the one thing managers
never want to lose their player, especially you know, one
(39:01):
of your main guys. He couldn't get out there even
close to being quickly enough. So then counts got run
as well, because you have to at that point. But yeah,
give you your take on that, because first of all,
I love the inventiveness of Nico Horner's saying, man, you're
having a really bad day and then paying the price
for it quickly. I thought it was too quick of
a hook, but you never know what these umpires, what
(39:22):
can trigger them.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
That's so good. That's a Stanford boy right there, Nico.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
So I mean I giggled salad coming from him because
he doesn't say a whole lot. But then when he
does say it, he got right to the point. There
was a time that an up partly kicked Ben Zoeberst
out of the game. It was Phil Couzy, and it
was a pitch that was a bad pitch, and then
Zoe started arguing in his Zoe way, which is very polite,
(39:45):
and eventually he gets kicked out of the game, maybe
not as quickly as Nico, But I told Phil, I said,
you realize you just kicked Ben Zoeberst out of the game.
I said, do understand what that means like in the
afterlife for you? Right now, it's just guys like a
guy like Nico.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
If it's a.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Constant complaint, yeah, maybe you could be a little bit
quicker if the guy's been the player has been on
you for a bit, different series, different times, whatever. I
could see somewhat of a quicker ejection. But Nico, he
doesn't say anything. Zoe never said anything. It's just really you,
these these umpires sometimes like bucking Bob Davidson, he would
(40:23):
just could have just laughed at that. Bob would have
laughed at that. He and I used to laugh at
different things. I told him I loved him. One time
as he was throwing me out, he said, I love
you too, and he kicked me out of the game.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
It's just it could be fun that's that was funny.
Well you just told me there, that was really funny
because Nik was probably right. But sometimes they do.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
I've been very I'm proud of myself in certain ejections,
and when I've done that, I have apologized to the
umpire either that night or the next day. But sometimes
obviously it's it's deserved this one right here, Come on,
just laugh a little bit.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Move on.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I've always found it interesting and obviously you've been a
party to way way more of these things conversations if
you will, then I but it's almost like a part
parlor game, like.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
How far can you go? What?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Well, we'll know the magic words right And as as
you make anything personal, you use that word you, like
you may say the call stunk or you know, choose
your adjective of your choosing, but you can't say you
and making it personal like that you're going to get wrong.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
The right wrong four letter words will get you wrong.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
But did you ever feel that, Joe, Like it's almost
like a parlor game, Like I understand there are sometimes
you want to get thrown out, but like how far
can I go without being thrown out and still making
my point and by the way, putting out a show?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Yeah, you tap dance? You do?
Speaker 4 (41:41):
You definitely tap dance. You don't want to say that
the exact words that you want to you do? You
avoid the word you as much as you possibly can.
I went out to there was I think might have
been a playoff game. Guards is pitching and Gary Shutterstrom
was the Empire at second base and thought it was
a Boki did something.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
It was a call, and I got really upset.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
So I walked out to the mound and I started
screaming at at Garza. I started screaming at him as
though I was talking to cut Strong and so, you know,
you know what you're doing, you stink whatever.
Speaker 5 (42:13):
And eventually Gary figured out what I was doing and
he walked over and he kicks me out because Garza
put his glove up by his face because he started
laughing because of course he knew what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
So I was arguing with Garz is though he was.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
The umpire, and eventually the umpire caught onto and I
was ejected from the game. Deservedly so, but that was
that was one of my more creative moments. I think
in regards to getting ejected.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I'm just trying to picture Garza.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I mean, yeah, that probably was like maybe the slightest
moment of panic where his manager is just dreaming them
out there on the mound till I figure out what
his manager was up to.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
You know, guards had that big old nose, it's like
put it over his the glove over his face. And
he's laughing. All the players are standing there too, and
they got it real quick. And then Gary caught onto
the joke and then I was gone.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Did you ever I'm sure the answer must be yes,
But go out there with the intention of getting run.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
Absolutely. I was in the min leg xit even till
umpires before the game. Joe Burrowson once in Midland, I said, listen, man,
team stinks right now. I'm looking for the first close
call and I'm going to be out there. I'm going
to try to avoid any really bad language, but just
just just get me out of there, kick me out
of there. And I did it once with Teddy Barrett
in Denver. Teddy Barrett nicest human being on Earth, Umpire
(43:32):
good Umpire, a boxer, former Golden Gloves boxer and apprecier.
I actually offered to marry my daughter Sarah when Sarah
got married, but I was up something I'll play in Denver.
This is when the rays of the Devil rays and
I'm out in the mount On'm yelling and here comes
Teddy and I turned on to Teddy.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
You got to throw me out of the game.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
He says, Joe. I don't want to, Teddy. You got
to throw me out of the game, please. I don't
want to start yelling and stuff. So finally I just
said something else and Teddy threw me out of the
game and I left. You know, I did whatever I
had to do. After the game, he's walking out. I'm
on the bus in the first seat. I cannot give
him a big hunt.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I don't thank you a great story. I love that stuff,
great stuff inside the game. Speaking of great stuff, Joe,
you always bring us home with something great.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
What do we got today for our thought of the day?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
I guess it's kind of you know.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
I'm just like, I'm looking at everything that's going on,
and I think I was focusing on the word tradition
and traditions, and I was thinking about that, but then
it worphed into something else for me, because sometimes I
love tradition, but sometimes it can become too static and
we become unwavering with it. But although I do believe
that we get away from them sometimes where there's a foundation, Bill,
(44:44):
I'm you know, thinking about here in Hazelton, my Catholic upbringing,
you know, family and friends, and I'm still looking out
at my golf course where I've played when I was younger,
but it worphed into the word flexibility, and so I traditionally,
I think traditions are you know, foundational, but there also
has to be it's got to be a flexibility because
sometimes they do run their course. But so I went
(45:06):
in with flexibility today and then it was a great line.
And because I've always believed that as a manager, as
a coach, being flexible on a daily basis, whether it's
like in your hitting instruction, like the batting practice, sometimes
there's a machine, sometimes they threw from an angle, sometimes
there was no batting practice. You would bury your methods
(45:29):
on a daily basis, so the unit to become stale.
And John would flexibility is the key to stability. And
I love that because again by remaining flexible and trying
to do the same thing in another way, saying the
same thing in other words kind of like exercises the
mind and it makes it more creative or interesting. So
John Wooden, flexibility is the key to stability. I've read
(45:51):
his books, like, I actually sat up about this. I
sat with coach Woulden't in my office and Anaheim. I
can't remember the year it was. I was a bench coach,
big baseball fan, so he and I said in this
was kind of a conference was my office, and I
sat across the table just he and I for about
half an hour just talking. He loved baseball, so that
was like one of my highlights of my life. And
(46:12):
then just to dovetail edges quickly. But Colin Powell is
another one of my favorites. I read the autobiography. He
always talked about being a force multiplier, and he talked
about allegiance to the leader, the president. We might disagree
with him, but the end of the day is going
to support him. He's got his back. But he said
leaders honor their core values, but are flexible and how
(46:33):
they execute them.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
So I love the word flexibility.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
I know what I know, and I know what I
believe in and we all do, but you still have
to remain flexible in regards to how are you going
to implement this or how we're going to get our
point across. So I don't know, somehow might cover what
we talked about today, but I'm really big on that
word flexibility, and today's just resonated for me.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up John Wooden. Yeah, he
was a huge baseball fan. I got to meet him
once at Angel Stadium. Actually he carried around these cards
with his pyramid success and back in the day he
used to live if they were not next door neighbors,
same neighborhood as Vin Scully. How about that Vin Scully
and John Wooden living next to each other. And it's
(47:16):
just interesting, Joe, that how many times do we come
back to the theme of balance, right, And that's what
you just reminded me. Here this quote from John Wooden
about flexibility and stability.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
It really is about balance.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
We talk a lot here about, you know, sort of
the liberal arts background, balancing the left side of the brain,
the right side of the brain, balancing data and art,
hitting his balance, pitching his balance, and over emphasis on
one thing. Probably not really good. Maybe overemphasizing tradition, maybe
not very good. So I always come back to your
pink flamingo Joe. It's the balance. It's about the balance.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
It is.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
He was the centerpoint of a lot of the art
that I did. I've been a flamingo guy, pink flamingo
guy for long, for many years, but yeah, a balance
in our entire life. And I actually wrote like a
note to my mom back in the nineteen seventy nine
eighty era. I wrote my mom a note, and I
wish I could find it immediately, But it was about
balance in life, and I wanted her to know how
(48:14):
much I appreciated her and and the balance that she
created within our lives.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
It's overlooked. I mean, we become so polar.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
We think we're always so right and unable to listen
to the other side. And compromise is a really important word.
So all this stuff is always at the forefront of
my mind. And so but I do love the word
being flexible.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
That was actually two quotes of the day. So you're
gonna spoil us, Joe. We're gonna expect us every time.
Two really good ones from John Wooden and Colinwe those guys.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Thanks for that. We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
See it Tommy, Thanks buddy.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
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