October 18, 2023 • 34 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, Dr. Myron Rolle, former Florida State football star turned neurosurgeon shares his incredible story of how he traded in his jersey and pads for surgical gowns. Dr. Rolle's dedication, determination, preparedness, and adaptability forged on the football field have primed him to successfully transition from a professional football career to a career in medicine.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome into a breakable mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
I am Jay Glazer, and I got a great guest today,
somebody I've been wanting to meet for a long time,
someone I have so much respect for in so many
different ways. And before I get to him, if you
are like many people, you may be surprised to learn
that one in five adults in this country experienced mental
illness last year, yet far too many fail to receive
(00:36):
the support they need. Carolyn, Behavioral Health is doing something
about it. They understand that behavioral health is a key
part of whole health, delivering compassionate care that treats physical, mental, emotional,
and social needs in tandem. Carolyn behavioral health raising the
quality of life, empathy and action. I think the perfect
guests coming on today because we talk a lot of
(00:57):
mental health here. We certainly try to get men to
open up to each other a lot more man. You
guys also know that I do a lot to help
out former athletes, former professional football players, and fighters when
their uniform comes off to do something that next step.
This man is taking that step to a totally different
level than everybody else that we've dealt with before. It
is doctor Meyer Roll, former FSU, former Tennessee Titan, former
(01:21):
Pittsburgh Steel Are correct, that's right, also Oxford and now
working at Harvard. It's incredible. You know what you've been
able to do.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I know you.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I am in the presence of someone I really admire her.
So I appreciate you joining me.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Thanks. I appreciate it. And we've talked about off air
watch you for a very long time and then obviously
really impressed with your career and everything that you've been
able to do. The way you, you know, stand up
for players and advocate for them, and the way you
deliver your messages on TV and to us listeners. It's
a lot. So we appreciate you for sure.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think we're kind of all in it together. You know,
when I first started this business, people use their pen
as a weapon. And I walked in the locker room
in nineteen ninety three and I said, man, I don't
have the education these other reporters, I don't have the experience.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I was better looking of.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Course, but you know, I don't have everything else, But
you know, how can I be different? A lot of
people I think are afraid to be different. I said, well,
you know, I'm not going to use my bet as
a weapon I think they are. I'm going to start
relationships and I got killed for it for a while,
but man, we're all in this together.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
And for me, for my own.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Mental health issues, I'm always talking about building teams. I
need teams around me, And even though these are guys
I was covering, they became a team for me that
helped me through some of the darkest times of my life.
So I think that's why, you know, I've come off
like that, and eventually that became how everybody has to
do in the business. It's all relationship based business now.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
So I want to kind of go back early for you.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
When did you realize that you were different than everybody else?
Did you accept your brilliance if I could say, or
did you hide it? Grown up?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, it's a great question, you know, growing up. I
grew up in South Jersey, near Atlantic City. We left
the Bahamas, you know, when I was around three years old,
and my daddy got a job up in New York
and we had some family who had attended Richard Stockton
State College right near Galloway Township. So we just settled
there and my parents really focused on education coming from
(03:14):
another country, realizing that America had no ceiling on our growth.
If we wanted to be good citizens, good leaders, good Christians,
good thinkers, that we could really accomplish some really strong
things in this country. Not to say the Bahamas was
under civil unrest or war torn, but there was just
resources here for us if we wanted to be great
and go far. And football is one of those resources,
(03:35):
and the coaching of football was one of those resources.
You know, playing in the band and being an habitat
free humanity, doing all these things, I really just started
to sort of encapsulate in my mind that, you know,
there are opportunities that exist for people like me, you know,
young black, you know, kid of two parents, immigrant parents,
(03:58):
four older brothers that can come and do something big
in this country. And I think when I started to
have success at each of those stations of my life,
whether it be in the community doing philanthropic work, or
whether it be on the football field running past people
and scoring touchdowns, or whether it be in a classroom
getting straight a's, I said, okay, you know I'm built
a little different. My parents have invested a lot in me,
(04:20):
and they keep promoting. You know that I'm still worthy
of success in this community, in this environment, despite our differences.
That belief from my parents and my older brothers really
gave me the assurance that you know, I am different.
I can do good. I can use this great platform
that we have in the US, coming from a smaller country,
(04:42):
to go far, reach my own dreams and help people
along the way.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So as you're grown up in your real life, man,
I could really do something great. But between my years
and I could do something great on the football field.
Did you have dual dreams or do you have one
over the other.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I think it was dual. It really was, And I
realized that it was that way because again, you know,
I give love to Whitney and Beverly. My parents, they
would change the rewards for my academic success first my
athletic success. So I loved getting straight a's in class.
I loved turning my assignments in on time, and you know,
answering the questions first and doing all those sorts of things.
(05:17):
And I would get huge pizza pies from this Giovanni's
Pizza shop, Italian shop in Gallery, New Jersey. Every time
I came home with straight a's and I was like, nice,
and my older.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
What you're saying?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I like this though, And the great thing about it
exact that I have four very hungry, big older brothers
who would often take my food when I was younger.
And then my parents said, you cannot take Myron's food
when we give him this incentive. So I got to
eat it all by myself. That was wonderful. And then
with football, if I scored three touchdowns it felt good.
(05:52):
I was like, oh man, this is amazing. I'm running
past these guys, running them over, and then my parents
are getting be patter on the back like okay, good job.
I'm like, well, where's my pizza pie for athletic accomplishments.
But I loved football. I loved how it fed to
my competitiveness in the classroom. And I used both of
those roads as sort of like in a symbiotic, sort
of synergistic relationship that if I compete, I'm competing like
(06:15):
myyern roll on the field and in the classroom. And
that drive to want to be the best didn't really
stop once I took my helmet off. So to answer
your question, they were dual paths, and I always sort of,
you know, saw myself as a student athlete and had
good balance between both lives. For sure, it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Sounds to me like they were driving you on the
the academic side, because it's you know, it's probably harder
for a kid to dream about, Oh, I'm gonna go
off and be a rocket scientist than it is to
be a professional athlete.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Who did you hang out with?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Did you hang out with the jocks or did you
hang out with the smart kids.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You know, it's a good question. I hung out with
mostly the jocks, but I was so I was easily
accepted into the drama kids because I played ten and
fidl on the roof as a white Russian Jewish milkman
with five white daughters. Really, oh yeah, if I were
a rich man, I was singing out dancing people. I
(07:12):
loved it, man, it was great. So I was hanging
with the drama kids, and then I played the baritone saxophone,
So I hung out with the band kids a little bit.
But my boys like close, close boys. Even to this day.
He was my best man at my wedding were the jocks,
the football players. We just we just vibed really well
and we had a good time. So yeah, no, it
was nice. I definitely had a very diverse friend grouping
(07:34):
when I was younger, and I think that's helped me
be a better leader and a better physician today, take
care of patients who come from different parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Hey, you know, and I love that you could bring
this also into what you do your metical professional now,
because locker room football locker room is beautiful place, and
it's right. It's the only place you could have some fat,
white racist lineman being the best man at a young
fuck black Ey's wedding, go with he cares right, you're
fighting from top two seconds as long as you can
go laugh together.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
It's all love.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
There's nothing but love in that place, right, And then
if the rest of the world acted like we did
an NFL locker.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Room, we wouldn't be fighting so much. Man, you are
absolutely correct. You know, people ask me on time, doctor Roll,
what do you miss about football? Do you miss playing?
I'm like, yeah, I missed a little bit, but I
missed the locker room, man, I miss the fights. That
were fun in jovial. I missed the bets that people
would place on the miss things. This is what I
missed to Jay, And I'm sure you had this experience
(08:27):
too when you were in there. But you know, when
we would fly to games, it was like a fashion show.
And you know, I'm a six round pick. I don't
have the kind of money that Chris Johnson or Vince
Young has. So I'm walking in there with like regular
Polo on or whatever. These guys are Gucci, Louie, Fendi, Prada,
and they're like, oh, ro you gotta take that off, roll,
you gotta take that off. I'm like, hey, man, this
(08:47):
is the best I can do joke and it was
just it was so fun. It was great. We loved it. Man,
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
And that's a fun team to be around too. I
tell you a quick one here. I was so.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I started out first mixed more Lark's training program for
pro athletes. They opened up a gym here called Unbreakable,
and Chris Johnson came in. His kind of career was
going down and came in and man, he's going home
one week And I say, hey, Chris, man, don't go
home doing favor like, you're doing great here, you know,
because I said, Chris, I thought, Chris, once you got
your money, you started looking for the home run every
(09:18):
play instead of just like hitting that hole. You started
looking So the man, we're gonna kind of give you
this fighter mentality where every single time you're swinging away,
swinging away, going.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
For that knockout.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Right, it's just a mentality. So Chris goes home, he
ends up getting shot, and you know it's a terrible incident.
Right two weeks later he got a sling on and uh,
he walks in the gym. Obviously, Man, I'm so happy
you see him. I love Chris Johnson. Dude, Matt, come
give him big hope. So glad man, you came back
out and see us. We could see it. You're okay.
And he goes and he gets changed. I said, what
(09:47):
are you doing against? I want to hear a training?
So what do you mean here a train? He goes,
we'll train around it. I said, you got a bullet
in your shoulder. He goes, yeah, well we'll train around it.
I said, Chris, you have a bullet in your shoulder.
He goes, Jake, ladies, just figuring your way out. So
I had to Chris with a bullet in his shoulder
and train them all the way back and ended up
(10:08):
getting them signed two hours on our Cardinals after that,
and he was I think he was thin. He was
come back Player of the Year. But that was the
first for me to have to trade. Now, listen, when
you're hanging the fight community, you hang out with a
bunch of crazy people. But this was still first for
me to trade a guy with a bullet and his
shoulder and and get him through.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Man. But that was a man. That was wild. That
was a that was a wild time. That was a
fun must have been a fun team to be around.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
That was a lot of fun. And CJ, you know
he uh he took care of me too because we
trained in Orlando together where he's from, uh the wild
Ward Sports at Disney And so when I got up
to Tennessee, I got drafted. You know, he called me
immediately said I got you. So that's another beautiful thing
about the locker room. You know, you had these guys
who just want to put their arms around you and
make sure you're doing the right thing and teach you
the right ways on how to be a pro, how
(10:49):
to protect the shield, how to keep your body right,
how to stay away from trouble, how to manage your money.
You know how to know where the pitfalls are because
you come in from and you know this jam, I mean,
come in from eating waffle house as a junior at
Florida State University in Tallahassee, Florida. Then you got the
money to buy Ruth Chris whenever you want uh and
fly different people in or give somebody a little loan
(11:12):
because they helped you out in the Bahamas when you
were younger or something, or in New Jersey. And what
can you do? You know, how can we how can
we keep ourselves alive? And how can we you know,
keep the main thing the main thing and focus on
the game. So Chris was helpful for that. Definitely a
fun team. Love playing there and it was awesome.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
So now as your your career goes on and you
played for.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
You played for four years three just three three years?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Correct? Don't say just three three is good? Three is
more than the rest of the world. And it's what
I get on guys. But there's all time and say
I just did this, No man, you and this is
why I started this foundation. MVP e merging bets of
players to help football players and fighters and veterans when
they when the uniform comes off in transition, a lot
of times guys are gonna put down what they've done. Man,
you playing in the NFL, myron is not who you
(11:57):
are and what's behind your ribcage that.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Got you to beat out millions and millions and millions.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
To play on that level. That's who you are. Whether
it's one game or a thousand games, it doesn't matter.
That makes you different. And that's what people forget a
lot of times. So whenever it's I don't ever want
you to say only three again, Right, I played three
years in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
You know, I'm not trying to school the doctor here,
but I'm schooling the doctor here.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I'm a lifelong learner. I appreciate that, right.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I want you to have some pride that you play
in the NFL. Man, That is that makes you fucking
different than everybody else on the planet, every room you
walk into forever, and nobody could ever take that away
from you.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So when you did leave after year three, was it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
A difficult transition or did you already know Okay, I'm
gonna go you no go to medicine, and I have
my next purpose was there at that time.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
The difficult time in between.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
It was definitely difficult. Even though I had the road
ready to go, Even though I was reading medical journals
and you know, preparing for the MCAT, you know, the
interest examine too, medical school, I was thinking about the transition.
I still felt that I you know, I was young.
I was twenty five years old, twenty six, and football
had informed my entire life up to that point, and
(13:05):
my friendships, my lifestyle, my sleeping habits, my eating habits,
I mean even my wardrobe. I dressed like a player,
I walk like a player. I wore slides everywhere because
I wanted to keep my feet right. I was getting
massages and doing all the things that you would do
on a day to day basis. I would wake up
thinking about football. Now, when that's over and you transition
to your next chapter of your life, it's like, man,
(13:27):
well where do I fill this void? And so for me,
it took me a couple of days, actually a couple
of weeks of just being in my parents' home. And
this sounds, you know, maybe a little bit of a regression,
but I look at it as going to where you
protected your refuge. I went to my parents home. I
ate my favorite peas and rice and crack cunk my,
you know, our Bahamian dish. My mommy and daddy would
(13:49):
just sort of pray for me and just look after
me and make sure I was okay. And then when
I got out of that sort of moment of lamentation,
I said, Okay, now it's time for me to shrug
this off and get going. And actually my mother came
into my room and said, you know, you had a
couple of things written down on the list when you
were younger of what you wanted to be Rhodes scholar,
NFL player, brain surgeon. You crossed off these first two.
(14:10):
The second one is done. Football is over. Now now
it's time to get this third one done. And I
think you're the man for the job. And when when
we said that to me, that was like the words
I need to hear to say, pick yourself up, don't
say what was me. Get into the books and be
the best brain surgeon that you possibly be, because the
next chapter of your life will have value, will have meaning,
(14:31):
and use what football taught you to be a better physician,
to be a better neurosurgeon. And thankfully I've been able
to do that. So that's kind of how I shook
it off, and you know, dove straight into this career
that I'm currently in and I've enjoyed it ever since.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Her. REMEMBERDS once told those Buccaneers players say, hey, football
is an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
It's an opportunity and you could use a lot of
things that you learned football your next step of life.
But if we just hold on for like man, I
just lost that forever. That's a difficult place for guys
to get out of it. And I understand it because also,
like football is different than other sports, Like if you
play basketball, you retire, you can shoot, you know, on
black top of your boys forever.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
You play hockey, you still skate around with your boys,
you play baseball. You're done with football. It's done.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
It's over.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
There's no more, there's no You're not gonna go out
play two un in touch. For you buddies, it's over.
And that's that's hard. That's a really difficult.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Thing for a lot of guys.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, it is, absolutely it is. And you know when
I tell people of this story, I say, you know,
for someone who had to plan one B or one A,
whatever you want to call it, like myself. Even for me,
it was hard to leave. So I can imagine guys
who may have put a lot into football and not
really paid much attention or given a priority to what
(15:46):
the next chapter of their life may look like. Those
individuals sometimes are susceptible to spiraling and need as much
support to butcher them forward and keep them afloating, and
to tell them that your worth is not defined by
the helmets of shoda pads and the stats you had
on the field, tuly defined by the type of man
and character you have, and a difference you can make
with the abilities that you've been able to accrue over
(16:06):
your lifetime. Don't lose it when I think about you know,
the people who want to employ leaders, they look for
people with discipline, focus, hard work, communication skills, teamwork, ability,
overcoming adversity, mitigating pressure, knowing how to be coached. That's
everything we've done as athletes our entire life. You can
translate those same characteristics to medicine like me, education, law enforcement, business,
(16:28):
whatever it is. There is a shot for you out there,
and so I think you know it makes sense. I
know you're you know, you're preach the same message. Jay,
What were you when you went to medicine were you
looking for?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I guess a locker room and they're a different type
of locker room, and how you know, you know again
it's we need this team right to help us between
our yours a lot. How different or are there any
similarities from that kind of locker room to locker room
from football?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, I definitely was looking for that sort of camaraderie
and I found it in my my Harvard residency program
up here in Boston, mass General Hospital. It's you know,
there are over one hundred residency programs around the country,
and you know, I was interviewed at all of them.
Johns Hopkins, University of California, San Francisco, Yale, you know,
Penn everywhere, Miami, Vanderbilt. But I liked Harvard because the residents,
(17:18):
you know, were cohesive. They after the surgeries, they would
go and get some food at a local restaurant and
talk about life. And they can have discussions about you know,
pituitary autonomas and how it's affecting the hormonal distribution to
this patient. But then the next second they could talk
about you know, jay Z and Beyonce's newest tour that
(17:39):
are doing. I'm like, okay, you know, I like the balance.
I like to be able to do a little both
because I never wanted to ever jay be defined in
a box as just a brain surgeon or just a
football player. I always wanted to be a human that
could intersect with other people because as much as I
love this field of neurosurgery, you know, in order to
one communicate with patients, but also to bring neuse surgery
(18:00):
to the mainstream and try to bring other people into
what we do, uh as far as policy, as far
as prevention, you have to be able to communicate with
these individuals. And and I loved it. I love the
sort of cohesiveness of this program here in Harvard. I
found it here and it's been it's been great.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I mean, ask you, I think it's a difficult one,
but you I want to get a deeper as I
can with you here. I don't know if there's a
training for this. When you have a patient that comes
in and you know they're not going to make it,
and you've got to tell them they're not going to
make it, Like.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
How do you how do you train for that? How
do you prepare for that? Does it? Does it ever
get to a plum where it's just like, Okay, I'm
just gonna switch in a gear and do it. And
I have no idea what that process would be like.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, I am unashamed to say that I cried the
first two times we lost patients, and you know, I
was directly involved in the care. It was to a
point where this child was unsalvageable. They had been involved
in a road traffic accident. They had siblings who died
on the scene of that road traffic accident. They came
in two o'clock in the morning. I'm the only neurosurgeon
(19:07):
in the house at that particular time. I was asked
to do an emergency procedure. Did it. I went pretty well,
but just too many other trauma to the patient's body
didn't allow them to sustain life. And talking to this
family that was very religious, very you know, together, they
reminded me of my family. You know. They were all
sitting together and sort of on the couch hoping for
(19:29):
good news, and I did not have good news to
give them. I held it together during that conversation and
tried to stay to the facts and try to stay
to what we did, what we're thinking about. What teams were,
you know, enlisting to sort of help us manage your child,
and how we're looking forward to, you know, the next
steps and doing it with a guarded sort of prognosis.
(19:52):
But here's what Here are the facts leading with that
rather than emotion. But when I left there, Jay, I
broke down and I called my daddy on the way home,
Who's you know, my hero? And I said that you know,
this is tough, this is hard to lose this patient
and talk to this family that looked a lot like us.
And you know, we said, Marin, if you didn't feel
that way, I would be afraid that you're in the
(20:13):
wrong profession right, if you didn't have that empathy that
you care for these folks even though you don't know them,
but they're your patient, they're under your jurisdiction. If you
didn't feel anything for them, I'd be nervous for you.
And so he said, use that, use it, but at
the same time, build on it and know that you're human.
You have a limit to your ability. You can be
a great brain surgeon, but you can't do it all
and just do the best you possibly can. Did you
(20:35):
do the best you could? I said, yes, Daddy, I
did do the best I could. He said, great, I'm
proud of you. And when hearing that, you know, I
keep going back to my parents, but they are phenomenal.
They pour into me. And to hear them say that
to me, even at thirty six years old, old man
with four kids of my own and a wife, I just,
you know, I needed to hear that, And so that's
how I've gotten through those very difficult situations.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Is there a part.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Of your education where they train you for these conversations
or they just leave it up to you.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Now, it happens so quickly, it's sort of such a
rat race. Sometimes in neurosurgery, they have social work available,
they have some mental health coaches that they have at
our disposal if we need them. But honestly, Jay, I mean,
we're working eighty plus hours a week as residents sometimes
and trying to see if we can even get food
in our system. Because we're running around doing surgery, seeing
(21:23):
this patient, seeing this console, moving here and moving there,
and doing all these things. It's kind of it's really
hard to sort of think about yourself in those moments.
But in that particular situation, you know, I did, you know,
come to a realization that I got to take care
of this home base first before I do anything for
the next patient, because the next patient is going to
expect the best doctor, the best Miyern role that he
(21:46):
can be, and if I'm less than that, I'm not
doing a service for that patient or his or her family.
And so I needed that and I've recognized it in myself.
But with our sort of schedule, it's very difficult to
sort of sit down, take a breath, and really work
through some of these challenging moments of our neurosurgical journey.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
On the other end, give me a story that you
end up saving someone that you didn't know but that's
really touched her and you were able to carry with
you forever.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Now that lifts you up.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah. No, I actually wrote about it in one of
our main academic neurs surgical journals. As a young lady
fifteen years old was with her boyfriend who was substantially
older than her, I think almost ten or fifteen years
older than her. They had an argument in the car.
He shot her in the head with a handgun close range.
Her friend dropped her at a local hospital that was
(22:35):
near us, but not our hospital, right at the doorstep.
Then the friend left, so she was basically left abandon there.
The nurses and everybody in the facility took her, got
her to us. I was the only nurse surgeon in
the house. Again with my attending at home, we were
ready to get to work. Brought her in emergently, got
her to the oar. We saw that the bullet was
lodging to her brain and way too deep for us
(22:56):
to go in and try to retrieve, because it was
a budding, a very import and vessel, and if we
removed the bullet then she would just have torential bleeding
from this vein. So we left the bullet in, but
we cleaned out all the necrotic sort of debris and
all the sort of you know, the dirt that came
from that, you know, that bullet, and that sort of
heat that comes with it, and we sort of fixed
(23:17):
her up a little bit and put a monitor in her,
and she stayed nice to you for I would say
about two weeks or so. She has a visual field deficit,
but she was able to work in physical therapy, occupational
therapy live. Now she's at home at school, she's got
a young dog to take care of, her daughter, her mother,
and everybody's super proud and happy for us. And the
(23:38):
young lady has called back to me and my attending
and said that we saved her life and she was
appreciative of it. So that was a big win and
something that I'll never forget for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
That's amazing, man, that's fantastic. I love hearing stores. So
she's still to this day as the bullet interrupt she's
got the bullet in her head. It's you know, it's
got a risk of moving, very very small risk.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
But it would be much much more dangerous and actually
it would probably lead to a fast demise if we
had if we had moved it, So we left the
bullet in there. There are research articles to talk about
retained objects, you know, you know, being steady and stable
over a lifetime. And so we're going to keep monitoring
her and keep getting imaging over the years. But right
now she's doing pretty well and she's back reintegrated with
(24:18):
our community, and we appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I said, I want to ask you another end here.
I always told guys because obviously I fought.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
For a long time. I wasn't a good fighter, and
you know, I started wrestling in eighty two, boxing in
eighty eight, I think, uh, mixed martial arts in ninety nine,
then started training guys from oh five o seven on
till now.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Right, So my brain's a mess, But I always tell guys, listen,
I don't fucked up, but I'm good with my fucked up.
Don't tell me where I'm fucked up unless you have
a solution. So everybody tries to tell me they have
a solution. So I want to know what solutions are.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
What I'm saying about this dock is like, yeah, those
of us in the fight came like both my front
loads were damaged, are dented in. Then there's a dend
in the back here also. But even like football players like,
I don't know if there is enough solutions yet for us,
but we're being kind of scared and told oh yeah, man,
like man, you're both in front loves are damaged in
and this has happened, and this has happened.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I'm like, all right, so what are we gonna do
about it?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well, you know, I just want to let you know,
so now you know your symptoms. Well, the fuck I
didn't you need to know my symptoms yesterday? I'll find
you yesterday until you told me this. Where are we
as far as getting better in you know, in that
getting our brains healthier? And And I've been to a
lot of different things. I went to and I've tried,
I think a lot of stuff that's out there, and
(25:36):
none have helped yet to this level. Where are we
on the spectrum of getting our brains healthier for kind
of all of us out there.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Yeah, I think we're still a bit away from that,
from the point where we all want to be not
only keeping the current athletes safe, but those former athletes,
you know, protecting and preserving the function that they have
in their brain. The brain is the best computing database
that anyone could ask for, right, I mean, we're able
(26:06):
to process information at a rapid pace and speed that
is remarkable better than any computer. The synapses, the neurons
and connections, the signaling, the pathways, the reorientation of pathways
when there is a bit of a damage, the plasticity
of the brain to be able to work around some
of those damage. Areas that cells have either died or
(26:28):
cells are swollen, or whatever the case would be, the
brain finds a way and even vasculature right vessels. If
something you know is a stroke patient or a patient
that has got some level of a schemia, you know,
the neovasculization to sort of work around almost like detours
and find a new avenue to sort of resupply blood
and oxygen to the brain tissue is fantastic. I think
(26:50):
what we're doing now with traumatic brain injury is trying
to include more people into the discussion from neurosurgery, like
usrologists to sort of pin down on what symptoms are
the main predominant symptoms for people? Is it cognitive issues?
Can you not think that clearly? You got a bit
of brain fog? Is it insomnia? Is it photophobia? Is
(27:13):
it amnesia? Is it profound headaches? Is it mood liability?
You know, what is it? Or is it all of
these things? Right? What is your main predominant symptom and
what's the main predominant neurotransmitter that we're seeing at an
excess level in these particular patients. Then you bring it
in social psychologists to talk about the ability to self
report and say, you know, as men, sometimes we try
(27:35):
to guard ourselves or even athletes in general just try
to guard ourselves from saying that we are weaker or
not feeling right or a little bit off because it's
not a broken bone, a broken shoulder, or a limp.
You know, it's not something that you can visibly see
or people say, oh, I see you're hurt, I see it.
You know this this mental issues or sort of cognitive
issues with people that can be a nebulous sort of
(27:56):
topic that not everyone can see or relate to. Then
you bring physicists, right, how do you deal with the
rotational movement of the neck and the head and sort
of working that through. So there's a lot of multidisciplinary
work that's going on. There are studies happening right across
the street at Boston University talking about if you play
for a long time, you may be high susceptible to als,
or you may be high susceptible to Parkinson's disease or
(28:18):
parking Sonian kind of symptoms. So there's some long term
research going on. Technology is still being worked through, so
the discussion and the topic is still ongoing. There is not,
i think a magic bullet at this particular point, nor
a magic therapy But what I do feel is sort
of the next frontier of this of what we're doing
in traumatic brain injury is trying to preserve and protect
(28:43):
the game that we love, the sports that we love,
by making it safer in any way we can technology
understanding what plays may lead to some of these issues,
making sure we can identify traumatic events a lot sooner.
You don't have the radiology graphics sort of findings just yet.
Everything is pretty much autopsy. When you expire, they can
(29:04):
look and see if you have these build ups of
proteins and not really right now while you're alive, and
so a lot of work to be done, a lot
of conversations around it. But I think it's what's coming
down the line for the younger group that is coming up.
My kids coming up, and the younger children are coming up.
I think that's where you'll start to see a bit
of the difference juxtaposed to the group that's either playing
(29:26):
now or playing in the past.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Because right now you've got guys in the past.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I have a friend who just went and got a
brain scammed by a certain university, and I said, why
why are you going?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
He said, I wonder what's going on? I said why,
He said, what you want to see?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
So he went and he said, man, you know what,
I thought I had like five or six concussions. It
turned out about forty to fifty. And I said, so
what are they doing about it? He goes, well, nothing,
but now I know, like the computer screen, it's harder
to read it, I have headaches. I'm like, yeah, but
you didn't yesterday until they told you this information.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
And that's why I ask you about this, because that's
what like it leads to beat down a bad road.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
There is no you know, I'm sure there will be
better solutions soon.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
And I do for myself too.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'll do hyperbart chamber, I'll do supplements, I'll do you know,
just certain things I could I could do. I've learned
breath recommendation and things like that. But my other question
too is, you know, I have, you know, memory issues,
and I'm starting to think it's not so much from
getting hit, and it's more so much than I'm just
using up so much data with this phone in my brain.
(30:29):
Like the addiction that I after this to my phone
is I don't think I've ever been addicted to something
like this, and I've had I viken an addiction.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I've been an adderall I've been, you know, stuff like this.
But man, what what is the correlation to.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
How our brands are being affected by how connected we
are now to our phones and toddlets?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, definitely, you know, I think that you know the
information that you're able to process with these images, with
these screens, it's a lot, you know. And I kind
of mentioned that processes happened concommonly in the brain. You
have these photoreceptors, you have your eyes that are taken
in that information. Then it has to get back to
your cortex and process what it is. Then you have
(31:08):
to sort of relay it to your body to say, Okay,
I'm going to have an emotional reaction to this, or
I'm going to speak to this, or I'm going to
actually physically move my hands and respond to this. So
there's all sorts of things happening over and over and
over and over again. And the brain, just like any
muscle in a body, can get fatigued, can get overrun,
and if it's not replenished with glucose hydration, good sleep,
(31:30):
vitamin E, which you know I'm sure you're probably aware
of as well. You know, these sorts of supplements that
can help relieve some of the metabolic waste that comes
with those processes. Whenever you have a process that happens
in a brain, there's waste that comes with it. And
the waste builds up because you have lack of sleep
or lack of hydration or you know, you're not really
healthy in that way, then it sort of creates this
(31:51):
sort of like we call it a fog in nurse surgery.
It's just literally somebody in a day's and they're going
through life and you can lead you see them. The
lights are on, but not really anybody's home, and they're
just not really functioning at that clip that you would
expect somebody who is a high functioning individual. So there's
a lot to it, and yeah, I definitely believe in,
you know, the limitation of some of the exposure of
(32:12):
stimuli that we get. And I do it early. Even
with my children, you know, I mean they're not on
you know, things often and even though it's easy to
kind of take care of them and they can get
on their iPad and look at cocoa melon and they
can just be quiet. Yeah, let's take this away and
you know, let's go throw a ball, Let's go run outside,
Let's go swimming our pool, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I'm gonna finish you off with one last question, which
I ask every one of my guests. Podcasts called them breakable.
Unbreakable to me is something that should have could have
broken you, but didn't. As a result, you came to
the other side of that tunnel stronger for the rest
of your life. What would that unbreakable moment.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Be for you, man? I think that unbreakable moment for
me was probably getting released by the by the Pittsburgh
Steelers in my third year and feeling like I let
people down in the Bahamas at Florida State. I've always been,
you know, at the higher level of competition, and now
(33:07):
I have a group telling me I don't want you anymore.
I don't need your services anymore. That could have broke me,
That could have stopped me. But because I had a
great family, because I read great books like Gifts It
Hands by Ben Carson, and because I had great mentors
and people to pour life into me, I said, I'm
going to pick myself up and get two percent better
every day and keep working towards being the best version
of myself. So one day, I can flip the script
(33:29):
and help people not only take out brain tumors and
you know, fix people who've got traumatic brain injuries, but
I can be an advocate and a voice for my
former teammates who say, hey, Myron, or they call me three.
You know my number in college. What can I do
to help my brain? What can I do to you know,
keep my mind sharp? I love being able to reach
back and help my boys like that because they mean
(33:50):
so much to me. So I think that would be
my unbreakable moment.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Doc, I appreciate you joining me three. Thank you so much, man.
I really this has been fantastic.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Doctor Morrow. Roll here on the Unbreakable pot a guest
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome into a breakable mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
I am Jay Glazer, and I got a great guest today,
somebody I've been wanting to meet for a long time,
someone I have so much respect for in so many
different ways. And before I get to him, if you
are like many people, you may be surprised to learn
that one in five adults in this country experienced mental
illness last year, yet far too many fail to receive
(00:36):
the support they need. Carolyn, Behavioral Health is doing something
about it. They understand that behavioral health is a key
part of whole health, delivering compassionate care that treats physical, mental, emotional,
and social needs in tandem. Carolyn behavioral health raising the
quality of life, empathy and action. I think the perfect
guests coming on today because we talk a lot of
(00:57):
mental health here. We certainly try to get men to
open up to each other a lot more man. You
guys also know that I do a lot to help
out former athletes, former professional football players, and fighters when
their uniform comes off to do something that next step.
This man is taking that step to a totally different
level than everybody else that we've dealt with before. It
is doctor Meyer Roll, former FSU, former Tennessee Titan, former
(01:21):
Pittsburgh Steel Are correct, that's right, also Oxford and now
working at Harvard. It's incredible. You know what you've been
able to do.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I know you.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I am in the presence of someone I really admire her.
So I appreciate you joining me.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Thanks. I appreciate it. And we've talked about off air
watch you for a very long time and then obviously
really impressed with your career and everything that you've been
able to do. The way you, you know, stand up
for players and advocate for them, and the way you
deliver your messages on TV and to us listeners. It's
a lot. So we appreciate you for sure.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think we're kind of all in it together. You know,
when I first started this business, people use their pen
as a weapon. And I walked in the locker room
in nineteen ninety three and I said, man, I don't
have the education these other reporters, I don't have the experience.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I was better looking of.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Course, but you know, I don't have everything else, But
you know, how can I be different? A lot of
people I think are afraid to be different. I said, well,
you know, I'm not going to use my bet as
a weapon I think they are. I'm going to start
relationships and I got killed for it for a while,
but man, we're all in this together.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
And for me, for my own.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Mental health issues, I'm always talking about building teams. I
need teams around me, And even though these are guys
I was covering, they became a team for me that
helped me through some of the darkest times of my life.
So I think that's why, you know, I've come off
like that, and eventually that became how everybody has to
do in the business. It's all relationship based business now.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
So I want to kind of go back early for you.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
When did you realize that you were different than everybody else?
Did you accept your brilliance if I could say, or
did you hide it? Grown up?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, it's a great question, you know, growing up. I
grew up in South Jersey, near Atlantic City. We left
the Bahamas, you know, when I was around three years old,
and my daddy got a job up in New York
and we had some family who had attended Richard Stockton
State College right near Galloway Township. So we just settled
there and my parents really focused on education coming from
(03:14):
another country, realizing that America had no ceiling on our growth.
If we wanted to be good citizens, good leaders, good Christians,
good thinkers, that we could really accomplish some really strong
things in this country. Not to say the Bahamas was
under civil unrest or war torn, but there was just
resources here for us if we wanted to be great
and go far. And football is one of those resources,
(03:35):
and the coaching of football was one of those resources.
You know, playing in the band and being an habitat
free humanity, doing all these things, I really just started
to sort of encapsulate in my mind that, you know,
there are opportunities that exist for people like me, you know,
young black, you know, kid of two parents, immigrant parents,
(03:58):
four older brothers that can come and do something big
in this country. And I think when I started to
have success at each of those stations of my life,
whether it be in the community doing philanthropic work, or
whether it be on the football field running past people
and scoring touchdowns, or whether it be in a classroom
getting straight a's, I said, okay, you know I'm built
a little different. My parents have invested a lot in me,
(04:20):
and they keep promoting. You know that I'm still worthy
of success in this community, in this environment, despite our differences.
That belief from my parents and my older brothers really
gave me the assurance that you know, I am different.
I can do good. I can use this great platform
that we have in the US, coming from a smaller country,
(04:42):
to go far, reach my own dreams and help people
along the way.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So as you're grown up in your real life, man,
I could really do something great. But between my years
and I could do something great on the football field.
Did you have dual dreams or do you have one
over the other.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I think it was dual. It really was, And I
realized that it was that way because again, you know,
I give love to Whitney and Beverly. My parents, they
would change the rewards for my academic success first my
athletic success. So I loved getting straight a's in class.
I loved turning my assignments in on time, and you know,
answering the questions first and doing all those sorts of things.
(05:17):
And I would get huge pizza pies from this Giovanni's
Pizza shop, Italian shop in Gallery, New Jersey. Every time
I came home with straight a's and I was like, nice,
and my older.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
What you're saying?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I like this though, And the great thing about it
exact that I have four very hungry, big older brothers
who would often take my food when I was younger.
And then my parents said, you cannot take Myron's food
when we give him this incentive. So I got to
eat it all by myself. That was wonderful. And then
with football, if I scored three touchdowns it felt good.
(05:52):
I was like, oh man, this is amazing. I'm running
past these guys, running them over, and then my parents
are getting be patter on the back like okay, good job.
I'm like, well, where's my pizza pie for athletic accomplishments.
But I loved football. I loved how it fed to
my competitiveness in the classroom. And I used both of
those roads as sort of like in a symbiotic, sort
of synergistic relationship that if I compete, I'm competing like
(06:15):
myyern roll on the field and in the classroom. And
that drive to want to be the best didn't really
stop once I took my helmet off. So to answer
your question, they were dual paths, and I always sort of,
you know, saw myself as a student athlete and had
good balance between both lives. For sure, it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Sounds to me like they were driving you on the
the academic side, because it's you know, it's probably harder
for a kid to dream about, Oh, I'm gonna go
off and be a rocket scientist than it is to
be a professional athlete.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Who did you hang out with?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Did you hang out with the jocks or did you
hang out with the smart kids.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You know, it's a good question. I hung out with
mostly the jocks, but I was so I was easily
accepted into the drama kids because I played ten and
fidl on the roof as a white Russian Jewish milkman
with five white daughters. Really, oh yeah, if I were
a rich man, I was singing out dancing people. I
(07:12):
loved it, man, it was great. So I was hanging
with the drama kids, and then I played the baritone saxophone,
So I hung out with the band kids a little bit.
But my boys like close, close boys. Even to this day.
He was my best man at my wedding were the jocks,
the football players. We just we just vibed really well
and we had a good time. So yeah, no, it
was nice. I definitely had a very diverse friend grouping
(07:34):
when I was younger, and I think that's helped me
be a better leader and a better physician today, take
care of patients who come from different parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Hey, you know, and I love that you could bring
this also into what you do your metical professional now,
because locker room football locker room is beautiful place, and
it's right. It's the only place you could have some fat,
white racist lineman being the best man at a young
fuck black Ey's wedding, go with he cares right, you're
fighting from top two seconds as long as you can
go laugh together.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
It's all love.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
There's nothing but love in that place, right, And then
if the rest of the world acted like we did
an NFL locker.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Room, we wouldn't be fighting so much. Man, you are
absolutely correct. You know, people ask me on time, doctor Roll,
what do you miss about football? Do you miss playing?
I'm like, yeah, I missed a little bit, but I
missed the locker room, man, I miss the fights. That
were fun in jovial. I missed the bets that people
would place on the miss things. This is what I
missed to Jay, And I'm sure you had this experience
(08:27):
too when you were in there. But you know, when
we would fly to games, it was like a fashion show.
And you know, I'm a six round pick. I don't
have the kind of money that Chris Johnson or Vince
Young has. So I'm walking in there with like regular
Polo on or whatever. These guys are Gucci, Louie, Fendi, Prada,
and they're like, oh, ro you gotta take that off, roll,
you gotta take that off. I'm like, hey, man, this
(08:47):
is the best I can do joke and it was
just it was so fun. It was great. We loved it. Man,
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
And that's a fun team to be around too. I
tell you a quick one here. I was so.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I started out first mixed more Lark's training program for
pro athletes. They opened up a gym here called Unbreakable,
and Chris Johnson came in. His kind of career was
going down and came in and man, he's going home
one week And I say, hey, Chris, man, don't go
home doing favor like, you're doing great here, you know,
because I said, Chris, I thought, Chris, once you got
your money, you started looking for the home run every
(09:18):
play instead of just like hitting that hole. You started
looking So the man, we're gonna kind of give you
this fighter mentality where every single time you're swinging away,
swinging away, going.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
For that knockout.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Right, it's just a mentality. So Chris goes home, he
ends up getting shot, and you know it's a terrible incident.
Right two weeks later he got a sling on and uh,
he walks in the gym. Obviously, Man, I'm so happy
you see him. I love Chris Johnson. Dude, Matt, come
give him big hope. So glad man, you came back
out and see us. We could see it. You're okay.
And he goes and he gets changed. I said, what
(09:47):
are you doing against? I want to hear a training?
So what do you mean here a train? He goes,
we'll train around it. I said, you got a bullet
in your shoulder. He goes, yeah, well we'll train around it.
I said, Chris, you have a bullet in your shoulder.
He goes, Jake, ladies, just figuring your way out. So
I had to Chris with a bullet in his shoulder
and train them all the way back and ended up
(10:08):
getting them signed two hours on our Cardinals after that,
and he was I think he was thin. He was
come back Player of the Year. But that was the
first for me to have to trade. Now, listen, when
you're hanging the fight community, you hang out with a
bunch of crazy people. But this was still first for
me to trade a guy with a bullet and his
shoulder and and get him through.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Man. But that was a man. That was wild. That
was a that was a wild time. That was a
fun must have been a fun team to be around.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
That was a lot of fun. And CJ, you know
he uh he took care of me too because we
trained in Orlando together where he's from, uh the wild
Ward Sports at Disney And so when I got up
to Tennessee, I got drafted. You know, he called me
immediately said I got you. So that's another beautiful thing
about the locker room. You know, you had these guys
who just want to put their arms around you and
make sure you're doing the right thing and teach you
the right ways on how to be a pro, how
(10:49):
to protect the shield, how to keep your body right,
how to stay away from trouble, how to manage your money.
You know how to know where the pitfalls are because
you come in from and you know this jam, I mean,
come in from eating waffle house as a junior at
Florida State University in Tallahassee, Florida. Then you got the
money to buy Ruth Chris whenever you want uh and
fly different people in or give somebody a little loan
(11:12):
because they helped you out in the Bahamas when you
were younger or something, or in New Jersey. And what
can you do? You know, how can we how can
we keep ourselves alive? And how can we you know,
keep the main thing the main thing and focus on
the game. So Chris was helpful for that. Definitely a
fun team. Love playing there and it was awesome.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
So now as your your career goes on and you
played for.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
You played for four years three just three three years?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Correct? Don't say just three three is good? Three is
more than the rest of the world. And it's what
I get on guys. But there's all time and say
I just did this, No man, you and this is
why I started this foundation. MVP e merging bets of
players to help football players and fighters and veterans when
they when the uniform comes off in transition, a lot
of times guys are gonna put down what they've done. Man,
you playing in the NFL, myron is not who you
(11:57):
are and what's behind your ribcage that.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Got you to beat out millions and millions and millions.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
To play on that level. That's who you are. Whether
it's one game or a thousand games, it doesn't matter.
That makes you different. And that's what people forget a
lot of times. So whenever it's I don't ever want
you to say only three again, Right, I played three
years in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
You know, I'm not trying to school the doctor here,
but I'm schooling the doctor here.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I'm a lifelong learner. I appreciate that, right.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I want you to have some pride that you play
in the NFL. Man, That is that makes you fucking
different than everybody else on the planet, every room you
walk into forever, and nobody could ever take that away
from you.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So when you did leave after year three, was it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
A difficult transition or did you already know Okay, I'm
gonna go you no go to medicine, and I have
my next purpose was there at that time.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
The difficult time in between.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
It was definitely difficult. Even though I had the road
ready to go, Even though I was reading medical journals
and you know, preparing for the MCAT, you know, the
interest examine too, medical school, I was thinking about the transition.
I still felt that I you know, I was young.
I was twenty five years old, twenty six, and football
had informed my entire life up to that point, and
(13:05):
my friendships, my lifestyle, my sleeping habits, my eating habits,
I mean even my wardrobe. I dressed like a player,
I walk like a player. I wore slides everywhere because
I wanted to keep my feet right. I was getting
massages and doing all the things that you would do
on a day to day basis. I would wake up
thinking about football. Now, when that's over and you transition
to your next chapter of your life, it's like, man,
(13:27):
well where do I fill this void? And so for me,
it took me a couple of days, actually a couple
of weeks of just being in my parents' home. And
this sounds, you know, maybe a little bit of a regression,
but I look at it as going to where you
protected your refuge. I went to my parents home. I
ate my favorite peas and rice and crack cunk my,
you know, our Bahamian dish. My mommy and daddy would
(13:49):
just sort of pray for me and just look after
me and make sure I was okay. And then when
I got out of that sort of moment of lamentation,
I said, Okay, now it's time for me to shrug
this off and get going. And actually my mother came
into my room and said, you know, you had a
couple of things written down on the list when you
were younger of what you wanted to be Rhodes scholar,
NFL player, brain surgeon. You crossed off these first two.
(14:10):
The second one is done. Football is over. Now now
it's time to get this third one done. And I
think you're the man for the job. And when when
we said that to me, that was like the words
I need to hear to say, pick yourself up, don't
say what was me. Get into the books and be
the best brain surgeon that you possibly be, because the
next chapter of your life will have value, will have meaning,
(14:31):
and use what football taught you to be a better physician,
to be a better neurosurgeon. And thankfully I've been able
to do that. So that's kind of how I shook
it off, and you know, dove straight into this career
that I'm currently in and I've enjoyed it ever since.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Her. REMEMBERDS once told those Buccaneers players say, hey, football
is an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
It's an opportunity and you could use a lot of
things that you learned football your next step of life.
But if we just hold on for like man, I
just lost that forever. That's a difficult place for guys
to get out of it. And I understand it because also,
like football is different than other sports, Like if you
play basketball, you retire, you can shoot, you know, on
black top of your boys forever.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
You play hockey, you still skate around with your boys,
you play baseball. You're done with football. It's done.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
It's over.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
There's no more, there's no You're not gonna go out
play two un in touch. For you buddies, it's over.
And that's that's hard. That's a really difficult.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Thing for a lot of guys.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, it is, absolutely it is. And you know when
I tell people of this story, I say, you know,
for someone who had to plan one B or one A,
whatever you want to call it, like myself. Even for me,
it was hard to leave. So I can imagine guys
who may have put a lot into football and not
really paid much attention or given a priority to what
(15:46):
the next chapter of their life may look like. Those
individuals sometimes are susceptible to spiraling and need as much
support to butcher them forward and keep them afloating, and
to tell them that your worth is not defined by
the helmets of shoda pads and the stats you had
on the field, tuly defined by the type of man
and character you have, and a difference you can make
with the abilities that you've been able to accrue over
(16:06):
your lifetime. Don't lose it when I think about you know,
the people who want to employ leaders, they look for
people with discipline, focus, hard work, communication skills, teamwork, ability,
overcoming adversity, mitigating pressure, knowing how to be coached. That's
everything we've done as athletes our entire life. You can
translate those same characteristics to medicine like me, education, law enforcement, business,
(16:28):
whatever it is. There is a shot for you out there,
and so I think you know it makes sense. I
know you're you know, you're preach the same message. Jay,
What were you when you went to medicine were you
looking for?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I guess a locker room and they're a different type
of locker room, and how you know, you know again
it's we need this team right to help us between
our yours a lot. How different or are there any
similarities from that kind of locker room to locker room
from football?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, I definitely was looking for that sort of camaraderie
and I found it in my my Harvard residency program
up here in Boston, mass General Hospital. It's you know,
there are over one hundred residency programs around the country,
and you know, I was interviewed at all of them.
Johns Hopkins, University of California, San Francisco, Yale, you know,
Penn everywhere, Miami, Vanderbilt. But I liked Harvard because the residents,
(17:18):
you know, were cohesive. They after the surgeries, they would
go and get some food at a local restaurant and
talk about life. And they can have discussions about you know,
pituitary autonomas and how it's affecting the hormonal distribution to
this patient. But then the next second they could talk
about you know, jay Z and Beyonce's newest tour that
(17:39):
are doing. I'm like, okay, you know, I like the balance.
I like to be able to do a little both
because I never wanted to ever jay be defined in
a box as just a brain surgeon or just a
football player. I always wanted to be a human that
could intersect with other people because as much as I
love this field of neurosurgery, you know, in order to
one communicate with patients, but also to bring neuse surgery
(18:00):
to the mainstream and try to bring other people into
what we do, uh as far as policy, as far
as prevention, you have to be able to communicate with
these individuals. And and I loved it. I love the
sort of cohesiveness of this program here in Harvard. I
found it here and it's been it's been great.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I mean, ask you, I think it's a difficult one,
but you I want to get a deeper as I
can with you here. I don't know if there's a
training for this. When you have a patient that comes
in and you know they're not going to make it,
and you've got to tell them they're not going to
make it, Like.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
How do you how do you train for that? How
do you prepare for that? Does it? Does it ever
get to a plum where it's just like, Okay, I'm
just gonna switch in a gear and do it. And
I have no idea what that process would be like.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, I am unashamed to say that I cried the
first two times we lost patients, and you know, I
was directly involved in the care. It was to a
point where this child was unsalvageable. They had been involved
in a road traffic accident. They had siblings who died
on the scene of that road traffic accident. They came
in two o'clock in the morning. I'm the only neurosurgeon
(19:07):
in the house at that particular time. I was asked
to do an emergency procedure. Did it. I went pretty well,
but just too many other trauma to the patient's body
didn't allow them to sustain life. And talking to this
family that was very religious, very you know, together, they
reminded me of my family. You know. They were all
sitting together and sort of on the couch hoping for
(19:29):
good news, and I did not have good news to
give them. I held it together during that conversation and
tried to stay to the facts and try to stay
to what we did, what we're thinking about. What teams were,
you know, enlisting to sort of help us manage your child,
and how we're looking forward to, you know, the next
steps and doing it with a guarded sort of prognosis.
(19:52):
But here's what Here are the facts leading with that
rather than emotion. But when I left there, Jay, I
broke down and I called my daddy on the way home,
Who's you know, my hero? And I said that you know,
this is tough, this is hard to lose this patient
and talk to this family that looked a lot like us.
And you know, we said, Marin, if you didn't feel
that way, I would be afraid that you're in the
(20:13):
wrong profession right, if you didn't have that empathy that
you care for these folks even though you don't know them,
but they're your patient, they're under your jurisdiction. If you
didn't feel anything for them, I'd be nervous for you.
And so he said, use that, use it, but at
the same time, build on it and know that you're human.
You have a limit to your ability. You can be
a great brain surgeon, but you can't do it all
and just do the best you possibly can. Did you
(20:35):
do the best you could? I said, yes, Daddy, I
did do the best I could. He said, great, I'm
proud of you. And when hearing that, you know, I
keep going back to my parents, but they are phenomenal.
They pour into me. And to hear them say that
to me, even at thirty six years old, old man
with four kids of my own and a wife, I just,
you know, I needed to hear that, And so that's
how I've gotten through those very difficult situations.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Is there a part.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Of your education where they train you for these conversations
or they just leave it up to you.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Now, it happens so quickly, it's sort of such a
rat race. Sometimes in neurosurgery, they have social work available,
they have some mental health coaches that they have at
our disposal if we need them. But honestly, Jay, I mean,
we're working eighty plus hours a week as residents sometimes
and trying to see if we can even get food
in our system. Because we're running around doing surgery, seeing
(21:23):
this patient, seeing this console, moving here and moving there,
and doing all these things. It's kind of it's really
hard to sort of think about yourself in those moments.
But in that particular situation, you know, I did, you know,
come to a realization that I got to take care
of this home base first before I do anything for
the next patient, because the next patient is going to
expect the best doctor, the best Miyern role that he
(21:46):
can be, and if I'm less than that, I'm not
doing a service for that patient or his or her family.
And so I needed that and I've recognized it in myself.
But with our sort of schedule, it's very difficult to
sort of sit down, take a breath, and really work
through some of these challenging moments of our neurosurgical journey.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
On the other end, give me a story that you
end up saving someone that you didn't know but that's
really touched her and you were able to carry with
you forever.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Now that lifts you up.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah. No, I actually wrote about it in one of
our main academic neurs surgical journals. As a young lady
fifteen years old was with her boyfriend who was substantially
older than her, I think almost ten or fifteen years
older than her. They had an argument in the car.
He shot her in the head with a handgun close range.
Her friend dropped her at a local hospital that was
(22:35):
near us, but not our hospital, right at the doorstep.
Then the friend left, so she was basically left abandon there.
The nurses and everybody in the facility took her, got
her to us. I was the only nurse surgeon in
the house. Again with my attending at home, we were
ready to get to work. Brought her in emergently, got
her to the oar. We saw that the bullet was
lodging to her brain and way too deep for us
(22:56):
to go in and try to retrieve, because it was
a budding, a very import and vessel, and if we
removed the bullet then she would just have torential bleeding
from this vein. So we left the bullet in, but
we cleaned out all the necrotic sort of debris and
all the sort of you know, the dirt that came
from that, you know, that bullet, and that sort of
heat that comes with it, and we sort of fixed
(23:17):
her up a little bit and put a monitor in her,
and she stayed nice to you for I would say
about two weeks or so. She has a visual field deficit,
but she was able to work in physical therapy, occupational
therapy live. Now she's at home at school, she's got
a young dog to take care of, her daughter, her mother,
and everybody's super proud and happy for us. And the
(23:38):
young lady has called back to me and my attending
and said that we saved her life and she was
appreciative of it. So that was a big win and
something that I'll never forget for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
That's amazing, man, that's fantastic. I love hearing stores. So
she's still to this day as the bullet interrupt she's
got the bullet in her head. It's you know, it's
got a risk of moving, very very small risk.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
But it would be much much more dangerous and actually
it would probably lead to a fast demise if we
had if we had moved it, So we left the
bullet in there. There are research articles to talk about
retained objects, you know, you know, being steady and stable
over a lifetime. And so we're going to keep monitoring
her and keep getting imaging over the years. But right
now she's doing pretty well and she's back reintegrated with
(24:18):
our community, and we appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I said, I want to ask you another end here.
I always told guys because obviously I fought.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
For a long time. I wasn't a good fighter, and
you know, I started wrestling in eighty two, boxing in
eighty eight, I think, uh, mixed martial arts in ninety nine,
then started training guys from oh five o seven on
till now.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Right, So my brain's a mess, But I always tell guys, listen,
I don't fucked up, but I'm good with my fucked up.
Don't tell me where I'm fucked up unless you have
a solution. So everybody tries to tell me they have
a solution. So I want to know what solutions are.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
What I'm saying about this dock is like, yeah, those
of us in the fight came like both my front
loads were damaged, are dented in. Then there's a dend
in the back here also. But even like football players like,
I don't know if there is enough solutions yet for us,
but we're being kind of scared and told oh yeah, man,
like man, you're both in front loves are damaged in
and this has happened, and this has happened.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I'm like, all right, so what are we gonna do
about it?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well, you know, I just want to let you know,
so now you know your symptoms. Well, the fuck I
didn't you need to know my symptoms yesterday? I'll find
you yesterday until you told me this. Where are we
as far as getting better in you know, in that
getting our brains healthier? And And I've been to a
lot of different things. I went to and I've tried,
I think a lot of stuff that's out there, and
(25:36):
none have helped yet to this level. Where are we
on the spectrum of getting our brains healthier for kind
of all of us out there.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Yeah, I think we're still a bit away from that,
from the point where we all want to be not
only keeping the current athletes safe, but those former athletes,
you know, protecting and preserving the function that they have
in their brain. The brain is the best computing database
that anyone could ask for, right, I mean, we're able
(26:06):
to process information at a rapid pace and speed that
is remarkable better than any computer. The synapses, the neurons
and connections, the signaling, the pathways, the reorientation of pathways
when there is a bit of a damage, the plasticity
of the brain to be able to work around some
of those damage. Areas that cells have either died or
(26:28):
cells are swollen, or whatever the case would be, the
brain finds a way and even vasculature right vessels. If
something you know is a stroke patient or a patient
that has got some level of a schemia, you know,
the neovasculization to sort of work around almost like detours
and find a new avenue to sort of resupply blood
and oxygen to the brain tissue is fantastic. I think
(26:50):
what we're doing now with traumatic brain injury is trying
to include more people into the discussion from neurosurgery, like
usrologists to sort of pin down on what symptoms are
the main predominant symptoms for people? Is it cognitive issues?
Can you not think that clearly? You got a bit
of brain fog? Is it insomnia? Is it photophobia? Is
(27:13):
it amnesia? Is it profound headaches? Is it mood liability?
You know, what is it? Or is it all of
these things? Right? What is your main predominant symptom and
what's the main predominant neurotransmitter that we're seeing at an
excess level in these particular patients. Then you bring it
in social psychologists to talk about the ability to self
report and say, you know, as men, sometimes we try
(27:35):
to guard ourselves or even athletes in general just try
to guard ourselves from saying that we are weaker or
not feeling right or a little bit off because it's
not a broken bone, a broken shoulder, or a limp.
You know, it's not something that you can visibly see
or people say, oh, I see you're hurt, I see it.
You know this this mental issues or sort of cognitive
issues with people that can be a nebulous sort of
(27:56):
topic that not everyone can see or relate to. Then
you bring physicists, right, how do you deal with the
rotational movement of the neck and the head and sort
of working that through. So there's a lot of multidisciplinary
work that's going on. There are studies happening right across
the street at Boston University talking about if you play
for a long time, you may be high susceptible to als,
or you may be high susceptible to Parkinson's disease or
(28:18):
parking Sonian kind of symptoms. So there's some long term
research going on. Technology is still being worked through, so
the discussion and the topic is still ongoing. There is not,
i think a magic bullet at this particular point, nor
a magic therapy But what I do feel is sort
of the next frontier of this of what we're doing
in traumatic brain injury is trying to preserve and protect
(28:43):
the game that we love, the sports that we love,
by making it safer in any way we can technology
understanding what plays may lead to some of these issues,
making sure we can identify traumatic events a lot sooner.
You don't have the radiology graphics sort of findings just yet.
Everything is pretty much autopsy. When you expire, they can
(29:04):
look and see if you have these build ups of
proteins and not really right now while you're alive, and
so a lot of work to be done, a lot
of conversations around it. But I think it's what's coming
down the line for the younger group that is coming up.
My kids coming up, and the younger children are coming up.
I think that's where you'll start to see a bit
of the difference juxtaposed to the group that's either playing
(29:26):
now or playing in the past.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Because right now you've got guys in the past.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I have a friend who just went and got a
brain scammed by a certain university, and I said, why
why are you going?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
He said, I wonder what's going on? I said why,
He said, what you want to see?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
So he went and he said, man, you know what,
I thought I had like five or six concussions. It
turned out about forty to fifty. And I said, so
what are they doing about it? He goes, well, nothing,
but now I know, like the computer screen, it's harder
to read it, I have headaches. I'm like, yeah, but
you didn't yesterday until they told you this information.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
And that's why I ask you about this, because that's
what like it leads to beat down a bad road.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
There is no you know, I'm sure there will be
better solutions soon.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
And I do for myself too.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'll do hyperbart chamber, I'll do supplements, I'll do you know,
just certain things I could I could do. I've learned
breath recommendation and things like that. But my other question
too is, you know, I have, you know, memory issues,
and I'm starting to think it's not so much from
getting hit, and it's more so much than I'm just
using up so much data with this phone in my brain.
(30:29):
Like the addiction that I after this to my phone
is I don't think I've ever been addicted to something
like this, and I've had I viken an addiction.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I've been an adderall I've been, you know, stuff like this.
But man, what what is the correlation to.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
How our brands are being affected by how connected we
are now to our phones and toddlets?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, definitely, you know, I think that you know the
information that you're able to process with these images, with
these screens, it's a lot, you know. And I kind
of mentioned that processes happened concommonly in the brain. You
have these photoreceptors, you have your eyes that are taken
in that information. Then it has to get back to
your cortex and process what it is. Then you have
(31:08):
to sort of relay it to your body to say, Okay,
I'm going to have an emotional reaction to this, or
I'm going to speak to this, or I'm going to
actually physically move my hands and respond to this. So
there's all sorts of things happening over and over and
over and over again. And the brain, just like any
muscle in a body, can get fatigued, can get overrun,
and if it's not replenished with glucose hydration, good sleep,
(31:30):
vitamin E, which you know I'm sure you're probably aware
of as well. You know, these sorts of supplements that
can help relieve some of the metabolic waste that comes
with those processes. Whenever you have a process that happens
in a brain, there's waste that comes with it. And
the waste builds up because you have lack of sleep
or lack of hydration or you know, you're not really
healthy in that way, then it sort of creates this
(31:51):
sort of like we call it a fog in nurse surgery.
It's just literally somebody in a day's and they're going
through life and you can lead you see them. The
lights are on, but not really anybody's home, and they're
just not really functioning at that clip that you would
expect somebody who is a high functioning individual. So there's
a lot to it, and yeah, I definitely believe in,
you know, the limitation of some of the exposure of
(32:12):
stimuli that we get. And I do it early. Even
with my children, you know, I mean they're not on
you know, things often and even though it's easy to
kind of take care of them and they can get
on their iPad and look at cocoa melon and they
can just be quiet. Yeah, let's take this away and
you know, let's go throw a ball, Let's go run outside,
Let's go swimming our pool, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I'm gonna finish you off with one last question, which
I ask every one of my guests. Podcasts called them breakable.
Unbreakable to me is something that should have could have
broken you, but didn't. As a result, you came to
the other side of that tunnel stronger for the rest
of your life. What would that unbreakable moment.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Be for you, man? I think that unbreakable moment for
me was probably getting released by the by the Pittsburgh
Steelers in my third year and feeling like I let
people down in the Bahamas at Florida State. I've always been,
you know, at the higher level of competition, and now
(33:07):
I have a group telling me I don't want you anymore.
I don't need your services anymore. That could have broke me,
That could have stopped me. But because I had a
great family, because I read great books like Gifts It
Hands by Ben Carson, and because I had great mentors
and people to pour life into me, I said, I'm
going to pick myself up and get two percent better
every day and keep working towards being the best version
of myself. So one day, I can flip the script
(33:29):
and help people not only take out brain tumors and
you know, fix people who've got traumatic brain injuries, but
I can be an advocate and a voice for my
former teammates who say, hey, Myron, or they call me three.
You know my number in college. What can I do
to help my brain? What can I do to you know,
keep my mind sharp? I love being able to reach
back and help my boys like that because they mean
(33:50):
so much to me. So I think that would be
my unbreakable moment.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Doc, I appreciate you joining me three. Thank you so much, man.
I really this has been fantastic.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Doctor Morrow. Roll here on the Unbreakable pot a guest
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
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