May 5, 2021 • 37 mins
Clay Travis talks navigating newly drafted quarterbacks versus vet QB's, like Cam Newton and Mac Jones. FOX and Friends' Will Cain is in the house for his weekly conversation. The fellas talk Will's Cowboys/Draft, Aaron Rodgers drama, ranking the NFL Draft as a sports topic, LeBron, NBA ratings, the Washington Football Team, and more. Plus, Clay examines why the NFL Draft has become such an enjoyable event for Americans.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Outkicked the Coverage with Clay Travis Live every weekday morning
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(00:23):
Sports Radio. I was kind of looking. We talked about
Rookie of the Year odds. We talked about Aaron Rodgers
and the drama surrounding the Packers and the Broncos maybe
making a run after Aaron Rodgers. But I'm also intrigued
by a lot of these rookie quarterbacks and look, Trevor
Lawrence and Zack Wilson seems certain to be penciled in
(00:44):
to be starters week one in season. What happens with
the three guys that are theoretically starters who now have
younger quarterbacks that have been drafted underneath them. Jimmy g
has now got Trey Lance, cam Newton has now got
Mac Jones, and Andy Dalton now has Justin Fields. We
(01:09):
talked a lot about the teams adding the young quarterbacks.
We haven't really talked that much about the reaction of
the veteran quarterback, and Jimmy Garoppolo to me, seems the
most likely of these three veteran quarterbacks to actually start
for the entire year. I think that the San Francisco
forty Niners are going to have Jimmy G as their
quarterback barring injury, and then they'll go to Tray Lance
(01:33):
next season. I think this will be a little bit
of a Patrick Mahomes and Alex Smith type situation. But
what kind of career does Jimmy Garoppolo have going forward?
How many teams are going to be interested in him
as their guy? Is there anyone I think of the
three veterans that had rookie quarterbacks drafted, Jimmy G has
(01:56):
the best future as a starting quarterback. But I'm not
sure it's that good of a future. So let's put
a pen in that one. Think about it for a moment.
Cam Newton kind of a surprise. I'll be honest with you.
I did not anticipate Cam suddenly getting the gig again
for the New England Patriots after the performance that he
(02:17):
had in last season. Last in touchdowns, last in yards
per game. For anybody who started ten or more games.
I didn't think Bill Belichick was gonna bring him back.
Now there are some extenuating circumstances, Cam got COVID. You
had all the issues surrounding uh, the number of players
who opted out of the New England Patriots. And by
the way, the Patriots had almost no offensive weapons. Now
(02:39):
they've got Hunter Henry John hu Smith among others, and
so this should be a drastically improved I would think
offense just based on those tight ends alone. But what
do you think Cam's real reaction was when he saw
mac Jones falling? Because Cam had to be rooting like
(03:00):
heck for mac Jones not to be sitting there for
fifteen for the New England Patriots. Because, as I said
earlier in the show, if you told me right now
over under, I think there's a decent chance that mac
Jones is starting around the midpoint of the season, and
I'm not sure if that happens, that Cam Newton is
ever a starter in the NFL again. And so he
(03:23):
had to be looking at this situation year two with
the New England Patriots. Josh McDaniels second year in an
offensive system as his opportunity to demonstrate that he still
had the m v P caliber swagger that would allow
him to be a starting quarterback in this league. Because
I've been talking about this for a long time. I
love Cam Newton. I've enjoyed watching him play for years.
(03:44):
I think that Cam Newton had one of the greatest,
probably the second greatest college football season that I've ever
seen a quarterback have. Number one, by the way, Joe Burrow,
Number two Cam Newton, And I think Cam Newton has
had a tremendously successful quarterback career. You remember when that
kid taunted him and it turned into kind of a story.
I think Cam Newton in many ways has not been
respected enough. Heisman Trophy winner, national champion m v P
(04:08):
of the NFL takes his team to the Super Bowl
and they go eighteen and two or seventeen and two
or whatever the heck there record was that year. I mean,
it was an incredible season that Cam had. But I
also feel like Cam Newton, especially now with Mac Jones
on the Patriots, is effectively done as a starting quarterback
in the NFL. I don't know how many other options
(04:30):
there would have been for Cam Newton if Bill Belichick
hadn't brought him back and the least, and Butmcam I
would put second there behind Jimmy Garoppolo, and that maybe
they're somewhere where it makes sense for him to go.
The one that makes the least sense to me is
Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton did not have a good year
filling in for Dak Prescott, even with an incredible cadre
(04:53):
of wide receivers, and now he's gonna go to the
Bears and I think probably start week one unless he
looks awful, and Justin Fields will come in a little
bit later, because I think it's always easier to bring
in the rookie quarterback after a few weeks than it
is to start the rookie quarterback. If he struggles and
doesn't look very good, then do you go back to
(05:15):
the veteran. That's a difficult dynamic, I think oftentimes, and
can hit the confidence of the rookie quarterback who was
stepping into a really difficult role. So I think Andy
Dalton basically his career is over and he had to
be hoping, just like Cam Newton had to be hoping
that the Bears were not going to be able to
(05:36):
trade up and get Justin Fields. I guarantee you he
was like, Hey, Broncos, how about you take a quarterback?
Hey Panthers, how about you take a quarterback? Lions, are
you really sure you want to roll with Jared Goff?
Are you really sure about that? And so, of these
three guys that I think are going to be eventually
passed to me, the only guy that has got a
(05:59):
career potential really in a substantial way is Jimmy Garoppolo
Cam Newton. I feel like as soon as mac Jones
was drafted, it was basically it for Cam as a
starter in the NFL, because I just don't see a
lot of teams that would be interested in bringing him in. Now,
they might bring him in to compete, like, right, the
Houston Texans have no quarterback. Next year, they might bring
(06:20):
in a couple of veterans, assuming Deshaun Watson has truly
done there as I think he is. But the number
of NFL teams that would be interested in Jimmy Garoppolo,
Cam Newton or Andy Dalton are dwindling. And three of
them just said, yeah, we're not really that interested in
you when they made the decision to go draft, respectively,
Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields, which is exactly
(06:41):
what we just saw happen. And so to me, Cam
Newton versus Mac Jones, that's Auburn versus Alabama and Jimmy
g Uh, Jimmy G's gonna start. But Andy Dalton trying
to figure out how to hand the reins to Justin Fields.
It's a tough situation, not an easy dynamic for those
veteran quarterbacks. This is outkicked the coverage with Clay Travis
(07:07):
will Kine. He is with us now. You can follow
him on Twitter at wil Kaine six to ten am
Eastern on Fox and Friends Saturday and Sunday morning. Also
has the will Kaine Podcast. And he is a diehard
Dallas Cowboy fan. And well, I gotta give you credit.
I love you. Know. Lots of fans have opinions on
who their team should take in the first round, but
(07:27):
you were breaking down who you thought the Cowboys should
take in the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth round.
How would you assess? You know? Now, as we come
up on I guess six days since the first round
of the NFL Draft, the Cowboys overall, it is very
defensive heavy draft in general. This may be normal human
reaction to the draft but I start out with disappointment.
(07:51):
I didn't like it. I'm like, who are these guys? Clar,
You're right? Like I pay attention to the fourth fit
the sixth round, I read Dane Bruegler's Beast Draft Guide.
I everybody, I can't tell you. I sit here and
I watched tape. But what I am is, I'm like
a computer that takes in every piece of draft information
and compiles it into my consensus of what I want.
(08:11):
And the Cowboys were far away from that. They kept
picking guys. I'm like, who that's like two rounds away
when all these other guys that I've fallen in love
with for the past few months are available. So I
didn't like it, but normal human reaction. I've given myself
a couple of days and I'm starting to get excited
about Chauncey Gholston whoever he is. Right, It's funny I
(08:32):
saw I. I saved this because I thought I would
hit you with it. I mean you might have seen
this on Twitter as well. This was the early round
Cowboy picks and I'm gonna scroll through uh and see
if I can find all. Right, this is Matt Miller,
who is NFL draft scout. He said Cowboys round three
versus my board. Pick seventy five. He ranked him to
osa and I can't even pronounce his full name. You
(08:53):
just mentioned him. Pick eighty four, Chauncey Gholston, he ranked
him two d and forty two. Pick Nasha on right,
he ranked him three fifteen And I'm reading from his tweet.
I was saving this for you could be there, right
and I'm wrong. But never had this happened before, so, uh,
you know, like it's always interesting, you know, everybody has
their own. The draft is as much art as it
(09:14):
is science. But it is interesting to see these immediate
reactions from people who spend a lot of time more
than even you or I spending uh, you know, sort
of looking at the overall draft perspectives. The only thing
about that is and by the way, I like Matt.
I think Matt Miller is great. Um, I think the
only problem with that is I saw somebody refer to
this play the industrial draft complex. What happens is everybody
(09:38):
starts forming a big board, and then there's group thinks,
so yes, does Matt Miller's board look like Dane Brugler's,
does Dame Brukler's look like Daniel Jeremiah's and what happens
is and all these guys are individually great. I'm not
questioning any of them, but if you start looking, you're like, well,
I have Naean right as a sixth rounder, but Dane
Brugler has him as a second I must be off.
So they all right kind of getting into the same play.
(10:00):
And it may just be. It may just be the
Cowboys are off on a totally different board and they're
right in the group. Industrial draft complex is wrong, That's
all I can hope at this point. Well, that's what
the Raiders argue every year, and it could be worse.
I mean the Titans, my team drafted a guy in
the fourth round who had been arrested for assault the
day before of a woman and didn't know about it,
which is kind of vintage Titans, you know, like just
(10:22):
absolutely absurd and ridiculous situation. All Right. The other story,
even with the draft going on, that has just taken
over everything in the world of sports, and we can't
stop talking about it because there's so much interest. Aaron Rodgers,
from your perspective, will do you find yourself allied more
with Aaron Rodgers or the Green Bay Packer perspective? Here,
(10:42):
where does this story go from? Here? I find myself
allied with the Green Bay Packers. But let's go through
this a couple different ways. I remember when I was
on ESPN, I feel like Aaron Rodgers, like so many
other debates, began to symbolize more than just Aaron Rodgers.
In other words, I would have these debates Max Kellerman
and he would talk about most talented quarterback of his lifetime.
(11:05):
Now maximize disagreements ran deep. Okay, I mean cross topic
pollination of disagreements. But I've always been a guy who
loved Tom Brady. Whereas you could say his natural talents
compared to his his fellow prose was less, but he
was more of a self made man in terms of
football accomplishments, where a Rodgers had all this talent, but
(11:28):
yet it added up to weigh less with him. I
just didn't like that character as much as I liked
the character of of of Tom Brady. That being said,
Aaron Rodgers is super talented, He's also moody. He's a
personality conflict waiting to happen. I think history has proven
that out. So with Rogers you know, in order to
get to the place where you're kind of team Rogers
(11:50):
versus team Packers, you just have to value talent so
far above everything else that you forgive personality conflicts. You
forgive a lack of accomplishments compared to what he can do.
You forgive him going off script and sort of being
a little not totally, but a little uncoachable in that way.
I don't forgive those things in the same way. So
I talked about this with Shannon Spake in the first
(12:11):
hour of the program today, and I said, when you
look at athletes, guys like Aaron Rodgers who have never
been married, have no kids. We know because it went
public during the Bachelor in other aspects with his brothers,
and his family has relatively limited relationships of a deep
nature with his family. Based on all the history out
(12:32):
there right now, Guys like that don't really exist very
much in sports or otherwise. You talked about maybe a
prickly personality. How does that factor in here in terms
of what Aaron Rodgers might be willing to do in
this dispute with the Packers. In other words, how much
of it is personal versus professional? I would think a
lot the guy who just described this one that would
(12:53):
hold a grudge personally, right, who who gets his feelings
hurt to be real um and would want to want
to act upon those feelings you. In other words, it's
none of this is surprising. It's somewhat to be expected.
We thought it was a Mike McCarthy problem. Clearly it
wasn't a Mike McCarthy problem. It's a Maaron Rodger's problem,
new coaching staff, new GM over the last several years.
(13:16):
This is something that follows him around. And people have
made that joke and I don't remember it's Sarah Silverman
joke or or whoever it might be. But if you
keep having bad roommates over and over, maybe you're the
bad roommate. Right. It is interesting too because I don't
know if you have single guy friends who are approaching
forty years old and have never been married. But at
(13:37):
some point the world becomes so wrapped up in you
that you can't see the larger universe. And we're since
we've talked off the air, you've got kids that are
playing little league sports or whatever it is, and uh,
and you've got events that you have to make it too,
and a huge percentage. I would say of our audience
either has kids or grandkids that they're regularly chasing around,
(14:00):
shepherding around in other words, like we might have jobs
that matter in some sense of the word, but really,
like in my household, I'm the least important person in
my house right and like and I think that helps
to I always say, you can have serious opinions, but
not take yourself that seriously. And I remember Ray Allen
had a great line once after I think it was
(14:22):
Game six, when he hit the three to force a
game seven, uh for the Heat back in the day,
and they were like, hey, how are you going to
celebrate and he said, I don't know. My wife's still
gonna make me take the garbage out. And that was
just such a great line because you know, you think
of guys up on a pedestal and at times bringing
them back into the real world can be important. And look,
(14:42):
Aaron Rodgers supremely talented, there's no doubt about that, But
I question how much of a real world life he
has when it's just him and he seems to not
have a ton of people with deep connections in his life.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I'd say two
things in response, Um, I like what you said. I
like one thing, Um, take what you say seriously, but
(15:04):
don't take yourself seriously. I've always tried to live by that.
And and and again, you know you're My relationship is interesting
because we've only really talked off their handful of times.
But I noticed this from you about you from afar
um you, I think you live by that same credo,
like like, I'm what I'm saying, I believe and I
take very seriously. But for you to make fun of
me or tell me I'm wrong or whatever, I don't
(15:26):
take that that seriously. I can laugh at my very
I think that's very key. It's a charming thing. It's
an attractive thing, meaning people want to be around people
like that. Don't take yourself so seriously. I don't have
made this point. Who have stayed single this long? It's
aint there's something going on there, right, Yeah? Absolutely, And
(15:46):
they've tailored their life to their ideal vision, you know
what I mean. Like they have the house the way
they want it, they have their social life the way
they want it, they make the bet the way they wanted.
Everything is them driven because there's no one else to
interfere with it, so imagine that in a locker room. Yes,
the best, There's no doubt Aaron Rodgers is the best
(16:07):
in that locker room, one of the best in the league.
It's pretty hard to start going. You know what, what
you have to say offensive coordinator, you head coach, you
wide receiver, you, offensive lineman. Well, you have to say
it's really important. Perhaps I should compromise my tavored life,
my tailored expectation of what you have to say. That's hard, Yeah,
And I think you raised a good point about the
(16:28):
locker room perspective, where there's always that disconnect between hey,
team success and individual success, and oftentimes in football in particular,
they can be very tied together because no matter how
good of a football player you are, it's a challenge
to be one of eleven guys. Even if you have
an incredible job, do an incredible job. And Aaron Rodgers,
I'm sure would acknowledge this. If his offensive line has
(16:49):
a bad game, he's getting the crappied out of him.
It doesn't matter in the larger context, and even on
his offensive side of the ball, if the DBS, which
was the case against Tampa Bay, couldn't make plays on
balls in the air against Tom Brady, like they basically
took away the opportunity for him to to be able
to to succeed there. So that's the Aaron Rodger story.
(17:10):
By the way, I think he's going to Denver. Do
you think he stays in Green Bay? And sort of
reading the tea leaves, how would you project the story ends, Well,
probably not more than one year. And I think, you know,
I don't know what Vegas is saying. I don't know
if you've got that pulled up, but didn't seems like
the likely outcome, and sooner seems like more likely than later.
That's definitely they're ready for this. We're talking. We can
(17:34):
talk about the Aaron Rodgers side, but also, regardless of
which side you're coming down on, the Packers made an
epic miscalculation on how many good years of football Aaron
Rodgers had left when they drafted Jordan's love and maybe
those things are intertwined, and he's such a grudge guy
that he performed at such an incredible level partly because
of the choice they made in the first round. That's
certainly a argument you could make. But the idea that
(17:57):
Aaron Rodgers only had a couple of years left. I
think has been thrown out the window based on his
performance in and that's a pretty substantial miscalculation as it
pertains to drafting Jordan's love by the Packers. Agree. All right,
So that's the Aaron Rodgers story. We talked about your
Dallas Cowboys um in general. I talked about this on
my show the other day. I'm curious if you would
(18:19):
agree as somebody who did a sports talk radio show,
if I you told me right now, I can only
draft three topics. NFL is my number one topic, meaning
sports topics in general. Number two topic would for me
would be college football. Number three topic for me would
be the NFL Draft. The NFL Draft, for the first
time ever, will outrated the Oscars. It is the second
(18:41):
highest rated NFL draft, the one that just took place
on Thursday and Friday and Saturday that we have ever seen.
What do you think about my trio of rankings there?
Why in an era when it seems like so much
else as being challenged in sports, do you think the
draft continues to ascend? I would draft the topic in
the exact same order. I'm a little bit surprised you
(19:03):
took them in that order. Um, you know, I I
acknowledge like if you took all of my buddies and
where they're in their life, they wouldraft college football first.
College football is my favorite. Well it's a good point,
but I know for the audience that I have to
talk to, there are certain segments of the population that
don't care at all about college football. So one of
the things over over five or six years is i've
(19:25):
done this show is I have leaned more into the
NFL than I would on a personal fandom basis because
I got to talk to guys in New York and
I got to talk to guys in I don't know,
Idaho who may love an NFL team, but they don't
necessarily care at all about Alabama against LSU. Right, So
balancing out the audience, uh, from a regional perspective versus
(19:46):
a national perspective. That's where my audience is. From my individual,
perfect per perfect weekend. Oh my god, it's college football.
I mean, college football to me is the greatest thing
that America does. But I understand that everybody out there
doesn't agree with me. Profess really professionally, by the way,
and you you you you know, professionally, Lebron belongs. You're
drafting topics that resonate. He belongs in that. I don't know.
(20:10):
He might be out the the NFL draft because year round.
So that's just a professional calculation, not what I enjoy
talking about. Yeah, you drafting me what I enjoy talking about.
It's the same three you identified professionally. You and I
both know Lebron is a ratings topic, and so the
public likes talking about Lebron. Nothing else really outside of
the NBA besides Lebron, but Lebron and the NFL draft
(20:33):
lives in people's minds for talk radio and television for
about a month. That's about how long for me. I'll
be honest. I did my first mock draft. I read
my first mock draft probably in November December. Yeah, that's
not true. That's not true. I've already looked at Yeah,
that's a funny. Like I was talking with Furman, who
gets driven insane by all the mock drafts, and he
(20:55):
was like, the best thing about the NFL draft On Thursday,
starting as the mock drafts are done, I said, are
you kidding? The first round mocked draft are going to
come out going to that weekend? Yeah, to see exactly
how everybody's going to be projecting, because that train never
stops chugging, and it's it's a pretty interesting one. What
do you attribute the second part of that question that
I asked to the NFL draft surging as so many
(21:18):
other sports and so many other American sort of television
institutions in general are struggling. Why has that last year?
Maybe you can say, hey, there's nothing else on, but
the past two years have been the highest rated drafts
in the history. Well, I think I read it on
OutKick dot com that the draft outrated the Oscars and
in the demo beat the Oscars, which, yeah, which is
(21:39):
pretty wild. Yeah. Um. I attributed to the the NFL
being king a that as you drafted your topics a
moment ago and you correctly pulled out the NFL even
as compared to Lebron, which I mentioned is absolutely king.
And by the way, within the NFL, if you're one
to really key the audience into what goes on quarterbacks
inside the NFL or what you talk about, that's right,
(22:01):
and the draft offers hope for every NFL franchise. It's fun.
I can't explain it. Watching the draft and seeing the
way it falls and breaks your way for your team
is fun. And then everybody's watching where the next franchise
quarterback goes. It's just you know what, man, and nobody's
getting up there, and I'm not doing this gratuitously. I
believe this. Nobody's getting up there and hammering me with
their nonsense politics. They're just not doing it. So it's
(22:24):
pure entertainment for me for three days, for most people
for one night, it's pure entertainment. Here's the staff. By
the way, doub just sent it to me. The most
watched events in sports non football since Hiatus last March, right,
Baylor Gonzaga seventeen million viewers. Men's college basketball Gonzaga U
c l A. That incredibly iconic Jalen Sugg shot to
(22:48):
end that game. The Kentucky Derby that just happened on Saturday.
The NFL Draft. I mean, that is pretty wild. That
kind of puts it into context. Right. The best thing
that college basketball has to offer, the best thing probably
that horse racing has to offer offer better than anything.
By the way, almost all of the others are World
Series games, the Masters, and the Kentucky der w last year. None,
(23:13):
no NBA here, but the NFL Draft not just beats
the Oscars, but beats the NBA Finals, the World Series,
and nearly beats every other sport the apex of their sport.
So I'm gonna just ramble a couple of thoughts here.
I saw again on OutKick about college basketball beating the NBA,
(23:33):
which blew my mind. I think that is fascinating because
college basketball offers you no name recognition, you don't know
any of those guys, and yet it's out raking rating
the NBA. That's fascinating. And by the way that I'm
sorry to cut you off it for people out there
who don't know. The National Title game had nearly ten
million more viewers, even though it was Baylor Gonzaga not
(23:54):
exactly to powerhouse I means small relatively speaking, religious institutions
Jesuit and Baptist in the National Title Game. Nearly ten
million more people watched the n c Double A Championship
game than any game of the NBA Finals between the
Lakers and the Heat last year. That is just fascinating.
So I also was blown away by you saying the
(24:14):
Kentucky Derby rated so well, what's going on with the
Derby and the draft? Partially as compared to the NBA
is scarcity. Bottom line is, you're doing something once a year,
more people care than if you're doing something maybe two
times a year. That's just the way it is. And
they know that. The guys on the floor or on
the track, or or on the stage of the NFL Draft,
they know they care more, so they care more. Um.
(24:35):
The last thing is um and you and I've probably
discussed this in the past, but again this is behind
the curtain, behind the the wall of the sports media,
and I think a lot of people do know this.
The NBA is over indexed because big media companies own
their rights. The amount of India coverage you get is
not reflective of the demand out there. That's just the
(24:56):
bottom line truth. Um, you know, And it's that's reflex
to the ratings. People don't care about the NBA as
much as popular culture would make you believe they care
about the NBA. Yeah, it is an interesting, Uh, it
is an interesting idea, um to kind of think about
because there is a new storyline in the NBA A
lot and I think sometimes the natural discourse on a
(25:18):
show like that, you were on a lot first take,
You need a new topic every day, and the NBA
is at least providing that there's typically something that can
be grabbed there. But the result is it way over
index is discussion relative to viewership, if that makes sense. Yeah,
And on the opposite of that specion of baseball, yeah,
generates zero discussion. That's yet you just mentioned when you
(25:41):
were rattling off the ratings. I think you also said
World Series in there above the NBA Finals, right, crushed it. Yeah,
crushed it. And and so baseball is fascinating Will because
and I've talked about this quite a bit on the show,
baseball dominates the NBA in local markets. I'll give you
an example, just tossing this one out. The Anna Braves
are way more popular than the Atlanta Hawks in the
(26:04):
city of Atlanta and surrounding, you know, demo area where
people are watching sports. But the NBA is far more
popular in the Atlanta area than Major League Baseball would
be on a national level. Because, as you mentioned before,
everybody has a strong opinion of Lebron James, not that
many people have that strong of an opinion of Mike Trout.
(26:25):
Now maybe that's starting to change a little bit because
there's been some great series between the Padres and the
Dodgers big stars, Fernando Tatis, Junr, Mookie Betts, the Trevor
Bauer going back and forth with with Tatis. All of
that is kind of the the sizzle that Major League
Baseball has typically not had compared to the NBA. Are
(26:46):
certainly the NFL or college football, where everybody can kind
of have an opinion on a particular national game even
if their local team isn't isn't involved. Baseball is intensely
popular regionally, not necessarily trans lating wise nationally. Yeah, and
the NBA, and this this will take as full circle
back to the NFL, because it's the best of both worlds.
(27:08):
The NBA is not just a national sport, but it's
one where people get affiliated. They throw their fandom to
individuals instead of teams. Largely, Um, I don't know about you,
but a guy like me and I am an NBA fan,
but but I'm a Maverick fan, like I care about
the Dallas Mavericks and I love Luca don Chech, I
truly do. But if he leaves the Mavericks, my fandom
of him will wayne significantly. But most NBA fans follow
(27:31):
players they root for players, and that's why it's a
national sport, and by the way, why it's a discussion
based sport because personalities can be discussed. The NFL takes
that regional love of baseball, that personality and national player
recognition and all of that and combines both, so the
NFL you have the best of both worlds. That's right,
that's right, that's really well said. I mean, I went
(27:53):
away to college in Washington, d C. And at that time,
the team that is now known as the Washington Football Team,
the Redskins, dominated Washington, d C. Area, whether it's you know,
Maryland suburbs of d C, Virginia suburbs. Everybody was all
in on the Redskins. And still you could also talk
about the larger context of the NFL, but they were
seeing it through the prism of the Redskins. And that's
(28:14):
true for pretty much every single NFL market in the country.
Like Washington Football Team. Do you like that if it's
not gonna be Redskins, would you rather be Washington Football
Team or Washington Generals or whatever it's gonna be. I
would like Washington Monuments. I understand that's kind of stupid,
but I'm thinking that maybe we helped to protect the
monuments if we at least name the football team after them.
(28:34):
So inevitably when people are like, we've got to tear
down the Jefferson Memorial because of Sally Hemmings, or you know,
the Lincoln Memorial has to go because of some you know,
flawed logic and Lincoln's thinking in the eighteen sixties. That
defends people in the So I think wedding the monuments
to an team might actually protect us. I like Washington
(28:55):
football team, and here's why. I like Pin States uniforms. Yeah.
I like jin Eric almost to the over the top boringness.
You know, like we've been this way forever and we're
not gonna usfl trick out our uniforms. This is who
we are. There's something so generic about watching football team
that it becomes attractive to me. Uh, last question for you,
(29:15):
and we're talking to Wilkin six to ten am Saturday
Sunday on Fox and Friends. You can also listen to
him on the Wilkaine podcast and he joins us on
Wednesdays in the final hour of the program. A lot
of people tweeted us about this, and I saw it.
We debated whether there would be anything on Twitter that
would get a draft pick a lot of attention and
or negative attention UH and ended up happening for Zach
(29:37):
Wilson on some level. Although I do think that people
are starting to tire of this story because I didn't
see it covered in a big way on the espns
of the world. Now, maybe I missed it, but I
think you probably also would agree that it wasn't a
massive story. But people went back through and I don't
know what they were expecting a b y U quarterback
from Utah to his political opinions to be, but it
(29:58):
would be a pretty big upset if you are a
Mormon student attending b y U and you're a huge
Bernie Burrow right. Not to say there aren't some of them, right,
but in general, if you were telling me, hey, a
b y U kid who grew up in Utah, what
are his politics likely to be? I would say, yeah,
he probably votes for Republicans. And so that appears to
be the case with Zack Wilson. They tried to go
(30:19):
through and look and say, hey, look this guy was
supporting UH Donald Trump in UH and now he's going
to New York, and they tried to turn it into
a story. So that blipped up, blew up a little bit,
didn't turn into a major, you know, leading discussion point.
But there was at least one story associated with the
draft pick. I saw people tweet you and I about
that as well. I think if we want to look
(30:40):
at some little ray of hope in society today, it's
that that story did not take off. There's going to
be some creetan, this sportswriter out there who wants to
do it. But the fact that it didn't take off
a little ray of hope. Quick plug here, man. Last
time you and I talked, we talked about how Lebron
is so divisive in this country in the latest Will
Kine podcast. I just want to say you something I
think you'll find a fascinating one and one man in
(31:01):
this country is responsible for the lives that have produced
death and destruction in our streets. One man made the
country believe that hands up, don't shoot was a thing,
said Jacob Blake, was unarmed, said mckea. Bryant, was unarmed,
had that Dante Right was killed intentionally. One man gets there,
first tells the lies, and then they chanted in the
streets as buildings are burned, That man is Ben Crump
(31:22):
and I'll tell you all about it in the latest
Wilcaine podcast. Oh that's fast, fascinating, tease, good stuff. As
always a man, look forward to next week. This is
outkicked the coverage with Plate Traffics. Hey, it's Ben, host
of The Fifth Hour with Ben Mallory along with my
trustees sidekick David Gascon. Would mean a lot to have
(31:44):
you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking
one in God's name is the Fifth Hour? I'll tell
you it's a spin off of that Ben Maller show,
Cold Hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture
if you will a world will we chat with captains
of industry in media, sports, more every week exploring some
amazing facts about human nature and more. Let's to the
(32:05):
Fifth Hour with Ben mallow on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. First of all,
wil Kaine, I mean, I think that's gonna be one
of the best conversations that you hear in sports talk
radio anywhere. Did a fantastic job with the ESPN, now
has television for Fox News and continues to do his
podcast breaking down everything in the world of sports and politics.
(32:25):
That's just a good job of a discussion. But as
we were talking, I'm just really fascinated by how wildly
popular the NFL Draft has been over the past two years.
And you can say last year, Okay, maybe the NFL
got a little bit of a bump because there was
no events going on because people were so locked up
(32:45):
in their homes and they didn't have anything else to do.
And I understand that argument, but I also think that
hasn't really translated for a lot of other sports. And
I think again, if you look at what happened with
this year's ratings, it's the second highest rated NFL draft
of all time. Now, there were some sexy stories where
these quarterbacks gonna go, what is the expectation with the
(33:07):
third overall pick for the San Francisco forty Niners. Uh,
there were a lot of good topics, I would say,
surrounding the five quarterbacks and more certainly Aaron Rodgers parachuting
in uh into the middle of the draft drama did
not hurt things. But to me, it is kind of
a testament two people just wanting to be entertained and
(33:29):
to have a happy story because to me, there's two stories,
three stories really for sporting events that you wouldn't anticipate
doing phenomenally well. That did phenomenally well during the pandemic
era of I'm gonna tell you what those three things were. First,
the NFL Draft, you've heard me talking about it. How
about Tiger Woods and Peyton Manning against Phil Mickelson and
(33:54):
Tom Brady. Even though there was a rain delay last May,
it was one of the most watched golf events ever
and it just involved two NFL quarterbacks and two iconic
golfers in Woods and Mickelson. And I think that tells
us an interesting story about why that drew attention. I'm
(34:15):
gonna tie all these together. And then the other one
was the Last Dance documentary. Do you remember the Michael
Jordan's Arab Bulls nine nineties documentary that aired on ESPN
for whatever it was three or four straight Sundays. I
think it was three straight Sunday's double episodes. The Jordan's
documentary of the nineties era Bulls almost outrated Lebron and
(34:40):
the Lakers going up against the Heat in the NBA Finals.
Why did those three things do so well? I think
it's joy I think people choose joy in sports in
particular when things are tough, and if you really break
(35:02):
it down, it's got me thinking coming out of that
Will Kine conversation. Those three events, it's not like that's
the greatest golf pairing combo forsome ever to exist. Right.
It's not as if the Last Dance documentary was the
greatest documentary that's ever been done, although it was really entertaining.
(35:25):
And it's not as if the NFL draft over the
past couple of years has been seismically different than it
is in most years. I mean, we have a guy
walking to a podium and reading a name and then
bear hugging whoever that person is. But if I look
at those three and think what tied them together, it's joy,
(35:46):
it's optimism, it's the idea of fun. I think fun
doesn't go out of style, and I think sports over
the past several years has gotten so self serious that
a lot of the fun is being stripped away from
the entertainment of sports. And instead of talking about, uh,
(36:09):
the fun of an athletic event, we talk about somebody kneeling,
or we talk about somebody uh. It's something that is
not sports related in any way and isn't pure fun
And I just want you to think about that is
fun in sports being undersold to the masses and is
(36:31):
fun a subject that has a mass appeal right now,
particularly coming out of COVID after the craziness of I
think the answer is probably yes. I'll be out tomorrow,
will have a guest host. I should be back on Friday.
I am playing schedule too, in a golf tournament with
John Daily among others, down in Birmingham, Alabama. We talked
(36:55):
a little bit about it. Uh, it's still gotta see
what's gonna happen with the weather. But I am out.
I'm traveling down to Birmingham for that event that is
scheduled to happen. So I'll be out tomorrow. I'll come
back on Friday and break all that down for you.
I appreciate all of you hanging out with us. This
is out kick will be back tomorrow, just without me.
I'll be back on Friday on Fox Sports Radio.
Outkicked the Coverage with Clay Travis Live every weekday morning
from six to nine a m. E stone three to
six am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Finds your local
station for Outkicked the Coverage at Fox Sports Radio dot Com,
or stream us live every morning on the I Heart
Radio app by searching FS are you're listening to Fox
(00:23):
Sports Radio. I was kind of looking. We talked about
Rookie of the Year odds. We talked about Aaron Rodgers
and the drama surrounding the Packers and the Broncos maybe
making a run after Aaron Rodgers. But I'm also intrigued
by a lot of these rookie quarterbacks and look, Trevor
Lawrence and Zack Wilson seems certain to be penciled in
(00:44):
to be starters week one in season. What happens with
the three guys that are theoretically starters who now have
younger quarterbacks that have been drafted underneath them. Jimmy g
has now got Trey Lance, cam Newton has now got
Mac Jones, and Andy Dalton now has Justin Fields. We
(01:09):
talked a lot about the teams adding the young quarterbacks.
We haven't really talked that much about the reaction of
the veteran quarterback, and Jimmy Garoppolo to me, seems the
most likely of these three veteran quarterbacks to actually start
for the entire year. I think that the San Francisco
forty Niners are going to have Jimmy G as their
quarterback barring injury, and then they'll go to Tray Lance
(01:33):
next season. I think this will be a little bit
of a Patrick Mahomes and Alex Smith type situation. But
what kind of career does Jimmy Garoppolo have going forward?
How many teams are going to be interested in him
as their guy? Is there anyone I think of the
three veterans that had rookie quarterbacks drafted, Jimmy G has
(01:56):
the best future as a starting quarterback. But I'm not
sure it's that good of a future. So let's put
a pen in that one. Think about it for a moment.
Cam Newton kind of a surprise. I'll be honest with you.
I did not anticipate Cam suddenly getting the gig again
for the New England Patriots after the performance that he
(02:17):
had in last season. Last in touchdowns, last in yards
per game. For anybody who started ten or more games.
I didn't think Bill Belichick was gonna bring him back.
Now there are some extenuating circumstances, Cam got COVID. You
had all the issues surrounding uh, the number of players
who opted out of the New England Patriots. And by
the way, the Patriots had almost no offensive weapons. Now
(02:39):
they've got Hunter Henry John hu Smith among others, and
so this should be a drastically improved I would think
offense just based on those tight ends alone. But what
do you think Cam's real reaction was when he saw
mac Jones falling? Because Cam had to be rooting like
(03:00):
heck for mac Jones not to be sitting there for
fifteen for the New England Patriots. Because, as I said
earlier in the show, if you told me right now
over under, I think there's a decent chance that mac
Jones is starting around the midpoint of the season, and
I'm not sure if that happens, that Cam Newton is
ever a starter in the NFL again. And so he
(03:23):
had to be looking at this situation year two with
the New England Patriots. Josh McDaniels second year in an
offensive system as his opportunity to demonstrate that he still
had the m v P caliber swagger that would allow
him to be a starting quarterback in this league. Because
I've been talking about this for a long time. I
love Cam Newton. I've enjoyed watching him play for years.
(03:44):
I think that Cam Newton had one of the greatest,
probably the second greatest college football season that I've ever
seen a quarterback have. Number one, by the way, Joe Burrow,
Number two Cam Newton, And I think Cam Newton has
had a tremendously successful quarterback career. You remember when that
kid taunted him and it turned into kind of a story.
I think Cam Newton in many ways has not been
respected enough. Heisman Trophy winner, national champion m v P
(04:08):
of the NFL takes his team to the Super Bowl
and they go eighteen and two or seventeen and two
or whatever the heck there record was that year. I mean,
it was an incredible season that Cam had. But I
also feel like Cam Newton, especially now with Mac Jones
on the Patriots, is effectively done as a starting quarterback
in the NFL. I don't know how many other options
(04:30):
there would have been for Cam Newton if Bill Belichick
hadn't brought him back and the least, and Butmcam I
would put second there behind Jimmy Garoppolo, and that maybe
they're somewhere where it makes sense for him to go.
The one that makes the least sense to me is
Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton did not have a good year
filling in for Dak Prescott, even with an incredible cadre
(04:53):
of wide receivers, and now he's gonna go to the
Bears and I think probably start week one unless he
looks awful, and Justin Fields will come in a little
bit later, because I think it's always easier to bring
in the rookie quarterback after a few weeks than it
is to start the rookie quarterback. If he struggles and
doesn't look very good, then do you go back to
(05:15):
the veteran. That's a difficult dynamic, I think oftentimes, and
can hit the confidence of the rookie quarterback who was
stepping into a really difficult role. So I think Andy
Dalton basically his career is over and he had to
be hoping, just like Cam Newton had to be hoping
that the Bears were not going to be able to
(05:36):
trade up and get Justin Fields. I guarantee you he
was like, Hey, Broncos, how about you take a quarterback?
Hey Panthers, how about you take a quarterback? Lions, are
you really sure you want to roll with Jared Goff?
Are you really sure about that? And so, of these
three guys that I think are going to be eventually
passed to me, the only guy that has got a
(05:59):
career potential really in a substantial way is Jimmy Garoppolo
Cam Newton. I feel like as soon as mac Jones
was drafted, it was basically it for Cam as a
starter in the NFL, because I just don't see a
lot of teams that would be interested in bringing him in. Now,
they might bring him in to compete, like, right, the
Houston Texans have no quarterback. Next year, they might bring
(06:20):
in a couple of veterans, assuming Deshaun Watson has truly
done there as I think he is. But the number
of NFL teams that would be interested in Jimmy Garoppolo,
Cam Newton or Andy Dalton are dwindling. And three of
them just said, yeah, we're not really that interested in
you when they made the decision to go draft, respectively,
Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields, which is exactly
(06:41):
what we just saw happen. And so to me, Cam
Newton versus Mac Jones, that's Auburn versus Alabama and Jimmy
g Uh, Jimmy G's gonna start. But Andy Dalton trying
to figure out how to hand the reins to Justin Fields.
It's a tough situation, not an easy dynamic for those
veteran quarterbacks. This is outkicked the coverage with Clay Travis
(07:07):
will Kine. He is with us now. You can follow
him on Twitter at wil Kaine six to ten am
Eastern on Fox and Friends Saturday and Sunday morning. Also
has the will Kaine Podcast. And he is a diehard
Dallas Cowboy fan. And well, I gotta give you credit.
I love you. Know. Lots of fans have opinions on
who their team should take in the first round, but
(07:27):
you were breaking down who you thought the Cowboys should
take in the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth round.
How would you assess? You know? Now, as we come
up on I guess six days since the first round
of the NFL Draft, the Cowboys overall, it is very
defensive heavy draft in general. This may be normal human
reaction to the draft but I start out with disappointment.
(07:51):
I didn't like it. I'm like, who are these guys? Clar,
You're right? Like I pay attention to the fourth fit
the sixth round, I read Dane Bruegler's Beast Draft Guide.
I everybody, I can't tell you. I sit here and
I watched tape. But what I am is, I'm like
a computer that takes in every piece of draft information
and compiles it into my consensus of what I want.
(08:11):
And the Cowboys were far away from that. They kept
picking guys. I'm like, who that's like two rounds away
when all these other guys that I've fallen in love
with for the past few months are available. So I
didn't like it, but normal human reaction. I've given myself
a couple of days and I'm starting to get excited
about Chauncey Gholston whoever he is. Right, It's funny I
(08:32):
saw I. I saved this because I thought I would
hit you with it. I mean you might have seen
this on Twitter as well. This was the early round
Cowboy picks and I'm gonna scroll through uh and see
if I can find all. Right, this is Matt Miller,
who is NFL draft scout. He said Cowboys round three
versus my board. Pick seventy five. He ranked him to
osa and I can't even pronounce his full name. You
(08:53):
just mentioned him. Pick eighty four, Chauncey Gholston, he ranked
him two d and forty two. Pick Nasha on right,
he ranked him three fifteen And I'm reading from his tweet.
I was saving this for you could be there, right
and I'm wrong. But never had this happened before, so, uh,
you know, like it's always interesting, you know, everybody has
their own. The draft is as much art as it
(09:14):
is science. But it is interesting to see these immediate
reactions from people who spend a lot of time more
than even you or I spending uh, you know, sort
of looking at the overall draft perspectives. The only thing
about that is and by the way, I like Matt.
I think Matt Miller is great. Um, I think the
only problem with that is I saw somebody refer to
this play the industrial draft complex. What happens is everybody
(09:38):
starts forming a big board, and then there's group thinks,
so yes, does Matt Miller's board look like Dane Brugler's,
does Dame Brukler's look like Daniel Jeremiah's and what happens
is and all these guys are individually great. I'm not
questioning any of them, but if you start looking, you're like, well,
I have Naean right as a sixth rounder, but Dane
Brugler has him as a second I must be off.
So they all right kind of getting into the same play.
(10:00):
And it may just be. It may just be the
Cowboys are off on a totally different board and they're
right in the group. Industrial draft complex is wrong, That's
all I can hope at this point. Well, that's what
the Raiders argue every year, and it could be worse.
I mean the Titans, my team drafted a guy in
the fourth round who had been arrested for assault the
day before of a woman and didn't know about it,
which is kind of vintage Titans, you know, like just
(10:22):
absolutely absurd and ridiculous situation. All Right. The other story,
even with the draft going on, that has just taken
over everything in the world of sports, and we can't
stop talking about it because there's so much interest. Aaron Rodgers,
from your perspective, will do you find yourself allied more
with Aaron Rodgers or the Green Bay Packer perspective? Here,
(10:42):
where does this story go from? Here? I find myself
allied with the Green Bay Packers. But let's go through
this a couple different ways. I remember when I was
on ESPN, I feel like Aaron Rodgers, like so many
other debates, began to symbolize more than just Aaron Rodgers.
In other words, I would have these debates Max Kellerman
and he would talk about most talented quarterback of his lifetime.
(11:05):
Now maximize disagreements ran deep. Okay, I mean cross topic
pollination of disagreements. But I've always been a guy who
loved Tom Brady. Whereas you could say his natural talents
compared to his his fellow prose was less, but he
was more of a self made man in terms of
football accomplishments, where a Rodgers had all this talent, but
(11:28):
yet it added up to weigh less with him. I
just didn't like that character as much as I liked
the character of of of Tom Brady. That being said,
Aaron Rodgers is super talented, He's also moody. He's a
personality conflict waiting to happen. I think history has proven
that out. So with Rogers you know, in order to
get to the place where you're kind of team Rogers
(11:50):
versus team Packers, you just have to value talent so
far above everything else that you forgive personality conflicts. You
forgive a lack of accomplishments compared to what he can do.
You forgive him going off script and sort of being
a little not totally, but a little uncoachable in that way.
I don't forgive those things in the same way. So
I talked about this with Shannon Spake in the first
(12:11):
hour of the program today, and I said, when you
look at athletes, guys like Aaron Rodgers who have never
been married, have no kids. We know because it went
public during the Bachelor in other aspects with his brothers,
and his family has relatively limited relationships of a deep
nature with his family. Based on all the history out
(12:32):
there right now, Guys like that don't really exist very
much in sports or otherwise. You talked about maybe a
prickly personality. How does that factor in here in terms
of what Aaron Rodgers might be willing to do in
this dispute with the Packers. In other words, how much
of it is personal versus professional? I would think a
lot the guy who just described this one that would
(12:53):
hold a grudge personally, right, who who gets his feelings
hurt to be real um and would want to want
to act upon those feelings you. In other words, it's
none of this is surprising. It's somewhat to be expected.
We thought it was a Mike McCarthy problem. Clearly it
wasn't a Mike McCarthy problem. It's a Maaron Rodger's problem,
new coaching staff, new GM over the last several years.
(13:16):
This is something that follows him around. And people have
made that joke and I don't remember it's Sarah Silverman
joke or or whoever it might be. But if you
keep having bad roommates over and over, maybe you're the
bad roommate. Right. It is interesting too because I don't
know if you have single guy friends who are approaching
forty years old and have never been married. But at
(13:37):
some point the world becomes so wrapped up in you
that you can't see the larger universe. And we're since
we've talked off the air, you've got kids that are
playing little league sports or whatever it is, and uh,
and you've got events that you have to make it too,
and a huge percentage. I would say of our audience
either has kids or grandkids that they're regularly chasing around,
(14:00):
shepherding around in other words, like we might have jobs
that matter in some sense of the word, but really,
like in my household, I'm the least important person in
my house right and like and I think that helps
to I always say, you can have serious opinions, but
not take yourself that seriously. And I remember Ray Allen
had a great line once after I think it was
(14:22):
Game six, when he hit the three to force a
game seven, uh for the Heat back in the day,
and they were like, hey, how are you going to
celebrate and he said, I don't know. My wife's still
gonna make me take the garbage out. And that was
just such a great line because you know, you think
of guys up on a pedestal and at times bringing
them back into the real world can be important. And look,
(14:42):
Aaron Rodgers supremely talented, there's no doubt about that, But
I question how much of a real world life he
has when it's just him and he seems to not
have a ton of people with deep connections in his life.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I'd say two
things in response, Um, I like what you said. I
like one thing, Um, take what you say seriously, but
(15:04):
don't take yourself seriously. I've always tried to live by that.
And and and again, you know you're My relationship is interesting
because we've only really talked off their handful of times.
But I noticed this from you about you from afar
um you, I think you live by that same credo,
like like, I'm what I'm saying, I believe and I
take very seriously. But for you to make fun of
me or tell me I'm wrong or whatever, I don't
(15:26):
take that that seriously. I can laugh at my very
I think that's very key. It's a charming thing. It's
an attractive thing, meaning people want to be around people
like that. Don't take yourself so seriously. I don't have
made this point. Who have stayed single this long? It's
aint there's something going on there, right, Yeah? Absolutely, And
(15:46):
they've tailored their life to their ideal vision, you know
what I mean. Like they have the house the way
they want it, they have their social life the way
they want it, they make the bet the way they wanted.
Everything is them driven because there's no one else to
interfere with it, so imagine that in a locker room. Yes,
the best, There's no doubt Aaron Rodgers is the best
(16:07):
in that locker room, one of the best in the league.
It's pretty hard to start going. You know what, what
you have to say offensive coordinator, you head coach, you
wide receiver, you, offensive lineman. Well, you have to say
it's really important. Perhaps I should compromise my tavored life,
my tailored expectation of what you have to say. That's hard, Yeah,
And I think you raised a good point about the
(16:28):
locker room perspective, where there's always that disconnect between hey,
team success and individual success, and oftentimes in football in particular,
they can be very tied together because no matter how
good of a football player you are, it's a challenge
to be one of eleven guys. Even if you have
an incredible job, do an incredible job. And Aaron Rodgers,
I'm sure would acknowledge this. If his offensive line has
(16:49):
a bad game, he's getting the crappied out of him.
It doesn't matter in the larger context, and even on
his offensive side of the ball, if the DBS, which
was the case against Tampa Bay, couldn't make plays on
balls in the air against Tom Brady, like they basically
took away the opportunity for him to to be able
to to succeed there. So that's the Aaron Rodger story.
(17:10):
By the way, I think he's going to Denver. Do
you think he stays in Green Bay? And sort of
reading the tea leaves, how would you project the story ends, Well,
probably not more than one year. And I think, you know,
I don't know what Vegas is saying. I don't know
if you've got that pulled up, but didn't seems like
the likely outcome, and sooner seems like more likely than later.
That's definitely they're ready for this. We're talking. We can
(17:34):
talk about the Aaron Rodgers side, but also, regardless of
which side you're coming down on, the Packers made an
epic miscalculation on how many good years of football Aaron
Rodgers had left when they drafted Jordan's love and maybe
those things are intertwined, and he's such a grudge guy
that he performed at such an incredible level partly because
of the choice they made in the first round. That's
certainly a argument you could make. But the idea that
(17:57):
Aaron Rodgers only had a couple of years left. I
think has been thrown out the window based on his
performance in and that's a pretty substantial miscalculation as it
pertains to drafting Jordan's love by the Packers. Agree. All right,
So that's the Aaron Rodgers story. We talked about your
Dallas Cowboys um in general. I talked about this on
my show the other day. I'm curious if you would
(18:19):
agree as somebody who did a sports talk radio show,
if I you told me right now, I can only
draft three topics. NFL is my number one topic, meaning
sports topics in general. Number two topic would for me
would be college football. Number three topic for me would
be the NFL Draft. The NFL Draft, for the first
time ever, will outrated the Oscars. It is the second
(18:41):
highest rated NFL draft, the one that just took place
on Thursday and Friday and Saturday that we have ever seen.
What do you think about my trio of rankings there?
Why in an era when it seems like so much
else as being challenged in sports, do you think the
draft continues to ascend? I would draft the topic in
the exact same order. I'm a little bit surprised you
(19:03):
took them in that order. Um, you know, I I
acknowledge like if you took all of my buddies and
where they're in their life, they wouldraft college football first.
College football is my favorite. Well it's a good point,
but I know for the audience that I have to
talk to, there are certain segments of the population that
don't care at all about college football. So one of
the things over over five or six years is i've
(19:25):
done this show is I have leaned more into the
NFL than I would on a personal fandom basis because
I got to talk to guys in New York and
I got to talk to guys in I don't know,
Idaho who may love an NFL team, but they don't
necessarily care at all about Alabama against LSU. Right, So
balancing out the audience, uh, from a regional perspective versus
(19:46):
a national perspective. That's where my audience is. From my individual,
perfect per perfect weekend. Oh my god, it's college football.
I mean, college football to me is the greatest thing
that America does. But I understand that everybody out there
doesn't agree with me. Profess really professionally, by the way,
and you you you you know, professionally, Lebron belongs. You're
drafting topics that resonate. He belongs in that. I don't know.
(20:10):
He might be out the the NFL draft because year round.
So that's just a professional calculation, not what I enjoy
talking about. Yeah, you drafting me what I enjoy talking about.
It's the same three you identified professionally. You and I
both know Lebron is a ratings topic, and so the
public likes talking about Lebron. Nothing else really outside of
the NBA besides Lebron, but Lebron and the NFL draft
(20:33):
lives in people's minds for talk radio and television for
about a month. That's about how long for me. I'll
be honest. I did my first mock draft. I read
my first mock draft probably in November December. Yeah, that's
not true. That's not true. I've already looked at Yeah,
that's a funny. Like I was talking with Furman, who
gets driven insane by all the mock drafts, and he
(20:55):
was like, the best thing about the NFL draft On Thursday,
starting as the mock drafts are done, I said, are
you kidding? The first round mocked draft are going to
come out going to that weekend? Yeah, to see exactly
how everybody's going to be projecting, because that train never
stops chugging, and it's it's a pretty interesting one. What
do you attribute the second part of that question that
I asked to the NFL draft surging as so many
(21:18):
other sports and so many other American sort of television
institutions in general are struggling. Why has that last year?
Maybe you can say, hey, there's nothing else on, but
the past two years have been the highest rated drafts
in the history. Well, I think I read it on
OutKick dot com that the draft outrated the Oscars and
in the demo beat the Oscars, which, yeah, which is
(21:39):
pretty wild. Yeah. Um. I attributed to the the NFL
being king a that as you drafted your topics a
moment ago and you correctly pulled out the NFL even
as compared to Lebron, which I mentioned is absolutely king.
And by the way, within the NFL, if you're one
to really key the audience into what goes on quarterbacks
inside the NFL or what you talk about, that's right,
(22:01):
and the draft offers hope for every NFL franchise. It's fun.
I can't explain it. Watching the draft and seeing the
way it falls and breaks your way for your team
is fun. And then everybody's watching where the next franchise
quarterback goes. It's just you know what, man, and nobody's
getting up there, and I'm not doing this gratuitously. I
believe this. Nobody's getting up there and hammering me with
their nonsense politics. They're just not doing it. So it's
(22:24):
pure entertainment for me for three days, for most people
for one night, it's pure entertainment. Here's the staff. By
the way, doub just sent it to me. The most
watched events in sports non football since Hiatus last March, right,
Baylor Gonzaga seventeen million viewers. Men's college basketball Gonzaga U
c l A. That incredibly iconic Jalen Sugg shot to
(22:48):
end that game. The Kentucky Derby that just happened on Saturday.
The NFL Draft. I mean, that is pretty wild. That
kind of puts it into context. Right. The best thing
that college basketball has to offer, the best thing probably
that horse racing has to offer offer better than anything.
By the way, almost all of the others are World
Series games, the Masters, and the Kentucky der w last year. None,
(23:13):
no NBA here, but the NFL Draft not just beats
the Oscars, but beats the NBA Finals, the World Series,
and nearly beats every other sport the apex of their sport.
So I'm gonna just ramble a couple of thoughts here.
I saw again on OutKick about college basketball beating the NBA,
(23:33):
which blew my mind. I think that is fascinating because
college basketball offers you no name recognition, you don't know
any of those guys, and yet it's out raking rating
the NBA. That's fascinating. And by the way that I'm
sorry to cut you off it for people out there
who don't know. The National Title game had nearly ten
million more viewers, even though it was Baylor Gonzaga not
(23:54):
exactly to powerhouse I means small relatively speaking, religious institutions
Jesuit and Baptist in the National Title Game. Nearly ten
million more people watched the n c Double A Championship
game than any game of the NBA Finals between the
Lakers and the Heat last year. That is just fascinating.
So I also was blown away by you saying the
(24:14):
Kentucky Derby rated so well, what's going on with the
Derby and the draft? Partially as compared to the NBA
is scarcity. Bottom line is, you're doing something once a year,
more people care than if you're doing something maybe two
times a year. That's just the way it is. And
they know that. The guys on the floor or on
the track, or or on the stage of the NFL Draft,
they know they care more, so they care more. Um.
(24:35):
The last thing is um and you and I've probably
discussed this in the past, but again this is behind
the curtain, behind the the wall of the sports media,
and I think a lot of people do know this.
The NBA is over indexed because big media companies own
their rights. The amount of India coverage you get is
not reflective of the demand out there. That's just the
(24:56):
bottom line truth. Um, you know, And it's that's reflex
to the ratings. People don't care about the NBA as
much as popular culture would make you believe they care
about the NBA. Yeah, it is an interesting, Uh, it
is an interesting idea, um to kind of think about
because there is a new storyline in the NBA A
lot and I think sometimes the natural discourse on a
(25:18):
show like that, you were on a lot first take,
You need a new topic every day, and the NBA
is at least providing that there's typically something that can
be grabbed there. But the result is it way over
index is discussion relative to viewership, if that makes sense. Yeah,
And on the opposite of that specion of baseball, yeah,
generates zero discussion. That's yet you just mentioned when you
(25:41):
were rattling off the ratings. I think you also said
World Series in there above the NBA Finals, right, crushed it. Yeah,
crushed it. And and so baseball is fascinating Will because
and I've talked about this quite a bit on the show,
baseball dominates the NBA in local markets. I'll give you
an example, just tossing this one out. The Anna Braves
are way more popular than the Atlanta Hawks in the
(26:04):
city of Atlanta and surrounding, you know, demo area where
people are watching sports. But the NBA is far more
popular in the Atlanta area than Major League Baseball would
be on a national level. Because, as you mentioned before,
everybody has a strong opinion of Lebron James, not that
many people have that strong of an opinion of Mike Trout.
(26:25):
Now maybe that's starting to change a little bit because
there's been some great series between the Padres and the
Dodgers big stars, Fernando Tatis, Junr, Mookie Betts, the Trevor
Bauer going back and forth with with Tatis. All of
that is kind of the the sizzle that Major League
Baseball has typically not had compared to the NBA. Are
(26:46):
certainly the NFL or college football, where everybody can kind
of have an opinion on a particular national game even
if their local team isn't isn't involved. Baseball is intensely
popular regionally, not necessarily trans lating wise nationally. Yeah, and
the NBA, and this this will take as full circle
back to the NFL, because it's the best of both worlds.
(27:08):
The NBA is not just a national sport, but it's
one where people get affiliated. They throw their fandom to
individuals instead of teams. Largely, Um, I don't know about you,
but a guy like me and I am an NBA fan,
but but I'm a Maverick fan, like I care about
the Dallas Mavericks and I love Luca don Chech, I
truly do. But if he leaves the Mavericks, my fandom
of him will wayne significantly. But most NBA fans follow
(27:31):
players they root for players, and that's why it's a
national sport, and by the way, why it's a discussion
based sport because personalities can be discussed. The NFL takes
that regional love of baseball, that personality and national player
recognition and all of that and combines both, so the
NFL you have the best of both worlds. That's right,
that's right, that's really well said. I mean, I went
(27:53):
away to college in Washington, d C. And at that time,
the team that is now known as the Washington Football Team,
the Redskins, dominated Washington, d C. Area, whether it's you know,
Maryland suburbs of d C, Virginia suburbs. Everybody was all
in on the Redskins. And still you could also talk
about the larger context of the NFL, but they were
seeing it through the prism of the Redskins. And that's
(28:14):
true for pretty much every single NFL market in the country.
Like Washington Football Team. Do you like that if it's
not gonna be Redskins, would you rather be Washington Football
Team or Washington Generals or whatever it's gonna be. I
would like Washington Monuments. I understand that's kind of stupid,
but I'm thinking that maybe we helped to protect the
monuments if we at least name the football team after them.
(28:34):
So inevitably when people are like, we've got to tear
down the Jefferson Memorial because of Sally Hemmings, or you know,
the Lincoln Memorial has to go because of some you know,
flawed logic and Lincoln's thinking in the eighteen sixties. That
defends people in the So I think wedding the monuments
to an team might actually protect us. I like Washington
(28:55):
football team, and here's why. I like Pin States uniforms. Yeah.
I like jin Eric almost to the over the top boringness.
You know, like we've been this way forever and we're
not gonna usfl trick out our uniforms. This is who
we are. There's something so generic about watching football team
that it becomes attractive to me. Uh, last question for you,
(29:15):
and we're talking to Wilkin six to ten am Saturday
Sunday on Fox and Friends. You can also listen to
him on the Wilkaine podcast and he joins us on
Wednesdays in the final hour of the program. A lot
of people tweeted us about this, and I saw it.
We debated whether there would be anything on Twitter that
would get a draft pick a lot of attention and
or negative attention UH and ended up happening for Zach
(29:37):
Wilson on some level. Although I do think that people
are starting to tire of this story because I didn't
see it covered in a big way on the espns
of the world. Now, maybe I missed it, but I
think you probably also would agree that it wasn't a
massive story. But people went back through and I don't
know what they were expecting a b y U quarterback
from Utah to his political opinions to be, but it
(29:58):
would be a pretty big upset if you are a
Mormon student attending b y U and you're a huge
Bernie Burrow right. Not to say there aren't some of them, right,
but in general, if you were telling me, hey, a
b y U kid who grew up in Utah, what
are his politics likely to be? I would say, yeah,
he probably votes for Republicans. And so that appears to
be the case with Zack Wilson. They tried to go
(30:19):
through and look and say, hey, look this guy was
supporting UH Donald Trump in UH and now he's going
to New York, and they tried to turn it into
a story. So that blipped up, blew up a little bit,
didn't turn into a major, you know, leading discussion point.
But there was at least one story associated with the
draft pick. I saw people tweet you and I about
that as well. I think if we want to look
(30:40):
at some little ray of hope in society today, it's
that that story did not take off. There's going to
be some creetan, this sportswriter out there who wants to
do it. But the fact that it didn't take off
a little ray of hope. Quick plug here, man. Last
time you and I talked, we talked about how Lebron
is so divisive in this country in the latest Will
Kine podcast. I just want to say you something I
think you'll find a fascinating one and one man in
(31:01):
this country is responsible for the lives that have produced
death and destruction in our streets. One man made the
country believe that hands up, don't shoot was a thing,
said Jacob Blake, was unarmed, said mckea. Bryant, was unarmed,
had that Dante Right was killed intentionally. One man gets there,
first tells the lies, and then they chanted in the
streets as buildings are burned, That man is Ben Crump
(31:22):
and I'll tell you all about it in the latest
Wilcaine podcast. Oh that's fast, fascinating, tease, good stuff. As
always a man, look forward to next week. This is
outkicked the coverage with Plate Traffics. Hey, it's Ben, host
of The Fifth Hour with Ben Mallory along with my
trustees sidekick David Gascon. Would mean a lot to have
(31:44):
you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking
one in God's name is the Fifth Hour? I'll tell
you it's a spin off of that Ben Maller show,
Cold Hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture
if you will a world will we chat with captains
of industry in media, sports, more every week exploring some
amazing facts about human nature and more. Let's to the
(32:05):
Fifth Hour with Ben mallow on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. First of all,
wil Kaine, I mean, I think that's gonna be one
of the best conversations that you hear in sports talk
radio anywhere. Did a fantastic job with the ESPN, now
has television for Fox News and continues to do his
podcast breaking down everything in the world of sports and politics.
(32:25):
That's just a good job of a discussion. But as
we were talking, I'm just really fascinated by how wildly
popular the NFL Draft has been over the past two years.
And you can say last year, Okay, maybe the NFL
got a little bit of a bump because there was
no events going on because people were so locked up
(32:45):
in their homes and they didn't have anything else to do.
And I understand that argument, but I also think that
hasn't really translated for a lot of other sports. And
I think again, if you look at what happened with
this year's ratings, it's the second highest rated NFL draft
of all time. Now, there were some sexy stories where
these quarterbacks gonna go, what is the expectation with the
(33:07):
third overall pick for the San Francisco forty Niners. Uh,
there were a lot of good topics, I would say,
surrounding the five quarterbacks and more certainly Aaron Rodgers parachuting
in uh into the middle of the draft drama did
not hurt things. But to me, it is kind of
a testament two people just wanting to be entertained and
(33:29):
to have a happy story because to me, there's two stories,
three stories really for sporting events that you wouldn't anticipate
doing phenomenally well. That did phenomenally well during the pandemic
era of I'm gonna tell you what those three things were. First,
the NFL Draft, you've heard me talking about it. How
about Tiger Woods and Peyton Manning against Phil Mickelson and
(33:54):
Tom Brady. Even though there was a rain delay last May,
it was one of the most watched golf events ever
and it just involved two NFL quarterbacks and two iconic
golfers in Woods and Mickelson. And I think that tells
us an interesting story about why that drew attention. I'm
(34:15):
gonna tie all these together. And then the other one
was the Last Dance documentary. Do you remember the Michael
Jordan's Arab Bulls nine nineties documentary that aired on ESPN
for whatever it was three or four straight Sundays. I
think it was three straight Sunday's double episodes. The Jordan's
documentary of the nineties era Bulls almost outrated Lebron and
(34:40):
the Lakers going up against the Heat in the NBA Finals.
Why did those three things do so well? I think
it's joy I think people choose joy in sports in
particular when things are tough, and if you really break
(35:02):
it down, it's got me thinking coming out of that
Will Kine conversation. Those three events, it's not like that's
the greatest golf pairing combo forsome ever to exist. Right.
It's not as if the Last Dance documentary was the
greatest documentary that's ever been done, although it was really entertaining.
(35:25):
And it's not as if the NFL draft over the
past couple of years has been seismically different than it
is in most years. I mean, we have a guy
walking to a podium and reading a name and then
bear hugging whoever that person is. But if I look
at those three and think what tied them together, it's joy,
(35:46):
it's optimism, it's the idea of fun. I think fun
doesn't go out of style, and I think sports over
the past several years has gotten so self serious that
a lot of the fun is being stripped away from
the entertainment of sports. And instead of talking about, uh,
(36:09):
the fun of an athletic event, we talk about somebody kneeling,
or we talk about somebody uh. It's something that is
not sports related in any way and isn't pure fun
And I just want you to think about that is
fun in sports being undersold to the masses and is
(36:31):
fun a subject that has a mass appeal right now,
particularly coming out of COVID after the craziness of I
think the answer is probably yes. I'll be out tomorrow,
will have a guest host. I should be back on Friday.
I am playing schedule too, in a golf tournament with
John Daily among others, down in Birmingham, Alabama. We talked
(36:55):
a little bit about it. Uh, it's still gotta see
what's gonna happen with the weather. But I am out.
I'm traveling down to Birmingham for that event that is
scheduled to happen. So I'll be out tomorrow. I'll come
back on Friday and break all that down for you.
I appreciate all of you hanging out with us. This
is out kick will be back tomorrow, just without me.
I'll be back on Friday on Fox Sports Radio.
Hosts And Creators
Brady Quinn
LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
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