Power to the People

Episode Transcript
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the zone here without kick the coverage. Thank you for
starting your Thursday morning with us wherever you may be
across the country. The college coaching carousel continues to spend
in a ridiculous fashion, several different updates to hit on

(00:45):
the Thursday, where the NFL Week twelve action begins as well,
with the Redskins playing against the Dallas Cowboys. To five
and six teams, I think it's fair to say at
this point both of these teams have to win the
final five games of their season to make the playoffs.
If they don't, then effectively the season is over. What

(01:06):
is going to happen there? As Kirk Cousins playing his
final five games for the Redskins, What's up? With Dak
Prescott and his and his inability to be anywhere near
the same caliber player without with Ezekiel Elliott, without Ezekiel
Elliott as he was with Ezekiel Elliott. That's the big
storyline for Thursday's game. Several things to let you know

(01:27):
about on the roadmap. We have Barrett Siley schedule to
join us from CBS Sports here in the first hour
to talk the college football coaching carousel as well as
the college football playoff, which is really gonna be in
the spotlight coming up this weekend. As well. In our
three will travel out to the desert and talk to
my guy Todd Ferman about all the conference title game odds,

(01:48):
about the odds of which teams are gonna make the playoffs,
and we'll also discuss with him the NFL Week twelve actions.
So that is the roadmap. If you're downloading the podcast,
as millions of you are doing, this is the biggest
t week that OutKick has ever had in podcast history.
I want to let you know as you start off,
they are listening. That's what we got rolling appreciate as
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(02:11):
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dominant or more successful. Thank you for all of the
work that you guys do making sure that OutKick is
the most trusted and most dominant place to start your
morning anywhere in the country. All right, here is where
we are in the coaching search season. I told you

(02:34):
guys a couple of weeks ago that Jimbo Fisher was
gonna leave Texas A, leave Florida State and take the
Texas A and M job. That has become increasingly more
and more clear every day since I initially broke that
news and told you I thought it was gonna happen,
and every other every day since has become more awkward.
And that has continued to make things more and more

(02:54):
strange because a lot of people I don't even think
no this game is going on. Florida State rescheduled their
canceled game due to the hurricane against Louisiana Monroe to
this weekend, so Florida State still has a game left.
The Seminoles are five and six, trying to get to
six and six and Bowl eligibility, and they play this
weekend as nearly a four touchdown favorite, so a Jimbo

(03:14):
would basically be done already, but for the fact that
Florida State has moved its final game to this weekend.
What happens if Jimbo leaves for Texas A and M.
It's a fascinating question. Lots of reports that the Florida
State fan base uh An administration has already turned his
attention to Willie Taggart of Oregon, and there's some decent

(03:36):
amount of attention that would suggest that's true because Oregon
is trying to get Willie Taggart signed to an extension.
Willie Taggart, of course, was the coach of South Florida.
If Willie Taggart says no, where does Florida State look, Well,
that's an intriguing question because you would think still that
Nebraska is holding out hope for Scott Frost, and if

(03:56):
that happens, man, you would see I think a lot
of people be interested in the Florida State job, but
exactly who would be their guy is an intriguing question
that there doesn't seem to be an easy answer for.
If and I'm saying, if we have a situation where
Willie Taggart is the top choice, and he says no.
So that's a big story to pay attention to. I

(04:17):
think Florida State job is good enough that there could
be some top coaching candidates, some top coaches at existing
jobs turned their eyes that way that maybe you would
be surprised to hear about. In other news, the stumbling, drunk, incompetent,
totally uh idiotic coaching search being led by John Curry
at the University of Tennessee continues to bumble its way around.

(04:41):
Last night, at a basketball game, Tennessee fans were chanting
fire Curry. They were also chanting, we want Lane Kiffin.
And right now it appears that their two fan bases
hoping and praying that Dave dore In the head coach
of NC State, chooses to not accept their offer. You

(05:01):
know you've made a bad coaching higher when you have
two different fan bases at play here, n C State
and Tennessee, and both fan bases are hoping that the
reported offer between Tennessee and NC State to try and
keep Dan Doran is rejected. N C State fans are like, pleased,
leave for can for Tennessee so we can go out

(05:23):
and get a better coach. And Tennessee fans are like,
please say no to us so that we can finally
force our administration to go get a better coach. Now,
my position on this is pretty straightforward. I think there
are a bunch of guys that would take the Tennessee
job that are much better fits than Dave Doran would
have been. The Jeff Brams situation yesterday was a total
mess um. But out there right now, I believe who

(05:45):
Tennessee could one get. Okay, Bobby Petrino undoubtedly would come
to Knoxville and take over that job. Lane Kiffin would
come to Knoxville and take over that job. Mike Leach
would come to Knoxville and take over that job. I
think you could make a real run at Kevin someone.
I think there's a strong likelihood that he would do it,
as well as Mike Norvell. I just named five guys

(06:09):
that would come right off the top of my head
with zero doubt at all about their interest in the
job and the likelihood that you could get them. All
of them are better than Dave Dorian. I just I
don't understand how this ends up in a complex situation.
I don't know what athletic directors do I don't know

(06:29):
how they end up misreading and mishandling this situation to
such an extent. Let me give you a stat. Tennessee
fired Butch Jones after five years in the SEC. Butch
Jones record after five years in the SEC fifteen and
twenty four. Okay, that's his record in SEC games. You

(06:50):
play eight SEC games a year, you play eight A
c C games a year. That's kind of an intriguing
position to right. So Dave Dorian has been at NC
State at the exact same amount of time, So apologize.
Let me restate that Butch Jones fourteen and twenty four
in five years of SEC play, Dave dorn is fifteen

(07:14):
in twenty five in five years in the A C C.
So effectively, what we have here is Tennessee firing Butch
Jones to replace him potentially with the A C C
equivalent of Butch Jones. How much sense does this make
in any way? It seems to me to be utterly
incompetent to make a hire like this. And meanwhile, it's

(07:37):
maybe not as incompetent as reports out of Arizona State
where they are saying that Herm Edwards, Yes, the former
ESPN analyst on television who has not coached since nineteen
eighty nine in college football, is purportedly their coach to
hire the Sun Devils. Now Arizona State fans have to

(07:59):
be just like, maybe they're just totally not paying attention.
They're out on the golf course, they're hanging out, they're
having a good time. But I this is one of
the most incompetent hires that I've ever heard before as well,
and there's so many options out here that I don't
understand how it's possible to have made this decision. It
seems utterly incompetent to me at Arizona State. At Tennessee

(08:23):
will see what Florida State ends up doing. Nebraska, I
think it's fair to say, is just biding their time,
believing that they're gonna get Scott Frost. But how if
you're Tennessee, have you focused on Dave Dorin When Mike
Leach is out there, when Bobby Petrino is out there,
when Lane Kiffin is out there, when Kevin Sumlin is
All of these guys are infinitely better than Dave dorn

(08:45):
And I feel like at this point in time that
Tennessee would be better off just having an American Idol
style audition and letting every coach come out and make
his pitch, and then letting every Tennessee fan just text
in his results and his top choice, and I'll be
one of the judges, Paula Abduel style and sit there
and make a argument as to why or why not

(09:08):
should make a smart decision. There. The absurdity rolls on.
So we'll keep you updated throughout the show with any
updates on any of these coaching hires. Do we have
that Florida State question and answer session last night? Queued
up and ready to go? Guys, all right, listen to this.
Jimbo Fisher is continuing to do his Coaches Show. Anytime

(09:29):
a coach is gonna leave, and he keeps doing his
Coaches Show, It's really always very strange. While a fan
got up and asked a very legitimate question of Jimbo Fisher,
and that question was, if you're telling us all these
years stay loyal to the program, how can you not
be loyal to the program? Listen to what it sounded like,

(09:50):
we're watching a lot of your press conferences that how
you would talk about how we need to be committed
to the program and keep sharing for the team, and
we need to be talking about that, about loyalty to program.
So I'm wondering, where's the loyalty to the program? It's
here today, it's they shoved him out of the way

(10:16):
and took the microphone out of his hand. But I
actually thought that was a completely valid question. And here's
something that I think is worth considering. You know what,
when I criticized the higher and UH of Greg Ciano,
the defensive coordinator Ohio State, a lot of people in
the national sports media came out and they ripped me.
And I think this is evidence of the difference in

(10:38):
the way that we treat college football coaches compared to,
for example, NFL coaches, and I think a lot of
it has to do with the parochial status of most
college coverage and media. Let me give you an example. Um,
if you are an NFL head coach, you are in
one of thirty two decent sized media markets in this country.

(11:00):
As a general rule, the larger the media market, the
less deference is given to anyone in a position of power.
That's true across the board. If you are the mayor
of New York City, the media that covers you, gives
you a lot less deference than they do the media
that might cover I don't know, uh, the Spokane, Washington mayor.

(11:20):
And that's because in general, media talent is corresponding to
the overall size of a market, because paychecks increase the
bigger the market you're in, and as a result, in general,
the more intelligent or more talented the media would be
in the larger markets. Now, there's also a lot of
dumb people who are in the media in large markets.

(11:41):
To like, if there's fifty media members who show up
for an average New York Giants media event, yes, the
high end of the media is gonna be really good.
The bottom end is not gonna be very good either.
They're just gonna be more of them. But in college towns,
the coaches can run those towns like dictators. Nick Saban
is a great example. Nick Saban did not like coaching

(12:03):
in the NFL because the players were a lot more
powerful and because the media was a lot tougher, and
so when he did things that were questionable, he did
not like the fact that the media held his feet
to the fire and that the players didn't have to
acquiesce immediately to his power. So he went back to Alabama,

(12:23):
where he effectively became a dictator. He can say whatever
he wants, he can do whatever he wants, and nobody
can challenge his power. Not the players, not the media
by and large, which is owned right by the university.
Because if you have to cover a program every day
in college sports, they will restrict your access. They will

(12:44):
not allow you to talk to the people you need
to talk to. You can't do your job, which is
how we end up with situations like Jimbo Fisher. And
by the way, f s U is a fascinating example
because what's crazy about the media at f s U
is they all carried water like crazy for Jimbo Fisher
and Jamis Winston and everybody else down at Florida State

(13:06):
during all the scandal that surrounded Jamis Winston remembers the
national media that parachuted in and actually said, wait a minute,
how come of Tallhassee police department wasn't doing anything here?
How come Jimbo Fishers not answering question. All those things
were covered up by the local media and now that's
starting to turn on Jimbo because the loyalty is different.
But in college sports, so long as you win. You

(13:29):
can get away with anything because the media doesn't really
question you very aggressively because by and large you're talking
about media in small towns that probably for the most part,
is made up of people who were fans of that
particular school. What you see in the NFL is the
players are more popular and the media are smarter and

(13:50):
more popular and more likely to hold people to their
feet to the fire. And what's interesting is even the
national media in college football is ely to buy into
the fact of what they're being told by by coaches.
They carry water four coaches, and that's how you end
up with me saying, hey, I think Greg Ciano is
a bad higher and Tennessee fans agreeing with me and

(14:13):
keeping that higher from happening. Turning into a controversial moment
in college athletics because all of the media out there
just carries water for the coaches until the coaches start
to lose, and then they stop carrying water. This is
I think one of the most fascinating things to think
about from the perspective of how college athletics gets covered.

(14:34):
I'll talk about this a little bit with Barrett Sulley.
He's joining us UH in about five minutes from Atlanta.
We'll talk about everything surrounding the college football playoff as
well as the college football coaching search. All of that
will happen in the next segment. I appreciate all of you. Also,
if you want to go ahead and load up the
phone lines, I'll come to you after the Barrett Sulley

(14:54):
interview Jason martineau Field your calls eight seven seven nine
six three six nine. I'm Clay Travis. You're listening to
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Talking about how dominant the show has been, this week
Monday Show is now the most downloaded show in the
history of out Kick, and we may break that record
with Tuesday, Wednesday, and who knows Thursday as well, depending
on all the craziness and zanianus that can happen throughout

(16:42):
the show. Today we bring in Barrett Sally. Uh. Barrett
joined us on Monday, I believe it was or Tuesday.
I can't even remember. This week feels like it's lasted
like ten years. Um, Barrett, is this the craziest college
coaching season you've ever seen? And we haven't even gotten
yet the f s U job officially open? Yeah, Clay,
it's it's definitely up there. When you've got John Curry

(17:04):
just grossly mismanaging what's going on in Tennessee, you know
that that sort of takes the cake. Um, everything else
outside of that is is not terribly wacky, But what's
happening in Knoxville is is just it's almost unbelievable at
this point. How how a grown a group of adults,
or an adult in John Curry can mismanage something so badly.

(17:27):
I mean, it's I did a podcast needing Adam Famer
to a college football hangover podcast, and we did an
entire episode one time on the need for a Department
of common sense. Now everybody should have a common sense department,
like what whether it be college football teams, corporations, whatever,
just like a bunch of dudes that sit in high
level meetings and here these ideas, and when they hear

(17:49):
something as stupid as Higher Greg Ciano, they just step
in and say, no, hard pass, do something else. Why
do you think the college football media so many people
defended Greg Ciano as a good Higher. I have no idea.
It's that. That's the That's the saddest thing to me
is that Tennessee fans are getting ridiculed by national media

(18:10):
members because of how they reacted and it got fun.
I think unfairly that you and others, but mostly you,
lad this Twitter mob of Tennessee fans to go act
the Higher and quite literally, Clay, that's not what happened
at all. There was I mean there it was almost
universal disdain for the Higher from everybody, long before people

(18:35):
connected the dots back to the Jerry Sandusky thing. It's
a bad Higher from a football perspective, playing and simple,
and that's what people lashed onto. Now you can argue
whether or not the validity of of of how Tennessee
fans revolted is or wasn't proper whatever, and look, I
mean that's that's a separate conversation. The fact of the
matter is it was a terrible decision and Tennessee fans

(18:58):
are so dank for us traded with administrations that have
absolutely no idea how to run a college athletics department
that they are. They're now taking their department back, and
good for them. I think they should be applauded for that.
You know what's interesting, Barrett is um, I've been talking
to people, and the analogy I'm drawing is, remember when

(19:19):
Ron Zook got hired and immediately Florida Gator fans said,
this cannot be the guy that we have chosen to
replace Steve Spurrier with. But their only recourse back in
whatever it was like two thousand two ish was to
start a website called fire run zook dot com. And
that was like fifteen years ago, almost now, But it

(19:41):
seems so antiquated because you're like, oh, they'll just start
a website and it'll be funny, and remember how much
coverage fire run zook dot com got. To me. This
is what's interesting is fifteen years later, Florida fans like,
if suddenly you were able to go back in time
and just shift everything fifteen years forward. Florida Gator fans
would never have allowed ron Zook to be introduced as

(20:04):
the head coach of the Florida Gators if we were
in the modern era, I mean, think about that. What
I find so fascinating about it is Florida Gator fans
would have revolted like Tennessee fans did about this Greg
Siano higher and as a result, I honestly believe this.
If ron Zook had been hired in twenty seventeen, he
would have never been a head coach of the Gators.
The reason why I'm using as an example is Florida

(20:26):
fans then had to wait two and a half years
for their initial verdict on ron Zook to be proven.
I'm curious if you can think how often is the
wisdom of a fan base as a whole. I'm not
talking about the average, you know, like individual fan, but
we believe in the wisdom of crowds very often, right.
Malcolm Gladwell has written an entire book I think about it.

(20:48):
Um there is a general sense that crowds make better
decision as a group. It's kind of the entire basis
for the concept of democracy in this country. Rather than
have ten really smart people sit around and decide who
the leader is, we believe three and twenty three million
people in America should decide every four years. And it's
fractious and it's messy, but that's what democracy is. Aren't

(21:10):
we kind of democratizing now the hiring process for coaches
to And is that necessarily a bad thing to have
more voices involved as as opposed to fewer. No, I
don't think it's a bad thing at all. I mean,
I think it's actually a good thing. And I think
Tennessee fans recognize the need that they looked at the situation, right,
They assessed the situation and said, is Greg Giano the

(21:30):
guy who's gonna go beat Kirby smart consistently? Is he
gonna go beat Dan Mullen at Florida consistently? Is he
gonna go beat Nick Saban every year in the rivalry game?
The answers no, And they're set up with that, and
and they want something better, they expect something better, and
they need something better, and and so no, I I
think that's fine. I think you know, take another example,
you know, two thousand, I guess it was December of

(21:52):
two thousand eight when Jeane Chiswick was hired at Auburn
when he was five and nineteen at Iowa State. Uh,
it was December two thousand and eight. Twitter was sort
of around, but there was you know, a few of
us on there, but not much. Imagine if that happened
now that it's the same thing that would not happen. Now.
You know, Jens has won a national championship, and that's
awesome for him, and the guy has a good career
on TV or whatever. But you know, the fans would

(22:14):
have revolted then too, because you expect better than that,
and especially a championship starved you know, fan base like
Tennessee that has seen just every single turn, every single
month of every year. Their administration is making just ridiculously
bad decisions that basically torpedoed the athletics department. So um,

(22:35):
they they expect better, they want better. And and here's
the thing. You know, part of this is on John
Gruden for you know, basically teasing them a little bit.
But most rational Tennessee fans new John Gruden I don't
think was ever gonna come. The problem is you sort
of went from this extreme high of Okay, John Gruden
is going to be the target to literally no plan

(22:59):
being and and and Plan B was a guy that
you you revolted again, and so there was nothing else,
and so it's it has to be frustrating for Genna.
I feel bad Toenese fans because they they've gone through
so much. I mean, that's what's frustrating. I think about
a lot of this, this hiring search. If you disagree
with the way that your school does it is, how

(23:19):
do you get to Greg Ciano? I mean, nobody else
is trying to hire Greg Ciano. If Tennessee had started,
you know, Gruden, whatever happened there didn't happen there. If
Tennessee had started with Mike Gundy and they had said, hey,
Mike Gundhy will pay you seven million dollars a year,
Mike Gundhy flirts with you again, maybe uses that to
get better facilities, whatever he wants to do, that's fine, right,

(23:40):
And so then you decide you're gonna pass on Mike Gundy.
I have zero issues with that at all. I think
putting the fact that you're willing to spend seven million
dollars a year out there, I don't have any problem
with that. I like the idea that you got the
resources to be able to do it. So then let's
say you moved to Jeff Bram. First of all, I
don't know what happened that the Jeff rom situation. They
should have just gotten it done with produced coach, because

(24:03):
I think that would have been a good higher. But
both of those guys are infinitely better than Greg Siano.
Now somehow they've stumbled their way like a drunk man
in a dark room trying to get back to his bed,
you know, after he goes to the bathroom. Uh. Now
they've somehow stumbled their way to Dave Dorian for some reason.
At NC State and Barrett, you've actually got a situation
where reports are there's an offer out there to him,

(24:23):
and NC State fans are hoping he goes to Tennessee.
At Tennessee fans are hoping he stays at NC State.
If you ever hired a coach, if you ever hired
a coach and the fan base that you're hiring him
from is ecstatic that he's leaving, you should not hire
that coach. That's a bad higher on its pace. I mean,
I don't understand how stupid they could possibly be. It's

(24:44):
the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Now and and here
here's the cherry on top of all of this. Right,
so you mentioned all of that and all that, like,
how do you go from Greg Ciano for two and
a half weeks as your plan be, and then talk
to Mike gund You like, shouldn't be the other way
around on But above all of this is the fact that,
like you said, there's something like a drunk man over

(25:06):
to Dave Dorn and Lane Tiffin is just chilling in Boca.
We had him on this show yesterday. He would take
the job. Not only Lane Kiffin you could get. You
could get Mike Leach, you could get Uh, you could
get You could certainly get Mike Leach. You could a
hundred percent get Bobby Petrino, who would come in and

(25:27):
fix the offense overnight. You know what he's done at
Arkansas and Louisville. He would take the job. I think
you could get Kevin Sumlin. I think you could get
Mike Norvell. I mean all of these, Like, I don't
understand what their thought process could be to just not
take these guys. And by the way, if you reject
all of that, you could go get T Martin and
surround him with an incredible cast of coaches with Tennessee connections,

(25:51):
and at least then you're building something where you think,
I don't know how good T Martin could be as
a coach, but he could be incredible. He would be
a fantastic recruiter. He won a national championship at Tennessee.
They could win potentially at a really high level there
with Dave Dorrin. They're replacing the Butch Jones of the
SEC with the guy. And that's and that's what they

(26:14):
try to do with threat. I don't I don't understand.
And here's the thing, Like, if you want to go
that route, you know Neil Brown at Troy, go get him.
Mike Norvell is fantastic, uh, Scott Sadderfield at app State,
Like there are really good coaches out there that are
waiting their turn. I I just I don't get it
at all. It doesn't make a lick of sense to

(26:35):
me that that this is the path that Tennessee took.
It's it's gross negligence by John Curry. And if if
I just don't understand how he can survive this because
this has been mismanaged far worse than any coaching search
I've ever seen. What about people out there who say
I shouldn't get involved, because there's some people out there
who are like, oh, you've got you know, a big audience.

(26:57):
I mean, millions of people pay attention to what we
do without kick every single uh, every single week. And
some people say, oh, you know, Clay Travis shouldn't get
involved in this coaching surgeon anyway, he shouldn't give his
opinion as aggressively he has people criticize me for doing that.
Should I just shut up and not say anything at
all and allow Tennessee to do whatever they want and
then rip the hell out of him once the decision

(27:17):
is made. I don't understand that, Like I don't understand,
but but is that something that I should do? Because frankly,
there aren't a lot of examples of people like me
who care about which team wins. Look, I grew up
a Tennessee fan. I don't hide from it, and look,
I root for a lot of other teams. You know,
I have great contacts that a lot of different places.
You have everybody who everybody who is a college football
fan grew up with a favorite team. The difference between

(27:40):
me and a lot of other media is I just
come out and say, hey, I still hope the Tennessee
wins every game. That's because I at for the age
of five, I've cared um and I think that's more
honest frankly, because I think people out there can listen
to it and they can understand it. Doesn't mean that
I think I'm totally you know, out to launch. Are
crazy about the decisions that I make, But some people
say I shouldn't have been involved at all. What do
you think as the irony of people in the media

(28:03):
and in other people of places of power opining that
you shouldn't have an opinion about a coaching search, yet
in the next sentence opining about the coaching search is
uh quite hypocritical if you ask me, Yeah, I mean
I think it's crazy. Okay, who do you think FSU hires.
Let's assume Jim Bold leaves and goes to Texas A
and M, which I think is going to happen. Who
does FSU get that is a very good question. Willie

(28:26):
Tagger got that extension, but I don't know how binding
that is right now, or he's got that off Runda
I don't know how binding that is right now, so
I know they want to go after him after that,
I don't know if they know quite yet. Um. You know,
if I had to guess right now, who I think
they can go get. How about somebody like Shad Morris?
How about somebody like that. I don't necessarily think for

(28:48):
the state is as attractive as as some people make
it out to be. I think there's some dysfunction amongst
the ranks there, um, But I do think that they
have um a lot to offer. But I think they
go group of five. I think they go somebody like
Neil Brown or Chad Morris or or somebody like that,
just because I they need a personality switched from Jim.

(29:10):
But there's a reason this thing is going the way
it is right now at Florida State. They need somebody
that is I love it. I would would they do that?
Though I don't know I I love it? I mean,
I look Lane. Here's the thing with Lane right Like
have you had him on yesterday and I've talked him
a few times over the last couple of weeks. Lane

(29:30):
is so unfairly criticized for what happened at Tennessee. You know, yeah,
he had some n C double A issues that it's
whatever it is, what it is, But he left for
his dream job at USC. How many chances was he
gonna get to say yes or no to USC? He
was gonna get one chance and he said yes. And
it was terrible timing they had with scholarship restrictions. We
all know it, but that that he shouldn't be criticized

(29:53):
for that. So um, I'd love it. I'd love Lane
at Florida State. I think you do a tremendous job there,
But I just I don't think that administration is willing
to make that jump. Here's what's fascinating about Lane Barrett.
Let's pretend that he never is the Oakland Raiders coach. Okay,
let's pretend that he's never the Tennessee coach. Let's pretend
that he never is the USC coach, let's head coach.

(30:16):
Let's just pretend that he has worked his way up
over the years at lesser jobs. And then he goes
to Alabama and becomes the offensive coordinator for three years
under Nick Saban and then goes to f a U
and in year one takes a three and nine team
to nine and three and playing for the Conference USA
title on Saturday. Isn't he the number one coaching candidate

(30:39):
in America if he had never been USC coach, if
he had never been Tennessee coach, and if he had
never been the Raiders coach. In other words, you can
leave all of his resume of being a head coach
off the floor. At forty one or forty two years old,
having been for three years a highly successful offensive coordinator
under Nick Saban and then having taken over a three

(31:01):
and nine f a U team and turn them into
nine and three and one eight in a row and
gone eight no in his conference, wouldn't he be the
hottest name in coaching right now? Yes, he'd be. He'd
be Scott Frost. He'd be the guy that's playing in
the conference championship game at the group of five level,
that already has a job waiting for him Saturday night.
And everybody knows that that's exactly who we'd be. Uh

(31:22):
And and that's unfair. Look, you know he got he'll
probably even tell you. I don't know if he told
you this yesterday, but I mean, I know he said
before he he he had a lot on him pretty
quickly and and he didn't know how to handle it,
and he didn't handle it necessarily as well as he
probably could have. But you know, you learn a lot.
You learn a lot under Nick Saban, you learn a
lot just with aide, You learn a lot just with
different perspectives at different schools. And um, and yeah, he

(31:45):
would be the number one head coaching candidate without a
doubt right now in college football. UM, I'd say, even um,
you know you can USC, you know the the USC experience.
I don't understand why he gets good size for that.
He had so much to deal with in terms of
scholarship prostrictions, and he had a ten win season during

(32:06):
that time. Now it wasn't great, but going into this
season lane Kiffin and Brian Kelly, Lane Kiffin had a
higher winning percentage overall than Brian Kelly in college football. Yeah,
that's an amazing stat um. Last question for you, I
need you to be quick if you can. Who wins
the games A C, C, SEC, Big twelve, and Big Ten?
Who do you predict and wins all those conference title games? ACC? Clemson?

(32:28):
I think the Big Ten goes to Wisconsin. I think
the Big Twelve goes to Oklahoma, and the SEC goes
to Georgia. Outstanding stuff as always, Barrett, appreciate you joining us.
We'll talk to you again, probably next week after the
playoff is set. Good stuff made an entire to an
entire segment. Noah nova collapse there. I appreciate it. My
man get healthy, that is Barrett silly. Let me bring

(32:51):
in my guy, Eddie Garcia. Find out what's shaking the
world of sports. All right, claim well, you're talking college football.
Let's start with college football coaching news and Perduey coach
Jeff Braum reportedly withdrawing his name from consideration for the
Tennessee John Tennessee now reportedly targeting NC States Dave Dorian
for their coaching vacancy. Arizona State reportedly finalizing a deal
to make former NFL and coach Herm Edwards our next
head coach, attending approval from the university president, and Oregon

(33:14):
State is named Jonathan Smith is a new head coach.
He's a former quarterback of the Beavers and was most
recently their offensive coordinator at Washington State. In NBA action
over time for the Warriors to be the Lakers in
l A one seven one twenty three Golden State stars
Kevin Durant and Steph Curry. We're back in the line
up from injury. Durant had twenty nine points. Curry had
twenty eight points in the win. Also play of the

(33:34):
Knicks beat the Heat one fifteen to EIGHTI six. Now
New York leading scorer Chris taps Porzingis suffered an ankle
injury in the game. He was carried off the court,
but X rays were negative. Outstanding. Up next, we talk
about your calls reactions. Eight seven seven six three six nine.
This is OutKick the coverage, great news. Quick way you

(33:54):
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(34:14):
donate or call one eight three three sal join um.
There's a lot of uh, a lot of questions. By
the way, I'm gonna open up the phone lines again.
I apologize for not getting to some of you earlier.
Eight seven seven six three six nine. And what we'll
do is we'll take calls to start our too. I'm
not booking any guests for our two, so I'll allow

(34:36):
you guys to all react in an hour to eight
seven seven six three six nine when I bring in
the crew. Now, guys, obviously, this college coaching carousel this
year is particularly messy. But I'm curious on this thesis
that I have. If you are hiring coaches, if you
consider hiring a coach from another program and that program

(35:00):
is excited to see their coach go, can you remember
a hire that has ever existed like that that has
turned out to be successful? In other words, like right now,
If Tennessee had hired Jeff Bram from Purdue, Purdue fans
would have been really upset to see him go. If
Mike Gundy have left Oklahoma State, by and large, most

(35:21):
fans would be upset to see him go. If Texas
A and M hires Jimbo Fisher, I think it's fair
to say most fans would be upset. If Willie Taggart
gets hired from Oregon, I think it's fair to say
people would be upset. Right if Lane Kiffin left f
AU fans would be upset Bobby Petrino left Louisville. I
think fans would probably be upset, although they might then

(35:42):
go hire Jeff Brams, so they might think they're okay.
Basically trying to contextualize that, I think now, if Arkansas
hires Gus malls On away, which I think, I think
the story is unbelievable. You're talking about an sec story
or just a wild swing of events here. I believe
that if that if Auburn loses is to Georgia, Gus
miles On will leave and take the Arkansas job. Really,

(36:06):
I believe if Auburn beats Georgia, there's a good chance
that Gus miles On and Auburn win a national championship.
So you talk about a huge swing based on the
result in one game. If Gus Milson goes out and
Auburn plays like they have against Alabama and Georgia two
of the last three weeks and makes it another win,
then I think Auburn should be considered the favorite to

(36:29):
win the College Football Playoff the way Jared Stidham is playing,
assuming carry On Johnson can come back healthy, all that stuff.
If they lose and Georgia wins, then I think Gus
miles On is going to leave and go to Arkansas.
But my thesis here straightforwardly pretty simple. If your coaches
leaving and the fan base is not sad to see

(36:50):
him go, doesn't that provide pretty clear evidence that you're
doing a bad job of hiring, just regardless of whatever
else you want to do, looking at your xs and ohs,
breaking down the numbers, everything else. Isn't that quintessentially perfect
evidence that you're making a bad higher. Can anybody think
of a situation where that has played out and ended

(37:11):
up in a better place? That is uh coach that
is that people are happy to see go and then
he goes somewhere else and becomes dominant. Can you remember
that ever happening? Jason Martin, I'm looking it up. I'm
trying to find some evidence of it somewhere and I can't, Like,
I haven't found one yet. Can anybody out there? Yeah?
Can anybody out there on Twitter or you can call

(37:32):
in eight seven seven nine six three six nine, basketball, football, anach,
any sport out there? Can you think of a coach
that the fan base that he was hired away from
was ecstatic to see him go, and then he ended
up being dominant or highly successful at the job that
hired him away. I'm using this as an example right

(37:53):
now because Dave Dorin reportedly has an offer from Tennessee
and NC State fans, like usually in these situa wations,
the whole the team that he might leave is like, Man,
I don't want you to leave, Like, I hope we
don't lose our coach here. NC State fans are like, man,
I'd love to see him go after five years, he's
been thoroughly mediocre. I'd be pretty happy if he decided
to go to Tennessee, and Tennessee fans are like, man,

(38:15):
I hope he stays at NC State. That's a sign
that you have done a crappy job of trying to
hire a new coach. If the program that you're hiring
somebody away from isn't sad to see him go, then
you've done a bad job in your coaching search. Guys
out in l A, can you think of anything It
could be? NBA could be Major League Baseball, any sport
where a guy has gotten hired away from a job

(38:36):
and people were excited to see him go, and at
the next job he ended up doing really well or
became dominant. No, I mean no, that doesn't work either.
I was thinking of Byron Scott with the nets remember no,
but no, no, Clay does not remember Byron's odd I

(39:00):
don't remember all the different teams he coached. Well, it's
got I'm thinking, it's gotta be a basketball coach, an
NBA coach. Nothing is coming to mind right off the top.
And you know I'm a Raiders fan, so I've seen
some dreadful coaching situations. Isn't that a baseline? Like I
just I am blown away by the consistent stupidity of

(39:20):
people who are in the hiring business for coaches, and
just as like I, I feel like I can read
this so much better than they can. And I'm asking you, guys,
don't want your calls? Can you think of something like that?
Eight seven, seven nine, six three six nine. I'm opening
up the phones for you for hour too. Then we'll
go out to the desert an hour three with Todd Ferman.
I am Clay Travis. I want to hear from you, guys.

(39:42):
Can you think of a hiring situation where what I'm
talking about pans out where the team that lost him
was excited to see him go, and he ended up
being a success wherever he went. This show is always
a success on OutKick the Coverage. Why from the Geico
Outkicks studios fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or
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(40:03):
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Auto Zone. We're always in the zone here outcake the Coverage.
Thanks for having with us. As we move into our

(40:24):
two eight seven seven nine nine six six three six nine,
Jason Martin is fielding your calls, um. People on Twitter
are reacting, I'm gonna go out to l A and
see if you guys can come up with any names
of the question that I asked, which I think is
a good one. Right now, we have a situation where
reportedly Dave door In at NC State has a Tennessee

(40:47):
offer and NC State is trying to keep him. NC
State fans, by and large are fine with Dave Dorian leaving.
Meanwhile at Tennessee, Tennessee fans our hope being that Dave
Dorian decides not to leave because there's better options out
there for the Tennessee coach. Whether it's Lane Kiffin, whether
it is Mike Leach, whether it is Bobby Petrino, Kevin Sumlin,

(41:12):
Mike Norvell. There are a lot of guys out there
that would take the Tennessee job if Tennessee would just
go offer it to them. Instead, Tennessee now chasing Dave Dorian.
Like I said, the Tennessee coaching search has become the
equivalent of a drunk man trying to find his way
to the bed late at night when he gets up
to go to the bathroom. Um, and right now, but

(41:32):
maybe maybe maybe it's a drunk guy trying to get
up to go to the bathroom. And right now, Tennessee's
just standing in the uh, standing in the closet thinking
they found the bathroom, peeing all over the carpet. That's
where we are right now. So when you actually break
down this situation, what I'm asking is, can you think
of a situation like this that actually turned out well

(41:53):
where a coach was hired by a program, and you
didn't the team that was hiring him, the fan base
was not excited to get him, and the team that
he was leaving the fan base he was leaving was
excited to lose him. L A. Have you guys come
up with any I think j Mart came up with
the best one so far. Mike D'Antoni. Laker fans wanted

(42:16):
to see him go. I'm not sure at the time.
Rocket fans were super excited about did he go directly? Yeah? Well,
he failed in New York, remember, Knicks fans grew wary
of him. Then he came to l A. He tried
to run that high paced offense with the wrong personnel
in in Laker Land. That did not work out, and
now he's killing it in Houston. So right, But was

(42:38):
he fired or did he get Like I don't remember
how that situation happened. Like, if you get fired and
you get hired somewhere else, I think that's a little
bit different than if somebody else comes in and hires
you away. Right, So I don't know, I don't remember.
Thinking you're thinking more of a coach who was stolen
away then, yeah, stolen away or just like you you know,
like their contractor runs out and somebody else comes in

(43:00):
and hires them, and you know, there's again like it's
a little bit harder in pro sports because they actually
hold up two contracts. But I'm just saying, like this
coach left and then he went somewhere else, and the
fan base where he was leaving was like, good riddence,
I'm so glad to see you leave, and the place
that got him was like ecstatic. Some people are sending

(43:21):
me Mark ricked And obviously Mark Rick got fired at
Georgia and it ended up at Miami, but that's a
little bit different because he didn't get hired away, right,
Like Mark Rick got fired, then he's a free agent
and Miami hires him, and Miami was, uh, that's not
the same situation, right, I'm saying because people are like, oh,
think of Mark Rick. No. No, I'm saying. They're in

(43:43):
a job, they end up leaving for another job. When
they leave, the fan base is excited to see them go,
and the place that hired them is not excited to
get them. Because that's where we are right now with
Dave Dorn. And what I'm saying is, have we ever
had a situation like this before that turned out well,
where somebody that a that a family like and and

(44:04):
and the reason I'm using this as an example is
buying large. Most places would prefer in that situation that
you know, you shouldn't be hiring somebody if the fan
base that you're hiring a guy away from is not
devastated to see them go, because that fan base I'm
getting here, like this is kind of a larger context question.

(44:26):
A lot of people in the media will tell you, oh,
this is an awful situation for a fan base to
get involved aggressively in a coaching search. And my question
would be why. They're like, oh, you can't let the
fans dictate the direction of a program. And my question
would be why, why is that a bad thing? The
fans are the consumer, and typically the consumer dictates the

(44:49):
success or failure of most businesses. So this doesn't like
this seems like a lot of people in the media
out there like, oh, you can't let the fans dictate
what decision are made by the program, because if you
do that, it's never gonna work out. And that's literally
the exact opposite of the advice that you would give
to every other business. Think about that. If you're like, oh,

(45:13):
you're making movies. You can't make that new sequel to
Star Wars that's gonna come out and give the fans
what they want. If you let the fans dictate the
kind of movies you make, then you're not gonna make
good movies. Oh really, isn't that the exact? Like every
movie that gets made that I see now, fans are
pretty excited about it, by and large when it comes out.

(45:35):
This is like saying to somebody, Oh, you know, Sony,
you shouldn't make that new Spider Man movie. You can't
let your fans dictate the kind of movies that you're making.
You should make a movie about transgender love affairs in
nineteen forties Berlin. That's what people want right now, That's
what That's what the artist would do. I just find

(45:59):
this fascinating because people are like, oh, you can't let
the fans dictate the decisions that an athletic department makes
or that a team makes. And I'm sitting back and thinking,
isn't the wisdom of the fans better if they had
pulled New York Giants fans? Do you think we should
bench Eli Manning? For the final five games of the

(46:20):
season and replace him with Geno Smith of New York Giants.
Fans would have responded, Hell no, wouldn't that be preferable
to the decision that the Giants made. I've been on
this for a long time. I think that often the
wisdom of crowds is better than the wisdom of a
couple of guys sitting around at the top making a decision.

(46:45):
And in television or movies or frankly, radio, my boss
looks at the ratings, he looks at the podcast downloads
at Fox Sports Radio, and he texts me and says, hey,
you're killing it now. That might correspond with his own
opinion of the show. But if the ratings were down substantially,

(47:06):
and if the podcast downloads were plumbering, wouldn't you expect
him to call me aside and say, Hey, I don't
know what you're saying on the radio every morning, but
every day fewer people are listening to you. It's not
the case every day we have more listeners. But you
would say that guy was doing a bad job if

(47:26):
he didn't pay attention to the numbers, right, my boss,
Why wouldn't you allow the wisdom of crowds to help
guide you. I I just I think this is a
fascinating question because the old school guy who's writing now,
all those people at the national media who've been ripping me,

(47:47):
and you guys know this, I get ripped all the time,
so it doesn't really impact me. But what they're really
saying is you can't listen to people like Clay Travis
or the fans, because if you listen to the fans,
you're gonna your program is gonna be a disaster. I'm
actually wouldn't be more interested in you flipping this on
its head. Shouldn't you listen to the fans more? They're
the consumers. What these guys are arguing is the exact

(48:11):
opposite of every other business. Right now, I got tickets
already to take my kids to the new Star Wars movie.
Do you know why they keep making Star Wars movies?
Because there's a whole lot of demand for Star Wars movies.
Disney is listening to the fans, which is saying to them,

(48:32):
give us more Star Wars movies. And then guess what happens.
They release a new Star Wars movie and they make
a billion dollars and everybody says, hey, thanks for making
this new movie. Thanks for giving us what we want.
Right now, the Tennessee fan base wants Lane Kiffin. If
you are the athletic director of Tennessee, why wouldn't you

(48:54):
just go get Lane Kiffin bring him to Knoxville. If
the fans are are wrong, they're not gonna blame you.
They're gonna say, you know what, we blew this. I
would come on here if Lane Kiffin gets hired at
Tennessee and I come on here in four years and
I'm like, you know what, I was wrong? Lane Kiffin sucked.

(49:16):
I thought he was gonna be really good at Tennessee.
I thought he'd surround himself with a great staff. I
thought he was mature. I thought that he would compete
at a high level in the SEC. And I was wrong.
I come on the radio and I'll tell you if
I'm wrong. I'll tell you if I'm right for sure,
but I'll also tell you if I'm wrong. I'm in
the opinion business. One of the things that I do
is give people what they want. You know. I do

(49:38):
that with my job. When I started out, kicked the coverage,
started writing articles. I was one of the first writers
who would look at analytics and be like, hey, what
do people actually want to read? I'm gonna look at
the data of what I right and allow the market
to help guide me on what stories I write. Doesn't
change my opinion. But if my thesis is you know

(50:01):
what I think people care, I do it on this
show every day, like why do we not talk about
the NBA regular season? Because nobody gives a damn about
the NBA regular season. The data tells me that that's
not my audience. There's not people out there who are like, man,
I can't wait to wake up and go hear what
Clay Travis has to say about the Lakers against who

(50:22):
the hell the Lakers play? Last night? The Lakers played
who the Warriors? Yeah, nobody gives a damn about that.
From my opinion. Now, if I were an NBA insider
and I built my entire show around the NBA, maybe,
But my thesis in general is that nobody gives a
damn about the NBA regular season, and they don't. And
so I'm gonna talk about football during football season. We're

(50:44):
gonna talk about the NFL, We're gonna talk about college football.
That's me allowing the audience out there to help guide
me on my topics. When I did local radio in Nashville,
I said, I never want to talk about hockey. People
are like you, why aren't you talking about hockey? Because
nobody cares about hockey. What did I use as my
guiding point? I looked at the ratings, and I also

(51:04):
used my own intuition. If I was driving around in
the car in this market and I had heard people
talking about hockey anytime other than the playoffs, I'm changing
the channel, you know, when I never changed the channel
college football or NFL talk ever. So I there's a
great line about Jerry Bruckheimer. Jerry Bruckheimer, huge successful Hollywood producer,

(51:30):
makes all the Transformers movies, makes all the Pirates of
the Caribbean movies. Some of the most successful movies of
all time that have been made are made by Jerry Bruckheimer.
And Jerry Bruckheimer was asked, how do you know what
the people want? And in one of the all time
cockiest the lines that I have ever heard delivered by anybody,

(51:52):
Jerry Bruckheimer freaking hundred million air plus said, I am
m the needle. Amazing line and it applies in a
couple of different ways said, well, what does that mean?
I am the new How do you know what people want?
Jerry Bruckheimer, And he said, I am the needle. Now

(52:13):
there's two ways to take that. One is that his
own ability to know what the masses want is so
finally tuned in his brain that he is able to
see what they want and deliver it to them. That's
one way of looking at that answer. There are a
lot of people I think that can do that. I

(52:35):
think my brain is such because of all the data
that I bring in on a day to day basis
that I am capable. If you give me five stories.
You give me five stories, and you say, which of
these five stories will people care about today? I can
tell you. Okay, I can tell you which of the five.
You show me five stories, I'll be like, this is

(52:56):
the one people are gonna care about the most. And
I'm almost infallible on being able to do that. I
can rank them. Well, a lot of people can't do that.
I'm incredibly good at that. That's the Jerry Bruckheimer, I
am the needle. I know what people care about. The
other one is, which is even more cocky, the way
to look at that line, I am the needle can
mean that he's so good at what he does that

(53:19):
he makes people care about what he cares about. And
that's also an incredibly cocky line. And guess what I
can do that too. I could come on with a
story that might not seem like it's very good, and
I can build a whole show around it, and by
the end of it, you guys will be texting me
and tweeting me, Facebook messaging me, emailing me. I never

(53:41):
would have thought that I would have set down and
listen to this show today and cared about this issue,
but you made me care. Both of those are storytelling
related devices. Either you know your market and you deliver
for them, or you're so good at telling a story
that your market finds you even if you don't necessarily
know there's a market for it before. It's fascinating. And

(54:04):
sometimes it can be both. Right now, there's a massive
market for Star Wars. They know the Needle at Disney, right,
we're gonna make another Star Wars movie. But back in
the seventies, George Lucas is like, I've got this idea, which,
if you think about it, sounds kind of crazy. I'm
gonna put a Western in space. We're gonna have a
guy who wears all black and his name is gonna

(54:24):
be Darth Vader. And I've got this other guy idea
Luke Skywalker, and he's gonna be on this random planet.
And there's gonna be two sons in the sky. And
we don't know it yet, but spoiler alert, he's the
son of the evil guy. And I'm gonna create this
story about the conflict between good and evil father and
son set in space, and it's gonna be insanely successful.

(54:49):
And I've also got this guy named Chewbacca, and I've
got this guy named Lando cal Rissian, and I've got
this hot chick named Princess Leia, and I've got this
roguish vagabond named Han Solo, and we got the ship
called the Millennium Falcon. And he creates this entire universe.
He didn't know necessarily that everybody was gonna believe in it,

(55:11):
but he had faith as a creator. This is all
spiraling out of this broad question. Why is it a
criticism to listen to your fans. Shouldn't you trust your
fans the wisdom of the crowd to tell you when
you were making a bad decision. Right now, I am
telling you Tennessee is making a bad decision. They are

(55:34):
trying to hire a guy in Dave Dorin from NC
State that their fan base doesn't want, and that NC
States fan base hopes leaves. That should be the number
one rule of coaching searches. If you're trying to hire
a guy and the fan base you're trying to hire
from hopes that he leaves, you are making a bad decision.
You are somehow losing sight of the larger perspective. Eight

(56:00):
seven seven six three six nine. You guys load up
the phone lines. Am I crazy? Or did I just
make perfect sense? Shouldn't you listen to your customers? Sometimes
the customer is wrong, but the buy and large the
wisdom of crowds is correct. If tons of people show
up at Walmart saying, hey, we want you to carry

(56:22):
crunchy peanut butter, Why don't you have crunchy peanut butter here?
Would you not think it was the height of arrogance
If Walmart said, hey, we don't think you should buy
crunchy peanut butter. You're in the business of entertaining and
providing a service to your fans, just like Walmart's in
the business of providing products. If you heard Walmart CEO

(56:43):
go out and say, hey, we got millions of people
out there telling us we wanted to carry that, that
we should be carrying crunchy peanut butter. But we've decided
people shouldn't like crunchy peanut butter, they should like plain
peanut butter instead. So we're only gonna carry plain peanut butter.
What would happen. You would lose the business of everybody
that wanted crunchy peanut butter. What does Walmart do? They

(57:06):
stock the damn crunchy peanut butter and people buy it.
Crowds typically are good at making decisions. We should rely
on them. There's wisdom in large groups. The entire damn
country is founded on that precept. The college football media

(57:27):
is out there like, you can't listen to fans. We
elect the president of the United States based on fans,
every senator, every representative. The entire basis of our country
is founded on the precept that crowds have wisdom. And
then we get to college athletics and people say, oh,

(57:50):
you can't listen to the fans. You can't listen to
the hundred thousand people who pay money to come sit
in that stadium and listen to what they think about
who the next hire should be. We anti democratize sports.
Why because the people at the top of the food
chain need to believe that they're more intelligent than the

(58:12):
people that they serve. And I just flat out think
that's wrong. Am I crazy? Or did I just reinvent
the damn wheel? Your minds are blown eight seven seven
six three six nine. I believe in the wisdom of crowds.
I believe in the democracy of fan basis. I believe

(58:33):
the University of Tennessee is filled with idiots. This is
OutKick the coverage. Everybody's got it to do. List, drop
off the dry cleaning, pick up some milk. Here's an idea.
Let's add save hundreds of dollars on car insurance. And
the good thing is you don't have to drop off
or pick up anything. All you have to do is
go to Geico dot com and in fifteen minutes you
could be saving fifteen per cent or more on car insurance,

(58:54):
extra money in your pocket. It just may be the
most rewarding to do you do today. So many call
to get to eight seven seven six three six nine.
I left this hour open for you guys to react.
Lots of responses on Twitter. Sorry, I'm about to uh
choke to death here. Um, I can't even keep up
with my Twitter feed right now. The one challenge of

(59:16):
our growth as a show and as a growth at
OutKick in general, is that it's almost impossible for me
at times to even be able to read my mentions.
I used to be a always reading the mentions guy
because I like feedback and I like paying attention to
what people say. And people are already a couple of
people idiots here saying, oh, like on your periscope show, Clay,

(59:39):
you block people. Why are you not listening to the
wisdom of fans? There there's a difference between listening to
the wisdom of an individual fan and listening to the
collective wisdom of fans. And that's a distinction that some
of you probably are not smart enough to understand. Let
me try to break it down on an individual level,
people can have stupid ideas you don't listen to the

(01:00:01):
fan base on an individual level. In other words, if
Joe stops you on the street and says, hey, I
think you need to hire so and so. You don't
necessarily have to listen to Joe. But if Joe is
a stand in for tens of thousands or hundreds of
thousands of other people, then you listen to that. Right.
There's a difference between listening to an individual person and

(01:00:26):
listening to a collective whole like Tennessee, for instance, doesn't
have to listen to my opinion. I could be wrong,
but my opinion is reflected and broadcast larger through hundreds
of thousands of people who agree with me collectively as
a group. I believe in the wisdom of fans because
I believe in the wisdom of groups by and large.

(01:00:50):
I do that in my own career. If if if
I'm going to write an article it's gonna get a
hundred thousand views, then I should write those articles as
opposed to articles they get ten thousand views. Now there's
somebody out there wh's gonna say, well, you've got to
be an artist, and you've got to you've got to
be true to your inner soul, and okay, yeah, good
luck with that. I'm in the business of serving large audiences.

(01:01:15):
If I were in the business of serving tiny audiences,
then maybe I would focus on that. Jason Martin eight seven, seven,
three six nine on, all the lines start ringing at once.
He's like a man trying to put a fire out,
so he's getting all our callers lined up. Am I crazy?
Let's go out to l A, Danny g and Justin?
Am I crazy or brilliant with this analysis? Well? I mean,

(01:01:39):
I see where you're not saying. I see where you're
coming from. I mean, I like NBA talk, though, so
the only thing I did wasn't following with you there
on was how you said nobody cares about regular NBA season.
If I did NBA regular season talk, our ratings would
go down by half. Well, just the main stories. I mean,
I don't want to hear you do an excess nose
and breaking down regional game. The entire NBA regular season

(01:02:02):
is crap until you get to the playoffs. My opinion
ratings reflected, I don't. I don't agree with that. I
like the highlights in the main stories. Who does an
incredible breakdown of daily NBA that has a lot of
people that listen to them on Fox Sports Radio. But
that's not where you're talking about two different things. You're
talking about a break the guys are just NBA NBA guys.

(01:02:26):
The NBA does not move the needle in the regular show.
I would say, I'm a NFL guy, but NBA in
then Major League Baseball. NBA is my third favorite sport.
But I still like caring, you know, and seeing the
highlights and hearing the main stories about the NBA NBA
regular season as a waste. Here's the question, and some
people out there are like, well, how far do you

(01:02:46):
extend that? Now that's a good question. How far do
you extend the wisdom of crowds? I think it's broad,
broad ideas, right, Like I'm not when I decide to
write an article, I'm not saying that every sentence I
should be like, hey do you like this? You like this?
But I should be writing about things or talking about
things that large numbers of people care about, but they
don't dictate my overall opinion within that. Does that make sense? Like,

(01:03:09):
for instance, I think that fans should be involved in
who a head coach is. I don't think that fans
should be involved in what plays that head coach calls
during the course of a game. Like you big, This
is where big pictures matter. If you decide you want
to make a movie about start, you know, Star Wars movie.
I don't think fans should be involved in the individual

(01:03:31):
plot decisions of that movie, but I think, for instance,
who the director of that movie should be. I could
see fans having some impact there. You know, again the
over like getting into the minute details and allowing individual
people to make decisions like that as a group. I
don't think that's smart. But big decisions that are overall substantive,

(01:03:52):
I think that makes total sense. Let's go to some
of your calls. U. Let's go to Tyler in Minnesota.
What's up? Tyler? Really good? Still there? Yeah? I don't
leave alright, alright, pause pause pause, right here, I'm gonna
go to the calls. You guys are gonna have to

(01:04:12):
do better than this. Assume that I'm here. I am
here for three hours every single Monday through Friday. Are
you there? Yeah, I'm here. I'm never leaving. The question
is are you there? Okay, So if you start off
at a call in an answer with me, I already
know that it's not gonna be good. Like I'm just
saying that. My hypothesis is, oh, have we ever had

(01:04:32):
a coach whose fan base wants him to leave another
fan base doesn't want him, and it ends up a
successful higher. Not really any examples of that ever happening.
There are very few examples of me going to a
caller and him saying, hey, are you there? Are we here?
Am I there? And then it turning into a good
call bringing Eddie Garcia, let's get an update. I want
the callers to think about themselves and make plays here.

(01:04:53):
Don't embarrass your families. Eddie Garcia. All right, let's update
the college football coaching news with produced Jemp m reportedly
withdrawing his name in consideration with a Tennessee job. Volunteers
now reportedly targeting NC State's Dave Dorian for that coaching vacans.
The Arizona State reportedly finalizing a deal to make former
NFL A coach Herm Edwards their next head coach, painning
approval from the university president or Oregon State naming Jonathan

(01:05:16):
Smith is their new head coach. He's a former quarterback
for the Beavers, most recently was offensive coordinator at Washington State.
The support brought to you by True Car. With True Car,
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in Clay. A couple of notes from the NFL as
far as quarterbacks go, Jay Cutler gonna start for the
Dolphins against Denver this weekend. The Buccaneer's gonna put Jameis

(01:05:38):
Winston back into quarterback against the Packers. All right, outstanding
info there? All right, Jason Martin, you're saying it was
actually your fault on the caller situation. There are you
accepting blame? Yeah? That was totally on me. I had
to hit the button twice, and I have to do
it kind of rapidly. Him my fingers slipped off and
only hit it once, so only I could hear him.

(01:05:58):
He's gone now, but i'ly I could hear him, So
it wasn't on him. That was on me completely. So
you blew it? All right? So who's up next? Can
I answer your question before you take a call? What
a question? The question you were asking in the last
segment about crowd wisdom? Okay, so I have one issue
with it, well, one fairly big issue with it, which
is this, until people become really big names or big stars,

(01:06:21):
most of the time, the large swath of the crowd
is not going to choose them. Like before Nick Saban
became Nick Saban, how would Nick Saban have gotten a
job if crowds were the ones making that decision. Because
until you're a star, a lot of people aren't gonna
pay attention to you. That's why Dwight Howard was an
All Star long after he should have been in the
NBA because he had a big name. That is my

(01:06:43):
only real qualm idea like, you can include them, but
there's something you have to think about there in terms
of until somebody's a big name, how would we have
ever gotten a Dabo Swinney at Clemson or an urban
Meyer at Florida or any of these places until they
became names somewhere flost higher maybe, But by the time
urban Meyer got hired at what Bowling Green, Utah knew

(01:07:03):
that he was really good and they went and hired him.
And then Florida said, wait a minute, this guy has
been awesome at Bowling Green and at Utah. Let's go
get him. So for the first job. I might agree
with that, but remember Kirby Smarts in the SEC title
game and Georgia fans were like, we want Kirby Smart
even though he's never been a head coach, and they
were willing to fire a one of the most successful

(01:07:24):
coaches of all time and Mark Rick to go get him.
So I do think that it's sometimes the proximity to
greatness can give you some attention as well, like we've
seen with Kirby Smart, lots of guys get the job
if they're the top assistant of Nick Saban or Urban
Meyer or whoever it is, the proximity to greatness theory

(01:07:44):
makes sense. I would agree though that if you are,
for instance, before somebody has become found and recognized this talent,
that's probably where the talent brokers for lack of a
better term, can come in useful. In other words, before
Taylor Swift is a star, there's somebody out there who
has to see Taylor Swift and think this person could

(01:08:04):
be a star. So yes, on that first job, or
on that first actor or actress who gets found and
put on the television for the or the movies for
the first time, that can be useful. But once they
are exposed to the masses, then I think the wisdom
of crowds can be useful. It's a good point that,
for instance, if you you could believe and and and
by the way, that's why I would say I'm not

(01:08:26):
opposed to, for instance, Chad Morris being the coach, the
head coach at Tennessee. Right, Chad Morris is down at
s m U. He doesn't have that long of a
roster of resume as a head coach, and so I
can look at him and say, man, this guy could
be incredible, but he could be just okay. Like I
look at Dave Dorian and I say, this guy's been

(01:08:46):
a head coach at NC State for five years. There's
enough evidence of him being mediocre to believe that he
would be mediocre at Tennessee as well. Right, I mean
that that would be my general theory on a guy
like that. Chad Morris hasn't been very long ahead coach
at s m U. UM. You know, Lane Kiffin is
still only forty one. I think that question about Lane
Kiffin is a great one. Imagine that Lane Kiffin never

(01:09:08):
is a Raiders coach, never is a Tennessee coach, and
never is a USC coach. So imagine that that entire
aspect of his resume never exists and imagine that instead,
you start with Lane Kiffin like he's been working his
way up through the coaching ranks all those years, and
then the first time you hear of Lane Kiffin as

(01:09:29):
a group nationwide is when he becomes the offensive coordinator
at Alabama after three years under Nick Saban as the
offensive coordinator, and after taking the f a U job
and turning that f a U job from three and
nine to nine and three in the first year. Just
in the last four years, what he's done, lane Kiffin

(01:09:51):
would be one of the top coaching candidates in America.
You wouldn't even need to consider anything else that he's done.
And by the way, lane Kiffin still only like forty
two years old. He just got started at so much
of a younger age. And to me, that is a
fascinating example of how you look at a situation. If
Lane Kiffin had never been head coach of USC, never

(01:10:11):
been head coach of Tennessee, and never been head coach
of the Raiders, then he would have been even before
he took the f a U job, he would have
been like Kirby Smart. Everybody would have been trying to
hire him direct to give him a major job coming
from Alabama. It's just amazing to me. All right, let's
go ahead. Uh, let's go ahead and take a break here,

(01:10:33):
we'll get all the phones lined up. I want you
guys to make plays. My apologies to whoever the caller
was that Jason Martin screwed up there. I thought it
was on the callers. Regardless of the lesson remains the same.
Don't embarrass your family families, there are tons of people listening.
Eight seven seven six three six nine. I'm Clay Travis.
This is outkicked the coverage your calls next on Fox

(01:10:56):
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(01:11:17):
Give an example decision we have to make on this show.
Do you do the show for the average listener who's
gonna listen for eight minutes on his way or her
way to work in the morning, or do you do
the show for the person who wants to listen to
the entire show. We're getting millions of podcasts downloads. It's

(01:11:39):
a fascinating question in my industry, something that people talk about, like,
are you trying to get somebody to listen for ten minutes?
Are you trying to get somebody to listen for two hours?
Because the podcast listeners like a two hour listener. People
sit and they listen at their at their at their
work station, and you would program a two hour listener
different than you would program an eight minute listener. You're
trying to ideally pealed to both. But it's something that

(01:12:01):
you have to reconcile. In my business, Hopefully we entertain
you for ten minutes, but I care even more if
I entertain you for two hours, and that's something you
have to balance out over the course of a show.
Let's go to your calls, see if we make some
plays here Brandon in Atlanta? What's up? Clay? The only
time I've seen a coach have a fan base and

(01:12:23):
one of them believe than they were successful after leaving
it was Nick Saban and don't think that. But I
don't even think that Dolphin fans wanted Nick Saban to leave.
I think they were pretty upset that he left after
two years. If I remember now, it's it's difficult to
go back in time, and obviously social media wasn't as
active then, but I remember Nick Saban, like Dolphin fans,

(01:12:45):
being pretty upset that he decided to suddenly bail. It's
a good point, but I can't And by the way,
that doesn't fit the criteria because Alabama fans were ecstatic
to get Nick Saban back. When Nick Saban came back,
they were like, oh, this is the turn of the
conquering hero. Can I give you another one? When David Blatt,
when David Blatt left Cleveland and he ended up in Istanbul,

(01:13:10):
Turkey did not want him because he was a jew.
That's what I appreciate the call. That's an unbelievable pull.
When David Black got fired by the Calves, the team
that he went to an Istanbul was also not excited
to have him because he was Jewish. Evidently, that's I

(01:13:30):
don't even know if that's true. I have no did
did David Blatt really go from coaching the Calves to
Istanbul Is that correct? Do we have a confirmation on that.
That's an amazing story. If that's true, we're checking. That's
an amazing pull. Wow. Well maybe that's the example. Did
he have success in this stand Bull as the coach?
I don't know. Yeah, he's doing well, he's doing Is

(01:13:54):
he still there? Yes? He is? Istan Bulls and Turkey right, yes,
last night checked. I mean, I think there's a lot
of people out there listening that were like me. They're like,
I think that's as Stanbul's in Turkey, but I ain't
a percent sure. They're paying him five million dollars a
year in Turkey to coach basketball. That's what I saw. Yeah, Richard,
and that's pretty good, gig, I guess, except for the

(01:14:16):
fact that they have no rights of free speech and Turkey.
Richard and Jacksonville, what's up? What's upkay? My? My entry
is Tom Cofflan on that. Um, I'm a giant fan.
I was not, and I was living in Jacksonville, where
I still do, and I was not excited about this
Tom Coughlin higher and obviously that turned out pretty good,
so that would be I know, it's a little different.

(01:14:37):
But I wanted because he's he's in the head. He's
in the head. Obviously he's in the administrative capacity more
than he is a coach. But that's an interesting example. No, no, no,
when he went from the No, what I'm saying, when
he went from the Jaguars to the Giants, Oh, okay,
we're I don't even remember that situation where Jaguar fans
upset that he was leaving. No, they weren't. They were

(01:14:58):
they were final because Tom Saflin, it's not winning, there's
not much to them, and they weren't winning at the end.
So Jaguar fans are like, find whatever. Giant fans like,
why we wanted Jacksonville retread? And you know it did
work out pretty good. Well. I don't even remember the
answer to that. Was there years or any time in between?
Or was that him going straight from Jacksonville to the
There might have been a year. But on the group

(01:15:18):
think thing, Clay, I think your your premise is pretty fascinating.
It It is interesting, for sure, but I would say this, uh,
two things. Hey, what about something like group think? How
do you think that affected people at Penn State during
the Joe poss thing? I mean I don't think that
they're I don't think that their lack of contrition was
was a clear who was a clear eyed consensus on

(01:15:38):
the situation around them. You know what. That's interesting, But
that's an interesting question. Uh, And I appreciate the call
because that gets into how big is the group that
you could consider, because, for instance, a fan base has
a particular thought, but then the nation may have a
particular thought. I'll give you another one. Baltimore raven fans
before the video came out, gave Ray Rice a standing

(01:16:00):
ovation at the Baltimore raven training camp. People forget the
way this story went down. Remember he got suspended and
the Ravens didn't kick him to the curb yet and
they actually allowed him to show up for training camp.
And then what happened. Then the video came out and
the Ravens decided, you know what, we can't stand behind
Ray Rice anymore. Well, the nation as a whole was

(01:16:23):
crushing the Baltimore Ravens, but their individual fan base may
have had a different opinion of that. That's kind of
an intriguing question. Do you listen to the wisdom of
your fan base or do you listen to the wisdom
of the nation. That's that that that's a challenge because
you almost have two different crowds colliding there coming up
with different ideas. Let's go to clay in Texas. Clay

(01:16:47):
Man love the show, loved name, and I also love
the boots. Uh. I will say, I will say, so,
you're kind already touched on my coaching thing. I mean,
I think I think Lane Kiffin somewhat. I mean, I
don't think Alabama fans were crushed when he left. There's
kind of some weirdness between him and saving and obviously
he's done really well and if a you, um, but

(01:17:10):
but going to the crowd, the masses, um, I just
think it's funny. That's it's such us and I have
have to things. But I think it's really funny that
the media is just all over this like this is
some new revelation. I mean, in the last decade, I mean,
fans by and large have gotten coaches fired and or hired.

(01:17:30):
I'm not saying I I really truly agree with that.
I mean, I think you gotta be careful because it's
gotten some I think it's got some really good coaches.
Let go probably a little too soon. But but I
mean this is no new story, right, I mean, this
is this is pretty this is pretty normal stuff. And
then as far as Tennessee coaching goes play, there's there's
you already named wan Chad Morris, but there's another group

(01:17:53):
of five guys kind of under the radar, and he's
turned an abysmal program right around. And that's uh. And
really he could have easily been seven and four this
year's in almost every game he played. And that's Willie
for it's a two lane. That guy is going to
be a very successful coach in a Power five conference
at some point. Appreciate promise you that I appreciate the call.

(01:18:16):
I don't know him that well. I'll look him up. Uh,
Steve and Myrtle Beach. What's up Steve? Hey? Clay. Um,
I think you have a good point as far as
listening to your fan base, but I think, um, I
don't think you can listen to them completely. With sports,
fans just want to win. That's what they want you
to put a winning product on the field. So whenever

(01:18:37):
you compare it to like the Star Wars movies, yes,
Disney listens to their fans because they go out in
flocks to go see Star Wars and they're like, Okay,
we need to make a new movie, but they don't
ask the fans how they should make the movie. Yeah,
and that's what I said. I appreciate the call. I said,
you have to draw the line somewhere like you can
have the fans. I said, Look, I think the fans

(01:18:57):
should be involved in who a head coaching higher is.
I don't think they should be involved in what offensive
play call he's gonna make on third and three in
a game. And the same way that I think Disney
can make the decision we need a new Star Wars movie,
but we're not going to crowdsource what the plot should be.
You have, you know, in broad strokes. I think that's
how you consider what the fan base opinion is. And

(01:19:20):
right now in the coaching search, you're like people hear
people saying, oh, you can't listen to the fans. I
heard somebody even say, you know the best way to
if you listen to the fans, eventually you'll end up
sitting in the stands. And I'm like, really, because in
every other walk of life, if you listen to the
fans and you have enough fans, you end up filthy
rich living in a mansion. Right. If you make movies

(01:19:42):
that are popular enough, you live in a pretty good house.
If you make music that's popular enough, you live in
a pretty good house too. You sell enough of anything
as a retailer, you end up a billionaire. Amazon listens
to wisdom of the crowds more than anybody. Google. The
entire company is founded on the wisdom of crowds. Think
about it. Why do we not do it? In sports?

(01:20:02):
I'm Clay Travis As'll kick the coverage. Welcome in Final Hour.
Hope you're having a fantastic morning wherever you are across
the country. Final Hour about kick the coverage on Thursday.
I believe right. We're coming to Alive from the guy
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(01:20:23):
Geico dot com for a free rate quote as well.
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Get in the zone, Auto Zone. This show, of course,
is in the zone. Uh. We've been talking about a
lot of different issues. I'll get to them momentarily, but

(01:20:44):
first when a reset a little bit, the big stories
of the day. The Dallas Cowboys will be handling, hopefully
at indecent game the Washington Redskins to five and six
teams on Thursday night in the NFL kicking off Week
twelve action. Both of these teams basically need to go
undefeated from here on out to make the playoffs, So
whoever loses this game is officially eliminated from playoff contention.

(01:21:07):
But I don't believe there's a single person out there
who is a Washington Redskin or Dallas Cowboy fan that
believes that either of these teams is capable of winning
the five final five games of the regular season. So
I think most of you have resigned your yourselves to
the fact that this team, these teams are not going
to be in the playoffs this year and already are
starting to think ahead for what the future might look

(01:21:29):
like in both Dallas and in Washington on the larger
universe out there, the college football playoff inches closer and closer,
with the conference title games now just two days away.
There is a lot of uncertainty about exactly how that
will shake out. We will spend a lot of Friday
discussing it, and I'll also discuss it with our next guest,
Todd Ferman, who is waking up early with us out

(01:21:52):
in the Las Vegas Desert, to break down those games
as well as Week twelve action in the NFL, and
maybe also to talk about the college coaching carousel, which
is fully underway. I said this earlier, I continue to
believe it. I have said it for over two weeks now.
Jimbo Fisher is going to go to Texas A and M,
and that will open up the Florida State job. Florida

(01:22:12):
State appears maybe to have targeted as its primary UH
primary coaching candidate Willie Taggart at the University of Oregon,
who has only been there a year. Will he leave
or will he accept this new extension and decide to
commit longer term in Oregon. We will have to find
out exactly what is going to be the situation there.

(01:22:33):
The spitting wheels of the Tennessee coaching search continue to
to spend. Tennessee's coaching search I described it earlier as
being the equivalent of a dumpster fire inside of a
caboose on the side of a train sliding down the
side of a mountain with no ability to stop itself
at all, and that sliding train has found its way
to NC State, where they have now evidently, according to reports,

(01:22:56):
offered their head coaching job to Dave Dorn, an NC
State coach that NC State fans hope will leave, and
the Tennessee fans hope will say no to their offer.
That is where we are. There are a lot of
good available coaching candidates still out there on the sideline,
be at Lane Kivin, Bobby Petrino, Mike Norvell, h Kevin Sumlin.
There are just so many guys out there right now

(01:23:19):
that would take the Tennessee job happily and be successful
with it um and yet Tennessee's administration seems to be incompetent,
which has led me into an interesting riff because a
lot of national media out there have been saying you
can't listen to your fan base during a coaching higher
season because if you do, You're going to fail. And
I'm asking an interesting question, why is this the only

(01:23:41):
industry I can think of where we say this, especially
in this modern era, when we have the ability to
pull fan bases and get the wisdom of crowds better
than almost ever before. And as we went to break,
I was saying, think about it. The companies that are
the most successful right now are all predicated on get
as much data from as many people as they possibly

(01:24:02):
can to allow them to make business decisions. Let me
explain Google literally. Google's entire business is predicated on the
fact that the more people who search for things on Google,
the more useful the Google search engine becomes, and it
is insanely successful as a business because of the wisdom

(01:24:22):
of crowds. Amazon Amazon's entire business model is to as
efficiently as possible serve as many people as possible for
the lowest possible cost. How many of you will go
on to Amazon dot com this week and buy things
for Christmas? A ton of you. I can't tell you
the number of packages we have arriving at our house

(01:24:45):
on a weekly basis from Amazon now, variety of different
subjects and objects of all sorts. Think about Apple. Why
is Apple so useful? Because the more people who have
an iPhone, the more use full an iPhone is. I
judge people when I text them and they're they're not

(01:25:05):
a blue box? Am I the only person who does this?
Like if I am on a plane and I've got
WiFi and I try to go text somebody and they
come up as a green box and I can't text
from the plane, I'm like, what kind of loser are you?
Why don't you have an iPhone? Does anybody else do this?
You guys all have iPhones? Yes? Do you judge people
if they are in a blue box when you text them? Yes?

(01:25:29):
Everybody does this, I think if you have an iPhone.
Like if I if somebody gives me their number and
I pull out my phone and I text them and
it shows up as a green box, I'm like, what,
I don't trust this person? What kind of decisions are
they making in their life? Why don't they have an iPhone? Uh?
The reason why the iPhone works is because the more
people who at first it's a good product, but the
more people who have it, the more efficient it is.
Look at Netflix. Netflix rigorously analyzes its data to determine

(01:25:55):
what kind of shows it should green light. It's not
just one executive sitting back thinking. They look at how
many people watch Stranger Things, they look at how many
people watch House of Cards. They decide whether to extend
series based on all of the internal data they have.
The most successful businesses in America right now are all

(01:26:15):
using the wisdom of crowds to make themselves more successful.
So why are that all these college football media out
there like, you can't listen to these fuddy duddies out
that you can't listen to these stupid uh fans. Now,
you know, if you listen to the fans about who
to hire, then you're guaranteeing yourself you're gonna fail. Well, Google, Apple, Amazon,

(01:26:36):
and Netflix would all say, you know what, you guys
are idiots. And in the world of sports, this is
intriguing too, right because I think about the data analytics
that we've seen takeover baseball and the NBA. People are like, oh,
those guys are nerds, And then guess what happened the
data one The data, when accurately applied, made Major League

(01:26:57):
Baseball and NBA teams better number crunching works instead of
just relying purely on intuition. You allowed the data sets
to work and provide you as much information as possible.
So my argument here is why would you can't Why
would you If you have the ability to access the

(01:27:17):
wisdom of crowds through social media in a way that
you've never had before, why wouldn't you listen to your customers.
Walmart is a great example. You know why Walmart was
so successful. There's a lot of interesting studies and reasons
about Walmart's business succeeding, and there are a lot of
different angles that mattered, but one of them was before
everybody else was aware of, like the SKEW system, you

(01:27:39):
know how like every product that you buy in a
store has a bar code on it. Before anybody else
was aware of how useful all that data could be.
Walmart had the best analysis of all the products in
its store. They had the best computer system in the world,
and they could tell you exactly when they were about
to run out of stuff, so you would never go

(01:28:01):
to Walmart and need diapers and the diapers suddenly aren't there.
And as we've gotten better and better technologically, their ability
to break down everything in their stores has gotten better.
Now they're competing with Amazon right and that's its own
kind of fascinating competition. But Walmart technologically was ahead of
everybody else. They were listening to the wisdom of the

(01:28:22):
crowd to know what products were selling in their stores
better than anybody else did. All of those are perfect
examples of businesses that use the wisdom of crowds to dominate.
And yet people out there are saying, why would you
listen to the masses in a coaching search. My argument
is you should be listening to the wisdom of collective fans. Now,

(01:28:46):
some of you out there are gonna miss apply this
and you're gonna be thinking, well, you should listen to
the wisdom of an individual person. No, I'm not talking
about one person telling you what you should do. I'm
talking about the collective wisdom of a hundred thousand people
being better than the collective wisdom of three people conducting
a search. Maybe you're gonna get Steve Jobs and he's

(01:29:09):
gonna be a genius and he's gonna do an incredible
job heading up a search. More likely you're gonna get
people who aren't as good as the hundred thousand. Would
be great example of this in my industry Bleacher Report,
Bleacher Reports entire basis as a company was predicated on
the fact that sports media did such an awful job

(01:29:29):
delivering what fans actually wanted. Because back in the day,
nobody knew what was actually being read in the newspaper.
So you'd have all these editors sitting around saying, you
know what, I think we should do a story about X,
and then the editor would give that assignment out and
people would go write it up, and then it would
be in the newspaper and he would read it and

(01:29:49):
he'd be like, damn, this is a good story. But
you didn't know how many people were actually reading that story,
or more importantly, how many people would actually be willing
to buy a newspaper based on that story. Well, then
the Internet comes along and it gives you the data
to be able to see exactly how many people click
on a story. You go talk to Dave Finocchio and
a lot of those other guys who were involved in
founding Bleacher Report, and they said, we were astounded because

(01:30:14):
we had the data of what people actually read, and
we found out that what was actually being written people
had no interest in it. So they started actually serving
their website towards the vast market, and they turned it
into a couple of hundred million dollar business sold its
a turn. Now they do a great job using social

(01:30:35):
media to make people entertained, and it's because they basically
peeled what I always say, like, they peeled back the
brain of the Internet and looked inside to see what
people actually wanted to read. And prior to that, you
just had a bunch of old guys sitting around saying, Hey,
why don't we write this feature on X, or why
don't we do this story on why? And they had

(01:30:55):
no idea whether people actually liked it. And then the
Internet comes around and the work media gets all a
gas because they're like, oh, you know, people don't like
the stuff that we've been writing. Well, is that their fault?
To your fault? You've been getting paid for stuff that
people didn't like. Change the way you do business. Serve
a community that actually cares about your articles. It's fascinating. Uh,

(01:31:16):
get a couple of calls here, then we're gonna go
Todd Ferman, who should I go to? Jason Martin Ron
and Jacksonville Ron and Jacksonville? What's up? Hey? What's up?
Clay Um? All right? And I am talking on an
iPhone by the way. Yeah, of course, good. I don't
judge you then, all right, thank you very much. Uh so,

(01:31:37):
two points. I disagree with your collective wisdom of the crowd, Moniker.
I would call it, more so the follies of the mob,
and uh you being a legal scholar, and myself being
a legal scholar, I'm sure you're familiar with. I think
it's Federalist number fifty one by James Madison. He spoke
about the problems of following what you call the collective
wisdom of the mob. That's why our government's organized in

(01:31:59):
the way it is. Um. I think a good example
of the follies of the mob is Brexit. The most
googled inquiry after Brexit passed was what the heck is Brexit?
So you always know what they're talking about. There's no data,
there's no Your fear, though, is that you basically don't
believe in democracy. That no, that's not necessarily what I'm saying.

(01:32:23):
Do you trust people to make the right decision when
it comes to electing a president? Uh well, all right, thanks,
all right, I gotta I gotta thanks for the like.
I believe in large markets, okay, I believe in the
wisdom of crowds by and large, Sometimes crowds make the
wrong decisions. Sometimes our processes do not allow us to

(01:32:45):
see what the crowd actually decided. I e. The Bush
Vigore election in two thousands, when the flaws in our
actual electoral system, we couldn't tell who actually won the
election because the election was so close, it was within
the margin of air. Yeah, And if you want to
get into a larger debate about the structure of government,
the way that the structure of government was created was

(01:33:06):
so that we had separation of powers, so that we
had a balancing of all the powers and government to
ensure that no one group ended up more powerful than
any other group. Right, So the structure is you've got
the legislature, you've got the executive branch, and you've got
the judiciary, and they're all supposed to serve as a
check and a balance. Going back to like you know,
ninth grade, uh, social studies, They're all supposed to serve

(01:33:28):
on a as a as a check of powers on
each other so that no one group ends up all powerful.
That makes sense because we were afraid of dictatorships when
we created our democracy. We're afraid of one powerful person
taking over the entire country and running rough shot over
the will of the democracy. Now, there are flaws and democracy.
As my old constitutional law professor used to say, democracy

(01:33:51):
is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Yeah,
the sheep's gonna get out voted to to one. Right,
So there are flaws in democracy, see, of course. But
I'm just talking about using the wisdom of the crowds
in a concept in a business context, just like Netflix does,
just like Amazon does, just like Facebook does, just like
every all of the most successful businesses in America today

(01:34:14):
are using all of the data they gather from all
of these hundreds of millions of people who use their
products every day to make their products better. And so
why wouldn't the same thing happen in college football? Why
wouldn't you listen to the wisdom of your audience to
help you make better decisions. Let's go to Kyle and Vermont. Kyle,
what's up? Hey, how's it going? Clay? Thanks for taking

(01:34:35):
my call? Uh? First of all, I just think you're
a hilarious and obviously a really smart guy. Um. I
tell all my friends and family about the show, and
I used to listen on satellite but now I switched
podcasts just because a little bit more condensed. But with
your point about, you know, all of the things about
the criticism of you know, that you've been taken or whatever.

(01:34:56):
People don't want to hear about how you know, they
have a hit an agenda, but they're not honest enough
to tell you what the agenda is. At least when
we listen to you, you know, we know you know
that you're a homer, that you're you know, you're gonna
think that Tennessee Titans are gonna be awesome. You know,
you want here to be you know, really good, you know,
and so it's really refreshing to hear the honest take

(01:35:19):
and honestly, as far as a consumer of you know, entertainment,
which is what I feel this is the show is
it's very entertaining to see you go after Tennessee and
try and get the guy that you think is the best,
because you know, the vast majority of the country is
looking at Tennessee like, oh, I know, you guys think
you're all the you know, great and everything like that,
but um, you know, it's just it's it's really entertaining

(01:35:40):
to see your bias and then you recognize this and
then still pursue it regardless of what everybody else thinks.
And so that's what you know, listening to your audience
or whatever, is that you know, you're just giving us
what we want, which is honestly, you know, which is
I appreciate you saying that, Kyle, and thanks for listening
up in Vermont. Here's the deal. I be leave that
I am the most honest person in sports media. I don't.

(01:36:04):
I'm not even sure that there's a close second. And
I have gotten in trouble with this over my career.
The reason I don't have a television show right now
is because they offered me a television show and they said,
what do you want to do on that television show?
And I said, I want to be a hundred percent
honest with every opinion that I have every day, and
they said, you can't do that. I said, well, then
I don't want to do it because I'm a hundred

(01:36:25):
percent honest every single day on the radio show. I'm
a hundred percent honest every single day on my Periscope
and Facebook shows that I do in the afternoon. I'm
a hundred percent honest with every article that I write,
and so if you're telling me that I have to
talk to my audience and be anything less than a
hundred percent authentic, I don't want to talk to that audience.

(01:36:47):
And it's funny. Um, when I got offered that television
show by FS one, the I said, well, basically, what
you're asking me to do is sell out, and he
said yeah. And I said, well, what would you have
me tell my audience out there when I agreed to
stop talking to them the same way that I talked
to them now and changed everything about my delivery just

(01:37:09):
so I could have a television show. And the executive
was straightforward. He said, I would tell them thanks for
getting me here, but I don't need you anymore now.
That's blatant and honest and straightforward. But I'm not gonna
be a sellout. Like people all the time criticize me.
I think I criticized me for a lot of things.
I have never sold out. Never. I come on every

(01:37:33):
day and say exactly what I think. And I could
have sold out for a lot of money several different
times down the road. But to me, the value of
what I do is being honest in a fundamentally dishonest world.
And so when you hear me say something, you can
bet that I believe it, and I am coming to
this show every day. From the perspective of what I

(01:37:55):
think is a reasonably intelligent fan, I'm a fan. I'm
not pretending to be a hardcore, super serious journalist. Frankly,
I think if you consider yourself to be a hardcore,
super serious journalist, you should not be covering sports. You
should be covering things that actually matter. Sports is the
toy chest of life. This is dessert, This is entertainment.

(01:38:18):
I don't consider what we do on a daily basis
to be incredibly important in the larger universe. We are
where people come to escape typically serious things in life. Now.
Doesn't mean we can't talk about serious topics, doesn't mean
that we can't address issues that matter, But by and large,
that's not gonna be what we do on a day

(01:38:38):
to day basis. Josh and Napa, what's up? Josh? How's Nappa? Hey? Glen,
So you said a couple of times before, and I
totally agree with it. Uh, if you like me to
tell your friends and family, if you hate me, tell
everybody reflect listeners and fans. How to think? Two questions? One,

(01:39:00):
how how would you juggle or address who's spans and
who's listeners in your ratings, who's listening for convenience or
just to hear something that they don't agree with. Also,
Jason Martin, Justin Cooper, and Play Travis, Why aren't you
guys an amateur pictures? It's a really good question, and
and it's something like I never really have concerned myself

(01:39:22):
with our people listening because they love me, or people
listening because they hate me because they've done a fascinating
study and they found out, you know, the phrase hater
is gonna hate is actually true. There is a certain
segment of the population out there that gets their jollies
off off of hating things. Like I'm not one of
those people. I got not enough time to see the
things that I want to actually see on television. I

(01:39:44):
don't get to go to the movies anymore because I
got three kids. And if I do go to the movies,
it's to see Freaking Cars three and the Emoticon movie.
It's not to actually end up in a situation where
I get to sit down very often and watch a
movie that I want to watch myself. So I'm not
the guy who's gonna them on and tell you, hey,
don't go watch this, it sucks. Like like whatever you like,

(01:40:06):
watch whatever you watch, like you know, listen to whatever
you want. But there is a huge segment out there
that's listening right now that hates me, and they're making
me filthy rich. So I thank them for their hate,
because hate pays just as well as love does. Haters
gonna hate. Indeed, it's like that study back in the
day when Howard Stern was starting to dominate. Um, if
you want to go watch the movie Private Parts, they

(01:40:27):
found out that the people who liked Howard Stern listened
to him for like twelve minutes a day, the people
who hated him listen to him for like two hours
and twenty minutes a day. And so literally they are
so dumb that they are making him gobs of money. Now.
I also think there's something kind of sado massochistic about that.
I think the people who claim that they hate me
actually deep down love me. That's my theory that because

(01:40:50):
they are so obsessed with me that I don't believe
you could be obsessed with something like that and hate
it truly like they say anyway, That's my theory. Uh.
Todd Ferman gonna be up next on the flip side.
We'll talk to him about all the games going on,
conference title games as well as the NFL games. Hopefully
make you a little bit of money as we break
down the upcoming weekend of action in the NFL as

(01:41:11):
well as the Cowboys and the Redskins. But right before
we go to break, Jason Martin, you think that Willie
Taggert will take the F s U job if he
gets offered it to him? Absolutely, That dude absolutely adores
the state of Florida. He can recruit that state like
nobody's business. He met his wife there, That's where he
that's where he really believes his home, that's where his
heart is. So even though the Oregon job is a

(01:41:32):
really good job, I just was seeing him on the
West coast up there in the Pacific Northwest. Has never
made sense to me. If something opens up in the
state of Florida and imagining it being F s U,
that dude is gone. I don't care how much money
they offer him. He's going back to Florida, and then
that might be the job he actually sticks with. Considering
he's moved three times in the last like six or
seven years. All right, we're headed out to the desert

(01:41:53):
next in Las Vegas. Gonna make you rich with getting
ready for the NFL and college football. This is OutKick
the coverage. Great news. Wait, you could save money switched
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(01:42:14):
new or use car, Visit True Car to enjoy a
more confident car buying experience. Gonna join Todd Ferman out
in the desert in Las Vegas to talk college football
and NFL. But first, let's find out what's shaking the
world of sports. Ddy Garcia Well Clay in college football
pretty way. Coach Jeff Bram's reportedly withdrawn his name consideration
for the Tennessee and coaching John Tennessee now reportedly targeting

(01:42:35):
NC States Dave dorn for that coaching vacancy. Arizona State
reportedly is finalizing the old to make former NFL had
coach Herm Edwards their next head coach, penning approval from
the university president, Oregon State is named Jonathan Smith. Their
new head football coach is a former quarterback for the Beavers,
most recently was the offensive coordinator in Washington. And NFL
quarterback news. The Dolphins are gonna start Jake Cutler quarterback

(01:42:55):
against Denver this weekend. The Buccaneers will start quarterback Jameis
Winston like it's the Packers and Clay. A couple of
quick basketball notes in the NBA Warriors beat the Lakers
twenty three and overtime. Kevin Durant Steph Curry back from injury.
Duran at twenty nine points cur twenty eight points to win.
College troops number one dude beat Indiana on the road
eighty one Blue Devils or nine and oh this season?

(01:43:16):
Good deal. We're coming to Alive Geico out Kick Studios,
where it's easy to say more on car insurance with Geico,
go to Geico dot com or call eight seven Auto.
The only hard part figuring out which way is easier.
Let's go out to the desert. Todd Furman at Todd
Ferman on Twitter. What's up my man house shaking boxes?
What happened there? You know, you're taking those passive aggressive

(01:43:36):
jabs of green text boxes and those folks to use
any cellular phones not named iPhones. I took that as
a affront to my usage of BlackBerry in the past.
This is you were the last BlackBerry user I knew. Um,
and uh it was really funny. Like I remember being
with you and like I'm like, let's get an uber
and my phone was dying or something. I was like, hey,
can you use your phone? And you're like, well, BlackBerry

(01:43:58):
doesn't have apps and and so, but you have given up.
You're you're an iPhone guy now too, right, I am
an iPhone guy, and I get angry at my phone
just like every other iPhone user when your battery dies
after about two hours. Yeah. So here's the question, uh,
the poll question of the day right now? Do you
judge people if you text them from your iPhone and
the text is is a green box instead of a
blue box? You say yes? And probably the forty percent

(01:44:22):
of the people who don't have iPhones. All right, speaking
of judging people, we have got a lot of judgment
going on in the world of college football, and there
are a lot of conference title games going on this weekend.
Which ones. I'm gonna start with the four that seem
like they're going to directly impact the college football playoff
and I want you to break them down for me.
Let's start with the Big ten Ohio State versus Wisconsin.

(01:44:44):
What are we seeing here? Where's the money coming in?
Right now? The latest I've seen? What is uhhi? Ohio
State about a six and a half point favorite? Indeed,
and a lot of folks look at this number and
they go, how are the Buckeyes this heavy a favorite
against an undefeated Wisconsin team? And I'll be say, you
start to unpack the Badger's resume over the course of
the season. They have yet to beat a football team

(01:45:06):
throughout the course of the regular season that was better
than the top thirty and offensive efficiency. Florida Atlanta gets
that distinction, and Florida Atlanta didn't figure out its identity
until it got into the heart of conference play. So
if you look at the big tent schedule, they haven't
beaten a team from with an offensive pulse. In my opinion,
Perdue would probably be that best team. When we look
at this particular number, it's actually a little bit lite.

(01:45:26):
Ohio State projects out about an eight and a half
nine point favorite, But when you see overwhelming public sentiment
both on the money line and backing the Badgers with points,
you can't really argue given the erratic play that we've
seen from JT. Barrett. But if we get Ohio State
at its best like we saw in the fourth quarter
against Penn State, like we saw for four quarters against
Michigan State, I don't think this game obviously gets his
lopst is the fifty nine nothing drubbing they hung on

(01:45:48):
the Badgers a few years ago in the conference title,
But don't be surprised of Ohio State wins this game
comfortably by double digits. Okay, what about the SEC title game?
And obviously the health of carry On Johnson of fact
ye's in here a little bit. Auburn around a two
point favorite over Georgia. It definitely plays a role because
if carry On starts the game, you're gonna see reflecting
the number I think this price can take up from

(01:46:10):
two and a half to three when he officially gets upgraded.
But at the same time, if he's not effective, if
he dings that shoulder pretty early on in the contest,
where does Auburn go to force Georgia too, at least
respect the ground game in some selance opening things up
in the passing attack. We know Georgia isn't going to
get tremendously better on the offensive line over three weeks
since it's been after they took headed down to Jordan

(01:46:32):
Hairs three point favorites and we're pretty much thumped from
start to finish. However, you look at this number, Clay,
and the market is overreacted in the other direction. Amid
Auburn's resurgence. You've seen a game that I think Georgia
should be a one one and a half point favorite
on the de facto neutral field at mystre has Been Stadium.
That's without even compensating a little bit for what could
be a slight home field advantage with that game being

(01:46:53):
played in Atlanta. For me, I think Georgia uses that
emotion of what went wrong the first time around. We
see a very different Auburn team and asking them to
repeat that high level of play we saw last weekend
in the iron Ball I just don't think is achievable.
I like Georgia to win this game and get to
the college football players intriguing. What about TCU Oklahoma in
the Big Twelve title game. TCUs defense has to be

(01:47:13):
better the second time around. They were gashed throughout the
course of the first half by Oklahoma. You look at
what Rodney Anderson was able to do two nine yards
from scrimmage in that game and four touchdowns, all of
course coming in the first thirty minutes. Life without Darius
Anderson for TCU has been a little bit troubling as
far as their ability to run the ball and keep
opposing defenses off balance. Kyle Hicks gets to the edge

(01:47:35):
but can't run the ball between the tackles. Again, it's
Kenny Hill against Baker Mayfield. And I know it's an
oversimplified approach. There's no doubt that there's value in TCU
because this number should be closer to four, and you
will see the professionals back in the horn Frogs and
Gary Patterson. I'm just not sure I'd get in that bandwagon.
I was burned once with TCU in the first meeting.
I'm not sure I want to go down that path
a second time. We're talking to Todd Ferman. He is

(01:47:57):
gonna be writing his Vegas top ten. It will be
up here. Wentarily on OutKick as soon as the show ends,
you can go check out his work at OutKick dot com.
Uh Todd, what about the a c C title game?
Miami nearing double digit underdog against Clemson. You figure that
Clemson is basically gonna have a home field advantage in Charlotte,
But what do you see in this one? Any chance
the Hurricanes can pull off the upset? You know, wanted

(01:48:19):
to make a case for Miami, thought they were gonna
have a puncher's chance because we talked about all the
time Clay buying stock at the bottom of the market,
and there was no better scenario given the lethargic effort
we saw for Miami and Pittsburgh last weekend. Clemson looks
like world beaters against the rivals. But this number open
at five and it's trended closer to double digits. As
you mentioned, I think it's gonna be very difficult for
books to see money from professional betters on Miami to

(01:48:42):
kind of soften up their balance sheet for this game.
You look at the Hurricanes and there was gonna be
a struggle for them to move the football. It doesn't
get any better when you lose your second leading receiver
and tight end, Chris Herndon than yesterday, a man Richards
has lost for the season, so it really becomes Barrios
as he won deep threat and by all the people
that I've spoken to, Miami was talked about playing a
little bit more up tempo, trying to take Clemson, uh,

(01:49:03):
catch Clemson off bounce. I'm not sure that's going to
be the case in this particular spot. Now, Miami may
need to lean on their defense. It's got the makings
of a twenty seven thirteen type football game. I like
the under more sols than I like Clemson. Um, but
I'm not going to make a case for Miami being
able to pull off the alright, upset, Okay, you're forecasting
what I think is turning into the big debate. Then
for the college football playoff, which is one spot opens

(01:49:25):
up with Wisconsin loses Ohio State, which I think you
expect to happen. How do the odds markets assess whether
Alabama or Ohio State is more likely to get in
according to the committee, Well, you've seen numbers that were
available at some of the off shore books. It was Alabama. Yes,
no properment opened right around pick them to get into
the college football playoffs. That number has trended as far

(01:49:45):
as minus a dollar sixty, meaning betters who think that
Alabama will be one of the four teams have to
put up one dollar and sixty cents to make a dollar.
I've even some seen some books go as far as
making Alabama the odds on favorite now to win the
National Championship, albeit it's a are cry from roughly the
plus one twenty they were going into the iron Ball
at around three and a half to one, but still

(01:50:06):
thinking a team that doesn't theoretically control its own destiny
is a favorite, speaks volumes about how they think the
committees getta hand on that decision, and if we go
one step further, trying to look at the blind resume,
which I think is a little bit of a leap
of faith. So more so the point spread of Alabama
or to play Ohio State. My true Power numbers make
Alabama right around a two and a half point favorite,
but I don't think books would be able to open

(01:50:28):
up a number that short. You'd be looking at Alabama
against Ohio State in a playoff type setting, more so
in that five five and a half range, so pretty
substantial difference they are according to the Vegas oddsmakers. Okay,
NFL Tonight, Cowboys against the Redskins. What do you expect?
I mean, this Cowboys team has been an absolute dumpster fire.
They've been done nothing offensively since losing Zekie Elliott. Opposing

(01:50:50):
defenses haven't been forced to respect that ground game in
the least yet to get out of the single digits
and losses against Atlanta, Philadelphia and of course that blot
against the Chargers on Thanksgiving. I think it's on Jason
Garrett to find ways to get that comfortable in the pocket,
being able to spread the ball around the passing game,
because Alfred Morris doesn't do it for you're running the football.
We know that Dallas is a little bit deficient defensively,

(01:51:11):
but as this number trends, Clay from one and a
half or Dallas open is a favorite closer to three,
you will see some resistance and buy back. I, however,
need to see something more from the Cowboys before I'm
going to go down that path. What about what other
games in the NFL jump out at you in terms
of providing value or telling interesting storylines. Two games I
think are worth keeping tabs on. One that has some
playoff implications. Both in the a f C and NFC,

(01:51:34):
with Baltimore a two and a half point home favorite
against the Lions. I know a lot of people skeptical
to back the Ravens given how lethargic they looked on
Monday Night football gutting out that against the Texans, But
I think Detroit being so one dimensional with the nick
Matthew Stafford, puts them behind the eight ball against a
very talented Ravens defense. There's also a myriad of other
injuries that the Lions will we face with anything under

(01:51:55):
a field goal. I think Baltimore one of the better
bets you can make this weekend. And as you head
out to the Desert, Arizona a seven point home underdog
against the Rams. The Rams schedule about to get very
grueling with games against the Eagles at home and road
date with the Seahawks coming up. They beat the Cardinals
thirty three nothing across the pond in London, and I
think the absence of Robert Woods will really be felt
here on the road. And you're laying this kind of number,

(01:52:16):
I think Arizona has a chance to pull off outright
upsets back to back weeks. Uh this week against the
Rams last week. They did so at the bell against
the Jacksonville Jaguars. Two best games Eagles Seahawks, at least
according to me, like kind of looking over this to
me and Vikings Falcons, what do you see in either
of these? I can tell you one thing. If you've
done one thing in the NFL, and it's betting the
Vikings blindly, you would have profited handsomely thirty one in

(01:52:40):
thirteen the last forty four games the Vikings have playing overall,
when they play in a dome fifteen and four against
the number and on turf twenty two and six, So
you see a little bit of money tick in on
the Vikings. I would not be surprised in the least
that this number came off of a field goal and
trended towards two and a half. In my opinion, I
think it's a bigger game though for Atlanta, knowing how
congested that NFC South Division is, with the Saints and

(01:53:02):
Panthers having a showed on a chance to make up
ground on one of the second place teams. The Vikings
have said Xavier Roads will be locked down to Julio
Jones and since the last time the Vikings have taken
on Atlanta. They played thirty three opponents play only two
that twice have they allowed receivers to go over a
hundred yards. It'll be interesting to see where Matt Ryan goes.
And when you look at the Sunday night game between
Philadelphia and Seattle, this number open Eagles minus three. It

(01:53:24):
has been a steady flow of Eagles cash coming into
the market, and who can really argue since Philadelphia has
covered eight straight and done so in dominating fashion, you
will see some professional money as this number trends towards
six and a half, maybe even a seven on Sunday night.
I'm just not sure how Seattle's offensive line slows down
the strength of this Eagles team, which has been their
defensive line, but cycles and fresh bodies from start to finish.

(01:53:47):
Outstanding is always go read Todd's work at out Kick,
where we'll have the Vegas top ten as well as
his breakdown of SEC versus Big ten top to bottom
up in about twenty minutes. Good stuff. Todd Ferman always
a pleasure collection o the games. This weekend we will
final set m up next. I've had a little animal
Thunderdome on OutKick. The coverage great news. There's a quick
way you could save money. Switch to Geico. Go to

(01:54:07):
Geico dot com and in fifteen minutes you could say
fift or more on car insurance as well. Love has
an army and you can join the fight. Help the
Salvation Army fight for those in need all over our
community this Christmas by going to Fox Sports Radio dot
com and clicking the red kettle icon to donate or
call one eight three three sal Join. Now, there may

(01:54:30):
be some controversy out here. It could be that in
our war with animals, there's no dangerous stories out there.
Jason Martin, do you have anything? Uh, there's a shark
story in Florida. All right, there you go. Let's play
the music, boys, ladies, and gentlemen. I'm just glad. I

(01:54:52):
was scared boys, and I thought he thought I was
like this genormous piece of chicken dime times. Yeah, I
had to my this is animal Thunderdog. Before you get
to Jason, how many people do you think are gonna
be late to work because they were driving and then

(01:55:13):
they heard Animal Thunderdome final segment of the show. I'm
not getting out of my car until I hear what
happened I guarantee you there are thousands of people right
now across the nation. They're gonna get into work a
little bit late today because of this segment, So better
be good. Jason Martin. Yep. Now that's a lot of pressure.
But a video drone yesterday flying over a Florida beach
captured footage of a tiger shark. Now that would not

(01:55:34):
be a great story, but the tiger shark was passing
within just mere feet of many oblivious swimmers. Kenny Melendez
was taking scenic video Friday at South Beach in Miami
when he spotted this gigantic tiger shark just weaving through
groups of swimmers. Almost none of the swimmers even noticed.
The shark just continued to go about their business as

(01:55:57):
it passed within feet of all them. It did not
attack any of them. But can you even imagine the
idea that that was swimming through in this drone is
sitting there watching it, and there's no way to really
tell these swimmers at that point, But there's literally a
tiger shark like feet away from them swimming around and
they're just out in the ocean doing their thing, have
no idea what's going on. This is amazing. This is

(01:56:19):
like my tiger shark story. Do you guys remember my
tiger sharks story? How could we forget people who haven't
heard my tiger shark story. When I was twelve, I'm
on the beach, Panama City Beach, Florida, Redneck Rivieria, and
I am on a jet ski jet ski. Uh. The
jet ski breaks down, all right, So the jet ski
breaks down, uh, and we fall off and we're trying

(01:56:41):
to get back on. And nowadays jet skis are actually
really easy to get on. Like it used to be
like if you were on a jet ski like fIF
twenty years ago, and you fell off and the waves
were a little bit rough or whatever, like, it was
hard to climb back up, especially if you had two
people on a jet ski and you had to balance
it out. So we were having ably getting back up.
Jet ski gets fixed. But this guy comes, this lifeguard

(01:57:04):
comes screeching up and he says, we've seen two tiger
sharks in the area. You need to get into the
beach right now. Get back to the beach. So I
am holding on. We can't both get back up on
the jet ski because we keep tipping over. It's a
rough day out on the water. So I am holding
on to the back and if you like, there used
to be like the running board back there where you

(01:57:25):
can like pull yourself up, So there's a couple of
like armholds. So I'm holding on there and the guy
takes off. It's like, you know, I was on a
church mission trip, right, And the guy takes off and
he's probably like he seems like an old guy. Then
I'm probably twelve. He was probably like twenty. But when
you're twelve and somebody else's twenty, it's like there are
different species than you, right, So he's he's piloting it.

(01:57:46):
He'd start takes off. I'm dragging terrified that at any
moment a shark is just gonna bite me. Like I'm
literally baked, just being dragged along the top of the
water on the jet ski, thinking at any moment, oh
my god, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna be eating by
a tiger shark. My pants start to come off because
the exhaust my swimsuit, the exhaust is pushing back right

(01:58:08):
down right like back onto me. The bubbles coming from
the jet ski, the wake of the jet ski, and
my pants slowly start to work themselves down my body.
Before long, my pants are completely off, and we're going
so fast that we are hitting the waves, and I
am mooning. I'm twelve years old, now seventh grade. I
am mooning the entire beach as we're going, and I'm

(01:58:31):
thinking to myself, Oh my god, I'm gonna lose my
pants and I'm gonna be naked in the water, which
if you're a twelve year old boy, is literally pretty
much the worst thing that could happen to you. So
I managed to hook my shorts my swimsuit just barely
on my ankle, and then we continue on in I'm
thinking I'm gonna get eaten by a shark, but I'm

(01:58:51):
also thinking maybe it would be better to be eaten
by a shark than have to get out of the
water naked as a twelve year old boy on the
beach in front of all the girl roles at my church.
Everyone on the beach, I start to recognize is standing
and looking at me. As I'm now mooning the entire beach.
Everyone is paying attention to me. They're sharks in the water.
I'm getting dragged along the water, and then finally I

(01:59:14):
get dropped off in the shallows uh, and I'm standing
there naked but not deep enough where I could be
fully naked. I get my swimsuit on and I try
to play it off like nothing happened at all, and
it didn't go well. So that's my story about tiger sharks.
I'm lucky to be alive. Think about how much different
the sports media universe would be if I had gotten
eaten by a tiger shark right then and there. You

(01:59:35):
wouldn't be listening to this, You wouldn't have just missed work.
Everything in your life would be different. This is Outkicked
the coverage. Thanks for spending your Thursday with us. Go
download the podcast search out out Kick. Biggest week we've
ever had in the history of the show. That's thanks
to you, guys. I'm Clay Travis. Hopefully you'll make some
money tonight on Redskins against Cowboys. We will be back
same bat time, same bat channel tomorrow, six and nine

(01:59:55):
am Eastern on Fox Sports Radio.

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