Wins & Losses - Clay talks with Tomi Lahren

Subscribe to the Wins & Losses podcast right here: Subscribe. This week on Wins & Losses, Clay Travis is joined by political commentator Tomi Lahren. Clay and Tomi talk about her upbringing in South Dakota, and her early interest in the world of politics. The two talk about her decision to go from growing up in South Dakota, to going to college in Las Vegas. Tomi details her first job in the world of media fresh out of college, and the different steps she has taken from there to get to where she is today. Finally, the two talk about her recent move from California to the city of Nashville, where Clay has called home for much of his life as well. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks
with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in Wins and Losses podcast.
Appreciate all of you listening to us. The most recent

(00:23):
Wins and Losses podcast that just went up a few
days ago, Bob Costas. If you've been in a long
time sports fan, you can check it out. I think
you will enjoy that examination of sports broadcasting and more.
And now we are embarking on the thirty six, I
believe is the number Wins and Losses podcast, and we
are joined now by Tommy Laren and I'm hoping that
I don't screw up anything when it comes to the

(00:45):
pronunciation of her name, because I know it has been
a ongoing battle for you in the world of of
rap songs, if nothing else. And we'll get to that
maybe in a little bit. But you now live in Nashville, Tommy,
and I'm curious how have you found Nashville to be
as a city to live in. Obviously, right now we're
in the grips of ridiculousness surrounding the pandemic, and that's

(01:07):
kind of the case anywhere in the country. But what
have you found it to be like in Nashville? Do
you like it? I love Nashville, but I also fled
from Los Angeles, so I do feel like somewhat of
a refugee here in the South. I got away from California.
I actually moved right at the beginning of April, so
in the height of the pandemic, I was smart enough

(01:28):
to get the heck out of California. I love Nashville.
It is a blue city, as you and I both know,
and I came in here guns blazing, and I don't
think people on the left love it so much. But
I'm so critical of the mayor. But I tell them,
if I've lived here for one day, I've lived here
for a year or five years, I'm always going to
hold my elected leaders accountable. And we should all be
doing that, all right. So you are so right off

(01:51):
the top of you and I know each other. We've
got to know each other as you've moved to Nashville.
What I admire in general is fearlessness, and you are
incredibly fearless, especially at such a young age. So I
want to dive into how you got to the place
where you are now, which is an influential I think
it's fair to say firebrand in the world of the

(02:15):
social media universe, and the fact that you can take
the heat and you seem to enjoy the heat. But
before we get to all that, I don't feel like
your background is really that well known, and I'm kind
of fascinated by it. So let's let's start. You're you're
still young, but you're obviously very influential. But you were
born and raised I believe I've got this right in

(02:35):
South Dakota. Correct, Yes, so in the middle America, where
a forgotten Americans are that a lot of times we
referred to as a flyover state, middle class family only child,
rabid city South Dakota. A lot of people probably wouldn't
even know of it at all if it weren't for
Mount Rushmore and the President addressing the nation on fourth

(02:57):
of July from Mount Rushmore. But yes, that is where
I'm from, and I've lived about everywhere since then. All right,
so let's go back to you growing up in South Dakota. Well,
I have never been to South Dakota. I bet most
of our listeners have not been either. What is it
like to grow up in South Dakota. Well, South Dakota,
a lot of people don't know how beautiful it is.

(03:18):
And if my dad always says, we don't really need
them to know how beautiful it is, because then we
get an influx of liberals coming to bring our liberal
policies to South Dakota, like they've done in Wyoming, in
Montana and a lot of other are great in Midwestern states,
but being in South Dakota, honestly, it's just a lot
of hard working people, a lot of people of farming, ranching,

(03:39):
blue collar people who don't really want anything from anybody
but just want to be left to hell alone. That's
what I grew up with. That's the family I was
raised in, and that has a lot to do with
what I do. Now. What was it so you go
to high school? What kind of high school do you
go to? And were you political? Was there a moment
in time an election that you remember thinking, oh, this

(04:01):
really piqued my interest. How would you assess your interest
in political issues and where it came from? Well, I
was in fourth grade when September eleventh happened, and that
was obviously a big moment, and I remember watching the news.
I don't think a lot of kids my age were
really watching the news daily in fourth grade, but I've
always done it. Not just on September eleventh, but I

(04:23):
would do it all the time. I watched the news
every single night. It was important to me. And I've
always been political because I always felt like the news
got it wrong. I always felt like watching the mainstream media.
My my family would always watch ABC News. I feel
like they got a lot wrong about half this country,
and they just kind of forgot about half this country.
They catered to the coast, maybe Chicago, but everybody in

(04:45):
the middle. They got everything wrong when it came to agriculture,
when it came to gun rights, when it just came
to average people in the Midwest. I felt like they
just kind of glossed over us. So that always made
me political. And even in South Dakota, which is it
can servative red state and god willing it will always
be a conservative red state, I still went to public school.

(05:05):
I still had teachers that were liberal. I still had
teachers that, believe it or not, would make white students
feel like we had something to apologize for. I mean,
all those things that kids are going through now, I
still went through even being in South Dakota. So I'm
a pot back. I don't know why that's just been
ingrained in me, but I've always thought back. So you

(05:26):
went K through twelve to public school in South Dakota, Yes, sir,
I did all right. So in South Dakota, did you
grow up and again, like, were you on land? Were
you out on your own? Were you in a neighborhood
with homes close by? And were your parents particularly political?
So I grew up out of town, twelve miles out

(05:46):
of town, and suppose, and quite honestly, all my friends
lived in town and I lived out in the country.
So you learned to be around adults, and you learned
to entertain yourself. I found news and politics very interesting.
But yeah, I kind of grew up out of town
and that probably has a lot to do with it.
I had to find other ways to entertain myself. I

(06:07):
would actually watch the View anytime I had a chance.
Interesting how that worked out, But I think I just
started having opinions very early because of what I watched
on TV. Did you want brothers and sisters when you
were growing up? Absolutely not, so you you were you
loved being an only child. Yes, people asked me all

(06:29):
the time if I would like to have a brother
or sister. I tried that one time I had a
foreign exchange student. Didn't go well. I really loved just
being an only child. So where was the foreign exchange
student from in Spain? And uh, you know, great girl,
But when you're used to have in your own space,
having somebody live in your house for a year and

(06:50):
call your parents mom and dad, I just really wasn't
my thing. But I learned a lot from that experience,
that's for sure. So all right, Like when you were
in school, Um, you said you went K through twelve?
Public school? Were you political? And high school? Like, if
people were in your high school graduating class, how big
was it? Is it like a big school, small school?

(07:10):
How many people would have graduated with you? I think
that class is almost four hundreds, so it would be
we only have really two major high schools. And I
was always political. I was a student council, school board
of it. So they would not be surprised at all
by by the fact that you are in the political
arena right now. They would have totally seen this coming.

(07:31):
Oh yeah, I think I was voted most likely to
be president. Now, I really have no desire to be president.
But I've always been this way. I've always been political.
It's not something that I stumbled upon. I know that
there are a lot of conservatives right now, especially young conservatives,
who started out liberal and then they came to be conservative.
That was never me. I've always been read. I remember
having a McCain Palin sticker on my car in high school. Yes,

(07:56):
I did like John mcaine at one point he was
better than the alternative may and uh, I would argue
with people about it. I really have never cared. I've
always been someone that's going to stand up for my
belief So you graduate from high school and you make
the decision to go all the way to U and
l V for college. How and why did you make
that decision. I'm kind of an unconventional type of person,

(08:19):
and I thought, what is the most unconventional place I
can go from South Dakota? Las Vegas? Was it? I mean,
you've been to Las Vegas before. I had a couple
of times, because when you live in South Dakota, there's
not a whole lot of places you can get too quickly.
But Vegas is one of those places. And it's a
two hour flight, like a cheap flight, So I thought,
this is good. I can be two hours from home,

(08:41):
but I want to go somewhere where people are way
different than I am, that come from all different backgrounds.
As much as people might not believe it, I do
appreciate diversity and I like to be around it because
I learned from it. So I thought, Hey, where is
the weirdest place I can go and go to college?
In Las Vegas? Was it? So you go to Las Vegas.

(09:02):
Did you have an idea when you went to Las
Vegas that you were going to work in media or
how did that happen? Yeah? I was a journalism student
in political science and I always knew I wanted to
do that. I'm one of those kids that shot in
their mind, I'm going to be a TV post on
conservative news, and that's what I want to do. And

(09:23):
that's been my laser focus for a very long time.
So I was ready to do that. And I learned
a lot in Las Vegas. I mean, there's a lot
of places you can learn things, but maybe the weirdest
is Las Vegas. And you learn to get your common
sense in your street skills pretty fast. So when you're
in Las Vegas, do you have a job while you're
working there, while you're in school? What's your day to

(09:45):
day existence? And and did you guys and I don't
know the answer to this. What is the average un
l V kid like? I mean, you guys are right
there on the strip. Is Vegas a seductive place to
go spend time in casinos and around the club scene?
What's the average student life like at U and l V.
So a lot of my friends did work in the

(10:05):
casinos or at the pool. I mean in Las Vegas,
it was esteemed to be like a cabanah host or
a bottle girl. Yeah, oh, you could make a lot
of money, but it was almost that was on this
more important. In fact, then you could say that you were,
you know, going to be a doctor or a lawyer,
but if you were a cabanah host at the win,

(10:26):
that was seen as a much higher prize. And that's
what Vegas was like. I had friends that worked from
tenant night until five in the morning and really didn't
go to class, and but they didn't feel like they
had to because they were making a ton of money
on this trip. I really didn't have that luxury. I
didn't turn twenty one until my senior year. So I
worked in retail, and I didn't really have the luxury

(10:47):
of going out and partying because I had to pay rent.
That was that was my life. I went to school,
I worked, then I got off work and I did
school work, and then I got up, went to school
and then went to work. But where did you work
in retail? I worked at Express, the clothing store, So
you were while you were at U n l V.
You worked in Express, and you're making what like seven

(11:08):
or eight dollars an hour. I don't even think it
was that. Yeah, it was something around that. It was.
It was a minimum wage. Um. And I will tell anybody,
if you want a humbling experience and you want to
build character, work retail, and even better, work retail in
Las Vegas with her. People aren't that nice, and people
quite frankly, don't really care about you. I remember working

(11:30):
at Express and people walking in the door and me
greeting them and then just looking at me like I
had three eyes. Like it was they didn't understand why
I would even say hello and smile. And that was
so different from the way I grew up in South Dakota.
But it taught me a lot. It's interesting. When I
was in college at at gw UP in d C,
I worked in the Abercrombie and Fitch, which is a

(11:50):
ridiculous job to have, but I worked there in Pentagon
City Mall. I would take the subway from gw to
the Pentagon City Mall in Northern Virginia. And what was
interesting about while I worked there was they were doing
the Monica Lewinsky investigation. Like the Pentagon City Mall for
people out there who are not familiar with it is
a big and I'm assuming it's still a popular mall

(12:12):
in the DC area. But also it's where Marv Albert
allegedly there's a rich Carlton there. It's where Marv Albert,
the legendary NBA announcer, allegedly put on I don't think
it's alleged. I think he admitted it. He liked to
wear women's underwear and bite women. That happened at the
That was his big thing. Uh. And he's still got
to come back and call NBA games, which is one
of the all time great unbelievable comebacks in the history

(12:34):
of sports. Like everybody just forgets that Marv Albert would
put on women's underwear and bite women, and that was
like his thing. And then it's also where they confronted
Monica Lewinsky to begin the Clinton scandals. So I remember
reading all about that. The restaurant, if I remember correctly,
where they took her to try to offer her, uh
the ability to to testify against Bill Clinton was I

(12:57):
believe visible from where I worked at that Abercrombie and Fitch.
So this was a lustroous location, but it is at
the same time, I also was interning on Capitol Hill
and to your point, being at the very bottom of
the rung, as it pertains to very hierarchical cities like
I would say Vegas and DC are both that way,

(13:17):
where you know, it's a very top down if you're
wealthy and you're fortunate, and you have position of power,
you're in a different esteem and you're you have different
different levels of of a claim. I would say more
so than in most cities. It was definitely a place
where you got used to the fact that that you
could be forgotten for lack of any other word. And
I made I remember it was the most money i'd

(13:38):
made at the time. I was making seven dollars an
hour working in the Abercrombie and Fitch back then, which
seemed like a lot because I was making five to
work back home in Nashville. All Right, so you got
the job at Express, you're majoring in journalism. What didn't?
When did you start to realize? Because what I like
to tell people is television is a skill. Video is

(13:58):
a skill. You have to develop a skill to do
it well. You have the ability to do it well.
Was that something that was innate in some level? Or
did you find that there were people you could emulate
who did it well? How did you become good at
television and it conveying your opinions on video? I really

(14:19):
learned how to write well in school. But talking to
a camera in a very matter of fact way, I
think I started doing that too, just like a cam
quarter when I lived maybe five, six, seven, eight nine
years old. I remember my cousin and I would host
cooking shows just to a camera with plato and the
host shows. That's what I just I've always loved to do.

(14:41):
I've always loved to talk to a camera. And when
you're an only child and you live kind of far
out of town, you learned to talk to yourself, and
you learned to talk to the mirror a lot and
have an opinion. And it really is where I got
this from, and I actually prided myself. I think you
and I are similar in this um. We speak regular
and to where I grew up. So I don't try

(15:02):
to talk over people's heads. I've heard to talk like
people talk, sometimes to the dismay of a lot of
people in media, but I will swear I won't use
correct English. Sometimes not, but I don't know what it is.
But I like to talk to regular because I think
it's more relatable. And I've just always been that way.
So I can be like a trained journalist and know
how to write and know how to do TV in
a news way, but that's never really what I wanted

(15:24):
to do. I always just wanted to kind of be me.
So it's interesting. I want to unpack a little bit
of what you said there for people out there who
are listening. My goal early on, I decided that I
wanted my voice to sound the same whether you were
reading a written article that I did, whether you were
listening to me on radio, whether you're listening to me
on this podcast, and for that to be a voice

(15:44):
that was relatable to a large audience and almost like
I've always admired, and this certainly came from from law school,
the ability of a great attorney to break down for
a jury a really complex subject but in a way
that everybody can understand, whether you're a janitor or a neurosurgeon.
There's a depth of knowledge there. And I think one

(16:05):
way to develop depth of knowledge is by doing your
own writing. And so you write your own takes. There
are people out there, I'm sure who you see all
the time, who criticized you and say, oh, she's just
reading glass, She's just reading what somebody else is telling
her to say, she's a performance artist. But you are
coming up with all of your own takes and writing

(16:28):
them daily, which takes a lot of discipline. When did
that start? When did you start to develop that discipline
of writing your own takes and then recording them. Well,
I've always done it. I've always been a writer. I've
always enjoyed writing. But for me, nobody can really speak
like I speak, and so if somebody put something in
a teleprons that I have not written, I don't do

(16:50):
well with it because it's not in my voice. And
you and I are very similar in that. What you
said is I really do write like I speak, So
I were the way that I write on it than
that telepromter is the way that I'm going to say it.
And it's just my own style. And I write my
fun at that every single day. And I like to
be sassy and sarcastic, and sometimes I sit here in

(17:10):
my home in Nashville, Tennessee and just laugh at myself
for the funny joke I made about Hillary Clinton or
Joe Biden. And I love to do that. I love
to poke fun and I love to write in a
way that's serious but also kmmo sarcastic, and I love
the instant gratification of being able to put that out
there and watch people watch it and see the views.
That's what Greco came to me. What was the first

(17:33):
thing you did? Was it at U n l V
that you remember got some attention in the opinion space?
Do you remember the very first thing that that maybe
cut through the audience and started to get attention. Well,
my first job was when I was twenty one years old.
I worked at One American News and people really weren't
familiar with one American News. Now they are because the

(17:54):
President has kind of given them a shout out. So
how did you get that gig show? How did you
get that gig? Old and asked for an internship. I
was faced to get an internship at the Blaze, and
then I didn't work out. So I started calling conservative
news outlets and I found one American News, and I
just called and asked for an internship, and they said,
we don't give internships, but you can come in and talk,

(18:15):
and I said sure, And I know the poll a
few times before I finally got to talk to the
right person, but I was persistent and I just wanted
a shot. And for a lot of people, they don't
get the internship they want, or they don't get the
job that they want, and they boozoo and cry in
the corner until sorry for themselves or moved back in
with mom and dad. I was never going to do
that because that really wasn't an option. I'm not going
back to South Dakota, so I'm gonna find somewhere to

(18:36):
go when I graduate. And I found One American News,
which is quirky and cookie and a very interesting place
to work. But I was twenty one years old, and
he said, I'm gonna give you your own show, so
make sure you go write it and you're not really
going to have a producer, but just um do what
you will with it. So that with my marching orders,

(18:57):
that is pretty insane, all right, So one years old?
Who is the person who makes the decision that you
can work at O way in? And what did that
first show look like? It was the owner of One
American News uh Mr H as we call him, or
Robert Herring, a really nice older man who sometimes wasn't nice,

(19:18):
but he gave me a shot. He saw something in
me that I guess nobody else would have really seen
that twenty one years old, not many people would be
given their own show. But I cracked a couple of
bamba jokes with him, and he thought I was articulate
and we had a great conversation, and I think he
just kind of thought I could do it, So I will,
And he gave me the opportunity to do that show

(19:38):
and it was called on Point with Tommy Laren and
we did it, and I had to just search my
own guests. I would find him on Twitter, asked him
to come on, and I always did a segment at
the end of the show called final Thoughts, and sometimes
we would take those final thoughts and we put them
up on YouTube or Facebook. And that's kind of what
I'm known for now. So when did you So, when

(20:00):
did you do your very first show for One American News?
Oh a in boy, it was right before my twenty
second birthday. Um, yeah, I was August of I guess
that would have been uh. And then when I really
went viral though, is I did Final Foss after the attack,

(20:22):
the terrorist attack in Chattanooga and Obama's leadership. I had
my boyfriend at the time was a Navy seal and
he was overseas and I remember just being so angry
and so upset at the failed leadership of Barack Obama
and the danger he was putting our troops in by
tying their hands. And I just went off. And that

(20:44):
was my first viral moment, when everything kind of clipped
and people knew who I was and started hating me
at the same time. So what is that like? Because
you're young, I mean, and and so you're twenty one,
about twenty two, you start doing this video in August
of team And what I always say is there's lots
of people who say they want to be in media,

(21:05):
but in social media in particular, that comes with a
degree of hate and sometimes love that most people frankly
can't manage, right, And so your comments, my comments anybody
in media who is particularly opinionated. I always say, it's
a little bit like taking a small dose of poison

(21:26):
every day and you just develop a tolerance for it
that would kill your average person, right, Because every now
and then somebody comes into the arena and they say
they want to be, you know, in the same business,
and then they look at their mentions after they say
something opinionated and they just immediately retreat and they don't
have any interest for it. What was it like for you,
Because one of the things that's fascinating is you manage

(21:47):
your own social media accounts, your own Instagram accounts, your
own Twitter accounts, your Facebook accounts, everything else. How did
you get used to handling the degree of vitriol that
could come at you on social media. I think it
may have bothered me for a couple of days, but
quite frankly, I was much more interested in the comments

(22:10):
that I got from people in the military, in law enforcement,
from you know, that middle American silent majority that I
grew up in and saying thank you for saying what
we wanted to say. I pay far more attention to
that than I do the haters in the backlash. And
I know a lot of people say that they don't
care what people think. I promise you play, I don't
care whether these people think. I really don't when they

(22:32):
when they say awful things about me, it's like, well,
I must have struck a nerve. And at the end
of the day, in my business, that's what I'm trying
to do. I'm not trying to intentionally be a shock jock.
I mean everything that I say, but if someone doesn't
like it, listen, I do a political commentary for a living.
If you like everything that I'm saying, there's a problem.
So it's never really bothered me. I have a rhino

(22:54):
sick skin, and at this point it's so conditionally I
know you're used to this as well, that I just
don't care anymore. Be sure to catch live editions about
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and the ad Council. So this is fascinating to me
because my wife says that's my superpower and it doesn't

(24:44):
seem to me, like a lot of people claim that
they don't care, but I, I just really don't care,
you know, And I don't really understand why that is.
And we're talking this is wins and losses, and we're
talking with Tommy Lauren, Tommy like, why do you think
we have that? Right? Like, is there something wrong with us?
Because I and I think it's a positive for what

(25:05):
we do in the universe in which we're in. And
I think being opinionated and being willing to say exactly
what you think and being fearless regardless of what the
motivation behind it is politically or or or or you know,
basically any opinion base. Have you really set down? Because
every now and then I'll get asked that and I'll
sit down and I'll try to deconstruct it. But it's

(25:25):
not something that I have created. It's just the way
I think that I've always kind of been. And the
answer that I give is, I think going away to
college on the East Coast for me was big because
there were so many total assholes on the East Coast
and I grew up in the South and everybody was
pretty nice. You know, that was something that you kind
of got used to. You live in Nashville now. As

(25:45):
a general rule, I think the city of Nashville is
filled with a lot of friendly people. And I thought
I was pretty friendly, and then I went to d
C and spend a lot of time around East Coast kids,
and they were total assholes, and I think it did
toughen me up a lot. I think I was kind
of a pussy when I went away to school, like
many people are when they're like eighteen or nineteen years old.
And like, do you think that that going to Vegas,

(26:07):
which is kind of a tough town, did it for you?
Or do you think we're actually just that's our personalities
and it just kind of reveals itself. I spent a
lot of time because I do think it's the single
most valuable at your work. Hard is number one. Number
two is you can't allow people to get in your
head and bother you. And I think those are the
two most valuable attributes to success in a media age now. Absolutely,

(26:31):
and there probably is something wrong with us. I don't
know what it is, but I do think that there
are a selected group of people in this country, especially
on the right or that are more conservative or even independent,
just not in the leftist mob. There needs to be
some of us who have that, because if there weren't,
we'd be completely drowned out. There has to be some

(26:52):
people that are I don't even want to call it graves,
but I don't like to use the word brave that
just don't care and don't give any f I think
there needs to be some of us, because if there's not,
it's not represented. So I take it as a badge
of honor if I if I need to be the
one that's controversial enough to say blue lives matter and
stick up for law enforcement and love the flag and

(27:14):
believe that our nation needs to have a border and
the gun rights are important. If that makes me hated
by some people, I'm pretty okay with that. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
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(27:35):
the Perez family home, just waiting for the And there
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Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up
the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers
and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom has just nailed

(27:56):
the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now
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of the car and there it goes. Oh, that's a
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(28:19):
small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like making sure
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(28:42):
walk a mile in my shoes, wac a mile in
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(29:05):
grows in the forest trees? Sure, No. What else grows
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The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest

(29:26):
near you and start exploring. I Discover the forest. Dot
org brought to you by the United States Forest Service
and the AD Council. We're talking to Tommy Lauren. This
is Wins and Losses Podcast. I'm Clay Travis. All right,
So you're at O A N you start to have
some success. What happens next? Well, then I was kind
of faced with a decision if I was going to

(29:48):
stay there and kind of just stay in my comfort zone.
And it was in San Diego, a beautiful place to live,
or I was going to do something different. I really
feel like I capped on my potential there and it
would have been come table to stay there. They offered
me in our three year contracts for quite a bit
of money. When you're twenty two years old and that's
your first job. It was quite a bit of money

(30:08):
and comfortable, but I just didn't want to be comfortable.
I always want to challenge myself, and I think for me,
that's the biggest thing I always asked myself, is what's next?
Because I never want to feel segnant. And so the
opportunity presented itself for me to go to the Blaze.
Fox News wasn't quite ready for me yet. I was
too young, I understand. So I took that jump, in

(30:28):
that leap and moved to Dallas and started my show
at a Blaze. So what happens in Dallas? What do
you do with the Blaze? That's different than O A.
And that's when I first met you. I went on
your show a couple of times and I remember being like, man,
this girl is pretty fearless, right, and uh, and so
you were in Dallas and we overlapped with friends there
in Dallas. I think you got into the sports circuit

(30:51):
a little bit, you know, some of the cowboys and
some of the people in in that universe, and we
started to overlap there a little bit with sports. But
and certainly the Colin Kaepernick issues all start to arise
in sports becomes intensely political. So that's how we initially met.
What kind of success did you have at the Blaze
and how was it different than what might have been
happening at O A. N. I had a lot of

(31:15):
fun at the Blaze because that was in the high
of the election. And believe it or not, even though
I worked at a conservative news network, I was the
only Trump supporter on air. Everyone else in that building
hated Donald Trump. Blendeck himself had a deep hatred for
Donald Trump. He was the quintessential never Trumper and everybody

(31:35):
else in that building was too. And now they'll try
to deny it, They'll try to pretend that they were
on that Trump train. They weren't. It was just me
And so I was at a conservative network being the
only Trump supporter, and I had so much fun during
that election, and then of course we had um Beyonce
super Bowl performance. I did some final thoughts about that,
landed my voice in a j Z song. Then of

(31:56):
course we had Colin Kaepernick did some final thoughts about
that because the lot of people off. And then we
had the election of Donald Trump. So that was really
one of the greatest times in my career. I had
so much fun doing it, and you know, I would
have Nightline come and interview me at my house and
it was a great time until at all abruptly ended.
So I'm gonna go back to election night. Did you

(32:18):
expect Trump to win? Like? Deep down, I'm not talking
about publicly where some people feel, you know, like, oh,
I'm supporting this guy, so I don't want to say
anything negative about his chances. Were you surprised or did
you think that he was going to win that night?
In I thought it could go either way. Of course,
we know that the polls are telling us there was

(32:39):
no shot in hell. That night, I felt good. So
when the states started coming in we started winning, it
was amazing. I remember sitting there with one back by
the way who told everybody if they were going to
come to coverage to bring something to calm their nerves,
and he sat in the back and painted with a
smack on and was painting watercolor like a weird oh.

(33:00):
And I remember sitting here thinking, I'm the only one
in this room that once as president to win. I'm
at a conservative news network and they're sitting here crying
when states are coming in for Trump. And I just
remember laughing. I thought it was the funniest thing. They
were so angry, so bitter at me. I didn't care.
I had a great night. And then um, the middle
of the night, Glenn just got up in less he
couldn't even stomach it anymore. And I remember he told

(33:23):
somebody in the control room, don't let Tommy take this over.
And I'm thinking, well, hey, I'm sorry that I was
right and you all were wrong, but it's a great
night for me, and it's a great night for America,
all right. So then how much longer are you at
the Blaze? So I was at the Blaze until the
middle of March, and then I went on this little

(33:44):
show called The View, and uh, I express the fact
that I am pro choice because I believe in limited government,
not the most conservative thing to say, however, I believe
that it's one of the most conservative things you can
say to believe in limited government. But either I thought
it was great. I remember thinking it was going to
be a blood bath if I've been on The Daily

(34:04):
Show with Trevor Noah, and I thought, oh boy, these
women are just going to lose their minds, are gonna
hate me. It's going to be another blood bath situation.
But it wasn't, and it was very respectful, and I
thought I did a great job. I got a lot
of great messages from even people at the Blaze. And
then it all went to hell and I found out.

(34:25):
This was on a Friday, and on Monday, I found
out that they had fired me and they had suspended
my show. And that's when the real fund began. So
you got fired and suspended for saying that you were
pro choice. Do you think that's what it was? That's
what it was. They said that I offended the community.
So the political Commentator, which by the way, I had

(34:48):
a profile in the New York Times where I said
I was pro choice, and I think I said it
on my show probably at least once a month, that
I believed in limited government and I don't care what
you do with your life. I just don't want to
pay for it. I'd say that often, But this was
Glenn's way of getting me out. He thought, Okay, she
was just write about this election. I was a never
Trump or Trump is now our president. He's kind of

(35:10):
looking bullish. So we thought, what is the way that
I can turn everyone against her and get rid of her. Oh,
I know, I'll say that she offended the community and
she's not a real conservative. That was his out. That's
what he did, And he thought I would just go
away quietly. Apparently wasn't paying superless attention to the kind
of person I am. All right, So this to me
is fascinating because I think if you believe a hundred

(35:33):
percent in any political party, you aren't actually using your brain, right,
And I think if you agree a hundred with any president,
you aren't actually using your brain. And I'm not even
sure if I were president of the United States that
I would agree with me a hundred percent, because so
many of the choices that have to be made are hard,
and if you sit there in weigh the different angles,

(35:55):
you might change your opinion over the course of four
years based on the data that's put in front of you. Right. So,
um so, when I saw that that you were getting
a lot of flak for saying that you are pro choice,
I actually thought, well, this makes me even more impressed,
because if you have an audience that likes you, sometimes

(36:15):
you can get seduced into only telling things that you
think they're all going to agree with you on, right, Like,
That's that's sort of the affirmation cycle that you can
find yourself in. But it's fundamentally dishonest because there are
things that many people who are listening to this right
now that they hear they're like, oh, I don't agree
with clear, Like, I'm pretty straightforward about many different things.

(36:37):
I'm pro choice like you are not. Because and by
the way, that's with a family of three. I just
I find it unbelievable to think that if I had
a fourteen year old daughter, let's say, and she got pregnant,
that the government would mandate one way or the other
about the choice that she would have to make at
fourteen years old. Or I've got three boys, if one

(36:59):
of them had a girlfriend and they got pregnant, I
think the idea that a government would swoop in and say, hey,
you have to make this choice is just wrong. That's
my opinion. I understand that other people might disagree with it,
but when I saw that quote from you, I was like, well,
this is fascinating. Um. And then it ultimately ends up
in a legal battle and you find your way to

(37:21):
Fox News, which is probably where you wanted to be
when you started at oh A n So it ended
up working out okay for you. What is has been
the fallout since then? Uh as as in terms of
whether or not you're allowed to be conservative and have
opinions that aren't conservative orthodoxy. You know, That's what bothers
me about some some conservatives, not all, but some conservatives

(37:44):
who think we all have to fit into this little box.
That's not human nature to fit into that box. And
I'll tell you this, there are so many girls that
I talked to, young girls who will message me and
they say, you know, tell me, I really like what
you say, but I don't know how I can vote
Republican or I don't know how I can vote for
on Trump because you know, I'm pro choice and I'm
okay with same sex marriage, so I have to be

(38:05):
a liberal. I'm like, whoa, whoa. As conservatives, we're doing
a disservice to ourselves and our country and our party
by telling people that are you know, okay with LGBT
or pro LGBT community or pro choice, that they don't
fit into our box. That's just not how it is.
I'd rather have a fiscal conservative who believes in securing

(38:25):
leaves in low taxes and freedom then fitting into this
little box. So I, you know, I get flats from
it A lot of time. I have people, you know,
you've had guests and your show. I won uh one
of our probably near national residents very shortly, Ben Shapiro,
who constantly says that I'm not a conservative and I
can't be in the Conservative Party and I'm not you know,

(38:45):
welcome at the table. And that doesn't bother me either.
I don't care if liberals hate me. I don't care
conservative hate hates me. I'll just gonna be me either way.
And so at Fox News, what has your role been there?
So I helped launch our digital streaming platform, Fox Nation,
which you're going to join me on very shortly. But

(39:07):
I've been able to do my final Fox commentary every day,
but also do one firm episodes. I've gotten on the
border several times I get to sit down with interesting
people like yourself and have longer form conversations, and it's
put up on a digital platform kind of like a
Netflix for Fox News. And so that's what I've been
doing at Fox for about three years now and still
getting into plenty of trouble on Twitter. So you are

(39:31):
outspoken on Twitter. I am outspoken on Twitter. One of
the reasons why I love owning out kick is and
this is why I started out Kick now it's been
nine years ago, was I understand the way that big
corporate media works. And many times and I can imagine
now because I am a boss and we have a
lot of different employees. You've got a billion things that

(39:53):
you're trying to take care of, and every now and
then one of your talents sends out a tweet and
you get complaints about it or get media inquiries about it,
and you're like, why won't he or she just shut up.
I hate to sound like the man, but I understand
that perspective. But I'm also on the talent side pretty
firmly where and everybody out there who who was listening

(40:14):
to this knows that I'm a First Amendment absolutist that
I believe in the marketplace of ideas, and I am
horribly troubled more so by probably anything, by this constraining
of what ideas are able to be shared. And I
think COVID and everything surrounding it has put this entire

(40:35):
there's an appropriate opinion to have in an inappropriate opinion
to have on steroids? Have you gotten that sense too,
that even after Trump want wins in and everybody's like, oh,
we need to listen to everybody's opinion and everything else,
that it feels like every day and every week and
every month and certainly every year, the allowable uh comments

(40:58):
on social media are getting more in more constrained, and
therefore the opinions are becoming more and more constrained, and
so are the debates. Oh absolutely, I mean I just
saw today on Twitter they're still trying to say that
voting by mail is safer and more secure than voting
in person, something that I am adamantly against. But I've
had my experience with being shadow band on social media.

(41:20):
Just last week, I posted a picture with a trend
up and I asked my friends, Hey, did you see
this in your feed? And they said no, I didn't
see it. I didn't see it on any of my accounts,
and I started asking people on social media did you
see this post? And I got hundreds and hundreds of messages, No,
I don't see this in my feed. In fact, I
don't see a lot of your stuff in my feet anymore.

(41:43):
Big tech is taking this election to a new extreme,
and they're gonna try to drown out considerative and Trump
supporting supporting voices under the guise of election integrity or
whatever they want to call it. And it's gonna get worse,
I believe, after he wins. But the dad thing is
a social media is kind of our best resource right now?
You think so? And obviously the New York Post story

(42:04):
Hunter Biden, the way that it was covered it really,
I think opened a lot of people's ideas to the
marketplace being constrained. Now. You manage your own Facebook accounts,
you manage your Instagram accounts, you manage your Twitter accounts.
For people out there who may not be as active
on social media, how would you describe the interactions that

(42:24):
you get on those different accounts and how would you
break down the effectiveness of each of them in terms
of sharing your content with them? As someone who does
all that management herself, which is really pretty incredible. And
how big are those audiences for you now? Well, on
Twitter I got about one point seven million, Facebook's about

(42:46):
four point nine million, and Instagrams one point eight million.
So I've been blessed to have a lot of those
followers that have been following me for years and following
my career. But I mean, I didn't even look at
them mentions from people without blue check mark, but the
mention just from people with blue check marks to me
are vile and somehow appropriate. I mean, last week doing

(43:07):
the final debate coverage, people didn't like what I tweeted,
and so they're asking why I'm still alive with blue checkmarks.
But you know that's okay on Twitter. But anything that
I say I get reports about, and apparently it's beyond
the pale um. We all know it's happening, we all
know it's never going to be fair, and we just
gotta do the best we can, so all of them.

(43:29):
I mean, that's a massive audience that you are able
to reach theoretically through all three of those platforms. And
you also, we hear a lot when people are women
and they are liberal about all of the awful things
that people say to women who are liberal, right, Like,
that's a big talking point in the world of sports media.

(43:51):
Oh my god, you could never imagine the things that
people say to liberal women in the sports media on Twitter, Facebook,
whatever else. You get that times hundred, I imagine. And
yet nobody I ever see out there saying, man, poor Tommy,
she gets so much abuse as a woman. It's really
not fair, right, Like, you don't get protected in any way, No,

(44:14):
not at all. In fact, I've actually had people throw
things at me on me when I'm with my parents,
and people surely that I think it's so great, I'm
getting what I deserve, blah blah blah. No, but you
know what, I don't need their protection. I don't need
the feminist to come to my defense. I just don't.
And anybody who feels like a victim, I've never gotten
up one day in my life and felt like a victim.

(44:35):
Even though things have been you know, rocky for me,
sometimes a little said horrible things. I'm not going to
cry over it, because at the end of the day,
I chose this career. But the double standard really is
the only standards of the left, and it's quite apparent.
It is amazing. Now I talked about, you know, the
way that people respond and how you can handle things,
and part of look, I'm forty one, I'm quite a

(44:57):
bit older than you, and I've got three kids, I've
got a wife. I have sort of a universe outside
of what I do for a living. So I really
do not care because at times, you know, I'm coaching
flag football, or I'm at you know, basketball coaching or whatever.
You know, like, I'm involved in my kids lives, and
so there is an escape for me. Do you think

(45:19):
it's better or worse to be single and be in
the middle of these battles every single day? Do you
ever wonder, man, I wish I could just dial out
and and and have like a serious boyfriend or a
husband or whatever, Like, how do you get away from
the noise? For lack of a better way of phrasing it,
And do you think it's better or worse to be single?
As a part of it? You've met my friends, so

(45:42):
you know, I have a good old time here in Nashville, Tennessee. Yes,
that is my way of getting is escaping it. And
you know, some people they're hard on me for that
because they hate the fact that I'll go on Instagram
and post boomerangs at the bar with my friends on
the weekend. But I'm still a twenty eight year old girl.
I still have fun. Oh shutter at the fact, you know,
I drink beer and I have some with my friends
and we sing Kari Okay and Miss Kelly's and we

(46:02):
hang out at Winners and Losers of this every weekend.
That is my escape. To me. Social media is this
fictitious little place that I go and I work and
I care about but you've had to check out. And
I have a lot of fun and Nashville way more
fun than I had in California. And I still remind
myself that I am still just a twenty eight year
old average girl, and that is how I feel and

(46:25):
that is how I act, and I think that's why
I'm relatable. I think that's why people take a liking
to me on social media because they see that I'm
not just invested in politics seven I have a life.
I go out, I have fun, and I think we
should all be doing that, especially with everything going on
right now. You know, if the mayor lets us, but
don't get that night cod because it comes out after

(46:46):
eleven GM and are perfew email Be sure to catch
live editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis week
days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. Look for
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(47:10):
They see a windy path that could lead to adventure,
and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world?
Find a forest near you and start exploring and discover
the forest dot Org brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the ad Council. I know people
are listening in all different cities and states right now,
but in Nashville in particular, where you and I both live,

(47:31):
I believe the bars have to be closed by eleven
o'clock right now. It's almost like COVID only spreads at
you know, after eleven, because the bars can be open
all day restaurants as well. And we're talking to Tommy
Laren and she is you can find her on all
these different places. I don't even need to tease it
because she's got so many people on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram,
but you can find her easily there. So you're in

(47:51):
Nashville now, and I've been out. I've seen you interact
with people, people want photos. It's a pretty uh, it's
a pretty fun environment for the environment so far that
I've seen. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general,
how would you assess the way that people treat you
out in public in Nashville compared to l A. Yeah,
it's a night and day difference from l A. And

(48:13):
I think the reason for that is it's not because
everybody in Nashville is conservative. You and I both know
that's not the case. But the liberals that might hate me,
they don't feel as emboldened to come up and say
something to me like they would in l A. And
I'll tell you in l A. I have been pushed,
i have been picked, I have been tripped, I've been
shouted down because they know that probably of the people

(48:37):
in the place are going to encourage that because they
know that they have a liberal monopoly, so they feel
very strong and really a powerful and Nashville that's not
the case. There are many liberals that are brave enough
to come up and say something if they know that,
perhaps they'll be five of their conservatives nearby. So people
are pretty nice to me here. Plus I just hang
out in places that conservatives are. If you guys come

(49:00):
and Nashville, you'd have to go to Winners and Losers.
That's where I frequent and people are very nice to me.
There a lot of patriots, a lot of military, a
lot of law enforcement, and I just love in Nashville
the Winners and Losers, a lot of fun. Steve Ford
has got great places there in Nerve and everybody else.
That's been a staple for local Nashvillians for a long
time in midtown. Now, what happens next? So you're only

(49:24):
twenty eight, and it's amazing how quickly you have developed
a large audience You've been in rapidly. Before I get
to what happens next, what is to you the craziest
thing that has happened to you since you left U
n l V. Where it's only been seven years basically
since you started working in media, but it feels like

(49:45):
a lifetime because so much craziness has happened. What is
the wildest thing in your experience that has happened in
your career where you had to pinch yourself and you
were like, I can't believe this is going on screadily
than I had simultaneous. We have both Nicki Minaj and
Cardi b That's probably not something I ever thought would happen,

(50:05):
especially since the two of them don't like each other,
but they seem to bond overrating me. So that was
an interesting How did that happen? And how did Nicki
manag and come after you? Yeah? So, Ardi b I
had said she had made a video talking about how
much she hate founded Trump, some kind of a just
kind of a stumbling mess video, and I tweeted that,

(50:28):
oh boy, look at here's the political genius of our generation.
And then she told me that she was gonna dog
lock me, and she's treated on me several times since then.
And then Nicki Minaj um I had said something about
immigration and she basically told me that, you know, I'm
not from here and I'm not native American. So I've
had a few with both of them kind of around

(50:49):
the same time. Very interesting, a very weird place to be.
I think about every rappers had an issue with me
at one point or another. Interesting. But how have you
been in how many rap songs have you been name
checked in? There's a couple at least right, there's at
least to one of them my voices in. That's the
jay Z soun for those that want to listen to

(51:09):
drug dealers anonymous, I push t and jay Z my
voice is and that one. And then I was in
a wallet song where he calls me Tammy, and so
of course, as you know docks wife, she'd call me
Tammy because he called me Tammy Lauren, and that's my
I guess that's my new um pseudonym. I don't know,
but I've been at least two and then a handful
of other smeller ones. What is it like to hear

(51:31):
your name in a rap song? It's very surreal. I
don't think that anybody growing up in rapid city, South
Dakota thinks that they're going to be known or mentioned
by some of the biggest rappers you know, in the industry.
So it's surreal. But I just I guess I'm doing
something right. I mean, I love rap music, so I'll

(51:52):
take it. So that would surprise some people who are
listening right now, because there they would listen and they
would think, Oh, I think at least the expectation would
be that you are not a fan of pop culture,
or you're not engaged with what is being produced in
Hollywood and whatnot. But that's not really true, right, like

(52:14):
you are and and and I think you believe and
I think you're probably right that there are many people
like you who will vote for Donald Trump and also
love let's say, The Real Housewives or or would carry
a gun, and also like rap music as a you know,
as a truck voting conservative. Right like that that that

(52:34):
cross poll nation is occurring, And I think the stereotype
would be that it isn't. Well. The reason that I
talk about pop culture is because I understand pop culture.
I am a consumer of pop cultures, so I love it.
I as you mentioned, I love The Housewives, I love Bravo.
I don't think it caters to conservative women, and I

(52:55):
don't think conservative women sometimes feel like they have a
place in it. But we still watch it, we still listen.
You know, you can be conservative and still watch Andy
Cohen and tune out at the liberal parts, and you
can still listen to rap music and enjoy all these
singers and people whould be surprised and all I like
jay Z, I like Beyonce. Listen to their music. I
think they're crazy, but I like their music. And you

(53:17):
can still have those opinions and appreciate that even if
you don't agree with someone. Politically, and conservative women and
conservatives in general, yeah, we're still viewers. By the way,
I think that, you know, NFL and sports are starting
to realize that maybe now. Oh, I don't think there's
any doubt. So I asked this question before. What's next?
So you are twenty eight years old. You have gone

(53:39):
from O. A. N to The Blaze to Fox News.
A lot of people would say, oh, that's the that's
the gold standard, right for any conservative commentator to reach
Fox News. You're at Fox Nation and you have a
monstrous social media following across Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, for people
that are engaging with your opinion is either agreeing or disagreeing.

(54:02):
What's next for you? What do you want? What would
you like to do? You know, I don't know the
answer to that question because I don't like to plan
things out because it never really turns out the way
I planned. Anyway. If there's anything I've learned from my career,
is that I really can't have that much of a plan.
But I will tell you this, I'm always going to
be me. I'm always gonna tell it like it is.

(54:22):
And it will be the coldest day in hell the
day that I stopped being me and I cater or
cow tow to anybody. So I'm just gonna keep doing this.
I'm really excited to see the results of this election.
We'll see where that pusses as a nation. But I'm
gonna keep doing what I'm gonna do. And I think
what's so important is is having fearless voices out there who,
despite whose president, or who's being elected, or what the

(54:45):
election year is or the political climate, that just tell
it like it is and are fearless and never apologize.
I'm just gonna keep doing that wherever it takes me.
Here I am one week from today. Basically, is the
election you think that Trump will win. If Trump loses,
how does it change your career path? If at all?
Have you even thought about that? Is it better or

(55:07):
worse for you depending on whether he wins and loses
or ultimately for what you do? Does the president really matter?
I worry less about my career and I worry more
about all the average Americans out there that are going
to be crushed under a Biden let's be real Harris administration.
So I worry about them, But I am very confident

(55:28):
in this president. I know that the left is going
to do whatever they have to do through cheating, voter fraud,
I to try to win this election and then maybe
pack the course whatever that schisy crap they want to pull.
But I think that the silent majority is going to
come out in such strong numbers that we're going to
even overwhelm that. So I'm very, very confident in another
four years of Donald Trump. It's after that, but we

(55:49):
have to worry about You're only I know, I said
that was one of my last questions, But do you
have any interest at all in ever running for political
office yourself? The only thing I think I would run for,
and this would be a while because I got to
get acclimated. But you know how much I dislike this
mayor in Nashville. So if I was here long enough

(56:09):
and I felt like I could do a good job
for Nashville, I might step up to the plate for that.
But everything else, quite frankly, I have way too much
fun hanging out with my friends and going to the
bars on the weekend. I really don't want a life
in public office. That is Tommy Laron. Uh, this has
been fantastic. What else? Is there anything else you would
like to tell people who are out there listening that

(56:30):
maybe you haven't gotten Let me take a step back.
People who listen to this podcast a lot have heard
me say this before when I was doing depositions I
used as a when I was a practicing attorney. I
used to like to ask the question at the end,
was there anything you wish that I had asked you
that gives you an opportunity to talk to an audience
and tell someone something that otherwise you haven't been able to.

(56:51):
And I always got such interesting answer sometimes doing that,
and I've translated it to this life as well. Was
there anything else you would like for the audience listening
to us right now to know about you that they
don't or that I haven't given you an opportunity to
talk about here? I guess my piece of advice to
anybody listening, whether on the left or the riot, or

(57:12):
sports fan or a political fan or Donald Trump supporter,
I would just remind them never apologize when you're right.
Always apologize when you're wrong, but never apologize when you're right.
I never will do it, especially don't apologize for an opinion.
I always say the only thing I'll acknowledge getting wrong
is a fact, because it can lead to an opinion

(57:33):
that I don't have the same basis for that I
thought I did before. But this idea that you have
to constantly bend at the altar of submission to all
the people who are losers sitting around on social media
all day is patently absurd. Tommy, I know we talk,
are going to talk. Some people may be coming in
to listen to this podcast through the Fox Nation Interview.
I look forward to that, and I look forward to
to seeing here around the city of Nashville and maybe

(57:55):
helping you with your mayoral campaign one day. Alright, deal
sounds good. We'll see you at Losers for sure. That
is Tommy Loren. Encourage you to go follow her if
you're not already one of the millions of people who
are following her. I am Clay Travis. This has been
the Wins and Losses podcast, the thirty six different interview
in long form conversation. I hope you're enjoying them. If

(58:15):
you enjoyed this one, I'd encourage you to check out
some of the others. Thanks for hanging with us on
Wins and Losses. I'm Clay Travis and she is Tommy
loren and we appreciate the time