February 1, 2020 • 50 mins
This week, Gottlieb remembers Kobe Bryant's impact on the game, and shares some personal stories from his conversations and interactions with the Mamba on hoops, life, fatherhood and his daughter Gianna. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts!
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tune in. That's one flowers dot com slash tune in. Hey,
(01:08):
welcome in. This is the All Ball Podcast. I'm Doug
gottlie Band. I'm joining you actually from Super Week and
you know, I thought about how to put together a
Kobe podcast. Next week we'll have I've reached out to
a couple of other people, and um, I you know,
we have some really good guests lined up to talk
some more Kobe. But I want to share with you
(01:29):
guys a couple of things because one, I think it's
cathartic too. I kind of got to know him and
and and honestly, he was he actually had asked me
to come on this podcast. And this is a weird
thing in our business. You know, when you make a friend.
And Kobe and I weren't always friendly or friends or whatever.
(01:50):
Like I didn't really know him. Um, it's like we're
like ships passing the night, like Los Angeles. Orange County
is my hometown. Yet he moved into Newport Beach when
I was you know, I was away college and then
playing overseas, and you know, for the first it was
a twelve years out of college. You know, there's two
(02:12):
thousand twelve. I didn't live in southern California. I barely
vacation in southern California. Just my in laws are in Oklahoma.
We were we were East coast or traveling. I would
would come out maybe once a year. But you know,
I didn't though him a native Los Angeleno or native
of Orange County. I didn't, um, you know, he he
(02:35):
kind of dug roots in Orange County that I had
already had and maybe it had been uplifted a little bit.
So anyway, UM, I just here's kind of the my
Kobe Bryant story. As we all kind of collectively grieve,
and I think the grieving is multi layered. You're grieving
the loss of Kobe Bryant. You're grieving, you know, for
(02:57):
many people, a basketball hero. I think what he become
as an iconic figure um in the American sports lexicon
in coming back from personal failures, right, professional failures, and
he was the picture of what what what work ethic
is supposed to be. Like, what's amazing about Kobe Bryant
(03:18):
is he's known for this Mama mentality, and this a
bunch of different ways in which people look at the
MoMA mentality, but he's known for something in terms of
his work ethic that goes counter to the stereotype of
the son of a professional athlete. Right, Normally, the son
of a professional athlete is supposed to be somebody who
(03:40):
acts entitled, and there's there was some entitlement there, there
was some arrogance there, there was a lot of confidence there, obviously.
But I think what's um, what's what's fascinating about it
is like how many sons of NBA players don't work
that hard because they were born with a silver spoon
it in their mouth. Yeah, born at their base and
(04:01):
thought they hit a triple Like that wasn't Kobe Bryant.
He he didn't just want to make the NBA. He
wanted to. He wanted to. He wanted to rip everybody's
heart out, That's what he want to do. And he
wanted to just get better and better and better and
didn't want to be an NBA player. He wanted to
be the best NBA player. So here's my Kobe Bryant story.
(04:24):
When I was at CBS, UM, I was driving home
one night when the Eric Garner story kind of reached
a peak, right, that was the I can't breathe movement.
And so a lot of like what happens I think
with Twitter, with social media is that we tweet from
(04:45):
like our perspective, our time, our moment, thinking everybody else
sees it that way because that's our egocentric way of
using social media to to like display our own kind
of eric against and ecocentric nature. Right, that makes sense. Like,
so I'm driving home through Manhattan and I think I
(05:10):
either had a dinner or I was avoiding traffic. I
can't remember how I got caught on. Like I'm gonna
say eighth Avenue or uh Avenue right, eighth Avenue. Yeah, Um,
but eighth Avenue became shut down because there was a
march marching across Eighth Avenue with the I can't breathe,
(05:32):
you know, I can't breathe movement, and I look, I'm
no one's probe police brutality that I know. Um, I
knew a little bit about the story. I knew that
there was there was a lot to it, right. I
just remember feeling super unsafe, super unsteady, just because I
(05:53):
was a white dude in a I think I was
in a GMC truck at the time, and I'm like
there's people surrounding the car and like banging on the windows,
and I was like, what what, I didn't do it.
I'm just I'm trying to drive home now. I'd also
carry and then this is like a far veal but like,
look my childhood Eli riots and I remember dudes getting
(06:14):
hauled out of trucks and the ship kicked out of them, right,
and I'm like, what what what happened here? So I
mentioned the march and the people pounding on my windows
in my car and kind of feeling super unsafe, and
like I remember calling my wife like I mean, I'm
coming home, but like, I just gotta wait till this
thing dies down before they opened up Eighth Avenue and
(06:37):
she's like, what do you mean open it up? Like
they're having this massive, massive march. She's just going on,
you know, three or four or five thousand people walking
across Eighth Avenue. I don't know they're walking to Times
Square or where they were walking to anyway. Um, So
I got home. I think it was that night or
maybe the next night. And if you remember, the Lakers
(06:57):
were playing I'm gonna say eight. I don't know where
they're playing. Were they playing the Heat and Lebron was
still on the Heat I think, And they all had
I can't breathe shirts on. I remember, I distinct remember
Kobe and Lebron with I can't breathe shirts and I
can't breathe while the idea behind it is to end
(07:21):
police brutality. Right, the guy was selling cigarettes outside a
liquor store, for Christ's sake and he lost his life,
Like it's crazy. So anyone who's reasonable is like, you know,
I don't know what the punishment should have been for
a guy who's repeatedly selling bootlegs cigarettes, but dying is
not even on the list of things. Right. On the
(07:44):
other hand, like when you hear more about the story,
was it was the liquor store owner who's you know,
doing trying to do things the right way and sell
his own cigarettes. And Eric Gardener out front had been
told to move. Who knows how many times he had moved,
Like what do you do? You're a cop, right, You're
much smaller than a guy he doesn't want to move.
He's a gigantic man. He's like a known person personality,
(08:08):
and he's not obeying your orders, Like what do you do?
And I guess you probably just could have pepper sprayed
him and moved him, right, Is that right? That's a
non violent way. I don't believe anybody's ever died from
pepper spray A little you know, so you know, it
looked like a chokehold to me. And then you know,
the reports are that he and he had obviously had
(08:29):
a weight problem, so he had a heart attack. And
then I mean the bigger thing was if you again,
my memory of this is pretty uh, pretty thorough. I
believe the bigger thing was that when the paramedics came, like,
he's just laying there. Nobody performs CPR for however long. Right,
there's a there's a layers. There's a layers to any story.
(08:50):
But I do think that there was a good portion
of people that put on the I can't breathe shirt
and the message was fucked the police. It just was Look,
I grew up listening to n w A. I've had
anybody who's had a run in with a with a
cop who's just a jerk, who's you know, who's feeling
himself a little bit. He's got the badge, he's got
(09:11):
the gun, he's the tough guy. On the other hand,
I'd like to believe we live in a country where
the greatest highest percentage of police officers are really just there,
you know, to keep the peace, to do their job,
to go home safely and collect good benefits. Right, Like,
let's be reasonable so I was. I just I felt like,
especially the class of NBA players, not they're not all
(09:33):
this way, but look, NBA players, many of them are
in fact protected by police, and Kobe was the perfect example.
I had lived when I first moved to California, and
I believe that was during the UH before the I
Can Breathe movement. Right two thousand, two thou fourteen, I
was living in in Orange County, and two thousand twelve
(09:53):
and two thou thirty, I was living in Irvine, right
on the border of Newport Coast, which is where Kobe lived.
I would go to the same Starbucks and Code would
just pull up and not even park like you know,
right out in front, tinted front window like in California.
I I rolled up in my car, I tinted side
windows like passenger side, driver's side. I got pulled over
(10:14):
like three or four times. Finally I had to get
the tent peeled off, tack me off like he had,
like Limo tinted front. Now, I'm not disputing that Kobe
Bryant is a completely different realm of anybody else in
the world in terms of superstar, but like, look, dude,
you're kind of part of the protected class. You live
behind the gate. Nobody would ever mess with Kobe Bryant,
(10:35):
especially and that's why he lived in Newport, Newport Coast
at the time. Was my belief was because he was
part of protected class. So like a protected glass of
people wearing a the police shirt, I felt like was
a contradiction. And so I had some tweet I don't
really remember what is. I'm sure I could Twitter search.
You probably get Twitter search you want, and it was like, hey,
how ironic. Kobe Bryant, who lives you know, you know
(10:58):
it does what he wants, lives behind gate. He's the
one criticizing the police who protect him every day, so
that nothing ever happens to Kovid I tweet it, it
doesn't go over well, you know, Twitter already fucking hates me. Um.
And so now I become like a racist, which I'm not,
(11:18):
and I'm a racist. I'm this, I'm that, I'm a
right winger, I'm pro cop, I'm anti black people, Black
lives matters, all that matters. I became blue lives matter.
I don't even know. I I just kind of figured
it was just a I'm a sports guy who was
a sarcastic, kind of caustic sports tweet. It's when I
specialize in. So Jason Whitlock at the time actually text
(11:42):
me like, what what are you doing? This is not
a place to joke, and I was like, oh, I
take it down. So I just took it down, and
you know, things go viral and they get crazy, and
my bosses at CBS at the time like what are
you doing? And I was like, it's just a tweet.
Doesn't nobody got hurt by it. I didn't choke anybody out.
So I called my friend Rick Buker because Buke, going
(12:02):
back to our days at ESPN, he had a he
had a line to Kobe. When Kobe was first wanted
to be traded, he talked to Buke. Um Buker had
done a great job of establishing a relationship. I used
to mess with him that you could barely see Kobe's
lips moving when Rick Buker talked, but he thought it
was funny, and I knew that was my best way
(12:23):
into Kobe. So I called him and I was like, hey, man,
can you give me Kobe's number? He's like why, I
was like, I put on a tweet and he's like, oh,
I saw it was funny. I go, yeah, I'm not
sure Kobe thinks it's funny. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
apologize in a text. Yeah, He's like, just text him.
He's a text guy. So I texted him. We text back,
and I was like, hey, man, I just want to
tell you I have put out a tweet. Um, I wouldn't.
(12:47):
I didn't. There was a little bit of truth to
it because our kids had gone Our kids had gone
to school together for a year at a school called
Harbor Day, and Giohn was very little at the time,
like in um, say second grade, our girls were all
together in second grade. I have I have twin daughters
exact same age, and so when we knew each other
(13:07):
a little bit. Um anyway, I was like, hey, sorry,
He was like, he text me back, No problem at all.
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So fast forward two years later from that point and
(14:52):
I actually moved back to Orange County. And the reason
we moved back to honestly renting the same house we
rented the time before. Was we wanted because we're moving
so much with our kids, who wanted them to be
in the same school. So my daughters got back into
Harbor Day, my son did not, and just because I
didn't have space, and all was good and I kind
(15:17):
of reconnected with They have a big opening kick picnic
or whatever, and Kobe was there and he had a
The year that we were there before was theory towards
Achilles Tenant and he was always at the school, always, always, always,
and so um it was interesting that like my daughters
who didn't know anything about Kobe Bryant, just knew Kobe
(15:38):
because he was always around, like serving lunches at their school,
like one day a week, and like field trips occasionally
go on. And you know he started running Mamba volleyball
back then for his older daughter. Anyway, Um, so I
said high to him, and you know we explained exchanged
(16:00):
as in trees and Rob Polinka's kids also go to
that exact go to that school as well. And this
is this is going back. This is uh, I don't know,
was it three years ago, Yeah, almost two and a
half years ago. So we started kind of a text
relationship and Gianna asked my daughter Harper to play on
(16:21):
mama's basketball team, and I think they played a pe
and Harper was super intimidated by Gianna in basketball. She's like,
Gianna is the nicest kid ever. And just for the record,
so people understand, there are kids that are sons and
daughters of of rich important people that are jerks there,
(16:42):
little assholes, right, Gianna Brian is not among those people.
She was a sweetheart. Like I had two daughters there,
uh both one was definitely getting a little bullied. Um,
one was kind of getting bullied, and Gianna was the
one who She's the kid who, like you see in
an after school special, like she would step in like
(17:06):
this is again part of my girls. She would step
in and say like no, this is You're not gonna
treat anybody poorly like she's she's a she was a
great kid, great um and apple trees make apples, right,
So it speaks to Vanessa, it speaks to Kobe and
how they raised her. Of course she's my daughter. Harper
(17:26):
would say, like, I'm not playing basketball Gianna because when
you play with her, drink pee, she's like a different person,
Like she flips the switch, kind of like remember um
over the Top, Remember Sylvester Stallone's character and over the top,
like when he turned his hat to the back, he'd
become a different guy. That's how Gianna Bryant was when
she played bass play basketball, So she didn't play the
basketball team. She kind of kicked herself for it. And then,
(17:50):
you know, if you know anything about Mamba early on
when it started, you know, it's just a bunch of
girls from Harbor Day and Newport Beach and it was
just a little club team and they got smashed by
another team. And Kobe was he wasn't embarrassed that they
got smashed. It was that they didn't know how to
play basketball like that. He's like, they're not playing back
like anybody who's watched AU. It's like, you know, if
(18:12):
a team is bad, you can't drow, we can't pass cans.
She just doesn't look right. And he was like, Okay,
we're not playing in a tournaments. We're gonna do six months,
five days a week of just teaching you how to play,
and then we'll play tournaments. And so that's what happened.
That's how Mamba the basketball things started, and obviously, Gianna,
you've practiced that much. He hired Christina Mauser Mauser, who
(18:36):
was the p teacher, to be one of her coaches.
He hired other coaches as well to come in and
work with his his girls, and soon enough they became
the best team in southern California, the same team to
be him by forty. They smashed by forty like the
next time they played. So our friendships started really because
our kids went to the same school, and he was like, hey,
(18:56):
you know Harvard Day Dad, we should get We should
get together with a bunch of Harvard A dudes and
all the parents. They are really pretty cool. And so
first it was like, hey, we gotta range schedules. And
then I actually we took one of my daughters, Grace,
out of the school. She was struggling academically. And then
Harper didn't love like the social scene just because she
didn't play basketball. Gianna, so her friend group was like
(19:20):
one or two other girls, and she's just like, I
want to go to a big public school anyway. So
I was part of me was a little embarrassing, like
does he want to get together with me just because
my kid goes to school with his kid or do
we have a legit relationship? And I actually texted him
and asked him and said, hey, dude, just so you know,
like I think we're pulling my girl out of HARVARDA.
He's like, yeah, we're still good though, right. I was like, yeah,
(19:42):
So anyway, Spring of Noah Spring at two thousand eighteen
or maybe nineteen. I remember, Um, I remember getting a
text from him because we had we had talked a
bunch on text come uh once on the phone, a
couple of times in person in a vents and we're like,
we gotta get it together. A good drinks sends me
a text and we had missed each other in other texts.
(20:07):
In terms of getting together. There's a place called Javier's.
If you listen to Jim Rome Show, Jim kind of
made the thing popular. Um it's uh, it's now become
a chain. It's a high end masking place, good drinks,
and Kobe has his own drink, the Momba there. So
he's like, hey, Javiers like seven thirty, So here's my
(20:29):
I'm not gonna tell you everything that happened, but um,
this is like a night with Kobe, just me and
him so my wife is a little weird out by
it because she's like, why does he want it? Why
does he want to talk to you? Like I don't
know the guys get together and have drinks. She's like,
(20:50):
I don't, I did. Why would he just wanted Like
he has friends, you're not as friends, like we've actually
been kind of friends, like text friends. That's not a
real friend. I was like, all right, fine, So I
assumed I'm gonna show up. There's be a bunch of
some other like Harvarday dads, some other dads I know,
a couple of other dudes that are you know, like
um one of the guys that died Alto Belly Alta
(21:11):
is like everyone knows him. He has been the junior
college baseball coach at oc C Orange Coast College forever.
Like I just figured I walk into a room and
they'll be those kind of guys and we'd all be
bullshitting having to a couple of drinks. So I walk
into Javier's and I was like, I'm gonna go to
the bathroom first. Now he might be asking like why
would you go to the bathroom first? Well, I just thought, like,
if I get engaged in a conversation with Kobe Bryant,
(21:34):
like I don't wanna have to go pee, and like
then you know how guys are, Like you lose your
train of thought, you move on somebody else at the table,
the conversation never starts again. I'm not a clinger, just
the reality of I would have to be at some point.
I remember going pe washing my hands and walking out
and expecting to walk into the back part of Javier
is gonna be a bunch of dudes there, and it's
(21:55):
like Kobe Bryant sitting by himself, almost like it was
a blind date. And uh, we talked for We talked
for hours, and the conversation started talking about basketball and
about how basketball should be taught, and so I said,
(22:15):
you know, he told me a little bit about when
he first started playing in Italy and how he was taught,
and he didn't really know. He knew my dad had
been a you coach locally, but he didn't know like
made my dad coach in college and all the different
ties and um, so we just started talking about teaching kids.
(22:36):
And this is where like he kind of won me
that night, like he had already won me over based
upon his text and the fact he was just he
started to become like an he's still a superstar, and
superstars do things just differently. But there was a real
human being and a pretty good and I was like, man,
this guy's a good dude. Like we started talking about
how to how to coach now, to teach kids and
(22:59):
and here's kind of my story. So when we moved
back to Orange County, I wanted my son to get
in some workouts. And there's a guy named sha Freeze
who uh shay is a works for Bill Duffy. He's
a very good workout coach. You could basketball player in
his own right. I think d three up in uh
Washington and he was running a program called point Break.
(23:19):
So um, my longtime friend Dylan rigg didn who played
a uth c Irvine and at Arizona and then played
in Australia. He has uh two older kids kid named
walk His son Joaquin is like two years older than
my son. He was like, hey, Waukino is this point break?
Bring Hayes to a workout? So I go. And they
were really good, but their teams were ship like. They
(23:40):
literally every tournament they play in they get beat by
thirty forty points because they couldn't pass, and they couldn't
play together. And yeah, they could all eurostep and they
had some advanced moves, but they didn't pivot well. And
you know, after doing this for like two months, three months,
and Hayes played up and played in the couple of
games and he's one's very good at time. Full disclosure.
(24:04):
Uh Shade texted me after a workout and he's like,
what do you think? And I was like, well, say,
when are you gonna do passing? When are you gonna
do pivoting? What are you gonna do? You know, some
of their work on their defensive form and their positioning,
it's like, should we do that? Like, yeah, it's actually
the first they just skip steps. It's like they taught
kids how to run and forgot that you have to
walk first, or even crawl before you walk. So I
(24:27):
kind of took over and started coaching a team. When
we started competing and winning. And then fast forward to
the next year, Say struggled to get a gym, and
so I got a gym and eventually kind of absorbed
the program, turned it into my dad's name sake, which
was Branch West, and now we have workouts. So I
was telling Kobe, like, dude, they don't know how to pivot,
(24:48):
they don't know how to pass, they don't know how
to screen, and here we are teaching how to fucking
euro step, you know, and how to do all this
fancy ship that they see in transition in the NBA
played downhill, Like you can't I play downhill if you
can't break a press, can't play downhill, if you don't
know how to actually set a ball screen. You know,
you can't play downhill if you can't play without the
ball as well as with the ball in terms of
(25:09):
spacing and getting your feet ready, in your hands ready,
and your body ready for the ball when you catch
and you can shoot. And He's like exactly, So he
started telling me his story. We started we're talking ball.
Then he like switches to talking about the Wizarding Series
or whatever it's called. And look, you know, when you
sit with somebody like, oh god, this guy's way smarter
(25:31):
than me. And I like to think that I'm pretty
smart guy. I do like being in rooms where I'm
I'm the dumbest guy in I was the dumber guy
in the conversation because in the midst of talking about basketball,
talking about kids, talking about life, getting to know each other,
and by the way, I just want to fold disclosure.
The first thing I said when we first started talking was, hey,
(25:52):
I don't know if you remember by I sent you
a text about a tweet that I had and go
back in the eye can't breathe. And he looked at me.
Do you remember the remember that Kobe Jalen Rose commercial
where he ordered eighty one olives these Now I'm just
kidding anyway, there was the before that Jalen's like, hey,
I said, I put this thing out on Twitter. Is like, man,
(26:13):
I'll pay attention that ship, right he it was the
exact line. That's exactly what he said to me, is like, seriously,
I don't care, Like I wouldn't have invited to drinks
if I gave a ship about a tweet three years
ago about I can't Breathe don't care like cool. So um.
He switches to talking about his books, podcasts, movies, his
(26:36):
vision for this thing, and I was like, you had
a lot of time to think about this. He's like,
I don't know how, Like I'm a storyteller. This was
when I was in school, Like I couldn't I was
I want to be like an English teacher, write books
or whatever. And one of his I mentioned there's five movies.
That was because at some point in the conversation like
what are your five favorite movies? And there's like Godfather,
(26:59):
there was um uh Steel Magnolia's, which I was like,
really Harry Potter, Um, I'll remember the other two in
a second. I remember Harry Potter. And he's like, I'm
telling you this should be bigger than Harry Potter because
there's so many. He was telling about these different worlds
and different wizards and different age groups it sells to,
(27:22):
and how it could eventually be an amusement park, and
I was like, dude, you've really thought this thing out.
He's like, what do you think I do all day?
I go, I don't know. What do you do? Is
like I get up at four in the morning, I
go work out at Equinox and you know, um, he
takes his older daughter works out with him, and then
he comes back and um, he has breakfast and he helps,
(27:43):
you know, get kids up and ready and go to school,
and then he goes to his office and he works,
you know, and he's got he's a venture capitalist as
well as he's got the books in the podcast, and
then he's also got mamba and he does this other investments.
I was like, dude, this guy's unbelievable. And like I said,
like the more you know how guys can use big
words and they're not really smart and they use them
(28:04):
out of context. So Kobe Bryant, We're having all these
conversations and people come up and everyone who works at
the restaurant is bilingual. Guess who else is bilingual? Kobe Bryant. Right, So,
like it's one thing to order a mamba and say,
you know those mamba's port familiar, but like to have
a full on conversation with guys that work on the
restaurant in Spanish and then turn around and be right
(28:26):
back in the conversation about the Wizarding Series whatever. You're like,
holy shit, this dude's brain is on fire. Meanwhile, I
got like four drinks in me and I'm just sitting
here going I can't believe I'm talking to Kobe Bryant.
And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just
waiting for the and there they go, almost on time.
(28:46):
This morning, Mom is coming off the front door strong
with a double armed kid carry looks like Dad has
the bags daughter he is bringing up the rear. Oh
but the diaper bad wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere.
Oh but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat
buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who
(29:07):
looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself
in the booster seat. Dad zips the bad clothes and
they're off. But looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee
cup is still on the roof of the car and
there it goes. Oh, that's a shame that mud was
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(29:28):
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So we talked about basketball, We started talking about Lebron,
We started talking about Mike. I shared this story on radio.
It's that this is He said this to me several
times about how um the mom mentality is also kind
(30:59):
of a derivation of some of the things he read
about warriors and samurais and Phil Jackson actually taught him.
And he's like, you know, the thing that I learned
from Phil and through all my studies and reading is
like when you're at war, it's full scale psychological warfare, right,
(31:20):
like any of these leaders of countries, even our own,
in order to get all the soldiers to buy in.
It's full scale psychological warfare. He's like, I believe that
in basketball. I was like, all right. He's like, that's
why I could. That's why Mike knows he can't funk
with me, like we you mean, Mike can't funk with you?
(31:40):
Like is Michael Jordan? Dude? And and at this point
one we had established a friendship too. I had some
drinks in me, he had some drinks in him. And
you know, I was like, look, dude, I love you.
I think you're unbelievable. You know, top ten all time player,
but you tried to talk and walk like Michael Jordan
(32:02):
and play like Michael Jordan's like, let's be honest, My
Mike's the goat. He's like, yeah, okay, but he can't
funk with me because I would use full scale psychological warfare.
I said, Kobe, what are you gonna say to Michael
Jordan that hasn't already been said in terms of trash talk?
He's like, you know, his dad loved Larry More. I
was like, what what it's like? You know, Larry. I
(32:24):
was like, yeah, Larry Jordan, his younger brother was only
his older brother was only six ft tall. Mike was
the only guy who sprouted up in his family. It's like, yeah,
He's like it was always a thing that Mike thought
his dad loved Larry Moore and he probably treated him
that way because Larry never grew. He didn't have the
god given gifts that that Mike had. I was like,
(32:47):
so you would say that. He's like, yeah, full skill
psychological warfare. I was like wow. So we started talking
about Lebron and he's like, yeah, Lebron, you know, he
wants to have this mentality, but it's just not in
his makeup. He just he just isn't. He ain't like
us all the time, and he's broke through some of it,
(33:08):
but he hasn't always broken through. He's like and he's like,
I've never had the problem taking the big shot or
missing the big shot. That didn't bother me. He's like,
where Lebron like he he gets the most joy out
of making having somebody else make the shot. He's like, which,
I'm just that is just not how I'm white. We're
wired so differently as people. But he also told me that, like, look,
(33:31):
I told Lebron, and this was Lebron was playing in
the NBA Finals with the with the calves at the
point at that point in time, we're close to playing it.
He's like, dude, I told him he needs to get
in the post more, you know, he needs to roll
down to the post and needs to simplify his game
really work on just playing out the post, passing on
the post, scoring out the posts. He's gotta become a bucket,
get get, get a fade away, go and use his
(33:52):
body like play from the elbow as well. And then
he started talking about other guys in the NBA that
he kind of like secretly works with. And this is
probably the part that you're starting to hear stories about
on social media that Kobe Bryant, who most people half
America thought was an asshole for a long time, and
(34:13):
he probably probably maybe he was, like if you were
seventeen years old and you're a kid and a millionaire
and son of a pro and all of a sudden
you're playing in l A with Shaquille O'Neal, like, you're
probably be a jerk sometimes too, write you'd probably be entitled.
Mike wouldn't you, like the world fell at your feet.
We watched him grow up and evolved, But he also
did a lot of things for people and he wanted
(34:35):
nothing in return. But he wanted no PR like their
stories coming out about going and seeing sick kids and
cancer awards, but he told would tell the parents, you know, like, listen,
this is not about pr this is about your kid.
There's lots of stories like that. The same is true
with the workouts with players and the texts with players
and the calls to players. Like he loved ball. He'd
(34:55):
watch it and then he'd send a guy a text,
Here's something I saw and like, aybody who sees a
text from Kobe Bryant's gonna read it, And like, damn,
Kobe Bryant's watching my game. I would guess there are
fifty guys in the NBA that have texts out saved
on their phone from Kobe Bryant where he's like, dude,
you need to do this more, you need to do that,
or now that they had momb Academy, they start working together.
(35:16):
He just did things like that, which brings me around
to why he was never on the podcast. When Lebron
signed with the Lakers. Kobe came on. I was guest
hosting The Dan Patrick Show, me and Jason Smith, and
I text him like, hey, dude, this is not why
we're friends. Will you come on? It's like absolutely, And
then I just didn't want to ask him the podcast
(35:37):
because that wasn't why we were friends. I didn't want
to use a friendship. Not that people are on the
podcast aren't really friends. They are, but I don't know,
I just felt weird about it. I just felt like
I would be that guy who is only befriending Kobe
Bryant and sending you know, he's sending me videos of
different sets they're running out of Triangle and new things
(35:58):
that he's putting in, you know, because I want him
on my podcast to get downloads, to make more money.
Like I just didn't That's not how I wanted wanted
to be. Um So now I sit here, I don't know,
five days removed from Kobe Bryant's helicopter crashing and him
tragically dying with eight other people, several others who uh,
(36:22):
somebody my family knew really really well. And I'm bummed
because I could have had a great audio record of
just an interesting conversation. I don't know. I'm I've been
really sad with this. And again I'm not gonna lie
to you. I was not best friends with Kobe Bryant.
I never went over to his house. He never came
out to my house, although he was It was at
(36:44):
one point in time there was a text from whom
was like, when we when are we getting the invite
to watch games of your house? And you know, we
bought a house like a year ago or two years ago,
and we've been process of redoing it and the last
thing we want is like Kobe Bryant coming over during
a remote. All right, but it would have been cool.
We've been fine, So there's other stuff. Um. He he
was interesting and that he really understood the psychology of players.
(37:10):
He he likes Shack, and I think Shack understood. I
think at the end of the day, I don't know
Shock actually understands why they the Lakers chose him over Shack. Um,
I think most of the basketball world does. Shack was great,
Chack was dominant. Shack could have been the best player
in the history of the NBA. But Chack likes to
(37:31):
have fun, likes to have a good time, you know,
would work in basket on basketball and basketball season, whereas
Kobe like this, he was a professional basketball player. He
was a licensed killer, and he spent the offseason thinking
about how he's gonna kill people in the regular season,
where Shack would use training camp an early season to
get in shape. That's why he wasn't the league's MVP
off it, even though he was the most dominant player
(37:53):
in the league. And he kind of worked together for
a long long time. Obviously, some of the comments that
they may about each other started to to to break,
started to make a fissure with it within the two. So, um,
maybe I've rambled on this, but I'll tell you this,
Like one, he loved basketball. Kobe Bryant loved understood basketball.
(38:16):
It wasn't the only thing he wanted to do in
this next version of himself, but he really loved the
art of what basketball is. He was kind of a recluse.
He was a bit of a loner. He was a
little awkward. He did to have a tency to befriend
the bottom guy, and the told him pole maybe because
that guy would never kind of challenge his authority. I
(38:38):
don't know. Um, I didn't get a chance to know
him well enough where I could ask him why he
was how he was earlier in his life. I can
also tell you this, when I was young and at ESPN, like,
I had a friend of mine who's an agent and
endeavor say like, you know, guy Leve, I kind of like,
I really like you now. I met you when you're
(38:59):
like twenties ESPN and I didn't like you, like I
feel like I've been the same guys like, nah, you're
much better now. I think the same could be said
for Kobe. Maybe that's what I see in him, Maybe
that's what we all see in him, is he was
a guy who went from being sometimes a punk, sometimes entitled,
(39:20):
sometimes aloof to a dad and the dad of girls,
which I have twin girls that are thirteen years old.
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(40:00):
of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families
and the AD Council. Look to your children's eyes to
see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook
world for them. You look and see a tree. They
see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched
to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see
a windy path that could lead to adventure, and they
(40:23):
see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find
a forest near you and start exploring and discover the
forest dot org brought to you by the United States
Forest Service and the AD Council. Yeah. I'll share with
you more in future podcasts about him. Um, I don't
think the logo of the NBA should change for Kobe Bryant.
(40:47):
And this is not to say it wasn't a great player,
but you know, like if it's not gonna be Jordan's, um,
what Jerry West's logo is perfect? Jerry West is the
only player in the history of the NBA to be
the to the finals and VP and his team not win.
That's how good he was. And he averaged forty points
a game in um you know, I I think it's
(41:09):
knee jerk, but it is. It's he was the generations
Jordan's And one of the things that Lebron has fought
is how Kobe was, how Jordan was, was how I
grew up. The best player was supposed to be and
and here's what I mean. Kobe would guard the other
(41:31):
team's best player, and he wanted the ball and was
willing to take and even miss the game winning shot.
For for the life of me, as long as I've
played basketball, once you start playing pick up, you know,
you get to a pickup game, and anybody's ever played
ball with Magic. Matt Johnson's the greatest Laker ever, unbelievable passer,
but Magic Johnson the end of a pickup game, the
end of an NBA game, you gave the ball to
(41:53):
Magic and he was gonna go make a play, the
bank shot in Boston, the hook shot in Boston. Obviously,
Magic was a great passer, but he was a licensed
killer at the end of games. And Magic was a
bad defender, but he wasn't afraid to guard whoever the
other team's best player was. That's what we were taught
great the greatest of great two. That's what Jordans did.
(42:15):
That's what Bird did. That is frankly what Kobe Bryant did.
And so what Lebron has fought is like Lebron's like, look,
I'll take whatever the best shot is. I love creating
shots for other people. You double team, and that's hard.
And and there have been times when he hasn't guarded
the other team's best player, or he has and he
(42:35):
got lit up by Kevin Durant. But I I think
it's that's part of the mentality of the true basketball
Alpha and why he was so admired by NBA players,
because he was fearless at both ends, even to a
fault when he would take bad shots like Game seven
of the NBA Finals. I can't attest to how he
(42:59):
was every hour of every day or how he treated you,
but I do. I live in a community that I
shared with with Kobe Bryant, and um, he had some
run ins with parents, as anybody who runs an AU
program does. But I do believe that he had the
best intentions at heart of Hey, if you're in, you're in.
(43:22):
If you're not, you're not. I mean wanting. There's a
couple of girls that he he cut from the team
because whether it's injury or other sports, they weren't making practices.
And um, I actually understand it, like I would love
to do that with my program for some of these kids.
I just my program, isn't it. I don't have his
(43:43):
unlimited resources. I don't have you know, ten kids that
I can go the you two, you can't show up,
you're out, you don't play. I would like, you know
a lot of people would like to run their au
program the way that Kobe did. We just don't have
the resources, need the kids. It's you know, can't bid
a dude to kids or that's not And I'm and
I'm a pretty hard flyne guy. UM So I can't
(44:09):
vouch from in every aspect of his life. I can
tell you this. He impressed me as a guy. He
was incredibly bright, he loved basketball, loved loved basketball. Um
and the Mamba mentality was more than I want to
take and make the big shot. To me, the MoMA
(44:30):
mentality was really this quote, uh, which I saw, and
I'm just I continue to kind of marvel in. This
is from Gobe Ryan. I have self doubt. I have insecurity.
I have fear of failure. I have nights when I
show up at the arena and I'm like, my back hurts,
my feet hurt, my knees hurt. I don't have it.
I just want to chill. We all have self doubt.
(44:51):
We don't deny it. You don't deny it, but you
don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. I try and
teach my kids about that as well, with the same
thing with jealousy, Like jealousy is not about not a
terrible thing, and it's you can't deny that you have it.
It's what does jealousy make you do? Does make you
do some mean to somebody else? Or does it make
you work hard so that you can get what they have?
(45:11):
A right? It's okay to be jealous, that's all right.
Does that fuel you as motivation? You know? Does uh
insecurity fuel you or does it make you shut down?
That's the true mama ment That's the true mama mentality,
you know. Because Kobe as a player could be selfish,
could be self aggrandizing could be arrogant and aloof, but
(45:35):
the good parts of Kobe and the parts that came
out more and more, were about work ethic, about finding
a way to use what other people see as negatives
to fuel you to ultimately become a positive. And uh, look,
we have lots of athletes post career success stories like
Lebron will eventually be and there's champions of business. Shakille
(45:58):
is a champion in business, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning
champions in business, and there are more, plenty more where
they use their money and their wealth to buy into
other businesses and they create ridiculous generational wealth if they
didn't already have it. That stuff is amazing. But to me,
what what made Kobe special is it wasn't even It
(46:22):
wasn't about buying Burger Kings or buying Chick fil A's
or whatever. It was about creating a business from nothing,
making it into something and then probably like that is
that ship is hard. And he was just like with
the AU program, just like with the Lakers, he was
an all in guy. He was the word I'd like
to use and I if you ever described me as indefatigable,
(46:45):
which is not fatiguable. That's how you describe Kobe Bryant.
That's how I want to be described. That's how you
describe Kobe Bryant. And again, I can't vouch for him
in all aspects of life. I can only tell you
in my interactions the person that wasn't a Kobe guy,
that not a shot guy. I understood that he had
more value for longer because he got more juice out
(47:06):
of the orange than Shack could ever get. Uh. I
thought it was pretty good dude, a really good dude.
I consider him a friend. I'm super sad for everyone
who lost somebody. My my daughter lost a best friend
on that helicopter. And um, I know Rob Blinkol lost
a best friend. And I know that my friend Miles Simon,
(47:27):
have you heard in this path he lost an absolute
idol in Kobe Bryant, who would become a friend as well. Uh.
And I know there's lots of people who grew up
watching basketball who are just crestfallen that you're not gonna
chance to see Kobe Bryant courtside with Gianna and she
was just gonna be a special player. Um. The only
thing I can do is share the story with I'll
share with you one more thing and then we'll wrap
(47:47):
the pod. I asked him, I just like, what's the
greatest thing you've ever done in basketball? And he goes,
you know, people always said that I didn't make anybody better.
That was the thing. I don't make guys better. And
he's like, how Derek Fisher do? When he left? He
(48:09):
started going through the different guys, you know, and did
lamar Odom ever win? Was lamar Odom focused unless he
played with us? And then they said, you know, Pagasol,
excuse my language of Pagasoon. This is from Kobe Pallasol.
People are in the NBA thought he was a pussy
comes and plays the Lakers. He said. The people said,
(48:29):
you can't win a championship with Palgasol, he's too soft.
You know what, We won two championships with Pagasol. So
he's like, my the greatest thing is it's no different
than Lebron. You want other to see other people succeed.
Look at lamar look at Fish, you know, look at
Para Gasol and the success that they had as part
(48:52):
of our championship runs. It's pretty amazing. It's a really
good point. I'll share with you more thoughts of Kobe
on our next pod. In the mean time, getting the gym.
Getting the gym, overcome your own insecurity and love ball
the way that Kobe love ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This
is all ball. Get right to the romance and find
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tune in. That's one flowers dot com slash tune in. Hey,
(01:08):
welcome in. This is the All Ball Podcast. I'm Doug
gottlie Band. I'm joining you actually from Super Week and
you know, I thought about how to put together a
Kobe podcast. Next week we'll have I've reached out to
a couple of other people, and um, I you know,
we have some really good guests lined up to talk
some more Kobe. But I want to share with you
(01:29):
guys a couple of things because one, I think it's
cathartic too. I kind of got to know him and
and and honestly, he was he actually had asked me
to come on this podcast. And this is a weird
thing in our business. You know, when you make a friend.
And Kobe and I weren't always friendly or friends or whatever.
(01:50):
Like I didn't really know him. Um, it's like we're
like ships passing the night, like Los Angeles. Orange County
is my hometown. Yet he moved into Newport Beach when
I was you know, I was away college and then
playing overseas, and you know, for the first it was
a twelve years out of college. You know, there's two
(02:12):
thousand twelve. I didn't live in southern California. I barely
vacation in southern California. Just my in laws are in Oklahoma.
We were we were East coast or traveling. I would
would come out maybe once a year. But you know,
I didn't though him a native Los Angeleno or native
of Orange County. I didn't, um, you know, he he
(02:35):
kind of dug roots in Orange County that I had
already had and maybe it had been uplifted a little bit.
So anyway, UM, I just here's kind of the my
Kobe Bryant story. As we all kind of collectively grieve,
and I think the grieving is multi layered. You're grieving
the loss of Kobe Bryant. You're grieving, you know, for
(02:57):
many people, a basketball hero. I think what he become
as an iconic figure um in the American sports lexicon
in coming back from personal failures, right, professional failures, and
he was the picture of what what what work ethic
is supposed to be. Like, what's amazing about Kobe Bryant
(03:18):
is he's known for this Mama mentality, and this a
bunch of different ways in which people look at the
MoMA mentality, but he's known for something in terms of
his work ethic that goes counter to the stereotype of
the son of a professional athlete. Right, Normally, the son
of a professional athlete is supposed to be somebody who
(03:40):
acts entitled, and there's there was some entitlement there, there
was some arrogance there, there was a lot of confidence there, obviously.
But I think what's um, what's what's fascinating about it
is like how many sons of NBA players don't work
that hard because they were born with a silver spoon
it in their mouth. Yeah, born at their base and
(04:01):
thought they hit a triple Like that wasn't Kobe Bryant.
He he didn't just want to make the NBA. He
wanted to. He wanted to. He wanted to rip everybody's
heart out, That's what he want to do. And he
wanted to just get better and better and better and
didn't want to be an NBA player. He wanted to
be the best NBA player. So here's my Kobe Bryant story.
(04:24):
When I was at CBS, UM, I was driving home
one night when the Eric Garner story kind of reached
a peak, right, that was the I can't breathe movement.
And so a lot of like what happens I think
with Twitter, with social media is that we tweet from
(04:45):
like our perspective, our time, our moment, thinking everybody else
sees it that way because that's our egocentric way of
using social media to to like display our own kind
of eric against and ecocentric nature. Right, that makes sense. Like,
so I'm driving home through Manhattan and I think I
(05:10):
either had a dinner or I was avoiding traffic. I
can't remember how I got caught on. Like I'm gonna
say eighth Avenue or uh Avenue right, eighth Avenue. Yeah, Um,
but eighth Avenue became shut down because there was a
march marching across Eighth Avenue with the I can't breathe,
(05:32):
you know, I can't breathe movement, and I look, I'm
no one's probe police brutality that I know. Um, I
knew a little bit about the story. I knew that
there was there was a lot to it, right. I
just remember feeling super unsafe, super unsteady, just because I
(05:53):
was a white dude in a I think I was
in a GMC truck at the time, and I'm like
there's people surrounding the car and like banging on the windows,
and I was like, what what, I didn't do it.
I'm just I'm trying to drive home now. I'd also
carry and then this is like a far veal but like,
look my childhood Eli riots and I remember dudes getting
(06:14):
hauled out of trucks and the ship kicked out of them, right,
and I'm like, what what what happened here? So I
mentioned the march and the people pounding on my windows
in my car and kind of feeling super unsafe, and
like I remember calling my wife like I mean, I'm
coming home, but like, I just gotta wait till this
thing dies down before they opened up Eighth Avenue and
(06:37):
she's like, what do you mean open it up? Like
they're having this massive, massive march. She's just going on,
you know, three or four or five thousand people walking
across Eighth Avenue. I don't know they're walking to Times
Square or where they were walking to anyway. Um, So
I got home. I think it was that night or
maybe the next night. And if you remember, the Lakers
(06:57):
were playing I'm gonna say eight. I don't know where
they're playing. Were they playing the Heat and Lebron was
still on the Heat I think, And they all had
I can't breathe shirts on. I remember, I distinct remember
Kobe and Lebron with I can't breathe shirts and I
can't breathe while the idea behind it is to end
(07:21):
police brutality. Right, the guy was selling cigarettes outside a
liquor store, for Christ's sake and he lost his life,
Like it's crazy. So anyone who's reasonable is like, you know,
I don't know what the punishment should have been for
a guy who's repeatedly selling bootlegs cigarettes, but dying is
not even on the list of things. Right. On the
(07:44):
other hand, like when you hear more about the story,
was it was the liquor store owner who's you know,
doing trying to do things the right way and sell
his own cigarettes. And Eric Gardener out front had been
told to move. Who knows how many times he had moved,
Like what do you do? You're a cop, right, You're
much smaller than a guy he doesn't want to move.
He's a gigantic man. He's like a known person personality,
(08:08):
and he's not obeying your orders, Like what do you do?
And I guess you probably just could have pepper sprayed
him and moved him, right, Is that right? That's a
non violent way. I don't believe anybody's ever died from
pepper spray A little you know, so you know, it
looked like a chokehold to me. And then you know,
the reports are that he and he had obviously had
(08:29):
a weight problem, so he had a heart attack. And
then I mean the bigger thing was if you again,
my memory of this is pretty uh, pretty thorough. I
believe the bigger thing was that when the paramedics came, like,
he's just laying there. Nobody performs CPR for however long. Right,
there's a there's a layers. There's a layers to any story.
(08:50):
But I do think that there was a good portion
of people that put on the I can't breathe shirt
and the message was fucked the police. It just was Look,
I grew up listening to n w A. I've had
anybody who's had a run in with a with a
cop who's just a jerk, who's you know, who's feeling
himself a little bit. He's got the badge, he's got
(09:11):
the gun, he's the tough guy. On the other hand,
I'd like to believe we live in a country where
the greatest highest percentage of police officers are really just there,
you know, to keep the peace, to do their job,
to go home safely and collect good benefits. Right, Like,
let's be reasonable so I was. I just I felt like,
especially the class of NBA players, not they're not all
(09:33):
this way, but look, NBA players, many of them are
in fact protected by police, and Kobe was the perfect example.
I had lived when I first moved to California, and
I believe that was during the UH before the I
Can Breathe movement. Right two thousand, two thou fourteen, I
was living in in Orange County, and two thousand twelve
(09:53):
and two thou thirty, I was living in Irvine, right
on the border of Newport Coast, which is where Kobe lived.
I would go to the same Starbucks and Code would
just pull up and not even park like you know,
right out in front, tinted front window like in California.
I I rolled up in my car, I tinted side
windows like passenger side, driver's side. I got pulled over
(10:14):
like three or four times. Finally I had to get
the tent peeled off, tack me off like he had,
like Limo tinted front. Now, I'm not disputing that Kobe
Bryant is a completely different realm of anybody else in
the world in terms of superstar, but like, look, dude,
you're kind of part of the protected class. You live
behind the gate. Nobody would ever mess with Kobe Bryant,
(10:35):
especially and that's why he lived in Newport, Newport Coast
at the time. Was my belief was because he was
part of protected class. So like a protected glass of
people wearing a the police shirt, I felt like was
a contradiction. And so I had some tweet I don't
really remember what is. I'm sure I could Twitter search.
You probably get Twitter search you want, and it was like, hey,
how ironic. Kobe Bryant, who lives you know, you know
(10:58):
it does what he wants, lives behind gate. He's the
one criticizing the police who protect him every day, so
that nothing ever happens to Kovid I tweet it, it
doesn't go over well, you know, Twitter already fucking hates me. Um.
And so now I become like a racist, which I'm not,
(11:18):
and I'm a racist. I'm this, I'm that, I'm a
right winger, I'm pro cop, I'm anti black people, Black
lives matters, all that matters. I became blue lives matter.
I don't even know. I I just kind of figured
it was just a I'm a sports guy who was
a sarcastic, kind of caustic sports tweet. It's when I
specialize in. So Jason Whitlock at the time actually text
(11:42):
me like, what what are you doing? This is not
a place to joke, and I was like, oh, I
take it down. So I just took it down, and
you know, things go viral and they get crazy, and
my bosses at CBS at the time like what are
you doing? And I was like, it's just a tweet.
Doesn't nobody got hurt by it. I didn't choke anybody out.
So I called my friend Rick Buker because Buke, going
(12:02):
back to our days at ESPN, he had a he
had a line to Kobe. When Kobe was first wanted
to be traded, he talked to Buke. Um Buker had
done a great job of establishing a relationship. I used
to mess with him that you could barely see Kobe's
lips moving when Rick Buker talked, but he thought it
was funny, and I knew that was my best way
(12:23):
into Kobe. So I called him and I was like, hey, man,
can you give me Kobe's number? He's like why, I
was like, I put on a tweet and he's like, oh,
I saw it was funny. I go, yeah, I'm not
sure Kobe thinks it's funny. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
apologize in a text. Yeah, He's like, just text him.
He's a text guy. So I texted him. We text back,
and I was like, hey, man, I just want to
tell you I have put out a tweet. Um, I wouldn't.
(12:47):
I didn't. There was a little bit of truth to
it because our kids had gone Our kids had gone
to school together for a year at a school called
Harbor Day, and Giohn was very little at the time,
like in um, say second grade, our girls were all
together in second grade. I have I have twin daughters
exact same age, and so when we knew each other
(13:07):
a little bit. Um anyway, I was like, hey, sorry,
He was like, he text me back, No problem at all.
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So fast forward two years later from that point and
(14:52):
I actually moved back to Orange County. And the reason
we moved back to honestly renting the same house we
rented the time before. Was we wanted because we're moving
so much with our kids, who wanted them to be
in the same school. So my daughters got back into
Harbor Day, my son did not, and just because I
didn't have space, and all was good and I kind
(15:17):
of reconnected with They have a big opening kick picnic
or whatever, and Kobe was there and he had a
The year that we were there before was theory towards
Achilles Tenant and he was always at the school, always, always, always,
and so um it was interesting that like my daughters
who didn't know anything about Kobe Bryant, just knew Kobe
(15:38):
because he was always around, like serving lunches at their school,
like one day a week, and like field trips occasionally
go on. And you know he started running Mamba volleyball
back then for his older daughter. Anyway, Um, so I
said high to him, and you know we explained exchanged
(16:00):
as in trees and Rob Polinka's kids also go to
that exact go to that school as well. And this
is this is going back. This is uh, I don't know,
was it three years ago, Yeah, almost two and a
half years ago. So we started kind of a text
relationship and Gianna asked my daughter Harper to play on
(16:21):
mama's basketball team, and I think they played a pe
and Harper was super intimidated by Gianna in basketball. She's like,
Gianna is the nicest kid ever. And just for the record,
so people understand, there are kids that are sons and
daughters of of rich important people that are jerks there,
(16:42):
little assholes, right, Gianna Brian is not among those people.
She was a sweetheart. Like I had two daughters there,
uh both one was definitely getting a little bullied. Um,
one was kind of getting bullied, and Gianna was the
one who She's the kid who, like you see in
an after school special, like she would step in like
(17:06):
this is again part of my girls. She would step
in and say like no, this is You're not gonna
treat anybody poorly like she's she's a she was a
great kid, great um and apple trees make apples, right,
So it speaks to Vanessa, it speaks to Kobe and
how they raised her. Of course she's my daughter. Harper
(17:26):
would say, like, I'm not playing basketball Gianna because when
you play with her, drink pee, she's like a different person,
Like she flips the switch, kind of like remember um
over the Top, Remember Sylvester Stallone's character and over the top,
like when he turned his hat to the back, he'd
become a different guy. That's how Gianna Bryant was when
she played bass play basketball, So she didn't play the
basketball team. She kind of kicked herself for it. And then,
(17:50):
you know, if you know anything about Mamba early on
when it started, you know, it's just a bunch of
girls from Harbor Day and Newport Beach and it was
just a little club team and they got smashed by
another team. And Kobe was he wasn't embarrassed that they
got smashed. It was that they didn't know how to
play basketball like that. He's like, they're not playing back
like anybody who's watched AU. It's like, you know, if
(18:12):
a team is bad, you can't drow, we can't pass cans.
She just doesn't look right. And he was like, Okay,
we're not playing in a tournaments. We're gonna do six months,
five days a week of just teaching you how to play,
and then we'll play tournaments. And so that's what happened.
That's how Mamba the basketball things started, and obviously, Gianna,
you've practiced that much. He hired Christina Mauser Mauser, who
(18:36):
was the p teacher, to be one of her coaches.
He hired other coaches as well to come in and
work with his his girls, and soon enough they became
the best team in southern California, the same team to
be him by forty. They smashed by forty like the
next time they played. So our friendships started really because
our kids went to the same school, and he was like, hey,
(18:56):
you know Harvard Day Dad, we should get We should
get together with a bunch of Harvard A dudes and
all the parents. They are really pretty cool. And so
first it was like, hey, we gotta range schedules. And
then I actually we took one of my daughters, Grace,
out of the school. She was struggling academically. And then
Harper didn't love like the social scene just because she
didn't play basketball. Gianna, so her friend group was like
(19:20):
one or two other girls, and she's just like, I
want to go to a big public school anyway. So
I was part of me was a little embarrassing, like
does he want to get together with me just because
my kid goes to school with his kid or do
we have a legit relationship? And I actually texted him
and asked him and said, hey, dude, just so you know,
like I think we're pulling my girl out of HARVARDA.
He's like, yeah, we're still good though, right. I was like, yeah,
(19:42):
So anyway, Spring of Noah Spring at two thousand eighteen
or maybe nineteen. I remember, Um, I remember getting a
text from him because we had we had talked a
bunch on text come uh once on the phone, a
couple of times in person in a vents and we're like,
we gotta get it together. A good drinks sends me
a text and we had missed each other in other texts.
(20:07):
In terms of getting together. There's a place called Javier's.
If you listen to Jim Rome Show, Jim kind of
made the thing popular. Um it's uh, it's now become
a chain. It's a high end masking place, good drinks,
and Kobe has his own drink, the Momba there. So
he's like, hey, Javiers like seven thirty, So here's my
(20:29):
I'm not gonna tell you everything that happened, but um,
this is like a night with Kobe, just me and
him so my wife is a little weird out by
it because she's like, why does he want it? Why
does he want to talk to you? Like I don't
know the guys get together and have drinks. She's like,
(20:50):
I don't, I did. Why would he just wanted Like
he has friends, you're not as friends, like we've actually
been kind of friends, like text friends. That's not a
real friend. I was like, all right, fine, So I
assumed I'm gonna show up. There's be a bunch of
some other like Harvarday dads, some other dads I know,
a couple of other dudes that are you know, like
um one of the guys that died Alto Belly Alta
(21:11):
is like everyone knows him. He has been the junior
college baseball coach at oc C Orange Coast College forever.
Like I just figured I walk into a room and
they'll be those kind of guys and we'd all be
bullshitting having to a couple of drinks. So I walk
into Javier's and I was like, I'm gonna go to
the bathroom first. Now he might be asking like why
would you go to the bathroom first? Well, I just thought, like,
if I get engaged in a conversation with Kobe Bryant,
(21:34):
like I don't wanna have to go pee, and like
then you know how guys are, Like you lose your
train of thought, you move on somebody else at the table,
the conversation never starts again. I'm not a clinger, just
the reality of I would have to be at some point.
I remember going pe washing my hands and walking out
and expecting to walk into the back part of Javier
is gonna be a bunch of dudes there, and it's
(21:55):
like Kobe Bryant sitting by himself, almost like it was
a blind date. And uh, we talked for We talked
for hours, and the conversation started talking about basketball and
about how basketball should be taught, and so I said,
(22:15):
you know, he told me a little bit about when
he first started playing in Italy and how he was taught,
and he didn't really know. He knew my dad had
been a you coach locally, but he didn't know like
made my dad coach in college and all the different
ties and um, so we just started talking about teaching kids.
(22:36):
And this is where like he kind of won me
that night, like he had already won me over based
upon his text and the fact he was just he
started to become like an he's still a superstar, and
superstars do things just differently. But there was a real
human being and a pretty good and I was like, man,
this guy's a good dude. Like we started talking about
how to how to coach now, to teach kids and
(22:59):
and here's kind of my story. So when we moved
back to Orange County, I wanted my son to get
in some workouts. And there's a guy named sha Freeze
who uh shay is a works for Bill Duffy. He's
a very good workout coach. You could basketball player in
his own right. I think d three up in uh
Washington and he was running a program called point Break.
(23:19):
So um, my longtime friend Dylan rigg didn who played
a uth c Irvine and at Arizona and then played
in Australia. He has uh two older kids kid named
walk His son Joaquin is like two years older than
my son. He was like, hey, Waukino is this point break?
Bring Hayes to a workout? So I go. And they
were really good, but their teams were ship like. They
(23:40):
literally every tournament they play in they get beat by
thirty forty points because they couldn't pass, and they couldn't
play together. And yeah, they could all eurostep and they
had some advanced moves, but they didn't pivot well. And
you know, after doing this for like two months, three months,
and Hayes played up and played in the couple of
games and he's one's very good at time. Full disclosure.
(24:04):
Uh Shade texted me after a workout and he's like,
what do you think? And I was like, well, say,
when are you gonna do passing? When are you gonna
do pivoting? What are you gonna do? You know, some
of their work on their defensive form and their positioning,
it's like, should we do that? Like, yeah, it's actually
the first they just skip steps. It's like they taught
kids how to run and forgot that you have to
walk first, or even crawl before you walk. So I
(24:27):
kind of took over and started coaching a team. When
we started competing and winning. And then fast forward to
the next year, Say struggled to get a gym, and
so I got a gym and eventually kind of absorbed
the program, turned it into my dad's name sake, which
was Branch West, and now we have workouts. So I
was telling Kobe, like, dude, they don't know how to pivot,
(24:48):
they don't know how to pass, they don't know how
to screen, and here we are teaching how to fucking
euro step, you know, and how to do all this
fancy ship that they see in transition in the NBA
played downhill, Like you can't I play downhill if you
can't break a press, can't play downhill, if you don't
know how to actually set a ball screen. You know,
you can't play downhill if you can't play without the
ball as well as with the ball in terms of
(25:09):
spacing and getting your feet ready, in your hands ready,
and your body ready for the ball when you catch
and you can shoot. And He's like exactly, So he
started telling me his story. We started we're talking ball.
Then he like switches to talking about the Wizarding Series
or whatever it's called. And look, you know, when you
sit with somebody like, oh god, this guy's way smarter
(25:31):
than me. And I like to think that I'm pretty
smart guy. I do like being in rooms where I'm
I'm the dumbest guy in I was the dumber guy
in the conversation because in the midst of talking about basketball,
talking about kids, talking about life, getting to know each other,
and by the way, I just want to fold disclosure.
The first thing I said when we first started talking was, hey,
(25:52):
I don't know if you remember by I sent you
a text about a tweet that I had and go
back in the eye can't breathe. And he looked at me.
Do you remember the remember that Kobe Jalen Rose commercial
where he ordered eighty one olives these Now I'm just
kidding anyway, there was the before that Jalen's like, hey,
I said, I put this thing out on Twitter. Is like, man,
(26:13):
I'll pay attention that ship, right he it was the
exact line. That's exactly what he said to me, is like, seriously,
I don't care, Like I wouldn't have invited to drinks
if I gave a ship about a tweet three years
ago about I can't Breathe don't care like cool. So um.
He switches to talking about his books, podcasts, movies, his
(26:36):
vision for this thing, and I was like, you had
a lot of time to think about this. He's like,
I don't know how, Like I'm a storyteller. This was
when I was in school, Like I couldn't I was
I want to be like an English teacher, write books
or whatever. And one of his I mentioned there's five movies.
That was because at some point in the conversation like
what are your five favorite movies? And there's like Godfather,
(26:59):
there was um uh Steel Magnolia's, which I was like,
really Harry Potter, Um, I'll remember the other two in
a second. I remember Harry Potter. And he's like, I'm
telling you this should be bigger than Harry Potter because
there's so many. He was telling about these different worlds
and different wizards and different age groups it sells to,
(27:22):
and how it could eventually be an amusement park, and
I was like, dude, you've really thought this thing out.
He's like, what do you think I do all day?
I go, I don't know. What do you do? Is
like I get up at four in the morning, I
go work out at Equinox and you know, um, he
takes his older daughter works out with him, and then
he comes back and um, he has breakfast and he helps,
(27:43):
you know, get kids up and ready and go to school,
and then he goes to his office and he works,
you know, and he's got he's a venture capitalist as
well as he's got the books in the podcast, and
then he's also got mamba and he does this other investments.
I was like, dude, this guy's unbelievable. And like I said,
like the more you know how guys can use big
words and they're not really smart and they use them
(28:04):
out of context. So Kobe Bryant, We're having all these
conversations and people come up and everyone who works at
the restaurant is bilingual. Guess who else is bilingual? Kobe Bryant. Right, So,
like it's one thing to order a mamba and say,
you know those mamba's port familiar, but like to have
a full on conversation with guys that work on the
restaurant in Spanish and then turn around and be right
(28:26):
back in the conversation about the Wizarding Series whatever. You're like,
holy shit, this dude's brain is on fire. Meanwhile, I
got like four drinks in me and I'm just sitting
here going I can't believe I'm talking to Kobe Bryant.
And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just
waiting for the and there they go, almost on time.
(28:46):
This morning, Mom is coming off the front door strong
with a double armed kid carry looks like Dad has
the bags daughter he is bringing up the rear. Oh
but the diaper bad wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere.
Oh but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat
buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who
(29:07):
looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself
in the booster seat. Dad zips the bad clothes and
they're off. But looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee
cup is still on the roof of the car and
there it goes. Oh, that's a shame that mud was
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(29:28):
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(29:50):
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(30:12):
the forest trees? Sure no one else grows in the forest.
Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds
grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect
with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is
closer than you think. Find a forest near you and
(30:33):
start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org brought to
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
So we talked about basketball, We started talking about Lebron,
We started talking about Mike. I shared this story on radio.
It's that this is He said this to me several
times about how um the mom mentality is also kind
(30:59):
of a derivation of some of the things he read
about warriors and samurais and Phil Jackson actually taught him.
And he's like, you know, the thing that I learned
from Phil and through all my studies and reading is
like when you're at war, it's full scale psychological warfare, right,
(31:20):
like any of these leaders of countries, even our own,
in order to get all the soldiers to buy in.
It's full scale psychological warfare. He's like, I believe that
in basketball. I was like, all right. He's like, that's
why I could. That's why Mike knows he can't funk
with me, like we you mean, Mike can't funk with you?
(31:40):
Like is Michael Jordan? Dude? And and at this point
one we had established a friendship too. I had some
drinks in me, he had some drinks in him. And
you know, I was like, look, dude, I love you.
I think you're unbelievable. You know, top ten all time player,
but you tried to talk and walk like Michael Jordan
(32:02):
and play like Michael Jordan's like, let's be honest, My
Mike's the goat. He's like, yeah, okay, but he can't
funk with me because I would use full scale psychological warfare.
I said, Kobe, what are you gonna say to Michael
Jordan that hasn't already been said in terms of trash talk?
He's like, you know, his dad loved Larry More. I
was like, what what it's like? You know, Larry. I
(32:24):
was like, yeah, Larry Jordan, his younger brother was only
his older brother was only six ft tall. Mike was
the only guy who sprouted up in his family. It's like, yeah,
He's like it was always a thing that Mike thought
his dad loved Larry Moore and he probably treated him
that way because Larry never grew. He didn't have the
god given gifts that that Mike had. I was like,
(32:47):
so you would say that. He's like, yeah, full skill
psychological warfare. I was like wow. So we started talking
about Lebron and he's like, yeah, Lebron, you know, he
wants to have this mentality, but it's just not in
his makeup. He just he just isn't. He ain't like
us all the time, and he's broke through some of it,
(33:08):
but he hasn't always broken through. He's like and he's like,
I've never had the problem taking the big shot or
missing the big shot. That didn't bother me. He's like,
where Lebron like he he gets the most joy out
of making having somebody else make the shot. He's like, which,
I'm just that is just not how I'm white. We're
wired so differently as people. But he also told me that, like, look,
(33:31):
I told Lebron, and this was Lebron was playing in
the NBA Finals with the with the calves at the
point at that point in time, we're close to playing it.
He's like, dude, I told him he needs to get
in the post more, you know, he needs to roll
down to the post and needs to simplify his game
really work on just playing out the post, passing on
the post, scoring out the posts. He's gotta become a bucket,
get get, get a fade away, go and use his
(33:52):
body like play from the elbow as well. And then
he started talking about other guys in the NBA that
he kind of like secretly works with. And this is
probably the part that you're starting to hear stories about
on social media that Kobe Bryant, who most people half
America thought was an asshole for a long time, and
(34:13):
he probably probably maybe he was, like if you were
seventeen years old and you're a kid and a millionaire
and son of a pro and all of a sudden
you're playing in l A with Shaquille O'Neal, like, you're
probably be a jerk sometimes too, write you'd probably be entitled.
Mike wouldn't you, like the world fell at your feet.
We watched him grow up and evolved, But he also
did a lot of things for people and he wanted
(34:35):
nothing in return. But he wanted no PR like their
stories coming out about going and seeing sick kids and
cancer awards, but he told would tell the parents, you know, like, listen,
this is not about pr this is about your kid.
There's lots of stories like that. The same is true
with the workouts with players and the texts with players
and the calls to players. Like he loved ball. He'd
(34:55):
watch it and then he'd send a guy a text,
Here's something I saw and like, aybody who sees a
text from Kobe Bryant's gonna read it, And like, damn,
Kobe Bryant's watching my game. I would guess there are
fifty guys in the NBA that have texts out saved
on their phone from Kobe Bryant where he's like, dude,
you need to do this more, you need to do that,
or now that they had momb Academy, they start working together.
(35:16):
He just did things like that, which brings me around
to why he was never on the podcast. When Lebron
signed with the Lakers. Kobe came on. I was guest
hosting The Dan Patrick Show, me and Jason Smith, and
I text him like, hey, dude, this is not why
we're friends. Will you come on? It's like absolutely, And
then I just didn't want to ask him the podcast
(35:37):
because that wasn't why we were friends. I didn't want
to use a friendship. Not that people are on the
podcast aren't really friends. They are, but I don't know,
I just felt weird about it. I just felt like
I would be that guy who is only befriending Kobe
Bryant and sending you know, he's sending me videos of
different sets they're running out of Triangle and new things
(35:58):
that he's putting in, you know, because I want him
on my podcast to get downloads, to make more money.
Like I just didn't That's not how I wanted wanted
to be. Um So now I sit here, I don't know,
five days removed from Kobe Bryant's helicopter crashing and him
tragically dying with eight other people, several others who uh,
(36:22):
somebody my family knew really really well. And I'm bummed
because I could have had a great audio record of
just an interesting conversation. I don't know. I'm I've been
really sad with this. And again I'm not gonna lie
to you. I was not best friends with Kobe Bryant.
I never went over to his house. He never came
out to my house, although he was It was at
(36:44):
one point in time there was a text from whom
was like, when we when are we getting the invite
to watch games of your house? And you know, we
bought a house like a year ago or two years ago,
and we've been process of redoing it and the last
thing we want is like Kobe Bryant coming over during
a remote. All right, but it would have been cool.
We've been fine, So there's other stuff. Um. He he
was interesting and that he really understood the psychology of players.
(37:10):
He he likes Shack, and I think Shack understood. I
think at the end of the day, I don't know
Shock actually understands why they the Lakers chose him over Shack. Um,
I think most of the basketball world does. Shack was great,
Chack was dominant. Shack could have been the best player
in the history of the NBA. But Chack likes to
(37:31):
have fun, likes to have a good time, you know,
would work in basket on basketball and basketball season, whereas
Kobe like this, he was a professional basketball player. He
was a licensed killer, and he spent the offseason thinking
about how he's gonna kill people in the regular season,
where Shack would use training camp an early season to
get in shape. That's why he wasn't the league's MVP
off it, even though he was the most dominant player
(37:53):
in the league. And he kind of worked together for
a long long time. Obviously, some of the comments that
they may about each other started to to to break,
started to make a fissure with it within the two. So, um,
maybe I've rambled on this, but I'll tell you this,
Like one, he loved basketball. Kobe Bryant loved understood basketball.
(38:16):
It wasn't the only thing he wanted to do in
this next version of himself, but he really loved the
art of what basketball is. He was kind of a recluse.
He was a bit of a loner. He was a
little awkward. He did to have a tency to befriend
the bottom guy, and the told him pole maybe because
that guy would never kind of challenge his authority. I
(38:38):
don't know. Um, I didn't get a chance to know
him well enough where I could ask him why he
was how he was earlier in his life. I can
also tell you this, when I was young and at ESPN, like,
I had a friend of mine who's an agent and
endeavor say like, you know, guy Leve, I kind of like,
I really like you now. I met you when you're
(38:59):
like twenties ESPN and I didn't like you, like I
feel like I've been the same guys like, nah, you're
much better now. I think the same could be said
for Kobe. Maybe that's what I see in him, Maybe
that's what we all see in him, is he was
a guy who went from being sometimes a punk, sometimes entitled,
(39:20):
sometimes aloof to a dad and the dad of girls,
which I have twin girls that are thirteen years old.
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Forest Service and the AD Council. Yeah. I'll share with
you more in future podcasts about him. Um, I don't
think the logo of the NBA should change for Kobe Bryant.
(40:47):
And this is not to say it wasn't a great player,
but you know, like if it's not gonna be Jordan's, um,
what Jerry West's logo is perfect? Jerry West is the
only player in the history of the NBA to be
the to the finals and VP and his team not win.
That's how good he was. And he averaged forty points
a game in um you know, I I think it's
(41:09):
knee jerk, but it is. It's he was the generations
Jordan's And one of the things that Lebron has fought
is how Kobe was, how Jordan was, was how I
grew up. The best player was supposed to be and
and here's what I mean. Kobe would guard the other
(41:31):
team's best player, and he wanted the ball and was
willing to take and even miss the game winning shot.
For for the life of me, as long as I've
played basketball, once you start playing pick up, you know,
you get to a pickup game, and anybody's ever played
ball with Magic. Matt Johnson's the greatest Laker ever, unbelievable passer,
but Magic Johnson the end of a pickup game, the
end of an NBA game, you gave the ball to
(41:53):
Magic and he was gonna go make a play, the
bank shot in Boston, the hook shot in Boston. Obviously,
Magic was a great passer, but he was a licensed
killer at the end of games. And Magic was a
bad defender, but he wasn't afraid to guard whoever the
other team's best player was. That's what we were taught
great the greatest of great two. That's what Jordans did.
(42:15):
That's what Bird did. That is frankly what Kobe Bryant did.
And so what Lebron has fought is like Lebron's like, look,
I'll take whatever the best shot is. I love creating
shots for other people. You double team, and that's hard.
And and there have been times when he hasn't guarded
the other team's best player, or he has and he
(42:35):
got lit up by Kevin Durant. But I I think
it's that's part of the mentality of the true basketball
Alpha and why he was so admired by NBA players,
because he was fearless at both ends, even to a
fault when he would take bad shots like Game seven
of the NBA Finals. I can't attest to how he
(42:59):
was every hour of every day or how he treated you,
but I do. I live in a community that I
shared with with Kobe Bryant, and um, he had some
run ins with parents, as anybody who runs an AU
program does. But I do believe that he had the
best intentions at heart of Hey, if you're in, you're in.
(43:22):
If you're not, you're not. I mean wanting. There's a
couple of girls that he he cut from the team
because whether it's injury or other sports, they weren't making practices.
And um, I actually understand it, like I would love
to do that with my program for some of these kids.
I just my program, isn't it. I don't have his
(43:43):
unlimited resources. I don't have you know, ten kids that
I can go the you two, you can't show up,
you're out, you don't play. I would like, you know
a lot of people would like to run their au
program the way that Kobe did. We just don't have
the resources, need the kids. It's you know, can't bid
a dude to kids or that's not And I'm and
I'm a pretty hard flyne guy. UM So I can't
(44:09):
vouch from in every aspect of his life. I can
tell you this. He impressed me as a guy. He
was incredibly bright, he loved basketball, loved loved basketball. Um
and the Mamba mentality was more than I want to
take and make the big shot. To me, the MoMA
(44:30):
mentality was really this quote, uh, which I saw, and
I'm just I continue to kind of marvel in. This
is from Gobe Ryan. I have self doubt. I have insecurity.
I have fear of failure. I have nights when I
show up at the arena and I'm like, my back hurts,
my feet hurt, my knees hurt. I don't have it.
I just want to chill. We all have self doubt.
(44:51):
We don't deny it. You don't deny it, but you
don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. I try and
teach my kids about that as well, with the same
thing with jealousy, Like jealousy is not about not a
terrible thing, and it's you can't deny that you have it.
It's what does jealousy make you do? Does make you
do some mean to somebody else? Or does it make
you work hard so that you can get what they have?
(45:11):
A right? It's okay to be jealous, that's all right.
Does that fuel you as motivation? You know? Does uh
insecurity fuel you or does it make you shut down?
That's the true mama ment That's the true mama mentality,
you know. Because Kobe as a player could be selfish,
could be self aggrandizing could be arrogant and aloof, but
(45:35):
the good parts of Kobe and the parts that came
out more and more, were about work ethic, about finding
a way to use what other people see as negatives
to fuel you to ultimately become a positive. And uh, look,
we have lots of athletes post career success stories like
Lebron will eventually be and there's champions of business. Shakille
(45:58):
is a champion in business, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning
champions in business, and there are more, plenty more where
they use their money and their wealth to buy into
other businesses and they create ridiculous generational wealth if they
didn't already have it. That stuff is amazing. But to me,
what what made Kobe special is it wasn't even It
(46:22):
wasn't about buying Burger Kings or buying Chick fil A's
or whatever. It was about creating a business from nothing,
making it into something and then probably like that is
that ship is hard. And he was just like with
the AU program, just like with the Lakers, he was
an all in guy. He was the word I'd like
to use and I if you ever described me as indefatigable,
(46:45):
which is not fatiguable. That's how you describe Kobe Bryant.
That's how I want to be described. That's how you
describe Kobe Bryant. And again, I can't vouch for him
in all aspects of life. I can only tell you
in my interactions the person that wasn't a Kobe guy,
that not a shot guy. I understood that he had
more value for longer because he got more juice out
(47:06):
of the orange than Shack could ever get. Uh. I
thought it was pretty good dude, a really good dude.
I consider him a friend. I'm super sad for everyone
who lost somebody. My my daughter lost a best friend
on that helicopter. And um, I know Rob Blinkol lost
a best friend. And I know that my friend Miles Simon,
(47:27):
have you heard in this path he lost an absolute
idol in Kobe Bryant, who would become a friend as well. Uh.
And I know there's lots of people who grew up
watching basketball who are just crestfallen that you're not gonna
chance to see Kobe Bryant courtside with Gianna and she
was just gonna be a special player. Um. The only
thing I can do is share the story with I'll
share with you one more thing and then we'll wrap
(47:47):
the pod. I asked him, I just like, what's the
greatest thing you've ever done in basketball? And he goes,
you know, people always said that I didn't make anybody better.
That was the thing. I don't make guys better. And
he's like, how Derek Fisher do? When he left? He
(48:09):
started going through the different guys, you know, and did
lamar Odom ever win? Was lamar Odom focused unless he
played with us? And then they said, you know, Pagasol,
excuse my language of Pagasoon. This is from Kobe Pallasol.
People are in the NBA thought he was a pussy
comes and plays the Lakers. He said. The people said,
(48:29):
you can't win a championship with Palgasol, he's too soft.
You know what, We won two championships with Pagasol. So
he's like, my the greatest thing is it's no different
than Lebron. You want other to see other people succeed.
Look at lamar look at Fish, you know, look at
Para Gasol and the success that they had as part
(48:52):
of our championship runs. It's pretty amazing. It's a really
good point. I'll share with you more thoughts of Kobe
on our next pod. In the mean time, getting the gym.
Getting the gym, overcome your own insecurity and love ball
the way that Kobe love ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This
is all ball. Get right to the romance and find
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the way to wow this Valentine's with one hundred flowers
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Host
Doug Gottlieb
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