All Ball - Kyrie Vaxx Mess, Spanish League Guard Johnny Dee on LLWS Experience, Rebuilding U of San Diego, Overseas Good, Bad, Ugly - The Doug Gottlieb Show

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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This is all ball. We got a great pod for you. Um.

(01:47):
Johnny D. I swear that's his name. It's not a
radio name, it's not a pseudo name. It's his name.
Johnny D. Who starred at the University of San Diego.
And here's something interesting. He was actually a recruited walk
on who was given a scholarship. He was playing for
Billy Greer, who if you remember his first season, Johnny's
first season, they were under FBI investigation for point shaving.

(02:12):
What was that like? All part of this podcast. You're
gonna love it. He's also a guy who took a
year off professional basketball because he thought it might be over.
And now he's I think in his third or fourth
year playing in Spain UH in the second division, and
he's made himself a great career. Plus met his wife
during COVID. Find out about how they met and what
it's like adjusting to married life being a professional basketball

(02:34):
player playing overseas. Now he plays for a studientes Man.
This is it's it's a really good pod. You're gonna
love it. Um. The one thing I would get to
is this, this is the hard part in a Kyrie Irving.
He's so talented and he was a guy who brought
Kevin Durant to Brooklyn. He is a guy who I

(02:55):
think a lot of people wonder did he love basketball?
And when coaches say that, when scouts say that, people
get really offended. But there's a reality to it, right,
You're gonna have to love this game because there are
gonna be things you have to do that you don't
want to do. Somebody's get up early to train, have

(03:16):
a limited offseason. You have to watch what you eat.
You can't go out all the time. You've gotta be
a good teammate. You gotta watch film, you gotta get
shots up. You gotta work on your body. You gotta
get to you gotta you gotta a stretch at a
at a very very hard rate. Right. Um, you have
to play within some sort of scheme and system at

(03:37):
both ends of the floor, like these are things you
have to do and right now. To play in the NBA,
you gotta be vaccinated. I don't see there. I don't
see it as any sort of debate or discussion. I
don't care about your political affiliation or what you want
to say. Like we're we've all been inoculated or vaccinated
to go to college, frankly, to play youth sports. We've

(03:58):
all had things that we've done that we don't want
to do. There have been no records of anyone in
the NBA suffering any sort of debilitating uh side effects
from being vaccinated. He is of prime health and so
whether not he needs it or doesn't need it, it's
more about the global community. Again, I'm not going to
argue with you. If if you want to have an

(04:19):
argument or a debate about it, feel free knock yourself out.
You can, you can tweet at me. My point is that, look,
the NBA and most of society has decided Hey, you
want to travel around the country, you want to be
in these arenas, You're gonna have to get vaccinated. Otherwise
we're gonna make life hellish for you. So just get
the shot. The problem with Kyrie is I do believe

(04:42):
that if he was traded to a team, he wouldn't
want to play, He wouldn't show up. So there is
no real acquiescing to him. These are mandates that are
made by cities and by other officials. He simply has
to do it. And I don't even know how you
trade him because he will shut it down. And there's
always been that discussion because if you truly love basketball,

(05:06):
doesn't make it about the money. It makes it about
the team, the teammates, the accomplishments, the games. And Kyrie
just isn't that guy. Kevin rants a guy that's gonna
play basketball. Do you make a lot of money doing it? Yes?
Is he competitive he wants to win, Yes, But at
the end of the day, that guy's a hooper. He
loves basketball, And I think I think Kyrie, I mean,

(05:28):
you don't get that good unless there is a level
of love or like for it. But letting it go
on this far, it just shows guys where your priorities at?
And it feels like he's a guy who makes a
point just to say he can make a point even
if no one really agrees with the point. Like, had

(05:48):
Kyrie not been so anti establishment in well pretty much
everything else in his career, his argument against vaccines might
have more validity. I don't think it does. But that's okay,
Kyrie being kind of the last of the Mohicans, this
big anti vaxer, that's the least surprising thing. Ever, The
question is what are the nets do? Right? They they

(06:10):
not pay him? Did they shun him? I don't know
how you trade him, because he is the type of
guy that would quit on whoever he goes to, just
again to make a point. What a mess that is?
What a mess? All right, let's get you to our
interview in this pod. He was a tremendous player at
the University of San Diego. You'll you'll hear about his
mere curial career that's led him to be in a

(06:32):
really solid pro in Spain. Here's my catch up with
Johnny d um Thanks so much for joining me. Okay,
so where are you at this very moment? I'm in Madrid, Spain. Um,
getting ready to start the season. Okay, so what's uh,
what's the apartment set up? Like that? You know how
to walk me through it into cribs and all for

(06:53):
the basic apartment set up at you Because everybody thinks, oh,
he's a pro, he's playing in Spain. You know, we
different visions for what being it being a professional athlete.
A guy who's been been there for a while. Is
what their their spots like? Like, what's the what's the
apartment set up? I like mine? I have. I can
show you real quick just from here, I got like

(07:14):
a living room, kitchen, and then one bedroom back here,
and then I got this strange staircase here with the
little addict that is another bedroom. So two bedroom is
about as max as you're going to get, at least
in a big city like Madrid. Um, not a ton
of space for my wife and I. She's not here
right now, But um, it depends on the club here right.

(07:35):
I've been in some tough situations where it was a
studio that's the size of just one room, and I've
been in better cities like this one where I actually
really do enjoy the apartment. What does she do her
during the day? Um. Right. Now, she teaches a class
online at at the university she went to, as well
as does some clinic kit does uh, some work as
an occupational therapist online as well. Be cool, she's teaching

(07:58):
a class in America while she's in Madrid, know, and
that weird. They gave her a pretty good setup, so
we're grateful for that. Um, okay, let let's go back
when you're a kid, you're growing up. Um, you were
on you were short stop on the little right. Yeah,
that's right. Okay, so that's twelve years old, sixth grade.

(08:18):
How vivid are your memories of that? Oh? I remember
that I talked about him with my best friend. Not
all the time because that's a little weird, but we
every once in a while bring up kind of the
glory days of playing baseball and just the experience of
being a william sport having I don't know, thirty thou
people watching you we played in the US Championship, having
family members coming out and flying and talking about watching

(08:39):
you on ABC. Um. And to be honest, we still
every once in a while someone will come up to
us or remember just the experience and kind of how
it for us. We went a little smaller city in
San Diego. That was kind of a big deal. So
I definitely have memories that U very near and dear.
So your best friend was on that team, Yeah, a
couple of really good friends. I'm still close to. Who's

(09:00):
that are? Who are there? Daniel give me he's in
the Navy now, and then uh my buddy Danny Vivier.
They were both in my wedding this past summer, so
I stayed in touch and kind of fun to have
those memories. So that's amazing. Um, yeah, where did you
hit in the lineup? I hit um sixth in the
Little World Series, and I think the tournament before I

(09:22):
hit first, or the two terms of four, I was
in first. I got demoted at some point, but it's
funny and basketball more of an offensive player, but in
baseball was a much better defensive player. Well, so you're
you're struggle a little bit with the sticks and then
moved from first. It wasn't I really was. I think
I think I batted like in the three hundreds or
four hundreds in the World Series, but I don't think
I had anything more than a single, So not a

(09:43):
lot of power out of my back in terms of
pressure what's that like at that age to play in
front of that like that is a dramatic jumping pressure
for sure. I don't even know if I like recognized
the pressure though, because from a twelve year olds brain,
you're just playing baseball with your best friends. UM. We
had played together since we were like I want to say,

(10:05):
eight or nine years old. We were like a travelball team,
and then we all made the all Star team in
our little league and we just like we honestly believe
we were going to the World Series. So it just
felt like it was destiny. I remember losing and that
kind of felt like it was a crushing into our
what we thought was like a destined story for championship. Um.
But from a pressure standpoint, it was just like I

(10:27):
felt more pressure playing overseas than I did as a
twelve year old playing for a world championship. Who did
you listen to Hawaii there, I stacked, Yeah, they had
had some kids. Yeahs a version check. I don't like
saying that, but my my grandma actually lived in the

(10:48):
city where those kids were, and so when they beat us,
I was like, you gotta go make surely I'll live
in that city, And she was like they do they
do funny. Um. Okay, So why why part of your
high school did you spend in Kansas City. My dad
took a job with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and
their headquarters in Kansas City. Um. He took like a

(11:10):
kind of more executive position, and so he needed to
be there. Um. And honestly, I was excited for the challenge.
So we moved out there for a year. Didn't work
out for the family. It just wasn't a great fit,
and so my dad didn't basically worked remotely for the
next five years, and we moved back to California. I
got to go spend my senior year back in California.
So but what what's that? What's that? Like? You know,
like everybody likes an adventure until they're in the middle

(11:32):
of the adventure. What do you remember about, Uh, going
to high school in Overland Park and and and spending
some time in that kind of hoop culture. UM. I
loved the hoop culture. I mean I got to go
to a k u K State game on senior night
for Strong Collins, So I mean that that was a
basketball experience I'll never forget. Um. I love the way
that they just valued sports. I met my best friend

(11:53):
who was one of my best friends with my best
man my wedding out there, and I had a coach
man who was who was like a Bobby Night disciple,
but really taught me um, I think, how to buy
in the team, and how to be more than just
an offensive basketball player, and how to score in different
ways as well. So I was grateful for the experience.
I will say I think the whole no shock clock
thing in high school is is stupid and they should

(12:15):
get rid of that, um. But in some ways, I
don't know, maybe to help me improve in other areas.
So I had a good explore in the ball no
no joke we played. I don't know if remember the
named Trevor Elaford, but he played for Bishop the Ag
in R League and he played Alabama, and I remember
when there was a minute left and the clock we
don't want to touch the ball. We would hold the
ball for an entire minute just to to run out

(12:36):
the quarter. And I was like, that is this is
not basketball, Like we shouldn't play scared, like let's let's
be aggressive an attack. But that's just kind of the
way that they play. And you had some low scoring games.
I mean like in the thirties, which is just completely
opposite of kind of West Coast culture. Who was the
Bobby Knight disciple type of coach Donnie Campbell. He was
a fantastic coach, a man that I really respected. UM

(12:58):
coach a lot of really good players well, and actually
found out that the ted Lasso character, Uh, he coached
Jason Sudakas back in the day. So apparently Jason Sudeikis
got a lot of like inspiration from him. So kind
of a small world there. But but Ted last was
like super positive, so I know, I know, and don
Agama was positive, but he would he would also chew

(13:19):
you out if you were in a wrong position on defense.
So but I think it's more of just kind of
a weird one liners because he had a bunch of
those are you a ted Lasso guy? Like you you
ate you guys Jones for the next episode, like, oh,
my wife loves it. My wife loves it. She's a
big soccer soccer gale. So um, we've really enjoyed that show. Um, okay,

(13:39):
so you move back to San Diego and you're hooping. Now.
Part of it is you come from an unbelievable kind
of sports family. Your mom was at that, your dad
was a football player, who grandpa was a basketball player. Right, So, um,
did you give up baseball before high school? You know, like, yeah,
what what was your what was sports like when you
moved back to Diego? Um? Hm, I actually gave it

(14:02):
up right after the World Series. Be honestly, I played
like one more season of pony or whatever. The next
level is exactly exactly right, yeah, like like I'll tell
you parenting. So my son is twelve. Uh, but he
he was kind of fried on baseball, so he didn't

(14:22):
do it in the spring. He wants to go back
to doing it now. He's good. Um, but I would
guess seventy of baseball players because what they do for
pony ball is pony ball. They go and play in
Williams uh and um, where's the Baseball Hall of Fame?
I'm forgetting anyway, Nebraska? Omaha, No, no, no, it's in

(14:44):
um upstate New York. And okay, oh, Cooperstone, Cooperstown. They
go Cooperstown. But like all those kids will be like
I'm done. That's good, right, which is the opposite, Like
the whole idea to keep building but I mean, what
a letdown it must have been. You get them he
played in the leg World Series. Was like, now you're
playing pony ball and some playing pony ball and nobody's watching.

(15:05):
Nobody came, and they're playing like three games a day. Yeah,
it's it's just a long sport, like I mean, because
there's no time so you can get into a game.
It's just a board fest and you're sitting out there
at shortstop or wherever you're playing, and maybe you don't
have a ball hit you all day. And it's like
I needed a little more action. And I love basketball.
My grandfather played. My dad played in the NFL, but

(15:26):
he would tell you his different sports basketball. Um. So
I just wanted to vote everything to it. And I
knew in California was a competitive environment. Um. In terms
of basketbel there's a lot of good players. They're like,
if I'm gonna make it to the Division one level,
I probably have to devote all of my time to
improving there and making that dream of reality. Okay, so

(15:47):
who are you playing with? An au? I played the
game point. Um, it's funny. I actually remember your your
dad had a branched west, right, Yeah, I remember I
remember almost joining them for for a period of time,
but just made most sense for me to stay local
in San Diego with practices and everything. And my AU
coach Charlie was a mentor to me who helped me
a ton um and invested a lot in me. So

(16:09):
I play with a club out of San Diego. Yeah,
I actually started branch BIS back up. So now we
have like eleven support. We're not yet diving in the
high school high school pool just yet. Um okay, so
so uh you're playing and San Diego is going through
this and I think people have forgotten like a legit

(16:30):
point shaping scandal. Billy Greer gets there, they do great,
right he it's this huge contract extension and they're going
through some point shaking scandal. Yeah, and San Diego is
a cool place, but you didn't you were a walk
on there. Did you have scholarship offers elsewhere? I had
one one scholarship offer to Portland State UM, and then

(16:53):
I guess I had to Point Loma, which was an
AI at the time. Viola. I think it's there's a
like didn't want to offer me Um. I was looking
at Honestly, I was looking at Christian schools like a
man ah, I forget what that league used to be called.
It was pretty good, um, but my dream was always
Division one. So um yeah. So so what's the conversation

(17:16):
like with your parents about paying full tuition? Um. The
conversation was it was a weird process, having moved to
Kansas and back and so just trying to figure out
where I was supposed to go and hoping that someone
would come in with a late offer, which Portland State did.
I took my visit and I hated it. And I

(17:36):
told my parents that I didn't like, hate it, hate it.
But I just was like, this doesn't Yeah, it was
I feel like it was school, right, school reason why
I didn't like it. I just felt like if I
went there, it wouldn't be the college experience I was
kind of hoping for. And I don't know if you
know right, And they didn't have the gym yet. They

(17:57):
played in like a high school gym, and I was
just like, and this looks brutal. Um. And I don't
know if you know who Mike Burns is. He's not
coaching it at boise Um. He is. He is an
incredible recruiter. And I just developed a really strong relationship
with him, and he believed in me, probably more than
I maybe even believe in myself. And he told me,
he's like, you're gonna come here, and you're gonna start
for us, and you're gonna average twelve points a game. Said,

(18:20):
first of all, I got to get like an offer
from the head coach and and all that before we
can start talking about all that. And he's like, look,
I'm just telling you're gonna come here and you're gonna play,
and I have a great career. And so I remember
taking my visit as an unofficial or whatever because what
they may scholarship offers, you know, just with my dad,
and I was like, this is what I'm supposed to be.
I just felt like a spiritual mudge of like you're

(18:42):
gonna go here. Um. And so I told my parents
that and they respected that decision. They know I've been
praying and hoping and working really hard, um for some
type of opportunity, and so they say, like, supported that decision,
and ironically, um, I didn't end up having to pay
because or it didn't and I'm having to walk on because,
like I would say, two months after I committed as

(19:04):
a walk on one of the guys didn't show up
the summer school. I think, I don't want to come back,
so they just gave me that that kids scholarship right away.
So you get there, Billy is your coach team bottomed
out there before rights or something like that. What was
it like? Was it was that first year. Like the
first year was weird, just because we had all the

(19:25):
FBI meetings and all that stuff with you know we
do with some of the wire taps with Brandon Johnson
talking about so don't turning the ball over against l
m U and only like it was just so interesting
for me just being in this kind of like weird
situation where you're kind of learning a dark side of
sports and gambling and all that. UM. But I met

(19:46):
some really great incoming freshman Chris Anderson, Orange County guy,
um Nick Kerr was my roommate, and and we just
kind of went in there. We went to work and
tried to change the culture as best as possible. UM
And thankfully because of the I guess bad record and
what was going on before then, they had some opportunities

(20:07):
for young guys coming and play, and I feel like
Chris and I took advantage of that, Fox Sports Radio
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What okay, So so they're going through this wire attempt
so that that was their deal. They would just turn
the ball over it in opportunity times points. It was
one guy. It was one guy, and it's wild because
he was making like I think one grand or two
grand game off of like this stuff. And I think
the guys that like that he was working for were

(23:43):
like making close like eighty or a hundred a game.
So it's just like I kind of felt like, I
don't forge out for the guy, but it's just like, man,
if you're doing you change your whole life. That's up
your whole life for a grant. I mean, it was
just wild stuff and to see that kind of how
it got taken advantage. But also he made the same mistakes.
He made mistakes. But yeah, it was just really an
interesting environment to walk into because like coach career, I think,

(24:06):
but what six months before I got there, had woken
up to FBI agents at his door, like you know,
explaining in the situation and then questioning him like if
he had any involvement or anything like that. So it
was kind of a weird thing to walk into. What
was Billy like to play for I like playing for him.
I mean he he gave me an opportunity from day one. Um. Um,

(24:28):
I thought his strength as a coach was was defense.
I mean I've told him as I wish we played
a little fashion on offense because I thought we had
the fastest point guard in the league for four years.
But I thought defensive schemes and things like that he
was fantastic with as well as you know, he gave
me an opportunity. And so that's a guy that I'll
always support, um and you know, be grateful for you.

(24:49):
You mentioned Nick Nick kerr Uh, what was that like? What?
What was what was he like to be around? Awesome?
I mean he was. He's the guy actually kind of
baffle because he worked so hard and he was an
incredible shooter. We played the same position, and I guess
I was a little better off the ball scoring off
the ball. He was probably a better shooter than I was. Um.
But coach had a hard time putting us both in

(25:11):
the game together because we both weren't, you know, strong
defensive players. UM. And I think we could have made
it work, Um, But he wasn't a guy who got
a lot of opportunity because I think in some ways
I took some of that from him, but not one
of my closest friends. And um, dude was an incredible shooter. So,
so what is basketball life at the university? C Some

(25:31):
people who don't know the school is up on a
hill kind of overlooks Mission Bay, which is beautiful Mission
Bays where kind of all the bars and the hangout
stuff are. But it's private Christian school. Um, so, like,
what is what is life like in terms of where
you live, how you hang um? You know, obviously things

(25:52):
changed for the better when they built a slim gym,
but it still wasn't didn't feel like it was a
happening people showing up at the games, So what was
what was that a college experience? Like, it's tough from
a basketball and sports standpoint. It doesn't have a lot
of what's the word school spirit? I guess you could say,
like I'm doing a lot of a lot of love
for that. So and we have a fantastic volleyball team.

(26:15):
So I mean, every once in a while, I love
a game against the top team where the gym's popping,
and when Gonzaga plays at home, when we play Gonzaga
or St. Mary's or Senego State, Like, that's always a
fun game, um, but not a ton of support. Obviously
some some alumni and whatnot, but you just don't get
a lot of the I guess city support. I'm thankful that,

(26:36):
you know, I grew up in a city, so like
my parents came to every single home game. Family members,
friends of family, high school friends that were in winter
break and all that would come to games. So I
felt like for me, I had multiple people I wanted
to be at the game, at the game, but from
a student standpoint, not a lot, not a lot happening.
I think people know you're on the basketball team, but

(26:57):
and some people respect that. But a lot of people
are there because San Diego is an amazing city. You're right,
most of the kids actually lived in peb or Mission
Beach on these beach houses and then the bar scene
over there's where they spend a lot of time. So, UM,
you can't really blame them for not wanting to come
back to campus off hours, but you kind of wish
they did. Because Santego State figured it out. Um, But

(27:18):
they also had a lot more success, a lot more success.
They built the dorms right next to the arena. Yeah,
more in the and and they're more inland. And also
I mean like, look, if you would have gone back
when I was coming out, like Sanity State was literally
the worst it was, it would have been the safetiest
of safety schools, not in terms of getting in but

(27:40):
in terms of the sport. Like it's it's a crazy
turnaround there. And they used to play both San Diego
Santi State used to play and glorified high school gyms, right,
you guys had the one with the stage. Um. Yeah,
And and but Sanity State Sports Center was before they
didn't play in the sport tun they played on campus
and it was a dump an occasionally they played in

(28:01):
the sports arena and then they built the arena, but
you know, even the early days the arena was empty.
And then they started taking transfers and got better. But
it really is an amazing kind of turnaround of a program.
But they also didn't have a good zag in their
league where you're like, Okay, who's playing for a second,
you know, and then by you and Mary's like who's
playing for fourth? Um, So your gained during this time?

(28:26):
How much did you feel like you improved because you
got you got to play right away, you could play
a ton, and you guys didn't win a ton, right right,
you know it's hard to win a ton. But how
much did you feel like you were improving? I felt
like each year I got a little bit better. Um.
I think if I could go back and do one thing,
I wish I would have learned have been more of

(28:47):
a point our type of a player in that college
atmosphere in terms of making place for others. Ever since
I was in high school, my role on the team
has been to score and score for myself, and so
that is something that over here I've had to kind
of change because I'm expoot, not that athletic guard. So
if I'm gonna want to be on the floor, I
gotta be more than just scoring. Because you're not making shots.
You gotta figure out a way to be impactful. Um.

(29:10):
But I would say in my four years, because I
got to play, I got to improve in a lot
of different ways in terms of how I score. I
think my first year I literally was cash and shoot
and that's about it. Um. I added a floater, I
added kind of scoring out to pick and roll. My
junior and senior year, UM and being able to kind
of make plays in transition and things like that. So UM,
I totally think being able to play helps helps that development.

(29:32):
He had them playing and what was the conversation with
Billy liked, what was the conversation with parents? Like? As
far as who you want to have represented, uh, Coach
Career had some some guys that he trusted and he
gave me. I think it was just a list of
two people, UM, and they were great, actually almost it
was really close. I was down my final two is
one of the guys Coach Career had and one of

(29:54):
my teammates due to UM. He was like was brought
over from the Republic of Georgia by this I who
was also really close to Jordan Lawley. Do you know
j law Jordan the trainer. So Jordan was represented by
this guy Um Daniel UM. And I was working out
with Jordan at the time and I just felt like
it was a really good connection and I just went

(30:15):
with him. So UM, that was also a very interesting
process of trying to figure out who to who to
represent me. So your first summer, I know you played
what in Croatia is your first your first gig your
first summer, Like, what do you remember about it? I mean,
because I tell you, like I remember thinking you're gonna
be like, they'll have all these offers and it's it's

(30:38):
it's a deer process, you know, where there might be
an offer account from the club. It might be you
know this a month or that a month. What was
it like? Was that summer like weird? I think I
talked to probably ten different agents, and you probably heard
seven different things from the ten different agents, And so

(30:58):
I tried to go with some of the guys that said,
you know, something similar to somebody else, because they're all
trying to sell you and telling you how much you
would make out the year one, that you've been making
six figures because you were All League for three years
or whatever it may be. UM, And that might have
been true years ago when there was a ton of
money in Europe. UM. But my first summer was very difficult.
I played Summer League with Warriors, not much run um,

(31:22):
but got to learn a lot of but like just
watching Aaron Craft and Jan Randall were two really good
guards on that team. UM. And then not signing until
late because I just I don't know, I think European
teams have a hard time signing a two guard that's
six ft and not that athletic, so which is understandable. Like,
I recognize you're taking a risk, but thankfully somebody did

(31:44):
and I played really well for a month and ended
up basically finishing out the final seven months of my
first year in Poland in their first division, which is
a much better experience. And you're you're you're skipping, I'm
taking you there. You know, I only spent a month
in Bosnia. I know. So so okay, so you go
to you go to Bosnia? What what time of years?

(32:06):
This September? So did you you got some training camp?
You got some friendly as well? No I came, I
think I got Yeah, I got like one friendly game
and then it was season started and I played five
games in one month. U. Well, who's the other American?

(32:26):
They didn't have another American. I was on an island
until like I think they brought him in my second
to last game there, and I was by then I
was like, look, I told my agent, you gotta get
me out of here. I'm not lasting a full year here.
So so why so again, like paint the picture for me,
Like you land in Bosnia. What do you remember. I
remember we actually landed in Croatia because I don't have

(32:47):
an airport, so at least not one you can land into.
Because we were too far from saraebo Um. I had
a two hour cab ride to the city. I was
going to be in Bosnia and I've landed at like
twelve and they wanted me to practice at six o'clock
and my bags didn't make it, and I was like,
can I get the night off or something. I just
flew across the world, like you see. It's like he

(33:08):
just wants to see that you. You know you you're
able to run, and you're willing to fight with this cloud.
I said, all right, I'm not going to have a
bad first impression. So I think they got me like
one of my teammates shoes. I just put those on,
and I had no clothes with me because both my
bags were gone, so they had to give me some
stuff for that. And I just remember having to practice
and he like let me finish early. But I remember

(33:29):
running a ton like that. That coach, like Eastern European coaches,
their whole style is who run in practice all day long.
I think that's partly why I was like ready to
get out of there quick. It's funny. I remember I
landed in perm Russia, and well, first we went through

(33:51):
um we went through. I went through Moscow and like
the process then. I don't know if it's different now
was I was in. I was playing for a team
in Salina, Kansas, and I had to drive to Oklahoma.
Had dropped my wife off and at her folks place,
gather up all my we gather bar our crap and

(34:13):
I fly to New York City. But I got all
this crap, like I got like two big bags stuff.
But I gotta stop in the consulate to Govisa. So
like you land, you spend the whole day. You know,
you're kind of like walking around New York City whatever,
checked your bags through and I go back to the airport.
Then you fly overnight land in Moscow. It's nighttime. You
come out and look at all wrecked. There's a guy

(34:35):
with a sign that's written in Russian but it has
a basketbay, Like, I guess that's I think. So he
picks me up. He get in the car. Of course
he's smoking, and you're like, oh god, the worst. But
the windows up um cold, outside because I didn't get
there until January. Because I did the whole I was
c b A and I got kind as ib A.

(34:58):
It's crazy, um, but I remember like waking up and
seeing red square alright square, passing back down and then
going to some meal where the guy ordered me food.
It was terrible, but like I'm like, okay, I didn't
know anything. But anyway, so that then you fly overnight again,

(35:20):
like I don't know what day it is. I don't
I don't know anything, right, Like, consider you have two
overnight flights in a rupt. That's why I landed at
night in Moscow. The guy takes me to some other airport.
We stopped to eat along the way, and then we go.
We got to fly at PERM which is like a
couple of our flight, but you're the time zones are changing,
so your land it's like five three in the morning,

(35:41):
so you're like, I don't even know what day it is.
They pick you up again that they had a translator
but she was broken English. Put your bag and you
get in like a van that has the same basketball log.
You're like, okay, kind of makes sense. And then they're like,
we pick you up for practice at ten o'clock. We're like, dude,
it's like six of them more. Yeah, and then you
get there. And when I got there, the team wasn't there.

(36:04):
I was like, what the fuck. They're like, oh, they
play night in you get thery and burgh. I'm like, okay,
so I got the day out. No, you must have practice.
So so this couch, the assistant coach to Lithuania, and
he was hardcore, hardcore, you make you make ten three

(36:26):
And I'm like a shot at three and I'm like
watching the ball bouncing, like just me and him in
this gym. I'm like, yeah, can you you know up?
He's like no, he like looks at his watch. It's like,
you make ten three points. So I did an hour
in the gym of different drills and basically and they're

(36:48):
actually really good in terms of ways to pick up
your intensity. But like you're going to half court, shoot
at three, go get it, shoot to three, go get it,
shoot to three, you make ten, see how long it
takes you, and then get some water. Do it again,
try and get a better time. And then you're doing
full court kind of same thing, like transition jump shots
are coming off a ball screen or whatever. Like all
these things. But there's another guy in the gym, but

(37:10):
he's actually never touching the basketball. He's just recording how
many times, not even writing it down, like how man
you make? And with you know, his watch, that's it.
So yeah, I totally get coming from the college. The
college environment is way different. You've got people of rebound
it for you all the time. Yeah. The only place
it wasn't like that. My first year I played Notre

(37:30):
Dame for John McCleod and he had a rule that
if you were shooting in his gym, you had to
have somebody keeping stats. So when you watched into practice,
and this is before the days of the shot tracktor stuff,
right when you walked into practice, you had your shot
chart up so everybody could see how many you took,

(37:54):
how many made from the from the practice many work out,
anything you did, it would be up there and it
would show you that way you knew like this was
my shot, this is where I shoot well, or this
is who's been working. But like I remember, I would
be out there shooting working with a manager and he
they would come and yell at the managers like no,
you you either need two managers or you need to
feed yourself and that guy the manager keeps stats like

(38:15):
that was that important. So yes, it's a different it's
a different deal. Okay, so you're in um, you're in
this foreign country and you had one friendly game and
now you play. Do you remember who your first game
was against? The professional? Yeah, it was a road game.

(38:36):
I don't remember the team name, but I remember just
being like, all right, let's go, Like was it were
there in the gym, in the arena? How big was
the arena? No, it was a tiny arena. Playing in Bosnia.
I don't think many of those clubs had like big arenas. Um.
I know they did back back in the day, like
a couple of clubs, but I remember being a tiny gym.

(38:58):
I remember walking in and like there was a pin
pong tournament going on like on the first floor. I
was just like, okay, this is like a multipurpose facility.
All good and um. I remember, like, to be honest,
I felt like I was the best player in that
team by far, but he had this weird like I'm
not going to give you minutes or the starting position

(39:19):
until you earn it, and so I remember like trying
to battle that kind of mental um. Grind if you will.
The first few games, okay, so you you you made
five games and you're like come out and yeah, what
was what was the final exit? Like terrible? They were mad.

(39:39):
So they signed me to a one month deal and
they said we will renew it or we can renew
it or renegotiate after a month, depending on how it goes.
So to me, that was like, all right, you guys
don't actually think I'm good enough to be here for
a full year because I'm a rookie, so you're not
willing to commit, So fine, I'll come out there for
a month, hopefully play well and get out of here,

(40:00):
which is exactly what happened. Um. So I remember tom
My agent that you gotta find me another job because
I did start playing really well and I was getting
like seventeen minutes a game and we were winning. Um,
and he found me a job in Poland's I remember
telling the coach and he was not happy. The GM

(40:20):
was not happy so much so that they didn't pay
me my first month's salary and refused to like give
me a cab to the airport. So I had to play.
Never got any money. Not in Bosnia. He played for
free play for free um, and then I had to
pay for my own taxi which was like two hundred

(40:40):
bucks to get two hours away to Croatia. This so
I can get to Poland? What team in Poland pulled format?
Which I don't even know if they called any where,
they might change their name because you know, sponsors change everything.
So um, now you're like, I just played for a
month and I didn't make any money. M hm, the
weirdest ship ever? Ever? Where did you fly to in Poland?

(41:04):
Goods pretty pretty great city. I did have a good
time because there's three cities over there. It's close to
the beach. So pulling a good diance would then realized
I wasn't in good Diyans guy was an hour south
of that in a city of like twenty thou people.
What was it called starle guard or something that startleguard,
good dean sut something Um, okay, so what was that experience?

(41:26):
Like say you you you have some pro experience now
still a rookie? Was what was that that team? Like
in that experience? Like it was interesting because I came
in they just fired a guy because they were going four. Um,
they needed some scoring coach and speaking look at English.
He was kind of like your Russian guy where he'd

(41:46):
come in the gym and it wasn't a lot of coaching.
He just kind of sit on the sideline, what have
his assistant tell us what to do? And he'd watched
Ye occasionally who loved playing three on three full court.
UM had some Americans on that team, which was nice,
but the age gap was pretty big, like one was
thirty seven, one was thirty six. Um. Then a guy

(42:08):
named Mike Kicks, who actually is now a Polish citizen
because he's been out there so long, and a guy
named Damien Kenlock. It was just some D two guy
who made a career overseas for twenty years. Fifteen years
old heads, old heads? What was the what was the
living setup like there? In poor They basically put me
in the apartment that the guy before had and it

(42:30):
was a studio and it wasn't a bed, It was
like a fouton so it was a couch bed. Um
had a TV, didn't have an oven, had a microwave,
had the worst shower I'd ever had a shower in
water was barely warm. Um. But I don't know, I
guess just make the most of it, and I had

(42:52):
a couple of visitors that year that helped me get
through it. But it was it was not like an
enjoyable experience or like, you know, the beautiful European experience
that I think a lot of people think you had
when you come over here. So, um, you, uh, what
did you Where did you go eat? Like obviously you
got a microwave and just microwaving stuff? Did you have?

(43:17):
H I didn't cook then, Like I was not a
cook at all, so I wouldn't. I didn't even know
what I was doing. Um, so I would eat out
a bunch. They had some like cool little Italian spots,
um Polish people who love like soups and potatoes and chicken,
So I'd find somethings like that. And I will say this,
if there's a really nice part about pulling is like
everything is so cheap because they don't they're not on

(43:38):
the euro, they're on the lote. And it was like
one dollar four his lote. So I was eating meals
for like three bucks, So that was kind of nice. Um,
how did you do that? Here? I did all right? Um.
I think I was in that kind of transition trying
to figure out you know you're playing for money, Like
you're not playing for money, but you're getting paid now,

(43:58):
so there's an added pressure. Sure, Um, there's a responsibility
there that the club like expects out of you. And
on that team was you started knowing force. Now the
only goal is not to go down to be relegated
into the second division. UM And Poland has this weird
rule where you have to have two Polish players on
the floor at all times. So some games, like depending

(44:19):
on the matchups are depending on foul trouble, Like I
would get less minutes because we needed one of like
if our Polish big was in trouble, then the American
big had to be on the floor and that would
essentially take me off the floor. UM in certain situations.
And there aren't a lot of great Polish players, especially
the lower you get down into that league, because a
good one signed either outside of Poland or on the

(44:41):
top Polish teams. UM, So that was an interesting component.
I would say my agent and I like the way
we tried to negotiate the following year was that I
had sixteen to eighteen good games and then eight not
so good games, and it was kind of that up
and down trying to figure out a rhythm and how
to play in a professional system and all that. Hey,

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(46:56):
dot com requires high speed Internet and compatible device. Content
varies by pack. It's in location restrictions apply. It's It's
the having a guy on the floor. When I was
in Israel, there wasn't a rule, but there was like
an unwritten uble, like there's another point guard. He was Israeli.
Nobody else was really Israeli. Like there's somebody who's gonna play,

(47:17):
it's gonna be him. And I remember people tell me that, like, oh,
guy contours in your team, Oh he's gonna play. I'm like, yeah,
but I'm better than that. The don gonna play. And
we would come into the locker room at halftime and
the conversation was always an English and suddenly it was
in Hebrew and there was yelling and screaming, and then
I didn't know it, like we don't know what's going on.

(47:39):
You know, he come out of the second half and
suddenly I was played as much like, okay, the guy.
I know what was being discussed. There was gonna play.
Yeah this guy, this guy is gonna get some guys
to get some run. Okay, So what next? Where's the
next stop? So I told my agents. They offered me
the same contracts to come back another year. That's my agent. Look,

(47:59):
I'll come back because I want to keep playing, like
I still love basketball, but only if it's my only option,
Like if you can get anything else, I'd really go
anywhere else. I'll get you something, don't worry about that.
So we told them now and I didn't get a deal.
So I basically took an entire year off, worked out

(48:20):
every day every morning, living my parents. I was back
home for the summer and I was basically just waiting
for a job and it just never came. So I
ended up, like you know, working as a substitute teacher.
UM was doing door dash, was training kids on the side.

(48:42):
Was um just coming to all types of stuff to
just you know, little train with Jordan. What were you
doing yourself? Going a little bit, I would say the
second year, I started to just train it by myself
at USD or at l A Fitness because he's out
of Irvine. I'm in, I'm go in Vista, San Diego,
so it was a little like fifteen minute drive. So
and I don't mind. Just I've never had a big

(49:05):
problem rebounding for myself, so I just kind of go
do my own thing and another fitness and get to
work in the morning. Well, you make them more, so
you don't have to change, you make it more. Just
always come to the net and it's got back to
back to you, so it's not really a problem. But
my problem was I missed him too much. There's a
lot more running. Okay. So you're sitting there and you're

(49:27):
like no, no no, Like you meet people like what do
you do, like professional vessel player, Like what do you
play for? Like I don't think he's not playing exactly.
It's a weird existence. Okay, So when was the next
phone call that you got? Another shot? I was getting
phone call. This was what was touch on. Was I
was getting phone calls. My agent was getting phone calls
throughout the year. Like it might have been four different

(49:47):
times where he told me like, all right, start packing
a bag because you might be leaving tomorrow, or hey,
I'm really close to this team and between you another guy,
and it seemed like every time it was the other guy.
Now looking back on it, he might have been just
been feeding me, know, good information at the time to
keep me, you know, somewhat happy, But it felt like
there were some really close calls. In fact, one time

(50:08):
I drove all the way out to Vegas to work
out for a New Zealand coach. Um. He played point
guard at un l V. So that's why we got
to you. Yes, Stickle, who's been on the pod. This
dude put me through a workout and it wrecked me.
I mean it was this dude's workout was brutal, and

(50:29):
I have to like, I hadn't played an actual game
in six months, so it was like in January, I
drove out to Vegas. I thought I was working on
the morning. I couldn't get ahold of him. And then
he finally called me back because he he coached a
team in New Zealand. I was just looking for opportunity.
Got us a gym at like eight o'clock a night
at un l V and he just ran me to death,
like full court shooting the whole time. One hour. And

(50:50):
at the end he's like, look, my team runs, so
we're gonna put you to a conditioning drill. And he
fetent through a conditioning drill and I don't think I
finished the last set because I was so tired. Because
there's basketball shape and then there's like you know, or
there's there's workout shape, and then there's real basketball shape.
And I wasn't in a real basketball shape. So that
was discouraging um, and that's when I started thinking, man,

(51:12):
maybe I'm done, Like, I don't know. If I'm we'll
be playing. So that's when I started looking into other options.
When I was on a golf course in August of
the following year and my agents like, look, I got
a job for you in Spain. It's not a lot
of money, but it's second division, it's respected league. They
need a guard who can score, and um, if you

(51:34):
want it to to yours. I remember just being like, man,
I don't know, like the money, h PGA West Actually Springs,
Who are you with? I was with a group that
they played a Ryder Cup like they do this every year.
They go to Palm Springs and they played three rounds
and it's America versus Europe and they two teams and

(51:58):
it's it was a blast. Who the guy? Give me
the guys? Uh, there's a there's a private school out
of out of Sano called Santa Christian and most of
the guys are from that school, like they either went
there or like there was two basketball coaches, a football
coach from there, um, and a bunch of people that
were like alumni from there. So it was just a
group of guys. So you hang up and did you

(52:20):
ask anybody what they thought would you like exactly. There's
the head coach Sanfa Christian's name is Chad Bickley. Great dude.
He's a shooting coach out of San Diego as well,
one of the best shooters I've been around. And I
was just talking to him because he loves basketball as
well and we're very similar minded. And he's like, look, man,
if you put the work in for a year, it's
one year. These jobs and these things that you want

(52:40):
to do are going to be here when you come back.
If you want to go chase the dream, chase the dream. Like, yeah,
I put it in a lot of work in the
past year, and I still love this game. I think
I'd like one more chance to just go and plan.
I wasn't playing for the money because I wasn't making
much money. So it's just like a chance to go
enjoy the game for for what it was and to
play at a competitive level that I had, you know,
played and for over a year. So I said yes,

(53:02):
and I think a week later I was on my
way to Spain. Where in Spain Victoria, so that is
that is um in the northern region um in a
area called Basque Country. So they actually speak a different dialect,
although not so much in that city, but that region
and that general does. Um. And it's a smaller, smaller

(53:25):
city compared to other major Spanish cities. But um, it
was nice, kind of an older one. It was food like,
I didn't like it. People said it had good food there,
but it wasn't my It wasn't my things here Spain,
everybody says the food is amazing, but I think they'd
speak more like Barcelona is like more with the seafood
and Barcelona Madrid's been great. Madrid's got so much like

(53:47):
diverse culture and food options that I love it. But um,
I was not a fan of some of those smaller cities.
So you get there, what's the team? Like? I got
there and we had four players, so it was me
the point guard from Portland, Alec wintering Um and two
Spanish guys and I was like, oh, and then one
other point guard from like George Washington um. And I

(54:09):
was like, well, we got a lot of guards. I
hope we get some bigs and hopefully we've got enough
guys because the week the season starts like two weeks
so we're a little behind here. Um, and they got
we got enough guys from the season started. But it
was interesting first first day or two. What was the
coach thing? I loved him. I mean, he was like,
let's play fast. We're obviously not going to be as

(54:32):
physical as some of the teams with big budgets or
as talented or as deep, so let's just try to
run and let's try to score and see if we
can outscore them. And we actually for having I think
we were the second lowest budget team in the league.
We were tied for the last playoff spot. We ended
up losing the tie breaker, but um, we had a
pretty successful season for a club of that kind of standing.

(54:56):
How did you do? I love the league? In scoring
that year, Um shot like one of my career year
from three, like and I kind of found the love
of basketball again, to be honest, because we were just
it was me in that point guard Alec just havn't
I don't know. It was really fun to go out
there and just compete with other teams that you know,

(55:16):
we're the big budget teams or whatever it may be,
and kind of just go out of two Americans and
compete and then so different you're like your whole world
is different when when basketball is fun, when you like
basketball way different. I needed that because Poland and bothered
me kind of like made me question that, and then
not playing for your really gade me question that. Um
so it was nice to kind of find that love again. Yeah,

(55:37):
I told the story. I think on the last part.
I was supposed to be in Israeli and I was
playing in a team that my agent owned. We were
training in Italy play in St. Petersburg, Russia. Was a
weird deal. And I flew to the Israeli and my
passport and the Israeli agent screwed up and tell me
what I was supposed to say. So like I get

(55:58):
to the front of the line, and then where where
do you live? And I was like, I live in
verse Italy. Like you cannot get to a passport. You
have to live here. You must live here for a year,
Like if I just had a fake address to get
the passport had been straight anyway, So now they're like scrambling.
They had me go try out for a team and
ashdod which again kind of same thing like hand slapped

(56:19):
hadn't eaten. I think my basketball career is coming to
an end because I'm not gonna get a passport, you know,
and then I go and just try and practice. On
my mind is you know, you just can't do it,
Like I'm not good enough to do all that. Ship
Like I'm probably good and I didn't have to be
in a perfect gad space, but not in that headspace anyway.
I just remember being in the car ride I was
I was supposed to fly out that day. I put

(56:40):
me up in some hotels, nice hotel in Drusale. I
remember just being there just like is this it Like
I've done this my whole you know, so I totally
understand that. And then obviously when you get back to playing. Uh,
for me, it wasn't until my second year. I was
the third year, I was a filling in France, and
I was like, God, I love this, this is I

(57:01):
could totally do this. Um, so you get done with
that season, Now what's the conversation we're Aginally it was
pumped for me because I had a good year, and
I think honestly they were they didn't expound. I think
my club expected me to be as successful as I was,
so like they even like they even brought a guy
and they were supposed to be the starting shooting guard,

(57:21):
and I kind of took his position in some ways.
So UM at the end of the season, agent was
pumped because he's, yeah, we're going to find you a
better job and we'll get you in a different situation
and you know, you can actually make some money and
start saving UM and hopefully be on a team that
went I think that was the other part that was
tough was we still didn't have a winning record. We're
kind of like right around five hundred, which was my

(57:42):
entire USD experience was right there at UM. So now
the thought was either I go try to make it
out in that German League or Italian league. Had some
some good opportunities, but one of the teams that went
down from a CB was kind of the next UM
team to for me and seemed like the best situation

(58:02):
team real bettis Where's Betts Study, which was an amazing city.
They describe it southern city. So finally having like a
warmer climate, which for a California kid was what I needed.
UM and about one point three million I think is
like the total population there, right around one I don't

(58:23):
I don't really remember. So finally a bigger city, which
you know as an Americans. Kind of nice to feel that,
like when you're not just isolated, there's people outside and whatnot.
Warm climate. Food was good. Um. And then the basketball
situation that you were finally on a professional club that
felt like I think my first three years I was
just kind of on like clubs that played basketball, but
like basket wasn't a priority, or they didn't do things

(58:45):
professionally or even at the collegiate level, Like it wasn't
even like that good. So I finally had a club
that kind of did things the right way and took
care of the players and helped out and something like
the off the court stuff. So, um, that was a
really good experience. What's good? Like he was a I

(59:06):
enjoyed him. He was a game manager, or not a
game manager. He was a a culture manager. He didn't
seem like he was like the biggest exs and those guys.
Because the way that they had created this team was, um,
twelve good players and really it was a good two
good point guards, two shooting guards, two threes, and then

(59:26):
they had six bigs where they would figure out who
would play depending on peal trouble. But each of the
two point guards was gonna play twenty minutes. Each of
the two two guards are gonna play twenty minutes, and
each of the two three was gonna play twenty minutes.
So I knew I was either playing the first and
the third or the second and the fourth pretty much
every game. So that was kind of weird. No, I've

(59:48):
seen some European teams do that, and it's like they
don't like playing guys thirty minutes a game if you
have that, but but playing but but setting up exactly
when you're gonna play, not based upon the game is bizarre. Oh,
so that was bizarre to me too. UM. But in
some ways it was nice because at least mentally, I
knew like what to prepare for UM. And from that standpoint,

(01:00:11):
I never had any issues with him. I had one
teammate who didn't. I really liked him, had a good
relationship with him UM and he was an easy coach
to play for. And practice was challenging and intense, but
for us, like we were the favorite of the of
the league, and so we we practiced probably harder than
we played and it showed who. We went thirty and

(01:00:32):
four and we're like six games above the second best
team in that league. Yeah, your first vision team playing
the second division? Right? So yeah yeah, so what was
that like experience? Like we were it's not the perfect
set up, but at least like winning. Now, winning was
like not an addiction, but it was like something that

(01:00:53):
I just like, I need it because it felt so good. Um,
we want seventeen in a row, like broken league record. Um.
And that was just such a fun ride to be
on that. And we'll get I'm sure you'll get to
another that when I when I end up losing a bit,
I was losing again, It's like made me question everything again.

(01:01:13):
So winning was an important thing for me to recognize
what I value in making decisions about my basketball future.
Yeah yeah, okay, I want to play on winning teams
now yeah. Um okay, so that team goes the first
Division the next year, what do you do? So this
is where this is like I love that club and

(01:01:33):
I will still say that's probably my favorite year I've
had as a professional. Um, but I did. I do
think they did me a little dirty. Um. One of
my things is I don't have I don't have a passport.
So I'm a thoroughbred American if you will. Um. And
so for some reason, in Europe, they count that against
you because they got these rules where you can only
have so many Americans per team, which to me is

(01:01:54):
hilarious because if that was a rule anywhere else, I
feel like that we talked about is it's like not
cool or what ever. Um, but it's the thing out here. UM.
So I tried to find a passport in the summer
because the club told me, I, look, if you get
a passport, it pretty much assured your spot. If not,
we're still thinking about keeping you. Because the coach really
wanted to keep me. I had a really good us
the coach um, but the GM. I don't think the

(01:02:16):
GM really thought I could play in the first division level.
So they said, look, we have until June thirty to
cut you or to keep you, and uh, we'll let
you know. So I head home for about a month
and it got to June thirty and I hadn't heard
a thing. It's like, man, these guys are keeping me.
Like I'm gonna be playing first division Spain, one of
the best leagues in the world, Like this is exciting.

(01:02:37):
I just remember like looking at my phone at two
am and it was a tweet from real Betty saying
that they cut the contract, and then like ten minutes
later a text message from my agent saying, yeah, they
cut the contract, and I was like, man, I couldn't
get a call from the GM or anybody just to
like let me know, hey, we're going in a different direction,
or like, you know, thanks for helping us get back

(01:02:57):
to first division, but like we found a two guards
what we're looking for. Like, I understand it's a business,
but I thought I deserved a little bit better than
a tweet to tell me I'll be having to find
a new job, So how did you find a new job?
That was when my agent went to work and the
team that went down from a sub the following year
came pretty hard with with with an opportunity like maybe

(01:03:20):
a priority on their team. Um, and it was back
in Spain and I knew it would be a winning
situation again. Um, it wasn't too late in the summer
where I'm sure I could have found a job in
Germany or Italy, but I was kind of growing comfortable
with the Spanish League and I felt like this was
a city that I really would like. It was San
Sebastian and I was like, man, that'd be a fun
city to live in. It's close to the water. Um,

(01:03:43):
a very great thing. So I kind of jumped on that. So, uh,
what was sand smashing Like a beautiful city. It's smaller
than Sevilla, but it's it's like, uh, I don't know,
I have so much charm and not a kind of history,
but it just seems like it's because got some really
cool old buildings. A very affluent city because basqu Country

(01:04:04):
in general is just kind of a more wealthy area
of Spain. Very clean, and they would, I think a
lot of spanishy would say it's one of the best
culinary cities in all Spain. So the food is really
really good. So it was nice seving teammates from the
area who knew who knewhere to take you to the
right spots and get you a good steak or good
fish whatever it may be. Um. And then yeah, I

(01:04:25):
mean all the off the stuff I met. I met
a really cool family that were missionaries out there, that
were Americans, so like maybe kind of feel like I
was at home as well. Um, so I really like
loved my time there. Um. Okay, so how did you
get to a studio? Untie? So we went we technically
won the league with GBC, the team in San Sebastian. COVID.

(01:04:47):
Cut it short, I got to go up with them
to a c B since we went up the following year.
UM and we stump. We won seven games, lost nine,
So that's all I was doun earlier like that, losing
just put you in a bad mental space. And also
during the COVID year, right after the COVID year, so

(01:05:09):
like the last season, I played no fans the entire season,
no visitors for nine months. Um, and you're losing and
we're losing a lot. And like coach was, this was
one of the tougher coaches that I've had to play
for a good relationship off the court. On the court
was tough um. And he got into with a lot
of guys. So just a dysfunctional environment and club and

(01:05:32):
culture all the way around. And so I told my
agent I wanted out of Spain because of this experience. Um,
but the Studiantes came with a really strong offer. It
was Madrid. I just got married, and the German league
is kind of struggling with budget stuff because they depend
upon ticket sales and there's no ticket sales during COVID,

(01:05:52):
So like a lot of the teams are down um
in the Italian league really hadn't picked up on on
the interest level, and I was like, this is probably
the best offer I'm gonna get. It's Madrid. I don't
really want to go back to second division, but this
club is a fantastic club and it's in my opinion,
probably one of the best seas in all Europe. So
I talked to my wife and we agree that this

(01:06:14):
would be a fantastic first year of marriage. So went here.
How did you meet her? We met on dating app? Really, yeah,
when right right right when COVID started, when I came home. Oh,
you came home, you came home. You're on your but
you're on lockdown. You're lockdown. This relationships violated. I went

(01:06:37):
to a beach and walked with her for about a
month and we did four four beach walk month dates
and then things started to open up a little bit again,
and uh, we continue the relationship for I think five
months before I had head back overseas. We did nine
months long distance and I was like, look, I love
this girl. I'm twenty eight, I know what I want
and I've proposed as soon as I got home. How

(01:06:58):
is she how's she been on the travel on being late?
I because you know, when you're away, you're away. And
I know it's more connected now than it was five
years ago, ten years ago, fifteen, twenty years ago, but
you're still not in America. Not how much you liked
had you been with it. She's learning. It's a process
because at first, like my first few trips, she was

(01:07:18):
just stayed in the in the house all day. And
she's not that a person. She needs to be outside,
she's to be on the sun. But she doesn't just
know how to get around. She doesn't know what's like.
She doesn't realize how much safer it is in Europe,
specifically in Spain, I should say, than other places in
the United States. So it's kind of cool to see
her now, like she kind of understands how the metro works,
so she can get around the city. If she wants
to go to the beautiful park here in but Trude

(01:07:39):
or tire A park, she can go there when I'm gone. Um.
She found a church that she went to on one
of my other road games when I had a game
on a Sunday. Um. And so it's kind of fun
to watch her she's not. She hasn't really been out
San Diego much, so she's like kind of learning this
whole new travel side and how to operate on her
on her own in a different different country. Are you

(01:07:59):
putting an away? Yeah, that's you're careful about the That's
the beautiful about plan I think over here is it's
all after tax and they pay for the apartment, the
car and uh and the utility. So like what I
make is purely savings. So what is So your plan
is put it up, put as much as away as

(01:08:19):
you can, play as long as you can. And then
that's a great question. Um, we actually have tooken a
I've done this the last two years. But I'm one
year at a time, so I have it to year
contract here, so I will obviously um uphold that, but
um we'll evaluate at the end of each season whether

(01:08:42):
it's it makes sense for us to continue doing this
or if it's time to move on and and you know,
for me to find a job in the real world,
which I don't really know where I want to go
with it. I think I love basketball so much that
would be hard to be away from the game. So
coaching training, Um, I mean you are development like the
cradle of NBA coaches, right, I know. Connections, it really is.

(01:09:07):
It's it's a really cool Sports Illustrate article came out
a few years ago. Um, that's cool. Yeah. And then
of course you got your connection with Nick, which which
puts you in that kind of basketball family. That that's
how it was. Um, shooting an incredible shooter. What do
you look at? What's your targeting? My dad always taught
me to look at the back of the rim, you

(01:09:28):
know that a little slit in the rim. It's funny.
Having talked to Steve and Nick, they both are look
at the ball guys. Um. And so for me, I
think at times I look at the back of the rim.
But I think it's just really natural to look at
the ball and then to trust the field. Um. So
I think I've kind of transitioned into that almost subconsciously,

(01:09:50):
because it's it's very natural. What is I feel like
everybody has, even the best, have some something about their
shot that they're constantly having to mo like, I can't
do this. If I do that, this will get kind
of screwed up. Or I have this one kind of
flaw that I probably wouldn't tell anybody about because just
in my brain, what's your what's your thing? What's yours?

(01:10:12):
My left hand, my left hand and get a little
twitchy or you look when I finished. I finished like
this a lot of times, and so it's weird because
I don't shoot it. I don't actually flick it. Just
my hand does that. But because I do this, sometimes
the thumb does come in and it kicks it a
little right. Um. But honestly, more than anything, I think

(01:10:34):
it's it's the risk flexibility because if you have I
think I entered it once, but sometimes I don't cock
it all the way and so when it when it,
when it gets just here, it's really easy for me
to push my shot rather than to get it here
and be able to roll that. Most three you've ever
had any game, I think don't leadings don't count. Oh man,
I would have been different. Um. College was eight. I

(01:10:57):
want to say PRO was the same. Okay, So who's
the pro was against it? Pro was against It was
my first year in Spain and it was against the
team that was that won the league that year. It
was against the best team in alley. What's that feeling like?
It was awesome? It was a road game too, So
I mean I think I had I think I had

(01:11:18):
six of them, no, five of them in the first quarter,
and they had seventeen in the first quarter. So I
was I was eating up the kind of road I
like being on the road. I don't know, there was
a fun environment. Um. It's interesting because it's one of
those deals. I always felt like first quarter is a
great way to steal points because dudes are just not ready.
It's just not like you can obviously guy could shoot.

(01:11:39):
So you get a lay up here, lay up there
or whatever. You just kind of get some get some
points going if you were really ready to play. UM
and overseas kind of much the same right where guys
are just kind of slugging it out going through the motions,
you can get an open shot here. There's it usually
comes to the first quarter. And I felt like most
of my coach was always the first play of the game.
They would run it for me, and it was always
like not a play that we practice the time, so

(01:12:01):
it wasn't like you could have scouted it. It was
kind of a new one. It was like a quick hitter,
and so I felt like I was going to get
an open look to start the game no matter what,
And I love that feeling. Um, Okay, Stepford Clay better shooter.
Step Sure, there's no hesitation there. That's the greatest shooter ever. Um.

(01:12:21):
Clay's obviously probably the second best greatest shooter ever. Um.
But what Steph does from a range standpoint off the dribble,
how does he do it? How do how does he
do the range? I don't understand. I don't understand it either,
And Dame's doing it now too, So it's it's like
incredible that two of them are doing that. Um. But
I mean I can watch him and his highlights any

(01:12:42):
day of the week. It's it's fun to watch Nick
because Nick rebounds from a bunch and I always see
the Golden State Warriors tweet out highlights and so it's
fun to watch him get to rebound for him. And
I literally I texted him last year about when he
made a D seventeam, like, what was the what was
the environment? What were you doing? Like like on eggshell
because you don't want to jink sit Like what was

(01:13:03):
that like? And he said it was a spiritual experience
because nobody said the thing. It was just a rhythm
thing where I got it out the net, I kicked
to the guy passing to him, and it was dred
seventeen in a row, seventeen three and around. Crazy. That's
the craziest time. Like that's obscene. Just one time you
get one that rattles out, you know, like, don't seems

(01:13:26):
that you know that machine they had the Olympics that
I don't think they can make a hunter seventeen a round,
no robot looking thing. Um okay. So the eight in
college were against too Maine. I want to say Homer
Road Home. I was a freshman. Never never broke that
record again. I thought I'd break it again, but I

(01:13:48):
always wanted to make sense, but it just never happened.
Eight is eight is a lot. Eight is that's that's
that's I think it was like eight for fourteen that
game too. I remember thinking like I missed some good looks.
So I was pretty disappointed. Actually, you're like, I missed
good looks everybody else like that's the greater shootings everything
that some great looks that I did. And and and

(01:14:09):
if this guy wasn't so selfish, I would have gotten
five more looks. I would have made four more exactly.
Um uh okay. So close your eyes and picture yourself
in ten years. Where are you? What are you doing?
I think I'm I'm training high school kids, maybe the
occasional middle school kid as well. UM, probably have two

(01:14:30):
kids in my own. My wife's working as an occupational
therapist at a elementary school, and ideally we're still in California. Um,
your your maintenance? Do you? Are you big stretcher? Now?
Do you do yoga now? Ice and stuff? Yeah? I
think that was something that I'm thankful I went to
a college where that stuff was like available, and I

(01:14:52):
wish I would have done more of it. Um. But yeah,
definitely much bigger on taking care of my body, stretching
before bad stretching. When I get up, UM, I put
my feet or full body in an ice path after
every practice. UM, I try to do something with the
physio guy out here at least once a week. And
then I would say when we do weight room, which

(01:15:12):
is two or three times a week, I'm always there
twenty five minutes early to do some type of mobility work,
whether that's um strength or just like passive stretching, just
so I can get warmed up that way and then
obviously do something as well. Before practice because I can't anymore.
I'm only twenty. I can't imagine I'll be like a
thirty two. Um, I can't walk down the steps to

(01:15:36):
practice and be ready to go like it takes me
a good warm up to be ready. Um. Okay, so
are you a morning practice? Just caught you a coffee guy? Now? Um?
Now yet now yet I have I've always thought I've
had like a good amount of energy, and I go
to bed fairly early, so I'm up by seven or
eight o'clock. And so we practiced eleven out here and

(01:15:58):
it's perfect for me, So I'm ready. I'm generally ready.
It a goo. Um, no coffee needed. Your pre game routine? Okay,
games games at seven, let's just games and seven. What's
your give me your give me your day home game?
Has never changed? Um, I would like to be at
the gym two hours before the game. So if the
games at seven, I'm probably waking up at thirty A

(01:16:21):
good breakfast, but more importantly it's for me, is like
just a good lunch of like chicken, veggies, maybe um,
a potato in there, I don't know. Um. And then
I'm at the gym two hours before the game. It's
been like clockwork since I was a freshman in college,
and so first thing I do is I get like
a good five minute workout in a shooting workout, um,

(01:16:44):
And it's kind of been the same to be honest
for the last few years, where I know what shots
I want to warm up with and what shots I
think I'm getting in a game, and so I kind
of mimic those. After I do that, I go to
the weight room and I just do some mobility work
to make sure like my hips are feeling like active,
strong and whatnot, hamstrings are alive, and maybe a little

(01:17:06):
bit of ankle mobility so that I I can like plant
move and then I like to read the Bible about
an hour before the game, and then generally out here
they want to start like the team warm up, if
you will, fifty minutes for the emails for the game.
So I got about ten minutes and just chill rest,
kind of get my mind right. I like to sit
on the bench, watch my teammates warm up, and then

(01:17:28):
ready for the team warm up. Adoption of teams from
Foster care is a topic not enough people know about,
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(01:17:51):
to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to
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(01:18:37):
look and see a tree, They see the wrinkled face
of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky, they
see treasure in pebbles, they see a windy path that
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Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
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(01:18:57):
you by the United States Force Service and the at
gal Soul. You always read the same, the same passage. Yeah,
which one Colossians three. What's it saying? It's just about
the overall chapter, just about kind of everything that you
do doing not for the approval of man, but for
you know, the approval of God. So for me, it's

(01:19:18):
reminded that, Look, I'm not playing for myself out there.
I got a team to compete with, and I got
a God that I believe I'm an ambassador for, and
so I want to represent him well and not be
a I don't know, an egotistic maniac, but also at
the same time be very competitive. I believe God has
given me a spirit of competitiveness to go out there
and compete. So for me, it's a perspective thing. Um,

(01:19:41):
you get done home game? What what then? What's what's
your routine? Oh that's a good one. Um, that would
be interesting cause I've never had a wife to come
home too, so I'm sure that will change now. But
normally I love when we plan on Sunday because anything,
I'm gonna come and watch American football. Um, but I'd
normally come home and chill because, like you've sometimes after

(01:20:03):
a game where you you've normally had to shoot around
in the morning anyway, so after a full day of sports,
you're like your body is just wrecked. So I always
try to find like a good movie or a good, good,
good something to watch and have dinner and go to
bed and hopefully have a nice soft day. Favorite movie. Oh,
that's such a tough question. I don't know. Let's just

(01:20:24):
talk a lot about this. Uh Gladiators up there, and
then obviously I love like this is very millennial at me.
But The Dark Knight or Dark Knight Rises are two
of my favorites. So I mean he's as a director,
I mean he's so good Christians for Nolan so good.
It's like one of the things that pains me for
my my Semi Sons two album, Like dude, we gotta

(01:20:46):
watch the We gotta watch the Christopher Nolan Batman. It's
like I don't like Batman, damn like nothe in The
Batman doesn't he hasn't watched it. He doesn't know, isn't
he doesn't. Yeah, the Dark Knight is unbelievably in that
performance by each Ledger was unbelievable. Yeah, it's really really good.
I'm gonna watching with him this this weekend. We has him,
We has I just got into where now he's watching

(01:21:08):
full sporting events. So because you know they all watched it. Fun. Yeah,
it's it's really it's very very very cool. Um Okay,
one thing about marriage, you did not know until you
get married. I did not know that women have hair
go all over the place, like in the shower, on

(01:21:31):
the floor, So that's when everywhere everywhere. It's incredible. And
I'm blonde, so even if it happened to me, like
you want to see it. But she's got brown hair,
so I'm picking it up all the time. Now did
she have what did she have any idea of who
you were? Anything about your story like you like I'm
a basketball player, like you're six white dude? Her her family?

(01:21:52):
What was that? Were those conversations? Like this was weird?
So I played an all star game my senior in
high school and I actually beat her ex boyfriend of
the time, I know, small world. So she was at
the game, the All Star game. Um, and we didn't
put this together until obviously later. Um, but she she

(01:22:12):
actually had heard of my name, but we did not
know each other until you beat her. And now you
took his girl. I mean, yeah, I know that that
guy's got you on the list. Somewhere somewhere there's some
guy smoking cigarette gotten out there and he say he's
got you on the list. That's funny. And you're gonna
run into him in the bar, you know, we run

(01:22:34):
into him in a picnic with kids or something. Years later. Now,
I always hated you, and now you're kind of a
good guy, which is funny because I always thought he
was a cool guy. I always considered him somewhat of
a friend because we weren't like he was East County
and I was North County. But like, if I ever
saw him, I remember you, Like, it's up, bro, But
I don't know how he feels about me now, Um,
how where does the belief inself come from? Like, look,

(01:23:00):
if we're honest, you will walk on college. I know
you've got a scholarship. Whatever we had one offer, but
there was never never felt like in talking to you
or watching you that there was This wasn't what I
was meant to be meant to do. And part of
it probably comes from you had success early so you
didn't have to question yourself. But I think you know,

(01:23:20):
confidence not arrogance, But confidence is such a huge key
to this entire thing. Where does that come from? Especially
with shooting, I think too, because it's just so easy
to lose that, And I think that's why I like
golf so much, because it tests your confidence as a person. Um,
I would say it comes from my faith because for me,

(01:23:41):
it allows me to not think about maybe the consequences
of a bad game or the consequences of misshop because
I truly believe that, regardless of what happens, that I've
been given this opportunity for a reason and that things
will work out one way or the other, and that
you know, I'm I've been given a skill set to
where it'll it'll it will eventually work out, so I

(01:24:01):
don't need to doubt myself or doubt the opportunity, and
I can just go out there and enjoy and try
my very very best and if it doesn't work out,
then we find, you know, something else to do. Um.
And I would also say that I think my parents
and still that confidence me from a very early age
because they've always believed in me and they've always um
supported me. Um My dad's been fantastic, I would say,

(01:24:25):
fantastic father to have, especially in sports, because it was
never about how I played. It was it was more about,
you know, did I go out there and compete, That
I go out there and do the best I can.
Have nothing to do with numbers anything that. They didn't
care about any of that. I remember the only time
he ever said anything negative about my performance was when
I played like a summer league game. He said, Hey,
if you're going to go out there and not play hard,

(01:24:47):
let me know ahead of time so I don't come
watch that. And that's stuck with me. I was like,
all right, I'm I'm not and this flint my father
again by you know, giving a half effort game when
I don't feel like it matters, when really I should
be grateful for the oportunity to play. Um And so
I am thankful for kind of having a father and
a family that help me with that. And then the

(01:25:07):
confidence since awesome listen, I've taken up way too much
of your time. I really appreciate you joining me. I
can't wait to the follow your season. I like to
check back in the season. Nobody does. It's right, like
guys play overseas and all we do is like we
just kind of track it at the end of career. Um.
I think it's fascinating and it's a it's like a

(01:25:29):
professional lifestyle that so many dream of going through but
don't know what it's actually like. I really really appreciate
everything you're sharing. Yeah, well, thank you for having me on.
It's been it's been awesome. Right, And then next time
you get back in town. I'm recovering from an a
c L. I'm an old I'm an old man. I
never got her plan. And I was playing golf at Aviara,

(01:25:50):
Um beautiful force. Yes, great, and so Buddy Minds texting
me is like, hey man, we only got Fortnite. You
come hooping and they're not very good, and I was like, yeah, okay,
so I'm driving back. I only played nine because it's
backed up. It wasn't much fun. I want to get
to this game. So I just like calling and texting
buddies like I didn't want to beat you want I

(01:26:11):
didn't want to get hurt. And I played, but you know,
the big thing when you get older is like, don't
play heavier than you're playing weight. That's when you get hurt.
I was it was like probably seven eight pounds everything.
I'm playing weight in good shape, but not like when
I played. And then I didn't want to play the
whole time. And plus you're playing with guys, and I
just wanted one of the dude is good and I
had like three buddies like maybe knock into it. So

(01:26:35):
I show up. It's like a six dirty game. I
come to my house. I used the doctor dish, I
get like get a hundred up, you know, because again, yeah,
you don't want to look like a clown out there.
So I'm playing. I'm playing good and can kind of
control on things. We'll get to the second half and
it's getting a little more competitive with I picked me

(01:26:55):
up at half court and I drive past this guy
and I like like came in the lane instead of
doing what like the kids do now you sweep blow
or go over sweep high like I kind of like
power jumped to the middle and like all of a
sudden up on my knee rip and I've never been hurt.
I knew it right away. Anyway. My point is by
time you get back, I'll be capable of passing to you.

(01:27:19):
I'm not. I can't playing a pickup game with you,
but we'll do. We'll we'll break bread that way. It's
like cool, all right, that'd be great. I love that.
All right. I have a great year, and take care,
take care of that wife. And thanks so much. Safe
recovery as well. We'll talk. We'll talk, so thanks shine,
sure see my thanks to Johnny, my thanks to you.

(01:27:41):
A reminder check out the Doug Outlip Show daily three
to six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific. You can download
that as a podcast as well. We'll listen to it
on Fox Sports Radio, the I Heart Radio app, Fox
Sports Trade dot Com, or Series XV two oh three.
I'm Doug Gottlieb. Hope you enjoyed this is all ball.

(01:28:17):
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All Ball - Kyrie Vaxx Mess, Spanish League Guard Johnny Dee on LLWS Experience, Rebuilding U of San Diego, Overseas Good, Bad, Ugly

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Doug Gottlieb

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}All Ball - Kyrie Vaxx Mess, Spanish League Guard Johnny Dee on LLWS Experience, Rebuilding U of San Diego, Overseas Good, Bad, Ugly