All Ball - Pt. 1 Former Loyola Marymount HC Max Good on Building MCI Prep Power, Coaching Future NBA Players, MJ/LeBron Debate - The Doug Gottlieb Show

Episode Transcript
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Let's ride. Hi, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb and you

(01:32):
have downloaded, hopefully subscribed and rated. Write a review for
All Ball reminded the Doug Gotlip Shows daily three to
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you can download it as a podcast just like you
did this one. All Ball as I think most of
you know who continue to downloaded and the numbers are

(01:52):
obscene and we really appreciate it. All Balls a place
where you know, generally who keep it to basketball. I've done,
We've done football. I I incur you to look through
the archives. T J. Hush Benzato was amazing, amazing, share
with this his story. Um. But you know, in addition
to sometimes commentary about basketball and specific things going on,
you know like Rutgers upsetting Perdue at the buzzer and

(02:15):
a half court shot doesn't really dissuay me from thinking
produce a final four team UM or you know Gonzaga
and their dominance over U C l A, their losses
to Alabama and the loss to Duke again doesn't dissuay
me does don't get put some caution in it. Uh,
you know, you look at how Duke has looked for
the most part, Like I think we see the gathering

(02:37):
and and we'll know more about Butler, We'll know more
about Arizona here in the coming weeks. So the thing
is this um this podcast is not just reserved for
any one thing. But what I do like to incorporate
is long form interviews with people that have Everybody has
a story, right, get their story, and sometimes you get

(02:58):
really colorful stories and colorful backgrounds. If you're a hoop
guy and you hear the name Max Good, you're like,
oh yeah, Max Good, You're like, what is your what
is your impression of him? What? What is his name
bring to mind? Of course, he was twice interim coach
interim head coach in college un know V and l M.
You end up taken over at at loy La Marymount

(03:20):
Um both times for Billy Bayo. By the way, he's
extremely close with bay No There's a lot that goes
into how he became Bayno's assistant. He was also a
head coach once upon a time at Eastern Kentucky University,
and of course the longtime head coach at Maine Central Institute,
which is at least when he was there, an incredible
prep school program in Maine, his home state, which is

(03:41):
where he joins us from. I am going to put
this out there. Okay, if you're driving for the holidays
and it download this podcast, this is one to keep
the earbuds in. Um I. We we don't put any
sort of boundaries on guests. This is a save zone
if you will. And by his own accounts, he's inappropriate.

(04:06):
But what you're gonna find in this first part of
my Max Good interview is he's amazing personality. He's just
enjoyable to listen to, and he does. He gives zero
fs at all for what anyone in society thinks. He
just has strong opinions based upon a lifetime built around basketball. So,

(04:26):
without further ado, the legendary coach Max Good, Max um Man,
it's been quite a journey for you in basketball. You're
you grew up where like where Gardner, Maine, is just
outside of a gust of the state capital. So what

(04:51):
was what was basketball like for you as a kid. Well,
I was a decent high school player. I average steen
seventeen a game. But that was in Maine, you know,
and it was totally different. Although ironically, there's a kid
in in Maine this year the rank in the top
six players in the company and he's just a freshman Cooper.

(05:15):
Oh no, he's terrific. Um. So let look, I spent
a lot of time in Maine, so I understand, like
what it's like. And you and I were discussing that
Portland likes to describe itself as North Boston, but we're talking, uh,
sixty five years ago or so, what was basketball like?

(05:38):
What was your basketball life like the rest of us
we could go down and that was back when kids
play pickup ball? Right? Um? For you? Like, what was
it like? Was it you in a rec center? Was
it you with your dad? Like? Where was it that
you're back? Because you clearly love this game. You've made
a life out of this game. Where was that formed? Well,

(06:00):
the Celtic I lived in. I actually grew up in Holton, Maine,
which is about ten miles from the Canadian border, and
the Celtics used to tour through there, through a little
small burghs in in in Maine and New England, and
the Celtics came to town. And I've never seen any

(06:22):
black athletes ever, And of course Bill Russell came and
Sam Jones and Ksey Jones and those guys, and so
I saw them play, and I absolutely fell in love
with basketball the first time I saw them. And uh,
I just you know, I said, this is somehow or another,

(06:44):
I gotta find a way to be associated with this
the rest of my life. So you play in high
school and then how do you decide what you're gonna
do in college? Well, I went to Transylvania for one year,
and Transylvania is a very good academic school. Nightma is
to take every elective my first year and had a
two point oh. I liked college. I hated school, and

(07:10):
I surely wasn't going to let college get in the
way of my education. But I end up my brother
went to Eastern Kentucky University on a Gulf scholarship, and
I visited him, and so I went there and finished.
So what what what was it like to to grow
up in Maine? And end up your in eastern Kentucky. Now,

(07:32):
one thing about me, and I think all of New
England that people don't realize is there's plenty of its country.
It's redneck, it's it's just it's a different accent, but
there's it's actually it's probably a lot like Kentucky. Or
am I wrong? What was It's ironic? You said that
because some political person said that there's no two states

(07:55):
further apart that are more closely aligned than kent Ucky.
In Maine, I thought it was very ironic. Now we're
talking Maine north of Augusta. Augusta South is a little
more you know, a little more sophisticated. In other words,
people from Augusta South voted for uh Biden. They don't

(08:17):
vote for Trump. And if I'm letting my true feelings
be known, so be it. Yeah. People will ask me
if so and so voted for Trump, and I'll say,
oh no, they graduated from elementary school so they would have.
And I don't know what your political feelings are, but
I'm not afraid to let anybody know what mine are.

(08:38):
I'm not either. That's that's an incredible line. Um ay
one I made up. I'm not very original, but I
made that one up myself that that was really good.
I graduated from elementary school. So you, uh so you're
East as you played Eastern Kentucky. Yes, No, I didn't
play at Eastern Kentucky. I played at Transylvania. Would you

(09:00):
play for uh Lee Rose? We'll see C. M. Newton
and Lee Rose Newton? Yeah, two pretty good people. Yeah,
and I played baseball and we actually went fifteen and one.
And uh I was probably a better well I wasn't
probably I was. I was small, but I was also slow.

(09:25):
You know two things. That and that isn't original. I
got that from somebody else. So so why don't you
played Eastern It wasn't good enough? Okay? See, just a
regular student did a student, and I became This is
the reason I picked Eastern Kentucky. Now this tells you

(09:46):
how much faith I put in education. I listened to
the state tournament and Cawood Ludford of the did the
Kentucky game. So did the state tournament. And I listened
to that. In Maine. I listened to on w h A. S.
And he was saying if he were to integrate at Kentucky,
the player he would take with be Bobby Washington who
was a guard at Dunbar, and Joe Hamilton was on

(10:08):
the team. And both of those guys are six ft
in under and played in the NBA or played professional basketball.
So I I was thinking about going to Western Kentucky,
but I wanted to see Bobby Washington play basketball. That's
why I picked them to go to school. That's a
good valid reason, isn't it. First Secrek, Yeah, so you

(10:30):
go there? Are you Are you involved in the basketball
program at all? You know? I used to sneak into
practice and Guy Strong was an extreme He actually guy
coach at Oklahoma State at one time, but he was
very very strict. And I go to practice, and uh,
because I got close with Bobby Washington and tok Coleman

(10:53):
and Garfield Smith who played for the Celtics, and uh
Willie Woods, and I would go up in the bleacher
and I would hide and watch practice. He uh, he
saw me up there one day and he said to
the assistant Jackiss, and he said, who in the hell
is that up there? He said, coach, he knows more
about our team than we do. And he said, well,

(11:14):
you have that son of a bitch come over and
see me. So I came over in Simon. He told me.
You know, I told him I'd love to do anything
he said. So he wanted me keeping stats and practice,
and I had the ability. Now I can't remember my
phone number today is obvious how I got on this podcast.
But I could watch eight transitions and I could recall

(11:37):
after eight transitions are the next stop and play. I
could remember every turnover, every steel, every game, every assist,
you know, every you know, all that stuff. I had
a gift for doing that. Well, I certainly don't today.
So you do that for three years? Uh? Two or three? Uh?

(11:59):
You get done with college? Well, I went to Madison
coach down at Madison High School was just down the
hill we had There were a hundred and ten students there,
and I eventually became the head coach at Madison High
because if Eastern was playing, they weren't practicing. Consequently, I'd
go down to the high school and what's in practice

(12:21):
every day. When I said I loved basketball, it was
beyond love. You know, I'm speaking ephemistically when I say love.
I had an unbelievable passion for it, just to you know,
be around it. And they had they were had a
hundred and ten students and they beat every when when
I went there, we beat every team in Lexington. All

(12:41):
of them had, you know, twenty five hundred more students,
and we had fifty two boys and fifty eight girls.
But other that fifty two boys, we had the right
seven or eight. You know, it was an inner city school.
And and uh, the first seven years I coached, I
never had a white player because there weren't any there.

(13:02):
So what what what was that? What was that like?
Though you're your guy who grew up, as you pointed out,
you've never seen black athletes except when the Celtics came
to town in Maine. Now you're at Eastern Kentucky and
you're in Kentucky, or a white guy coaching a black athlete.
What was what was that experience like for you? How
did you how did you how did you bridge the gap? Oh?

(13:25):
It came very easily. Really, as a person from Maine,
sometimes growing up in Maine, you feel a little self
conscious or you don't have greatest confidence. You know, you're
you're you're kind of treated like an outlier, so to speak. Well,
I was determined to overcome that, you know, and I

(13:45):
got along extremely well with those kids from the first
day I was ever with them without patronizing them. The
thing that was amazing was how hard I got on them,
how they responded and respected it, you know, I mean
I was. I had an assistant that worked with me

(14:06):
that showed his wife. Had his wife listened to when
night got after perdue, and he said to her, what
do you think of that? She said, oh, that's outlandish. Well,
he said, coach goods about times that ten, you know,
And I took it as a compliment. But it's amazing.
To this day, I get calls from former players daily,

(14:30):
and the ones I got on the hardest are the
ones that I got you know that I get the
most uh respect or or connection with Why do you think?
Why do you think we're in this era? And it's interesting.
So I'm coaching you and I have parents who pushed back,
and I'm not. I don't crush him, you know, you

(14:51):
just it's it's obviously different, but I do. I will
get onto him far harder than most coaches will. And
for the most part, my eyep parents are like, that's
what they need. But you have a good portion of
people that you know, they that's not how they believe
their child should be coached. Right, These are middle school kids.

(15:15):
Know they don't want them to be coached. They want
them to be pampered. They want you to rub baby
oil and baby powder in their asks every night. But
I don't I don't understand why. Like, again, what you're
saying is accurate. The coaches who get on you, teach you,
grind you, those are the ones who resonate the most,

(15:36):
so that now we're all adults, you would think we
want that for our kid, you know, especially if as
long as you're fair, right, that's that's really it's it's
the coaches that aren't fair. They just you're on a
kid for no reason, or you're on a kid kid
trying to make them quit. But if you're fair in
terms of like, hey man, how many times have I
told you to box? Like I've literally told you to
box out fifty times. I'm tired of hearing myself think

(15:59):
you know, or calling your telling kids when they're playing
soft because they are playing soft. Um, I don't understand why.
Why do you think we've gotten to that point? You're
just your personal perspective, having lived through these various generations, Well,
I think every generation, a man gets a little softer anyway,
and I think there's a that natural inclination to do that.

(16:23):
And parents aren't really concerned about the team. They're concerned
about their child, and they're not realistic. And it used
to be doug where parents took took care of kids,
and I think we're in an age now, especially with
the you know, with the uh, the really talented ones,

(16:43):
where they expect the kids to take care of the parents.
They're looking for that golden horseshoe, and they want somebody
that's gonna, you know, hit it big. And of course
for everyone that hits it big, we know the stats
are a hundred that don't and uh. I think some
parents resent the fact that they can get on their

(17:03):
own child and their child doesn't respond very well. But
the coach gets on them and they do respond to
the coach, and I think the sinnatural resentment there. And
I never, I never, I never fucked with parents. I
would tell him that I'll talk to your I'll talk
to you about your son's academic or social program progress
at any time, but basketball's off limits. You know. Hugh Durham,

(17:28):
who I really admired when he was at Florida State.
He went into Florida State. You know, they become they
become all black almost overnight. And people on his own
press role, we're pulling against him. And yet they reached
heights that they never had before. And he would have
he would have kind of a meeting with parents and

(17:49):
fans before the season. He didn't bring out a white board, well,
probably a black boarder a green board at that time,
but a white board, and he'd say, all right, here's
my players. Deploy them in a two to one defense,
and give me their responsibilities, and then conversely, show me
how you would beat that, how you would counter that.
And of course I'd sit there and like in the

(18:12):
seventh grade, when you were in class and you didn't
know the answer, you're ducking behind the person in front
of you because you didn't want to be called on.
He'd make the very cogent point that you don't really
know what the hell you're talking about. You know, you're
you're not knowledgeable enough. I'll talk to you about these things,
but I can't talk to you about basketball because we're
not on the same wavelength. Well that didn't endear to

(18:35):
them anymore, but I think they would start keeping their distance.
You know, I just parents mean well, but you know,
it's just just like Alonzo Ball's dad. You know, the
kid just now is learned to shoot with the ball
off his right shoulder, not off his left shoulder, you know,

(18:56):
and he had him all those years, and now he's
preached about his other son, who you know, it was
averaging about eight points a game in the G League.
Thinking he said, I sent Charlotte a gym and and uh,
you know, he should be you know, he should be
up with the varsities in the G League now. And
I don't mean to you know, to mean them, because overall,

(19:18):
I guess you could say he's done a reasonably good
job with those kids, because they you know, the two
of them have been highly productive. But everybody thinks they
no basketball. Nobody would walk in the doctors or a
lawyer's office and profess to know what they're doing because
they've never practiced doctor and a lawyer. And but they

(19:39):
they have played in you know, some of them played
fifth fifth grade in the mineral, so they think that
puts them at the top of the list. You know,
it's funny that they wouldn't walk into a doctor's office
never Never, they would cower and run. Fox Sports Radio
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(23:15):
next at? When did you get out of Kentucky? Well?
I went to I I end up being the head
coach at Eastern Kentucky, and ironically, I've had nineteen different
players that I've associated with that have made the NBA.
But the best player I ever had there was a
kid at Eastern Kentucky was more talented than all of them,

(23:36):
and he didn't play in the NBA because he was
very laid back. Unbelievably talented. Came down to Eastern Kentucky, Illinois,
and Cincinnati, and he chose us. The weekend he came
to visit, the girls state tournament was there, so we
put him in the dorm with my manager and his
manager had gerbils and snakes in the room. The next day,

(23:59):
I take to breakfast at McDonald's, then I leave at
noon to go watch Kentucky Louisville in that landmark game
in Knoxville. Tennessee, and I said, Tony. The kid's name
was Tony Parris. He average twenty one points a game
as a freshman. You know, he had thirty four against Auburn,
twenty nine against Memphis State, UH, the second half against Louisville.

(24:21):
In this day and age, guess what he probably would
do after his freshman year at Eastern Kentucky. But I said,
I said, Tony, how can you turn us down? I
put you in the Richmond zoo, I feed you fucking
McDonald's and I'm saying, fuck you. I don't care enough
about you. I'm going to watch Louisville and Kentucky play.

(24:41):
He looked at me and he grant. He said, Coach
Eastern can I mean McDonald's is my favorite restaurant. I said, well,
we're golden. I get a call Sunday night. He commits
to us. Now. He visited Illinois and Cincinnati's and ironically
we played Illinois UH in his sophomore year. We played
in their tournament and they had that they had four

(25:03):
black kids and they you know, welch and I mean
they were really good, and they had one white kid
that was a great defender, about a six four kid well,
Tony got thirty four against him. You know, he gave
him thirty four and he couldn't guard him in the
phone booth let alone. Note on the floor should have
been an NBA player, but he I ran into John Lawyer.

(25:25):
John Lawyer was assistant at acclin with Hugginson. I saw
him out at l m U and I passed him
in front of my assistance. I said, John, how good?
How talent through was Tony Paris? He said, NBA superstar good.
He was six one and had to have eight stitches
taken in his head because he followed up a rebound

(25:47):
once and hit his head on those loops that hold
the nets and and and scratched, you know, put a
cotton's head. I've never seen anybody more talented than he is. Ever,
he did things that were Jordan's, Like his hang time
was maybe even better than Jordan's. I know that sounds crazy.

(26:07):
And by the way, I don't think it's even close
with Jordan and Lebron, you know, I think Jordan's invested,
separate played, his competitive nature separates him from all these people.
Kobe was really you know, it was it was the
other night to Celtics and I go off. I digress
all the time. I can't help myself. But the the
other night, Lebron's playing and they're getting beat badly, and uh,

(26:32):
they show him on the bench and he's sitting there grinning,
And I said, can you ever I sent a tweet up,
can you ever imagine Michael Jordan's getting beat by twenty
and sitting on the bench grinning? Or better yet, can
you ever see Michael Jordan's let j J Barea, who
I had tremendous respect for holding eight points while he

(26:54):
hid dunk barrier and the ball bray and the ball
and see what she hit the ground first? You know,
Jordan is a psychopath, But I mean that as a compliment. Sure,
no question. Yeah. I talked to Tom Conchowski about him.
He said he came to their camp and he said,
nicest kid in the world, pull you through the ball
out and he said he was just, you know, just

(27:16):
crazy competitive, that he'd never seen anything like him. I said,
who's better him or Lebron? He said, oh, from the
neck down, probably Lebron because he's bigger and stronger. Although
he's not nearly his fluid as Jordan's. I don't think
he has his footwork, and people think I'm trapping on
Lebron when I say, you know, he's a top five player. Hell,

(27:37):
that's pretty good. Yeah, you know, Max, MAXI mcnailed something
right there that I've I've dealt with ever since I've
covered basketball, which is saying somebody's a top five player
in the history of the game is an incredible compliment.
It may not be if you think you're the greatest ever,
but remember we're putting you in the air of Bill Russell,

(27:59):
and I mean Larry Bird and Magic Johnson somehow disappeared
from this debate. You know, I was, I was, I'm
old enough to know it. But you're you were alive
as the prime of your your basketball existence. Like they
were basketball, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan's Larry Bird Matt
Johnson were they were basketball. That's it. It was every

(28:19):
year waiting for those two to play in the finals,
and they were just better than everybody else. And while
I mean, that's that's that's that's that's my feeling about,
and that was also the golden era of the NBA.
Oh Jordan's said, people didn't have a clue how good
Larry Bird was. Said, try garden his ass. And I
made this up and somebody called because I said Larry

(28:41):
Bird was probably a step slow and two steps ahead,
you know, because because of his savvy and I saw
him play in the high school Indiana Kentucky All Star game.
He played a minute in twenty nine seconds. Quit didn't
play the second game. You know, he went to He
didn't just go to Indiana State. He went to Rose

(29:01):
Holmand for a while. But he you know, he perfected
his craft playing against prisoners of the state prison in
uh fren Slick. He became tougher. You know, Larry Bird
is a bitch, and I mean he's he's really good.
And uh Lebron anointed himself as the best player a
few years ago. And Jordan's you know, whether he was

(29:24):
being sincere or not. He said, that's disrespectful to wilt
and and and wrustle them in those guys. And he said,
I would never say that. Well, I'll say it for him.
You watch films of Jordan's footwork and his ability to hang,
and you know his development as a mid range post player,

(29:45):
and you know he toyed with people. He toyed with people.
I mean, to me, he's not even it's not even Cloks.
He's the best player that ever played. That's me. Everybody's
welcome to their opinion, and mind's probably wrong, but I
know them all us right. Why why did it ended?

(30:05):
Why did it end? You know, listen to this. We
had a president and he's dead now and I'm not
terribly sad about that, but he came in and he
wanted he wanted me to cheat, and Doug, I'm not
going to try to be you know, what's the word? Uh?

(30:27):
I mean holier now and actually, yeah, holier. I've never
cheated anywhere I've been. Don't believe in it. I'm not
gonna start at the forty yard line and run a
guy in the end zone and be, you know, go
on a sixty yard and beat him and say I
beat somebody. You haven't beat anybody. You've bout cheating them.
And I wouldn't. There's no way I could coach the

(30:48):
kids I did and the way I did and cheat.
They'd be holding that over my head. I mean not,
I wouldn't have lasted a day. Let me tell you what. Now,
my wife is right here. I'll tell you what ended
my career coaching a You here, my grandson was in
the eighth grade at the time. He threw the ball
away in the game. I called time out. I said,

(31:10):
listen here, you little motherfucker. You throw the ball away again,
I'm gonna break your fucking jaw. Now he was an
eighth grader. Now you know now that that you know
that there's no way that's acceptable, no way. And on
the way home, my wife let me, not so kindly, said,
my coaching career was over. You know, I'm crew coaching,

(31:32):
and uh, you know, that kid calls me three times
a week, you know, because he's tough. He wants to
go to West Point and they'll be screwing up if
they don't take him. I'm not talking as a basketball player,
as a human being and as a tough kid. And
I mean he goes on political marches. He did when
he was in the eighth grade. But just you know,

(31:52):
my wife's waving at me because I digress and get
off on these tangents. How long did this show? Does
it go to too this afternoon? Do whatever whatever you want?
We can we this is I want to. I want
to I want to get through mean and get to
Vegas and get to Loyal Merymount and get to thoughts now,
so you're you're allowed to digress. That's what this is.
It's just kind of want I want. I coached. I

(32:14):
went to m C I from Eastern Well, let me
back up. At Eastern Kentucky. We were the only team
in the league that made the final four four straight
years in our league to go to the conference tournament.
And yet we won nineteen one year and eighteen. That's
the most did one and back to back seasons in
forty years. And we were playing a pretty steady diet

(32:35):
of West Virginia's and Cincinnati's and Memphis States and Tennessee.
And I believe that I thought we could recruit a
little better player if we played against those kinds of teams. Well,
and we only had two non guarants, I mean to
guarantee games. Now, a lot of teams will play four. Well,

(32:56):
a big difference between two and four. You know, you
can take out an eighteen win season and turn that
into two with those games. But anyway, the president wanted
me to cheat, and the a D told me that.
I said, I'm not doing it. I said, there's no
way I'm doing that. I said, you need to get
somebody else in well, they proceeded to get somebody else.

(33:19):
So I go to m c I. And we had
way better talent at m c I than we did
at Eastern Kentucky. So so this is n he come
back home Baigne. Now you hadn't been there in twenty years, right, Okay,
how did how did m c I become the place? Was?
Was m c I a basketball factory before you got there?

(33:39):
A little bit? But they didn't have a lot of discipline,
and I don't like to despare. And again that's what
people told me, and I don't like to rely on
what people tell me. They said the coach would you know,
he'd get a lead and then he'd start sucking on
a lollipop or something. Literally it was his the red
oar back cigar, you know, and we'd be one year

(34:03):
we had Damar Johnson and Karen Butler. Now those are
two pretty good players for a prep school team. Tom
Knscholsky said, the two prep school teams the last two
years I was there. Another Hey, my last year, we
had Eric Barkley, Kevin Brad aswell Bobby Smith. Three point guards.
One went to Villanova, one went to Georgetown went one

(34:24):
went to St. John's, all three starters in the Big
East as freshman. That's how much talent we had. And
how did you get how did you get kids to
come to prep school and play for you and get
motherfucked in? Made? You know what here? Well, skip to
my Lula was supposed to come and I told him,
you're not coming to Maine. Stand on the street corner

(34:45):
on Swington Do I scared the ship out of lamar odom. Uh.
He was supposed to come, he didn't show up. I
called him. I'm at a Clippers game years later and
he saw me and came over. He said, the worst
mistake I ever made was coming to them. See I
and uh, because people had told him that, you know,

(35:06):
he would never he would never last there. Trevor Diggs,
who I had a U N l V was supposed
to come and he wouldn't come. And Trevor told me
said he had a stuttering problem, which endeared him too
many people, because he would always show up the prost
postgame interviews and he said he'd say he came in

(35:26):
he could cook, cook And I'm not making fun of him.
I love Trevor James. He said coach. They told me
they wanted me to come to m G said, I
can't walk there and play for that crazy motherfucker, he said,
he said, I guess I got no choice. Now, I said, no,
you damn sure don't. But if you don't start playing
better defense, you won't be playing for me either. Well,

(35:48):
his last game in college, he had forty nine points
against Wyoming, who won the league. Now that year we
couldn't go to the you know, from U N l V.
When I took over, and Billy Bano got Railroad, and
I think to this day, I don't think he should
have you know, gotten let go. But we we beat

(36:08):
Wyoming twice that year. It's the only two losses they
had in the conference. We beat him at third place,
we beat him at our place. And they had two
pros on their team, you know, and and uh the
year before I got there, they had Tyrone Nesby, Keon
Clark and Shawn Marion. Won seventeen games. And next year
we won and didn't have you know what, we had

(36:32):
Casper's Kambala. Yeah, well play both played as both those teams,
both in Vegas. By the way, Hey, you let me
tell you how you were my scout the second year,
I said, we're gonna guard the ship out of Dug
Goltley until he passes it. Then we're gonna drop off
because he'll never touch the ball again a second time
in the possession. Was I accurate? Yea? And I know

(36:57):
the year before you had a book, Coose assist. Let
me tell you something. I saw you play at Laguna
Beach on that half court, and I said, I don't
know that I've ever seen a bigger prick play basketball,
And like got it. You were cocky and talking ship

(37:18):
and they couldn't do anything with you, and you weren't
doing it scoring. You were doing it with defense, toughness
and passing. Oh I I was fascinated watching you play.
I said, God, damn, that guy's an asshole, but in
a good way. Patrick Beverley is a prick. Marcus smartsa asshole,
and they got on him because he jumped on Jason

(37:41):
Tatum and jay Len Brown. Well he had to. Nobody
else had nuts enough to say anything to him. You know,
they tiptoe throw the tulip slightly. You know, they look
like a Shetland ponies at a stud firm, And Marcus
Smart jumped their ass and justifiably so. People in Boston
don't like Marcus Smart? Are they nuts? Cutting loose? And

(38:02):
see how many teams in the NBA will take him? Now?
They might say, you know you're not gonna shoot these
crazy ass three said he has on on time ship.
Marcus Smart will win games for you, And uh, I
had a pro scout telling me that Marcus Smart. He
saw him one night in the game. Jalen Brown and

(38:22):
Marquis Morris and Tatum got in an argument and Smart
was in the game. He got off the bench and
threatened to whip all three of Them's asked right there,
he said, I'll whip all three you fucker's right here
in front of God and everybody. They said, I said,
what happened? He said, they got correct. You know, I
love Marcus Smart and you know we went to Oklahoma State.
But he those are the type of guys I mean

(38:44):
we talked about I talked about all the time with people.
It's like, you know, t J. McConnell, and and and
and Delhi and all these guys that are you know, undersized,
Like yeah, making the NBA unless you're a bad motherfucker,
unless you're thinking you have to be the absolute toughest dude,
you know, in two states if you want to make it,

(39:06):
and then I make it in the NBA making college.
Like you know, it's funny you mentioned J. J. McCollum.
Baron Davis is on one night and they asked him
about J. J. McCollum. They showed J P J. Yeah, Yeah,
there's a there's a J. J. And he here in
Maine who coaches in a hell, I can't separate the

(39:28):
two of them ones in Indiana. Is McConnell still in
Indiana or is he? Yeah, he just got hurt. He's
after the year. Yeah, well, you know he he picks
up full court, the only one he takes a charge
in back court. You know, he cuts off penetration forces,
the past forces of turnover, and Baron Davis says, I'm

(39:49):
not impressed with that. Anybody can do that well last
the damn point anybody can, but anybody won't well in
in all honesty and look, Baron Davis was probably the
most talented point guard out of Californian in the last
twenty five years. But the reason he's not in the
Hall of Fame, it's right there, you know, that's it. Hey,

(40:13):
I tweeted about that. I said, yeah, a lot of
people more ken, I don't think anybody can do that.
It's not that easy to take a charge garden a
guy full court. You know, you've got to make him
change direction. And uh, and there's you've got to have
good anticipatory skills, good footwork, and toughness. When people say

(40:33):
all it takes is you just gotta hustle to play defense,
that sells defense so short. That's not true, you know,
And and but I said, yeah, that's exactly the point.
T J mcconnlor is it j J again? Is it
t J or J t J, t J McDonald JJ bare?
But they might and they're they're different than the JJ's score,

(40:55):
But it's the same in that they're they're they're unbelievably tough,
and say and their will and their will is is
this greater than other people? That's it? That's that's the point.
People will pick an all star team and said, well,
I want Wilt chamber Lindon, I want Jordan's and I
want you know, and they'll pick five all stars. I say,

(41:17):
who in the hell is gonna give up shots? Who's
gonna run the team who's gonna get their ass back
on defense. Jason Tatum is so talented, but about a
third at the time, he every time he gets touched
or breathed on, he throws his arms up, runs at
the referee, beers off, and doesn't get back on defense

(41:37):
and they lay it in on the other round. Well,
that's my thing with with Jason Tatum is you know
he wants to be Kobe Bryant. Does he understand that
Kobe Bryant was a hardcore defender and the type of
tough competitor that that that the world has rarely seen.
Like just because you can get the ball and go
one on one and score and some of your moves

(41:58):
look like Kobe's moves, that ain't it. That's what's at
and that's his weakness. You know, he thinks he can
take You know, last night they got beat in the game.
They should have won. Hell, the Clippers don't have George
or don't have Kwai Leonard. And I love Kwai Leonard
when he's healthy. I used to argue, I thought he
was good a player if there wasn't the NBA, And

(42:21):
well he's a great two way player. I said, that's
why somebody said, Tom Brady is the greatest football player ever.
Really does he play a defense? In baseball and in
in basketball? You gotta play defense. Tom Brady might be
the greatest quarterback, although I don't think he's as talented
as is Rogers. But you can't take away how much

(42:43):
he's won. But to say he's better than Lawrence Taylor, please,
you know? I mean? He said, and people get upset. Well,
it's not good enough. He's named the greatest quarterback. He's
got to be the greatest player ever. Well, did his
pay grade go up another ten million because we can
say that about him? I don't know. I get I

(43:05):
get upset very easily. Sometimes I'll sign off. I set
this time for this grouchy old bitch to go to bed. Yet. Okay,
so how did Billy get you to leave? Being central?
Kind of had your own fief to him? Right? Yeah?
The last two years there, Tom Conchoski said, we had
the best prep school team ever ever. He said, because

(43:29):
we had talent, plus we played harder than everybody else.
I can't speak to that. We had great talent. I'll
let somebody else judge how hard we played. I know this,
those fuckers played harder. They didn't pledge, But anyway, he
billy talked, and I've been there ten years at m
c I. The first year I was there, Leonard Hamilton

(43:49):
brought me to Florida State. Or wasn't Miami Miami, I
guess it was. Yeah. And I got off the plane.
It was ninety degrees and at humidity at ten o'clock
at night, and I said, there's no way I can
live with the snow. We got three inches of snow
on the ground here in Maine from yesterday. But I
can live with that morning. I can extreme heat and humidity.

(44:10):
But anyway, I uh, I've been there ten years and
we hadn't had a wreck, and we're driving the bands,
and uh, we we lose at St. Thomas Morland. I'm
I'm doing a pretty good job of trying to convince
you I'm not quite all there. Well, we play at St.
Thomas More and we make one of our last five
free throws and they beat us by one. We drove

(44:31):
and I didn't feed them if we got beat at
m c I. They didn't need after the game. I
didn't give a damn. If we were New Orleans, we'd
drive back from there and we weren't ever in New Orleans.
I'd roll down the windows and turn the air conditioning on,
so I I think the same cold, and I didn't
need either, you know. And I'll tell you what they

(44:52):
learned to win games that they wouldn't have by not
feeding them after a loss, which you can't get away
with that and probably shouldn't, but no, I guess I
got to remove them. Probably you absolutely shouldn't all substitute
absolutely from for probably, but but I know this, those
kids tell me all the time. Mike Boyd went to
West Virginis a coach, we wont at least five games

(45:14):
we wouldn't have if we if we'd gotten need after
a loss, and that's WoT I didn't eat. So so
so how did Billy convince you to go to Vegas? Well,
I've been there ten years and we hadn't had a
wreck in the bands, and I'm driving the bands, and

(45:35):
you gotta understand, I probably drove him sixty two and
if we got beat which we you know, our records
two nine and twenty five, and we played the vast
majority of our games on the road, and we didn't
have the same officials. You know, you go to St.
Thomas More, you'd get to St. Thomas More officials, they
didn't reciprocate. They wouldn't play us at our place. And
I love Jerry Quinn. I think he should be in

(45:57):
the Hall of Fame. Great coach, great person. Couldn't stand him. Uh,
we coached together in Indiana, and I'm gonna I'm gonna
get back on what you said. He's ruining me. And
he comes in. He's got wide will chordreys on Birken
stops and some of those big gray socks with red tops.

(46:17):
Takes his pants off and he hasn't got any drawers on.
I said, my man, and I immediately started really liking him.
I love him today and we're very close. You know,
if you Tom Consolski, who's a saint, Tomkinschowski said, you know,
I would talk to him for a half hour, and

(46:39):
when I got through with him, I felt more whole
and more decent. And just by talking just through osmoses
of talking to him, Well, I got a good friend
in Kentucky and coach. He said, Well, if he makes
you feel more old, you need to call him every
half hour. He said, you could use that. But Billy,
you know we I was afraid we were gonna have
a wreck. Did be odd were against us chine because

(47:01):
I would drive ninety miles an hour back home. I'd
be so mad, you know, and they wouldn't talk. Hey,
we lost it. We played down at Fletcher Aerage Tournament.
We got beat at the butt. We had a kid
hit a shot to put us up for and and
he came in and the referees got together and they

(47:22):
came running, and I said, oh, this isn't gonna be
He said, coach, we got even with a bow before
hit the basket. They looked up at the scoreboard. Well,
hell so now all of a sudden we're up to
and he's shooting a free throw and he misses. And
they had a kid Dean that went to I want
to say North Carolina State or Virginia. He was harolding. Yeah,

(47:44):
he comes down, he charges, and then to keep him
stepping on our players steps over his knee. It's a three.
I went down and I put my fist through a
wooden door that was about three inch or thick. Broke
my hand. I broke my hand six times in ten
years at m c I, and that was the only
one we lost. I broke it five times in winds
in ten years. But I just I thought, well, you know,

(48:08):
I need to get out of here before we have
a wreck, and I cause it by my insane behavior.
You know, I'm certified, and I know it. You know
I don't have any problem with it. I don't know that.
I've let me coach one of my own kids, so
you know I can come to grips with that. When

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So so, uh, Billy said, So Billy convinced you. Hey,
you haven't had a wreck yet. Get out? He said,

(51:49):
you know you need to get out of there. Well,
why I loved him? C I I I mean, I
made the same amount of money the first years I
did than ten years later. And they did a seven
page story on us in Sports Illustrated was most flattering,
talking about how disciplined, how tough, how you know, study
halls they weren't allowed to act up or act to

(52:12):
fool or I'd walk around campus and step in the
rooms and I just you know, I had an Airdale
Terrier and Korn said, damn that door to open, need
step in, need say oh Jack, And I'd I'd say, hey,
if he gives you any trouble, you let me know.
I got the answer for that. It's a four o'clock
a m practice. And uh, and you know, I felt

(52:34):
like Boss Cartwright and what is it Bonanza or whatever
the show he was on. I was ahead of my
thief him. But I made the same amount of money
ten years later. I never got a race, and I
could care less about money. When I took over at
l m U and and and you know, they called

(52:55):
me in. They said, what do you want to do
about Sarah? I said, hell, you can cut me ten
thousand dollars. I didn't come here to be head coach.
Of course, my wife wasn't too happy about that, you know,
because I threw a lot of money away. But I
didn't care about that. But I went with Billy. And
of course he puts me in charge of fast break, offense,
defense and discipline discipline. I said, now, Billy, I'm all,

(53:20):
I'm all too well to you know. I'll be glad
to do that, but you know that really should come
from you. And Billy was the nicest guy. And he said,
I know how I was when I was their age,
and I just have a hard time justifying being this
hard on him, knowing how I was at their age,

(53:43):
and uh, but I I love Billy Beane and he
was a far better coach. And people realized, But whoever
heard of given assistant coach from a prep school, the discipline.
He let me listen to this story. Casper Scambala, who
I think you remember? He looked like the damn Russian

(54:04):
and Rocky He's aid, quatch. I heard you're pretty tough,
I said, Cast. I'm a fat, old white man, old
white man, he said, I'm not tough at all. I
hear if you're tough, and if you come, we will
sooner or later we will fight, I said, Cast. And
then if that happens, you'll whip my ass. But understand this,

(54:27):
sooner or later, you're gonna fall asleep. And when you do,
I'm gonna do. You have an ice pick and one
fucking ear, and the point's gonna come out the other
and you'll be eaten with a drool cup and in
a wheelchair the rest of your life. Well, Cast, they
put that in ESPN, the magazine. He told Mark Dickle.
He said, Mark, this man crazy. He's crazy, he said,

(54:50):
I think he means that. Well. We won one one time.
We we wanted uh Colorado State. No, we lost at
Colorado Stating in we went up and beat Wyoming and
when we got back, Billy said, anybody you know we'd
gather up before we got our study. Anybody got something
to say? I said, yeah, I got something to say,
and I threw my coat. Now I said, I'd like

(55:11):
to fight every one of you cocksuckers. I said, you
bitch made podcast. And there was Dave Callis was a
cop there, and some lady said she called special security.
She said there's some middle aged man. Well, god, I
want to kiss her for saying middle age is threatening

(55:33):
to fight the U n l V team. He said, no,
that's coach good and he's justified. And I said, Cass,
I want to start with you. You're the one I
want first. Right now, we'll go through the whole team. Well, hell,
I walked home from the airport to Thomas and Mack.
I had two bags. I'm walking down over the hill
with bowlers and the bus transport and the players is

(55:55):
they drive by and they're staring straight ahead. Will I
get there? Trevor Eiggs came in and dick on. They
said coach. I said, Fellas, I shouldn't have said that.
I was on the line. No, you weren't on the line.
If you care that much, I guess we should start.
And we won seven straight games and went to the
n C Double A after that. Now, I am not
trying to make a connection between the two. Maybe if

(56:18):
i'd have been a little more, you know, accepting, earlier
than that, we might have been on fifteen wins in
a row. But Billy came down and thanked me. He said, no, coach,
you you should have done that. You should have done that,
he said, although it's a good thing, we don't have
tape on it. You get arrested, probably get arrested. But

(56:38):
so so here's my here's my cast was gamebot by
the way Mark Dickle, I had last weekend. I took
my team in Vegas, but I had a game Saturday,
Colorado State against they play St. Mary's. So I had
actually flight at Denver Drive at four Collins, then flew back.
So I I was just gonna get coaching kids in

(56:59):
the morning and then fly and our we we got
our games with the afternoon. So Mark Dickle actually coached
for me, and and you want, some of the nicest
guy ever, and my kids loved him anyway. So but
but I told Dickle this story that my the year
before you got there. We're playing Vegas and as you

(57:21):
point out, Kevin Simmons was super talented. Uh. Brian Keith
his course coach in the NBA Sean Brian so um uh.
And so the game is it's a it's like five
minutes ago when we're up double double figures, it's a

(57:41):
wrap and we're at the free throw line and Casper
was like, well do you getting into tonight? And I
was like what, Like, I've never never had a conversation
with opponent ever over like what we're doing after the game? Now?
I was December and we had had a ms of
game at Craighton where we all you know, I wanted

(58:03):
to transfer. I didn't start the first half or the
second half, and I had fifteen assists and one turnover
and coach still brought me out the bench because I
was in the doghouse. And anyway, so he's like, what
did you What did you guys get into tonight? Were like,
what are you talking about? Like we go out, Okay,
We're going to the Circle bar at the hard Rock, right,

(58:25):
that's the only place we knew, so we met about
and we went out and we went and I and
I've never seen a college basketball player drink that much.
And but he was he was unbelievable, like he was.
He wanted he wanted to kill everybody when he played,
and then he'd hang out with you after the game.
And he did the same thing the next year we
beat you. It was like we go out tonight. They

(58:45):
were like, this guy is unbelievable. I wasn't if I
got if I got smoked on national TV. I'm going
out with anybody and hanging out with them, pretend like
you'd like each other. No fucking way, No, he he said, Coach,
we played by the rules here, I said. Cast The
fact you're saying that tells me we don't get the

(59:06):
funk out of here. I don't want to hear all
that bullishit. So you know I didn't look the other way.
But I just didn't get involved in that any way,
shape or form. I can't stand that. If you got to,
I just don't like it. And I'll tell you what.
I got so much respect for coach something I said,
Andrew Williams played for me, m C I who hell

(59:27):
up home the state and I called coach Sutton because
the judge was the assistant. And yeah, the judgement, for
people who don't know it is Paul Graham of course
wanted to be the head coach at Washington State, and
he was a high school coach in Dallas. I think
he retired this year. Last year. Paul's a jim. Anyway,

(59:49):
go ahead and see you're talking to Paul. You're talking
to coach. He talks me into taking Andrey Williams. And
the guy that helped him was the guy that was
helping the kids at Kansas. But anyway, so I'm Ray
comes and Andrew's blocking every damn shocked. And I had
Wesley Wilson on the team, a seven foot kid that
went to Georgetown, had a much bigger name. But Andrey

(01:00:10):
was much better player. I mean, he fit in way
better with our players. And uh, I called Paul Graham.
I said, Paul, you underrated this fucker. I said you
need to close your door. I said, this motherfucker blocks
everything that wiggles. He plays harder than shipped. I can't shoot,

(01:00:31):
but knows it and doesn't try to. I said, he
will be a bitch for y'all. Now you couldn't see anything,
oh exactly, And you know what. He had an s
a t of liket and a g p A of
about one point nine. Yeah, very right. Too bright, but

(01:00:53):
he you know, he uh he didn't do well in
school and he didn't care about it really. He just
you know, he wants he had he had, and he
had a really really terrible upbringing, tough up, but he
was he was the only here's here's something no one's
ever heard before. Okay, So we called him Andre Sutton.

(01:01:14):
And the reason we call him Andrea Sutton was that
kid was a freshman. We had seven seniors, and he
could get away with ship. None of us get We
don't understand, right, So it was so uh my senior year.
I'm sure you remember Jimmy Williams us another gem, right.
So Paul Leaves gets the head coaching job at Washington

(01:01:36):
State and Andre comes in anyway, and Jimmy Williams, the
son of John Williams, is our assistant coach and Jimmy's
great Now Jimmy is not. Paul was more negative and
would would He was the only guy, you know, he
the assistants with dog custy coach never cursed, and and

(01:01:57):
Jimmy was getting onto Andre. Andre turned him clear his
day and said, Jimmy sucked my dick, motherfucker, and he's
like suck my dick and we're like what, like, like, look,
I've done a lot of ships in my life. I
have never ever thought of telling a coach to suck

(01:02:18):
my dick ever like that, Like there's there's lots of
gray areas. Ship that is way over the like we
all and you know, it's like one of those all
of a sudden, you could hear a pin drop in Gallaghariva.
We're like, what is coach can do? And and coaches
made him go run the stairs and we're like then
he came back into practice and we're like we were

(01:02:40):
just like what the what do we just see? How
did that? How did that happen? How did he He
just told a coach the seconds dick, and all he
had to do is run the steps, Like, dude, I
want to do that. If I did that, I would
be I would I would just pack your ship, go
to California. We'll let you know if we need rite
that And that was it was unbelievable. So Dre and
I don't know is because of how tough his upbringing

(01:03:02):
was or how hard because we were hard on him too,
because that fucker couldn't catch, but he could really play
and and uh that was. That was Andre Williams. And
he again he was like he was like coaches Coach's
other son. You know. He had Sean, Steve Scott and Andre.
That's how we looked at him. Oh so that's that's

(01:03:25):
and he fucked up, and he funked up the Oklahoma game.
Co We had a nine point lead last game in
Old Galaghariba and Coach puts him in for me because
he thought they'd start fooling me because I couldn't shoot
free throws like Andre Cancreo free throws. And Andre he
dropped the ball like three times in a row, you know,
and he just sucked up. But man, he could block
some shots. He could catch and when when he caught

(01:03:45):
it he could dunk on he was he'd be great
in the dunker and if he worked on it. Once
he got once he got his eyes, I think he
got some new glasses because he had those when he
came in. He had those Kareem goggles and then he
and then he'd get mad at him and take him
and he couldn't see anything. He was like Mr McGoo um.
But once he got the eyesight, thing he was he

(01:04:06):
was a hell of a player. Really really. He comes
to practice one morning. Of course, now we had phones,
two phones in the hallway. This is before cell phones.
And if they rang after ten thirty, I told him
those phones we off book. I lived in the dorm.
I lived in the damned dorm with him, and other
people were bitching about having to live in a dorm there.

(01:04:28):
I said, hell, I'm fifty five and I'm thriving on it.
There's no way you could have coached those kids. I
had at him, said unless you were with him twenty
four hours. So the phone would ring after ten thirty,
I'll just get in the hallway and I'd say five thirty, fellas,
and we'd have a five thirty am practice. So he
comes down to practice one day and he's got blue jeans.

(01:04:49):
He said his stuff was wet, his practice gear was wet.
I said, motherfucker, we're playing tomorrow, and you're not playing
unless you practice. He had or dop shoes on. He
took his blue jeans. I pulled him up and pinned
him and proceeded to block about six shots in a row.
But Andre would come in my room. See I'd cuss

(01:05:12):
him in practice, but I'd cuss him in games. But
then at night he'd come in my room because he
has to be in bed at ten thirty. He'd come
in there in about eleven. I'd say, now, Andre, you
get your long goofy has to funk up and get
out of here. You ain't standing in here. He was
just trying to stay up. See he was find a
way to beat uh. And I loved him. You know,

(01:05:34):
he was like a hound dog. You didn't know other
scratching behind his ears or kick him in his asks,
but you know he was. He started one time to
say something back to me because I went on a
dialogue or a monologue. It wasn't a dialogue. For about
a minute and a half he got ready to say
something back for Rome, Butler reached around him and cupped
his hand over his mouth and and you know, so

(01:05:57):
he wouldn't say anything. And see, Karen had great leadership.
And his story is incredible. You know, he was the
rest of fifteen times by the time he's fifteen years old. Ever,
oh well, he wasn't on him, but he sold him.
He got caught with a Magnum three fifty seven and
you know, a bunch of cocaine and twenty thousand dollars

(01:06:19):
in his pocket. There was a cop there in in
Racine that really liked him because he was amazingly honest
and open. He and I when he called he called
me three times and never called collect and that was
very unusual. Now, I snuck him into the m C.
I if they had known him from through passed, they

(01:06:39):
wouldn't have let him in. And I told I told
the admissions person, I said, I'll take the heat for this. Well,
I knew they weren't getting rid of me. We'd won
two hundred ninety games and lost what was what was Karen? Like?
How did you? How did how did he straighten it out?
Because now he's you know, coaching, he's one of the
most respected for players in the NBA. Like you say,
you know, tough use you never have a problem, not

(01:07:02):
one problem with him. Now listen. I picked him up
at the airport. I said to you, butler, and he
said yeah. I said, how many bags you've got, boy?
He said four. I said, good, that'll take you two trips.
And I went back out on the van. Well, he
comes out, he takes two trips. I didn't offer to
help him. He starts to get in the front seat,
and I got a Nardale terrier named Gentry. I named

(01:07:25):
him after Steve Gentry, who was an unbelievable defender. Xavier
He who's the kid that played at Indiana, the left
hand kid six seven Brian Evans. No, no, he was
a black kid. He was. He played. He played for
my dad from from Miami. I think he made Charlie
Miller Charlie Miller. No, no, Charlie Miller went to UH

(01:07:48):
He was from Miami. But I think he played at Kentucky. No,
Charlie Miller was in Maysville, Kentucky. They did have a kid,
Charlie Miller from Maysville. That's why Tom loved to call
me Tom Controls. You would call me. We talked for
two hours because I was the only guy that he
could talk to about the Ricketts boys and and say

(01:08:08):
Hugo Green at New Game, you know, because I was
such a nerd, and you know, I can't remember my
own name. I had a bit of a Tom getting
in this thing today. In fact, I couldn't know. If
my wife hadn't been here, I wouldn't be in it.
And probably you're thinking, well, I wish he hadn't got
you in it. But no, this is this is, this
is amazing. Hey, we're going to Calbuccini, Calbuccini. Calbert Chaney.

(01:08:34):
Steve Steve Gentry held him to three for nineteen and
Bobby Knight told him he's the best defender he ever
he ever had seen. He was the coach of Santa Herb.
Sunday goes to Miami and he calls me, said, if
you've got any more Steve Gentry's, I want all of them.
He said, he took three charges in the backcourt Zigzagon.

(01:08:58):
You know people he was so good, tough defensively. But anyway,
so Karen comes and he gets in the back seat
and we're driving. He sees, uh, there's a wendy's and
he says it was a McDonald's. I got into a
nice event last year and he came all the way
from California to present me. He told his story and Uh,

(01:09:21):
in case anybody thinks it's apocryphal or if it isn't
the truth, he says, uh, I said to you hungry boy.
And everybody's dropping their head because you know I called
black kids boy all the time. It's a b o
I boy, you know, and hell, not one of them
has ever said a thing about it? And the more

(01:09:41):
I cust him out, the more they respect him. Like it.
But anyway, I said, I'm not talking to you, motherfucker.
I'm talking to my dog. And I didn't feed it.
I didn't feed him. We get them, see I, and
we're driving down. He said, doesn't look like there's must
to do here. We flew into bangor me. All he
can see is a silhouette of the pine trees in
the dark. It doesn't seem like there's much to do.

(01:10:04):
I pulled that van over. I said, motherfucker, you want
to go back to a scene where you had everything
in the world to do and got absolutely nothing done. No, no,
I said, Well shut the funk up. We get there
and we call a practice for eleven thirty at night.
I get him out of the dorm. I ran the
dorm and he said, why we practicing to night? I said,
because if I don't like the way you will play,

(01:10:25):
your ass is going right back to a scene tomorrow morning.
I'll have you on the first flight the first thing
smoking out of here tomorrow morning. Well, needless to say,
he he was pretty good. He was really good, but
very much a team player. Very much a team. No,
you don't. You listen, you don't have to sell me
on the players. It's really amazing. Like he's a remarkable

(01:10:49):
story and a remarkable guy who does not fit any
bill for what you would think considering what his background
was before that moment. He's very decent. You know, I
think in his heart he's he's thinking about running for
governor someday. At Wisconsin, he told me Boogie he was
with Boogie Cousins and Sacramento. He was kind of brought into,

(01:11:12):
you know, to kind of mentor him. He called me,
he said, Coach, he's too much for me. He needed
you because see I threatened to fight him. They're not
gonna fight me. Goddamn. If you threatened to fight the
whole team, they're not going to do it. Although a
couple of times I think they kind of thought about it.
But no, he said Boogie Cousins, he said he needed

(01:11:32):
you badly. But anyway, I go to U n l V.
With Billy and then I've been all over Hell since then.
I've never applied for any job I've ever gotten. Every
job I've gotten, they've reached out to me. Now I
end up in Pratt junior college and Pratt Kansas and
uh Brad Miller is on a podcast a couple of

(01:11:55):
weeks ago. He said, oh, no, coach goods coaching at
some n ai A DIVI into junior college and who nail. No,
he just likes to coach. He doesn't care about money
and he just like he said, what he likes to
do is get somewhere where he can cuss people out.
And they said, well on the podcast, he said, oh no,
on on on You couldn't have him on the poast,

(01:12:17):
he said. He calls me a couple of weeks ago
at three thirty in the morning and I heard him
say I picked up the phone. He said, I told
you to answer. I told you this crazy sombit and answer.
I said, what the fund do you want? He said, coach,
I want you to know I didn't like you very much.
When I said m C. I I said, well, good,
because I didn't like your ass at all. And then

(01:12:39):
he said, but I didn't want to tell you this.
I don't think I would have played at Perdu and
I know I wouldn't have played in the NBA if
I hadn't spent that year at m C. I said, good,
if you get a sportswriter there wherever you are, good,
call let motherfucker and tell him I'm going back to
midnight on the phone. And I don't even sleep at night.
I don't even sleep at night. I got serious. If

(01:13:01):
you haven't figured that out already. But I love Brad Miller.
God damn. He looks like Chris Stapleton. Now he's got
a hair half the way down his back. And he
caught he during the All Star break. He comes to
a game at UNLB and I had him talked to
our team after the game and he starts, does he
get mad to spit all over you because he broke

(01:13:22):
his hand yet and sling blood all over you? I said, Brad, Brad, Brad, No,
I want you to come in here and talk about
the virtue of hard work, and this funk hard work.
He said. They tried to get me to come in
the summer and work. I went in there one day
and made twenty six out of thirty three. He said,
get those non shooting guards ass in here and teach
them out. It's stood. I don't need this yet. Oh

(01:13:43):
he was a stubborn, stubborn, But you talk about a
guy that had basketball like you. He was a six
one guard and Indiana grew to be six nine between
his sophomore and junior year. But oh, I love Brad Miller.
Now he was a patent at for tougher. Now to
thank you, thank you? Yeah, him and him and m

(01:14:05):
and Brian Cardinal, those those two guys, I mean, hey,
I had Chad Austin and Chad Austin said they'd play
Michigan and who is a tractor truck trailer would come
out there and he'd start talking smack. They'd be on
the produced side of mid court, stretching, you know, just
to get in their way. Cardinal said, hey, fat boy,

(01:14:25):
get your asked to funk across that line and he said,
I'm gonna kill you tonight. He said, you big, stupid sucker.
He said, I'll take three charges on you before halftime.
You won't get shipped done, And sure enough it would happen.
He's talked more shipped to these you know, multitalented players.
But taking charges and being tough, those are skills. Coachability

(01:14:48):
is a skill. There's nothing worse than a talented player
without toughness to meet or useless useless. I don't think
you can win with them. I don't think when when on,
you just get frustrated, try and thinking, well, sooner or
later they're going to figure this out. Sometimes they do,
but most of the time they don't because everybody's kissed

(01:15:09):
their ass from their inception period. The first time they
made it right and looked down, lay up everybody's you know,
sucking their dead and tell them how wonderful they are. Correct.
It couldn't have said any better. Um, I want to
do this. I want to do this again. I want
to end this is part one. Can I call you?
We do it again one morning next week. Oh that's

(01:15:31):
fine if you're hey, if you're people that follow you,
don't call in and say, don't have that stupid ignorant
hill billy back on here. I wear my ship with
it with honor. I know the type of these are
all our type of people that are driving around. I
can't say how many assistant coaches I have that they're

(01:15:53):
out recruiting and they listen to the pod and they
just this is what they want. Stories, they want basketball guys.
I was on Zone once with Arnold he will you
was at St. Joe's and they have like twenty coaches
on there. I'll tell you I'm really close with this. Uh.
You know Mike Procopio. You worked with Dallas, he was
a worker. I know him, I don't. I don't know him.

(01:16:14):
I know up you ought to get him on. You
talked about crazy. I get down to watch Dallas play
one night, and You're gonna have to cut me off
because I'll keep talking even when you disappear. I get
down there and dirt and wits. He comes over, he said, hey,
Pro they called him Pro for Procope said, I bet
I can hit him threes in a row from this corner.
He said, I don't give a fuck. Few makeup thousand

(01:16:34):
in a row. You can't run up and down the
floor three times without your knees buckling and you break
in your leg. He said, they got a time you
with a sucking egg timer. Well, then Brea comes over,
he said, Pro, I bet I can swiss five in
a row. He said, hey, Midget, the fucking midget leaks
three doors down. That's how. That's how Sweets talked to him,
And oh god, damn, I love him. He's crazy. Almost

(01:16:57):
everybody I associate with this crazy. Well, then I would
like to associate with you. That's that's that's that's what people.
I had day story real quick. So last so I'm
coaching last year and I get my code vaccine and
we're playing a team I had. They were seventh graders

(01:17:19):
at the time, and there's one team that we just
couldn't fucking beat. Our kids just got so mental against them,
and we're leading the whole game, and then you know,
we take help bat shots. It's like six and like
bang bang to no calls when on our end and
at the other end it's like touch fouls and it

(01:17:41):
gets to ten and then we turn it over and
gets the third team, and I just lose my ship
on this official because you know, it's like AU tournament,
the guys not making a past half court and it's
literally two different games. You know, that's the frustrat Like
at one end, it's tightly officiated. You know, when when
we're on defense and we're playing man, they're playing the

(01:18:03):
zone while the fund you're to teach and thirteen year
olds to play zone. I'm not sure I had. They're
playing zone and it shouldn't be should That's terrible of course.
So so anyway, so I turned, I turned, and I
just motherfucked Are you fucking kidding me? You're gonna call
that fucking value? Didn't make it past fucking half fucking court?

(01:18:23):
Am I asking that much for a game? You should
get your fucking ask pass half court and at least
take it. Thank you for these kids, right, So what
part of it is? I had that vaccine the night before,
the day before, and I couldn't sleep. I had a
steering headache, and I just lost my ship. And I
motherfucked this guy up and down. He calls two technical
fouls whatever, and I refused to you know, you get

(01:18:45):
a technical falu, you're supposed to sit down, and I'm
not fucking sitting down, right, So we get down with
the game and I go up to the guy and
I go, look, man, I apologize. I just lost my ship.
You know, we we haven't beaten this team. We should
have beaten him. I didn't think they were two particularly
good calls. But it's like we're all the same, right,
we like in the moment, we're crazy as fuck, and

(01:19:06):
we we have a point that we're trying to make,
and it's the right point. Just with you gotta have
that crazy dream. And I think some of that crazy
genie is really good in in sports one gym's are
allowed to You gotta break through to the kids. The
kids you say, pretty please, pretty please, they just don't
do it. They just don't. No one's ever done that
where you go, hey please, pretty please? Right? So, um so,

(01:19:31):
I I completely understand the idea of being seen as crazy.
Not crazy, but you got that crazy gene that or
that switch that you'll flip, that'll be crazy. Every one
song belly Han belly Han always says every coach and
after a certain amount of dribbles, and it varies from
coach to coach, they totally lose their mind. He said,
I just want you to know, for you it was

(01:19:53):
long to funk abo. I said, you're a good one
to talk and see. I never got on fishers. Now
this is gonna be my last story. I'm gonna take
it off off. I got Katina Mobili who was a
still playing his ass off in that Big Three. Well
he plays, he comes down. I never got on officials

(01:20:15):
at m c I. They already thought they weren't capable
of making a mistake. They had no ability to be
critical of themselves. So he comes down and they call
a walk. Well, he puts the ball on his hip
and does a three sixty and lands on his feet. No, no, no, motherfucker,
get the funk out of my game. I said, you

(01:20:35):
don't want to be a basketball player, you want to
be a thespian. So after the game he said, coach,
you can call me all the copsuckers and motherfucker's you want.
I ain't no fucking lesbian. Hey and Katina will tell
you that. And with that I'll sign I hope you're

(01:21:00):
them on the air. We'll still we'll we'll we'll still
be on the air. Actually the best. We'll do part
two soon, thank you. Okay, if you thought that was
not safe for work, there were some things that were
edited out right, but generally that's an unedited form of

(01:21:21):
of Max Good. That's part one. He's promised to join me.
He's like, I'm not going anywhere. He's probably to enjoin me.
For part two, we'll have Steve Lapps. If you didn't
listen to part one, that was awesome, Well Steve Laps
part two next week. I can't tell you how much
I appreciate you listening. Remember the download, subscribe, rate, writer review,
all those things help us out help us get you
better content, and I think it will make me a

(01:21:41):
little bit more money. In the meantime, enjoy the hoops,
good ones. This weekend, we'll talk some Lakers why they're
a mess. We'll just try and put together the real
tears in college basketball. Some of the storylines, like I
want to talk about why the Pack twelve I believe
starts off so far down this year will end up
being is fine, although it will be judged a stuff

(01:22:02):
such once they get to March. We'll get to all
that in an upcoming episode. In the meantime, thanks to
Max Good and for you for listening. I hope you
enjoyed that. I sure did. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is
all ball, okay, all ball community. I'm about to make

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All Ball - Pt. 1 Former Loyola Marymount HC Max Good on Building MCI Prep Power, Coaching Future NBA Players, MJ/LeBron Debate

Episode Transcript

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Doug Gottlieb

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}All Ball - Pt. 1 Former Loyola Marymount HC Max Good on Building MCI Prep Power, Coaching Future NBA Players, MJ/LeBron Debate