ALL BALL - Pt.1 - Daniel Poneman, George Hemmingsen & Brandon Globe - Weave Basketball

Doug is joined by Daniel Poneman, George Hemmingsen and Brandon Globe of Weave Basketball, a player representation and consulting group focused on NIL, showcases and connecting athletes to opportunities. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, what up? Welcome ed. This is all ball, all ball,
all the time.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
My guests today.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
My guests today are Dan Panneman, who's a prominent agent
in college basketball. He's huge in the NIL space, right
and he's hired so many people under him that are really, really,
really talented. Uh he Brandon Goebel. They're gonna join me
here on the pod in a second, but before I

(00:38):
get to that, before I get to h And also
I think George Hemingson is going to join us as well.
So Dan Poneman, who's the CEO of The Weave, George Hemingson,
who's a former D three coach one of his agents
with the Weave, and Brandon Goebel, who juco advocate. Everybody
knows Gooble in the college basketball space. They can enjoy

(01:01):
me in a second. So I'm headed into year two
and I want to talk about my team and get
introduced to my team, induced to my coaches, and I'm
gonna take you through the process on how we built
a college basketball team. I just thought that would be interesting. Yeah,
we're still gonna have our interesting conversations whatever, but I
want to take you to the process. So obviously, last
year was was super disappointing. I thought we could, if

(01:26):
we could have gotten everybody healthy, had it all together.
Were minimum of Midpac team in the Horizon League. Schedule
was too hard and you know, you lose Anthony Roy
for the year with a broken ankle ten games in,
and this is kind of what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
We weren't able to add.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
We pulled off the first of its kind mid season acquisition,
getting Yonatan Levy in, but he wasn't in shape, he
wasn't healthy, and he never got in shape, never got
healthy because he pulled a hip flexure, he got a concussion,
he had the flu, he had strap, you name it.
It happened to Yonatan Levy. But with that we learned.

(02:03):
We learned a ton, and we haven't been able to
fix the schedule to our liking. But we had to
fix the personnel, and we have made some staff changes.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
So let me get to the personnel.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
What you'll hear in this interview is, though I'm close
with Dan Pottterman and everybody to weave. Though I know
all these agents worldwide and nationally, we only have two
players of our ten new ones, of our sixteen players,
two have agents. Only two and those two who have

(02:38):
agents are both foreign players, so you kind of need
them in terms of amateurism and making sure everything gets
done smoothly. So there's a there's a world where we're
gonna I'm gonna show you babies, basically both worlds in
this podcast, the world of having an agent and having
Dan's the biggest ANIL agent in the country, not just

(03:00):
in terms of numbers, but in prominence for our level.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
I mean, he's got so many guys.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Many of the guys are above our level as well,
but the point is that he's prominent, and you're going
to hear his perspective. I would share some of that perspective.
It's a great discussion, but I would also share with
you that we don't have agents. Now it's not that
every guy that has an agent is entitled, but there
are some. It's not that every guy who has an
agent tax on twenty percent because that's what they're paying

(03:27):
the agent, But that's some whatever the logic behind it,
and some of it we did seek. We don't really
have players with agents. On the other hand, it's still
I still have a great relationship with Dan because I
haven't had any of his players, but I would have
a good relationship with Dan if I did, because the

(03:47):
one thing we try and do is every penny that
we say you're going to get, we make sure that
you get. It's a there's different, unique ways of doing business.
I'm going to teach you how we do it here
and you can watch our team and see if it works.
In the meantime, let's get to a discussion. Here's Dan Paraman,
George Hevingson, and Brandon Goebel and myself as we get

(04:12):
to our first part of a two part discussion in
All Ball. All right, guys, let's uh, let's let's dive
on in. George, you're you're new to the show and
you're kind of new to this.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Brandon you're not. DP you're not as as well.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
But let's just start with before we get to all
the stuff that you guys are doing. Okay, DP, how
many athletes? How many basketball players did you have this
year with we've.

Speaker 5 (04:41):
Well, first off, I'll say you said, I'm not new
to the show. I like to consider myself a regular
at this point. This is I'm I'm a part of
the show. I love this show. I'm excited, excited to
be here and so excited to have my buddies with
me this time. How many players do we have on
the portal this year, you know, as anybody a politician
would do. I'll give you a non answer to that answer.

(05:02):
You know, there's a difference between clients and guys were helping, right,
which we'll discuss today about our undiscovered camps these things.
There's clients people are signed to the company who were
helping them get paid a lot of money. And then
there's a ton of players that we just help, who
we don't sign, who aren't clients. We're just trying to
get their foot in the door, get them into college basketball,
help them.

Speaker 6 (05:19):
Get a juke ablem, get the D two.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
Our company or our greater you know group, our conglomerate
probably placed two hundred and fifty three hundred guys this year,
but I would say, you know, less than half of
them are clients.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
But okay, so how does that compare to last year?

Speaker 5 (05:39):
I would they probably double, probably probably doubled, and we
did double the amount of dollars we did in the
portal as well. And you know a huge part of
that was last year, last time you had me on,
I was kind of somewhat of a lone ranger. I had,
you know, a few support staff, but this year I
built the team with some really incredible people like George here,
and having a really good member of our team who

(06:00):
are used to handling recruitments, used to guiding players careers,
gave us a capacity to take on you know, more,
more more clients.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Brandon, what would you say was the difference in this
year's basketball portal to last year's basketball portal?

Speaker 7 (06:20):
I mean, it's it's definitely one of those situations where
like everybody before was kind of wondering, what is this,
what's it going to lead to? What's it mean for
me as a player? Uh, financially in every sense of
the term, right, And then this year it was like, well,
everybody's heard about it, everybody knows about it, everybody's.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Talking about it.

Speaker 7 (06:42):
That's got positives and negatives to it, right with players
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
But you know, the portal just.

Speaker 7 (06:48):
Really kind of became this, this truly free market that
now exists, and it just it exploded.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
There was this there was a time and joy.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Maybe you can speak to this and all you guys can,
but the this was a unique year because the settlement
hadn't been agreed to when the portal opened, but there
was like the definitive timeline of hey, you got to
get things done by June, and so there was sort
of a couple of that was like the first sort

(07:22):
of gold rush.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
Is that is that fair, George?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
That that was like the first gold rush was early portal,
trying to get these high level transfers in before the
settlement took effect.

Speaker 6 (07:34):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 8 (07:35):
That was that was the main goal that even you know,
to Daniel and Brandon's credit, that was something we were
looking at early before the portal even opened, where we're
always trying to get ahead, and so we vote really
took a heavy focus on that to get our guys,
you know, all settled before once that portaled opened, boom.

Speaker 6 (07:52):
They were signed, delivered.

Speaker 8 (07:53):
You know, we had our team looking through the agreements,
but that was a main priority, you know, right after
Christmas that Daniel and you know brought to the table
and that was our main focus that DP said, hey,
we're going to get these guys done before this we
know what's coming down the road.

Speaker 6 (08:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
And to George's point, like and to Georgia and Brettan's point,
like with each year of the portal and anil or rupture,
whatever you want to call it. You know, there's a
learning curve and people can know what last year's rules
were and how last year worked, but if you apply
it last year's strategies, so this year's it's not going
to work because every year it's been such drastic changes. Right,

(08:27):
So going into the portal this year, we knew how
settlement's coming. What are all of the different implications of that,
you know, what are the different deadlines and how are
schools going to react to this uncertainty? And we had
a bunch of group meetings preparing for that ahead of time.
There was the June first deadline where a lot of
schools tried to frontload deals because once that how settlement
passed if it had been June first, as you hear,

(08:49):
I think before that it was like April seventh, and
then it was this and ended up being, you know,
June first.

Speaker 6 (08:54):
Schools were trying to strategize to get.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
Money out before the repshare started, right, and then now
with this salary cap, right, I even calls every single
day from coaches, what does this mean? Are they going
to stick to the cap? How does this affect us,
you know, conference to conference. If we're at a football school,
how do we compete against schools without football who can
spend more? So now our job going into next year's portal,
and even right now as we're dealing with JUCO kids
in high school players, it's understanding how the rules affect

(09:18):
the marketplace and understanding how schools are going to react
to those rules and keeping our clients and our strategies
informed by them.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
P Do you guys, do you guys have anybody Because
I know one player who honestly, right now where he
is I would have taken okay, but he was asking
for too much money for too long, and he's still
without his school and we're we're in the in the
mid September. Do you guys have anyone like that?

Speaker 6 (09:48):
Not not at our clients, we know about guys like that.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
It's it's crazy though, right like, this is a good
basketball player.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
He's good, Doug.

Speaker 7 (10:00):
I think the bigger where we see that for sure
in this space is there are a lot of agents.
There are a lot of advisors and things that don't
know what they're doing, that are new to the space
in general, right like new to college basketball, new to
helping kids, let alone new to the agent side of things, right,
and then that same thing with the overseas players. A

(10:21):
lot of the European agents that don't understand the college space,
the timing, the reality of the markets, things like that.
So we definitely do see some players that are still
floating around out there. And the kids got their hands
up going like, I don't understand what just happened. They said, well,
you listen, you listen to the wrong guy for the
last six months and now school started.

Speaker 6 (10:38):
Man.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
Yeah, to Brandon's point, like, it hasn't happened with our guys.
But we've two examples of situations. I've seen that there
is a player at one point we were talking two
potentially going to sign, and he said, well, this other
agent told me he's going to get me a million
dollars and I basically said, well, if you're worth of
a million, will certainly get you that, but I can't
promise that with the agent who has promised him a million. Well,

(11:02):
now that agents go into all these schools saying we
want a million dollars without having context of the market
or their budgets or you know, comparable players in that category,
and the player went months without getting a deal and
presumably got a lot less because that agent was trying
to fulfill empty promise and priced him out of the market.

Speaker 6 (11:21):
Right, So that's not practice. But I think what we have.

Speaker 5 (11:23):
Seen on the European end is there are sometimes high
floors for European guys because they have buyouts with their
European clubs. Sure, so if the guys buyouts two hundred thousand,
well you need at least two hundred and one for
it to make sense. But if he's one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars player, he's going to be sitting in
that market for a long time. Yeah, And just to
piggyback off that, I think even with Brandon and what
Jamie was saying is like, I think that's one of

(11:43):
our main focuses going into this year's educating our European clients,
educating everybody that would like that we are going to
represent about the value you know, why this is where
we're going to see you, rather than getting a number
stuck in your head or being told that and then
we're fighting being that person because they think that's their
value when they haven't been educated on this process. So

(12:05):
I think that's a really key component that Daniel Brenda
have done a good job for many years. But one
of our main focuses, especially with International, is educating everybody
on this process where they land and where the fit
value is for them.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
There's there's a bunch of interesting aspects I want to
get to you guys with. The first thing is the
International Highlight Film. It's my favorite thing, right, it's we
have we have like a running joke and we had
a couple of guys who whether it was George, you
sent me one and again for full disclosure.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
For everybody, here's what's cool about you guys.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
At the weak right, and and and Brandon you as well,
is I like and respect you guys.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
We don't have any of your clients.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
That's the crazy part is like there's there's an assumption
out there like, well, you're getting having them on because
you're getting weave guys, Like, no, that's not how it works,
right if the relationship, if the dollars and like George knows,
I wore him out about one player, one fucking dude
that I wanted really really badly, And you know, to
this point, I'm still probably like, ah, I was trying

(13:11):
to be so disciplined in my budgeting that I probably
and look, I was a hard sale because we hadn't
won and you know, we played against.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
The kid, so I get it.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
But the point is that I think the ultimate relationship,
you know, and I tell this to guys we recruit,
like coaches will tell you they we want to have
a relationship with you, and then you choose another school
and they're like fuck you, Like that's not a relationship, right,
that's relationship can't be so like BG, but you sent
guys to me and Brandon, you sent guys to me
and we haven't been able to make it work.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
It doesn't stop us from having a relationship, right Again.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's it's really important to note that there's no wink wink,
nod nod. Uh? Was it quid pro quo in having
you guys on in any way?

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (14:00):
That said, Okay, let's get to a couple of different
elements which are fastating.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
Brandon.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Let's start with you. I know obviously you're big overseas
as well. I want to get to overseas. Let's start
with Juco because we landed three Juco players and I
think it's probably the least discussed part of the portal, right,
because the high school kids' predicament is talked about a lot,
because it's a real thing. I think the international thing

(14:27):
is new and kind of a gold Rushiet type deal.
And obviously the high level transfer portal guy is interesting.
But junior college, which as you told me when I
got the job, and it did, like just so you understand,
like it takes a while to really evaluate who you are,
what you are and what's really.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
Going on in the market.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
But as you told me, junior college is very different
than it used to be, or at least perception used
to be. Right, Junior college used to be for all
the fuck ups, Right, dudes that you knew what's cools
they could get into and couldn't survive at or whatever
you got Dennis Rodman on there, right. I mean, I
don't know if Larry Johnson was a fuck up, but
like they were going to Fresnow, they were going to

(15:10):
Long Beach State, they were going to you know, the
Lamar's of the world that you were finding guys that
that couldn't didn't want to do the job academically, had
massive issues, whereas now there's some of that don't get
me wrong.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Here's some dudes with issues.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
There's also guys that were not really discovered because the
high school recruiting process from covid On has been completely
boo barred. There's guys that think they're protecting a year
now because nobody knows how many years of eligibility you
actually get where they go there and they had out.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
There's guys that have gotten better, right.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Or there's guys that realize, hey, I'm not going to
play as a freshman in college, so let me go
to a junior college.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
I actually play at kind of a between level.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
So Brandon, my assessment of junior college basketball is this,
It very much depends on the program as much as
the kid when you recruit, right, because every program is
run very differently, as well as the level of junior
college program. Right, certain levels of junior college program are
really really talented.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
Certain are really not. So you have to know the levels.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
But I feel like.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Most of the high level mid majors to high majors,
with one or two exceptions, they're like, we'll get to you,
and we get to you. They recruit them, they evaluate them,
they think they're an option, but once the portal opens
everybody loses their mind and they want guys that play
Division one basketball is do you believe that's the case
from this year in the portal?

Speaker 7 (16:42):
Yeah, So if JUCO has gone through this evolution in
the last twenty years to where it is now after
the portal, where you know there used to be thirty
high major guys at least, right you would see these
you know, these big time programs would recruit these high
level players. There are far fewer available for the highest levels.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Right.

Speaker 7 (17:07):
There's probably three guys right now that have real serious
high major offers for the fall, and that's about it
right now. There might be one or two more, but
I mean then we're talking like five guys, right and
there might be another five by the end of the year.
But where I do think it has changed is that
kind of middle ground. I think there's better players available
now than maybe ever in that middle section. And a

(17:31):
lot of that has to do with the high school
kids have nowhere to go, right So a high school
kid that maybe would have gone to a good low
major early on and developed and then maybe transferred up,
now they're happened to go Juco. We're seeing it with
the international kids, you know, we brought over an international
player that five years ago i'd had no problemly easy
to get you twenty Division one offers. Now he's in

(17:51):
junior college for a year and he's going to wind
up with twenty Division one offers from there. But he's
taking that extra step. It's improving the quality of junior
college basketball. It's opening a lot of people's eyes to
the process. And I think personally, at the end of
the day, you're going to just see, you know, Juco's

(18:12):
is a different thing, right You got to you gotta
be able to survive some stuff to get through JUCO.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
I think you're going to.

Speaker 7 (18:17):
See kind of some of that play outs they move
on to the Division one level and stuff, just kids
that are better prepared to be successful at the Division
IE level. And like you said, the quality, character, academics,
all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Most of the IVY league recruits JUCO.

Speaker 6 (18:33):
These days.

Speaker 7 (18:34):
There's only a few IVY leagues that don't recruit it
at all, but the rest of them do, you know,
And I think that just speaks to the change.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, i'd also say that, And maybe I don't know.
If you guys like DP, this is a question probably
for you is what's the percentage of guys where you
feel like there's.

Speaker 6 (19:03):
You broke up for a second?

Speaker 1 (19:04):
One? What we landed about are you broke up for
a second?

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Sorry? What what is the percent No?

Speaker 3 (19:10):
I know, what is the percentage of guys where you
feel like there's a level of entitlement there? I bring
it up because they don't almos show it right away,
But Brandon, you and I know of a guy who
I had last year.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Who like.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Just the way he sees the world is like everybody
owes him something right, and we I really felt like
I wanted my program to have guys that we're hungry.
You know again, I'm not saying there's not a pot
of gold out there for you, but you ain't there yet,
and it ain't there for me yet, and it ain't

(19:50):
there for you yet. So I'm just I guess I'm
wondering dan in now, when all these huge numbers.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Are being thrown around.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Them landing, how do you evaluate a client as to
I want to I want to work with this guy.
Do you care if a kid comes across entitled? I
guess this is my question.

Speaker 5 (20:11):
One hundred percent, And I think I'm happy you asked
that I think that is a secret to our success.
It's not just who we say yes too, but almost
more importantly who we say no to, right, because you
could take way.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
Can you guys say no to guys? You guys turn
down turndown clients.

Speaker 6 (20:24):
All the time.

Speaker 5 (20:25):
I tell my staff all the time, eighty percent of
your problems come from twenty percent of your clients. If
we avoid the twenty percent, we're going to be much
more successful. Because I've seen that through my decades in
this business. It's guys who outsize expectations, outsized entitlement, and
then even if you do a great job form they
expected you to do better and they're not appreciative. We
like working with people, We like to work with and

(20:47):
like attracts like I put together a team of underdogs.
You know, Brandon, though he's not, you know, technically a
member of our team, he has his own business. Me
and him started from the mud. George coached you know,
the Division two and D three in Juco basketball. We
have a team of underdogs who are humble servants and
we filter, you know, people Sometimes we get on a
zoom and they think we're pitching them, we're kind of

(21:08):
evaluating them. It's dating. Are you right for us? And
that are you know we represent? I think the stat
last year's twenty percent of starters at the high major level.
I think we only had one five star in our
entire group of clients. And that's not like we by
design like, oh we say no to five stars. It's
just we recruit you know, humble people, high character people,

(21:30):
and sometimes the American AAU system.

Speaker 6 (21:34):
Doesn't produce that doesn't type of guys we look for.

Speaker 5 (21:38):
We love Juco kids, we love international kids. We love
and part of it is we're willing to do the
legwork to get guys there. Instead of going to the
Peach Jam and competing with ten other agencies to sign
you know, one five star kid who's going to be entitled,
We'd rather go to the corners of the earth and
find somebody that no one's ever heard of, or find
a kid in Juco that's maybe a few years away,
but is willing to do the work and willing to

(21:58):
brind with us.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
And uh, you know.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
I've had multiple guys drafted the last few years. None
of them were five stars. Are four stars right? We'd
like to take the long road and work with guys
and I have certain secrets which we can share on
maybe another day, but at risk of running too long.
What things we specifically look for for guys who're going
to achieve what qualities?

Speaker 9 (22:19):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Perfect perfect Thing? What do you look? Can I tell
you what we look for?

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (22:33):
So as you guys know, I signed a D two kid, hey,
Rob Stroud, who was at Lewis University.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Three years at Kanicky Kennona Key, and then I got it?

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Did I?

Speaker 4 (22:46):
Did I get the second time? Time?

Speaker 2 (22:47):
You got?

Speaker 6 (22:47):
Second time? You got? Second time?

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Cannon Cannicaki?

Speaker 2 (22:54):
What is it?

Speaker 6 (22:55):
Go ahead?

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Y kank kokikanky Key?

Speaker 4 (23:01):
All right? I got it, kanky Key all right? Three
years at kanky Key, two years at Lewis.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Right now, there's a there's a ceiling there, right again,
there's a ceiling. He's six five and you know he's
a three. He can play three four five.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Right, and he's but he's a.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Dog and he badly and those kids, they so badly
want a shot at Division one basketball.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
And what I value Dan is.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yes, there's a there's a toughness to be in an underdog,
no question. There's also we had a kid last year
who at the end of the year we really had
to use all utilize a lot. But he had never
been the best player, I don't believe, or a leading
scorer on his team ever, right, And there's just something
that you have to know and feel and be able

(23:56):
to do if you want to do.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
That at any level.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
And so I just it's like the Bronnie James thing, right,
Like Brian James was never the best player on any
team he ever played on.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
So he didn't know how to be a dominant player.
He just didn't. He didn't know how to take over
a game.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
And you know, I have a kid at Justin Allen,
who was the Division three kid, and Justin averaged twenty
two to twenty four and twenty six. And yeah, if
you watch the tape, some of his shots selections last
year wasn't great, but he had to make hard shots
because that was his role.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
On that team. And so he comes into us humble
in that he's never played Division on basketball.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
He comes to us hungry because not a lot of
schools even offered him when he went to the portal.
But he also comes to us with a ton of
confidence as a scorer, because that's all he's done since
he's played college basketball.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
Ranted at a lower level.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Okay, I'm not trying to stay the D three best
at a lower level, but I value the confidence and
the ability to do as well as the hunger, maybe
more so than the upside of a kid who's two
inches taller or somebody who's a.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Three star at a high school.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
So DP, when what are the trademarks or traits you
look for that show you a kid is an underdog
but worthy of.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Joining the weed.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
Well, the first thing, which you already mentioned is humility.
Humility is most important trait I think obviously. I'm Jewish
and study Torah deeply, and they say Moses was the
most humble man who ever lived. He is a leader
of the Jewish people wandering through the desert, but he
maintained humility even as he talked to God. If Moses
can be humble, so can you. Because you average twenty

(25:46):
two points per gave it to Juco like humble yourself.
You got to sniff out humility. The second one is
a growth mindset, like, we want guys who know, no
matter how good you are, there's another level to get
to you, and you're gonna have to work for it.

Speaker 6 (25:58):
You gonna have to earn it.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
The red flag, the number one red flag is kids
who display they don't have a growth mindset by blaming
others for their shortcomings. If a kid had a rough
year and I asked what happened and they immediately blame
the coach or blame their teammates, that shows me they're
not taking accountability for their failures for shortcomings, and they're
gonna continue to do that throughout their career. But guys
who go through challenging situations and look at how could

(26:21):
I have approached this better?

Speaker 6 (26:22):
How could I?

Speaker 5 (26:23):
One of my biggest pet peeves is, oh, I didn't
you know I didn't play well because my coach doesn't
like me. Well, guess what your coach likes to win?
A better teammate or you had been into enough player,
you wouldn't been on that port. No coach is gonna
lose their job and lose games because they don't like you.

Speaker 6 (26:37):
So we flag.

Speaker 5 (26:39):
We read flag people who places external blame. The next
thing I look for is I try to get to
the bottom of what motivates a player. Oftentimes I'll ask
a guy like, why do you do this? Why do
you want to play high major BASKETBA? Why do you
want to go to the NBA? And oftentimes the first
thing is I want to take care of my family.
I want you know, I want to help my mom.
And that's great. But then after that, what else drives you?

(27:00):
Because if that's your only driver, financial security is the
only driver. Once you achieve it, why are you going
to keep working? You look at Steph Curry, Lebron James.
They have more money and they'll ever know what to
do with, but they're still working maniacally because there's something
greater that's driving them.

Speaker 6 (27:15):
Right.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
And once you get to the bottom of what really
drives a kid, then you understand you know not only
how good they can be, but where to play them,
what program to put them in, what role to put
them in? Right, And we look for kids who want
to win. We look for kids who want to win
as a team. And it's not just about individual attributes, because,
like you said, oftentimes everybody was the best player in
their team growing up. When you get into an environment

(27:37):
where you have to play a role. Are you prepared
for that? Are you going to be humble? Are you
going to be a team first? So we really try
to screen for that. And also like we're big on gratitude,
Like George sends me gratitude text every week. We love
showing appreciation, love and gratitude. We don't want people who
are entitled and think that we're you know, we were
just there to serve them with no thanks. I look

(27:58):
for how players treat the people around them. You know,
you ask the coaches they played for do they appreciate
them or did they you know, leave without a trace?

Speaker 6 (28:08):
Right, So some of the buckets being looked.

Speaker 5 (28:10):
But if you really screen for those things, and then
as an agency or as a coach, have discipline and
saying no when a kid might be a dude, he
might be a killer, but he has all these red
flags of character that don't vibe with your your your culture.

Speaker 6 (28:23):
Are you willing to say no? There's power in.

Speaker 5 (28:25):
Saying no and do withization, because it's not fair. If
I have a kid who's an awesome human being, it
doesn't demand a ton of our time, and I'm over
indexing my staff's time towards kids who are super entitled
and asking for way too much.

Speaker 6 (28:39):
Yeah, and I think if I might say, just pig
back Dan.

Speaker 8 (28:41):
I think the other values Doug is like when we
go on these zoom calls or on phone calls, it's
just not one agent, it's our whole team. So our
whole team is getting to evaluate the situation, so all
of us will have different perspectives. And then it's a
collective group in a sense of like are we going
to take this on? And it's all even with if

(29:01):
Brandon has a guy, Dan has a guy, Juice n As,
you'll have a guy in California, we all technically have
a hand ind with that player some way, And I
think that's what makes it special. So we're all seeing
everything from a collective and speaking freely of this is
a good kid to take in their family or not.
And I think that's something that's very different that you
don't see all the time in this space.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Have you, George, is there anyone you placed this year
who you're like, but I mean, coach, want to pay
the money?

Speaker 4 (29:38):
It got done?

Speaker 8 (29:41):
Yeah, you know, I think there's a couple. But also
I think there's a couple where there's Dan. When Dan
comes I told you so moments where you someone calls
you and being fresh in this, you want to take
that player on, right, And we just finally got that
player to ex school. But that was probably the hardest
learning moment of that. We had a couple others that

(30:02):
I learned, we learned hard from and I learned hard.

Speaker 6 (30:04):
From, you know.

Speaker 8 (30:05):
But also it's it's critically you know that. You know,
Dan taught me let me get my feet wet, and
we learned together on it. But yeah, there's there's a
couple of guys right now that are floating the water
and we're in there trying to educate them to be like, hey, guy,
you know what's your worth? You know, we're getting phone calls,
you know, so we're being that extra you know, extra

(30:25):
support to get motivate these guys, and you know, as
the season goes, well, we'll work on that on those
X players.

Speaker 5 (30:33):
To Georgia's point, like this was George's first year you
know on the agent side, he was on the coaching
side for twenty years. There was times where I warned
him and then after a first morning, if he still
took that guy on, I let him and our staff
figure out in real time. This is why I warned you,
because I fought these battles before. Like humartin right, He's like,
I can help everybody. I can change him, I can

(30:53):
get him to see the light. And sometimes you can.
But but like I said, it's not fair to the
rest of the clients and the staff if you're overindexing
on guys who don't want to learn, who don't want
to And George has the biggest heart I know, and
he wants to help everybody, but at a certain point
guys have to have that internal drive to help themselves.
And I think the universe, the laws of the unseen,

(31:15):
laws of the universe, never fails. This is gonna this
might not work out well, and you still do it
because there's financial incentive. It's probably not going to work
out well, and you're not.

Speaker 6 (31:25):
Going to get that commission.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
You're gonna end up falling on your face and saying, wow,
I should have listened to my intuition.

Speaker 9 (31:30):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
Brandon the the Overseas Player.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Uh My, I think most of us in coaching view,
most of those guys as humble, like, look they're coming
over here because and this is our sale.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
Just there's no reasonable shit on my own pod, right.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
So it's like, what's right, what's the what's the sailor
green Bay back? Like how do you get a kid?
It's like, well, okay, look, we don't as much money
as everybody else. It's fine, or as much money as
people say. And I try and run a very discipline shop.
And my my, uh this year, what I'm trying to
do is I just I thought we our talent level across.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
The board wasn't good enough.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
So the only way to do it when you don't
have more money than anybody else. And I probably again,
if I could go back and do it, if I
knew I was going to win four Division one games,
I would have just said, the hell with it, we'll
play all by games in the non conference.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
And you know I now I inherited.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
A schedule which was way too difficult, and we made
three hundred and eighty last year, but I would have
made you know, six hundred and then had more to spend. Right,
we can get to scheduling maybe probably in the later pod.
But the point is that, so look, our sale is, Hey,

(33:06):
you can make I don't know, well into six figures overseas, okay,
but this is the only place outside of the NBA
where you can make mid six figures in a year
or two. Right, kid plays in Serbia and whatever he makes,

(33:28):
you know, it tops out in the next couple of years,
what one hundred and fifty, right, Whereas whereas in a
Power four you're making above. If you're playing, you're making
above that. So my sale is a complay for me
for year or two and then yes, this will be
less than maybe you're making out, maybe less than you thought.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
But we believe that.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
If you're as good as you think and you get
four years, that'll leave you three, two, even one year
to go and really really cash in and you can
always go back and play in your home cun So
there is part of the reason they come is not
just because they love America, right, It's because they do
want to get paid.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
But there is at least a felts like a.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Higher percentage of Hungary, a higher percentage of humble, a
higher percentage of of of kids who are about the
right things, especially right out of the gate. This year,
you've had this gold rush right where where finally overseas
guys are able to be cleared and eligible and there's

(34:37):
a there's a lot of big name overseas players coming.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
What has this been? When? Did? When was the moment
that it.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Turned because it happened really quickly? Was it was it
Illinois last year? And that's what changed things? What happened
where we went from it was really hard to get
international kids to now the floodgates are open.

Speaker 7 (34:57):
Yeah, last year was was really kind of that like
little but it didn't it didn't spread super fast right away.
It was like, oh, this is interesting, this this doesn't
seem like the kind of guy that would normally come
play college basketball. And then all of a sudden, you know,
it was really kind of halfway through the season, I

(35:18):
think because there was still like a lot of a
lot of kids that were not convinced, there was still
a lot of agents overseas that didn't really understand things,
and then all of a sudden, halfway through the season,
it exploded. I mean, you know, I talked to hundreds
of international players every year, whether they're you know, we
you know, clients of Dans or not. You know, I'm

(35:40):
helping anywhere and everywhere, and all of a sudden, my
phone just melted, you know, and it was it was
just like, hey, I.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Got a guy. I got a guy. I got everybody
had a guy. Had a sudden everybody had a guy.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
And you know, like you said, the culture, I got
a guy for you.

Speaker 7 (35:58):
The the kids are the right ones are humble and
understand the process. You know, you're always going to run
into the ones that they look at this as like
the get rich quick, you know situation. You know, you
and I worked on one that's not a Dan client
this year that like, you know, he's a good kid
that had all sorts of stuff going on early and

(36:20):
it kind of whatever, and he's a he's a great player,
and he's he's, you know, a.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Good dude and all that sort of thing. And like
a guy like that.

Speaker 7 (36:29):
Understands what this process looks like, you know, otherwise that
have just gone home, you know. And so I think
I think the right ones kind of have it figured
out and they're going to really turn it into great things.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Unfortunately, we're still going to see the fall on the
face situations.

Speaker 7 (36:45):
You know, we saw it last year with some really
high level guys that went one year, didn't do much
here and then went home. But now there's definitely like
this real hunger to come over here. And it's just
opened up all sorts of doors. And you know, we
talked about the high school kids and whatever. That's going
to create a lot more opportunities in the junior college
space and things too, because we even have really good

(37:06):
players coming over and playing juco.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
Oh yeah, we listen, we.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Recruit a kid at I'll give the school out people
can at Western Wyoming, and I really liked him, right,
and you know, it did come a little bit down
to dollars and cents. We took a kid. We took
a kid that we thought felt like it was kind
of doubled up on what he did. By the way,

(37:31):
I'd like to point out that I want credit, kay,
we had the first mid season acquisition, free agent acquisition
in the history of this thing. Right, So and yeah,
Yona tell Levy who I love him as a kid,
right and good player or whatever. So when historically, whenever

(37:52):
the story of the portal is written, and it ultimately
because I want to get into a couple of things
that I think are going to evolve out of this thing.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
I would love to be the guy who you know
who the first guy to get a free agent mid
season is it's gottlic Well.

Speaker 6 (38:08):
Who's gonna be the first orchestrated mid season trade. That's
that's the really I want to want that well.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Or or or late or late right now if I
could trade one so so so. So there's there's that. Okay,
here's the big question, guys and dan. I know your
internal answer is everything is going to get more expensive
next year. But there is the reality to there's going
to be a lot more players and that that have

(38:38):
experienced that are available than there have ever been before.
So what happens to the market next year? Considering Europe
is now open for business, right, like there's no tariffs there.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Hey, Europe is open for freaking business.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
So you're talking about brit How many for I mean,
how many for them players do you think we have
that will come over this year?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
A few hundred at least, right, it's is.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
It safe to say it's probably doubled from last year? Yes, okay,
so which means it'll probably double next year as well.
Fair Yeah, if at minimum it's this, but probably a
little bit more so.

Speaker 7 (39:26):
Nobody, not necessarily just division one, right, Like, I think
the numbers will continue to skyrocket in some of the
other levels because there is a there is a limit
to the talent.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
Pool, right, no question.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
But I like again, I'm interested in what happens to
junior teams International plan, you know, like, does it make
sense for for these schools to have have their junior
programs as well? I would say at minimum it doubles
next year. Okay, so if you increase the pool by
a couple of hundred kids and they're experiencing well, coach,

(40:00):
need to pause one second.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Guy, So I want to get a drink or whatever.
I'm actually ordering it an outburd squeak of record, this too?

Speaker 6 (40:10):
What's that mean?

Speaker 4 (40:11):
Okay? Can I get a uh a uh? I want
to three by three?

Speaker 1 (40:20):
No?

Speaker 2 (40:20):
No onions?

Speaker 3 (40:22):
And then can I get a double double.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Protein style? No onions? And then can I go.

Speaker 6 (40:32):
To n any phrase with that?

Speaker 8 (40:38):
No?

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Thanks?

Speaker 6 (40:39):
Nice? So I don't know what on.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Sure, sure can we eighty six?

Speaker 3 (40:48):
There you go, there's the there's the gotlieb.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
I'm leaving l A.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
I gotta get I'm a Southern California kid. I gotta
get some in an Albert before I got.

Speaker 6 (40:59):
Go ahead, come over to see my house in Venice.
You gotta gotta come.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
I got a little time here. I don't fly out
until six something. Am I going. It's possibility.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
I'm going to a fundraiser tonight for a political candidate,
and here in Venice.

Speaker 6 (41:13):
It's someone you can welcome to come with me.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
I'm gonna I'm gonna pass appreciate it. But if you
want to share the tour reading for the day, I would,
I would. I need a little God.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
So next time I'm back, I'm back for There's a
junior college event in two weeks, right, uh nom was
the third October three?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Oh, you're going out to California, California.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
DP the eighteenth and nineteenth.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Let me know if you're in Idaho.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
I have I have my men's group is doing a
retreat at one of our guys houses. We're doing weapons
training in Idaho, Northern Idaho.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
We have to have the DP camp. That's what we got.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Okay, So okay, So here's the question. What happens to
the market when you throw in let's say, two hundred
more professional basketball players.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
What happens?

Speaker 5 (42:13):
Well, So, first thing before I directly answer that question
to lead into that question to address your last question,
talk about the international highlight films. Right, A lot of
coaches have a lot of trouble trusting their own eVols
when it's an unfamiliar league and unfamiliar country and unfamiliar
style of play. They're much more comfortable taking the kid
to average eleven at Southeast Missouri State than the kid

(42:34):
who average eleven some league in Europe that haven't heard of.

Speaker 6 (42:36):
But that's how you get.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
A competitive advantage with a smaller budget. Right, you talk
about the high end guys are the ones who went
to Illinois and BYU and you know, these million dollar guys,
But in that middle and lower tier of international pros
or youth players, there's so much value if you know
how to evault and you know what you're looking at,
and you trust your gut. And that's why we've had
such a competitive advantage we've no pun intended and such

(43:00):
a competitive advantage international space because me and Brandon have
been doing playing international kids for over a decade before
there was any nil and any money. We're doing this
for fun. So like Pela Larson, who's my client with
the Miami Heat, me and Brandon helped him come over here.

Speaker 6 (43:15):
Six years ago he.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
Was playing in the FOBA Under eighteen B division to Sweden,
and I remember calling the high majors who wouldn't even
watch his film, you know, Swedish B division whatever he had.
His final three visits were San Francisco with Todd Golden,
UCSB with Joe Pasternak, and then he ended up at
Utah Post Arizona and it ends up in the NBA. Okay, well,

(43:38):
now there's another kid from Sweden coming over this year.
Oscar Wickstrom, from the same club as Palace, same height,
same position, couldn't get a single Division one offer because
he's high end pros pushed the mid and lower tier
European kids down a level. So Oscar would have been
a mid major plus guy five years ago. Now he's
in Juco. But he's going to be blow up in

(44:00):
Juco and be a high major player. We're going to
tell everybody I've told you so. So I think what's
happened now is European recruiting used to be a scavenger hunt,
but now it's turning, you know, very similar to US recruiting.
Who are the five stars? Who are the you know,
highly ranked guys. There's so much value in the in
the in the in the other categories. Right, But like anything,
when there's more money in the market, there's gonna be

(44:21):
more players staying in college longer, more high level pros
coming over, and it pushes everybody down a level, right,
The low major guys are now going juco juco guys
or maybe.

Speaker 6 (44:28):
Happening to prep a year. But it creates.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Opportunity for a program like a Green Bay who's willing
to take a risk and turn over and cost their
evals because some of the you know, guy like Oscar
Wickstrom is at Howard Junior College is going to be
better than a lot of these guys who played pro.
We are getting a million bucks coming over here. So
the other interesting thing to look at in the market
this year, though, to that note, why I don't think
it will double from last year to this year. But

(44:55):
this next is the changes with the House settlement and
Trump's executive order and all these other h uh, you
know things that are happening that are causing uncertainty in
the market. No one really knows what the budgets are
going to be this year. No one knows if this
salary cap is going to stick. No one knows how
people are going to circumvent it. People don't know how
it's going to affect the marketplace. So there is going
to be some fear going into this year's marketplace. Now

(45:18):
I think eventually correct itself in two years from now
we'll see an increase again. But this year is going
to be a different market than last year. Last year
was a free for all. This year it's going to
be people figuring out how to work within and around
the rules, and and and also ultimately, there's only so
many spots on a Division one roster. The Campy All International,
there's always going to be a place for American kids.

(45:40):
But ultimately, the more money there is in the pool,
the more good players are going to come over, and
the better it is for the quality of play.

Speaker 6 (45:48):
People people say, oh, you know nil on the transfer portal?
Are are you know? Kelly?

Speaker 5 (45:52):
And college sports, there's more more interesting college course than
there ever was. It's more viewership there, there's more passion,
and the better the players are in that sport. In
these sports, the more fan more fans will be.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna disagree with you. I do
think there's a lot of money, and the money comes
from all the competing TV entities.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
I don't think there's the same passion for it that used.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
To be because they don't know who the players are,
you know, they just don't.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
They don't know who the players are.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
And if you don't know who the players are, if
you don't have a relationship, like you know, it's it's
like we're as.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
It is right now.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Okay, sorry about that, as it is right now. I
know a couple of high major schools. They're like, dude,
how do we get people to come to our games
when we weren't good last year?

Speaker 4 (46:47):
And no one knows who these players are?

Speaker 3 (46:49):
So why would I get my car and drive to
a college town to go see a game when I
can watch it on TV anyway?

Speaker 4 (46:56):
And I don't have the same affinity and the players.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Not at all schools, but many of the schools, the
players don't have the same that they're not going to
class anymore. Right, everything's online, so's they're literally mercenaries. I
just again, I don't think that there's the popularity. I think,
let's not confuse the fact that people gamble on the
Final Four and the NCAA tournament for the sports the

(47:20):
popular as.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Used to be.

Speaker 7 (47:22):
I think you're right that there's an attendance issue for
certain places or whatever.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Which is kind of across the board in a lot
of sports.

Speaker 7 (47:28):
But TV viewership was up almost eleven percent last year
over the year before, So people are watching.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Why are they watching and not going, you know to
the game?

Speaker 7 (47:39):
I don't know, And that could cause an issue here
when we're talking about rev sharing, where the cost of
tickets and things like that is definitely going to impact
like that in person viewership. But I think the actual
like interest in the game has increased, you know, like
we saw on the viewership side of stuff. But you're right,
like the in person part of it is definitely going
to be an interesting nut to crack, because now, how
do we keep funding this sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
You can't ticket prices and all that sort of stuff.
It's gonna have to find its middle ground somewhere.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Listen, I'll just tell you guys, like right now, at
our level, right most schools, and this is where I
think I actually have a really good job.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
I don't think it's always been a really good job.
I think it is now and where we're going eventually
is we actually have There is money in Green Bay.
Green Bay basketball is important to the city, and we
can fundraise outside of with me and and outside of
just using guarantee money. Okay, But what's interesting is now

(48:39):
you have schools doing the there's a school at HBCU school.
I'll leave their name out of it, okay, but they
have a huge budget for HBCU. And what they do
is they promise guys all their money, but we're not.
You're not getting paid till after we play our guarantee
games because that's when the money is gonna come in, right.
And but the question is now there'll be more teams

(49:01):
like in our league. Last year we played far and
away the hardest schedule, like it wasn't close in our
league now, I think our schedule is really difficult because
we play I think like the Virgin Island strip is
we play Yale to start, like, we play really good programs,
but we don't have I think far and away the
hardest schedule. You're seeing many teams in our league play
four to six guarantee games. But when you have that

(49:24):
market flooded by more teams looking for six figure paydays,
stands a reason to drive down the overall price.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
So, and I'm gonna just tell you, like, we're able
to we have a good budget, and we're gonna meet
our budget and we're gonna grow our budget. But there
are a lot of schools that just don't have any
money and they are screwed. And so the question is, Okay,
do you go through a year where hey, let's not
pay anybody for years, save up, and then next year
we go for it. I guess my thing Dan on

(49:55):
the deal is like I just there is a limit
to how much money there is. And so while the
budget and it may go up for some people, I
think for a lot of people this is going to
be a really telling year because you just can't go
over budget the way people have.

Speaker 6 (50:08):
Yeah, I disagree. I don't think there's a limit to
the money. I think there's a limit to.

Speaker 5 (50:11):
The skillfulness of the people who are tasked with fundraising.
I think ultimately there is nothing like people's emotional tie
to their local school and the school that they went to.
Because you know, I grew up in Chicago, cool, we
liked the Bulls, but I didn't go to University of Chicago.
Bulls right, But if you went to a university and
that school beats your rival school, that means that year

(50:33):
you're better than everyone who went to that school. There's
nothing like the emotional tie people have to the school
they went to. And for people who are super rich,
you went to those schools. There's no way to flex
on your classmates better than helping that by winning fund
a winning team. Right now, you can buy a Rolls Royce, well,
everyone can do that, but can you contribute ten million
dollars to help them win games? And everyone's sharing for
a team you help build. People always talk about donor fatigue.

(50:57):
Since the start of NIL, they would talk about donor
fatig and it's only the numbers have only gone up
because people love helping their alma mater win games. And ultimately,
I think I believe maybe I have a rational conference
to myself. Put me with any any university in the country.
I will find a way to rile up that fan base,
raise money and get them to see how important it

(51:17):
is that community to help this team win games. So
so far, every single year since and I all started,
people talk about donor fatigue. We haven't seen it. The
numbers have just keep kept going up, and it trickles down. Right,
the more money at the high levels, Uh, the more
it trickles down with buy games and and things like that.
And to your one more point on that note, you said,

(51:38):
you know, what do you do?

Speaker 6 (51:39):
Do you just save up and win one year? Do you?
You know? Ration it out?

Speaker 5 (51:43):
We still have not seen the program, the college program
that operates in a way that a small budget European
club would, which I've pitched any programs is see it
as a farm system for for bigger programs, multiple year
deals with buyouts, develop guys and get paid when they
transfer to a bigger school.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Okay, wait wait, wait wait wait, now you're now and
you're talking my next topic. Okay, so I'll begin. Probably
shouldn't share this shit, but I will.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Why not?

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Right?

Speaker 4 (52:12):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (52:13):
So shocka Smart's awesome, been great to me. I get
the job, and I said, shock up, why do you
loan me a couple year freshmen for two years? I'll
send him back to you. That's a great idea.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
I'm not gonna do it. So then this year.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
I was I'm trying to recruit all the Wisconsin kids, right,
So I watched one group play and they had a
kid who's committed to the University Wisconsin and he's good,
big six' five sixty five and a half. GUARD i
mean he looks like the guards in our. LEAGUE i
mean he looks like eventually he'll be a big ten.
Player SO i Text Greg. GUARD i, Said, greg why

(52:54):
don't you loan me the kid for a couple of?

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Years and he's, like. AH i was, like they do
it In, europe why not Up and he's.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Like somebody will do, it it's just not gonna be.
Us so like for people who aren't, following, okay The european,
model and you're talking about two different parts to A.
Dp first thing is cart the two the two year
contract or the multi year. Contract the problem In wisconsin

(53:22):
football obviously is challenging some of this stuff right now
with a with a with a football, case right.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
But THE.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
I think the biggest issue with the multi year contract
is nobody thinks the contracts are worth the paper that
it's printed. On so how do we how do we
get a contract that stands up in court for one
of these?

Speaker 6 (53:42):
PLAYERS i, mean it's not hard to, Do we've done.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
It.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
Uh but it also comes down to the school's willingness.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
To uh take legal action if if you know they're.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
They don't want to take that's the big.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Thing they don't want to take legal action because nobody, say,
well no agent's gonna want to senec into somewhere where
they're going to get sued if they get way more.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Money.

Speaker 5 (54:03):
RIGHT i Think tennessee did it with their quarterback or.
SOMETHING i don't follow football as, closely but very few
are willing to. Sue and for us as, agents we
care about the integrity of the space and the and
we care about both sides of. It so if our
guys have, buyouts we pay. Them we do it even
if they could get away with it and not paying
it in the school numbers soon and we're still going
to do it because it's the right thing to do.

(54:23):
It they agreed to that. Right but, ultimately like as
this space, evolves there are going to be more uniform,
contracts there are going to be more ways to get
buyouts and things like. That and ultimately you said you
Mentioned guard And shaka they're afraid to take that.

Speaker 6 (54:41):
Risk, well they.

Speaker 5 (54:41):
Already have winning, Programs but ultimately there's going to be
people who get jobs soon and coming with radically different
strategies moneyball type and.

Speaker 6 (54:48):
Fortune favors of both fall on the face with.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
It but some people are, like IF i not to
give away business, ideas but, like IF i had a
billion dollars right now AND i didn't have a wonderful
business THAT i love, doing AND i wanted to look for,
OPPORTUNITY i might finance a juco. Program, Hey i'm going
to give you, guys you, know a few hundred thousand,
dollars give guaranteed contracts to the best junior college prospects
in exchange for a percentage of their future. Earnings, right
run a juco like a, business like a Small european.

(55:16):
Club it happens In europe in, soccer in basketball and
all different. Sports but people are afraid to adopt that
model and implement it here because it's not like anything
that's ever been, done and it's.

Speaker 6 (55:26):
Risky but ultimately someone's going to do.

Speaker 5 (55:28):
It they're going to be, bold they're going to take a,
risk they're going to, win and everyone's going to follow.
Suit it'll be interesting. Again you talk about trades and, loans,
like you can't do a loan out right? Now you
can do you, know play here two, years get a buy, out.
Whatever but once you have multiple schools within the same
public university, system why can't you sign The university Of illinois.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Development it's a perfect SO i Told, GREG i, Said,
greg first of, all you should.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Play us every.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Year why would you put the money in to a
different state university? System play it every. Year and you
should send us too freshmen every. Year and then just
like In, europe like if you want to call him
up for next, season then you're.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
New you retain their.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Rights we pay whatever the loan out fee. Is kid
still gets his number and he's still part of your.
ORGANIZATION i don't really understand. Loss now we have a strength,
condition but we all think we're Not. Wisconsin we don't
have the things they. Have so, YEAH i agree with,
you like this is ULTIMATELY i think it could. Work
it's just who's going to be bold enough at that

(56:33):
high level to try and pull it.

Speaker 6 (56:35):
Off true to we're going to get someone to do.

Speaker 5 (56:37):
It as an, agency we've won by pushing the, envelope
being creative and taking risks that others won't, take and
seeing the future and acting upon what we think will
happen is going to. Happen we're going to make it.
Happen we just need we have one willing participant in. You,
now we just need a dancing.

Speaker 6 (56:52):
Partner i'm. In i'm.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
IN i just went, Out.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
George six teams in our league didn't play freshman a
single minute last. Year so THAT'S i think one of
the things you're run into is everybody's trying to stay, old, Right.

Speaker 6 (57:09):
Yeah that's the new. Norm, yeah that's that's the new.
Normal but what was that we were talking? About what
was the average? AGE i THINK i can't was it
twenty twenty? One, gosh it was a.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Lot.

Speaker 7 (57:21):
Yeah they went up basically a full year in this
last couple of.

Speaker 8 (57:25):
Years, yeah just about the last couple of months of
guys that replaced that our older international guys over here
that are you, know high value guys that it's going
to be twenty two to twenty three now they want
to win at a high. Level older guys. Are they
want grown, men and that's what's going to just continue
to do. It BUT i agree with what you're, Saying
doug AND, dp like we know that whoever pushes as

(57:48):
button first and we, will Like dan, say, well we'll
be pushed to push this it's going to be a
freak amazing experience and a story to.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Tell like the farm, system just.

Speaker 8 (57:58):
Nothing it's no different in, baseball right you got the farm,
System boom boom. Boom get A, juco you get A
division two and your guys just funnel through all the
way up to the top and who can we?

Speaker 7 (58:07):
Do we still get the special uniqueness though of. Basketball
it's it's much more so in basketball than it'll ever
be in. Football but the idea that you, Know Wisconsin
Green bay can go out and can win the, league
and can you, know have these great players and go
to THE ncaa tournament and you know all that that
sort of thing like, that that aspect of it which

(58:29):
everybody will fight tooth and nail to keep because that's
what makes this space.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Special you, know you.

Speaker 7 (58:35):
CAN i think in this current environment it's actually possible
for a lot more parody in some, ways where you,
know teams are up at the top are making these
big mistakes on some of these transfers and, stuff and
teams down below that are really.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
So where do you think the parody lies in the,
league in each individual league or from power for everybody?

Speaker 7 (59:02):
Else, yeah in each individual league in each, Individually you're
Not you're not going to have The Butler horizon stories, anymore,
Right like that's just Not but within each individual league
there's all these special ways that make college basketball unique and.
Different the fact that you can win The Horizon league
and go to THE Ncaa tournament is, special. Right you,

(59:24):
know you're you're in THE mac in college, football like
great doesn't really. Matter you, know you can't you can't
go compete on the on the national stage doing, That
so you, know IT'S i THINK i think it's pretty.
COOL i think it's really interesting because even though the
rosters are turning, over guys that'll really work and find
the ways to get into the spaces where there's still

(59:46):
great players available that are being. Overlooked, now, yeah go
do that win with a different. Roster guess WHAT juco
guys do that every year they turn over thirteen.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Scholarships that's a great. Point, yeah the best program still.

Speaker 6 (59:59):
Win but you, KNOW i.

Speaker 8 (01:00:00):
Think the, one, Dude doug is like even when you're
talking To, wisconsin like loan on the, Players, like, yes
they might have a better strength, program but what's What,
okay great, strength but they're gonna be on the floor for.

Speaker 6 (01:00:11):
You they're going to.

Speaker 8 (01:00:12):
Develop like that's a counter right, Back, like, hey they're
gonna be our, guys so you're gonna say a, strength
you're gonna we have a better strength.

Speaker 6 (01:00:20):
Order but development them on.

Speaker 8 (01:00:21):
The floor and getting real game, time you, know life
events in that is gonna benefit even more when they
ever do get called back.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Up that's it for The All Ball.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Podcast we have part two coming where we get even
deeper into.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
It that's next. Time I'm Doug gottlieb In this Is
All ball