July 9, 2025 • 43 mins
Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin, talking about Angel Reese landing on the cover of the WNBA edition of NBA 2k26 and why Caitlin Clark should have clearly been the choice here. He also talks to NBA reporter Anthony Slater about the hype surrounding Cooper Flagg’s debut at the Summer League when he faces off against Bronny James. Plus Doug looks at Kirk Cousins claiming he regrets signing with the Falcons who ended up drafting his replacement in Michael Penix Jr and why this feels like revisionist history
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
What Up?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Welcome in this heers the Herd wherever you may be
and however you may be, making this part of your day.
Thanks so much. I've done gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd,
and for the next couple of hours, I want to
talk sports with you from Powway to Escodito to oh
(00:51):
Time Mesa. Welcome in, Good to be back on in
La on AM five seventy the home Peeps and all
throughout the country on the Heart family of networks as
well as the iHeartRadio Welcome Bookman. So in the I
was today years old that I learned right, You learn
(01:12):
lots of things. It's weird as you get older. Right now,
I coach college kids. I'm a head coach of Wisconsin
Green Bay and it again I have a really good
group of young men that want to learn, want to
get better at basketball. We try and teach them about
life a little bit. And you know, college is just
(01:35):
in a weird sort of phase where so many schools
because of COVID went online, and then you factor in chat,
GPT and everything else. How much are kids actually learning?
But the biggest difference between a kid in an adult,
I think there's two or three things. Right, Like, you
(01:57):
know you're an adult when you'd ever turned down a nap.
It never turned down a nap. I mean, ask tuy
and and even Ryan who doesn't have kids. If you
go like, hey, man, two o'clock, what if I if
I give you like an hour to shut off your
phone and take a nap, there isn't an adult life
(02:18):
that'll be like, yeah, down for that. A kid, you say, hey,
take a nap. You know, after you get to like
two years old, you're done with naps. Adults, well, adults,
they will order vegetables or order salads or actually ask
for them for dinner. Most kids like what why you
(02:40):
have to make them eat vegetables, make them eat legomes,
make them eat eat fruits. Right, that's the difference. In adults,
And the other thing about adults as opposed to kids
is I don't know if you're like this when you
do the whole You know, you help your kid with
their homework, But man, you get to a certain age
and you're like, man, I kind of like learning. Maybe
(03:03):
it was how we were taught, maybe it was the teachers,
maybe it was our desire to do other things. But
I remember being in school and I just could not
wait for every day to be over, as opposed to now, Damn,
I love learning things. I just do. Sunday I learned
that a handball in soccer was not just simply the
(03:26):
ball touching a non goalkeeper's hand. I literally, Monday, I
walked in and I was like, man, I didn't know
that the ball could graze your hand, and if it
was in the natural motion of whatever you were doing
as as an athlete in soccer, it didn't mean it
(03:47):
was a handball. I don't know did anybody know that.
I mean, I'm sure like soccer guys like, yeah, you're dope. Hey,
I played soccer growing up. I don't remember any of
that stuff. I just remember the tunnel, I remember caprice on,
I remember scoring goals I you know, I don't remember
any of that. So I love learning, and I'll tell
(04:11):
you something I learned today. Okay, there was a playwright
in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds, mostly seventeen hundreds. His
name was William Congreeve. You're like, why are you telling
me about a playwright, because he's the one who authored
up the phrase, hell hath no fury like a woman scorn,
(04:35):
hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn. Have you
ever heard that? If you haven't heard that, when I
bet he also said you must not kiss and tell,
so kiss and tell, and hell hath no worries, hell
hath no wrath like a scorned woman. That's that we
changed the words, that changed the order of it, right
we hell hath no furry like a woman's scorn. That
(05:01):
was William Congreve, who is a famous playwright in the
sixteen and seventeen hundreds. I was born in sixteen seventy
died in seventeen twenty nine, And like, why are you
starting out with that? Saying, well, I'll tell you. I
also learned that apparently there's not a true standalone version
(05:23):
of it, but a video game within a video game
for EA Sports. So EA Sports has two K? Or
is it EA Sports has two K? You're familiar with
two K, okay, so apparently there's also a WNBA version
of two K. And I get it right, Like what
(05:45):
is two K? If you take away all the dunks
and the made layups and three points and the high
percentage of made three point shots, and you have WNBA.
But there is no denying the WNBA's sudden rise in popularity.
And for those of us who are honest with ourselves,
it's because of Kaitlyn Clark. And you know, we can
(06:09):
get into the reasons why I love the people that
fall on the race aspect of it. When then you
point out, like, hey, Sabrina in Escu and Kelsey Plumb
were great women's college basketball players who came to the league,
had have been great WNBA players, and they have not
received any amount of the acclaim of a Caitlin Clark.
(06:30):
There's a bunch of different factors, mostly likely the logo threes,
the hey we love Steph Curry And here's the closest
version of it, who happened to play the same school
for four years, happen to take her to a team
to two straight final fours happened, looks like everybody else's
little sister, right, all of those things she kind of nails.
(06:56):
But upon my quest to learn something every day, I
found out that there's an NBA two K version focusing
on the WNBA. But here's the kicker. The cover choice
was Angel Rees was Angel Rees. And it just continues
(07:18):
this pattern of the WNBA doing everything in their power
to I don't know if it's diminished Caitlin Clark or
to promote everybody other than Kaitlin Clark, but whatever it is,
we try and search for reasons, and I keep falling
(07:40):
back on hell hath no wrath, like a woman scorned
William Cornelius in the late sixteen hundreds, and like, wait
a second, why are they scored? Caitlin Clark said nothing
negative towards any of these women. She doesn't have to.
The only logical conclusion as to why so many of
(08:01):
these women have done everything in their power to marginalize
he rise to fame and what it's done for the
entire sport of women's basketball is that you have women
that feel like they've been scorned by media, by mainstream
fans for their entire lives and it it comes out
(08:29):
as anger and resentment towards Caitlin Clark. Does that make sense.
There's something called the Have you ever heard the anger Iceberg?
If you go through therapy, people tell you it's you
learn the anger Iceberg That people are angry and they
get snappy with one of the other in like relationships,
and it's not about that one thing. It's about all
(08:51):
this other thing, all the insecurities, all the mistrust, all
the times of other relationships that have gone bad, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, And it comes out as snapiness
towards one another. And any relationship you have, even in business,
you pocket resentment towards somebody else getting in promotion, somebody
(09:12):
else getting shine, You not feeling like you're heard in
a meeting, you having a bad interaction with somebody at
a Christmas party or whatever. For these women, okay, remember
I see it as most of us see it. I'm
Doug Gottliebin for Collin. This is the herd twenty five
(09:34):
years of the WNBA. I'm not as negative about their
overall talent and skill as others are. It's a different sport.
Our expectations are different we don't have the one hundred
years of history in the NBA, and we just don't
if you take away the NBA with the dunks and
the proficiency from three point line, you know, And the
(09:57):
other part about NBA players is they look like superheroes,
whereas many of those women though for women, crazy athletic,
crazy talented, they're just is no comparison. When you watch
one game to other, it's like watching one in slow
motion and one that plays below the rim, and below
the rim causes more mislay ups, and it's again just
(10:20):
a different, much less athletic game. And for twenty five years,
we didn't pay attention to it in sports media and
I've been a part of sports media for twenty five years.
We didn't pay attention to it because nobody did the
science to this is not that hard to figure out, Gollen.
(10:44):
This is me doing the Colin thing. Cullen, You only
want to talk about Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes and
Aaron Rodgers and Lebron James. Yeah, because we're no different
than top forty radio man play the hits. Our job
is to talk about what most people care about, and
we have twenty five years of data that tells you
(11:05):
most people don't care about the WNBA. And the only
reason we're talking about it now is because Caitlin Clark
has brought attention and people are in fact talking about
the WNBA now. So now we're going to be attractive
talking more about it. But when you're raised as a
women's basketball player, you're raised to believe everybody's out to
(11:30):
get you. Everybody's out to get you. Look, I don't
know if you recall, but if you go back to
the COVID year NCAA tournament, they had women who were
in San Antonio and they had a little makeshift weight
(11:52):
room and it was like, you know, two dumbells and
you know, and a balance ball. And then they showed
them men's weight room in Indianapolis and it looked like
a we're a weight room. And what happens is, you know,
the the NCAA like apologize for it. It acts like
this was this was discrediting all of women's basketball. When
(12:17):
reality is one, it comes down to the planning committee,
that's what they have to do. Two, the men's teams,
I believe all of them were there for like a month,
so they had to prep for it, and they had
the Big ten tournament there, so they had all this
had all been kind of planned out, whereas for San
Antonio it was just a one stop shop and they
threw it together. And anybody who's ever traveled knows that, like,
(12:41):
it doesn't matter the hotel chain. You can be a
Hyatt guy, right or a Bonvoy guy, and and some
hotels have a rinking, dank weight room and some hotels don't.
It doesn't have anything to do with anything other than
that particular hotel, that particular general manager and what they
think they want to focus their resources on. But the
point is that that case is no different than anything else.
(13:05):
Why do women have home sites during the NCAA tournament
instead of the regional sites that the men have, Well, again,
anyone who's realistic in business knows that the reason they
went back to home sites is that's their only ability
to draw people and to sell tickets. They've played in
the big arenas. It hasn't worked, by and large. Trust me,
(13:25):
if the NCAAFL like they can make more money doing it,
they would do it because it's the only way in
which they make money is the men's and women's NCAA
basketball tournaments. But Again, how you and I view it
from a business perspective, which is very much in the
neutral kind of corner, is hey, they're doing it because
it makes the most sense financially. How women view it is, oh,
(13:47):
we're a secondary tournament. We have to play in home sites. Right,
So it doesn't matter necessarily what the reality of women's
basketball was over the last twenty five years, right, that
you started from nothing and built it into something that
was fairly sustainable. Again, those of us who lived it
(14:09):
in real time, as I have, like my media career,
has mirrored essentially the length of the WNBA. You went
from being completely subsidized by the NBA playing in these
gargantuan arenas to hey, let's dial this back, play in
smaller venues, be smarter, Okay, save more money, fly commercial
space out the games, et cetera, et cetera. But how
(14:34):
it's received is we've been treated like crap for years,
and now you're trying to push this star who she
might be another Jeremy Lynn linsanity, and we're not buying it.
So when I saw that quote today, I just and
(14:55):
then I saw that the two K version of NBA
two K had angel Rees, not Caitlin Clark on the cover, right,
Because again whether or not you're buying or I'm buying
a WNBA two K game doesn't matter. Right, everything would
(15:15):
be boosted up if you put Caitlin Clark on. It
probably cost you know, the gaming company more to put
her on the cover. But the WNBA forcing us to
take on Angel Reese as some sort of rival to
Caitlin Clark, forcing it, forcing it, forcing it makes it
feel icky, whereas it's super easy here. Just put Caitlin
(15:40):
Clark on everything. It'll sell more. It'll be the rising
tide that lifts all ships. But from the Olympic team
last year, to the players only voting where they voted
her the ninth best guard, to put an Angel Rees
on NBA two K, to all the bitterness and pushback
(16:02):
and the treatment of Caitlyn Clark where they're clearly trying
to punk her and bully her and her teammates, and
to making and look bad. All of that stuff leads
most of us to go, why would you do that?
Why wouldn't you embrace the fact that people are paying
attention to your sport, covering it like it's one of
(16:23):
the big three sports? Probably got more coverage in the
NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, and the only logical conclusion I
can come to is hell hath no wrath like as
a woman scored. All the years of being made to
feel like you're a secondary or tertiary product, and probably
(16:44):
even tertiary's not as strong as they were leads women
to push back against anything seen as mainstream media and fans.
Oh now you like us, but only for her? Well,
put to you two. Give me your thoughts Twitter, Instagram
at Gottlieb Show. In the meantime, Okay, we do have
(17:06):
some NBA news chet Holmegrin, reups for the Max, reups
for the Max. What does that mean for the Thunder
and their ability to maintain the best record in the
regular season and a postseason championship. Let's discuss it next.
(17:28):
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Hurd.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Hey what's up, everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Harrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game? What is up on Game?
You ass along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Huschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Of talent on it.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Up on Game We're going to be sharing our real
life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on
Game with me lebar Arrington, t J. Hutchman, Zada, and
Plexico Birds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
From Doug Otliebit for Collinis, the Hurt Fox Sports Radio
iHeartRadio app. Welcome in huh So the big news in
the NBA today as we get ready for real NBA
(18:41):
Summer League, which is Las Vegas. Yes again, and I'm
it may sound disrespectful for the I forget where the
California Golden State games are. Is the one everyone hyper
focuses on is in Las Vegas. Uh And we'll we'll
get to that up in the show. Because the Lakers
played yesterday. The Lakers are the signature nightcap in the
(19:06):
Summer League, opening night against the Dallas Mavericks, and of
course the Dallas Mavericks have the number one overall pick
and the Lakers have Brownie James and it's a it's
it'll be something. But let's let's dig in with Anthony Slater,
of course covers the league for the Athletic He joins
us now in the herd, Anthony, let me let me
(19:27):
ask you about Chet holmbern So announce today that Chet
Holmgren agrees to terms on a max contract on a
max contract to remain in Oklahoma City. And he's really
only played like a season and a half. If you're
an Oklahoma City fan or you're hopeful of a dynasty there,
does what does this do for you?
Speaker 5 (19:49):
I mean, I think it's just checked the box that
you knew was coming. And the other, the one that's
coming soon is gonna be Jamn Williams, who has the
same agent, Bill Duffy, which I'm sure you know helps
and leverage the negotiat. But you know, Jaylen Williams is
gonna get his max, and his max if he's makes
all NBA again, would actually be even higher than Chess.
And you know we're talking about rookie max is. I
(20:10):
know sometimes we just everybody just says max. They're different,
you know, percentages of the cap and this is you know,
the fresher one. But you know, you're you're getting the
next six years of Chet Holmers early prime into his prime.
Sure he's not your you know, prototype number two certainly
as a score, I think he's got higher upside there. Uh,
but I mean he's a rim protecting three point shooter
(20:32):
at seven feet tall. To me, like, you know, that
is a very valuable piece for a team that wants
to win with defense first. Uh, and you saw it
in the play you know we can? We can kind
of at times. I certainly did you know their first
playoff run together when they lost in the second round,
and though they're the one seed, I kind of wondered
if Jaylen Williams and Chet Hoolmer could be a legitimate
number two, number three on a title team. Well that
(20:54):
question kind of was answered a month ago.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah. I mean, I think the question for for Chet
is twofold one. Can he stay healthy?
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Right, that's the big thing. Can you stay healthy? And
then at some point Kenny regained confidence in his shooting.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yeah? Fair, I mean, yeah, it's a it's a it's
a good question. But I think even the version of
Chet you saw really impacts winning. You know, it's he's
going to protect the rim at a high level. There
was times even in those finals. You know, I can
remember in a couple of the losses, certainly you know,
his his shooting, you know, I think he went too
(21:28):
and nine in the game one loss and was really
hard on himself. And I remember late in one of
the games in Indiana, Miles Turner kind of you know,
wiped away a couple of his shots, and those flaws
seem to you know, percolate a little bit. But also
I can remember him, like, you know, walling off the
rim in important stretches of those finals. But yes, if
he like he has the next level to get to,
(21:49):
that I think I would agree with you that his
health will determine because he spent all last summer really
kind of like grinding and getting his offense, I think
to a higher level. I think I went to their
O the night game in Denver and he like outplayed Jokis.
I think he had like twenty five fourteen and five blocks.
And then about two weeks later, I'm at a game
in Oklahoma City and Andrew Wiggins just plows through him
and he breaks his hip and then he's bedridden for
(22:12):
six weeks, he's out for you know, fifty games whatever
he ended up missing last season. I think that really
stunted his offensive growth. But yeah, I would agree that
long term for him to like probably be worth that contract.
When we're in the middle years and you know, you're
talking fifty million or whatever it's going to be, you'd
want him, you know, eighteen nineteen per game, maybe like
a thirty eight percent at least three point shooter and
(22:34):
more of a supplementary score. Because the other part of
this is they're about to get really expensive and some
of that depth that's been around them is going to
kind of melt away.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Right, Yeah, it will. But to kind of you mentioned
Jaylem Williams, what do you make of the fact he
just shared that he received about thirty injections during the
playoffs just to be able to get that that that
right wrist functional to play through the NBA finals.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
To me, it's a I mean, it's impressive, right, and
then it didn't come out, and you know, he still
played well. He had a foty point game in the finals. Like,
I don't think his shooting was to his standard the
whole playoffs, but he had a really good playoffs and
generally and you know, knowing what he went through with
the ritch, that that makes it more impressive to me.
But I also think it's more of another example of
like a lot of times we don't know what most
(23:24):
of these guys are going through physically. I'd say, you know,
eighty percent of the league by you know, middle of
the playoffs has sometime a bumper bruise that sounded like
a more extreme version of one, right, the torn wrist.
But you know, like the Warriors, for example, had two
like Moses Moody had to get risk surgery after the year,
Pajemski had to get you know, oblique surgery and you know,
(23:45):
something for his thumb, like you know, and that's that's
that's common across the league. It feels like two players
per team have to get some type of like postseason surgery.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
They announced Anthony Davis yesterday had to get like retina surgery.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, detach, like who knew a play like? Yeah? Now,
the only guy that lets us know is Lebron who
came in with that risk leave one time after losing
in the finals.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Oh, by the way, I'm hurt, I'm hurt. The whole.
Speaking of Lebron, Okay, how does the league and all
of your sources feel about Rich Paul's statement, Hey, Lebron
wants to win championships When you just picked up your
(24:31):
own option to remain with l A and you essentially
said we can't win a championship in LA, no matter
how they might backtrack in the future, how does the
league felt about what Rich Paul said?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
It definitely like perked some ears up, you know, because
that's typically you know, kind of the more subtle, passive
aggressive statements is often what has been hinted by you know,
Rich and Lebron of the years, you know, But there's
it's it's really I mean, you're seeing it now. It's
really difficult to like move big contracts in the current
(25:10):
NBA and find you know, teams that can you know,
absorb that type of deal under all these like weird
new Apron rules and all that. So I think it
makes you and it's definitely when you talk to us
in the league, there's there's more of questioning of if
he will finish his career with the Lakers. But unless
he really kind of tries to agitate his way out
of town to a suitor that I'm not sure, you know,
(25:32):
we can come up with it with one right now
that like can kind of fit them in and and
has the motivation. Then I think he's just gonna be
down on the Lakers next year and they're gonna be
pretty good. I mean, I would probably agree that I
wouldn't consider them, you know, an Inner Circle top five
type title contender, but they were the three seed last year.
You know, maybe the eight fit works. Maybe Luca's in shape,
Like I could see them being somewhat of a you know,
(25:53):
fringe threat next year. So he's probably gonna have to
kind of at least somewhat happily. He tried to play that.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Out, one would think, but it's it's just odd, right,
like if you wanted to to me. One part it
says is he doesn't think they don't think he's a
top fifteen player anymore. Because if we all think that
Luca is and then people think Lebron is, well, that's
you're starting from a pretty good spot, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah, it's like, you know, maybe edging towards All Star.
I don't know what you think about the Hayten fit,
but it's it's at least more theoretical capabilities at the
center spot.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Here here's what I think of the eight and fit. Okay,
this would be the just kind of the basketball element
to it. I don't know personality wise what works and
what doesn't work. I don't profess to know. The reason
that Lakers can't win is because if those are your
three best players, they're all minuses at the defensive end. Right.
Lebron at this age doesn't move anymore. Reeves has never
(26:52):
been a particularly a defender, though he does fight, and
Luca is a non defender, and maybe he gets in
shape and fights a little bit more, you know. And
in the NBA you can maybe hide one guy, but
outside of that, can't hide two. And then you know
they wanted rim protection like Deandraden is not a rim protector.
He's also not a lob threat, right, He's a roller
to score, to catch and finish, you know. So does
(27:16):
it fit with Luca because he's a pick and roll option,
I guess. But a guy who's never played well in
the playoffs isn't a rim protector and wants the ball
on rolls is an offensive minded score like Again, I
understand that you're asking something of Polinka, Like, it's not
like he had a blank slake and can pick anybody.
(27:36):
I just don't know how all that group works together
to be anything special in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Yeah, I mean Lucas you know, has worked best in
the past with like the Derek livelys of the world
of Daniel Gaffers, and I would agree. I mean, Aighton's
free throw rate is like ridiculously low for a guy
you know, at his size. I will say, like he
was a starting center and a productive center on a
finals team not that long ago. I mean, obviously that
(28:02):
was kind of Chris Paul operating in the pick and
roll where he doesn't necessarily as much need the lab threat.
But you know, he liked it. And I bet if
you know, you go look at the numbers, like ate
and finished a lot more lobs than Phoenix than he
did in Portland. Now, you know, to your point, I
think you generally throw it to him and he wants to, like,
you know, get the eight footer and do the touch stuff.
And he's not super physical. But as you mentioned, they
(28:25):
didn't have you know, they thirty nine year old Al
Horford wouldn't have been a lob threat. You know, some
of the other options out there on the free agent market.
So I think part of what's going on right now
is the Lakers are taking a somewhat patient approach. They're not,
you know, using all their assets for a Mark Williams.
It seems like they've pulled back from that a little bit.
And that's what I think, you know, going back to
(28:45):
your original question, I think that's what you're feeling with
the Lebron statement, that he's feeling a level of organizational
philosophical shift to a patient, longer term Luka Doncic related approach,
because Lucas twenty six and he's sitting there like, I
don't really have a long term approach, and he's using
whatever tool he believes he has to maybe try to,
you know, leverage a little pressure of like, hey, you know,
(29:07):
let's try to win next season, because next season might
be the final season for him to win.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, I don't. I agree with you. I don't think
next he'll it's not gonna be his final season unless
he gets a farewell tour.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Maybe in LA.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Again, I agree with you, maybe in LA, but I don't.
I don't think he's gonna do the final season thing
without a farewell tour. I just I just.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Don't announce preseason Kobe style. Yeah, celebrated in every arena. Yes,
you're right, You're probably right.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
And and look, I understand to people who don't like Lebron,
they be like, dude, kay, and he's a little bit much,
but he's also the all time leading scorer in NBA history,
who's won four titles and four MVPs and is in
any discussion of Mount Rushmore right, Right, So it's like, yeah,
(29:57):
I mean, if there's ever a guy who kind of
deserves it, like yeah, that's that's not that adult step.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
One of the people that might kind of scoff a
little bit of Lebron would love Kobe, right, And you
remember it, like what was that a twenty win Laker
team that he was just going around to every arena.
They would do a pregame celebration, They would present him
with presents and do tribute videos for him, and then
the home team would beat the Lakers by twenty five points.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Yes, yes, yes, and and and Kobe and and and
the other part was like, look, I know Kobe god rest,
his soul is is now He's been thrust up to
the Mount Rushmore. But there's a lot of things in
his career he wasn't beloved for. There was there was
a lot of nonsense early in his career, and by
the end, you know, Kobe was a different guy, and
(30:41):
he evolved into somebody who was worthy of all of that,
all of all of the praise, not just for the play,
but also he become kind of this philosopher and been
really thoughtful and showing his true love for the sport.
But like, let's not let's not kid ourselves, Like there
was a lot there with Kobe with I want to
be traded, the break up with Shaq and all the
other so it was like he's he knows sat right.
(31:05):
So it's just interesting on how we look back with
colored glasses because of Kobe's passing, but also because Lebron
is so different from Kobe and playing essentially for Kobe's franchise.
Really if that's probably what's hurting him the most has
been the franchise hopping. Speaking of franchise hopping, what about Giannis?
Does he want to stay in Milwaukee or does he
(31:25):
want to play somewhere else?
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Seems like at this temporary moment he has been you know,
a message to the Bucks and certainly to the league
that his feet are where they are in Milwaukee. I'm
not sure there's any type of guarantee how long that's
going to be. But if you're the Bucks and you
make the type of very win now move and mortgage
the future type move that was the Damian Lillard wave
(31:49):
and stretch to fit Miles Turner in like that, you're
doing that under the understanding it would seem that Giannis
is at least in on the start of next season
and you're trying to maximize next season because if suddenly,
you know, Jannie in August September ask out prior to
this season, like what a disaster move that you know,
(32:09):
Lillard thing would look like because you got twenty two
million on the books for the next five years dead Caps,
so you know, for now it seems be honest will
be in Milwaukee, you know, But that does seem like
it's a you know, temporary thing that that could become
more permanent depending on how they look and how they
play and how their future looks.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Tomorrow night in Vegas, Cooper Flag and the Dallas Mavericks
take on Brownie James. Brownie struggled last night, but very
few people pay attention to the Cali Games. You've been
around this thing for a while, right, you have the
Zion hype, the Wembley hype. Right, there's there's Wemby was
was pretty big. Where does this one rank in terms
of the Vegas Thomas and Mack Summer League for Opening
(32:52):
night hype?
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Well, I heard it's like the most expensive ticket ever.
There was a twenty five hundred court side or something
like that. It's it's not even just like obviously, you know,
Cooper Flag's a big name and Broni is, but just
the event itself has just exploded there. You know, you'll
go to you know Day three, you know, Pelicans Knicks
with maybe one lottery pick on the floor and it's
(33:15):
like pretty pretty packed. So it's just I think it's
just become such an impressive event for the league in general.
And typically you do on that that first second night
get you know, the first overall pick, oftentimes going against
the second overall pick. I think just because of the
the Lakers territory, which is you know, Vegas in a sense,
in Bronnie's name, they matched up Cooper Flag and Bronni,
(33:36):
so it'll be it'll be cool, but at the same time,
like I remember Wemby walking into the arena and the
buzz of it. I remember the Zion game for the
earthquake and in Vegas and then the that was the
night Paul George and Kawhi Leonard like that bomb got
dropped on the league and that they were going to
the Clippers together. But I actually don't really remember much
from Zion's game or Wemby's actual game.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Andrew enjoyed the game. Let's talk again soon, can't can't
wait to read your work on Summer League and all
all this other stuff going on. Andrews later pick up
his stuff, read this stuff in the Athletic. He's outstanding.
Thanks for joining us in the Herd. Thank Anthony said,
I'm sorry, Anthony.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
I'm I'm here.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I'm one arm paper hanging it. Thanks so much, Anthony.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yep one more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours
a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app.
Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
What up. Welcome in. This is the Herd, wherever you
may be or however you may be making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug got leave
in for Colin Cowhard callings back thanks Monday, after a
good old fashioned week off, Keith Law's going to join
us Senior Major League Baseball Senior MLB senior writer for
The Athletic. We'll get his thoughts on what's wrong with
(34:54):
the Dodgers and how about this MISERROWSI pretty pretty amazing stuff,
and what about the guy leading the Bigs in home
runs plays in Seattle dead Ballpark, a dead ball ballpark
of all places. Plus we got Major League Baseball's Draft
up coming this weekend as well, A lot to get
to with Keith Law. I want to start with this.
(35:18):
So there's a new season of The Quarterback on Netflix
and a guy who I do think that America sort
of fell in love with watching this series going back
two years ago, was Kirk Cousins. And we talked to
start the show. If you're just joining us, Doug goleli'ben
(35:40):
for Colin. We talked about how WNBA players, I think
the best term would be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans
and media for so long. Now they're like taking it
out on Caitlin Clark. I think Kirk Cousins is a
guy that's had a lot of AMMO. Picked in the
fourth round from a team that drafted a first round
(36:01):
starting quarterback who was Rookie of the Year that year
in RG three, and then when it became his franchise,
felt like they didn't like him. There heck, the president
of the team in an interview kept calling him Kirk Cousin.
When his name is Kirk Cousins. I'd like, again, you're
showing somebody disrespect if he don't even know their name
(36:22):
right repeatedly, Yes, I know, I know I screwed up
last out, but my point is when it's and again,
it was like Bruce Allen was like, eight times, I
want to talk about Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins. Kirk Couins, Like,
name's Kirk, and I work for you and I'm starting quarterback.
So Kirk has spent time exacting his own personal revenge
(36:46):
for people who didn't think he was good enough. Got
the fully guaranteed contract, got the extension of Minnesota, won
a road playoff game in New Orleans, proved on some
level that he's better than advertised in primetime games, and
then departs at the end of last season. Now full
disclosure end of last season, he had torn his achilles tendon.
(37:07):
He was on his way to an unbelievable year in
the neighborhood of six thousand yards passing that season. But
Kirk Cousins struggled from about the midpoint this year and
ultimately got pulled for Michael Pennix, who was the top
ten pick of the Falcons. Too many people's surprise, like
you're going to sign Kirk Cousins then draft a first
(37:30):
round pick quarterback. That seems weird. So in that season
of the quarterback with the new season the quarterback. Here's
what Cousins had to say about it, if he could
do it all over again.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback so high at
the time. It felt like I had been a little
bit misled, or certainly if I had the information around freegency,
it certainly would have affected my decision. I had no
reason to leave Minnesota with how much we loved it
there if both are going to be drafting a quarterback high.
But I've also learned in twelve years in this league
(38:04):
that you're not entitled anything.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
It's all about.
Speaker 6 (38:07):
Being able to earn your spot and prove yourself.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, so he like backtracks, is like, hey, you know
you're in your spot. You prove yourself whatever. But had
I known, look this this one's this one seems pretty obvious.
I get that he likes it, but the buyer's remorse
that Cousins has like keep in mind that again, Cousins
(38:35):
has won in the business of sports. He's the guy
who's done no extra years. Just give me the years,
give me the money, make it all guaranteed. He and
that work for him of Minnesota. But Minnesota was moving on,
Make no mistake about it. They were moving on. They
had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and other pieces,
(38:58):
and they had made the decision, Hey, we're gonna go
get a first round pick. And then they signed Sam
Darnold as a as a placeholder or just in case.
And remember he had worked in that offensive system when
he was in San Francisco the two years previously. Like
this is one of those things that it sounds really
(39:18):
good in documentaries, like man, if I knew they were
taking a first run pick and Minnesota's taking a first
run pick, and I love Minnesota, I would have stayed
in Minnesota's Like what are you talking about Kirk. They
weren't gonna pay you at Minnesota what Atlanta pays you.
You know, they just weren't. You know, It's like, yeah,
(39:40):
I totally would have stayed there, would you really? Again,
that's cow, that's fertilizer, That's what that is. Remember, he
essentially signed a two year deals four years, one eighty okay,
(40:01):
ninety million guaranteed at at signing. Minnesota wasn't giving you that, Like,
what are you even talking about? Yeah, hey, had I
known that they were gonna do that? Like I didn't.
I didn't know they were gonna do that. And again,
does it look great for Atlanta to draft a quarterback? Actually,
now it really does because Kirk Cousins, who apparently got
(40:26):
hit and you know, decided to play well hurt because
he knows that, you know, one of the one of
the biggest lies. There's lots of lies told in the NFL,
but the old you don't lose your job to injury,
Like what did true Bledsoell lose his job to injury?
Of course he did. Lots of guys have lost their
(40:46):
job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently took a hit
to his shoulder and didn't tell any you know now's
I didn't tell anybody that I was. I was hurt. Like, yeah,
you were playing, you're playing well, and then all of
a sudden your production fell off a cliff. He played
(41:07):
fourteen games. Let's not act like Atlanta did you wrong.
Oh man, Atlanta, they did me wrong. They gave you
fourteen games, and the last couple of which were bad.
You threw eighteen touchdowns and sixteen interceptions. Like, I can't
believe they drafted another quarterback. Why because you were coming
off of an achilles tendon tear and they gave you
(41:31):
ninety guaranteed so you're gonna get paid this year. They'll
probably trade you when somebody else's quarterback goes down, and
you'll get a chance because you'll get you know, nobody's
gonna pick up that option, and you'll get another contract
next year. I just don't lie to us and go like, hey,
(41:55):
if I knew that that Atlanta was gonna draft the quarterback,
I would have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't, because
they weren't gonna give you ninety million dollars. Stop lying, also,
NFL players, stop lying about we don't have guaranteed contricks.
You do, they're just not all fully guaranteed. And the
ones that are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you
want to read in the paper. I don't know, just
(42:20):
the manipulation or and and some of it is. Again,
this is how any athlete, Kirk Cousins can think that way,
because the whole world has done me wrong and I
proved them wrong time and again. Is how he's made it. Okay,
But again let's not kid ourselves. Okay, that he wasn't
(42:45):
staying in Minnesota, and he was coming off an Achilles
ten and tear. And if you think that Minnesota, where
he'd had sort of an up and down run there
ended on the up, he was playing really well in
that system. But if you think they were gonna him
a four year, two years of a guaranteed contract, and
oh yeah, by the way, when a guy stays, he
wants to get paid more, not less. There's no homegrown
(43:06):
discount in the NFL. I think Kirk Cousins is trying
to rewrite history and get a sympathetic year. And no
one's really sympathetic, not because we don't like him, just
because dude, you're still getting paid. You're going to get
another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell
us that Minnesota was going to keep you when they
didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year.
(43:29):
Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate
under the San Francisco model. As long as they can
get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible.
That's the San Francisco model.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
What Up?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Welcome in this heers the Herd wherever you may be
and however you may be, making this part of your day.
Thanks so much. I've done gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd,
and for the next couple of hours, I want to
talk sports with you from Powway to Escodito to oh
(00:51):
Time Mesa. Welcome in, Good to be back on in
La on AM five seventy the home Peeps and all
throughout the country on the Heart family of networks as
well as the iHeartRadio Welcome Bookman. So in the I
was today years old that I learned right, You learn
(01:12):
lots of things. It's weird as you get older. Right now,
I coach college kids. I'm a head coach of Wisconsin
Green Bay and it again I have a really good
group of young men that want to learn, want to
get better at basketball. We try and teach them about
life a little bit. And you know, college is just
(01:35):
in a weird sort of phase where so many schools
because of COVID went online, and then you factor in chat,
GPT and everything else. How much are kids actually learning?
But the biggest difference between a kid in an adult,
I think there's two or three things. Right, Like, you
(01:57):
know you're an adult when you'd ever turned down a nap.
It never turned down a nap. I mean, ask tuy
and and even Ryan who doesn't have kids. If you
go like, hey, man, two o'clock, what if I if
I give you like an hour to shut off your
phone and take a nap, there isn't an adult life
(02:18):
that'll be like, yeah, down for that. A kid, you say, hey,
take a nap. You know, after you get to like
two years old, you're done with naps. Adults, well, adults,
they will order vegetables or order salads or actually ask
for them for dinner. Most kids like what why you
(02:40):
have to make them eat vegetables, make them eat legomes,
make them eat eat fruits. Right, that's the difference. In adults,
And the other thing about adults as opposed to kids
is I don't know if you're like this when you
do the whole You know, you help your kid with
their homework, But man, you get to a certain age
and you're like, man, I kind of like learning. Maybe
(03:03):
it was how we were taught, maybe it was the teachers,
maybe it was our desire to do other things. But
I remember being in school and I just could not
wait for every day to be over, as opposed to now, Damn,
I love learning things. I just do. Sunday I learned
that a handball in soccer was not just simply the
(03:26):
ball touching a non goalkeeper's hand. I literally, Monday, I
walked in and I was like, man, I didn't know
that the ball could graze your hand, and if it
was in the natural motion of whatever you were doing
as as an athlete in soccer, it didn't mean it
(03:47):
was a handball. I don't know did anybody know that.
I mean, I'm sure like soccer guys like, yeah, you're dope. Hey,
I played soccer growing up. I don't remember any of
that stuff. I just remember the tunnel, I remember caprice on,
I remember scoring goals I you know, I don't remember
any of that. So I love learning, and I'll tell
(04:11):
you something I learned today. Okay, there was a playwright
in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds, mostly seventeen hundreds. His
name was William Congreeve. You're like, why are you telling
me about a playwright, because he's the one who authored
up the phrase, hell hath no fury like a woman scorn,
(04:35):
hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn. Have you
ever heard that? If you haven't heard that, when I
bet he also said you must not kiss and tell,
so kiss and tell, and hell hath no worries, hell
hath no wrath like a scorned woman. That's that we
changed the words, that changed the order of it, right
we hell hath no furry like a woman's scorn. That
(05:01):
was William Congreve, who is a famous playwright in the
sixteen and seventeen hundreds. I was born in sixteen seventy
died in seventeen twenty nine, And like, why are you
starting out with that? Saying, well, I'll tell you. I
also learned that apparently there's not a true standalone version
(05:23):
of it, but a video game within a video game
for EA Sports. So EA Sports has two K? Or
is it EA Sports has two K? You're familiar with
two K, okay, so apparently there's also a WNBA version
of two K. And I get it right, Like what
(05:45):
is two K? If you take away all the dunks
and the made layups and three points and the high
percentage of made three point shots, and you have WNBA.
But there is no denying the WNBA's sudden rise in popularity.
And for those of us who are honest with ourselves,
it's because of Kaitlyn Clark. And you know, we can
(06:09):
get into the reasons why I love the people that
fall on the race aspect of it. When then you
point out, like, hey, Sabrina in Escu and Kelsey Plumb
were great women's college basketball players who came to the league,
had have been great WNBA players, and they have not
received any amount of the acclaim of a Caitlin Clark.
(06:30):
There's a bunch of different factors, mostly likely the logo threes,
the hey we love Steph Curry And here's the closest
version of it, who happened to play the same school
for four years, happen to take her to a team
to two straight final fours happened, looks like everybody else's
little sister, right, all of those things she kind of nails.
(06:56):
But upon my quest to learn something every day, I
found out that there's an NBA two K version focusing
on the WNBA. But here's the kicker. The cover choice
was Angel Rees was Angel Rees. And it just continues
(07:18):
this pattern of the WNBA doing everything in their power
to I don't know if it's diminished Caitlin Clark or
to promote everybody other than Kaitlin Clark, but whatever it is,
we try and search for reasons, and I keep falling
(07:40):
back on hell hath no wrath, like a woman scorned
William Cornelius in the late sixteen hundreds, and like, wait
a second, why are they scored? Caitlin Clark said nothing
negative towards any of these women. She doesn't have to.
The only logical conclusion as to why so many of
(08:01):
these women have done everything in their power to marginalize
he rise to fame and what it's done for the
entire sport of women's basketball is that you have women
that feel like they've been scorned by media, by mainstream
fans for their entire lives and it it comes out
(08:29):
as anger and resentment towards Caitlin Clark. Does that make sense.
There's something called the Have you ever heard the anger Iceberg?
If you go through therapy, people tell you it's you
learn the anger Iceberg That people are angry and they
get snappy with one of the other in like relationships,
and it's not about that one thing. It's about all
(08:51):
this other thing, all the insecurities, all the mistrust, all
the times of other relationships that have gone bad, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, And it comes out as snapiness
towards one another. And any relationship you have, even in business,
you pocket resentment towards somebody else getting in promotion, somebody
(09:12):
else getting shine, You not feeling like you're heard in
a meeting, you having a bad interaction with somebody at
a Christmas party or whatever. For these women, okay, remember
I see it as most of us see it. I'm
Doug Gottliebin for Collin. This is the herd twenty five
(09:34):
years of the WNBA. I'm not as negative about their
overall talent and skill as others are. It's a different sport.
Our expectations are different we don't have the one hundred
years of history in the NBA, and we just don't
if you take away the NBA with the dunks and
the proficiency from three point line, you know, And the
(09:57):
other part about NBA players is they look like superheroes,
whereas many of those women though for women, crazy athletic,
crazy talented, they're just is no comparison. When you watch
one game to other, it's like watching one in slow
motion and one that plays below the rim, and below
the rim causes more mislay ups, and it's again just
(10:20):
a different, much less athletic game. And for twenty five years,
we didn't pay attention to it in sports media and
I've been a part of sports media for twenty five years.
We didn't pay attention to it because nobody did the
science to this is not that hard to figure out, Gollen.
(10:44):
This is me doing the Colin thing. Cullen, You only
want to talk about Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes and
Aaron Rodgers and Lebron James. Yeah, because we're no different
than top forty radio man play the hits. Our job
is to talk about what most people care about, and
we have twenty five years of data that tells you
(11:05):
most people don't care about the WNBA. And the only
reason we're talking about it now is because Caitlin Clark
has brought attention and people are in fact talking about
the WNBA now. So now we're going to be attractive
talking more about it. But when you're raised as a
women's basketball player, you're raised to believe everybody's out to
(11:30):
get you. Everybody's out to get you. Look, I don't
know if you recall, but if you go back to
the COVID year NCAA tournament, they had women who were
in San Antonio and they had a little makeshift weight
(11:52):
room and it was like, you know, two dumbells and
you know, and a balance ball. And then they showed
them men's weight room in Indianapolis and it looked like
a we're a weight room. And what happens is, you know,
the the NCAA like apologize for it. It acts like
this was this was discrediting all of women's basketball. When
(12:17):
reality is one, it comes down to the planning committee,
that's what they have to do. Two, the men's teams,
I believe all of them were there for like a month,
so they had to prep for it, and they had
the Big ten tournament there, so they had all this
had all been kind of planned out, whereas for San
Antonio it was just a one stop shop and they
threw it together. And anybody who's ever traveled knows that, like,
(12:41):
it doesn't matter the hotel chain. You can be a
Hyatt guy, right or a Bonvoy guy, and and some
hotels have a rinking, dank weight room and some hotels don't.
It doesn't have anything to do with anything other than
that particular hotel, that particular general manager and what they
think they want to focus their resources on. But the
point is that that case is no different than anything else.
(13:05):
Why do women have home sites during the NCAA tournament
instead of the regional sites that the men have, Well, again,
anyone who's realistic in business knows that the reason they
went back to home sites is that's their only ability
to draw people and to sell tickets. They've played in
the big arenas. It hasn't worked, by and large. Trust me,
(13:25):
if the NCAAFL like they can make more money doing it,
they would do it because it's the only way in
which they make money is the men's and women's NCAA
basketball tournaments. But Again, how you and I view it
from a business perspective, which is very much in the
neutral kind of corner, is hey, they're doing it because
it makes the most sense financially. How women view it is, oh,
(13:47):
we're a secondary tournament. We have to play in home sites. Right,
So it doesn't matter necessarily what the reality of women's
basketball was over the last twenty five years, right, that
you started from nothing and built it into something that
was fairly sustainable. Again, those of us who lived it
(14:09):
in real time, as I have, like my media career,
has mirrored essentially the length of the WNBA. You went
from being completely subsidized by the NBA playing in these
gargantuan arenas to hey, let's dial this back, play in
smaller venues, be smarter, Okay, save more money, fly commercial
space out the games, et cetera, et cetera. But how
(14:34):
it's received is we've been treated like crap for years,
and now you're trying to push this star who she
might be another Jeremy Lynn linsanity, and we're not buying it.
So when I saw that quote today, I just and
(14:55):
then I saw that the two K version of NBA
two K had angel Rees, not Caitlin Clark on the cover, right,
Because again whether or not you're buying or I'm buying
a WNBA two K game doesn't matter. Right, everything would
(15:15):
be boosted up if you put Caitlin Clark on. It
probably cost you know, the gaming company more to put
her on the cover. But the WNBA forcing us to
take on Angel Reese as some sort of rival to
Caitlin Clark, forcing it, forcing it, forcing it makes it
feel icky, whereas it's super easy here. Just put Caitlin
(15:40):
Clark on everything. It'll sell more. It'll be the rising
tide that lifts all ships. But from the Olympic team
last year, to the players only voting where they voted
her the ninth best guard, to put an Angel Rees
on NBA two K, to all the bitterness and pushback
(16:02):
and the treatment of Caitlyn Clark where they're clearly trying
to punk her and bully her and her teammates, and
to making and look bad. All of that stuff leads
most of us to go, why would you do that?
Why wouldn't you embrace the fact that people are paying
attention to your sport, covering it like it's one of
(16:23):
the big three sports? Probably got more coverage in the
NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, and the only logical conclusion I
can come to is hell hath no wrath like as
a woman scored. All the years of being made to
feel like you're a secondary or tertiary product, and probably
(16:44):
even tertiary's not as strong as they were leads women
to push back against anything seen as mainstream media and fans.
Oh now you like us, but only for her? Well,
put to you two. Give me your thoughts Twitter, Instagram
at Gottlieb Show. In the meantime, Okay, we do have
(17:06):
some NBA news chet Holmegrin, reups for the Max, reups
for the Max. What does that mean for the Thunder
and their ability to maintain the best record in the
regular season and a postseason championship. Let's discuss it next.
(17:28):
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Hurd.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Hey what's up, everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Harrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game? What is up on Game?
You ass along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Huschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Of talent on it.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Up on Game We're going to be sharing our real
life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on
Game with me lebar Arrington, t J. Hutchman, Zada, and
Plexico Birds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
From Doug Otliebit for Collinis, the Hurt Fox Sports Radio
iHeartRadio app. Welcome in huh So the big news in
the NBA today as we get ready for real NBA
(18:41):
Summer League, which is Las Vegas. Yes again, and I'm
it may sound disrespectful for the I forget where the
California Golden State games are. Is the one everyone hyper
focuses on is in Las Vegas. Uh And we'll we'll
get to that up in the show. Because the Lakers
played yesterday. The Lakers are the signature nightcap in the
(19:06):
Summer League, opening night against the Dallas Mavericks, and of
course the Dallas Mavericks have the number one overall pick
and the Lakers have Brownie James and it's a it's
it'll be something. But let's let's dig in with Anthony Slater,
of course covers the league for the Athletic He joins
us now in the herd, Anthony, let me let me
(19:27):
ask you about Chet holmbern So announce today that Chet
Holmgren agrees to terms on a max contract on a
max contract to remain in Oklahoma City. And he's really
only played like a season and a half. If you're
an Oklahoma City fan or you're hopeful of a dynasty there,
does what does this do for you?
Speaker 5 (19:49):
I mean, I think it's just checked the box that
you knew was coming. And the other, the one that's
coming soon is gonna be Jamn Williams, who has the
same agent, Bill Duffy, which I'm sure you know helps
and leverage the negotiat. But you know, Jaylen Williams is
gonna get his max, and his max if he's makes
all NBA again, would actually be even higher than Chess.
And you know we're talking about rookie max is. I
(20:10):
know sometimes we just everybody just says max. They're different,
you know, percentages of the cap and this is you know,
the fresher one. But you know, you're you're getting the
next six years of Chet Holmers early prime into his prime.
Sure he's not your you know, prototype number two certainly
as a score, I think he's got higher upside there. Uh,
but I mean he's a rim protecting three point shooter
(20:32):
at seven feet tall. To me, like, you know, that
is a very valuable piece for a team that wants
to win with defense first. Uh, and you saw it
in the play you know we can? We can kind
of at times. I certainly did you know their first
playoff run together when they lost in the second round,
and though they're the one seed, I kind of wondered
if Jaylen Williams and Chet Hoolmer could be a legitimate
number two, number three on a title team. Well that
(20:54):
question kind of was answered a month ago.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah. I mean, I think the question for for Chet
is twofold one. Can he stay healthy?
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Right, that's the big thing. Can you stay healthy? And
then at some point Kenny regained confidence in his shooting.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Yeah? Fair, I mean, yeah, it's a it's a it's
a good question. But I think even the version of
Chet you saw really impacts winning. You know, it's he's
going to protect the rim at a high level. There
was times even in those finals. You know, I can
remember in a couple of the losses, certainly you know,
his his shooting, you know, I think he went too
(21:28):
and nine in the game one loss and was really
hard on himself. And I remember late in one of
the games in Indiana, Miles Turner kind of you know,
wiped away a couple of his shots, and those flaws
seem to you know, percolate a little bit. But also
I can remember him, like, you know, walling off the
rim in important stretches of those finals. But yes, if
he like he has the next level to get to,
(21:49):
that I think I would agree with you that his
health will determine because he spent all last summer really
kind of like grinding and getting his offense, I think
to a higher level. I think I went to their
O the night game in Denver and he like outplayed Jokis.
I think he had like twenty five fourteen and five blocks.
And then about two weeks later, I'm at a game
in Oklahoma City and Andrew Wiggins just plows through him
and he breaks his hip and then he's bedridden for
(22:12):
six weeks, he's out for you know, fifty games whatever
he ended up missing last season. I think that really
stunted his offensive growth. But yeah, I would agree that
long term for him to like probably be worth that contract.
When we're in the middle years and you know, you're
talking fifty million or whatever it's going to be, you'd
want him, you know, eighteen nineteen per game, maybe like
a thirty eight percent at least three point shooter and
(22:34):
more of a supplementary score. Because the other part of
this is they're about to get really expensive and some
of that depth that's been around them is going to
kind of melt away.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Right, Yeah, it will. But to kind of you mentioned
Jaylem Williams, what do you make of the fact he
just shared that he received about thirty injections during the
playoffs just to be able to get that that that
right wrist functional to play through the NBA finals.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
To me, it's a I mean, it's impressive, right, and
then it didn't come out, and you know, he still
played well. He had a foty point game in the finals. Like,
I don't think his shooting was to his standard the
whole playoffs, but he had a really good playoffs and
generally and you know, knowing what he went through with
the ritch, that that makes it more impressive to me.
But I also think it's more of another example of
like a lot of times we don't know what most
(23:24):
of these guys are going through physically. I'd say, you know,
eighty percent of the league by you know, middle of
the playoffs has sometime a bumper bruise that sounded like
a more extreme version of one, right, the torn wrist.
But you know, like the Warriors, for example, had two
like Moses Moody had to get risk surgery after the year,
Pajemski had to get you know, oblique surgery and you know,
(23:45):
something for his thumb, like you know, and that's that's
that's common across the league. It feels like two players
per team have to get some type of like postseason surgery.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
They announced Anthony Davis yesterday had to get like retina surgery.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, detach, like who knew a play like? Yeah? Now,
the only guy that lets us know is Lebron who
came in with that risk leave one time after losing
in the finals.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Oh, by the way, I'm hurt, I'm hurt. The whole.
Speaking of Lebron, Okay, how does the league and all
of your sources feel about Rich Paul's statement, Hey, Lebron
wants to win championships When you just picked up your
(24:31):
own option to remain with l A and you essentially
said we can't win a championship in LA, no matter
how they might backtrack in the future, how does the
league felt about what Rich Paul said?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
It definitely like perked some ears up, you know, because
that's typically you know, kind of the more subtle, passive
aggressive statements is often what has been hinted by you know,
Rich and Lebron of the years, you know, But there's
it's it's really I mean, you're seeing it now. It's
really difficult to like move big contracts in the current
(25:10):
NBA and find you know, teams that can you know,
absorb that type of deal under all these like weird
new Apron rules and all that. So I think it
makes you and it's definitely when you talk to us
in the league, there's there's more of questioning of if
he will finish his career with the Lakers. But unless
he really kind of tries to agitate his way out
of town to a suitor that I'm not sure, you know,
(25:32):
we can come up with it with one right now
that like can kind of fit them in and and
has the motivation. Then I think he's just gonna be
down on the Lakers next year and they're gonna be
pretty good. I mean, I would probably agree that I
wouldn't consider them, you know, an Inner Circle top five
type title contender, but they were the three seed last year.
You know, maybe the eight fit works. Maybe Luca's in shape,
Like I could see them being somewhat of a you know,
(25:53):
fringe threat next year. So he's probably gonna have to
kind of at least somewhat happily. He tried to play that.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Out, one would think, but it's it's just odd, right,
like if you wanted to to me. One part it
says is he doesn't think they don't think he's a
top fifteen player anymore. Because if we all think that
Luca is and then people think Lebron is, well, that's
you're starting from a pretty good spot, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah, it's like, you know, maybe edging towards All Star.
I don't know what you think about the Hayten fit,
but it's it's at least more theoretical capabilities at the
center spot.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Here here's what I think of the eight and fit. Okay,
this would be the just kind of the basketball element
to it. I don't know personality wise what works and
what doesn't work. I don't profess to know. The reason
that Lakers can't win is because if those are your
three best players, they're all minuses at the defensive end. Right.
Lebron at this age doesn't move anymore. Reeves has never
(26:52):
been a particularly a defender, though he does fight, and
Luca is a non defender, and maybe he gets in
shape and fights a little bit more, you know. And
in the NBA you can maybe hide one guy, but
outside of that, can't hide two. And then you know
they wanted rim protection like Deandraden is not a rim protector.
He's also not a lob threat, right, He's a roller
to score, to catch and finish, you know. So does
(27:16):
it fit with Luca because he's a pick and roll option,
I guess. But a guy who's never played well in
the playoffs isn't a rim protector and wants the ball
on rolls is an offensive minded score like Again, I
understand that you're asking something of Polinka, Like, it's not
like he had a blank slake and can pick anybody.
(27:36):
I just don't know how all that group works together
to be anything special in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Yeah, I mean Lucas you know, has worked best in
the past with like the Derek livelys of the world
of Daniel Gaffers, and I would agree. I mean, Aighton's
free throw rate is like ridiculously low for a guy
you know, at his size. I will say, like he
was a starting center and a productive center on a
finals team not that long ago. I mean, obviously that
(28:02):
was kind of Chris Paul operating in the pick and
roll where he doesn't necessarily as much need the lab threat.
But you know, he liked it. And I bet if
you know, you go look at the numbers, like ate
and finished a lot more lobs than Phoenix than he
did in Portland. Now, you know, to your point, I
think you generally throw it to him and he wants to, like,
you know, get the eight footer and do the touch stuff.
And he's not super physical. But as you mentioned, they
(28:25):
didn't have you know, they thirty nine year old Al
Horford wouldn't have been a lob threat. You know, some
of the other options out there on the free agent market.
So I think part of what's going on right now
is the Lakers are taking a somewhat patient approach. They're not,
you know, using all their assets for a Mark Williams.
It seems like they've pulled back from that a little bit.
And that's what I think, you know, going back to
(28:45):
your original question, I think that's what you're feeling with
the Lebron statement, that he's feeling a level of organizational
philosophical shift to a patient, longer term Luka Doncic related approach,
because Lucas twenty six and he's sitting there like, I
don't really have a long term approach, and he's using
whatever tool he believes he has to maybe try to,
you know, leverage a little pressure of like, hey, you know,
(29:07):
let's try to win next season, because next season might
be the final season for him to win.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, I don't. I agree with you. I don't think
next he'll it's not gonna be his final season unless
he gets a farewell tour.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Maybe in LA.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Again, I agree with you, maybe in LA, but I don't.
I don't think he's gonna do the final season thing
without a farewell tour. I just I just.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Don't announce preseason Kobe style. Yeah, celebrated in every arena. Yes,
you're right, You're probably right.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
And and look, I understand to people who don't like Lebron,
they be like, dude, kay, and he's a little bit much,
but he's also the all time leading scorer in NBA history,
who's won four titles and four MVPs and is in
any discussion of Mount Rushmore right, Right, So it's like, yeah,
(29:57):
I mean, if there's ever a guy who kind of
deserves it, like yeah, that's that's not that adult step.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
One of the people that might kind of scoff a
little bit of Lebron would love Kobe, right, And you
remember it, like what was that a twenty win Laker
team that he was just going around to every arena.
They would do a pregame celebration, They would present him
with presents and do tribute videos for him, and then
the home team would beat the Lakers by twenty five points.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Yes, yes, yes, and and and Kobe and and and
the other part was like, look, I know Kobe god rest,
his soul is is now He's been thrust up to
the Mount Rushmore. But there's a lot of things in
his career he wasn't beloved for. There was there was
a lot of nonsense early in his career, and by
the end, you know, Kobe was a different guy, and
(30:41):
he evolved into somebody who was worthy of all of that,
all of all of the praise, not just for the play,
but also he become kind of this philosopher and been
really thoughtful and showing his true love for the sport.
But like, let's not let's not kid ourselves, Like there
was a lot there with Kobe with I want to
be traded, the break up with Shaq and all the
other so it was like he's he knows sat right.
(31:05):
So it's just interesting on how we look back with
colored glasses because of Kobe's passing, but also because Lebron
is so different from Kobe and playing essentially for Kobe's franchise.
Really if that's probably what's hurting him the most has
been the franchise hopping. Speaking of franchise hopping, what about Giannis?
Does he want to stay in Milwaukee or does he
(31:25):
want to play somewhere else?
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Seems like at this temporary moment he has been you know,
a message to the Bucks and certainly to the league
that his feet are where they are in Milwaukee. I'm
not sure there's any type of guarantee how long that's
going to be. But if you're the Bucks and you
make the type of very win now move and mortgage
the future type move that was the Damian Lillard wave
(31:49):
and stretch to fit Miles Turner in like that, you're
doing that under the understanding it would seem that Giannis
is at least in on the start of next season
and you're trying to maximize next season because if suddenly,
you know, Jannie in August September ask out prior to
this season, like what a disaster move that you know,
(32:09):
Lillard thing would look like because you got twenty two
million on the books for the next five years dead Caps,
so you know, for now it seems be honest will
be in Milwaukee, you know, But that does seem like
it's a you know, temporary thing that that could become
more permanent depending on how they look and how they
play and how their future looks.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Tomorrow night in Vegas, Cooper Flag and the Dallas Mavericks
take on Brownie James. Brownie struggled last night, but very
few people pay attention to the Cali Games. You've been
around this thing for a while, right, you have the
Zion hype, the Wembley hype. Right, there's there's Wemby was
was pretty big. Where does this one rank in terms
of the Vegas Thomas and Mack Summer League for Opening
(32:52):
night hype?
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Well, I heard it's like the most expensive ticket ever.
There was a twenty five hundred court side or something
like that. It's it's not even just like obviously, you know,
Cooper Flag's a big name and Broni is, but just
the event itself has just exploded there. You know, you'll
go to you know Day three, you know, Pelicans Knicks
with maybe one lottery pick on the floor and it's
(33:15):
like pretty pretty packed. So it's just I think it's
just become such an impressive event for the league in general.
And typically you do on that that first second night
get you know, the first overall pick, oftentimes going against
the second overall pick. I think just because of the
the Lakers territory, which is you know, Vegas in a sense,
in Bronnie's name, they matched up Cooper Flag and Bronni,
(33:36):
so it'll be it'll be cool, but at the same time,
like I remember Wemby walking into the arena and the
buzz of it. I remember the Zion game for the
earthquake and in Vegas and then the that was the
night Paul George and Kawhi Leonard like that bomb got
dropped on the league and that they were going to
the Clippers together. But I actually don't really remember much
from Zion's game or Wemby's actual game.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Andrew enjoyed the game. Let's talk again soon, can't can't
wait to read your work on Summer League and all
all this other stuff going on. Andrews later pick up
his stuff, read this stuff in the Athletic. He's outstanding.
Thanks for joining us in the Herd. Thank Anthony said,
I'm sorry, Anthony.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
I'm I'm here.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I'm one arm paper hanging it. Thanks so much, Anthony.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yep one more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours
a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app.
Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
What up. Welcome in. This is the Herd, wherever you
may be or however you may be making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug got leave
in for Colin Cowhard callings back thanks Monday, after a
good old fashioned week off, Keith Law's going to join
us Senior Major League Baseball Senior MLB senior writer for
The Athletic. We'll get his thoughts on what's wrong with
(34:54):
the Dodgers and how about this MISERROWSI pretty pretty amazing stuff,
and what about the guy leading the Bigs in home
runs plays in Seattle dead Ballpark, a dead ball ballpark
of all places. Plus we got Major League Baseball's Draft
up coming this weekend as well, A lot to get
to with Keith Law. I want to start with this.
(35:18):
So there's a new season of The Quarterback on Netflix
and a guy who I do think that America sort
of fell in love with watching this series going back
two years ago, was Kirk Cousins. And we talked to
start the show. If you're just joining us, Doug goleli'ben
(35:40):
for Colin. We talked about how WNBA players, I think
the best term would be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans
and media for so long. Now they're like taking it
out on Caitlin Clark. I think Kirk Cousins is a
guy that's had a lot of AMMO. Picked in the
fourth round from a team that drafted a first round
(36:01):
starting quarterback who was Rookie of the Year that year
in RG three, and then when it became his franchise,
felt like they didn't like him. There heck, the president
of the team in an interview kept calling him Kirk Cousin.
When his name is Kirk Cousins. I'd like, again, you're
showing somebody disrespect if he don't even know their name
(36:22):
right repeatedly, Yes, I know, I know I screwed up
last out, but my point is when it's and again,
it was like Bruce Allen was like, eight times, I
want to talk about Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins. Kirk Couins, Like,
name's Kirk, and I work for you and I'm starting quarterback.
So Kirk has spent time exacting his own personal revenge
(36:46):
for people who didn't think he was good enough. Got
the fully guaranteed contract, got the extension of Minnesota, won
a road playoff game in New Orleans, proved on some
level that he's better than advertised in primetime games, and
then departs at the end of last season. Now full
disclosure end of last season, he had torn his achilles tendon.
(37:07):
He was on his way to an unbelievable year in
the neighborhood of six thousand yards passing that season. But
Kirk Cousins struggled from about the midpoint this year and
ultimately got pulled for Michael Pennix, who was the top
ten pick of the Falcons. Too many people's surprise, like
you're going to sign Kirk Cousins then draft a first
(37:30):
round pick quarterback. That seems weird. So in that season
of the quarterback with the new season the quarterback. Here's
what Cousins had to say about it, if he could
do it all over again.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback so high at
the time. It felt like I had been a little
bit misled, or certainly if I had the information around freegency,
it certainly would have affected my decision. I had no
reason to leave Minnesota with how much we loved it
there if both are going to be drafting a quarterback high.
But I've also learned in twelve years in this league
(38:04):
that you're not entitled anything.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
It's all about.
Speaker 6 (38:07):
Being able to earn your spot and prove yourself.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yeah, so he like backtracks, is like, hey, you know
you're in your spot. You prove yourself whatever. But had
I known, look this this one's this one seems pretty obvious.
I get that he likes it, but the buyer's remorse
that Cousins has like keep in mind that again, Cousins
(38:35):
has won in the business of sports. He's the guy
who's done no extra years. Just give me the years,
give me the money, make it all guaranteed. He and
that work for him of Minnesota. But Minnesota was moving on,
Make no mistake about it. They were moving on. They
had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and other pieces,
(38:58):
and they had made the decision, Hey, we're gonna go
get a first round pick. And then they signed Sam
Darnold as a as a placeholder or just in case.
And remember he had worked in that offensive system when
he was in San Francisco the two years previously. Like
this is one of those things that it sounds really
(39:18):
good in documentaries, like man, if I knew they were
taking a first run pick and Minnesota's taking a first
run pick, and I love Minnesota, I would have stayed
in Minnesota's Like what are you talking about Kirk. They
weren't gonna pay you at Minnesota what Atlanta pays you.
You know, they just weren't. You know, It's like, yeah,
(39:40):
I totally would have stayed there, would you really? Again,
that's cow, that's fertilizer, That's what that is. Remember, he
essentially signed a two year deals four years, one eighty okay,
(40:01):
ninety million guaranteed at at signing. Minnesota wasn't giving you that, Like,
what are you even talking about? Yeah, hey, had I
known that they were gonna do that? Like I didn't.
I didn't know they were gonna do that. And again,
does it look great for Atlanta to draft a quarterback? Actually,
now it really does because Kirk Cousins, who apparently got
(40:26):
hit and you know, decided to play well hurt because
he knows that, you know, one of the one of
the biggest lies. There's lots of lies told in the NFL,
but the old you don't lose your job to injury,
Like what did true Bledsoell lose his job to injury?
Of course he did. Lots of guys have lost their
(40:46):
job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently took a hit
to his shoulder and didn't tell any you know now's
I didn't tell anybody that I was. I was hurt. Like, yeah,
you were playing, you're playing well, and then all of
a sudden your production fell off a cliff. He played
(41:07):
fourteen games. Let's not act like Atlanta did you wrong.
Oh man, Atlanta, they did me wrong. They gave you
fourteen games, and the last couple of which were bad.
You threw eighteen touchdowns and sixteen interceptions. Like, I can't
believe they drafted another quarterback. Why because you were coming
off of an achilles tendon tear and they gave you
(41:31):
ninety guaranteed so you're gonna get paid this year. They'll
probably trade you when somebody else's quarterback goes down, and
you'll get a chance because you'll get you know, nobody's
gonna pick up that option, and you'll get another contract
next year. I just don't lie to us and go like, hey,
(41:55):
if I knew that that Atlanta was gonna draft the quarterback,
I would have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't, because
they weren't gonna give you ninety million dollars. Stop lying, also,
NFL players, stop lying about we don't have guaranteed contricks.
You do, they're just not all fully guaranteed. And the
ones that are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you
want to read in the paper. I don't know, just
(42:20):
the manipulation or and and some of it is. Again,
this is how any athlete, Kirk Cousins can think that way,
because the whole world has done me wrong and I
proved them wrong time and again. Is how he's made it. Okay,
But again let's not kid ourselves. Okay, that he wasn't
(42:45):
staying in Minnesota, and he was coming off an Achilles
ten and tear. And if you think that Minnesota, where
he'd had sort of an up and down run there
ended on the up, he was playing really well in
that system. But if you think they were gonna him
a four year, two years of a guaranteed contract, and
oh yeah, by the way, when a guy stays, he
wants to get paid more, not less. There's no homegrown
(43:06):
discount in the NFL. I think Kirk Cousins is trying
to rewrite history and get a sympathetic year. And no
one's really sympathetic, not because we don't like him, just
because dude, you're still getting paid. You're going to get
another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell
us that Minnesota was going to keep you when they
didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year.
(43:29):
Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate
under the San Francisco model. As long as they can
get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible.
That's the San Francisco model.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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